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Basi-Virk Case Tests Citizens' Patience
Frustrates even trial judge with its delays, disclosure issues.
Where's the media?
"Just so we're clear, the public interest in having this case heard outweighs just about everything else."
-- B.C. Supreme Court Justice Elizabeth Bennett
Over three years after the Dec. 28, 2003, police on raid the B.C. legislature and with the long-awaited breach of trust trial of former provincial government ministerial aides David Basi and Bob Virk still not underway, presiding Justice Elizabeth Bennett is understandably frustrated.
That's what led to Bennett's somewhat exasperated statement at the conclusion of another lengthy B.C. Supreme Court hearing March 7, where both defence lawyers and the special prosecutor explained why the case could not begin April 2 as planned but needs to be delayed by weeks more.
And much of the court session revolved around the thorny issues of disclosure -- of evidence and to the media. On Feb. 26, the defence had filed a lengthy application for disclosure and the hearing was to discuss related issues and the upcoming trial.
Justice Bennett began by expressing her unhappiness with the fact that while on business in Quebec last month she read a Globe and Mail newspaper report outlining a defence disclosure application before she had even seen it herself.
It briefly thrust blogger Robin Mathews, a retired Canadian studies professor who has intently followed the Basi-Virk investigation, into the spotlight after he sent a personal letter to Bennett complaining that he could not get access to the defence application through the court registry while the media obviously had the document the day it was filed.
But it was lawyers for the defence who raised the most vexing disclosure problems -- their claim that the RCMP and special prosecutor Bill Berardino continue to fail to adequately disclose evidence they have gathered so that the defence can prepare its case.
All in all, par for the course of one of the most delayed, difficult and yet ultimately extremely important cases on the court docket.
Media? What media?
Perhaps that's why there were more reporters present for The Tyee than for B.C.'s dominant newspaper chain, CanWest Global, publishers of the Vancouver Sun, Province, Victoria Times-Colonist and National Post combined. That would be me.
And just maybe that's why the day after the hearing, only five B.C. newspapers bothered to report on the latest developments: The Globe and Mail, 24 Hours -- my newspaper -- plus the Prince George Citizen, Nelson Daily News and The Daily News of Kamloops, the last three relying on Canadian Press reporter Camille Bains's filed coverage.
Or perhaps it's because a case that involves the B.C. government's controversial $1 billion privatization of B.C. Rail, charges against government aides who were highly politically active in both the federal and BC Liberal parties, allegations of connections to drugs and organized crime, claims of RCMP conflict of interest and a bungled investigation and an increasingly clear defence argument that the accused were merely following provincial government orders isn't worth reporting on.
To be fair, the Sun's Vaughn Palmer weighed in with a full column on March 10, and CanWest Global's John Daly of BCTV attended the hearing but the media turnout and subsequent reporting was sparse.
Disclosure? What disclosure?
"There's an issue I need to raise with you."
Definitely not the first words either a defence lawyer or special prosecutor want to hear from the presiding judge.
But that's exactly what Justice Bennett said to a group of about 10 assembled lawyers representing the defendants, prosecution and the federal and provincial government, as well as about six media representatives and a few observers.
"I read a lengthy report in The Globe and Mail in Quebec about the application before I received it," Justice Bennett continued. "I have a letter from a member of the public asking why he can't have access to the document."
One of those observers sitting next to me was in fact the letter writer -- Robin Mathews -- and his intervention in the case was a welcome reminder that the public does indeed have a right to know what goes on in its courts, a right that Justice Bennett amplified on considerably.
"These proceedings have to be as open as possible," she said, noting that in the most high-profile case she has previously adjudicated, the trial of former premier Glen Clark and Dimitrios Pilarinos, the building contractor and Clark's neighbour who hoped to influence a casino application, Bennett had set up a simple system to ensure access to court documents.
"Media access also means general public access," Bennett continued. "There's a presumption in the law of public access."
When special prosecutor Berardino mildly objected: "The presumption is public access but there will be documents with third-party information that...," Bennett cut him off.
"Let me be clear -- I will deal with this on a document by document basis," she said curtly.
Papers? Show me your papers
And documents there will be aplenty.
Previously in court it has been stated that over 100,000 pages of evidence have been produced, and counting.
But apparently not all the pages that the defence has been counting on.
That much was obvious when an angry Kevin McCullough, counsel for Bob Virk, lit into the special prosecutor's tardy disclosure of evidence.
"There are disclosure issues in this case that must be resolved," McCullough said. "There are several investigations of Mr. Basi and where one stops and the other one starts is very difficult to tell. There are many investigations going on."
"We've got disclosure problems and they're big problems and they've got to be dealt with. Milady, I apologize for the frustration but when my friend says he needs 13 days..."
McCullough was referring to his "friend" -- in the courtroom parlance of bonhomie -- special prosecutor Berardino, who had just told Bennett that he needs 13 business days in order to file a response to the defence disclosure application.
That's a full 13 days after the defence supplies Berardino with background to its disclosure request, because Berardino told the court that: "There is no material in support of the application."
So, who's not disclosing?
Well, Basi's own lawyer, Michael Bolton, laid the blame at Berardino's doorstep.
"The material that gave rise to the disclosure application arises predominantly from the disclosure received from the Crown," he told Bennett. It's important because it will let the defence know and the court know the Crown's theory, for example."
"What is the nature of the benefit?" he asked, referring to the allegation that Basi and Virk were to receive a benefit in exchange for providing lobbyist Erik Bornmann with confidential government information about the B.C. Rail deal for his client OmniTRAX, one of the bidders.
Bolton claimed that the original Crown theory that Basi and Virk were getting jobs in Ottawa with the federal Liberal government under then prime minister Paul Martin "seems to have been discarded."
Bolton continued by stating that a Crown failure to disclose evidence was hampering the defence case.
"The problems with pursuing the goal is that we're still receiving disclosure," he said. Bolton claimed that the defence had received a "statement from one of the key Crown witnesses, Mr. Erik Bornmann, in 2005 -- we got it in 2007."
Bolton also said that two wiretap applications the defence had been seeking for two years had only been received on Jan. 10, 2007.
And McCullough ended his exasperated appeal by stating that: "We've received critical notes from senior police officers just now."
But Bennett wasn't overly sympathetic.
"Mr. McCullough, there's nothing I can do about that now. You've received them," she said.
And Berardino defended the Crown's position. "There's a fundamental difference of opinion on disclosure," he told Bennett.
Relations? We have provincial and federal relations
While the defence and Crown sparring provided most of the sparks, legal counsel for the province gave a little levity to the proceedings.
George Copley, appearing for the "Executive Council of British Columbia" -- in other words, for the provincial government, addressed the potentially thorny issue of "privilege" -- the legal right of both cabinet privilege and solicitor-client privilege when it comes to disclosure of evidence involving cabinet members.
"I don't know how much background you know," Copley quietly began.
"Assume I know very little," Bennett replied, to muffled laughter in the courtroom.
Copley outlined that a sensitive procedure had been developed under Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm to ensure evidentiary documents seized from the B.C. legislature where privilege was claimed were examined to see if they were deemed relevant to the case.
Copley's low-key presentation revealed little of great interest -- with one prominent exception.
"Borden, Ladner, Gervais were the solicitors for the B.C. Rail deal," Copley said. "We may have to involve them."
Dates? We got dates
That left it to Justice Bennett to determine a new schedule for the now-delayed trial.
Another hearing on progress on the pre-trial preparations will be held at 9:30 a.m. on April 2.
Then, after a series of responses from defence and Crown on the disclosure application, the defence will file its Charter of Rights application on April 13. That application -- originally expected to be filed March 21 -- is expected to ask that Justice Bennett throw the entire case out of court over the validity of search warrant applications obtained by RCMP.
And then on April 16 Justice Bennett will hear the actual arguments on the defence disclosure application in what will take up to 15 days in court.
After that the case is expected to continue on into the summer months, with Bennett noting that she is scheduled to teach a course in the second week of July but will forego it if necessary if the trial requires it.
Expect a long, hot summer of evidence -- if the case goes ahead.
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alive
5 years ago
so we wait again
Expect a long, hot summer of evidence -- if the case goes ahead.
good point!
Bet your bottom dollar that both the government and the media will do their best to delay and obscure this.
I am happy that you keep this story alive, but really there is nothing new to report.
Grumpy
5 years ago
Dragging ones feet
Clearly, the government is afraid of this case and are dragging their feet. From all the snippets i have heard, the Liberals are clearly afraid.
This case is full of what ifs and I wonder if DUI Campbell's Teflon suit will be finally pierced by Virk-Basi bullet?
DJT
5 years ago
What a joke
If this case had involved the NDP building a deck or something, or perhaps a member of the Hell's Angels, someone would have been swinging from the yard arm a long time ago. Even the remotest perception that the government may have a hand in stalling this case doesn't bode well for them. Let's rock n' roll.
Chris H
5 years ago
"Expect a long, hot summer of evidence"
"Expect a long, hot summer of evidence -- if the case goes ahead."
How long will this go on until the judge simply throws the whole thing out of court because the Crown refuses to give evidence over? What happens in provincial court is the people's business. Crown counsel should remember that.
Grumpy
5 years ago
What is Campbell afraid of?
It is correct, that a sun-deck brought the downfall of Clark. The media treated him with utter contempt.
I was no Clark fan at all and it was he who forced my rethink supporting the NDP.
But with Campbell, BC has become his personal candy store, with free treats for his friends. Obviously Campbell didn't like to play trains so he traded his toy train for a promise of more sweets for his store.
One of his friends, who didn't have enough sweets, or a a trade card, didn't get the big train set, but hey, some more sweets, he can get the small train set.
Campbell has a very sweet tooth.
BC Mary
5 years ago
Let's hope for an early trial ... then a Public Inquiry.
Let's pin our hopes on Madam Justice Elizabeth Bennett's view that there's something in the B.C. Rail Trial which the public needs to know about. Let's hope that the B.C. Rail Trial does go ahead. And soon.
What's really worrisome, right now, is Bill 6 The Public Inquiry Act.
The best default position for the B.C. Rail Case (no matter what happens with the trial) is that it goes to a Public Inquiry to allow full disclosure of what happened to B.C. Rail.
But the B.C. government seems to sense danger and is attempting to cut off public accountability by legislating that the Public Inquiry findings will be delivered to a Cabinet Minister (who can keep it secret) rather than to the Legislature (which makes the findings available to the public).
People should get to work right now, to convince their M.L.A. (whichever political stripe) to make the Public Inquiry Act fully accountable to the public. Otherwise ... why have a public inquiry?
G West
5 years ago
I was wondering if there might be a few readers
Who'd actually like to read some of the defence submission from the Notice of Application for Disclosure of February 26.
I can't understand why the newspapers are so reluctant to print what the wiretaps of the accused parties are actually said to have contained.
You'd think the public might have an interest, as Madame Justice Bennett has said, in knowing that.
Even if, as it's hard not to acknowledge, this sordid affair never does come to trial.
In different circumstances, a few years ago, CanWest seemed to have a very different view of such things.
Yes?
Kory
5 years ago
Election Time
Isn't there a federal election brewing? It's sounding like April or May to me. And BC is a pasture ripe for any picker. So perhaps the federal Conservatives might be pulling some strings to counter the Libs' strings. Heck, a provincial Liberal corruption scandal got the Cons a minority. Is it such a stretch to think they might use this tried-and-true trick to build a majority? I wouldn't be surprised if a few details DO start making it into the mainstream media... and, conveniently enough, just as an election is being called.
Budd Campbell
5 years ago
Federal Liberal Involvement - Already Severed?
Bolton claimed that the original Crown theory that Basi and Virk were getting jobs in Ottawa with the federal Liberal government under then prime minister Paul Martin "seems to have been discarded."
This is the two most critical passages from my viewpoint. It implies that the Federal Liberal organization, IOWs, the Ontario Liberal heirarchy, has suceeded it detaching itself from any direct fallout that may come from this trial.
Sure, Basi and Virk were doing some ground level organizing in BC for the Paul Martin leadership drive, will go the story, but there was no invovlement of senior national Liberals in directing their activities, no one in Ottawa knew any details of what they got up to, and no one in the PMO promised them any rewards for excessive enthusiasm or improper shortcuts.
village
5 years ago
As to the defence submission Gwest..
Do you have any access to the links or what have you that would provide the transcripts of that submission.
This story and all of it's twists and turns needs to be followed by all concerned citizens of this province..
IT GOES AT THE VERY HEART OF OUR GOVERNANCE MODEL AND political culture as well as at the very root of our identity as citizens of this province.
Looking forward to all angles and optics of this particular story *...
Thanks once again to all who help throw some light on this story..,in the interest of keeping us better informed and yes, interested in what actually is going on in our very own backyard.
In the context of our political history , there is quite a convergence of events , that point to a deep deep malaise within our '' house '' - the province - , that can only be alleviated by having all the INFORMATION and COMMUNICATIONS that eventually created the backgrounder for decisions that were made ..., on our behalf.., indeed, the BC RAIL deal , and the involvement of the federal government notwithstanding , are what's needing to be cleared.
As to the MSM ( main stream media ), there is clearly a need now to have them return to a traditional role of reporting . Indeed , telling the stories that are critical to a nation ,
to a province ,to any and all communities..
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK , TYEE.
Village,
thomas49
5 years ago
what to believe ???
geez... everytime i read or hear something about this affair,its like THE KEYSTONE COPS AND THE GANG THAT COULDN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT MEETS JUDGE JUDY !
What a JOKE those MENTAL MIDGETS ON HORSEBACK have perpetrated on US.
AND WAS IT ON PURPOSE ????????????????
or are the RCMP really that STUPID/INCOMPETENT(fill in your own description of our wonderful national/federal HALFWITTED police)
REMINDS ME OF THAT HALF WIT IN KELOWNA THAT DROWNED FALLING OFF A ZODIAK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LAKE WITH FULL GEAR ON!!!!!
I guess,HE really had a hard time treading water with a BULLET PROOF VEST ON ???
AND THE FOUR KLOWNS that walked into an ambush ???
I must also ask...who trains the KLOWNS???
G West
5 years ago
Village
Look here:
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
Virtually all of paragraphs 1 - 48 of the Notice of Application are displayed in that site. (WIth some commentary as well)
You have to look for them a bit because there is a lot of other (interesting) material there as well.
Look for the sections titled Part I through Part IV - Notice of Application for Disclosure. Part V, I'm sure will be following before too long.
You might even want to bookmark the site.
Cheers.
Budd Campbell
5 years ago
DYING ON THE JOB IS NEVER FUNNY
geez... everytime i read or hear something about this affair,its like THE KEYSTONE COPS AND THE GANG THAT COULDN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT MEETS JUDGE JUDY !
thomas49, I realize you're trying to be humourous but some of your comments are in rather bad taste.
RickW
5 years ago
Delay Tactics......
....until our collective attention span is exceeded.
thomas49
5 years ago
bad taste of reality
thomas49, I realize you're trying to be humourous but some of your comments are in rather bad taste.
Cannot swallow the bad taste of reality ???
TOO BAD cause i am not trying to be funny,these MENTAL MIDGETS are DANGEROUS nad constantly SCREW UP BIGTIME and we are all paying for their MISTAKES...BIGTIME!
so next time you hear about ...HOW THEY GOT ALL THE EVIDENCE !!!
WONDER ALOUD,LIKE I DO...WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING????????????????????????????????
oh yeah...................the EVIDENCE!!!
clubofrome
5 years ago
unpalatable
In bad taste to say the least...
crh
5 years ago
you're one sick klown yourself thomas 49
[
This is the worst example of bad taste that I have read in some time....Tyee you should ban this poster untill he grows up
thomas49
5 years ago
clubofrome 3 minutes agoIn
clubofrome 3 minutes agoIn bad taste to say the least...
ANOTHER ....reality,is bad for me...gimmee sum ...GOOD NEWS,TELL ME LIES....KEEP ME HAPPY !!!
after reading your posts over the years,i gotta say,DON'T CALL THE KETTLE BLACK .
oh well fun is over,gotta get back to work...let you have a good go at learning all about the world by yourselves...
clubofrome
5 years ago
The Kettle is White then...
Really thomas 49, that was nasty and you know it. Is that really who you are, or are you just angry, frustrated and disillusioned like the rest of us?
alive
5 years ago
Interesting, but not funny!
bad taste allright!
Still I have wondered how 4 trained cops failed to ensure their own safety?
Methinks perhaps they were so confident their mission was a lost cause, that they sat down to play cards?
There is no rational explanation forthcoming about how they all were ambushed, so one has to assume they all were in one spot, ready for the assain.
It is not a matter of training I am sure, but of poor individual attitude.
eight
5 years ago
thomas49
Cst. Jean (Joseph) MINGUY
Cst. Brock Warren MYROL
Cst. Peter Christopher SCHIEMANN
Cst. Lionide Nicholas JOHNSTON
Cst. Anthony Fitzgerald Orion GORDON
None of these men were "Klowns". They may (or may not) have made mistakes which resulted in their deaths while they were serving and protecting the likes of you.
Your comments reveal much more about your character (or lack thereof) than you realize, and in my books you owe the families of these men an apology.
Incidentally, upper case and multiple punctuation marks do not give your comments validity, nor are they necessary for us to grasp what you mean.
Stump
5 years ago
bulletproof over floater
While the comment may be confrontational in tone, I certainly found myself wondering (at the time) why a trained professional, theoretically knowledgeable of the dangers, would fail to wear his life vest while piloting a boat all alone. Drowning WOULD seem to be the greater risk (as compared to being shot).
Grumpy
5 years ago
Um guys, let's get back to the story
Hey guys, let's get back to the real story, Basi & Virk! Let the dead be.
secondlook
5 years ago
No coincidences . . .
Linkages: Borden, Ladner, Gervais are also the solicitors for Vanoc . . . . Gee - any coincidences here?
Round & round the circle goes.
G West
5 years ago
I'll post in a few paragraphs, if you like
For anyone who'd actually like to read some of the defence submission from the Notice of Application for Disclosure of February 26.
I can't understand why the newspapers are so reluctant to print what the wiretaps of the accused parties are actually said to have contained.
You'd think the public might have an interest, as Madame Justice Bennett has said, in knowing that.
Even if, as it's hard not to acknowledge, this sordid affair never does come to trial.
In different circumstances, a few years ago, CanWest seemed to have a very different view of such things.
G West
5 years ago
Paragraphs 30 - 41
From the Defence's submission in the Notice of Application for Disclosure Feb 26.
¶ 31. Mr. Elmhirst was an active member of the B. C. Federal Liberal Party at this time.
¶ 32. Through intercepted communications, the RCMP learned that Mr. Basi was making representations on behalf of Minister Collins to dissuade OmniTRAX from dropping out of the BC Rail bidding process.
¶ 33. Through a series of intercepted communications in November 2003, the RCMP learned that OmniTrax was seeking a “consolation prize” from the Government to stay in the BC Rail bidding process, if in fact they were not the successful bidder.
¶ 34. At this time, the British Columbia Government was not only selling B.C.Rail, but also separately putting out to bid Robert's Bank. The Request for Proposals for Robert's Bank was put out for bid on November 6, 2003.
¶ 35. In early November 2003, OmniTRAX was considering whether they would drop out of the bidding process, and wanted to meet personally with Minister Collins.
¶ 36. The RCMP became aware through intercepted communications that Bobby Singh Virk (hereinafter “Mr. Virk”) was also a Ministerial Assistant who was working with Mr. Basi on the sale of B.C.Rail.
¶ 37. Through intercepted communications, the RCMP learned that Mr. Virk had spoken to Minister Collins regarding the problems with unhappy bidders and unhappy Liberal Government MLAs, the effect this would have on the bidding process, and how the sale of B.C.Rail would be viewed both politically and publicly.
¶ 38. On November 17, 2003, the RCMP learned through a series of intercepted communications that Mr. Basi advised OmniTRAX that Minister Collins had authorized a consolation prize for OmniTRAX in exchange for them staying in the bidding process (hereinafter the “Consolation Prize”).
¶ 39. Critically, on November 17, 2003, the RCMP learned through an intercepted call between Mr. Basi and Mr. Virk, that Mr. Basi told Mr. Virk that Minister Collins had approved the Consolation Prize.
¶ 40. At that time, the RCMP were aware that Mr. Virk was dealing directly with both Mr. Basi and Minister Collins on the sale of B.C. Rail.
¶ 41. On November 25, 2003, the government announced that CN Rail was the winning bidder in respect of B.C. Rail.
Just to remind everyone, in fairness, this is a defence submission. It is what the lawyers for the 'accused' are submitting to the judge. Exactly as it was submitted.
No changes or deletions. No edits by journalists or editors. Just information the public has a right to know.
But still very interesting.
DJT
5 years ago
Openness and accountability- yuk yuk!
It seems to me I had read something about Bill 6, the Public Inquiry Act, but thanks for the memory jog, BC Mary. Knowing the "openness and accountability" of this government, I agree that we should be afraid. Very afraid. I think I will blast off an email to my MLA and maybe to Carole James to boot. On second thought, maybe Adrien Dix.
Skywalker
5 years ago
Why no coverage?
"I can't understand why the newspapers are so reluctant to print what the wiretaps of the accused parties are actually said to have contained."
To actually print the truth or facts would risk another NDP government. The media can't have that. They learned their lesson from 1999. One must understand that a deck by a neighbor and family friend is far more earth-shattering than giving away a railroad to a company that contributed to your election campaign. It is really quite simple.
More complicated is why people keep buying their rags or listening to their versions of the news.
G West
5 years ago
Skywalker
You're right of course.
I was being satirical.
But, even so, it really isn't that funny.
It's actually pretty sad, isn't it?
DJT
5 years ago
Hear Hear
Right on the money, Skywalker. CanWest Goebbels is a joke and I do not understand how the editor looks at him/ herself in the mirror, at least with a straight face. There is a word for people who set aside their morals for money. I don't know what is sadder, that the mainstream media obviously think the public is dense or.....well, like PT Barnum said.
PS: It makes for good puppy training material.
Elliot
5 years ago
'To actually print the truth
'To actually print the truth or facts would risk another NDP government.' not really, but you're right about one thing. why would a majority want these guys back? they were pathetic in gov't (anyone want to argue that one?) and they've been completely ineffective in opposition (or that one?). turns out W.A.C. was right: "they couldn't manage a popcorn stand".
lynn
5 years ago
Coincidentally
The firm Borden, Ladner, Gervais was also part of the BC Rail "evaluation" committee:
From hansard, Monday, April 26, 2004. PM:
Hon. K. Falcon: I'm not going to speculate on that. I'm an optimistic person by nature. I'm very confident in the agreement that we put in front of the competition bureau, and I'm not going to speculate on any outcomes until we have the outcome, and then I'd be happy to deal with that with the member.
J. MacPhail: So now it's not just a hands-off passive process that the minister was making out like before, that oh, they had nothing to do with the competition bureau, that the little pixie fairies were going to take it up to Ottawa for approval and then come back. It turns out that the government has done an analysis. I assume the minister means the B.C. government has done an analysis of the bid in relation to past federal competition bureau decisions. Is that correct?
Hon. K. Falcon: We conducted analysis with the shippers to ensure that the open gateway commitment was going to be consistent with the mandate of the competition bureau, vis-à-vis recent or prior decisions from the competition bureau.
J. MacPhail: Okay. Who's "we"? Is there anybody in the government that the minister can name who actually is in charge of the B.C.'s government's role vis-à-vis the federal competition bureau decision? The minister won't claim to have any alternate strategy, so I assume that on the government's great big $1 billion — maybe $750 million — deal, they've got all their eggs in this basket.
Hon. K. Falcon: I think the member is aware — if she's not, I'm happy to remind her again — that there was an evaluation committee. The evaluation committee brings together some of the brightest legal and accounting talent in the country to ensure that the information they are working on is the best information possible. The member appears to think that all these negotiations and decisions are being made directly out of the minister's office. I remind the member that there was an evaluation team. The evaluation team was tasked with a mandate and did a very good job in fulfilling it.
J. MacPhail: Oh, the minister misunderstands me. I don't think the minister understands anything about this deal. Believe you me, I don't think he's on top of it at all.
Who are the brightest legal and accounting minds on the evaluation committee? Just name the firms.
[2030]
Hon. K. Falcon: Well, that included firms like Borden Ladner Gervais, CIBC World Markets, Aikins, MacAulay — that's Allan Foran at Aikins, MacAulay — and Travacon.
J. MacPhail: Who do those people work for — the B.C. government side of the deal or the CN side of the deal? How does it work?
Hon. K. Falcon: The firms that I mentioned, of course, work for the evaluation committee.
J. MacPhail: So I assume that means the B.C. government.
G West
5 years ago
Glad you mentioned WAC El
Given the relative economic conditions I'd say they had a much better record and I think you'd be hard put to dispute that.
And they didn't give away the store to their friends in West Van, Point Grey and Howe Street - oh and the USA.
Let alone sell out the power-generating capacity of out rivers to a bunch of hucksters from Alberta and try to slip a sweetheart deal in for Alcan at the expense of BC hydro users.
WAC was the only premier to have a sitting member of his cabinet jailed; if this trial goes ahead, he may not be the last though.
Glad you're still a fan Elliot. You may soon be the only one left as more people get wind of what's actually going on. Not a big mystery why Canwest is a little reluctant to cover this story...funny though, properly managed it could be every bit as full of human interest as the Clark deck.
The sad part is that the cost to the people has been so much greater. Even including some peoples’ lives.
The Liberals are mismanaging the province as if it were a popcorn stand and they've shut off the power.
G West
5 years ago
Thanks Lynn
I'd forgotten that passage. Viewed in the light of wiretap evidence, I wonder if Mr Falcon would like to describe the role of the "impartial" evaluation committee a little more precisely. Sounds to me as if they had nothing much to evaluate, doesn't it?
Read in the light of this:
¶ 36. The RCMP became aware through intercepted communications that Bobby Singh Virk (hereinafter “Mr. Virk”) was also a Ministerial Assistant who was working with Mr. Basi on the sale of B.C.Rail.
¶ 37. Through intercepted communications, the RCMP learned that Mr. Virk had spoken to Minister Collins regarding the problems with unhappy bidders and unhappy Liberal Government MLAs, the effect this would have on the bidding process, and how the sale of B.C.Rail would be viewed both politically and publicly.
¶ 38. On November 17, 2003, the RCMP learned through a series of intercepted communications that Mr. Basi advised OmniTRAX that Minister Collins had authorized a consolation prize for OmniTRAX in exchange for them staying in the bidding process (hereinafter the “Consolation Prize”).
Mr Falcon's answers sound....a lot like something he could no longer get away with saying outside the protection of the Legislature.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
I wonder if there are any honest folks left on the Liberal side of the legislature that might just want to disassociate themselves from this kind of thing. Or are there no more people like Paul Nettleton and Elayne Brenzinger left?
G West
5 years ago
Funny how you don't get this stuff
In the Main stream media....
DJT
5 years ago
Oh, Joy!
Gee I miss Joy MacPhail. Can you imagine if she were the leader of the opposition? Things would be a tad different, I suspect.
DJT
5 years ago
Oh, Joy!
Gee I miss Joy MacPhail. Can you imagine if she were the leader of the opposition? Things would be a tad different, I suspect.
Skywalker
5 years ago
One more for Joy>
Joy had her faults as well and we judge her on the basis of the "two against the mass" performance. She also became the media darling because of the lone voice mentality. Still she could say something original and with a bite to it if necessary. She would have been a lot better as opposition leader. Watching question Period now is a bit like watching paint dry as the opposition members seem to take turns asking a question even though some of them should leave the task to those who really know how. If you can't ask a question so that the issue has legs past your 15 seconds in the sun, don't bother. They also ask questions on far too many topics each day rather than focusing on issues that effect everyone in BC. Joy, please call Carole!
kootcoot
5 years ago
elliot the revisionist
elliot the idiot sez quoting WAC that the NDP:
" couldn't manage a popcorn stand".
Maybe that is the Campbell Crime Family's problem too, and that's why they are giving the "popcorn stand" away to their buddies (for future benefits).
village
5 years ago
to G west * ( and while I'm at it to Lynn for hansard quote ..)
These documents ( submissions by the defence ) do point to some very disturbing possibilities. There is, in the act of bringing these out to the surface , A PUBLIC GOOD and PUBLIC AWARENESS resulting ;That can only but awaken people to ENGAGE IN THEIR DEMOCRACY*..
I am very grateful to both of you and of course the author of the article above.., who - along with BC MARY - have kept at it.
I suppose , now that the TYEE has this subject matter well covered , there will be an increasing coverage by the main stream media.. ( one sincerely hopes so.)
Any addresses that could be posted here that would help individuals such as myself who wanted to contact and ENGAGE the ''other '' media? They need to hear from potential readers who are gradually abandonning a once considered CHAMPION of the people's interest.
village
5 years ago
As to the fourth pillar and CONRAD BLACK's problems these days..
I'm convinced that much like CONRAD BLACK - not really understanding the power of shareholders.. ( though they held only 30 per cent of voting shares )..,THEY..*(SHAREHOLDERS ) were ,nevertheless, able to ride the wave of unrest that was overflowing due to ENRON and other corporations convictions in North America . We have in this particular example of allegations not yet proven , a further example of governments not fully realising the power of voters in any particular jurisdiction. We also have a fourth pillar of society crumbling before our very eyes..
PEOPLE are wanting to engage the politicians .And by the emerging technological tools available to any interested individual , we are clearly entering an age of ... CITIZENS INTELLIGENCE NETWORKS..., for lack of a better description.. and these ''communities '' will eventually replace the role of what was known at one time..(as *newspapers ) , champions of the PEOPLE..
Experiments such as the TYEE are but the tip of the electoral and democratic and societal iceberg..., that will eventual sink ...any self assured TITANIC..GOVERNANCE * ( especially those governments that ignores transparency and honesty at their peril.)
Just think of what's happening with phenomena's such as MYSPACE and YouTube.. who clearly are creating opportunities and communications grids ( windows ).., that parallels the Guttenberg presses of a previous millennia..*
The masses are getting better informed and have a way of gathering the information at the speed of light..* The thirst for knowledge and the clustering information power of the internet itself.., puts all forms of corruption on NOTICE *
PEOPLE simply want representation and honest , caring government.Along with caring businessmen or businesswomen who as captains of the Industry will be part and parcel of the solutions that will bring all of our lives to a standard of HAPPINESS...
I truly am looking forward to the next generations of representatives.., who will surely evolve with the tools and the emerging citizens communications masses..»*( creative classes ), who are not only computer and internet literate .., but more importantly ,have fully grasped the significance of the fact that INFORMATION and COMMUNICATIONS of that particular substance capable of activating thought.., will indeed revolutionise how we will eventually participate and engage our very own individual and collective INTELLIGENCE.
This resulting in a transformative vision of governments ,community and society itself.*
village
5 years ago
that should read TO AN ENDURING STANDARD OF HAPPINESS....
Sorry about that!
NoLeftNutter
5 years ago
Village
What are you smoking?
kootcoot
5 years ago
NoLeftNutter
Village is smoking some salmon that he caught using your left nut for bait.
G West
5 years ago
Noleftnutter
I thought you'd left after your last embarrassment. Neo-conservatives do appear to be a little thin on the ground on this particular story.
Always with the insults – seldom if ever an actual contribution of your own.
How come?
I thought you'd left after your last embarrassment.
Always with the insults – seldom if ever an actual contribution of your own.
How come?
What do you actually think of the Campbell Government's performance on this file? Relative to the incomplete information we have of course and making allowance for its conditional nature.
I'd especially like you to address what seems to be a disjunction between the Glen Clark case (and the role the media played therein) and the current extreme reticence of the self-same media organizations involved at that time to stir themselves. Given the size of the alleged consideration involved I can’t quite understand how this should be the case.
Have you a thesis you'd care to share with the readers? This is meant to be alternative media remember.
I'd be fascinated to hear your take.
woody
5 years ago
IM GWEST AND SO AM I
Gwest first quote, said to NoLeftNutter
Then Village his alter ego said in second quote to NoleftNutter
NoLeftNutter that’s a good handle.
NoLeftNutter
5 years ago
GW
You mean my last embarrassment when you had to eat crow. Tasty was it? In the case of the topic of this thread I’m going to let justice take its course before deciding on the outcome. How about you?
I confess to being guilty of being unable to avoid pot shots at the silly group hug posts that Village and others seem to use this site for. Somewhat akin to the overwhelming impulse you must feel to act as the schizophrenic Tyee hall monitor, a lofty position that confirms you’ve realized your potential. It would be sad if it wasn’t so funny.
As for worthwhile contributions, at least Kootcoot brings something funny to the plate. Any chance you could bring your sense of humour out of retirement?
G West
5 years ago
I didn't eat crow nln
Au contraire, in fact, if you care to resurrect that debate by checking it out in the archives I'm sure you'll remember who left with the incarnadine hue on your face. The do it ourselves budget has now entered the historical record. You might enjoy the long list of media persons who’ve concurred with my assessment.
It’s all posted there beneath that lovely picture of Ms Taylor.
I agree that kootcoot makes many positive, and often some very funny contributions.
I'll let you know when I think you have as well. In the meantime, carry on throwing mud.
That you do do passing well.
G West
5 years ago
errata
Last sentence should be:
'That you do, and do passing well.'
NoLeftNutter
5 years ago
Gobble up GW
Garffy, Garffy, Garffy. You can claim all the support of “media persons” that you want. In simple terms, you supported the position that Carole Taylor was responsible for the statement that her was budget was a “do it ourselves” budget. It wasn’t. In fact the very media persons that you claim support you started that lie.
You may be able to square that circle in your own mind but that doesn’t make it so. It only indicates how twisted your mind is……That you are unable to capitulate in the face of these simple facts shows that you are a small man with much to be small about.
G West
5 years ago
More insults - speaking of small -
As usual no logic, no reasoning and no facts.
Only ad hominem remarks and name calling:
Throwing insults is the only thing you're good at my friend.
I don't need the support of media people NLN, in the contrary, all I had to do was read the government's own bumpf.
You should try it.
thomas49
5 years ago
Quote:None of these men were
TYPICAL APOLOGIST FOR THE INCOMPETENTS THAT RUN OUR WORLD !!!
oh ! they are smarter than i am ,cause they are in power,theyare the police ,they are the government,they are the powers that be...
CAUSE I VOTED THEM IN !!!
YEAH RIGHT ,EINSTIEN !
these people are INCOMPETENTS and like you think because they are in positions of AUTHORITY ,they are INFALLIBLE.
unfortunately for you,there are people out here that have people that have a daily bowel movement that uses more brain cells than you ever will ...WHILE YOU THINK .
and i am ex military and an ex pony poker that has been around the block...save your self righteous indignation for your church sermons.
those thinking,this is not on topic,who???what???when???where???why???
the INCOMPETENTS that run and people our police forces make intelligent people want to cry...JUST LOOK AT THAT MORON ZACHARDELLI.
didn't know this ,didn't know that OOOOOOPPS! DID YA JUST CATCH ME INNA LIE???
G West
5 years ago
An article on CN and the BC Rail larceny
http://saltspringnews.com/
Please look about 1/3 of the way down the page, for an article headlined:
Tuesday, March 13, 2007
New World Order
Bill 6: Campbell coalition seeks to hide what it is doing
Some interesting reading - maps and outside links includer.
G West
5 years ago
errata
That's "included".
eight
5 years ago
thomas49
Pretty helpful and insightful stuff. As I said above, your comments reveal much more about your character (or lack thereof) than you realize.
Why do you display such hatred for police or others "in authority"? Got a parking ticket, did you?
"they are smarter than i am ,cause they are in power,theyare the police ,they are the government,they are the powers that be..."
You said it man. In your case, I think you are right on.......
lynn
5 years ago
Great Link
That is a great link you posted above from The Salt Spring News, G.
The map of the proposed NAU corridors is just mind-boggling...wow...what arteries of greed.
And this most interesting and insightful quote from The Salt Spring News:
eight
5 years ago
Gary Collins
Anybody know where Mr. Collins is hanging his hat these days? Curious departure from Harmony without something solid in hand, and one could wonder if he isn't ensconced somewhere being prepped for the upcoming legal proceedings. Maybe becoming the BC version of the Manchurian candidate.....
thomas49
5 years ago
Quote:they are smarter than
another pseudo intellectual waxing poetic ,just to hear his/her own thoughts ...
OUWEE !!!!!!!!!!!ANOTHER PONTIFICATOR FROM ON HIGH,THAT CANNOT READ
eight is a lucky number for asians but being behind the EIGHT BALL sounds a little depressing ...specially when you are one of the special people !
is that what your mommy told you???
YOU WUZ SPECIAL !!!got yer helmet on???now don't fall down and hurt yourself ,EIGHT BALL.
And did you notice the news where the queens cowboys arrested the WRONG MAN WHILE TRAINING????????????????????
MAKES YOU WONDER how that kid in HOUSTON got SHOT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD now doesn't it...
I SAY IT'S THE PATHETIC TRAINING...AND CORRUPTION IN THE RCMP ...
then again,that's my opinon and it seems to have a lot of people nodding in AGREEMENT.
well,except for APOLOGISTS like you EIGHT BALL.
eight
5 years ago
thomas49
First, you have no idea what my thoughts are on the various RCMP misadventures. I have as many questions as anyone; I just don't choose to mock the dead in a cowardly and juvenile manner as you do. Anyone who knows me would fall off their chairs laughing to hear that I had been called an apologist for anyone, let alone those in positions of perceived power.
Second, if you scroll up and take a look, you'll notice that you were criticized roundly by several posters using words like "bad taste", "unpalatable", "sick", and "not funny", with regard to your comments. I didn't notice "many people nodding in agreement."
Finally, your childish name-calling and use of upper case and multiple punctation marks is not working. You can't disguise the fact that you don't really have much to say.
BC Mary
5 years ago
Beware the Ides of March ...
By now, I guess everyone knows that Bill 6 passed third reading in the B.C. Legislature on 15 March 2007by a vote of 36 to 21.
I can't get my head around the idea that there can be a law in place which provides for a Public Inquiry Act into some event of public interest (say, the sale of B.C. Rail, f'rinstance) and then
There's another law (Bill 6) which says that the findings of the Public Inquiry can be kept secret from the public (which pays all the costs).
Am I missing something here ... ???
alive
5 years ago
nope! You caugt it, rigth on
Good observation BC Mary!
Maybe the powers that be has someting to hide?
Too bad that nobody seem to catch on to these maneuverings the Liberals are doing!
Eventually there will be no more provincial assets to sell, and then we can all go to the poorhouse.
G West
5 years ago
The Legislative Library
Now apparently the capo di tutti capo is having the Legislative Library measured for size:
Premier's throne room?
Legislature: Shame on politicians if they shut down historic library
Michael Smyth, The Province
Published: Sunday, March 18, 2007
The stately and historic library at the B.C. legislature is the repository of our history and a shrine to our democracy.
Now it's about to be pillaged by a bunch of shallow, greedy politicians who care only about their own comfort and ego.
The awful news that the political vultures were swooping down on the library broke Friday morning when half the librarians got their layoff notices. A couple of reporters stopping in to do some research couldn't help noticing all the crying going on.
And that's how the news got out: The librarians' tears told the story, while the spineless politicians stealing the people's beautiful library said nothing to the public. Your "open and accountable" government at work!
But once the story was out, Liberal MLA Bill Barisoff -- the current Speaker and supposed "defender" of the legislature -- started his spin cycle. He called me on my cellphone Friday to "clear up any confusion" about the library.
"We're not closing it down," he said. "We have to move the staff out of there to do some seismic upgrading."
Trying to keep the library open during the construction would be expensive and dangerous, he said.
"So once the work is done the library will re-open?" I asked him.
He paused.
"There will continue to be library services in the legislative precincts, yes," he said.
Uh-oh! Now my BS detector was going crazy, and it took some concerted cross-examination to get something resembling the truth out of him.
The bottom line: The library will close for up to two years for the "seismic upgrade." Staff will be reassigned to other jobs in the civil service. All the books and documents -- literally millions of items representing 144 years of the province's history -- will be sent to a warehouse.
And when the "seismic upgrading" is complete? Well, that's when the vultures swoop down to roost.
The rampant speculation -- undenied by Barisoff -- is that the politicians want to turn the five-storey marble-walled library into their own personal office space.
And guess who was down there just a few weeks ago practically measuring the windows for new curtains? Premier Gordon Campbell himself.
The legislative library is a breathtakingly beautiful place: A towering, decorated domed ceiling, soaring columns of Italian marble, gorgeous wood carvings and stained glass windows.
What a perfect place for a premier who apparently thinks he's king of the legislature to set up his throne room -- and hold his 2010 Olympics parties and receptions.
What's even more sickening is that the NDP Opposition is apparently going along with this. It looks like they've been bought off with a promise of some marble-walled offices of their own.
What gall these people have. What a shabby and deceitful plan they've concocted. Shame on all of them.
© The Vancouver Province 2007
And double shame on the NDP if they're going along with this crap.
thomas49
5 years ago
Quote:Finally, your childish
and FINALLY !!! your EMPTY RHETORIC shows you to be little more than a puppy PISSING on EVERY post YOU THINK should have your mark on.
like the TROLL you are...
EMPTY RHETORIC and TAGGING ...the mind of a true DOLT.
Too INCOMPETENT to look up all the murder victims of RCMP that are supposedly JUSTIFIED???
GUESS,YOUR JUST ANOTHER QUEENS COWBOYS APOLOGIST,THEN.
and an anal retentive rule follower that QUESTIONS NO ONE IN AUTHORITY.
eight
5 years ago
thanks
thomas49,
for making my point. I couldn't have done it better.....
thomas49
5 years ago
if you could have...eight ball
I couldn't have done it better.....
you would have made a point if you had a point...BUT YOU ARE DEVOID OF ANY COMMON SENSE !
Typical half witted big mouth out to make a point by pissing on EVERY POST like a puppy ...just to show you were there and left your mark...UNFORTUNATELY !!! your pissing is a weak attempt to mark an ALPHA DOGS PREVIOUS MARKING...
read the posts all you want.you are a little mind on a BIG QUEST...that of UNDERSTANDING ,what you haven't a clue about...life and the trash that we all deal with in our travels...
been at any good choir practices lately pony poker??? you sober on duty???
ONLY SOMEONE AFFILIATED WITH THESE COWBOYS WOULD TRY SO HARD...TO SOUND REASONABLE .
or maybe you are just another WANNABE???
eight
5 years ago
Thanks
Again....
thomas49
5 years ago
lucky time out,eight ball
witless
eight
5 years ago
Well done...
See? No need for half a page of immature nonsense. One word, and your opinion is clear. Don't agree with you of course, but let's just say I'm biased.
For the record, I happen to be an atheist who only sets foot in church for funerals and weddings out of respect for friends or family, so your references to church sermons and choirs ring a little hollow.
As I mentioned previously, I also share your concerns regarding the RCMP.In my opinion it started when Mulroney politicized the office by effectively making the Commissioner an ADM, and the force was then subjected to the same politics, budget- cutting, and affirmative action programs as other government departments. And we all know how efficient they are. The training is the shits compared to a generation ago. I did notice the guy arrested by mistake in North Van during an excercise using paid actors while they were teaching cops how to arrest and cuff a subject. Aren't they supposed to learn that in Regina before they hit the road? No wonder they're winding up in trouble.
My issue with you was mocking the dead. I hope you wouldn't mock a logger, a truck driver, a 7-11 clerk, or an electrician killed on the job. Go after the political a**holes who set the table for this to happen, and demand answers about what is going on, especially where the cops are shooting people in custody. But ridiculing five dead men just winds up putting the spotlight on you.
thomas49
5 years ago
again U miss the point !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will ridicule ANYONE who dies of INCOMPETENCE...
THERE ARE NO BARRIERS TO BETTER OUR LOT IN LIFE.
only the weak...PLAY POLITICS
nice finishing post though ...i like a person with TENACITY...it is what we need to SURVIVE as a whole...
ciao !