One issue is that escorts and call girls are not earning 'tax-free' money. They are required to claim that income, legal or not. So current 'clean' call girls are committing tax fraud.

One of the benefits of some forms of legalisation is that taxes can be collected.

While I certainly abhor the thought of society thinking about prostitution in terms of 'profit'; I would whole-heartedly support putting whatever (and all) value recovered in taxes from brothels (etc.) towards programs to help addicts, and women at risk in general.

I'm tempted to ask our author if she isn't escorting or whatever she calls it just like the addicted eastsiders to make a buck.

Good for you that you are not addicted, but I'd suggest that if you want to fit in and be seen as a normal businesswoman you start to pony up some of your taxes.

Forget your suggestions that you and other hi-enders will contribute at Xmas or during the year to help out those who only have "scum" for clients.

My take on you after reading your rant is that you see those poor east-siders through the same dog-eat-dog lenses you admit drives most of your fellow hi-enders.

They are potential competition and anything done to help them improve their lives and perhaps their choice of clients, is a threat to you, isn't it?

What next, MCYuks accusing the slow food movement of being too fast?

Interesting article, a lot to think about.

What if the city set up a licensed red light zone for the East Side prostitute, under literal and legal oversight of the authorities, AND legalized the three-per-registered work zone private escort?

Then you would have protection and health care for those who need it, and relative freedom for those who don't.

There are all kinds of moral, class and gender arguments one can make against legalization, but the work itself seems pretty victimless if everyone consents.

So let's make it safe and the taxman can make something off it too.

What a complicated world we live in.

Wow what a Column. Some of it is very well articulated but some opinions are blatantly unfair.

I happen to believe that there should never be a class system to prostitution, yet the writer speculates its ok to have one. We currently in Vancouver have a class system in place and this is what has created all the danger and harm.

I don't think those who are drug addicted sex workers necessarily started out this way and they too must have their life, liberty and security rights upheld. Same for escorts.

Many of us are working in the business do so openly with great passion and risk to ourselves. We do this to advance our movement. We are proud of our rich history and culture and are now creating a Ho SW (history of sex worker project). I hope the column writer joins us.

I suggest that the writer takes some unnecessary liberties then hides behind an anonymous screen. I think the Tyee editor wasn't fair in this regard. My reason for articulating this is because of the liberties taken against those with health issues such as the drug addicted sex worker or those working the strolls of the Downtown Eastside.

While its easy for the escort to escort, that is she or he will get a license providing they have no previous criminal conviction for solicitation or communication. The reality is most sex workers have had a previous charge of solicitation and therefore cannot obtain an escort license. Does the column writer think this is fair or just?

But hopefully, the column writer will at some point out herself or himself and join our proud movement of warriors!

Its easy to scream behind a screen but its quite another to get into the trenches and do the work which needs to be done.

Jamie Lee Hamilton

I wonder if Jamie Lee shouldn't be encouraged to end all her posts with an appropriate tag line:

"This has been an unpaid announcement on behalf of the Liberal Party."

Certainly that's the consistent drift I get from all her anti-Tim Stevenson pieces.

Perhaps she could enlighten us as to where her prefered candidate, Mr Lorne Meinkampf stands on the issue of street solitication. If he figures we need a law against "aggressive panhandling", does he at the same time figure it should be OKay to ask passers by, "Wanna a little company?"

You've got to wonder why prostitution is legal, but the government cannot give a place where it can be done legally. If a red light district made prostitutes safer then I am for it.

Really, I wish that there was no prostitution out there, but since there is, I do think we owe it to the girls, boys, men, and women out there that are sacrificing their bodies for economics to atleast make them as safe as possible.

The letter writer no doubt wants to make a distinction between himself/herself and the street prostitute, but I think he/she should take a second look in the mirror. You're both flesh and blood people and deserve the same respect, rights, and safety. Don't ya think?

Sodem and Gomorrah, I wonder what the lessons were all about?

Why bother writing another article on what the city should or shouldn't do regarding a brothel district? It won't make a difference. Plus, hasn't the city already been maintaining several? The DTES is just one example of an area in the Greater Vancouver Regional District where poor people, drug users and people working in the sex trade have already been confined by force -- allowed to "conduct business" with just enough violence on behalf of the police to keep them in check, oppressed and afraid (sometimes dead).

Instead of trying to organize for poor sex-trade workers, why not give them the resources to organize for themselves? The answer: To create any real systemmic change would diminish the profits of those who "own" the land, the businesses. This would be a real threat to the government and the system they maintain.

I have no doubt in my mind that one of the underlying pushes for a brothel district in Vancouver is prompted by the ongoing gentrification of the DTES in light of the upcoming 2010 Olympics (among other profit-creating and tax-generating endeavours of course). They will have to put the undesirables somewhere, won't they? Preferably somewhere they can keep their eye on them, somewhere that will not be so close to the tourist trap of Gastown. I am sure that the high-class escort businesses (both personal and managed) will be booming while the violence against poor sex-trade workers will increase (along with rent) before and during the much invested in 2010 games.

There is a reason you as an escort are allowed to conduct your business and a reason why you do not suffer at the hands of the police. Do you think that women in the DTES make enough money to cover what a minimum wage job would offer them? Do you think that poor people you are talking about can apply for jobs and apartments in the same places as you? They would probably be arrested or searched before even getting there.

You are right -- you may work in the sex trade, but class division doesn't stop there, and the working women who will be forced into brothels are not up to par with your standards for sure. And by the way, it's not that class should or shouldn't exist in the sex trade, it's that it does and always has.

It might be worthwhile to the author of this article to read the affidavits collected by the Pivot Legal Society that deal specifically with the violence and danger faced from the police by people who are addicted, working on the street, homeless or living in abolute poverty. Read the statments made by other sex-trade workers living in poverty in the eastside who have been told by the VPD where they can work -- north of East Hastings, in an area that is out of sight out of mind for most business owners, landlords and other profiteers -- away from the people who complain.

It would also be a good idea to reasearch the governments actions against poor people prior to and during Expo '86, check out VANDU for some info on drug addiction, or read about effects of Canada's residential schools on indigenous people. Investigate how many working women are pressured into the sex trade by their abusive partners, and have most of their very small earnings taken from them immediatly. There will never be enough money for "nice, clean, discreet apartments", much less food for those who are living in poverty and involved in the sex trade. There is barely enough for some drugs to keep some people numb enough to continue on living. Some people do not have the same options as you, they do not have the same privilege.

The author says: "They need compulsory rehabilitation and counseling centres in the outlying areas; where if they're caught working without treatment, the only other alternative is jail … repeatedly, until they get "the message." Once out of rehab they need a choice of training options."

Do you think this is what they would choose? Or do you just know better? Many working women have been assaulted/raped by the VPD -- maybe that might convince you that jail isn't exactly the best place for rehab. What about harm-reduction and peer support as viable options? How about the goverment stops eliminating funding for programs that might offer some sort of real assistance to a poor sex-trade worker? How about the government stops blowing millions of dollars on "research" and consults the people who already know best -- the sex-trade workers who are living in poverty with addictions.

The author says: "I believe this whole set up would possibly drive the "clean" escorts out of business. We'd return to the days of 30 or 40 years ago, to the seamy underground atmosphere of streetwalking and scummy hotel calls and scummy clientele. Which would only raise the odds of more murders."

Well, don't worry, other businesses feel the same way. Too bad escorts cannot yet join the Business Improvement Association. Or are you too being played as a pawn?
This is right in line with the Safe Steets Act. It's all a joke to those with money and power in this city, province and country.

The author says: "no lawyer, judge, politician, engineer, local or foreign business owner or representative, CEO, professor, school board member, teacher, city hall employee, government worker, computer professional salesman, director, producer, set person, actor, musician, artist, trucker, blue collar worker or professional would ever come to that area".

That's the idea.

Instead of letting the city decided where they will put poor sex-trade workers next, let's stop trying to analyse and advocate for something many of us don't understand and instead work on filtering money/support to harm-reduction and peer-run services. Let's educate ourselves about the reasons poverty and addiction exists in Vancouver. The government certainly won't.

[HIGHLY OFFENSIVE COMMENT

[HIGHLY OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.

I would like to chime in with my agreement with many of you. Thank-you skwr for being so eloquent.

The elitist and uncompassionate opinions of the author of this article really turned me off. Drug addiction and the sex trade go hand in hand for many and setting up more prisons and continuing to punish those least able to provide for themselves will not eliminate any of the problems.

That said, the author has a valid point of view as part of the sex trade. I hope she wants be part of a solution to some of these issues.

Yes, I agree that the author has a very valid point of view -- sorry for seeming to come down so harsh, I was feeling that so many issues were ignored, most of which are intrinsically linked to certain attitudes of "us and them".

It easy to look at things from a business perspective when all your basic needs are being met and you are turning a healthy profit. It would be easier to think of your image being ruined. Being a well-paid escort is very different than being a poor sex trade worker, which is the point that I believe this article tries to illustrate.

I am glad that the author is aware that some folks are not as priviledged and do need financial help -- realizing that solidarity and support between all people who work in every angle of the sex-trade is essential. This was inspiring, however the suggestions (e.g. forced rehab, prison) seemed unhelpful. I forgot to mention that some people try traditional forms of drug rehab and it does not work out because the methods are not viable for many users.

I hope that the auhor's tax-free money would given specifically to grassroots agencies or directly to those in need, rather than being filtered through the government which traditionally mismanages such donations.

okay, where the hell is the tyee message board cop to yank jini.singh's disgusting filth? that post is ignorant, hateful, and revolting. you don't get to talk to people like that, you ass.

I would suggest that the author of this piece (and her purported "acquaintances") is glossing over the reality of what she does for a living. I have no moral objections to hooking; however, my bullshit indicator is alerting me as I read this person's assurances of the safety and oh-so nice character of her chosen profession. Somehow I have a tough time believing that abuse, indiscretion, and drugs/alcohol play no part in even her high-end prostitution.

Ya, just what I need in my life, an apartment next door with three "working girls" turning tricks. What a wonderful example for families with young children not to mention the fact that suddenly our apartment block becomes the equivilent of a "stroll" attracting all comers who have the price of a "trick."

Jayward

Obvious class bias here. Of course there are divisions within the sex trade, like evrything else. But lets not have the "upper class" sex trade workers trash the poor ones. How bout a little solidarity - or is that too much to ask from this escort service version of Maggie Thatcher?

I thought the article was a bit disjointed. There was some circular argument and a kind of "blurting" stream of consciousness that certainly created an atmosphere of reality. However genuine, the writer's perspective was very subjective and narrow. No doubt about the validity, though. Enjoyed SKWR's initial response.
There seemed to be two things going on: a potential turf war between the Jets and the Sharks and a sense of altruism needing expression.
One one hand the escort seemed to be trying to distance herself from the Eastside street walkers and, on the other hand, calling for a solution to all the problems that beset the same group. There's a cranial tug-o'-war going on.
Sex as a commodity will always exist. Management of human activity is an ongoing exercise no matter what the activity is. It's important to have a process by which problems are examined and remedies sought. Clarity is not always easy to achieve as community mores and values are constantly in flux. Identifying and curbing anti-social behaviour is the province of the status quo. As a consequence, the procedure resembles a dog chasing it's tail; always the goal is slightly out of reach but tantalizing enough for those engaged to continue the pursuit. One can only hope that the people involved receive the kind of support and protection that will allow them to live what they consider to be quality lives. And that those who create the structures of our society acknowledge the responsibility of their positions and strive to create a fair and equitable system for all people without regard for their 'moral' character or class.

Jayward:
I'm sure rental properties and condo strata groups could eliminate the whore groups by covenant or rental agreement amendments. Always tough to enforce, though. But it's worth a try. Many places have eliminated children and pets this way although some still sneak in. I saw some kids in an "over 55" gated community the other day, cluttering things up with their oversized plastic toys and making a lot of noise. That's just not right. Maybe the trick turners could be restricted to buildings or developments that have already eliminated children?

Jayward:

You said this:

How do you know this isn't happening already?

The real issue here is zoning: regulation will ensure that these girls do business in non-residential neighbourhoods where adequate parking is available.

"Turning tricks" is a bit offensive as a term, but seriously - it happens all over the place right now - not just in apartment buildings but also in campus dorms. I bet you'd be really annoyed if you lost your parking spot to a paying customer.

I disagree with the premise of a "red-light district", as i think it will only serve to ghettoize the problem. The current laws governing prostitution are full of internal inconsistencies and silliness though.

YO BRADLEY,

Sort of a high end adults only "whore house" you mean, I'm sure the other tennants would enjoy the "tricks" inhabiting their rental or condo hallways while the "working girls" conducted their business.

tommymoore, your "bullshit indicator" is slightly off. There are many people who work with escort agencies who do enjoy such privileges -- who live in a condo in the west end, own a car, have someone wait and watch while they turn tricks, someone to screen clients and who have the option of saying yes or no based on the risks they enounter, people who have families as well.

Jayward, you seems to be expressing feelings that are the equivilent of the author's -- the truth is that you are bound to share a building with people who have, do or will work in the sex-trade, no matter how deep into the manors and condos of the privileged you move, just as the author is bound to share this city with sex-trade workers who are poor or addicted. I recommend that you realize that many such people have young children and families themselves.

Bradley Cooper, it's nothing so simple as a dog chasing it's tail. Being a sex-trade worker is not "anti-social behaviour". This opinion has been carefully engineered and cultivated -- for people to think otherwise would upset the economy. Again, do some research.

You say: "One can only hope that the people involved receive the kind of support and protection that will allow them to live what they consider to be quality lives. And that those who create the structures of our society acknowledge the responsibility of their positions and strive to create a fair and equitable system for all people without regard for their 'moral' character or class."

The goverment, police, business associations and strata groups are the hands and cocks of a system that condones, profits from and takes part in the sex trade in all shapes and forms. In every place that has been colonized, it is these sorts of organizations that first come in and rape, sell and murder everyone who will not be assimilated. They (with all their resources and money) assume their position to decide through the blood and sweat of others. They are on either end of it, winning no matter which way things go, and stealing the voices and tools of those who attempt to rise up. You are their ground troops.

While enjoying your "gated communities" you might miss something that is actually happening. That's the idea, to keep you isolated in your work/live loft, to send you little scraps of paper and emails that will make you think you are taking part in your existance. Do you realize you were socialized to have this reaction? Here's what I hear you saying: Let's eliminate all the children, poor people, women, users, people of colour, indigenous peoples, sex-trade workers, immigrants, refugees and queers from OUR privileged communities. Let's put them in their own buildings with separate clauses and separate managers where they will only make sounds that will be heard by others of their kind. And we get to make their rules. How fucked up is that? I won't even go into it.

The only "remedy" that has ever made conditions less hostile for opressed peoples is when they can muster up the time and resources to organize and make their voices heard. The governement does everything in it's power to take this energy away from people who might otherwise complain, including facilitating the sex, drug and weapon trades and imposing an inaccessible legal system on people who try to fight injustices. Supporting opressed peoples to create their own peer-run organizations that have nothing to do with the government is a start to tearing down this bloodied system. We must tear down these structures and build up our own sustainable ones that are not based on profit. Can you not understand that you will eventually have what is left of you eaten up too? we are just moving up the chain until there is nothing left.

Prostitution and pimping takes many forms, some of them more damaging than those visible on a street corner. One need look little further than certain media relationships.

There is certainly much prudery in this country regarding consenting adults dealing in the ancient trade of sex.

No matter whether driving a clunker or a Bently, knee-jerk approval of many was evident when it was suggested that "johns" forfeit their vehicles when caught transacting sex from them - fascist excess, in my opinion.

A mature and realistic attitude toward the trade is necessary. This would be aided by establishing approved areas. Governments, at all levels, up to their armpits in gambling revenue, should have few moral problems with this.

Skeptikool is right in one assertion. If the government is going to allow prostitution, then they owe it to those most at risk to provide safe areas for it to take place. Prostitutes need the police to protect them more than I do. It is time that the police looked upon the street prostitute in the DTES as someone who needs their protection, and not their scorn.

Now we are starting to focus on realities here rather than the fears of the relatively pampered, who brag of "sleeping", ironically, with the very people who could change things.

Have some cake, my dear.

What about politicians who hire whores?

There are many.

Lobby them properly, and surely you could get the activity legalized.

Incidentally, from Jamie Lee's blog:

I believe Jamie Lee was convicted of running a common bawdy house - she's splitting legal hairs by separating herself from women who have. The sex industry as a whole needs to be re-evaluated, re-done, re-visited. The issue is not "solicitation convictions" the issue is the sex industry, and whether it should be legalized, taxed, and regulated. Like all other industries, there will be the inevitable internal politics, infighting and differences.

The 20 dollar whores
look down their noses
and the 10 dollar whores
who look down their noses
at the volunteers
'cause they don't have careers.

Not my line. Source it out - it's a great song.

SKWR,
My reference to gated communities was an attempt at satire. Sorry I missed the mark. As for anti-social behaviour, that should have been elaborated on by indicating that the behaviour is defined by those in power.
I agree with much of what you have to say - your perspective is free of the media-influenced slant most people use to judge social issues. You're obviously informed and have arrived at your postitions by sound process.
I think if more people could get even close to your level of discovery and understanding then the issues would be that much closer to being dealt with effectively. But it seems like a Herculean effort given the public's desire to insulate themselves from truth. Most people are comfortable accepting 'the line' as it is supplied by the powers and their media.
I promise to "do the research".

I think the author makes a few points, in that there is a difference between a profession as an opportunity and a profession as a resort. Like the war of maijruana, and bans on gay marriages, there is nothing on the surface (other than moral points of view) that should prevent sex trade from being a legit profession, who should fully pay their contributions to society (taxes), should have self organized safety regulations to protect both employees and clientelle, and who should follow standard accounting and operating procedures.

Once made legitimate, there will have to be certain sacrifices made. Yes, taxes. Yes there may be limits on where business can occur. I can have pizza delivered to my apartment, but I can't run a pizza joint in it. If I do freelance web work, I can base it out of home, but I have limitations on having clients come to my place, and parking.

As far as society is concerned, the sex trade is no different than any other profession, except where moral judgements come into play.

That being said, the DTES, is home to serious problems including addiction and poverty, that do put a specific spin on it. A red light zone is something that also should happen (toss my MJ cafes in it as well), just as we have a financial district, in that it makes it easier and safer for those working the streets to operate. But in doing so we also have to be prepared for those who won't make it into any legitimized sex trade professions. Those who are heavily addicted to substances, and those who have stds, for whom have health issues that must be dealt with.

And I'll admit, this is the big ?, what to do with those who cannot be brought into a depuritanized economy. Those who cannot pull themselves off drugs for 8 hours a day to get employment, or who are incapable of working, and yet choose lifestyles with costs beyond that which social services should reasonably be expected to support.

Jini. Singh

Get real please. If you want to post comments that slag someone please do so correctly. I was once charged with running a bawdy house but was never convicted. That means the state dropped all charges against me. Could it be that it was because they had no evidence to back up the charges in the first place? And in case you don't know any lawyer or activist familar with the case will tell you the charges were politically motivated. IE I was the community leader in speaking out that a Serial Killer was stalking DTES Sex Trade workers. So perhaps learn your politics baby because in my view those who spread Lies are not worthy of much respect.

I figure you owe me an apology Jini Singh and I hope you are human enough to give it. But I doubt you will. Spreading lies tells me you must be a real sad individual.

By the way if you are going to post from my blog please do so. But don't take comments out of context please. The realities are that if you work in the sex trade or previously worked in a public way on sex trade issues, you essentially become unemployable in any of those social diservice agencies wrecking havoc in my neighborhood.

Jamie Lee

Dangrice:

You say, "As far as society is concerned, the sex trade is no different than any other profession, except where moral judgements come into play."

I'd ask you how many other "professions" have 70% of their members victims of sexual abuse? I think that is something that sets prostitution apart from other jobs.

Jamie Lee:

Apologies for the error on your actual conviction. I didn't google aggressively enough, apparently. Maybe the problem is I was using Yahoo.

I still think you're drawing fine distinctions. One person's line is another person's smudge.

You're argument that you were a political target doesn't mean much though; you seriously belive the Vancouver Police is so corrupt that they're laying charges against people who question them? On that basis alone millions would be charged on the pot policy alone.

And the dropping of charges? Maybe they just don't care about you, and didn't want to spend the money prosecuting a fairly benign case against a person known for doing anything to seek publicity (I mean, you campaign against the NPA but joined they're anti-ward campaign even though most people agree that if there's one community in Vancouver that will benefit most from having wards it's the DTES, which seriously needs an advocate.)

How exactly did I take your comment out of context or, more to the point, how did I take it out of context in a meaningful way? My comment had little reference to the actual quote, which was used as an illustration only.

Personally, I think the VPD doesn't lay enough prostitution charges. The DTES is a public embarassement.

CHRIS H:
How many other professions invite sex into their daily milieu?

But, as a partial answer to your hypothetical, think about that the next time you fly and stare at a stewardess, or linger too long on the waitresses navel at your local bar.

Women suffer sexual abuse all the time, depending on how aggressively you're defining the term.

Damn it Jamie Lee. Have you read your blogger profile:
http://www.blogger.com/profile/3578519

You list your occupation as Madam.

It that's not sex work, what is?

Glad you got all self righteous though. Typical of hypocrites.

hey baby how can I get your number?

A whore is a whore is a whore.
The issue is much more than addiction. Working women on the streets are continually marginalized and the latent snobbery in this somewhat incoherent letter is obvious. When jail is proposed for persons who reject compulsory treatment it shows the shallow level of thought given to one of society's most important but ignored questions: what creates a drug addict? I have no idea what the answer is but I know that X's letter only furthers the stigmatization of people who don't need charity, but justice.

The article is `elitist` and a sad commentary on the human condition. Even prostitues have a hierarchy. I can say this because I shall never be homeless, mentally ill or unemployed. In fact I think I`ve got death beat as well. It seems I`m not the only one deluded.

Jini Singh

you are so funny!

The Madam is a moniker I use to be light. But I am a Sex Worker and proud of it. I'm no shrinking violet either. Again for the record you take my quote from my blog out of context. I use it to inform readers that I shouldn't have my resume dismissed because of a previous trumped up charge. The reality though is that it is. I also can't get a license from the city because I would have to be interviewed by the Police who approve such licences. Do you know of any other license category in the city which requires this? The answer is No.

Now Jini I want to provide you a little legal history lesson. In terms of laying of charges, there has to be a two part threshold test. Is there liklihood of conviction and is it in the Public Interest?

When charges against me were dropped the Top Crown Geoff Gaul said this. It is not in the Public Interest to proceed. That is interesting don't you think?

By the way, there should be a separation between the police and crown. Increasingly there isn't and this is problematic for society.

But you state that sex workers should always be charged? So you think its ok to charge people for doing what is legal to do?

Geez real nice person you are.

Jamie Lee

Jamie Lee, I'd suggest you ignore this flamer because Jini Singh, whoever she/he is obviously has some moral concerns over who may be doing what with whom, but certainly doesn't cringe one iota when it comes to dancing across the ethical lines to turn a criminal charge that was rejected before it got to court into a full blown conviction.

"One person's line is another person's smudge," sounds an awful lot like the excuses offered by the six VPD members after they beat up "suspected" drug dealers in Stanley Park.

Thank You Allan, you are so correct! Thanks for pointing this out.

Someone earlier said that 75% of sex workers are abused. I just want to say that if this stat is correct it only represents those who have reported this. This means usually this info comes from social service agencies. In comparison it represents less than 1% of a million sex workers worldwide, most who as you can guess from the 1% do not access these social service agencies.

Jamie Lee

The 70% sexual abuse is pretty much the average of the studies I read when I took Lowman's prostition course up at SFU sometime in the early 90s. The definition for sexual abuse varied from study to study, and some of them only looked at sexual abuse before the first act of prostitution. Singh's assertion that all women have been sexually abused just shows how ignorant Singh's statements are. Sexual abuse is not what Singh claims it to be. Read the Criminal Code if you want more insight.

quite educational and informative.

Hi Chris H

Glad you took JLO's course. He's great.

I think the 70 percent comes from the studies of women accessing the social services, as you correctly articulate. Most sex workers don't use these social services though becuz you need to first buy into the philosophy of abolitionist or experiential women dogma/criteria. The stuff that Rape Relief, PEERS and others promote/espouse.

Lowman's research though shows us why we need to change our laws. There is a class system at play and we need to change that.

Thanks for the info re:J Singh. You are bang on Chris!!!

Cheers

Jamie Lee

Obviously, all those studies have flaws like you suggest. From your knowledge, Jamie Lee, what would you estimate the percentage of prostitutes are in Vancouver that have been sexually assualted?

As a young man, at the time, it was disturbing to find out that a large number of the girls and boys who began selling their bodies had been sexually abused as children. That, more than anything else, changed my mind on the nature of prostitution. Lowman's mantra about prostitution being about "no choice" hit home.

It isn't surprising that some will post here and have absolutely no respect for prostitutes. They are ignorant individuals. While working as a grade one teacher in the DTES, a few of my moms were often spotted working the street. One should remember that the prostitute you see on the street is much more than what you see. They are people first. The Jini Singhs of the world have a hard time appreciating that.

Hi Chris H!

Thank You for your wonderful insight!

I'd say most of the girls on track (DTES stroll) get assaulted regularly. Its because some creeps come down there thinking they can get away with it. The politicians have done nothing. That is why we need to improve safety conditions.

JLO (Lowman)is right. There is No Choice for many. As I always say it boils down to economic survival. And most everyone faced with issues beyond their control will willingly do almost anything to survive.

In terms of sexual abuse many girls and guys who access social services report this. I know even for me it was the case.

But I also know this that I found a better support system from others who were on the street too. Police could not protect us neither can the service agencies which all close down at 4 or 5pm. But other sex workers can. We develop trust with each other and if we are victimized it is usually another worker who hears first hand our cries for help. In turn we always try to look out for one another.

You are correct about the Jini Singh's though.

Keep caring Chris H! We need more like you!

Jamie Lee

Oh Jamie, Jamie, Jamie.

Poor Jamie.

You said:

When did I say this?

I said:

VPD turns a blind eye, in part because of politics, to any number of illegal actitivities on the DTES

Quite simply, would you suggest that people who live on the DTES WANT to live in the kind of conditions many of them do? Would you suggest that people like sleeping in alleys that are filled with the stench of urine, and SRO Hotels filled with people suffering from mental illnesses?

You seem to view the police as the enemy - this is a narrow view. The Police are a part of the Legal system which is part of societies overall social matrix. The Legal system can help people, and the officers who work the Downtown Eastside beat are the frontline.

Teen aged girls who have been sexually abused and are now making a living selling their bodies need help - VPD can be a part of this solution.

My experience with Police officers has been that they are positive, hard working people who try to do their job the best they can. If they had the resources, they could be your best friends.

You've drawn your line in the sand though. Quite clearly.

You're also quite focused on a past failing - use this failing to move foward, instead of reliving the past.

I would first of all like to commend Escort X for stepping forward to make some very intelligent and practical suggestions.

I believe the concerns of this author are very much justified. If government steps in and creates red light districts then in essence it is the state stepping in, curtailing the freedoms of these women and creating a much worse situation for all concerned.

Oh Jini Jini Jini

Poor Jini!

You said the police don't lay enough prostitution charges. Last time I checked prostitution is still legal in Canada. So using your logic you think its ok to lay charges against law abiding citizens. Talk about warped thinking?

I know there are decent cops in the DTES. I include Odd Squad members and Dave Dickson among others.

But my point is this. The police should not have to polce social/political issues Jini.

By the way, I do use the past to move forward. I use the strengths from historical movements to guide and direct me. Perhaps you may try it Jini! It works!

In tems of your concern about juvenile prostitution why are the police if they are so great not charging Men who use these services. Isn't child exploitation a crime? Why no charges Jini if the police are doing their jobs so well?

Jamie Lee

OK. Jamie Lee. You've convinced me. Absolutely.

Since you're a madam, I'm hoping you'll take this opportunity to offer up my services. I'd love to earn a little money on the side.

I guess it won't really be on the side though, since I'm unemployed. It'll be my Full Time Job.

Hire me out baby!

Gotta warn you though, I'm an overweight brown woman. Not as easy to market as those waif thin, sexually abused, heroin addicted blonde girls.

You can do it though. You're pretty smart.

I await my first job.

Oh Jini You are funny! How cute!
Anyway Jini in the real world even overweight brown girls have stature!

By the way, please look at what a Madam means. It has more than one meaning you know.

Oh and for the record Jini, sell it sell it sell it!

- Chris.

I think I screwed up on a tense when I said there is no difference, I meant there should be no difference. The sex industry can and should be on the same level as any other, and there definately needs to be safety regulations or a guild to protect the workers.

I do realize there is a difference between what is and what should be. Strip out the morals, and look at how do you make this a safe legal profession. We don't send children down the coal mines, but we still have miners.

While in the DTES there are a lot of people who need help, the sex trade for some, like the author, is a profession. There may be a lot of people in it who need protection, but the question is, how should the industry work, and how do we get there, and how do we help those who have resorted to it, but will not for health reasons or other reasons be part of the industry's future.

This conversation needs some levity. A story about the possible outcome of the legalization of the sex trade profession:

A dedicated Local 416 Union worker was attending a
convention in Vancouver and decided to check out the
local brothels. When he got to the first one, he asked
the Madam, "Is this a union house?" No," she replied,
"I'm sorry, it isn't." "Well, if I pay you $100.00,
what cut do the girls get?" "The house gets $80.00 and
the girls get $20.00." Mightily offended at such
unfair dealings, the man stomped off down the
street in search of a more equitable, hopefully
unionized shop.

His search continued until finally he reached a
brothel where the Madam responded, "Why, yes, sir,
this IS a union house." The man asked, "And if I pay
you $100.00, what cut do the girls get?" "The girls
get $80.00 and the house gets $20.00."

"That's more like it!!!" the Teamster said.
He handed the Madam $100.00, looked around the room
and pointed to a stunningly attractive blonde. "I'd
like her for the night."

"I'm sure you would, sir," said the Madam, then
pointing to an 85-year-old woman in the corner, "but
Ethel here has seniority."

hahahahhha, thats great!

Sounds like bait and switch! Thanks for the great joke.

I love it!!!! Jamie Lee

We never have people demanding that the government deals with the root causes of so much social problems. As a society we create conditions where people are going to be divided and having no choices but to be prostitutes drug addicted etc...
When will we take up the real issues and stop the pussy footing around?
Prostitution and drugs are not real choices.