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Leg Raid Hearing Intrigue
What we learned about star witness, rail deals, RCMP conduct.
Tantalizing glimpses
"Take nothing on its looks; take everything on evidence. There's no better rule." -- Charles Dickens, Great Expectations, 1861
We know a lot more about the Dec. 28, 2003 police raid on the B.C. legislature following last week's four-day B.C. Supreme Court hearing into a defence application for disclosure of evidence.
But we still don't know nearly enough to figure out what the hell happened or why it's taken almost exactly three years to get to the still-planned Dec. 4 trial date for former B.C. Liberal government ministerial aides David Basi and Bob Virk and former government communications staffer Aneal Basi.
The disclosure hearing provided lots of fascinating teasers as to what the trial might expose -- from police surveillance of then-finance minister Gary Collins as he dined with a U.S. bidder for the privatization of B.C. Rail in a fancy downtown Vancouver restaurant to a defence question as to why the $1 billion B.C. Rail deal itself wasn't cancelled.
There's also new evidence from both in and outside the courtroom about Erik Bornman, the controversial former lobbyist and ex-Paul Martin aide. Bornman has turned Crown witness against Basi and Virk, who police allege were bribed by Bornman, leading to breach of trust charges against them.
And defence lawyers raised for the first time the possibility of a mistrial or a miscarriage of justice as they argued for more disclosure.
Every which way, indeed
And yet like a Russian matryoshka nesting doll, there's always something more underneath that changes the picture dramatically.
The biggest challenge for both journalists and the public -- not to mention Justice Elizabeth Bennett, who will preside over the case -- is in following what is undoubtedly the most complex political scandal British Columbia has ever seen.
To get some idea of the scope of what the RCMP call "Project Every Which Way," consider that there are more than 100,000 pages of evidence, including dozens of wiretap transcriptions, interview statements, police notes, bank statements and tax records of the accused and untold government documents.
The police organizational chart alone was said in court to have filled several walls and included even embattled RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, whose approval was needed for wiretaps involving questions of Parliamentary privilege.
Justice Bennett, who acquitted former B.C. premier Glen Clark in 2002 in another high profile breach of trust case, herself said at one point in the proceedings on Oct. 30 that she would: "Probably be a very good juror because I don't remember any of the media reports on this case."
Having attended a good portion of the four-day hearing, it's easy to have some sympathy for not only the judge -- who will rule on the disclosure application on Nov. 14 -- but all involved.
Yet this case is critically important. It involves allegations of influence peddling in a $1 billion privatization deal, wiretapping that accidentally included Premier Gordon Campbell, intentional police surveillance of the finance minister, allegations of police misleading a Supreme Court justice and much, much more.
So to try and find some discernable direction that helps explain "Project Every Which Way" it's best to break down the new information into component parts.
1. ERIK BORNMAN, CROWN'S STAR WITNESS
The Crown's key witness, Erik Bornman, was once again the subject of considerable speculation in the defence lawyers' application for disclosure of evidence.
That application, filed by Bob Virk's lawyer Kevin McCullough, David Basi's lawyer Michael Bolton and Aneal Basi's lawyer Joseph Doyle, provided new information about Bornman's upcoming central role in the trial.
Bornman was nicknamed "Spiderman" after entering a locked federal Liberal Party office -- which allegedly contained the B.C. membership list during the time of the leadership battle between Paul Martin and Jean Chretien -- through the ceiling.
Bornman was registered as a lobbyist for OmniTRAX, the U.S.-based rail company that bid for B.C. Rail against eventual winner CN Rail. Another bidder, CP Rail, bailed out of the bidding because it claimed there was a "clear breach" of fairness in the process, due to other bidders receiving confidential information.
Bornman is alleged in police documents to have provided bribes to David Basi and Bob Virk in exchange for confidential government information on the B.C. Rail bidding process. Those allegations were made in a police "Information To Obtain" search warrant application made public previously and have not been proven in court.
Belated disclosures alleged
The defence application filed Oct. 30, 2006, states that the special prosecutor, Bill Berardino, provided a disclosure package to the defence on Sept. 16, 2005 that "included a number of significant materials which had previously not been disclosed."
Among them was, the application states, "A previously undisclosed 25-page statement taken from Erik Bornman from Dec. 28, 2003."
McCullough pointed out in B.C. Supreme Court that Dec. 28, 2003, was "the day of the searches. It obviously should have been disclosed previously."
On that day Bornman's home office for lobbying firm Pilothouse Public Affairs in Vancouver was also searched by police, as was Pilothouse's Victoria office run by lobbyist and former Vancouver Province political columnist Brian Kieran, who will also reportedly testify as a Crown witness against the accused.
[Pilothouse closed down in the months following the raid, to be replaced by K&E Public Affairs in 2005, a joint venture of Kieran and Jamie Elmhirst, currently president of the Liberal Party of Canada in B.C.]
In April 2006 Kieran announced his "inevitable retirement" after a well-paid career lobbying the B.C. Liberals and before that, the B.C. NDP government on behalf of major multinational forest companies and others.
As The Tyee reported at that time, a large volume of information related to several search warrants was released to the media, including allegations that Bornman and Kieran paid almost $30,000 to the accused in exchange for confidential government information on part of the B.C. Rail deal. K&E also appears to have closed shop.]
Questions linger
There are many questions arising from the disclosure that Bornman made a 25-page statement to police.
Why would Bornman make such an extended statement to police the very day his home and business were searched?
Did he have legal counsel present?
Had Bornman been aware previously of the police "Project Every Which Way" investigation?
Did Bornman make an offer to turn Crown witness that very day, or even previously?
Or did "Spiderman" fold like Superman on ironing day in the face of police pressure?
None of these questions can be answered before the trial but they raise intriguing possibilities.
Faces legal hearing
Bornman was also creating news while the court proceedings were being heard.
I reported on Nov. 3 in 24 Hours that Bornman will be under the scrutiny of the Law Society of Upper Canada in Toronto starting Nov. 21, where the budding lawyer faces a special admissibility hearing on his request to be admitted to the bar.
Global TV's Keith Baldrey has since then reported that Bornman's lawyers are attempting to have the Law Society hearing held in private despite common practice that such proceedings are open to the public and media.
In 2006 Bornman was a $1,300 per week articling law student at the prestigious law firm of McCarthy Tetrault, which donated $118,000 to the 2003 Paul Martin Liberal leadership campaign that Bornman was a player in.
But in July 2006, Bornman resigned his post following an unknown person laying a complaint against him with the Law Society, as I reported exclusively in 24 Hours Aug. 1.
The Society has a "Good Character Requirement" that asks if the applicant has been involved in criminal proceedings, fraud or other misconduct.
One of Bornman's Toronto lawyers, Nikiforus Iatros, refused comment when I contacted him Nov. 2.
McCarthy Tetrault's Communications Director Doug Maybee said in an e-mail to The Tyee Nov. 8 that Bornman has not returned to his student articling position at the firm, leaving open the question as to where he might be articling.
The other lawyer working for Bornman, according to Law Society documents, is Bryan Finlay, Q.C., a senior counsel at WeirFoulds LLP.
Finlay has also represented WestJet in litigation with Air Canada, the Toronto-Dominion Bank in an $80 million case and a high profile 1995 defamation case in the Supreme Court of Canada representing an unsuccessful appellant in Hill v. Church of Scientology.
WeirFoulds corporate slogan is: "Gain and protect advantage."
2. B.C. RAIL
On Nov. 25, 2003, little more than a month before the Legislature raid, Canadian National bought B.C. Rail for $1 billion in one of the biggest privatization deals in Canadian history.
The deal was extremely important politically for B.C. Liberal Premier Gordon Campbell -- and it broke his 2001 election promise not to sell the longtime Crown corporation.
Campbell was keen on privatizations and public-private-partnerships or P3s as a means of reducing both the size of government and government debt.
The B.C. Liberals fudged the sale, calling it a renewable "lease" in which the province retained the rail line itself and rail bed. But it was soon learned that the 60-year lease -- giving British Columbians just $16.6 million a year to give up their profitable railroad -- could actually be renewed for up to 990 years -- giving the Liberal's "New Era" promises a new meaning.
But the B.C. Rail privatization first announced on May 13, 2003, was at one point on the verge of collapsing.
Dwindling bidders
There were just three bidders: Canadian National, Canadian Pacific and U.S. railway giant OmniTRAX, based in Denver, Colorado.
Then in a private letter to the B.C. government sent Nov. 21, 2003 -- just days before CN was announced as the buyer -- Canadian Pacific dropped out of the bidding, claiming that CN had been given confidential government information unrelated to the Basi-Virk case, leading CP to believe that the government's handling of the B.C. Rail sale was "extremely prejudiced".
"By allowing CN access to B.C. Rail's customers at a time when CPR was prohibited by its confidentiality agreement from contacting such customers, the province has, whether intentionally or not, provided CN with an unfair competitive advantage," says the letter -- obtained by the Vancouver Sun through a Freedom of Information request -- and sent by CP's lawyers to a CIBC consultant handling the bid for the B.C. government.
That left just two bidders -- CN and OmniTRAX. Were OmniTRAX to drop out as well, the B.C. government's vaunted privatization of B.C. Rail and the alleged "competition" to provide taxpayers with the best deal would be shot.
And CN, who gave $60,000 to the B.C. Liberal Party in the two years before the 2001 election, could look like it low-balled its offer, knowing there were no other bidders.
So, as at least one possible defence theory may go, there was huge pressure on B.C. government officials to keep OmniTRAX in the bidding.
Basi was ministerial assistant to then-finance minister Gary Collins, while Virk was ministerial assistant to then-transportation minister Judith Reid.
Could that pressure have resulted in someone authorizing government information to be passed along to OmniTRAX to encourage their continued participation?
Again, only the trial can answer that speculation.
Roberts Bank riddle
The second part of the B.C. Rail equation is that a second, smaller privatization of the Roberts Bank Port Subdivision was cancelled in March 2004 by the B.C. government after the RCMP said the process was compromised by the leak of confidential information.
OmniTRAX, in a consortium with Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, CP, and CN were all bidders on the Roberts Bank rail line, estimated to be worth up to $70 million.
According to a police search warrant ITO sworn by RCMP Corporal Andrew Cowan, the residence of Bruce Clark -- a federal B.C. Liberal executive and brother to then-deputy premier Christy Clark -- was searched because:
"I believe that CLARK received documents pertaining to a Request for Proposal and presentations regarding Roberts Bank. I believe that CLARK has had meeting with BASI. I believe the items sought will be found at..." Bruce Clark's Vancouver home address, the ITO concludes.
It should again be pointed out that the ITO contains unproven allegations that have never been tested in court.
At the defence disclosure application hearing that began Oct. 30, 2006, lawyers McCullough, Bolton and Doyle state that on Dec. 8, 2005, they received: "a number of significant materials which had previously not been disclosed, including:
"The notes of Superintendent McRae from the period of Dec. 18, 2003, through March 10, 2004. These notes contain a significant detailing of communications between the RCMP and the Senior Government officials with respect to the decision to cancel the bidding process for the Robert's Bank Port Subdivision, the subject of Count 10 on the Indictment herein."
It was at this point in the hearing that McCullough posed the question on the main B.C. Rail deal itself.
"The Roberts Bank count -- the bid is cancelled. That's a very, very significant issue. Why cancel Roberts Bank and not B.C. Rail?" McCullough asked.
Like many other questions raised, it has so far gone unanswered.
3. RCMP BEHAVIOUR AND MISTRIAL MUSINGS
The defence disclosure application challenged the actions of both the RCMP and the Special Prosecutor in this case, challenges that Bill Berardino vigorously rejected for the most part.
And while some agreements were reached in court between the defence and prosecution by hearing's end, Justice Bennett will still render a decision Nov. 14 on the application request that defence lawyers gain access to a top-secret "project room" where the RCMP stores its evidence.
But whatever the decision, the defence application hearing has thrown a light on a series of unusual RCMP activities, as well as other information coming to attention outside the court.
Media leaks and RCMP house buying
One intriguing hint was thrown out when the defence said it had requested "Inspector Zack's missing report into media leaks" in its application and earlier that they sought a "report prepared by Insp. Zack into the media links [sic] and media strategy."
The defence lawyers wrote that: "Inspector Zach's media report dealt with the considerable number of media leaks in this case. These leaks resulted in significant publicity, especially with respect to the raid of the Legislature. Such publicity had a profound deleterious effect on the fair trial rights of these accused persons."
Other complaints by the defence include failure to provide some of the notes of several RCMP officers involved in the investigation when requested. These notes, since received, included those of Corporal Andrew Cowan, who swore the Information To Obtain search warrants and is a key investigator, a Sergeant Buerk, who they say plays "an active part" in the case and was involved in the effort to have Erik Bornman become a Crown witness.
"Sgt. Buerk's notes were not provided. How could the Special Prosecutor be unaware that Sgt. Buerk's notes were not provided, given that Sgt. Buerk is present for the April 5, 2004, meeting between Sgt. Finner and Cpl. Cowan wherein Sgt. Finner's notes indicate that a discussion is held and an agreement is made that Bornman will be treated as a witness? Is there a more important meeting?" reads the application.
House deal
But if the Supreme Court was hearing important information on the RCMP's behaviour, other odd facts surfaced outside.
Corporal Cowan, as has been previously reported, has had the unusual experience of buying a house from David Basi's family in 1999, including dealing directly with Basi and, according to Basi, raising issue with problems found at the house.
In addition, a consultant who was considering hiring David Basi in 2004 has told The Tyee and some other media outlets that Cowan visited him at his home along with another officer, making it clear it would be a mistake to continue having a working relationship with Basi.
Cowan told The Globe and Mail he couldn't comment on these allegations because the case is before the court.
And for the first time, Basi lawyer Michael Bolton suggested Crown and RCMP handling of the prosecution could result in an application for a mistrial, raising the possibility that the case might never be heard in court.
On Oct. 31 Bolton spoke of a failure to disclose evidence and a lack of proper inventories of that evidence -- subsequently strongly disputed by Berardino -- and then told Justice Bennett that: "This is a prime example of a case that's a serious candidate for a miscarriage of justice or a mistrial down the road because of the failure of disclosure."
Privilege issues
Then there's the challenge of parliamentary privilege affecting much of the evidence gathered for the prosecution.
As has been previously reported here and elsewhere, the wiretapping of David Basi's government-issue cell phone only happened after the RCMP had been twice turned down by judges concerned about the privilege question.
On the third attempt the defence alleges that the RCMP did not tell the judge hearing the wiretap application that two earlier applications had been rejected or that the address indicated on the application was in fact the street address of the B.C. legislature.
B.C. Liberal Attorney-General Wally Oppal, himself a former B.C. Supreme Court judge, expressed his concern about the possibility that police had misled a judge and that Premier Campbell had been intercepted speaking to Gary Collins on the wiretap.
"I don't know whether they mislead the judge. It would bother me if they did," Oppal said. That led to New Democrat MLA Leonard Krog, a lawyer and opposition critic, to tell Oppal to be quiet if he doesn't want to be the cause of a mistrial.
"High profile prosecutions have failed in the past because politicians felt compelled to make comments in public that were later deemed prejudicial," said Krog.
TRIAL DATE: MORE DELAY?
So, given the massive amount of evidence, the complexity of the issues, the privilege question, the admissibility of wiretaps and a host of other vexing problems, can one realistically expect the trial to being on Dec. 4?
After all, this has probably been one of the most often delayed trials for a major case in B.C. judicial history. Even getting any of the search warrant information released took almost a year.
But Michael Bolton, David Basi's lawyer, told The Tyee outside the court on Nov. 2 that while there will be more delays, Dec. 4 still stands.
"Certainly we'll be starting something -- the Crown's privilege claims," Bolton said. "The first week of January we'll have a voir dire [a mini-hearing on contested evidence] on the admissibility of wiretaps and the authorization to intercept."
Meanwhile, at least one of the key players in the case isn't letting the pressure get to him.
Crown witness Erik Bornman has a new website featuring his amateur photography and noting his enjoyment of "food, wine and independent film."
And apparently while not yet a lawyer and while facing an admissibility hearing in front of the Law Society, Bornman claims in his bio online that he has: "has actively participated in...the provision of pro bono legal service to the public."
If and when this trial ever happens it will be standing room only at B.C. Supreme Court.
Related Tyee articles:
- Leg Raid Case Lurches to Life
- Erik Bornman: Spiderman in a Web of Intrigue
- Premier Scrambles to 'Restore Trust'
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- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
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- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
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- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
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Alcibiades
5 years ago
Comments on "Leg Raid Hearing Intrigue"
Finally, but still missing a link to BC Mary's blog...the most essential resource for anyone who is tracking this story.
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
Take a big bow Mary. Too bad the paid journalists in this province have forgotten what 'investigative' actually means.
Colin
5 years ago
Hmm, better bring lots of popcorn to this thread, thanks for keeping on this.
secondlook
5 years ago
Mr. Tielman - thanks for a well written, thought provoking article. (I lost faith in the Tyee's coverage of the truth surrounding the Olympic shenanigans, which unfortunately has been largely suppressed - even by the Tyee) Mr. Tielman, from personal experience, your track record has always been honourable and forthright.
My thanks also to Alcibiades, for the link to BC Mary's blog - excellent coverage with no sanitizing.
The public deserves all of the details, yet the long arm of the old boys 'circle' reaches into the court system, where too often a wink - wink; nudge - nudge and the evidence seems to disappear. It's all in WHO YOU KNOW when high profile reputations are on trial for misconduct; nothing like first hand experience to give you aa rude awakening LOL!!!!!
The only branch of Government I have faith in lies with the Criminal Justice Branch, responsible for appointing Special Prosecutors; with Mr. Geoff Gaul as the Director of Legal Services - so pleased to read that the Special Prosecutor is conducting himself properly, vs stonewalling.
The only way that justice is served is when the public is given the straight goods - when the truth in the evidence is FULLY AIRED.
anarcho
5 years ago
At last this is getting publicity. Thank you Bill T. Tyee is doing what it was set up to do. But like Alci says, BCMary was there first. Yea for the blogosphere! But is it too much to hope that this scandal might really damage or present Liberal (sic) govt.?
Fiat lux
5 years ago
Imagine the front page publicity if this had happened under the NDP?
Ed Deak.
BC Mary
5 years ago
secondlook said it best:
Many thanks for the welcome support of The Legislature Raids blog, which is trying to assure that the case is remembered until the truth is fully revealed under oath.
I like to think we actually could unravel that BC Rail contract and get our railway back ... then after that, take back BC Ferries ... BC Hydro ... BC Medical ...
Diogenes
5 years ago
You can bet your butts the backroom strategists of all those concerned will come up with a way to make this all go away. Hasn’t Bill Tieleman pointed to an out with this bit of info.
"High profile prosecutions have failed in the past because politicians felt compelled to make comments in public that were later deemed prejudicial,"
I emailed an enquiry to a no longer practicing lawyer I have accesses to asking for comment.
This was his reply,
“I have no wish to criticize the managerial techniques and operating style of a criminal organization.â€
BC Mary
5 years ago
... but when my feet touch the ground again, I think it will be enough just to know the truth.
secondlook
5 years ago
Thanks, BC Mary.
Personally, I believe your thoughts are flowing in the right direction when you stated:
The Hon. W.A.C. Bennett created those entities for the best interests of British Columbians - not the best interests of 'Campbell's Cronies'.
We all tend to forget our own power to make significant change. With our province being dismantled, frankly, it is time for British Columbians to demand that your thoughts become reality.
"The power of one becomes the power of many." YOU GO GIRL!!!!
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
Fiat lux,
So very true. There would probably be a weekly update in the Vancouver Sun.
Maybe if Campbell had gotten his porch fixed for free we would be hearing about it daily on Global News. But alas, it's only the shadowy dealings behind the largest "one of the biggest privatization deals in Canadian history."
"Freedom of press is limited to those who own one."
- H. L. Mencken
Kam Lee
5 years ago
Thank you BC Mary! Thanks also to Bill T, good work from both of you. It will take some time until we find out where and when this little tale will take us...
I know, Gordo knows, Clark knows, Boorman knows. Wally knows, Marrison knows. Follow the money, find the rats. This is the most crooked story in a long time. Thanks Libs, right o centre isnt always the right direction.
anarcho
5 years ago
"The Hon. W.A.C. Bennett created those entities for the best interests of British Columbians"
I wonder how this squares with present day "conservatives"? Heck, now that I think of it, the present day NDP, too. Old Bennett would be considered a flaming Bolshevik in todays bizarre, sociopathic, ultra-right dominated political discourse. People now get into office not to do something good for the ordinary person, but to harm them as much as possible.
DJT
5 years ago
Judge Bennett states "I would probably be a very good juror because I don't remember any of the media reports on this case". Gee, I guess everyone else in BC would potentially be a good juror too.
Aurora
5 years ago
That's because there have hardly BEEN any so-called "media reports' on this entire story. Gee.. other than we have seen the subsequent resignations of first Christie Clarke, then Gary Collins.. oh wait-- but those were for OTHER reasons - child-rearing and a corporate job offer too good to pass up. Right. Yes, I, too, await the day this sordid story starts earning its rightful place in our mainstream local rags - the front page, dead centre, bold type. What a scandal this story has been so buried the past 3 years. As many have said, if this had been an NDP-government story, news coverage of it would make the recent Tom Ellison trial coverage look small and inconsequential. Please keep the coverage coming, Mr. Tielman. Here's hoping the tales coming out of the imminent trial reach a fever pitch just in time for Election '09. oh please.. please...
pure
5 years ago
I think I will hire Glen Clark to;
a) arrange to have my back porch refurbished and
b) arrange to have my slow boat to China turned into a fast boat to catch fish.
* Evidence will tell a portion of the story it just depends on what portion and how much of the 100% we will really know.
** As a polygraph holds no water we will have to see how much the judges glass will hold.
Grumpy
5 years ago
Can we get BC Rail back? This question must send shivers up CN Raiul's spine. Is there any evidence that the Premier was, well you know, induced to sell BC Rail off?
Where is the media's attention in all this? A $billion$ dollar deal versus a$10 thousand sundeck, wow it don't take rocket science to figure out which is the real scandal.
but wait, $1 billion is nothing like the $2.5 billion RAV bait and switch, where, after massive redesign after the bidding process to reduce costs, may not have a practical capacity over 7,500 pphpd because the subway stations are a mere 2 car leangths long. Well it could be 3 car leagths if Hyundi design a shoerter middle car!
this certainly makes the $800 million LRT on Arbutus, with a potential capacity of 20,000 look better and better. Maybe the City is paying Dobell 300,000 a year to bolster his upcoming legal fees!
Fraud, bribery, and coruption is the hall mark of BC politics.
thomasfolkestone
5 years ago
Hmm... Bornmann's website (http://www.bornmanngallery.com/index.php) looks like a facade to sanitize his image. About as personal as "Likes long walks on beaches, curling up in front of the fireplace..."
And his bio says he's presently working in Law. I wonder with whom? Perhaps that is the pro bono work he mentions.
Poor guy. Bet the young man wishes he never got involved with those crazy West Coast people. At least no journalists have bothered him in faraway Toronto...
deeby
5 years ago
Thanks for this Bill.
I think the lack of coverage by CanWest Global is an equivalent scandal. I'm not sure how Palmer and Baldrey can live with themselves, or call themselves reporters.
How about it guys?...we all know you're reading. Does it feel good to sit on your hands while this unfolds?
Skookum1
5 years ago
Still reading the article, but I just noticed its acronym: PEWW. Could mountains actually be that witty?
Skookum1
5 years ago
ooops..... that was to be mounties, not mountains. Mountains, of course, are very witty.
Coffee, where's my coffee.....
Skookum1
5 years ago
If all this kerfuffle - of people and polticians actually publicy speculating and having opinions on various aspects of the case, not the least Attorney-General Oppal - does lead to a mistrial - THEN do we get to find out what it was all about? [I]THEN[/I} do we get to see the evidence, the contents of the RCMP's s-e-c-r-e-t "project room".
IMO the A-G's comments were fair game; and while the NDP critic was right that opining on the conduct of the RCMP and, by implication, the legal value of its evidence, Oppal could trigger a mistrial. But is an A-G supposed to keep quiet when it turns out an important proceeding has been tainted because Mounties appear to have lied to a judge? What's the point in having a politician theoretically in control of the RCMP (in BC) if he can neither say anything about their conduct, nor can he control it in the first place?
And I'd think someone, somewhere, should have the authority to independently examine evidence in such cases like this (as if there were any cases like this) and have the power to unseal the court ban in the public interest. This isn't a private lawsuit; if all parties involved were private companies and individuals it would be different. But it's not - it was a sale of government assets, and involved ministers of the crown, their advisors, political party "communications consultants" (aka lobbyists), and I'll wager a so-far-unknown cast of interesting also-rans. The only one missing so far as Peter Montague....
There seems to be clear evidence, from CPR's letter, that the sale of BC Rail was corrupted from day one. Are there any prececents for negating the contract of sale and taking back possession?
Skookum1
5 years ago
'nother typo "The only one missing so far as Peter Montague...." should be "is" Peter Montague. How I mixed up my left pinkie with my right middle finger must be an issue of coffee deprivation....
Skookum1
5 years ago
By that I was implying the Attorney-General himself, or perhaps the federal equivalent. Malfeasance by provincial hangers-on theoretically, to me, shouldn't be tried in courts responsible to provincial politicians....
Kam Lee
5 years ago
commentor: deeby
I think the lack of coverage by CanWest Global is an equivalent scandal. I'm not sure how Palmer and Baldrey can live with themselves, or call themselves reporters.
How about it guys?...we all know you're reading. Does it feel good to sit on your hands while this unfolds?
I wonder also how palmer and Baldry can call themselves reporters. There is a huge story right in front of them. Corruption from the top down, gordo, ms clark, collins, mr clark, and all the rest. The only reason they are ignoring it is because of their taskmasters. Keep up the good work Tyee, Bill T and of course my hero.. BC Mary. Without her, the libs would be still blaming the NDP and the left for the theft of our utilities, our railroad, etc. Watch out gordo, booze and gambling, addictions, cant hide behind them forever.
I think the lack of coverage
Skookum1
5 years ago
Re Robin Matthews' article on Justice Bennett and the Clark case on BC Mary's blog:
The outline of Justice Bennett's bafkground in the Clark case et al, and Oppal's switch from Justice to Minister, and more, remind me too much of the allegations spouted by Jack Cram before he was silenced by the courts, and also by the medication they forced him onto as part of his acquittal on contempt charges. Might almost be time to trot out the Cram Conspiracy and have another look at it... (or is it under a court ban by now too?)
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Skookum1
I think Robin Matthews got into areas and speculation that have little or nothing to do with the main issue. The only hope we have here, as concerned citizens, is for the justice system to work. The press isn't working at it, and the government is going through the usual sleight of hand with education bribes directed at future 18 year olds, revisited anti-smoking rules, and nonsense about junk food at school.
I can understand why Robin is upset but I don't think he has his eye on the ball with that stuff. However, he's been sitting in that court room for most of that pre-trial hearing, who knows how frustrating such an experience would be for us.
I'll give him a pass and keep looking under the bushes. There are rascals hiding, and they have bags of taxpayers' cash in their pockets.
I never have decided what the real truth is in the Jack Cram ‘case’ either.
Skookum1
5 years ago
The truth of the Jack Cram case was only indirectly implied; I meant what were Jack's claims about corruption in the judiciary and police establishment? Or would it be contempt of court to put his claims into print?
Alcibiades
5 years ago
I understand.
I don't think it would, so long as one made clear that one wasn't making any judgment as to their truth.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
But, that's not a legal opinion. Jack's allegations are still out there - in cached copy if nothing else.
Diogenes
5 years ago
I never have decided what the real truth is in the Jack Cram ‘case’ either.
What would it take for you to decide?
I have had the pleasure of meeting Jack on a couple of occasions as well as being in communication with him.
My endorsement of the man would mean nada and the events surrounding what happened to him are easily verified.
Jack Cram is not the only lawyer to be silence by the courts.
Karl Eisbrenner, before his untimely death, was also silenced by the courts and he had more than enough evidence to bring down the Campbell Crooks.
Bill T. was noted as stating in Karl’s case it was not only buried but paved over ( I paraphrase)
Imagine, if you will being swarmed by police, drugged, placed in a psych ward (most likely incommunicado) striped of your livelihood and silenced in the very courts we have been conditioned to believe operate only in ethical ways.
BC Dude
5 years ago
Personally I think CanWest if it were possible to bring charges against them for suppressing the real news that is going on in British Columbia's the People's government!
We the people of this "Our Beautiful British Columbia" should demand open government, no more backroom deals with big corporations!
This whole dirty, criminal element in OUR PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT WHO WERE REELECTED WITH THE HELP OF CANWEST SHOULD BE TURFED AND DEALT WITH TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW!
A DISGUSTED SENIOR CITIZEN.
BC Mary
5 years ago
Focus, stay on thread, there's no time to waste.
In 23 days, the Trial of the Century is scheduled to begin.
That's in BC Supreme Court, Vancouver, 4 December 2006.
In a mere 3 days, Justice Elizabeth Bennett will announce a significant pre-trial ruling on that case.
That also in BC Supreme Court, Vancouver, 14 November.
Loins girded, wits sharpened, and heads up, soldiers! And remember, a pen is a weapon of war.
BC Dude
5 years ago
In
other words bring back DEMOCRACY to the People of B.C.
Gordon Campbell and his liberals should not be allowed to be in power while all this is in the courts.
Diogenes
5 years ago
"And remember, a pen is a weapon of war."
I agree Mary.
It is a war and one to be fought on ALL fronts. This is one of the battles.
RossK
5 years ago
A point of clarification......
Mr Tieleman said:
"OmniTRAX, in a consortium with Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, CP, and CN were all bidders on the Roberts Bank rail line, estimated to be worth up to $70 million."
Was OmniTRAX truly part of a single consortium bidding for the Spur or was each of the companies listed, or a subset of them, actually competing for the spur.
If it was the latter rather than the former does this mean that the deal that was stopped is the one that was truly competitive?
And if that is the case it would do more to support, rather than refute, the quid pro quo hypothesis that Vaughn Palmer entertained last week.
_____
And I agree with those at the top of thread..... The place to go for lively, well moderated discussion, including comments from apparent 'Deep Throat' Anonymi, is BC Mary's Place at:
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
Grumpy,
Say it ain't so!
jimmy_laroux
5 years ago
anarcho,
Didn't the Americans used to call him "Castro of the North"?
Diogenes
5 years ago
Alcibiades
5 years ago
We shouldn't be too easy on Bennett, or pursue with too much enthusiasm the idea that his governments didn't have a very strong tradition of helping and looking the other way for the government's friends.
Don't forget that the only BC politician convicted and sent to jail for influence peddling was one of William Andrew Cecil's Cabinet ministers.
Skookum1
5 years ago
Yeah, exactly. The other lawyer who received similar treatment was Bruce Clarke, because of his involvment with the Gustafsen Lake defense; but like all else with that affair much never reached the mainstream papers; unlike Cram's case which I remember got lots of column-inches until the papers were silenced by the courts....
BC Dude
5 years ago
Thanks to BC Mary
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
There might be Hope for US and OUR Children yet!
Scandal of the Century as it reaches right up to the Federal Liberal Party Government of Paul Martin.
Wasn't he the finance minister during the sponsorship scandal, yup
Scandal after scandal after scandal.
When we going to stand-up and say enough is enough?
Federally and Provincially
Giving/Selling off all our Publicly Owned and Very Profitable Corporations!
BC Ferries gone
BC Hydro going
BC Health under fire
BC Rail going or gone
BC Transmission Corporation?
BC Transit ?
There has been nothing at all in any of CanWest's media holdings The Vancouver Sun, The Vancouver Province and Global TV and others?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CanWest_Global_Communications
This is not what I'd call Freedom of Speech.
For the Future of Our Children and their Children!
BC Dude
5 years ago
A Warning from A Great Leader in 1961 Eisenhower
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
This is happening now!
Diogenes
5 years ago
Lets not forget Renate Andres-Auger, a lawyer and Cree woman, that Jack stood up for who has now gone into hiding so deep no one seems to know where she is.
It is one thing to break a story and tirelessly stay with it as Mary has done and entirely a different kettle of fish to have to go into hiding for fear of ones life of leave the country for ones own safety.
Then there is Sgt Peter Montague and how he figures in to all this
http://sisis.nativeweb.org/court/jan2497.html
Sgt. Peter Montague
http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/04/25/TownDuped/
Sgt. Peter Montague (once approached by Campbell to run for the Liberals) ...
If this case gets brought to court and a fair hearing I will be surprised.
Now that BC Mary has persistently pursued this case the rest of us should not let it drop out of sight court or no court.
anarcho
5 years ago
Alicbiades said "We shouldn't be too easy on Bennett, or pursue with too much enthusiasm the idea that his governments didn't have a very strong tradition of helping and looking the other way for the government's friends."
Oh, I hated the old bugger at the time, and was solid CCF-NDP. He was hypocritical, slandered the NDP, and let his buddies feed from the trough, but he did do things for the province - even though many were wrong-headed. I am sure he died thinking he had helped the "little people." The difference is today we have all of Bennetts bad traits, none of the good ones and a mentality that gloats over how much harm they can do to the "little guy." Huey Long might be a better example of old Wacky.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Well put anarcho. Given a choice between Bennett's hokey country clerk bonhomie and Campbell's slimy slickness I'd take Cece Bennett over Gordon ‘Gecko’ Campbell every time.
Tieleman
5 years ago
Thanks for the many kind and varied comments on my article here.
This is indeed a critical case and one that could shed much light on BC politics.
One specific clarification. RossK quoted from my article, then asked:
"OmniTRAX, in a consortium with Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, CP, and CN were all bidders on the Roberts Bank rail line, estimated to be worth up to $70 million."
"Was OmniTRAX truly part of a single consortium bidding for the Spur or was each of the companies listed, or a subset of them, actually competing for the spur."
The answer is that the consortium was just OmniTRAX and Burlington Northern Santa Fe together. CN was another separate bidder, as was CP. Sorry for any confusion.
On W.A.C. Bennett - he was indeed called "Castro of the North" and worse for nationalizing BC Electric to create BC Hydro.
But it's important to note that he did so to support the forest and mining industries in opening up BC - not for socialist reasons! I wrote my Masters thesis on it.
Thanks also to BC Mary for keeping the issue alive with her blog.
Lastly, I would be remiss if I did not again say that it isn't in my view useful to criticize journalists like Keith Baldrey of Global or Vaughn Palmer of the Vancouver Sun for their coverage of the case.
I welcome their coverage, as I do all coverage, because it helps us get the complete picture when put together.
Regrettably, some media outlets, most notably the CBC, have failed to cover the disclosure application at all.
- regards, Bill Tieleman
Skookum1
5 years ago
The CBC are a bunch of shills and sell-outs; their former relative neutrality and integrity has long since been blown out of the water (starting well before the mlitary takeover/censorship of Newsworld during Oka).
BC has been fairly well silent on the BC Ledge case, but it's not the only "real news" item that's been supplanted in preference to feel-good stories about the troops or Vimy Ridge, or feel-bad stories of the horrible crime/weak sentence formula perfected by their competition Global.
As some here know this last two weeks I've been following the deepening crisis in Mexico, about which Canadian media (including the Tyee, so far) have been completely silent. You'd think they might be digging into the background behind Scotiabank's apparent involvement with corrupt Mexican politicians (why else was a Scotiabank in Mexico City bombed at the same time as the PRI and electoral commission offices?).
CBC now is an information-management and propaganda machine; it is no longer a reliable news source, except as a meter of what the Canadian establishment/government wants to have said about it itself.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Amen. Skookum1 - and sadly true... It is more interested in creating and massaging opinion than reporting facts.
The utter garbage that's currently rolling off the screen over my shoulder about indoctrinating young people about what war in general (and afghanistan in particular) are all about is absolutely disgusting.
Childish, pathetic and entirely dishonest. Clearly the US hired guns have cut the real journalists out of the picture.
Grumpy
5 years ago
Jimmy L. - sad to say it is true, the cost cutting on RAV is in the extreme. This morning i gather the contractors lost a several ton diesel generator, because they didn't hire night watchman.
There is worse to come with RAV, but i will let it go for another day.
Skookum1
5 years ago
Either CBC or Global National had an item on how Canadians are loaning poppy pins to British troops, whose they'd borrowed previously, as they were in short supply. Then a bit about how "troops from other nations" (obviously Americans in the clip) "didn't understand the significance", although of course Afghan villagers did, once they were told what flower was represented. This was followed by an "it's ironic" bit of editorializing about how much more significant it is to wear one this year, as it's the fruit of the poppy that "feeds the evils that our troops are in Aftghanistan to suppress". Not quite an exact quote, but close; and propaganda through and through.
You'd almost think Vimy was fought as part of the War on Drugs...
And speaking of Vimy, the tiresome repeat of the shibboleth that this very pyrrhic victory is "what defined us as Canadians" is irrelevant in the post-multiculturalism world, where Canadian identity has become whatever you want it to be. And Vimy? A waste of blood, ten thousand lives for a few yards of ground, lost soon afterwards. Supposedly the onslaught helped overall tactical operations somehow, or weakened the Germans, or whatever. But like Dieppe it's about an image and identity of Canada - Anglo-Saxon Canada - that has long since been destroyed; and is useful now only for sentimental purposes, including indoctrinating the young.
Thing is about WWI-era veterans, and I knew a few, is that they were all exteremely anti-war and often anti-military; likewise a lot of WWII veterans...of course CBC's not looking for their stories, are they? Even though they are "Canadian stories" (a CBC phraseline).
Alcibiades
5 years ago
No kidding - You're right about the WWI guys. I knew one fellow, never said a word about his war. Years after he died and the records became public I found out what his war was like. He was 33 years old when he signed up in June of 1915. He was wounded at Passchendaele with the Canadian Scottish Regiment - took out a German mg single handedly with a Lewis gun and held the shell hole for hours in the mud with a groin wound that shed bits of shrapnel out of his upper thigh for the rest of his life. His story is written up in the regimental history in the archives here in Victoria.
When he came back to the small town in Saskatchewan where I later came to know him his hair had turned pure white - much to the shock of his friends and family. He was old when I knew him but, as far as I know, he never breathed a word about any of it until the day he died.
This stuff on TV about Vimy and these ‘educators’ bloviating on CBC about it is just bloody awful. Harry would have hated it: pure horseshit.
Skookum1
5 years ago
Just saw it again; I had the quote wrong and this is more or less the end of it
"...feeds the evils of the Taliban regime that the local poppy economy supports".
Which is why Afghanis find it "curious" that Canadians and Brits are wearing poppies. Big difference between a white poppy and a red one, supposedly; but red ones still produce opiates, not just as strong (we used to have 'em in our yard but Mom always told us it was illegal to harvest the pods, which was no doubt one of those parental white lies).
The 45-minute mark on the hour is when I came to the Journal tonight; they had a panel of injured and decorated Afghan War vets (I've forgotten, is this Afghan War XXIII or Afghan War XXII??) opinining to a bunch of school kids on why they wanted to go back to Afghanistan to finish the work their comrades gave their lives for.
When this segment was introduced, Mansbridge said something to the effect that in years past, Remembrance Day was when we remember those who gave their lives for this country in WWI and WWII, whereas now we have troops actively fighting and we have to remember and support THEM....
The ugly part of that cooptation of the meaning of Remembrance Day is that I always remember the lines I heard over and over again in ceremonies at the Legion, and which can be seen on cenotaphs; paraphrasing - that they fought and died to end war, not to perpetrate it, and vet after vet in the old days talked about how they didn't want to see young men and women marched off to war.
The argument gets tossed around, without ever being put directly, that the Taliban and the Baathists are modern equivalents of the Nazis and the Gestapo. But it's often or nearly always forgotten that WWII was not fought to end the Holocaust, which was only found out about, or admitted to by the Allied Powers, after the war was over. World War II was fought to bring two parallel expansionist empire to heel; crushed under the heels of the rest of Europe, rather. It had clear objectives, and while maybe NATO and the occupation of Germany weren't the best exit strategy, at least there was an exit strategy.
If I were one of those kids with the vets tonight, listening to them talk about "duty" and "finishing the work", I would have felt compelled to ask them "what would finish this work?". What is the exit strategy? What is the Afghan End Game?
The British knew, three times previously (the First, Second and Third Afghan Wars), what to do about Afghanistan: WITHDRAW. Withdrawal or retreat is not quite the same as surrender, but an ignominious defeat seems better to me than total destruction; or, as things are playing out, an endless and fruitless police action in one of the most rugged, conquest-resistant patches of land on this sorry planet.
But now that they're there, we're hearing about how they can't give up because it would disgrace those who already died. This is crap, and the same kind of logic that keeps schoolyard fights and gangland feuds going, and also the blood feuds of the Balkans. Troops - and especially generals - should not be used as political tools; when they are it has inevitable problems with truth, and with the public ability to decide freely independently of what the guilt/honour of the troops has to do with it.
And that's where the parallel to the Gestapo and Nazis come in; the integration of the military into the political process that's underway. Doesn't help that Gordon O'Connor is as much of a hothead as Rick Hillier, as there's no one to draw the general to heel for shooting his mouth off. But as for a country whose military calls the shots - isn't that what World Wars I and II were fought to prevent happening here?
Skookum1
5 years ago
The list of countries where the military have played a big role in politics isn't a pretty one: Mexico, Argentina, Chile, the USA, the USSR, China, Turkey, Burma, Nigeria (I'm only speaking in terms of recent history)
The odd man out in such a lit is Thailand, where the military intervenes to preserve democracy (after temporarily suspending it, as is the usual pattern that's currently playing out for the umpteenth time). Turkey's military, also, is less nefarious in its motivations than the alternative (a reconversion of Turkey back to an Islamic state, and probably an Islamist one given current trends).
Skookum1
5 years ago
And re those discussions about W.A.C. Bennett back up the forum quite a ways, here's a snippet that someone dug up for his bio on Wikipedia; Jack Wasserman interviewing him in the wake of the elimination ballot elections
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-73-1637-11303/politics_economy/british_columbia_elections/clip2
It's amazing how much he says without really saying anything at all; you have to listen close; he doesn't in fact seem to answer Wasserman's questions as reply in his own terms, on his own agenda. Charismatic snake-oil, but amazing to watch; especially for a time when TV had barely been invented yet.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Good stuff Skookum1.
I obviously turned in too early last night.
Couldn't have put it any better myself.
Elliot
5 years ago
it's really kind of sad to see tieleman so desperately trying to keep this story alive in the hopes that it may someday help to bring the libs down. almost as sad to see the ndp moving dix around to where all the action is b/c he's one of the only ones left who still has that clark/sihota-type of bulldogish ndp passion from the good old days when they were in opposition. of course that was back in the days when they were actually good at being in opposition. now they're just boring and predictable, chasing around ho-hum stories that merit perhaps 10-15 minutes/week on the news and one or two columns in the papers. time for a facelift?
BC Dude
5 years ago
you are right about the NDP party as we see the end of DEMOCRACY in this province with the Legislature scandal being backtracked.
Wally Opal getting involved and possibly causing a mistrial?
Wally Opal should resign and Gordon Campbell our poster child for (no criminal record?) MADD should be thrown out of office for being an accessory to the biggest political scandal in B.C.'s history!
The only way to bring all this to the forefront is for people union and nonunion to walk off the job in protest to bring DEMOCRACY back into our justice system and the people!
BC Dude
5 years ago
We've tried the peaceful way through the courts, what a laugh!
I thought out with the courts were for to keep DEMOCRACY AND OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS FRONT AND CENTER!
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. When you give up that force, you are ruined.â€
— Patrick Henry
BC Dude
5 years ago
oops out with shouldn't be there thank you!
Alcibiades
5 years ago
God Elliott, If I could only believe that the NDP actually 'knew' what these characters have been up to I'd give them a good deal of credit.
So far they haven't earned any and neither has the working press.
You enjoy having both Gordon Campbell's hands in your pockets do you?
lynn
5 years ago
And let not the political assassination of Glen Clark be forgotten in regards to the present situation we now find ourselves in BC, our current questioning of the state of democracy in this province as evidenced in the legislature raids and the lack of public access to information surrounding this case.
It has never been about whether you liked Glen Clark or not... or if you agreed with his politics. It is about how a democratically-elected premier could be brought down without just cause and what that ousting said about the treacherous powers that wished it so. About what that ultimately signalled about the future of democracy in BC...what Robin Mathews refers to as "a sea of corruption" that now exists in this province.
The stage was obviously being cleared and set-up for BC to operate in a different manner..and towards a different end.
This story has a longer history than at first glance it suggests. The msm has failed the public miserably in its almost non-reportage over the years of such an important story that involves not only our democratic right-to-know but the upholding of democracy itself in BC. After Calrk was proved innocent It failed to follow up the causes of the political assassination of Glen Clark... and it failed to investigate the forces that came into play in BC because of that. What was done to Glen Clark is now being done to the people of this province. We and our democratic right to know are being royally screwed, for lack of a more apt description...with every privatization after privatization of our most valuable resources, we every sell-out of this province....we know less and less.
"The fundamental purpose of news dissemination in a democracy is to enable people to know what is happening, and to understand events so that they may form their own conclusions."
(Canadian Association of Broadcasters, Code of Ethics, Article 6)
lynn
5 years ago
Typos abound...yeech!:
"After Clark was proved innocent it failed.."
"with every sell-out of this province'
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Perhaps a few words from the 'Greatest Canadian' wouldn't be out of place:
Once more let me remind you what fascism is. It need not wear a brown shirt or a green shirt - it may even wear a dress shirt. Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing that people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege.
T.C.Douglas
lynn
5 years ago
Alci, thanks for that Douglas quote... I have never read it before.
It could not be said better.
BC Dude
5 years ago
This is REMEMBRANCE DAY which we've been celebrating for 60 plus years as the brave men and women who died and are dying in Afghanistan.
Didn't They Die for OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS and FREEDOM OF SPEECH WRITTEN AND SPOKEN?
In British Columbia it is the B.C. Legislature Raids in December 28 2003 a Very Dark Day for all British Colombians
the very Halls of Our Democracy and Canada's.
I think before it's too late for democracy WE should have a general strike unite all of OUR Unions and all of the people who want and DEMAND our DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS and Freedom of Speech
A Very Disgusted British Columbian!
RossK
5 years ago
Many thanks to Mr. Tieleman for answering my question re the 'consortium' that was bidding for the Roberts Bank Spurline.
He clarifed by stating:
"The answer is that the consortium was just OmniTRAX and Burlington Northern Santa Fe together. CN was another separate bidder, as was CP. Sorry for any confusion."
Now, as follow-up, I would sure like to know if there was actually true competition amongst those three groups (or at least two).
Why do I ask?
Well, if there was a quid pro quo being set-up wherein a dummy bid from OmniTRAX that gave the illusion of competitiveness to the larger CN deal was to be rewarded with with some sort of certainty wrt the outcome on the smaller deal*, well, then, that wouldn't that have made competition on the latter, say from CP, problematic.
Now, even on its own this scenario is worth considering if the Spur line process was, indeed, competitive. But what makes it even more compelling, I think, is the fact that it was the Spur line deal that was ultimately cancelled and that it was CP that ultimately made a fuss about the entire process being tainted.
_____
*This 'hypothesis' is not mine. It was floated by Vaughn Palmer in his Nov 3rd column.
.
gasworks
5 years ago
: Alcibiades posted: 2 Days Ago Finally, but still missing a link to BC Mary's blog...the most essential resource for anyone who is tracking this story.
Take a big bow Mary. Too bad the paid journalists in this province have forgotten what 'investigative' actually means.
What a bunch of TYPICAL TYEE rubbish in between here and the Headline!
(I can only marvel at the intelligence of my Boxer in comparison).
BC Mary
5 years ago
gasworks:
Could you interpret, please? Between where and what headline?
What exactly is the problem?
And what do your underpants have to do with the Legislature Raids?
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Yeah Gasworks. I'd be interested too.
What journalists in the mainstream stream media have done any serious investigative work on this file?
That ordinary interested and nominally involved citizens might be reduced to posting their frustrations about the way the 'business' of the province is being conducted by our elected representatives and monitored by members of the fourth estate who take their responsibilities so lightly is hardly surprising.
What would YOU have them do?
Alcibiades
5 years ago
extra 'stream' should be redacted, sorry!
gasworks
5 years ago
There is no giant media conspiracy at work here and therefore nothing for them to "investigate" (which in fact is exactly what the police and the prosecution are doing), and like most of us the mainstream media are waiting patiently for the outcome. When there is something to report they will. Just what the "H" is the BC Mary problem?
What would you have "serious" journalists do, interfere and conjure one up in the style of "what-if" Tyee "journalists"? (see above)
gasworks
5 years ago
which I might add is likely how a "Fascist" would handle the matter - you think?
I think it will be a large belly laugh if Basi and company get off the hook because of insufficient evidence that led to trumped up charges.
In short, let them get to trial before BC Mary executes them.
gasworks
5 years ago
which I might add that that is likely how a "Fascist" would handle the matter - you think?
I think it will be a large belly laugh if Basi and company get off the hook because of insufficient evidence that led to trumped up charges.
In short, let them get to trial before BC Mary executes them.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
I definitely see fascist tendencies; however, not where you're looking for them.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
If you'd actually taken a little time to think about this, and read the material in question, you'd see that the accused are the least of the problem. No one's suggesting anything of the sort you've suggested above.
gasworks
5 years ago
It's not necessary to read the "investigative material", just the headline followed by your comments say it all, - Take a big bow Mary. Too bad the paid journalists in this province have forgotten what 'investigative' actually means..
Too bad you didn't think my furry friend, there was no problem, and BC Mary's head probably imploded when the story finally "broke", (even though she never made a speck of difference.)
Skookum1
5 years ago
"gasworks" sounds like he's full of bought-and-paid-for gas; a paid disinformationist/denialist. Yes, the earth is flat, politicians are honest, the media are impartial, and your grandmother was from Mars.
gasworks
5 years ago
Sounds like the "Spooks" have escaped, again.
woody
5 years ago
Gasworks when the discussions were on in regards to the take over of Terasen by Kinder Morgan, I told you back than you were a ringer, you’re a ringer on this thread as well. BC Mary disregard anything this character says, he has no substance of value on this topic ( Leg Raid ).
secondlook
5 years ago
Bill T.: Did you ever let The Hon W.A.C. know about your thesis? I have no doubt that if you had asked him, he would have assisted in the research.
Mr. Bennett, unlike any other leader B.C. has ever known, had vision & intuition. He knew when to take a wise secondlook.
Your right, he knew that in order to have a good social service net, you needed to build the economy. He did that with skill, mixing the best of all ideologies.
He also was very wise in keeping his enemies close along with their activities. No one dared step out of line. That constitutes a REAL leader. He led instead of bled, B.C. The taxpayers were the better for it.
gasworks
5 years ago
On the other hand there was a good reason they called him "Wacky".
Al Capone was a REAL leader who also made his constituents bleed from time to time.
(Hopefully you were just joking)
BC Dude
5 years ago
Now if can'twest hasn't got the idea that maybe they should start doing some REAL Investigative Reporting!
cantwest, Make the Right Choice and Bring this Scandal to Light for the People of BC! Cantwest should be Prosecuted as an Accessory to the Cover-up of this 2003 BC Legislature Scandal!
Gordon Campbell is a traitor
secondlook
5 years ago
What reason was that, gasworks?
You've lost me completely. . . .I guess gas doesn't always work.
Diogenes
5 years ago
Ah Serendipity, how I love you.
Talk about killing two birds with one stone
Excerpted from http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:25QO5xrn8OIJ:www.betterjusticebureau.com/stories.htm+How+W.A.C.+Bennett+tricked+the+electorate&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&client=opera
“In fact, he's already taken on the kind of case he's looking at now and won, winning damages in 1986 for a high-level conspiracy involving former premier W. A. C. Bennett against Eddie Haymour, who had been forced to sign over title to Rattlesanake Island in Okanagan Lake after being wrongly committed to Riverview. "You can't get bigger than a conspiracy between the premier and several ministers of the government." he said.â€
Yup Bennett was a prince of a fellow, and the corruptions continues to this day
Elliot
5 years ago
sounds like bc dude has his hands on some pretty far out stuff. fire up another fatty with your red zinger freako.
gasworks
5 years ago
sounds like Elliot is quite familiar with "wacky" drug terminology.
BC Dude
5 years ago
Elliot
Is that most intelligent answer to everybody who goes after the REAL Truth, that we all smoke pot?
Everything I've said in the above blog is true, that all parties who are found guilty should be punished to the fullest extent of the law!
This is organized crime in our British Columbia legislature buildings and the conspiracy to keep his disgusting little man Gordon Campbell in power should have all British Columbia and open arms over this!
Thank you BC Mary for all of your total undivided, tireless dedication to this Extreme Attack on Our Democracy.
BC Dude
5 years ago
correction
British Columbia up in the arms
secondlook
5 years ago
Right on, BC Dude!!! Decent British Columbians ARE "up in arms" about the hidden agendas/cover-ups conducted by the Campbell 'circle' in in the Leg & in the private sector, controlling Vanoc - just follow the money. It's all about 'linkages' & they are one tight, cicle.
The key is for some vehicle, e.g. a huge online petition to gather 'People Power'. The reason W.A.C. stayed in power so long, was that he listened to the people - he was a populist Premier.
As for Elliot and others who post 'empty' personal remarks - their speak volumes about their agendas.
Speaking of 'empty' remarks: Where's the answer to my question 'gasworks'?
gasworks
5 years ago
He was "WACKY"!
Diogenes
5 years ago
"Is that most intelligent answer to everybody who goes after the REAL Truth, that we all smoke pot?"
It could be, when you do it right! ;-)
Whence having a conversation about the effect marijuana on the psyche’
I remembered a passage from Terry Soutern’s Red Dirt Marijuana.
That passage helped reinforce and reshape my thinking.
I give you that passage. to spend time in contemplation of the ideas his words present
Terry Sothern’s Red Dirt Marijuana
"'How come it's against the law if it's so all-fired good?' asked Harold.
"'Well, now, I use to study 'bout that myself,' said C.K., tightening the lid of the fruit-jar and giving it a pat. 'It ain't because it make young boys like you sick, I tell you that much!'
"C.K. put the fruit-jar beside the shell box, placing it neatly, carefully centering the two just in front of him, and seeming to consider the question while he was doing it.
"'I tell you what it is,' he said then, 'it's 'cause a man see too much when he git high, that's what. He see right through ever'thing . . . You understan' what I say?'
"'What the heck are you talking about, C.K.?'
"'Well, maybe you too young to know what I talkin' 'bout--but I tell you they's a lotta trickin' an' lyin' go on in the world . . . they's a lotta ole bull-crap go on in the world . . . Well, a man git high, he see right through all them tricks an' lies, an' all that ole bull-crap. He see right through there into the truth of it!'
"'Truth of what?'
"'Ever'thing.'
"'Dang, you sure talk crazy, C.K.'
"Sho', they got to have it against the law . . . Sho' you take a man high on good gage, he got no use for they ole bull-crap, 'cause he done see through there. Shoot, he lookin' right down into his ver' soul!'"
Seeing right through ever'thing is not officially encouraged. In fact, it's downright anti-American, esp at a time when a whole lotta trickin' an' lyin' is standard procedure. The majority of the Supreme Court understands this, as does anyone in authority committed to increasing their power.
BC Dude
5 years ago
secondlook
That's one helluva great idea I'll second that!
Someone like http://houseofinfamy.blogspot.com/ as he has also done a great job of keeping this Scandal alive.
WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE GREATER POWER EVEN AGAINST THE CORPORATIONS THAT ARE BEHIND ALL THIS CORRUPTION!
BC Dude
5 years ago
Our media CanWest is a disgrace to OUR Democracy as I will and never have for the past two to three years bought one of their rags and try not to watch (GloBull) or take anything I hear or see with a grain of salt.
We need an independent real news media outlet if there was such a one I'd gladly pay a dollar and a half a day easily!
http://www.iwtnews.com/home
BC Dude
5 years ago
CantWest is also a disgrace against OUR Intelligence.
BC Dude
5 years ago
Check this bit of Treason from Winnipeg!
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/westview/story/3758460p-4345834c.html#top
Holy Hanna Batman?
secondlook
5 years ago
gasworks: It is clear why Mr. Bennett Sr. led this province for over twenty years and it prospered like at no other time. Thus, so many politicians want to call him their mentor, including Campbell; too bad the Premier doesn't heed his own words. Campbell could not be further from what former Premier W.A.C. Bennett was all about.
The former Premier always made the 'circle' bigger. In Campbell's case he keeps the 'circle' tight.
Actually, in many ways, former Premier Glen Clark, who also admired Mr. Bennett Sr. tried to build the economy in an innovative manner. He just wasn't part of the tight 'circle' that has held B.
C. captive for their own best interests - for TOO LONG.
BRING ON THAT PROVINCE WIDE PETITION, BC DUDE!!!!!
As for you, 'gasworks',it is also clear why, my friend, you are simply: [I]gasworks[/I. Your words speak for themselves. Perhaps a little thoughtful reflection would improve the quality of your posts.
BC Dude
5 years ago
secondlook
Well I wish I had the smarts/knowledge to make up a legal petition I'd have done it months ago, There has to be somebody out there who like us are/is fed up with the corruption, greed and organized crime, like a huge cancer in OUR Sacred Hall's Of Democracy The Legislature in VICTORIA BC OUR CAPITAL CITY of OUR BRITISH COLUMBIA!
"The People United Will Never Be Defeated"
I doubt there would be any problem in filling out an online petition and also taking the petition to the streets!
Remember all our fallen comrades who died to keep this country free from the likes of the B.C. liberals under Gordon Campbell's watch.
Gordon Campbell is now off on a 10 day junket to Asia?
BC Dude
5 years ago
CanWest and the B.C. liberal party, here's a small connection of why the local rags aren't putting out any real news!
http://thetyee.ca/electioncentral/2005/05/16/canwest-gave-campbell-48400/
That's four years for me on my disability pension! Totally disgusting as far as I'm concerned, this should be investigated and charges layed to the fullest extent of the law!
Just see if there is such a thing as real justice in British Columbia?
BC Dude
5 years ago
Why hasn't any Law firm brought this forward before?
If,in a case of an "Employee of the Crown" (Bureaucrat of any sort!) trying to withhold any information, try mentioning charge #337 of the Criminal Code of Canada (CCC 337).
Diogenes
5 years ago
hasn't anybody gotten it yet?
Have you any idea how deep this goes?
Or how many years this has been in the works?
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Oh I think so, Dio. Question is, mon ami, finding a way to bring the whole mess to the boil so the odour begins to penetrate the farthest corner of the kitchen. This is not the first time this pot has simmered - it needs be brought slowwwly to the boil so as not to miss the mark again...keep your powder dry.
Diogenes
5 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogernomics
this might help
gasworks
5 years ago
Second look - clearly your memory is faulty and you ought to take a second look.
Your mentor "Wacky" Bennett possessed more corruption in his 25-cent-a-stump little finger than all these other politicians combined.
BC Dude - with respect to Campbell's little junket to Asia, hopefully the Chinese will eat him.
rkewen
5 years ago
It's interesting to see all this talk about W.A.C lately. In light of the Leg Raids and the current all out attack on the assets of the "people" of BC, to think of the Wacky Guy is very appropriate.
I knew WAC near the end of his reign, by which time he was doddering old fool who was the titular leader of a party ungoing transformation. Social Credit was morphing from the party of the people, even or especially those in the hinterlands, farmers and small business (Wacky was a small town hardware merchant in the beginning)into the Social Credit of Corporate Piggies at the Trough, which was then put to death by the Dutchman.
With the Social Credit name damaged goods, the power brokers looked around for a new banner to run under and decided to hijack the then Liberal Party of BC (then more in tune with federal libs) out from under Gordon Wilson and Judy Tyjabi. This was similar to the Reform hijacking of the "real" Conservative Party recently engineered under Harper, with "Gumboots Cryin' in the Rain" MacKay handling the pointy things in the back of people part. Today there may not be a single Liberal MLA who was a Liberal when there were "real"
Liberals in BC. Most Liberals today, except for the "fresh faces" and NPA refugees were either Reform or Social Credit back in the day. There should actually be a Law against them using the Name "Liberal" and it is definitely poor usage to use the word liberal in relation to this party without adding the pre-fix "anti." Wacky's coalition was diametrically different than the genuine, original "Social Credit" imported from the UK, too, but that is a story for another day.
In his day WAC was very successful politically because he was a coalition building populist and won people's votes because his policies were in their interest - unless they happened to be the Coporate Elite. He did an amazingly huge amount of "nationalization" (i.e. expropriation of resources from Corporate, often foreign, interests for a right wing sort of guy. For you younger readers out there, "nationalization" in simple terms in the opposite of "privatization." It is the return of the peoples assets to the people after wresting them by purchase, by law or by force from those who generally either stole them or unfairly acquired them for "token" value.
Don't even get me started on Marathon Realty (the Canadian Pacific Real Estate Arm) and all the land they got for free in return for providing transportation access to remote parts of BC. I fell that when communities lose their CP rail link perhaps CP should return at least some of the land to the city, village or regional district. Then there's the E and N lands on North Vancouver Island the largest private timber holdings in BC, unless I'm mistaken, and the north island NEVER DID get a railroad. Lots of money has been made off of that free land though.
Wacky from Kelowna, when Kelowna was a small town, not Orange County North, knew that the wealth of British Columbia was generated in the hinterlands by the miners, loggers, farmers, fishers and even the rivers could contribute through flood/irrigation control and power generation. In order to extract this wealth these hinterlands needed infrastructure, roads, railroads, airports and dams, dams, dams. The improved infrastructure not only made the resouces more accessible but also improved the lifestyles of the worker bees extracting that wealth.
--con't below
gasworks
5 years ago
My Gosh, it must have taken you days to write that.
You lost me at "It's interesting".....
rkewen
5 years ago
gasworks, you apparently have the attention span of the average North American. I don't know how they can diagnose ADD, when the average person seems to be falling behing the attention span of a gnat.
rkewen
5 years ago
You're spared gasworks, I wrote Part II, twice, but the ever so graceful blogging software that Tyee chooses to use ate it twice for two different reasons. Since I had just logged in, I didn't expect any difficulty so hadn't made a back-up copy before playing the lotto and clicking
"Post Comment."
In other words, why bother
Good luck at ever learning anything gasworks - if you work at it eventually you can get up to three words, then four. Eventually you too can read a whole page in a day!
secondlook
5 years ago
Yes, gasworksyou are correct about one thing: I am grateful to say, that the Hon. W.A.C. was a personal mentor as I was growing up. thus, my perspective is from a close, personal experience. He was a futurist, wise beyond his era. Perhaps if he had been yours, gasworks, his wisdom would have rubbed off on you LOL! I'm sorry for whatever reasons, you sound so bitter.
He was also a feminist: He understood that women had to work 10 times as hard as a man, to do the same job - nothing much has changed, has it folks? He always appealed to the women's common sens, when their husbands were out on strike - the women 'got it'.
Sadly, rkewen, the Social Credit Party, really bore no resemblance to any other party (but was W.A.C.'s creative recipe of the best ideas from other Parties, topped off with his own genius) did become, dating back to his son's era, the"
What you are missing rkewen, is the same 'circle' controls the present B.C. Libs.
I specifically was motivated to W.A.C Bennett's name in the current context of this thread: current, rampant corruption that is spreading like a cancer throughout government; the Raid on the Leg is symptomatic of that.
In contrast, former Premier W.A.C. ran a tight ship with a long term vision of what would benefit the taxpayers - vs the hidden personal agendas of senior bureaucrats, govt. appointments & elected members of the Legislature manipulating the system for their own & their friends advantage/profit. It is not a stretch to list many dramatic scandals of this nature since the days of Mr. Bennett Sr. This corruption simply did not happen under the leadership of W.A.C.
As you stated, rkewen, he was too busy building the province's & the people's wealth:
Minus a few needless derogatory name calling, rkewen, I was interested in reading your comments. For the record, during the last days of W.A.C Bennett's journey on this earth his body may have been failing him, but his mind was as sharp as a tack!!
BC Dude
5 years ago
So many people involved in this BC organized crime scandal. WE should bring in Outside Investigaters to crack this obscene Travesty of Justice case wide open Now!
Warnke, Allan - Former B.C. Liberal MLA who quit the party after criticizing Gordon Campbell. Warnke told CBC News the Basi Boys were filling meetings with phantom members so they could take it over.
In 2006 Bornman was a $1,300 per week articling law student at the prestigious law firm of McCarthy Tetrault, which donated $118,000 to the 2003 Paul Martin Liberal leadership campaign that Bornman was a player in.
rkewen
5 years ago
secondlook, it is refreshing to read someone's comments on my posting when it is obvious they actually read and understood it. Although I'm sure we could find particular points to disagree about, at least we are commenting on the same world, even if viewed from different pespectives.
Maybe I didn't make that point very clearly, but I'm not missing that at all, though I guess I don't express it very well, see:
Your perceptive and honest comment has inspired me to, one more time, write and post the second part of the above - tentatively called "Evolution (or Intelligent Design of - if you must) of the BC Liberal Party - Part 2."
I'm not sure what you mean by the "derogatory name calling," other than the almost affectionate variation of the man's initials that quite likely caused his friends and wife to call him Wacky (though maybe you could clear me up on that), I can't find any gratuitous name calling in that post - it ain't name calling when it is a description of reality, i.e. Corporate Piggies.
By the way, I'm glad to hear the old gentleman managed to keep his faculties sharp up until his death, as I am getting to the age where I worry about such things myself. I don't know if young Bill will be so fortunate. The doddering old fool part - when he was premier I was of an age where anybody over thirty was likely to fall into the doddering old fool category.
If you haven't checked it out, there's a variety of material relating to the Leg Raid case at:
http://houseofinfamy.blogspot.com/
as well as at BC Mary's of course.
BC Dude
5 years ago
Is there some resemblance here?
This reminds me of the time long ago when I was driving taxi it was a Friday night in a small town, when four young (14 to 16-year-old) teenagers got into my cab with two 12 packs a beer.
I told them they weren't getting into my cab unless they put all the beer into the trunk of my cab!
About four blocks from where I picked these kids up the local cops stopped my cab and charged me with contributing (buying alcohol for minors) to the delinquency of minors.
They arrested me and threw me in jail for a couple hours.
Then they released me and told me that I was being made a Crown witness against the teens?
This sort of sounds like what's happening with Bornmancourt case guilty then!
BC Dude
5 years ago
oops, "guilty then" not supposed to be there
secondlook
5 years ago
You have redeemed yourself, rkewen - I totally appreciated your response to my earlier post, with all of your clarifications. You certainly see reality. Thank you for your kind words. I am in concert with you as I am using an awful lot of reminder stickies these days, myself . . .
Actually, I don't think our perspectives, overall, are that far apart. Furthermore, you have a great sense of humour . . . & so did Mr. Bennett, Sr. I particularly chuckled at your dark humour:
Let me tell you, he had the Dutchman's number, too! What a blight he was on the landscape of B.C. - no pun intended!
Mrs. Bennett, May, called her husband "Cecil". I called him "Mr. Bennett". I can still hear his laugh with the twinkle in his eye . . . I have no doubt that he is not laughing about the dismantling of British Columbia by the 'circle'.
I will wait with baited breathe to read Part II of your post.
maestro
5 years ago
Rkewen:
Good comments comrade...
(.....also starting to see your " inner Don Rickles " more and more).
Have a good one.
Skookum1
5 years ago
The E&N was a sop to Islanders after the CPR chose a mainland terminus (aka Vancouver); it took some strong-arming to get them to build it, largely because of the clout of the Dunsmuir-owned collieries in Nanaimo.
When Victorians voted for Confederation they were duped into thinking that they would be the railhead for trains arriving from Montreal....the only way that would have been viable would be via the Homathko River-Bute Inlet-Seymour Narrows route to Campbell River, then down the island from there. The idea was scotched, so to speak, by the Chilcotin War of 1864, memories of which were fresh when the CPR line surveys were carried out. One other alternate route via Lillooet-Squamish-Sechelt might have been able to bridge to Vancouver Island by running north up to the Malaspina Peninsula and then via Cortes and Quadra Islands to the Big Island, but that never got serious consideration or even, I think, a survey. The CPR went for the ample unclaimed land in the Burrard Inlet-English Bay area, trumping the ambitions of Victoria as well as of New Westminster and Port Moody, each of whom had assumed they would be the obvious terminus. CPR brass in Montreal had other ideas, which is why they chose Burrard Inlet, and we wound up with a city built beneath a near-permanent shelf of very rainy cloud....
That's why the North Island was supposed to have a rail line, at least in the Island way of thinking.
BTW has anybody else taken note of the Tourism BC rebranding of "North Vancouver Island" lately?
BC Dude
5 years ago
My Grandchildren will be really Proud of me for letting this Travesty happen! Not
Campbell is a traitor who has sold his soul for greed.
http://hydrofactsbc.ca/documents/October2006_release.pdf
Diogenes
5 years ago
Rkewen secondlook,
Thank you for the exchanges.
It is good to see those with opposing views can remain civil
Hats off to ya
Dodgy Knees
rkewen
5 years ago
Thanks for the background on the Island Make Believe Railroad Skookum. There's also an interesting story about why Regina was plopped down in the middle of nowhere like it was (no offense to folks from Regina, you've turned it into a paradise). It has to do with the land at the logical place already being under private ownership and thus not available "for free" from the crown. VoilÃ*, thus arose from the prairie sod Regina!
I'm not sayin' that those willing to undertake the massive job of linking the country and defeating the natural north-south corridors for trade especially in the west didn't deserve the incentives. The government had more land to offer than money, well according to everybody but the first nations perhaps, and it was a huge and important undertaking at the time.
For example the early days of the silver rush in the Kootenays helped turn Spokane into a real city. The lakes and rivers, the only transportation for ore and supplies all led south to US railheads and supplies flowed out of and ore into Spokane, not to mention prospectors looking for some off-season relaxation. With all that ore needing to be moved, railroads soon were falling over themselves trying to start hauling what was essentially money, that just hadn't been to the mint yet. It got so competitive that two railroads were fighting to serve Sandon, a town that today has at most a couple dozen full time residents today, and that's up from just a few years ago.
My point is that a humongous chunk of land was alienated from the crown and given to somebody, as inducement to build a railroad maybe as far as Campbell River or maybe farther, I'm foggy on that. We both know no railroad was ever built north of Nanaimo, yet myriad individuals and companies have been logging on that "private" land for about a century, I know much of that time free of any forestry regulation applicable to crown land (not that that was much) and probably free of much of the also not so onerous stumpage much of the time.
Now if I could just convince the government to give me some really nice beachfront property somewhere as an inducement to build a physio-therapy health spa say for seniors and then just kinda not get around to building the spa, but build myself a nice beachfront home with a dock for my fleet to kinda kick back in during the meantime, where do I apply?
rkewen
5 years ago
should be VoilÃ*, thus arose from the prairie sod Regina!
sorry
rkewen
5 years ago
Somebody (in the machine) is translating when I hit "Post Comment" it much be a font change with different character mapping on the new font.
Skookum1
5 years ago
Special characters issue; something to do with the forum-publishing software they use; I've run into it on other characters too. Never mind the default censorship of even "George Carlin words" (well, not quite all, but enough to be f*****g annoying [asterisks here are mine for irony]).
Skookum1
5 years ago
Just to clarify, or rather emphasize, this is during the EARLY part of the silver rush. In the same way that the Dewdney Trail was built to tie the Rock Creek and Wild Horse Creek gold rushes to the Lower Mainland in the 1860s, the CPR's track-building abilities were called on to build a line from Hope to Cranbrook, tangled and twisted and ferry-ridden as it had to be, in order to thwart the economic forces of the US-oriented railways who were first in the region. And in the process they got another swathe of land flanking the new right-of-way. It was more realities of terrain than by design that the "southern mainline" twists and turns, but that also helped garner the CPR much more land than if they'd been able to build it in a straight line; and various spur lines also yielding the same result.
Where the CPR mainline came closest to the border, at Eholt (Midway) today was one of the largest railway interchanges in the West, and also one of the busiest border crossings in terms of commercial freight.
I thought it was three railroads into Sandon? Worth mentioning here that the 1890-1900 decades saw a fit of speculative railway incorporations, criss-crossing the province as part of a huge land-grab; only a few got built of this "railway rush", the most notable being the PGE but also including some of the tiny lines in the Kootenays, as well as the BCER and its Stave Valley Branch. Not sure if the logging road networks around Chehalis were in the same category of legislation (the Railway Act, I'd guess, which interestingly enough governs or governed ski lifts and gondolas...).
I don't think the CPR lands on Vancouver Island were originally theirs; the E&N got built with Dunsmuir money, I think; hmmm I'm just reading something about that and will check later, as I know the E&N got built as part of a CPR/Canadian attempt to come to terms with BC re the "Carnarvon Terms of Separation" quarrel of the mid-1870s. I know the Dunsmuirs were involved somehow; my impression is that the rail lease was originally granted to them, and then eventually they sold the lot - collieries, rail line and forests - to the CPR. Might be because of James Dunsmuir becoming Premier in 1900, i.e. having to divest such an obvious conflict-of-interest. Not that that's ever really stopped BC politicians....
Skookum1
5 years ago
Typo: "Carnarvon Terms of Separation" should be "Carnarvon Terms OR Separation", which was BC's threat to Ottawa to live up to the constitutional deal "or else".
rkewen
5 years ago
"Evolution (or Intelligent Design of - if you must) of the BC Liberal Party - Part 2."
So what did W.A.C. Bennett leave the people of BC with after twenty years? After all he guided the province through twenty years of social, economic and technological change. His legacy was that he left a province with a wealth of resources, and those resources were controlled by the people of the province to whom their actually and ultimately belonged.
Granted some resource extraction and processing was controlled by corporations, even foreign corps in many cases. But ultimate control and regulation was exercised by the government in the name of the people.If forestry corps wanted to take the trees to be processed somewhere by cheaper labor - nope, can't have the trees anymore. Timber allotments were granted with the communities' needs at least part of the equation. Alcan was given water rights and then eventually a whole 'nother river, but the quid pro quo was that they would use that energy to produce aluminum. With their power advantage and location on tidewater close to Asia, the only way to lose money in that scenario is....well, to not lose money, but you can always make the books say you do lose money. I understand they are requiring some creative writing classes in Accounting Programs now, or is someone pulling my leg?
Certain resources like Hydro Development, a railroad to serve the northern parts of the province and Ferries to deal with the fact that the capitol and largest city and other locations were separated by larges expanses of water, salt chuck and freshwater. For some of these projects Wacky thought (and the people apparently agreed) the people would be better served by "nationalization," thus the creation of BC Ferries, BC Hydro and BC Rail - to name the three most prominent.
Sure there was a bit of corruption, how could there not be for a twenty year stretch in a province just growing out of its "frontier" period? A cabinet minister even went to jail and Flyin' Phil should have maybe got life, just for his driving infractions. But unlike later transmorgrified versions of Wacky's Social Credit, criminal activity wasn't the order of the day or the raison d'etre.
Some people think Bennett signed a bad deal with the first Columbia Basin Treaty, I might even be in that camp. But let's get things in perspective, it's already expired and been renewed on better terms (obviously it wasn't for 990 years). Also he was dealing with the Americans who will steal everything they can get without a gun, and sometimes they even resort to the gun, like these days when they need more oil, or a couple decades back when United Banana was going to maybe have to start paying actual money for bananas to farmers.
The bottom line is W.A.C. left a province with incredible wealth, in complete control of its resources. B.C. was in a position where if any resource or energy policy seemed to be not right with the changes that come with time, B.C. itself and the representatives of the people could decide how to change and adapt and improve these policies. That's the legacy Cecil left this province.
With part three I will briefly outline the state of this legacy today - how it is being looked after by the Soup Nazi and his crackers in Victoria.
rkewen
5 years ago
Skookum, I never thought CPR had anything to do with the Railroad that Never Was on the North Island. It was just the same kind of inducement based land giveaway. Most stuff here in my part of Southern BC is CPR of course, though there is the old Burlington Northern that comes from the south and joined with the CPR at Troup Junction, about 4 miles up the West Arm of Kootenay Lake east of Nelson. As far as I know all the track and telegraph lines are removed from that right away this side of the border.
Diogenes
5 years ago
Ok back on topic
to begin to get
the depth of the goings on that caused the raid on the legislarure buildings
look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogernomics
The party names have long since lost their meaning. thank Roger
BC Dude
5 years ago
Come on we can't let this thread die!
We've got to keep the pressure on these so-called politicians it's getting to the point that I think the people could do a much better job of looking after this great province and our great country Canada!
All the corporations should be nationalized just to show that they don't hold the power "WE THE PEOPLE HOLD ALL THE POWER" all we have to do is stop buying, working, just stop everything or 2-3-4 days what ever!
BC Dude
5 years ago
If this site doesn't scare the hell out of you
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060916233655368
And make you mad enough to write letters to the media your MLA's and get out on the streets with Signs, Placards, Petitions we've tried the democratic way with no luck. Now may I suggest, starting today all Unions in British Columbia, before it's too late should call A GENERAL STRIKE and get rid of these clowns, get right into the faces of all the dirt bags that are conspiring to Sellout/dismantle OUR British Columbia!
This Is the Fight of Our Lives for Our Democratic Rights and Freedoms!
Yes even the citizens the taxpayers of this OUR province should also walk off the job!
In 1983 we were on the verge of a general strike but we were sold out by the Kelowna Accord at that time Bill Bennett and Jack Munro head of the I. W. A.
BC Dude
5 years ago
And this includes All the CanWest rags
secondlook
5 years ago
Re:
Quote:
Well done, rkewen!! Yes . . . I did take note of your use of "Cecil" etc. You are a gifted writer with a broad, open mind. You left ME smiling today.
Part 3 will be a blockbuster - I can feel it coming . . . .Go get 'em tiger!!
I'd better post this before my power/cable cuts out.
BC Dude
5 years ago
Once more let me remind you what fascism is. It need not wear a brown shirt or a green shirt - it may even wear a dress shirt. Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing that people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege.
T.C.Douglas
This is a great site for real truth!
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060916233655368
BC Dude
5 years ago
Here is another Great site!
http://www.cfoss.com/milligantax.html
I'm totally disgusted with Our Justice and Political system!
Delay after delay of 28/12/2003 Legislature raid "Old Boyz Club"
They have sold out True/Real justice for payola, SHAME.
May you rot in hell as the money you helped scam will keep dante's fires going!
"Corruption and hypocrisy ought not to be inevitable products of democracy, as they undoubtedly are today" : Mahatma Gandhi
"Those in power need checks and restraints lest they come to identify the common good for their own tastes and desires, and their continuation in office as essential to the preservation of the nation." -- Justice William O. Douglas (1898-1980), U. S. Supreme Court Justice Source: We, The Judges, 1956
Bye 4 now, Keep the Pressure On and have a great day!
Alcibiades
5 years ago
BC Dude,
Wasn't there another tax proposal something like the Milligan tax that proposed to collect a tiny portion of a cent for internet use and then pay the funds back - through bandwidth providers etc. - to the countries in which the internet users lived?
I think it was also theorized as an enormous source of wealth and an offset against other forms of tax.
rkewen
5 years ago
WAC's Legacy Today:
or The Last Half Century of BC Politics - Part 3(a)
This will be shorter (I hope) than the first two parts. I am just going to list some of the stuff Cecil left us with and what is happening with each today.
BC Rail - [I]I will not sell BC Rail, blah, blah, blah.[/I] Gordon Campbell on the campaign trail against Glen Clark after Clark had been tenderized by the courts and media in a blatant case of character assasination.
Not only was BC Rail sold in a process which may have been not only too secret but maybe compromised as well. The Sale of BC Rail also seems to be somehow tangled up in this Legislature Raid Investigation - if for no other reason the fact that the sale of another piece (Robert's Bank Spur) was halted immediately after the Raid.
The new owner apparently didn't get the manual that explains how to keep the trains on the tracks. Well don't worry, they should be able to figure it out in 990 years.
BC Hydro - Perhaps you've noticed the slick PR campaign on a TeeVee screen near you. This is designed to soften us all up for paying rates comparable to say New York City in the not too distant future - that is if the blow dryers of the SunBelt leave enough for us to use.
BC Hydro has been being broken up into pieces, one part shuffled off to the states (records and billing - Accenture has the contract - don't worry they are very experienced, they used to do the books for Enron under their former name Andersen Accounting) Everybody in BC should familiarize themselves with things like IPPs (Independent Power Producers), Ledcor Corp and Bill 30, which removes all power from municipalities and regional districts to have any say in private corporate hydro developments (or any development) in their regions. Don't believe me, talk to someone from Squamish or Whistler, they didn't want the Ledcor project - too bad!
BC Ferries - At least semi-privatized and being run aground by the Ugly American. Mr. Hahn has his priorities straight though, he knows that if a ship from your fleet sinks, move heaven and earth to make sure you get the lawyers and the PR folks on site FIRST. Safety folks and Accident Investigators, no rush, take your time.
con't below.....
rkewen
5 years ago
con't from above - BC Politics - Part 3(b)
News just today, the North Coast is entirely WITHOUT ferry service while the only boat available goes into dry dock. Who cares, they're nowhere near any Olympic venues or the Rockpile in James Bay.
BC GAS - oops I meant Teresan - Don't let your lobster turn off the burner by reaching out of the pot. That gas gets turned off - the meter stops and these guys make less money.
The tranmission part/pipelines of BC Gas or Terasen now, is now being run by Kinder - Morgan. The most dangerous such company in the United States and that's a hard title to win in a country where worker safety is right up there with promoting condom use under Bu$hCo. It's not just workers at risk, they recently blew up a suburban neighborhood north of Seattle, that's a nice almost local touch. Maybe that's why the Soup Nazi picked them, he liked their work.
Alcan/Kitimat - Alcan wants to quit all that messy business and hard work of actually making aluminum, besides it takes workers and then you have to pay them. When you have a virtually free river or two it makes more sense to just sell power from some beach over your blackberry. The new Enronized electricity market is just so much cooler than making actual stuff.
Understandably Kitimat feels differently and doesn't think that they should get to use the people and first nation's people's water unless they use it to do what they originally agreed to do. Less understandably, the Attorney General (who I naively thought was MY lawyer, unless I was accused of a crime and he was prosecuting me on behalf of the rest of you)of BC is supporting Alcan
in the court case to determine if Alcan actually has any obligations or just gets to have free rivers for nothing.
As you should be able to tell from the above, or from just looking around if you pay attention, W.A.C. Bennett's legacy is in dire straits. Gordo was talking about trying to break the elder Bennett's record, in other words be premier for 15 more years or so. Well I wonder what there would be left to steal or exploit in BC by then. I kinda think it would look like Afghanistan if we are subjected to another ten years or so of this - perhaps even complete with the insurgents.
The Right WingNuts in the in the US have spent the last fifty years working on undoing the New Deal created by FDR to help that country climb out of the hole created by the Ancestral Right WingNuts that led to the Stock Market Crash of '29 and the Great Depression. Their Right Wingnut Clones in this country have be working on dismantling the social safty net created greatly by that Greatest Canadian, Tommy Douglas since before the Liar with the Huge Jaw
accelerated the process to stay in step with his great pal Ronnie RayGun.
Alert: They are closing in on their goals have managed to eerily recreate the same circumstances that prevailed in the Gilded Age and the Roaring 20's. Look around, notice the increasing disparity of wealth, look at the mounting Corporate Corruption, see the foreign policy conducted by the equivalent of schoolyard bullies - it's all there, though Canned West doesn't exactly try to bring it to your attention.
That great Canadian, John Kenneth Galbraith, who helped rescue North America from the Great Depression by being the economic archhitect of the New Deal, at the age of 95, after living under the reign of King George III, said recently:
I know how you feel Ken, I feel your pain.
secondlook
5 years ago
Rkewen, that was BRILLIANT. No question about it: I know that Cecil would be proud of you.
It's been a long time since I have posted on the Tyee. Thank you for motivating me to say my piece.
I can't help but wonder who you are . . . you have an impressive, firm grasp of the 'political landscape; spiced up with just the right amount of sarcasm & wit - Sir: You really 'get it':
.
There is so much unrest and frustration at the destruction that you have so ably laid out above. Personally, I am deeply involved in battling the evil forces of this 'circle', manipulating any & all assets of B.C. that their tentacles can grab. I have had a bird's eye view of cover-up & corruption and linkages that connect the circle.
BC Dude, you are right; the troops must be organized. People need a rallying point - they need to be able to channel their energies into a combined force to be reckoned with.
I nominate YOU, rkewen, to lead the charge of People Power to stop this 'circle' in their tracks. This province is sorely in need of a leader with back bone & integrity coupled with intelligence.
Well, what do you know . . . I can hear W.A.C. Bennett chuckling . . . . .
rkewen
5 years ago
secondlook:You say:
Any information relating to the Leg Raids or the "corruption and linkages that connect the circle" would be very welcome and much appreciated at either: BC Mary's at:
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
or:
The House of Infamy at:
http://houseofinfamy.blogspot.com/
Anything of a more confidential nature (i.e.- that you would prefer not to post publicly as a comment or even as a featured posting can be sent to my close associate - the proprietor of the House of Infamy at:
The old coot also welcomes submissions for possible posting at the House, which may be submitted to the address above.
side note to Mr. Beers and staff:
The way the re-login process for expired logins works is atrocious. For the normal commenter this means they lose their comment, then log in to the front page and log in yet again to the article in question. As a programmer I know the only excuse for this is ignorance (of the problem),laziness (about dealing with it), lack of programming skills or a concious effort to irritate people and drive them away.
Since I can't imagine why you would WANT to drive people away, I tend to assume it is one of the first three possibilities. As with all computer issues there is usually another way to do it. In this case there are any number of more graceful, convenient or even elegant ways to deal with this log-in issue. For starters check out some other blog software, Blogger, whatever FireDogLake uses, to name two that come to mind as examples of better solutions.
BC Dude
5 years ago
Legislature Scandal is just the Tip of This Grand Theft of OUR Future!
DO NOT KEEP SILENT when your own ideas and values are being attacked. ...If a dictatorship ever comes to this country, it will be by the default of those who keep silent. We are still free enough to speak. Do we have time? No one can tell." -- Ayn Rand, Philosophy
We have OUR Community Centers to gather at these were bought and paid for by US and OUR Mothers/Fathers!
We Need to Organize NOWas OUR Rights are being stripped away by Corporations who own OUR elected officials!
"NOW" That would be a great name for a People's Paper.
BC Dude
5 years ago
WOW, Read & Heed
The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity; and worship without sacrifice: Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
BC Dude
5 years ago
Check these sites out for the latest on the BRITISH COLUMBIA LEGISLATURE RAIDS OF 2003!
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
http://houseofinfamy.blogspot.com/
BC Dude
5 years ago
It seems to me that this site is dying out, Why?
This Is the Biggest Scandal to Ever Hit British Columbians the RCMP Should Be Totally Involved and Bring down Every Dirty Fish Involved in the Corruption of This Our Beautiful British Columbia!
As CanWest Has Been and Is Totally Liable for This Conspiracy to Cover up the Organized Crime Involved in Our Great Halls of Justice.
We Have To Organize to Force Our Legal Guardians to Get on Top of This Fourth With.
Again this is from a very concerned senior citizen who has always been brought up to believe in being a law-abiding, hard-working citizen!
BC Mary
5 years ago
BC Dude: Did you know there will be a 1-day sitting of the B.C. Legislature on 22 November? It's for the purpose of swearing in the new Minister of Children and Family Development. Yeah. No kidding.
Two days later, on 24 November, there's the big final pre-trial hearing for Basi, Virk, Basi to decide if defence and prosecution are ready to proceed to trial.
Given all the trouble and expense of bringing 79 MLAs to Victoria, why not take care of the other issues waiting for attention?
And at very least, give comfort to British Columbians to see that the Legislature is on deck with us, at this anxious time.
Because when it comes right down to it, it's the whole B.C. system of government which will be on trial.
BC Mary
5 years ago
Yikes, it's not even a Cabinet Minister, it's a "representative" or something.
See Victoria Times Colonist for 17 Nov., Legislature to sit next week to appoint children's watchdog
G West
5 years ago
Nothing but a huge PR exercise Mary, the Opposition should turn this rubber chicken into a real turkey by bringing up every embarrassing and questionable thing Campbell has done since 2001.
BC Dude
5 years ago
B.C. Mary
This Minister of Children and Family Development is a sham to cover up the 700+ Dead Children’s files put into a storage shed, hopefully to be forgotten by the public.
I wonder what the real costs to the taxpayers of British Columbia and how that money could be spent helping low income families, the homeless, etc.
I don't know how these so-called MLA's of Gordon Campbell's dictatorship can sleep at night because eventually they will have to answer to the Piper/People!
A total conspiracy against the people of British Columbia by the Gordon Campbell B.C. liberals and the CanWest media to cover up this and the B.C. Legislature Raids of 2003.
G West
5 years ago
BC Dude
They don't have much trouble sleeping I'd say, dude. Campbell runs the whole show, makes all the decisions and tells his troops what to do, where to go and what to say.
If the wheels ever fall off it's all going to come back on Gordon's shoes...all the way up to his nose.
G West
5 years ago
An interesting quote from Joy McPhail that I picked up at BC Mary's blog just now:
J. MacPhail: I'll go in exactly the opposite direction of the Solicitor General. I think the public should have been informed that a special prosecutor was appointed. In fact, I'm appalled that the government didn't let the public know that a special prosecutor had been appointed. I can absolutely guarantee that if the previous administrations — any previous administration — had kept the appointment of a special prosecutor secret, this member and his leader would go absolutely nuts in crying foul.
More details here
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
About just how important the present Government thinks the 'public interest' is.
Where oh where is Joy McPhail now?
maestro
5 years ago
G Ster
Far be it for humble me to remind thou.
Alas, Comradette Joy'ster McPhail , after ????degree of resistance , succumbed to the temptation and went over to the dark(or light) side and married a Hollywood-ish TV and Film producer James Shavick ie (show Joy the money $$$$ !!!!) and is a partner in his entertainment firm.
Or is it just moi...or do these NDP ers, in knee-jerk formulaic fashion tend to short shelf -life "shit disturb" like Pro-wrestlers to market themselves ala PT Barnum..there is NO such thing as bad publicity...but PLEASE ....again we repeat P-L-E-A-S-E spell the name C-O-R-R-E-C-T-L-Y ...
ok J'OY McFail, we will !!!
Reminds me of the time ol comrade Moe Sihota looked down upon us from Luxury Box seats at the BC Lions game...oh how symbolic.
Go LIONS GO !!!
G West
5 years ago
It's just you maestro.
maestro
5 years ago
G-ster
Just a REAL world update...(no charge), painful though it be with Leftie heros.
BC Dude
5 years ago
We must demand OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS BACK by joining the rally on 22 November at 2:00 PM, on the steps of the B.C. Legislature and demand they carry on with the Legislature Trial as the 79 MLA's will be in town.
Why not hold legislature scandal on the 22nd also? Not two days later when the MLA's won't be available. I DON'T THINK SO!
As these low lifes are in OUR, THE PEOPLE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA'S LEGISLATURE BUILDINGS IN OUR CAPITAL CITY VICTORIA!
Don't We the Taxpayers Pay Their Exorbitant Salaries and all the perks that go with it 90% of this amount the public will never see?
ARE WE NOT THE EMPLOYERS OF THESE VERMIN?
The Trade Unions And US, WE should be up arms and organizing for the biggest rally since we were sold out in 82 by the head of one of the biggest unions IWA Jack Monroe.
I think it was known as the Kelowna Accord
CanWest Corp Disgusts me!
Wally Hopeless/Oppal
BC Dude
5 years ago
" So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men: Voltaire. François Marie Arouet (1694-1778)"
If they don't work then they shouldn't get paid, apply the same laws that they apply to us.
I think that we still have time to organize a massive demonstration of all unions, and just the general public to be out in front and around OUR BC LEGISLATURE BUILDINGS and legislate these useless politicians (For the People by the People) back to work and just don't let them leave the Legislature Buildings, before these rights are taken away from us, this our democratic rights!
G West
5 years ago
maestro:
this,
,
which YOU posted - was what I was responding to. I think Harald Kann has your number.
Diogenes
5 years ago
there may be some inspiration here
The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude
http://www.creativeresistance.ca/communitas/1550-politics-of-disobedience-discourse-on-voluntary-servitude.htm
There are always a few, better endowed than others, who feel the weight of the yoke and cannot restrain themselves from attempting to shake it off: these are the men who never become tamed under subjection and who always, like Ulysses on land and sea constantly seeking the smoke of his chimney, cannot prevent themselves from peering about for their natural privileges and from remembering their ancestors and their former ways. These are in fact the men who, possessed of clear minds and far-sighted spirit, are not satisfied, like the brutish mass, to see only what is at their feet, but rather look about them, behind and before, and even recall the things of the past in order to judge those of the future, and compare both with their present condition. These are the ones who, having good minds of their own, have further trained them by study and learning. Even if liberty had entirely perished from the earth, such men would invent it. For them slavery has no satisfactions, no matter how well disguised.
- Etienne de la Boetie: "The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude"
maestro
5 years ago
G ster....
Your glib desperation again ignores the obvious inference to the latter..it AIN'T moi...
Harald Kann is obviously accessing some In-Site computer.
G West
5 years ago
I reiterate:
It is just you!
Nothing more, nothing less - a figment only, a tiny bit of undigested food stuck between the teeth, a little bit of parsley sitting forlorn on the side of a greasy plate.
Just you maestro, and afterthoughts.
BC Dude
5 years ago
Where Oh Where Has Our Opposition Gone?
http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/
Carol James and the rest of the opposition for the People should be in Victoria on Nov. 22nd demanding that the 79 MLA's stay in session.
Because of the Biggest Scandal to Ever Hit BC and British Columbians In History, Bassi Verk Bassi and Organized Crime a Cancer on Society!
It seems every conceivable media source is in cahoots with this total Conspiracy to cover up (CanWest and their affiliate Global(bull) TV not one mentioned of the Bassi Verk Bassi investigation or trial dates?) the Gordon Campbell criminals and not make this public?
If I could be in Victoria (health issues) in front of OUR B.C. Legislature Buildings with the Raging Grannies and hopefully hundreds if not thousands of British Columbians I'd be there in a flash!