You got it Saline

Chavez is behind it all. LOL

Saline Canine

I take it you're a big fan of our own "salty dog" aka the PowellRiverPersuader?

...speeches and long winded commentary

... don't matter when ya got a giant lump of turd sitting in the room that reeks to the high heavens. Spraying perfume bottles filled with urine only makes it smell worse.

Those who don’t shovel turds for a living haven’t built up a tolerance thus can only muse with clenched noses.

soleprobe

Delicately put.

Here's a classic example of that:

Copenhagen. Dec.17.2009

"The anti-capitalist theme was picked up on by Mr Mugabe, Zimbabwe's veteran President, who is the target of Western sanctions over alleged human rights abuses.

"When these capitalist gods of carbon burp and belch their dangerous emissions, it's we, the lesser mortals of the developing sphere who gasp and sink and eventually die."

The 85-year-old said industrialised countries in the northern hemisphere which bore historical responsibility for global warming showed none of the zeal for punishing 'eco-offenders' that they did for abusers of human rights.

"Why is the guilty north not showing the same fundamentalist spirit it exhibits in our developing countries on human rights matters on this more menacing threat of climate change?" he said."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/17/2774069.htm?section=world

The depth of a saucer of water...

Derision and mockery, name calling and denial do not a credible analysis make. Nor do the throw away one liners of abuse, designed mostly to attempt to intimidate the uncertain.

What is most graphically displayed here, by the neoconazi wrecking crew, is their own baffle-gab, attempts to deflect and obfuscate. I do not suggest that you new readers to Tyee just pass over these defenders of the status quo at all. Read them closely. They reveal much of themselves, their anti-human world view and moral code, in ways that they obviously don't even realize themselves, or they would at least attempt different, more cloaked and intelligent attempts at analyis... to the degree one call call their views that. Which is not much.

But study them closely. They deserve at least as much of an attempt at understanding them as we give the dinosaurs or viruses. Some of you of their selfish and greed driven bent may be impressed, but most will see through their scarcely guised mean spirited selves, and see the empty, self serving natures at their core.

Draw your own conclusions.

"... giant lump(s) of turd..." , "...Do these people realize how crazy they look..." and "Enough hot air to heat a million homes.", indeed. The depth of their analysis, about that of a saucer of water, is insightful... if only more of themselves than the objects of their derision.

They are not going to be persuaded to greater concern for nature or their fellow humans. They see themselves as part of the dominant class status quo, though most are probably peons themselves.It is why they and the class that pull the strings attached to their limbs must be defeated. Period.

R/man

Sure Mugabe is an ass. Strangely what he says about the contradiction between the concern about human rights as opposed to climate change has a clear ring of truth. If the developed countries puff themselves up on one isssue expect some despot to poke a hole into their puffery.

"...like the neoconazis here on Tyee..."

"...mockery, name calling...do not a credible analysis make..."

"The depth" of the hypocricy.

Why China won't play unless paid to

"Academics in China are debating whether global warming could benefit rather than harm the country, with some historical climatologists believing the country did better during warmer periods.

They point to studies that show a drop in temperature and desertification accelerated the Mongol invasions of the 13th century.

"With the cold temperatures there was a drought in Mongolia. Since people were eating livestock, which fed on the grasslands, they needed to go south," Xie Zhenghui of the Chinese Academy of Sciences' International Center for Climate & Environmental Sciences told the Los Angeles Times.

"When there was warmer weather and more rain, the Mongols didn't need to attack the south."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=2355025

"One reason why the EU's aid offer was rejected out of hand is that the UN and G-77 are demanding $11-billion or more each year beginning immediately, jumping to between $100-billion and $200-billion annually by 2020.

In their analysis of this plan, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation has calculated the burden on each Canadian household at $3,000 a year, a burden we suspect few Canadians would welcome just to assuage their climate consciences. (Last week, anti-war activists were scandalized to learn that Canadian military spending works out to $75 per taxpayer per month. What is being discussed at Copenhagen is four times as much--and with absolutely no way of determining whether it has any impact on rising global temperatures.)
http://www.nationalpost.com/most-popular/story.html?id=2349715&p=2

More money needed here.

"AMY GOODMAN: We turn to the best-selling author of the “Shock Doctrine.” Yes, independent journalist Naomi Klein joining us from Toronto, Canada to talk about the latest shocks to the economy and with the climate summit in Copenhagen just two weeks away, the coming together of a global movement for climate justice. And her latest articles include “Climate Rage,” for Rolling Stone Magazine, and “Copenhagen, Seattle Grows Up,” for The Nation. Naomi Klein, Welcome to “Democracy Now!” Let’s begin with the issue of climate change and as you put it, climate rage. Tell us what is happening.

NAOMI KLEIN: That piece in Rolling Stone is looking at a growing demand for the repayment of climate debt. This is really a relatively new framing for the climate crisis and is becoming predominantly from the developing world, led by the government of Bolivia and other Latin American governments, and it has been joined by the coalition of least developed countries which are primarily in Africa. And essentially what they’re saying is that the climate crisis as we know was created in the industrialized world. There is a direct correlation between industrialization (what we call development) and carbon emissions. In fact, 75% of the historical carbon emissions have been produced by only 20% of the world’s population. Then we have this cruel geographical irony, which is that the effects of climate change our felt overwhelmingly in the developing world, and the parts of the world that are least responsible for creating the crisis. According to the World Bank, 75-80 of the effects of climate change are being felt in the developing world. So, you have this inverse relationship between cause and effect.

-cont;

It is in this context that we see a growing movement from the developing countries that really are on the front lines of climate change, saying that the rich world that created the climate crisis owes them a debt, owes them a tangible reparations for the creation of this crisis. And those reparations should be paid in three forms. First through deep emissions cuts in the developed world, in the rich world. At least 40% below 1990 levels- this is a figure we have heard a lot. In addition to this, they are saying the rich world, the G-8 countries, the industrialized countries, should pay for the costs, the huge costs, that poor countries face in adapting to climate change. In addition to that, they’re also saying that they would like to leapfrog over the dirty energies, the fossil fuels that are fueling the climate crisis. But they point out that this is expensive and more expensive to shift to cleaner green technology than it is to develop with cheap, dirty fuels, which is the way we did in the rich world. So, they are saying we will change, but we don’t think we should have to pay this additional cost because of our problem that is not of our creation. Essentially the climate debt arguments is the “polluter pays” argument, which is a familiar argument to people in the United States, its a basic principle of jurisprudence. Another way of putting this is “you broke it, you bought it”.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/23/naomi_klein_on_climate_debt_why

climategate

--16,500 delegates and reporters, 152 world leaders, and approximately 150,000 protestors, celebrities and other climate clingers have dieseled in on jets from all over the world to ride in limousines, scarf scallops and caviar, and preach to the rest of us working stiffs about wasting energy and eating too much meat.

soleprobing himself...

I have no objection to being called a "communist" or "comrade" by neoconazis at all. It is at least "relatively" accurate. Likewise "Neoconazi" is a generally accurate description of the New Conservatives, totally unlike the old Pregressive Conservatives in this country, who with their authoritarian, "corpratist state" tendencies, link themselves back to the Nazis.

I suggest it is a "scientifically accurate" label to attach to this retrogressive, back to the past political tendency within current "decline capitalism".

"in searching for a new enemy to unite us..."

“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”

The First Global Revolution (1991) published by the Club of Rome

20 years prior:

“In 1972, the Club of Rome, along with an MIT team, released a report called Limits to Growth. The report stated that we were to reach an environmental holocaust by the year 2000, due to overpopulation and other environmental problems. Support for their conclusions was gathered by results from a computer model. Aurelio Peccei, one of the founders of the Club of Rome, later confessed that the computer program had been written to give the desired results.”

http://www.conspiracy-times.com/content/view/194/50/

Reparations

Naomi Klein also getting a lot of milage over this whole climate change thing. She is calling the world's treatment of Tuvulu "genocide."

She also made some interesting comments on First Naions issues, telling " . . . a little story about what we’re up against in terms of reparations. () The other people, of course, who are owed reparations in the Global North are First Nations people, or indigenous people, whose land has been stolen. () I was in New York for protests against the Republican convention . . . and a couple of First Nations activists from Canada were also in town for those protests . . . we went on a side mission to Moody’s. Moody’s is, as you know, a credit agency. It gives countries their credit ratings. And I was with the very powerful First Nations spokesperson for the Haida, named Gujao, and Arthur Manuel, who is a former chief for the Nuu-chah-nulth First Nation in British Columbia. And Arthur had decided that one way to get Canada to acknowledge the debts that it owed to First Nations people was to meet with the credit agencies that give Canada its triple-A credit rating, which is the highest possible credit rating, and explain to Moody’s that actually Canada carries a huge unpaid debt in the form of the lands that it stole, without treaties, from First Nations peoples. So Arthur managed to get a meeting between him and Gujao—and they let me tag along—with the person at Moody’s who issues Canada’s credit rating. So we went on up to like the thirty-fifth floor, and we got the meeting with this guy and one of his colleagues, who was from Argentina and fell asleep in the meeting.
But what was interesting—so Arthur and Gujao presented all the documents, the writs, the legal rulings by the Supreme Court of Canada, that proved their case that this land was stolen and that they were owed billions in unpaid—in unpaid debts. And they said, “Canada is not a great place to do investment, because what if we called in these debts?” And it was very interesting, because the guy from Moody’s nodded, and he said, “You’re right. We’ve been following these court rulings, but we have decided that you are not going to collect on these debts. So it is not affecting our credit rating.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/11/klein

The Global North? Do you think she means Canada. Do you think she has any idea the court rulings only have application in BC because of the treaty situation.

Reparations cont.

I am also beginning to wonder how soon it will be that the "red diaper" babies start paying up for the role their parents and grandparents played in supporting the Communist Holocaust in Russia. There is mucho billions of dollars owed there too. How about we make you responsible Naomi?

And have you heard the latest? A coaltion of Indian Day School "survivors" are launching a $15 billion class action lawsuit against the taxpayers of this country for educating them.

What's next? A lawsuit for providing free medical care on the grounds that it alienated them from traditional medicine?

We want your money!

Rumour has it that there are surviving Arawaks in South America that are bringing a law suit against Spain for financing Christopher Columbus. They want quadrillions for the colonization of the Americas. Others, like the Mayans are 'interested observers' and are looking for just a few trillion. Spain is disowning Columbus, saying he was just an Italian sailor on an adventure and was never actually told to plunder or set up shop. Besides, he sailed from Andalusia, which is an autonomous region and they should go and see them.

There's also talk of some Brits bringing a suit against France for the Norman Invasion. France denies any responsibility correctly pointing out that at the time Normandy was heavily settled by Vikings.

Which brings us to Leif Ericson, another Norseman, who actually arrived in America before Columbus at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland.

The lawyers are on it.

related to climategate and Gore

By Christopher Booker and Richard North, UK Telegraph

No one in the world exercised more influence on the events leading up to the Copenhagen conference on global warming than Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and mastermind of its latest report in 2007.

Although Dr Pachauri is often presented as a scientist (he was even once described by the BBC as “the world�s top climate scientist"), as a former railway engineer with a PhD in economics he has no qualifications in climate science at all.

What has also almost entirely escaped attention, however, is how Dr Pachauri has established an astonishing worldwide portfolio of business interests with bodies which have been investing billions of dollars in organisations dependent on the IPCC’s policy recommendations.

These outfits include banks, oil and energy companies and investment funds heavily involved in ‘carbon trading’ and ‘sustainable technologies’, which together make up the fastest-growing commodity market in the world, estimated soon to be worth trillions of dollars a year.

related to climategate and Gore part 2

There is much more, go to the post

Today, in addition to his role as chairman of the IPCC, Dr Pachauri occupies more than a score of such posts, acting as director or adviser to many of the bodies which play a leading role in what has become known as the international ‘climate industry’. It is remarkable how only very recently has the staggering scale of Dr Pachauri’s links to so many of these concerns come to light, inevitably raising questions as to how the world’s leading ‘climate official’ can also be personally involved in so many organisations which stand to benefit from the IPCC’s recommendations.

Chavez, hello!

Chavez is quoted as saying, "If the climate were a bank, they'd already have saved it."

I wonder who he thinks 'they' are, being that he is a world leader.

So far this year 140 banks have failed in the US. 'They' didn't save them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932009_bank_failures_in_the_United_States

Don't forget Iceland.

Chavez may well be wondering if some of his own Venezuelan banks will be failing soon too. Venezuela's debt is teetering.

http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/12/15/en_eco_esp_venezuelas-debt-bec_15A3195135.shtml

All this joy of being the self-described number 1 risk in the world after contributing to the well being of the planet this year with a generous 839 million barrels of oil pumped. Good old Venezuela, pumping 2.3 million of barrels a day, equivalent value @ $70 bbl, $161 million PER DAY.

Somehow, with all this wealth the Chavez revolution still keeps the people at 84 in the world list of of GDP per capita, just below Botwana.

How's the windmill business going Hugo?

R/man

You really are grasping at straws. Chavez was pointing to the inconsistency of a particular focus of the U.S. and the developed world and he has every right to poke holes in the blowhards that cry about climate change while they make profits easier for oil companies. Chavez will always be able to sell oil even if it is less after action is taken because the only solution ever proposed is to put up the price of it to consumers.

Why in your perpetual pompous pronouncements would you expect Venezuela to stop producing oil when no other participant at the summit is volunteering to do the same? What does that have to do with his profound observation about bank bailouts not to mention million dollar bonuses for the CEO's dismal performances?

If this is a shot at Chavez because he is not a pure capitalist like you then I have news for you....you missed...by a mile>

Walkersky

You should'a been there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNQqUACJ_Kw&feature=player_embedded

Marxist Meltdown

Was Naomi there?

Oh Yes

Naomi was there, using all the right buzz words to rally the troops: slavery, reparations, direct-action, oppression, north/south, fighting against the market, disaster capitalism, last chance to save the earth, labor, globalization, etc.

Not only is she calling for world socialism she also wants a minimum of $600 billion.

Search YouTube, Naomi Klein Copenhagen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-lQ4TIdqA
& etc.

Three cheers Copenhagen is dead

Global warming - wait don't call it that, call it climate change that way we have both directions covered. Or is stagnation the goal. Politians even when there is a clear cut goal have a hard time, what do you expect when the issue is so flimsy. Sorry to put rain on the parade but all this is about is money. Those foundations need your money so they need a cause that no matter what they do, they don't have to produce any results. And the chinese government loves this, close factories in developed countries where there is pollution control and move the manufacturing to China, where no pollution is created since it is not recorded.
So as you say I am full of it, take a look at the labels on the cloths your wearing. Then take off everything that is not made in your own country, you might want more gobal warming at this point.

I wonder...

If carbon is demonstrated to be our friend and that global warming is a natural process, if.....

Campbell will have the decency to return the 2.1 billion dollars he is collecting from a carbon gas tax to the citizens of BC.

Somehow, I doubt it.

Saline Canine

He has returned it, don't doubt it, it's the law.

By law, government must show how all of the carbon tax revenue flows back to individuals and businesses as tax reductions. (B.C. Government Ministry of Finance Internet site)