- Ms Kaye is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Mary Carlisle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Prem Gill is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nancy Flight is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Justin Everett is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- John Westover is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nora Etches is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Edward Henderson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Bharadwaj Chandramouli is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Dean Chatterson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Marius Scurtescu is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Robert Parkes is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- James Murton is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Susan Doyle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Vincent Strgar is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Helen Spiegelman is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Subir Guin is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Kimball Finigan is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Joanne Manley is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- David Leach is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
Audit Finds Problems with How BC Libs Do Business
Most big contracts lack cost-benefit analysis.
NDP's Kwan: 'Shocking'
During the 2005-2006 fiscal year, the B.C. government awarded no fewer than 24,000 contracts, worth a total of $4 billion.
Did taxpayers get their money's worth for every single one?
Quite sensibly, before taking steps to find a vendor for a service contract worth more than $100,000, the ministry in question must provide a cost-benefit justification, a requirement that is laid down in the government's rule book for letting contracts.
This justification must compare, where appropriate, "the cost of contracting out with the cost of providing the service in-house if the resources were available."
However, a new Finance Ministry report suggests that such an analysis is being done for less than half of the $100,000-plus contracts. (The government's phrase for the purchase of goods, services and construction is "procurement.")
As the "Report on 2006 Cross Government Procurement Review" states, such an analysis "should reveal whether the expected benefits of the contract outweigh the estimated costs, both financial and non-financial; and whether the service could be provided more economically in-house."
For the audit, the ministry studied a cross-government sample of 85 contracts that were in place from January to October 2005, involving 18 government ministries and agencies.
Missing analyses
On March 7, a leaked draft copy of the report on the audit, which was conducted by the office of the comptroller general's internal audit and advisory services branch, was provided to The Tyee by the NDP opposition. Since then, the government has posted it online.
The report shows that the government's procurement procedures have improved over the last two years, as indicated, among other factors, by the proportion of contracts that do include the required cost-benefit analysis.
But the fact that for more than half of the large contracts there was no such analysis raises questions about whether many of the contracts should have been awarded in the first place.
The missing analyses worry the NDP's Jenny Kwan.
"For a government that is supposed to be good managers, my question to them is: how could the minister explain that so many of the contracts lack a cost-benefit analysis?" Kwan says, speaking in an interview. "I find that incredibly shocking."
No-tender contracts
When they were in opposition, the Liberals attacked the NDP government's awarding --without competitive bidding -- of communications contracts to party favourite Now Communications Ltd.
On April 10, 2000, the Liberals' view of the issue was summed up in the legislature by now-economic development minister Colin Hansen: "The question has to be asked by every British Columbian: how much money could have been spent on health care and education in this province if it had not been wasted on contracts that were not open in terms of their tendering..."
Subsequently, in their New Era document, containing the Liberals' 2001 election platform, the party promised that within 90 days of taking office it would take steps to "[r]estore open tendering on government contracts to allow fair competition for businesses and provide better value to taxpayers."
After winning the May 2001 election, the Liberals quickly had second thoughts. In fact, just weeks later they handed out a contract, without calling for tenders, to a favourite Liberal party company, Western Pro Show Rentals Ltd.
In fact, the new government could justify it: There was an "emergency," since it was too late to call for competitive bidding to produce the swearing-in ceremony for the new cabinet.
The Liberals hadn't mentioned during the campaign that there would be the odd exception or two to the ban on such "direct awards," as they're called.
According to the government's rule book for tendering, it is also legitimate to award a contract directly if open tendering would interfere with security or health, when there is only one qualified contractor, or when open bidding would threaten government confidentiality, cause economic disruption or be "contrary to the public interest."
'Not consistent with policy'
But according to the latest audit report, two of the more common reasons that ministries cited for making direct awards are "not consistent with policy." These were that the contractor "has been used before with good results" and that there wasn't enough time, but it wasn't an emergency.
In connection with the improperly handled untendered contracts, Jenny Kwan, who chairs the opposition caucus, asks: "How much were they worth, and why was longstanding government policy violated?"
Adds Kwan: "Gordon Campbell, when he was in opposition, railed against this kind of violation of government policy, yet here they are in government, engaging in exactly that kind of practice."
Of the sample examined by the auditors, one in four untendered contracts broke the rules.
Taking a cue from Hansen, one might ask: how much money could have been spent on health care and education in B.C. if it had not been wasted on contracts not put out to tender?
Putting government at risk
The auditors found other kinds of problems among the contracts they examined, and some of the problems may be putting the government in legal jeopardy.
For the contracts that were put out for competitive bidding, 15 per cent did not contain sufficient documentation to justify the award, says the report. (This is an improvement from 37 per cent the previous year.)
For one $600,000 contract, the proposals may not have been "appropriately evaluated," it says.
"The ministry has subsequently reviewed its project and contract management processes, implemented stronger oversight and improved the segregation of duties over these processes," according to the report, which did not include other details of the contract or the ministry concerned.
Lax documentation could be a legal hazard for the government, the report suggests: "Documentation of the selection process is good business practice and could also be valuable for dispute resolution (including possible litigation)."
In all, though they found that things had improved over the previous year, the auditors report that in one-third of contracts awarded, "compliance improvements" were required.
In other words, those contracts break the government's own rules for handing out contracts.
As the report notes, this rule-breaking "puts at risk" the government's ability to provide good value for taxpayers, to provide fair and open access for government work to businesses, and to help deliver government programs to the public.
"In addition," warns the report, "non-compliance places government at risk from the subsequent potential consequences of litigation by unsuccessful proponents, and retaliatory action from other jurisdictions under provisions of trade agreements, including the Agreement on Internal Trade."
And, though the report doesn't mention it, just wait till the Trade, Investment and Labour Mobility Agreement with Alberta kicks in, this April Fool's Day.
Related Tyee stories:
- BC Hydro's Amazingly Bad Deal for Ratepayers
- BC's Big Outsourcing Bet
- Big Contracts for BC Liberals' Favorite Image Polisher
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Who Mowed Down the Premier?
- Canada's Economy, Deconstructed (by a 12 year-old)
- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- 'A Gut Feeling'
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- Why Blackberry's Embrace of HTML5 Is Good Karma
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Alberta Fills Pipes with Corrosive Denial
- Does BC Stand for Ban Clotheslines?
- BC biotech company seeks approval for GM apple
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- Tyee Builders Tally: Amazing!
- From Financial Advisor to Occupier
- 'Storage Wars'
- How Our Immune Systems Exaggerate Fear
- Does Simon Fraser University Need a Men's Centre?
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Why Blackberry's Embrace of HTML5 Is Good Karma
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- Death in Remand: A Jail Crammed with Risk
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
69
Login or register to post comments
alive
5 years ago
Predictable
I am getting to like Jenny Kwan!
She is a hard worker, and do not strive for attention as most politicians tend to do.
However she is persistent, exactly what opposition legislators should be.
This is not the first time she has pointed out discprepancies between promises and actual practice in this government.
When is the next election? I can hardly wait!
kl
5 years ago
Why?
Why do the Libs hate British Columbians?
flattax
5 years ago
Hard to repspect anything the NDP has to say
Jenny Kwan. Blaghhhhhh!
She has no credibility. Whatever happened to the fast ferries?
Does anybody actually expect fiscal responsibility on the Left Coast? Taxpayers do not expect it and likely they do not even want it.
kl
5 years ago
Flattax
Flattax, why do you hate British Columbians?
Kam Lee
5 years ago
This is good. Well-done
This is good. Well-done Jenny! Every day we find out more of that criminal's work. Campbell should be in jail. His idea of giving the province away to the big guys, and exacting no good for the province. He and his henchmen, all guilty. Can hardly wait for the Virk, Basi, Virk tale to unfold. Someone will squeal like a pig, outing the convicted drug abuser. Will be interesting to see the connections, go right to gordo. Hope he is in jail come Olympic time
DJT
5 years ago
Open and accountable?
Well, I guess "direct awards" save the government lots of money on "consolation" prizes.
As far as the fast ferries go, I am a "middle of the road" type, but get tired of hearing about it. The fact is, the Libs are doing things that will make the fast ferries look like child's play- they just deny public access to the information, among other tactics. Of course, having full cooperation from CanWest in "keeping a low profile" helps a lot. Doesn't it?
Give it a rest.
G West
5 years ago
Sadly flattax
Apparently true. They voted for this gang.
bob the cat
5 years ago
Faster Ferries
I had a ride on a fast ferry once..I liked it.
The sucker really honked out there! I asked one of the crew how fast we were going..he said we were hitting 36 knots..the boat was loaded optimally..not too heavy ..not too light..water was just right..they really opened her up...honkin` I tell you absolutely honkin`...we had to sit and wait at Horseshoe..we were so early..gave the passengers time to gather themselves...tidy up a bit.
fanshaw
5 years ago
Fiscal responsibility
The promise of fiscal responsibility was just one of the many lies told in order to assure a victory for the Liberals in 2001. How many seats would the truth about BC Rail have cost them?
The whole point in pursuing the "Fudget Budget" case against the NDP was to get a judicial opinion as to how honest a party had to be during an election campaign. The judge said, "Caveat emptor", and election fraud is now legal in BC.
Capitalism
5 years ago
Shocking??
I'm not sure how a) shocking or b) serious this actually is. The purpose of these audits is to find performance improvement areas. Clearly, the government can do better in some areas.
Not a huge surprise to me. I'm not all that concerned by it either.
G West
5 years ago
Cappy
Spoken like a former Arthur AndersEn auditor.
You'd give them a 'pass' eh.
Why am I not surprised?
Just wait until this government passes ignominiously into history and the whole story of their larceny becomes public.
Can I poll you again then?
This, sadly, is just Act I.
JIm
5 years ago
It's funny when BC Ferries
It's funny when BC Ferries went to build new ferries the NDP and the left were screaming about how they should award non-tendered contracts to a BC company regardless of the cost to taxpayers.
I guess the optics of the situation tell you when you should take a principled stand.
Skywalker
5 years ago
Oh Liberal apologists!
I is almost laughable when you hear the liberal apologists now make the most lame excuses for ever mistake and slimy action undertaken by the current government. One NDP guy got a $25 campaign contribution from a company doing a development somewhere and it was all over the news. Having a deck built by a family friend and neighbor rates months and months of media coverage including a court case in which the then Premier was found innocent. Another court case on budgets went a couple of years only to find out that the Judge ruled against the liberal patsy who had taken the action and said she believed the then Finance Minister.
Campbell goes DUI while he is totally pissed and provides major tax relief and changed legislation to benefit people who paid his election thousands. He sells BC Rail after saying he would not do so, squandering hundreds of millions on the olympics and fudging the accounting. It all right with Cappy and flattax cause Campbell bought them as well.
None of the evidence matters.
BC Ferries has probably lost more spin off benefits by having their vessels built in Europe than the Fast Ferries ever cost British Columbians. What has never been dicussed in the media or evn on the Tyee is the options that existed for modifying the fast ferries and still using them. As bob the cat says, they were one hell of a vessel. The only problem was that like the Avro Arrow they were a victim of cheap partisan politics.
Cappy and his bunch of neanderthals will preach their line even after Campbell has peed away three times what the fast ferries ever cost.
Capitalism
5 years ago
Jim
Oh I know. They didn't believe in the tendering process so long as it helped the ferry builders union. Sheer hypocricy, exists on both sides.
I've learned to sort through the stuff that doesn't matter. This doesn't matter. Government contracting is very, very complicated stuff full of rules and protocols. Every once in a while, they won't get followed to a T.
Either way, the NDP was the king of the non-tendered process.
bob the cat
5 years ago
Either way
Well either way as skywalker says they were a hell of a boat..they could boogie despite what Tony Parsons had to say about it..night after night after night on the 6 o`clock news...the film of the fast cat in the distance..and closeups of the little boat banging around at the private W.V. dock ..with the woman screaming hysterically in the background ..night after night...the horror..the horror..too much...too much.
Elliot
5 years ago
at one point during the
at one point during the constructin of the fastcats the ferry board went public to say that they didn't have confidence that the ships would be suitable for these waters. the result? they were fired and replaced by a bunch of ndp union hacks. well done glennie.
rebel
5 years ago
Jenny
Jenny Kwan really proved herself when she and Joy Macphail stood alone against the meanest spirited gang of Liberals that should hang their heads in shame for their treatment of these two women when they would not even grant them opposition status so they could have a decent office or support staff to work out of but they stayed up all night defending the peoples rights against what i call a bunch of jeering thugs. As for the Fast Ferries - that is so old and tired and doesn't measure a drop in the bucket compared to the BILLIONS of dollars that have disappeared from the Lib coffers, supposedly to improve Health Care in this province but when you ask them where is the evidence of all this so called spending there is no credible answer. How can anybody spend that much money and have conditions just get worse and worse? It just doesn't make sense and there is not a thing to show for it. Where are the new MRI's or operating rooms - where are the new beds - or a new hospital - still pie in the sky talk but no concrete results. Something is really wrong. Besides whoever heard of one prov having three or four Health Ministers. We need a huge investigation in this province. We pay taxes for services and end up paying for everything out of pocket because everything is privitized and can not be held to account for the money.
Capitalism
5 years ago
Elliot
I think everybody knows that the former NDP government was comprised of the biggest hacks in political history. There is no doubt about that, which is why there were turfed in all but 2 ridings. This is BC - we have some of the most left (and right) ridings in this whole country. Even Victoria found an excuse to get rid of 'em!
The fast casts was perhaps the biggest boondoggle of all time. $400M (or whatever it is), which when you account for inflation is close to double that - on a bunch of useless boats.
This was driven the the Washingtons and the union leaders. Clark and the NDP felt this was an opportunity to re-invent the wheel and design a boat, which would secure a future for the shipbuilding industry, but more importantly the BC shipbuilding employees.
I'll give him some credit in that he intended well. In reality, it has become the biggest laughing stock in the history of shipbuilding. It was not suitable for our waters, yet alone anyone else's. It was a bumpy, uncomfortable ride and it cost us in more than one way.
The RAV line discounted for inflation is probably only around $800M. We could have build that for twice the price!!!
Beyond that, it has ruined the shipbuilding industry in BC. We have zero credibility anymore. Few foreign governments or companies buy our boats - we are lucky to get a few maintenance contracts. It was a risk - and a miserable one.
I firmly believe that you should never try and reinvent the wheel, unless you are the best! BC should have focused on being a niche player, instead we tried to be an innovater. Simply, there are bigger, better, more advanced ship builders around the world - with competitive advantages and a lot more money!
If this boat would have worked, it would have been developed already by one of the big boys.
It is like the government telling Bombardier to build us some grand commercial airliners and paying them billions to develop it - when, Boeing and Airbus already dominate that area...
It didn't matter, the NDP was all to happy to satisfy its unions, the Washingtons were all too happy to get paid a tonne of money!
In the end, we all lost. And NDP supporters, don't even try and defend this one.
Frank
5 years ago
Fast cats
The fast cats were a great deal compared to what the Libs have done regarding RAV, the Olympics, BC Rail, and so on.
In comparison the fast cats were small potatoes.
But I do admire the overwhelming hypocrisy of the Right in dismissing all their so-called principles of yesteryear and giving the Libs a pass on their current incompetence.
Kudos on even bringing up the fast cats on this thread. Only a true believer would do that.
bob the cat
5 years ago
Frank
Didja manage to take in Pan?
kl
5 years ago
Fast Ferries
The Libs are almost half way through their second term and you guys are still trying to revisit Clark and his fast ferries? How pathetic.
RAV and the Olympics will prove in my opinion to be the biggest boondoggles this province will ever see. On a magnitude of say 2-3 times the fast ferries.
G West
5 years ago
the Washingtons ????
the Washingtons ????
Clarification please my capitalist friend.
maestro
5 years ago
Never UNDERestimate Leftie version of The Peter Principle
You just can't keep a Leftie down.
The NDP ,as we speak, will find some way to " Trump " the Fast Ferrie fiasco.
Any guesses?... they often need help.
PS Maybe give Al ( impeach that damn Oscar ) Gore Canadian Citizenship and run as an MLA ?
seanorr
5 years ago
No time wasted
We promise to end favouritism if we're elected and to celebrate our win we'll throw a party and give the contract to our pals. God, at least wait a couple months before totally contradicting yourself.
alive
5 years ago
in retrospect
Spoken like a true, good ole boy!
All we are good for is to be the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, right?
Clark had the guts to aim for more than the mediocre!
His vision was to train workers and help the industry, while getting needed, new and innovative ships built.
Why things failed can well be ascribed to the industry in general!
Practically every prospect saw it as a cost plus venture and did their best to milk it for all it was worth. All the while stalling and hindering the progress, because it was not their wish to see a NDP government get any credit.
Remember all the "Will the last person leaving BC please turn off the lights" signs?
Those signs symbolized the attitude that Clark had to work against.
The media of course was also then in the pocket of "the good ole boys".
Perhaps in retrospect, one could be honest enough to admit that the fix was in?
About the boats themselves, they were designe to cut the route short, and save time.
The comfort aspect was downplayed, as it should!
It is still silly to serve meals on board, when there are good restaurants on either side; also roadside vendors would have been happy to sell sandwishes to those waiting at the terminals.
The fast ferries cut out the large kitchens and it made sense!
They saved time and that made sense!
Short of building a bridge, that was the smartest move.
Nowadays the entrepenours line up to help the government, and the media is falling over themselves hushing up scandals, what a difference money makes!
Skywalker
5 years ago
Oh it is great to hear the
Oh it is great to hear the same CanWest crap repeated by Elliot and Cappy. The point is that a few fast ferries is nothing compared to the disaster in financial accountability this gang of political thugs has been and any mistakes made in the past pale in comparison to the stuff that goes on now. As I recall it was one of you guys who first raised it here and aside from a few small boats moored in an unsheltered bay bouncing around you can't even get your ammunition dry. Those poor islanders need their docks no matter where they choose to build them. Yeah right!
Be that all as it may You guys just hate anyone who might not buy your version of the NDP and you have an obsession with Clark. You probably resent the fact that none of you are smart enough to work for Jimmie Pattison and if you had a business of your own or a real job you would not be spending you time posting the same old song day after day on these pages. If Campbell had done exactly the same thing Clark did, you would be singing Campbell's praises to earn your wages.
So save you negative comments for the Vancouver Sun or Province or the Times Colonist. They might even pay you for your thoughts.
maestro
5 years ago
When the NDP get back in power...
No..don't get us wrong.
The Fast Ferries were not a total waste.
If the NDP ever get in again...we can re-commission the F'n F.F.'s besides seagull sh!t collectors , mop the poopdeck , them charter the Fast Ferries and use them to get the hell out of BC ..... F-A-S-T.
Every BC citizen gets a free pass since they paid for it several times over. Maybe include a "Triple -O "coupon.
Ex Prem. Glen, who now works for Jimmy P. can be given the SIGN contract to produce signs that say things the "Line starts Here" and "Ends There" ie North of Dease Lake. Maybe produce 4 Million passes.
PS We'll use a sling shot to turn out the lights.
maestro
5 years ago
"Luke" Skywalker
Luke:
You REALLY don't know the scuttlebut of why Jimmy P. hired Glenocchio ?
C'mon....
Skywalker
5 years ago
Scuttlebutt?
No but any scuttlebutt from you is not worth the print. Only people like you would engage in scuttlebutt. Sorry I left you name out from the list with Cappy and Elliot. I guess it was because you are in a league all by yourself.
bob the cat
5 years ago
Skywalker
somethin` else huh?
trouble is ..if ya feed `em..
they keep coming back
maestro
5 years ago
Cruise to Nicholson: You can't handle the....LEFTIE BS
OK
Keep the head up the Ying - Ying.
If you think ol' Glen didn't have a unique purpose to fulfill, Jimmy P. probably could have had his pick of young groom-able MBA's to choose from.
Clark used to work for an extended -family member, and ol' Glennochio was self - serving agenda -driven greasy back- stabbing ideologue back then.
Besides the useful purpose, Jimmy was smart to keep the equivalent of Political Ebola out of trouble, just in case old Glen had retro urges for the good old NDP glory days (Ugghhh) .
Jimmy was smart ....but NOT Glen.
G West
5 years ago
Capitalism left us this:
writes our capitalist avatar slayer of evil socialists.
Another skill you learned at Arthur AndersEn cappy? Sounds a lot like Kenny-boy Lay's testimony at his trial; you know the one where he was found guilty?
I guess you prefer the BC Liberal tendering process.
You know the one where the result of the exercise is all decided in advance and you have to make certain 'arrangements' to keep up appearances.
I can't wait until this all gets portrayed in a movie of the week.
Think about this scene: Garry Collins' character meeting a pair of American big deal executives to deliver a "consolation prize" for having stayed in the process to make things 'look' legitimate over dinner at Villa Del Lupo.
Fine wine on the table, half-finished plates of venison carpaccio sprinkled with bits of marinated red onion and capers, atmospheric lighting and the soft sound of a violin being played by an undercover cop in the background.
I'm trying to imagine whom we could get to play Collins.
The role of the capo di tutti capo? Already cast that one in my mind.
Couldn't be anyone better than Vince Curatola for my money. He has just the right shade of silver hair and of course, the dead, soulless eyes.
Whadaya think Cappy?
Couldn't you see Johnny "Sack" Sacramoni as our Premier. All he needs is a pair of light blue contacts.
That's the image you prefer Cappy?
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
kl: Quote:RAV and the
kl:
The money wasted on RAV alone (and by wasted I mean excess spent over the cost of a smaller, more suitable system) is around 3 times the fast ferries.
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
OLYMPICS
Olympics boondoggles are happening all over, it seems:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6453575.stm
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
Capitalism: Quote:The RAV
Capitalism:
The cost is well in excess of 2 billion dollars.
400 million invested in 1995 with 5% annual interest rate and 2% inflation is 566 million in 2007. And I'd say 5% is generous.
You seem to have great trouble with numbers.
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
Capitalism: Quote:Beyond
Capitalism:
Nope. The purpose was to revive an already troubled BC shipbuilding industry.
The eighties saw BC shipbuilders face increasing competition from yards elsewhere in the world, particularly those in Japan and Korea. This devastated the industry in BC. The situation was the same elsewhere in Canada and the US.
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
Capitalism: Quote:If this
Capitalism:
It *did* work elsewhere.
http://www.incat.com.au/
http://www.austal.com/
BC Mary
5 years ago
Thanks for the memories: Fast Ferries Fine Ferries
Cappy, you are so funny! Like the Irishman who said to his mischievous little son: "The next time I take you somewhere, I'm gonna leave you home!"
Oh. And by the way, the catamarans as ferries were the latest thing, being built and operated here and there around the world. There were good reasons for choosing the style and for building them in B.C. shipyards.
Bob the Cat, thanks for the memories. Betcha we get to ride the PacifiCats again someday, eh?
Stump
5 years ago
Ferries
It seems to me that spending money here in B.C. on shipbuilding, even if we did pay a slight premium, might be better than injecting 50 million dollars into the European economy (for the Northern Adventure) and waving good-bye to any secondary and tertiary benefits that money might have had for our local economy. Perhaps someone more numerate than I might discuss just how much of a benefit we've given up by going overseas with that purchase.
And speaking of B.C. Ferries latest purchase, it was revealed today that the lack of bow doors on the Northern Adventure will require large R.V.s and transport trucks to back onto the ferry, so they can drive forward to disembark. Given the price of fuel and labour... and the no doubt significant amount of extra time this process will take, I would expect this ship to rack up quite a bill over the course of its lifespan, compared to what B.C. Ferries might have paid for those same items with a double-ended design.
DPL
5 years ago
The BC Ferries PR lady said
The BC Ferries PR lady said yesterday the boat they bought ends up at 100 million. It can only load and unload from one end. Channel 12 had a story on it last night with some reporter trying to back up a 5th wheel. seems staff will be available for the folks who can't drive well enough to back thier vehilces onto the boat. Being good folk they of course will doit nof nothing!! The fast cat was modified for loading and unloading from both ends at some cost. and of course the German boats are built in hugly subsidized yards . BC gets no income taxes back, the local companies sell no supplies etc. But by God, the fast cats were build by BC unionlabour and Gordo wasn't going to allow that to happen anymore. One more hting, if the provicne borrows money they get a better rate and of course wouldt pay the import duties. Those boats could have done the Inside passage in much less time that the udes bucket they bought. So rave on you fast cat haters.
RickW
5 years ago
flattax: Quote:Whatever
flattax:
They were sold for scrap for about $20.............
JIm:
Yes, because about 90% of that money would have stayed in the province. Now, if we're really lucky, 10% will.........
Jeez but you guys are thick!
IAMC
5 years ago
Back into the ferry?
Stump; can you please tell us where you heard that the new ferries being built in Germany are designed in a way that requires large vehicles to back into the ship?
I would love to here concrete information that supports your claim.
Cynic
5 years ago
Government "procurement".
Government "procurement". Sounds like some kind of disease.
Under the ndp the gov introduced "alternative capital procurement guidelines". Before your eyes glaze over completely, these essentially allowed the government to accept anonymous money from anonymous investors for the financing of P3s. Why the secrecy? Could it be that drug money is being laundered through P3 megaprojects like fast ferries or rav or gateway? Island highway? Skytrain extension? Inquiring minds want to know. Ya gotta love elite finance. Not that people pay any attention.
One thing we now know about gordo is that he's not just a liar, he's a phuqing liar. How can someone debase himself so deeply? Has he been threatened? I'd love to know what his masters told him when he made his obligatory pilgrimage to new york after he was elected. No doubt he's just like the rest of his puppet ilk, jockeying for position amongst the elite while the personal net worth fattens nicely.
G West
5 years ago
IAMC
That's not what Stump wrote Ron.
You need to read his post again. Stump was talking about the "Northern Adventure" - the boat brought in for the northern route to replace the one that sank last spring.
A little care would avoid these embarrassments. Too bad the government and their American puppet in the BC Ferries Corporation hadn't taken some, eh?
DJT
5 years ago
kl
How about the convention centre as well? Currently the cost is 800 million and change. Not only is it now 300 mil or so above the original estimate, but the cost may go higher.
It was built as a public project because, as Vaughn Palmer reported, no private investors were interested due to convention centres being "chronic money losers". I suppose Mr. Campbell's desire to kowtow to the tourism lobby, leave a legacy or maybe just feather Jack's nest (the centre is being built by Poole CL)helped him make his decision to stiff the taxpayer with the cost of this building. The funniest part of all is that now the provincial government is pointing to the cost overrun of the convention centre as support for P3's. I almost fell off my chair laughing when I heard that! Fact is the cost overrun would have been even higher if it had been built as a P3.
Anybody who thinks this government is "open and accountable" or who doesn't have a problem with the way they award contracts, etc., is either an idiot or is having their bread buttered by this government (or both). Period.
kl
5 years ago
Bow Doors
I couldn't find anything about no bow doors on the new Queen of Adventure. I'd be interested to hear more about this. It wouldn't surprise me though. This is a Government that forced Translink to vote three times until the "got it right" to accept RAV.
However, the Canada Line, contrary to what a lot of people think, is not even going to be the same technology as our current skytrain system. Now, I'm no fan of skytrain (I think the cars are too small, and when they do run the new big cars they only run two at a time), but, it's the system we already have in place. Why go with something completely different, with staff that will be completely seperate from the current skytrain system? We'll end up with a piece meal rapid transit system with different technologies, it doesn't make sense. As Jimmy points out we are already are up at 3 times the cost of the fast ferries. That may not be the end of it. All we're hearing is construction is on time, everything is going smoothly. Oh, except for that cave in on the weekend due to the rain. Other than that, no problems.
If only British Columbians knew what the hell was going on in this province. I still say we need a general strike to shake things up and let Cambpell know we won't accept TILMA, we won't accept P3s, we won't accept the wholesale sell off of our province to multinationals, and we won't accept lies and deceit.
bob the cat
5 years ago
BCMary
I`ll meet you on the promenade deck..we`ll have a wee nip..a game of quoits perhaps..a little shuffleboard.
IAMC
5 years ago
Northern Adventure
What were those people on the bridge doing the the night the ' Queen of the North" sank that night, which resulted in the disappearance of two passengers?
Who are probably dead.
Where is the accountability of this Public Sector Union, who have a monopoly to run this service?
I want answers. I pay $100.00 to take my car and passengers to the mainline.
What assurance do I have that this blackmail by this union is serving me well?
Well nothing is the answer.
Let's put these people's feet to the fire.
I have no sympathy for anyone who kills people, and are not held accountable.
Elliot
5 years ago
what a great question. of
what a great question. of course it's okay to cover this one up b/c the lefties and the unions don't want it in the public eye. i especially enjoyed their counterattack right after the accident as they tried to deflect attention from the ferry workers and focus it on the safety procedures. it was so obvious they had a 'best defence is a good offence' strategy. how bloody transparent are these people? everything but the truth eh guys? if those people were doing what is rumoured then they need to face the justice system, pure and simple. we all make mistakes, but covering them to preserve yourself is the wrong way to go here.
IAMC
5 years ago
blow job
It shouldn't take 20 minutes to give someone a blow job.
But I guess if you are a union worker you can justify this.
Can anyone explain how the this Ferry Union can justify killing people and causing millions of dollars of damage, and expecting that they have no obligation to explain themselves is fair?
I can't grasp the total irresponsibility of people that think they are above the law, simply because the are members of a Public Sector Union.
But BC Ferries isn't public sector. So why do we we have to put up with this bullshit?
The BC Ferry Corporation should be pursuing the truth about these two bridge workers who were on duty when the Queen of the North crashed into an island miles away from where the ship was supposed to be when it crashed into an island that no ferry has ever come close to.
I would like answers. As a consumer, private consumer, that has no choice but to sail under the direction of this Ferries Union.
We want an answer. What were these two workers doing to prevent this disaster.
I am not calling it an accident, because it's not an accident,
It is a crime.
Capitalism
5 years ago
Jimmy
"400 million invested in 1995 with 5% annual interest rate and 2% inflation is 566 million in 2007. And I'd say 5% is generous."
you may disagree with what I have to say, but i'll trump you every time when it comes to the numbers. I dare you to do your math again and prove this to me....
remember returns "compound"....
G West
5 years ago
So your calculator batteries are fresh, big deal!
My friend, it'll be the first time you ever trumped anyone in my experience.
BTW these two guys above you here are sure great company eh?
Nice friends.
You on the same banana boat with them too?
Night cappy.
DJT
5 years ago
IAMC : "I can't grasp the
IAMC : "I can't grasp the total irresponsibility of people who think they are above the law, simply because they are members of a public sector union".
Neither can I, nor can I grasp the total irresponsibility of people who are above the law simply because they are politicians. Campbell's drunk driving conviction is a case in point. And speaking of disasters, three people died in the van on the way to a greenhouse last week. That was a crime too. Then again,I guess it's okay to cut finding for vehicle inspectors, or just waive inspections altogether. After all, BC is open for business, right?
kl
5 years ago
I can't grasp the
Or how about the mishandling of 700 children's deaths and the disbanding of the independent children's commission which is absolutely criminal. The Liberals had to backtrack of course, just like every other time their actions have caused disasters.
kl
5 years ago
Or how about...
Or how about the Liberal cuts to avalanche safety which had to be restored after 7 teenagers died in Revelstoke?
Shameful.
relayer
5 years ago
IAMC says...
"I have no sympathy for anyone who kills people, and are not held accountable."
Unless the victims are south asian farmworkers?
bob the cat
5 years ago
ashes ashes we all fall down
"A Society that is in its higher circles and middle levels widely believed to be a network of smart rackets does not produce men with an inner moral sense; a society
that is merely expedient does not produce men of conscience. A society that narrows the meaning of "success" to the big money and in its terms condemns failure as
the chief vice, raising money to the plane of absolute value, will produce the sharp operator and the shady deal. Blessed are the cynical, for only they have what it
takes to succeed." --- The Power Elite by C. Wright Mills
ov
5 years ago
time wasters
I think that is their job, wasting the time of people that might otherwise organize some opposition.
Isabella2
5 years ago
Audit: Procurement without contract analysis
Flattax:
You are still concerned about the costs for the Pacificats - fair enough; I didn't like the fiasco either. But if you didn't like to pay $152 million per boat, how come you say nothing about the $1.2 BILLION overrun on the Canada Line? Or about the $235-million overrun on the Convention Centre? Or about the extra $55-million each that the Feds and the Province gave John Furlong - who still claims he's within budget. He is ALWAYS within budget - because the "budget" keeps being fed more of our dollars. And those are only a few of the Campbell-Pacificats that we actually know about. Who knows what the heck may be going on behind the scenes, or over at Partnerships BC - beyond the eagle eye of the Auditor-General's office.
Yup. This "new" BC government sure is business-savvy - Would that be monkey business?
G West
5 years ago
Isabella2
And what odds do you suppose there will be against members of the public actually seeing the results of ANY inquiry called under the terms of the new Public Inquiry Act/ Bill 6?
My view, not very good.
Stump
5 years ago
How the Libs do business
Don't forget the Liberal sell off of B.C. Rail included giving the Vancouver - Whistler run to Rocky Mountain Railtours... just three years before the 2010 Overrunlympics would have brought trainloads (if you'll pardon the expression) of potential customers to the service.
While it's great news and a heckuva business opportunity for RMR, one can only wonder how much revenue won't be coming into the provincial coffers due, to an idealogical love-affair with privatization, rather than a impassionate assessment of future business opportunities that could benefit the province.
A cynic might suggest that the provincial Liberals' philosophy forces them to give up such an opportunity, because a government-owned and unionized company able to deliver profits to the people demonstrates the flaws in their approach to governance.
Cynic
5 years ago
"Blessed are the cynical,
"Blessed are the cynical, for only they have what it
takes to succeed." --- The Power Elite by C. Wright Mills
Thank you for that.
"A cynic might suggest that the provincial Liberals' philosophy forces them to give up such an opportunity, because a government-owned and unionized company able to deliver profits to the people demonstrates the flaws in their approach to governance."
Very good.
My favorite example of the success of government ownership is also the most telling one. The best years in Canada, 1939-1975 or so, were marked by government ownership of a relatively large percentage of its own debt. The Depression lingered on and then all of a sudden we mustered a war effort and then unprecedented social progress. How? The government printed money. As much as 22% of the national debt was held by our own Bank of Canada. Today it's less than 5%. Why is it that we accept the obscene profits of the private banks amid growing poverty, homelessness, and inequality? What will it take to wake us up?
sonic931
5 years ago
funny you should ask
Whatever happened to the fast ferries?
Um,the Liberals sold them for an absurdly paltry 19 million clams ultimately proving what a pathetic myth their supposed business acumen is.
The brain
5 years ago
It was more than 19 mil
But we'll never really know how big the bribes were...
Lax documents... I guess if there is no paper trail, there is no crime. As cappy would say, "nothing is wrong here, all is well".
RickW
5 years ago
Isabella2
I hope you're not holding your breath waiting for flatulence to answer.......
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
Capitalism: Quote:you may
Capitalism:
You're too funny, Capitalism! But seriously... If I may, I recommend you stick to empty rhetoric and childish generalisations in your posts. You're good at it. As for informed discussion, well, not so much.
Better yet, you can do my math. See if you get a different answer.
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/investment.html
Fiat lux
5 years ago
Capitalism survives and
Capitalism survives and thrives on fraud, deceit, lies and fraudulent accounting, so it is no surprise that governments in its service are hooked to the same.
The peculiar thing is that people always followed such crooks into suicide, since the beginning of time.
This is the only incomprehensible part, because it keeps on repeating itself through the ages and always ends in the self destruction of societies and civilizations, yet, people never learn.
I'll never forget a new accountant I had about 35-40 years ago. His first question was: "Do you want to show a profit, or loss?"
This may be an old joke, but I swear it was true.
Ed Deak.
morechatter
5 years ago
yesterdays news
Yeah Jenny said something - this has been going on for sometime and isn't Kwan the opposition isn't she expected to say something - and if you want change Jenny is not going to be the one to get it for you. I don't get it the women wears those high heals into a room full of moroons - she will not get any respect there - Kwan's riding would have been better served with a Liberal at least then they would have to hear the concerns of the consituents in that riding rather than a do nothing Jenny.
morechatter
5 years ago
yesterdays news
Yeah Jenny said something - this has been going on for sometime and isn't Kwan the opposition isn't she expected to say something - and if you want change Jenny is not going to be the one to get it for you. I don't get it the women wears those high heals into a room full of moroons - she will not get any respect there - Kwan's riding would have been better served with a Liberal at least then they would have to hear the concerns of the consituents in that riding rather than a do nothing Jenny.