The Liberal hypocrisy astounds!

The NDP having voted against the package could now take the money on the basis that they should not be expected to work for less than the liberals most of who don't do much and get their direction from the government whip on how to vote. That also applies to the opposition but the argument would still be, why should the NDP MLA's work for less. Had the NDP at least raised some objection to the appointments to the commission at the beginning, it would have left them on "the high ground. As it is they will all be tainted and the liberals will likely survive better as most of their supporters are only concerned about hos the economy will benefit them and as long as the commodity prices are strong the Liberals will be forgiven any indiscretion no matter how serious.

The hypocrisy of it astounds me. Here we have the same group who railed against gold-plated pensions", forced its repeal, made it an election issue in 1996 even after it was gone and had every liberal candidate sign a pledge that they would not accept the pension and would repeal it as soon as they were in power. They now reinstate the deal AND allow themselves pension credit but denied the same credit to all those eligible for the same credit and who left office in 2001. It absolutely astounds.

If I had any advice to the those who Campbell has tried to paint into a corner. It would be this. You will not get any credit for deciding to work work for less. You will not get any political credit for rejecting a pension while the Liberal all take theirs. Whatever credit will be short-lived but the years that you are at a financial disadvantage compare to the liberals will be decades.

And for what its worth will any of you get my vote in the future? Not very bloody likely!

greed begets greed

no surprise that the liberals want this huge windfall. If I was in their shoes, I probably would do the same thing. Afterall, its the taxpayers who are footing the bill. As an MLA, why would I care if the taxpayer will be paying my luxurious pension plan!

While I have emailed every single MLA daily this week, I am sure they have not read them, and if they did, threw it immediately into the trash bin. It is a sad day when MLA's talk the talk, like Campbell did in 1996 when he said,

“This bill challenges all MLAs in this house to cut the strings of their million-dollar pensions and to accept the same standards that other British Columbians have to accept in their lives,” Campbell told the house on July 5, 1995. “In order for us to change the public image of MLAs as self-serving, it’s going to require MLAs to stop being self-serving.

Continued the non-self-serving Campbell: “We cannot ask others to tighten their belts if we’re not willing to tighten our own.”

but when it comes down to actually walking the talk, their greed prevails at the end of the day.

Scheck is Right On

... and the Pigs line up at the trough to eat steak with the best wine and all the trappings ....

Both the NDP and the Liberals are pure artists of thievery!

We need a new centralist political party in BC.

The Meat of the Issue

It really doesn't matter who gets what or who doesn't get what. The only reasons put forward to date have been:

1] they deserve a raise because that's how the best people are attracted to the thankless position;
and
2] they deserve a raise because they get picked on and yelled at all the time.
To address the first, it implies that we do not have the best people for the job at the moment because they are working for less than their worth. Also, if they are doing a superlative job at present, then they must be satisfied with the wage they are getting, so why increase the remuneration if they are doing a great job for the money they get?
Also, the comment implies that British Columbians, who are restricted in both private and public sectors to single digit increases, are lazy sots who don't rate any more, in comparison to the 50% increase the politicos think they themselves are worth. How many BC'ers, given the chance to measure their own worth and determine their own raises, would not take a 50% increase -- then continue to put out the same "production" they've been doing all along?

To address the second, I am self-employed, and if I don't do a satisfactory job, not only do I get yelled at, I also don't get paid. Ergo, I do good work, for which not only am I paid, but am as close to being guaranteed future employment as I can expect to be. Whether or not I can give myself a pension is entirely dependant on what I can set aside, but with absolutely no guarantees it will be there when retirement approaches. (Anyone remember Confederation Life?) Yet I cannot willy nilly vote myself a 50% raise, without seriously risking what security of employment I do have.
So I would suggest that the politicos who think they are worth it be required to put their proposition before the voting public before being generous to themselves. If they'd done good work, I am sure the general public would reward them by letting them continue to do so (and might even throw in a few buck besides, providing the percentages are a reflection of the working population of this province.

'We need a new centralist

'We need a new centralist political party in BC'. we already have one sdgreen. they're called the bc liberals. unless you sincerely believe that wally oppal, carole taylor, lorne mayencourt and others are right-wingers. not a chance. this is a centre as you're ever going to get.

Open Your Eyes and Get Real

If anyone thinks $98,000 is an outrageous salary these days they just pegged themselves as one of the working poor.
MLAs deserve to make at least as much as middle managers, and this fooferall only serves to convince me that the provincial NDP is completely out of touch and unable to deliver to anyone but DERA.
Yet the fact they will accept the pension and kept their mouths shut that donating the raise to charity will actually earn them a partial refund proves that they ARE learning...

Thanks Herbie

Absolutely right on, Herbie. Let's get real. The men and women who represent us in office absolutely must be paid in amounts commensurate with the private sector, otherwise only losers and incompetents would run for office. After all, nobody does anything except for money. Let's get real.

The power and status that go along with elected office mean nothing to those who serve the public. Even the desire to do public good- that's just window dressing. They're in it for the money, just like everyone else. If you deny it, you're kidding yourself. Let's get real.

And of course elected officials only make their government salary. They have absolutely no other means of income; no investments or the like, And they NEVER use their positions to line their own pockets. Let's get real.

And the public sector workers who teach our kids and care for the sick: obvious losers. They certainly don't deserve a raise. And if they did, how would you measure it? Almost all education and health care is public. Can't give folks a raise commensurate with the private sector when there is no real private sector. Let's get real.

The hundreds of thousands of people in BC who don't make anything near 98 grand? More losers. If they were any good, they would certainly make the far from outrageous salary our hard working public servants deserve. Let's get real.

Only one problem with this: the reality of it all make me sick.

Worth repeating

" It is a sad day when MLA's talk the talk, like Campbell did in 1996 when he said,

“This bill challenges all MLAs in this house to cut the strings of their million-dollar pensions and to accept the same standards that other British Columbians have to accept in their lives,” Campbell told the house on July 5, 1995. “In order for us to change the public image of MLAs as self-serving, it’s going to require MLAs to stop being self-serving.

Continued the non-self-serving Campbell: “We cannot ask others to tighten their belts if we’re not willing to tighten our own.”

I had forgotten the exact comment. The hypocrisy keeps astounding as does spin from the canwest media apologists.

Determining MLA salaries

Why not have MLA saleries and pensions pegged to the median average salary and pension in BC? That way it would be in their interest to look after the citizens they are supposed to serve.
Large salaries attract those for whom money is a prime value in life. People whose chief value is money certainly do not make the best public servants!

The Opposition

The Opposition should have voted NO and opted out completely - keeping just the salary and pension they knew they were entitled to when they ran for election in 2005.

Nevertheless, the debate on Bill 37 made for an interesting afternoon in the Legislature. Moreover, this arrogant effort by Premier Campbell to provide himself with a golden parachute is going to be the BC Liberals’ albatross, in my view.

Whether or not they win the next election, this government will go down in history as the worst provincial administration in 100 years - including even the Bennett/Bonner/Sommers government.

As a clear illustration of what CEO Campbell has been up to since 2001 and a demonstration of the contempt he holds for the vast majority of British Columbians - on the one hand - and his commitment to keeping promises to no one outside of his small circle of friends and OIC appointments on the other, it was a real revelation.

Anyone who cares about the future of this Province should take some free time this long weekend and read the record in Hansard.

You can find it here:http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansard/38th3rd/H70517a.htm
(morning)
and here:
http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansard/38th3rd/H70517p.htm
(afternoon)

The truly sad fact is that the MSM are ignoring the disconnect between the 'sacrifices' Campbell and his acolytes say they've made as your government the real sacrifices the people of this province have had to make to accommodate their monomania and greed, and perhaps their collusion and participation in outright criminality.

Campbell should resign.

Morning link should be:

http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansard/38th3rd/H70517a.htm

Herbie

When fully 25% of working British Columbians make less than the raise MLAs are giving themselves, then it is outrageous, because it shows that our political leadership is just not doing the quality work it boasts that it IS doing......

I myself don't much care what people in the public sector make, as long as they can demonstrate what they have done for it. "I tried" just doesn't cut it. Do the job or get out. 24% of Brithish Columbians making less than $22K a year amply demonstrates that our political leadership IS NOT doing the job.

Getting real

“After all, nobody does anything except for money. Let's get real.”

Famous! So, why did our ancestors ‘do anything’, before money were invented?

We do what we need to do in order to survive. And then we do a little extra in order to put some décor into our lives. The Magdalenien hunters carved their spear-throwers with beatifully sculptured heads, and the Afghans of today still embroider their grainsacks.

Money now, it arises out of the desire to ‘raise oneself’ over and above the life situation, where one must prove oneself every day, as in you’re only as good as the outcome of your latest hunt. Enough money can take you out of that precarious situation and put you, where you can have idle time and ‘bad days’, and write them out of the immediate competititon.

Ideally, money represents ‘saved up work’. However, today the money situation has become completely suffocated by cheap and dirty tips and tricks, where some start out using other people’s money, invest it, walk away with a profit of their own and leave all other parties to the deal short the amount of their profit, or worse. No real work involved, just shuffling money around, which can even be just paper without foundation in any real tangible commodity. This is supposed to be OK, because the profitmaker has thereby shown, that he has ‘the best head’, and so he is ‘creating wealth’, or ‘keeping the economy going’. I cannot see any difference between that kind of activity and that of the starlings who steal cherries from the tree I have planted and nurtured.

“Nobody does anything except for money” is a cherished paradigm of our time. But there is a parallel universe, my friend, where people do things for all sorts of other reasons. It is all around you, as well as right under your nose. The day you start looking for that in earnest, and recognizes its existence, is the day you start getting real.

Nobody pays me a penny to write this letter. I would be interested in knowing, why you think I do it, you who think we do things only for money.

Recall Gordon Campbell !

There are many quotes where Gordo opposed any pension plan; I even heard one where he swore he would resign before he would accept such a gold-plated pension scheme!

Seeing where he is now voting for exactly such a scheme he has violated the trust voters put in him, and a recall campaign is justified!

What are we waiting for?

Are we waiting for him to once again cut salaries by up to 15% for workers perhaps?

Are we waiting for him to break a few more binding contracts?

Or are we waitning for him to sell off the rest of BC to his friends ?

Recall that scoundrel before he does any more harm!

Sound and fury signifying

Sound and fury signifying nothing folks.

They get to decide what cash and benefits they want, then talk about how wrong it is and by gosh ,then they and only they get to vote that's it's right and proper.

When my Canada and OAP pension are increased at maybe one percent or so year I will be able to say. My gosh politicians have my best interest at heart.No other choice as I don't get to decide

The way to get ahead in politics is to be self rightous, I'd never to that( whatever the subject) Vote for me for better representation. I will work day and night to beter things for you. Get elected and a 180 degree change in attitude works quite well. WE can all recall what Gordon said in opposition. a lot of suckers beleived him. Then the cuts began , and some were pretty tough/ Oh we have a structurak deficit( BS, he had a surplus but folks believe anything Voters are pretty dumb . Who was it that said. Don't vote for any of them as it just encourages them? Life goes on. They feather their collecive nests and we get little. Creative writing and stand up comics is part of the rediness program to be a MLA

I agree! We have got to take

I agree! We have got to take this bunch of greedy, treasonous cowards out of power by "Recall" The fiberal MLA's don't have the collective fortitude to say no to their fascist boss. They would rather see this once great prosperous province "OUR" BC sold out to foreign owned Corporations for what? I still say his actions are treading on treasonous territory!
I receive the great amount of $878.06 a month for my Disability Pension, in Dec 20, 06 my CDP was $860. so I received "Now hold on folks" a whopping raise of $18.06 (minus $6.02 rent increase = $12.04 = $3. a week) a month for a total of $216 a year minus $72.12 or 1/3 for rent leaves me with a grand total for the year of $10,320.72!
Plus I'm paying more and more for meds no longer covered by Health Care.

I also worked 22yrs and some

I also worked 22yrs and some jobs I paid more than $800 a month in taxes like the 1st Mica Dam 7/12 hr shifts = dbl time $25.60 an hour but I worked my butt off for that and my family suffered because I was away for 2 weeks at a time. I bought a house just out of Hope 2brm full bsm 1060 sq ft on a 72' by 215' lot for $28,000 with $3,000. down at 11 1/4% interest in the 70's.
That was a time when everyone could dream and plan to own their own "HOUSE" not a 500 sq ft box at $500,000+ noose for life. Question how many foreclosers are happening right now?
So if we want to be able to have a REAL life again then we have to show these criminals the door and follow their money trail and bring these greedy corporations to ground check www.killercoke.com.

Herbie and Bloodnok

Are you for real??????

After 6 years in office they deserve a pension equal to a better-than-average wage?

There is no mention of rescinding the generous RRSP allowance for these people.. or did I miss something?

Campbell is a hypocrite!

Wasn't it Campbell who argued that being an MLA shouldn't be a career, but a term of service? Wasn't it Campbell who ridiculed past MLAs like Jack Weisberger for their million dollar pensions? He uses MLA pensions as a way of defining how he's different and now this? Who cares how much Carol James and the NDP have bungled this issue in the news. The fact of the matter is that he and his party are going to vote for this obscene pension. I feel that the salary may be justified (as long as they don't cancel anymore fall sittings of the legislature), but accepting this pension makes him a hypocrite. He has definitely become what he so eloquently proclaimed he hated. Any respect I still had for him is now gone.

The price of loyalty

It's just one way to quieten any rumblings from the "fenceposts with hair"in the backbenches. Bribe them with taxpayer dollars. Gives them added incentive to work harder to get re-elected.
I've developed a philosophy of life to expect duplicity from politicians. They have come through.
Could be that most of them will quit for a rich pension and make room for better qualified fenceposts.

Virtual Dictatorship

Everyone should be aware that any majority government is a virtual dictatorship for up to five years (in BC, 4 years - thanks to the current Liberal government). There is no reason to think that anything will change that. So those who favour majority governments "because things get done" then, can really only expect government by fiat, with a veneer of democracy. The only requirement politicos demand of the voting population is to stir itself (however sluggishly) and make some marks on paper, then go back to sleep (a function we fulfill admirably), forums such as Tyee notwithstanding. But majority governments can (and do) ignore the peripheries, currying favour (or bribing) the major media to present them in a "deserving" light. This is much easier for the right to do than the left, since news media has been put on the block, like any other business (and, like any other business, the major function is to boost share prices on the stock exchange - the goods and servies aspect are always a distant 2nd).

That the Liberals have decided on giving themselves a raise at the half-way mark is no accident. The electorate is asleep - much like Rip van Winkle - and won't wake up for another two years. That there is virtually no trumpeting of Liberal transgressions in the media is also calculated (don't stir the ire of the voting public).

We the voters should expect nothing more than this.

MLA compensation

One cannot argue that the NDP has handled this issue badly. They wanted the money as much as the Liberals. However, does anyone know if Gordon Campbell or any other members of the Liberal caucus receive allowances from the Liberal Party to enable them to maintain their customary life style? I suspect that the Premier at least is compensated, much as Preston Manning was when he was the Reform Leader. If I am right, then the taxpayers are relieving the Liberal Party of a financial burden.

Visible Justice

Our MLAs worked only 3 months in the past 12. Constituency office staff do most of the work, while MLAs are usually employed in family businesses or feet up consultation enterprises. It is the worst scam going.

What about the NDP? The right wing - Leonard Krog, Jenny Kwan, Mike Farnworth, etc - of the party, are decidedly silent on the issue. Office staff of my MLA, Jenny Kwan, were derisive when I asked them for Kwan's position. Then again, that cop friendly Criminologist, once worked off season for the reactionary Vancouver Agreement group. Silence speaks.

After May 31, you can expect to see that overpaid class, next February. Meanwhile, if you want to find them, look for them at their day jobs.

Re: $$$

Clementin's comment was right on:

"People whose chief value is money certainly do not make the best public servants!"

There are at least two problems.

1. The voters are sleeping.

2. The media are in cahoots with Campbell.

We are in VERY VERY bad shape.

We need a hero. And as of yet I don't see one on the horizon.

Which leaves....? Anarchy?

Good God people, where is the scream??????

Her Majesty's loyal

Her Majesty's loyal opposition needs a reality check, an actual leader, and some balls.

For the work required, MLA's are underpaid and deserve a raise. And, as this is an uncertain line of work and most of these folks would be well protected in the private sector, I believe that the pension is necessary to allow the MLA's to protect their families because of the short-term nature of the employment. An MLA's family already pays a huge price to support someone in this line of work. The pension is required to make up some of that family cost. That is reality folks.

That the leader of the opposition lacks the internal fortitude to tell the truth about the compensation package and by spinning this ludicrous 'donation with pension' policy, demonstrates unfitness for the job.

Not to mention that the opposition has lost the chance to fully use the hypocritical flip flop of the Campbull lieberals. Even the corporate media was picking up on the lieberals hypocrisy. But, the leader of her Majesty's loyal opposition has managed to give the media an opportunity to tar the opposition with the same brush and make the issue all politicians, not just the lieberals. Nice work by the leader of her Majesty's loyal opposition. Campbull doesn't need spin doctors with the this level of incompentence.

We don't need a left or right wing party little elliot, we need honesty and transparency.

MP vs MLA and what am I missing ?

What I don’t get is that an MLA seems to me every bit as demanding a job as being an MP. And yet even a backbench MP makes twice as much money as an MLA does. Even if the pay raise is passed an MP still will make a third more money.

Despite these facts 100% of the public outcry is over MLA salary and nobody is saying anything about the pay and pension of an MP.

So either we think an MP is worth twice what an MLA is or ????? Am I the only person who thinks it is odd to target MLA pay and pension but seemingly ignore an MP pay and pension? Should there not be some comparison between the two jobs or am I competently out to lunch ?

It just seems odd to me to make such a big deal about the one pay and pension package but completely ignore the other when it is vastly superior for apparently similar work.

Federal vs Provincial

Federal MPs are in session in Parliament a minimum of 3 times as many days per year when compared to provincial ones. There are, furthermore, a great many more issues of Federal Jurisdiction - such as international trade, defence and foreign affairs which have no counterpart in the provincial legislature.
That said, Federal MPs are grossly overpaid as well. Have a quick look at the way former Prime Ministers and their inner cabinet ministers find themselves in corporate sinecures a few months after they resign or are defeated in order to determine whether or not one ought to lose sleep about such folks when they are no longer MPs.
The whole argument is fallacious.
The idea that paying high salaries will generate better quality folks has absolutely no empirical evidence to support it. In fact, in business the evidence is the opposite. The more a corporate entity makes the greater the chance of it engaging in theft and illegality.
I won't bother to list more than a few examples:
Microsoft, Global Crossing, Enron, Arthur Anderson, Adelphi, Archer Daniels Midland...the list goes on and on.
Historically, our greatest, most dedicated and valuable public servants are almost always the least well remunerated. That's why it's called PUBLIC SERVICE.
No one should ever get into it for the money and anyone who does ought to be suspect from the get go. That said, anyone who has lived more than a few weeks in Ottawa will know that being there, in and of itself, is a distinct sacrifice. I write from experience having endured several years in the nation’s capital. There is one decent season in the place – a few days to, at best, three or four weeks of fall. The rest of the time, living in Ottawa is almost punishment enough for being an elected member of Parliament.
My view.

Pay Raises

It is not that I do not think MLAs deserve a raise. They might even deserve what they are getting. My objection is there are many others deserve a raise to and did not get it.
If the economy of the province is so bad HEU had to take wage cuts then small raises then the MLAs should carry that burden to. It is not a burden for one sector of society only to carry.
If you have to pay the best to get the best then guess what people in health care you do not have the best. BC will not attract the best. We both know that is wrong though. Those of us working in health care do the best we can with the conditions dealt us to work in.
Gordon in on record as rejecting pensions when he was in opposition. Funny how power has corrupted him.

Very well said, tricia58

Quote:

"If the economy of the province is so bad HEU had to take wage cuts then small raises then the MLAs should carry that burden to. It is not a burden for one sector of society only to carry."

Very well said, tricia58....that is the real hypocrisy lurking at the center of this pay raise issue.

about wage cuts v/s the MLA 's new salary

Let us not forget that the cut in wages for HEU was done by scrapping a signed, binding contract!
Maybe we should scrap our contract with Gordo and his band of thieves!

voting for your own raise

The whole stinking mess would reek a lot less if they had a caveat that said the raises wouldn't take effect until after the next election.

skumeek

I ve always felt the elected ones should have means test if they needed a pension from their public service. It is after all taxpayers money

Wallace!!

I am self-employed (and uncertain line of work), and am NOT "protected in the private sector", except for what I can provide for myself. The very people you are leading the cheers for have actually stated (when in opposition!) that political office is NOT a career, and shouldn't be treated as such. Yet here they are (now the government) doing the very things they swore they wouldn't do (when not in government).

Now, considering that I work about 60 hours a week and net about $35,000/yr., I would say I am definitely "underpaid and deserve a raise". So why are MLAs entitled to "protect their families" and I am not? After all, like myself, they didn't have to take the job.

As was mentioned a little ways above, vote yourself all the money you want -- but make it an election issue. It's the democratic way. But then, this "open and accesible government" sure likes those closed doors............

Hey switek.

I may also be that the MP's are farther away and conduct there business in a space where it is almost irrelevant to the average person's life. MLA's are nearer and their decisions - at least the government members - effect citizens in some pretty dramatic ways. MP's also sit far more often and most travel farther as has been stated. What I think offends most people is the combination of benefits and pension. Imagine that campbell can retire tomorrow with a pension of $75,000 a year and if he wins another term it will be more than $100,000 a year. It is obscene that someone who has created so much misery gets to retire in luxury paid by the same people he abused and scammed.