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Province Wants to Sell Surgeries to Saskatchewan

Parties spar over whether the plan will allow BCers to get operations faster.

By Andrew MacLeod, 29 Oct 2009, TheTyee.ca

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People from Saskatchewan may soon be coming to British Columbia for surgery, if negotiations between the two provincial governments are successful.

B.C.'s health minister, Kevin Falcon, said selling surgeries will bring money into B.C.'s system and help British Columbians get care sooner. But New Democratic Party health critic, Adrian Dix, said the plan makes no sense when health authorities are already cancelling surgeries for British Columbians.

"We'd obviously have to do the homework on how we would do it," said Falcon. "The principle would be that we'd charge a premium for the service that would allow us to not only cover our costs but use the additional revenues to then allow British Columbians to get their procedures done sooner and quicker." The Tyee reported Monday on the plan, after the Canadian Press reported that Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall mentioned it. "If people have been waiting for 15 months, do they care if [their surgery] happens in Saskatoon, Regina or Surrey? I'm not sure they do," the story quoted Wall saying.

Close to an agreement

Discussions are in "early stages," Falcon said, but added the two provinces are close to signing a memorandum of understanding that would have 400 orthopaedic surgeries done for people from Saskatchewan in British Columbia's public hospitals over two years.

He identified the UBC Centre for Surgical Innovation and St. Paul's Hospital as places which could likely be used for the plan.

During question period Wednesday Falcon said Saskatchewan is just one of the provinces that have turned to B.C. for help reducing surgery wait lists.

Asked in the legislature hallway about the comment, Falcon said, "I don't want to speculate on other jurisdictions except to know we've had lots of interest in what we've been doing on the surgical innovation side in British Columbia."

Waiting for surgery in BC

The move comes while health authorities are cutting the number of surgeries they provide, said NDP critic Dix.

The Fraser Health Authority has said it will cut as many as 9,900 surgeries because of budget constraints and the Interior Health Authority has cut 428 orthopaedic surgeries before the end of the fiscal year, he said.

Across the province, there are 15,000 people waiting for orthopaedic surgery, Dix said. The figure is confirmed on the province's waitlist website.

"They cancel 10,000 surgeries for us and they offer up those surgeries to people in Saskatchewan," said Dix. "When you offer up spaces to people from other provinces, then those are spaces that could and should be taken by the people who paid for those hospitals, paid for those operating rooms, paid for that capacity, and that's the people of British Columbia."

Dix disagreed with Falcon's assertion that people from B.C. will still be given priority in B.C. hospitals. "He's clearly wrong," he said. "They're not taking precedence. How do we know they're not taking precedence? Because he's cancelling surgeries for British Columbians and offering them to people in Saskatchewan."

Record levels of surgery: Falcon

Falcon said it is "nonsense" to say offering surgeries to people from other provinces is only possible because of the cancellations. "We will still be undertaking record levels of surgical procedures in British Columbia," he said.

Falcon said the B.C. government has reduced surgical wait times since 2001. The median wait for a knee replacement in 2001-2002 was 25.4 weeks, according to a chart provided by a ministry official. By 2008-2009 that was down to 13 weeks. The wait time for hip replacements decreased over the same period from 18.7 weeks to 10 weeks.

Similarly, Falcon said, the number of hip and knee replacements done in the province has doubled over the same period.

Bringing in people from Saskatchewan won't slow access to surgery for British Columbian's, he said. "Obviously I wouldn't do it if it was going to slow down the wait list."

Offering surgical spaces for sale while British Columbians are waiting is a bad precedent for public health care, said Dix. "The order of surgery in our public hospitals should be based on medical need. That has always been the abiding principle in British Columbia, until perhaps the Falcon era."

As the NDP's John Horgan, MLA for Juan de Fuca, put it in question period, "Only in Liberal bizarro world would cancelled surgeries be good news for British Columbians. George Orwell would be proud of the minister for that remark." [Tyee]

Andrew MacLeod is The Tyee's Legislative Bureau Chief in Victoria.

32 Comments:

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  • snert

    2 years ago

    Twisted

    This is simply the most twisted and deranged plan this government has come with, yet.

    Cutting services then trying to capitalize on the availability that's been created borders on insanity.

  • Jaclyn

    2 years ago

    Very twisted

    And yet not surprising from our lovely govt. All the more reasons for why another political alternative needs to come together, one that works for the benefit of the majority of BC'ers and not just the Liberal or NDP style of working for a select few.

  • Kam Lee

    2 years ago

    Krazee Wee Kev

    What a load of crap. Maybe some of those drugs floating into BC must be in his system. This is the craziest, most illogical, and damn mean spirited. It makes no sense. Add this to the ever-growing list of lies and mistruths they spew. Even the recovering alcoholic gordo wouldn't, or would he do something this underhanded? Yes. Time for him, his gf, his gang of fools to go. Such a waste of skin, all of them

  • Frank

    2 years ago

    Reduced wait times

    That would be because the Feds came up with a lot of money, I remember the phrase "fixing healthcare for a generation".

    I guess that "generation" lasted about 5 years?

    So since Liberal management skills grind to a halt when the Feds aren't handing over billions in new money I guess we can look forward to people from out of province getting the care they need while BC'ers sit at home in pain?

  • freebear

    2 years ago

    What the F..k!

    I guess we know where to find the low IQs the government has not been tracking!

    Won't this just increase BC patient wait times and lines; so even if Falcon makes money by selling surgeries to Saskatchewan patients, and reducing Saskatchewan patient wait times; he is increasing the backlog (as we boomers age and our joints give out!) and wait times for BC patients.

    So in Saskatchewan the decision is to spend more money to send patients to BC; but BC's solution is to postpone treatment for BC patients, until Falcon makes a profit which he will then use to treat BC patients later, as the wait lines grow longer.

    What the f..k?

  • sunshine coast girl

    2 years ago

    Bringing in people from Saskatchewan

    won't slow access to surgery for British Columbian's, he said. "Obviously I wouldn't do it if it was going to slow down the wait list."

    And Falcon, et al are our "brightest and our best". OMFG! How scary is that? What's really scary is that he really thinks we're somehow going to understand his twisted, convoluted logic.

    RECALL!!!!

  • OilbertaRedTory

    2 years ago

    Bankrupt Neo-liberal ideologues ...

    ... can't even run their own media :
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/the-day-leonard-asper-lost-the-street/article1342152/

    Public Medical Care cannot afford to be run by Falcon the Failed and Saskatchewan's Wall-fare :

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/op-ed/Repair+Medicare+privatize/2093016/story.html

  • Skywalker

    2 years ago

    Strange that we have not heard from Liberal fan club

    This is one of those issues that I would love to read Realisticman perspective on. It might provide some comic relief. I always had my doubts about Kevin Falcon bu this confirms it. He really is about five rungs past his level of competence. Who appointed him Minister of Health. Oh dear!

  • G West

    2 years ago

    This is the stupidest, most knuckleheaded idea ever

    First cut 10,000 surgeries - in facilities paid for by taxpayers - then truck paying customers in from another province.

    Idiots.

  • bougie

    2 years ago

    interesting business!!!

    Now Minister Falcon only has to look for another province or country where they provide better services for less money and we are making a profit. Soon we don't have to pay any taxes any more and we can revert all the cutbacks the Health Authorities had to make and reopen the OR's. Don't worry the liberals will take care of you.
    Seldom have I seen such business savvy.

  • crankypants

    2 years ago

    Maybe we are missing the bigger picture

    Ever since the last provincial election the Liberal cabinet ministers have been coming out with nothing but wingnut announcements. From the Campbell and Hansen dog and pony show in May to Falcon now and pretty much everything in between, the announcements and reasonings just haven't passed the smell test.

    Maybe the IOC forgot to inform us that they have added a new category for the winter olympics and these clowns are all going for the gold. The category has to be "the most incompetent cabinet minister".

    The outlandish statements coming out of Victoria have become so numerous that it is becoming too hard to remember them all. They must all be graduates of the "BS Baffles Brains School"!!

  • mary jane

    2 years ago

    when

    when are those of us who are so disgusted go and stand on the grass in victoria and give gordo the finger. Or go on strike??

    Is this new crap because gordo has made such a mess of our finances that we are about to go totally bankrupt?

  • matken

    2 years ago

    Hide Flu Vaccine from the Dishonorable Kevin Falcon

    Please keep Kevin Falcon away from BCs flu vaccine supply or he'll be selling it off to Saskatchewan so British Columbians can get vaccinated "sooner and quicker." Huh?

  • freebear

    2 years ago

    We cab house your homeless for a premium and we can then build

    affordable housing for our homeless sometime down the road, and we are not sure how mcuh of a premium we'll get and not sure how many homes will be built and when but its a good idea!

    Makes as much sense as doing surgeries for people in Saskatchewan for a premium!

  • freebear

    2 years ago

    Oops! We can house your homeless....

    dang typos!

  • alive

    2 years ago

    Re-arraning the deckchairs on the Titanic

    Let's see now:
    Saskatchewan people get cured here and we send our sick people to Korea/ Taiwan / Whatever and get them fixed up cheaper still?
    Move people around and make money doing it.... weird!
    How about we trade provinces? we all move east and they can live here?
    I wonder if Falcon has shares in some ambulance transport company?

  • crh

    2 years ago

    Thanks for the tip Kevin

    What a brilliant business plan. I could do the same thing here at home. I could charge my husband for sex, then I could use the money to send my kid to private school. Why didn't I think of this before?
    Such a win-win!

  • ME2

    2 years ago

    just apply logic.

    You guys just don't understand the perfect logic neocons use. Follow this, you dumkopfs:

    All branches of Gov't are inefficient. Yes, even those managed by extremely talented politicians amd consultants trained in the real world of business. This is becaue their employees - anybody who would work for Gov't - are stupid and lazy. But not consultants of course, since they're smart enough to grossly overcharge for their services, proof they fully understand how the system should work.

    It follows, then, that the only way to make Gov't services work efficiently is to underfund them. And even if doing so might make them even more "inefficient", well, who's gonna know the difference, eh? It's a win-win !!

    Ample proof for Falcon that such reasoning has seen positive results is that the waiting lists for orthopedic surgery have been nearly halved since the bad old days before 2001.

    Since this recipe has produced such dramatic results, obviously there is even more fat to be trimmed, so why not stress these lazy bastards with a few more funding cuts and with beefing up the patient load?

    Now there, neocon management strategy isn't all THAT hard to understand, is it?

  • Skywalker

    2 years ago

    ME2

    Easy to understand assuming you buy into the figures they give for waiting lists. Unfortunately no person I know that requires the surgery thinks they have been shortened much less halved from the time they realized they needed surgery. It is a con game.

  • ME2

    2 years ago

    Refutation for the non-believers.

    Wrong, Skyalker. The waiting lists HAVE to be accurate, since the Gov't itself has compiled them.

    The only people who question that are them commie NDPers.

  • khed67

    2 years ago

    Stop calling the BC Liberals "stupid"!

    The BC Libs and Falcon and the entire neocon army are not stupid, but I think they like the outraged masses thinking they are.

    Here's their diabolical plan:
    1- Neocons do whatever it takes to get themselves elected, even lie (e.g. "No HST").

    2- Elected neocons push their free market agenda through cutbacks, corporate benefits, and other undemocratic policies ("undemocratic" because majority opinion has no effect on decision-making).

    3- The voters think individuals like Falcon are stupid and incompetent, and we all call for their heads.

    4- Before the next election they make cosmetic changes, tell new lies, and dupe the dupe-able into voting for them again.

    (5- Former elected neocons move into cushy jobs working for the corporations that benefitted from their time in office. Recent shining example: Carole Taylor.)

    The BC Libs are extremely focussed and consistent in their actions.

    So stop being outraged by their alleged stupidity and start educating your friends and family (and selves) about what they are actually doing. As long as the BC Liberals (and their friends, the federal Conservatives) are in power, they will continue to systematically dismantle all the public services and government infrastructure that they can. The reason is simple: money.

  • realisticman

    2 years ago

    skywalker

    Everyone I've known from Saskatchewan is a decent person. If we in BC can help them out then I support that.

    The health-care system is the largest and most expensive, coupled with expensive and rapidly changing technology I wouldn't attempt to understand the complexities of it.

  • ME2

    2 years ago

    Fairy tale time

    Yes we believe you RMan, Falcon is indeed a medical missionary to the sick and the lame :-)

  • OilbertaRedTory

    2 years ago

    realistically, providing medical services to citizens ...

    is one of the simplest public services to facilitate. Almost every OECD country on earth has figured it out. Greater public control, lower costs :
    http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/52/33/38976604.pdf

    The private market place consistently fails to deliver medical services because illness is a forced market ; not a free market.

    Pragmatist must trump economists.

    Public solutions are Triple E ; Efficient. Equitable and Effective :
    http://www.michaelrachlis.com/product.pfe.php

    Nothing complex about it - unless you try to fit public services into an ideological box two sizes too small.

    From a great Saskatchewaner :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2oUInTUlAM

    Same story from a quarter century ago ; only worse neo-liberal economic theories today.

  • gerrycgc

    2 years ago

    Lease Surgeons to Saskatchewan

    So BC will be leasing our surgeons and surgeries to Saskatchewan. Then with the, "huge", sums of money the government makes, we take care of our own, with that profit. Sound like, private for profit, healthcare to me. Is Saskatchewan going to pay us with Canola?

    The BC government does not own our healthcare system, we do, the people who pay for it, taxpayers. Leave our system alone, you screwed it up enough. Quit selling off our legacy to the highest bidder.

    Saskatchewan, you could probably go to India, cheaper!

  • Frank

    2 years ago

    Except...

    .. that "we" won't be taking care of our own with the money we get from Saskatchewan. In fact, we're going to be caring for less of our own according to the government.

    I guess the money is needed to pay for that $50 billion plus in payments to P3's. Or was anyone under the impression that all that cement got poured for free?

  • ME2

    2 years ago

    jerrycgc

    There are endless possibilities with your India idea.

    We could create 3Ps to build hospitals in India, and similarly create an airline to fly Canadians back and forth to them.

    And I'm certain it wouldn't cost %100,000 / yr each to house our prisoners over there too.

    Increasing our production of goods there makes sense too, so with all the money we save on labour costs, we could even outsource all our legislating to India too, and as that has now become the highest cost to our economy, we could all live in the lap of luxury forever more.

    Thanks for the idea, jerrycgc, this could be truly revolutionary.

  • sunshine coast girl

    2 years ago

    Oh sure, Rman..

    No one says that people from Saskatchewan aren't nice people. But really.....I can't believe that you think that helping them out at such a high cost to British Columbians is a good thing. What the hell? Even you have a hard time justifying this one.

  • Frank

    2 years ago

    sunshine coast girl

    Oh he can justify anything the Libs do. He only hangs out on places like the Tyee because he needs something entertaining or interesting in his life. Sad really.

  • emuman

    2 years ago

    Health Care

    It is clear to me that Falcons mandate is privatation of our health system.Selling beds to others provinces is privatizing. This governement is a same to democraty

  • guystone

    2 years ago

    Intelligent

    Its a smart move. If you can sell surgeries for more than it costs then with the extra money we can have more surgeries for ourselves. Makes sense to me.

    The article is misleading and lacks information to say the least. It might be about surgeries that we have overcapacity on. We should be "trading" with the other provinces if that is the case. BC has one of the best health care systems in Canada.

    The real problem is that although the Liberals skyrocketed the spending the government unions and government employees sucked up all that money and then some.

  • alive

    2 years ago

    blinders on?

    guystone did you come out from under a stone?
    HEU workers took a 15% wagecut, and have still to get back to where they were before Campbell, never mind the increased cost of living in the intervening years.
    The monies were partly sucked up by increases to top salaried mandarins but mostly shuffled into general revenue.

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