A good article !

It restates what I have posted before in relation to the issue of education.

Teachers need more respect in BC and North America !

Asians and Asian culture respect teachers.
Sometimes it is too much respect(in Asian culture),but it better than being continually bashed by the government, media and some parents.

The current situation in BC shows why I will stay in Asia longer (I'm teaching at a university in South Korea). I love BC a lot, but I can get a better job with less stress elsewhere (outside Canada). I currently make the same as a high school teacher in BC. My income taxes are low (around 7%), my apartment is rent-free and my cost of living is lower than Canada. However, the fact that I can be respected here if I'm a good teacher is worth a fair bit of dough. Also, my class size varies from 6 to 25 students depending on what type of class it is (this semester I have two classes of 4 students, and four other classes with 11 students,17 students,23 students and 25 students respectfully).

Though one day I would like to return to the public schools in BC...it certainly won't be right now !

Good luck to the BCTF and the teachers of BC in their fight !

In Solidarity,

Kevan Hudson

How is it that political leaders can be so lacking in foresight that they continue painting themselves into a corner.
"Gordo" has himself to blame for putting himself in the bulls-eye of our future voters arrows.
One can almost be certain that senior students had some voting influence in the most recent election, and the current student body will
have a total political education for the next.
The teachers will win if they have the will.
Students will learn that civil-disobedience works in a free society.

when the law is an ass.......

Erm. I'm conflicted. On one hand, I'm thinking that teaching IS an essential service and, as with firefighting and policing, the career has a public safety net aspect to it that makes withdrawal of services morally problematic at best.

On the other hand, striking is a culturally accepted form of protest (as opposed to, say, sabotage), especially if the argument can be made that the strike draws attention to an unsafe work environment.

Have the teachers made the case that their work environment is unsafe? I think they have persuaded us that it is stressful and ineffective. Is that enough?

We can't continue to confuse money and respect. Gabriel Yiu claims that the demands from the government are simply unacceptable. Obviously the government found the BCTF's positions unacceptable. After 15 months and 36 meetings lets not forget that the BCTF AND the government negotiators completed exactly nothing. Lets face it, the issue is control of education, and it is natural that management who controls budgets and admin are preferable, if there is no compromise,than the labour in running the system.

The fact is that young teachers are lining up to work in the lower mainland and cant find jobs. The job IS well paid and very secure. I respect the front line teachers, and I do honestly believe that they have cause for frustration. I also believe it is the intractability of both parties, not just the government, that led us here. I believe that third party bargaining is a poor alternative because we need informed and professionally astute management, not a labour relations trained adjudicator running collective bargaining.

Teaching, an "essential" service? Children aren't going to die if there are no teachers. We won't see little corpses expiring on the lawns of suburbia.

If you are going to frame the debate on the essentiality of teachers to the health and welfare of children, you had better do it in the area where it has true context, which is intelligence vs. stupidity at the cerebral level. Not life vs. death at the physical level in the same context as firemen, doctors and police.

In that case, the environment in which teachers are being forced to serve is indeed hostile to the cerebral health of children, and the strike is entirely necessary.

No one has commented on the fact that teachers have been denied the right to seek arbitration. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but other essential services enjoy that right as compensation for their inability to strike.

Imagine what would happen if the matter went to binding arbitration. Teachers would show the judge what other teachers in Canada earn, inflation statistics, class size stats etc. The government would show the judge... well... I'm not sure how they would justify their position...

In the end, the judge chooses the proposal that makes the most sense. No strike required.

Isn't it odd that the government chose not to take this course.

"that teaching IS an essential service."

No. Daycare is an essential service. That's the problem here, nowhere to park the kids while Mom and Dad struggle to get by in an economy that demands two-wage families. Just wait till that sector (childcare) gets organized and unionized. Then they can get the shaft from guv'mint too! Good times.

Te notes: "Teaching, an "essential" service? Children aren't going to die if there are no teachers. We won't see little corpses expiring on the lawns of suburbia."

Things become essential when they are heavily relied upon and there are no practical alternatives.

A parent can take a child out of school indefinitely to go on a family vacation. There is no legislation to prevent this. And yet we are expected to believe that if teachers deny service for a day or a week in order to get better learning conditions for their students, the lives of those students are irreparably damaged.

The only essential function of teachers that this government cares about is their babysitting function; keeping the kids safe in a room until the parents get home from work. If it was about education, they would take steps to improve learning conditions while denying the requested raise. Instead they have legislatively removed the right of teachers to negotiate improvements for the students, and have left them only with the nominal right to negotiate for wages. This makes it easier to manipulate them in the press.

No one dies if teachers withdraw service, but business and parents lose their babysitters.

Essential service? Doesn't seem to essential on holidays, Christmas and Spring breaks, summer months, and snow days. It is a big problem, however, when sick children are sent to school when they should stay home. Seems to me the only ones ranting about essential service are the ones who don't want to pay for childcare.

Teachers right now are on the cutting edge of the struggle to save any meaningful democracy for ordinary working people in this province, and possibly the country, which has to include a healthy and powerful trade union movement, as a basic class component, to have any meaningful context at all.

Much of the "official" labour movement has been laid waste by anti-labour legislation and its own timidity, is languishing in impotent decline, or has become simply so old and creaky it can't get out of its chair in some meeting hall somewhere anymore. And much of the working class rank and file itself is still standing with its bare ass in the air and its head in the sand, taking its licks from the Dominatrix of Capitalism's sudden new direction of retrogressive Neconazi development. (And the trade union movement reflects the state of mind and level of understanding of the working class that makes it up. We need to understand that.)

It's a fuching mess, I think we all have to admit in the labour movement and on the left. :-) (Couldn't resist.)

Only here, the struggle of the teachers, to save any real sence of quality "public" education at all, and any sence of real social class organization, having any real power or capacity to participate in any real democratic dialouge effecting their own lives, living, economic and working conditions, is giving us all one more chance to pull these irons finally out of the fire. The teachers and their union lose this one, they and we are toast in terms of any capacity to actually influence the terms and conditions under which we live and work. And the trade union movement as it is and has been, is dead, dead, dead. That's the fact of the matter in a nutshell, and we need to 'fess up to it.

And I'm not saying that the passing of what is by way of a trade union movement and the left is necessarily the end of the world or us. Many a superior Phoenix has risen out of the ashes of what had to pass into history, and it may be that "Labour" as we know it has to go. But we shouldn't make light of what starting over from zero again is likely to mean either. It sure as hell wouldn't be easy, and it's likely to be many a long night like the last time a major comet hit our planet, before we see the light of day again, this side of capitalism

This struggle of the teachers is a chance for them and us to redeem ourselves again. It's certainly going to tell us a lot about what the future from here on is going to be like, for all of us as well, non-union as well as union. For if unions can't progress in this place of current capitalism, the rest of you in the un-organized sector are in even deeper doo-doo, up to your lower lip. (Hear the voice in the dank dark, whispering, "Alright. Breaks over. Now everybody stand on your head."?)

(Okay Lynn? :-)

I always thought that teachers were paid fairly well, until a week or so ago I was having dinner with a teacher friend of mine. She's got her bachelors, and is in her 5th year of teaching full-time. She's making 32k.

Yeah, she gets 6 weeks off in the summer, but still, considering how difficult the job is and the amount of stress involved, 32k/year hardly seems worth it.

"Have the teachers made the case that their work environment is unsafe? I think they have persuaded us that it is stressful and ineffective. Is that enough?"

35 students in a woodshop operating table saws and other equipment, one teacher; 36 to 40 students in a PE class; 33 students in a science labs operating bunsen burners/blow torches . . . YES, safety is an issue! Teachers are retreating from practical experiences because safe supervision of students is impossible. Students in PE are watching half the class use the gym at a time. Computer class run with 35 students and 30 computers, some out of service.

The school experience is being compromised.

Teachers raising concerns are being told that there are no longer limits on class sizes. Teachers saying the situation is unsafe and being told that it is not.

The funding is not going far enough. Administrators are being asked to meet budget which don't go far enough. The necessary compromises are untenable.

Our Administrators are well paid - good! Our teachers should be, too.

Thank you for a well researched article, well done!

Any argument that teaching was an essential service went out the window with the introduction of 4-day school weeks.

I'm a parent, and yes, it's a pain! it's probably a bigger pain for parents whose jobs offer less flexibility than mine.

But just as we had to figure out how to cope with 4-day school weeks and two-week spring breaks in some districts, with the odd snow day and with the usual run of childhood illnesses that present exactly the same challenges, we can all cope with the odd strike -- the media's hystrionics notwithstanding.

What we can't cope with is the continued failure of government to address class size/composition issues.

And yes, the teachers deserve a moderate pay increase and the right to bargain effectively for these things.

I'm right there with you, Gabriel!

"Essential services", that's nonsence. As Noted earlier, no one will die as a result of not being able to go to school, no one will go hungry, homeless or hurt themselves. As I write, my son is safe in his bed with happy thoughts of days filled with XBox dancing through his head.He is in grade twelve, all of his teachers have provided him with study guides covering at least the next week of work. It is encumbent upon my son to do the work, no one has denied him his education.
But what is at issue is the quality of our teachers and the education we as a people can provide.
It seems odd to me that in a province where we enjoy unprescedented economic boom, budget surpluses, all of which are apparently due to exraordinary good management by our government, we can't afford our teachers. How can we, as a province of great wealth, expect to compete nationally for the best and the brightest teachers for our children when we are unable to pay them a nationally competative salary. We will be facing an attrition rate of historically unheard of proportions when the boomers start to retire in a few years, how can we fill those posts unless we actively ensure those jobs are attractive to a teacher who is looking for a setting which is congruant to her/his ideals of good teaching practices.
If we can't afford to do this very basic good business practice then is our business/province doing as well as we are told?

Oh. And I'm out the door right now to go walk the picket line with teachers in my town. (I've got one teacher's aid daughter and a bunch of grandchildren dependant on the public school system, whose futures I'm worried about here.)

To those of y'all what can smell the coffee, see ya there!

Or is Covote right?

"No one dies if teachers withdraw service, but business and parents lose their babysitters."

I have a reasonably understanding employer and thus, here I am at home with my kids today.

I am thinking, though, that other employers might lean more to the position that the employees should be at work. For a day or week, not a problem. Indefinite strike, that is a problem. Assuming you work.

Excellent article!!!

The essential service designation is a joke. It is all so contradictory. If education is an essential service, why is it ok for parents to pull their children from school to go on family vacations? Even Gordo pulled his children from school to go to Hawaii!!!! Why is it ok for children to be pulled from school to go on shopping trips? Why is it ok that some school districts are on a 4-day week? Sorry, but adding a few minutes to each school day does NOT make up for an entire day of instruction!!!

To the working parents who are angry that they have to find daycare for their children: I am hiring a high school student to babysit my child when I am out on picket duty. Any other parent could do the same. I find it very depressing and insulting when I hear that all some parents are concerned about over all this is the lack of free daycare.

In regards to the instructional time children are missing during this strike: I've been told by many parents that they will use this time to read with their child(ren), have them practice math skills by adding up grocery bills, etc. There are tons of websites where students can practice their academic skills. My son will be doing all those things while this job action lasts (complaining all the while I'm sure lolol) but he will also be learning a very valuable life lesson. He will learn that his Mommy and many other teachers are willing to take the risks to fight for their students (as well as for their own children), to fight for their basic human rights, and to fight an unjust and bullying government. My son experiences the consequences of the Liberal's government approach to education and he understands the reasons for this fight and he is only 9 yrs. old!!!!!!!

October 6, 2005

ROBBINS Sce Research (1998)
robbinssceresearch.com

For immediate Release

ROBBINS education ‘flash poll’

We asked 115 parents of children attending public schools K-12 in the lower mainland of BC the following two questions:

Question #1-In your opinion which of the following (if you had to choose one) are teachers fighting for?

a. Teachers are fighting for students and better classroom conditions- (55) 48%
b. Teachers are fighting for their own wages and benefits- (60) 52%

Question #2-Who do you currently support in the teachers’ strike?

a. Teachers- (53) 47%
b. BC Liberal Government- (40) 35%
c. Undecided/Neither- (22) 18%

Commentary- In this ROBBINS ‘flash’ poll of a particular demographic (parents with children in K-12 public schools), in the lower mainland of British Columbia, relating to the BC Teachers strike, we are able to determine that slightly less than one half of parents in the lower mainland are of the opinion that teachers are fighting for students and better classroom conditions. Slightly more than one-half believe that teachers are fighting for their own wages and benefits. Many respondents would have liked a third choice in Question #1, specifically both (a) and (b) combined.

A majority of respondents support the Teachers over the BC Liberal government.

Many respondents who selected “c” Undecided/Neither in Question #2 believe teachers are fighting for students and better classroom conditions, they just aren’t sure if the teachers are going about it the correct way. On the other hand, some respondents who selected “b” in Question #1 do not hold it against teachers for seeking higher wages, while many, respondents who support the BC Liberals position, think the teachers are taking advantage of the situation for their own benefit. This latter position is a minority position, which we at ROBBINS (professionally speaking), do not think will trend upward.

A targeted digit dialing of 115 respondents throughout the lower mainland of British Columbia on October 6, 2005. This poll features a margin of error of 7.5%, 8 times out of 10 @ 95% competency.

Glen P. Robbins

(604) 942-3757
-30-

I don't believe it is an essential service... but oddly, for all the crap teachers spew about how important they are, you'd think they'd think it was onbe..but then it doesn't fit their purpose to call it one.

Excellent article! Good job!

I agree with you spedteacher! Education is not an essential service. If it was, parents should not be authorized to take their children out of school for holidays, etc.... I have a student in my class who hasn't shown up for school yet (yes, since the beginning of this school year!) because he is on an extended holiday... Parents are able to make arrangements when their children are sick (and with something like the chicken pox, children often have to be kept home for a week), why all the fuss about finding childcare now?

I do believe that this strike (or political protest if you prefer) is about more than learning conditions and pay increases. We are at a crucial point for any labor mouvement in this province. This government wants to break the union so it can privatize education. Is that what people want? The end of public education? When you starve the system and attack the workers (teachers and support staff), you are laying the ground work for what your true goals are: privatization! That is what Gordo wants. His priority is not the betterment of education!

We need to take a stand for public education!

I missed two months of grade four. Except for a weakness in the Roman numerals department I seem to have managed just fine.

Coyote? So good to see this old coot back!

When you're done reminiscing Nemesis, perhaps you could enlighten us as to why the teachers' vote isn't representative of the whole?

That is not well said it is just another whining socialist. All the teachers care about is getting more money for doing less work. ANd that is true. THey want smaller classes because it means less work. They want more money because they feel the should make 6 figures for working 9 months of the year. Don't tell me your "work hard" every body works hard yet you are the only ones who get a 1/4 of every year off.

Then you have the people like annealley

Nice propaganda. What a bunch of BS. DId jinny proof read that for you? BUt your right in one sense it is purely political and not about the kids at all.

ANd those robbin polls are a bunch of BS. Every one of them is always slanted towards the left. THey are not accurate and plain propaganda.

ALso,

Or do you mean it was supported by 9 out of 10 teachers who could make it to vote. I heard about 40% voted.

And to all you saying this is the LIberals fault. Rember 2 things. 1) Your morally superior leaders of the NDP instituted this bargaining process that has yet to come up with one negotiated settlement. Even your glorious NDP couldn't do it. 2) The BCTF has yet to work to a solution with ANY government. Before you blame this on the Liberals you should look in the mirror. Ah, but that would show who the real culprits are.

Also can all you socailist please stop using market arguements to support increased wages unless your willing to pay the teachers by merit and not by senority only. After all there are no ways of getting rid of the bad teachers, they can sit and drag down the system for everyone. Stick with your lets blow a hole in provincial budget so we can go back into debt argument.

Oh I nitice Mr. Yu ran as an NDP candidate. That means the BCTF donated to his campaign. That is biased journalism. Call ole Donny Gustasien. He recieved money from the BCTF now he's writing fluff pieces about them. WHat a joke.

Dismiss us socialists whiners, or what you will, JIm.

It's still a democracy, and if most of us feel that our public education system deserves better and our teachers deserve better, you're just going to have to face it and deal with us.

Those that can do it better and cheaper should join the teachers:

Complete your Bachelor of Education degree which entails 5 years at an accredited university or college, or 1 year following an appropriate Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree.

Costs: tuition for 5 years, about $25000 + living expenses for full time study.

Don't forget, that's just the beginning, you'll likely continue taking specialty courses.

Teachers often have Master of Arts, Master of Science, Master of Education and sometimes doctorate degrees, as well.

WHEN YOU'VE COMPLETED YOUR EDUCATION DEGREE, HAVE HEART, IT WILL ONLY TAKE YOU 11 YEARS, YES, ELEVEN YEARS TO REACH THE SALARY LEVELS QUOTED IN MEDIA ACCOUNTS. The $60,000 mark is reached by most teachers towards the end of their teaching careers, not the beginning or even middle. It takes up to 15 years because most teachers start with part time contracts or as teachers on call.

As the advertisement says, "Just do it."

You may find you'll expect reasonable working conditions, a reasonable wage and even a reasonable amount of respect, once you're there.

This is not about the BC Liberals bullying anyone. This is about a militant union that breaks laws and can negotiate with NO ONE not even their ally the NDP. IF the NDP can't even get a settlement with them how do you figure the Liberals would. The LIberals are extending this contract until after the freeze when they can increase teachers wages at the same time it gives time to come up with a new bargaining structure. Ah but i guess that all makes too much sense for an union to agree with it.

Anyone who claims the "education" provided in this province is essential, is just rotten, deceitful. Ghastly, these lies.

Where in the hell is Gordon Campbell during this dispute? Maui?

Where is our so-called leadership from our premier? Not one question or comment coming from Gordon Campbell himself.

It’s quite obvious that the corporate medias agenda here is to position the BCTF and the NDP in as negative light as possible to gain favour with the public on behalf of the BC Liars. From Globals Keith Baldry continual ramping up of illegal strike hysteria to blatant misinformation on the issue. Then there is today’s Province headline of “School Chaos.”

How about CKNW’s Phillip Till contemptuous attitude towards Jinny Sims of the BCTF during a recent interview or playing Mike de Jongs the BCTF’s NDP friends sound bite over and over again.

It seems to me that the BC Liars are the corporate media, there is not much difference between the two these days. The distinction between the media here and the BC Liars is blurred quite profoundly. Protect our corporate golden boy Campbell by insulating him from any and all controversies.

It really is sad that a majority of British Columbians still take Tony Parsons as gospel or even pick up that garbage called the Sun and Province.

The bias in favour of the BC Liars is as strong today as it was back while they were in opposition. This is no different than the old Russian communist regime’s use of PRAVADA as their source of propaganda.

We are really living in a new era of global corporate communism.

Oh, and yeah…. The sound-off boards over at CanWest Global would not post my similar comments as well! I kept it very neutral by not even referring to the BC Liberals as Liars.

negotiate = to discuss with a view to reaching agreement

legislate = to make or pass laws

'We're negotiating with the teachers for 0-0-0% wage increase and -2% taken off of sick day benefits.'

Discussion options included 'yes' or 'no.'

Surely you can see the difference between negotiation and legislation?

I believe I heard the "militant union" say, 'let's sit down at the table and talk about this.'

this is indeed an excellent story, but why does it have to be written by a former NDP candidate, which speaks to the very politicization of this issue?
i believe that there are 'bigger picture' issues, here, such as the increase in private schooling options in the province. here in kelowna, which is essentially a 'WASP monoculture', and where the superintendent of schools has won awards for innovative initiatives, private (in many cases faith-based) schools are thriving. now, they must adhere to provincial standards (no teaching creationism, here!), but from waldorf to Kelowna Christian School to even a PRIVATE french immersion school, these schools are popular, and in polling the parents it's obvious that class size is the major issue for them.
for those who look south for guidance on the 'future' of the role of government, can you say 'school vouchers?' i just a story comparing two schools - one private, and one public - in Salt Lake City, the state which spends the least amount of money in the USA per student in its public system. even there, though, the student class size is 22.5 students per teacher, a far cry from the 30 plus in many BC classrooms.
do you ever wonder why the most affluent people in society (and this is not new) send their kids to private schools? do you ever read about a teacher's strike at a private school? seems the much maligned (amongst Tyee readers) private sector does a pretty good job of 'service delivery' to those folks. (and forget the tired 'old boys network' stuff - these schools consistently outperform the public schools).
there's another thing, though, that makes the BCTF bristle, and that's the whole issue of teacher competence and accountability. if you don't 'measure up' in a private school, you're down the road. yet somehow, these schools seem to find inordinately talented educators who want to work for them; they're not all fresh UBC grads waiting for their crack at a 'protected' job in the public sector.
donning a more left wing hat, though, (and speaking as a former union member), it is VERY discouraging to not feel that 'things are improving' not just in terms of your own material well being, but in terms of how you do your job. the right has so successfully promoted this whole culture of 'accept less, be more productive' that feeds into all of our anxieties about self worth, etc, that, as coyote suggests, we all just bend over and take more. burned out, cynical, angry, and vindictive - how can this attitude NOT filter down into how our kids are taught? who amongst us 'checks our attitude' at the door when we daily go into a job where most of the people are counting down the days until they retire and get the hell out?

Wow! What a surprise! An NDP candidate supporting the BCTF. If the Sun ran a contrary opinion from a former Liberal candidate you lefties would be hitting the roof. Bottom line here is that the teachers are breaking the law today. Can't imagine what kind of BS they'll spew at their students when they ask them why they have that right while others don't. Heard Sister Jinny comparing the plight of the teachers to that of the Blacks in the civil rights movements of the 60's. My God what nerve! The rational teachers with some common sense must be very embarrassed by all this garbage.

"Bottom line here is that the teachers are breaking the law today. "

Except the law was different a week ago. Political expediency, not a search for fairness is motivating this 'law'.

Gordon Campbell Hates My Kids.

I am very disappointed with my goverment who has not only failed my children this morning but in fact has betrayed them by refusing to negotiate a collective agreement with the one group of people who spend as much time with them as I do, the BC teachers.

I read the typical duck and spin response from minister Mike de Jong as he says, "This strike is clearly illegal, if you're a law-abiding citizen you can't choose which law you're going to follow..." which of course you can and you must, if that law is a corrupt law by a corrupt government (Even the United Nations condemns the BCLiberal tactic) put in place specifically to avoid negotiating a fair settlement.

Perhaps if Jimmy Pattison, Teck/Cominco, Timberwest and the rest of the wealthiest in this province also were given a 0/0/0 wage increase / tax cut, I might be inclined to support the government instead of the teachers.

Instead you can count on me to support the teachers on the picket lines, in letter-writing, online blogging and any other way I can to get my children back to school with reasonable funding and support services so they can have a future in this province

"This strike is clearly illegal, if you're a law-abiding citizen you can't choose which law you're going to follow..."

Save it for Campbell, de Jong.

1) I just returned from picket duty & I'm overwhelmed by the support received!
2) Someone above posted that there are plenty of new teachers, desperate for jobs. I'm not so sure about that. UBC can't even fill all the spaces available in the Education program. Everyone who just graduated in my specialty cohort has a job. We are not desperate at all.

Mr. Yiu said

What a hypocrite. He ran as an NDP candidate in the last election. The NDP's own financial plan in the May election campaign provided for no salary increase for teachers. Ms. James said she was "very clear" that her budget proposed no increase.

How is it that Mr. Yiu agreed with this stand in May, and now calls it ruthless? Answer: he's a politician with no scruples.

I just returned home from picket duty. Thank you to everyone who stopped by with coffee and doughnuts etc. Thanks also to all of those who honked and waved to show support. I have to respond to the comments regarding my taking part in an illegal strike, and therefore breaking the law. Just because something is illegal, does not make it wrong. Please remember that the government legislation that has removed our right to strike and declared education an esssential service has been found by the UN to be in violation of international standards to which Canada is a signatory. Also, teachers gave up wage increase demands in the past in order to have class size and composition language in our contracts. The current government simply ripped up our contract and imposed a contract upon us. The reason there have been 35 meetings between the BCPSEA and BCTF with no success is because the government has completely refused to even discuss the issues of class size/composition and salary increase. What kind of negotiation is that? They come to the table with nothing! Over the past 10 years, we have received a 10% salary increase. The cost of living rises approx. 3% per year, so I'm falling behind every year. I became a teacher knowing I wasn't going to get rich, but I never thought I'd get poor! And finally, I do more work and put in more hours in 9 months than many people do in 12! My work day starts at 7:00 when I arrive at school. I generally leave school at about 3:30, go home, have dinner, then do 2-3 hours of marking and preparation. During the summer, I spend a great deal of time looking for materials for my class (which I have to pay for out of pocket since there is no money to pay for supplementary materials). I (and many of my collleagues) arrive at school mid-August to begin preparation for the first day of school. To those of you who think my job is easy, I invite you to come to my school and spend a day with my colleagues and me, and see how easy it really is!

In regards to missing school as a child: I was there every day, but if one takes into account the hours spent daydreaming and gazing out the window thinking about all the lands I would one day travel to (and where my true education would begin), I really wasn't "at school" more than a week each year, I figure...

How about Carole James double-talk routine. She could do a standup act a la norm crosby. 'I support what the teachers are doing but I think everyone should obey the law'. Can't have both sweetheart. Time to make a decision maybe?

By the way what do teachers at private schools earn anyway?
What are the typical differences, if any, between them and public school teachers in terms of credentials?
How much does it cost to send a student to a private school?
What are the average class sizes in private schools?
Do private schools receive any government funding and if so what percentage of their operational budget?
When are Saruman and Sauron going to have that bridge game with nemesis and jim?

Welcome back, coyote! I swung by the picket-line earlier today with some sweets my kid and her friends baked last night. Since the school is on a main highway, I thought I should mention the surprising number of big rigs that showed their support for the strikers, about a 2 out of every 3 ratio.

I think the person who wrote "Gordon Campbell hates my kids" should get a prize for the most appropriate t-shirt slogan.

"Why I'm an NDP candidate who supports big labour". by Gabriel Yu.

Question for Mrs Gordon Campbell:

As a Vancouver high school vice-principal, can't you explain a few facts of school life to that husband of yours?

I've got 2 kids in one of the "inner city schools", and I'm missing my class time for my own degree while the teachers are on strike, but I support them - 110%! The teachers at my kids school work so hard in an environment that is not the easiest. Over half their school is comprised of ESL students or special needs students.

They don't have the ability to raise the funds that other schools do (parents can barely pay the $20 asked at the beginning of the year for school supplies let alone have silent auctions and get kids to sell $6/roll wrapping paper). My kids are fortunate that we have a computer at home because there is no way that they'll be able to learn things like typing at their school because it doesn't have a computer lab or anything, the school doesn't have any way to implement the "all the right type" program.

There are so many special needs and ESL kids in their classes that just aren't getting the support they need (and not for a lack of trying) and my kids don't get the support they need because the teachers are working to just get the others on track. My kids have wonderful teachers who are committed to their jobs, but there is no way I could put in the effort that they do and get such little recognition. The liberals seem to feel that teachers are glorified babysitters and they aren't. I can babysit kids, but I can't teach them a pre-designed curriculum within the timeframe with the resources offered. Our teachers should be applauded for what they have done so far.

I dont' think anyone in our camp will ever be accused of 'being slanted to the left'. The parents of K-12 isn't Campbell's demographic to begin with. He does well here, but he does better with older folks-baby boomers etc.

Add to this the present political circumstances and we are convinced the government is losing with this demographic. We don't know what others without children are thinking, because we did not poll that.

At the beginning of September 2005 I might not have predicted this, but a day in politics...

If we should be accused of anything it would be for being deadly accurate, and not very modest.

Are mandate is to be deadly accurate, (and we are). We don't give a shit about left right etc.

We say Bush is going to win for three months in a row, publish to every media site available, have our U.S. polls delivered to tens of thousands of email addresses and we are right. We call the NDP to win 34 seats, they win 33 and Vancouver Burrard's outcome is dubious. The press starts out at 18 and than starts hedging their bets. We get the STV accurate within one half a percentage point.

We say Christy Clark can't grow to win, good-bye she's gone. We are the first to show no support for Coquihalla, good-bye gone. We are the first to publish that the Conservatives even when they were doing so well in the federal election, didn't trust the media, and did not themselves think they would win, and what happens? The press comes out with an old clip of Randy White. CREEPY

We catch CKNW push polling against the teachers, changes are made.

Notwithstanding the article which is good (and I can tell you one half of my colleagues don't want to give the teachers a dime, and one half want them paid), we lean to no side.

I was a Socred member, a BC Liberal member 1993-1996, and a Reformer from 1996-2002. I have personally been called a racist, a hater of jews, a gay basher because I think the same sex legislation was politics not social progression. I can't be all things to all people because are mandate is to simply de spin a very bias media and give deadly accurate public opinion.

That isn't a history of left leaning.

Fact is, the teachers' are beating Campbell at his own game and the reason is simple. This isn't about anti-union or anything like this, it is more simple than that. People (voters) are busy and this legislation back to work thing has become a one trick poney. Campbell is pissing people off who pay him to keep things moving nicely not to bust unions.

That is what this is all about. The rest is just partisan.

Here we have a province, heck a country that is facing a skill shortage and what does the government do. They continue to short our society. What we need to remain a competitive and growing economy is a skills base. To accomplish this we need an environment for our kids to become the best they can. Why does this Liberal government not get it? They claim to pray at the alter of the market, but we are a society in decay. I say bravo to our teachers. As well I say thank you for the lesson in civics that you are presenting as an example to our kids. You have my full respect.

Jesterjogger:

By the way what do teachers at private schools earn anyway?

Well there are a number of different types of private schools, there are the ones that are virtually like regular schools (for instance religious schools). Then there are the more 'elite' or university prep schools. Then there are schools that are for kids whose parents live in other countries and they don't always provide the proper BC education.

I don't recall ever reading anything about competitive wages or anything when I was researching schools, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a wage differential.

What are the typical differences, if any, between them and public school teachers in terms of credentials?

I'm not sure but I never read anywhere that a school suggested that they had staff that were more trained than the public school teachers, except the Montessori/Waldorf teachers have an extra year of training in the specific model and need specific child development courses.

How much does it cost to send a student to a private school?

The lowest I found was at a montessori and it was $580/month (with a 10% reduction for second and third kids in a family), but that was about 4 years ago (so I imagine that's gone up, but I can't be sure).

What are the average class sizes in private schools?

About 12-20 kids, but 20 seems to stand out as the most common number I read/heard.

Do private schools receive any government funding and if so what percentage of their operational budget?

There is a specific per student formula that all schools get (including public ones), but the privates have the option of charging parents for extra stuff, but the public ones can't. Basically the more the school charges the less percentage of the total operating cost the school gets. So a place like Crofton house charges $1250/month/kid, but would get the standard $280/month/kid (which is what I think I recall the amount being 4 years ago) on top of the tuition. The normal public school would get the straight $280/month/kid, anything above that needs to come from PAC fundraising.

Another thing, the private schools are supposed to have bursary programs and scholarships which are nearly impossible to get.

The support teachers are getting on the picketline is amazing! Thanks to everyone who had kind words for us here. Taking this action was not an easy choice. We want to be in the classroom doing our jobs, but there really wasn't any alternative. We have a government that refuses to negotiate with us in any meaningful way. Jinny Sims didn't force us out; we overwhelmingly voted to stand up for our basic rights.

I, for one, hope that the government comes to the table over the weekend and tries to solve this dispute. I don't want to be out one more day than necessary. No matter what your opinions on teachers are, the only way we are going to solve this thing is if the two parties meet to discuss the issues. BCPSEA is, and never was, a legitimate player at the bargaining table. We need direct negotiations with the ones that can make decisions. Gordon Campbell better wake up pay attention. I encourage everyone to write their MLA nad demand that the government do its best to come to an amicable solution.

"I support what the teachers are doing but I think everyone should obey the law". Can't have both sweetheart. Time to make a decision maybe?

Bang on, Nemesis.

Teachers should be grateful to those individual NDPers who will, in their great majority, doubtless support them. As will the majority of the rest of us citizens, as they come to understand just what is at stake here, for all of us. That said, watch out for "official" NDP and labour bureaucracy treachery. Simple wisdom founded on past experience.

But it's goofball, right wing Jim above who really needs to shake his head. For his view of the teachers strike, especially of what is rightly the "self-interested" elements of teachers themselves in this dispute, along with what's good for our kids, and their friggin' democratic right to look after it, is a plain and simple example of the double standards of his own ruling class serving, Brownshirt view of the world . If it was the ruling class's price gouging, attempts to destroy majority working class rights and interest, excess profits and CEO incomes we were talking about here Jimbo, we all know you'd be making sucking sounds all over the place, apologizing for it, as you do all the time. To you, it would just be an example of simple capitalist "enlightened" self interest that keeps capitalism ticking along. When it comes to any sector of the working class looking to protect and defend their incomes and working conditions however, it's suddenly an economy killer, blatant union greed, ad nauseum.

Stick it into your ruling class bootlicking ear Jimbo. You may be able to peddle that crap on your wingnut sites, where the one or two of you gather to self-congratulate each other, but it doesn't work here, where folks know a thing or two about the real character and workings of the real system. (It's no wonder wingnut web sites are on the decline, as "progressive" sites rise. Which is why you have to come here for any real conversation at all, eh Jimbo. It's lonesome over there in Wingy Dingy Land. Though ya do a good job of keeping the ruling class's boots all shiny and black. But c'mon now, let us see the colour of your tongue. :-)

Get off your knees, Jim. Quit talking and acting like a slave, bending the knee and fawning all over his masah. (If I remember correct, you're a taxi driver, right Jim? Somewhere up north? I mean lots of folks own a car. That doesn't make you a part of the ruling class, Jim. That's just self-delusionment.)

Collective bargaining must have both sides willing to bargain in good faith. My blood boils when I hear ignorant people say that we need a new bargaining structure because we have not been able to achieve a collective agreement without resorting to legislation in 12 years.

Of course not!

Government has not been interested in truly bargaining, and in recognizing that teachers are the ones who are in the best position to determine what is in their students' best interest.

The Campbell government is ideologically opposed to giving workers any rights at all, and is intent on underfunding and eventually privatizing education.

Teachers must stay united, and must stay strong. This is all about Gordon Campbell wanting to retain all power, and not at all about what is best for kids.

In response to JIm's comment:

Well, JIm, looks like you are buying the Liberal propaganda like it was gospel.... and you're naive if you believe that they truly want to find a better bargaining structure!

This is somewhat off topic, but Former BC Boy says that Asians respect teachers. Yes, well this is the shibboleth that Asian managers look for in discourse. If you look at teachers unions in Japan and Taiwan though, you would see the reality.

In Taiwan, the case is simple. Teachers are not allowed to join unions. Period. Although since the end of totalitarian rule there, teachers have held massive protests for unionization.

The Japanese teachers union, Nikkyoso, was busted up in the 1980s after more than 30 years of LDP totalitarian rule (who continue to rule) which specifically targetted the teachers union as their number one enemy.

The Japanese government did this by making former Naimusho (sometimes called the Thought Police) officials the Ministers of Education, by sending yakuza thugs to Nikkyoso's offices to harass and beat them and by having a law on the books whereby anyone can be detained for 23 days by the police without any charges. That law is still in effect.

Japan has seen a rise in the last few yars of negative nationalism with the mandatory raising of the hinomaru flag at schools. Some teachers have been arrested for not standing and singing to what many consider to be imperialist symbols. School principals even demand fascist salutes. Check out a photo at

http://nambufwc.org/komplete/webapps/komplete/index.php?KTURL=mod_page.html&page=146

And Jim, I have a had a few shares in my lifetime.
(Though I'm investing safe and near to home these days.) I've got zero debts. I drive a shiny new pickup, and own my own home, all free and clear. Gospel truth.

But that doesn't make me a part of the ruling class, Jim. That's just what everybody should and does have a right to expect out of a life of labour, however lowly, I think.

If you and other folks won't fight for your own fair share of the total economic product of society though Jim, then that's the share(s), spread across the whole of society, into the coffers of the select male chosen (and a few women) precisely what makes the ruling class rich, rich. And the dog eat dog world view and dynamic of the system is, if you won't fight for yourself, you get only the diminishing share of the old sows hind tit to suck on, y'all being good kids, and forever reserved for the timid, the lame and the poor.

And eh, Jim! I'm not defending that. You are. You think it's only the ruling class's right. You think it's the survival of the fittest world as it should be, and pursured by all of us.

Don't you see something maybe wrong with this picture here, Jim?

I know, Jim. You think what's wrong is that I shouldn't be such a greedy trade unionist.

Sorry, Jim, but you've really gotta go sit on that tall stool in the corner, at the back of the class, and wear this oversized cone shaped hat.

And write a thousand times, "I will learn not to be such a Doofus."

I believe the saying goes "forgive them, for they do not know what they do". Jim, nemesis, and Martin should be pitied. Their lack of understanding is dangerous. Their postings demonstrate that they cannot grasp the nuances of a democratic society. It is obvious that their field of vision is accurate to two decimal places. Many totalitarian governments have used the "rule of law" to suppress dissent. How else can they hold on to power other than creating a scapegoat for their own inadequacies and failures? There is a future a stake here. We need forward thinking and clear-headed citizens to make a stand before the next election. Maybe next time, someone else will hit 77 seats. Then watch Jim, nemesis and Martin whine. That's what they are good at.

To All Teachers Out on Strike

I would just like to say as a parent of an elementary school student in Surrey.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, for taking a stand for a better learning environment for my son and all the other kids.

I have been to my son's class on numerous occasions and have witnessed the problems faced by his teacher when it comes to special needs kids in the classroom. It is quite evident that the teachers need help and support in these over-occupied classrooms. This help and support is also required for our kids who are not in need of special care, but do need the focused time and attention of these well qualified teachers, not by having 40% of their time tied up as babysitters.

Personally, I was so perplexed by this that I offered to help and was fortunately able to assist for about 6 hours a month last year. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it sure made a difference while I was there.

To Jim and any one else against the teachers right now. I urge you to simply go to a few schools, sign in and slap on a volunteer sticker and just visit a few classrooms in each school for a while. I am sure you will see the "just issues" that are forcing these teachers to take a stand.

Every one of the parents I know and have talked to around here is in total support of the teachers. We are setting up rotating care for our kids, education roundtables, educational hikes, outdoor sports activities, and we are all willing to wait this out with the teachers.

In fact we are even discussing having a few of those hikes on the picket line. We all do not like the way this is being handled and we believe that the government should sit down and talk out a solution.

Heck, even our kids know that!

And for the comment regarding "only about 40% of the teachers voted", well, if you don't vote in a democracy, you are therefore stating that you're comfortable with the decision of those voting.

Sincerely,

Average Joe

Jesterjogger,

I don't know about all private schools but I can tell you about the one in my town.

Although the school receives the same money per student that public schools do, they still charge tuition.

They receive extra funding for special needs students but have only just started to provide any extra support for them.

If parents want their child assessed by a Psychologist, etc., they must pay for it themselves.

They teach their students following an AMERICAN Christian homeschooling program.

I think they have three teachers in the school. Only one has a teaching degree.

I am not sure how they do assessment in their school to show accountability. There have been many parents who have been told their child is working at grade level but when I administer diagnostic tests to these students, many of them are far below grade level. One parent was told that her daughter was working at grade level and when she was referred to the School Psychologist she was diagnosed as moderately mentally handicapped and five years behind her peers!!!!

We had a student transfer to our school this year who was diagnosed as special needs. I have phoned the private school repeatedly asking for a copy of the Individual Education Plan (a document which is required by the Ministry of Education for students who receive spec. ed. funding). I have yet to receive the IEP and doubt it exists. How can this particular private school get away with that and still receive funding????????

There is no gym therefore no phys. ed. program.

There are few, if any, extra-curricular activities.

The private school has expelled students for misbehaviour, acting out in class, etc. Public schools cannot do this. We take ALL students regardless of ability, behaviourial issues, etc.

These are only some of the differences that I can think of off the top of my head. I am not saying that the same holds true for all private schools .. just the one in my town. I have obtained this information through my own experience and from talking to parents who had enrolled their children in the private school. Most parents who enrolled their child in that school did so for the smaller class sizes. Every parent who has pulled their child from that school did so because they wanted a higher quality education for their child.

I would love to hear an explanation from the Ministry of Education about schools such as this. Why do they get the same funding as public schools yet they aren't held to the same measures as public schools? How can they teach an American curriculum to their students yet still receive funding? Why aren't they held to the same accountability as public schools?

it is hard to pity morons.

Gotta laugh at those who want to proclaim teachers an essential service...the same crew willing to sell-out our real essential services... our land, our air, and our water.

In 2001, mere days after the general election, Premier’s Campbell’s advisor Rod
Love told the government to "squash the labor movement like a bug" ...

And that has pretty well been the agenda of the present government over the past four and a half years...their wrath now turned on teachers and the BCTF.

Despite the references to class size, lack of textbooks, lack of school librarians etc... all
vital issues, of course...still the hill on which to die now, I think at least, is the human rights issue.

However this present dispute is resolved, eventually we are going to end up confronting the heart of the matter, again just my opinion, which is the loss of human rights entangled in the philosophy of "living to work"...the neo-con dependence on societies structured on endless work for endless profit...where human rights fall whenever they become an obstacle to profit.

The loss of rights that so many workers are experiencing today. It is certainly happening with teachers who are working more and more for a system that values them less and less... and a system that purposely de-moralizes and humiliates in order to make docile creatures of us all...so we will not disrupt or disturb.

The problem is too many workers themselves have bought into this. I hear it in some of the comments above, in the fear of disruption by all political stripes...in the babysitting issue of the teacher dispute which of course is part and parcel of the 9-9 work day nature of the society we live in now. The work world has consumed our lives and the lives we once shared with our children.

We have almost forgotten how to work "to live", it seems.

And Coyote, in fine form, that "this struggle of the teachers is a chance for them and us to redeem ourselves again."

Really, there isn't much ground left for us to lose. We might as well be bold and brave. So far timidity hasn't worked.

the minister of labour is in my opinion a poor excuse for a human!

I support the teachers in this fight.

I believe it was Jim that mentioned 40%, but I thought I heard 85% had voted. I would be interested to know... if someone has that answer.

1) The amount of accurate information some people possess is inversely proportional to how strong they hold their opinions.

2) People generally think they know more about what's really going on than they actually do. If only they would try to keep an open mind and be able to accept new information that could genuinely change their views.

3) All news media is biased, but people choose what to believe according to their personal biases, in order for it to conform with their ideologies. (One of those ideologies is that others have it better than I do.) That way the world makes more sense to us. But personal experience (rather than consuming news media) is the most authentic source of information.

4) Most everyone thinks of "education", "teachers" and "schools" according to their personal experiences, that is to say, what it was like when they were at school. But it is so different now! It is safe to say that almost everyone who has an opinion about what a teacher's job (and lifestyle) is like bases this on outdated notions formed, depending on their age, many years--even decades--in the past.

5) Taking into account the above points, I think that unless you are a teacher, in order to find out what it is like to be a teacher in today's environment, you should listen to the teachers. No matter where you are in the province of BC they are saying the same things: teaching in our school system is a difficult job and things are deteriorating; teachers work much longer hours than the public realizes; teachers pay is less than the public knows; teachers care more about quality of education because of how it affects their students; teachers feel the lack of respect from the government, which filters down to the general population and ultimately to the students.

6) This "dispute" is about the govenment using any tactic it can, morally or legally unjust or not, to break a union. It is ideologically opposed to unions, and the BCTF is the first of many "disputes" in the offing.

PART 2

6) This "dispute" is about the govenment using any tactic it can, morally or legally unjust or not, to break a union. It is ideologically opposed to unions, and the BCTF is the first of many "disputes" in the offing.

7) Evidence: The previous collective agreement was achieved by teachers forgoing a wage increase in order to keep language that guaranteed class-size limits and other important learning conditions. Then the Liberals stripped those guarantees, and the 6.5% wage increase over 3 years was only financed for the first year, meaning the school boards were forced to further decimate the learning conditions in order to pay for the salary increase over the next two years. The govenment declared education an essential service (by all accounts a shameful ploy) in order to prevent strikes, but without the normal guarantees for arbitration. When that imposed "contract" expired after three years, they unilaterally say, oh, by the way, your three-year contract is now for five years.

Yes, I am a teacher. In my fifty years, I have been employed in a variety of areas, but am in my second year of teaching. It is very different from how I remember high school in the early seventies. I have nine years of post-secondary education (two degrees) but am on level 2 of an 8-level salary scale. Therefore, I will achieve the top salary only after ten years. I routinely work from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm and frequently more hours at home, but am paid 0.85 full-time equivalent. This amounts to $1862 per two-week pay period (take-home $1250). My "summer holidays" are unpaid leave.

I will end this longer-than intended post with the thought that even though we are the lowest paid teachers in all of Canada, and our administrators are, inexplicably, the highest paid in Canada, that the main issue here is not money at all. It is about the basic right to negotiate, the basic right to strike if negotiations fail, and ultimately the basic right of quality education for the common good.

Just a quick note about the whining by the Undynamic duo up top. BS is usually shovelled out of barns. JIm et al. get a life

A second comment about the 'myth' of the BCTF and incompetant teachers. The problem sits squarely on the shoulders of the School Board and Board officials. They have the power to 'fire', expel or discipline teachers they just chose not to do so. It is easier to whine that is somehow the fault of the BCTF for defending teachers, as do doctors, lawyers, dentists etc. under respective by-laws.

Oronym, beautifully written comment! I totally agree. Thanks

The Wolf; I have an exact number for you, straight from the BCTF head office. 20,545 teachers cast ballots out of a total of about 42,000. This means that 44% of BC Teachers voted to stage an ILLEGAL strike. Jinny is dying to go to jail now because it will insure her a seat on the opposition side of the legislature next election.
Coyote; Although it is nice to see you back I must admit I didn't mind not seeing the word 'brownshirts' for such a long time. It's just so old and cliche and it makes you sound much less intelligent than you really are.

49% actually

Come on Uncle Jack. Your math's better than that. 49% voted in total. 90% of them voted yes. 44% of the 42,000 teachers voted yes.

oronym

I very much enjoyed reading your post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

It makes me proud that you help develop and inspire our children.

Sincerely,

Average Joe

Get real. It doesn't matter who didnt' vote in the teachers dispute. Anyone who didn't vote, knowing a strike means a loss of their PAY, is giving tacit approval to go out if necessary, they just didnt' show.

School isn't an essential service per se as proven by many above posts. But, if for the sake of argument, it IS, then the gov't better get its' act together and bargain in good faith so that THEY don't cause a disruption of an essential service.

Maybe all unions should get together and bargain their contracts at the same time. And, maybe there ought to be an yearly rise in everyone's salary, including minimum wage the first of the fiscal year. Maybe we should be more like Europe and Australia and have 6 week vacations. Maybe we need to re-evaluate our priorities.

Could someone out there enlighten me as to what percentage of the popular vote the Liberals obtained in the last provincial election, and what was the percentage of the eligible voters who came out to the polls? I agree that the latest vote by the teachers was a rush job, but it was forced by the rush job of the government to legislate us back to work. In my district it was emphasized how important it was to attend the meetings and the vast majority did, but then we are a small district and don't have to drive across a city to get to the meeting hall.

Oh, and by the way, it goes like this. Vouchers until the public shcool system is destroyed then no vouchers, and no public system whcih equals MASSIVE tuition.

Are my taxes really going to pay for private schools? This is not okay with me.

Oh, that's a good point, star crazy.

Are the BC Liberals an illegitimate gov't because of the low turn out in the last election?

No. Although, they are illegitimate because they made socialist speeches while in fact being reactionaries. And, for telling lies about what they are doing and what they plan on doing.

Whoops !
Guess I got caught making a generalization !
As "Asher" correctly points out Asian governments (with Japan and Taiwan as the examples) will often behave much the same as Gordo and his merry bunch of BC Lieberals.
In Korea, there are also been battles between teachers and the government over many education related issues. Also, at private academies (hagwons) and sometimes at universities too there are problems. So Asia is not a nirvana for teachers.

What I was trying to say (and I need to comment not after work when I tired...Where's my fair trade coffee dammit ?) was that in general Asians respect education (especially parents and students). The Asian countries of Korea, Japan and Taiwan (and others) have put lots of money into education and still do. Sadly, in North America society at large does not value education (and teachers). Even if the polls posted earlier are correct - you still have a large minority supporting the Lieberals.
The current education system is not for every student and I believe reforms are necessary (less emphasis on tests and more emphasis on practical training for those that I want it or volunteering plus more emphasis on problem solving and creativity, etc.)

It is important that we agree with Confucianism that education is important, and that we realize education comes in many forms not just a test or a textbook.

Thanks for waking me up "Asher" ! I promise to be a better student next time ! LOL

Kevan Hudson

When I was on the picket line yesterday, a colleague was talking to me about the public school system as essential daycare. After making some calculations, she is considering opening a daycare: Charging $5.00 per hour per child times 30 children times 6 hours would bring in $900.00 per day! Multiply this by 5 days a week for, say, 30 weeks (summers and holidays off) equals $135,000.00 per annum. She said "Heck, I'll throw the education in for free!"

I was heartened to learn yesterday, while on picket duty, that ALL 67 full and part-time teachers in my school were doing picket duty!

Wow, using Nemesis' logic, the BC Liberal government is illegitimate. How many eligible voters voted in the last election? What was the BC Liberals popular vote? Come on, Nemesis, you can do the math. Is this the best argument you can come up with?

I believe approximately 26% of eligible BC voters gave the BC Liberals their current mandate. This compares with approximately 24.5% of eligible voters for the NDP. (I am going by memory).

If memory serves me about 10-12 seats were close.

Not all out of town ballots were counted. ROBBINS found just under 100 in Burquitlam for Vancouver Burrard. The press didn't want to cover this because there is talk that out of town ballots were left all over the province, however I do not know to what extent.

Consider the extensive advertising that went into the pre-election campaign for the BC Liberals, and the 'spin' about the BC Teachers (Mission?) near the end of the campaign when Campbell was in trouble, and the fact that the press wilfully blew the Democratic Reform Party off the stage to assist the BC Liberals from being horribly upset by the New Democrats, and everyone who is able to read the political dynamic beneath the surface would reasonably agree that the BC Liberals have a majority, but no mandate for extreme measures.

If Campbell believed he did, he would not have permitted any debate on Bill 12. He has come out of the election debate as unpopular as he was prior to the election. This is the BC Liberals second term in office, and their popular support will go lower not higher in the next election (2009) particularly if Campbell stays, simply on the basis of 'change' after two terms.

The Socreds under WAC Bennett the longest serving Premier in the province averaged around 41.5% when the NDP would traditionally receive around 32-33%.

The NDP will receive a vote percentage over 40% in the next provincial election. The liklihood that they receive a higher total than the last election is in my professional estimation about 5 to 1. The Greens will decline to about 4-5% under Carr no matter how much press she gets. The chances of the Greens receiving a higher percentage than that in my opinion are about 10-1.

The Teacher's strike may be the beginning of the end for Gordon Campbell. This plus other forces like change in civic election, ( it is possible that VancouverIsland/Vancouver/Burnaby/Coquitlam/Sur
rey etc will all elect centre left governments.

This would mean that all of these 'political underpinnings' from Victoria to Langley would be non Gordon Campbell. He would be isolated in Vancouver with Colin Hansen and Carole Taylor. Conservative BC Liberal Rich Coleman in Langley would than have to look at the onset of New Democratism and decide whether he is going to go down with the ship, or see the writing on the wall and lead a BC Conservative type party, effectively creating a 'split'.

Its either this or near certain NDP majority in 2009 just in time for Carole James to preside over 2010.

"I swung by the picket-line earlier today with some sweets my kid and her friends baked last night." wrote Te Aro Arahina .

Mmmmm. Sweets! Love Sweets. :-)

And good to read you Te Aro Arahina.

The Irony- I tutor ESL students in their homes and two weeks ago started tutoring two Korean boys who live in a new, very posh apt building on UBC campus. One is in grade 8, the other in grade 10. They live one floor apart and I tutor them one after the other (very convenient- this kind of thing happened when I was in Asia, but I never thought I could line it up here)... anyway, I digress... so this building, though, is like Fort Knox!!! I've been stuck on the stairs between floors (only the 12th floor door opens onto the hallway, the rest are locked), stuck in visitors' parking, and been unable to get from one floor to the next via elevator. Thankfully I've never forgotten to take my cell phone and the boys or their mothers always come to my aid. We joke about the security... the funny part (and point of this whole story) is that guess who I've come face to face with TWICE in the lobby- not once, but twice now, leading me to believe he lives in the building, because it is always late at night- EL GORDO himself!! HAHA... the first time I just did a double take and said Hello- I said Hello?! I did... of all the things I should have said, and the second time he said hi to my student and I (who had just rescued me from being trapped in the parking garage)... I can't wait to get in the elevator with him and ask if he does live there- and if that explains the idiotic security going on....

Does anyone have a message they'd like me to pass on? Tee Hee....

Strange that we train teachers for years at great expense to be experts on teaching (we won't let just anyone teach, they have to be trained) and then when these highly trained experts tell us what they need to do their job we feel free to ignore their advice!

Kinda makes me wonder why we spent all that money training them.

Cry me a River!

The BCTF are the greatest whiners almost on the face of BC. The Prime whiner is that Jimmy Sinclair, followed by gthe brainless one from CUPE.

Seems the union folk like great voices that can make the propaganda, even if that information is dead wrong.

The BCTF teachers are paid well, indeed above average. Their classroom issue is bogus even in accordance with their web page under research. If anything, the special needs kids are causing the problem, and perhaps that needs to be addressed, not with additional teachers, but rather removal from the classroom into their own environment.

Quite frankly I can find zero reason why the BCTF needs to complain; after all they are the ones who have refused to negotiate!

Thanks for that very perceptive post, oronym,(1day ago)

And also yours of the same time, spedteacher, re that private school - I've been told of others like it - the primary objective there, though, is not education, but the inculcation of Christian values.

As parent one would expect me to be dismayed by the strike by teachers. However, let me state my bias. I am teacher(almost 20 years in Australia and Canada--public and private schools) and former treasurer of our PAC.

I am supportive! And here are just some of the reasons why:

1) The right to strike is a fundamental right for all those who work, just as employers seem to have the right to lock out employees--funny, I have not heard of an employer being legislated to take people back to work or fined for locking out employees and possibly facing jail.
2) This right is founded on respect and dignity for the work(and its associated rights) that people perform.

3) Teachers are loathe to strike!If there is one thing they loathe , this is it. As professionals they are only too aware of the optics of withdrawing their care and attention to students. So, what this indicates to me is how fed up teachers are with their treatment by this government.

4) this is less about money but about what is important to the professionals who care about our kid's success, it is about more teacher librarians(Note: a spelling bee organized by Canwest and its associated photop's--raise a reader?? and Advertorials does not make a better reader, better access to counselling,
free textbooks??, better teacher/ student ratios(for an eye-opener, check out the websites of the Fraser-ranked Private Schools and their class sizes.
5)When, as John Raulston Saul has stated, we undermine public education we undermine the rules about respect, caring for those less welloff, less fortunate--we undermine what is essentially a Candian characteristic. Moreover, we make it exceedingly difficult for people to become more prosperous since education is a major indicator for better income. If schooling is a commodity(it is not!)then we will see a class system baes on the educational experience--much like what happens in the US.The current claim by this government to create a climate for better educated graduates is hence false as almost 90% of students are educated in public schools.

It seems to me that as a government--that likes to wield the big stick--its tried and true bullying techniques are failing. Just like the playground bully this government is facing a determined underdog( I like rooting for the underdog!)

It would not surprise me if teachers were to decide to resign enmasse because of the unjust and ideological antagonist. What then?

Here I am again, sdgreen lol. I wish I knew how to do that quote thing .. but here goes ...

You said: "The BCTF teachers are paid well, indeed above average." WRONG. We are paid less than teachers in many other provinces (i.e. Ont. and Alberta) and the gap will continue to grow even if we do get an increase one day. Bet you didn't know that BC administrators are the highest paid in the province though, did you? And did you know that teachers gave up wage increases a few times in order to have smaller class sizes and adequate supports for special needs students???

You said: "Their classroom issue is bogus even in accordance with their web page under research." WRONG!!!!! Have you spent time volunteering in a public school recently so you could see the situation firsthand? Have you read all the research stating the obvious that the smaller the class size, the higher the quality of instruction??? I don't know where you come up with your theories but it's certainly not by educating yourself with the true facts. My 9 yr. old son can see that larger class sizes are not the way to go, why can't you??

You said: "If anything, the special needs kids are causing the problem, and perhaps that needs to be addressed, not with additional teachers, but rather removal from the classroom into their own environment." UGHHHH!!!!! I answered that drivel in another post. Enter the new millenium, why don't you????

You said: "Quite frankly I can find zero reason why the BCTF needs to complain; after all they are the ones who have refused to negotiate!" ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!! Do you ever read anything but your own posts? The BCTF was fully prepared to negotiate with BCPSEA but how could they when the government was dictating everything? They (BCPSEA/Liberals) refused to negotiate on class sizes, supports for special needs students, and wages. What's left???? They stalled negotiations before the election because they tried to avoid having education become an election issue. Then they stalled right up to summer vacation. BCTF and BCPSEA met 35 times. I've read all the Bargaining Bulletins. You can too on the BCTF website. See for yourself how BCPSEA stalled and stalled and stalled. And why would they do that? Well obviously because they knew that the Liberals were planning on legislating a contract from the very beginning!!!! Anyone with common sense can see that!!!

The Liberals and no one else have forced this issue. Anyone who's backed into a corner, demoralized, and bullied is going to fight back eventually. Besides, if teachers don't fight for the rights of their students, who will? Certainly not you!!

Christian is quoting John Ralston Saul. A new low on the Tyee.

Burgess: I am afraid I have to disagree with you on placing blame on School Board Trustees for disciplinary actions against incompetent teachers. I do, however, thank you for realizing that BCTF is not involved in the process other than providing support to any teachers in such situations (just as any other union would do for their members). I might not have all of the steps right since I'm going from memory and am fortunate enough never to have been involved in this process but here is how I think it goes:

Principals write reports on teachers. It used to be every 5 yrs. but it's changed and I can't remember how often. The Principal is supposed to conduct observations of the teacher throughout the school year and provide ongoing modelling, input, etc. The report consists of comments from the Principal stating how lessons are conducted, classroom management, extra-curricular activities the teacher participates in, etc. I could describe the format to you exactly but my reports are in my filing cabinet in my classroom and I don't have access to them right now lol. I can tell you that the Principal that wrote my last report just did a cut and paste job using another teacher's report. I know because he forgot to change our names in a few places. In his defense, the other teacher and I had similar jobs .. but still. I have had some very well written and useful reports though. I know my Mom sure liked them lolol.

The end result of this is that the teacher gets a rating of "satisfactory" or "unsatisfactory". If it's satisfactory then things just continue on. Hopefully, there was some constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement in the report and the teacher will act on them. If the report gives an unsatisfactory rating the Principal is supposed to provide guidance to help the teacher improve. I think it takes two or three unsatisfactory reports before it goes further but I'm not sure what happens. I'm sure if you are really interested you could find the details somewhere.

The BCTF is involved in order to provide support for the teacher to improve his/her teaching skills and, if needed, legal support. That's no different than any other union.

So you see, the fault lies in Principals who either aren't willing to go through all the paperwork involved or just don't want to get involved period. The BCTF certainly isn't to blame. I don't believe School Board Trustees are either unless you blame them for the process as a whole, I suppose.

Spedteacher;

The BCTF must not be given the right to specify class composition,or other things that are specifically the responsibility of School Boards.

Teachers are hired to teach in classroom, labs or other places as required.

In as far as salary is concerned, I repeat that teachers are well paid for the work they do. The fact that teachers in Alberta or Ontario might make a little more is not revelent.

According to statistics, there are about 42000 teachers and about 639,840 students. Do the math .. that equals 15.234 students per teacher. According to the BCTF site whose numbers a bit out of date, the ratio equals about 18 students per teacher. So what is the problem here?

I still say that a full review of the special needs students needs to be done. Clearly if some of those students are unable to cope with the classroom environment and do interrupt same, then they ought not to be there. Seems that the criteria for enrollment needs to be tightened. Where we do have the difficult SNStudents, they ought to be put into a separate system, whether in the same school or in a school of their own. Just reading the Ministry of Educations web info for the criteria dealing with SNStudents it appears there is more medical criteria than education stuff.

Teachers are in the public service paid by the taxpayer in an essential service. Successive governments and education authorities have been thwarted by the militant BCTF. Why?

Funding for education is standing at some $5billion dollars and that should be more than sufficient! There is waste and there is non-essential programs in the School Districts plus much duplication. No doubt if we get rid of the creme, then more money would be avail to the pointy end of education.

SDGreen

As the mother of a special needs child, (age 14 mos)and a teacher, I had to laugh when I read your comment that we need to send SN children into "their own environment". The world IS their environment. Would you also recommend that we institutionalize them from birth because they are so inconvenient and expensive to society or should we just expose them at birth? Forgive me if I seem a little emotional about this subject, but I fully expect my daughter with Down syndrome to be enrolled in our neighbourhood school when it is time for her to go to kindergarden. She is already a well known member of our neighbourhood. We will support her as best we can including ensuring that she begins reading at age 3 (which many children with DS do now, thanks to recognition that these children are highly visual learners). If we claim to be a democratic, inclusive society, then we include everyone and fund it appropriately (and we do live in one of the richest nations in the world) or we become hypocrites.

Nemesis:

So is the BC Liberal government illegitimate? Is their mandate of 26% not enough, or can you agree that those who did not come out to vote can't complain.

The BCTF is the most democratic institution that I have ever been apart of. When teachers disagree on what direction we should take, they listen to each other with respect. Over 90% of teachers who came out to vote were in favour of our current actions. That is a strong mandate regardless of what you think. I didn't see any teachers crossing the picketline. We will stay united.

Last spring my smallest class size was 29 students. Most of my classes had 35, one had 37.

Ruby;

Then where are all the teachers ?

Well sdgreen, I'm one of the 42 000, but I don't enroll any students because I'm a teacher librarian. I teach every child in my school and run the library budget, order and catalogue books, run the computer lab, help keep computers and servers functioning, teach parents and teachers, create teaching units...I'll stop the list there. Oh, and because language around ratios of students to teacher librarians was stripped out of my contract, I now do this job for a day and a half a week. So because I don't have a "classroom", another teacher somewhere else has a larger group of students to teach. Maybe we should just close the library altogether. We don't really need information literate students anyways. God forbid they know the difference between unbiased information and propoganda!

sdgreen

I would suggest you dig a little deeper before doing the simple division. The 42000 BCTF members would include all the bodies involved in classroom instruction, including teachers-on-call and all part time teachers regardless of how part time they are. What you need to find out is how many FTEs (full time equivilants) that represents. You also need to factor in that some administrators also have classes but would not show up as BCTF members. This line of reasoning could become fraught with difficulties.

There are a number of reasons why some teachers may not have voted.
1) They knew from talking to colleagues that it was going to pass without any problem. Therefore they didn't travel the 40 miles into town to vote.
2) They felt that they had already given their okay in the first vote for job action. Over 80% of teachers voted for the original job action plan which could have resulted in a full walkout in late October.
3) They are retired teachers, but still members, and felt it was not their place to vote, since they would not be the ones affected. I will note though that retired teachers did show up to support teachers on the picket line.
4) They were on medical leave.

In our area, all teachers were on the picket line. I might add that passers by were overwhelmingly supportive. The honking was so persistent that it was nearly impossible to chat with people on the picket line without yelling.

Part 1

A very good question, sdgreen, "where are all the teachers?"

As cece and star crazy pointed out, there are many teachers who are non-enrolling, part-time, and teacher-administrators that do not belong to the BCTF. Please note that teacher-administrators are often pulled out of the classroom to deal with administrative and safety issues.

Also, there are many teachers in many very rural schools with smaller class sizes (often with multi-grade levels to teach at once), and there are some teachers of moderate and severe behaviour disordered students requiring specialized smaller classes. All of these teachers get lumped in with the totals when students per teachers are figured in. Further, not only are there larger class sizes throughout most of the schools, at the middle schools and high schools, there are now fewer electives available to students.

Non-enrolling teachers include:
Special Ed. specialists, teacher-librarians, Learning Assistance teachers, Counsellors, Speech-Language Pathologists, Hospital-Homebound teachers, Behavioural Specialists, District Resource teachers (in charge of coordinating district resources). Music teachers and some foreign/French language teachers are often non-enrolling. The percentage of non-enrolling teachers has decreased dramatically during the last four years. Workload for non-enrolling teachers (especially Counsellors, Special Ed. and Learning Assistance) has increased due to decreases in other services for students and their families outside of the school, increases in the numbers of special needs students, and paperwork/accountability requirements.

The school is the last stable government body left for many children whose families are dealing with drug addiction; alcoholism; emotional, mental and physical health problems; and issues of poverty. Although this province's very richest are getting wealthier, there are many people, particularly children, who are getting poorer. They bring their problems with them to school. Primary teachers are now dealing with ecstasy/crystal meth. babies. It was hard enough when many were merely cocaine and fetal alcohol babies! We also have a higher proportion of children who are able to survive medical conditions (which would have been fatal in years past) that now leave these children requiring much additional support.

Part 2

Twenty years ago, special needs children were not in the schools (though they always should have been). They were segregated from society, and society shunned them. When they finally were mainstreamed, much of the total cost of keeping these children through the day decreased, because of savings in plant, equipment, administration and teaching staff. Teachers, with open arms, took them on during the eighties and retrained themselves to deal with their needs. BC's teachers made deals with the province that allowed the province to bring in more resources and teachers in at the expense of receiving even modest cost of living raises. Special needs children are in our schools, now, more than ever. The Liberal government took away supports needed for these children and spit in the eyes of the teachers who have sacrificed themselves. The Liberals have now removed targeted funding from many of the special needs children. If they don't exist as a category, they don't need funding, though teachers had still better identify their needs and make allowances.

My wife and I are both teachers. As teachers, we have always worked as hard as we possibly can while still maintaining some of our health and sanity. Teacher workshops on wellness and self-care began to abound when special needs children were brought into the schools. Stress-related leaves and illness are at an all-time high with teachers. Our ability to be successful as teachers has become less possible. When our bosses want something new done, because the Ministry has made a new mandate to be added to all of the still-existing old, we ask them to help us choose what to give up. There is no more time in our lives.

On top of it all other cutbacks have meant that, resources/texts are getting older and our buildings getting shabbier, filthier.

The province has sold off our railroad, our ferries, our oil and gas, control of our electricity, and has removed health-care, social and family services from many interior communities to centres that are hours away. BC, once again, sells whole logs abroad. The Liberals are running schools into ground, schools that were running incredibly efficiently. Schools are not factories, and children are not widgets. The Liberals do the tax-payers no favours by destroying one of the world's greatest education systems. With this education system, just like your home, maintenance can be avoided for a few years; but if you let it go too long, the problems become much more costly to fix than if it were properly maintained all along.

I worked in the private sector for 15 years before becoming a teacher; and, I was successful in the private sector. I began teaching with many notions about how schools needed to change so that kids would have it better. What I didn't know was that schools had already been improving beyond what I had conceived as possible. And now, this government is treating its highly educated and caring teachers in ways I never would have dreamed of treating my worst employees in the private sector.

Whoops, noticed a few typos in the above. How dare I publish without proofreading! My apologies to all English teachers; you taught me better than this.

To SharingIsGood,

Thankyou for your information. Certainly the tasks that you describe would indicate that much administrative and non-teaching functions are being carried out. My question is why?

Seems that the entire process of education has moved to a one that has a foundation based on 'administrative tasks' as opposed to the requisite tasks of teaching. It is interesting to hear your description of 'Teacher Administrators' in which you indicate they are often called out for administrative or safety issues. Why are we wasting time of qualified teachers for administrative and safety issues, I must ask? Does not each school have a Principal and Vice, plus admin staff?

You description applying to Special Needs children is interesting, but still I believe there needs to be a full review of the issue. If the burden is so high, then something is wrong.

Again I must point out that these issues are not confined to the current Liberal government but rather a number of Provincial administrations. The notion that the BCTF should have control over class size and composition or curriculum is nonsense. These issues are the purview of the government, the parents, period.

Your point that government might have reduce or otherwise dispense with some government sevices or enterprizes is noted, however, the question has to be asked what should the government provide, and how much does it cost.

In the case of the railway, government should not be involved in such operation. In the case where modification to some health, etc. services is concerned, the matter if financial resources is the primary cause. Both the NDP and the Liberal governments can critisize the Federal Governments for not only those, but also resources for education.

Your points are lucid, but at waht cost?

Thanks for your insight.

Why sdgreen? Because the Ministry of the Education says so. There is much more accountability in our schools today than there once was. It is good that schools need to be accountable for the services they provide but there is a cost when it's taken too far. I haven't been able to actually teach students because I've been so busy completing assessments, applications for support for learning disabled students (do you want them segregated too??????), scheduling of TA time, completing school-wide assessments, arranging and conducting School-Based Team meetings, dealing with behaviour problems exhibited by special needs AND "regular" ed. students, etc. I'm aiming to have my groups start by Nov., if I'm lucky. I'm included in that count of 42,000 teachers and, when I'm lucky enough to have time to teach, I have a maximum of 6-7 students with me. Not because I'm lazy or want a lighter caseload but because it's the best way to provide effective remediation.

And, as I've told you before, many elementary schools do NOT have Vice Principals. We had one before 2002 though. Our school had to scramble in order to find the funds to keep our Principal in the office full-time. Teachers wanted her full-time because otherwise classroom teachers would have to deal with the extreme behaviour problems, etc. that she takes care of.

I forgot to tell you in previous posts I think, but when there was enough support for special needs students ALL students benefitted. Students who function as low academically as the special needs students but don't receive funding from the Ministry were able to "piggyback" on these services. That's not as possible anymore since the TA time is spread too thin.

Ohh and FYI, Speech-Language Pathologists aren't teachers, therefore, not included in the 42,000.

Spedteacher;
I can only say that a situation with an incompetent teacher who had had several 'unsatisfactory' reports was transfered to our school for 'rehabilitation' had another unsatisfactory report and the principal was made to change the document by the assistant superintendant to satisfactory. The board officials backed the change. This teacher went on to wreck havoc in several more schools. The BCTF was 'blamed' for the problems because they supported this person.

There are two ways I know of, and that applies to all the formatting features above, but the easiest is to just hold down the left button on your mouse, starting at the beginning of what you want to quote or embolden etc,, and drag your mouse over the entire quote or whatever. (Releasing the left button at the end.) This should highlight your selection. Then simply select the appropriate button above.

Hope that helps, Spedteacher. :-)

Burgess,

I see that the Principal changed the unsatisfactory report under the direction of the Asst. Superintendent. BCTF (I assume) provided support to that teacher just as any other union is required to do. How can the BCTF be blamed for defending the incompetent teacher? Doesn't sound to me as though a member of the BCTF changed the document. I know that members of unions in pulp mills (I use this as an example because my ex is a pulp mill worker) make grievances, etc. all the time. Their union has to back them up whether the Exec. or whoever agrees with it or not. That's just a part of the function of any union, correct?

To tell you the truth, there are many teachers out there who would love to see incompetent teachers leave their staff. They make more work for the rest of us. I've heard teachers say "Why doesn't the Principal do something about this???" but I only know of one teacher in 18 yrs. who received an unsatisfactory report. But, of course, it's not like anyone would announce such a thing. I know I never have anyway lolol.

The BCTF has pledged that any member who undergoes disciplinary action as a result of our current job action will receive full financial support. Does this make them nasty too? At least it will be the BCTF who pays legal costs and not the taxpayers. Wasn't it taxpayers who paid Gordo's legal fees?????? And who do you think paid for the legal costs when Gordo was sued for libel due to the lies told about the BCTF and a bogus strike vote immediately before the election? I don't know about you, but I've never heard him or any other member of the government say "Oooops guess we were wrong and we lied but it helped us win the election, so who cares", have you?

Hi again, sdgreen,

Teacher-administrators are principals (in small schools) and vice-principals (in larger schools) that have had teaching duties added to their jobs. Also, if a principal is away from a school - to a meeting, a teacher is then left in charge of the school with no T.O.C. (substitute teacher) brought in. From there we move to a behaviour problem - be it visiting adult or child, and someone must deal with it.

By and large, most kids are great, but you must consider that in the 60s and 70s, about half of the students graduated from high school. We now have a provincial 85% graduation rate. You must also realize that schools are also dealing with issues related to the legacy left behind from residential schools. We First Nations language and culture issues that we deal with daily. The Ministry's own figures suggest we could never expect better than 90-95% graduation. Further, many advanced Grade 12 courses (like science and math courses) are a full year ahead of courses taught a generation ago. Our top students are fantastically skilled and knowledgeable.

Again, English teachers, my apologies.

Hey Spedteacher,

If you think that taxpayers, and by that I mean the people that only get they're money from the private sector, don't pay into the BCTF you have got to give your head a shake. You see we pay into the government they pay you and then you contribute to the BCTF. Teachers can't even count themselves as a taxpayers as they essentially just take less from the government than they would if it didn't hold it back.

One more thing... and I think I already know the answer to this but if its so bad why not either quit...

I know, I know, "we love the kids"

Or, why not start a private school owed, operated, and run by teachers for teachers. If there is enough support I imagine there would be a great demand for such a thing...

Ofcourse their would be the worry of losing ones' job if you couldn't sell yourselves...
Better safe than sorry I guess.

Everyone should realise that in the not to distant past only the wealthy, those who could afford a doctor to supervise in the birthing room(often in the home)had special-needs children who were then segregated from society.
The lower classes who depended on Grand mothers to be, Aunts and midwives in birthing rooms ended up with unfortunate still-births.
No one today advocates this reality, but, history is history.
Let's get on with it. Today's reality has shown us that our civilisation is richer because of our compassion for the less fortunate.
Too bad that Gordo and co. lack this empathy.

Nice blather Rocky. What a crock!

Bill, you should pay more attention to your tax forms when you talk to your accountant. Very little of the taxes that you pay are going to provincial income tax. The bulk of your taxes are federal, and they only are involved in first nations education funding. I, as a teacher, pay my share of taxes including pst, gst, liquor taxes, etc. and federal income tax.

I guess I should be grateful to the Fiberals for their whopping tax break that I got in 2002(I think) only to suddenly have to pay for eye exams, chiropratic visits, physio therapy, and parking in provincial parks just to name a few.

On top of that, Gordon and the club have given your hard earned tax dollars and mine to a few corporations, who are obviously needing it in this horrible economy that we have, a break to the tune of over 400 million this year alone.

If what the Global news says is true, a 1% raise to the 174,000 government empolyees that are currently or soon to be without (March 2006) a contract, would only cost 150 million in one year. These 174,000 people are most likely going to spend the money here in BC as apposed to using it to line the pockets of the foreign owned corporate schmucks who only care about the bottem line for investment firms.

My five cents.

Hey Phude

I guess you don't understand...if it weren't for the taxes that the private sector pays...the government would have NO money to give to you...to allow you to pay pst, gst, liquor taxes, etc

Commence the shaking of the head now please.

Bill, about those ridiculous Neo-Con talking points such as the one directly above which implies the public sector employees don't own their wages, which they work for, because those wages come from we taxpayers...

Perhaps you should try and think them through a bit.

As a student (admittedly in a private school), I'm wondering what the problem is here. Teachers need more money, government has more money... I mean, what else does the government do with profit? They have to use it for something other than throwing handfuls in the air and jumping for joy...

Maybe they could let the taxpayers keep more of the money they make.

Having said that I would link all public sector wages to the cost of living index.

WOW,I can hardly believe some of the comments from some parents in the general public...I know many are supportive of our teachers fight but the ones who seem to whine and complain the most all seem to have some kind of agenda for themselves. I have talked to many young students who know how bad class size is in their school. One young women told me that if they (students) were last to get to their class they had to stand, sit on the floor or share the teachers desk if he/she was not using it. I also work in the system and I am fully aware what goes on in the public schools in regard to spending or really lack of spending due to under funding. Yes everyone should be entitled to an education but when there are no desks and no decent materials to work with, (somethimes the students in my school have to share textbooks). And NOT near enough teachers aides to deal with the going number of students with assistant needs. Be they ESL, LAC, or special needs students the list are endless. A class of ten, twenty, or thirty years ago did not have the numbers of students that need some kind of asistance that they do today. From, lets say 1% then to 70% today how can we expect teachers to educate our students when they have more students in their classes today that need some kind of special need???? Really lets support our teachers who need us to help the goverment see the whole picture not just the next five to six years. OUR TEACHERS deserve BETTER than to be treated like pions by the current goverment.

Bill says "having said that I would link all public sector raises with cost of living index" (or it was soomething like that, I don't know how to do the quote thing - Coyote, on a Mac, there's no right or left click - can you help me out?)
Anyway, linking teachers raises to cost of living would be great! In the past 10 years, we have averaged 1% increase per year, but the cost of living has increased approx 3%. Teachers have had 10% increase while COL has gone up 30%! COL raises sounds good to me!

Hey Gail,
I haven't figured out the quote thing on a mac either. But, click mouse button on text, hold button down and sweep it across to highlight text. Then you can copy (apple C), click back into the text box and paste (apple V). That way, at least, you have text verbatim and don't have to type it out.

As a teacher, at first I was disturbed by the postings of the naysayers. Now I see their purpose - to strengthen our resolve!

I do so hope that I won't be branded one for asking, but what exactly is a neocon?

The Tyee opened my eyes to this new, unfamiliar term and I spent hours last night researching on the web and ended up going round and round in circles.

Any quick definitions or a website link with a good definition?

neo-conservative

Another comment on class size and the ratio of pupils to teachers. Even dividing the number of pupils in a given school by the number of teachers will not give you the real class size. To do that, at least for an elementary school, you need to first eliminate the librarian & the LAT. Then divide the total students by the number of homerooms (not teachers, as some are part-time). That will give you an average. By law (Bill 28), school districts are now allowed to place up to 22 children in a K class and 24 in a gr. 1, 2 or 3 class (this is 2 more than our prior contract allowed). Above grade 3, the sky is the limit. However, school boards are supposed to meet a target of a district-wide average. I teach gr. 1 & 2, and I know the target average for primary is 19. But I have 24 children in my classroom, the maximum. I am not whining, just stating a fact.

It is very easy for people who want to make it look like class sizes are smaller than they are to divide the district-wide school population by the total number of FTE (full-time teacher-equivalents), including those educators (all BCTF members) who do not have a classroom (librarian, LAT, counsellors, resource room teachers, speech & language specialists, Special Ed consultants, etc.

Where should class-size and class composition provisions be determined and guaranteed? Of course, the ideal place would be at the school level, based on need. In an inner-city school like mine, with so many needy children, a case could be made for smaller class sizes than in a school with fewer needs. However, despite the Education Minister stating a few weeks ago that the best place to settle class size & compositon matters is the School Planning Council (principal, one teacher, a few parents & a student if at high school, unless the government allows school boards more money to fund such initiatives, it will only be an exercise in frustration. A 'sound good' message from Bond, another 'pass the buck' stategy.

This shameful display of militant education union arrogance and sense of entitlement put on by B.C. teachers is exactly what the Dalton McGuinty government faced in Ontario not long ago.

Institutional arrogance run amok.

Instead of holding the line on costs with legislation, then setting improvement goals tied to wages as the British Columbia government has done, Dalton gave our militant teachers the money up front, then made the testing procedure less accountable by making it easier to pass, guaranteeing an “improvement” when the teachers fail to deliver the goods, as is the norm in brain-dead Ontario.

The only thing children really learn from the example B.C. Teachers have set is if you don’t get your own way, just break the law to get it. Look how easy it is to get something you never earned nor rightly deserve.

It’s the easy way out.

But breaking the law is the very worst example for teachers to set for the kids and public they are highly paid to serve, yet they serve themselves first, always.

Markalanwhittle, you are spamming the boards when you cut and past across the topics!

Writerdave,

here you go.... try to make sense of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)

The term sometimes gets used a little fast and loose on this site.

Hey, but this is only a blog.

markalan spittle.

Read the article above the commentaries,or if you are unable to comprehend it have someone else read it to you.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5010.htm

This is an interesting article about neo-conservatism.

I go further and call it a cult.
I think many proponents are 'indoctrinated' in university when they are not yet wise enough to sort through it's inherent fascism. It is so self-serving and some people may be more vulnerable due to addiction issues and personality traits, as is the case in most cults.

The voucher system has been 'a loser' in almost every area where it is used. In Pueblo, Colorado it was instrumental in the closing of several neighbourhood schools as parents started to play 'musical chairs' vouchers. Everyone lost. In Chicago's West End the local school district's board was 'usurped' by the wealthy for the benefit of so-called public/private schools. The voucher system along with control of the Schools boards saw inner cityschool budgets cut to about $200 while the wealthier neighbourhood schools saw increases in the $2,000 range per student - plus the voucher.
The voucher system is a rip-off by the rich for their own benefit. This is not a left/right issue but one of unbridled greed.

The voucher supporters need to do some real honest research instead of blindly citing the propaganda published by right wing and vested interests who do not want educational spaces being taken by the so called underclass (their term not mine) to the detriment of their own offspring. Can't have a bright kid from the slums taking a seat at a university, college etc. which just may keep Joe Rich kid whose only talent is family connections and $$$ out.

I do not think a voucher system in the general sense or indeed the notion of privatization of the school system makes a lot of sense.

It seems that we need to sit back a take a total new look on how we deliver education in BC, bottom up. In my view the concept of School Trustees and School Districts should be abolished and replaced with more power given to the Principals at each school.

The BCTF should also be abolished and in its place, common specifications of their current master agreement enshined within the school act. In the case of education, no union should have any power over what, how curriculum is taught. Teacher salaries should be recalculated based on a 'basket' obtained from a number of Canadian Provinces possibly some other representative international education institutions, then defined for each level of instruction. Appropriate COL increases should then be automatically provided in a similar manner as government pensions.

Workloads need to be reviewed and rationalized. The 'special needs' student system needs to be reviewed, and rationalized. The power of the classroom teacher needs to be reviewed relative to disciplinary and adjudication along with qualifications.

We need to establish a firmbase on how we deliver education, then identify costs.

I stronly believe there is sufficient taxpayer dollars available in the current allocation that would allow for satisfactory support for teacher salaries, and enhanced teaching support.

Right now, while have funding numbers from several resources, I am not certain that those numbers have been reviewed for value.

We can not just keep throwing more money into the system for whatever without knowing the bottomline.

Yah! Right!~ More boneheaded thinking on the school system what sdgreen advocates is anarchy.

To Burgess;

Anarchy, in what way?

lolol considering that BC administrators are the highest paid in Canada, maybe you should start look there first, sdgreen.

Let's see ....

When establishing their funding formula, the government didn't take into account for ...

- increased heating costs
- increased transportation costs
- increased telephone costs

I could go on but you won't read them all anyway.

When Shirley Bond was chairperson of the Prince George school board, she was constantly protesting against the inadequacies of the funding formula used by the Ministry of Education. She protested, and rightly so, that school districts north of Hope had higher heating costs, transportation costs, etc. and this should be factored into the funding formula. She also argued that there had to be some sort of incentive to lure teachers away from the Lower Mainland to some of the more remote areas of the province. She was constantly telling us (as the Board was announcing cuts to education) that it was the government and lack of funding that was causing this problem. I do have to give her and the rest of her Board members credit though. They kept the cuts from the classroom as long as humanly possible. Instead of cuts that adversely affected students' learning and teachers' working conditions, they cut maintenance, janitorial service, etc. This meant that our classrooms were not as clean and sanitary as before because the custodians could only do so much in the time allotted. It also meant that repairs in the school took longer because there were fewer people to do them. You should see the litter and broken glass in the playground in my school. It is disgusting. Teachers on playground duty pick up the glass but we are out there to supervise students, not do the Grounds Keeper's job.

sdgreen, I will put forth this proposal to you once again. Spend some time in a BC public school. Put in some volunteer time (assuming you would pass the criminal record check ). See firsthand what's going on in our schools. See how hard the teachers and CUPE staff work to do the best that they possibly can for our students. Then, and only then, are you qualified to make any kind of judgement about our schools. You are blaming the wrong people!! Teachers do their best to make up for the shortcomings of the government but we can only do so much!!!!!!

To Spedteacher;

Once again you support my call for a complete overhaul of the education system. Your comment concerning Bond is interesting as obviously when she was Board Chair, the NDP were in power. So while the NDP frittered away millions on pulp mills ferries et al, education went perhaps might have gone short, ALTHOUGH annual gross budgets to education do not indicate any meanful cuts.

I must say that I am well aware what goes on on in the education system. In fact worked in the Ministry of Education for some 15 years and exposed to a number of challenges in support of the k-12 system. I retired in 2003. I must also indicate that during my time, I did have the opportunity to visit schools and school boards, and indeed was amazed at what I would consider ill begat waste, especially at the District level.

We do need to get more money at the 'class room' level and that is why I strongly believe there is sufficient money to do so.

The matter of school resources is interesting. Early in the 90's the Min of Ed maintained a central text book centre in Victoria. This, the Learning Resource Branch, was responsible to order and distribute text books and other learning resources. On examination the cost to maintain this centre was identified as enormous. Piece contracts were established with text book publishers in order for Districts to order there needs. The bottom line as I recall, some addional 12 to 15 million bucks in savings were released to the Districts for learning resources. Now I know that text books, films etc do cost a lot, and indeed likely have escalated over the last several years.

I am also aware that certainly over the last 10 years the matter of school construction to meet earthquake and other issues has been a hot topic. A very large year over year capital budget has been given to the Ministry to deal with these issues.

So the problem is, where does all the money go, how much is wasted and how can we optimise the whole system. That is why we need to review the entire system.

Again I point out that teachers are reasonably paid now. Perhaps a COL % is in order.

The problem is that there is only so much tax dollars available for all the program pressures confronted government. This is not a new message all governments of all stripes have been wrestling with the very same issue.

None the less, education funding has faired reasonably well, certainly much better than forests, highways and a number of other government programs. With the exception of two years under the NDP government where the budget remained essentially neutral, education funding has gone up over the last 15 years, in most cases substantially over the cpi. The question is, where is this funding allocated within system and what is the value per dollar?

sdgreen????? Where does all the money go? Hmmmm, Administration and administrators MLA'S and Council members and the Leaders of our province sit on some grossly overpaid positions in this province. There are also way too many deptmental positions in every work place. Look at the TWU depute and what their members are fighting for and then look at what the "BOSS" of Telus makes per year. Go one step further and break his wage down and you are looking at $3000.00 an hr. IS ANYONE WORTH THAT KIND OF SALARY??? I don't think so It's absolutely vulgar. Where Does all the money go? Good question.

First off, I do support the teachers action (and feel it should go to a general strike to take the government down a peg). Many good points by Gabriel Yiu and from other comments in response. VERY true that the entire education system needs a thorough overhaul. There is far too much waste, and far too little being directed to where it is really needed, including for funds going to parents who wish to choose alternate education systems (ie: home schooling, private school, distance learning, etc.). The formulas for allocating funds for the various needs are completely out of context from what any responsible person would imagine. ESL should NOT be covered from regular education funds, but if Canada needs to be that 'generous' with our CANADIAN tax dollars, then perhaps it could be funded from foreign aid or some other ministry instead of education. Something I DO find confusing... if we have an estimated 42,000 teachers and an estimated 600,000 students, that works out to less than 14 1/2 students per teacher. Well, if that IS the case, then perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong in how our public schools are being administered? Even if each teacher had a few special needs students or learning disabled students in their class, with a class that small, than every teacher should be able to handle those extra needs without too much assistance? Class size has ALWAYS been an issue, and these numbers do not make sense to the average parent. But in regards to the strike, kudos to the teachers. This is a UNIONIZED province/country. Unions negotiate a "contract" for their members. It is the GOVERNMENT that has breached the contract by failing to negotiate, and that is an extremely important point to make (hence the general strike would likewise make sense). Government cannot pick and choose which contracts they will honour. Government has breached the contract with the teachers by bringing in legislation instead of bargaining, so THEY are in the wrong and the teachers should be supported, no matter what their demands are in this particular instance. The courts are just as much in the wrong, since they are seeking to fine the teachers, rather than to fine the government who is at fault for breaching the contract. That is totally opposite from the way business and contracts are traditionally handled in the courts. The breach by the government came before the strike by the teachers who acted because of the breach by the government. Many ways to look at it, but even binding arbitration would have been more reasonable and acceptable than the action the government took. As for our Premier Campbell visiting other provinces to promote affairs with First Nations, well BC is full of First Nations students out of school right now, and he should be putting BC's First Nations issues FIRST. Typical of many of today's politicians though, who can't see beyond their own salary and their own pensions.

freefallcrusader: The 42,000 teachers includes: librarians, counsellors, learning assistance, resource teachers etc. as well as teachers who teach part time or are on medical or educational leave, so simply dividing the number of students by the number of teachers doesn't work.

Oops! I forgot to mention TOCs (subs), and they count for quite a large number of BCTF members

Moat and RedRiverGirl, thanks for the links... I think. Now I'm more confused than ever. neocon means a whole lot and nothing, all at the same time.

I am a new teacher. I completely support this protest against an unfair law, that imposed a contract on us, after a promise by the government to ensure collective bargaining would take place. The current imposed contract is the stripped down contract that was imposed in 2002, and the BCPSEA did not participate in any kind of bargaining process, probably because they knew that they would be supported by the kind of unfair legislation the Liberals did choose to pass.

Here's an idea (not mine, but so good I wanted to pass it on)for parents experiencing financial difficulties because of daycare costs during the job action: Instead of engaging in a class-action suit, how about asking your MLA to contribute the money the government is saving on teachers' salaries towards daycare for parents. I cannot think of a better use for my salary. Perhaps any remainders could be donated to DPAC's around the province.

ps Anyone who thinks that most teachers can afford to reduce our income to strike pay, is sorely misguided. I am going to experience severe hardship as a result of this job action, that I nonetheless willingly undertake because I passionately believe in a strong public education system.

Gail, don't forget that number also includes retired teachers who continue to pay BCTF dues. Governments so enjoy playing with numbers, don't they? I understand the number of teachers has now been determined to be 38,000.

freefallcrusader: There are various courses in high schools that have very few students in them. I'm an elementary teacher so I'm just going on memory but there are classes like Chem. 12, etc. with small numbers. There are special education teachers such as myself who don't have any students enrolled in a class but they provide educational service and support to every single student in the school (directly or indirectly). (That's why I LOVE the idea of paying me as a daycare ... $5/hr x the 5 hr. day the government says I work x 301 students. Ohhh then I would be as highly paid as our MLAs!!! lolol). There are rural schools with small class sizes but have to stay open because they are so remote. Even the Fiberals wouldn't dare close those schools.

So when the government / school boards calculate their class averages, do you understand now why it's so easy for them to stay within class averages yet still have Gr. 7 classes with 35 students or shop classes with 36???? The class average for my school district is 30 intermediate students in a class. Every single one of our intermediate classes was OVER 30 last year. (We had two intermediate teachers go on medical leave last year. Can you blame them????) All but one of our intermediate classes this year is over the district average too but the district still manages to maintain their status quo. I truly do not understand why people can comprehend that governments manipulate numbers all the time to suit their purposes but when teachers point out what they are doing in our schools we are called whiners.

You make me proud, jjst!!!!! Good for you for being committed to the defense of public education and taking the time from what I'm sure is an extremely busy working life to keep yourself informed!!!

What a good idea regarding the daycare!! It won't happen though, unfortunately. The Liberals wouldn't want to paint a positive picture in any of this, after all. Sad huh?

The real truth is we have a Drunkard (Gordo)for a Dictator, drugs going through our Liberal Finance Ministry in Victoria, a trial (Bassi Boys) that's still in the courts, Why
has this all been hushed up?
Federal Liberals who are so Corrupt and the list goes on...
severance packages of astronomical proportions for crooks plus a fat pension. makes me sick
OUR TEACHERS ARE WORTH OUR WALKING OUT IN SUPPORT WITH A GENERAL STRIKE!

Thank you BC Dude!

Given the court's decision, I sure hope that you and any other union members across this province will contact their locals and call for a general strike.

This fight is not just about public education. The results will have far-reaching ramifications for ALL workers in BC, unioniezed or not. We are at a cross roads. If the BC libs can get away with treating teachers (and consequently all our children) in this way, they will see it as a green light for treating everyone else the same way when the next round of "bargaining" comes up. The effect of squashing the unions will only be detrimental to non-union members as well.

Mr. Yiu ran as an NDP candidate in Burnaby-Willingdon in the last provincial election, and his view is predictable. This is his power struggle. This political hyperbole actually contained very little fact.
Both parties involved in this battle are mostly bankrupt of any novel thought. The solutions are best made without the NDP's BCTF or the Liberal's rep.s at all, but by teachers, students, parents and other professionals. This is not time for a political war, where the innocent bystanders (the students and public in general) lose the most. The solution lies in extracting the process for determination of improvements in our educational system away from these two power groups. Mr. Yiu here only adds to the traditional problem in BC by greasing his political agenda, looking for votes and followers. Who next, Socred Stan Hagen? Come on. I say Boo, find an intellectual to write articles, and stop feeding us propoganda.