Two points. I believe organizations of any stripe are totally in a conflict of interest when called upon to investigate themselves. The RCMP and the AG clearly don't care about common sense.
The second point. Trivial perhaps. There is no New Westminster RCMP. The New Westminster Police Service is stand alone.

Beer swilling yokel? Show

Beer swilling yokel? Show some respect. And don't talk about the Gestapo and link the RCMP like that, things were much worse and secret in the past. This is the type of hysterical behaviour that takes away from the discussion. Slowly, much too slowly, progress is happening. Back in 1994 Wally Oppal released his report into policing in B.C., he was a respected judge then. He reviewed the RCMP here and made some recomendations, the biggest one was that if the RCMP continued to refuse to submit to outside investigation of compliants, they should leave B.C. Basically he said that there should be civilian oversite into allegations of police deviance. There was a Provincial police force here, up until 1950 or about. However, smaller police forces tend to have more deviance if not held to strict standards, like the systemic deviance in the V.P.D. in years past. This case sounds like bullshit to me, I doubt it was an "execution", probably the officer panicked, and then the cover up began. I predict a no-disclosure out of court settlement for this mans family, it will come out of the multi million dollar ****-up fund they have for stuff like this.

It is quite common for people to get shot in the back of the head (in self defense) when the individual is choking the shooter. The nazi's used to see it happen all the time.
If the rcmp can investigate themselves and define their own guilt I would like to do the same the next time I get a trafic citation. I'm absolutely certain that I would be found innocent of speeding and I could also claim that my investigation was completely without bias.How completely ridiculous that an agency can investigate themselves and then expect the result to be accepted.

Like Trueman, I see a small point of difference with this story. It concerns RCMP Staff Sgt. John Ward who I first heard about when he called one of the most significant press conferences ever held in B.C., on the day after the Legislature Raids.

Ward (unlike all other public officials) gave us the insight into organized crime, by which we should have judged everything we heard about The Legislature Raids. It's sure as heck what kept me watching the Basi & Virk story.

I'm not suggesting Sgt Ward was misquoted in this article; not really. But if he did respond as stated -- and a recent photo of him does show him looking almost beaten-down himself -- I'd certainly like to know what has happened to Sgt. Ward in the 3 years since the police made their historic raids on the B.C. Legislature.

I surely do salute the mother of Ian Bush, who is doing what a loving parent must do, despite the hurt.

As usual....we, the citizen-taxpayers, don't have all the facts, and may never have them all.

Regardless, if one does not have a 100% independent investigation by 100% neutral and objective parties, the old bromide of " Justice not only be done, but also be seen to be done" is increasingly creating 2 classes of citizens.

The one class of citizens is those that are in Gov't who we used to call "servants of the public" aka the elected Politicians and Civil Servants......and the second class is the rest of us taxpayer citizens. (Note the order I implied ,WE are "second class" )

In the Big Picture...all I see,( and believe me based on a lot of personal experience) is a Public Company called Gov't that has inverted the original " Servants of the Public " role into a great modern scam.

THEY (Gov't) are our now OUR bosses/masters, but when the shit hits the fan they now claim they are the company(ie Gov't) employees....thus the Company(Gov't) is now US responsible for THEIR actions... then the circle the wagons and denial- mode starts. We, the humble public, pay for all this and it is often used against us.

Talk about insiders and old boys clubs....

As Climber implies....silence will likely be bought off...and little if any true justice ever served ie the FACTS likely never properly adjudicated,......and usually somebody gets moved and promoted after all this,it's almost formulaic.

This sounds much like the OJ Simpson trial.
The criminal justice system failed...onto to civil court ie a lawsuit filed, where the benchmarks re "guilt" or liability are different and also less onerous.

The Bush family may win in this civil arena, but the citizens will still pay in that case also, given the Go'vt (aka now shifts to US )is listed as a defendant.

As the wheel ,...and the stomach ,...turns and churns

If someone is choking me from behind, as the rookie cop claims, how is it physically possible to shoot him in the BACK of the head? Do they not teach non-lethal take-downs in Regina, or can we expect blazing firearms at every incident. What duplicity!! Typical of the Horseman. We had a similar instance in our home town. The mounted who was in charge of the anti-drug squad, going into my kid's school with a strong message, turned up dead from a herion overdose. How? No one will even know as the ranks closed and the shades were drawn. What message does this send to my son's? It is okay to profess one thing, then do another? When I see the photo's of Ian, grinning and fishing, having a beer with the hockey buddies, getting a bit lippy as all young men do, I see my young son's and I cringe, for it could be them. I hope cop Koester is stripped of his badge and gun forever. I am tired of these pistol-packing cowboys fresh out of academy and looking to prove their manhood.

BCM:

Re Sgt Ward types:

The Shakespearean play that often unfolds is the person in Gov't that actually DOES the job they were hired to do , especially in the public's BEST interests, makes the deadly mistake of ACTUALLY doing it (yes I admit to a little bit of cynicism).

This now sets a "Quality Control" benchmark for peers, not to mention they are deemed a "rat", traitor etc.

Being a Sargeant usually means usually closer to pension....so often they then get placed behind a desk...in an uncomfortable spot,...(maybe Dease Lake ???)...or "forced" to retire early via they get their pension bridged so as not to lose any FULL pension.

However, the MAIN message is sent to all others in the group not to undermine the internal lowest- common- denominator, which can be their fellow civil servants and/or the politicians.

Whistleblower protecting legislation??? token, usually unworkable...still can't fix the aforementioned internal culture.

Rarely a truly evident blood trail ,but often so mind -numbingly obvious a "coincidence", ain't it.

Gee, where are the usual suspects? Afraid that the RCMP are listening, a mysterious knock at the door and a bullet in the back of the head?

This recent RCMP shooting/murder shows how utterly corrupt our whole system is. Ademocracy - no, a police state - yes.

Massive hyprocrasy, at a time we are exporting our so called 'superior' Western Democracy to 2rd world countries like Afghanistan, etc. is laughable; and do not think those people in those 3rd world countries can not see through this BS!

What a bloody shambles!

Grumpy, stop it. How about manslaughter, a scared cop, and his superiors covering up the truth? Look back to years past in regards to questionable police conduct/crimes, especially in regards to Natives. Now the police version is questioned, once in a while police officers get canned, even go to jail. This never happened in the past, the party line was never questioned, they never had to wonder what would happen. There is no where near the accountability there needs to be, but two steps forward, one step back. Unkari-what is it about this drug officers sad death that you don't understand? And why don't you think this guy just had a problem and overdosed, on purpose or accidentalty? I reject the bad apple theory of police deviance, view it as systemic, but understand it has improved and we do have pretty good law enforcement in comparison to other countries. The RCMP are kind of like the Catholic church, not going to change on thier own, kicking and screaming the whole way. Like I have heard, more than once from them "you got nothing to hide, you got nothing to worry about, talk to us"

Maestro: I've read and re-read what you say ... but I don't quite get your drift. So I'll re-state my own position, hoping
you'll come back with more ...

Staff Sgt John Ward is to me, unknown. Perhaps I extrapolated more than I should have, based upon his performance after the Legislature Raids; but no, I think not.

What I think I saw, on 30 Dec 2003, was a steady, mature cop -- a straight arrow -- who seized that quiet holiday moment to open up a public awareness of the immense problem in British Columbia: the proliferation of Organized Crime.

It was only as the days and weeks unfolded, when no other public figure, no news media, nobody picked up on that theme: that a serious rot had entered, and taken hold, and was undermining every aspect of BC life, including (we must presume) the B.C. government ... with a clear trail leading straight up into the prime minister's office.

Nobody else acknowledged the public's need to understand these dangers. Nobody else gave even a moment of their time to reassure, or to explain, that although something awful had been discovered, we the people could rest assured that the premier or the Attorney General or Minister of Justice or the prime minister would damn well look after things for us. Hell no. All we got was "I know nothing." "The police haven't called me." All except for John Ward, who issued the first, clearest and best warning.

That's who John Ward is, in my understanding: The Good Cop. And I absolutely cannot imagine Ward saying (as this story claims) that the public has no right to know anything.

He's the one who, by his example, set me onto the path of tracking the fall-out from the Legislature Raids, because he made it so apparent what we seriously had to fear if we didn't get crime and corruption under control.

I can understand that in a big, tough, para-military organization like the RCMP, he may have suffered for having spoken so honestly, on 30 December 2003 but I hope not.

Const. Koester is most likely a murder.

But to get a conviction you need to p[rove it beyond a reasonable doubt, and that seems unlikely.

Also, because he is RCMP a significant portaion nof the population (and therefore jury) would believe without question any testimony he gave no matter how unbelievable [see Obiedience to Authority].

Const. Koester will get away with murder. And he knew he could get away with it. Thats why he did it in the first place.

Once, in court i personally experienced two RCMP officers testifying my vehicle to have exceeded its maximum possible speed, by about 20 miles an hour!
Yes, some time ago but it made me realize that they feel able to "prove" whatever they feel like proving.
The poor old judge did not argue with them, even when i provided factory specs and stated the road was going uphill to boot!
So i paid my fine, and have kept well clear of our famous guys in red serge ever since.
Ok, so other systems are worse but that is faint praise for our system.

Why do we have the RCMP here in BC? Who kissed who’s ass in order for them to replace our Provincial Police Force. Let’s call for a provincial referendum on getting our Provincial Cops back, then oust the RCMP and send them back to their political head quarters in Ottawa where they get there marching orders from.

woody
With that sentiment, I have no disagreement. It's time the horsemen get up on into their saddles and ride off into the sunset.

At a minimum there has to be, immediately, civilian oversight over the force with respect to all criminal matters in the jurisdiction of the provincial crown.

The rule of law is a joke without real enforceable equity

BCM:

In more concise terms, it seems cops that do their jobs often wake up with targets on their backs if it involves investigating their own or their superiors.

Stay tuned

Re RCMP:

It is my understanding that they are contracted by your Local Gov't to be the local police force.

Our own 'berg is considering turfing them, as they claim the RCMP don't consult but simply submit biils to our City Hall .

However seem to recall Vancouver PD recently running up a tab $5 million over budget.

Personally the cops seem to be more like social workers with guns...more likley to either blow off complaints...or think they have served society well by writing tickets in bogus fishing expeditions under the guises of various media campaigns to make the streets " safer".

Maybe we should have people at minimum wages doing the ticket writing, so the gendarme can concentrate on the bigger fish like their own.

PS Ask a cop about a FIDO call....its when they see something at the end of a shift, and say F*CK IT, DRIVE ON.

Of course they are Maestro. We all pay the bills, but why push the funds through Ottawa. Keep the money local and serve the local community. Get rid of the paramilitary RCMP and replace it with a modern force that's far more attuned to today's problems. Why shouldn't BC have its own provincial force like Ontario, Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador?

It's not as if we need lessons in this sort of thing from central Canada any more.

Cops work under private-law Code: Loyalty, Silence and Retaliation. In this case, the killer cop did not enforce valid law. An "Obstruction" charge requires evidence of an intent to defeat justice, whereas Ian Bush complied with the cop's demand for a correct name, after using a joke name. Crown Counsel wouldn't touch that junk charge, and cops cannot register charges in BC (and Quebec and New Brunswick).

In his study of excessive force retaliation at the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department, Judge James Kolts quoted a cop, "'...Anger, not fear, is the number one cause of excessive force. It is a rage at defiance of authority.' This is the worst aspect of police culture, where the worst crim of all is 'CONTEMPT OF COP': the deputy cannot let pass the slightest challenge or failure to immediately comply. It is here that excessive force starts and needs to be stopped."

Killer cop's he-choked-me defence is a joke. Even though I only worked for 2 weeks as a security guard, I took a compulsory Justice Institute course in 2001. We were taught to break choke holds by slipping our arms between those of the chokers, putting ourselves in the position of being able to use the entire strength of the arms against hand grips. We used the same techniques to easily break headlocks.

JI posts refer to that training. Under "Practical Demonstration" a document lists: "Body Releases: (a) (b) wrist grab (single/double) (c) front choke (d) headlock." I don't recall being told to shoot the choker in the back of the head.

Reality dictates: Ian Bush would have wanted to leave custody as soon as possible. The killer cop wanted him in custody as long as possible.

RE: Keeping the RCMP vs. create one's own force.

I think the sticker shock makes Local Gov'ts fiscally "gun shy" to change.

The initial set -up costs to create one's own force would be rather steep.

However, the RCMP , to my understanding use our town as the training ground in Canada for much of the RCMP via our town's multi - cultural diversity,and the RCMP get posted here to absorb it all.

THe multi- cultural diversity is reflected in the RCMP force as well. However , the RCMP here seem to be young, and I can't recall the last time I saw a cop over 30. A lot look fresh out of high school. High francophone component(usually quite arrogant) . Then its a revolving door, as they eventually get posted elsewhere.

I suppose this creates a Canada -wise cop,...but so what ?, every community is unique, and its best to adapt to the local culture.

A locally based police force would allow people to stay here, live here and become rooted in the City...which I agree with is a far better way to go.

With the Justice Institute here to do much of the training, I don't see why not.

I believe that history will reveal that the old provincial police force were so corrupt that they were disbanded and the job contracted out to the RCMP.

The horsemen are just too corrupt with their own self importance and the fiasco in Huston BC exemplifies this.

In BC, if you are a cop, you have a licence to kill. The constable in Huston exercised that licence with full cooperation of the RCMP and the provincial government which is helping with the cover up.

That is the gist of what my parents told me about the demise of the BCPP. I had a book that detailed various cases of police corruption in BC and the BCPP was pretty prominent. The VPD was also featured, with Chief Mulligan ultimately fleeing the jurisdiction to avoid possible prosecution.

RE: Corruption

Good points...I seem to recall past corruption claims as well , especially the VPD way back when.

However, I think it is pretty clear that ANY organization becomes corrupted when the checks and balances are token , reduced , perhaps removed, or when they were never actually there in the first place. Allowing the foxes in the chicken coop to investigate themselves is one major self- serving justice- denying flaw.

It usually gets too political in most organizations, the original mandate gets lost, everyone tows the line, and they circles the wagons if and when the shit hits the fan.

The cops are part of what used to be called the Justice System, now called the Justice Industry. It serves them well re: job opportunity and job security, and also serves them well when their own ass is on the line...unlike the rest of us humble peons .

Grumpy the BC Police were taken over by the RCMP, some 50-55 years ago, history has had more than ample time to prove out your suggestion of corruption, as yet I myself have never heard of any corruption.

You mention corruption, what about the 1997 Apec Summit, there is more than ample proof of the attitude and abuse the RCMP are willing to met out on us, the citizens.
http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/DefaultSite/Reppub/index_e.aspx?CategoryID=73
The sooner we get our own police force back , the safer we will all be.

Our own police force? Yeah right, Provincial cops are going to be different from the RCMP, VPD, Delta? Corruption, brutality and basic disrespect for the law is found in the history of any police force. Larger forces generally have less deviance than smaller forces. Many reasons for this, to call for the resumption of Provincial policing without changes in structure is foolish. To compare our police, even with thier defects to the police in third world countries makes little sense. And really now, most here have never been handcuffed and put in a cell, they don't want crime, are not really concerned until someone who is respectable or semi respectable gets killed and makes them wonder. Of all the police shootings in Canada, only a small percentage are suspicious. These cases need to be investigated, like all police complaints, by a civilian team made up of honest people. Who will then be hated by the public and cops alike. No matter, this will restore a little faith in the system, the system people really, deeply want to have faith in.

Is what I actually posted. You think the RCMP isn't corrupt now? Lets at least bring the control back to BC from Ottawa and create an independent police commission to oversee them.

Well having had encountered many different police forces around the world, I will take the RCMP over all of them, although I did meet what appeared to be the only honest cop in Venezuela came as quite the shock to the locals I was with.

I have found the rank and file pretty decent to deal with and even some of them are exemplary. I don’t think much of their senior management, they are a purely politically animal and the politics within the upper ranks is pretty rampant.

In this case we tried this out with a toy gun in a holster, guy grabs you in a choke hold from behind, you reach down grab the gun stick it behind your head and pull the trigger. We found that it would likely contact the back of the head of a right handed person as placing a choke hold with your right arm will cause your head to pivot to the left.

Likely the rookie did a bunch of things wrong, but I learned a long time ago, don’t get into fights with the cops, why was this guy fighting with the cop? Just plain dumb, had he just gone to sleep in the cell, he would have likely gone away with a hangover and a probation. 2 young guys both making errors in judgment, one is dead and the other will have to question himself for the rest of his life.

As for civilian oversight, make sure those same civilians go for ridealongs on a regular basis, so they aren’t spending to much time in the ivory tower and judging things from a safe distance.

Colin is right - anyone who questions a right-wing cop is obviously a commie just asking for it. Yessirree, we should show them old lefties how Western Civilization deals with anyone who questions authority.

Glad to see we don't have all the killer authoritarians down here in the US.

Colin says

Good story,(theory),it's bullsh!t.

If someone was choking me from behind and I could reach a handgun I would shoot him in the FRONT of the head.

On second thought, if I shot at the front of someone's head and they had their head turned to the side, whilst choking me from behind, I actually could shoot them in the back of the head.

Remember..the Queen's cowboys(RCMP) sold their rights to Disney...where are OUR royalties ???.

Unless the RCMP take their marching orders for the Local Gov't they are effectively subcontracted to provide law enforcement services...they end up like a typical mindless Federal bureaucracy ever straying from their mandate.

If a Local Gov't has its own force, this opens the door for Local input and accountability. In my town we have a revolving door of RCMP personnel..never get rooted and thus never become a quasi- "beat cop" familiar with the City.

FOR EXAMPLE If one area has a grow-opp problem, establish a good working relationship with the citizens in that area...or if its a traffic enforcement issue ...same solution.

The local grassroots can keep everyone honest, including the cops.

I think a lot of the problem is that in past years, cops would be recruited right out of high school....now they need their criminology degree etc... and add to their detachment from reality at the start. ( Personal experience, beleive me...)

Still amuses me the stories of old style cops and how they encouraged problems to "move on" or "adjust attitude ASAP" in 5 minutes or less...now its simply spawns the Justice Industry.

Does anyone remember Fred Quilt? The Chilcotin man died after an incident on a dirt road involving two RCMP officers, one of them off duty and out of uniform.

What followed was a total disgusting cover-up. The first coroner's inquest was so out and out bad even the Vancouver Sun asked questions (gotta be pretty flagrant to get them to do something like that!!). Second one wasn't a whole lot better.

The RCMP is not a "police force", it is like a military force of occupation and its members can get away with just about anything at all.

Grumpy, my dear darlin', your posts give me good smiles, keep up the grumpin. Climber...come on, son, don't swallow every bit of sheepshite you encounter.

Annie, I stand by what I said. The case of Mr. Quilt, I was too young to remember it, but I lived close to Williams Lake then. I have read about it in the book, An Unauthorised History of The RCMP, by the Browns. A pretty sickening event, murder, at the very least manslaughter. I can tell by your comment about me that you haven't looked at my other posts here.

Dee Bee

BC Mary

Would you give us a little on the BC Legislature story. Like what stage it's at and is anything being done, or are they just going to stall off until everyone forgets about it? We should try to keep it out in the open so Gordo and the boys don't get off scot free.

Dee Bee here is the site for BC Mary
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

I have to say that I love the mother's role in this story. She is truly a queen. Clearly the story is a complicated one but police power must always be subject to scrutiny since the possibilities for abuse are so profound.

Clarification needed from author: Which New West Mountie office? New West is policed by New Westminster Police, not RCMP.