Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Good slogan, hey? I'll say this about the labour movement. It does great slogans, great posters and great songs. Did you ever hear 'Euphoria' by the Nihilist Spasm Band? A case could be made that these things are true cultural art forms. Working class art. And I suppose the things people write on picket signs might be a kind of poetry.

The labour movement is arguably the central force behind the growth of Democracy in the world. Nothing else has spread so far so quickly as Democracy, and the power of unified labour has driven that spread. Even when betrayed, as it has been often, by governments, by Communists, by Anarchists, by Republicans, the insistance by working people that they will remain democratic has always steered the course of the next step.

Since the revolutions began, nobody has ever successfully reestablished a feudal system anywhere in the world, I think. That's something. Remember that all governments everywhere in the old world were feudal until the revolutions began, and had been for thousands of years. Remarkable.

Here's a link to wikipedia's article on International Labour Day. Happy Labour Day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Labor_Day

what is really incredible to me is the exceptance of this by the average Canadian, then they blame union workers for being greedy, perception is everything isn't it! Tell a lie often enough and it becomes truth.

This is one person at the top of telus, what about all the others like the cfo board of directors managers, this greed at the top has killed more then one company and will probably kill more.

Go to New Orleans and see how corporate America cares for the poor, black people. All they care is how to further screw Canada on soft wood and make huge profits on gas.

Unions, love them or hate them, are a neccessary evil in today's global ecconomy.

..A fine article - thank you. It is time that society realizes that it is the working person keeping the rich and that our system is, in fact a disguised form of feudalism. Wealth does not "trickle down", it "floods up". How many workers does it take to create the economic value awarded an exessively highly paid CEO?

The less affluent working masses are discriminated against in just about every economic form: unfair taxes, RRSP regulations, travel cost differences, interest rates, right down to the difference in cost between buying 6 bagels or 2 bagels. If you can afford volume or waste, you merit a better deal! Who pays most for a flight? - an employee (no write-offs) with a family which includes students who conscienciously attend school (must travel high season). Who receives the lowest interest rates on savings? The smallest accounts. Economic reporting is based on the flow of money on paper, not the quality of life. (Read John Raulston Saul - "The Collapse of Globalism", if you can spare enough time from work.)

Merely "having a job" is to be your greatest aspiration. Consider this possibility for all B.C. workers, union and non-union. Agree on a payday. Stock up on all necessities for one week. Pay your bills, if you can. Then hold "Worker Saving Week". Don't spend. No frills, no treats, no non-necessities, no going out to eat or going to the pub, no gas, no travel except to work. Then it might be seen who is investing in B.C. Also, such action might save a little of that paycheck, instead of taking it away, as general strikes do.

Instead of trying to impress foreign companies, who take advantage of low labour costs, force local small businesses out of the market, then remove the profits, we need to support government representatives who have credible plans to improve workers' standard of living and who have a plan to encourage B.C. businesses to expand. If globalism is the new world feudal system, the B.C. working person is presently looking at openings in the "serfdom" department.

The action taken by unions, by the way, is the only hope for worker organization, worker unity, media coverage, or reasonable remuneration.

Imagine yourself as an unemployed or downsized worker in the Katrina-flooded area and coming upon an Entwhistle-like CEO or accomplice. The law to register guns starts to make a lot of sense.

Such people who have managed to struggle to the top of the dungheap, or were deposited there, are members of a club as organized as any labor union. It is a mistake to see them as "individuals".

The bottom line has gone global and has made many workers as expendable to some as the Iraqi collateral casualty or Katrina's victims.

Funny how the labour movement re-introduces racism to whip up support. In the early part of the 20th century, the BC labour movemnent used to be one of the biggest proponents of a "whites only" policy to keep out the yellow peril.

Now in the early 21st century, George Heyman is talking about unworthy jobs in the Philippines. Hey George, what if they're union jobs? Would that be OK, or only if they're here, done by nice clean cut white people like you?

Martin... A parallel drawn by someone who recognizes that government relief has been a long-time coming for the primarily African-American people and that there has been no government relief offered to labour in all of their elitist-oriented legislation is NOT the labour movement "whipping up support" with a race card. It is a recognition of the disparity between how classes of society are treated - not races!

Telus is a company whose value has been built and paid for by hardworking Canadians. Why should 1000's of jobs be lost by those same Canadians and why should our economy not benefit by the revenues generated here in Canada? The only ones who would profit from Telus' intention to outsource to another country is the CEO's and shareholders who obviously have pretty well-padded pockets already!

This has nothing whatsoever to do with racism... The locked-out employees are comprised of all races who don't even notice the color of each other's skins! Don't even go there unless of course, you want to compare the likes of Telus' CEO & Board of Directors with O.J. who got away with murder because of his money...

Silken

What Labour Day means to me.....

http://tinyurl.com/9uzna

.

Something very simple often seems to be forgotten,and that is,"What unions want for themselves,they want for all."The equivalent for big business is, Maximization of profit at any cost.Think about it!

Interesting observation about the Telus situation: Unionized employees are locked out. Management does employees' work. Company still gets the job done. Ergo: management jobs are the ones that should be cut.

Apologies, messed up the URL above.

Here's the corect one.

http://tinyurl.com/7evlh

.

I'm surprised Ron Erwin hasn't commented yet, just further proof that he is on some corporation's payroll. I hope this rally is a sign that the Union message is gaining some momentum again. We need to fight to keep what little we still have. If we aren't able to keep the fair wages, benefits and education we fought for, for our children, then we have lost.

Yes, Jack. We're definitely due for some major labour reform in this country.

Happy Labour Day, everyone!

It is a sorry thing that Labour Day remains a celebration of labour's failures — such as these three labour leaders' litany of outstanding disputes — rather than a celebration of successes such as the minimum wage, 40-hour week (and the weekend!), universal healthcare, the breadth of our expanding if still-inadequate political freedoms.

The outstanding disputes are real, yes, and important for the workers involved, but for one day — and whatever happened to May Day, the real Labour Day? — why cannot labour voices speak of an overarching vision rather than the nuts and bolts and of current disputes. Inasmuch as the groundrules of industrial disputes are set by governments and employers, this cedes the agenda to those with no sympathy for labour's goals nor for the general public's hopes. It is, literally, reactionary.

Who in the general public believes that "what we wish for ourselves we wish for everyone"? Who sees much evidence of this? Instead of articulating what this kind of solidarity has meant and might yet mean for ordinary workers, union and non-union, we get an article like this in effect composed from press releases likely written by the speech writers and not by the authors named, who in any case are the perpetually re-elected paid militants of virtually apolitical industrial unions.

There is cynicism — or defeatism — in this inability to take the high ground. Today's unions could give substance to their loftier rhetoric if they put their efforts into more organizing, both in workplace signups and in broader social advocacy. Then Labour Day could be a day to articulate and celebrate a vision of hope for all the "wretched of the earth," Phillipine workers included.

Wait until you hear the Pacific Press/Global vitriol if the teachers go out.

jackrussell,

Your puzzling over Ron Erwin, Jack:

Don't hold your breath. I've found that a straw man/woman is as reproducable as a pseudonym and that a message board operator may have a limitless supply of those ;-)

It's not an original thought but all non-union workers freeload on organized workers and their history - some actively and knowingly.

The battle is to win those that are ignorant of that history, and the benefits it has brought to our lives.

A website sponsored by labour movement, publishing fluff pieces about the labour movement. You better call ole Donny Gutstein to do a report outlining the gross inbalance in the reporting on thetyee.

Osaka Jo - did you ever think about the other view. The managers (a fraction of the workers compared to the locked out employees) can do the job of the "workers" who far out number them. How about fire the workers since the managers can do a better and more efficient job.

Jim, you should crawl back under the rock you crawled out from, before you get hurt.

Jim,

Sure I've thought of the other side. But these managers are working 12-hour days, 6 days a week. Glad the unions fought for better working conditions than that! Of course, the managers are only working those shifts during strikes and lockouts. Once this one is over, you can bet they'll be back to their nine-to-five shifts, brought about through union activism.

And the bottom line remains: Telus is operating without managers. Perhaps those people shouldn't have been promoted to their position of incompetance in the first place, since they seem better suited to front-line work.

And in case you're wondering, I've worked for both sides, and am now happily self-employed. But I certainly appreciate what the labour movement has accomplished, even though I don't always agree with the way they run their own business.

Just think of how poorly off Telus employees would be if they weren't unionized.

Actually Jim, many of the managers became managers because they couldn't stand working with the clients anymore. I know of several on my unit who trained as client reps and after "serving their time" applied to get away from the clients as fast as they possibly could. There are approximately 25,000 staff... approx. 13,700 are bargaining unit employees. The rest are managers.. Our positions are being filled by both existing and ex-managers as well as by replacement workers. You might want to think about these simple facts!

Silken

I agree with Luceo who writes:

We've been so totally brainwashed by our elites that we are unable to see the modern parallels with Feudalism. The working-person is now seen as a tool to be "managed" at the lowest cost possible. We are no longer partners in Capitalism, but costs to it - serfs who must be fed and housed.

Like the aristocrats of old upon whom the King was dependant upon for his power, so too now with our governments and the Corporations. We are becoming as powerless as the serfs of old.

Just Me thinks:

IMHO, Just Me, you seem unable to recognise that all those good things - in the attainment of which our grandfathers got their heads bashed in by company goons, and political activists spent years of their time campaigning for - are now disappearing at breakneck speed, far faster than the time it took to get them.

Complacency is why we're now arrived at this situation, and militancy is the only way out of it. We won't get there by assuming these people are governed by common decency

The corporate world is the feudal system returned and we are the serfs and we are the peasants...just better disguised now through the wonders of corporate image control...

everything's about advertising these days...smoke and mirrors...how things appear..not what they actually are...

so that even quite a lot of the working poor have bought their masters selling job and are quite content to be the nouveau serfs and the nouveau peasants...which sounds oh-so-sophisticated and modern and makes us all feel better...like we are actually part of the corporate team...and we dress the part... as we work for less and less...curtseying and bowing to our masters as they take more and more.

So I'm with scylla on the complacency issue, as it seems too many serfs these days just don't want to believe that's what they have become...and seem way too comfortable waiting hand and foot on their corporate lords and ladies.

'The labour movement is arguably the central force behind the growth of Democracy in the world. Nothing else has spread so far so quickly as Democracy, and the power of unified labour has driven that spread. Even when betrayed, as it has been often, by governments, by Communists, by Anarchists, by Republicans, the insistance by working people that they will remain democratic has always steered the course of the next step.' And for that, Bailey, you win the blather of the year award. Hands down, no contest.

What we need is a Canada and US general strike on a designated date than lets see how well these goof corporations go on about business in the future.
Imagine the US and Canada shut down tight for one day,love it.
Crush the mother F's

Canada and the U.S. could manage just fine without unionized workers filthy. In fact the economy would boom.

Oh wouldn't it be sooo good nemesis. The economy would boom?? The profits, shareholder stock values, and dividends would boom, but the people in our society? Serfdom. Can you not see the ultimate outcome of a total corporate takeover, wresting what little power organized labour has away from workers? Richer rich folk. Much poorer majority. It's the snake devouring it's tail - and all for the gods known as greed, growth, and profit that you seem to worship. Fool.

The working class,
can kiss my ass,
I got the foremans job at last.
And so on as the ditty goes and well explains the labour movement. For those who work for large corporations, they need union protection or starve. But once the same people improve their lot, well then unions are bad.

We all hate the Ferry, Teacher or Transit unions, but nary a voice is raised for the Doctors, lawyers or proffessional engineer unions. Oh yes I forgot, they are not unions, they are associations, silly me.

Unions are bogeyman of the taxpayer, and governments who think the common man is not worth a fair wage.

The first thing I learned in a business management corse, there is no such thing a s fair wage, as wages are negotiated between employer and worker. The unions empower the worker to negotiate for more. The same can be said for associations and such. It's all the same, only unions are scapegoated.

I do not belong to a union but lived by my wits for the past 25 years being self-employed.

Says Grumpy:

Here's another well-known management dictum: "If you're not going ahead, you're falling behind". But it's OK, I suppose, if Labour gets left behind as Capital pursues growth.

the neocon line goes:

Who gives a tinker's dam if the "economy" booms if it's done on our backs? Perhaps we should feel happy it will fund more wars we can fight for the bastards??

I have beem a union man all my working life to help make this beutiful country a better place. If these young anti union punks think they can beat us they are wrong because we are strong . I'm 63 and have shrunk 4" I now suffer from back trouble My brothers and sisters are the finest people in the whole world ,It is time you young whipper snappers took the reins Good luck kids and believe me YOU need it

The fact is we have all benefited from the labour movement. Just to name a few benefits, 40hr work week, paid benefits, pensions, workplace safety, grievance procedures, etc...

If you think these benefits will remain in place without Unions, you are in for a big surprise. These are benefits your parents and grandparents fought for and won. Now its our turn to fight, do your part and stand up to the right wing goons.

Fight with pride, like your parents did, the sacrifice is worth it.

If I had my way, the labour movement in Canada would take back Labour Day from the corporates who now use it to flog American football, American beer and American corporate ideals to the working masses.

Why do we celebrate Labour Day on September's first Monday rather than on the first day of May, a date that marked a line in the sand in an era when everyone knew which side they stood on.

Isn't Labour Day in September an American creation agreed to by government after approval by the corporate sector.

This is equivalent to Christians agreeing to hold Christmas celebrations in June so the retail sector can better capitalize on good weather sales.

Where are the labour leaders who will again stand up on May Day and express solidarity with workers of the world?

Why has government and industry been able to determine the one day of the year that ought to be determined by workers?

Does that mean that the capitalists are really the ones who celebrate Labour Day and, if so, why?

Why has the labour movements shining moment been relegated to a few words in the half-time slot or after the rush to the local Labour Day sales?

I think we should all get behind the workers walking the picket lines at Telus and CBC. We need to support them. The issues they are fighting for are the same issues that will be brought to your workplace next round of barganing if we don't. This labour struggle is not new it has just reached the point of action and I think it is time we all get more involved in it. There should be legislation created to encourage collective barganing not destroy it. The use of replacement workers is wrong in any Labour dispute.

There is a movement comong to you soon. It;s called " The Right to Pay Cheque " I think Arnold may put this on this November vote.
It means wheras an employee has to join a union to get a particular job. It is beholden for that particular union to disclose the amount of their budget, that is used for political activities. The worker has the right to pay for union dues that apply to regular union business but not for the political activities of the union.
Maybe we should have a look at this too.

Oh ffs Erwin... There's a movement coming to you soon too... In the medical profession, it's called a "bowel movement". I think all of us may put this on the September vote. It means you would be given your own outhouse and a bottle of caztor oil in order to do your "job". It would then be "beholden" on the rest of us to wait until you are inside with the door locked to transport you to Parliament Hill so the rest of the arrogant elites have to supply your bathroom tissue and listen to you flapping your gums about nothing...

Maybe nobody should HAVE to look at your pile of bovine residue but you... Now that Erwin.. is justice by the people and for the people!!!

By the way Erwin.. you ever gonna return your "Hooked on Phonics" tapes to the Library???

Silken

Gampa... thank you for taking the time to lend us your valuable support. Please be aware that tho' the issue of the Telus lockout are likely different than your battles of many years ago, the principles of equity and fairness in the face of blossoming corporate greed are those we seek to maintain. Thank you for your own contributions and sacrifices in the name of this worthy cause... God bless you Sir!

A not-so-young whipper-snapper,

Silken

Silken; What would you do if you didn't have my spelling mistakes to make fun of. You would then have to comment on the contents of the statement, if you wished.
What do you think of Right to Paycheque legislation comming to this country soon.
I am quite sure I know the answer, but I enjoy learning new left wing rhetoric and ways of TRYING to insult me>
Go ahead, have a nice day. I can take it believe me.

Thank you Jackrusell!!! Well said!!!

Silken

Erwin... Well.. the last I heard about new legislation it has to be introduced as a Bill and pass several readings in the House as well as by the Senate... Please quote me the Bill number and send along your crystal ball... I'll get back to you...

Silken

Well Erwin??? You gonna provide me with the number of that Bill or not?

Silken

Silken; your response is disappointing. Where is the usual pompous, pointy head liberal, holier than thou, predictable, rude, typial, unoriginal response.
Come on, maybe some original thoughts on the TWU strike.
I need you to to help me see the light.

Ron; I love the sound of that 'Right to Pay cheque' legislation and am hoping it happens here, as it's a travesty that teachers et al must pay their dues to a union that decides to waste their money fighting their ideological battles. The BCTF, for example, spends millions on political nonsense, and then claims to be fighting for the kids in the classroom. Richard Stewart's wife is a teacher, meaning she must support her husband during his campaign and support his opponent with her union dues. What utter nonsense.

C.I.R.E.
Coalition to Ignore Ron Erwin
All are Welcome!

Ditto to you Erwin... but I am used to being disappointed in your ilk... You think I am pompous because I expect anyone with padded pockets and who loves to namedrop to at least be able to spell simple words? My head isn't pointed Erwin... Those of us who don't spend our time with our heads up the a$$e$ of the elite have nice round heads so your geometry could use a lil work I see. Now, it's obvious that I am holier than thou because I believe that we are all God's children (except you and the elite you represent) so I can't argue that! I am rarely rude but I do call a scab a scab and an elitist an idiot... I am sorry you resent my clarity of vision. I have no idea what a "typial" is so I'll leave that to you to define... Unoriginal? Hmmm... It would appear to me that you dislike in anyone what is dominant in you.. how bout you take the log out of your own eye before you try to pry the splinter out of mine?

You have continued throughout all of these posts to call this appalling situation a "strike" because you either cannot spell "lockout" OR you hold yourself to be more knowledgable than the CIRB who ruled that this is a LOCKOUT (

Silken; that's better, I feel much better now that I have been dressed down by the best .
This Right to Paycheque legislation is not before any legislature in Canada now. It's an American thing.
But say it did come up in BC from the NDP, would you support it ?

Mr. Erwin, please! You come here often, and you appear to come expressly to offend. The general tone of your posts tend to be angry sounding, contemptuous. Insulting the very moral codes of those here with whom you disagree.

Even when you make what could be considered to be legitimate arguments, as in debate, you do so in a way calculated to offend your opponent.

To object now to somebody actually being offended, and responding in personal terms to your incessant grinding and belittling of their sincere convictions is just a tad precious, don't you think?

Try speaking respectfully, you might find people respond better. Even though you hate them, they are your democratic equals, and you will have to persuade them, if your somewhat thin point of view is to prevail.

Bailey; I call it self defense, that's what you do when somebody strikes you first. If you also address to the rude left wingers I will have respect for your comments.

Erwin... What on God's green earth has your "Right to Paycheque" legislation got to do with Telus being unwilling to go to the table with our appointed representatives while it's executive makes $3300 per hour to our $16.14 per hour??? It's an American "thing"? What the sam hell is a "thing"???

I am not going to spend my time chasing issues Erwin - particularly issues you can't even identify in substance... You posed this question as tho' the legislation was in the form of a Bill about to be passed into law for what reason?

If I am going to discuss law, it will be with someone who can at least define the substance of the issue...

And speaking of law, self-defence is only a defence - it is not the offence! And provocation is also a defence... Look those up in Black's Law or get one of your peons who can spell to do it. You have no more right to plead self-defence to your own offence any more than Ted Bundy could plead self-defence to those he murdered!

Give us all a break Erwin!

Silken

Bailey... thank you for saying what needed to be said! I applaud your eloquence and your clarity!!!

Silken

Ted Bundy ? Wow, it get's better all the time.
I don't care if you want to avoid the debate on Right to Pay Cheque Legislation. I did,t expect you to support such an idea.

I have one question. How much are the union leaders paid?

I would really like to hear the salaries of the common man such as George Haymen and Jim Sinclair.

Could you then compare those salaries to those of their membership please.

I would like to know if they make the same wage.

C.I.R.E.
Membership has it's rewards!

I can advise you Jim that they make the same wage as the members while we are on lockout... $250 per week provided they contribute 16 hours... My understanding of their normal wages is approximately $60,000 per annum but I would need to get back to you in that regard... Perhaps you could tell me how the Union execs' wages are relevant to this topic?

Silken

LMAO!!! I have to agree with you Club... Spose I could have an honorary membership???

Silken

Ron and Jim are kind of sad little men here to stifle debate, don't feed good bread to old dogs. Just ignore them and they
will lose focus for a while. Anyone who knows history knows that worker rights,(union and non union) have never come as a
gift from on high but have been won by big labor and normal people getting together. We must stand up and fight even if it does benefit those ungrateful slugs like Ron, 5 day work week, vac and health benefits, 8 hour day, safety standards etc are all victories that are at risk from scum bag corporations and neo con gov around the globe. If a leader like Telus can get away outsourcing jobs to the Philippines then this trend will take over. We must take action.

1) Cancel all Telus products and tell them why. Tie up the lines. Keep the FU*** on the phone all night.
2) Organize rallies daily and tell all your friends and neigbours to cancel telus products.
3) Picket at their outlets. Put in signs etc, The Future is Unfriendly
4) Ramp up the strike , on one gets in or out of the Telus buildings.
5) Nationalize the company, revoke the corporate charter, the court battle would bring much negative
attention to the company.
6) General strike, shut down this economy, all the unions should ban and make a stand.
P.S maybe when the CBC workers come back they will have more courage when reporting issues.

And don't let Jim's icons at CanWest get away with false reporting , report them every time to the CRTC,

Of course! Membership is voluntary and there are no annual dues or hidden fees! Your benefits start immediately! Just ignore everthing "he" says and within minutes you will rid your mind of unwanted annoyance! Try it for one month, if not 100% completely satisfied, we'll revoke our own charter.

I'm really curious, you always here about the "grossly overpaid" company executive but I've never heard union leadership wages. If they do make more than their members it would be a tad hypocritical on their part. And I doubt Jim Sinclair makes less than 60,000 a year when all benefits are included (even without benefits). What I gather from union leaders is that having a more extensive and marketable skill set means nothing.

I guess if we compete with the Philippines we are all doing pretty good. How about it Jim , while your trying to
muddy the issue please explain to us all how sending jobs to the Philippines will benefit our economy, maybe we
should be a nation of low paid retail and service workers, how is less money in the pockets of workers good, should
companies that act in this callous way be rewarded or punished. The Union movement is the only way to stand up to power, I know this upsets you but maybe one day you will see the benefit of raising standards and not lowering them.

Tell me Stuart how is driving business away from Telus going to help Telus employees in the long term. And yes there are long term consequences, something those of union ilk are obviously not aware of. Or choose to ignore

Also how are people presenting alternative viewpoints in a reasonable way "stifling debate". Isn't debate all about presenting alternative points of view. Obviously those alternative points of view threaten ole Stueys' train of thought and he doesn't like that. Stuart you want a prep rally not a debate.

Stuart can you answer my question about the wages of union leaders?

Union Leaders are elected and if it is a full time position the wage rate is set by the UNION through a democratic process. Anyone who is a Union member would know that...

So what are the wage rates? What are they compared to the members? This shouldn't be too hard of a question.

Why are those wages more than that of the "workers"? Shouldn't everybody make the same regardless of skills, expierence and value to the organization?

Since those factors mean nothing shouldn't unions practise what they preach and put the longest serving member as their leader. They make the business do that. So why wouldn't that be acceptable practise for determining leadership?

To cancel the services from Telus in protest while this conflict is on going is to make a point, nobody is saying that it has to be permanent - else of course they do send the jobs to the Phillipines.

You know the prices we pay for services through Telus are premium and while I have no problem with paying it if it betters the locals' lives I will not pay it to enrich the already "better off" who begrudge the workers in this country a decent, family supporting wage.

I can pay Sprint a little over half the amount for the various services I receive from Telus. They, Sprint call on a regular basis to solicit my business. Telus should tread carefully they are running out of time...

In my local the Union members are paid at their regular rate for time spent on Union business. In some cases it is a labourer's rate, in others it may be a Tradesman rate it depends on the position held by the individual. It is not any more than anyone else in the organization.

Jim, Union leaders do not have to have University degrees and BS after their names, they are mostly workers who worked their way up the ranks through their Union involvement(mostly voluntary)

Answering him will do no good. He already thinks he knows. The truth will only enrage him, not convince him.

He won't believe you. If he does believe you, he'll quickly forget, or convince himself he never knew. It's a religious dogma, not susceptible to any sort of alteration. When dogma is contradicted by fact, the response is often violent, never reasoned. If he begins to doubt, he will begin to fear, and then all his responses will be based on that.

As a trade unionist, is there something wrong with the fact that the 3 largest unions in BC are public sector unions, as evidenced by who co wrote this article. Could they not find an operating engineer president, a teamster president, a sheet metal worker president, or anyone from the private sector unions to write an article on Labour Day, its history, etc.

Here's a shock. I'm definitely NOT one of Judy Darcy's fan club. I have fond memories of Judy ducking and dodging Canadian Airline flight attendants (her own union members at the time by the way) during the 2002 CLC convention in Vancouver. It was absolutely pitiful, the way she acted towards her own members, followed by the veiled threats to delegates that chose to listen to these people's legitimate concerns. Of course, this was balanced off with the Gregor Robertson victory in the Vancouver Fairview nomination race.

I saw Jack Munro on the news the other night talking at the Labour Day protest up at the Telus "boot." Whether you agree or not with his politics within the union movement, its that firebrand, hard nose in your face leadership that these public sector unions seem to be lacking in my view. Within the rank and file of GEU its different. Darryl Walker is an old time firebrand, one who doesn't need a microphone to be heard in a crowd. But that skill is a lost art form nowadays.

I look at the leadership of both the BCFED and some of the public sector unions, and for the most part, it's milktoast. There's no one inspiring, motivating, or anyone who after they gave a speech you could go out and say.. "wow, what a dynamic person." Whenever its time to stand up and kick ass... it turns around into the "well you know boys and girls..." (In terms of previously opposing Campbell and his bs). Of course, its easy to sit back and cast stones, unless you're willing to be involved. Oh wait, I already am involved.

Telus has record earnings and growth of over 10% last quarter, the company has deep pockets as we have seen
with its blushing salaries to its executives. Their is no other side to this issue, the company wants to increase profits
by off shoring its jobs to the 3rd world, on the backs of those who have built up the company. In my view any company
that acts in this way needs to be punished. Organized protest via canceling service or basically shutting them down. The only way to make them act is to hit their bottom line which is very effective . When Telus decides to come back and act
human then things can be made right.
Trying to tar labour leaders is a very sad attempt to muddy the issue, without organized labour who would be standing up with the workers at this moment. The media, LOL, management. Shipping good paying jobs out does nothing for a community , the economy and benefits no one but some unaccountable shareholders.

The future is unfriendly

Exactly Stuart!!! The company has been found guilty of so much by the CIRB but the CIRB has refused to penalize them in any way. It's like finding someone guilty of a crime but refusing to sentence them... It isn't that the CIRB can't penalize Telus - it is that they won't... and trust me, the CEO, Board of Directors and the "unaccountable shareholders" are only going to notice when the people of this country speak in the language they will understand... It is the language of "less revenue" and the ONLY thing they care about!

We didn't establish the focal areas of elite interest... they did!

Silken

I have cancelled my cell, internet and all extra features on my line. I have also changed providers for long distance. Can you switch the basic service yet. Anyway the # is 310-2255 , call now and tell Telus what you think and get as many
friends and family on side. 12,000 workers times 10 friends each equals = Oh Sh**

Just do it, their are not that many Jim's and Ron's out their. Actually I think Ron still has a rotary phone.

Stuart: if you have moved your long distance service, you have now taken you business to a company that pays its workers less and have much easier "contracting-out" provisions in their collective agreements (if the provider is unionized at all.) They probably also have a call centre in Timbuktu.

Thank you for your contribution to the free enterprise economy. I'm sure all the Telus workers thank you for that.

Martin... It may be that in moving services to another company we contribute to the prosperity of those with lesser collective agreements. But... I will lay you odds that the Union negotiated with the Company and that it is not comparable to Telus foisting their offer on the members and INSISTING we accept it! With corporate greed as rampant as it is, there is no way to avoid contributing to it unless one lives in a hut in the hills. We can only address what lies before us.. not the agreements of other companies & unions... Are you suggesting that Stuart should remain without his long distance because he is with a company that cannot bring themselves to bargain in good faith??? That doesn't seem logical to me...

There is not one good reason for Telus to continue to avoid bargaining with our authorized agents unless of course Telus wishes to try to take advantage of their worker's lack of legal expertise in the reading of contract legalese... The best of arbitrators have been offered and Telus continues to avoid acting in any kind of responsible fashion whatsoever.

The only language Telus understands is "revenue loss"... Quit asking us to sit passively while they stomp on our faces.. It's not gonna happen!!!

Luceo:

Ah! The ol' "Osmosis Theory".
In the Trickle Down Theory (aka TDT, which sounds very much like DDT), government would have us believe that wealth is like the champagne fountain, where the riches of the nation cascade unendingly and in ever-widening circles, until even the plebs at the bottom must fill their glasses to the brim with milk and honey - that is, providing an infinite amount of "chamgane" is poured, and the top glass has such a surfeit that it must regurgitate the excess (a la Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" - the Restuarant Scene). Should however the largesse be truncated, the champagne remains at the top, and possibly a few rungs down, but never reaches the bottom.

In the Osmosis Theory, the "top" must work like hell to absorb a few crumbs (yes, yes, mixed metaphors.....), most of which remains at the "bottom" (where it belongs, I might add)

The one thing I must say that unions do not seem to be addressing, is the notion I first heard put forward when my kids were in highschool some ten years ago, where it was becoming "gospel" that they could expect to have as many of five careers in their working lifetime. Going on strike for job security would seem to run counter to this trend. So, what do the kids (now in their late 20's) think of strikes for job security, when the notion of several careers has been drumed into their heads, and in fact is reflected in the tendency for jobs to be more in the realm of contract work - or may be expected to be temprorary, as technology makes them redundant?

What are unions doing to ensure their membership's employment security when skills need upgrading, or new skill sets are required (besides striking)?

RickW...

I can only speak from my experience with my collective agreement. Most collective agreements (I believe) have clauses within them called "technological change." Those clauses deal with when an employer either enters into a technological change that affects the number of employees required to do the job (automation vs manual labour) or requires employees to either upgrade or retrain.

As well, my union local, has something called an Industry Advancement Fund. The companies that are under collective agreement to the local pay so much an hour into the fund, and that fund is used to upgrade, train or retrain members, and can be applied to through the local. There are also instances that I'm aware of where an employer and the union have jointly agreed to cover the cost of retraining, and where also the member, the local and the employer have done the same thing.

I know very well what you're talking about in terms of being told that you'll have 5 to 6 jobs/careers. Perhaps you could say that this seed is being planted on purpose by those who set curriculums in high school, to encourage kids to be of a more broad mind, and adaptable to life in general, not just career. Or, if you think about the entire educational concept of our kids, we're grooming nothing but worker ants anyways.

When I was in school, the bell would go off to say "get to class" in the morning. Similar to the steamwhistle of the old manufacturing plants.

Another bell would ring, for "recess" (aka coffee break) then again to say end of recess. (Back to work)

Then the lunch break bell... see my point???

We teach our kids to be ambitious, always reaching higher and higher, etc. But at what cost? Loyalty? There are very very few jobs today that aren't union that are truly "full time". Most are full time part time, or permanent part time. I keep hearing the term "flexibility" used by employers, when it comes to work forces. And yet, when it comes to working conditions, alot of these same employers are extremely inflexible. Plus constant turnover of people, like disposable diapers, some people think that that keeps your labour costs low.

Like offshoring of jobs, its a self cannabilizing prophecy, and now its starting to catch up.

Modern unionism (Canadian style) and universality are both counterproductive notions. Human nature dictates that most people need incentive to achieve and produce.

Actually, I just beefed up my calling features, and switched to e-billing. I also brought beer and some smoked salmon to the hotel where the managers working in my area are staying.

Those TWU workers have no clue how good they have it. No raise for 5 years? Oh boo hoo, they get retro pay in a lump sum for that time, and an increase each year for the length of the contract. Job security? That's a scoialist pipe dream that is absolutely assinine to expect. Any workers who are 'downsized' will be given the choice of relocation or severance if they don't want to relocate.

So cry me a river. It's not 1965 anymore - time to wake up to reality.

"So cry me a river. It's not 1965 anymore - time to wake up to reality."

That's the difference between you and me, poindexter (fitting name by the way) You see reality as it is and I see it as it should be. That's the problem with the union haters, no imagination, just drone parrots plugged into the main stream message. If you woke up for a second and studied history you would realize
that all the benefits you now enjoy are owed to the union movement, the corporate gods you worship have never come bearing gifts. As far as the Telus dispute, you think no one in this society deserves job security, how about the folks who have built up the company, do you also think we should be scourring the planet for the cheapest labor at any cost to local economies and workers. (if so how much is your job paying in China or India)
If you woke up you would know that your shooting yourself in the foot, less money circulating in this economy means less for your business. Outsourced jobs are permanent and the economic spin-offs never come back.

"Human nature dictates that most people need incentive to achieve and produce."

what incentive do folks have to achive and produce when Telus and others act in this way, thanks for the agreement that unions serve a vital role in protecting the public good to enjoy the benifits of one's labour. I know you would come on side nemesis.

That's correct I suppose Stuey - I don't live in a Socialist Fantasy World.

Everyday the TWU Telus employees go to work, do their job, and are in turn compensated with very good pay and very good benefits. That's all Telus owes them. No nepotistic job offers to employees children once they retire, or guarantees of continued employment for life.

It may be nice to wish everyone is guaranteed a job from cradle to grave, but it's not reality, and it's not a practical option. So suck it up TWU and take a look at what you have. It's pretty f-in good as far as I and most people I talk to can see.

Stuart it isn't worth responding to another neocon who already has his narrow mind made up. yet another of the uninformed media drones that believes the corporate agenda is best for all. When it only is best for the bottom line. You are right that the benefits we all enjoy are because of the strong Union influence in this country and the managers at Telus should be thanking their TWU employees for the benefits they enjoy instead of trying to outsource their jobs. Don't they realize that without anyone to supervise they won't have jobs either? Most don't look that far down the road. But at the end of this Telus will be a call center in some godforsaken island in the middle of nowhere responsible to noone but the share holders.

"Everyday the TWU Telus employees go to work, do their job, and are in turn compensated with very good pay and very good benefits. That's all Telus owes them"

Thanks for your agreement, Telus owes them, owes them some hand in the profits the company has made, thats how our society works, you work hard and you get paid when the company does well like Telus is, hard work by its employees have created big profits for Telus,
Telus employees just want to keep their jobs and get a fair deal for their labour.

Not sure who you talk to but maybe your asking the wrong questions, ask people if an employer should be loyal to its hard working employees who have helped them gain such large profits, or should the employer search the planet for the cheapest labour and have no loyalty.

"That's correct I suppose Stuey - I don't live in a Socialist Fantasy World."

Once again, this statement shows you feel powerless to affect change while I still know I can have an impact. Your like a 3rd person looking in and feeling helpless,

ha ha, so if I'm a neocan Jack, I guess that makes you a passe-pinko?

Without anyone to supervize, the managers won't have jobs? Really? They seem to be doing fine right now doing the union members jobs. I guess maybe the TWU members aren't irreplaceable as they thought and Telus won't come to an end without them.

Unfortunately there are some smart TWU members out there who are getting screwed because they have no choice but to belong to an antiquated union. And working isn't an option because of the militant neanderthals who march the picket line and threaten anyone who thinks for themselves.

Stuey I'm far from helpless - I'm able to function in this society quite well because I don't see myself as a victim or believe anyone owes me anything - unlike you and socialists across this province.

I agree if you work hard you should be rewarded. Telus employees work hard, and they ARE rewarded. This strike is about stupid pie in the sky demands like job security, that are not reality or reasonable. All they do is hurt the workers they are supposed to help.

But the TWU is so hell bent on conflict and not giving an inch they are willing to battle it out, and use their members as pawns. That's what's sad here. The TWU needs to wake up and start doing something productive for it's members - not wasting their time and money with a strike. Nobody wins in strikes, especially those on strike.

Just a matter of time before the 60+ hour weeks and Hotel food gets to them. When the managers start complaining about the work load issues the company will drop them in a flash.

kegler:
While I agree with most of what you say, it DOES make sense that 25-year careers are a thing of the past, considering that few jobs will last that long without significant changes - or they become non-existent. The "classical" example is harness-maker. Our approach to work in general though has to change. The visions of the 50's of the so-called "leisure society" forgot one critical element - namely, how does one make the necessary money that leisure costs? What the visionaries called "leisure" is more accurately called "unemployment" today.

Looking from the "outside", I do not see unions addressing this broader concept. And I definitely do not see businesses addressing this.

nemesis:

No! Most people needs security to achieve. Not being tied to the need for income 24/7, allows the intellect to expand. And "production" is a relative term, used extensively by Utilitarians, who by and large, believe that many should work for the benefit of a few. It used to be called "slavery"......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism

Poindexter...

"But the TWU is so hell bent on conflict and not giving an inch they are willing to battle it out, and use their members as pawns."

Hmmm interesting statement. Can you tell me how many times in this dispute has the TWU been found GUILTY of unfair labour practices by the Canadian Industrial Relations Board (CIRB)? I know that Telus has twice been found guilty by the board for engaging in unfair labour practices.

So you tell me, Poindexter, who's "so hell bent on conflict and not giving an inch they are willing to battle it out." Last I looked, Poindexter, this was a LOCKOUT by Telus, not a STRIKE by the TWU. And Telus is attempting to circumnavigate the labour relations code by IMPOSING a collective agreement. Now, call me a dinosaur, but I thought a collective agreement was negotiated in good faith at the bargaining table, not imposed by the Employer, doing an end run on the union.

Last time I read any type of collective agreement, involving a union, there's a clause that states that "the union shall be considered the sole bargaining authority for the Bargaining unit." I guess that's one of the unfair labour practices that Telus has been found guilty of. By the way Poindexter, did the Telus managers give you one of their vaunted MP3s for bringing them the booze and hookers... err I meant smoked salmon. Did you happen to make a video of you spoon feeding the managers their mana?

Funny, I have yet to date to see a video called TWU Idol. And the union leadership and management acting like drunken buffoons, humiliating and embarrassing employees on a sales junket.

"The only good scab.. is the one removed from the wound and disposed of properly."

Well said Kegler

Check this site for something you may find ammusing.

http://www.averyant.com/video_unionizedchrist.htm

North of Hope...

Funny link. Though the CAW has started to organized church priests. I think its the united church but I'm not sure.