as long as the Westside has no densification or Rapid transit everything will be OK

PalHarry

Yes Tyee, so slander, no libel. I promise! Sam 'The unwise' Sullivan is proving to be the nasty little dictator that we always thought he was. Wheelchair politics made him mayor and he will use this crutch forever.

Here is the real story. IOC official are aghast at the rampant increase in homeless people and the explosion in addicts staggering on the streets. This is bad for Sullivan and Vancouver.

The IOC have quietly told Sullivan to shape up or the Olympics will ship out. They can and will if they deem that rampant social issues marr the good Olympic name. Ya know, don't want those TV types filming wealthy pampered atheletes and officials and then comparing them with the destitute etc.

My spies have also told me that IOC types have been gently asking 'certain' questions in Salt Lake City and Calgary, after our disasterous snowfall brought Vancouver to a standstill. I mean in winter it snows and the Olympic Committee want snow. But if snow brings a city's transportation network to a standstill during the event, well then a big black eye to the host city and the Olympic Committee! They are also deathly afraid of demonstrations and we have a very vocal protesting community!

My spies also tell me that there are problems with Richmond's skating oval as the ground can not support the weight over such a broad area (that 10 mm tolerance you know).

And Sam 'The unwise' Sullivan is up to his wheelchair in problems, but with Vancouver's NPA, the public will never know the truth!

Sullivan acknowledged that the board letter "certainly" influenced the Civil City Project. "It was a great letter," he said. "It came from some of the most significant business organizations in the city."

How about it Howe Street?

Perhaps it’s time for “most significant business organizations in the city” to ante up, walk the walk, and put some of Gordo’s tax cuts back into the community that sleeps by their building’s exhaust vents, rummages in their dumpsters, and can’t even begin to fathom the degree of wealth and privilege these “significant organizations” enjoy.

In a city where drug dealers openly sell their product across the street from the police station the true solution is to isuue more tickets for peeing in public.

Makes sense to me, Sam.

His plan is backwards. The homeless will continue their behaviours, regardless of the number of tickets they get, because they don't have any other choice. You think some housing and mental health services should proceed the stepped up bylaw enforcement? Oh wait ... the Olympics are coming ... we don't have time. Big, bold move Sam!

It seems that the homeless problem will never go away unless we do something really innovative. So I have a modest proposal.

Let's eat them. Not only will this solve the problem, it will go a long way towards ending hunger too. No doubt the vast network of foodbanks and soup kitchens will welcome this new addition to their larders. I'm salivating at the thought of some delicious fricasee or bergou. That's it, I'm gonna write a cookbook.

Densification is but another attempt on the part of the system to live with and normalize the over population and over development of these megalopolis urban spaces. All the while the land and development specualators continue to pave/consume the entire lower mainland, including the prescious land of the Fraser Valley.

And even if you "densify" that, the latest so-called "green friendly" developer/realty buzzword, the same volumes, nay more "shitt" still flows downhill, upward and inlandward to pollute the same air, land and water biosphere spaces we and all species depend upon for the sustenance of life. A tidy, "denser" pile of poop is still the same pile of poop. Even then, given the "greed drives" built within capitalism, it is a now "denser" pile of shitt that will continue to grow, you have to know it. They will insist on it.

Capitalism wants its cake and eat it too. It dasn't dare let its "Endless Growth" needs and demands go-, or "the system" as it is implodes in upon itself when it can't endlessly expand. It is the terminal weakness of Greed Capitalism-, which combined with the deleterious social effects of its "class" arrangement of society from lower to higher, is in the process of bringing the status quo socio-economic system to the limits of its useful development potential.

"Densification" is not the solution to the problem. It is but another manifestation of the problem: human over population emergence, which grows out of and is in a large part driven by the over production, market and consumption over developments of the so-called "free market" economic base.

"Densification" and all the "business class" development forces that are now attempting to drive it and secure its acceptance by the populace are but a higher and further development of these real, two main problems: again, over population and the never ending development needs of capitalism.

I mean seriously, more densification on the lower mainland is a "solution"? Something that people should want and or bend to the market demand for?

Get real.

It is precisely what is making Vancouver and area such an insane place to live already, and has driven so many of us out of there and the lower mainland as it is. It is but another insane notion, to match the bourgeois-corporatist globalization drive of this totally insane neoconservative/neoliberal capitalism period.

And issuing tickets for peeing in public is the best neo-conservative solution?

That's rich.

They issue lots and lots of tickets in New York, in the land the neo-conservative apologists for capitalism love to emulate and desire us to join up with in the NAU, and New York still smells like one big open public urinal.

Which is now, apparently, to be the air quality character of Vancouver, to the degree it is not already.

For so long as the socially blind continue to follow the socially blind.

Soon the entire lower mainland all want to be on smack, in order to tolerate the density of life in the new "denser" Vancouver.

Good one, Cynic. LOL :-)

The System has turned entirely and completely mad, mad, mad I tell you. B-$

Yep, another try at wasting taxdollars!
Homeless people/drifters will always be here, and they do not wish to conform!
Now, Stanley Park may not be able to house as many of them as previously,so poor Sully will see even more bums hanging out on his beloved streets.

Not all poor people are badly behaved, and not all badly behaved people are poor. Who wouldn't tingle with glee to see some nicely dressed person with shopping bags in hand get a big fat ticket for hawking a loogie on the sidewalk (or worse, on the floor of the mall) or carelessly tossing fast food containers and cigarette butts on the ground inches from a garbage can?

We used to brag about how film crews had to mess up the alleys in order to shoot a gritty city scene; they don't have to make much effort anymore. If this project forces more people, of all social classes, to respect public spaces, I'm all for it.

By the way, it would be great if some bylaw fines went towards building more public washrooms throughout the city. Boy do we need them sometimes.

Why not just adopt Tony Blair's ridiculous expedient? Get pee wee to pass enabling Anti-social Behavior legislation, install a lot of closed-circuit cameras and give everyone access to a free snitch line so Sullivan can start issuing ASBOs to the folks whose activities you don't like.

Been just a HUGE success in England.

LOL

I don't buy that line for one second. As someone who has worked in Gastown for years, I have seen "outreach" and "harm reduction" programmes come and go like the wind. They all shut down at 5:00 pm and for the holidays. They are completely useless.

Eleven years ago, I had an alcohol problem. It was affecting my life and family. Then one day I quit. Haven't had a drink since then. It is the same with any addiction; once the individual decides to stop, it is completely up to them whether they succeed or not. Ask any former substance abuser and you will hear the same, be it booze, tobacco, coke or junk.

Bleeding hearts don't know this and continue to think that thowing money at the recovery industry will somehow help people. It doesn't, it only enables. I guess bleeding hearts somehow feel better when tax money is thorwn at addicts but it does not help the problem one iota.

I work two blocks from the "Safe Injection Site." Now, there is a good one; since when is injection that toxic crap into your body "safe." The number of users and dealers in the area has hugely increased. New homeless? They came from outside the city looking for dope. The alleys around the place swarm with dealers, many more than before the place opened. They can put two and two together. Ask any cop if I am right. but it make bleeding hearts, who live far away from the mess we have created, feel better.

Dealers should be thrown in jail and with big sentences. Users should also be busted. What they are doing is illegal.

No. You are wrong, Alive and pals.

Other than during the Great Depression of the 1930s, we have not seen these numbers of homeless people and drifters in this country-, certainly not during the numerous years of my lifetime. Not throughout the postwar period of relatively "socialized" Prosperity Capitalism.

The contrary claim is simply another neocon lie, which merely repeated loud and often enough, is an attempt to make it appear the norm of all times and possibility-, playing on peoples capacity to forget or ignore.

This is a new phenomena, at these extremely high levels, which begin to appear with the neo-conservative cutbacks, attacks on unions and wages, and women's programmes in the late 1970s.

Europe's poor of the Industrial Revolution, which we are all now simply recreating again, as a consequence of following its economic system development model, are the majority progeny population, most of us, of North America.

The appearance of mass poverty, homelessness and substance abuse is the thrown up product of a sick and failing social and economic system. It is by and large that simple-, with the most vulnerable being but the first to fall under the wheels of the capitalism train.

Stop lying wingnut cons, or make an attempt to know and understand what you clearly do not. You attempts at glib reactionary treatise do not fly here, where there is a larger knowledge base.

Aghh - The Prick on Wheels is at it again. Sullivan has been an unmitigated disaster from the moment he took office. The manner in which he exploits his disability for political expediency is nothing short of soul-robbing hypocrisy.

Creating a fascist Singapore-like city and fining our way out of this mess will never be an effective approach, simply because homelessness and street crime are only the symptoms of our society's ills. This City is rapidly becoming a stomping ground for soulless, greedy transient elitists who think that indifference and Teflon coated house alarms are the best way to avoid a broken society. Sweeping the problems that rampant, short-sighted capitalism has caused for the sake of appearances at the big sports party are as phony as those that sit in NPA seats at City Hall.

It's time for out and out anarchy and an old fashioned, head-rolling revolution. Let's start planning now for a Pacific Bastille Day in 2010!

Slog - wow.

Tell us how you really feel.

Better yet, get on the voting list and vote in every election. That is the way to make yourself heard.

working slog,

Puts not too fine a point on it perhaps, but gets it essentially fuking right. Certainly a whole bunch better than that other so-called Working Man, who obviously starch washes all his shorts and snorts the Vancouver Sun or the Financial Times for breakfast.

"Vote in every election." LOL.

Another increasingly obvious waste of valuable working class time in this Big Money managed and manipulated so-called "Democracy".

, my ass. Only if you have no concept of actual "freedom" and "democracy" at all, and believe everything your social class "betters" tell you, and you let them define and control that so-called "

".

It works on "faith" alone, like religion.

The way to make yourself heard is to scare the piss out of them-, with the numbers of your feet pounding out your determination, and shaking the very ground beneath them.

There is a tendency in every age and societal arrangement to think that what is, is the only way and for all time. Which is pure, unadulterated horseshit, of course.

Though it does mean that you really have to get it together, and be tough enough and smart enough to defeat their capacity for treachery.

WM, you might get people back to the polls if we could find a way to make the politicians accountable.

Democracy - Aghh yes - this long lost concept.

Coyote has exactly right! Democracy in North America, especially in places like Vancouver overrun by callous, self-serving fascists, is an idealist’s pipedream.

Did it ever occur to those idealists that believe in genuine democracy, that there is a systematic scheme behind the escalating and impossible cost of housing, fuel, food etc for working families in Vancouver. Maybe these pricks really want us poor unsightly working slogs to all be relegated to suburbs. Did you ever wonder why our immigration policies so openly favor the wealthy who parachute in droves into Vancouver from Asia. That's called seeding the voter’s list! In the favor of whom I wonder?

Yes these bastards have all kinds of wicked schemes up their sleeves to keep us poor working slogs in debt up to our ears and stupefied by cable news, so that we are adequately pacified and less of an inconvenience while they indifferently continue on their merry decadent way.

Put on your marching shoes my friends – it’s time to take back for all working families!

Even for a Vancouver city bureaucrat, Sullivan manages to produce an amazing amount of hot air in this article. Yeah, let's dump loads of $$$$ into glorified meter maids handing out tickets to people who can't pay them instead of actually addressing some of the problems. After all, it's just window dressing for the 2010 - doesn't matter if it actually solves anything as long as it looks liek we're doing something! This has been Scam Sullivan's attitude all the way through - add more bureaucracy and waste more taxpayer $$$$ to accomplish nothing!

The single common sense comment he makes is that we need to reopen Riverview. Well, fucking DUH!!!!! Maybe if a majority of the do-gooder, politically correct $$$ that have been funnelled into the DTES ghetto had been diverted to helping reopen and staff Riverview at *sufficient* levels, then we'd see a significant decrease in crime and homelessness in the DTES. A significant number of people on the street are mentally ill and either not treated at all, or treated insufficiently to manage their illness. A lot of these people, given clinical evaluation and monitored treatment like Riverview should be able to provide wouldn't be on the street at all. Those with manageable mental health issues who could have decent care would likely be able to actually function in society, and the people whose illnesses make them genuinely unable to care for themselves would be in residential care, away from drugs and off the street.

Of course, since this solution requires common sense from the government, I don't expect it to actually happen.

I'll go out on a limb here and agree 100% with Coyote's post.

What we're seeing now is totally unprededented since the Great Depression. In fact, if you factor out what little impact the social safety net is having in diminishing the deplacement and poverty, our current predicament is actually far, far worse.

Moreover, the situation isn't just the result of a currency blip, short-term trend or boom-bust cycle - It's something much, much bigger, and almost certainly longer-lasting.

Some say the problem has been in the works for decades - perhaps as early as the oil crisis in the 1970s. That's when the disintegration of the system started to germinate.

The tragedy is the reality of who's begging for change on the street corners: the next generation. They're all kids - mobs of them - born and raised in Canadian households. We've enacted a kind of social cannibalism we'd associate more with the third world, which has more overt forms of human triffiking, child sex-slavery, etc. You want to see underage prostitution in action, just hang out on the Blenz patio at Bute and Davie for a couple hours and pay close attention. Those kids are fodder for street dealers and other trash. It goes beyond anything Dickens ever wrote about, and it's here and now.

I don't think sweeping it under the rug is the answer. Sure, there has to be boundaries and enforcement, but this problem is only going to grow unless we try something that goes a little deeper. Sadly, what is proposed is really about cleaning up the visuals in time for 2010 than about real compassion and problem-solving.

Nightbloom,

Well said. Thank you.

slog

Amen working slog.

And nightbloom, welcome to the monkey house - it's where the sane people live these days.

It's time to start working for real change - long past time.

You all have a good holiday. Thanks all.

This has got to be a Winter Solstice in the time line contuum I'm seeing from my old nemesis, nightbloom!!!

I am aghast!!

I will though echoe GWest, in welcoming nightbloom to our monker house. :-)

Good on you, nightbloom. That's the kind of Christian conscience even an old athiest like me is appreciative of seeing. :-)

Nice to see the sane and understanding voices overwhelm the neocon dingbat ones.

I bought a 50 watt megaphone today.

I thought it would be a good idea for me to show up here and say that I am doing fine and wish all of you a very merry xmas and a happy new year!

Sullivan sold out to who?
Now this should p--s off the working poor as most are 1 check away from being homeless.
http://www.bcfiberals.com/blog.html
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law: Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

http://www.friendsoffreedom.org/

http://www.mser.gov.bc.ca/privacyaccess/CRTSstats/ReportsIndex.htm

so sam figures eco-density is going to save the world, or at least the environment.

far more greenhouse gas emissions are created by agriculture (cow patties), and airplanes than by automobiles. Prioritites are backwards buddy, and postulations are a little addled.

as slog mentioned back there, homelessness is only a 'symptom of societies ills'. I agree completely.

a friend told me today that whenever a 'newcomer' comes along to the 'intstitution' that he works at, these people often suddenly come up with 'new and innovative ideas' to solve particular problems, that they don't realize have already been tried unsuccesfully many times before. In the meantime these newbies slag the long time workers (who have already tackled the problems facing the 'institution' for many years) as incompetent or stupid or whatever. How does that old saying go? learn from the mistakes of others as you won't live long enough to........you know the one.

I think Sam Sullivan needs to have some conversations with a wider diversity of people: war vets, seniors, retired tradespeople, retired business people, perhaps some officials in large metropolitan cities that have much larger homelessness and drug problems, etc. He just seems to me to be caught up in his own un-reality learning curve.

Did I read "Working Man" say vote in every election?...how naive! Hasn't he heard of the newly signed accord between Gordo & Ralph (the TILMA)? This mini-NAFTA will over-ride any democratic process, be it at the municipal, or provincial level when it comes to road blocks against the profit motive of our caring corporate citizens! Also coming to another prairie province soon! De-regulation in high gear! bye-bye CWB!

You mean like all those voters in David Emerson's riding?

Working man, you must be a young man. If not, how come you haven't noticed that elections are a farce? Pity the elders in our society who have endured a lifetime of broken promises and baldfaced lies after dutifully going to exercise their franchise in vain. Electoral democracy means nothing without economic democracy, and we definitely don't have that. The elite control the money system and that's why they rule. Witness the result.

Right on regarding the densification issue, Coyote. I say, if you don't build it, they won't come.

Working Man: I don't always agree with your views, however I am with you 100% on the drug dealer issue. These folks should be thrown in the slammer for 20 years or so, no parole. Any dealer not a Canadian citizen should be put on the next plane. They'll be in jeopardy, they whine? Tough, maybe they'll get what's coming to them.

Of course this won't happen for the same reason that social issues will merely receive a lot of lip service: it costs money. Money that could otherwise feather the nests of our politician's buddies/ financial donors. What a laugh!

If you have a better solution I am all ears. Vancouver is the perfect example. Most people in the West Side vote and most in the east don't. Guess which side gets All the Good Stuff?

Acountability? Well, it seem to work pretty well. Look what happened to Brian Mulroney and Glen Clark. Their parties were virtually wiped out. Same thing happened with COPE last year. The voters threw the bums out.

That's democracy. It ain't perfect but I will take it over an uneducated mob any day.

Working Man, Step easy and others;

GOOD COMMENTS

I guess as the 2010 Olympics approaches, there may, in fact, be the Critical Mass of awareness and political pressure to actually put in place and trigger a P-L-A-N of ACTION.

However, the corollary to that is if nothing is done before the Olympics , it will be the same old status-quo .

I think the Olympics has stretched the fiscal resources of most Local Gov'ts , (surpri$e - surpri$e !!!), and this makes it even more interesting.

Any truly workable etc. P-L-A-N will likely have to be funded in quasi-perpetuity, versus a band-aid here and a band-aid there type -of- approach.

working man
you must be feeling better - I see you've got some Glen content back in your diatribe.
And little Brian too. You are so yesterday's man, dude.

A little more thought there is necessary on why the richer folks of West Van are more likely to vote than East Van, WM. It's 'cause the politicians are more likely to be financially and electorally beholden to the folks in West Vancouver, and as a result, give them what they want. (Though there are many other aspects to this relationship as well, which maybe I can get to here.)

On the other hand, the working class folks of East Vancouver have learned that this is indeed exactly the case, and as a result, they and their communities are more likely to languish in inattention and neglect-, unless them folks in West Van want such as a faster freeway through their East Van neighbourhoods, for example.

This ain't democracy, WM-, but merely what has been allowed to pass for it to here-, apparently for so long that some lesser imaginative folks such as yourself can't see outside the confinement of the capitalism box to other possibilities.

You need to pay more attention to such as Cynic and Working Slog up above here, who are turning out to be amongst my own favourites on Tyee. (And this thread seems to have flushed out a number of really good and previously unread voices, at least by me.)

You likely are very young, like Cynic suggests as well. We keep drawing pictures for you here, and you still keep trying to pound your neocon round pegs into those well worn square holes-, again, again and again.

Of the two facets to a fully rounded democracy, such as needs to be, in my view, one the formal "State electoral" facet and the other "economic democracy", it is the latter which engages the community and enterprise workers in the exercise of "democratic power" over the strategic direction, management, consequence and receipt of "benefit" , especially (though not exclusively) of large scale public and hereto private corporate operations, it is precisely this latter "facet of a full democracy" that is of the greater relative importance. (And the current ruling class understands this very well for themselves, though they would hide it from us, for it is their ownership and control over the economy which gives them an effective veto power over whatever "formal" government is elected to control the State and its "formal" bureaucratic systems.)

Yet which is not to stay that how we determine representation to that "formal" State is unimportant either-, because it assuredly is, with its control of military, police, legislative and law determination. And so we do also need a complete re-overhaul of the institutions and electoral mechanisms that determine representation here too-, looking to a more equitable playing field and opportunities for participation from the various working class and gender stratas of society, and such even currently marginalized political parties and factions as these social class strata may wish to organize themselves in-, enriching the whole of society with access to their broader range of ideas, views and solutions, than the mere elite serving ones.

This is an elitist serving, Big Money determined and managed system of so-called democracy, Working Man and neocon pals, designed to restrict the access rights to power, and concentrate it instead in the hands of those who control the wealth and economic base of status quo society.

Continued next post...

From previous post...

There is a screaming need just now beginning to emerge again, for the first time since the Great Depression of the 1930s, to finally change this state of social and economic affairs. And, I would say, it's almost certainly going to involve more than simply putting a friggin' X on a piece of paper, beside any one of the current "official" parties to the capitalist state. (Nor am I saying that how you currently vote or do not vote is unimportant. It is part of what we have been discussing here for awhile now-, and likely will continue to, through the next Federal and provincial election.)

And so, while there are many questions for which there is need still of answers, and there is yet a lack of organized and disciplined lower class strata responses, what is becoming entirely clear is that... we are in a new period in the development of North America society that is increasingly working against the interests of working and lower class strata folks. Which should by now be beginning at least to make clear to those of us in that majority social class range of folks in society, that while those who have gone before us fought for and won this modest measure of democracy such as exists in our society, it is NOT the final word in the development of democracy such as we absolutely need and is in our interests. It is but what we have allowed to pass for democracy to here.

In response to the arrogant disdain of such as so-called Working Man immediately above me here, we have but to educate ourselves. He, on the other hand, is hopeless.

quote:
"Working Man: I don't always agree with your views, however I am with you 100% on the drug dealer issue. These folks should be thrown in the slammer for 20 years or so, no parole. Any dealer not a Canadian citizen should be put on the next plane. They'll be in jeopardy, they whine? Tough, maybe they'll get what's coming to them.

Of course this won't happen for the same reason that social issues will merely receive a lot of lip service: it costs money. Money that could otherwise feather the nests of our politician's buddies/ financial donors."

Gordo and his gang are so tightly wound with the bad guys, nothing will happen because of that fact. They enjoy the payoffs to much. Same with gambling. He promised no increases, now 300% increase in gambling , 3414 investigations into criminal activity... hmmm gordo's doing a good job. As he says, " I'll drink to that"

B-D LOL. Kam Lee knows. You'd think Working Man and his pals would as well, but don't.

Ya think maybe there's a partisan interest in not getting it, in the case of these neocon apologist dudes?

When the Coyote howls... everyone should listen.

Well written my friend. As quoted above, marking a simple "x" is no longer enough WM. Think for a minute about some examples here:

They are building a highway paved with gold called the Sea to Sky. Million$$$ are being spent so the rich can go and play more conveniently. Who's paying for that? Yup you guessed it, working slogs like us. How many times are we going to drag our asses up there to sip on fine champagne in the hot tub?

F*#k Head Gordy, Scam Sullivan and other such thugs are robbing us blind. But now it is no longer to just feed their well-heeled corporate and developer pals - but they desperately want this international sports orgy to feed their fat egos!! Nothing else. If you think for one minute that the so called economic boom created by the Olympics will help ordinary working families one iota - think again WM!

I say we organize and get some numbers down to VANOC's offices and bring the CBC with us. Let them know we are not interested in being robbed blind any longer and make sure that the IOC sees that we are mad as hell and are not going to take it any longer! Maybe, just maybe, we can get them to shut this monstrosity down before it’s too late.

Some final tidbits to chew on from south of the border where the EPI Economic Policy Institute is ringing alarm bells as the working class there becomes more and more uneasy. All this while the pundits are telling us the economy is doing just peachy. The more the working class gets screwed the more unstable things are becomming:

http://www.epi.org/

Peace on Earth to all those that share and have compassion.

Amen, and back at you, working slog. A few thousand people with a megaphone or two would probably make the right impression on the IOC. When is their next scheduled visit?
Peace.

Densification is the big business/neocon/economists' dream of wealth creation, by depriving people of their self respect, decision making powers and any degree of self sufficiency by putting them into zoo cages and count it as GDP.

This is why people here in the Interior, and all over the world are being forced off their lands and homes and into cities. Mexico after NAFTA is the worst case scenario, with millions uprooted, so that the agribiz corporations could confiscate their lands, waiting for Canadian waters for chemical monoculture.
So, who gained and gains? The people, or the middlemen?

The per capita energy/water use of people in cities is staggering.

The more people live on the land, with their own gardens, etc. the better off and more efficient the economy will be, but that doesn't register on the GDP scale, so the idiots are scared.

I work just as much as when I was working for sale, use less energy and water to make thinks and feed ourselves, but that's no GDP, so we're a "burden on the economy"? .

Makes sense to some neocon nuts and crooks, but not to real people.

Ed Deak.

Happy holidays Ed, to you and yours.

As always, more sanity in one of your posts than a hundred neocon ravings.

And indeed, a happy holiday to you and yours Ed Deake. It has been a pleasure reading you, and I have learned much from you.

Take care, brother.

WM, all politicians should have the scrutiny that Glen Clark had on him and his party we might end up with a few honest politicians.

But if we had honest politicians, there would be a big drop in the GDP, productivity and multinational profits, and we can't have that, as it would interfere with Canada's standing as the "one of the best countries to do business in "

The polite language for legalized theft.

Ed Deak.

PS:
Thanks for the best wishes and the same to you all. Even our dear trolls, who make life so much more interesting with their comments of Stone Age philosophies.

Yesterday was one of the worst days of our lives. We lost a beloved, 11 year old dog to pancrearitis. We tried to save her for a month, but there was no way.

She was almost like a human, a talking dog, full of life and love until the last 2 days, when it took her over. I don't mind admitting that we cried like babies.

Ed Deak,

I'm so sorry to hear that Ed. I lost a great friend and neighbout to a sudden heart attack last Wednesday - I've been walking his dog ever since - the poor creature is devastated and I'm a pale bloody subsitute for his master.

Ed, my sympathies, dogs are a familly treasure. I greatly miss my Jester, for all the havoc he caused. At least now, we know who kept the coyote's ( Not you Coyote) away!

Peace to every one this holiday season, including the Libel and Slander Nazi's!

I hope in the New Year, Beers starts investigating TransLink! Santa, please make it so1

The 2010 Winter Olympics as far as I’m concerned should never be permitted by the IOC with all of our poverty and child poverty in British Columbia not just in Vancouver, homelessness, the mentally ill being thrown in jail or moved around by our publicly paid cops with riot gear yet "give me a break", The welfare system being unattainable for most which now includes many single parents, thanks Gordo
I’d be very happy, no Elated if Gordo had the 2010 Winter Olympics taken away by the IOC!

Its just pathetic that people contributing to this commentary don't see that they are corroding the possibilities of an actual forum that can discuss issues. You are abusing the fact that good writers are writing for the Tyee.

OK, Anti-densification ranters, please explain your plans for how

(i)middle class and working class people can be able to afford housing that allows them to walk, take transit or bike to work and shopping--or do you want us to continue with oil dependency and GHG emissions at current or increased levels?

(ii) real communities with services and human face to face interaction can be created,

(iii)people who want to or need to move to Vancouver (out of economic need, in response to changes in global economics, agricultural policy, etc) can do so without being stuck driving in cars for hour plus commutes (remember, in a world of supply and demand, existing zoning works to decrease housing supply in Vancouver and drive up prices, without letting supply match demand-- hence now only the rich can "Get into the market").

IF you weren't so pompous about attacking "the system" (Coyote, Fiat lux and others) you might see that both free market and social democratic states throughout Europe and most of Latin America feature cities and towns with densities much higher than Sam Sullivan is proposing. It makes them more interesting, culturally, socially and aesthetically, as well as helping ensure the economies use far less oil, and other resources. A lot of activists, planners, architects, lawyers and citizens are rallying around densification as one way of trying to make cities nicer, more affordable and more sustainable. (see, for instance smartgrowth.bc.ca/)

For all your bitterness against the current situation, you are hardly writing in a voice that contributes to constructive dialogue

I should have added above:

I don't much agree with most of what Sullivan is proposing. He has a nasty idea of the city as supposed to be cleansed of unwanted elements, and a various protestant notion of civil order. And for that reason, I am pretty suspicious of density plans by the people who brought us Yaletown. But thats all the reason we need real discussion about these issues.

I was in Europe when it was in ruins, people were starving and running around in rags, because there were no resources to eat and clothe themselves.

This is why I'm no longer there and also not in a city, where people are helpless and have to rely on a constant stream of supplies. And when it dries up for any reason, even for a few days, they're up against the wall.

We lived in Vancouver for 24 years, have seen the effects and aftermath of Typhoon Frieda and the only reason we stayed was because we didn't think we could make a living elsewhere. Turned out just the opposite and we should have gotten out sooner.

Obviously not everybody can live in the country for a great variety of reasons. Cities are necessary for many reasons

But to force people, who'r rather live in the country, into mega cities on braindead economic philosophies, so that the middlemen in control of the economy can get richer, is not only stupid, but a crime against humanity.
'
What benefit did Mexico get out of the forced urbanization of millions and a 70% poverty rate since NAFTA?

By the way, there are no so called "free markets", just as Mao didn't have a "cultural revolution". All fraud. The only thing economic theories can and do decide is who controls the system.

And it is always the same predator class under every ideology and flag, which they can change with the speed of changing their dirty socks.

I have seen and lived them all, personally and first hand.

Ed Deak.

OK Ed,

Thats all fair enough. So we need some sort of natio nal (international) economic policy to ensure that rural life can continue, is sustainable, etc. And you are right that free trade economics and agreements largely screw the country-side and lead to over urbanization.

But lets keep things on track: How does any of that analysis help the debate concerning how to make Vancouver a more livable place, especially in the short term. And especially when the article is about Sam Sullivan's policies.

Vancouver was a very pleasant, liveable place when we went there in '55 and for another 20 years.

The trouble started, when crazy economic policies started jamming too many people into a small mountain and sealocked area.

Now, according to this article, Sullivan and his ideological masters want to jam even more in and also trying to make it a liveable place ? ".....the most profound way we can do this is densification"

The guy is a nutcase. What he should be fighting for is de-densification, if there's such a word. Get rid of people, not asking for more.

I used to do 40-50 miles a day in the city, seeing customers, picking up and delivering things for my business between 1957 and 79. Even then the last few years were unbearably stressful, long traffic jams etc. Now, I haven't been to Vancouver for 18 years, never want to see the place again and feel sorry for the inhabitants. From what I can see on TV and photos, the place became a horrible, overcrowded, but "world class" dump.

Jamming more into sardine cans won't make them more comfortable, or liveable, no matter how the ideological nutcases try to follow the orders of their owners and prophets.

Ed Deak.

Vote for who?? There isn't anyone to vote for! Every GD election I have to hold my nose and vote for who I "think" is the least repressive bastard, and that includes the NDP, Vision, NPA, Green... you must be joking, surely. They all work for the money/union/greed/power. There is not ONE INDEPENDANT THOUGHT amongst them.

The game of politics is a dirty vicious evil one, you play with the cannibals and they eat you.

The revolution will happen when we create a alternative socio-economic structure for people who don't need million dollar homes.

Not really the appropriate thread for it-, but appropriate enough here, approaching the year end.

Iraq al-Qaeda 'offers US safe exit'

From Al Jazerah (Dec. 20, 2006)

The leader of an al-Qaeda-backed group has offered US forces safe withdrawal from Iraq within a month if they left their heavy weapons behind, according to an audio tape posted on the internet on Friday.

The authenticity of the tape could not be verified, but it was posted on two main web sites used by al-Qaeda and other armed groups in Iraq.

"We call on [President George] Bush not to waste this historic opportunity," said the speaker, identified as Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, head of the so-called Islamic state in Iraq, which was announced in October by al-Qaeda and groups linked to it.

"We are awaiting your response within two weeks of this announcement," said the speaker in the tape, which was dated December 22. He said armed groups would refrain from attacking withdrawing US forces if it is completed within a month.

Iraqi Sunni groups including al-Qaeda announced in October the creation of what they described as an Islamic state in Iraq.

Addressing the United States, al-Baghdadi said: "We are announcing today our orders for you, so obey them before you regret it.

'US rebuffed'

"We order you to withdrew your troops immediately, using troop carriers and aircraft, and taking only your personal weapons. Don't withdraw any heavy weapons. Instead you should hand that and your military bases over to the holy warriors of the Islamic State," he said on the tape.

Al-Baghdadi claimed that Washington had tried to open a channel of negotiation with his group through the Saudi government. But he had rejected the initiative.

"The giant has started to fall. It is looking for an escape and seeking to negotiate with all the other groups and parties," al-Baghdadi said.

"They sent us al-Salool," he said, employing an abusive historical term to refer to the Saudi ruling family.

Al-Baghdadi said he had spurned the offer because "we are not ones to negotiate with those who killed our children".

"Eleven years ago, I had an alcohol problem. It was affecting my life and family. Then one day I quit. Haven't had a drink since then. It is the same with any addiction; once the individual decides to stop, it is completely up to them whether they succeed or not. Ask any former substance abuser and you will hear the same, be it booze, tobacco, coke or junk."

So, when alcohol was affecting your life, you had no money, no family support, and no other mental illnesses? Did you have a roof over your head? A way of supporting yourself? I've known functioning alcoholics in my life, all who lived happily (or so they led themselves to believe) for decades while they drank themselves to death. You cannot compare them to the total devastation that life on the streets has on the homeless drug addicts. The prostitutes that were sexually abused at home, the children that grew up in poverty with abusive parents. After teaching in the inner-city, nothing surprises me anymore. The stories of a lot of the children in my classes were beyond imagination. There is always hope, but don't compare your life to the those that end up in the worst places. I might be a bleeding heart, but yours seems made of stone.

I do, however, think we need to make some hard choices. Are we going to provide real help for those that need it, or not? Someone close to me just recently stopped drinking because he was able to afford the thousands of dollars that a top-notch rehab costs. It took a couple of months and major after care for him to be successful. Are we ready to provide that to every drug addict? If not, then we might as well do as WM suggests and lock them all up and throw away the key. If that is the case then we should start with the drinking drivers. How about a minimum 2 year sentence for driving over the limit? Sounds good and fair to me.

Chris,
But then Campbell would be in jail where he belongs and he might miss his Olympics.

And on the subject of accountability, Campbell the drunk won an election afterwards and remained premier. And somehow I think he'll be one more in a long line of Liberals that left politics a much richer man then when he entered. So much for accountability.

Ah yes...densification...the double- edged sword.

No World Class City (cc) can refer to itself in the aforementioned reference without as many tall buildings as is possible to OCP and rezone...correct ?

Densification as a means to reduce the
ecological footprint and thus reduce environmental impact ? That's Bullshite ,....like the term "Expert" , and the only 100% re an " expert" is convincing the client that a high fee is justified...no guarantee otherwise. Densification should have along with it the "old psychology study" of what happens when you crowd rats...ie its not pleasant.

Densification is simply a money grab for Local Gov'ts with a minimum of public investment. Densification will create great City -States....electoral ridngs will change ,boundaries change, new ones created, , more MP's and MLA's ....and the rural areas will be further disenfranchised. Do we need BC to be any MORE Vancouver -centric?

Densification leads to cold impersonal turnkey/latchkey lifestyles...community in theory but not in practice. THINK STACKED CAVES .

Densification will simply attract more offshore investment, who will buy up these condo/apartments, maybe rent them out or simply have them sit empty. Regardless, the DCC's roll in as do the Property Taxes etc.

Locals " who -have- to -live -somewhere " will then be continually pushed to the periphery of densification...often based on affordability ,...ie the outlying areas. Often they will look at a $400,000 City Condo or a $400,000 detached house in the suburbs and choose the latter. With few exceptions , my own experience is most people ultimately want a detached home, especially those who want to start families.

"Gee let's build A-N-O-T-H-E-R High Rise and watch Condo King Bob R. sell it out in 5 minutes"...right...4Q....nice gig to milk a quasi captive buying herd.

Add more stress to the local Sewage treatment plants so they overflow in more concentrated fashion and feed the sea life.

Also, when the BIG ONE hits,...one big ugly mess morseo where the density is. If they don't pancake like the WTC....the amount of glass flying around for " Vancouver the City of Glass "(ie Doug Coupland's book) will have more decapitations than the French Revolution and other missing body parts. Seagulls thus swarm the West End ?

DENSIFICATION? all BS Very misguided ideology in my view, , if not masking a more subtle hidden agenda. Rapid Transit,ie RAV/Canada Line is an overpriced sugar coated pill to make it all more palatable. Solution? : Jobs nearby so you can work and live close to home?...HOW? They are re-developing the commercial and industrial areas and DIS-placing these jobs, NOT RE-placing these jobs...that is a problem all over....the only jobs that may result are people working from home in their concrete cave? ???

That's not realistic nor sustainable in my view...just more idealistic smoke and mirrors, and simply creating more residential space but NO-where to work , except ELSEWHERE, back to the same old problem, nouveau Catch 22 , 21 st Century version.

Sam Sullivan is quoted as having said.

Without some clarification a statement like this is meaningless and the mayor must know it.

If the rest of what he's saying and thinking rises to this level of significance then Vancouver and its homeless shouldn't be expecting any improvement soon.

Since there's no real plan to help or stop the mentally ill and those that wish to destroy themselves, perhaps a guarded high fence should go up around the Downtown East Side. Even if they're ticketed for defecating in the alleys or shooting-up on the sidewalks the tickets won't be paid. Even if each of them were given a million dollars in cash it wouldn't change anything. Many of these people are probably feral. The DTES has elevated social madness to an art. Make it into a tourist attraction with guarded bus tours.

Waiting for a complete change in world politics and the monetary system is futile. Out-of-town pontificators should come and see it. Walk around as I frequently do. As I and my fellow world travelers say, there's no parallel on earth. Even in Lagos, where women wash the feet of the market sellers for 7 cents a pop, there is not the self destruction that appears to be utterly rampant here. Anarchy lives; it's in the Downtown East Side. Illegal behaviour is obviously condoned. Draconian enforcement doesn't seem to even be considered. What can really be done, now?

There are a couple of neighbourhoods in India that come close realisticman - but there is a sullen hopelessness in the DTES that seems almost pervasive - as if it's of the 'air' down there. You get the sense of possibility in India which is entirely lacking in most of the residents of our nether regions.

I think Vancouver is in some fundamental way 'run' by organized crime - and has been for some time. I wonder if it might be possible to attack the problems of the DTES by focusing precisely upon that aspect of 'prosperity' that grows directly out of crime.

It's only by eliminating the illegal behavior (at all levels) in this city that progress can be made. It won’t work if all you ever tackle are its effects.

My view.

nquastel:

nquastel states that Scam Sullivan’s quest for densification will create more human interaction. Bullshit.

Someone should explain to this moron that working communities that have real human interaction are created when working families are able to live and work there in a sustainable manner for a generation or longer. It is this multi-generational establishment that creates communities that work and function and where compassion and a sense of communal responsibility foster. Adding mindless quantity will do nothing.

Vancouver is completely and utterly dysfunctional for one main reason: there is an absolute disconnect between the ability to make a living and the cost to live here. Try 75% of the mean average family income just to pay the mortgage on a crappy little bungalow. The average family income in Vancouver has decreased by 2.5% since 2002 while the cost of housing and gas has more than doubled! Vancouver is now the 6th lowest in median family income of 27 Canadian cities and by far the most expensive. Families in the Maritimes make more on average than those in B.C.!

The result: We have a city that is catering to transient elitists! They come here to live and milk the social infrastructure and either work elsewhere or leave in short order because they cannot make the money they need or want to stay. The only other demographic are old-timers that sit and mindlessly milk their ridiculous real estate holdings while they can.

What a sad state of affairs. Densification is rhetoric and nothing else! It is time to come out of this state of denial - this city and province are run by robber barons, real estate opportunists and short-sighted scoundrels and until we stop them nothing will change.

working slog

Well put.
This nonsense about

as an avenue toward any kind of solution is complete garbage. It is the only kind of thing people like Sam Sullivan understand though.

As long as these characters have an opportunity to share ideas over a glass of white wine and dinner at the OPUS Hotel they think they're actually doing something besides stroking each other’s egos.

Nothing more will come of idle crap like 'densification theory' than a lot more talk about what a wonderful world class city we have and a lot more hopelessness and homelessness for the people these folks pretend they care about.

Time to throw them all out.

Of course, the highly intellectual, academic theories have always been around. That's how we got the presently dominating market economic system that turns people into "commodities" to keep them constantly imbalanced, insecure and on the move, because that's the way to "wealth creation".

This the so called "competitive equilibrium of the marketplace." Especially, when the economists of the World Bank declare that slavery in Africa is an "accepted economic practice" and must continue for the sake of prosperity.

You should see these great minds when they're dislodged from their high thrones and have to fend for themselves, as they did in the refugee camps after WW2.

Surviving in the lowest, dirtiest, unskilled jobs. Living in filth, the professor going to bed with his boots on, the children starving because Mom had to sell their food ration on the blackmarket to buy cigarettes to supplement her daily ration of 2 "Sondermischung".

Constantly, yammering and arguing how good they had it before and that there was nothing wrong with nazism, or whatever.

On the other hand, the quarters of tradespeople were always well organized and kept, the children clean and dad always managed to do something for some extra food.

I was listening to this crap for 3 years and that was when I decided that no matter how much education I may have one day, I shall definitely learn a trade. I was 28 when I could do it, in Vancouver, apprenticing to an old English cabinetmaker for .75 cents and hour, and never looked back.

Those days always come back to me when I hear these high flying theories from people who are hooked on ideological claptrap solutions, without any practical life experience. They can not see realities and always maintain that the theories are great, Nirvana is just around the corner, we only need a bit more patience and everything will turn out OK.

Look at the intellectual makeup of the US and of our governments and start crying.

The majority of our ministers, including the head honcho, couldn't fight their ways out of paper bags, judging by the ideological idiocies they preach.

Ed Deak.

Hey Ed,

I hope your best friend is doing well in doggy heaven. Your loss is Heaven's gain.

I'm sorry you've lost a good friend. They are a rare breed - genuine friends like that.

slog.

We are at a very precarious period in OUR history, with BC lieberals and OUR Democratic Right to know being subverted by CanWest’s non media
WE can start by organizing in OUR Communities real views by real people as I think the majority of people are finally waking up to these Vermin/Parasites/leaches.
WE need a coup/reform/purge!
Coyote hope you don't mind my pushing your www as it is very informative!
http://coyote-thepeoplesvoice.blogspot.com/

As so often before, liberty has been wounded in the house of its friends. Liberty in the wild and freakish hands of fanatics has once more, as frequently in the past, proved the effective helpmate of autocracy and the twin-brother of tyranny: Otto Hermann Kahn - Speech at the University of Wisconsin

WS.....If there's a doggie heaven, she's there among the princesses.

We had many dogs before, but never one like her.

Cheers, Ed.

We are at a very precarious period in OUR history, with BC lieberals and OUR Democratic Right to know being subverted by CanWest’s non media
WE can start by organizing in OUR Communities real views by real people as I think the majority of people are finally waking up to these Vermin/Parasites/leaches.
WE need a coup/reform/purge!
Coyote hope you don't mind my pushing your www as it is very informative!
http://coyote-thepeoplesvoice.blogspot.com/

As so often before, liberty has been wounded in the house of its friends. Liberty in the wild and freakish hands of fanatics has once more, as frequently in the past, proved the effective helpmate of autocracy and the twin-brother of tyranny: Otto Hermann Kahn - Speech at the University of Wisconsin

damn sorry 4 dd post

Sorry to hear about your dog Ed. I'm sure she had a wonderful life. May we all be so fortunate.

I don't believe that complex arguments can justify any explanation of homelessness, poverty and a lack of food for men women and children who live like this day in and day out, particularly in cold weather.

My wife told me she thought the situation in Africa was worse (which I suppose it is), but my thought was, if we are having discussions of what is the most worse of worse, when the better of the worse (local) is a disgraceful example of our collective inhumanity in a society of more than enough, than we are really in dire straights as ethical and spiritual beings.

Every single one of us should feel a collective sense of shame for this disgraceful injustice. What the Mayor thinks, or what the Premier thinks is irrelevant when you see someone at 5 am pushing a shopping cart through wet slushy cold with footwear riddled with holes. I saw such a person a few weeks ago, and realized how much I was disconnected in my humanity, I didn't know what to say or do, so I just walked by and felt like shit.

I remember the look on the man's face, it looked like the faces of the people in the film archives of the Jews in the concentration camps. Dead people walking.

I don't want to be a grinch, but collectively (and certainly politically), I believe I can say without hesitation that when it comes to helping those who desperately need our help that collectively we have become a society of rotten bastards.

I am hoping to convince my family to take the money we spend every year on Christmas 'stuff' and hand it over to someone or to a family that needs it more than we do. It depresses me significantly to think that this battle amongst good people I care about may be an uphill struggle.

Well done Glen. Nice to read you here again. And Merry Christmas.

Good stuff, working slog, Fiat and others. I can't help but think, while reading this thread, that everything seems to be going exactly according to Gordie's warped ideological plan. It's just a shame that the "screw you Jack, I'm alright " types and the uninformed who get their info strictly from CanWest Goebbels will probably vote them in again. As for densification, I still say the solution is simple: If you don't build it, they won't come. Sadly, this won't happen as long as there is money to be made by the provincial government's puppet masters.

What it comes down to, obviously, is greed, plain and simple. What a shame that the greedy are ruining what used to be a beautiful place. Merry Christmas.

As long as thread keeps going on, I might as well mention that I speak from personal experience.

I was homeless for 5 out of 6 years after WW2, in Austria and England. I did have a room for about a year in Austria, in 1947-48, but then back to the barrack in England until 1951

Much of post war Europe was a sea of ruins on account of the Allied terror bombing of the cities, as they couldn't hit military targets. For years, people were living in wrecked houses and holes in the ground, left from the basements of bombed buildings, or in the most atrocious conditions, in leftover military and prison camps.

There were about 4 million homeless refugees nobody wanted, including myself.
I lived out of rucksacks and suitcases in rooms jammed with peoples, even in England, where there was a very bad housing shortage, in an ex Canadian army hut, without insulation, concrete floor, a bag of straw for a bed, not even a wardrobe, only a table and a few chairs for furniture, while I was working and studying .

For 3 years after the war, we were starving and surviving on bare survival rations, but even under the most atrocious conditions, I've never seen anybody sleeping in the streets, or begging. Everybody had some kind of roof over their heads and received some food rations. It wasn't the case of "those who can afford it".

Why? Because it was before this great "competitive globalized capitalist" society that treats people like disposable commodities and plans for their early death so they won't be a "burden on the taxpayers".

At least in those days there were no stock and money markets, and businesses still had some conscience, apart from foaming from the mouth, demanding more and more, filling their pockets with benefits stolen from the mouths of others and calling it " wealth creation".

When will people wake up to the brutal fact that this corporate conspiracy is, in reality, a war against humanity and the environment, trying to satisfy the insatiable greed of a few, dictated by criminal, pseudo religious economic theories legalizing crime, enslavement and mass murder by hunger and sickness?

Ed Deak.

Perhaps governments can't solve everything. But your comments about post-WW2 England, Ed, made me wonder how much of that egalitarian effort was led by Attlee's Labour government compared to how much was lost during Thatcher's Conservative government.

Governments can at least set the policies. What saddens me most is that if one level of our governments attempts a policy of bringing decent social assistance to the poorest of its citizens, such a government subjected to bitter attack; such a government will soon to disappear.

Why? Because looking out for all our citizens becomes a class war. It's a war of attrition, where the casualties are created by hunger, sickness, and addictions.

In this ongoing war, the good guys seldom win. I'm still trying to understand why.

Thanks Ed,
I hope people here read what you've written, not just this above here, but ALL you've written.

And I hope at least some of us start to think about the place this insanity is taking us and begin to work for change.
It doesn't 'have' to be this way.

I hope you and your family will have a fine holiday together.

GW

Great insight Mary-I keep asking myself that same question. I thought this has got to be easy enough, just point the cameras to the problem. My conversation with my wife about relative poverty (and she is a very compassionate person) told me that maybe some people don't want to see, because they don't want to believe its true.

Many Germans could smell the death camps as I understand but chose not to believe it was going on. I believe that denial and such psychological dysfuntions are primarily linked to fear.

Why are we afraid? Why are we afraid to help the unfortunate?

When I first quit drinking in the late eighties, my friend suggested I go to meetings on the east side. While people rich or poor with drug and alcohol problems are devastated, but these people going to meetings really had it rough. Yet, they were probably the most 'positive' meetings I attended.

Bit by bit these individuals would improve and you would see a new article of 'used clothing' from time to time.

But many left and did not return. For a while I thought they had gone to meetings where I also went, over in the Quilchena area where the Hollywood actors, ad executives, lawyers and doctors went. I was around 30 at the time (could be I was from Victoria?).

I soon determined that these people hadn't moved on up in their recovery, but rather would out on the street again using.

Yes, Glen there isn't a Santa Claus.

BC-M.....There was some rationing, but no great poverty and hunger in England, the like we've experienced in Europe. Housing shortage, yes, but even in our hut, we had lots to eat, which was the main thing on our minds.

We were very grateful to the Attlee govt. for allowing us into the country, albeit it was the beginning of the Cold War, in 1948, with the Berlin blockade still going on and they needed a new "foreign legion", which was our purpose. 4 of my group of 6 were ex-Waffen SS, none of them war criminals, but all of us with Russian front experience.

Nevertheless, it gave me the opportunity for some, now long disappeared, Cambridge education, which was a tremendous eye opener for me, having grown up in fascism.

I don't think the world will ever again see such atmosphere of awakening and hope as we have experienced then, in those early post-war years.

The difference is that only a very few of us have still kept up that spirit, while the world seems to be going downhill to self destruction, led by crooks and fools, lapping up the lies thrown to them.

Ed Deak.

This site is very worrisome!
http://www.cfoss.com/
We have to trade rather than buy (with the system money) local is this possible?
Micro finance with OUR new bucks
Do we all need cell phones?
start a Local news papers
Stop buying STUFF
Buy from Sally Ann why always new?
Someone start a local Farmers Produce delivery! In the 50's we had a vegetable and fresh sea food truck come to our house every wed!
Maybe crazy ideas but "Hey"

A lighter site for truth.
http://cockburnproject.net/

On the subject of poverty, substance abuse etc.

In our own extended family, we have a person who is recovering from substance abuse. Suffice it to say, they are employed in the NON -Private Sector, their Employer is very supportive and paying for the lion's share of the several thousands of $$$ cost of a Private Clinic treatment. Other options don't really exist.

It is amazing how one party can have quite a resonating effect on the extended family. However, much is also learned in breaking down the problem . Often these issues are ABUSE vs. ADDICTION. A person can " abuse " something like alcohol , get a hangover, regret it, but not be addicted.

However, other are predisposed to crave the substance, their body and its genetic make-up actually triger mechanisms "for more"...requiring ever-higher amounts to achieve the desired effect. aka ADDICTION . Again, different from abuse. In this DeTox...the Addict is told that they can never go back to their old ways...their bodies have previously built up a progression of need and tolerance, but after DeTox... after the body has been almost programmed back to square one prior to addiction ....one fall off the wagon can overwhelm their bodies' biological systems with a floodgate burst of further "off the wagon" incidents to the literal point of death.

This family member is given a support network to attend outside the clinic , but told ONE fall off the wagon and the door is closed,PERIOD, don't ever come back. In addition, a book of past clients is kept of those who have fallen "off the wagon" advice not heeded...R.I P. mode.

This family member is hopefully on the road to complete recovery, but there are some old issues which are being revisited and causing some concern in our extended family.

In the end, Society can only do so much, or be blamed for so much,in either theory or reality, but ultimately it is the INDIVIDUAL who has to both start the journey and continue the journey,and thus WE , as a society, also comprised of individuals with our own individual " Life stories " and " Life experiences " are often only somewhere in the middle.

One of our TYEE elders, Ed/Fiat Lux , has certainly shown to be have been poor and homeless,ie after WW II , and perhaps could have easily chosen the fork in the road of personal choice to end up on Skid Row and R.I.P. Perhaps Ed's life story and journey of trial , tribulation and ultimate triumph via choosing this other fork in the road with a Marquee of " PERSERVANCE AND PERSISTENCE " is an inspirational lesson for us all,..... past , present and future.

That's an egregious misrepresentation of what Ed wrote maestro. Why would you think anyone needed your spin to understand Ed's clear and concise story in the context he told it?

Ed wasn't trying to spin a Sunday school story, and you know it. Putting your own compromised ‘spin’ on someone else’s experience is both dishonest and uncalled for.

They should have an ‘ethics’ police on these threads.

Bingo.

And far more "authoritative" men than you or I have made this observation, though few have done so publicly (although I recall Mike Harcourt making one-off comments to this effect a few years ago).

nightbloom ... In many ways, the simple math tells you that your view about organized crime must be close to the truth.

There's $6 Billion a year in illicit cash sales of BC Bud alone ... and perhaps double that amount if all the other narcotics are included ... all cash, all unaudited, all eventually going into organized crime.

That can distort a city, an island, a province. How could we think it doesn't??

And yet twice, recently, respected journalists have gone into print scoffing at the RCMP Sergeant who warned us that organized crime in this province had reached critical mass.

Is it smart to pretend it isn't happening?

I just had dinner with an artist that came here from eastern Canada thirty years ago. His partner came from Poland, via the prairies. The other couple were also from the prairies and Vancouver. The homeless/unemployed subject came up. One is a doctor on Commercial Drive, she said that most (at leats 90% are from somewhere other than Vancover, the artist said that he has no sympathy for those that wish to destroy themselves. This is not an uncommon viewpoint. Seemingly socially concious people have been victimised by crime and the continuous pleas for more social programmes, of some kind, to alieviate the homeless and unemployed problems are not sympathetic at all any more.

The question often comes up; why are none of these people from the new-immigrant communities? The homeless and the self-destructive are all North American born.

Who should be responsible, the taxpayers of the city, the province, the country, or the individuals themselves?

These are brutal questions that many people one would consider to be compassionate and left-wing thinkers are now asking.

please excuse the bad writing - but, I think you get my drift.

Realisticman,
Let me tell you a little story.

When I was a student at UBC my wife and I lived in a suite upstairs in a house at the corner of 6th and Balaclava. The house was owned by an immigrant family – they’d been in Canada maybe 10 years at the time. There were two suites upstairs, ours and another one where another immigrant lady and her husband lived – there was just a thin wall between us and we shared the bathroom. She was about 60 at the time – I helped her study to qualify for her Canadian citizenship and I’m proud to say she passed and became a Canadian.

We were there for more than a year and we got to know pretty much everything about the two families – the owners and the people that had the suite immediately behind ours.

At a party in the spring my wife and I encountered a recent immigrant – he may have been Polish too (not that it matters) – who told pretty much the same story about the trustworthy, hard-working diligent immigrants and the lazy indolent dishonest Canadians.

I let him get really wound up with his little diatribe and then I told him about the fellow who owned the house we lived in: about how he wouldn’t turn on the heat in our upstairs suite and how I ended up in the hospital with Pneumonia. About how his wife was running a full-time neighbourhood day care while she collected UIC.

About how the fellow in the suite behind us threw his wife around on the weekends when he came home drunk; about how I had to help her get medical help and advise her about contacting a lawyer and the police.

It shut the Polish fellow up. He picked up his jacket and left the party.

Anecdotes are interesting, but hardly the material to base social policy or a philosophy of life on.

Do you get my drift?

And now for something completely different.

This is behind subscription at the New York Times but I'll do you a favour and post it all - in two bits, it's long:

New York Times December 25 2006
Helping the Poor, the British Way
By PAUL KRUGMAN

It’s the season for charitable giving. And far too many Americans, particularly children, need that charity.

Scenes of a devastated New Orleans reminded us that many of our fellow citizens remain poor, four decades after L.B.J. declared war on poverty. But I’m not sure whether people understand how little progress we’ve made. In 1969, fewer than one in every seven American children lived below the poverty line. Last year, although the country was far wealthier, more than one in every six American children were poor.

And there’s no excuse for our lack of progress. Just look at what the British government has accomplished over the last decade.

Although Tony Blair has been President Bush’s obedient manservant when it comes to Iraq, Mr. Blair’s domestic policies are nothing like Mr. Bush’s. Where Mr. Bush has sought to privatize the social safety net, Mr. Blair’s Labor government has defended and strengthened it. Where Mr. Bush and his allies accuse anyone who mentions income distribution of “class warfare,” the Blair government has made a major effort to reverse the surge in inequality and poverty that took place during the Thatcher years.

And Britain’s poverty rate, if measured American-style — that is, in terms of a fixed poverty line, not a moving target that rises as the nation grows richer — has been cut in half since Labor came to power in 1997.

Britain’s war on poverty has been led by Gordon Brown, the chancellor of the exchequer and Mr. Blair’s heir apparent. There’s nothing exotic about his policies, many of which are inspired by American models. But in Britain, these policies are carried out with much more determination.

For example, Britain didn’t have a minimum wage until 1999 — but at current exchange rates Britain’s minimum wage rate is now about twice as high as ours. Britain’s child benefit is more generous than America’s child tax credit, and it’s available to everyone, even those too poor to pay income taxes. Britain’s tax credit for low-wage workers is similar to the U.S. earned-income tax credit, but substantially larger.

And don’t forget that Britain’s universal health care system ensures that no one has to fear going without medical care or being bankrupted by doctors’ bills.

The Blair government hasn’t achieved all its domestic goals. Income inequality has been stabilized but not substantially reduced: as in America, the richest 1 percent have pulled away from everyone else, though not to the same extent. The decline in child poverty, though impressive, has fallen short of the government’s ambitious goals. And the government’s policies don’t seem to have helped a persistent underclass of the very poor.

Here's the rest of it. Maybe a couple of lessons here that the great privatizers in Victoria and Ottawa could learn from. You think?

But there’s no denying that the Blair government has done a lot for Britain’s have-nots. Modern Britain isn’t paradise on earth, but the Blair government has ensured that substantially fewer people are living in economic hell. Providing a strong social safety net requires a higher overall rate of taxation than Americans are accustomed to, but Britain’s tax burden hasn’t undermined the economy’s growth.

What are the lessons to be learned from across the pond?

First, government truly can be a force for good. Decades of propaganda have conditioned many Americans to assume that government is always incompetent — and the current administration has done its best to turn that into a self-fulfilling prophecy. But the Blair years have shown that a government that seriously tries to reduce poverty can achieve a lot.

Second, it really helps to have politicians who are serious about governing, rather than devoting themselves entirely to amassing power and rewarding cronies.

While researching this article, I was startled by the sheer rationality of British policy discussion, as compared with the cynical posturing that passes for policy discourse in George Bush’s America. Instead of making grandiose promises that are quickly forgotten — like Mr. Bush’s promise of “bold action” to confront poverty after Hurricane Katrina — British Labor politicians propose specific policies with well-defined goals. And when actual results fall short of those goals, they face the facts rather than trying to suppress them and sliming the critics.

The moral of my Christmas story is that fighting poverty isn’t easy, but it can be done. Giving in to cynicism and accepting the persistence of widespread poverty even as the rich get ever richer is a choice that our politicians have made. And we should be ashamed of that choice.

MERRY CHISTMAS

The moral of the story is that the purpose of an elected government is governing for the benefit of all, and not becoming servants of ruling classes. E.g. "Business friendly"

I repeat: Wealth can not be created, only taken.

We have about 6,000 years of written human history that shows that the power or ruling classes always comes from energy stolen from others, usually through religious beliefs and now from ideologies and pseudo ideological economic theories, using the same phoney scriptural dogmas that have subjugated and impoverished billions over the ages.

In short, poverty can not be eliminated without strong governmental intervention into economics.

At the same time, governments must also be closely watched that they don't become dictatorships, as they are becoming now, right here in BC and in Canada, making secret deals to sell the country for 30 pieces of silver, or less. As in the case of BC Rail, et al.......

Merry Christmas to all..........

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Unfortuantely, as is becoming more commonplace by certain TYEE posters, the basic point is missed , pursue ESP attempts, especially if one is using some real life parable.

We learn many of these lessons when young, and it becomes more apparent as we get older, that the journey to recovery is based on the addict /victim taking the all- important free -will first step. That was the point I was trying to put across with my example within my own extended family.

Unfortunately, a point is reached that ostracization may be the only other option if things don't resolve themselves.

Also, Ed's story is one most of my own family can relate to, having left a war torn Europe as WW II was ending...but in the end surviving and ultimately prospering and contributing to society and passing this legacy onto their children...and their childrens children.....

Realisticman's story probably best summarizes the issue, most of the problem, seems to have domestic roots. To me that's more an indictment of our so called western society and all the injection of liberalism by the Leftie pushers. The Leftie liberals of course twist this around , blame others, and never look in the mirror.

We live in a society that is looking towards outright banning Trans Fats in foods, yet also actively funding safe injection sites ?

What does that tell you?

-- Merry Christmas --

West, you say, "Anecdotes are interesting, but hardly the material to base social policy or a philosophy of life on.".

True enough but neither should social policy be formulated by ideologues that still imagine there is a class war to fight in Canada. There's a contining howl from the left that excuses bad and criminal social behaviour with the call to smash the system and re-distribute the wealth. Causes of problems have to be engaged but symptoms should also be expediently addressed.

I wrote my anecdote above (I just had dinner...) not because it was extraordinary but because its theme is one that is increasingly frequently heard; and not heard only from the financially comfortable but from the 30-odd year olds that work hard, too.

These people select who they will vote for based on how those candidates will approach and formulate policies that they have now deemed proper to guide our society. It can be forcefully argued that the general sentiment is shifting to the right. Many people across the spectrum of compassion are fed up and feel no guilt or obligations towards those in society that do not want to help themselves. Similar to the parent that forces the lazy twenty year old out of the house, 'for their own good', more and more, people are expressing the same sentiment towards the able-bodied who appear to be social misfits and self-destroyers.

realisticman you are out of touch with the real reality in this world which is the breakup of the social network that any healthy society is built upon!
BC for one, with Gordo and his crew of mercenaries making it almost impossible to apply for welfare, and when they do get welfare the shelter allowance is only about 450 a month, an illegal basement suite with no fire exit comes in at about 7 hundred and 50 dollars. Do you think the law that is in the by-law books will ever be enforced to ban basement suites? That would probably put another 50 to 75 thousand people on the homeless list!
A great majority of these people who are homeless and on welfare have a mental disability or for some other reason are unemployable.
Sure there are some people who do abuse this right of all people but they are only a small minority.
If you want to get into the real criminals in this the so-called elite society just look at our so-called elected officials privatizing, outsourcing, bringing in Third World country slave laborers at four bucks an hour on the RAV line, yes it's still going on.
Take a walk down to RAV line one day and just see, as they will not allow you to hang around and watch!
The final bill to the taxpayers will show that these people worked for 27 bucks an hour. Who is going to get the rest of the 23 bucks an hour?
One of my very best friends who is working on another site (condo block used to SRO) says that there has been for deaths on the RAV line so far but nothing on the news or in the media? WHY?
Another Gordo scandal ridden cover-up with the complacent CanWest rag?

Correction
Four deaths

The long and short of it is that the presently taught and enforced rule of so called "economic competition" is the legalization of crime. We can see this every day in the reports of disgusting profits, most of it stolen from the pockets of the public, and governments making secret deals to sell their own peoples.

People are not necessarily unemployable because they may be mentally ill, or lazy.

I have known many who have been born with certain talents, to do certain jobs, and they were brilliant and those jobs, but they weren't fit to do anything else. When those jobs and professions are "outsourced", in other words sold abroad so that middlemen can screw both the producers and users, millions become unhappy, unemployable and unemployed.

While all other life forms are programmed to fulfill certain tasks, the human race is the only life form without a sole, inborn life purpose, but with individual millions, and unless economic systems fulfill this simple fact, society will self destruct.

The single largest professional group of my Vancouver customers were doctors and I had chance to pick the brains of many, who even 30-40 years ago admitted that the main reason for many physical illnesses was stress, where the body self destructs to remove the causes.

I had some vey highly placed officials and business executives admitting that they were very unhappy in their positions and would gladly have signed up as apprentices in my shop.

As I keep repeating, human labour doesn't cost anything to an economy, but its misuse causes major problems and we can see what they are and how they grow.

Economic competition destroys both humanity and the environment, but co-operation builds better economies and
human existence.

Ed Deak.

I'm confused by the posters who feel that if we increase urban density (ie. housing supply) then real estate prices will go up.

BC Dude, much of what you write is probably true. What I mostly wrote, in the past two posts, was a report. I reported that the wind is moving to the right of the socio-political spectrum amongst artists, doctors, teachers and small business people. That's what I have been hearing from people I know or that I have met - one of them is a homeless artist that crashes at friends places. She too is becoming more right-wing in her philosophy of dealing with many social issues. That's the way the wind's blowing as far as I can tell and it seems to be blowing stronger all the time.

realisticman:
Did you read the Krugman article?

I'm not trying to argue with you, or maestro - in fact I probably agree with you that people are turning inward and becoming more and more selfish.

But I think it's wrong not to speak up when people say it has to be that way - whether it is a professional, an artist, a politician or an Indian Chief who makes those kinds of comments. I've been saying it since I went to college and I still think it's the right thing to do.

I have probably lost friends over the fact that I'm outspoken but speaking up to confront lies and selfishness is about all anyone can do. I wasn’t the one who left that party in a huff and I still have some of the friends who were with me that night.

I think it's immoral to sit back and nod and pretend such narrow and simplistic attitudes are not corroding the structure of our society as much as the drugs and the greed and the selfishness are.

It's time we stopped talking about what the socio-political spectrum is doing and started making a difference ourselves - and in changing our attitudes as much as anything else.

I accept no excuses for right wing behavior from anyone. And it’s not enough to just roll with the punches either maestro.

It's time to speak up or we're all going to be poorer for it.

Beacon Hill:

Re: " Densification will result in higher real estate prices" .

Let's take this from the contrarian point. Densification will not stop prices from going higher.

Near where I live, I have noted real estate prices almost triple for land that was densified, after the first wave of densification started approx 3-4 years ago.

It's always market driven...whatever the market will bear....densification also often based on the DeBeers like "land shortage" created. I vividly recall a nearby townhouse project about 3-4 years ago with a starting price about $247,000....a few months later the "4" was replaced with a taped over number "7" thus $277,000.

Thus in a hot market the densification argument is simply smoke and mirrors... does not do much for affordability at all.

G West. Perhaps I was wrong, the young man who rents an apartment on 2nd Avenue was complaining about the junkies that continually break into the secure parking garage below his suite. His car has been broken into and vandalised five times in the past year. He says that he has lost patience with the junkies and, "...they should round them all up...". You know how it goes. He's struggling to get his business going and he's very upset.

I know that you would have explained that the reason for the crimes is rooted in neo-con politics, globalization and big-business greed but, perhaps it's not trendy, I expressed sympathy for the VICTIM not the criminal.

West, I did read the Times piece. One wonders whether Brown's going to take over after Tony but he's not that well liked. They do have a way to go yet though. BBC today reports: "Alcohol-related deaths and illness are an increasing problem in the UK.

Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.

And hospital admissions for alcoholic liver disease have more than doubled in a decade, reaching 35,400 in 2004/5."

Well, in general I don't think it's necessarily a problem to look at causes do you? Nevertheless, maybe we can leave the world-wide situation for another day.

I think that any construction which attempts to demonize a particular ‘kind’ of person for a specific sort of effect is doomed from the start.

Immigrants from, let's say Ontario, are no more responsible for the faults of the society we have created here in British Columbia than immigrants who came here from Greece, Russian or Poland are the only victims of the pathological effects of the way we live together either.

It was that construction in your little story that struck a chord for me. Most analogies and generalizations are false, even; it might surprise you, among leftists like me. I think the key emotion we tend to forget these days is empathy, not sympathy.

We've more than enough of feeling sorry for ourselves and more than enough of feeling sorry for others - it's time to get things done. We used to have a lot of break and enters in our community until the neighbours here started paying a little more attention to what was going on in their neighbours' yards and a little less upon how high their fences were and how strong their locks.

I thought the lesson from England was an interesting counterpoint to the remarks I'd made about your generalizations about problems and their genesis and their solution.

I might not even disagree with the idea of 'rounding' people (who happen to drug addicts) up if I thought there was any kind of comprehensive treatment and education program available to help them once they’d been herded.

For the most part though, that construction usually just means 'out of sight, out of mind'.

Don't think I mentioned neo cons or globalization in a negative light once did I?

These are questions of community and questions about how we live together. If we start getting them right, the other things might just look after themselves.

However, as long as dialogue is replaced by blaming and victimization things are just going to get worse until we're all behind gates and clutching handguns.

maestro:

Sorry, but I don't understand your argument. Are you saying densification caused the real estate boom?

Beacon Hill:

The argument that you can make housing more affordable by densifying, ie putting more square footage of BUILDING on a given square footage of BUILDING LOT makes housing cheaper is BS. That only works if there is some rule and regulation that limits the cost of the living unit, which of course won't happen.

Densification won't cause the real estate boom...on the contrary, densification benefits FROM the real estate boom.

Developers were into pre-sales when building hi-rises, but apparently now they don't want to be locked into prices but now apparently wish to ride a buoyant market and will increase the prices to whatever the market will bear.

I am finding many of the newer higher density units costs are on par with an older established single family home, hence the " affordability is proportional to density " theory is often not a valid conclusion.

maestro:

There is a rule in place - that of supply and demand. Condo prices in Vancouver are extremely high. They would cost far more, though, if there were fewer of them.

b.c.mary
Because the survival-of-the-fittest instinct rules. You can't eliminate a congenital instinct so you educate and try to teach that the common good should precede. This will take millions of years and I guess we'll have done ourselves in by then. Sorry.

Beacon Hill:

Law of Supply and Demand is, of course, very true. However, many of these densification-based units have various gurus who track the real estate market, ie condos etc,... and its many variables .

One thing I have read is the calculated pool of buyers at each level of affordability, ie those that can pay say $300,000 for a given unit...... those who can pay $400,000,.... those who can pay $500,000 etc. etc.

Also, one other statistic I read is that in say the U.S. every $1000 added to the cost of housing displaces approx 300,000 potential purchasers.

The retail costs of residential units will cater to those who will pay the most ie a condo developer will up the NON - FIXED asking
price to cater to the deeper pockets. If the market shifts,ie downward , then the next -lowest pool of buyers will be catered to.

Densification also has longer lead time..ie a High Rise is a longer term project...and in a hot market, as I mentioned before, the developers will increase the price from its original retail projections. On a 100 unit project, adding $10,000 to the price of each unit seems small, but results in $1,000,000 additional gross profit over and above the original profitability price.

If the supply was cut....would the prices rise? ..Yes and No. The prices would rise but then there would be a limited pool of buyers at that price level.

Regardless, much of this is simply the old herd mentality simply taken advantage of. People are willing to pay much more than when the market was slower just a few short years ago....never ceases to amaze me.

Supply, Demand and Affordability.

One of the reasons for vibrant real estate sales, other than any herd mentality, is that interest rates are incredibly low. Real estate purchases are usually based on monthly affordability calculated on interest rates, rather than sticker prices.

Any decline in prices that could appear as more affordability can be offset by even small increases in interest rates.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/election2005/candidates/pdf/financing/mayor/Sullivan_Sam.pdf
Corporate take over of "OUR DEMOCRACY and OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS as Individuals"
This is our future if we don't start doing something peaceful like boycott these so called corrupt Corporations.
How many people went out and bought from Wal-Mart (Walton family worth 88 billion$ which buys a lot of politicians Why did Sam ok a Wal-Mart when most people voted "NO" and other big box stores?
Me personally I bought local mostly handmade.
This CHRISTMAS was happier and debt free!
HAPPY NEW YEAR don't drive drunk like our great leader Gordo MADD's poster child!

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