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EI Running out for 500,000 Unemployed Canadians
Stretch the program, urges labour, pointing to system's $55 billion surplus.
System is failing a 'stress test' says CLC
"It makes you mad," Alf Wilkins said. The long-serving mill worker from Mackenzie, B.C. was talking about the experience of being laid off early in 2008. The traumatic job loss came as his employer of 31 years, the Abitibi-Bowater mill in his home town, encountered financial trouble that put the insolvent firm under creditor protection.
"Nearly everybody in my family lost work then," said Wilkins. "It was hard. My daughter, son and brother all lost mill jobs. My wife was the only one working. I got EI but my claim was exhausted by January 2009. I was lucky because I got some part time work with the union, but a lot of people in this town had it tough. One of my buddies lost his house and all his savings. Another guy I know lost his home and had to move back in with his brother. For him, it was either eat or pay the mortgage."
At the worst point, Wilkins said, every second house in Mackenzie had been foreclosed. The unemployment rate in town is still above 50 per cent, even with a small re-opening at the Abitibi mill that has given new work to him and 59 others -- at a site where 700 worked in boom times.
Wilkins pointed out that even long-term employees like he and his friends had to wait from ten to 12 weeks before their Employment Insurance benefits kicked in, as they were required to spend any accumulated holiday pay before they could collect on the insurance they had been paying into for decades. He was interested to learn that a recently published paper by Andrew Jackson, national director of economic and social policy for the Canadian Labour Congress, says that the nightmare he and his co-workers experienced in Mackenzie is a preview of what is in store for hundreds of thousands of other Canadian workers this year.
Writing for the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives this January, Jackson described the current financial crisis as a "stress test" for the current Employment Insurance program, a stress test that the program is failing. With the number of unemployed Canadian workers not receiving EI up to 777,400 by October 2009, Jackson predicts that up to a half million workers will exhaust their claims during 2010. (Approximately two million new claims were made for EI in 2009.)
Jackson and other EI critics are worried that many of those 500,000 who exhaust their claims will be forced to lose their homes and savings, and some will be driven onto income assistance, in an economy where finding full time work is still very difficult.
According to the most recent figures available from Stats Canada, the nation's economy added 43,000 new jobs in January of this year, bringing the national unemployment rate down to 8.3 per cent. However, almost all of the new jobs were part time, with only 1,400 new full time jobs created across the country that month.
Reforms proposed by CLC
Jackson's paper echoes the policy change suggestions that have been heard before from his employer, the Canadian Labour Congress, and the union-friendly Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. The paper says the government should focus on job creation, but while the crisis continues, it should reform the EI system to make it a more effective safety net for workers who lose their jobs.
The program should, Jackson and his co-author Sylvain Schetagne argue, create a single national criteria for admission to the program of 360 hours of employment. That would be in contrast to the current, variable levels set across the country according to local unemployment levels, with the hours-worked eligibility test ranging from 420 to 700 hours.
Further, the EI "replacement rate" should be paid at 60 per cent of the best wages in 12 weeks of the qualifying period, not the current 55 per cent.
Finally, the authors call for a special 26-week emergency extension of benefits for all claims filed October 2008 through October 2010, with workers who have exhausted a claim eligible to resume the claim if they remain unemployed. The 26 week extension, they say, should incorporate the five-week extension already brought in this year by the government, as well as the already implemented extensions for "long term" workers.
This is not the first time that government critics have slammed the current incarnation of Employment Insurance. Last year in February, in the run up to that year's federal budget, CCPA economist Marc Lee told The Tyee:
"The bottom line is that our new EI system has not been tested by a recession since its inception. And there is good reason to believe that it is a shadow of its former self as an automatic stabilizer in a recession."
Critics point out that since the EI system was revamped in the 1990s, it has accumulated a national surplus of over $55 billion. Although the difference between what workers and employers pay into the system and what is paid out in benefits has skyrocketed, the surplus funds flow into general revenues and do not remain in the EI system.
Conservative measures so far
Over the past year, the Harper Conservatives have brought in some EI measures that worker advocates and government critics applaud. Jackson said that the government had made the right decision when it added five weeks of eligibility across the board and even longer extensions for workers with long histories of employment before their lay offs. He also praised an EI subsidized job sharing program that has kept 160,000 workers employed. Beyond those measures already taken, however, Jackson is pessimistic about the Conservatives enacting the rest of the reforms he believes are needed.
Certainly the Conservative base in big business and on the right of the political spectrum is not enthusiastic about strengthening the EI safety net. Niels Veldhuis, who writes on economic topics for the pro-business Fraser Institute mounts a vigorous argument against enriching or extending EI benefits in his July 2009 op-ed piece "A More Generous EI Program Will Increase Unemployment Permanently," which was published in the Halifax Chronicle Herald, the Penticton Herald, Calgary Herald, Winnipeg Free Press, the Montreal Gazette and Business in Vancouver.
Veldhuis contends that the figures cited by Jackson and other EI critics are inaccurate. Once workers who have left their jobs voluntarily, were self employed or who haven't worked in the previous year are subtracted from the numbers counted as unemployed, the percentage of eligible unemployed workers covered by EI payments go up to over 80 per cent, he says, citing a recent Toronto Dominion study.
More EI a 'moral hazard': Board of Trade's Rezak
But, setting aside for a moment squabbles about how many are unemployed, and about whether the rules of eligibility are wise or fair, surely there is a case to be made for richer benefits and longer entitlement during an economic downturn, many would say. Veldhuis disagrees. The Fraser Institute scholar opposes both longer entitlement periods and more robust payments for those unemployed workers who do qualify for EI.
"Andrew Jackson's proposals, while well intentioned, are not a good idea," Veldhuis told The Tyee. "We have good evidence that such changes lead to increased unemployment. Government studies show that people only start to look for work near the end of their EI entitlement."
Darcy Rezak, of the Vancouver Board of Trade, expressed similar concerns to The Tyee last year.
"Improved insurance always carries with it a moral hazard," he said. "We could see more unemployment because the richer benefits would make some people choose to stay on EI instead of moving to where work is available or taking lower paying jobs."
And the federal minister responsible for EI, Diane Finley, was widely quoted last year to the effect that better EI payments were undesirable because they encouraged dependency.
"We do not want to make it lucrative for them to stay home and get paid for it,” she said in January 2009, according to media reports.
'I came to work'
Alf Wilkins, the veteran mill worker who lost his job in Mackenzie after 31 years, is unimpressed with the minister's statement.
"That really made me mad," he told The Tyee. "We came up here 150 miles north of Prince George to work, not to draw EI. The minister and all the rest of the politicians will keep drawing their wages during prorogation. Why is it okay for them and not for me? I worked for 31 years and paid my taxes and premiums."
Wilkins said he expected that Stand Up for the North, a campaign he was working on, would be sponsoring rallies soon to press for EI reforms that would look a lot like the changes proposed in Jackson's paper.
"At the worst up here, we had nearly 95 per cent unemployment in the woods industry. Easy access to EI is very important. We shouldn't have to eat up our holiday pay while EI is delayed. It's just unfair. Other countries treat the unemployed better than Canada does."
Research published last June by Dalhousie economics professor Lars Osberg substantiates Wilkins' complaint about how Canada's EI system compares with those in other developed countries.
According to Osberg, Canadian income replacement for EI recipients compares unfavourably with most other member nations of the OECD. And changes in the Canadian system since the mid-'90s have serious consequences. The pro-business reforms to EI mean that in 2009, when unemployment levels in Canada were at the same level they were in 1990, the B/U ratio (the percentage of those unemployed who qualify for EI) had been cut in half. So even if convinced by the Fraser Institute and TD in the papers cited above that the B/U can present an inflated sense of EI coverage shortfalls, a careful reader would have to think that the changes of the last two decades have left EI less able to support workers during a downturn than in 1990.
Even the Toronto Dominion Economics research cited above agrees that some of the changes made in the 1990s need to be revisited in the name of fairness. They argue that the wide regional variability of time-worked criteria for receiving EI should be flattened, and suggest that reducing the minimum number of hours worked required to qualify for benefits to 420 hours or even to the CLC/CCPA-favored 360 hours might be desirable.
The Tyee asked for comment on Jackson's criticism of the current EI regime from the offices of federal Minister of Finance Jim Flaherty and Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development Diane Finley, who administers the EI system. Flaherty's office declined to comment and passed our questions on to Minister Finley's office. A media spokesperson at HRSDC replied by email on Minister Finley's behalf.
In response to questions about the estimate that a half million workers could exhaust EI in 2010, the minister's media office wrote:
"Over the past ten years, between 28 and 32 per cent of EI regular claimants exhausted their benefit entitlements. While we do not have definitive data on the current proportion of EI regular claimants who are exhaustees, we do know that the number of exhaustees has been increasing in line with the volume of claimants. We are working with Statistics Canada on an approach to making reliable data publicly available."
While citing some steps taken in 2009 to address increased unemployment, including the modest extension of EI benefits for workers who qualify and the job sharing program that Andrew Jackson praised in his interview with The Tyee, the HRSDC media spokesperson did not answer questions about what steps, if any, the government would take to address the ongoing crisis in its next budget.
The Tyee asked Minister Finley about the more than $55 billion dollars in surplus accumulated by the EI fund since changes made in the mid-'90s restricted access to the program and reduced replacement rates. Many observers, including at least one Parliamentary committee, have argued that the notional surplus (EI premiums currently flow into general revenue) should, as a moral obligation, be used to extend benefits. The minister's office responded:
"The EI Account is not an account containing cash. It is an accounting method that keeps track of premiums and benefits. Since 1986, the EI Account has been consolidated in the Summary Financial Statements of Canada, on the recommendation of the then Auditor General of Canada. Revenues under the EI Act are credited to the Account and deposited in the government's Consolidated Revenue Fund (CRF). Similarly, program costs are charged to the Account and paid out of the CRF. The Government of Canada is delivering on its commitment to improve the governance and management of EI financing by establishing the independent Canada Employment Insurance Financing Board (CEIFB). The CEIFB will be responsible for managing a new bank account separate from the Government's general revenues, where any excess EI revenues from a given year will be held and invested until they are used to reduce premium rates in subsequent years. The CEIFB will also be responsible for implementing a new EI premium rate-setting mechanism and setting the EI premium rate for 2011 and beyond." ![]()




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Van Isle
2 years ago
Heard again this morning
Heard again this morning that the Canadian economy is going to get better according to Flaherty. So, with this information and prophesis by our political masters one should expect that they will carry on as they've done before; nothing. Harper, Flaherty, Campbell, and Hansen have been completly wrong from the get go. They didn't see the economic melt down happening and then when it did, they were in denial. Certain people did see the inevitable melt down, warned about it, but were ignored and/or trashed talked by the financial gurus of the day. My prediction about our financial future; we've seen nothing yet, just wait a year and hang on to your hat cuz it's going to be one hell of a wild ride down.
realisticman
2 years ago
Didn't see it coming!
Talk about all the missed calculations. In the article above the Dalhousie economics professor Lars Osberg wrote the study linked to at the CCPA site. Well, they missed it too. What? They missed the recovery. Six months ago they estimated the unemployment rate for 2010 and they were over 20% out! The unemployment figures for January were published last week by Statistics Canada and they showed BC at 8.1%. Six months ago the study cited said it would be 10.5%.
Nobody on either side or anywhere has a certain idea of where the economy is going and the CCPA had no idea where employment levels were going.
Van Isle
2 years ago
Mr. Realisticman, in
Mr. Realisticman, in response to your statement; if nobody has a certain idea of where the economy is going, why in thundering jesus does Flaherty make statements that all is well? Canadians have been putting too much faith in what our political talking-heads have been blathering in the last 2 years. Guess what? Canadians are more in debt now than they were 2 years ago. Want to have an easy read? Try Feb. 8th, 2010 MacLeans as one of many for which way we're going.
realisticman
2 years ago
GDP is going ....... UP
Globe and Mail
" Last updated on Saturday, Jan. 30, 2010
Canada's economy expanded for a third straight month in November, as mining, energy and wholesale trade helped pull the country further out of recession.
The 0.4-per-cent growth in the month, reported Friday by Statistics Canada, was more than economists expected. The federal statistics gathering agency also revised October's growth figure up to 0.3 per cent, from the initially reported 0.2 pert cent. September's reading was also revised up a tenth of a percentage point.
November's data indicates the economy – which grew just 0.4 per cent in the third quarter – is on track to meet or exceed the Bank of Canada's 3.3 per cent growth estimate for the final three months of 2009, economists said.
“It's certainly an indication that the economy picked up a lot of steam in the last quarter,” said Millan Mulraine, an economics strategist at TD Securities in Toronto. “We didn't see it coming; we never thought it would be at this level so early."."
Guess what, because facts are more trustworthy than estimates.
Skywalker
2 years ago
But we have the Olympics.
I'm with Alf Wilkins on this one. There are always the political nuts who talk about not making staying on EI better than working. This is insulting to the vast majority who would prefer to go to work every day and all the cultural benefits that normal living entails. Flaherty doesn't know what he is talking about. Instead of picking an choosing some figures that suit his agenda maybe he should look at the reality. Canadians would be better off. THe idea that a federal politician with such a lucrative benefit package and pension should preach to those struggling about making EI too easy is repugnant.
Frank
2 years ago
r'man
Do your unemployment figures count people who have given up looking for work and run out of EI?
Nope, they don't.
realisticman
2 years ago
Learn a new trade
My heart goes out to Alf Wilkins and to his family but in this world one has to take care of oneself after the social system resources are used up. Study and learn new capabilities. Logging and mill-work is only going to become more automated anyway. We don't wash clothes by hand anymore and we don't dig trenches with shovels either. Machines are safer and less expensive too. Anyway, we can't force buyers to by our wood and other markets than the USA take time to mature. When I read above, "...the Canadian Labour Congress, and the union-friendly Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. The paper says the government should focus on job creation, ..." Well, after the huge outpouring of complaints over government spending on the Canada Line and the highway to Whistler, as well as the Gateway project, one can expect that governments will reduce job creating projects like these; particularly if the NDP get back in because they complain about all of it. The best hope is to continue to support federal stimulus spending and continue to support BC infrastructure spending because this will only help in creating more and more jobs.
realisticman
2 years ago
Frank
They do include the new immigrants that come to Canada to the tune of 250,000 per year and they do include the new teenagers that have just entered the workforce and still - the numbers are down.
Are you only happy when the numbers go up?
Van Isle
2 years ago
Mr. Realisticman, do you
Mr. Realisticman, do you know that half of the immigrants who come here leave within a year. A lot of them use a stepping stone to get into the US.
Frank
2 years ago
r'man
Do you care about the integrity of the numbers at all or do you only care if they go down?
I ask because you never post when they go up.
Also, they do not include all the new immigrants nor all the teenagers that have left high school.
They also do not include most people on welfare nor the so-called "long term unemployed".
You are celebrating when in fact 323,000 fewer Canadians have jobs today than in October 2008. And when you add all the students that have left high school and all the new immigrants since that time that's a serious job shortfall.
But because the unemployment rate lacks what I call integrity it doesn't reflect those facts.
But I know you don't care about that so carry on.
Van Isle
2 years ago
Ooops, sorry
My last sentence should have read; "A lot of them us Canada as a stepping stone to get into the US>
mikev
2 years ago
shocking insensitivity
"Government studies show that people only start to look for work near the end of their EI entitlement." "the richer benefits would make some people choose to stay on EI instead of moving to where work is available or taking lower paying jobs." "We do not want to make it lucrative for them to stay home and get paid for it"
Excuse me while I retch.
I'm sure people are very happy living with 55% of their previous wages (or much less than that if they were over the cap).
I'm sure the reason why people don't declare bankruptcy to abandon their unsellable house in their destroyed hurtland community and move their families to where all the *PART* *TIME* jobs are being created in the rat nest crime infested prohibitively expensive city is entirely because they are just plain lazy.
The sources of all 3 of those quotes should be forced to spend 3 years on welfare (remember the 2 year limit) for their ignorance.
realisticman: "GDP is up, so why worry?" And bank profits are at record levels yet again. Economic indicators indicate that the indications of the economy are just fucking rosy. Very comforting.
Look at real income, and look at income inequality. Look at consumer debt load. Look at bankruptcies. Look at mortgage foreclosures. The revolution is in the details.
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
Armageddon
C'mon, get serious. Though the working class is really the wellspring source of all bailouts, including those which largely go without question to the "rugged individualist", get out of our face with your State Regulations free enterprise spirit of the corporate sector, you really don't expect that this makes the working class worthy of help when it is in trouble, do ya? In all seriousness.
The rule of thumb is, capitalism for the omega working class, with socialism and its safety nets only going to the alpha ruling and beta managerial classes.
Which is as God, who resides in the Temple of The Banks and Corporate Boardrooms, intended it, oh ye of little faith and cash.
Quit yer friggin' whining ye unwashed masses, and get back to work. Otherwise, we'll have to "regulate" you into a minimum wage job. How do you expect capitalism to function and survive, and the entrepreneurial spirit to flourish in the land, if you don't bail it out everytime it flops on its face, which is at leas one major event per generation? And a number of more minor others.
Were Capitalism ever to cease to be, all time and human civilization would certainly collapse in on itself.
Suck it up. (Oops, you're already doing that. Down here. Over a little bit.)
realisticman
2 years ago
"Planet Earth is in traumatic turmoil."
Yeah, right!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/humanitys-rise-from-poverty-slays-the-naysayers/article1465567/
Parametric Estimations of the World Distribution of Income
Maxim Pinkovskiy, Xavier Sala-i-Martin
NBER Working Paper No. 15433*
Issued in October 2009
"We use a parametric method to estimate the income distribution for 191 countries between 1970 and 2006. We estimate the World Distribution of Income and estimate poverty rates, poverty counts and various measures of income inequality and welfare. Using the official $1/day line, we estimate that world poverty rates have fallen by 80% from 0.268 in 1970 to 0.054 in 2006. The corresponding total number of poor has fallen from 403 million in 1970 to 152 million in 2006. Our estimates of the global poverty count in 2006 are much smaller than found by other researchers. We also find similar reductions in poverty if we use other poverty lines. We find that various measures of global inequality have declined substantially and measures of global welfare increased by somewhere between 128% and 145%. ..."
Frank
2 years ago
realisticman
This article is about Canada and its unemployed...
Anyway, your declaration that people living on more than a $1 a day isn't poverty was hashed over on the Tyee a few years ago.
Who would argue that anyone living on less than $2 a day or $3 a day wasn't living in abject poverty? Not many.
Inequality has risen.
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
You know...
Fuck the stats. You know.
Realisticamn is unrealistic. Let the statisticians eat their own doo doo.
Draw the appropriate conclusions.
Arise, wretched of the earth
Arise, convicts of hunger
Reason thunders in its crater
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean
Enslaved masses, arise, arise
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
anarcho
2 years ago
Don't Trust Em!
The political assholes babbling about the recession being over are also the same ones who told us it wouldn't happen in the first place. These are also the people that covered up the whole criminal Ponzi scheme that the economy has become.
MacKenna
2 years ago
It's always rightwing welfare wingnuts...
like the idiots who work for the Fraser Institute, which has little credibility, or Fox News equivalent media outlets like the National Post, who crap on working people who periodically need EI.
Living on EI is no picnic, particularly if you have a family to support and bills to pay. Maybe if you're a kid still living at home, you can manage.
These same wingnuts freak if you mention raising the minimum wage, but never have a bad thing to say about CEOs taking home 500 times what the average income earner does. Oh, it's ok for an oil executive or a bank president to rake in millions in salary and bonuses, but heaven help some working stiff if he has the audacity to want $20 an hour to clean hospital operating rooms.
greengreen
2 years ago
Moratorium
How about a 5-year moratorium on bank foreclosures on mortgages?To be extended if needed. I know this would curtail the market for the vultures (banks, developers etc.) who are eager to profit from this downturn in the economy, but isn't it time the tables were turned?
RickW
2 years ago
Van Isle
Good question! Especially when both he and Harper have "warned" us that an austerity budget is forthcoming. I guess he means that all is well for the bankers, the CEOs and the politicians. You know....the ones who do the REAL work in this country. You know.....the ones who the realistic men look up to (aka fawn over).
MGS
2 years ago
Jobs
Our jobs still exist except now they exist south of the border. We used to just give away the resources but now we give away the few jobs that used to be tied to those resources.There seems to be low unemployment in the urban areas but this will change when the olympics is finished. These areas are whats keeping Gordo in power. Are they in for a surprise. The Americans gave thier jobs to China and now we are giving ours to America. See a pattern here?
realisticman
2 years ago
Foreign Invetsors Flock to Canda
This is why:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/foreign-investors-flock-to-canada/article1465561/
Van Isle
2 years ago
Ho boy, what a bunch of
Ho boy, what a bunch of crap. 1) about 98% of foreign investment that comes into Canada is to purchase Canadian companies. Don't believe me, well then talk to Mel Hurtig; he'll set you straight on that topic. 2) Now here's another ponsi scheme. Next year the good ol USA Government has to borrow 40% of what they're going to spend. Guess what? They still have a AAA rating. So much for credibility with S & P's rating system in any country.
realisticman
2 years ago
Van Isle
I guess you didn't read to the bottom and see the table showing that Canada's net debt is the lowest of all measured except for Australia. Over the past 12 months, investors have purchased a net $65 billion of Canadian bonds. That means that financing costs stay low in Canada which is good for the country, the provinces and even the municipality you live in - as well as for whomever you work for, your business or you.
Frank
2 years ago
Van Isle
Remember this is from the same person who was over the moon about Canada having 300,000 less jobs than 2 years ago.
SCR
2 years ago
Subsidized Tanks
I was intrigued by your review of EI and the need to raise its effectiveness.
For example, 500,000 folks drawing full benefit at $20,000 per year, utilizes 10 billion from the 55 billion surplus. That money goes immediately back into the economy. Who can save on EI ?
That leaves another 4 years to improve EI and get it right.
That will give business the time they need to repair the economy and the government to trace malefactors.
I doubt people will wait that long. Everybody wants to get on with life.
If EI covered college and university courses, then retrained workers would be contributing to the economy in higher categories, the way of the future.
Why indebt students to banks when they might draw EI from summer employment ? Bank profits are high enough. And banks are reducing their staffs, effectively undermining their bulletins on the economy.
Would that flood the market for qualified openings ? Possibly, but in a business economy waiting for new concepts, they’re more likely to create enterprises.
Certainly they would bring real experience to the board of trade, Fraser and the TD. These subsidized asylums didn’t support their claims. Two respondents projected their own values of cheating and lying onto others. Proof that working in confined spaces is hazardous for consciousness.
Oh but every qualification they ever needed was handed in their right grade school.
Preserve us from idiots who want to experiment with our lives and well being. If they’re not willing to test it on themselves alone, someone needs to tell them to pull out of the comment pool.
Otherwise your report covered clever proposals made in good faith.
They should go further.
janelleha
2 years ago
plight of the self-employed
While the plight of those who lose their jobs and go on EI can be distressing, there are many many people that will never qualify for EI because they are self-employed. I am among them. There is no safety net for us. My sister can go on EI for almost a year, yet when work slows down for me, I have to hope and pray it doesn't get more desperate. Add in being a single mother, with no partner, and no child support payments, and things become even more precarious.
The news of a new EI system that self-empoyed individuals can pay into, but has different qualifying rules doesn't make me hopeful.
Where are the articles about self-employed individuals - a number that has been growing due to the increase in contracting out rather than hiring?
ASKBiblitz.com
2 years ago
Redistribute subsidies to workers from aboriginals
Alas, workers are discovering that the public treasury does have limits. It's time to end all those endless subsidies that go exclusively to people who contribute nothing to the kitty. Here's a plan:
It's time now to implement a two-stage cut-off to this endless drain on public resources:
1. First, issue a deadline for the settlement of any outstanding land claims after which only those of us who contribute to the public treasury may compete for programs and subsidies available equally to all qualified applicants, and
2. Resolve never, ever again to create, subsidize or participate in any program or service intended exclusively to benefit aboriginals. We can't afford the inevitable lawsuits when a recipient/beneficiary is somehow disappointed or injured, and it's clear Canada is incompetent to run any such program effectively. Let's stop trying.
In my view, the residential school settlements, which have already pretty much taken out organized religion in Canada, must signal the end of a miserable relationship of enforced dependance created by an ancient document, the Royal Proclamation of 1763, whose drafters could not possibly have contemplated the obligations it's created for successive generations of taxpayers. Surely there was an expectation that after a reasonable period of war reparations, recipients would become self-sufficient as settlers did or did not, as the case may be. Nowhere in history have conquerors assumed such massive obligations for an indefinite period.