lol, Raif.

That will be the day that Harper gets in with a majority. He may squeek in, but it isn't likely.

If he does get in you can kiss our country goodbye.

Like Rafe, I'll be voting Green too. The reasons:

Martin scares me - more Liberal spending on useless projects and/or cronies.

Layton scares me - 1940's dogma over medicare etc. (hint: get real bud, private healthcre is here to stay) and rid yourself of Svend and the other tired lot running for you!

Harper scares me - too right wing, for my likes.

Let's face it, for many Canadians, not one of the major parties serves theit interests and voting is by accident, rather than pursuit of political ideals. So a protest vote to the Greens is certain.

Harper may win a majority by accident, but it will only last one term, unless he is moderate and I doubt he is!

Oh, I think we can thank the block for the next minority, whoever wins. That's right, those disruptive, mideval, old time, look out for me only politicians and their voters. Hats of to what could be the saviors of Canada. Still, its to early to tell. This much, I know. Harper is a western separatist. End of story. Really. The only crowd that would vote for him would be those who want to keep their guns to go to war, and in case anyone has kept up with the recent tide, this flip flopper's going to take them away, as though it gives him credibility. (much better that way for the next U.S. invasion).

Seriously, when did the media fall apart? When did the voter get suckered into thinking that opposition party accusation is grounds for scandal, and the accusor God given right to be morally above it? Does anyone seriously think these joker finger pointers are going to do better? Take a second look. PC promises (excuse me, identity theft promises) with no paper trail or explanation of how they'll fulfill them, other than major deficits, is what scares me most.

Maybe we like a falling dollar and red ink. Maybe we like dirty international looks when we travel, cause thats what will happen with a Harper government. Harper sat regularly with western separatists, and still does. Thats why he's getting Quebec votes. Do the math!
He's got Flanagan as a major campaign organizer and this Calgary prof is one of the scariest of all. This authoritarian butt wipe makes Harper look like a saint. I can rant for pages about the dangers of this man. What blows me away is the latest polls of support for the PC's in this province. Are we really this stupid?

I'm with you Grumpy on that. Vote Green, hope for a minority something or other, and get on with our lives and hope maybe in the future we will have better choices. (on top of the leaders I've got svend and hedi..the svedi..to protest againt)

The odds are, no matter what happens, at least one, if not two of the leaders will get replaced.

"Iacta alea est!"

Still nothing on the fact that Stockwell Day has been told to stand in the corner and keep his mouth SHUT!
Because he was caught on Israeli National Radio telling the Israeli's that if Stephen Harper gets in they will be Israel
s new best friend. The Vancouver Sun columnist Barbara Yaffe was lobbying for Canadian support for Israel after Day's interview as if she didn't know what he had announced. This tells the tale - the newspapers are going to cover any gaffs the Conservatives make. Isn't there some kind of law about media deliberately misleading the public especially during an election. Isn't that trying to control who governs a country. How will this affect his Foreign Policy ? Harper wants all this huge military build up and equipment. i think all this contant talk on crime is a red herring to divert demanding some substant and details about policy.

On C-SPAN after a speech the question period, I listened carefully to the reporters questions to Harper and they were phony soft questions usually asking for a reaction to something Martin has said instead of asking the hard questions about policy. He is trying to imitate Bushy's sound-bite style.

We are deluged with Conservative talk show hosts just like in the U.S. that have been stirring up anger about crime for months by digging up the most outrageous crime stories they can fine and milking the hell out of them I bet dollars to donuts that next on the agenda for talk shows will be the Death Penalty - then we move on to trying scare everybody with threats of terrorists strikes with phony scare tactics, and people just continue to fall right into line with thie crap I just can't believe when we have the best country in the world - the envy of many , the best economy etc etc and are risking throwing it all away for something like the U.S..

Well I am voting conservative this election for a few reasons

The liberals have been corrupted and are doing their best to corrupt the civil service.

Adscam, Option Canada, Challenger Jets, funding Liberal Lobbyists, 2 billion for a dysfunctional gun registry whose Cost-benefit study is a Cabinet secret (gee I wonder why?), RCMP investigation of the “Coalition for gun control” for the misuse of government funds and the lists goes on.

The Liberals and the NDP (following in the footsteps of the Nazi’s and Stalin, should have paid more attention in history class) both wish to seize my property despite the fact that I have broken no laws, the only reason is that it will buy votes from people that ignore the facts. Here is a website done by a friend of mine that contains facts that contradict the Liberals. http://www.handgunban.org/

Neither the Liberals or NDP give a damm about our soldiers. Lack of decent vehicles, body armour or even enough bullets to train properly.

I certainly have no problem with being a friend to Israel, in fact Canada was one of the first to recognize it.

Rebel, you really think the press is biased to the Conservative? Sorry but it’s far more interested in supporting the Liberals.

Don’t have a axe to grind with most rural Greens, haven’t listened to many of their urban cousins that I liked.

If the NDP dumped Jack, had a decent policy on firearms and a defence and foreign affairs policy that didn’t read like it was written by a consultant from Alice’s Wonderland, then I might consider supporting them again, but I am tired of their fairy tale view of life.

Dear Martin, don't let the door hit you on the way out!

I am voting for the conservatives for the following reasons:

(1) I agree with their policies, their platform and their vision for this country.

(2) I believe in small government, and lower taxes. The government is not the solution, it is the problem.

(3) I believe in the direction they will take to make Canada more visible on the world scene. They will beef-up our military, increase foreign aid and peace-keeping.

(4) I believe in transferring more power to the provinces, as this is a diverse nation. I think all British Columbians hate it when we are governed from Ottawa.

And to all you left wing cookoo's - this Party is not a social conservative party. They are pro-choice, and have really given up on the gay marriage issue. Harper merely made a few comments at the beginning of this election to shore up his rural support. This is a pro-business party, quite like the BC Liberals or Alberta Progressive Conservatives.

So, I am voting FOR the Tories and NOT against the Liberals. Corruption is bad, but you can expect a degree of it with any government - given the nature of politics.

Quite frankly, I don't like the Liberals' vision for our country!

Pity the Bloc Quebecois doesn't run candidates in the rest of the country. With the current choices for 'mainline' parties, maybe they'd be in contention.

Yep! This last commentary simply reaffirms what I've been saying. Last I looked Colin, the military got a big boost in the last budget. Last I looked, the PC's and NDP flip flopped and want to take away handguns now, blaming the Libs for inaction. Well, the streets of Toronto weren't paved with blood 5 years ago.

All of those scandals you claim, have one ring of truth. Montgomery. All the rest are allegations by opposition. Go figure. Ask the question who benifits from it and... I don't mean to be rude, here... I've appreciated your posts in the past, especially your light on Alaskan nukes in past articles, but... just because someone claims themselves to be honest by calling their own unsustantiated claims scandal, well... and the media?

Think, man. They sell paper and ratings. What sells? A HORSE RACE. What, you think that we've had good reporting in this election from the majority of editors who publish biased editorials without hardcore facts, or at the most, half truths, you can think again.

I know I won't convince you to change your vote. Thats your own choice. But maybe, just maybe, if you get your wish, you'll realize in hindsight where things went wrong. It's called not knowing the facts.

Rafe is brilliant in one sense. That last sentence. Imagine it. A PC majority. No kyoto, or respect to world leadership examples on environmental issues. Jumping into the next U.S. war. Bending over on trade. Do you have any idea what deregulation means?

And Harpers crime bills. How can he do away with a gun registry, which, by the way, is a shuffled cost reduction of RCMP budget expenses... how can Harper do this without keeping jails splitting from the seams? Banning handguns helps, (to bad every cowboy in the west has no party to vote for on this one now, eh?) but legal guns have to be monitored. Harper's own laws he's suggesting on lowering adult crime ages, tougher laws overall (and I'm not entirely against this) along with reducing the age of legal sex with teenagers, is actually reducing the rights of young people, not protecting them.

What these changes suggest, is that when you turn 16, you become an adult, but not until then, and not after. Is 16 really the magical age of maturity when it comes to the courts? His laws are suggesting that the majority of the population who lost their virginity before the age of 16, are criminals. I guess we're all protected by the grandfather clause on that one.
And lets put 16 year olds into penitentarys. That's a good one. Throw kids in with adults so they can learn from their new daddies. Nice campaign the PC's are running... the Nazi's in Germany ran a campaign in the 30's as well. Very successful.

Small government, lower taxes. Corporate rule, large deficits. Looking forward to that one.

I'm old enuf to remember the last neo-con engorgement at the trough. Nothing will change this merry go round of greed, but proportional representation will help.

Anyway I'm sick of you bastards (grits/cons).
Kiss my ass!

What's with these "I'll see ya and raise ya" election promises? I guess this country is just a personal bananna plantation for these guy's.

Forget long term planning it's not on.

Enjoy the lack of debate tonight!

Brain

All the monies the Libs promised to the military is worth squat to the soldier on the ground, why do you think they are doing emergency buys of uparmoured vehicles? Because they didn’t give a damm until some soldier got killed in an Iltis that should have been retired 10 years ago. They love making long term promises that they have no intention of keeping.

The RCMP budget that you were talking about referred to the registering of handguns that has been around since 1934. The information they got from the RCMP was bad and they didn’t bother fixing it when they incorporated it into the new system. There was no budget for tracking all long guns. This program was like a giant Hoover sucking money from other programs and tell why do you think the cost-benefit analysis is a Cabinet secret? Maybe because it tells them they have thrown our money away. If you had used that money to buy emergency beacons for large pleasure boats, you would save a significant amount of lives and money.

In 2004 there was (Stats Can) 622 homicides in Canada, 27 committed with a registered firearm (both long and handgun) that is 4% of the total. So the Liberals intend to spend 30 million and up (way up) that may or may not benefit 14 or so people.

I can think of a lot better use of that 30 million plus that will save a lot more lives

Plus you aren’t factoring in the economic loss on over 4,600 small family businesses that many will go bankrupt because of this stupid idea.

By the way, on Kyoto, how to create a market to sell a non-existent product (Green credits) How much money will be spent selling and trading those instead of fixing problems?

Geez Brain, did you just move to BC? Deck in Penticton ring a bell?

I'm sure the Cons will spend more on the military, they'll have to, we'll join in as a junior partner on everything the US does. In fact, under Harper I don't even see why we should have a ministry for defence or foreign affairs since we'll just be buying US equipment and doing whatever they ask.

Of course taxes will be lower for now, like Bush we'll just borrow the money for our big military.

I am so fed up about the misperceptions perpetuated in the media and in forums like this about the NDP.

Historically in Canada, the most balanced and fiscally responsible (provincial) governments have been the New Democrats.

And the most fiscally reckless and corrupt have been conservative (or 'Liberal' in BC). (Exception black gold Alberta).

In Saskatchewan the conservatives almost bankrupted the province and it was the NDP who had to clean up their mess.

As for the Greens, I cannot believe that anyone would consider voting for the federal Greens under Jim Harris given the number of Directors that they have lost since Mr. Harris has had his paws in their taxpayer funded piggy bank. It seems that they have been hijacked by a few greedy Toronto frat boys that have caught the whiff of money. There is also something fishy about their accounting. Mr. Harris is a Libertarian, a corporate motivational speaker of all things.

If your primary concern is for the environment then you should be aware that most environmental organizations in the country have endorsed the NDP platform.

And as for the portrayal of the Liberals recklessly doling out promises of more spending for this and that, the Greens are up to 100 billion and counting without articulating how we would pay for it.

And the Conservatives have promised billions more in spending than either the Liberals or the NDP.

The conservatives would prove to be even more corrupt than the Liberals I bet. They are also still enamoured with the totally discredited neocon ideology. Perhaps the best example of this is the current conservative administration in the US. What a mess they have made with their finances...

I voted strategically once and I will never do it again.
(It left a bad taste).

I will be voting for the NDP regardless of the riding that I live in and I will feel good about it.

I cannot believe that anyone is considering voting Green given the current leadership of that party at the federal level, not to mention their platform of promises without accountability.

Surely you are aware of this Mr. Mair!

Well, I think getting rid of the Libs will be one of the great all time "biting off your nose to spite your face" adventures in Canadian history. It's the economy, dummies!

Yeah, Chretien got so desperate about the prospect of presiding over the break up of the country that he gave a carte blanc to a few opportunistic and greedy bureaucrats and a whole pack of criminal businessmen.

But I think all those Canadians who have decided that greed and corruption is an inherent part of Liberalism should at least demand to know what Mulroney was doing in a hotel room with Karlheinz Schreiber (alleged gun runner and big time fixer) accepting a hundred thousand dollars in cash as part of a $300,000 payment--supposedly seed money to start a pizza joint.

Still a Socred, eh Rafe? Darn it anyway, I wanted to like you. But this Green-CRAP wins you the top job of Chimpanzee Pee Catcher of the year. So you're going to vote Green, eh? Oh, such a surprise! Why don't you come right out with it, say it honestly: Let's all vote Conservative. Dingbat.

I knew about Jim Harris being newly arrived from the CRAP/Conservatives. What I didn't realize is that there's an ongoing collegiality between the Green Party (brand name) and the Whatever-Conservatives. Not until Preston Manning had his little "Wine and Cheese with Presters" Party at the Ocean Pointe hotel in Victoria yesterday. Look who mingled:

Earlier, we reported former Reform leader Preston Manning would be the star attraction at a Fair Vote BC fundraiser this afternoon. As expected, the pass-the-hat event was attended by the usual cast of electoral change actors. But a number of federal election candidates made guest appearances, including Conservative hopefuls Robin Baird, Troy DeSouza and Gary Lunn - as well as their Green counterparts Ariel Lade, Mike Robinson and Andrew Lewis.

So, come off it, Rafe. You told us you're a socialist, a while back. Guess you thought that would win a few hearts. Now you're going to vote Green (brand name only). But in fact, it's Social Credit doing business as usual, any damn way it can, steamrolling anybody it can.

Someday, let me tell you how my big sister became a government-indoctrinated Socred. If the labels had been different -- if any left-of-centre government had launched a Plan for the purpose of indoctrinating volunteers into their style of political thinking -- you'd have had the RCMP, Interpol, the CIA after them, and the puppet-press would have head-lined it week after week.

I am suddenly wondering how you got past The Tyee's screening process. Or are you Ron Erwin on week-days?
Watch it. Here comes another Chimpanzee. Ready?

Brain -

I compared Harper to the current provincial governments in BC and AB. Both of whom (like 'em or not) are very fiscally responsible, and have been able to deliver surpluses despite massive tax cuts - let's not forget the BC Liberals forecasted a deficit in their first two years' and got very unlucky with 9/11 and SARS, which compounded the problem.

Your balanced budgets that you boast about are due in large part to policies implemented by the Tories. While these policies were very unpopular at the time, they have reversed the fortunes of the country after Trudeau bankrupted us.

Specifically, the GST and the economic boom after NAFTA sent tax revenues soaring. While, I do give Paul Martin credit for managing the budget effectively, his government would have never implemented such unpopular short term policies.

So, before you assume the Tories will run up major deficits, think again. The Harper Tories are fiscally prudent and pro-business. It is more appropriate to compare them to the Raegen Republicans and not the current Republican idealogues.

The Liberals can't even support that they will run a deficit. If you look at their analysis, and remove the 3M contingency - they are exactly balanced.

This doesn't even consider revenue growth.

Yep, that EXTRA 6 billion in federal transfers didn't mean anything even though its bigger than the surpluses

Are you able to keep a straight face when you write this? 40 billion dollar deficits, that were increasing, a rise in the debt double of what Trudeau had done.

pro-business, sure, so what. As for fiscally prudent, when? where? Harper has never even had a real job.

How encouraging!

3 green voters have announced their preference so far on this thread: Rafe, Grumpy, Dangrice,and now I'll add myself to the list, making 4 GREEN VOTERS here (not counting a 5th Green, Truman, who's "Green" by birth)!

I believe the GREENS deserve support.
They deserve as many $1.75-a-head votes they can get. For the Greens to maintain solid support, or to grow support, will help remind all parties that many Cdns view environmental issues seriously.
Sweep these issues under a rug at your peril, politicians!

If the Greens receive a decent % of votes, it
may help further a push to move toward adopting STV or some other type of proportional rep.
The more that first past the post becomes viewed as the antiquated, quasi-democratic,unfair, unequal system it is, the better!

At the same time, I hope to see Layton's NDP
win more seats, as well as see Green votes grow.Both are possible.

Since Libby Davies is my MP,
my voting Green will not affect NDP chances anyway, as Vancouver East is one of the safest NDP seats, at least with Libby there.

Mabellbc writes:

"So, before you assume the Tories will run up major deficits, think again. The Harper Tories are fiscally prudent and pro-business. It is more appropriate to compare them to the Reagan Republicans and not the current Republican idalogues."

This comparison is not overly adroit, Mabellbc and tends to call your knowledge base into serious doubt because the Reagan Republicans ran up the largest deficit in the history of the country

Frank -

You are correct, however they still provided surpluses without the assistance of the Feds. They only committed to balancing the budget in year 3. Look at the forecast for this year - assuming zero transfers.

Record deficits were a result of the Trudeau era social spending - plus interest payments on debt accumulated by Trudeau. You may forget that in the 80's - interest rates were 15%+.

You are correct about Harper, he is a policy guy. The party though is supported by some of the brightest business and economic minds in the country. These same business groups support balanced budgets!

How so? The increased transfers exceeds their surpluses.

I remember the period of high interest rates in order to tame inflation. But the Conservative budget deficits increased. After 9 years you can't still blame Trudeau.

Not through taxation though, they support it through social spending cuts.

I see what you are saying - fair enough - with exception for AB - transfer are always considered when budgeting - it is part of the revenue stream. I though you were talking about those one-time payments and the un-anticipated equalization payment.

So, very rarely does a provincial government have a surplus when backing out the transfer payment.

The deficits increased because they couldn't control the interest on the debt - at those rates with the debt on hand. The Americans had the same problem. The economists at the BOC decided that it was better to control inflation than to promote further economic investment and worry about deficits. Those interest rates were crippling everybody from home owners to the government.

As a result, they had to implement the GST.

Fair enough, you are correct. Although, the Conservatives can still accomplish most of their goals by not drastically increasing social spending.

You can slice this and dice this all you want but barring a major shift the Conservatives will form the next government.
The bottom line is the Liberals have been in too long and are corrupt ina multitude of areas.
The NDP is not a force to be reckoned with yet federally, nor will they ever be due to their Socialist ideals and union affiliations and with Greens in power we would all probably be on welfare until it ran out. With the Bloc in power we would have no Canada as we know it today.
As a drug addict in recovery I am delighted as Steven Harper has said he will do away with stuff like the governemnt sanctioned shooting gallery known as the safe injection site. Maybe he'll free up some of that money for real solutions to the drug problem.
Go, Conservatives go

For those of you that like saying Harper will climb aboard the missile defense shield and the Liberals won’t here are a few tidbits from a news article, plus the link
In a new twist on government secrecy, Defence Department officials are now withholding information about the Pentagon's missile shield that is readily available on U.S. government websites while at the same time claiming the security of Canada could be harmed if the names of senior American officers treated to a taxpayer-financed reception more than a year ago are released.
He noted the Defence Department is in the process of renegotiating the North American Aerospace Defence Command (Norad) agreement with the U.S., discussions that missile defence opponents believe could provide a new opening for Canada to participate in the shield.
"This creates strong suspicions the Liberals are waiting for an opportunity to go back to the Americans on missile defence at a later date," said Mr. Staples, of the left-leaning Polaris Institute.
"You've got to wonder why they are so sensitive on releasing even basic information."
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=dd8471ef-e2e7-49f9-ad80-66ecfd69ec34

In spite of Gomery, Martin did have good fiscal management of the government on his side--until he and his cabinet tried to bribe Canadians with $20 billion in spending promises before the election started. Then his fiscal credibility was shot!

Layton had a rough start with Buzz Hargrove's strange endorsement of the NDP. I'm paraphrasing. "Vote NDP unless the Liberals are better in your riding." That's most of Canada for Liberals. Layton should have told voters that Buzz is free to support the Liberal if he wants. The NDP wants your support. Martin and Harper seemed to be singing from the same songbook almost every day when issues were discussed. Layton was off in his own direction and issues trying to "get results for people." I'm sending that quote to the Lake Superior State University 'Banished Word List' for 2007. I'll be taking a swig of beer every time I hear Layton mention in the second debate, "getting results." I do like how Harper co-opted Ed Broadbent's 'Ordinary Canadian' tag.

Harper, the dude in the cute cowboy outfit, has learned from his mistakes in the 2004 election. He has a daily agenda that maximizes media exposure to his Conservative Party's message. He took the difficult issue of same-sex marriage and talked about it first. Now he's talking about his five point plan that he wants to implement for Canada. I don't know what they are, but there's five points. I'm sounding like Homer Simpson.

Harper "won" the election a few days ago when he was speaking at a Toronto area riding. Behind him were sitting visible-minorities. That didn't happen with Preston Manning or Stockwell Day. Harper now has the broad support of Canadians. The only thing we'll need to know are the actual number of seats Harper's Tories will get.

Bob999 and your 3 friends: why not vote Conservative? That's who's behind the "green" party name which has become almost a brand label. Like, inter-changeable. Like a franchise. You think Green Party means environmental protection. It doesn't. Why kid yourselves?

It's awful to think that the price for a Canadian vote is $1.75. Which those old re-tread Socreds will get, not you. And sure as heck, not the environment.

Colin, I thought you explained that the defense shield was a dream. And that only the Torys represented a seat at the table. Now you claim the Liberals are talking. Which is it? Me thinks a lot of you folks allow the media to do your thinking. BTW... a handgun ban will dry up a market for the gun manufacturers. It's time they stopped getting rich from making dangerous toys.

All of you raise good points and quite frankly I don't know now how I'll vote. Hence I'll watch the "lack of debate" tonight and maybe it'll help.
The Green Party? It seems like a wasted vote. We really need a majority government with ethics and I don't see Liberals or Conservatives falling in that category.
Now if a party came along which would actually promise to get rid of the senate and also fire all patronage appointments made in the last 20 years (if they're still around) then I would beat a path to the polling booth.
Although firing patronage appointments would greatly reduce the work force in Quebec...

Does voting for Harper mean we can cash in on ENRON like scams just like the Republicans did in the USA?

Questions...

Did Martin hire John Kerry's campaign manager?

I wonder how Martin will answer the off-shore licencing thing tonight? And, really, does it need to be answered?

Will the 'Mulroney' history repeat itself if the Tories win?

barryjo: Harper's distaste for social infrastructure will create a lot more social problems and... unfortunately a lot more drug addiction.

Off shore shipping companies? Is there a rule against owning shares in foriegn companies? Many Canadians do, myself included.

Eddy
I never said the missile defence shield was a ‘dream”, only the particular proposal you were referring to.

You ignorance on firearms is quite vast and typical of those that wish to ban them. Canada is roughly 4% of the US production, so it won’t hurt anyone in the US, in fact most US companies avoid the hassle of exporting to Canada, because of the paperwork required from both sides of the border.
I’m guessing that 97% of the small arms businesses in Canada and the US are no more than 10 employees and going by the one's I know, it’s not a great way to get rich. They do it because they enjoy working on firearms and making components. Gunsmithing is in the top tier of precision machine work and requires close attention to detail. A great benefit to the industry has been the reduction in cost of computerized CinC lathes. A machine that used to cost $100,000 now cost $30,000 and most of the shops have 3-5 people and our family owned. The day of the large traditional firearm factory is long gone.

A handgun ban will do zip except suck up more public money. Studies by the VPD and the Ontario police (Project Gun Runner, buried by the Rae government because it told what they didn't want to hear) found that 94% and 85.5% of the firearms seized were smuggled into the country. The US is not going away and in fact is reducing their gun laws, so don’t be holding your breath.

I seriously suggest that you locate the nearest Rod and Gun club and arrange a tour, I think you will find that you will enjoy yourself and come away realizing that the LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

Sorry for shouting, but I am fed up with being blamed for the failures of Martin and the Mayor of Toronto.

Lynn -

With all due respect, I think barryjo has jad some unfortunate experiences to provide practical and meaningful insight.

Unless you are a recovering drug addict or a recovery specialist, I am pretty sure that his real-life experiences in dealing with recovery trump your theories.

Let's look at the United States. The States with the lowest drug use and drug related problems are also those who have the stiffest penalties.

Harper will send the peddlers to jail and implement stiffer policies. What is clear is that our Liberal policies towards drugs (including these shooting gallery), have done nothing to stem drug use.

Prosecution, penalties and education. Three planks outlined in the Tory platform.

Eddy
You might find this site interesting
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/031001/d031001a.htm

If their accounting is genuine, which I doubt, we have to remember they've liquidated most of our assets!!! Please. They are the worst managers in our history and that says a lot!

This poll is not real. It may even be a Liberal leaked skewed one. What are the Cons going to say, no, we're not winning? Also, a lot of people, myself included are pretty cranky we have to go back to the polls when we want a minority gov't influenced by the NDP and if the poll is correct may be reflecting that. A far cry from actually marking X at the ballot box.

If the poll does prove to be true, it's heavily ironic, that really Quebec, by voting Lib or NDP are in a postition to actually safe Canada.

Also, if you want Deibold voting machines with no paper trail and proven unreliable and easy to tamper with, vote Conservative.

mabellbc

regarding longer prison sentances and such, taken from the link above:

Almost two-thirds of the 523 people accused of committing homicide in 2002 had a criminal record.

Of those with a criminal record, three-quarters had been previously convicted of a violent offence, including 8 for homicide. One-half of all homicide victims aged 12 and over also had a criminal record.

...save Canada. Because if the libs get a majority, or the Cons get in, we are all in trouble, including those thinking they're going to benefit from a Con gov't. Which is no gov't at all, but a hostile corporate take-over.

Hey mabellbc,

Where are those massive tax cuts that you said Cambell made? Mine were eaten up with increased MSP. Or did you actually mean to say massive tax cuts for the rich and nothing for the middle class?

Well Colin, I have more training in firearms than most people outside of the military. And where do YOU draw the line on weapons ownership? Gun turrets on your car? Bomb making materials? Zip guns? I get the point about criminals not co-operating but public attitudes should really change because some products are just bullschit and merely fullfill an illusion of importance. Your guns will not save you from a violent confrontation of a defensive nature. They will most likely compound your problem. As an assault weapon, however, the gun is very useful. So why tolerate them? People are making money off the deaths of our children, despite all the PR of your gun club.

"They've heard enough of "liberalism" which doesn't seem to hold anyone accountable for anything any more."

Come on... Canadians have never been ones to let the government decide what is morally appropriate for them, that's the American way.
QUite frankly, if someone is weak enough to need the government direct their values for them, they have enough problems.
I am now HOPING the Cons get in with a minority government, that way they can mess up the nation for a bit and be brought down.
Then the Canadian public will be reminded of why they were kicked out the last time and we won't see them for another decade.

1. I'm always amazed at how many people think that my opinions reflect what I personally want to happen.

2. Like a couple of the above I'm voting Green to give another $1.75 to them so they can continue, probably unsuccessfully but that's irrelevant, to get people who vote for the other parties to force their parties to face the grim environmental scene we face, a scene that is worsening by the day.

Rafe

mabellbc: I'm sure Harper will luv establishing a prison-industrial complex as a solution to social problems...

Amerika....here we come:

"In 1995, the most recent year we can use for comparative purposes, the overall incarceration rate for the United States was 600 per 100,000 population, including local jails (but not juvenile institutions). Around the world, the only country with a higher rate was Russia, at 690 per 100,000. Several other countries of the former Soviet bloc also had high rates-270 per 100,000 in Estonia, for example, and 200 in Romania-as did, among others, Singapore (229) and South Africa (368). But most industrial democracies clustered far below us, at around 55 to 120 per 100,000, with a few-notably Japan, at 36-lower still. Spain and the United Kingdom, our closest "competitors among the major nations of western Europe, imprison their citizens at a rate roughly one-sixth of ours; Holland and Scandinavia, about one-tenth."

"The number of people in prison, in jail, on parole, and on probation in the U.S. increased threefold between 1980 and 2000, to more than 6 million, and the number of people in prison increased from 319,598 to almost 2 million in the same period. This buildup has targeted the poor, and especially Blacks. In 1999, though Blacks were only 13 percent of the U.S. population, they were half of all prison inmates. In 2000, one out of three young Black men was either locked up, on probation, or on parole. The military-industrial complex of the 1950s, with its Cold War communist bogeyman, has been replaced by a prison-industrial complex, with young Black "predators" serving as its justification."

For far too long I have read responses discrediting the Green Party for invalid reasons. The voter should ALWAYS vote for he or she wants to represent the constituancy in the House of Commons. By voting Green, you will send a clear message to the traditional parties that old-school politics and unfounded promises do nothing for the individual. Our system is allowing large corporations and unions to finance and support the parties that will meet their needs. The system is undemocratic and more often than not, Canadian voters vote against the government or party and not FOR it. This is the reason that so many potential voters simply chose to stay home and have given up on the system altogether. The GPC is the only party to promote and demand a more democratic system with concrete policies:185. Create a broad-based, result-driven public consultation process to determine the form of proportional representation that best serves Canadians for the next federal election.
186. Support the legislative changes required to introduce the proportional representation electoral system recommended by the public consultation.
187. Introduce fixed election dates permitting political stability and fair elections.
188. Require a mandatory series of open leaders’ debates during an election organized by an independent agency such as Elections Canada.
189. Move from the current partial ban on corporate and union donations to political parties to a full ban on such donations, modeled on Québec and Manitoba provincial legislation.
190. Reduce the mandatory $1,000 candidate deposit to encourage more Canadians to participate in the democratic system.
191. Lower the voting age to seventeen.
So, before making bold statements that bare no valid truths, I encourage you all to educate youself and view the GPC platform (greenparty.ca) for real long-term solutions and a more democratic proportional electoral system.
Thank you Rafe for understanding this.

Well Eddy
All I plan to do with my pistol is shoot targets, so I am not worried about getting into a gunfight. Do you know in the UK where handguns are banned you own a tank and drive on the public roads? In fact I know quite a few people here in Vancouver that own various ex-military armoured vehicles with turrets and such, without the streets dripping in blood. I also do not get a “illusion of importance” from owning firearms, but I do get a lot of enjoyment from being able to get a good grouping and finally getting my trigger finger to pull and not bend.

Your response indicates to me that you have become frustrated that the indicated facts do not support your position. If you are really concerned about carnage on our streets, you will be forgetting about firearms and asking hard questions as to why our governments encourage the building and marketing of cars that exceed the maximum posted speed limit and don’t also come with programmable speed governors so parents can limit the speed of their kids cars, despite most of the technology already being built into the cars.
Your position is purely emotive, you intend on limiting peoples rights and enjoyment purely on your own bias, gee whatever happened to the culturally sensitive society that we are supposed to be, or does that just apply to “political correct activates as approved by the party”?

Ditto jamez. I've been beating this drum too.

But a Con majority is scary. It'll be like Campbell without the compassion ;) Or Grant Devine with a bigger sandbox.

The Alliance wouldn't have had a chance without the name change. Funny place Canada.

RRG, we already dealt with this point. mabellbc agreed that fed transfers to BC were higher than the surplus.

Not true, the NDP has been pushing this cart for decades. Before there ever was a Green party. You may want to look up speeches by Ed Broadbent. PR has been a long-time NDP goal as well as abolishing the useless and expensive Senate.

The NDP has also long wanted to level the playing field when it comes to money too.

Colin, to get a good grouping, you need to control your breathing, keep your body relaxed (avoiding shaking) and squeeze, not jerk, the trigger. I was assigned to coach other recruits in the army. Amazed me how many guys there flinched when they fired. The FN back then had a little bit of kick but nothing to be worried about.

Lynn,
Prison overcrowding is caused by people committing crimes. The states has a policy of letting people legally run around with guns in their pockets so, hence, the explosive crime rates.
Tell me what would you rather have, violent criminals in jail doing a majority of their time or have violent criminals doing 1/3 of their time and being out on the street, in most cases a danger to society.
I don't say lock them up and throw the key away but let them do a proportionate amount of the time to rehab and learn some new ways of dealing with old behaviours.
My company was profiled on BCTV Global news about 10 months ago and one of my employees they interviewed was a convicted killer who did thirty years but was rehabilitated. He did the work to rehab himself and deserved a chance and has been in the community for over three years now and is doing well. In his case he was a young man caught up the drug scene who at some point in his life deserved a second chance after committing a murder.
Bottom line is the prisons in the states are privately owned and are all profit orientated so they become work camps for the owners of the facilities. I don't see that happening here anytime soon, no matter which party is in power we won't become a prison indutrial complex.

Oh Yeah? It sounds like the Con social policy is to cut social programs so people become more desperate and then commit more crime and provide the prison industry with a market! Their motto is, build more jails and the people will come!

Lately in the US dangerous prisoners in 'high security prisons'have been escaping becasue the private prisons are so understaffed. And, they only feed them twice a day! This is okay with some, not me.

I agree with stiffer sentences for violent crimes, although not mandatory ones. I believe in law in order. (one reason I dislike the neo-cons who think they're above the law) I don't believe in being barbaric.

barryjo: I say make prisons less necessary than more necessary by addressing social problems before they lead to violent crime.

But, I agree with you, rehabilitation is a vital factor in changing criminal behavior...as your heartening story about your employee reveals. Rehabilitation usually involves someone caring enough about your life, valueing you as a person, so that you begin to value yourself and make a change for the better. That is basically what a strong social infrastructure does as well...it values humanity and encourages compassion in us all.

If you read enough about Mr. Harper and the Calgary School crew that back him, you will see that his intention is to dismantle the idea of governance in Canada and consequently our valuable social infrastructure that is an integral part of it.

If you are truly interested in rehabilitation, then you must consider that strong social programs are rehabilitory in nature...they help to address the inequities most of us are born into ...the often sheer chance factor of our lives... who our parents are, where we are born in this world etc....and how that evolves into the circumstances that determine our lives.

I've read many of your posts, barryjo. Congratulations on what you have overcome.

Lynn,
Thanks for the kind words, I do believe that strong social programs are rehabilitory and are key to helping those who are less fortuante.
The problem is that there is no accountabilty checks in place and there are so many programs that get tons of government funding and don't do much to alleviate the problems they were designed to address.
The way of the future in this area is social enterprise ventures where a business concept is married to a charitable cause with one aspect never superseding the other. Any revenue created by the business goes back into the charitable cause, whether it be homelessness addiction or whatever.
I am working on such a venture at this time and it will be up and running in March or April and we will be offering employment training and the profits from the business will all go to further our causes. It is much like we are already doing but it will have a retail component. And the beauty is that it doesn't cost Joe/Jill taxpayer anything and helps those less fortunate.

Does anyone know just what rightwingnut that posts on thetyee is Steve Hopkins? (the anti-teacher, anti everything publicly funded self appointed critic?) A Google will fill anyone in on this poster and his alter-ego Sue Halstead with her rather inane site over in
Cumberland.

How do you know they're on the Tyee?

If so it could be only one --)

Bob999 and your 3 friends: why not vote Conservative? That's who's behind the "green" party name which has become almost a brand label. Like, inter-changeable. Like a franchise. You think Green Party means environmental protection. It doesn't. Why kid yourselves? -BC Mary
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Certainly the Green Party of Canada isn't the Sierra Legal Defense fund, but Green Policy is much more than that. Its an overall focus on long term sustainability, and it uses a policy of tax shifting rather than grants or across the board tax cuts as one of its main ways of meeting their objectives. It also has strong policy on environmental protection.

It also is the only party that is focussing on stronger rehabiliation rather just a crime and punishment platform. Even the NDP has got carried away with this notion.

It believes in shifting government funding from federal programs to municipal ones in areas such as social housing and childcare. So that regional specific programs can be come up. (Us regionalists and libertarians trust our municipla governments more than our federal ones) The NDP and the Liberals want federal programs which would give just as much $ to bureacrats as to spaces.. The conservatives are offering tax credits that only serve those who can already afford those programs.

It is strongly socially liberal, pushing drug reforms, womens rights.(the tories are quite different)

It is pro-business, but only if business is acting in an ecologically friendly way. The tories are pro any business, the Liberals are pro business only when its politcally expedient, (huge grants to car compaies and bombardier) and the NDP generally believe that business is inherently bad and should be taxed to pay for social programs without having a greater picture.

--------

Mind you, you still have to look at your local candidate and the local situation. If you live in a riding where the result is likely to be real close and there is a stark difference between the two forerunners, then principle may not be practical. But your vote makes a statement and will make a difference. If you live in the Eastern Fraser Valley, or Rural BC, or Alberta, you will really waste your vote more if you vote for a candidate who doesn't have a chance of winning and doesn't stand for anything.

If you live in Vancouver Center and have a choice between one nutcase and another, then a sane young Green candidate like Jared Evans may be the only way to vote for without being ashamed of your vote.

hey dangrice
Didn't you ever make a mistake?
SR has always been there fighting for his constuents!
Me thinks maybe you are thinking he's gay

What about justice, Barryjo?

It won't cost the taxpayer ifif it is sucessful retail operation. If it's not, you'll go broke. Oh, and if you're getting gov't funding for this contract, or the one that maintains your business, you can kiss those contracts goodbye within the year, if Harper gets in. Do you really think neo-con Campbell would be providing the money for the meager social service contracts that he is if fellow neo-con Harper and crew were prime-minister? Oh, and now we have neo-con Sullivan too. lol You'd better keep a reserve in the bank, Barryjo. This is what is so sad about a lot of conservative voters who have no idea how they will be impacted.

If it's not, you'll go broke. Unless of course, you are receiving gov't funding. And, if you are, your program is no different than a program which fundraises in any number of ways, or gets an outright grant to help others.

Re Svend Robinson, any riding would be fortuate to have him as their MP. He works hard for his constituents and is the kind of MP our system was supposed to have when it was designed because he truly represents the people.

BC Dude. So is the Green Party candidate. Whoop de dee.

I have made plenty of mistakes in my life and have done plenty of things which are stupid. What he did had no reasonable explanation, not was it just a matter of poor judgement because he had too many drinks. I don't know what it was, but personally, if I want someone to represent me, I expect a much higher standard of them. Heck, if we ever elected a marijuana candidate, I would expect them not to show up to parliament stoned.

However, I have other issues with him. He has pulled off stupid acts throughout his career.

1) Suing the RCMP for having a rubber bullet go thorugh his pants when he was part of a crowd rushing a security fence.
2) Taking off a flack Jacket at a Foreign Military post.
3).. So on and so on

That being said, Svend is a great speaker and did a great job at the debates. I think he should keep active, but I don't think he should be going back into parliament at this time.

Really, Barryjo. Talk neo-con to the neo-cons, but when you go in the ballot box, mark NDP!

Correction, unless the late polling shows the riding race is btwn Harper and Martin, in which case vote for Martin.

I listened to the debate on the radio this evening and then watched some of the commentary on CBC and you would think that the pundents had heard a completely diferent debate than I did. Jack Layton was the winner, hands down. He was the only one that remained calm and sounded compitent throughout. What the hell was the leader of the "nation" of Quebec doing involved in a Canadian national debate. Martin and Harper came off sounding the same. Eager to fill the pockets of the rich. Who decided that education and daycare were issues in this electon? In my humble opinion, the immediate and continuous redistribution of wealth is the one and only issue. 10% of the population controls 90% of the wealth. I don't remember the exact numbers but there are well over a million children living in poverty in the country we like to call the "best". These mental migets are talking about tax breaks for the wealthy!!! The NDP are far too right wing for me but I'll hold my nose and vote for the local candidate in my riding. It's to bad we don't have a strong left wing party. Capitalism only works for that have it made already and if you take it to its logical end, one person ends up with all the wealth. Not the kind of system that works for the voter.

Redrivergirl,
I've been running a social enterprise venture now for twelve years without any government funding and its works quite well, thank you. All of my employees were the homeless and addicted and some of them (two right now) are living at my residence.
This new venture merely has a retail store component and as with all the ventures I peursue, they provide environmental solutions, diverting re-useable materials from landfills etc.
The beauty of social enterprise is that I don't have to rely on government financial handouts to help the less fortunate. I don't have to woryy about who gets elected in regards to continued funding etc.
I will vote for the Conservatives, however, and maybe all the waste put into the government sanctioned shooting gallery (aka safe injection site) and some of the other hundred something non profit programs on the DTES that rely on constant gov't funding and are a waste of time are scrutinized and replaced with some programs that provide real solutions down there. There are some good programs down there but there are a lot that are a waste of time and money.
The race has always been between Martin and Harper, barring something way out of left field Mr. Harper is the next PM of Canada, like it or not. I think Mr. Layton would have a chance if he wasn't so joined at the hip to unions, if he was the leader of the Conservatives the election wouldn't even be close.

If Harper form the next government, in the gret tradition of all succeeding parties, he will open the book, go "TSK!" and exclaim how he didn;t know they were in such bad shape, and will have to postpone all those jiicy promises.

Martin has had 12 years of breaks. Why should he have anymore? In the debate on Monday the 9th, he loudly exclaimed his acheivements, but when Jack asked him about a broken promise to send affordable AIDS vaccine to Africa, Martin answered that a Liberal government would give students $3000 a year.............'nuff said!

To those who say "How much harm can a a minority government do in the short terim?" please look south.

The pundits here in the USA, as in Canada, sold the American people on "change" following the Clinton "scandal." Mr. Bush's original campaign and Harper's are so alike as to think that Mr. Rove is Mr. Harper's campaign manager. Please look at the people Mr. Harper will employ in his government. Canada will not be the same for years. His minority government will be supported by the Bloc since their interests are best served in ensuring the worst possible scenario develops federally against the progressive interests of Quebec. Harper would not be brought down through a non-confidence vote with the Bloc supporting him. Bush, as Harper will, turned into his true self one day after his inauguration by signing his first order of business - an Executive Order banning the USA's huge financial contribution to the UN population fund due to his far right pro-life lobby. Hundreds of thousands of women in the third world have died due to this withdraw of funding. Under Bush, read Harper, the US, read Canada, will be a diminished nation. A few examples of Bush's America - the US now has the highest infant mortality rate of developed nations in the world. China's rate is much lower than the US.

The comments on prisons offered above are correct. We use prisons as social progams and housing. Over 80% of the individuals in prison are of color and are illerate with no hope for skills, or release or a life after release. The US spends $400 billion a year on prisons and the comment above about preventing crime is totally erroneous. There are no proven statistics to support that theory.

The US spends almost $1 trillion on defense spending every year yet our Social Security system (akin to the Canadian Pension Plan )is totally insolvent leaving millions of Americans without promised benefits. The US is $8.1 trillion in debt and 50 million Americans are without health care and millions more with just minimum benefits. All this while the US spends 10 billion a month in Iraq killing people and spreading terror.

Conservatives Vic Toews and Stockwell Day should scare the daylights out of Canadians in the likes of a John Ashcroft and Dick Cheney. Many of the most important decisions for Canadian decisions at home and abroad will be made by these individuals within cabinet and outside the purview of the House of Commons. Bush has done some of the worst damage by Executive Order. Canada will be totally identified with the USA. Bush will be the first to call Harper. Headlines in the USA's papers and FOX news will blare- "Canada Chooses to Move Right" "Canada Chooses Bush"

Canada is where we hoped for a future and have wiated for over 2 years in the immigraiton queue. We have been back and forth from sea to sea three times across your wonderful country - learing, listening, laughing, and wondering how wonderful place to be. A nation of diverse opinions and peoples that cares and uses taxes for health care and day care not war mongering. Waiting in the last queue for final approval with the election at the same time is almost to surreal to imagine. We had hoped to have Canadians say welcome as we landed as members of our new wonderful nation instead we believe that after Janaury 23rd we will be saying to Canada - "Welcome to The Empire."

'Re Svend Robinson, any riding would be fortuate to have him as their MP. He works hard for his constituents and is the kind of MP our system was supposed to have when it was designed because he truly represents the people.' and i thought it was too early to find the post of the year. only you lefty freaks could endorse a grand larcenist. but of course it was the first time and he really didn't mean to do it. in fact his hand just shot out involuntarily and slid the ring into his pocket. that's why he had priced them at a store 2 weeks earlier, and that's why he took it to his car and then came back to pretend he was still looking. what a bloody joke you people are to believe this shite!
jselsr; if the ndp are too right you need to move to france or sweden. don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
btw; mr. dithers is done. he looked desperate and therefore pathetic tonight. he changed the subject almost every time he spoke and he said the word 'values' at least a hundred times. what a clown.

Elliot, I used to be Svend's biggest fan, but I have to admit I agree with you about the guy. I think he should be in jail right about now and I didn't buy any of his story about stealing the ring because he was bi-polar.

I've known a few bi-polar people in my day and have studied the illness quite a lot, and I don't recall anything in the literature about there being a sudden impulse to steal a $50,000 ring for your spouse as a symptom.

Rafe,
Help me out here ( please don't make me flatter you ) I know you know that to hear The Prime Minister say that he is going to fundamentally change our Charter to delete the Notwithstanding Clause from it, is indeed radical.
Do you think he cleared this with Irwin Cotler ?, or did it on the fly.
To me it was frightening.
Iran is not a good model for Canada.

truman; what an insult to all who actually suffer from the condition. svend will do anything to cover his butt. shameful.

Perhaps not. But, if you are in the recycling bottle business, or something similar, you are relying on the close to destitution of others who are diving into the garbage bins to collect those bottles. Perhaps they wouldn't have to do that if our social services were what they used to be. So, is it really helping?

I remember a time Barryjo, when there weren't any homeless. Nor, were there people diving in the garbage bin at great risk to their health and to public health. What was different? Adequate social programs.

But, oh, that other great non-profit is on a bottle drive to 'help the needy', ignoring that it is taking the bottles right out from those needy.

You may be helping people, but don't assume it is the best way to help them.

Oh, and you better have a long lease, or own your building, cause if Harper etal get in, the slum landlords in the downtown east side are about to triple their investment.

Pilgrim, I totally hear you and agree with you.
I was thinking today to move to a blue state actually. We have some vested interest in Venice Ca. and San Diego. (but SD is pretty conservative) Or, perhaps, to a really progressive area here like the Sunshine Coast.

I was thinking how Vancouver is becoming dirty and unattractive. Another decade of this, we'll have nothing but high density buildings cramping us inside a decaying American style city. I can see it happening already.

There are parts of BC that will remain progressive within the community even if this terrible event comes to pass. (I really don't think it will We are bound to see some really strong ads pretty soon) Martin is bad enough, but at least with him, I think as things shift left in the US with all the scandals etc, he will too.

And, if I'm wrong, I'll have the (not very comforting) consolation of seeing the absolute shock that will come on most of the con supporters as it unfolds and they realize they aren't as self-sufficient as they imagine and even less 'free'.

The pundits here in the USA, as in Canada, sold the American people on "change" following the Clinton "scandal." Mr. Bush's original campaign and Harper's are so alike as to think that Mr. Rove is Mr. Harper's campaign manager. Please look at the people Mr. Harper will employ in his government. Canada will not be the same for years, wrote Pilgrim.

This is so true. It is exactly my fear...that Harper's Conservatives will be hard to remove once they get in....that they will stick like crazy glue....deviously fracturing this country with very calculated intention...operating under the guise that only their particular brand of crazy glue can continue to preserve and protect our now oh so fragile country... which has always been Bush and Co's fear-based controlling hand as well.

Will a Canadian Patriot's Act be soon in the making? All for own good, of course.

As Pilgrim says Canada will become a diminished nation.

That is a tough realization for Canadians.

But once again so very true and so very sad.

Listen, Elliot. It is true that one of the symptoms of bipolar isn't stealing. But, making very poor judgements based on euphoria is a symptom. Delusion and disordered thinking can also be. Cut him some slack. Even if turns out he was a compulsive shop-lifter, it is symptomatic of a mental health disorder.

Also, Campbell, could have killed someone and you all voted for him! And, he destroys and takes away from people. At least Svend Robinson, in spite of a few decisions I disagree with, is fighting for poor and disadvantaged people! Unlike Campbell etal, he's not stealing from the poor to give to the rich! Don't you think what he did to the health care workers who are working for half their former wage and benefits is stealing from them!

By decision, I am not talking about the ring. I'm talking policy.

Mr. Mair is right about the "X" factor. People want change and are tired of all the scandals--with Options Canada documents being published this Monday which show that the Federalists broke election rules in the 1995 Referendum. Even Auditor General Sheila Fraser wants to probe these documents. All we seem to get is more and more scandals.

The Liberals have their main base of support in Toronto and yet when this city recorded one of its highest rates of homicides in 2005, they did nothing until an innocent girl was killed shopping on Boxing Week--or a good 4 weeks into the campaign. Why didn't Martin act to increase penalties for possessing illegal handguns and semi-automatic weapons until then when he had 18 months in government to do so? It seems as if the Liberals are just out of touch--even with their base in Toronto let alone distant BC. They haven't armed our Canada Customs Border Guard agents--in fact they even closed several RCMP border detachments in Quebec as Duceppe noted in Monday's debate. This does nothing to stop gun smuggling into Canada from the US. Martin is like a weather wane who flip and flops on everything just to get votes. Last month, he stubbornly refused to apologise for the Chinese 'Head Tax' but now, with the polls showing a close contest, he suddenly changes his mind. This just insults minorities like the Chinese who have demanded an apology for years and increases people's cynicism of politicians. Is it any wonder only 60.5% of Canadians voted in 2004!

I say, If you want good Government, you have to either vote Conservative or NDP. Let Layton hold the balance of power and keep the Conservatives in check. Other than Mr. Mair, no one is seriously predicting a Harper majority and the Bloc are rock solid in Quebec. This puts Layton in the sweet spot. The Liberals, in contrast, must be kicked out of office until they have purged themselves of their culture of entitlement and kickbacks.
Regards.

And Campbell , could have killed someone, says redrivergirl.
You can't compare his indiscretion with say, something like Senator Kennedy the US silver spooned Democrat who left Mary Joe Kopechne to die in the river after he, in a drunken stupor, drove off a bridge and crashed into the river.
He scrambled out, upon reaching shore ran away.
Hid for awhile and then had to face the music.
I hope you know Mary Joe was his assistant, Mr. Kennedy was married.
He was drunk.
He should have been sent to jail.
Now, please compare Gordon Campbell to Senator Kennedy.

How, but for the grace of God, Ron?

Excellent red herring Ron. Perhaps a strawman arguement and an appeal to authority to finish the night off? Call it a Ron Erwin hat trick?

To er is human , to forgive is Divine. Is another cliche redrivergirl.
But I have used it both ways.
We all have.
Michael, Con is not evil. I can't ask you to buy this except by telling you that this is what I think we need at this time.
We can all start from scratch after this election.
God knows I don't have any big influence on events.

Redrivergirl
You are so wrong, we don't rely on the close to destitution of others and we don't run a bottle depot. We rely on those who are striving to become responsible and productive members of society by giving them a handup as opposed to a handout as they learn basic employment/life skills. We did a job at waterfront station last week and a homeless native fellow stopped me on the sidewalk and asked me about employment. I bought him a coffee and he told me he was living on the street and using drugs(heroin). I said we were all addicts in recovery and if he wanted to change I would give hime an opportunity. I gave him my card and he took it upon himself to find a place where he could do a resume, of sorts, and fax it to me. That shows desire of some degree on his part and now I have to work to see if we can keep that desire going and build on it.
You know absolutely nothing about who we are or what we do but you sit back and you judge.
You state there never used to be homeless people because we had adequate social programs. Once again you are miguided and should do some research. There are hundreds of social programs on the DTES today, more than ever and more popping up all the time, lack of social programs don't cause homelessness and addiction. Don't expect that programs and government dollars poured into poverty will alleviate it.
We as individuals have the power to make a difference. Someone believed in me, as broken, wounded and damaged as I was, and now I have a debt to society (years of welfare etc.) to do the same for others in return. And the power of the human spirit never ceases to amaze me when someone believe in us.
Tax dollars, government handouts or political parties don't dispense unconditional love and thats what is missing. More of the have's with genuine concern for the have not's is what is needed, more volunteerism and concern for the less fortunate. In an increasingly fast paced and seemingly self centered society it seems unlikely to happen. It's easier to sit in our houses and like the Redrivergirl does, sit back and blame the government of the day.

But Rafe, Rafe, Rafe! See, you're trying to convince us that the Green Party means "green" as in environmentally green. You know that the Greenies you'll be voting for, aren't that kind of green at all. Didn't you know that 3 "Green" candidates showed up at old Preston Manning's Wine & Cheese party last Sunday in Victoria? Even Andrew Lewis from Salt Spring Island, considered to be green green?

The hypocrisy! Lifting the green label off another party and sticking it onto some of the worst neo-conservative retread bible-thumping zealots is just not OK, Rafe. It's only a disguise. A false front. I think that you know this. Which leaves me agape at your own hypocrisy. Will the old Socred/Reform/CRAP/BCLiberals soon be flying the Greenpeace flag?

Please don't tell me that you're doing this for our own good, to make us think (as you think!). That's the last battle cry of a true glassy-eyed rightwing zealot.

redriver; listen sweetie, you're wrong, and you're supporting a crook. svendo doesn't fight for the poor and the less fortunate. svendo fights for himself. he's the ultimate opportunist. he always has been and he always will be. he even tried to turn his thievery into an opportunity.

Frank
Thanks the advice, also did lots of time with the FN, target shooting with a pistol hinges more on the trigger finger and grip than anything else, my instructor made me cut a pencil to the same length as the trigger and I just practiced squeezing it until I was able to pull straight back as opposed to curling the finger, makes a big difference, it’s the reason I love shooting, it takes all your concentration to do well, it’s also an equal opportunity sport, we have men, women and handicapped shooter at my club all competing together.

I think Svend is a complete mystery. We don't know why he stole the ring because he lied to us and never went to trial so we could find out if it was a planned act or not.

He started out by blaming his horrible hiking accident, then it was stress.

I don't think it's a good policy for intelligent people to start accepting lies from the people we like any more than lies from the people we don't like.

Actually, kleptomania DOES make more sense, redrivergirl. But if he had admitted THAT he wouldn't be running for office now, I don't think.

Colin, I never did any pistol shooting in the Forces. It was all FN and SMG. Loved the FN though.

Agreed

Barryjo, You don't know at all what I know, or don't know about addiction or the social problems in the DTES and other skid rows.

Perhaps you'd be surprised to know I don't agree with shooting galleries. I don't agree with enabling others to kill themselves. I do agree with the needle exchange. I see addiction as a health issue. People are dying from it. We've had this conversation before so there's no point in going into our respective beliefs about it.

Does cutting social programs help people? If you weren't able to get welfare you may not even be alive right now. Without a compassionate welfare worker at times, your life may have had a different trajectory. You may feel it enabled you, but you can't know if it both enabled you and saved your life until you could get clean.

Addiction isn't a moral failing. It's an illness.

I'm not judging you, I'm trying to present another perspective to you. If you notice, I said, if you run a bottle exchange. It's galling to me that someone (like so many cons) received so much help from others then want to deny that help to others.

Your not the HP. You don't know what is the best way to help other people.

You have your opinons and that is fine. You are doing work that I'm sure benefits others. That's great. My caution to you, is to understand that there are different types of help that works for different people. And, that you are voting for a party that plans on eliminating social programs. Not just the ones you don't like. Naturally, that is your right. Just do it with your eyes open.

I'm just saying take a second look.

Frank
I agree the FN was a fine piece of kit and was sad to see it go.

Ok, so barryjo feels we shouldn't have social programs, they enable addiction and laziness.

And social programs don't alleviate homelessness or starvation, cool.

So no more handouts to the poor, instead we all volunteer on the DTES. Not to help, mind you, just encourage. I'm sure that'll work.

Are there no workhouses?

Out of curiousity Colin, what is the standard weapon now? I remember the FN was going to be replaced by an American thing that fired .556 but that was so long ago I imagine even that has been replaced by now eh?

Cutting social programs is a mugs game. You may think you are saving but instead you are transfering the expense to police, courts and gaols. When homeless poeple occupy parks there is the clean-up and lost tourist dollars. Not to mention the lowering of the quality of all our lives because we don't feel safe and we avoid enjoying said parks because of the homeless.

It is annoying to think we would pay people to sit around but I would rather that than think these bored people would be breaking into my home or car to get by.

Not everyone starts from the same starting line in this race called life.
It is impossible to compare what one is able to achieve in their life with another. There are too many factors. Perhaps, because of factors that are not readily seen some addicts can get clean and go on to function in society. Others can get clean, but can't cope with the stresses of being in a competitive worlds. The reasons for these differences are things not seen, such as abuse during childhood and within that, when in the child's development that abuse occurs. The results of that abuse will be different depending on external factors as well, such as whether the child has other supports in their home and community and their constitution. That is why we can't judge other people compared to ourselves. Also, clearly, we tend to negate the help we receive in life and attribute our successes to our own ability, while negating factors that can limit other people.

It also is about us as human beings and as a society. Who are we? Are we individually so bereft of compassion that we will not care for those unable to care for themselves, even when we don't understand why they cannot? Are we collectively so poor that we can't afford to care for them? Has the pursuit of happiness we're importing become the pursuit of money above all other values? We have become very inured to the suffering of others in the last four years. And, starting before that.

'Tough love' can work. But, what I see too often is the 'tough' part, completely lacking the 'love'.

Pilgrim said,

Before you begin to think that you have finally found 'Nirvana' and all your worldly problems will be solved should you be granted immigration status (hope you have some 'social' credits to your name or you just may be out of luck), know full well that Canada is simply "the best of a bad lot" (and not even that). Not much better than the U.S. when it comes to government corruption and freedom of the press. Some Canadians even believe that, as long as the economy appears to be going good, then what's wrong with a LITTLE corruption.

Frank it was the C7, a Canadian built version of the US M16 but a far better piece of kit, it also replace the SMG with a Carbine version of the C7 and the C2 was replaced by the C9. The Browning Hi-power pistol still soldiers on, I think they have about 200,000 in reserve. They were made in 1944. Although they are slowly being replaced by the Sig P226.

Here is a link that will describe the equipment in use today, although I take some of their recommendations for future equipment with a grain of salt:

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101sm-rifles.htm

You will notice that the Lee-Enfield is still an issue rifle, for the Rangers not bad for a rifle invented almost 100 years ago.

Other equipment

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-0army.htm

Official DND site:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/home_e.asp

Frank and Redrivergirl,
I didn't once mention cutting all social programs. There are quite a few that do really good work. Many of them, however, are ineffective in acheiving their missons and goals partly because there is no checks and balances put in place to monitor there perfomance. There should be some accountability for the tax dollars that go to non profits. Look at the finacials for some of them and you would see what I mean.
I believe in good social programs but I also believe they don't take the place of individual volunteerism. What I did say was "don't expect that programs and government poured into poverty will alleviate it". I should have used the word eradicate instead of alleviate, I do concede some good comes from some of the programs.
Redrivergirl, you are correct one can never judge others compared to themselves. I don't believe in tough love, I believe in unconditional love which in my opinion is the ability to seperate the person from the behaviour, always loving the person but not necessarily the behaviour. Sometimes that involves a kick in the pants, so to speak, and sometimes a hug and a word of encouragement.
I, for sure, don't have all the answers I just think if we would do more out of the goodness of our hearts the world would be a better place.

My problem with this election is that there is no party that supports all my causes! I would like to pick some NDP, some Lib, some Conservative promises and then happily vote for that platform.

Instead you're left thinking "strategically" -- which is dishonest, not to mention tedious.

Redrivergirl,
You wrote "if you weren't able to get welfare you might not be alive right now".
Actually most of my overdoses were on welfare day. Talk to a fireman and he will tell you thats the way it is generally on welfare day, more overdoses, more everything. Talk to a cabbie same thing, most addicts are riding in cabs and eating take-out.
I call it the "king for a day" syndrome. Actually for myself and many others it was always king for a few hours and then it was back to doing what I got to do to stay high till next welfare day.

Pilgrim...
What you say is very interesting. I wonder if Paul Martin has employed John Kerry's former Campaign manager - and last night's debate didn't help his cause.
Does anyone really care about the "notwithstanding clause"? Incidentally, it means that our parliament can override a supreme court decision. In the U.S., a supreme court decision is the final word - and why Martin feels this is an important issue is beyond me.
I feel Martin has done a good job however that doesn't mean much to the voting public. All we can hope for is that Harper isn't as much of a disaster as Mulroney was.

Barryjo..

WONDERFUL COMMENT!!! You should send this to MacLeans...

barrygo

I slung beer for a bit in a small town, I too remember “welfare Wednesday” and the term “King for a day” is bang on. I remember seeing a woman whacking her husband over the head with a rolling pin because he just blew most of the welfare check on buying beer for his buddies, I made sure I took my time dialling the police. Also we had a policy not to cash family allowance checks at the bar, which used to piss people off.

Campbell, Klein, Harper et al luv volunteerism because they get free labour.

And that is not a kick at the many wonderful volunteers out there... it is just the truth at how volunteerism is now being used by the neo-cons.

Look at our schools - services and funding are cut - so parents (volunteers) are having to assume roles our once proud school system funded. Parents are being worn out and taken advantage of and teachers are having to contribute their own money where resources our now scarce because of government underfunding. That is a disgrace.

How can you be proud of a system like that?

The same thing is happening in our medical system and social welfare. Volunteers are being used simply because our governments have stolen our taxdollars from our social services in order to fund their own self-interests.

The problem with dismantling social programs is they don't bounce back when people finally wake up and realize how crucial and needed they really are...they take a long, long time to restore. It's all too late by then. Look at FEMA and New Orleans.

Yammer, you are not alone.

I too remember “welfare Wednesday” and the term “King for a day” is bang on, wrote Colin.

Self-righteous poppycock!

Wonder why someone would blow all the money they have in the world on booze?

Probably someone with lots of caring people around him/her, lots of job prospects, happy childhood, loving parents, no history of alcohol abuse in family, no fateful accidents that cripple or maim, future looks bright, big, big light shining at the end of their tunnel, right?

I

Of course, wealthy people with money, never act that way. Yeah, right... "Corporate Welfare Monday - Sunday."

And by the way, never been on welfare in my life...just hate the hypocrisy of the phrase "Welfare Wednesday."

I didn't once mention cutting all social programs.

But, Harper in partnership with Campbell and Sullivan would.

There is accountability and if you know as much as you claim about non-profits, you know that.

And, who gets to chose what the person needs, a kick in the pants or a hug? You?

You need to remember, Barryjo, social programs help poor people who are not addicts and who do not live in the DTES. They help the 80 year old senior with home help and no family. Oh, that's right, the neo-con Campbell admin's response to that was to tell their workers to tell that senior to ask her neighbour to give her a bath! They help the parents of disabled children. They helpe you and I and every single Canadian whether directly or indirectly in that we can (mostly) walk down the street without getting murdered for our wallet!

Oh, and Barry? When you got clean, the next day did you open your business? Or, did you rely on social programs until you got your act together?

On the skids it isn't often called "Welfare Wednesday", it's more commonly referred to by most as "Mardi Gras". That is the term for the day the government releases the money each month, it says a lot about where the majority of the money goes.

Colin, a 'king' for a day lives on more than 500 dollars in one day! I bet the increased security detail Cambell requires becuase of his anti-citizen policies cost more than 500 a day!

But, your bar just sold the guy the alcohol did it not? Some higher ground.

You are so right, Lynn. And, labour provided primarily by women!

You're a phony, Barryjo. That's what I think.

When I think of the Campbell gov't having the social workers I pay for with my taxes tell a senior to get her neighbour to give her a bath, I could horse whip you all down main street, Myself.

I won't shed any tears when the chickens come home to roost and some of you end up in jail, just like what is happening now in the US! And, it will happen here too, thanks to the RCMP!

And, maybe by then, instead of the 3 meals like it is here, it will be like the US private prisons and be two maggot filled meals a day. That's what you all are working so hard to achieve.

Is Paul Martin using John Kerry's former campaign manager?
Last night's debate certainly didn't help his cause.
Does anyone really care about the "notwithstanding clause", which, I understand, means that our parliament can override a supreme court decision. In the U.S., a supreme court decision is the final word - and why Martin feels this is an important issue is beyond me.

Whether or not our PM has done a good job seems irrelevant. To the voting public the Libs have been running the show for just too long. And, in the process, we've allowed ourselves to be overtaxed.

I'm hoping that Harper isn't the disaster that Mulroney was - particularly in patronage and selling off our country.

right on, redrivegirl,

After awhile, under Harper, they'll probably just forget the pretension of an actual meal and just serve the maggots alone. Perhaps with a very small dollop of cream sauce on very special occasions. Like July the Fourth.

Ease up red girl. "Mardi Gras" isn't an invention of the neocons, it really happens. I was a social worker and I saw it, and it's easy to see it yourself. The taxis are full, the liquor stores put on extra staff. It's hardly stigmatizing the poor to note that some people in chronic poverty blow their limited dough as soon as they get it. If you don't see much of a future for yourself, it's hard to get into the habit of saving money.

Anyway, back to Martin's break. This whole election was gonna go against him from the start. The only chance was that Harper would do something that annoyed a bunch of people, like Stockwell riding around in his Speedo. There's still a chance, I guess.

this is how you get treated in the states at the age of 94. E's father passed away last night, peacefully in his sleep. He was 94 and had been in failing health for quite some time. He had been in the hospital and they sent him home because his body was shutting down and there was nothing they could do for him and Medicare wouldn't pay for further care. E's sister Mary had been looking after him in her home for about 3 years and that is where he passed away.
That's it for now, we will keep in touch..................Love Y'all.. Yeah something to look forward to under the Conservatives.

I don't dispute this, Yammer. What I take issue with is using this as an excuse to undermine social programs and to scapegoat the poor in order to rob the public purse.

I also object to the programs that would be cut that offer the smallest amount of support to our seniors and disabled affording them the tiniest bit of dignity, in this, our rich and abundant country.

Lynn and Redriver

Time to hang out with the other side for a bit, “Welfare Wednesday” may not be PC, but it’s a reality and a term used by the people picking up the checks. I have known lots of people on welfare, some worked hard to scrap by and give their kids lots of love and I was able to help a couple get decent jobs and get off welfare. I also know others who drank their check away the first 2 nights and then begged for money to get through. If they were an addict, then they would get their fix and often be robbed of the rest while high. Newsflash not everyone on welfare is a saint and not everybody on welfare started out poor, abused or other. Some are just lazy and others abuse the system. Those types I used to hate.

What pissed me off about welfare is that they “Punished” people for working. They should have had a program that allowed a person to start working and still qualify for the benefits for a period of time afterwards. Often with the loss of the benefits, it was not worth getting off welfare, in particular if you were a single mom.

As far as selling the booze, once they cashed the check somewhere else, we had no other choice than to serve them if they weren’t drunk. In fact it would have been discriminatory and illegal to do. So spare me your righteous.

Redrivergirl,
You are entitled to your opinion, I am only concerned about one judgement of my character and what I do while I'm on this planet and I hope I have to wait for quite a while to find out what that is.
You can take anything you want out of context and make an argument, what part of " there are quite a few (social programs)that really work" didn't you get.
Anyways, we all have opinions and you are entitled to yours, it's great to live in a country where we can express them without fear of retribution.

Barryjo, I'm sorry I said I thought you were a phony.

It was uncalled for and I do not know your real character.

Redrivergirl,
We all say things in the heat of debate that, perhaps, we wish we hadn't. I appreciate the apology. All the best.

A question to the masses...

Before laughing at what is an obvious statement, hear me out. I think it fair to say that most people do not trust politicians (I said no laughing!).

All politicians say that they are different, that we need to put integrity back into governemnt, restore the public trust etc..

My question is, how does one determine who is in fact genuine vs not? I have heard many say that it is necessary to change the system first. However, you need to get the "real deal" in there first, in order to do so. A bit like the Chicken vs the Egg argument...

Harper says this, Martin Says that, Layton continues to sermon, and can any one really believe what they say?

What say you?

NDP all the way maybe we can hold the hammer again!
10 billion corporate tax break what for, just look @ their profits oil 70 billion 1st qtr!

Pilrim:

You are making the assumption that Duceppe really wants out of Canada. I don't think he does. Being first and foremost a politician, he has dealt himself a good hand, and is running with it. Furthermore, The Bloc's policies are more NDP-ish than conservative. I think The Bloc and The NDP will "team up" to keep whoever forms the government completely in line.

Unless of course, our skewed FPTP system produces a majority (which is entirely possible, regardless of the polls and pundits - remember Mulroney's second term?) rendering 8 weeks of speculation just so much hogwash.

redrivergirl:

. My California cousin (San Fransisco) says that southern California is more symathetic with the red states. There is a general movement of population from southern to northern Calif. and a rising tension over same, as southern Cal. is zip-zip, whereas northern Cal. is still harbouring vestiges of Haight-Ashbury.....

Colin: My last word on this one. I don't care about political correctness, nor do I think all people on welfare are saints.

The problem with all this "Welfare Wednesday" and "boozing their cheque away" labelling, is that a number of other people (lawyers, teachers, loggers, plumbers, doctors, social workers etc...yup, the whole gamut of human beings) do the same thing on Wednesdays... and on other days of the week, that is, they blow all their money, too,... gamble and drink it away as well.

It is not just people in chronic poverty that blow all their dough as soon as they get it.

They just aren't being so closely watched and scrutinized... so they don't receive the patronizing attitude that comes with "welfare territory".

People from all income strata spend their money foolishly.

You'd cash that logger's cheque and I doubt very much if you'd confront him as to how he's spending his own money.... even though you may not approve of how he is spending it.

Have any of you thought what Canada will be like if by some chance Harper gets a majority goverment where 90% of his MP'S are evangelical fundamentalist Christians.

Our other fundamentalist whack bar in the news, Mr Bin Laden has had to hijack airplanes in a effort to establish his religious state. In Canada the land of the 5 year majority government with absolute power and the not withstanding clause Stephen bin Harper and his fundamentalist chorus line has had only to hijack a political party and fool a large bunch of silly voters to get his crack at a religious state.

As for morals what the liberals have done with adscam etc is the moral equivalent of stealing your lawnmower while you were out of town. Stephen Harper and his evangelicals in hijacking Conservative party have committed
the moral equivalent of stealing your wife. Not a felony like the lawnmower or adscam but certainly a far more disgusting immoral act.

The fundamentalists control 90% of the conservative party riding associations and certainly 90% of active party members come from this group. Last May, Party nominations meetings were opened up for 1 week announced only to the faithful and closed a week later with religious homey's winning 90% of nominations. Belinda quit that Monday.

Harper has been so successful at hiding his true agenda that most of the 37% silly fools don't realize, these MP's have their first obligation to their prayer and preacher fevered impression of the Lord's will. Legal abortion will be gone in the first month.

We've complained before about our MP's representing Ottawa to us. This pack of zealots will be representing the Lord to us. As for the threat of losing the 5 year away reelection - the Lord will provide.

Look at the website of Russ "The Deacon" Hiebert in White Rock http://www.russhiebert.ca. Here is a man who owes his nomination to stacking the riding nomination meeting with supporters sent from the pulpit of the Boulder Colorado based Alliance Church. In his campaigning for the nomination he stated that sitting MP Val Meredith was unsuited to be a Member of Parliament because she was not joined in holy matrimony by her significant other. Yet on his website the only clue to his religious wack bar ideals is found by "Googling" his California alma mater.

Stockwell the foreign minister in waiting who believes that Earth was formed 6000 years ago ,that evolution is utter nonsense and man walked with dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden has been told in no uncertain terms to shut up.
Check out http://www.stockwellday.com and try to dig anything about these born again religious beliefs from his website.

Stephen Bin Harper's campaign strategy culled so successfully from his parties main branch -the George Bush Republicans- has been to make campaign speechs about secular matters like crime and fiscal responsability while hiding his true agenda.

And the useless Canadian press, having no investigative reporters left on staff have let him do it.

Lets hope the voters don't take a chance on a majority government held by religious zealots.

Thanks, Barryjo.

Hmm, my impression is that the terminator might make it appear so, but California is still a solid blue state. He lost all his initiatives. Venice and Los Angeles is progressive. Venice is almost radically so. You have to pay tenents three months rent to move. San Diego is very staid, but they have their progressives too.

California has some similarities to Canada in their social programs for poor people. Although, because of health care we are still at the front. They are undergoing huge cutbacks at UCLA etc too.

But, this is from my outside perspective. I know it has become more conservative than it was and it is difficult to take when it is in one's own backyard, which is why I made the comment. It's less painful to be as the Romans in Rome.

Very good point, Lynn!

Thanks for sharing that, Seth.

I think Focus on the Family type groups used to be illegal in Canada weren't they?

It's all very odd.

Redrivergirl,
You mention that" california has some similarities in their programs for poor people".
I go down to L.A. very year and I go to twelve step (NA) meetings all over town and we hang with some poor folks in early recovery and they really don't have a social safety net like we have here. It might be better than most states but no comparison to Canada.
As for health care the poor, surprisingly from what I saw one can get care at a hospital pretty quick. One of the Orange county hospitals I was at with a relative has a big sign in the lobby that stated they would not turn anyone away for lack of funds to pay and I saw lots of poor looking folks getting seen by a doctor a lot quicker than you would at a hospital in Canada, it was about a twenty minute wait.
I am sure our health care system is much better but I was surprised at the poor getting quick service, I didn't think that it was that way down there..

Yes, that's true, Barry.

And, as well are enduring an assault on their social services. I know they are having education cut backs and on health care. But, they do have a very strong and organized progressive movement.

This all went down before during the civil rights movement and the Vietnam war. Sigh. Even the some of the admin are the same. Even the talking points are the same. It does leave them better equipped to deal with what is happening, but we're learning quickly.

You know sometimes miracles come in small steps, I truly believe that you get to know someone by both the company they keep and their words. Today while looking around for some background information of Mr. Harper I chanced upon a letter from Sinclair Stevens on a website hosted by David Orchard. Mr. Stevens was a PC Minister under the Mulroney government. Certainly from the text of the letter I suspect there is no trust from that Conservative in Mr. Harper and his ultimate goals.

A couple of the quotes of Mr. Harper that certainly caught my attention were:

May 24th Speech National Citizens Coalition (this is now The Canadian Conservative Review-I guess they finally came out of the closet)
Stephen Harper: "...whether Canada ends up with one national government or two national governments or several national governments, or some other kind of arrangement is, quite frankly secondary in my opinion"

I thought this an odd comment for a man who would be Prime Minister of all of Canada. It certainly in my mind brings into question his commitment to Canada as a whole, separate and distinct nation. You know the nation that our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers fought and died for.

Certainly I would recommend those interested to go into the website to read the full text at davidorchard.com To be honest if I hadn't googled it I wouldn't have come across it. But I do think some of Mr. Sinclairs closing comments are worth noting:

"We have never hand a Prime Minister who believes in deconfederation....Without someone to fight for Canada and to speak for Canada at the federal level, Harper would administer the coup de grace to Canada and we would all be the poorer..."

One other comment by Mr. Sinclair is certainly worthy of note and should be considered a massive condemnation of the media in Canada:

"Some say Mr. Harper has a hidden agenda.
I disagree.
He has a very clear agenda.
For some reason however, most people, including mainline media, do not want to believe Mr. Harper means what he say."

Make no mistake about it, the speeches Mr. Harper has made in the past are truly what he believes in and that scares the hell out of me.

Our home is intent on voting for Canada, in this I am not a British Columbian first, I am a Canadian first. Mr.Harper's agenda is clear, it is to see the disintegration of our nation state.

For some reason you though this was clever enough to mention twice in this thread. Jim Harris was a PC member when we was 23, over twenty years ago. Secondly, the Preston Manning "wine and cheese", was not a for Preston or the conservatives. It was a fundraiser for STV, which we will be having more of. We are still hoping for Rafe, as well as other supporters of STV such as David Suzuki to speak at future ones. Among the attendees, you will likely see bc green party memebers, as well as bc liberals, ndpers, and loose fish.

Thanks StanM. for the link, for the two revealing quotes you included above, and for such an insightful piece.

I have reached the same conclusion after reading about Harper, Flanagan, and the Calgary School. They display little regard for governance...they definitely have other priorities... and very dangerous ones to our sovereignty as a nation. As your quote from Sinclair Stevens says Harper believes in deconfederation....unbelievable to think that with that belief he is even running for Prime Minister.

You are right that his agenda is to see the disintegration of our nation state.

It is hard to believe it has come to this... with so little of the public paying attention to what is actually happening here.

It is quite incredible.

Lynn
The logger earned that money by risking his life out in the woods, it’s well earned.

A family allowance check is money from the tax payers meant to help a family feed and clothe their kids, cashing it at a bar is immoral.

Lynn,
Why do you have such a hard time with the phrase "welfare wednesday". After all, it is when people get their welfare and it is wednesday. I don't think it's demeaning, it is a word imbedded in our culture, used for as long as I can remember, it doesn't infer a class of people it is a monthly event. Corporations don't have a specific day they can call corporate whatever because they have their hands out seven days a week, three hundred and sixty five days a year, so whenever they can get some bucks or tax cuts its corporate day.
Colin,
When you say it p###es you off when the welfare system doesn't allow folks to make money while on welfare, it should. That is one of the main reason so many can't get off of it. Try to get a steady job with no money for buss fare, clothes, food or whatever you need to make it work. The system should allow those who are actively seeking employment to make some extra part time money.
Most that I see fail to better themselves, do so because the system,for whatever reason makes it far more difficult than it needs to be to do so.

Doesn't everyone who has children get a family allowance cheque? I thought it was to encourage people to have children after the war not as a supply grant.

I'm not saying it is a good choice and that their children don't suffer. And, I think you know, Colin, the issue is larger than the cheque. It is judging people with different standardss And, your taxes go to the mililtary, or Campbell's first class trips, mine goes to poor people. So, don't worry.

...don't worry about your taxes, I mean.

looks like the tide has turned. the attack ads were their last gasp, and now they're being attacked. good on 'em. couldn't happen to a bigger bunch of arrogant a-holes.

Barryjo

100% agreement, having helped a number of my friends through difficult times and helped them deal with the welfare office, I personally feel the system is organized to the process rather than the goal. I also noticed that the various offices treated people very differently, the one in N. Van was pretty decent, some of the others were pretty bad.

Redrivergirl
Your tax dollars are paying for the bullets being used by our soldiers in Afghanistan, that’s the price of belonging to a society.

If we stopped a drunk cashing their family allowance check at the bar, that means we increased the chances that it would spent for the necessities of life, rather than a few drinks. (The Irish on this board may disagree with me on this) What I am seeing here is that we should have let the people cash the checks at the bar and drink it away, rather than “demeaning them” Frankly that approach demeans us all in my opinion.

I do worry about my taxes and yours. I work for the Federal government and I get pissed off at waste. My boss had a few words for me when I started here: “Spend the money like it is coming out of your pocket, because it is” Because of this we take great pride when we can save money and not to mention flak when we refused to deal with the semi-crooked travel agencies that the government used. (book you on a $2,000 flight when there were $300.00 tickets available) mutter, curse, rant, %#%$#

Colin: People on welfare have often paid taxes, too. It is not a gift, it is a right in our society.

When you tell the drunken lawyer (and I lived next door to a judge that was often driven home by the RCMP because of his inebriated condition) how to spend his money and refuse to cash his cheque becuse he is about to hit the liquor store and spend it all on booze, then we're talking.

Human rights involve things we often don't like or agree with...and you aren't allowed to pick and choose which people have to abide by those rights.

Of course, a police state would allow monitoring and scrutinizing of all people for reckless spending of money...excluding, of course, those pompous, hypocritical, asses doing the monitoring, which is always the case.

You want to stop the welfare recipient from spending all his money on booze? Champion and put into place effective social programs that address those issues.

It is the failure of our society that we do not address issues until they become serious problems...just as our present provincial government is creating more and more serious social problems by the very cuts they have made to social services. They recklessly spend money in their own self-interests...cut valuble needed services... and then sneer at those on welfare stinging from those cuts.

Human rights involve things we often don't like or agree with...and you aren't allowed to pick and choose which people have to abide by those rights.

And I agree people on welfare should be allowed to work in order to find their way out of it. The system is seriously flawed.

Lynn
What you were chastising me for, was that we would not cash the family allowance checks at the bar and rightly so. That individual had other place they could go, bank, drug store & General Store to cash them. They could then come back and drink the money away to their hearts content.

Lynn....

I agree - but time has a way of healing any previous statement a politician makes...or even the way he thinks. I'm no Harper fan but he could squirm out of that one.

But - just maybe - he & Duceppe are putting their heads together for an early referendum... and that wouldn't be all bad.

The new Bloc leader in Quebec is young with a lot of charisma so we can expect a separation challenge within the next two years.

You can talk all you want about Canada first but how many Quebecers (except for west Montreal) think that way? Hell we even have trouble with persuading them to fly the national flag.

'People on welfare have often paid taxes, too. It is not a gift, it is a right in our society.' according to some, anyway.

Elliot: The safety net of social welfare is a right of human beings in this country...but lately corporations have taken it on as their own sacred territory.

Corporate welfare is the prime agenda of the BC Liberals and the Harper Conservatives.

They definitely wrote the manual for it.

So, Elliot, that makes you a big, big proponent of the Corporate Welfare State. How you guys must luv all those hand-outs! How would you ever survive without them!

Jack's: Thing is, I like Quebec. I like that it is part of our country. Often they seem more fiesty and firm in their identity against US intrusion than the rest of us. I like their passion... for their politics... for their land... and for their history. I liked learning French in school. I wish I knew how to speak more languages. Great bonus if you like foreign films. :-)

I would not like to see Quebec separate from Canada. It's really not complicated to me, I guess.

unless he is out stealing the old fasioned way... with his sticky fingers!

if anoyone should be serving time, it is Svend and I only hope that the constituents can see this and vote for anyone else but him (I'd even take cross-burning Hedy over sticky-fingered Svend)

Seth:

In Oklahoma City an anti-gay activist Baptist pastor and member of the Southern Baptist Convention's executive committee was arrested after he propositioned a male undercover policeman for sex.
http://harpers.org/WeeklyReview2006-01-10.html
No worries about any "fundamental" changes, if this is any indictor. Harper at worst will be as crooked as Martin, and the fundamental stuff will take a back seat to avarice....

If Martin Badly Needed a Break on January 9, 2006

then after the display at the english debate and the current spade of attack advertising Rafe's original thought

and the X factor that Rafe has already presented, then Martin needs to find a party 'vehicle' or 'machine' because the one he has right now not only has wheels falling off, the brakes are gone and its off the road, riding on a rail that is headed straight for a train called CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY

The performances have been truly epic and totally funny! Monty Python could not have scripted a better punchline!

Maurice Strong

Just Google this name with a comma . liberal and look at what you see.
Another member of the Canadian mafioso.
I involved with the famous UN Food FOR OIL Program.
Another member of the Canadian mafioso that we somehow tolerate.
I think we may be out of the woods.
Martin is in a melt down.
His father was a friend of Maurice by the way.

How about smugggling in a Mercedes filled with booze....

Oh! the hypocrisy of it all.

If what I read from most of you is true than I don't see any choice but to vote NDP. Aside from all the mud slinging and scandals of all the parties the NDP is the one party that strives to equality for all, not just the rich. The demographics for my riding show the average income as $100,000.00 per year. I wonder what it would be like to be average...