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Afraid to Raise Minimum Wage?
We shouldn't be. Research proves it.
Job loss fears unfounded.
Some things are as reliable as Pavlov's dog. The NDP issued a news release calling for the minimum wage to be increased to $10 an hour and the salivating dogs, in this case the BC Chamber of Commerce and Retail BC, promptly countered with criticism of the idea.
Retail BC argued that most businesses already pay more than the minimum wage. By contrast, the Chamber's release argued that an increase would impose an increase in "labour costs of over $450 million" on small businesses. According to their release, John Winter, president and CEO of the BC Chamber of Commerce, said:
"Employers recognize that the minimum wage is only a basis for an individual to enter the workforce, the fact is that less than two per cent of individuals who have been in a job for more than five years are still paid minimum wage. While many think of workers on minimum wage as the 'working poor' this image is far from reality. Close to three-quarters of those earning minimum wage are either part of a couple with a partner earning more than the minimum wage, or are young people and students still living at home."
It's been a long time since someone in a leadership position openly justified lower wages on the basis that the income is secondary to that of the main breadwinner, although it is common to hear the argument that it's acceptable to underpay students (while raising their tuition).
Thousands would benefit
Statistics Canada doesn't appear to publish any data that would support Winter's claim about minimum wages and the length of time in a job, but its Labour Force Historical Review contains frequency distributions of wages by age, sex, occupation and industry for the period 1997 through 2006. In 2006, 24,500 people in B.C. made less than $8 an hour and another 221,200 made between $8 and $9.99. Women over age 25 made up 7,500 of the workers making less than $8.00 an hour, and 66,500 of the workers making between $8 and $9.99. A full-time worker, working about 2,000 hours a year at $8 an hour, makes $16,000 before taxes.
Statistics published by Revenue Canada indicate that in 2004 (the most recent year available) there were 113,490 women between the ages of 25 and 54 with incomes between $10,000 and $20,000, averaging $15,129.
That includes thousands of victims of the low minimum wage, many of whom are single parents. The National Council of Welfare has found that one-quarter of poor families has a major income earner who worked full-time for a full year.
Hasn't hurt economy
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, ACORN, supports campaigns to raise the minimum wage throughout the U.S. It recently had successful campaigns to raise the minimum wages in Arizona, Colorado, Missouri, and Ohio.
In the United States, cities can also set minimum wages that apply to all businesses in their jurisdiction, not just those servicing the municipality. The minimum wage in San Francisco is increased annually as it is indexed to the cost of living; since January 1, 2007, it is $9.14 per hour.
In Canada we don't have the referendum tools that have been used in the U.S. to force politicians to raise minimum wages and Canadian cities don't have the legal authority to set minimum wages; campaigns here have to concentrate on pressuring provincial governments to raise and index the minimum wage.
Economists David Card and Alan B. Krueger's 1994 study, published in the American Economic Review, compared 410 fast-food restaurants in New Jersey and eastern Pennsylvania before and after the 1992 increase in New Jersey's minimum wage. They found no indication that the increase in the minimum wage reduced employment. That research is expanded on in Myth and Measurement: The New Economics of the Minimum Wage, published in 1997 by Princeton University Press. In 1998 the National Bureau of Economic Research published their further work on the 1992 New Jersey increase in the minimum wage, which found "similar or slightly faster employment growth in New Jersey relative to eastern Pennsylvania after the rise in New Jersey's minimum wage."
Of course, right wing opponents of living wages don't want to let the evidence get in the way of dogma about minimum wages.
Related Tyee stories
- Seven Solutions to Homelessness
Each is working somewhere else, and will save money and lives here. - Poverty Amidst Plenty
We can brighten the dark side to BC's economy. - How BC's Government Failed the Working Poor
Tax changes left behind the 721,000 paid less than $16 an hour.
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- From Financial Advisor to Occupier
- Seven Goals to Build the Conservative 'Dream'
56
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bpither1
5 years ago
I lived in Denmark for many
I lived in Denmark for many years and the minimum wage as negotiated between the unions, which represent over 80% of all working people, and the employers federation is around US$12 an hour! The economy is booming and unemployment low which certainly puts the boot to any supposition that the minimum wage is bad for business. Some do complain but Danes and Scandinavians in general find this acceptable since most view poverty as an unacceptable face of society. Already I can hear the critics on this site respond with "those high taxes" or " a high suicide rate" which is about the only news you hear about other than "the end of the Swedish model" when as with any Capitalist country - and they are very much so - there is a periodic crisis. But when things look this good as per high income, low unemployment, extremely low rates of child poverty and homelessness then where are the "talking heads" who have never lived there nor studied the system? Surprisingly it is very easy to hire and fire workers in Denmark and fully 20% of the working population change their jobs yearly without an appreciable loss of income because "those high taxes" come back to you as income support while looking for a job - and thats pegged at 90% of your previous wages. A firm has the flexibility to respond to market conditions
by immediately cutting labour costs with the tacit approval of the union. There are few multinational firms and most of the economy is organized around small businesses with high wages and because of this system known as flexicurity there is little or no discussion of the benefits or disadvantages of "raising the minimum wage". The negotiated amount between equal partners in the labour market (unions and employers) is not a mandated government imposed minimum but an industry standard. It's a different mindset and unfortunately remote to the people in this country.
murdock
5 years ago
the real place to go to work
Sounds like Schreck already knows what needs doing, just not interested in doing it.
Get power away from the 'term' dictatorships we elect, referenda are a good start.
Stop bitching about little items that can all be solved thru this mechanism.
Push for BC-STV on the next ballot and include such referenda in every municipal ballot!
The other issues (minimum wage being one of them) will get solved once 'the people' get back the power.
The reality is that all of the mainstrem parties want that shot at the brass ring of absolute POWER, even if it is only for a single 'term'. None of them really want substantive changes to their control over the levers of POWER once they have them.
clo3
5 years ago
Higher wage for adults!
As well as this may work in Denmark, I’m not sure that all unions and employers in Canada could be that reasonable with each other. It seems to me that many unions still think that their interests are opposite of the employers’ interests and many employers still think the best business practice is to give as little to staff as possible. I think we are stuck with the government setting minimum wage for a while.
What shocks me about the minimum wage statistics here is that employers can actually keep their staff while only paying $8/hour. I would’ve thought with the labour shortage, no one would work for that. Hopefully the government realizes how impossible it is for someone to live of that small a wage (even $10/hour makes it hard to get by), and raises it! Maybe they should consider an age-specific wage, so people under 17 or 18 have a lower minimum wage than adults. That way, businesses wouldn’t have to pay high school students (who presumably are living at home and have no expenses) the same as financially independent adults.
G West
5 years ago
for your information murdock
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
Gives all the information needed to decide whether or not anyone needs look to the US for 'leadership' in the area of minimum wages.
alive
5 years ago
Not just $10 an hour!
bpither1
Thanks for bringing us up to date on how the Scandinavians tackle the economy!
I have relatives there and they areconstantly baffled at the conditons in this country: here we are a rich country yet we have so many more really poor people.
My relatives wondered for instance why I had to pay for my hearing aids? they are used to the idea that anything you need is available and free!
Sure they pay high taxes, but the benefits are there too!
So it is not just about a mimimum wage, but about recognizing that every individual is entitled to a decent life!
What a concept?
flattax
5 years ago
Minimum wage reduces employment
Let the markets set the wages, not the government.
If we want more employment in the economy, we should eliminate the minimum wage. Most people working for minimum wage are kids who live at home.
Increasing the min wage would result in less employment and decimate smaller mom and pop businesses. It would actually help large corporations, since they have economies of scale and can be run more efficiently with less people.
So if you want to close of the corner coffeeshop and have them replaced with Starbucks, or close the corner photocopy shop and have it replaced with kinkos then up the minimum wage.
An age specific wage would just have older wrokers laid off in preference of older workers.
Degegulation of all worker rights is the best way to increase employment and general welfare.
Come on people, buck up! We don't have kids in coal mines anymore.
Booker
5 years ago
Wages
I think we should give all the money to CEOs, because they're Gods I tellya, Gods! Greed is good and sharing sucks and and there is no such thing as society, just the market.
Well why the hell not! Lazy good-fer-nuthins.
;-P
DJT
5 years ago
Please, Sir, I want some more
Politicians are puppets, particularly in this province. As long as big can donate to the coffers of political parties, nothing will change, plain and simple. (Personally I think all financial donations should be required to be anonymous- we'll see how altruistic the business folks are).
PS: 12 year old kids would be working in coal mines if Campbell could get away with it.
DJT
5 years ago
oops
The above should read " as long as business can donate to the coffers....."
DPL
5 years ago
David as usual has the facts
David as usual has the facts and figures yet some folks prefer not to read them.
The business guys and gals , when a arctilce about increased wages come sup does theri usual "The sky is falling" as the raise their prices one more time. Usually excuse is "It costs us more to provide the stuff you want to buy" Those who want to buy the stuff are folks trying to make enough money to have a place to live, decent food and then buy the stuff the companies are flogging. Just got some stuff deliverd fro up ilsnad. The bill included a fuel surcharge, beside the usual taxes and the cost of hauling it down here. If I was operating at minimum wage, that company would not have got the chance to sell us the items.
dr evil
5 years ago
Coke
The Ruling Class confesses
Things go better with Coke?
"the most beautiful sight that we see is the child at labor; as early as he may get at labor, the most beautiful, the most useful does his life get to be."
--Asa Candler, founder of Coca-cola company (cited in *Capital Crimes* by George Winslow p117)
Skywalker
5 years ago
Where is the minimum wage spent?
So tell me where does a person making minimum wage spend 100% of their income? Certainly not in Maui. Probably right in the very community in which they live and on all the essentials. Probably not on frills or gas or expensive toys... Could that be the problem for Campbell and the BC Chamber of Commerce...not enough finding its way into the hands of the people who sell useless luxuries. Better to give all the tax cuts to the wealthy. Right?
Bluenose
5 years ago
Dope
The most beautiful sight that we see is the child at labor; as early as he may get at labor, the most beautiful, the most useful does his life get to be.
Sounds like a sociopath.
Capitalism
5 years ago
I Agree
I have no problems with increasing the minimum wage. Though, it shouldn't be universal.
For example, minimum wage should not be raised for commission based employees or those who make tips - e.g. waiters.
Also, I'd like to see a phase in period. For example, it is $8 to start, $9 it 3 months, $10 in 6 months. This provides incentive to go out there and hire new people.
Also, by age. $8 for 18 and below. $9 for 22 and below. $10 for everybody else.
We need to think about this. A big jump increases the cost of employment by 15-20%. So, this might deter employers from hiring more, but demanding more out of existing employees.
Also, few people actually make minimum wage. This is window dressing more than anything else. Even the working poor makes about $12/hour.
dr evil
5 years ago
facts
Capitalism where do you get your information?
I know lots of hardworking and educated kids making 8-9 bucks an hour.
Capitalism
5 years ago
Dr. Evil
I remember seeing it when Ontario raised their minimum wage earlier this year...
KWD
5 years ago
clo3, if there truly is a
clo3, if there truly is a labour shortage in the service sector (that’s where most minwage jobs are) it hasn’t reached critical mass. When it does, the small business portion of the service sector will be forced to pay higher wages or their business begins to suffer from having too few employees. There are those small business’ that try to get more productivity from minwage unskilled workers, but they’re merely increasing the rate and angle of their decent into bankruptcy.
Another factor that is reducing critical mass is the introduction of trade and investment agreements … not only are workers brought in from out-of-province and out of country, work is shipped out of province to avoid the need to pay higher labour costs. Because there is an almost endless supply of outsourced cheap labour (combined with an absence of local apprenticeship training) the pressure on minwage pay scales is eliminated.
Compounding the problem further, in retirement communities like Victoria, is the skyrocketing increase in double dipping. There’s an increasing supply of retired folks willing to work for low wages just to keep themselves busy.
All growth needs an increasing rate of growth to survive … without growth capitalism dies.
flattax
5 years ago
KWD
Quote:
"without growth capitalism dies."
This is a completely false statement.
reality_check
5 years ago
Let's be careful ...
This is relatively meaningless stats because if these women work 20 hours a week and/or their husband makes $100,000, then I would love to be a woman!
BTW, the difference of the median income of single woman and single man between 25 and 45 who work full-time (according to MISMATCH, p.172, from US census bureau of statistics, 2001) is 6% in favour of men (which could be meaningless). In other words, equality between sexes in terms of income has been reached in the USA (as well as in Canada, I can extrapolate). The 75% figure one hears often as stated by Feminist organisations refer to all women, regardless if they work full-time or not, if they are married or not )if their husband makes $100,000 or not),... The new generaqtion is treated mostly equally. Now, there is still the issue of maternity leave and loss of experience, whcih can affect a woman's ability to get promotions, but I digress.
Let's be critical.
Frank
5 years ago
Cappy
You said
Whereas Shreck said in the article (quoting StatsCan):
So it should be apparent that there are indeed lots of people working for around minimum wage.
Frank
5 years ago
Labour shortage, maple porridge
Anyone here ever had a problem finding a worker? Especially a young one? There's people all over the place either unemployed or under-employed. I know guys in their 50's working for near minimum wage and I've never had a problem finding a young guy to clean eves or rake a yard or whatever.
I think the "labour shortage" is a scam to bring in yet more low-wage workers.
snert
5 years ago
I don't think so.
Frank
I saw a help wanted sign for 3 different jobs at the Safeway where I shop. I don't recall ever seeing that at any time in the past. You may want to open your eyes a bit more and start seeing just where a lot of the help wanted signs are. They are not all for low paying jobs.
dunngy
5 years ago
FYI to SNERT,The starting
FYI to SNERT,The starting wage for a job at Safeway is currently LESS than $9 per hour,rising to a maximum of $12 per hour.The reason you see so many Help Wanted signs is because for all new hires Safeway IS a low paying job.You may want to do some homwwork yourself,before shooting from the lip!
Frank
5 years ago
Safeway
I have a woman in her 50's that comes to my house every week for my bottles. There's a guy in his 20's walking around my neighbourhood saying he'll clean eves and the leaves off my roof for $25 even though it'll take him a few hours.
7 kids between 16 and 25 are working in the local video store for under $10 an hour and most are not even able to get full-time.
There's a labour shortage in a few areas like construction where demand has supposedly outstripped supply. But even there I'm not having a problem finding people to give me bids on renovations.
All very subjective and like your example, anecdotal, but generally people are still more plentiful than jobs and far more plentiful than ones you can live on or god forbid, raise a kid on.
clubofrome
5 years ago
Safeway?
Sellers of Farmed Salmon. Please ask your local store to remove them. Thank you.
snert
5 years ago
Less anecdotal
Frank
And you have something a little less anecdotal?
Frank
5 years ago
Anecdotes
No, should I? Should you?
snert
5 years ago
Maybe
Frank
Just wondering what establishes anecdotal value? You dismiss my example by giving credence to yours.
BTW quit walking around with your eyes to the ground. There are plenty of help wanted signs for well paying jobs. You might want to pass that on to your local video store.
Frank
5 years ago
Gee
I didn't dismiss your anecdote, I simply countered it with my own.
You might want to lift your own gaze from the sidewalk long enough to notice there are also lots of people living here. Or is that too anecdotal?
snert
5 years ago
Maybe
Frank
You're the one who made the quantum leap. I guess anything is possible.
Frank
5 years ago
Quantum leap
Well, do you know of actual stats proving such a thing? Because all I've seen is other people's anecdotes. Even on tv, its just so and so saying he's offering competitive wages but can't find new people. Well, that's an anecdote too.
I was just back in Saskatchewan a couple of months ago and my friends back there were telling me how they had never seen so many jobs available. Said anybody could go out looking and have 6 offers by the end of the day. I'm quoting, I don't actually believe that.
I'm sure Alberta has been drawing in lots of workers from both of its neighbours but the last time I looked our employment rate hadn't risen to a point where the term "labour shortage" looks to have any basis in fact.
And since the employment rate is an actual stat I don't think I'm making a quantum leap at all.
RickW
5 years ago
DJT
No, I thknk you had it right the first time.........
As long as big can donate to the coffers of political parties
The above should read " as long as business can donate to the coffers....."
Polticians LOVE BIG, 'cause then they don't have to do nearly the amount of work collecting their payoffs, as they would if this country had nothing but small businesses........
RickW
5 years ago
Stats are Great!
CEO "wages" have now reached some 450 times those paid on the factory floor.
If we average this, then 450 @ 10.00, plus ONE job @ $4500 = $9000. Divide that by 451 "workers", and we get an average wage of $19.96!
Spin this just right and those factory floor workers apparently got themselves a (nearly) $10 raise just like that!
Stats can be wonderful things!
snert
5 years ago
Unemployment rate
Frank
So you're saying that an unemployment rate of 3.9% is what, too high or too low? How does this number lend itself to indicating that there is a "scam" going on? Are you saying the stats are being manipulated.
Fii
5 years ago
Slave province
The minimum wage in BC is benefitting no one but business owners- and they ARE reaping huge benefits. The training wage is pretty much allowing them to get away with free labour.
Let's not forget the thousands of working holiday students who pour into Vancouver. I have a Japanese friend (she's 43 yrs old) who is now married to a Canadian and she has been looking for restaurant work that pays above $8/hr. NOTHING. Especially among the Japanese restaurants in the Lower Mainland, a majority of the workers are 'working holiday' students who are working for either the training wage or the minimum. When they leave, another one comes along. My friend and I actually found out from one waitress that she was "training" for FREE because her employer had told her this is what is done in Canada. Her English was so poor she had no idea... we also discovered all the tips were going straight to the owner- NOT the waitresses. This is a place frequented by locals- right next to Chapters on Robson (forget the name).
Cheap labour, indeed.
Frank
5 years ago
snert
I didn't even mention the unemployment rate as that's only part of the story. I'm sure you will agree that that figure has become less and less meaningful over the years as the labour market has become more "flexible" and with the meteoric rise in (so-called) self-employment.
As a measuring tool therefore it is not what it once was.
Anyway, as regards a "labour shortage" based on anecdotal evidence provided by Tony Parsons I think you have to look at other numbers. A low unemployment rate does not mean a labour shortage at all. I realize people have declared full employment to be higher than it used to be, some even say 6% is "full" employment, how convenient I would say.
But anyway, I was actually referring to the employment rate. That is, how much of our population is actually working. Seems to me that we want to look more at the number of people available to work and not so much the number of people "looking for work" before we start yelling that there's a labour shortage. Canada's national employment rate last month was 63.5% by the way. In BC it was 63.8%.
After all, the unemployment rate will sometimes increase even as the number of jobs do because suddenly they say there's more people looking for work. Well, if those people start looking for work as soon as jobs start appearing then maybe we should be counting them as unemployed from the beginning don't you agree? Yet we don't. And I believe we don't for political reasons.
So my point is that there's probably still lots of people to employ that are presently not showing up as unemployed. Also, many people who count as employed are actually in part-time jobs and want full-time work. Rather than they being counted as 100% employed I think they should count as only 50% employed or whatever.
So let me ask you, you don't see any political agenda behind why certain business groups would start declaring a labour shortage just as wage gains are finally starting to appear after years of stagnation if not outright decline when compared with inflation?
snert
5 years ago
Frank
Don't forget to factor in the derivative values for the phase of the moon and the position of the planets. And it's still a quantum leap to call it a "scam".
It is close to the point now where those not working are doing so by choice. If you wish to include them in your numbers, fine but that does not eliminate the fact that some vacancies are hard to fill.
How would you account for the part time people that don't want full time work? Should they be counted as 100%ers or 25%ers? How are you going to distinguish between those that do and those that don't want full time work?
To answer your question, what I do see is some lower paying wages getting boosted by the laws of supply and demand which probably pisses those employers off that have to pay the increase but I don't think that's worthy of "a scam to bring in yet more low-wage workers".
What it appears is that you are suggesting that we don't have to import low-wage workers, we should just use the ones we have. Or, are all of these employables highly skilled.
I don't think it's a scam. The pendulum swings in both directions so things will stabilize eventually.
Frank
5 years ago
Quote:What it appears is
Yes
So tell me again, why is business declaring a labour shortage when you don't think there is one?
Frank
5 years ago
Quote:Don't forget to factor
Somehow I'm willing to be that the people at StatsCan are able to deal with percentages. My daughter learned them in grade 4. I don't think it qualifies as high math.
As for determining the level of underemployment, why don't we use the method they use for things like measuring business confidence and predictions of business investment? In other words, why don't we ask a sample of them?
The thing is, I'm the one stating things will stabilize. Its the other side that's saying it won't and we have a crisis.
G West
5 years ago
Supply and demand
If it's fine for the market side, why shouldn't it be fine for the labour side. In other words, forget bringing in cut rate labour from elsewhere and let market forces take over. If it's good enough for real estate why shouldn't it be okay for the folks who build the houses.
So just move that demand curve and the labour supply problems will work themselves out. Can't get anyone to work for you - try paying more.
snert
5 years ago
G West
That's what is happening now to some extent but to see what can happen down the road look at the ups and downs in the IT business. Unfortunately there is lots of crashing and burning as supply exceeds demand. Plus there are some jobs you just can't get anybody to work except cheap imports.
If anybody has a formula for accurately predicting this stuff, well there's money to be made.
Frank:
I'm sure your daughter feels quite competent with her percentages but they do not explain your conspiracy theory very well hence the astrological computations which must be needed to make things fit.
Frank
5 years ago
Snert
You believe a conspiracy theory is when one believes someone is lying? Okay, we'll call Oxford and get rid of the word "lying" and just accuse everyone of being involved in a conspiracy instead.
As for my numbers, where exactly are you having trouble with it? Is it the rate of employment versus the rate of unemployment? Is it the level of poverty? Homelessness? The part-timers counting as fully employed? Just let me know and I'll explain further.
Frank
5 years ago
Snert
It occurs to me its not the numbers you're having trouble with but the connection I made between the cries of "labour shortage" and the move to bring in foreign workers?
That's old news. The following quotes are from an article on the Tyee over a year ago, the link to the original article is at the bottom.
Now, calls are being heard in some business circles for the federal government to solve the problem of rising labour costs by bringing large numbers of foreign workers into the country on temporary permits.
Now, facing the prospect of over eighty billion dollars in Olympic and other major project construction between now and 2010, the industry is plagued by shortages of skilled journeymen in most construction trades and needs the federal government to speed up admission of skilled workers on temporary work permits immediately.
Frank
5 years ago
continued
"We need," he said, "to change this distorted mix in immigration. We need a system that will make it as easy to bring in construction workers as it is now to bring in information technology workers. Everybody understands there is a shortage, but the structure for bringing in construction workers is unrealistic and bureaucratic. The trade union movement has captured Service Canada. The unions have been very effective in getting government to put up barriers."
http://thetyee.ca/News/2006/02/24/BCGlobalTemps/
Frank
5 years ago
and...
http://thetyee.ca/News/2006/09/01/Ironworkers/
And I'm sure you read this Tyee article too.
Frank
5 years ago
and...
from a cbc report on the same foreign workers being brought in due to the so-called "labour shortage"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/09/20/bc-construction-fed.html
G West
5 years ago
And furthermore
It can't just be because the government and the industry are allergic to increasing costs.
You might want to check the history of the costruction of the expansion of the Trade and Convention Centre. Some cost over-runs are just fine apparently.
Just like some tax cuts for some supporters are more important than others I guess - even if the effect is to throw the provincial economy for a loop.
RickW
5 years ago
even if the effect is to throw the provincial economy for a loop
In this "golden decade" the only loop surely must be a positive feedback loop, n'est pas?
snert
5 years ago
Somewhere along the line
Frank
Somewhere along the line you made another quantum leap to the point where you believe that I don't think there is a labour shortage. You have to watch out for those quanta, they can be tricky.
I just don't think there is any deception or conspiracy, which ever you prefer to use, involved to use the current "labour shortage" to bring in more "low-wage workers".
In the article you quoted where does it actually say that these workers are going to be brought in and underpaid. It does say that they will be used to try and stabilize sky-rocketing labour costs. That old supply and demand thingy?
You may wish to update your sources with some more timely links. This from the Maple Ridge Times. So far any imported workers have been adequately compensated either through a reasonable employer or the by threats of job action in another mega project. Vigilance is needed to make sure this continues.
Scam? I think not.
dunngy: I missed your comment and will not challenge it other than to reiterate the fact that I have not seen Safeway post help wanted adds in their stores before. Maybe there is justice on the planet after all. What goes around comes around eventually and now they can't find cheap help any more.
Frank
5 years ago
snert
So what do you call it when there isn't a worker shortage according to the workers but there is according to Phil Hochstein et al?
Speaking of quantum leaps, why would they have to be underpaid? You never took economics obviously but the way it works is wages won't rise if there is a plentiful supply of labour. Therefore if you bring in foreign workers you don't have to compete for local workers. Its actually a pretty simply concept, increase the supply of labour to prevent having to increase what you pay in wages.
Not as complex as your view that climate change is a massive conspiracy is it?
Frank
5 years ago
Scam
From the link :
But Schom-Moffatt said training is the province's jurisdiction and there's no time since the bridge is scheduled to open in 2009.
Strangely, that echoes what the unions were saying last year in the Tyee. That there was plenty of time to train local workers but the province and industry weren't interested even though they had plenty of warning. Instead they pushed for government to allow foreign workers.
Costs money to train local people and they weren't willing to pay it.
snert
5 years ago
And that makes it a scam?
Frank
You're good with numbers, so what percentage of people involved in the project that you are referring to are actually imported?
Unfortunately if outside companies are allowed to bid on the job then some worker importation must be expected. Although the mix appears such that it could be supplied locally neither of us knows that for sure.
Was the issue that the unions had with the loss of work or the pay scale. It seems that once the pay scale was established that the issue got parked on the back burner.
You don't train a journeyman in one year. You are talking apples and oranges.
Still not a scam.
Frank
5 years ago
snert
How many people are involved with the project? And, why does the percentage matter?
Not at all. If you read the articles the unions do mention that they tried to get the training programs set up very early on in the process. The unions themselves said there won't be enough skilled workers to work on all the projects this government wants done so more workers would have to be trained. The unions were ignored. In fact, the government cut back on its role in apprenticeship programs. There was indeed plenty of time to train the workers necessary from the existing local population.
Perhaps not enough to convince you but certainly more evidence on the side of scam than there is on the other side.
lark2
5 years ago
Not all parents want to contribute $$ to buisnesses
I can never fathom why my parental pockets should be considered available for low-wage employers. Where on earth did this notion come from? With my four children, I have contributed rather a lot to the low-wage industry. My last experience, post training wage, however, was the worst.
My son, while being paid $6 per hour before all taxes and deductions, was told he needed certain colours of clothing-trousers, shoes, belt etc. All of this was paid for by me as a direct subsidy to his cinema employers. Of course, it is through me that he continued to have his nice white teeth, his health care, his basic nutrition, and his transportation to and from work. The tiny take-home pay eventually caused him to quit in disappointment and concentrate on school, which was the only benefit that I got from my involuntary subsidy.
snert
5 years ago
The "scam" rages in Alberta too.
The "scam" rages in Alberta too.
Latarnik
5 years ago
Afraid of raising minimum wage?
Yes, I am. When you ask unemployed bums, they will say no. But ask business people, they know.
Last radio was made in North America 30 years ago, by workers who were making $11 an hour.
By making unreasonable minimum wage law, more and more people will be unemployed, working part time, on commission, on contract as "independent contractors." More young people will never get a job, they will wander as school dropouts to sex workers, drug addicts to dead victims. Is that what socialists are planning for them? Socialists own the banks now, Ontario Teachers pension fund has over 100 billion dollars. "Capitalists" (all those who are not civil servants) slave 15 hours a day to meet payroll and pay taxes, to keep their Masters (civil servants) happy. Capitalists will not revolt, just go bankrupt or move to more friendly (less utopian socialist) environment.