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Elizabeth May's Historic Night

Canada’s first Green MP celebrates with supporters in an airplane hanger full of hope.

By Andrew MacLeod, 3 May 2011, TheTyee.ca

Elizabeth May

May: "We need compassion over competition."

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Green Party Leader Elizabeth May has won election in the British Columbia riding of Saanich-Gulf Islands, becoming the first person from her party ever elected to the Canadian parliament.

She celebrated the victory with rounds of thanks to the many volunteers who worked on her campaign, and criticized the media for shutting her out of the debate and largely ignoring the Greens during the election.

"Today we proved that Canadians want change in politics," May told an enthusiastic crowd of supporters gathered in an airplane hangar in Sidney for election night.

"I remain committed, as I've been throughout this campaign, and all of us are, to rejecting the politics of cynicism and fear, to embracing hope, to respect and bringing respect back to the House of Commons," she said.

With a few polls still to report, she had 29,900 votes to 22,500 for Conservative cabinet minister Gary Lunn, a victory campaign workers were calling a landslide. The NDP's Edith Loring-Kuhanga was a distant third, ahead of Liberal Renee Hetherington.

Lunn's vote total at that point was 5,488 fewer than he received when he won in 2008.

May said Lunn was gracious during a call after it was clear he had lost and that she plans to seek his help in the future since he knows the riding well.

'Amateurs built the arc'

May vowed to use her time in Ottawa to shake up politics in a Parliament where Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper has won his first majority.

"I will never shrink from speaking truth to power," said May. "Nor will I embrace the politics of spin. We need hope over fear. We need compassion over competition."

People said there were too many seniors in the riding who wouldn't vote Green, she said. "People don't get that our seniors are rocking," she said, noting that former Chilliwack guitarist Bill Henderson has been an active supporter.

They also said the Greens wouldn't be able to compete against Lunn's well-oiled election machine. "Amateurs built the ark," she said. "Professionals built the Titanic."

To win, she built a team that was more like a grassroots movement. "This campaign has been about commitment, passion, enthusiasm and excitement that we could all feel sweeping through the riding," she said. People came to believe "that we could decide to embrace what's possible and even what's impossible," she said.

"What we do now is what will prove the virtues and the benefits of what we've accomplished so far," she said. "The work is just beginning... We have to prove to all of Canada that one MP for the Green Party, one MP with a different approach, one MP not squashed by partisanship and entangled in cynicism, can actually make a big difference."

In the excitement of the moment, it wasn't until 10 minutes into her speech, after she'd told folks in Gaelic in her Cape Breton hometown that she loved them, that she remembered to say a few words in French.

Local gain, national drop

The stakes were high for May and the Greens in the election. They chose the riding for May to run in based on polling that suggested it was one of the most winnable ones for the party. May moved to B.C. from Nova Scotia and worked at becoming a presence in local politics. She attended a local church and joined the Rotary Club.

The party put enough funding into the riding that she would spend close to the limit and she spent almost the entire campaign in the riding. It was more important, the argument went, for May to win a seat than it was for her to be a national presence.

It was a strategy that had an apparent downside. While May won her seat, the party's share of the national popular vote dropped to 3.91, down from 6.78 per cent in the 2008 election. And with parties receiving public subsidies of roughly $2 per vote each year, the decline will hurt the party's bottom line.

May, in a scrum with reporters, said the Green's strategy wasn't what hurt the national campaign. "It's pretty clear we weren't given anything like the same degree of news coverage in 2011 as we were in 2008," she said. "My national leaders tour happened without real media coverage. I was the only national party leader to campaign in Calgary, and it got covered in Calgary but not across the country."

May also criticized the consortium of broadcast media executives who kept her out of the national leaders' debates. "[They] made a decision not only to not invite me to the leaders' debates, but essentially to not invite the Greens to the election," she said.

"At the end of the election, the leader they didn't expect to see in the house is there, me, and the leaders they thought would be there, Michael Ignatieff and Gilles Duceppe, they were sure they'd be there, and they're gone," she said.

"In terms of election results, the big losers tonight are all the pundits," she said, laughing.

The Green Party will work with the funding it has and receives enough donations so that it does not have to rely on the public subsidies as much as some people think it does, she said. "With this seat here we will be building and we will have a stronger party when we go into the next election."

Provincial impact?

Among the attendees was B.C. Green leader Jane Sterk.

"I think it's fabulous," she said as it became clear May was going to win. "This is a game changer for Elizabeth, for the federal party.

"I expect it will maybe make the media sit up and take notice that Greens can get elected," she said. "Maybe it will make the polling firms actually start to ask about the Green Party again."

May will do a great job, working hard, paying close attention to what the government is doing and letting people know, Sterk predicted. "I think she will demonstrate a different kind of political respect and civility."

Support for May was widespread in the riding, not limited to the Gulf Islands where the party has long done well, Sterk observed. "This demonstrates she went through on the Peninsula as well which is good, very good."

The victory will give people in the provincial party much to think about, she acknowledged. "It means we have a lot of work to do to see if we can capitalize on this. I think it makes Saanich-North and the Islands a much more interesting riding than it's ever been before," she said.

"We're going to be talking with some folks about that to see what we should do," she said. "You know what, given the potential for a September election, we're going to have to work bloody hard."

The drop in the national vote shouldn't be blamed on the local focus strategy, she said. "It's a consequence of the media shutting out our candidate and the polling firms not polling for the Greens."

Greens getting professional

"This will definitely be a breakthrough of international significance," said Ken Wu, an environmental activist who worked as May's communications director and event organizer.

"North America is the centre of world power still, at least for now, and to get a Green through a first-past-the-post system on this continent is unheard of. It'll shift the dynamics."

Wu said he always thought May would have a chance in the riding, but never thought she would win by such a large margin. "When I heard she was going to run, I thought, 'It's doable, but there's still probably a 60-40 chance that the Conservatives will take it, but it's worth a shot.'"

The party became much more professional during the campaign, doing things like working to identify some 17,000 Green supporters they could target with a get-out-the-vote effort, he said.

Lori Waters is a Central Saanich resident who has been involved in several battles to preserve farmland and the rural character of the area, who helped on May's campaign. "I'm elated," she said. "I'm absolutely overjoyed and I think it's going to help us a lot locally."

A couple months ago she started to believe May could win people over, she said. "I'm so glad that Lunn is done," she said. "I just think he was out for his buddies and not for the public good, so I'm glad he's gone."

Bright spot in dark times

Long time Green organizer Steve Burtch was one of the people who "signed the party into existence" in 1984. Had he known it would take so long to get someone elected nationally, he would have been discouraged, he said, but with May's victory it feels worth the effort. "It's never too late. This is the beginning."

Acting as a scrutineer for the party it was heartening to see large numbers of young people voting, and May will be the ideal antidote to a Harper majority, he said. "They've got the Darth Vader and the Death Star, we've got our Luke Skywalker now. I like the odds."

The election was about competing ideas of Canada, said longtime environmentalist Vicky Husband. She asked, "Are we going to be this moderate, kind, human-centred country, or are we going to go the way of Harper?"

Harper's positions on climate change and the Middle East have been backwards, she said. "We are not regarded in the way we were before, and for me that's scary," she said. "It's a very scary future. He's changing our country, my country, and I think that it's time for the people to say to him what we want."

While disappointed with Harper winning a majority, Husband said she was glad May won. The two have known each other some 25 years, and May's daughter Victoria is named after Husband. "This is the bright spot of the whole election," Husband said. "If we can elect Elizabeth here in Saanich-Gulf Islands on southern Vancouver Island, that is the joyful news of this election."

May has an analytical mind and is a strong communicator, she added. "[May] will be our conscience, our eye on democracy in Canada," she said. "I think she's going to make everybody care about what's going on in Ottawa." [Tyee]

Andrew MacLeod is The Tyee's Legislative Bureau Chief in Victoria. Reach him here.

30 Comments:

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  • Waltz

    1 year ago

    Elizabeth May is the only good news

    But the unthinkable has happened for the majority of Canadians.

  • seth

    1 year ago

    Harpers Green team leader - Lizzie May

    With all the close races across the country who who be the first pundit to do the exercise of apportioning the Green vote to the Liberal and NDP losers. Could that 4.3% have been the key difference between Harper's majority and another much less odious minority parliament.

    Now the Green Party has a spokesperson in Parliament. The fascist MSM will be granting her more interviews than than the entire rest of the opposition combined. If the Green party needs any funding at all, the same Denier Big Oil funding that goes to Greenpeace, Pembina, Sierra and Suzuki will make its way into the Green Party.

    Result that 4% Green vote this time becomes 15% next time. 40 Con, 15 Green, 20 Lib, 20 NDP, 5 PQ in perpetuity.

  • editingfool

    1 year ago

    damn

    damn..the only seat i DID want the tories to win

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    She does grate.

    I'm not sure she can control that. If she goes after Harper maybe folks will tolerate her. If not she'll just grate on people's nerves.

  • metacomet

    1 year ago

    Haunting Green Split

    My friend phoned me early this morning ostensibly to share the disappointment that our NDP candidate once again lost a squeaker to the Conservative. But really she wanted to quell my resentment at the Greens who, once again, split the opposition and let the party that represents the biggest threat to the environment win. She pointed out that ours was one of a very few where vote-splitting by the Greens actually made a difference, that their percentage was down somewhat from previous vote-splits, and that if I wanted to blame anyone I'd have to include the Liberal vote, which was similar in number to the Greens'.

    Blame? Who, me? Oh well, at least she got me before I went out in public (thank you, my sweet.)

    But while I may take some consolation with regard to my own riding, I've still got grave concerns about the impact of Elizabeth May's breakthrough win, and about the upcoming BC election. Firstly, the mere fact that there is now a Green member in parliament might be enough to double or treble their support right across the country, but not enough to propel them past the post in most ridings; in other words more vote-splitting that doesn't elect Greens but does allow the most environmentally unfriendly party to win. We have four years to prepare for that. Watch how May performs and how the NDP, now the Conservative-spoiler, responds.

    Second, the approaching provincial election will be one of the last opportunities to stop bitumen from spilling over the Rockies to west coast tankers, to stop watershed poisoning mining proposals and ocean polluting fish farms. If the federal Green win encourages a continuation of splitting the anti-BC Liberal vote (as it did in several ridings in the last BC election), then it's tantamount to the Greens sacrificing the environment in order to slowly build ineffectual support with the hope of someday getting a toe-hold in the provincial government.

    Last night's results show that the federal Greens, at least in my riding, aren't getting that vote-splitting is antithetical to their stated aims. Too much will be at stake in the next BC election to compromise environmental principles for a bit of power somewhere down the road. It will be too late then.

  • Jeffrey J.

    1 year ago

    Time for the NDP-Green Party

    The sooner the NDP and Green Parties sit down and agree to work together, the better. The Green Party candidate in North Vancouver Island single handedly helped to elect John Duncan. Thanks.

    And the NDP tried to twhart Elizabeth May. Thanks.

    These two parties have to grow up and begin acting like adults.

    Starting in the next BC election which is less then six months away.

    If they can't learn to work together, then we're doomed.

    We have an historic opportunity to cooperate, and come together as community with these two parties. We can begin today.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    Why is it...

    ...that there is never an expectation that the Greens use their brains and stop sacrificing the environment for their own political ambitions but the NDP should cater to them in order to prevent continued damage to the environment.. We have had Campbell for the past ten years do some of the worst long-term damage and some of that was made easier because of the Greens. Now they still want to continue because they want their "perfect" solution to be implemented by the NDP. So get a grip Jeffrey J.

  • oldisland

    1 year ago

    Conservative majority "housekeeping" projects

    Just heard that the Conservatives are doing away with the vote subsidy, so no more $2 per vote.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    Yup. When you get the unlimited corporate donations...

    ...why would you worry about whether all the others had a level playing field. The end justifies the means in the conservative world..

  • ReeferMadness

    1 year ago

    Great but....

    It was great to see May win but given the phony majority our phony voting system gave to our phony Prime Minister, it's a hollow victory indeed.

    You NDP partisans should be ashamed of yourselves for your comments. It would have taken the NDP and Liberals to get together to thwart Harper. The Greens didn't get enough votes to do that. And most NDPers flat out refused to vote strategically.

    Also, I understand part of the reason for the collapse in the Liberal seat count was due to a reaction by right wing Liberals who voted strategically for the Cons to prevent an NDP victory.

  • G West

    1 year ago

    Umm ReeferMadness

    That's hardly fair - there were all kinds of efforts undertaken by all kinds of progressives to push strategic voting.

    Just because Tielman thought it was verbotten doesn't cut much ice.

    He's the guy who led the forces who torpedoed the STV, remember?

    Lots and lots of NDPers would have been happy to work with Ignatieff to defeat Harper in a perfectly democratic way WITHOUT and election.

    Guess you've forgotten who rained on THAT parade - it wasn't just Pee Wee.

    Also, Ignatieff spent the first 10 days of the campaign trying to explain his 'thoughts' about coalitions and why he wouldn't think about cooperating with the NDP.

    I suggest you've forgotten THAT too - maybe one too many reefers my friend.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    G West is right.

    If the Liberal candidate here had a hope of even a respectable showing, I would have voted for him just to keep Harper away from his dictatorship. This time it was the NDP as well as a conservative candidate who was a real dud.

    Right wing liberals have been leaving the liberals ever since the liberals took in a few NDP rejects. More left with Iggy because he didn't have the voter appeal needed.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    Lotta rage at Greens

    But I'm not so sure it's all deserved. The point's been made again and again that Greens and socialists are not always on the same side - certainly no more than 1/3-2/3 anyway. Some greens are out-and-out free-market libertarians.

    It's instructive to look at the Green party platform, to see exactly how far it strays in some areas from progressive principles, and in others how closely it conforms.

    http://greenparty.ca/files/attachments/vision_green_2011en_1.pdf

    Greens are truly a hodge-podge of disaffected Canadians, some with exceedingly well-though-out proposals, others with bitter words and bastardized logic.

    Back to the numbers - it's quite likely that the NDP would not have benefitted significantly from eliminating a Green runoff - some would have voted Conservative, some would have voted Liberal, and some wouldn't have voted at all.

  • seth

    1 year ago

    Doesn't cut it zalm

    Last federal election, exit polls showed that people who thought the environment was most important issue voted overwhelmingly Green ensuring that Harpo's fascists got to spend a few more years destroying Canada's environment.

    Since both the Liberals and NDP environment policy is similar to the Green party while Harper has none, few Green voters would be stupid enough to vote for the Cons.

    By and large the Green voter knows [DON'T BE A JERK, SETH. YOU'VE BEEN PART OF THESE THREADS TOO LONG TO CONTINUE WITH OFFENSIVE CHARACTERIZATIONS. STOP OR YOU WILL BE BLOCKED. -MODERATOR.] about policy and simply votes the Green brand name.

    Somebody who has some time on their hands needs download the election Canada results text file dump it in a spread sheet and tell us how many seats Lizzie May gave the fascist. Enough for a majority? - bet on it.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    seth

    Well, I'm not going to go digging up the conversation now, but it was here on Tyee that this was thoroughly discussed and found considerable agreement that Greens don't have a significant impact on vote splitting - unless all you need is one vote.

    "By and large the Green voter knows SFA about policy and simply votes the Green brand name"

    [ - insert party name here - ] voters know SFA about policy too - most voters simply vote the brand because that's how they've been raised.

    That's why I come here - you can't get this kind of discussion out on the street no matter who you stop.

  • cboo44

    1 year ago

    May did the work in Saanich and it paid off for her.

    The reality is that hundreds and hundreds of volunteers flooded the constituency, she virtually ignored the national election, concentrating on her riding, which was probably the most ideal one in Canada, certainly better than Central Nova. It's how one actually gets elected.
    The other reality is Greens lost 360,000 votes over 2008, nationally and only nine candidates even got their deposits back.
    If May is going to advance her party beyond that of just a shrill, sanctimonious voice in the wilderness, she will have to recreate herself as a hardworking, constructive MP and advocate for the citizens of Saanich. THAT job may not be always consistent with her professed principles.

  • jimorsheryl

    1 year ago

    May is just an Independent

    She won, one riding with a gargantuan effort and a huge pile of money.
    For what? Backbenchers accomplish nothing, an independent without a party, will accomplish far less.
    Oh, of course the press will love the novelty for a few months, but next election, she will be gone.

  • mopled

    1 year ago

    May's role? Just another obfuscator!

    She'll carry on about Canada not living up to Kyoto commitments while Harper spends money on fighter jets for the coming WW3 which she will support.

    "The Green party's Elizabeth May extolled Israel as "an exemplar of democracy" in the Middle East, while claiming violence in the region is fuelled by "petro-dollars to petro-dictators."
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/643445

    So,the woman who pushes the idea that 0.0385% of the trace gas CO2 in atmosphere with human contribution only 3% of that already miniscule amount, can change climate,

    also thinks Israel is "an exemplar of democracy."

    She's going to be right on side with Harper who made his position clear last fall.

    http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/murray-dobbin/2010/11/harper-israel-prime-minister-mentally-sound

    The more things change.....

  • G West

    1 year ago

    Israel and democracy

    Israel is a democratic country - a whole lot of other countries in the middle east aren't.

    That's simply a factual observation - and one doesn't have to agree with Israel's policies or its attitude toward the neighbours to make that comment...

    Besides, pulling partial quotes from a piece by Rosie Dimano at the Star about political pandering to the CJC is really meaningless.

    Especially when the other political leaders were also bumping over themselves to say similar nice things to potential voters.

    Boring.

    I don't think May will be onside with Harper and his ostrich approach to global warming.

  • mopled

    1 year ago

    Gee, West

    The fact that they all did just mean the Israel lobby is as powerful here as in the US. With less than 350,000 Jews in Canada, not all of whom are supporters of Israel, I don't think the politicos were pandering for votes.

    That you too can describe Israel as a "democracy" says a great deal. I suppose it is, in the old sense, as the slave keeping Greeks meant it.

    Ah, yes, the old "boring" put down, used when the topic is not to be discussed.

    Didn't you get the memo? "Global Warming" became "Climate Change" officially on CBC in January 2007 when it became clear it was cooling.

  • Francis

    1 year ago

    Tankers? Come what May

    Even though the Greens polled a pathetic 4% that could have been enough margin in many ridings to avoid a Conservative majority.

    Certainly tankers and pipelines will become part of our collective history and we need to remember what a naive political strategy costs.

  • YCSTS

    1 year ago

    Elizabeth May lackey of the New World Order?

    Mopled you should investigate the extraordinary correlation between the Green Party platform and the New World Order agenda.

    Much as the Greens proclaim they are a believers in local & decentralized gov't but their INTERNATIONAL party platform is a GUARANTEED way to create CENTRALIZED control of ALL governments. It is easy to make a list of mickey mouse positions that sound very democratic but when the central party platform abdicates control to supra-national organizations all controlled by the super-rich - you get a clear signal of what about the only TRULY INTERNATIONAL PARTY is all about.

    The Global Greens Manifesto - pretty scary:

    http://www.globalgreens.org/globalcharter_english

  • G West

    1 year ago

    That's Canadian politics

    I has bugger all to do with the 'truth' of what was being said about democracy in Israel.

    Whether you like it or not - Israel IS a healthy functioning democracy with a judiciary which isn't afraid to indict political leaders who go bad.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    jimorsheryl

    "For what? Backbenchers accomplish nothing, an independent without a party, will accomplish far less."

    Pretty funny to hear you say that, you Preston Manning supporter, you. Whyn't you go back and look at what ol' Presto started with? One seat, won in a byelection, by Deb Grey, arguably the dumbest thing one could have done as a voter in Beaver Creek. Talking about trading laryngitis for no voice at all!

    Of course, if you started looking at how history repeats itself, you might be tempted to extend the example you pour so much scorn on, and expect that in another 18 or so years, there'll be a Green Prime Minister with a majority....

    ......nah.... it'll never happen, right?

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    Israel

    { snigger} I may not like the way Israel conducts its affairs much - in fact not at all - but they've managed to do so since independence with a minority every single time!

    Wonder why nobody ever asked Harper why he thought he needed a majority to do what Israel could do with a minority? Couldn't be incompetence could it.....?

    That said, it's important to note that only about 20% of Arabs born in the state of israel are permitted to vote. The rest have been denied the vote, despite fulfilling the basic requirements of citizenship including military service for more than 60 years.

    That doesn't make Israel any less of a democracy, but it certianly makes it an infertile and disreputable one. But that was easy to see in any reading from Ha'aretz or JPost.

    Hmmmmm.... disreputable regimes are falling like dominos in the Middle East these days....and with Netan-yahoo yesterday calling impotently for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza to divorce from each other after 60 years of calling for them to get their act together and form a state, seems like the height of chutzpah, not to mention the act of a typical prosteh leit.

    Someday.... may there be true justice in the world...

  • mopled

    1 year ago

    Westie, have I got a website for you!

    http://theonlydemocracy.org/

    "This blog questions the very notion of Israel as “the only democracy” in the Middle East, and puts a spotlight on the intensifying struggle for human rights largely ignored by the mainstream media.

    We are Israeli, Palestinian and US-based human rights activists who work to preserve and expand democratic rights for all peoples in the region including Israelis, Palestinians, migrant workers and refugees. We believe that claiming that Israel is an “enlightened Western style democracy” is misleading. In fact, there is no true democracy within the Occupied Palestinian Territories and only limited and diminishing democracy within Israel.
    A Western style democracy means more than just one person, one vote. It means full equality of rights regardless of religion or ethnic origin, including the right to express dissent from government policies without fear of harassment, arrest, imprisonment or death.

    This is not the status quo in Israel – far from it. 3.5 million Palestinians live under a 42-year long Israeli occupation in the Palestinian Territories. Inside Israel, migrants, refugees, and Israelis of all backgrounds– including Jews–are increasingly suffering the ongoing erosion of human rights.

    This blog chronicles the struggles waged by people on the ground, everyday, as they seek to maintain and expand full civil and human rights for all people in the region, even as their lives are shaped, curtailed and directed by the unending Israeli-Palestinian conflict and especially the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territories.

    This blog is hosted by Jewish Voice for Peace. The content is provided by independent bloggers and each post represents only the position of the individual blogger. Content does not represent the positions of Jewish Voice for Peace or of any other blogger who contributes to the site."

  • G West

    1 year ago

    mopled

    Did you not read what I wrote?

    Whether you like it or not - Israel IS a healthy functioning democracy with a judiciary which isn't afraid to indict political leaders who go bad.

    Here's the latest example:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2009/08/30/israel-olmert.html

  • mopled

    1 year ago

    You didn't read far enough, West.

    You might not have used the reference about the upstanding Israeli judiciary if you had.

    It seems that Olmert just may have been charged to neutralize him.

    "The charges likely end the three-decade career of a man who just three years ago seemed poised to lead his nation to a bold withdrawal from the West Bank and an aggressive push for peace with the Palestinians."

    But we digress from the Greens and their hidden agenda.

    Thanks for the tip YCSTS. I've been reading this one, http://www.green-agenda.com/

  • G West

    1 year ago

    mopled, buddy, you've lost this battle, face it

    I could have posted another half dozen examples of the fact that Israel (with all its warts) is still a functioning democracy with an independent judiciary.

    It's irrelevant to this debate - just like your posts about conspiracies and false flag operations.

    What's really interesting this morning is the UN report that came out yesterday:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/world/04population.html?_r=1&ref=world

    10 billion souls by 2050!

    Turn that sow's ear into a silk purse.
    Please.

  • mikev

    1 year ago

    hi seth *8|

    i voted green. neeyah neeyah. surprised i didnt feel welcome in your open arms? see above. lots of my fellow green supporters did vote strategically, almost half of them, yet still the abuse piles up. so, less likely next time - green support is likely to increase, at least back to historic levels. since we get no thanks no matter what - see above.

    i suggest some kind of non compete - the ndp decline to run a candidate in some ridings where the green party has increased support. then some kind of deal where the green party declines to run candidates in some ridings where the ndp might actually win without the green split. may could have gotten in this way last time around, her 12,620 with the ndp 7,657 could have beaten the conservative 18,239. so maybe the ndp give up 5 or 6 ridings, to give the greens a chance at official party status, and the greens give up 20 or maybe even 30.

    i get the feeling from the tirades above that even this wouldnt be acceptable, the only possible final solution being the greens packing up and fading away. not going to happen. a coalition is the only realistic path to power for the left, without a hilarious ndp-liberal merger, and now the pq is castrated maybe going with the greens would be more palatable to canadians. help us to be your allies, instead of calling us your brain dead enemies. peace.

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