Not according to Brand-X

Since last week Brand-X (NW-98) has had every brand of fish-farm denier on. No lie is too great for them. According to the so called liberals that phone in, 10's of thousands of jobs will be lost; whole native bands will die out; there is no problem with fish farming; there is no technology for closed-confinement fish farms!

We should boycott brand X!

Gordon Campbell and his gang of thugs are no more than a lawless bunch of (now even higher paid) carpet baggers, bent on enriching their political friends at the expense of everyone else.

God damn disgusting!

Yep: black is white!

Let us remember that Gordo spins the truth on practically every issue!

Once more let us recall that man before he does any more damage!

Wow, Ed...

Wow, Ed, your economics really fly in the face of the theories of conventional economists. Have you ever thought about getting a job teaching and researching at, say for example, the London School of Economics? Maybe they'll set up a campus on your ranch.

Tiny Targets

I'm not sure about this, but I think...

...should be 55 mm.

.55 mm would have the smolt smaller than the louse.

--Marc

Working Man

Conventional economics, particularly supply side economics, is a crock.

Ed is absolutely right. The fact the conventional economic model serves as a conduit for the enhancement of the rich, the degradation of the poor AND the ruination of the environment is just another proof of exactly the point Ed's trying to make.

If all the real costs of commercial and industrial processes were taken into account they would be far too costly to continue with them, let alone expand them. As Ed points out, the problem is that the future costs are never weighed into the bargain. Even though they will have to be paid eventually. Sadly, it will be the average worker who pays these costs and not the individuals who have benefited from the activities that created the problems.

China is a perfect example. Despite the intense urban growth and concentration of wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people - at the expense of both the atmosphere – the actual quality of life of a significant majority of Chinese peasants and workers is significantly poorer today than it was as little as 25 years ago.

Exactly the same thing that's happening here.

All of which to the benefit of a very small elite whose pile of wealth is growing by the hour.

May we hear your sources?

Dear Working Man; I must also agree with Mr Deak. I believe the basic economic principles he espouses here as Fiat Lux are quite well accepted ones.

I would be interested to hear you support your claim that they differ materially from principles in use all over the world.

I'm especially reminded of some of the thinking of Buckminster Fuller, whose restatement of economic axioms was so influential throughout the second half of the last century.

Clearly resources are finite, and resources dedicated to one use are unavailable for other uses. Do you doubt it?

Also, the concept of wealth creation is arguably suspect, given that all wealth derives from adding value to these finite resources. Which must be transferred around to be exploited. This seems quite conventional wisdom to me.

Please expand your objections to these arguments.

WM.........I'm Cambridge,

WM.........I'm Cambridge, albeit, thank godness, not in economics, so I have been able to maintain an open mind and see the glaring mistakes of all past and present theories. I'm also a skilled tradesman and builder, so I can apply trade logic to knock over academic bs.

Over the years I've received a good number of postings from students and even a few from teachers, who wrote that although they knew that what they had to write into their term papers and teach, was garbage, they had to do it to pass, or keep their jobs.

The same comments from scientists, who had to take some economics in their post graduate programs and laughed their heads off over the stupidity of the theories, but, again had to comply to get their degrees.

I started reading economics in 1982, at 55, which makes me 80 now, and managed to demolish the whole neoclassical theory in 3 years. It can be done on one typewritten page, but I may just sit down one day and expand it to 3.

What our universities are teaching as economics is a pile of bull poop, easily proven. Those who teach it should be in jail, those who absorb it are mentally damaged for life. And we can see it in our daily worsening climate, growth of poverty, worldwide starvation, huge inflation accounted as GDP, totally corrupt governments, etc. etc.

Ed Deak.

sickofrel a paid shill!

sickofrel a paid shill!

One typewritten page

Dear fiat lux;

I would like to read your one typewritten page sometime. It sounds very interesting.

The correct definition of economic efficiency

OK Bailey,

I'll forward the original text, as I wrote it 16 years ago, before bank deregulation, that made the system even more fraudulent and corrput.

I discovered in 1985 that the currently used, textbook definition of economic efficiency was an outright fraud and because it is the main pillar of the theory, I've spent 6 years, before fax and email, consulting with scientist friends around the world, to come up with the correct definition, which is unbreakable and cancels out the whole neoclassical theory.

It has been featured on many worldwide economic forums and used succcessfully in PhD dissertations.

As English was my 5th language, I asked a writer friend to go over it and make certain it can be understood by anyone with the intelligence level of a 10 year old.

I would write it a bit differently today and make it even more simple. The copyright was taken out only to establish the date and not for any financial interests.

Cheers, Ed Deak.
========================================

The correct definition of economic efficiency

A PRINCIPLE FOR THE APPLICATION OF PHYSICAL EFFICIENCY TO ECONOMICS.
By Ed Deak.

"THE REAL, OR PHYSICAL COSTS OF A PRODUCT, OR SERVICE ARE CONSTANT."
An efficient product contains physically efficient or ideal amounts of energy and matter, regardless of numerical or monetary considerations.
Monetary "cost efficiency" can not exist outside the concepts of physical efficiency and becomes cost transfer on other sectors. Therefore it is not efficiency but temporary convenience.

1. Everything and everybody on earth is bound by physical laws.
2. The science, planning and the acts of production are based on physical laws, therefore economic principles must also follow them.
3. "Matter and energy can not be destroyed, only transformed". Both began in and continue into eternity, therefore monetary costs are momentary "subtotals" in continuous columns, without the possibility of "bottom lines". Our environmental and human disasters are caused by arbitrarily located subtotals falsely used as bottom lines by special interests, leaving unaccounted liabilities.
4. Because of the eternal qualities of matter and energy, we don't know the cost of anything and ignorantly use subtotals, like the monetary costs of extraction, to create delusions of well being.
5. In physics "Efficiency is the most output for the least energy input".(Energy=matter). Economists conveniently substituted the word "money" for "energy", which permits the predetermination of equations and causes environmental and human destruction.
6. Measuring instruments and parameters must be permanently defined and of constant values, protected by agreements and laws.
7. Monetary value can not be permanently defined. Money is a speculative commodity under special interest control, an asset to the holder and liability to the issuer. It is infinitely and unpredictably variable, with corrupted conversions. Therefore it's use as economic measure is contradictory, unscientific, immoral and illegal.

Continued The correct definition of economic efficieny

8. The premise that huge production runs etc. are "cost efficient" is false, because it refers only to perceptions of temporary monetary benefits to special sectors, while transferring real and monetary costs on others through erroneous, or fraudulent accounting.
9. In physics "Mass increases with speed", e.g. to double the speed of a boat,the energy input may have to be squared. The speedup of production also uses inefficient inputs of capital, energy/matter and creates cost transfers on the environment and humanity.
10."For every action there's an equal reaction". Overcapitalized massproduction creates temporary benefits to a few with the distribution of research, development & administration costs, but multiplies transferred costs in inefficient, forced urbanization, pollution, enslavement, health & mental problems, violence, crime, stress, time & capital waste from commuting, taxation, etc. ad infinitum.
11.The "Gross Domestic Product" and "Productivity" are false concepts to permit the accounting of liabilities as assets.
12.Our economic systems are based on the misuse of words, concepts, mathematics and accounting. No sane person wishes to go back to primitivism or musclepower, but there must be new, democratically controlled determination of when, how far and for whose benefit convenience may, or must overrule the concepts of true efficiency within the recovery capacity of the environment and humanity.

Copyright 1991 by Ed Deak, Box 9, Big Lake Ranch PO. BC. VOL 1GO, Canada. Phone:(250) 243-2263, Email:

#

Fish Oil

Maybe we could create an industry that would save the thousands of jobs that will be eliminated by following the recommendations of this committee.
Burn the farmed Salmon, like the subsidized vegetable burning industry, Ethanol.
Maybe we could continue to farm the Salmon as we are know, then render them down to the oil they contain, and sell the oil to Translink. or BC Transit in Victoria.
That way we could maintain the economic benefits, but now have the taxpayer responsible for the costs.
How about a little creative thinking on this matter.
Who needs food anyway? When we have hot air to live on.

Put sockeye wearing lice on a truck?

I offer my services to any fish farm operators who want to put their fish in my truck.
Where do you want me to truck them to?
I can come to Kamloops if required.
I can also cool the river too skummek.
I am not afraid to follow fish either.
We don't want cigarette burns on our salmon, I agree. Perhaps we should wrap them all up in asbestos shields.

Let them eat toxic cake

IAMC wrote:

Isn't that exactly the philosophy behind the all just "hot air" environmental policies of the Gordon Campbell government - as this article clearly reveals?

(eg. Gordo's crew unenlightened and arrogant fish farms policies that are devastating the survival rate of a wonderful species and a real food source - The Pacific Salmon.

....not to mention how the Fiberals' ruthless policy of "who needs food anyway when you can turn it into paved real estate?" is threatening the survival rate of our crucially-needed Agricultural Land Reserves.)

Thank God the ALR is land bound

I think the 12 mile limit should occur inland, so International Law goes right through the CRD,ALR,GVRD.
There should always be a place free from this endless dribble from those simply opposed to everything, period.

Not opposed to wild salmon....or food from the farmer's market

IAMC, sometimes your comments are so silly they are almost charming.

Something fishy

about the push for open net fish farms. Do in the wild fish so the folks that now have open season on the rivers can dam them for power. Why else? It is who stands to make the money stupid. ( A play on the trite 'it's the economy ....etc.) Follow the money and who makes the donations for favours. (And they have no shame either.) The present bunch in power in Victoria give a new meaning to the words 'Greed' and 'Avarice'.

Burgess that's putting it

Burgess that's putting it mildly about this corrupt, criminal bunch of fascists "TILMA" in power!
TILMA will be able to litigate any attempt to slow or stop the fish farm's impairment to profit no matter how damaging it is to the Pacific wild salmon or the environment!
I'd go as far as saying they are traitors to the people of BC (TILMA) and Canada for giving OUR Provinces (and countries taxes and cheap power) future life blood, OUR Publicly OWNED Corporations bought and paid for by US and OUR father’s, grandfather’s, hard earned money and then given away to foreign corrupt corporations during a time WE are at war for OUR sovereignty, as a Nation!
If these aren’t treasonous acts then what consitutes acts of treason?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Campbell

The Fix was In

It was obvious when the Liberals appointed an NDP dominated committee on fish farms as to what the outcome would be.

The NDP dominated committee failed miserably to strike any sort of balance. It is obvious that the committee majority only considered the views of environmentalists.

The NDP, if this report is any indication, are not ready to govern the province. If they are to be successful politically, they need to stop pandering to narrow special interests and be more balanced in their approach.

x4estworker

Pardon me, but who exactly is in power in this province and has been for the last 6 years? Unlike in the legislature, you can't get away with that sort of comment in a forum where there is 'some' freedom of speech.

The fisheries crisis can't be solved by a balanced approach – it has gone way too far for that now: as the science - world wide science - shows. I’m surprised our foreign trade partners still accept the 60 – 70% of farmed salmon that’s exported. No one with any respect for their health should eat the stuff, as a study done by the New York Times a couple of years ago showed – it is full of poisons.

As to pandering, it isn't even credible to suggest the opposition has enough clout to pander to anyone.

That is, and has been, the precise thing that's wrong with this blind business- buttressed and financed bunch of BC Liberals my friend. Nothing 'balanced' about it. Campbell wouldn't have been elected in 05 without the business backing of his friends on Howe Street and at CanWest.

It has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with pandering. You've got the prescription right; you're just administering it to the wrong patient.

Fish farms = no benefit to

Fish farms = no benefit to BC except the pollution and a few low paying jobs the real profit goes to the Danish Gov. who are laughing all the way to their bank!
CanWest papers Province page A16 BC Rail(snip) and nothing on Glo-bull TV, CTV or OUR CBC (I emailed CBC about my utter disgust for their silence on this Huge treasonous scandal involving traitors to Canada in the BC Liberal and including the Federal Liberal Parties!) WE taxpaying Canadians pay their salaries! BCTV and CTV headline news tonight Black bears in back yards, huh what the hell non-news?
I'm so disgusted I turned it off and thinking seriously of canceling my Shaw cable! Too many reality, AFV, American Idol, Cops, Bachelor, etc all done on the cheap BS
Television could have been a great medium for the masses, (Some Documentaries are great on PBS) but no, Corporate Greed instead, as always...