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Power Is Young in France
Youth, unions sense opportunity in labour law reversal.
After more than two months of regular demonstrations brought over 3 million people out on the streets in France against the CPE (First Employment Contract), the government finally acted on Monday April 10 to withdraw the legislation. Student groups and trade unions have proclaimed this an "authentic success," while high ranking members of the UMP (Union for a Popular Movement) government, namely Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, have lost credibility and support across the country.
The CPE was, in fact, Section 8 of the Law for Equal Opportunity, which was adopted in parliament in early February of 2006. Although the bulk of this law remains intact, including lowering the minimum working age to 14, the replacement of the much-contested Section 8 was introduced and debated in parliament on Tuesday night, adopted Wednesday and presented to the senate yesterday. The warp speed replacement of the CPE will see the government, among other things, subsidizing businesses that hire young workers on a standard CDI (fixed duration contract) to the tune of up to $550 (Cdn) per month.
Back to reality
On the heels of this victory, youth and workers are still left with employment legislation that encourages precarious labour. After the initial celebratory introduction, the statement issued by the four main student unions and eight trade unions after the withdrawal of the CPE went on to recognize the need to continue to focus energy on reducing precariousness, and in particular, on the repeal of the CNE (New Employment Contract).
The contentious issue with the CPE was that employers that hired youth under 26 were granted a two-year probationary period during which time they would have been allowed to fire or release the young employees without cause. The CNE stipulates exactly the same probation period, except that it applies to workers of all ages who are hired by businesses with less than 20 employees (which make up 96 percent of all French businesses).
The CNE became law in August 2005, and was met with weak resistance from trade unions. The International Monetary Fund released a paper in October of 2005 noting the CNE "takes an important step toward reforming the employment protection legislation in France." Since August 2005, an estimated 400,000 workers have signed a CNE contract.
Organising workers across a broad range of sectors against the CNE is the next challenge for French trade unions. Those unions are hoping the student and youth movement will maintain its solidarity in demonstrating against the relaxation of labour laws.
Clampdown message
The revolts by youth from France's banlieues (low-income neighbourhoods on the margins of cities) in October and November of 2005, and the resulting imposition of a three-month long state of emergency, is important in trying to understand what lies ahead for youth on the heels of the anti-CPE victory. The mainstream media in France and internationally often tagged those responsible for violence following peaceful anti-CPE marches as being youth from the banlieues.
Joëlle Bardot, a Parisian social worker, explained in an interview with The Tyee that while the possibility of a split among youth exists "this division is absolutely necessary in order for [Interior Minister Nicholas] Sarkozy to carry out his security policies." Sarkozy is the populist leader of the right wing UMP party, who came under fire for his inciting and racist language during the 2005 revolts.
During the youth revolts of 2005, over 2,500 people were arrested, 600 of whom were under the age of 16, and as of March 24, 1,420 people had been arrested during and following anti-CPE demonstrations. These strong clampdowns illustrate the importance of police forces in the state's communication strategy. There are plans in the works to build 11 new juvenile prisons in France, creating 500 new and permanent places for young offenders.
Sarkozy is currently preparing to introduce his Bill on the Prevention of Delinquency, which critics say will serve to further criminalize youth. Youth leaders face the challenge of continuing to organize in the coming months in order to attempt to bridge the potential or perceived gaps between them and to stand together against Sarkozy's new bill.
With presidential elections coming up in 2007, and Sarkozy standing out in the French mainstream media as the strongest candidate, youth have an opportunity to articulate a new vision for France, and to continue to participate in and influence the political life of the country. The strength of youth leaders and students working together with unions has been demonstrated by the success of the actions that have rocked the French establishment over the last two months.
What remains to be seen is if youth leaders, students and unions will build on that success by continuing to organise together around labour and delinquency laws. If they do, their coalition could prove a decisive factor in shaping the future of France, and in preparing the terrain for a change in government next year.
Dawn Paley is a Canadian journalist based in Berlin. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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skeptikool
6 years ago
Comments on "Power Is Young in France"
I have encountered much bias against the French during my travels across Canada. This bias, I believe, to often have been exploited by Ottawa in its attempts to maintain power.
I have great admiration for the feistiness often shown by the French. With so many issues,
Canadians have shown themselves to be a wimpish lot.
Realist
6 years ago
More and more our youth seem to be leading the way for a future devoid of the neoliberal greed. Perhaps they can protect themselves from the seemingly envitable onslaught of corporate greed and financial enslavement. This seem fitting as it is they who will be affected the most by the neocons of this world. good luck to you and godspeed.A reduction to the age of fourteen for the ability to work is typical of the dickens like morality of the wealthy.No wonder they fear the teachers as it is they who show our youth just what criminal and immoral behaviours are being inflicted upon them. I suggest that when the youth rip up nafta they use KKK's line of "someone else made that promise to you not us", this also seems fitting.
Former BC Boy
6 years ago
I agree with you 100% Skeptikool!
I have seen some other posters (to this website) engage in French-bashing.
It is so pathetic and 19th century!
Furthermore, I agree that far too many North Americans sit on the couch (no, not the fence...that involves getting off your arse!).
Yes, there are many people trying to forge a better world in North America but far too many say they don't support the war in Iraq (for example), but they do nothing!
Lack of Action = Status Quo
(ie - Nothing Changes as things continue on their current trajectory)
I guess if every North American (except for the Native Peoples) realized they were an immigrant or decendent of one they would feel outraged!
Vive la France!
Kevan Hudson
Suncheon, South Korea
Coyote
6 years ago
Which puts the finger on the fundamental problem of the current period in BC and Canada as a whole; the near complete disengagement from especially radical and/or street politics of our own young and scarcely less, save in its own much more narrowly defined interest, the organized so-called "Labour Movement". Both are much more merely "individualistically self-obsessed" I would describe it, though quite a mouthful :-), and especially the "Labour Movement" is in such a state of decline and diminishment of its former power and structural strength that I have doubts it is capable of anywhere coming close to that in France, short of a major upheaval within it and turfing of much of its leadership.
It is what, the state of the student movement and the trade union movement, is most depressing about the current period in this country. Or as skeptikool says, there is such a generalized state of "wimpishness" in the country. And everyone who might want to turn that around and breathe new and militant life into these essential social structures of the nation again, is overwhelmeed by the seeming immensity of where to start.
And that is not to say it cannot be done, because of course it can. But merely that because of the seeming advanced state of the decline of these institutions, it is much a matter it seems of having to start from the beginning again. (I know that most labour functions and meetings I attend are such a bore, and in such an advanced state of atrophy that I can barely stand to attend them anymore. The dull listlessness of their vision and committment to mundane routine is overwhelming.)
And that is not to depress everyone, but to appreciate the immensity of the task and the scale of the turn-around that is going to have to be carried out.
The combination of the induced lethargy and "individualist" centred preoccupation with "consumerism" and self-interest that has carried over from the Prosperity Time, combined with the assaults of the extreme neocon right of the period since the late 70s, and the degree to which this has overwhelmed and intimidated the mass of working class citizenry is really quite staggering-, for such out there as me who witnessed all the periods of collapse from robust militancy to pussycat timidity and decline. (And in the mix of course, is the role of the postwar "business unionism" model of trade union leadership, which succeeded in driving out and disempowering all the radicals, and eunuchizing the trade union movement in the process. Most of them still talk the talk, but in my view, remain to be rooted out of their "labour bureaucrat careers". They and their lack of imagination being the main obstacles still, to a revitalized trade union movement.)
In any case, the events in France do instill some new hope in me that it can eventually be done, even here. Vive la France! The militancy of their students and their working class has my respect.
G West
6 years ago
In France, to a large degree because of the influence of young people, the population has begun to come to grips with the notion that financial, commercial and administrative forces are determined to implement their dehumanizing global agenda whether the actual citizens agree or not. In this clash, youth and progressive forces have managed to push back the right-wing agenda for at least a moment.
Rather than scoffing at the naïveté of our Gallic cousins, we should be cheering their success and contemplating ways we can best adopt their tactics ourselves in the upcoming battle for civilization in this country. The French, far from being the butt of our jokes, have almost always taken the lead in that quest; whether in the Enlightenment, the French Revolution or in 1968/69.
These are the initial battles in another war about the ways in which political power and society work together; the recently defeated labour law was just the first skirmish. One can only hope that the powers of the state will not defeat the essential social solidarity of French culture and the French people and that France will continue to be a beacon to the world of human beings and an immoveable obstacle along the road toward homogenized corporatism.
mabellbc
6 years ago
The French are losers and reading this makes me very happy that I am not French.
France is going down - the culture of entitlement that exists in France is very worrysome. The fundamental difference between labour laws in France and America is that in France, people believe that it is the employers right to employ wheras in America it is the employees right to work.
We in Canada are somewhere in the middle - but thankfully we have a progressive society pushing us towards the latter.
You socialists praise the French, but watch them lag behind in this global economy. Of course, you socialists don't care about growth or opportunity. You would rather see everybody the same, in poverty.
G West
6 years ago
I told you I'd post this every time you showed up here maybelle:
Nobody cares!
mabellbc
6 years ago
Laughing Aloud:
G West - I though I waste enough time, but you clearly take the cake!
As far as my comment above, I wrote that to get a few comments out of you all. I am actually opposed to gaming. However, I have invested (rather heavily) into gaming stocks, because if I don't make the money - somebody else will.
You are fighting a losing battle (if you call fighting - hanging around the Tyee and conversing with like-minded people). If you want to change the world, get off of the Tyee and start convincing people that this socialistic society is better for Canadians.
Canadians want opportunity and wealth - whether it fits into your ideological mold or not. We want good and interesting jobs, we want material things and we want to have a good time in life.
We are squeezing you Socialists out, and the only thing saving you are the lazy unions and the equally lazy poor. The rest of the province is on-side with this movement.
There are far too many people out there to help, but we can't when we are constantly dealing with labour distruptions and overpaid government workers. Our tax dollars are going to government workers and system abusers and not to the single mothers and insane people that need our help.
You are the last of a dying breed.
chevy
6 years ago
Mabel, you shouldn't lop the rest of us
organized labour into some of the few lazier
ones. I've been a union man since I could
legally work. I am not lazy, sometimes I work through my breaks. This doesn't make
me a fanatic. I work hard because I care for
the people I work for which happen to be the
taxpayer. Why? Because I'm a taxpayer too.
Sure, there are some slack times but when it
gets crazy, I'm the first one in the fire.
But I'm not a socialist either. Your argument
of overpaid government workers is really
old. It is a matter of fact, check out the
recently signed master agreements with the
provincial employees. After the latest round
of cutbacks, a lot of skilled workers left. Now the province can't even find its own skilled workers to manage and run its own facilities due to the way they were treated.
As for the French. Good for them in standing
up but it is true, there is a huge culture of
entitlement, especially among workers. French
manufacturing will soon disappear. A lot of
the luxuries that the French crave and are currently produced domestically, are leaving.
Its happening already. Why is this happening?
Poor management, poor worker development and
too many managers and CEOs thinking they know
best. Now they're in a bind. But its not. The students and unions have dug in their heels and the government and business class are digging in themselves. This is a grand
reflection of the trench warfare which took
place on French soil during WWI. Nobody wins
until some other authority gives in. In final, I apologize for this statement but the
French deserve this more than anyone. Next
time, they can keep their noses out of everyone's public affairs, like Quebec and Canada's. Everytime a French politician comes to Canada, they come to incite Quebec which in turn starts some referendum or leadership convention or talk of sovereignty. Now the French of big problems of their own. Good. Its about time they grow up and realize that French wine and cheese alone can't solve this problem this time.
G West
6 years ago
maybelle, this, from your own words, says it all:
Nobody cares what you say you moron.
G West
6 years ago
maybelle,
The only person you care about is yourself, you phony.
You couldn't care less about anyone else - it just means less money for booze and the tables at Vegas - you're the dinosaur and you'll soon be extinct.
Go throw a few coins to the people at a soup kitchen, Ralph Klein style!
Your ersatz humanitarian crap doesn't fool anyone any more than your lies about knowing anything about economics. Go kick the cat, you'll get more out of it.
Realist
6 years ago
Please don't pick on poor mabellbc. He or she has never had to experience "real life" as his/her luck has held and her financial situation has not yet been reduced to the point of her "learning phase" of life. We are here to try an educate those who don't have a clue what life without their mostly unimportant but seemingly precious money is really about. When she writes her confused but unfortunatly heartfelt responses to issues, she exposes her soft underbelly of ignorance and we the enlighten human beings have the opportunity to attack her ignorance and educate her in what it means to really live and feel as humans were ment to do! please don't take the insults to heart mabellbc as by just being here you show that you can be taught and thus there is hope for your soul! I actually doubt that you really beleive the stuff you write as very few humans who are literate, as you seem to be,are so self consumed with their own wellbeing that they are willing to cast the rest of society off to sea. The intelligence seems to be there, but we must now work on your ability to be a human being as well as an intellect!
Alcibiades
6 years ago
she has a soul?
BC Mary
6 years ago
I love it. Call me a socialist anytime you like, anyday.
Easter is an especially good time for that, actually, as I understand Jesus made no investments, amassed no gambling riches, nor did he get shit-faced. Strange stuff, the way his followers reject all that.
But the ones who believe in seeking the greatest good for the greatest number? They're called socialists, and the Christians think that's a bad thing to be called. You socialists. Like their hero: socialists.
You socialists! An honour not heard often enough.
IAMC
6 years ago
France won't be able to sustain their socialost
economy. I agree that before too long the country will need foreign aid, but of course that won't deter supporters of poverty for all.
As long as we are all equally poor.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
bc mary
amen, if that's not an anachronism!
'till power is brought to pooling'
Happy easter to you too.
Skip Tracer
6 years ago
Its entirely predictable that the Canadian left is quick to romanticize the French fighting spirit. Revolutions are best fired on testerone (how many news pieces on the protests featured a nice piece of crumpet manning the barricades? I'll tell you: virtually ALL, Tyee included) and Canadians, despite enoromous privelege and opportunity to act, are limp by comparison.
Last night I went to a concert with many 20 somethings around. Half of them were too distracted by electronic gadgets to show their fellow audience members any respect. I tried to imagine them protesting anything other than the loss of their text messaging service...and failed.
mabellbc
6 years ago
Okay - don't give me a hard time about wanting to have a few drinks, and a good time! I like to enjoy life, I like to go out and spend time with the family.
I like Vegas and I love the feeling of being there!
I suppose that many of you are right. I care about money and wealth, and myself for that matter. I don't like the social system, because it is inefficient and there are too many abusers.
I believe in free enterprise, opportunity and reward. I also believe that this society results in the greater good for all. This is not the objective of captalism, it is the by-product.
There will always be some people left behind. It is ashame, and we should help. However, this notion of equality and re-distribution of wealth is not good for anybody. It curbs initiative and as a result, job creation and tax revenue.
After UBC, I spent the first 10 years of my working life jumping from job to job. My only objective was maximizing my income, but I don't understand why this makes me sleeze, or a bad guy.
I have never personally insulted anybody, but Frank!
G West - I have seen you take the "morale highground" on a number of occassions - a little bit of a hypocrite aren't we?
Finally, I am tired of being confused as a woman. I am going to log in as a new user, so that this no longer occurs. I will identify myself.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
morale highground
not much of a speller either, it seems
Capitalism
6 years ago
My mistake - you can probably tell by know that I am no english major. I was schooled in finance - a numbers guy if you will.
G West
6 years ago
If you think logging back in as someone else is going to change the way I and others feel about your attitude you're dead wrong.
change that and I'll stop posting the reminders of what you really believe...in your own words.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
so maybelle/Capitalism - did you get a minor in finance along with the imaginary minor in economics?
How does it feel to have a dual identity? And neither of them possessed of any sense.
Perhaps I should let Frank know what your new identity is.
Capitalism
6 years ago
Alcibaides - you'd actually be surprised at the amount of education I have.
I don't want to get into it with you all.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
I doubt I'd be surprised - you hide it so well.
Coyote
6 years ago
LOL. Of course, you fuk, socialists and the poor love poverty. What a mindless dipshit you and your braunshirt friends here are.
Which is about the extent I will involve myself which such a petty minded bourgeois sociopath. Let them mangez la merde.
BC Mary
6 years ago
Pick me up, brush me off, I'm laughing so hard. So capitalism says that if we aren't scared witless for our survival, we'd all be lying on the beach gazing into the distance, dreaming. Our brains would shrivel. We'd forget to procreate. And don't you see -- the world would come to an end!!
Holy cats, I've never had a day off that didn't produce a dozen useful ideas.
Oh. Is that the problem?
Capitalism
6 years ago
BC Mary:
I have a minor in economics which tells me that I know more about the economy than you!! JK!
Skip Tracer
6 years ago
Translation: I see no need to find the bridge between meaningful communication and finance.
Well this is the norm anyway. We shouldn't be surprised. Its why civilization is in such a mess. We encourage highly specialized idiocy.
Percy
6 years ago
As far as I know, just about everybody in Canada has to do a probationary period in any job. So...what's the big deal? Why all the rhetoric? Should we be burning cars too? Isn't this all a little bit OVERBLOWN?
gardensnake
6 years ago
Anyone who thinks government workers are overpaid has a great need for some remedial numeracy courses.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
Percy
do a little research - follow some of the links - dig a little deeper - there's another french site on Tyee too - read on - in short - NO!
Right to Bear
6 years ago
G West said:
"Go throw a few coins to the people at a soup kitchen, Ralph Klein style"!
Thanks G West... Sorry to interupt, but I love to hear the truth...ha. You go man...!
RTB
Coyote
6 years ago
Ain't it the bloody truth, Skip Tracer. Of which we have such as Mabel as the evidence.
Right to Bear
6 years ago
Mabell\Capitalism...hummm. You got me wondering if your NOT Ralph Klein in drag...?
Just a thought...RTB
lynn
6 years ago
mabellbc operates out of fear...it's a neo-con thing...at base a kind of insecurity....
He's a classic Wannabee...and his grand poohbah "Money"...has become the symbol of all he hopes will fill the hole...
in the middle of his empty golden decade soul.
Such a thin veneer... all Vegas and flash... and chips easily.
Someone should have told him a long time ago that its quite okay to just be yourself...avec l'argent...sans l'argent...( the French is just to further annoy you, mabellbc) ;-)... instead, it seems you must endure a lifetime of wasted Wannabeeism. Ohhhh noooooo......
Wannabeeism that ever hungers for the superficial glitz of Amerika and is oh-so-easily fooled by the kind of power that is based on sheer weakness of character alone. Canada, it appears has sadly become the home of a long line of these Amerikan wannabees...willing to sell their soul...and their country down the road..in order to just lick the taste of the holy grime... the holy crime... from their Amerikan hero's hallowed boots...
Or as now seems to be the case from their Amerikan hero's high heels... as revealed in the pathetic one-sided display of ardour between Princess Condaleeza and Mackay the Constant Groveller.
One of my favourite comments on the self-delusions that abound in "Wannabeeism" was made by Coyote... quite some time ago... when one of the followers of this wretched cult boasted here:
And Coyote replied:
Alcibiades
6 years ago
lynn
Glad to see your post about Peter's virtual curtsey at the feet of his new best girl condi. I was beginning to think the only mention of it would be G West and Thomas's exchange yesterday on the 'Those Feisty French Leftists' site. I should have known you wouldn’t have missed his pathetic performance.
Have a happy Easter. ;-)
Coyote
6 years ago
Just occurs to me: You don't think maybe Mabel and Nightbloom are one and the same? (That same bourgeois preppiness. Along with a certain... How shall I say? ...fem quality?)
Hmmmmm.
Skip Tracer
6 years ago
My dears, that was an all out toe sucking. Pete should now be nicknamed "Shrimper" Mackay. At least it will be a step up from "backstabber and uber hypocrite".
Coyote
6 years ago
Goddamn, Lynn. You the woman.
On the other hand, I've said so many damned oneliners, I don't know if I can take credit for the Big Mac remark or not. But it seems to me that somebody else fired of that fine remark. ????? It sounds mostly like something I could only wish I'd said. 8+D
Pardon me, I'm having a senior's moment here. :-)
lynn
6 years ago
No, Coyote. You the man. ;-)
You not only said that fine remark but it earned "a highly honoured place" on our fridge (right besides a yellowed quote from Richard Feynman... can't get better company than that) :-)...and it made many a friend of ours chuckle...
It's from an old Tyee article on Campbell and NDP finance...a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....:-)
Fiat lux
6 years ago
The funny thing is that I've many times heard the line of: ".....we're taking over the world and nothing can stop us now", and " I support this system because I worked hard and it was good to me...." " the future is ours", from nazis, communists and now from neocon capitalists.
Makes a lot of sense and gives a good picture of the mentality of the faithful, regardless of the screwball, criminal theories they support.
What the poor fools don't realize is that all systems built on competition, colonization and
enslavement will sooner, or later run out of steam, burn out and self destruct. There is no other way out.
Ed Deak. Big Lake.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
Perhaps we're being too hard on "Shrimper" Mackay. Mayhap he hasn't been that close to a powerful woman since Belinda left him at the party.
nightbloom 'has' been making himself scarce of late hasn't he?
IAMC
6 years ago
To believe Ed Deak, Big Dick, you would need a box cutter to slit your wrists. What BS.
What is the way out Ed?
What is a neocon capitalist ? Is it the same as a neo-lib pessimist ?
No, it's more hopeless.
What an inspiration you are.
We will make out just fine by applying free market and compassion over your dark vies of life.
I don't appreciate your view, it's twisted irrational pessimism, konda like David Suzukiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.
Fiat lux
6 years ago
Thanks for you input IAMC. It shows the mental level you and your sector works on.
It would be interesting to find out how "free market and compassion" can work together?
Somehow, the word "free..." must always come up in the propaganda blurbs of all collectivizing monster theories. Unfortunately, for humanity it always means another rope around the necks.
The next we'll hear is that Chapter 11 of NAFTA is a major supporter of the democratic decision making powers of citizens.
Ask the 70% Mexicans put under poverty levels by NAFTA, the millions of farmers and former business owners now living in carboard shacks on the dumps of Mexico City, or the 900,000 Canadians in the foodbank lines that grow every day, or the 25,000 Ford workers and 30,000 at GM now losing their jobs.
Ed Deak.
rockyvoids
6 years ago
I skip over IAMC, hateful Canerican drivel.
"Capitalism"
I have twelve Grandkids, working steel-toe since '59 and debt free. This tells me I know more about economics than you do.
I 'specially enjoy Fiat lux and other realist posters. Lynn's postings are 'specially dear.
BC Mary
6 years ago
Alcibaides - you'd actually be surprised at the amount of education I have.
I don't want to get into it with you all.
and then:
I have a minor in economics which tells me that I know more about the economy than you!! JK! - concludes capitalism
Ed Deak, please note!
Fiat lux
6 years ago
I don't claim to know more than anybody, but still have the 1991 copyright of the only unbreakable and scientifically correct definition of economic efficiency.
Unfortunately, as economists on many worldwide economic forums and debates I have taken part in, have pointed it out, if the correct definition of economic efficiency were used, the "free trade" scam and the stock and money markets would collapse.
So now, under the present fraudulent system, the banks in certain chosen countries are permitted to "create" unlimited amounts of imaginary capital from the thin air to empower a certain multinational corporate mafia to take over the resources of any other country, to deprive the rightful owners of the benefits. And kill them if necessary.
This is acceptable with the present definition of so called "economic efficiency", as it "creates" the biggest profits for the least inputs of imaginary capital.
Of course, the politicians enforcing this crime wave are being voted in time after time in our countries, even if they kill innocent children by the millions.
But then, the public may just wake up one day and there's always hope for miracles.
Ed Deak, Big Lake.
Coyote
6 years ago
Ed Deak. Big Lake."
And hopefully it will happen before they burn out the planet-, which the "competitive system" is rip, raping and ruining its way through and covering with pavement like it can do so forever. Like Ed say, your end is out there in time and space like every other competitive and exploitive system in history-, and eventually folks will figure out how to do it, and move on.
All you neocons are busily making dire predictions about France, but really you might want to be paying closer attention to the dark clouds of looming fate gathering over your much beloved US Empire. Even its own military Generals, as fast as they can retire and speak freely, are trying to warn y'all of the defeat that is rising up out of the dessert sands of the Middle East for The Empire.
Even if you can't see all the red flags fluttering with their warnings about the disaster taking shape for The US Empire economy.
And what is gathering here, more likely than not, is an evolving "disaster event", post defeat in Iraq and throughout the Middle East, that will have an impact on Amerikan power prospects in the world such as will make its Vietnam defeat fade into near insignificance. The potential for a precipitous collapse of US power everywhere is looming larger here than it has at anytime in its history. (Even Israel is displaying increased nervousness, with its "fence" and in its internal politics, about its own future survival prospects without Amerika covering its back.)
So, for all your worries about Frenchie, you might want to be paying closer attention to the dire consequences looming for your current US Empire love object and wannabe interest.
Indeed, given the degree of our own self-induced and tolerated dependancy upon them, we, our economy or our troops in Afghanistan are unlikely to escape all negative consequences of an US Empire collapse ourselves.
The Gallic citizenry, on the other hand, save for their ruling class who have exposed a wish to join the global neocon "corporatist" revolution, long ago learned the importance of keeping that class on a short leash, such as can quickly bring them up short whenever need be. It is afterall, the birthplace in fact of the modern ideas of "liberte and egalite".
But which is not to "over-idealize" France either. :-)
thomas49
6 years ago
Yes and that is why they take it to the streets when they are irked by goverment arrogance and mismanagement.
Where as Canadians only take it to the streets if their hockey teams lose...and if they get hit by a rubber bullet ! WELL , LOOK OUT...here come the lawyers...and there is Ted Hughes looking for a report to write ,to gloss things over and nothing changes,as usual,because...well we are Canadians!
i feel the bile rising and the cynisism burning .Must be from the steady diet of pap in our daily lives .
Fiat lux
6 years ago
thomas...
I spent 3 years in Austria after WW2 and all I could hear how great Hitler was and what good times they had before the war.
Of course, the government and party line was condemning Hitler, but the "people" loved him. In spite of the horrible losses and damage. Figure it out.
Ed Deak.
IAMC
6 years ago
You know there are around 5-6 thousand active or retired Generals in the US. Thirteen have come out against Rumsfeld. Hardly a ground swell.
In fact military leadership is generally unhappy with their political leaders.
No story here. The real story is how the MSM doesn't lead every nightly newscast or daily papers with an American body count from Iraq each day. Why is that ? Is it because the tides have turned in Iraq? I think so.
G West
6 years ago
IAMC
And most of the retired generals are employed (if they're still out of wheelchairs) by government or the military industrial complex - they're just a little compromised. What's incredible is that there are so many speaking out. I take it you haven't read Colin Powell latest confessions?
lynn
6 years ago
Right on rockyvoids....and no doubt you do....probably a lot more... thanks for the kind words as well. :-).
It just suits Maybelle Capitalism's delusions to paint a picture of the left based on his own prejudices and fears. He still doesn't get it that most who post here have worked hard all their lives, have read a thing or two, managed their money well and live a pretty comfortable life... and certainly understand economics better than those foolish neo-cons who have sold our provincial family store and all our treasured resources from the store shelves for the illusory glint of mere fool's gold....sold these gems right into the waiting hands of their drooling so-called foreign friends...making their oh-so-wily friends rich.... and the good citizens of this province poorer by the day.
That's what the Campbell crew call good business practices...silly fools that they are...they should walk the plank for treason...and take their Business for Dummies much dog-eared manuals along for their short jaunt off the plank... preferably in high seas.
No, we believe in the good life, Maybelle Capitalism, we just believe that the privilege be extended to all...through a strong social infrastructure...that is based not only on compassion but on the intelligence and foresight to see that a strong social infrastructure makes the world we live in less dangerous...and more free, and ultimately much less expensive to maintain in the long run.
The silly neo-cons blinded by their own greed much prefer to make endless cuts to our social services ...and to workers wages and rights.... creating beleaguered war zones in our cities... and isolating our rural towns into wastelands. Somehow that makes sense to them...
thomas49
6 years ago
Both of my parents told me they and their peers never had a clue as to what Hitler was doing.Like any of the machinations of powermongers and politicians things are always in the dark of the night,the backrooms of doom and destruction.And it doesn't matter where you are when the sh!t hits the fan.
Those were the days when THE MEDIA was just being diddled silly by Goering and old uncle Adolf looked like a PROPHET while he orated the world into blackness.Those days people were as moved by empty rhetoric as many are today,WE ARE A DUMB LOT,if you really want to get down to it.
We need look no further than what Kampbell's Klan is doing.The same type of people,IDEOLOGUES,bent on a FASCIST society,where BIG BUSINESS is paramount and life is EXPENDABLE.
IT IS NOT ON THE SAME GRAND SCALE AS HITLER,BUT THE FRAMEWORK IS THERE,ALL WE HAVE TO DO...IS LET THEM FEED THE FIRE .
now that's why i admire the French so much,they may not be the best fighters in the world,but they sure know how to piss on a fire.
IAMC
6 years ago
Lynn
Iam not sure where you are posting from, maybe France ? But your bleak outlook is not what we are experiencing in British Columbia in Canada.
Things are going very well here, in the cities and rural towns, extremely well.
Stat's Can reports that unemployment has reached a 30 year low in BC @ 4.4%. That's virtual full employment. Wages are up as well.
Perhaps if you are posting from a foreign country somewhere I can understand your pessimism, but if you live here, you must be nut's.
G West
6 years ago
IAMC
Pretty plain what your label stands for:
I AM CLUELESS
IAMC
6 years ago
G West
Are you having a problem where you live ? Are all your friends and acquaintances starving to death, unemployed, living in shanty shacks without electricity or running water ? Do you live in Swazi ?
I doubt it. You are simply unable to face reality. By the way the latest Decima poll dropped support for the NDP from 19% to 14%.
I guess Canadians are really buying your clueless views, right ?
Coyote
6 years ago
Which BC and which Canada are you living in, wingnut IAMC? Certainly not the xame one as I.
And I don't too much give a shitt what the stats say, it is how the people are actually living, working and the incomes they make that tell me far more than the figures and figuring of liars. You can be working in todays society, and still be much living in poverty. And many parts of our cities are war zones.
And I know what is going on in small town BC, so don't try to shitt me. Too few good paying jobs that actually support families and allow one to participate in capitalism's overblown consumer Mecca, and declining access to all the medical and other social services, and much shipment of the sick and elderly to places far from their homes and kin.
You keep insisting on regurgitating the braunshirt party line here doofus, where it rings hollowest and the least nourishing of all, in terms of paying those precious dividens for you. Try it on your own wingnut sites, where you may actually find some "true believers" and those prepared to feast upon your regurgitations.
Here, where we know better, have raised families and worked our lives, bought homes and built communities, and fought capitalism where and as need be and the opportunities arose, and secured "good union incomes and conditions" and lives free of debt, despite the machinations of "The System" and its attempts to keep us down, this is just so much pablum for such child mentalities as yours. Your drivel is to no effect. We know that you know no better, and are yet to learn how capitalism really, really works, and what its real class realities are. We know, wingfuk.
G West
6 years ago
No I AM Clueless, but I recognize that there's a world beyond my front door and I've traveled there - unlike you. I understand the real nature of the economic and moral mess we've created. Most Canadians, unfortunately, may be as clueless as you are. As for my politics, I don't have any - but I'm not afraid of the truth or reality - which you evidently are.
Read that Jose Saramago book, it might wake you up!
You'll understand which one I'm talking about if you can find the computer catalogue at the library. When you’ve done that check out another title: Candide. There’s a lesson for blind optimists like you in it as well – and it’s very short.
Coyote
6 years ago
I Am Clueless, love it GWest. Another one I wish I'd thought of. Don't do that again, eh? *-D LOL.
Take a long walk off a short pier, eh I Am Clueless.
Had to use it GWest, just to see how it tripped off the tongue. It works.
thomas49
6 years ago
IAMC ,your little outbursts really are a gas...that's right ! like a little fart sneaking out when you least expect it and it turns out to really stink,you know SBD.
While i know you think your posts are intelligent ,others need only sit back and laugh.The economy IAMC runs in CYCLES any HALF WIT knows that sunshine and when it is an upturn and you just happen to attain power,well,you can do ANYTHING,add a war and you got PEEWEE RAMBO creaming in his shorts.
Don't believe me,takes Ralph Klein and put that moron in a province that doesn't have BILLION DOLLAR OIL REVENUES,see how he does.
and make sure the ECONOMY IS IN A DOWNTURN.
then again with WAR and the DEFENCE CONTRACTS being thrown around any PUTZ could run Canada or ANY OF THE PROVINCES...even the east coast they are even doing fairly well there i hear,of course they are all joining the military,which from my days is nothing new.
So jump in any time,you are a real gas !
G West
6 years ago
Yo, Coyote, ;-D
Happy Easter bro.
You're way ahead of me, just trying to pick up some of the garbage along the side of the road -
Cheers
G West
6 years ago
You too, thomas49.. best for the weekend - take it easy on the tequila - may need you for the late shift if there are a lot of f*rts in the tent.
lynn
6 years ago
IAMC?....Inspector Clouseau? Thanks G West. ;-)
Mon Dieu!... I AM posting from a foreign country... been living in one since... ohhhh....round about 2001 it seems.
That's what Ed Deak and thomas49 are trying to tell you, IAMC...people fail to recognize the country they are living in until it is too late...or until they feel the brutal force of the prevailing winds finally whip against their own face:
Stupidity, outrage, vanity, cruelty, iniquity, bad faith, falsehood / we fail to see the whole array when it is facing in the same direction as we.†Jean Rostand.
thomas49
6 years ago
G West , yo,having a mexican holiday out in the backyard ,refried beans,fahitas,tacos,all washed down with the usual favourite bevvies.
as usual getting the evil eyes from the neighbours,i guess we just have too much fun around the BBQ.
so ,we the great unwashed are all gonna aim our butts towards Victoria tonight and give them the FULL MOON in HIGH DEFINITION and iffin sum gas escapes at the same time...
we're going to blame it on IAMC !
have a good easter
G West
6 years ago
Best to you too lynn, as always - I'm outta here - for a while - keep the fires stoked.
They [the poor] have to labour in the face of the majestic equality of the law, which forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. Anatole France
IAMC
6 years ago
Despite the attacks on me be the far left wackos on this site, I still think you are all living life with blinders on.
Trying to make out our Province and Country as some sort of economic basket case is your only message, and it's false. It's propaganda and I am not buying it. And by the look of public opinion, very few are, but go ahead and pat each other on the back. Dweebsville is some special town in BC, where everything is a facsict, capitalist plot to screw you.
Boy are you all paranoid.
G West
6 years ago
And btc, I know you're out there in the tall grass whistling a Dylan tune, best, brother. Keep that tale swinging.
lynn
6 years ago
To you, too...G West.
I have a feeling since your brilliant unmasking of I am Clueless...that he, too, will shortly be changing his name. ;-)
Now, I'm off to crash thomas49's backyard Mexican bash....
A great week-end to all...
doggone
6 years ago
Group Hug time.
As I skip through the comments it seems to me that a lot of anger is being manifested here. Are we or are we not the most priviledged few on the planet? Lots of people I have met around the globe don't even know thetyee exists let alone imagine themselves making "talking noises with their eating holes" especially not when most of what is posted is concerned with whether or not the previous poster is left/right/M/F/qualified/brainless.
Keep it together and on topic or forget it
Alcibiades
6 years ago
doggone it, when they've spent the amount of time and mental effort some of the folks around here have at keeping up the side and fending off the trolls they're entitled to a little levity now and then - lighten up and have a good weekend - privilege, like poverty, is relative….the anger, like the medium is virtual.
Frank
6 years ago
Until a couple of months ago the righties kept telling us Canada had gone down the toilet and was no longer relevant. Harper gets elected and suddenly we're in the greatest economic upswing in history.
nightbloom
6 years ago
It seems to me the defining difference between the mobilized French youth and the somnolent North American youth is that for young people here in N.A. their 'progressivism' (under whatever brand of the month they describe it: socialism, anti-imperialism, eco-feminism, yada-yada) is little more than a *fashion statement*, not a commitment. They sift & select their opinions in the same way they shop for shoes and designer labels. There's no resonance.
The continental French exasperate me (I am a Germanophile, although I am half French). But at least they don't apologize for their opinions, like guilty angst-riden products of Anglo-Saxon colonization. And the French are able to give their opinions full-throated voice (sometimes obnoxiously so, especially when they know they're wrong). When have Canadian youth ever rocked their 'establishment'?
I observed an 'anti-Canadian-imperialism' protest at a major Canadian university on the West Coast recently. You know what the kids did for their protest? They rolled over and played dead on the pavement. Clearly, actions speak louder than words.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
nightbloom
welcome back
You'll be happy to know The Times says that Germany is no longer the sick man of Europe - maybe you should rise above your national origins and give those Canadian students a little leadership. They could certainly use it. Perhaps it's time you got involved yourself. Technique only counts for so much; passion has its uses - properly channeled.
Skip Tracer
6 years ago
Then you'll know how stupid and pointless many demonstrations in Berlin have been, fired more by boredom and need for theatre than anything else.
(Routine car burning in Prenzlauerberg on Mayday etc.)
Alcibiades
6 years ago
I think I'd call it "ritual" car burning!
Fiat lux
6 years ago
Some of us can still remember when SFU was a hotbed of progressives.
What happened? Harebrained economics professors, like Herb Grubel "Emeritus" ? Nuts like him should be shovelig horseshit in the racing stables.
Ed Deak.
G West
6 years ago
No question!
Capitalism
6 years ago
I think IAMC stands for I AM Correct. He seems to be the only sensible poster here.
These left-wing nutbars live in an interesting place, where they actually think things aren't good.
I am surprised that I am being accused of fear-mongering when I see these same posters using words like warzone, Kambell, Nazi and constantly talking about Bush and the Amerikkans.
G West
6 years ago
Maybelle, welcome back. Not surprised you'd find him/her an ally. You sure know how to pick your friends. How's the headache?
lynn
6 years ago
?
The Canadian establishment at least once largely loved their own country and wanted the best for it...up until about twenty years or so ago, that is...but Canadian youth and students did rock back then...even led the world in some regards...
With today and hardly a whimper over rumours of a nuclear attack on Iran...there were some massive protests in 1969 against nuclear testing in the Aleutian Islands...that were as much against Nixon and american imperialism as over concerns about the destruction of the environment, the setting off of tidal waves etc. These protests even closed down the border for awhile and later formed into Greenpeace...and it's sailing in 1971 right into the test site of Amchitka in the Aleutian Islands.
I was just a teen-ager then but oh what a change in our human rights surrounding our border now. That's what so-called free trade has done to our borders..never have they been less free...and less about terrorism despite the spin...and more about protecting global business interests...
..same as SFU... Ed's right...once upon a time it had the lively vigorous soul of a university based on the arts...but once again, that deadly brew was mixed... double, double toil and trouble/ fire burn and cauldron of Business was allowed to bubble...and bubble over all else...ad infinitum...
yikes...it's starting to rain...gotta get the clothes off the line...
G West
6 years ago
According to this, from the Sunday Telegraph, there is trouble brewing in Great Britain from the ultra right wing - the BNP is again on the rise:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=EN4KZWK0VU2EZQFIQMGCFGGAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/04/16/nbnp16.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/16/ixnewstop.html
Coyote
6 years ago
Damn, I remember all those days well which you describe Lynn. Now you have me waxing nostalgic.
For this country, and we are a rather conservative people, no doubt, it was actually a robust and exciting time to be alive. Likewise the trade union and what were known as the single working men's solidarity movements of the 1930s, make what passes for so today look like a defanged and denutted shadow beast of its former self.
The potential for which and more is still all there, waiting for the time and the trigger that will unleash it all again. For I really don't think "the potential" of people has changed all that much.
Give these Neocons time to continue fuking it up as they are.
It's like watching an uptick in the economy, to which Thomas 489 alluded somewhere, such as is occurring now to the benefit of some folks and not so for very many others. About the time folks start to think it is never going to end... BAM! ...it does. I've been through this cyclical characteristic with capitalism, round and round again, all my bloody life.
Now however, even through the so-called "good times", they never quite achieve the high of the previous cycle, not since the late 1970s, in a kind of slow, steady, downward spiral that has been going on throughout the Neocon "Post Prosperity" Period. The lows however, when they hit, achieve deeper depths of despair, homelessness, prostitution, declines in working class incomes, and declines in the underpinning social services infrastructure, that had always previously sustained people over the humps that capitalism inevitably thows up in the way of the working class.
What is missing is the more vibrant and militant, even if certainly not perfect or sufficiently developed, working class and student movements.
But then, when Rome and its slave system were at the height of its power, you know that from within that system, from the highest to the lowest levels of that society, in Rome itself and abroad in the vassal states from which it drew its plunder and slaves, that it must have looked and felt like it would never end. And the Roman Empire, ruled from Rome, lasted from the time of Augustus in 27 BC, to 476 AD when the last Roman Emperor Romulus Augustulus was deposed. And actually, the slave system was widespread throughout both the Classical Greek and later Roman period. (The same Greece and the same slave system that "apparently" was the cradle of democracy in the "Western tradition". Yeah, the ruling class version of it at least.)
But end it eventually did, save as but a marginal element even still in parts of the "modern", more accurately, "contemporary" world. (Though one could certainly make a good case that humans are still incredibly primitive really, certainly socially, I think.)
Capitalism has been with us, what? But since the 18th Century, barely more than 300 years, if that.
To everything there is a season, and this too shall pass. When it too has served its purpose, or has destroyed the very natural preconditions for its existance, and/or we have wearied enough of it.
And if you were on the right side of the class line, even in Greek/Roman times, life could have still been very good.
ripponfalls
6 years ago
Coyote, the amazing about IAMC is that he still hasn't caught on to the thirty year old fraud of government stats... the old "if you aren't getting pokey then you aren't unemployed..." "If you've given up looking for work, then you aren't unemployed..." and don't forget the seasonally adjusted unemployed... as though having work in the summer was enough to keep you through the winter. When the right is in power, of course. Just let the NDP get in again, and we'll be in the worst recession since 1807 within a few weeks, and all the goods will be bads...
Odd how these 'no hopers' are always 'squeezing all you pinkos/socialists/lefties out... if it were true, they wouldn't have to keep repeating it over and over and over again, so just who are they trying to convince?... whistling past the graveyard?
You're translation is literal and understandable, but not exactly commen usage. I think the closest would be "Je vous emmerde". That expresses the sentiment and crudity needed for a scatalogical putdown... whereas I believe the more "proper" form is "Je vous donne le mot de Charbon". (or is it le mot Charbon? Any native french speakers here?)
Elliot
6 years ago
follow the french? oh my god i'm laughing so hard i'm shaking like a french soldier. blather on lefties.
G West
6 years ago
Elliot
some interesting posts on the Naslund site since you left...you should check it out...great post on the Giants game tonight!
Fiat lux
6 years ago
Economic systems have very short lifespans, usually around 30-40 years. Capitalism may have been around for 300 years, but it also has many facets and this latest form, the neoclassical Chicago School, originating with the Austrian School, basically a rejuvenation of the 19th century laissez faire, Dickensian version, has been around for only about 30. Now, the world, e.g. South America, is beginning to wake up and turn against it.
In our so called "developed countries" it is now running on inertia, as more and more people are also beginning to realize that it is a monumental fraud.
Its colonizing, collectivizing, ideological twin brother, Soviet communism, lasted 70 years, rejuvenated by WW2 and its inertia of patriotic outpouring. Otherwise, it would have collapsed long before, as it has in the Eastern European countries after 45 years.
It is quite possible that our so called economy would go into recession under an NDP government, because the banks and corporations would do their best to cause it to blackmail people into accepting their orders and demands for insatiable and ever increasing profits. As they have done it in Asia, with the Asian Flu 9 years ago.
Under the present monetary system they can put the screws on and blackmail anybody, or any country and do anything they want. This used to be called fascism in the past, but it is now called "democracy" to pacify the suckers, like the trolls on this site.
Ed Deak.
Coyote
6 years ago
Indeed ripponfalls, an interesting post you give us above here. And all entirely accurate points, of course. Thank you for it.
As for my French... You have to be aware that when I finally got around to doing highschool late in my thirties, and taking German and French together, my French teacher told me that I spoke French with a flawless German accent. ... and my French remains fatally compromised. I'm still better at German.
But I'm assuming you are referring to my play on words with the phrase, "Let them eat cake." directed to one or the other Neoconazis who come here to breed, where I said, to let them "Mangez la merde", which literally means something like "Eat the earth", but is the colloquial way of say "Eat shit."
My memory may have indeed got that wrong. 8-D Though for some perverse reason of my nature, in all languages, I do better at remembering and repeating cuss words, and "irreverant" phrases. There is something about the earthy, to the very soul feel of swearing that I am addicted to like a drug, I think. :-)
Though perhaps you are referring to something else. In which case I apologize. Risking my credibility, by loosely throwing in foreign words and phrases once in awhile is one of those childish ways of showing off that I have carried into my late adulthood. 8-D lol
There is something about crossing a log over a deep ravine that has always appealed to and challenged me.
A good day, brother. (Or sister, if that be the case. :-)
What a fuk that Elliot is, eh? Which is so typical of the walnut Neoconazi brain. They buy into every stereotype of "other" people that circulates. (I remember fleeing US soldiers from Saigon, Elliot. Scared shitless for their lives, hanging from the undercarriages of helicopters. Who have always done best against smaller and poorer nations, like Grenada and Panama, disarmed prisoners, women and children anyway. Hopefully our soldiers at least, in Afghanistan where they have no business, will not sink so low as their US military mentors.)
Elliot
6 years ago
another classy post from the godfather of blather. been into the dandelion wine again coyote? just what is it you're trying to bleat in that last paragragh old-timer? that the french army don't have a history of fleeing and/or surrendering when under pressure?
G West
6 years ago
Elliot, what's up? Stuffs happening over at the Naslund ranch, dude! You better get over there and check it out - truly - that's where your talents lie. Leave the forest to the real animals.
Elliot
6 years ago
come on g! you know as well as all the other lefties that it would be boring around here without me to kick around.
G West
6 years ago
Is that why you wear the sign on your back?
Elliot
6 years ago
you mean my suit and tie?
G West
6 years ago
No, the one that says 'kick me'!
Nonis is giving a little press conference right now!
Elliot
6 years ago
nonis is a deer in the headlights. they should have hired a real gm.
G West
6 years ago
Why did they call a newsconference for that?
G West
6 years ago
He looks like a deer that's been hit by a car
don't you think? - no wonder they had such a pathetic year - the guy is poleaxed
nightbloom
6 years ago
SFU has the highest student suicide rate of any PSE institution in Canada, btw.
Alcibiades - passion is great when channelled constructively. Clearly something is going awry. It's reflected in other ways too. Youth participation at the polls is abysmal. In fact, youth participation in anything is non-existent. Look any any youth-oriented civic organization, be it the Scouts, the Cadets, or Church groups of any denomination. Asian youth show themselves by the legion. East Indian youth a distant second. Apathetic white louts are way down the list - they're home playing X-box or in a basement with their iPod. It hits me in the face every Rememberance Day parade, just pick one public example where in change is starkly evident.
Alcibiades
6 years ago
nightbloom
Of course. Give the Asians and East Asians a generation or two and they'll be right down there with the 'apathetic white louts' working on the modification and adaptation of the opposable thumb.
Where do you think that behavior is learned?
I'll tell you where it's not learned - in relationships where values and real learning haven't been supplanted by a search for instant pleasure and the acquisition of more stuff. We get, unfortunately, exactly what we pay for - crap!
French youth appear to be drinking a different kind of nectar - what is it exactly? Tradition?
Religion? Class consciousness? Hope? Real intellectual stimulation?
I'm looking for ideas, I don't disagree with your position - I'm just frustrated because all you seem to do is 'describe' the problem in four or five different ways.
Frank
6 years ago
Public partipation in everything is declining according to a book whose title escapes me.
There's also this paper
http://www.masterla.de/conf/pdf/conf2005/13selle_c.pdf
Our lives are busy, working longer hours, greater stress and therefore a desire to spend liesure time in more pleasurable pursuits etc. The flip side to "cocooning".
Also, a general apathy brought on by the belief our input is not wanted and nor will our input affect anything.
The decline in public participation generally goes hand in hand with the decline of neighbourliness and the "community" of course.
G West
6 years ago
frank
Thanks for the article, it's interesting.
I recently read an analysis of one of Bobbie Ann Mason's short stories, Shiloh, called "The Wounded King: Bobbie Ann Mason’s “Shiloh†and Marginalized Male Subjectivity" by Greg Bentley
It implied there is a lot of confusion among young men about their role these days.
Also, the education system as well as parents' examples are often inadequate preparation for the world they will be living in. Biology and tradition may have a lot more to do with drug use and irresponsibility than we'd like to admit.
Certainly, when I hear the idealism of some young people (about a nominal and marginal activity such as, say, a minor volunteer experience) I don't wonder they run out of enthusiasm in a hurry. Their expectations are out of all proportion with reality.
I wonder if the disconnect between the two – reality and expectation - leads, after some frustrating experience, into a more nihilistic approach to life in general and their own hopes in particular.
Frank
6 years ago
G,
Apathy at best it seems and the community is worse off. I see little in the way of volunteerism, community involvement and among many a complete dismissal of politics or any sense of making the world a better place. It all seems focused on job and money and when the meaningful job isn't there either you get the self-destructive behaviour.
I can't blame them either, its harder to find a decent job, house prices are climbing out of reach, they're told constantly not to rely on pensions or public health care. Probably seems overwhelming.
Sort of an "end of the commons" applied to youth.
G West
6 years ago
Frank
I agree. I've always thought the challenges for many kids these days are either too simplistic or pedestrian on the one hand or far too difficult on the other. At the same time, I see indications that kids will, more or less on their own and if they're permitted to, get busy and create something for themselves and even the community. Things like a skateboard park or even some kind of public art.
Adults really don't want kids around much and seldom encourage them to get involved in longer term projects that might lead them to a greater sense of engagement with the community. Half the time there’s no bloody community left anymore to engage with – it’s been fractured by the way we live, in most cities anyway. Therefore, kids are often only involved in their own sort of community that their parents neither respect nor trust and are usually very suspicious of.
It’s often a vicious cycle at the end of which a lot of kids turn from solitary activities like music and video games to drugs and other activities that will engage their emotions.
Maybe it's surprising so many of them turn out as well as they do. When I listen to the overly idealistic (my gloss) impressions of some of the young people who’ve been questioned about their reasons for joining the armed forces and shipping off to Afghanistan I never know quite whether to applaud their idealism or cry at their naïveté.
lynn
6 years ago
(
I think you're quite right...
And the Capitalist system, too, is really quite primitive I think...quite cannabilistic.
And a really interesting "waxing nostalgic" piece above...doesn't seem that long ago does it? ;-)
nightbloom
6 years ago
Alcibiades - I think it comes down to national culture and ethnic character. The French reaction to politics is passionate and adroit where the English are sardonic and oblique (yes, it's stereoyping, I know). The French know they can "rock their establishment" because their establishment has been tipped over so many times. It's so easy. They've seen it happen. The English establishment was only tipped over once, long ago, and even then the status quo returned after 12 years (i.e. Cromwell's Interregnum). Also, the French are on the losing end of an array of social anxieties related to identity and self-extinction....from the English colonizing the globe and hence global culture, to the Germans out-breeding them and driving them into the ocean. Now it's not the Germans & the English that are worrying the French...it's the North Africans, Arabs and Turks...
So in a nutshetll I think the English (and English Canada) are complacent. We're unfamiliar with the "survival issues" that have historically plagued the French.
But I'm really just guessing...I have no idea...
Alcibiades
6 years ago
nightbloom
I take it then that you don't think Asians and South Asians are immune (after a generation to two) to the anesthetizing effects of, as you put it, English, mass culture.
Interesting thought. I'm not sure I'm convinced it hasn't got a lot more to do with the dead lie at the heart of global capitalism; but that's just me. I have this vision of thousands of deracinated kids milling around tagging a blank concrete wall for recreation.