This event is not for the common folk

The world elites have to throw a few billion-dollar party every now and then (at our expense) to celebrate all their global accomplishments.

This event is not for the common folk even though the common folk are the ones paying for it. This is for the gang of criminals that run the show: corporations, governments, media… oh yes, let’s not forget their prized thoroughbreds who will be the source of their amusement: the athletes.

The event is also for the purpose of fast tracking the high tech surveillance grid, (at our expense) to keep the common folk in check while they complete the final stages of their mass looting.

The common folk should not leave town but avoid this elitists’ bash like the plague. Save your money, you’re gonna need it.

VanFan

Geez, I feel sorry for people like you. No ability to look beyond one's own personal gratification and see the bigger picture.

I guess you think Galileo discovered that the Sun revolves around you?

Guess what, other people besides you live in BC.

Imagine if right-wingers went away

Imagine how much fun the Tyee would be if the terminally argumentative didn't show up on a daily basis to a website they say they dislike and spout endlessly about how they disagree with everybody here about everything.

I guess the idea of spending their time on right-wing sites only adds to the boredom of their lives and they need some excitement that their dark little room doesn't provide.

I guess declaring that all the problems of the world are the NDP's fault and having someone notice them is the closest they get to an orgasmic experience?

JIm

"the terminally dour" Good one!

We're rounding up a few loonies so we can offer bus tickets to Fort McMurray for a February break to those who just want to, get away. They will have a great time, they can sing Maggie's Farm over and over and over and over......VANOC seem interested, after all they do have a budget surplus and this could be a win win.

My sympathies

To the right-wingers here. My god your lives must be pathetic if you find entertainment only in trolling a left-of-centre website.

I suggest you unionize PAB so that you can afford to go to a movie.

The Right has lost their raison d'etre

Over half of Fox news viewers are over 63 and the majority of those are men.

If you have a bottle drive to pay for a higher cable bill perhaps you could join your demographic?

R/man you must be joking

"there is no question that the exposure for the city and the visitors and support-crews will benefit everyone in British Columbia." EVERYONE? REALLY? I can't stop laughing, I must take a break.....now....

You like to watch TV?

REALISTICMAN AND FRANK -- PLEASE DON'T USE THE TYEE THREADS TO LOB PERSONAL INSULTS AT EACH OTHER. -- TYEE MODERATOR

The only US news I watch is on PBS. I watch Canadian news on CBC.

When I read Frank writing last week "I hope the flu doesn't hit here until Campbell's 2 week party is in swing. That would be funny." I can only feel sorry for you Frank. That you would even contemplate such a possibly devastating eventuality just goes to show how jaded your mind has become. I do hope this was just a mistaken joke. We cannot imagine that Glen Clark, who enthusiastically pushed the Olympic bid forward, shares your nasty sentiment.

Space Cadet skywalker doesn't appear to know that tourism is one of British Columbia's largest industries and the Olympics could not be a better showcase.

If you go...

Campbells lackeys down at the PAB spin-weasel factory won`t have much reason to visit the tyee.

The right-wingers that pathetically hang around here...

"I can only feel sorry for you Frank."

I wish you'd feel sorry for the people hurt by the policies of this government.

But considering how in the past you've laughed at the child poverty numbers that is apparently too much to hope for. One can only hope you find the Olympics as amusing as you you do needy kids.

As for JIm, years ago on this forum he thought it was funny when large numbers of older, female, HEU members were fired from their jobs so I know he'll enjoy the 2 week party paid for on the backs of the disadvantaged.

Right-wing "tea party" people

"just goes to show how jaded your mind has become."

Not jaded enough, nor bored enough, nor pathetic enough, to spend my days trolling at newsmagazine websites that don't share my views.

But of course you go ahead.

Frank, What's wrong with diversity of opinion?

I have a big problem with stereotyping people who think the games will be good for our city as being "right-wing". Sport doesn't have an ideology. Neither does economic prosperity (although universal economic misery seems to share one).

I also don't think the Tyee should become a robot-like, solemn head-nodding, criticism free place. If you're brave enough to write an opinion article, you should expect to be have to defend it (although I have no doubt Bill's willing to do that).

I swear, some of you are hellbent on turning the Tyee into the left wing version of Fox News.

leftofcentre

We live in a world full of media. Even here in BC there are a lot of media outlets where one can hang out. Everything from Can-West, CTV, CBC, National Post, Globe and Mail, CKNW talk radio, the Tyee and a lot of other blogs and websites.

CKNW and CanWest are already full of right-wingers, which refuse to allow other voices. I'm sure we all remember the outcry when CKNW considered hiring a left-winger?

Rather than be forced to listen to Asper Nation or read Jon Ferry, Left-wingers have had to find alternative media. The Tyee is obviously such a place as no one would mistake Rafe, Bill T. and Murray Dobbin for Campbell supporters.

Yet, many of you can't allow such a place to exist. It bothers you on some gutteral level that there may be a website somewhere where left-wingers would be free to converse without being subjected to constant trolling.

So you guys show up in spite of having almost all the media in this province on your side already.

As for Fox News, it doesn't have to be diverse, its existence is part of the overall diversity of the media. It appeals to a certain demographic made up mainly of angry old right-wing men.

Much like CKNW in BC.

I cheer as CanWest subscriptions fall, I cheer as CKNW loses its audience, but I gave up asking them to be more diverse years ago.

And I think its appalling that you think the Tyee should be more right-wing like the majority of the media available in this province.

Why are you against diverse media?

Frank, you don't understand democracy...

Think about what you just said, Frank. You just called a moderate, left-of-centre person who believes in social programs, help for the homeless, and thinks Stephen Harper is an abomination a right-winger...all because I believe the Olympics are good thing for Vancouver in the long-run. In short, the same thing that the NDP believes.

I believe ALL media should be challenged, and certainly the Tyee should never be immune from that (and I'm sure their editors would agree). Otherwise, you lose the REAL point of having a free media, which is diversity of opinion. In a democracy, WE ARE THE FINAL OPINION MAKERS, not the media. If you believe the only way that can happen is to cocoon yourself in the warm, unchallenged view of people who think exactly the same as you, you'll only be disappointed in everything life has to offer. The world is full of 6 billion different opinions and points of view. There's a lot more out there than the tired old Left vs. Right, and certainly more that this extremist "I don't agree with you, so you're my enemy" train of thought.

We want a closed shop

and no heckling. I somehow doubt that David Beers wants an on-line news magazine that only attracts a narrow audience. In fact, I'm fairly sure he doesn't. There have been articles on The Tyee that speak of the Olympics in many positive ways such as architectural and transit projects.

Isn't Bill Tielman and Jim Green on CKNW for two different weekly one hour programmes? That's hardly refusing to allow other than right wing voices. It's exactly that kind of comment that deserves and begs to be corrected when it pops up.

Constructive criticism is healthy and frequently one can find it here, along with a perspective on the thinking of the extremists.

Drudge, Bourque, CKNW and the BBC all have different headlines today, haven't yet had time for the NYT. You'll love the Drudge headline Frank, "TROLLING FOR VOTES".

leftofcentre, you don't understand literacy

"all because I believe the Olympics are good thing for Vancouver in the long-run."

Show me where I said any such thing. I didn't even mention the Olympics.

As for you not being a left-winger, I don't go by labels, perhaps you do?

I go by what you say. You always take the right-wing side in any discussions here. That counts for more with me than whatever label you choose for yourself.

Perhaps one day you'll be more honest with yourself?

The diversity in the media is there but you'd prefer to "cocoon" yourself in a world where left-wing voices aren't available. You're against diversity.

Every person on the Tyee can be assumed to have electricity and access to tv, radio and the products of CanWest and the Black Press. There is no shortage of available right-wing opinion anywhere in BC yet you prefer to spend your time demanding that one of the few left-wing news sources available, the Tyee, become more right-wing.

I assume you also post over at CanWest and ProudToBeCanadian demanding they become more left-wing? Do you call in to CKNW demanding to hear a left-wing voice? Do you call Team 1040 and demand that at least one of the hosts be a Leafs fan?

Or is it only left-wing websites you're against?

leftofcentre

Your reasoned and well considered opinions are appreciated.

r'man

The day I do what you do and spend all day trolling on ProudToBeCanadian I hope someone shoots me.

Bill is not a journalist

Bailey, please don't call Bill a journalist. There are still many of us that associate that word with noble traits like objectivity and integrity. Bill is a communications consultant (think of that term in its Orwellian sense). The job of a journalist is to simply report the truth. An editorialist interprets the truth. Communications consultants (PR flacks for hire) manipulate people's perception of the truth. Think of him as an anti-journalist.

Why the Tyee gives him a bully pulpit to promote his business is beyond me.

ReeferMadness

I think that's a ridiculous comment and an uncalled for slur - Tieleman is, in many ways, a much more honest journalist than most.

He states his biases right up front - unlike many, if not most paid scribes.

The time when journalists simply reported the 'truth' was never - as anyone with a history of the 'profession' knows.

Have you not read 'Scoop'?

If you haven't, you ought to.

Agreed G West

You said it all.

G West

An honest journalist? Good thing I wasn't drinking something when I read that!

Look at his blog. Bill makes no claim to be a journalist. He claims to be a "communicator, political commentator and strategist".

Show me one piece of real journalism that he's written. Something objective that portrays both sides of the story. Something based on facts not corporatist mentality coated with a thin veneer of social consciousness.

Look through the archive of his work here at Tyee

He's every bit as much, and more - since he plainly states his bias - as Palmer, Good and gang never do.

As far as that other claim of yours, you know the one ... "that associate(s) that word (journalism) with noble traits like objectivity and integrity"...I think you're the one who's been drinking.

Who'd you like to nominate for an award?

Because I guarantee you that I can cite two or three rascals for every paragon you imagine you 'remember'....

Journalism isn't even, in my view, worthy of being called a professional activity except in the sense that it's done for money.

Furthermore, journalism as an academic course of study is a late invention - and not always a respected one.

Tieleman is, a much more honest journalist than most - as I wrote - largely because he doesn't purport to be one.

As for his 'social conscience', you may see it as a thin veneer - it's a hell of a lot thicker than the accretion of scum that sticks to most scribes these days so I'll classify that as a compliment.

But, as I said, pick up a copy of Scoop from your library, read it – then we’ll talk!

Double standard, G West?

So Bill is a much more honest journalist because he doesn't purport to be one? What nonsense!! I don't claim to be a surgeon - is it OK if I operate on you?

Bill's working both sides of the street. On one hand, he produces "commentary" on issues such as, say, the Olympics. On the other, he advises clients whose interests may be affected by those same issues. There is definitely reason to suspect conflict of interest. If Vaughn Palmer or Norman Spector were providing "communication services" to corporate clients, would you and the other "Bill can do no wrong"-ers here be so understanding?

And as for plainly stating his bias, does he share his client list with you? Do you also know his prospective and past clients? If not, you cannot know his biases.

Yeah, well..

I won't be catching the ferry off my rock until after all the craziness has subsided and the people have gone. I won't be turning on my TV, starting in about a month. And I will be hoping like hell that it pours rain in the city and on the ski hill.

What the hell. They've blown the money anyway. I may as well hope that Campbell's legacy is of the biggest failed Owelympics in history!!

Reprisent your home

I proposed the same question to myself. I wasn't sure If I wanted to protest the Olympics or get out of town and entirely ignore the scab of development.
However, I reconsidered and concluded on the middle ground.
I'm going to be a Legal Observer of the Games in order to stay involved with the protection of our home from international development and media frenzy. But also stay a safe and objective distance for my own sanity.

This poor city by the ocean and mountains needs its caretakers around to watch over the house party the teenagers are throwing.

No double standard at all reefer

But I notice you haven't actually taken up my challenge to provide a list of those practitioners who do the job with integrity and objectivity.

How come?

I guess it's just easier to make your arguments 'personal' than to actually analyze an issue and come up with something more than a critique of the messenger.

Why am I not surprised....enjoy the Olympics...As for Norman Spector - I'd say he's about the 'worst' example of journalistic ability you could pick...but, at the same time, he's a lot like Tieleman - he wears his biases on his sleeve and he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

The G West "Challenge"

Your challenge? I thought that was a rhetorical question. I don't follow reporters like rock stars. I will say that I think CBC Radio's The Current does a creditable job of presenting issues in a balanced fashion.

As far as getting 'personal' goes, give me a break. Not only does Tieleman practise in an industry whose practises are diametrically opposed to good journalism, he uses "stories" like this one to link to his blog. Which (surprise, surprise) serves as an advertisement for his business.

As far as I'm concerned questioning Bill's objectivity is fair comment. You might even call it "good journalism" :)

Now back to you. Do you have Bill's client list? And if the likes of Palmer and Spector ran their own consulting practises, are we really to believe you wouldn't claim it to be influencing their viewpoints?

No.

The 'personal' reference was with respect to your 'attitude' toward discussion.

As long as a writer discloses who he represents, works for or has worked for I think that's fine.

People like Palmer (who schmoozes with politicos at the Grand Pacific 'all' the time something I happen to know because I have a membership in the same Athletic Club - full disclosure remember) who pretend to be objective.

As for Anna-Maria Tremonte, I think she's a decent journalist too - unfortunately, she's working in a medium and at a network that's in the midst of dumbing itself down to the level of earthworms at the moment.

CBC Radio is far from what it was even 2 years ago - and not in a good way.

Disclosure

G West "As long as a writer discloses who he represents, works for or has worked for I think that's fine." Then, you must agree that Bill can't be considered objective until he's disclosed his client list - particularly when you consider the relationship between his editorials and his business.

BTW, it's Bill himself who personalized all of this by writing an editorial which is essentially about himself. And he still supports this boondoggle. While the city is preparing to toss the homeless in jail to spare itself, the IOC and the province embarrassment, while thousands deal with unemployment and abject poverty, Bill agonizes over his dilemma. A trip to Mexico or dump a pile of bucks on the Olympics. There's very much a 'let them eat cake' undertone here.

A while back, Bill wrote about the emerging class war in BC. I'm still wondering whose side he's on.

Reefer

Bill was also against the federal Coalition in spite of everybody who understood how parliament works saying that was how parliament should be run.

Iggy was also against the Coalition although I bet now he wishes he hadn't been so hasty.

Bill Tieleman responds

Thanks for the many interesting comments - I will update readers when I decide but good arguments have been made on both sides.

At 24 hours poll it was 61% stay and 39% go, while at my blog - http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/ - it is almost the opposite: 64% go to 36% stay.

I will address a few comments by my constant critic ReeferMadness however.

Needless to say to regular readers, it doesn't matter what I write about, Reefer doesn't like it. Perhaps the STV defeat and my part in it has permanently soured him or her.

But for the record, I work primarily with labour organizations as well as non-profits and businesses and occasionally government agencies.

I don't write about my current clients without disclosing that information - it rarely happens.

I'm not about to publish my client list here or elsewhere - it would be inappropriate.

As to my journalist status, I have never claimed to be an "objective reporter" - something I don't believe exists anyway - but I work very hard to be fair when I do news stories, particularly on the Basi-Virk case. I think the long list of kind comments I've received from full-time journalists - see them at my blog - is indication of that and I appreciate it greatly.

When I write opinion columns - like this one - it's a different matter. It's what I think and I hold strong opinions - that's why I've been doing this in one publication or another since 1998.

I make no bones about being on the left politically and expect people to use that as part of their media literacy when they read my column. But as has been point out here and before, I sometimes disagree vehemently with the NDP both provincially and federally and say so, rather loudly in their view!

Overall, I think it's what makes my writing somewhat different than other columnists.

Lastly, I am fortunate that I make a good living and do travel when I'm able - I certainly understand that many people in this province cannot do the same.

The point of the column was more about whether one should enjoy or avoid the Olympics - where and how you might avoid it is not the central question, though for some Vancouver residents it obviously will be on their doorstep.

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Reefer

I think my position is perfectly clear...yours is too.

Face it, you haven't got a list of responsible 'journalists' have you?

I don't agree with everything Bill writes - as Frank points out, he was against the coalition and I was for it; he was against STV and I voted 'yes'...but he's open and up front about what he believes and, as long as people don't write libel, he publishes everyone's point of view on his blog.

I'd say that's a hell of a lot more than anyone gets from the MSM...

And, even though you didn't ask, I won't be spending a penny (other than the tax dollars which I can't do anything about) on this stupid party...just for the record.

Good point, Frank

I had completely forgotten that Bill joined the Harper-led hysteria against the coalition. Thanks.

G West - I'm not CSIS and I don't keep a list of journalists. I thought we'd already established that. And if I did keep a list of journalists, Tieleman wouldn't be on it because he's not one. I note that you've avoided addressing most of my points and instead you bring up pointless diversions - like this one.

Impossible to have a discussion with some people

What the hell has CSIS to do with it?

You posted a comment which compared Tieleman with a fictitious and apparently non-existent band of journalists with certain estimable qualities that 'he' doesn't share.

The onus is on you to produce a list - you provided one name.

I think the implication is clear - you have a personal animus toward Bill Tieleman – which is fine of course – but it has nothing to do with his opinions or the fact he makes his views known in a plain and transparent way.

I think that's pretty sad - especially for someone who hides behind an acronym - but that's okay, I'll simply ignore you in the future.

I've addressed every one of your points and you know it - last bit of advice, read Evelyn Waugh's novel - it would do you a world of good.

Cheers.

Only constant critic?

Bill,

I'm honoured by the title "constant critic" but I was really shooting for something higher like, maybe, pain in the ass. I promise to try harder in the future.

Maybe you're right and I'm just sore over STV. Or maybe I just see your articles as just an extension of your work in what I consider to be a pretty pathetic industry. And, for the record, if there had been no STV, I'd be still saying the same things about your articles and your views.

You claim to be of the "left", which means little to those of us who can imagine more than one political dimension. In fact, I suspect that your "left orientation" has more to do with your client list than anything else.

A review of your articles shows that you're anti-Liberal, anti-tax and anti-democracy. But you're not anti-everything. You are in favour of corporatist events like the Olympics. If that's called being "left", count me out.

And by the way, I predict that some Vancouver residents will discover another way to avoid the Olympics - jail. That would be those that commit the crimes of homelessness or free speech.

But I believe in fairness, Bill. Just for you, in the future, I'll look harder for something you write that I can agree with.

Your buddy,
Reefer

It's only impossible when you insist on your terms

G West, I also claim that Bill is not a rocket scientist. Do I need to produce a list of rocket scientists to prove it?

I've never met Bill so it's impossible for me to have a "personal animus" towards him. I don't really care for the work that done by "backroom boys". And it's certainly inappropriate for political fixers to make a pretense of being legitimate journalists. Nor do I care for his views which I consider anti-democratic and corporatist.

Does all of that add up to "personal animus"?

Yep - and here's why...these are your words - did you forget?

Go, Bill
Bill, I think you should go to Mexico where you can witness first hand the type of low-wage, no-security employment that will be created by the Olympics. Or maybe to Disneyland where you can see the type of artificial spectacle that the Olympics has become. Perhaps you could visit Alberta where people are much more willing to prostitute their sense of community for "economic development". Of course, you might feel so at home there, you just won't want to come back. Good luck with your decision,

Bill. I'm sure that all of people in this province who are just scraping by are waiting with bated breath on your decision.

Bailey, please don't call Bill a journalist. There are still many of us that associate that word with noble traits like objectivity and integrity. Bill is a communications consultant (think of that term in its Orwellian sense). The job of a journalist is to simply report the truth. An editorialist interprets the truth. Communications consultants (PR flacks for hire) manipulate people's perception of the truth. Think of him as an anti-journalist.

Why the Tyee gives him a bully pulpit to promote his business is beyond me.

Sure reads like personal animus to me!

Maybe you're seeing what you want to see

Let me summarize what I've been saying.

WRT the Olympics: I think it's a boondoggle by the wealthy for the wealthy; supported by public funds. I think it's having a negative impact on some of the poorest and most vulnerable people in BC. I think there is a ham-fisted attempt to stamp out legitimate protest, resulting in police harrassment and suppression of free speech. And from what I've read, there was already an established pattern of these effects on other cities before we bid on it. How anyone who claims to support the poor and downtrodden can promote this as good for BC is beyond my understanding.

WRT Bill Tieleman: As I've already said, I've never met Bill. As I said earlier, I believe that the role of a communications consultant involves manipulating peoples perceptions to the benefit of the customer. I haven't seen anything from you, Bill or anyone else that would refute or deny this my perception. I also believe there is a natural incongruity and conflict between this role and that of a journalist. Looking at the type of clients that Bill takes on, I think it's fair to surmise that his clients have an interest in much if not most of the topics of Bills' articles. So, if you think that Bill's consulting role has no influence on what he writes and how he writes it, we'll have to agree to disagree. At least his anti-STV partner Schreck is able to pick a role and stick to it.

Going from memory, Bill's notable viewpoints have included the following:
- against the national coalition government (which is a perfectly valid democratic construct)
- against STV (and, IIRC, PR in general)
- in favour of mandatory voting (in my view, mandatory voting is often favoured by political insiders who want to protect the status quo and cover up the fact that democracy is failing)
- against the carbon tax
- against the HST

Frankly, I haven't seen a lot to admire either in terms of substance or style.

You and Bill have each skimmed the issues in favour of accusing me of personal bias. It's classic political behaviour - keep the other guy on the defensive. I hope that you, at least, are capable of rising above it.

No more new "Venues"

From a practical point of view the best solution is to have all olympic events at one place, every time.
We are wasting rescources by insisting on building new structures every two years.
Sure one can justify some new sports facilities, here and there, but it should be as needed, not because of a two week event held once in a lifetime in those structures.
I would suggest that the original location is as good as any, but really do not care since the average person cannot afford to attend no mattter where it is held.
We are all used to seeing it on TV, so why not cut out all that commercial BS?

venues

Semi-permanent facilities are a good idea. I'd personally suggest 3 or 4 Games (12 - 16 years) per locale to leverage local expertise and investment and then spread the wealth (or debt) but the idea has merit.

Want journalists who needn't rely on private enterprise contracts to pay their bills?

http://thetyee.ca/About/Donate/

To poach from the starving children of the word... for just a dollar a day, you could help fund a media that doesn't rely on its workers having to juggle a client list and a contact list.

(disclosure: as a freelance writer, I would benefit from more money targeted to supporting entities such as The Tyee)

starving children of the

starving children of the 'world.' Wow, some typos are more Freudian that others!