'No Risk to Taxpayer' Vows Olympic Village Builder
City claims taxpayers' interests trump public's right to know about $100 million loan.
Millennium project under construction.
Neither the City of Vancouver, which reportedly loaned up to $100 million, nor Millennium Development, which allegedly accepted the money, would directly confirm the existence of a secret deal revealed Thursday.
But that did not stop either lender or borrower from commenting on the deal. Both insist the Olympic Village at Southeast False Creek will be completed on time and with no additional risk to Vancouver taxpayers.
Deputy City Manager Jodi Andrews said taxpayers' interests trump the public's right to know about any such loan.
"There's a difference between the public and the taxpayer," Andrews told a scrum of reporters outside the construction site. "It's not in the taxpayers' best interest to talk about the day-to-day dealings... it really is inappropriate and is harmful to the taxpayer."
And Millennium Development Corporation director Shahram Malek told The Tyee Vancouver's taxpayers are not at risk.
"Any money that may have been loaned is fully secured by the real estate and by other assets as well," Malek said in a brief telephone interview. "There is absolutely no exposure for the taxpayer. None."
Malek emphasized that the project is on schedule.
"I won't say there haven't been challenges. There have been a lot of challenges. But we've overcome them all," Malek said. "I have complete confidence the Olympic Village will be handed over to VANOC on or before Oct. 31, 2009."
Ladner out of media range
Globe and Mail columnist Gary Mason broke news of the loan on Thursday morning, with two dramatic but unattributed allegations: first, that the City of Vancouver has authorized lending up to $100 million to "rescue the financially troubled Olympic athletes village" project; and second, that Director of Finance Estelle Lo had resigned "after months of apparently expressing concerns the city might be assuming too much financial risk in an effort to meet its obligation to get the Olympic housing built on time."
Questions about that report were put to Vancouver Coun. Peter Ladner, who chairs the city's finance committee, at a Thursday morning debate. Ladner, who as the Non-Partisan Association mayoral candidate has been anything but camera shy, walked away from reporters seeking comment on the alleged loan -- and made no further public appearances on Thursday.
Vision Vancouver opponent Gregor Robertson joined the fray shortly before noon, and called on Ladner to disclose the deal.
"Voters need to know the full details of this story. I am calling for an emergency public council meeting next week to table the financial information," Robertson said.
NPA campaign spokesman Michael Meneer said Ladner was waiting on a City of Vancouver announcement that would clarify the situation.
"The ball is really in the city's court today," Meneer told The Tyee. "They'll be releasing something shortly."
City hall mum on loan, resignation
But the cryptic news release issued by the city shortly after 2 p.m. provided no answers.
"The financial and schedule risks assumed by the city with respect to the Olympic Village remain unchanged," the release stated.
"Staff has kept all council members informed," the release continued. "The city will continue to make information publicly available when appropriate..."
Deputy City Manager Andrews, who manages the Olympic Village project, spoke to a soggy scrum of reporters outside the construction site about an hour later. He refused to comment on either the loan or the resignation.
"If something like that has happened, I will not be able to comment on it," Andrews said.
He confirmed that the billion-dollar Olympic Village project is about $65 million over budget, but added that an overage of less than 7 per cent was exceptionally low for the Vancouver construction market. (One obvious comparison is the Vancouver Trade and Convention Centre, which is on track to cost up to double what was initially budgeted.)
Andrews also said the city has hired SNC Lavalin to oversee the project.
"They will provide us with a preliminary review. We'll have a look at that and decide where to go from there," he said.
Andrews stated several times that the city was acting in taxpayers' best interests by not revealing anything about the reported loan.
"If you were negotiating a contract with somebody, would you every morning go and tell everybody you know and the competitors what your positions were?" he asked.
'No favours involved': Millennium chief
Millennium's Malek also declined to discuss the $100 million loan, but spoke generally about the project.
"There are no favours involved. There are no risks to the taxpayer. These things I can tell you categorically," Malek said.
"We are meeting all of our obligations. We are paying the full price for the land. We have not gone to the city and asked for concessions. We have stuck to our agreement," he added.
Millennium Development is a part of the Armeco Group. The company's Metro Vancouver developments include Lumiere, L'Hermitage, SFU's One University Crescent, UBC's Bristol at Hampton Place, and Edgewater in West Vancouver.
Malek would not comment on why the city was so steadfastly obtuse about the Olympic Village deal, but said he was frustrated by the assumptions about his company that were being made in the press.
"It's been a bit disheartening," Malek said. "I believe this project will be a real benefit to the whole city. We haven't cut any costs. This is something that is going to be a model for other Olympic cities."
Other Millennium projects slowed
Malek also sought to correct recent press reports stating Millennium had "halted construction" at its eight-hectare Evelyn Drive project in West Vancouver.
"We never started construction. So there was no construction to halt," he said.
"Bob [Rennie] advised us to wait until the spring, or maybe even summer, before bringing those homes to market," Malek said. "We recently completed demolition and clearing, so we were at a logical point to take a break for the winter."
Likewise, Malek said Millennium is in an "enviable position" at Southeast False Creek.
"We can take our time," he said. "We have the loans in place for the full project. Those loans are not contingent on presales.... We have two to three years to sell the units. And those are our finest units, closest to the waterfront," he said.
"We happen to believe in the future of Vancouver," Malek added. "We're just moving a little more slowly than we were. Everyone has to be prudent."
Related Tyee stories:
- Endowment fund bolstering 'struggling' Olympic Village: Ladner
- Robertson calls on Ladner to disclose Olympic Village loan
- Our World Class Olympic Village? Southeast False Creek can showcase a better future.
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jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Best. Quote. Evar.
...from a Vancouver civil servant.
Because it's not the public paying taxes? According to Andrews, Vancouver residents do not have a right to know what their tax money is spent on. I'd expect spin from the City on a story like this, but the above quote is just insulting. I like how she considers a 100 million dollar loan "day-to-day dealings". "Ho hum, a few hundred million here, a few hundred million there, who's counting?" It makes me wonder what other secret deals involving public money - that if revealed would be "harmful" to the "tax-payer" (i.e. embarrassing to the City) - have yet to come to light.
DJT
3 years ago
Yeah, right.
No risk to taxpayers- Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Ahhh, that's a good one.
dorothy
3 years ago
Supping with the devil?
Is there anything in this scenario, that should not have been equally obvious way back when a lot of happy-go-lucky city-dwellers with lemming traits put their 'x' in the box for 'yes'?
Not to me, there isn't, which is why I chose the other box.
However, now that we're in this up to our necks, taxpayers indeed have no interest in a public dissection and panic. What do we want? people with a bit left in their coffee kitty, and who are contemplating a move to our fair city, running for the hills? No, we want them to come here and help us bail ourselves out of the muck. Therefore, we ought to all buy into the conspiracy of silence from here on in, like the co-op I was a member of once, which continued selling shares at full cost to new members, after it actually couldn't have paid the existing members more than 80 cents on the dollar for their shares. That's the spirit! So, shut up. No more panic or sensationalism, no more 'revelations'. let's play this right, so we have more people to fleece, so the pain will get less for each one, and particlularly for us. Imagine a European having to tell this to people born and raised in North America! I have the feeling I have finally understood what this place is all about...
egmont rapids
3 years ago
The untold story
The big story that no one is talking about--1/3 of the units were supposed to go for affordible social housing! They are all out of luck!
I believe that was the plan all along,did anyone really believe that poor or low income people were going to end up with a waterfront condo in false creek!
What is a affordible unit? 700.000.00 --800.000.00 ---900.000.00
The convention center,the olympic village,these projects are nothing but planned and arranged robberies of the public purse.
Look at the players.who was running/heading the convention center--No other than Ken Dobell,Campbell`s office buddy/ Cost over runs --no,money laundering.
Who`s wants to bring up the connection with Gordon Campbell and the millenium corporation!
Another robbery of the public purse/money laundering scheme!
Watch and wait, right after the provincial election in may,millenium declares bankruptcy,turns the project over to the city,where all of a sudden 400million more dollars will have to be infused in the project!
Follow the money,follow the history of millenium,follow some numbered companies,and TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK AT THE DIRECT CONNECTION WITH GORDON CAMPBELL(BCs version of sargeant Shultz)--" I know nothing"
Yet you Liberals want to talk about a patio deck--OMG
David Lewis
3 years ago
Olympic whoppers
There's something about organizing an Olympics that brings out the best from con artists you'd normally think were just run of the mill types:
Mayor Jean Drapeau, speaking about the Montreal Olympics in 1976 which he had pronounced to be "self financing":
"the Montreal Olympics can no more have a deficit than a man can have a baby."
in fact, the Games were going to make so much money, he said:
"It won't be very long before some argument is started throughout Canada to find out how the surplus will be spent,"
The total cost of the Big Owe, the Olympic Stadium is said to have been over $1 billion, some say $1.6 billion.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Vision Vancouver - Where Are You???
Vision Vancouver councillor Raymond Louie, vice-chairman of the city's finance committee, and the other 3 Vision Vancouver councillors as well as COPE councillor Cadman all voted lock in step with the NPA in approving the $100 million loan.
So if councillors of all political stripes unanimously approved the $100 million loan, who's to blame?
NicS
3 years ago
$100 Million Bailout - Peanuts On World Scale
It seems we are luckier than most areas of the world right now. Goldman Sachs has just taken the lions share of their UK & US bailout monies and given Xmas bonuses to their partners.
Of course this may benefit the 2010 winter Olympics, if any of these partners spend their bonuses at the games. Or maybe they'll invest some of their $2.5 billion in bonuses here and buy up the Millennium Project.
Seriously though, if you want to start to understand why we collectively feel suckered by the financial world. Check out this conversation of Naomi Klein with Joseph Stiglitz and Hernando de Soto.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Luke/ NPA Dead /Gordon Campbell Dead
This is all going to leak back to Gordon Campbell!
Campbell`s money laundering will eventually see charges laid!
Please everyone --Read what david Berner has to say, the lights will be turned on to expose the extent of the crimes!
http://thebernermonologues.blogspot.com/2008/11/ladner-is-finished.html
davidex
3 years ago
More money to Fortress??? Oh, Please!
Upon reading David Berner's blog, I notice that he reminded us that the money is not going to Millenium, but Fortress Investments. I forgot about these scoundrels - the ones who are currently holding on to their Whistler projects by a thread but apparently now have secure financing to continue. Did the City of Vancouver send some money to help Fortress there too? Did Gordo?
This is getting interesting! I personally want to see everyone in that Finance meeting thrown off of Council!
egmont rapids
3 years ago
The story gets really interesting!
Check out the story from an 80 year old grandma,she has more balls than all the canwest reporters put together!
Betty k --She scooped the story back in febuary,this story leaks back to Campbell
A must read,check the date on her story/scoop---febuary 1/2008
http://betty`earlyedition,blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html
it is story number 2 on the page/
My hat is off to you Betty,I wish everyone had your courage!
egmont rapids
3 years ago
here is bettys link
http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archives.html
egmont rapids
3 years ago
I try again with her link
Please read her olympic/millenium construction story,she is so wise,she will blow your mind!
http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html
This 80 year old investigative reporter scooped everyone!
G West
3 years ago
Good stuff egmont
And thanks to you too NicS...Campbell (and I expect Dobell) is all over this stuff...
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
More Political Blunders...
In addition to my previous post...
And now this:
To this from former Vision Vancouver mayor Larry Campbell:
To this:
To this:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=8bf68757-f4cc-4cf6-91db-d78abd4b9ede
Methinks Robertson's continual campaign bungling is gonna bite his arse big time by the end of next week.
zalm
3 years ago
Millennium's broke
Millennium has halted work on the Evelyn Drive project in West Vancouver. They've spent a healthy chunk of the original $64 million on land clearing and regrading the site, and gave assurances to Mayor Pam Goldsmith-Jones, as reported in the North Shore News and North Shore Outlook that the project, once begun with clearing the old homes (which was delayed for more than a year) would continue continously until project comletion.
This is obviously another canard by Malek and Millennium. They're on the edge of broke, and they'll take not only Vancouver, but West Vancouver down with them, who has put money into beginning the servicing of the property without possibility of return.
My aunt is one of the six holdouts on the project site, and she personally received assurances from both Malek's construction supervisor and his vice president in front of council that work would continue until completion, expected in about 3 years for the projects at the western end of the site, and 5 years for the projects at the eastern end of the site.
This is typical of the bogus "Olympic fever" that Gordo said would be so good for the City. Richmond bought in wholesale and traded $178 million of their lands - a public trust for future generations - for what amounts to operating costs to build a bogus ice rink that won't amount to a hill of beans when the Olympics are over, due to warps in the ice sub-surface.
Now Vancouver has traded $190 million of value in their Property Endowment (because this is where their money came from - the slush fund to end all slush funds) to prop up a development in SE False Creek that includes NO poverty housing and only 115 units of non-market but only marginally-affordable housing.
This is a sickening turn of events by the party that was supposed to be so proud of their ability to manage our public funds - the NPA. What a bogus lot they are.
Disgusting.
Stump
3 years ago
In camera meetings
I think the supposed necessity of this deal being done in camera is bogus. The deal is done and the developer is coming cap in hand. There's not negotiations going on that could be affected, no personnel issues at risk of going public. This is a far different animal from the secret deals earlier in the year that saw run-down hotels bought up for housing projects, where I can understand the need for secrecy to avoid gouging and speculation. The only outcome to fear here is investors looking twice at getting involved in this project and frankly they deserve to know what's going on. The developers' interests trump those of the general populace again and again (Eagleridge anyone?) and it's turning our democracy into a joke.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Betty Krawczyk ---She had it right from the begginning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGXr7S90bX8
The story isn`t the 100 million bailout, the story is the original deal/ wholesale robbery of the public purse
http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2008/02/for-love-of-olympics.html
morechatter
3 years ago
Ladner says Robertson Iresponsible
Because he let the public know what was going on with their tax dollars. Ladner says Robertson could cost tax payers millions spoiling their negotiating. Ladner had also promised he would not increase taxes just about the same time the deal was going down insuring tax payers were on the hook for hefty increased despite property values dropping. So increased taxes are now a guarantee thanks to the NPA along with reduction of much needed services. I also heard they have been busy selling off the rental units promised to the area. Its very comforting isn't it when the guy who borrows the money promises he's good for it. I was unaware the tax payers were going to have to be on the hoook for the Olympics but I guess you are but how can you afford it?
morechatter
3 years ago
I call it damage control
Do you think they pushed this deal through before the election thinking if Robertson gets in it will never go down without the consensus of the people? I do.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Me-thinks you is trying to deflect
Luke, who do you think your fooling?
Forget the NPA,their done,forget Ladner,he`s toast!
This whole scale robbery is coming at Gordon Campbell!
Who dumped this on Vancouver`s lap?
Don`t think Gordon Campbell can play the role of seargent Schultz(I know nothing)
Someone needs to talk to the previous olympic minister(Colin Hansen)
Vancouver didn`t make "The Deal" --Vancouver were tagged into the deal,Gordon Campbell pushed the deal onto Vancouver to deflect, he can run but he can`t hide!
Forget Sam Sullivan,he is and never was anything but a corporate figurehead.
Gordon Campbell set up all the deals!
Gordon Campbell just spread the dirt around figuring if everyone`s hands are dirty there would be less of a chance of the scams being exposed!
This one leads right back to the premier, Ask the right questions,find the right source,Gordon Campbell will resign over this one!
Cheers
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
I Prefer Alex Tsakumis' Take on The Matter...
Yes, the same political pundit/insider Alex Taskumis who stated that he has "been very generous to Gregor, far more than Peter".
Alex Tsakumis:
Interestingly enough, as for the Vancouver political race itself:
MacKenna
3 years ago
Re: "It's not in the
Re:
As someone who works for the gov't he's balled this one up. What he means is it's not in the government's (and to some degree society's) best interest because having to seek approval from taxpayers on every expenditure would hamstring every decision and stall projects and progress. That said, as every Olympics the world over has demonstrated, the Olympics tends to be a sink hole of debt for government.
The trouble with this project isn't that it isn't viable in the long run, it's that developers are getting caught up in the credit crisis. Banks are raising lending rates and stalling lending right now. This is happening at the same time that sales are declining and fewer buyers are coming forward. Metro Van's housing bubble was bound to burst sometime because house prices were highly inflated. This was driven by investors buying to flip and 40 year mortgage offerings at low interest rates. Housing prices are still unaffordable for the average middle class earner. They're going to have to come down more.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Do-tell Luke
Speaking of tolls,where is the september and october Ipsos reid poll--You know the polls Luke,the one with Campbell trailing the NDP by 11 points!
Ladner would rather lose the election than admit/or expose the fraud.
The fraud will be exposed by Gregor Robertson anyways!
So go-ahead Luke,keep trying to drag everyone into it,Ladner was the committee chair!
We now why Carole Taylor resigned as provincial finance minister,we also know now why Colin Hansen (ex minister of sport and Olympics) was promoted to finance minister,does he sleep with the books under his pillow?
No wonder Gordon Campbell has been hitting the sauce hard in recent weeks!
I am waiting for the NDP / auditor general/the public/the Law --We will be having a FULL PUBLIC INQUIRY --HEADS WILL ROLL
NicS
3 years ago
Sullivan & Graves Official Patsies !
"Luke Skywalker" appears to be doing the bidding of Alex Tsakumis, who's comments on David Berner's site, suggesting that it is Vancouver's city mgr.Judy Rogers and Sam Sullivan who are responsible for this Millennium mess.
Luke, when you use a shell game to try to deflect responsibility, you're supposed to use shells so we can't see what your doing. Talk about transparent idiots.
And Alex Tsakumis protecting Millennim's lawyer of record, this Barbeau fellow, more transparent shell games.
EGMONT RAPIDS,thanks for your link to BETTY K's 'good stuff' as G WEST put it.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Since your such an expert on polls,where are they?
Where are the polls for Ipsos Reid and Mustel?
Where are the polls that Keith Baldrey and Shawn Leslie refer to--
August 27/2008--Angus Reid poll has the BC NDP up 3 points!
What did Keith Baldrey and Shawn Leslie say about the Angus Reid poll at 9.07 am friday august 29th/2008
They both said and I quote " We can`t wait to see the Ipsos reid poll and mustel polls that will be out shortly"
August 29---The cutting ledge--CKNW --Time--9.07 am
Here is the link
http://cknwam.corusradionetwork.com/emmis/AudioVault.cfm
Cue up 9.00am friday august 29th/2008
Because Luke,just what I have been saying for 2 months, THE BC LIBERALS ARE DOWN 11 AND 12 POINTS IN THE POLLS
The intereting part is at 9.07 am
Cheers
egmont rapids
3 years ago
100 million in advertising Luke
All that advertising,all those media monitors,all that free advertising from canwest!
All that pump up from global/from cknw/ Palmer/baldrey/from chek tv/from shaw tv/from the victoria times!
All that Luke and still campbell trails by 12 points in the latest Ipsos Reid Polls
No bonus for you this year eh Luke!
The fact that Campbell burnt up the last 2 Ipsos polls, doesn`t mean the results didn`t happen!
Cheers and by the way Luke,have you bought an INSULIN PUMP YET?--
I FIGURED NOT--YA TALK THE TALK,SO MR. BULLSHIT---WALK!
realisticman
3 years ago
Show me the MONEY!!!
Gregor Robertson's party VISION received campaign money from Millennium, the developer. Gregor shouldn't have taken it.
Peter Ladner's NPA party refused an offer of money.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Show me the deal!
Just divulge all the details of the deal period/let the chips fall where they be---
This story has nothing to do with who millennium gave money too
This story is about the original deal/the original deal with Campbell/Hansen/Vanoc/IOC/NPA
Public inquiry required!
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?h1=en&q=betty+krawczyk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#
DPL
3 years ago
I havn't enjoyed the lead up
I havn't enjoyed the lead up to a municipal election since I was stationed In Quebec. we couldn't vote as we had only been there two years, nobody knows why?
But the big kicker was the mayor happened to be in jail so couldn't attend any candidate meetings. He won by the way. We learned a lot about politics in our time there. Shady deals all over the place.
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
DPL and shady deals
I trust that you are not saying that there are shady deals everywhere so BC might as well face it and continue to put up with it? I, for one, have had enough of my hard-earned money mismanaged by the provincial juicer and the Vancouver city boys. Vancouver doesn't just get its money from its citizens and businesses: we country bumpkins donate a good portion of our sweat for the big city coffers through provincial transfers courtesy of the juicer.
DPL
3 years ago
Heck no "Sharing is Good".
Heck no "Sharing is Good". We didn't condone the lack of a democratic vote way back when in Quebec, a place we arrived at because the military had sent us there.Nice people, crooked politics was the way things were run then. Nor to we condone some strange decisions right here in BC. Suddenly our home assesments are frozen which makes no sense at all as it passes on the flak to the municipalities who set the mill rate. So the tax payers can blame them. Hey not my fault says King Gordo and that's just one example. Take the tolls off the Coq. at a UBCM meeting so the folks will love Gordo. Sell our railway after prommising not to do so, is just a start of the deals pulled here. What do we do about it? Well either roll over or get rid of the folks cooking up the deals. I simply found this municipal election full of surprises so we find the lead up quite exciting. Time to get rid of the Liberal farm team, the NPA. Wonder what day the folks will find out if the Financial boss, has quit, fired, or just out of town? A couple of phone calls should confirm that. To say someone is on the payroll isn't a definite yes or no. most folks when they leave still get severance pay or saved up holiday pay. But why come clean? That isn't the NPA way. So put your mind at rest our family doesn't condone such deals any more than you do. Get out and vote the NPA into past history.
realisticman
3 years ago
What's the Deal?
All Gregor has to do is pick up the 'phone and ask his Millennium buddies what the deal is; since it's VISION that received campaign money from Millennium, not the NPA.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Here`s the deal
From what I gather--
Millennium,who has no assets,were lent(the land) by Vancouver,Millenium were also guaranteed by Vancouver.
Millenium, with borrowed land,obtained more loans(or the illusion of loans) from fortress.
The city of Nanaimo,also wanted to play the same game,so Nanaimo (gave) land for the Nanaimo convention center to Millenium for 10 dollars,
now that Millenium had another land asset,leveraged more loans(or the appearence of more loans)from fortress.
The plan Millenium had was to go over budget on all projects by hundreds of millions of dollars,the fact that they were olympic projects they would HAVE TO BE COMPLETED BEFORE YOU COULD UNRAVEL THE MESS!
The fly in the ointment for Millenium was that --Fortress got consumed by the derivative beast,therefore could not pony up their end of the Millennium scam!
So the scam as I see it, Millenium corporation,with no assets,were given city/provincial assets, which they used to leverage large sums of construction capitol,if the plan worked out,Millenium,a company with no capitol would make hundreds of millions with no risk!
No matter what the construction cost was,Millenium would merely have to inflate the price with ALLEDGED COST OVER-RUNS TO GUARANTEE BIG PROFITS,THE FACT THAT THESE PROJECTS WERE (olympic projects)THEY WOULD NOT BE STOPPED,THE MONEY WOULD BE FOUND!
Gordon Campbell and colin Hansen have been very quiet on this matter!
Remember,Colin Hansen was the minister in charge of the Olympics! Now Colin Hansen is the finance minister? This WHOLE DEAL HAS GORDON CAMPBELL`S FINGERPRINTS ALL OVER IT!
The question needs to be asked,WHY,WHO,WHAT,WHERE,WHEN,
Who allowed Millenium Development corporation to be allowed in on the bidding for these projects,when MILLENNIUM HAD NO ASSETS,NO CAPITOL,AND THE ONLY WAY MILLENNIUM COULD RAISE CAPITOL WAS TO BE LENT LAND( by the city of Vancouver/Nanaimo) so they could leverage money through fortress!
So the city of Vancouver lent Millennium land and guaranteed other monies to Millennium to start the whole ball rolling!
THIS WHOLE DEAL WAS A FRAUD FROM THE GET-GO,IT WAS DESIGNED AT A MINIMUM TO GO HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OVER BUDGET WITH THAT MONEY FUNNELING TO MILLENIUM!
Forget about this last hundred million dollars,this has nothing to do with the scam!
WE NEED TO FIND THE ORIGINAL CRAFTERS OF THE DEAL!
WHO STARTED THE BALL ROLLING?
WHO DEEMED MILLENNIUM WORTHY?
WHO APPROVED MILLENNIUM`S BID? AND ON WHAT GROUNDS?
MILLENNIUM NEVER HAD ANY RISK,THEY HAD NOTHING TO START WITH!
MORE QUESTIONS FOR PAUL BARBEAU?
MORE QUESTIONS FOR COLIN HANSEN?
MORE QUESTIONS FOR GORDON CAMPBELL?
MORE QUESTIONS FOR VANOC?
MORE QUESTIONS FOR LADNER,NPA,VANCOUVER COUNCIL,MS LO,
WHY DID MS LO --RESIGN?
WHO`S FEET DOES THIS WHOLE SCAM FROM BEGGINNIG TO END FALL WITH?
GORDON CAMPBELL(GLUG GLUG GLUG) AND COLIN HANSEN AND VANOC.
MANY HEADS WILL ROLL,STARTING WITH GORDON CAMPBELL AND THE BC LIBERALS!
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
egmont rapids...
Buddy, for some reason you remind me of a coyote.
No not that one.
This one: :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18oyNInSgDc&feature=related
Beep. Beep.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Betty knew
http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2008/02/for-love-of-olympics.htnl
Betty had it right,we the taxpayers lent money/assets to Millenium,just so Millennium could charge us hundreds of millions of dollars for borring money!
Without OUR assets,Millennium could not have financed anything,their bid should have been rejected from the very begginning!
Campbell and Hansen will have to answere questions on this matter when the legislature opens! I can`t wait!
Nothing is before the courts,question will have to be answered,either in question period or out in the hallway to the media!
Perhaps Campbell will change his mind on opening the legislature?
There will be a call for a public inquiry!
The story is in there Luke--I don`t care if Vision goes down with the NPA
Ms LO---She will have some answeres.
It is the oldest trick in the book,give everyone an envelope full of cash,if everyone is guilty,no-one talks.
I am not trying to save vision or Gregor.
This story/this scam ---Lays at the feet of the original crafters of "The Deal"
If there was not a world melt of credit, the only part of this story that would of happened is the (over Budget part)
The over budget part --Cost over-runs to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars was in the planning(scheming)from the very begginng.
This "On time on Budget" olympic village story isn`t going away, regardless of Gordon Campbell`s and Colin Hansen`s sargeant Shultz routine( I know nothing,I hear nothing,I see nothing!) Ain`t going to cut it!
I am glad I got your attention Luke,where there is smoke,there`s fire!
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Here is that link
SHE KNEW!
http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2008/02/for-love-of-olympics.html
OilbertaRedTory
3 years ago
Drapeau's Bouncing Baby Turned 30
David Lewis wrote:
Mayor Jean Drapeau, speaking about the Montreal Olympics in 1976 which he had pronounced to be "self financing":
"the Montreal Olympics can no more have a deficit than a man can have a baby."
Happy Thirtieth birthday ;
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/12/19/qc-olympicstadium.html
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
egmont rapids - well done!
egmont rapids, I am not surprised by what you have written in regards to Millenium, Campbell, and Vancouver City Council.
Is there any possible way to fully prove the veracity of your words; and if so, how do we get it published for months on end in the main stream media? This is another scandal of Olympic Proportions. Years later, we continue to hear about a deck that a neighbour built for a neighbour when we have this scandal, the .5 billion in over-runs for the Convention Centre and the ludicrous building the scating oval on seismically sensitive Richmond. More of the same kind of juiced-up mangement that gave us leaky condos I say.
Are there any reporters/authors including those at The Tyee willing to pick this up and publish it? This could make a good writer/reporter famous!
realisticman
3 years ago
Don't Forget
This is a Vancouver City contract, not as egmont keeps demanding heads for, a provincial deal. This is City land and a City contract.
The original Official Community Plan for the Village and the original deal with Millennium was signed while Larry Campbell was mayor. Yes, that's Larry Campbell originally of COPE but, by that time, the party he was leading was - VISION.
G West
3 years ago
Realisticman
So Larry Campbell voted, while the director of finance for the City was not available - to extend 100 million to a 'private' developer with strong ties to the Campbell Government? What have you been smoking my friend?
I'd say your remark is pretty much irrelevant, wouldn't you?
And the current city government lead by Sam Sullivan of the NPA?
Will wonders never cease...Larry Campbell hasn't been mayor of Vancouver for three years - this mess is, as is so frequently the case, and NPA mess and it's a Tar baby that will stick to Ladner like glue....
egmont rapids
3 years ago
You wrong Rman
Canada line is a olympic/provincial problem
Speed skating oval/ olympic village--These were all provincial olympic projects dumped on the cities to deflect olympic costs from the province.
Sea to sky highway is another olympic project!
All olympic projects had to be approved by the provincial goverment and vanoc.
How much money did the province pay to remove toxic soil from the village?
Typical Rman--So what is the province responsible for?
Are you saying Colin Hansen did not give his approval, or Vanoc
Are you saying that any olympic venue did not have to be approved by Gordon Campbell?
Are you saying Gordon Campbell didn`t force 3 Canada line skytrain votes?
Translink voted the canada line down twice,what premier was on TV pleading and begging with sweat rolling down his face asking for a third vote?
Are you saying RMAN that Campbell isn`t responsible for the 1 billion dollar cost over-run on the Canada line?
Which premier was on TV with all the media present stating over and over again "440 million for the convention center,not a penny more"
That was 500 million dollars ago!
How about the 70 million for upgrades at BC place?
How about the proposed clam shell that got scrapped?
How about the 1 billion security bill?
How many times has Gordon Campbell/Colin Hansen crowed about "On time on budget" for all olympic budgets.
What if Vancouver said no to the village? This is a provincial project that got approval and direction from Gordon Campbell/Colin Hansen and Vanoc.
Rman,your losing your touch
realisticman
3 years ago
All Baloney, all the time
What 'strong ties' are there GWest? The developer was chosen by the City of Vancouver based on their bid price, which was the highest and after others had dropped out. This was not a Provincial project! Some people just believe everything they read in the pulp-press!
It's all here:
http://vancouver.ca/olympicvillage/
and the specifics here:
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20060404/documents/a4.pdf
"CITY MANAGER'S COMMENTS
This report, to select a Developer for Sub-area 2A of Southeast False Creek, including the
Olympic Village, is a significant milestone and concludes a selection process that began eight
months ago, in August 2005, with the public issuance of the Request for Expressions of
Interest. This has been a long, committed process for both staff and the developer teams,
and it must be acknowledged that the three Short-listed Respondents (defined below) have
provided high calibre, impressive proposals that meet or exceed the City’s requirements.
Notwithstanding the high calibre of the three proposals, the findings of the Evaluation
Committee are conclusive. The evaluation methodology and findings have been reviewed and
it is recommended that Millennium Properties Limited be selected to be the Developer for
Sub-area 2A including the Olympic Village, on the basis of best value to the City. Millennium
Properties Limited has put forward a comprehensive proposal that meets or exceeds the City’s
requirements and offers the highest Purchase Price, without conditions."
egmont, The Canada Line is not over budget. What have YOU been smoking? "Budget: The Project remains on budget; all scheduled
contributions from funding agencies have been
received."
http://www.canadaline.ca/aboutFinancing.asp
Richmond bid highest for the Oval, which is also on budget by the way, and won that bid over Burnaby that wanted it too. Have you forgotten that already? It wasn't dumped on the city. Richmond had been buying land from people that wanted to sell it and that land was selected for the Oval. To finance the Oval Richmond offered and sold more land it had bought from willing sellers. The auction of the land was very successful and easily paid for the Oval and more.
"The Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee's selection of Richmond, B.C. as the sight of the speed skating oval for the 2010 Winter Games has angered the mayor of Burnaby, whose bid was rejected."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2004/08/18/ovalbid040818.html
zalm
3 years ago
realisticbumph
"egmont, The Canada Line is not over budget. What have YOU been smoking? "Budget: The Project remains on budget; all scheduled contributions from funding agencies have been received."
The Canada Line is $650 million over budget and the deficit has been plugged into a future maintenance contract to be signed when the work is completed, just as for the old Millennium line, which went $400 million over budget. The source, amount and contract for the bridge financing is unknown and the subject of a secret cabinet document signed late in 2005 that Chris Shaw and Rand Chatterjee were looking for as a kind of smoking gun. Regretfully, nothing seems to be able to breach cabinet privelige, at least from the level of us ordinary peons.
This $650 million deficit is then loaded onto the backs of Translink in its operating budget, and a time-limited subsidy (6 years for the Millennium line) applied, after which Translink has to find its own funds and raise new sources of revenue from new taxes.
Didn't any of you wonder why in 2005 Translink's budget suddenly went up by $105 million, and then about $15 million a year after that (in a time of declining interest rates) to $180 million in 2010 for amortization of fixed costs (read: the "Millennium line") after the 6-year subsidy disappeared? Or didn't any of you read the budget statements?
As far as the RAV deficit is concerned, this was done in order to protect the remaining unsecured creditors who "donated funds" to support the RAV line, even while the business case was crashing down around them - the BC Pension (Municipal, etc.) funds.
None of this is checkable now - it has all been removed from the BCIMC website. If I didn't have my own copy from 2005, nobody would know about it. I spent best part of a year trying to get the pension fund to own up to why it had decided to deliver $80 million in unsecured funds to the project that had as much hope of making a return on investment as a man had of having a baby.
Hmmmm, perhaps that wasn't the best choice of metaphor, was it....
G West
3 years ago
Strong Ties
Please follow links between John DeCourcy Evans and Gordon Campbell....they go back a long way...
realisticman
3 years ago
Please elaborate
Are you suggesting, GWest, that John DeCourcy Evans of Trilogy Properties Corporation is a friend of the Premier and that together they conspired and influenced staff recommendations at the City of Vancouver in the awarding of the contract for the Olympic Village? I doubt it.
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
Olympic oval - Olympic boondoggle
Realisticman's claim that the city of Richmond has paid for the construction through land deals is only partially true. Both, the province and the feds, have kicked in much funding.
From: Vancouver Sun, Daphne Bramham
Friday, March 17, 2006
"2010 oval's competitive future in question
Engineers cite liquefaction, settling hazards for $178-million facility; better site prep would put 2008 deadline at risk.
Geotechnical experts warn that within 10 years of completion, there is "considerable risk" that the soil beneath Richmond's Olympic speed-skating oval will have shifted enough that the oval will no longer meet the International Skating Union's stringent criteria for holding international events.
That is despite the fact Richmond is spending millions of dollars compressing, densifying and bolstering the site with 2,000 columns of rocks that go down to a depth of 26 metres -- roughly equivalent to the height of a 10-storey building.
It even added a $23-million underground parking lot with adjustable pillars for stability and the ability to make small levelling adjustments. That brought the oval's total estimated cost to $178 million. Richmond taxpayers are on the hook for all but $60 million of that."
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=9828605f-b7b7-470f-870f-43390e8ae331&p=3
So where did the extra $60,000,000 come from? The Province of BC and the Federal government each contributed $30,000,000 to the oval. Additionally, the province donated $1.5 million for engineering the roof.
From the City of Richmond web site:
"Funding Sources
[snip]
The City has identified a variety of funding sources that can support the project, which include the $60 million capital contribution from VANOC, $50 million from Casino funding, $12.6 million in Development Cost Charges, and a variety of other sources. A primary component of the funding will come from the development and sale or lease of the reminder of the 32-acre Oval site not occupied by the facility. A Request For Proposal on this property, which has been divided into seven parcels, will be issued early in 2006."
http://www.richmond.ca/discover/events/oval/backgrounder.htm#Project%20Cost
So it seems that provincial citizens have donated $50,000,000 from casino revenues for the oval. Isn't that fun-loving and family-oriented: gambling venues to support one of many 2010 mistakes of Olympic proportions! Easy come, easy go for the juiced-up high-rollers running our province I guess.
Common sense dictates that the oval should have been built where it would be most useful for the BC atheletes who would use it, and where it would have the greatest chance of surviving more than 10 years. VANOC, The city of Richmond, the Province and the Feds have all been reckless: they have not exercised due dilligence with the public purse.
realisticman
3 years ago
Voluntary Contributions
Much as casino gambling is not something I encourage it is one of those facts of life that, like prostitution, isn't going to go away. If funding is coming from casino gambling then that's better than taxing citizens directly. If it starts cracking up or floating away in a few years time I'll criticize it then, meanwhile, it looks like a winner.
[snip]
"Community Benefits
The City of Richmond chose to bid for the rights to the Oval after identifying the potential to advance its well established community vision and livability objectives while at the same time playing a significant role in the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. The community benefits of the Richmond Olympic Oval will be to:
* accelerate delivery of the City’s long-stated goals for upgrading and expanding its complement of sports facilities;
* become a focal point for community recreation and wellness amenities and services and a major new centre for sports training and competition;
* achieve objectives within the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services Master Plan in a much shorter time frame than otherwise possible;
* provide a significant external funding source that allows the City to offset the cost of replacing or upgrading City recreational facilities and other community amenities;
* allow the City to advance capital work to replace or upgrade existing facilities nearing the end of their life cycle;
* provide millions of dollars in economic spinoffs for the community beginning with the construction phase, through the Olympic Games and Post-Games uses;
* generate new tourism and economic gains for the City through increased tourist visits and spending and additional international exposure for Richmond;
* support the hospitality industry by helping to meet existing need for additional trade and exhibition space;
* access ongoing Olympic legacy funding to help offset facility operating costs;
* extend the City Centre to the waterfront in support of Richmond’s Official Community Plan;
* support development of a new City Centre Waterfront Park that will enhance public access and use of the Fraser River;"
"It became clear that there were significant benefits to being a host City for an Olympic venue and that an Oval was a financially viable facility. The City developed its concept for the Oval by creating a community-based model that responded to Richmond's existing needs for sports, recreation and wellness, business and cultural amenities, the City's vision for waterfront and City Centre development and the need for an Olympic legacy for high performance sports training and competition."
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Rman
Typical Rman,typical BC Liberals,Everything that goes well is followed by the statement of "on time on budget" along with a big fancy photo-op!
Everything that falls apart is someone else`s fault!
Cambie street merchants, that`s not the BC liberals fault,it`s Translink`s fault!
Ferry rates and cancelled runs and sunk boats,that`s the fault of BC ferries!
The pine forest die off, quote from Campbell " If the NDP had a carbon taX THE FOREST WOULD BE FINE"
Everything that goes right is Gordon Campbell`s baby,everything that goes wrong is the NDP fault.
Rman,you better tune into question period when the legislature opens next week,you will learn all about the connections between Gordon Campbell and Millennium!
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Rman
Here are a few names of the "Liberals" that are,and have from the begginning,supported the Millenium (limited) company.
Same game,diffrent town,same results.
The millennium(Liberal backed)company,do you need a little proof Rman
HAVE A GOOD READ
http://www.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=acde34dd-c8cc-40e8-ba94-53255b6510ab
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
R-Man Voluntary contributions
The public's making foolish voluntary contributions to the public coffer through casino gambling does not entitle the leaders to spend those dollars foolishly. The oval in Richmond is, and always has been, foolish. The oval was poorly conceived and it is too risky a venture to make sense. It is likely that this bulding will not be a leagacy, but an albatros that sinks slowly into the Fraser River silt. Once again, your arguments, like the oval, lack a solid foundation.
G West
3 years ago
Oh R/man
You're going to have to dig a lot deeper than that.
G West
3 years ago
And while you're at it,
This, from Gary Mason in the G&M, would also be a bit of an education for you:
...
Estelle Lo's concerns about the city's involvement in the Olympic athletes' village were well known and dated back more than a year.
It was then that the director of finance for the City of Vancouver first expressed to staff the worries she had about the financing arrangements with the project's developer, Millennium Development, according to sources.
Paramount among those concerns was the potential risk and liability the city was assuming in the project. Did the city have access to Millennium's corporate assets if it needed to recoup monies owed in the event the developer failed to complete the project, she wondered.
There seems little question now that her concerns led to her resignation, which was accepted by the city Oct. 29. Personally, I think she was given little choice: either you resign or we'll fire you. And while Mayor Sam Sullivan said last week he hadn't heard anything about her departure and that, as far as he knew, she was still on the payroll, that seems impossible to believe.
I was told yesterday her office has been padlocked.
...
If the loan from Fortress is $750-million and you add, potentially, $100-million to cover cost overruns, and then another $193-million for the cost of the land, then you're looking at total costs of more than $1-billion. That means the 1,100 units in the residential complex that was once the athletes' village would have to average $1-million each.
In this market, it's not going to happen.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
here is the link
here is the link to that story G West
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081111.BCMASON11/TPStory/TPComment/BritishColumbia
This story keeps growing legs everyday
egmont rapids
3 years ago
for good measure
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/LAC.20081111.BCFUND11/TPStory/TPNational/BritishColumbia
The story is coming out bit by bit.
Rman/Luke--Beep beep
This is one coyote who got it right!
realisticman
3 years ago
GWest
I didn't expect you to elaborate because, as usual, it's all spin. If the deal was so lousy then I'd like to know too.
The questions are really this:
Why did the VISION co-chair and councilors vote for this?
Why did the VISION candidate Robertson wait for The Globe & Mail reporter to bring it up, if VISION was there at the meeting and voted in favour?
Why is the NPA being challenged on a contract that was instigated by a VISION administration and brought forward by City staff and approved unanimously?
There may well be serious problems with this project but mud-slinging by VISION and it's supporters is all just negative campaigning against Peter Ladner and entirely melodrama.
The NDP wanted this Olympics, knowing full well that there would be obligations for a 'Village'. Vancouver City Hall, including VISION & COPE supported this project and it was City Staff that recommended the developer. Even if Robertson prevails the project has to be completed and he knows it. If the latest rumour is true then one would expect the VISION co-chair of the finance committee as well as the VISION members to resign since they now claim that they voted for a bad deal!
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Beep beep
Here is that other link
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081111.BCFUND11/TPStory/TPNational/BritishColumbia
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Rman
Who silenced Ms Lo ?
Sam Sullivan was always Gordon Campbells pawn!
Who was in charge of oversight.
Why are the Nanaimo Liberal MLAs still trying to prop up Millennium?
Who over-ode Ms LO`s authority?
Was vision aware of MS LO`s concern?
Your Wrong RMAN?LUKE---YOUR JUST WRONG
The village does not have to be completed,there are no olympic events taking place at the village!
At a 1000.00 a day for accomadations per athlete for 14 days would only cost around 30 million dollars!
I am sure many BC Home owners would be more than willing to house an athlete,especially for 1000.00 a day,
What is the big rush?
If 50% of the units are already sold/the remaining unit will have to sell for 1.5 million each,and there will be ZERO social housing!
They won`t sell,there will never be social housing in false creek waterfront condo`s,period!
So there is no need to rush,lets slow down,follow the money,it leads straight to VANOC/BC LIBERALS/NPA
This whole deal was nothing but a planned/robbery of the public purse!
All orchestrated by Gordon Campbell and Vanoc and the IOC
G West
3 years ago
Nope
Not my job to educate you R/man - the truth is out there - it's up to you to set yourself free...If you don't want to look, don't blame me for your ignorance of the connections that have run this city for decades and the province for the last 7 1/2 years.
Perhaps you just haven't been around long enough.
realisticman
3 years ago
You're so smart
Innuendo and insults, now at me, are much safer than putting yourself in a libelous situation, aren't they? Covering your arse.
"A Lie told often enough becomes the truth."
Lenin
on the other hand, it is worth remembering...
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil."
Plato
G West
3 years ago
No insult there
Because you are an immigrant you may not know the way the city of Vancouver has done business ever since the war - that's WWII I mean - I wouldn't ask you to make the more distant historical connections.
If you don't think the founders of Intrawest have connections with Marathon Realty and Gordon Campbell that go back decades and then move all the way up to the present through Whistler/Blackcomb and the Olympics. You really do need to get out and talk to more people who were around for that period.
You might wish to start with this story:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/08/25/bc_powmtn990825.html
It'll bring you in about half way along the story - and, you might be surprised to know, the Hartwicks haven't actually stopped fighting yet.
You can check that out too, while you're at it.
The tentacles spread everywhere - and touch everything the establishment in this province has put its greasy fingers into...
I certainly agree with the Plato quote though - I'd just apply it to correct actors.
Naïveté can take one only so far - it's time to wake up.
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
egmont rapids - thanks
egmont rapids, thanks for the hard work you have done to keep us abreast of the corruption and mismanagement we find in our governments. The readers of The Tyee are well-served by your voluntary efforts.
The Liberal media monitors (and the like) bought and paid for though our tax dollars make trying to be just an ordinary citizen who wants some truth in what he reads difficult. I believe it is insane for us to have to pay these staff propagandists for lying to us day in and day out. I doubt there are many left who consider the CanWest rags unbiased. It is shameful that the provincial spin-doctors come here to publish lies, and half truths. Though they freely spread BS, it is a rare thing when one of them washes themselves clean on any topic and admits that he or she has spread false information.
realisticman
3 years ago
A Red Herring
If it's as corrupt as you claim then why didn't Gordon Campbell force the City of Vancouver to give Marathon the Village project?
Isn't that what's being discussed here?
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Thanks SIG and others for the kind words
I do this for the common good of all average BCers.
My personal battle is with WORKSAFE BC
Gordon Campbell corrupted WCB in 2002--3 months after I was permanatly injured/I have survived several predictions/assesments of my death!
The crimes of WCB are of a scale none of you could imagine.
I will fight on,I will win my BC supreme court battle,thousands of people are in the same boat as I.
I fortunatly have had the backing of a tight knit family,thousands of others haven`t!
Nobody has had the courage to expose the "criminal" activities of WORKSAFE BC
I now have a small but vocal radio following.
CKNW (BILL GOOD) is Liberal and as biased as it gets but he gives me air time twice a week, on the cutting ledge and on the monday morning quarterback.
I have met people all over the province who have shook my hand for my radio/comments and questions.
I hope I am making a diffrence.
I would also like to say that I admire and commend many of you--G west,Skywalker,Sig,the departed skookum,Frank,Lynn inspires me,Big Ed Deak shines a ray of eternal hope! There are dozens more who I know I left out,hats off to all of them.
I especially admire Rafe for his lifetime battle to save salmon and water,the man has lost plenty in his life from freinds to finances but it never was enough to deter Rafe from "Fighting the good fight"
I also a thumbs up to the tyee for allowing(and putting up with me) this forum to occur!
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Sig--you have to read this
You are so right,another free speaking journalist bites the dust,anyone who speaks too loud against the system gets the chop!
Critical thought,critical minds,free thinkers are dead in this town.
Good luck to MR. Berner
http://thebernermonologues.blogspot.com/2008/11/my-province-column.html
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
Mr. Berner
Yes, good luck to Mr. Berner.
More of the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Mills_(publisher)
Story about CanWest meddling with truth:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=aU99g4T6ATqo&refer=canada
CanWest stock is now trading at $.91
The 52 week high: $7.52
This is down considerably from the $14-$16 range they traded at 3 years ago. I hope the Aspers lose it all: to me, they have not proven to be worthy of the public's trust. I believe they abuse their power.
egmont rapids
3 years ago
The death of Canadian journalism
Here is the state of affairs with journalism,especially in BC
http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/73/The_Death_of_Canadian_Journalism.html
egmont rapids
3 years ago
I Fogot one
I love your stuff too ZALM(first class)
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Check out this blog
This writer put the story together far more succintly then I could of!
I must admit though,he/or she got the Betty Krawczyk story form my post at HarveY Oberfeld site!
The only credit I want is charges laid and people voted out!
http://westcoastindienews.blogspot.com/2008/11/something-stinks-in-vancouver-follow.html
egmont rapids
3 years ago
Egmont rapids/Grant g lets just say we are one
http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/?p=118
Check the comments
realisticman
3 years ago
I completely agree
http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/?p=119
realisticman
3 years ago
Good to SEE...
...both ex-mayors Philip Owen (NPA) and Larry Campbell (COPE/VISION) coming out for a joint press conference and the incumbent, Sullivan, all come out today criticizing the grandstanding of Gregor Robertson - the VISION candidate for mayor.
This might well come back to bite him, just as his Transit fine did.
G West
3 years ago
Oh yeah
Can you imagine the fuss Owen and Campbell and Sullivan would have made if the shoe were on the other foot?
Give your head a shake - they're meant to do the public's business and instead they're spending all their efforts trying to cover each other's asses and pass the blame off on someone else.
They kind of remind me of Michelangelo's Last Judgment behind the altar in the Sistine Chapel - you know the lower third, right hand side just above the rowboat on the River Styx, where the sinners are trying desperately to cover their nakedness.
As Anton Chekhov puts it: When I have wanted to understand somebody or myself I have considered, not the actions, in which everything is relative, but the desires.
"Tell me what you want, and I will tell you what manner of man you are."
NO RISK TO TAXPAYERS - with this kind of person in charge there is no longer any public interest - there is only self-interest.
realisticman
3 years ago
Three Wise Men-all ex Mayors
I was more drawn to Michaelangelo's painting of the Three Wise Men, you know, the one hanging in the Medici Palace in Florence.
Owen, L. Campbell and Sullivan are far more inspiring and unquestionably more knowledgeable than a mere campaigning soft-drinks salesman/pretender named Gregor Robertson. The former also have nothing to prove and that selflessness is appealing.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
Bertrand Russell
zalm
3 years ago
Confidentiality
"The questions are really this:
Why did the VISION co-chair and councilors vote for this?"
Who says they did? The City of Vancouver Standing Committee meetings on Services and Budgets (Thursday mornings) frequently go in camera as they almost certainly would have done on such a morning. Anyone caught breaching that confidentiality would be hard pressed to stay out of jail, let alone in office. The only exceptions are budget decisions which are brought out for motions of concurrence to the Committee of the Whole (ie the regular council meeting.)
Yet, somehow R'man knows that the Vision councillors voted for this.
Anyone following Allen Garr's writings in the Vancouver Courier would know that all agendas and decisions for not only Council Meetings but also Standing Committee meetings were set in Sullivan's office with his Chief of Staff Daniel Fontaine the day of, or prior to, the meeting. Vision, with only 5 out of 11 votes, would have no chance of affecting the outcome regardless of their vote.
This explains the frequent caricature of Ladner as a Sullivan toady without the spine God gave a hamster.
So.... who breached confidentiality?
zalm
3 years ago
SharingisGood
Thanks for your thoughts on Richmond's oval, SIG.
Another thought to remember is that cities and councils maintain a stock of property (as in Vancouver's case, a Property Endowment Fund) in order to purchase community amenities that are specified as complying with community goals.
No community uses its property endowment fund to meet operational costs.
Except Richmond. There is no community plan requiring more ice surface especially in North Richmond. There is no community plan or council motion mandating participation in sporting events that require new single-purpose facilities be built. And there is no community approval to liquidate part of the heritage of all the people of Richmond - the land bank still owned by the City of Richmond - in order to do this. It was a council decision taken against the advice of a very few citizens who understood the tragedy they were witnessing.
Vancouver's property endowment fund is expected to provide funds for restoration of city-owned properties and its heritage, land for community amenities such as future schools and community centres, but NOT income for the same.
It appears Richmond's mandate is to provide a hall for a three-week party, after which it will sit empty until funds are found to convert it for a more useful purpose. Looks to me like Raymond's remortgaging his house so he can pay off his bill at the Cheers' bar.
G West
3 years ago
Wise men?
Hardly!
I can't quite get the image of two guys - one who hasn't been mayor of the place for three years and the other for twice as long - showing up to support a lame duck mayor called 'smilin' Sammy who couldn't even gain the nomination of his own party. Some WISE men!
Wise guys more like.
I think you should look at that painting again, the one called The Last Judgment... because I have a feeling the people of Vancouver are going to choose a soft drink salesman for their mayor.
And it's pretty obvious why.
zalm
3 years ago
I betcha
This is what Estelle Lo was so worried about.
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20061102/documents/csb2.pdf
Look at the assumptions!
"This report indicates that the financial position of the PEF is about 30% better than the $50 million that Council has established as a long term objective. However, the City Manager cautions that there are considerable uncertainties about future revenues and expenditures that may not have been captured in the pro forma and that will likely erode this position as we move forward. In addition, Council did not remove the 1/3 modest market housing requirement in sub-area 1A and 3A which leaves a significant unfunded liability in future phases."
The City sold the whole site 2A to Millennium for $205 a sq ft. but only took $29 million as a deposit with the balance of $164 million to be paid after the Games in 2010.
So we're into it for $164 million in deferred receipts from Millennium, $26 million that the City had to "compensate" the Property Endowment Fund for providing 26 acres for a public park, $64 million in site cleanup costs and foreshore stabilization, $35 million in land assembly and contamination studies. Now we add another $100 million to save Millennium's butt. $389 million - half the city's budget!
All this is set against the $217 million in development income that the property endowment fund expects to earn.
And when you look at the end of the rationale for the proforma update, you see that Council was told in 2005 that they would only be exposing Vancouver taxpayers to a total of $4 million in costs!
LOL!
There's a reason why developers go broke at twice the rate of other companies, even after allowing 25-40% for profit in good markets.
zalm
3 years ago
Millennium
...or Armeco, as they are internationally known, seems to have a checkered history. My father, who sat on the Property Assessment Review Panel with Malek's father's chief pilot in the 1980s and 1990s heard lots of interesting stories about the family from him, ones that need to be told out in public.
The family, close friends of the Shah, can never go back to Iran. As builders with close links to the Shah, they were aware of his impending doom, and constructed their business (partly in Tehran, partly in Paris, so as to load up the debt on the Tehran properties and to make the French ones debt-free. When their Iranian assets were seized, they lost nothing.
Hmmmm..... and the Park Royal property (West Van) is stalled dead for lack of funding (not workers as they have been saying) in violation of their development permit. And the Nanaimo project is in the dumper....
What's the chance that Armeco's properties world-wide are now being paid off with $100 million of City funds? Will the family need another chief pilot soon?
zalm
3 years ago
Egmont rapids
You forgot nothing. You've named some pretty august company and you should leave me out of it as an infrequent dilettante and a dabbler.
I, on the other hand, enjoy your constant pin-pricks. Your capacious memory for BC Fiberal malfeasance astounds and amuses me tremendously. The NDP could never afford to pay union scale for work of your quality. Keep up the good work!
Dessident
3 years ago
Free Money!
Perhaps the City of Vancouver should hold a lien against this $100M 'loan' to the contractor. You know, a stake in this investment...say, 25-50%? Just to keep things real, of course.
What happens if this company goes bankrupt? Are those funds protected by the company? Of course not. Time for the public to cover their butts (and tax dollars) from these leeches.
zalm
3 years ago
Here's a project for you, R'man
You snipped:
[snip]
"Community Benefits
The City of Richmond chose to bid for the rights to the Oval after identifying the potential to advance its well established community vision and livability objectives while at the same time playing a significant role in the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. The community benefits of the Richmond Olympic Oval will be to:
* accelerate delivery of the City’s long-stated goals for upgrading and expanding its complement of sports facilities;...
...more bumpf follows....
Maybe you can find where it says in Richmond's Parks, Recreation and Cultural Capital Plan and Visioning Process from 2003-4 that Richmond should invest twice its annual parks budget in a massively expensive and unusable ice arena located in only one of the twelve districts in Richmond, simply because the feds and province were willing to kick in $60 million. Maybe you can find where this Olympic arena achieves a single one of those benefits commensurate with the Vision and Capital Plan.
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/update_vol_58122.pdf
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/1430_OpenHouseBoards8042.pdf
They've a term for this in the Crown Counsel's office - it's called "bait and switch". And it's illegal.
If I were a Richmond taxpayer, I'd be pretty pissed that Ditchmond "ditched" their visioning process and 10-year capital plan on a whim.
But then, like the Biblical man who built his foundation on sand [Mt 7:26], I've never been too impressed with Ditchmond voters....
zalm
3 years ago
Dessident
"Perhaps the City of Vancouver should hold a lien against this $100M 'loan' to the contractor."
Regretfully, only the owner of an improvement can file a lien, and only within 30 days of when the job is done. This whole job might not get done. And Millennium is the owner of the improvement, so they can hardly be expected to file a lien against themselves.
After all, the whole point is that there won't be any money to pay the City, or else there would be money to finish the project.
The problem is that the City might end up with a half-finished project and no way to finish it to make is saleable in order to recoup its investment. And Vancouver ends up with a black hole on False Creek. The province can't step in and finish the project as a public works project because that's against the City's charter.
So Millennium has to finish the project, or the Olympics are screwed.
Open your wallets wider!
realisticman
3 years ago
zalm...
quote:
"The questions are really this:
Why did the VISION co-chair and councilors vote for this?"
Who says they did?"
It's been mentioned, and acknowledged, repeatedly that there was a unanimous vote in favour. There's a link in Monte Paulsen's story above to:
"November 6, 2008
City issues statement re: financing of Olympic Village
The financial and schedule risks assumed by the City with respect to the Olympic Village remain unchanged. The City is conducting business related to Southeast False Creek and the Olympic Village pursuant to a unanimous Council mandate."
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/newsreleases2008/NRolympicstatement.htm
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
Zalm, Wordsmith
Zalm,
Your comments on the Oval and the Millenium progect are eloquent! Readers of The Tyee are beyond fortunate to have regular inputs of your truthful and timely prose. They Tyee should pay you an honourarium and/or (though you still live) name a prize for you. Good writing and good informing!
realisticman
3 years ago
zalm...
The Oval is located close to the almost completed Skytrain. Close to bus transit too. That's where it should be. As for, "a massively expensive and unusable ice arena located in only one of the twelve districts in Richmond", this will be far from unusable but rather multi-use. This has been a opportunity for Richmond to make good community use of unused land that it had acquired over the years. The entire area is being developed with residential buildings, transit and green spaces along, what was, dusty old defunct light-industrial land given over to bramble bushes and cotton-wood trees. This land is magnificently situated along the river. This area is rapidly becoming an area for living, sports & cultural activities, walking and cycling along the riverside, rowing facilities, etc. All anchored by the Oval.
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/Oval_Powerpoint_Presentation_-_Dec_200615811.pdf
"Main Activity Area
The main activity area will an indoor sports field house divided into three sections: ice, court and turf. The ice section will be home to two Olympic-sized ice rinks. The court section will be a hardwood surface paying area capable of hosting a wide variety of sports, while the turf section will have a rubberized turf surface that will be home to an indoor running track and other sport uses. The main activity area will be convertible to different configurations that allow the facility to be used for a flexible variety of ice and dry sports as demand warrants, including short and long track speed skating.
The Oval’s provision for a major indoor sports field house will provide the first facility of its kind in British Columbia. The field house will provide a critically-needed competition and training space. Sport BC has long identified the pressing need for a major indoor field house within the Greater Vancouver area. The field house will be home to a wide variety of indoor sport training and competition uses, including athletics (track and field), court and turf sports, martial arts and other indoor sports."
G West
3 years ago
That bumpf
Is a little long in the tooth and out of date, wouldn't you say?
zalm
3 years ago
Fnif
"As for, "a massively expensive and unusable ice arena located in only one of the twelve districts in Richmond", this will be far from unusable but rather multi-use. This has been a opportunity for Richmond to make good community use of unused land that it had acquired over the years."
So, you can't find it in Richmond's official community visioning plan either eh? I thought not.
Must be tough keeping your spirits up with all these truths coming out. Better go out for a walk around that oval.
Oh, and stop by and see if they've managed to get the roof that they can't get a warranty on to stop leaking yet.
realisticman
3 years ago
der zalm
You just can't accept that this is a spectacular multi-use facility, can you? Did you prefer to go blackberry picking there? Would you have rather the city just leave the land to rot? Or, are you from Burnaby and still peeved?
zalm
3 years ago
Confidentiality, more or less
"November 6, 2008
City issues statement re: financing of Olympic Village
The financial and schedule risks assumed by the City with respect to the Olympic Village remain unchanged. The City is conducting business related to Southeast False Creek and the Olympic Village pursuant to a unanimous Council mandate."
Yes... released AFTER Ladner opened his yap to breach confidentiality to save his own political skin.
http://www.canada.com/vancouvercourier/news/opinion/story.html?id=e56ac907-fea2-4f19-b748-4b46192bc175
zalm
3 years ago
Land doesn't rot
Don't be ignorant. City taxpayers voted for a master plan that council breached on a whim, financing it with the land legacy of future generations and letting future taxpayers in for a massive reconstruction and maintenance bill. You have nothing to argue with so you fall back on ad hominem arguments.
Conversation over.