SRO Hotel Evictions Mount
Critics see trend tied to Olympics, gentrification.
On March 30, Vancouver Fire Department inspectors visited the Burns Block, a SRO hotel at 18 W. Hastings. By mid afternoon, the department's inspectors had ordered all tenants to leave the building and find alternate shelter. (SRO means single room occupancy, the bottom end of market housing and, often enough, the only shelter available to low income tenants.)
During the same week, residents of the nearby Pender Hotel finally secured a settlement of their Residential Tenancy Act complaint. The complaint was based on a fire and police department raid at their hotel last fall which had left residents living behind doors that had been kicked in and never repaired. Now, with the complaint settled, local critics tell The Tyee the way is clear for the owners of the Pender to develop it as a high-end boutique hotel.
Meanwhile, the city has announced a hearing April 12 that may close the Lucky Lodge, another troubled hotel in the Downtown East Side, and a similar hearing scheduled for May to consider closing the Astoria Hotel on East Hastings.
These incidents have led neighborhood activists and advocates to charge that, contrary to government commitments, the run-up to the Olympics and gentrification in the Downtown East Side are creating downward pressure on low income housing stocks in the neighborhood and forcing more people into homelessness.
Housing count disputed
The losses mount up. Closures already in place at the Burns Block and the Pender, plus threatened closures at the Lucky Lodge and Astoria could result in the neighborhood losing 192 low-income rental spaces.
Some observers charge that city research into housing stock issues is flawed in ways that minimize the damage that is being done to low cost housing supplies, while a city hall insider told The Tyee that the Burns Block evictions did not follow usual city procedure and were unnecessary.
City of Vancouver research (City of Vancouver Administrative Report A11, 2005 Survey of Low-Income Housing in the Downtown Core) suggests that low-income housing has increased by 3 percent in the Downtown Core from 2003 through 2005, with 99 more units available. However, David Eby of Pivot Legal Society is critical of this research, charging that it is based on two flaws in its analysis, flaws that mask a grim reality of reduced housing and increased homelessness in Vancouver's poorest neighborhoods.
Eby told The Tyee that the city report improperly includes spaces set aside for student housing in its count of low income housing available, and fails to take into account the effects of rent increases on the availability of housing for low income tenants. For a full sense of the Pivot critique, go here.
Usual procedure?
A city of Vancouver insider spoke to The Tyee on this matter, but was only willing to comment anonymously. Familiar with enforcement issues in the Downtown Eastside and with the details of the events at the Burns Block, this source told The Tyee that the inspection and evictions did not follow usual procedure.
"Usually," our source told us, "if the Neighborhood Integrated Services inspection team identifies safety problems, orders are issued for them to be corrected and then follow up inspections happen, all of which keeps people in their homes."
The March 30 "action wasn't a NIS procedure, and it almost looks like a fireman and a policeman with an agenda at work. There should have been time to correct the faults they found," the source said.
The Tyee contacted Barbara Windsor, Director of Licenses and Permits for the City of Vancouver, who referred all questions about proper procedure to fire department officials.
The reason for the Burns Block evictions, Deputy Chief, Fire Protection Les Szikai told The Tyee in a phone interview, was a series of fire safety regulation breaches discovered at the Burns by his inspectors and a clear statement from the hotel's owner that he did not intend to make necessary repairs.
"I talked to the owner," Szikai said, "and he told me he had no intention of putting any more money into repairing the hotel. He said he means to sell it off. If the owner had been cooperative, the hotel could have stayed open."
Burns Block owner Nick Bahrami has a different memory than deputy chief Szikai of their conversation.
"The fire chief wanted me to spend a lot of money on the hotel. We were fixing things every time they told us to," Bahrami told the Tyee. "I would have been ready to make repairs. The manager nailed shut the exits while I was away and we were getting them opened up. The sprinkler was working just fine. I think the city wants to clean up that area and they're using this fire safety stuff as an excuse."
'Imminent danger'
Vancouver Fire Department Education and Public Information officer Rob Jones-Cook denied that the decision to remove Burns Block tenants was premature.
"We saw occupants of this building in imminent danger. The alarm system didn't work, the fire escape exits were blocked, the emergency lights weren't working and the sprinkler system was suspect. On top of that, the owner told us he had no intention of making any repairs. With the safety equipment not working, we would have been liable if we'd left them in the hotel and something happened to them."
Jones-Cook rejected suggestions that the fire department was somehow acting as an eviction agent for gentrifying landlords or the 2010 Olympics.
"We're just doing our job," he told The Tyee. "Your building is either safe or not safe, and it not, we can't let people stay in danger."
Sister Elizabeth Kelliher, who helps run the Franciscan Sisters of the Atonement soup kitchen in the Downtown Eastside, is skeptical.
"The mechanisms are in place to correct problems," she said. "We're seeing many places shut down for problems that have existed for years. Now, all of a sudden, with no warning, boom, people are being thrown out. People were promised a lot of social housing when the Olympics were being discussed. When are we going to see the social housing? We're feeding more and more hungry people, and we're seeing more and more people sleeping right outside the church."
Vancouver journalist Tom Sandborn is a regular contributor to The Tyee. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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Alcibiades
5 years ago
Comments on "SRO Hotel Evictions Mount "
What does this remind you of?
rkewen
5 years ago
I see a similarity to 1985-86
Alcibiades
5 years ago
No kidding. Well done, by the way, on your other project...you're doing fine.
Simon_Carlsen
5 years ago
Imagine the fury of the tyee if there had been a fire at one of these hotels and their readership was injured!! The spin would have been about fire/police etc. not caring about the less fortunate. I guess you can have it both ways.
Once again, I will save you the time of responding to this comment by summarizing,using keywords, a typical response to any non-A.N.S.W.E.R. approved posts: corporations, neoconazi, privitization, Gordon Campbell, France, Bush.
jesterjogger
5 years ago
If they try that with me I'll make sure to take as many of those rich, greedy motherfoolers with me as I can. Then they can build their olympian luxury condos and I'll have a new place of my own!! (it may be small but atleast I'll have a roof over my head)
jesterjogger
5 years ago
Wait I have a better idea!!
Why don't the provincial liberals in conjunction with the federal conservatives open a chain of nation wide suicide clinics like the one Edward G Robinson went to in the movie Soylent Green.
Then people for whom the new era/golden decade has no need for, in all it's olympian spirit, can simply do the right thing by their new esl landlords! Think of it as the ultimate in gentrification technology. And it has a proven track record from Argentina to Germany, from phnom peng to nanking.
Gary
5 years ago
I don't know what else can be expected when we not only elect Campbell provincially but the rest of his cronies in cities and municipalities.
Sister Elizabeth Kelliher says she is skeptical. What a kind lady. I call the responses outright lies. There is no doubt when they remove low income housing from false creek and then begin shutting down buildings on the east side that have had these problems for years that there is an alterior motive. How stupid do these people think the public are. I'm willing to bet that we will see the next few years filled with protests as we did in the 60's.
brain
5 years ago
Fire regs are an excuse to toss people out! I have seen it many times!
Logjam 603
5 years ago
we should be supporting the closing of these SRO slums. Too many socialists and progressives leave themselves open to being accused of being poverty pimps by raging on and keeping these things open.
Many, if not most of the poor souls who live in those slum buidings are incapable of taking care of themselves and will never be productive members of society if they remain living in the same space as the other addicts and in a neighbourhood that is controlled by drug dealers.
Maybe they will move out of the cities to smaller towns, less expensive then Vancouver where they can be away from the bad influences that they are incapable of protecting themselves from.
we should be fighting to close these slums, not keep them open so poverty slum landlords can rip the addicts off.
Yammer
5 years ago
I think there has to be a solution that doesn't involve kicking people out without warning, or turning a blind eye to fire regs which are there for a legitimate life-saving purpose.
Pivot Legal estimates the cost of supporting one person at roughly $30K annually. While I find this to be mindbogglingly high -- if you were actually earning $30K to spend, you would be making more like $60K in wages, so obviously there is a lack if math whizzes in Pivot Legal -- it is also high enough to attract builders and architects to create solutions. You would think.
brain
5 years ago
Nope! I don't agree with that. you can't just kick people out of thier homes with no notice to move yourself ahead.
How about if someone just desided you were incapable of taking care of yourself and moved you to some small town.
Don't pretend you care! Cause it's obvios you don't.
Cycling Commuter
5 years ago
The average Canadian moves about every 4 years. Over the years, I have lived in the City of Vancouver, North Vancouver, Burnaby, Port Coquitlam, South Delta, a small, remote logging town, and even in Whalley for a while. I could hardly wait to get out of Whalley. It was Surrey's equivalent of Vancouver's Downtown Eastside - a dump.
Some moves were made to be closer to work. Other moves were made to obtain greater affordability. Most people who actually work for a living can't afford to live in downtown Vancouver.
As property taxes continue to rise much faster than income, eventually few people will be able to afford to live anywhere in Greater Vancouver. When property taxes rise to the point that they consume 90 percent of the average income, people who actually work for a living will barely be able to afford a tarpaper shack on the edge of the Cache Creek landfill site with the 10 percent of income remaining after taxes.
Some NDP supporters describe themselves as the "Religious Left." They seem to think "tithing" means people who work for a living should raise their families on 10 percent of their earnings and give the other 90 percent of their earnings to ultra-rich multi-billionaire drug traffickers after temporarily passing it through the hands of social workers and drug addicts.
The point is, when people who actually work for a living are being forced further and further away from downtown due to increasing property prices and taxes, why is it considered such a tragedy if someone who's on welfare moves to a more affordable place?
A friend's low-income mother has lived for years in a nice low-income housing unit on Boundary Road where land is much less expensive than downtown land and the neighborhood is ten times safer. What's wrong with that?
Socialists are always saying that prisons are not a solution to crime, they're a breeding ground for crime because when you pack criminally-inclined people together they learn from each other instead of learning from better-adjusted role models when they're integrated with the community. Vancouver's Dwontown Eastside is human warehousing at its worst, a breeding ground for crime, a prison without walls. It would be better for just about everyone to tear down this prison and provide low-income integrated housing throughout B.C. where there are appropriate role-models and appropriate employment opportunities. A recovering drug addict is not likely to land a job as a senior executive in one of the office towers downtown, but they may be capable of working at a less stressful job in the suburbs or in a small town. Why would the downtown drug addicts who have so much hatred for corporate executives want to live just a few blocks away from their office towers where there are zero prospects for employment?
The only people who stand to gain from perpetuating the Downtown Eastside human warehousing system, the prison without walls, are the ultra-rich multibillionaire drug traffickers and the $35 per hour social workers whom the ultra-rich drug traffickers see as "useful idiots."
Cycling Commuter
5 years ago
In the 1920s, Louisiana Governer Huey Long replaced regressive property taxes on poor people with increased resource taxes and other progressive taxes. He considered Franklin Roosevelt's "New Deal" to be a sell-out to the rich, a complete sham. He accused Roosevelt of trying to help poor people by taxing the poor and giving some of their own money back to them minus the huge cost of government bureaucracy required to play this shell game.
In 1935, during the depths of the depression, Long was on-track to battle Roosevelt for the U.S. presidency and expand his "Share-the-Wealth" tax-the-hell-out-of-the-rich concept across all of the U.S. when he was assassinated. You can read some of Long's speeches at http://www.ssa.gov/history/longsen.html and http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5109/. A digital audio file of one of his speeches is available at http://historymatters.gmu.edu/audio/8_7_2_a_MSTR.mov.
These speeches are mostly extremely inflammatory attacks against the greedy ultra-rich. They contain excellent ammunition that's timeless. It's amazing that Bush has allowed them to be posted on U.S government websites. Better download them now and save copies before he removes them.
I don't agree with everything Long said, but he made many excellent points that are seldom mentioned elsewhere.
Logjam 603
5 years ago
"The only people who stand to gain from perpetuating the Downtown Eastside human warehousing system, the prison without walls, are the ultra-rich multibillionaire drug traffickers and the $35 per hour social workers whom the ultra-rich drug traffickers see as "useful idiots.""
Well said . . . .
Doesn't Libby Davies still live in one of those subsidized DTE social housing estates, despite the fact she earns close to $200 thousand dollars & travels first class all the way as an NDP MP ??.
That is terible. She should be booted out of the NDP. She is stealing from the real poor, the real needy. Make room for a truly needy person.
Poverty pimping at its worst.
Percy
5 years ago
Low end ("flop house") accommodation has almost disappeared in North America in the past 60 years, and it is well documented that its demise is a direct result of municipalities insisting on enforcement of safety and fire codes etc. Simply put, cheap housing can't afford the cost of regulation. Typically, a fire in a flop house (for example, the Rupert Hotel in Toronto) led to public outcry and insistence that these people be protected by strict enforcement. The establishment can't comply and stay in business. So the tenants get turfed, as a result of public concern that their accommodations not be sub-standard. It's a policy dilemma, but it has no connection to corporate conspiracies.
Gerhardius
5 years ago
In the early 70's people stood up and demanded more stringent fire regulations and regular inspections for SRO hotels. This was a reaction to the number of fire deaths, as I recall 5 in one fire, in the DES. Bruce Eriksen, late husband or partner of Libby Davies (depending upon which biography one reads at her website), led the fight. The lasting reduction in fire related fatalities in the DES is part of his legacy, as is DERA.
Colin
5 years ago
Interesting comments, although I won’t comment on how this case was handled. I can tell you as a regulatory officer myself, that once you become aware of a situation within your mandate that could lead to the loss of life or serious injury, you are duty bound to deal with it within the confines of the law you enforce. For situations that fall outside of your mandate, you must attempt to pass on the information to the responsible authorities. If you do neither, you could be held personally liable.
You can also be held liable if you step outside the confines of your Act/bylaw and suggest an alternate solution that backfires. Law is a cumbersome beast.
xinit
5 years ago
I can't imagine that anyone would buy a condo solely for the Olympics unless they have more money than brains; this isn't Expo where the buildup and event were about 2 years so it would make sense to buy a condo as rental property. In this case it's a very short event. This isn't JUST about the Olympics by any stretch.
It doesn't have anything to do directly with the provincial government either, but more to do with bad landlords and buildings in need...
verso
5 years ago
Once again, I will save you the time of responding to this comment by summarizing,using keywords, a typical response to any non-A.N.S.W.E.R. approved posts: corporations, neoconazi, privitization, Gordon Campbell, France, Bush.
For the sake of balance I'll provide you with some typical bugaboos from our friends on the right: poverty pimps, dippers, commies, bleeding hearts, lazy, social engineers, Glen Clark, fast ferries, unions, unions, oh and ah, unions...
Feel free to add your own.
G West
5 years ago
Simon_Carlsen comes when called if you type Cindy Sheehan into any article or post around here. I see that poverty and poor housing, not to mention the whiff of a slumlord developer stirs him to action too.
brain
5 years ago
It's not about the scum sucking pimps, the slumlords, it's about the people a lot of which are mentaly ill and handycapped and chucking them out of thier homes at a moments notice. How can people sleep at night after doing that. Why now? Where are they going to go?
BC Dude
5 years ago
by the way I don't remember coming across a blog about the every day joe in British Columbia who supports or doesn't support the B.C. Winter Olympics.
I myself think this is a selfish money grab by the Corporation's to keep the working poor paying into something that I really don't think is very popular!
Montreal hd their Olympics in 76 and from what I understand are just starting to pay it off, and who got rich the mayor and all of his buddies...
marta
5 years ago
Wow, there are actually some thoughtful nuanced comments here about how this is a difficult issue. Glad to read some of them especially Cycling Commuter's.
Logjam 603
5 years ago
"It's not about the scum sucking pimps, the slumlords, it's about the people a lot of which are mentaly ill and handycapped and chucking them out of thier homes at a moments notice. How can people sleep at night after doing that."
Not nice to call our Public Health inspectors, our Fire fighters, our Public Nurses, our building inspectors such nasty names.
The real question is why these poor people who live in SRo slums made the lifestyle decisions many years ago that lead them to adopt such self destructive life styles that lead to their ending up in SRO's
Why didn't society intervene to get them back on the straight and narrow a long time ago, using force if necessary.
As long as people are totally free to spend thier time on this earth doing what they want, there will be limits on how much the rest of society needs to do to help them.
brain
5 years ago
I did not call any of those people nasty names I just asked how they can justify doing it?
Some of those people are mentaly ill one guy was brain damaged. They need the publics help.
People can never stop helping these individuals. A lot of these people have tramatic lives that you will never understand. You can't just chuck them out of their homes. It makes me really sad.
There has got to be more options.
jesterjogger
5 years ago
The real "scum-sucking pimps" are men like gordo, emersion, reynolds and falcon and the corporate overlords who pull their puppet strings.
Everything they do is a scam, institutionalized thievery. The olympics, the sea-to-sky highway, the gateway project, the rav line etc etc etc etc
There is little public utility in any of these self-serving mega-projects. A select few corporate donors get sweet-heart, back door deals and the public foots the multi-generational bills.
BUT when it comes time for government action on serious issues in the PUBLIC domain, like child-protection or environmental and social safeguards these scum disapear like cockroaches when the basement light goes on.
S
haraldkann
5 years ago
When i came out here in 1979 i stayed in Gastown for a couple of years and worked out of my brothers photography studio.I rented rooms at the Europe,Lamplighter and Cambie by that damn steam clock.
IN EVERY HOTEL...were the disabled(usually cheated out of WCB OR ICBC) the VETRANS(living on pathetic pensions) the mentally ill/drug users who were usually SEXUALLY MOLESTED...
I made a lot of money working for my brother in Gastown and the people there really opened my eyes...and things have not gotten better for these unfortunates...they have gotten worse.
and the landlords are still the same SCUMSUCKERS , FEEDING ON THE POOR .
wendythirteen
5 years ago
This Execution Of The Sahota Slumpire [cobalt Balmoral Regent Astoria Regal Hotels] Started About 5 Years Ago....i Unfortunately Have Had My Music Venues [cobalt Asbalt] Located In These Hotels....in Comparison To Some Of The Portland Society Shitholes These ...especially The Astoria Hotel Are Jewels...and Yes They Contain Their Fair Share Of Pensioners And Sex Workers....these Are People....how About The Single Alcoholic Middle Aged Men That Work Day To Day Labor Ready Jobs That Are Now Hooked On Meth....they Live Here....where Will They Go...unfortunately When The No Fun City Eventually Gets Its Way In Mid May ...the Music Scene Will Lose Yet Another Venue Which Helps Restore Order And Youthful Vitality To A Dying And Addicted Place....i Am Also A Victim Of This Injustice As Are All Your Friends In The Music Community...the City Does Not Seem To Recognize The Music Community As A Free Revitalization Tool...pathetic...
I Tried To Have A Letter Writing Campaign To Hopefully Change Their Minds But They Just Pick And Pick Away....agendas Are Big Business...dont Think Twice About The Valuable Property These Places Are Perched On...and The Friends Of Government Ready To Develop Them...another Half A Million Dollar Condo Anyone?
brain
5 years ago
Good one Wendy. I don't get where people are missing the point!
Logjam 603
5 years ago
we can't blame the landords.
Blame society, blame the governmnet, blame all the unions getting rich off their backs.
Blame, blame blame.
Now I feel better.
haraldkann
5 years ago
logjam603
I guess you have never checked the rent prices around BC...THEY AINT CHEAP ANYWHERE
[B]especially when you are on disability and the so called nice people of small town BC dont want to rent to you.
Human Rights Complaint if they dont ,you say...you must be Micheal Kampbell/NEOCON MORON ,trolling .
North of Hope
5 years ago
Why doesn't VANOC build apartments for the athletes at UBC? That is what was done in Calgary at their Winter OLympics. 1, 2 and 4 bedroom apartments were built for the athletes on the University of Calgary campus. And now they are used for student housing. They are great apartments and they still serve a purpose. Combine this building with the need for more housing at UBC. This process to move the poor out of downtown Vancouver and build condos for the well to-do is just a scam brought to us by Gordo and his pals.
RickW
5 years ago
Alcibiades:
I thought it reminded me of a mini-Kristallnacht:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht
RickW
5 years ago
North of Hope:
You want to "waste" resources on students? When they could be SOLD, and converted into condos......?
RickW
5 years ago
jesterjogger:
Anyone want to bet of WHEN Huges recommendations will actually be implemented....?
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Rick W
Good point. I was actually thinking of when exactly the same kind of thing happened in the runup to Expo 86.
Diogenes
5 years ago
with regard to the fire inspectors
They can be held personally responsible and be made finaccialy liable (sued) if they pass a building and it is found to be unsafe after a fire in same building
The real tragedy is the ones affected are the tenants
As far as the individuals making a choice to live like they do I hope the suggestion is not that the choice was made at a conscious level.
Jumping Jesus Christ! Not making a choice is a choice!
But who amongst the accusers hold someone so screwed up on drugs or alcohol, or mentally ill responsible for the choices they have made?
haraldkann
5 years ago
HOW ABOUT NEOCON PARENTS THROWING THEIR KIDS OUT INTO THE STREETS...SO PARASITES CAN FEED ON THEM FOR SEX AND DRUGS.
Gerhardius
5 years ago
RickW wrote:
Is there any event that somebody won't equate to Nazi terror? There have been other nasty events in human history besides the Holocaust, and some that actually have similarities to the SRO evictions. Ceaucescu displaced entire villages as well as great swaths of Bucharest in various mega-projects; Mao's cronies destroyed many old buildings in Beijing and other cities is one program or another; urban renewal projects in the US (St. Louis, Detroit, Newark ...) and the construction of "tower blocks" throughout Great Britain displaced hundreds of thousands of urban poor; and most relevant (and pointed out above) the evictions during the build up to Expo 86.
Holocaust deniers are a dangerous joke, but Holocaust "comparers" post among us. This is from the Wiki entry for Kristallnacht
The elimination of 192 low-income rental spaces is capitalist brutalism at its finest, but it can't be legitimately compared to Kristallnacht, even with the modifier "mini."
haraldkann
5 years ago
No the incidents cannot be compared directly,what can be compared directly is the mentality of the people involved and the politics of hatred utilized by those who can get away with anything they do because they write the laws to justify any machinations to aatain their goals.
Just like Kampbell & Kompany same "i am just doing my job" that all the Nazis mouthed while they were being tried for war crimes/crimes against humanity.
LIKE LETTING 716 KIDS DIE ON YOUR WATCH AS PREMIER
REMEMBER HOW KAMPBELL SCREAMED THRY THE MATTHEIU VAUDRILLE SCANDAL...IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN ON THE LIBERAL WATCH...
WELL WHAT ABOUT SHERRY CHARLIE...AND THE OTHER 715 KIDS ?
Colin
5 years ago
Actually more recent comparison and a little closer will that of Mugabe clearing the slums of people with bulldozers that had the audacity to criticize him.
Even without the Olympics the writing was on the wall for these places, the area was being rebuilt block by block. The Olympics is merely speeding up the process.
haraldkann
5 years ago
With my brothers studio being in Gastown,we frequently talked of the multiple times,the city tried to regenerate the area.The rebuild for EXPO 86 brought in many new people but few remain today.
Cities constantly change and rarely for the betterment of people.It is usually for the MOVEMENT OF GOODS and nothing more.
TRAFFIC/PARKING ,always the key words.
Coyote
5 years ago
This is again, of course, the social order capitalism in BC created with its tax cuts to the wealthy and its subsequent turfing of the mentally ill out of mental hospitals and onto the streets where they could be, "integrated into the community", which occurred coincidentally again, at the same time as the tax grab of this ruling class. Likewise the underfunding of alcohol and addiction spaces. (Remember the pious claims of the right at the time, about grand community and at home care and assistance programmes? Funny. Never hoppen.Surprise, surprise.)
I remember because I was driving transit bus downtown around the time, and observed the swelling of the streets with the subsequent mentally ill and self-medicating desparate, and the sudden growth of young and not so young women and boys on the streets prostituting themselves, like many a third world country I'd seen when I was in the navy. I couldn't believe it was happening here, and the speed with which it occurred. (All of which suddenly made driving for transit extremely more dangerous as well.)
And yet, as this Neocon fuq, Logjam would do, the neoconazis here would dare to accuse the left of "pimping" the poor! To be expected, but galling as well. That is their way. They create a public shit pile, and then immediately look around for someone else to point the finger at. (You know the type.)
The Mrs and I were in Vancouver here a couple weeks ago now, and had occassion to be down on lower east side Hastings around the old Woodwards building, another result of the current prevailing capitalist dynamic at work, where the wife and I both immediately thought, what a fuking war zone creation is this!
And it is. It's a consequence of the class war again, which has been raging within capitalism ever since the late seventies, and it isn't the left which initiated this you wingnut pimps to The System, but yourselves. (The left to there had in fact largely bought into the Endless Prosperity Capitalism myth. The Left then advocated for capitalism, more than not.) Except for the tame pussycat NDP, of course, which has evolved entirely into just another one of the "Parties of Capitalism", mildely "reformist" but still essentially so, WE, certainly of the "radical left" have been out of power and in the wilderness to which we were assigned, remember? (To which you constantly and proudly point as one of your achievements. And it is true, I grant.) And while this development is also commensurate with the collapse of the NDP as any significant force for social change, and has since drifted ever more towards collaboration with the status quo, this collapse of civil society is entirely your own creation.
Capitalism in its current stage of development, in fact, is what defines "pimping" and all other forms of exploitation and social decay found and growing within it. And this turfing of the mentally ill and poor even more now, from their slum quarters is but one further example of that contempt for the poor which inevitably occurs within the lopsided class system of capitalism, and for which you champion with classic, "let them it cake" laissez faire.
Keep it up, you logjammed up the social arse fugs. Keep it up. In the end, it's going to turn around and bite you on that very arse. And yes, I concede, that is still bleating from the wilderness pretty much-, but changing, changing, and ever more inviting us in from the cold. (Watch for us. We are the next really big development within capitalism.:-)
For as I live and breathe, this is evolving, and you are driving it-, over the cliff, your own drunk and self-intoxicated selves.
Quietly and determinedly prepare yourselves my friends, brothers, sisters and comrades. This Whorehouse of Capitalism they are attempting to create and pass off as civil society to working people, the young, the poor and mentally ill must not be allowed to stand
Coyote
5 years ago
Which should be, "... let them eat cake laissez faire" of course.
verso
5 years ago
And yet, as this Neocon fuq, Logjam would do, the neoconazis here would dare to accuse the left of "pimping" the poor!
Well put Coyote. Does any when know where this phrase "poverty pimp" originates? I first heard Mayencourt use it when sluring Jim Green. I found that laughable, considering Mayencourt's "life on the streets" publicity stunt a few years ago.
verso
5 years ago
bah, should read "does anyone know..."
Logjam 603
5 years ago
Coyote . . you should lay off the coffee a bit . . don't seem to be able to handle it and anger at the same time.
It will just eat you up from the inside. . maybe try a yoga class or something. Help you chill a bit
Socialism needs to move forward - its not the 1930's anymore buddy. Welefare is a trap, socialists have taken to living off the backs of the poor instead of making the necessary changes.
We need to abandom the rants & chants & get modern.
clubofrome
5 years ago
Ed, Frank or Coyote. If I may.... Who is Imago Klast?
G West
5 years ago
Where have I heard that kind of talk before? Sounds just a trifle 'rant-like' to me - and that bit about 'force' is not too modern either. Coyote says society will disintegrate and fall apart if it continues on its present trajectory.
You imply that if only some strong man came along and whipped us into shape everything would be okay.
Why am I more worried about your prescription?
Because history is littered with the remains of the little people who've been crushed beneath the heels of strong men who resort to 'force' to push their point of view.
G West
5 years ago
Writes on the theory of comparative advantage - among other things, especially as it applies to the history of modern Israel.
Coyote
5 years ago
Okay, there's my laugh for the day. 8-D lol
(Oh, and never claimed to be a socialist-, though I have great respect for those who actually are. Consider them amongst my closest comrades. It's just that I'm way more left than that, as it has come to be known anyway. I don't hang a particular label on it especially, or pack around a "formal" ideology, but I find "socialism" as it is typically described currently, pretty tame stuff. I want yo and capitalism's ass way more than that. A kind of radicalized democracy, that includes the economy, circumscribes and withers away classes, certainly a ruling class and its place of privilege, is, I find, a more comfortable description of where I'm coming from. ) Just for those of you who are uncomfortable with somebody who doesn't declare himself.
Coyote
5 years ago
Good response to Logjammed directly above me here, GWest. Ain't we heard that strongman, like the "great man" theory of capitalism before. Like they did it all by themselves, "my way", when really all they did, was do it "their way", and riding on the coat-tails of the working-class.
Coyote
5 years ago
The Mrs just said, "Some people will call themselves just about anything to get elected."
Which I though was a pretty good observation.
Hell, even Hitler called himself a "national socialist", while he actually pushed for and created a particular kind of militant unity between the Big Corporations and the State kind of capitalism. The USSR, especially under Stalin, but later, though moving towards a kind of greater "liberalization", called itself "socialist" as well, but really more resembled a kind of State Run Capitalism. Even Capitalist China calls itself "socialist". The NDP even, when they're closeted up in a room where nobody can hear them also often speak of "socialism", when they are really more a kind of "liberal-reformist capitalism".
So, unfortunately "socialist or socialism", which used to mean to advocate for "public ownership of the means of production", is a word that has come to be a whole lot more compromised and meaningless than that.
And I'm way more left than that. So I don't hang a particular label on my personal world view especially, or pack around a "formal" ideology, because I find "socialism" as it is typically described currently, pretty tame stuff. I want yo and capitalism's ass way more than that. A kind of radicalized democracy, that includes the economy but rejects a "controlling state", circumscribes and withers away classes, certainly a ruling class and its place of privilege, is, I find, a more comfortable description of where I'm coming from. ) Just for those of you who are uncomfortable with somebody who doesn't declare himself.
bob the cat
5 years ago
How about anarcho-syndicalist for a handle?
(Wobblies)
I like that anarcho-syndicalist...just found out ole Noam Chomsky is a card carrying Wobbly
Colin
5 years ago
Coyote
I remember my girlfriend and I handing out bag lunches in pigeon park during the time of the NDP, it was a war zone back then as well, in fact pigeon park was the hotspot of homicides for the city at the time.
Personally I prefer that social housing not be concentrated in one place as it begins to “ghettoize†the inhabitants and reduce the chances of them breaking the cycle.
G West
5 years ago
Colin:
The 'time of the NDP! What the hell does that mean: Was that the 3 years from 1972 to 1975 or the 10 years from 1991 to 2001? There's a much bigger chunk of BC history that the government in this province was run by ‘something’ else entirely. Let's just look at the period since 1900 - 106 years, give or take, and the NDP was in power for 13 of those years. You'd like them to take responsibility for the problems this society has created or ignored during those 106 years.
Typical neocon crap. The NDP is far from perfect, but they're not the ones who ought to wear the Albatross for pigeon park.
jamesm
5 years ago
If you can't or won't pay your own way in life then you basically cannot make any demands whatsoever in reagrds to where the free housing is. NONE.
If it weren't for slumlords there would be no cheap housing. Earth is filled with scumbags. GET USED TO IT . And so what if some wants to shut down their hotel ? It is not his responsibilty to look after those people and the DTES is the last place they need to be.The non'profits dont want any change at all. Also I see alot of able bodied people down there everyday doing nothing.
Where is the person responibility in this discussion? Im an ex-junkie/drunk who lives /owns in Gastown. I choose to get help and GET A JOB. Maybe there should be mandatory treatment. No treatment-no welfare. sounds reasonable and obviously this exludes the pensioners and mentally ill.
jesterjogger
5 years ago
Speaking of class warfare I just read (in the back pages) of a local canwest neo-con shill that garbage harper will indeed rescind the tax changes that gave middle income people a few hundred bucks back last year in "exchange" for that bullsh!t gst cut.
So if you buy a new mercedes you get 800 bucks back right away! If, on the other hand, you don't make big ticket luxury purchases as you are struggling just to survive well I guess that rich mercedes driving dude is going to enjoy the three hundred you won't be seeing anymore!!
Maybe he can send one of his mistresses to that place where another hottie places smooth stones on her back!
RickW
5 years ago
Coyote:
You could have picked htem up in your bus, and deposited them in the "kinder, gentler" environs of the British Properties........ :~)
Colin
5 years ago
G west
I couldn’t remember the exact dates, but it would have been around 1995. My point was that it was a mess back then also and neither Socred or NDP had done much about it. Although I freely admit that Campbell constant shuffling of ministries and responsibilities has made a bad situation worse. One can make an argument about cutting costs to match income, but you won’t find me agreeing with any of his reorganizing skills.
Coyote
5 years ago
Colin,
I don't particularly disagree with you. But you do not simply turf people out onto the street without that other "better" alternative and support system in place for folks to go to. That's the mistake "your people" made when you closed all the mental hospitals, for example. It is the typical capitalist way; Make way for us, we're coming though and gonna get rich. You get out there and fend for yourselves, catch as catch can.
And there, you see, as GWest catches you out, you are again attempting to fob off the blame, here to the NDP, for the poverty and dislocation created by the class dynamics of capitalism. The NDP didn't create the problem, though they have been reluctant and hesitant to "take the system on", in my view, but is the creation of the socio-economic system within which it has attempted to live and work.
I accept that the NDP, and particularly much of its rank and file, has been "well intentioned" enough and actually tries. But it has been up and against all the defensive and offensive machinery and manipulations of "a system" it has been timid about engaging and confronting, and has failed to put folks in motion and on the street where necessary, along with the trade union and other movements of the people, in favour of trying to "play the electoral game".
Which simply hasn't, and in my view, at this late stage, is not going to work. The new and more aggressive capitalism has simply passed it by as an any longer effective tool for the kinds of "deep social changes" that need to be made in extant society. It was the little train that thought it could and meant well, but came up historically a brick short of a load and a day late.
And that doesn't mean it has lost all "potential" usefulnees, I think, but that without a sudden "deep radicalization", in addition to being bypassed by the new and driving neoconservative, drifting towards fascism ideology of capitalism, into which it sought to insert and ingratiate itself, and exert a "moderating influence", it is about to be bypassed by folks searching for a "final solution" to the problem of capitalism, period.
So, Colin, the problem is the socio-economic system of capitalism, which in its exploitation and profit tax drive on the working class creates poverty, and now having created that pile of shit, like yourself, is casting about looking to blame the poor themselves and the bogeyman of the NDP socialist hordes, for what it has itself done.
I understand why. I just think you should acknowledge your own pile of shit.
Colin
5 years ago
Jester
As much as I would like to keep the “gift†that the Liberals threw at us in order placate the angry crowd at the last minute, I would certainly take the GST cut over it, rather than keep the Liberals. When you elect a new government do you seriously expect them to keep the election promises of the old?
Coyote
5 years ago
Actually, though I really didn't want to get into the complexities of it, I think, objectively, it is probably and "anarcho-syndicalist" which most accurately describes me-, if I must absolutely have a label. 8-D lol
And we do need our pigeonholes, no doubt.
RickW
5 years ago
Coyote:
Actually, the problem rises very much like Tommy Douglas illustrates in his "parable" of the Black Cats and White Cats. The Rightistas control the wealth, and favour the Rightistas with it. Now, if state and economy were separated, just as church and state are, not only wouldn't 99.9% of the rightistas run for government positions, they would likely foment rebellion againist those who would deny them inordinate advantage, proving once again that capitalism is simply not possible outside of the application of "might is right".......
clubofrome
5 years ago
I like his thinking.....
Colin
5 years ago
Coyote
Don’t for minute think that the NDP wants to make a substantial change to the system. The NDP support is made of a mix of upper middle class and upper blue collar workers, with a few other smaller groups. What is in it for them? The main political system will not change from a Capitalistic base even if they were in for 20 years straight. Governments need money to work, and the present system ensure a relatively stable supply of it. A fundamental change would require a either revolution, with large number of people dead, injured, displaced and made destitute or that a government takes over in a time of major crisis and suspends the current set of law in a scenario similar to Zimbabwe.
The “war†that you have described in the downtown Eastend has existed since the 1900’s It has ebbed and flowed under various governments, not just this government. Contrary to your and Gwest’s popular belief I did not vote for Campbell, I consider him as useless as Glen Clark, in fact I see them both as different sides of the same coin, a coin that is obsolete as both of their viewpoints.
haraldkann
5 years ago
If i remember correctly,the name Skid Row comes from the East End area from the old days.My short stay there really opened my eyes,seeing rock stars,movie actors and tourists nearly everyday amongst the junkies and homeless,1979 to 1983. The area was worse than when i first was introduced in 1966 ,while i did basic training in Chilliwack AND IT WAS A $H!THOLE THEN.
That area is one of the funkiest and desperate at the same time.I spent time in the Europe Hotel which is now a low income housing unit and that structure is one of the most beautiful in the world,many do not have a clue as to what that building contains,or the history.That buildingshould be saved and other landmarks as well,for affordable housing,for everybody.
You need people in the city,otherwise,the sterility will make it just as unlivable as the slums.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Who you vote for, Colin, is a matter of complete indifference to me.
I agree with G West that a little more precision and accuracy in terms of the current blame-game is required. Just in the interest of truth.
As far as the general question, it's pretty hard to explore what the results might have been if the NDP had been in power for anything like 50% of the time since 1900. If one took Sweden, however, as a reasonable social democratic parallel, I think the results might have been a 'little' different.
In the long run though, I'm voting with Coyote - the system's too far gone to save. We need to get out Harald's broom and Fiat Lux's economics and bob the cat and lynn's passion and get on with it.
And Avicenna's social conscience I hasten to add.
brain
5 years ago
Most of the people living down their have mental health issues. Even the sociopathic pimps, dealers and the landlords which all need to be put in jail. If you just put those guys in the clink where they belong, then we could help the guys with the hard lives. That is why we pay taxes!That is why we are not a third world country.
Screw the Olimpics, none of us will be able to go anyhow. And we are all gonna pay for it for years and years. I don't think we should sacrifice human life for it.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
And a lot of other good people, a number of them who post here all the time. I was in a hurry and I'm sorry if I left anyone out.
As for you Colin, you can hold the door and salute now and then.
Coyote
5 years ago
You are rushing and skimming, Colin. Slow down and read what I actually said. For if you had, you would know that is exactly what I said. The NDP fundamentally, has for a long time actually supported capitalism, for all the sometimes socialist sympathies and rhetorical genuflection, which it inherited from the Great Depression era.
It's basic strategy has been to try and put a human face on capitalism, no more, but frequently less. The NDP is "one of the parties of capitalism," regardless of all Neocon protestations to the contrary. You and it are but different aspects of the same essential socio-economic system.
The class system of capitalim is the problem. The political parties all of capitalism, merely, in the end, whatever their starting intention and professed formal ideology, serve its ruling class base. They must, because it is this ruling class which really controls the purse strings. And it is that which gives them an effective right of veto over government and policy to which they all aspire.
The NDP would never think of actually challenging that. (Though it did briefly, at the time of its CCF founding. Thereafter from which it quickly deteriorated-, though it, Labour, and other socialist, anarchist and communist groupings of the time, along with popular public sentiment were all much together the driving force to such the human social add-ons to capitalism as we currently see rapidly slipping away in this Neocon period of capitalism.
Though of all the parties of capitalism, I will say that historically, it has been at least "the least harmful" to the broad working class and public interest of all of them.
It is merely that time is moving on, while all the parties of capitalis, along with the ruling class wish of things are moving back towards the past. Though the NDP, I suspect, and that's just my read-, well, and my wife's, who is actually a member of the NDP, really doesn't know whether to shitt or go blind at this point.
But pay attention to what I actually say Colin, just as I do you. We should at least not seek to deceive or misrepresent each other.
RickW
5 years ago
Colin:
Bravo, Colin! Clark's "job" was to discredit the NDP, just at the time when the BC economy was beginning it's upturn.........
chevy
5 years ago
I think, if it is anything, we have to put the blame on simple greed. That's all. Investors have purchased these hotels and let them deteriorate to these states that they are in. If property managers and owners were pro-active in their efforts to maintain their
buildings, it wouldn't be so bad. It is not
a secret that property values are going up. So the owners have little or no incentive to keep their investments up. On top of that, you have addicts and mentally challenged not having the proper mental facilities to properly keep themselves healthy and safe. To finish this up, I know for a fact, this has nothing to do with red tape or hardened City by-laws. It has to do with owners not keeping up their properties and if it was up to me, I would have had those hotels expropriated a long time ago and turned them into proper places with good security and good staff to deal with the mental and drug issues going on.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
chevy
excellent suggestions
do you think the current city administration shares your sentiments?
if not, where does that leave us?
public servants do their masters' bidding
the human beings are inconsequential to the equation
history repeats itself
bcneocon
5 years ago
They way I see this issue:
- Kicking people out without due process is illegal, if it did occur where are the cops?
- If you don't like gentrification you have only one REAL option: Get a group of investors together and buy one of these SRO hotels yourself. They you can attempt to run the place with all your idealistic "the way society should be if it wasn't for the big bad capitalists" intact. Good luck!
- I guess there is a second option - get yourself elected and have the govt buy the building. We all know govt's run things a lot better than the big bad capitalists.
chevy
5 years ago
Neocon, trust me, if there was such a position
in the City as a property manager for these
buildings, I would fight tooth and nail to
get it. I would then run those buildings
very tightly and at the same time I would show
a little compassion too. And I would run it well making sure there is little impact to the taxpayer. Neocon, I don't know if your
limo stops at Main and Hastings but I
regularly jog through there and if u sat down
for a short while and talked a to a few of
the people down there, I guarantee that if one of them is given a promise of a clean space, they bend over backwards to make sure
it stays clean and trust me, they would thank
you everyday for a clean and warm place to live and sleep.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
bcneocon
-what is defined as 'legal' is usually within the power of the 'jurisdiction having authority' ~ ~
- which jurisdiction has the authority for:
a) the police; b) the fire department and the building inspectors.
- what has changed about the jurisdiction having authority since this time last year?
- who benefits from closing SRO hotels?
-
Coyote
5 years ago
Some very interesting observations and ideas from you, Chevy. And sympatico with my own observations of this "downtown" area.
But for a "memory" of my own of this area. Having a "wait" at Hastings and Main, in what was then my #8 Fraser bound bus, right there on Main in front of the Carnegie Centre. 2:10 AM, or something like that, was my leave time, shortly after the bars all closed at 2:00 AM.
I didn't worry about fares, or challenge anybody about anything, but would close the doors as soon as the bus was "redlined" and drive as fast as I could for Broadway and Fraser, where most of them would spill out, be pushed and or fall out. God what a zoo trip that was! Some of the sights were chilling, I tell ya.
Anway. Glad I don't have to do that for my daily bread anymore. The only thing that would be worse I could imagine, would be actually going down some back alley to hike my skirt for one or more of those BMW and Mercedes ruling class and gangster psychos circling the block in all those areas at that time of the morning.
Coyote
5 years ago
Now, that's desparation.
bob the cat
5 years ago
Coyote
That musta been some ride! Some "wait" as well.
Vancouver has some mean mean streets...spent some time in that area myself quite a long time ago (in a Galaxy far far away)..didn`t hang around long..whats that Dylan line " You gotta be honest to live outside the law" ...wasn`t honest enough and got out pretty quick.."
When you're lost in the rain in Juarez
And it's Eastertime too
And your gravity fails
And negativity don't pull you through
Don't put on any airs
When you're down on Rue Morgue Avenue
They got some hungry women there
And they really make a mess outa you
kenmo
5 years ago
Get your facts straight before you malign others... Libby (a friend of mine) lives in a condo on Victoria Drive near 7th, which she owns.
I know few people who are *less* deserving of this kind of mudslinging... she is one of the kindest souls I know.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
kenmo
that was Logjam 603 who posted that wasn't it? No one here takes anything he says seriously but thanks for clearing it up, kenmo. And pointing it out so nicely.
G West
5 years ago
There was another announcement in the media this morning about another SRO hotel which has been, or soon will be, closed down in circumstances similar to the ones described above. I didn't get all the details, having been in the car - it would seem, though, that a 'trend' is developing!