The guy must be pretty dim

The guy must be pretty dim if he figures his family gained nothing in the deals he made. The origional owner of the ALR land wanted to subdivie keeping two acres for a family house. No way its ALR. So Les buys it and guess what, it was removed from the reserve, subdivided and he make a fairly large amount of money. Nie work if you can get it. One hopes the cops don't keep us in suspence much longer. and to give the chief cop job to Dingdong is insulting to us all. But then again the folks were dumb enough to elect such slugs and their boss.

In a normal consistent world.

We would see BCTV taking a camera shot of him through his kitchen window and then every night for months we would have a recap of the story in minute detail and with all the speculation such a thing deserves. But he never had a deck built and he isn't NDP so I guess we won't see this unfold in the normal way. It will be interesting to watch.

Hey, no comments...

Our right-wing friends working a long shift at the drive-thru tonight?

C'mon boys, belly up to the bar and defend old Les here.

A fitting end.........

.......to [COMMENT REMOVED FOR LEGAL CONCERNS. -MODERATOR.] Van Dongen as Solicitor General, well now the blind is really leading the blind.

Has Campbell's government really sunk that low? When will BCTV be taking the cameras to Gordo's house.

Les is more?

It appears on the surface that the pomposity that Les displays in his look and manner also applies to his land deals.

I have always wondered how he ever received one (other than personal) vote, let alone the majority it takes to win any election.

What gripes me is the lavish pension he'll receive for his MLA service - however, at least I don't have to move to avoid his provincial representation - that is - if the voters finally wake up and reject him - which, in itself, would surprise me!

ALC APPROVAL WAS NEEDED

"It's outrageous that municipal politicians are permitted to engage in and profit from land transactions when their Councils have the power to bestow or withhold enormous windfall profits through rezoning decisions. How on earth do we expect them to separate personal interest from the public interest in such instances?"

In this instance, the local Chilliwack Council would have had to recommend an exclusion to the Agricultural Land Commission, but it's the ALC that actually allows the exclusion. The municipal recommendation is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the ALC to allow an exclusion from the ALR.

By the time of the exclusion it looks like John Les was no longer on the municipal council, and even if he was, he has at most one vote and surely would not have voted on an rezoning of a property he owned. If one wants to speculate about behind the scenes horse trading among council members that's another issue.

To try to stop this kind of thing completely would be impossible unless people were excluded from owning any real property in the municipality in which they sought election to council. Public, bureaucratic and press vigilance are the appropriate safeguards to prevent local councillors from rezoning properties to their own or family or friend's benefit. I was shocked yesterday to read a news story reporting on local reactions in Chilliwack. One woman interviewed, who gave her occupation as home maker, stated her total admiration for Les as a local stalwart made good in Victoria. She did not want police officers or reporters shining any lights where they don't belong.

From what appears in the article it looks like the more questionable action was to refuse to allow the previous owner in obtaining an exclusion and strata subdivision plan. Then purchasing the property from him and going ahead with that very sequence of events. Did Mayor John Les vote in council on the motions to approve an application to the ALC for an exclusion?

Reminder...

In this forum, please do not imply someone is guilty of a crime unless that person has been charged and convicted in a court of law. Doing so is unfair to the person in question and puts The Tyee at risk.

Thanks,

Geoff.

I guess Geff, folks get a

I guess Geff, folks get a bit carried away, or get angry when they figure they see friends of friends get things done that nobody else can even dream of having done for themselves. Some guy in the Abottsford area had some land and tried to get it split so he could keep two acres for the family, and sell the rest to have some cash for his old age. No can do.Its ALR. John Les's numbered company bought it and surprise, surprise it started growing houses. Similar events in and around the valley. Nobody is claiming he is or is not a crook. They simply wonder how it works for some and not others? It's getting common to see Real Estate adds of 5 to 10 acres of ALR lands being sold.Small busineeses like organic or flower growers operate on very small holding. When such pieces are in places like North Saanich or anywhere around the village of Victoria most folks start to wonder, How can this be? The price of land here is huge per acre. 800.000 per care is not uncommon.
So it's by by for the little guys.

Are the buyers simply very rich or is something going on now the ALR land rules seem to be watered down. The real estate guys never give up and with the developers seem to have a pretty effective lobby. Now should any one attempt to sue you for what I write, well you are in the business of distributing folks ideas. I do realize you are maybe a bit gun shy having the lawyers after you for some story about a newspaper removing a couple of staff. If you are afraid of conflicting views maybe we are reading the wrong web site. Wasn't it a US Presidnet who said" I am not a crook" it took awhile to get rid of him. People are waiting to hear what the horsemen have to say about the ex minister.If he is cleared so be it. If not, well he can do the Nixon bit.

Oldest Profession!

"There are only two jobs in the world you need absolutely no qualifications to do: used car salesman and politician."

Also being a Mom or Dad!

Or prostitute (closer to a politician perhaps?!)!

Again..read my last post RE: ALR

Is Les dirty with ALR?

That is a good question. If he got caught on some other real estate matter is not the question.

Here is the question for all of the Fraser Valley and the news hounds;

Does John Les, or do the Ministers of the Liberal government that John Les is a member know of ready-mix concrete being poured in the province of B.C. that is below specification.

Does a "John Les" a Minister of the Liberal government of B.C. and do the RCMP of B.C. "E" division have or had knowledge of information on ready-mix concrete being delivered and poured that is below specified strength and whose stuctural strength and integrity did not meet engineering specifications and quality and upon delivery had been falsely represented by the manufacturer?

Does the RCMP "E" Division or a Minister of the Liberal governemnt have knowledge of this?

Well...I am waiting...?

Is it a job?

Freebear, being a single parent, and speaking from experience can being a parent actually be called a job? Since you don't get paid for it, it is more like and internship.

Enquiring Minds WANT TO KNOW

"Is there an enquiring mind left in the BC news media"

Let's give them a test right here and now;

"There was a well sanctioned and well recognized climate of criminal
activity, physical and mental abuse at -- the ready-mix plant -- when I worked there. I saw marked RCMP police cars in the yard many times. I know RCMP were making many enquiries into the -- ready-mix plant -- activities, I talked to an RCMP constable while he was working at observing--the ready-mix plant -- trucks while they were on the road.

I also know that -- the ready-mix plant -- misrepresented and created false and misleading weights/measures on their sales bills to customers. They fraudulently represented the quality and quantity of their ready-mix when I worked there.

I also know -- the ready-mix plant --trucks have been involved in more than just the one accident that resulted in a death. They were involved in dozens of accidents with more than one resulting in death".

Which B.C. Liberal Minister knew about this situation and what are they doing?

And, which Canwest rags and news rooms are working on this story?

Enquiring minds want to know.

What's this concrete angle?

I am getting curious about ThePosse's concrete musings. I would really like him to come out and tell us what this is all about.

Taken advantge of

You would think, when it comes to what your home sits on, that which your condo is constructed of, that which supports your whole building and that which your very life counts on, the BC government would have at least made sure it was up to spec. You would think they monitored concrete strength.

You would think that even if your condo leaked, your roof dripped or your copper pipes corroded your foundation would be safe.

Think again.

When you walk on it every day, when you see it surrounding you every day, when you live inside it and are surrounded by it day and night, everywhere you go, you would think someone should have asked what it was made of and if people had lied about it.

At least you would think, someone should have asked.

For heaven sake, Tyee, call the cops!!

Dear Tyee Moderator:

Often in the past we've watched helplessly while good people got banned off this web-site for reasons such as not speaking politely.

But today, we are seeing a serious statement of criminal allegations ... and it's as if nothing had happened.

Mr Moderator: it looks as if The Posse has tried to blow the whistle on some basic industrial wrongdoing in B.C.

So are you simply going to ignore that? Or ... what?

What's the next step in the great Tyee Master Plan?

BC Mary

Thanks Mary!

I believe this matter is of concern to others as well as myself. This matter has been brought to the attention of several MP's and MLA's and I can tell you, you have a right to be concerned BC Mary.

Most of us have gotten used to the fact that prior to a Premiere with a U.S. mugshot there were three that quit over scandal, only the one with the U.S. mugshot got to stay on while his scandals swirled around him.

So how can he do that?

We have all grown accustom to the fact our BC government is known for scandal,is known for police investigations, is known for lying, are known for corruption,and are known for taking every opportunity to stick it to the common working man while they flaunt the law, while the RCMP pick which offices they raid and whose phones they tap.

In this the case of the ready-mix, people's houses and very lives rest on concrete. Their children's futures and the safety of the community as a whole rest on concrete.

If government and politicans are willing to ignore what the community rests on and or take advantage of it,or turn their back on it, then a line has been crossed.

I tipped off V. Palmer the best I could today over this. John Les and the ALR? Losing more agricultural land to friends of the Liberals? The reason why this is happening is because with the NDP and the Liberals we have a divide and conquer approach.

We need to hold the party that's in power accountable to the very letter of the law right up to prison sentences. That is the solution to the NDP and Liberal divide.

Once the construction boom subsides, once the recession hits, once the commodity prices recede, once the unemployment increases,and once the housing prices level off, THAT will not be the time to call for a criminal investigation into the BC government and it's policing. The time is now.

It's not a matter anymore of voting NDP or Liberal in this province, it's not a matter of who has the best policies. It's a matter of holding those who are responsible accountable to the law.

I moved from a Liberal held riding with a Liberal MLA to an NDP held riding. Both parties know about the ready-mix. I made sure of that. Both parties are not willing to hold anyone accountable.Neither the NDP nor the Liberals have any intention of monitoring the quality, intergrity or the truth behind what your house and community rests on.

When the earthquake hits, and it will, stastics and geology prove it will, you can remember that both the NDP and the Liberals knew about this ready-mix, that there were racial and bigotry issues involved and that charges should be laid.

I can prove that.

To Fogotwillingate

Your question;

"So, did connected Chilliwack persons deny re-zoning in order to induce a sale, for the purpose of securing later re-zoning to their personal advantage?"

In order for this question to lead to a successful prosecution, most everyone deemed "connected" would have to come out together to support the accusation, leaving them open to prosecution themselves. How willing do you think they are to fall on their own swords?

Clarifications on commenting policy

There seems to be some confusion, as raised by BC Mary and others, about why a Tyee moderator would edit or eventually ban a commenter.

You are always welcome to review our comments code of conduct, found under the commenting window.

But to clarify here:

We do not ban 'good people who have been impolite.' We edit comments to remove racist, sexist, personally insulting and bullying comments, as well as any we deem puts the Tyee at risk of libel. If, as has happened in a few cases, the commenter persists in making such comments, we have no choice but to block them.

Regarding making criminal allegations in a post. Allegations that no not name or otherwise identify a specific person or firm are different from ones that do identify and accuse a specific person or firm. In the latter case, if The Tyee hasn't done its own research and reporting to support raising those allegations, we can't stand behind them and therefore have to remove them in order to protect ourselves legally. That's just the way it is in Canada at this moment in media law.

I would also like to reiterate Geoff's reminder above. Just because a person is under investigation does not mean The Tyee, or people who comment on this site, can declare or clearly imply that the person is guilty. If you do, you will be edited to protect The Tyee legally.

Thanks for understanding.

Posse, send us your info

The Tyee would be interested in what you know about a possible scandal related to concrete. Please send an email to

Anyone else with story leads are invited to do the same.

Thanks

The Story...

As reported above by Lynn and in many of my recent posts. Food crisis upon us. I applaud the Tyee for stories like the 100 mile diet, as we do need to educate ourselves of the politics of food. What exactly is Monsanto up to? Cargil, Dow and the other corporate monsters? Why is 80% of world agriculture production and distribution controlled by 4 or 5 multinationals? For the good of the people? Tell me agian why GMO crops are good for anyone but Monsanto by turning self sufficient farmers into annual paying customers? It's sick and it's going to get sicker. We are what we eat, and were losing control of what we eat. Where it's grown, how it's grown and the traditonal way of farming, our only true path to self sufficiency is being stripped away. Nice going neo-cons. I'll see you in hell you sons of bitches!

greedy business?

The allegations about inferior concrete disturbs me!
We have seen enough bridges etc. collapse all over the world, and in most cases it has been decucted that the cause was inferior concrete!
The problem is of course that by the time a disaster happens the people who made that extra profit are long since gone.
Perhaps we need more controls?
What a concept, a society that cannot trust its own business leaders!
But of course that is the sector where our governemnt leaders come from as well!

Good scoop

Couldn’t happen to a better fellow. Brought a smile to my face.
He was a horrible mayor and Chilliwack is full of stories ripe for the picking.
Of interest now is what was possibly Les’s greatest purchase while mayor - a $7 million dollar road that is maybe two blocks long and goes straight up an impossible slope, simply to be the back door and a highway shortcut for two neighbourhoods. The first neighbourhood is now complete with its own school and Less brother involvement is a matter of public record. The second neighbourhood rallied and stalled development. This was after the stretch limo ride with Japanese investors and the sweep of the hand. You know, like God might have done when he finished creating the world, had he been as arrogant.

RE : greedy business?

Canadians are becoming more and more numb to the levels of greed we are seeing in Vancouver and Canada.

Look at the cash amounts involved with Brian Mulroney. Most of us would be almost sympathetic if Karlheinz Schreiber had offered Mulroney $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 cash for what he did. We could see how someone would be tempted by that much cash.

Or how about Chretien and his sponsorship scandal, the actual individual amounts that were paid out were not all that large.

It seems buinesses owners and Canadian politicians are willing to sell-out for tiny dollar amounts. In some cases almost insignificant.

When this ready-mix was hitting the road, even while individual trucks were getting in multiple accidents and there were many accidents, in some people were killed, many politicians and law enforcement agencies had the opportunty to stop the deliveries. The delivieries crossed muncipal boundries.

The concrete was being sold and delivered as measured or weighted amounts e.g. 6 yards, 2 meters.

So when you received the ready-mix upon delivery you figured the amount stated on the bill had been weighted or measured.It also had a strength rating e.g. 32MPa, 25MPa, 20MPa.

Neither the rating nor the quantity was accurate. It was misrepresented because the bill should have said;

"Upon delivery and receipt of this ready-mix you hereby acknowledge this product may be a combination or a mixture of recycled cement and aggregate and/or a mixture of old and new ready-mix and therefore this product may not meet the stated quality, quantity or specified strength"

No one told you that when you bought it, the scumbags wanted your money and didn't care if you got crushed at some future date when it failed in an earthquake.

They only wanted your money, they didn't care in the slightest if they killed on the road with one their trucks or at some future date when the concrete failed.

ThePosse

You have already stated your case and gotten our attention, including that of the TYEE.

You were asked by the moderator to submit your info so that that they might consider it for a story.

If you have not done so, you are wasting everyone's time with your vague, dark accusatios.

Good point ME2

Furthermore, in any multi-storey application in reinforced concrete there are mandated tests of both slump and 28-day strength - under the watchful eye of a professional engineer.

If those tests weren't done...well, that would certainly be a problem.

Not to say that ThePosse may not have a valid point about small batch redimix deliveries - but there has to be a lot more evidence to make even that case, in my view.

John Les as BC top cop

This thread is the John Les thread and as BC's top cop he should have been aware if any concrete was being fraudulently represented or was "a combination or a mixture of recycled cement and aggregate and/or a mixture of old and new ready-mix and therefore this product may not meet the stated quality, quantity or specified strength"

"Furthermore, in any multi-storey application in reinforced concrete there are mandated tests of both slump and 28-day strength - under the watchful eye of a professional engineer."

You have obviously never been on a "multi-storey application in reinforced concrete" pour.

As it stands,it is impossible to have concrete testers taking ready-mix concrete samples and conducting slump tests and 28-day strength samples in Metro Vancouver on all the "multi-storey application in reinforced concrete" pours and loads in one day never mind every day.

Do you have any idea how many truck loads of concrete get poured every day in Vancouver without a single slump or 28-strength test being taken?

Do you?

BTW, you only mentioned the multi-storey applications, how about water-pipeline supports, pilings, suspended slabs, retaining walls and foundations, etc etc.

You have totaly misrepresented concrete testing.

Only a very very samll percentage of loads get tested. The vast majority of ready-mix does not get tested. And even if one load gets rejected, there are 20 more loads right behind it, so it's a moot point.

If none of you believe me ask Don Davies.
Ask him what percentage of ready-mix loads get tested.

http://www.dondavies.ca/indexsub.shtml

Ask John Les and ask Don Davies and ask Carol James. Ask Olga Ilich too.

Ask all the above who poured "a combination or a mixture of recycled cement and aggregate and/or a mixture of old and new ready-mix and therefore this product may not meet the stated quality, quantity or specified strength"

Don't take my word for it ASK THEM FOR YOUR SELF.

On any job I've been involved in

There has been a statistically representative series of samples taken for testing on a daily basis. And, when that wasn't done, cores were cut later and tested in the lab.

If what you're saying is true - and I won't suggest it isn't (I’m talking about my own personal experience) - then it seems to me some professional engineers are playing with significant liability - not to mention the public's safety and their duty as consultants and designers.

I think, if you have facts to support your assertions, that you should contact an editor here at Tyee - as David suggested above.

In other words, thePosse

I'm not disagreeing with you - nor am I criticizing - I'm just saying that what I wrote reflects my experience...obviously not yours.

However, if you have real, verifiable evidence to support your claims - and I'll assume you do - then I think you need to take another step.

IN fact, please do.

ThePosse

The link you offered contains no useful information about your assertions, and your last post offers nothing new, either.

Thus I trust GWest's explanations more than yours, and have come to the conclusion that you are just trolling.