if the pink panther, svend, wins this i'll go into major depression. i grew up as a lefty and fail to see how a wealthy man who steals expensive jewelry is truly a man of the people. he is an opportunist and an overrated politician.

i think it's nonsense that he was considered a hard working mp. his staff did all the work and was there for the photo ops.

The fourth National Candidate is this riding is Jared Evans, who is running for the Green Party. He is a 27 year old retail manager who has received a positive response at the debates. Pushing issues such as Animal rights cruelty legislation, environmentla sustainability, prorep voting, funding for post secondary education, and a sustainable economic system that includes tax shifting towards polluting businesses. As well as specific issues for the gay community, including removing the way gay and straight sex have different age limits and that gay men cannot donate blood in Canada without lying about their orientation.

While the Greens are often writen often, more so because they are shut out of the debates in favour of someone no one in the west can vote for and have limited funding, they have the most comprehensive platform of obtainable goals, and are the only party in this election who have a plan for Canada that goes beyond the next 18 months. Its a shame that short term promises of tax cuts or spending increases take precedent over long term health concerns (including prevention of asthma and longer term health risks)

They are socially liberal, but fiscally responsible. Vancouver Center is also one of the stronger Green ridings.

Prince George has changed over the years, 2 years ago I saw a couple of guys holding hands walking down the street, you would have not seen 5 years previous. PG did have a lot of people with intolerant attitudes until recently, and I think there was a burning cross at one time that turned out to be a prank by some kids.

My god, this election race is truely a national embarrassment.

Both Hedy anf Svend are a wee bit long in the tooth and carry lots of baggage. Why can't politicans just gently fade away, ike what's his name from Whalley world.

The conservative candidate may win by default, as people may just hold their noses and vote Conservative.

hedy = moron
svend = grandstanding grand larcenist
voters of vancouver centre = fools to consider either one of them.

I live in Vancouver Centre and am really unhappy with the "choices" this election. I'm even having trouble voting for the Greens out of protest (like I did last time) after reading the candidate's blurb on the Green web page: he couldn't string a sentence together and wrote "there is no 'I' in team" without a trace of irony ... =^)

...grand larcenist or grand arsonist...?

Sorry that was mean...and he was a young offender at the time. Still, it was a very telling foretaste of the psychology motivating his attention-seeking public life. Funny that the media never mentions what has been generally known in his community for years & years. To be fair, he's a hard-working & committed guy whose taken some gutsy stands. I just don't think we know the whole story on his mental state.

I had to chuckle at the Pumpjack being described as the most popular hangout in the gay village. Boy, things have gone downhill in the last 10 years! I can remember sitting on a packed patio at Spuntinos 24-hour coffee house under the outdoor heaters (Thurlow & Davie - now a Greek restaurant) at 3:00 AM after a night of hopping through the near-dozen gay clubs, pubs and cabarets that were then available to choose from. Where has the gay community gone anyways? It's moved onto the internet and the afterhours scene I guess.

The West End is routinely touted as the most concentrated gay population in Canada, but judging from the quantum shift to the 'burbs I've observed, I'd say that information is quite out of date (or at least on its way to becoming out of date).

Dan, thanks for pointing out the Green candidate. The guy the Greens ran in 2004 wasn't too strong (Mattu). Evans is a stronger candidate, much more conversant on the issues.

My partner & I tried to attend the Vancounver-Centre all-candidates debate on Wednesday at the Roundhouse. We were a few minutes late, and there was a big lineup at the door. A Liberal volunteer (a young guy) asked us if we were undecided voters, and said he could boot some of their volunteers out of their seats so we could come in. We didn't want to jump the lineup so we declined. But I wasn't sure about the propriety of the offer, or whether the audience should even have been stacked with so many Party operatives at the expense of "real" voters who couldn't get in.

They really should have selected a larger venue, because there were at least two dozen citizens waiting outside and many more who didn't stand around to wait.

intriguing post nightbloom; don't know anything about your reference to arson but i think i'd like to.
sounds like the west end was a gas back then.

I don't know, but somehow the thought of Hedy and Svend squared off against each other seems to typify the fundamental dilemma for the would be progressive, let alone radical left voter in this election.

The Neo-Conservatives may indeed win by default-, in fact I half expect a minority Con government, but for the politically aware "left" voter, of course, they are not even on the ballot. Given this reality, a consequence of Liberal corruption and NDP timidity and failure to develop an inspiring alternative Grand Vision, even "stragically" considering, all the choices are bad, bad, bad. The Devil is at our backs and the deep blue sea yawns open over the cliff before us.

Svend, whom I have previously admired politically, and even want to still, has in reality turned out to be just too, too much of a flake, like much of the queer mileau in which he is rooted. Ehhh, I have never pretended to buy into the prevailing "politically correct" view of queerdom. I simply have a kind of live and let live view of the issue. The human species, indeed all species to one degree or another, produce all manner of "mutations" and "off the rails" reproduction outcomes within it. I accept that as an unavoidable reality, to be lived with and at least tolerated, if not embraced.

And I speak of Svend for but one purpose here. One is free to think what they want on any matter. The issue is politics and strategic voting, I think, however.

And in order to keep the Neocons from governance of the nation, and like the BC Libs, the betrayals of "the people" and "the nation" one should know by now they will carry out, to me, it purely becomes again a "strategic issue" of who otherwise has the best chance of doing that. And not being in Vancouver Centre, indeed far removed from there, I have no way of assessing that.

Simply suffice it to say that this is purely how I would look at it, and I would vote Hedy, Svend or Green, whichever I thought had the best chance of achieving that defeat of the Conservatives. They are the real threat to the well being of my own blue collar strata within the working class and all other progressive professionals and poor strata therein as well. More, they are the main threat to the very sovereignty and unity of the nation as well.

I have held my nose many times in elections throughout my life. Indeed, I have become much accustomed to the stench that emanates therefrom.

The issue is not whether Svend dances on his toes with his fingers bedazzled with rings, or Hedy suffers visions of burning crosses, or that the Greens may even be but Progressive Conservatives dressed up as leprechauns, I think. It is about the need of progressive, moderate left and even radical left voters to vote strategically, for whichever or whatever that has the greater likelihood of keeping these Stockwell Day, Ron Erwinesque Neocon Wingnuts away from majority governance of the nation.

Yeah, Davie street used to be a real social centre for the gay community. And people actually talked to each other. I've heard a number of different opinions as to why things have changed so radically. Personally, I think the shift really started when the city decided to license the afterhours venues (non-alcohol cabarets) which have now become an irresistable centre of gravity that actually funnels people out of the 'mainstream' gay community and into the rave sub-culture. It's really hurt the bars & pubs and the "daylight" venues (café & restaurants) as a critical mass of the gay community (esp. the younger male segment) makes the switch from coffee & beer to GHB, cat tranquillizer & crystal meth (that sounds a little crusty of me, I know, but it's pretty exasperating to have to watch).

The arson thing - that has been known in Ottawa circles ever since Svend became a household name. He was picked up for setting fires by the RCMP as a teenager. All in all, it's not nearly as bad as what some kids get into today. It's the implications of the psychological profile of the teenage arsonist that fascinates me however. I think it says something about his makeup and the deeply driven nature of his career in the public life.

Image review,
Jack Layton used private clinic
Svend lights fires
It's the Jack thing that floors me. What a hypocrite.
Steven Harper, walking around with a mic in his hand, no podium, no notes, no props, relaxed, speaking freely, looking like a PM. I am so impressed.
Paul Martin, nervous, flustered, defeated, lying SOB, ping pong ball.
It's kinda interesting the momentum of the Con has allowed media and citizens to open up and feel free to express their true feelings about how they feel about the various parties.
It seems now, that if you want to be cool, you put down the Lib and love the Con.
I love the CBC coverage. They seem to already know who their new bosses will be.
Experts on CPAC see the writing on the wall and can now feel comfortable expounding on the virtues of Steven Harper. He is so cool. He has remained consistent and unflappable.
So you can all come out of the closet now and jump on the Conservative bandwagon.

The two biggest surprises in politics might be that attempted theft by Svend and those imaginary burning crosses Hedy screeched about in Parliament.

But Coyote, come on, that certainly wasn't very kind of you to refer to gay people as:

"The human species, indeed all species to one degree or another, produce all manner of "mutations" and "off the rails" reproduction outcomes."

May I remind you, Coyote, that a mutation is a nucleotide sequencing error. There is no evidence that homosexuality (or any other sexuality) is caused by a mutation, and your description of it puts you firmly into the camp of the worst kind of bigot--even to the right of Pat Robertson.

For you to be writing this kind of stuff is no less a shock to me than Hedy's burning crosses and Svend's attempted theft, as I have always attributed to you the highest degree of serious intellectuality.

NDP Candidate in Abbotsford just filed a Affidavit claiming the Liberal candidate tried to bribe him into putting NDP support to the Liberals

Nightbloom
My friend bought the coffeebar on Davies near the sandwich place quite a few years ago from the gay owners. He was Iranian and not really aware of the gay community. He was chastised for scrapping the rainbow flag off of the door without realizing what it meant. He was also vilified in the local gay press and boycotted. There was a lot of anger about a “gay” establishment being sold to a “hetro”
I had known this guy for years as he ran a coffee shop at Lonsdale Quay since it opened and he was not bigoted and would not knowingly piss off most of his customer base. He finally had to give up and sell at a loss.

Another friend of mine who is gay, said he was ashamed of the how the gay press treated him.

Latest Strategic Council Poll from today's Globe puts Harper with the mo. within a whisker of a majority.
Quote:

Pollster's seat projection puts Harper on cusp of a majority

By BILL CURRY

Friday, January 13, 2006 Page A1

OTTAWA -- The Conservative Party will come within a few seats of winning a majority government, if current levels of voter support hold up, according to projections by the Strategic Counsel.

The Liberal Party would form the Official Opposition but would have only about a dozen more MPs than the third-place Bloc Québécois, the projections suggest.

As for NDP Leader Jack Layton, his wife Olivia Chow might keep him company in the House of Commons, but his party's hopes of a large breakthrough in British Columbia appear unlikely.

The projections, which are calculated by running this week's Strategic Counsel poll of more than 3,500 Canadians through a mathematical formula, are that the Tories will win 152 seats on Jan. 23, followed by 74 for the Liberals, 60 for the Bloc and 21 for the NDP. There are 308 seats in the House, so a party needs 155 to form a majority.

"Is a majority possible? Absolutely. Is it probable? We don't know yet," said Allan Gregg, chairman of the Strategic Counsel.

The latest poll conducted Tuesday and Wednesday indicates the Conservatives have the support of 39 per cent of the electorate, compared with 27 per cent for the Liberals, 16 per cent for the NDP and 12 per cent for the Bloc. Conservative support in Quebec appears to have stabilized in recent days at 23 per cent, compared with 48 per cent for the Bloc Québécois, 18 for the Liberals and 8 for the NDP.

British Columbia is on track to elect 26 Tories, six Liberals, three NDP MPs and an Independent.

All 28 ridings in Alberta will go to the Conservatives.

Manitoba and Saskatchewan are not expected to change, once again electing a combined 20 Conservatives, four Liberals and four NDP MPs.

The Greater Toronto Area will elect 35 Liberals, eight Conservatives and two NDP MPs while the rest of Ontario will elect 49 Conservatives, four Liberals and eight New Democrats.

Montreal will have 21 Bloc MPs and seven Liberals, while the rest of Quebec will elect 39 Bloc MPs and eight Conservatives.

Atlantic Canada will elect 15 Liberals, 13 Conservatives and four NDP MPs.

All three seats in the territories will go to the Liberals.

night; when i was in my early 20's and partying in vancouver yaletown was still warehouses except for the gandy dancer, which was pretty outrageous for its time. good times back then hopping from bimini's to the cecil to the yale to the bombay bicycle club to the railway station etc. vancouver was open and alive and safe and beaucoup de fun. these days unfortunately i wouldn't know as i'm in the burbs and rarely get to venture in.

And, if you believe that poll, I have a bridge to sell you.

does it lead to a brighter future for all canadians?

elliot
You are making me feel old, I remember all those places. The railway club had great bands, if you could handle the smoke.

As a measure of values in our society, did you ever see such emphasis placed upon a stupid ring? On a goldarn chunk of metal?

Compare this: When nobody else would help her, Svend took on the challenge of accompanying Sue Rodriguez through her frightening journey out of pain, out of the horror of choking to death, and out of this life -- at the risk of his own future. He didn't send somebody else. He spent two weeks at her side, staying with her right to the last breath. It took a real human being to have done that.

It's not a matter of being "kind" or "unkind", Truman. It's a matter of how one reads and understands the scientific evidence.

While I almost never "knowingly" encounter the issue of homosexuality in my daily life, I know that statistically it is out there. And from time to time I read scientific literature on the subject. From which I have developed my own understanding of the issue-, which obviously, I believe is as accurate as it is currently possible to be. Subject to future science and discovery, of course, and not "faith based" notions from either right OR left.

Other than that, and an acceptance of the principle that one accepts and allow for differences on all fronts with folks, with a generally live and let live attitude-, and if I can accept some of the straight folks that marry, I can certainly accept other developmental types. And I do, without hesitation.

But ehh, I have my view and always say exactly what I think and how I perceive an issue. Which I much prefer to receive in kind from others as well.

But how I attempt to arrive at an understanding of anything, not always successfully, is , as accurate an interpretation of reality as possible and not mere sentiment, notions of political correctness, or simply the opinions of others, however well meaning. (Though I always do prefer well meaning persons over those who are not.)

In a general, day to day way, I have no problem accepting, or would have working or otherwise engaging with Svend or any other "queer" at all. (No worse a word than "straight", which I find probably about as equally "problematic" a word.) I will make common cause with anyone with whom I share an interest. Live and let live.

But like I say, I insist on my own read of things. Whatever others might think.

God, I hate polls. And Allan Gregg, out of University of Calgary, and former pollster of Brian Mulroney, must be dancing with joy as he concocts his dismal forecasts of Conservatives crawling up into the sunlight again.

I was listening to Bill Goode on CKNW this morning, a few Liberals called to express their dismay that polls are being published during the election campaign. Just because every single polling firm is showing a strong Conservative approval rate.
I am sure if they were showing the Lib in the lead we would not have heard from these people.
Now we have a story coming out that the Lib attempted to bribe the NDP candidate to throw his bid for election and send his supporters over to the Lib. What next ?
I say it's all over for the Lib and NDP.
And Redrivergirl, the poll you are discrediting is typical of every single polling firm. You are in denial, I am giddy with anticipation of a Conservative Govt.
Oh, the latest, the Lib have dumped their candidate in Abbotsford due to his bribery attempt I mentioned earlier.
Oh, by the way a little girl in Brantford lost her cat, Steven Harper was in Brantford that day. Did Steven Harper steal her cat, he won't say.
Hitler loved his dog, Steven Harper loves his dog. Is Steven Harper another Hitler ? He won't say.
It's been laughable watching the liberal left slit their wrists in frustration.

Amen, Mary.

Another reason I would not hesitate to vote for Svend, in perhaps other than this strategic election, where, I think, it is about who can actually hold back the Neocons. On the other hand, if Svend is that person, he would have my vote-, unhesitatingly.

That poll smacks of a Conservative Christmas wishlist. Sorry, Ron.

And, re all the Harper, cat stuff etc. Yest he was shown sitting holding a baby. He looked like he's never held a baby in his life! And, he has two children!

This visceral image that contrasts the genuine ease Martin has when nurturing (in spite of his many failings and I won't be voting liberal) and Harper who seems as if something is very wrong emotionally, to say the least, grabs people in an unconscious place. This may be just tv-q, but because of other aspects concerning him, I doubt it. I feel sorry for him because I believe that speaks to his childhood. Just as Martin had that loving and affectionate relationship with his dad, it is but the lottery of life.

Bottom line, I doubt if we'll see him in any gov't minority, or majority.

I would have been more forgiving towards Svend if he had declined the ten grand from the police because of a misjudgement on thier part.

Qualifier:

I feel sorry for him, but I am under no illusion that he can't hardly wait to inflict that pain on those vulnerable citizens in this country who can not take care of themselves, if he were to become pm. Which he won't.

can hardly wait.

you know, it's really disheartening to hear opinions concerning the theft and behaviour of svend. as a bi-polar person, i take umbrage with uneducated people who obviously know nothing about bi-polarism. their prejudices stand naked and exposed to those of us who have experienced odd behavior and the personal hell involved in finding the right medications. personally i now feel better than i felt before my brain injury(benign brain tumour) which caused my bi-polarism. why would you not believe svend? question yourselves and try hard to look inward. are you in fact biased towards something you don't understand or is it his sexual orientation? you may come out of asking yourself these questions a better person, a little wiser. no matter who you vote for, vote. but do not be so insensitive to others because of what you have no knowledge of. be kind, be quiet, until you really have thought something through and maybe a little research. robert furness

Redrivergirl
Your pathetic attempts to demonize Mr. Harper are wrong headed. He is not evil, he cares about Canada, that's why he's running for Prime Minister. BC deputy health minister Penny Ballem has predicted that if health care spending continues ti rise by 8% per year, as it is now, that in 2117 it will be 71% of BC's budget compared to 41% today.
Somebody has to address this. The NDP would make it even worse, the Lib have no vision.
Imagine us trying to run education and everything else on 29% of our budget ?
You would be smart to throw your support to the Con if you want any kind of future at all.

So we should vote for Svend out of guilt? Give me a break. Besides, Svend claims to be suffering from depression, which is different than bi-polar disorder. It matters not. He was too sick to remain as an MP, but well enough to endure all the agitation of litigation resulting from his participation in a public disturbance. Sorry, but I think Svend is victimizing us this time.

On Polls:

I agree with red river girl to some extent in being sceptical about polls. Well, specifically the ones claiming to project seats won. Those types of polls got it very wrong last time, although Gregg claims the situation this time makes the figures more reliable (eg. the "new" Conservative party did not have a track record from prior elections last time to use in seat projections. This time they do.)

And, the final polls published last election predicted a Harper minority. Pollsters later claimed a literal last minute Lib surge caught pollsters off guard, which might be true, but it revealed how quickly sentiment can change and polls become obsolete.

Unfortunately, every recent poll points to
a Harper lead, and a growing one.
The mo. is still all with Harper. I hope we get a last minute reversal again this time, but
Harper looks stronger this time than last.

Perhaps most telling is that (if the Globe is to be believed), Libs are now quietly conceding defeat and are looking ahead to a leadership contest to replace Mr. Dithers.

THE ELECTION
Some Liberals brace for the worst

By MICHAEL DEN TANDT AND CAMPBELL CLARK
GLOBE AND MAIL
Friday, January 13, 2006 Page A1

OTTAWA -- With 10 days to go in the federal election campaign, some veteran Liberals are openly conceding defeat, while others have begun quietly laying the groundwork for a leadership contest they believe will "renew" the party.

At the same time, senior Liberals are undertaking what amounts to a pre-election postmortem on Paul Martin's two-year tenure as Prime Minister and the current campaign.

"People are talking to me and saying, 'Well, who do you think can do well,' " former Liberal cabinet minister Herb Dhaliwal said. "I think if Paul Martin is defeated, he'll have no choice but to leave, particularly if there's a strong minority for the Conservatives."

Good article. Hedy got in some nice slaps -- not bad on her feet, you have to admit.

The more I read about Svend, and particularly anything by his defenders ("anyone can make a mistake"), the more depressing it is.

Is the NDP, the party I used to assume was my natural ideological home, really reduced to this? Svend is not the bottom of the barrel, he is the miscellaneous drippings underneath.

Do you think Colin Thatcher is looking forward to getting back in Parliament? He made a mistake too!

I lived in the riding represented by Sven in the 1980's. Time and again he was elected by large majorities because even if the district electorate vote differently at the provinical level there were many who viewed his role in Ottawa as hardworking for those who were/are excluded from our imaginary Canada, a country which inspired the author of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and yet still denied the full interpretation of those Rights to many in this country. I was one who was greatly disappointed by his criminal breach of public trust since for years I respected what I believed to be his genuine sincerity. However, his momentary lapse is something I accept as a result of stress and his described bipolar disorder. Compared to so many in politics who calmly and with invidious private calculation deceive the public over a long period this is peanuts. Svend to my mind has always been in the public eye, something I think most of us could never tolerate over the long haul. He worked 24/7 for his constituents and I do believe that once again he will serve the interests of those living on the fringe with as much energy and commitment as ever...maybe even more so now.

OMG, Herb Dhaliwal gets the last laugh. Poor old Herb, while he was out of the country and his wife was dying, the Paul Martin team called in the Basi Boys to wipe him off the slate ... now the 3 top Basi Boys go on trial 24 April 2006 and it looks as if Herb Dhaliwal has lived to welcome in another Prime Minister. A Liberal p.m., I hope. Or ...

If we could only sit on Paul Martin's chest and get him to promise to undo some of that awful stuff he did to get the Liberal leadership. That, if you ask me (and I know that you didn't) is where everything started to go so badly wrong.

Colin - I remember precisely the episode you're referring to. What the gay press did was deeply unfair, and reflected negatively on the community. Did anyone ever apologize for the, by the way?

I can recall many instances of bullying behaviour by Xtra West (Vancouver's gay newspaper) towards some downtown businesses when it was under managing editor Gareth Kirkby (he now runs the Ottawa paper unfortunately - Capital Xtra). He caused quite a few gratuitous dust-ups, and people were genuinely happy to see him go.

Xtra West also used to publicly target community members who didn't tow the party line. But they calmed down quite a bit after there was a bit of a backlash in the community. If I remember correctly, Xtra West’s meddling was largely responsible for the resignation last year of the head of the Davie Street Business Association (which is now effectively synonymous with the bar lobby). Nevertheless, the paper has gotten somewhat better since Robin Perelle took over about a year ago. At least the garish sex-focused covers have been replaced with artistic cover art that is less of an eyesore at the bus stops and newsstands.

Kirkby used to get quite vitriolic not just towards straight businesses in the Village, but even towards other gay people (for example, his repeated and obsessive attacks on religious-minded gay people were absolutely nauseating). He also suppressed any public criticism of the gay drug scene when it first started to get out of control (and we're paying for it now). In fact, he used to use the paper as a platform to defend "gay" drug dealers each time the VPD tried to rein-in the dealer-network that operates in and around gay social space downtown (and which gets a little too comfortable with itself & somewhat out of the control from time to time if left alone for to long in the context of such an insulated community). I mean good grief.

Vancouver Magazine ran a story about a year and a half ago, featuring written contributions from successful gay professionals about their experiences as gay people in a straight world. Douglas Coupland is widely acknowledged as having been the author of one of the anonymously-published entries. He articulated very much the same criticism of the gay press and the ideologically-driven operatives who make use of it. He made some very incisive observations that you don't usually hear in the gay community.

Along with Toronto's Xtra, Canada's three english-language gay papers are owned by Pink Triangle Press. They're not so much professional journalists as they are political operatives (NDP or hard-Left), social-welfare activists, and a smattering of free radicals. By and large, the gay press fulfills three functions: (1) it promotes ideology and collective identity; (2) it advertises sex services (bathhouses, phonelines, etc.); (3) it promotes club-culture, dance venues/events and circuit parties (the most effective means of fundraising in the gay community by far).

The blogger phenomenon has given a voice to segments of the community that were previously marginalized & voiceless, but I’m reserving judgement on how much of an impact this relatively new development will have on the ambient culture.

I consider Colin thatcher the epitome of "invidious private calculation"

This is waaaaay out of line. You must have a pretty big hate-on for Svend.

eddie haskel. do you usually have to read something more than once? i didn't say vote for svend. i didn't suggest voting for anyone. read my comment again. perhaps i'll have to blame the media on this one, but on a report on newsworld(cbc) and some statements i heard elsewhere, svend claimed to be bi-polar. so eddie, don't vote out of guilt and perhaps calm down when you read something.

Macfur... how do you know I'm not bi-polar? I'm just saying that the mutual understanding thing is two way street. Anything less is the old victim game.

BC mary

It was the act of stealing the ring and how he came across after the fact. This type of theft is usually a cry of help from someone who has suppressed a problem they refuse to deal with.

Although rings have always held a significance, beyond their monetary value in our history and mytholgy

Svend did have a good rep with his constituents, puzzling they didn’t leave him in his old riding, or perhaps they felt their new candidate would do better there and Svend to play the gay card here.

Of course if he was muttering “my precious, my precious, I won’t let them take my precious” then we have a whole other issue to deal with.

Skip: I started at Burnaby North in 79, when Svend was a newbie MP, and was duly impressed by this famed alum (he came to our grad in 84). I was more impressed when he came out as gay, and appreciated his political skill and the good works coming out of his constituency office. Svend is the only politician that impressed me enough to make me dig into my own pocket, so I cut him a cheque for his leadership campaign.

I started to question his sense during that campaign, when he threw in the towel for that bucktoothed nobody, guaranteeing another few years of a futile, pointless federal NDP with no serious aspirations to govern.

But I didn't hate him and I still don't. It's just that he should not be running for anything, except for exercise in the prison yard.

Thanks nightbloom, I find your posts quite fascinating to read.

nightbloom
here is another aspect of the gay community that dose not fit the PC image.

http://www.bc-lowermainland.pinkpistols.org/

mcfur; you should be insulted by svend's claim that he's bi-polar. he is full of shite and was covering his tracks immediately after the event, even to the point of asking his dentist for records to show that he had been grinding his teeth a lot in the period leading up to the theft. this guy is shameless and will do anything to win another seat and stay in the spotlight. both he and hedy the moron have been sucking off the hind teat of gov't for too long and should go out and find a real job. neither one of them deserves another chance.

Nightbloom says the Xtra employees are not journalist but political operatives. What an absurd statement. If that is the case then whole Canwest Global media are the same. They are the propaganda arm of the Conservative Party.

One reason to vote for a visible and active activist for our social safety net is that if the polls are correct, we'll have three levels of neo-con gov't. At least here in Vancouver and anywhere else the municipal party is uber right. Sven is one of the few politicians that can get press to express the wrongs that would be sure to follow. Another reason we need more NDP in general.

He stands up for the underdog, not on them. Like some other politicians we know.

It keeps getting better all the time. Now Tony Valeri the Liberal MP from Hamilton is on the hot seat.
Apparently he purchased a property in Hamilton last April for $225,000.00. Three months later he sold it to John Ng for $500,000.00.
Way above assessed value.
Who is Jonn Ng ? He is a big time Liberal supporter.
Is this profit a campaign donation ?
What more sleeze will we see come out ? This is an avalanche of bad news for the Liberals, will anyone vote for them ? I see disaster for the criminal organization and I am delighted as you can imagine.

I agree Martin's successful "coup" against the Chretien Emperorship also planted the seeds of Dithers' own undoing, as BC Mary suggests.

Having the Lib house divided into Martinites and ostracized Chretienites hardly sets the stage for a return of a strong Lib gov't.

Conspiracy theorists even accuse Chretienites of quietly working behind the scenes (eg.leaking some of the newest embarrassing info/scandals)to help make sure Martin loses. But the plan assumes a Harper MINORITY only, so a Chretienite can potentially win the Lib leadership and run in another election soon, maybe '07. But a Harper majority would ruin the "counter-revolutionary" strategum!

...As for Svend's criminal mind, what kind of thieving criminal turns himself in when he hasn't even been caught?
Or, assuming, as he claims, security cameras were there in plain view (making Svend in plain view), what kind of criminal commits a crime in full knowledge that he will surely be caught?

I tend to accept the explanation that a bipolar condition allowed an irrational act.
(Bipolar people, untreated, can commit some awfully strange acts in their manic phase).

I agree that comparing Svend's admitted to ring theft to Colin Thatcher's never admitted to murder of his ex-wife, is absurd.
Has Yammer gone manic and off his meds, maybe?

Yammer wrote:

Which is fine...but making the stretch from petty thief to murderer suggests otherwise. And "Bucktoothed Nobody"?
Oh, I guess that's OK. I like to refer to conservatives as "Puffy, Meat-Faced, Porcine Lumps".

As for the latest Ron Erwin premature crowing moment: Yeah? Just you wait til the Porcine Lumps are forced to reveal their venal activities. Biped = corrupt. Period. To suggest the Harper Regime will live up to its promises of transparency and cleanliness in its dealings is to ignore all of human history.

Jack Layton was just on Adler trying to explain himself as to why he used a PRIVATE clinic for his medical care.
I knew he would reassure us that there was a logical explanation for his actions.
He said that he didn't know it was a PRIVATE facility, his Dad told him to go there.
Nice explanation Jack, I am sure Stuart, BC Mary and Redrivergirl will believe his story. Blind faith goes a long way.

I hate gay people so much I am willing to vote conservative and spend hundreds of dollars a month on health insurance.

I find it amazing you can get people to vote against their own best interests with a few hot button issues.

Mel - I am painting with a broad brush, no doubt about it, but it rings true when you look at how the gay press handles political issues generally as well as the specific hot-button issues affecting the community. There's a consistent spin that is delivered time & again. The recent civic election coverage is a case in point, but it's actually a lot deeper than that. It has to do with the highly politicized atmosphere surrounding AIDS, sex and drug issues in the community, and the perpetual need to tailor the coverage & argumentation in order to compliment the financial grant-getting efforts of the community's service-providing agencies. It's really hard to break out of that box. In a manner of speaking, we're a satellite of the social-welfare, healthcare, and pharmaceutical systems. It's all about the money. I'm painting in unnuanced primary colours here, because it's too complex to illustrate here.

Having said that, there are some real talents in the gay press. Michael Harris (an Xtra West columnist) is creating an interesting niche for himself as an arts-&-entertainment commentator. He's witty & fresh, and sufficiently well-read to occasionally punctuate his writing with stimulating cultural, literary & historical references. In fact, I noticed he has a piece in the Review insert of today's Globe and Mail on the Vancouver live music scene (check it out). But the sad fact of gay journalism is that even a talented writer like him has to write outside of the gay community to publish serious commentary. His column in Xtra West is nothing more than juvenile sex-scenario fiction intended solely for soft-core erotic titillation (although he gets subversive on his editors every once in a while and mixes it up a bit).

So it's not all bad...but they never let anything get in the way of their established core priorities, which I ennumerated above.

Holy shit - Mel, I had no idea from your earlier post. You just plummetted right to the bottom of the barrel in my books.

Are you taking medication for that? You certainly should be.

I think I missed the joke, didn't I Mel...

Yes you did.

Colin - I'd never heard of Pink Pistols before. That's hilarious! You're right - it's not something you'd normally associate with the gay community! I wonder how big their membership is.

I guess Ron has never lived in Toronto and while I am not a federal NDP supporter, the Schuldice clinic is a non-profit centre specializing in hernia operations just about everyone in Toronto who needs that type of surgery goes there or are referred there. Someone could correct me but I think this item has raised its' head previously, methinks the conservatives thought they might have a good leak there. I think Jack can be forgiven on this one.
As to Svend, well he has served his time in office and truly he should consider that now might be a good time in his life to offer other services to the public perhaps working with an NGO or one of the many, many lobby groups that are about to spring up. While I did not always agree with him on the issues, I appreciate the fact that he did stick his neck out there and did represent his riding from what I understand, very well.

To Nightbloom;
I did try to respond on the other article, but it was too long. However, I did read some of your subsequent thoughts, gotta say you're to rational and I'm too emotional and I suspect you may well have blown apart my response. Ah well perhaps one day when my partner & I are intown (we live in Nina's riding - you know the invisible MP) we'll run into you at Mary's

In a post awhile back, in another thread, I said that I thought it entirely possible the Liberals, or a significant element within it, might want to actually lose this election. As hard as that is to believe, it is not entirely unknown. I was not kidding.

It would provide the Liberals a chance to reorganize after all the scandals and loss of credibility they have gone through, for one. Which they more and more obviously need.

It would also, however, achieve quite another thing which has been on even that part of the neoconservative agenda which the Liberals have shared. And from the time of Martins first stepping over the corpse of Chretien, Martin and the Liberals have shown signs of want to embrace major parts of the neocon agenda, from health care to sovereignty of the nation. (Only the election changed at least the appearance of that, as it has similarly changed the "appearance" of Harper and the Conservatives.)

As the Liberals too rejected the GST, once the Conservatives under Mulroney were allowed to bring it in, upon their being discredited thereby, the Liberals swept to power upon the Conservative's fall from public grace and quietly carried on and left the GST exactly where the Conservatives had put it. Ditto NAFTA and its so-called Free Trade.

Likewise, the Liberals, before Martin's sudden re-discovery of Canadian nationalism during this election, have been steadily pursuing feeding from the US Empire hand and pursuing greater and greater US-Canada "harmonization": Code for deep political and economic integration into the US Empire. It has seemed of late however, that the Liberals have arrived at place where they are hesitant, even unsure or reluctant about the wisdom of proceeding to finally close and conclude the final stages of this "deep integration" programme.

Now it's possible, of course, that they have had a change of heart and their consciences have suddenly begun to bother them. A prospect which I consider unlikely in the extreme, in that they have long been the first choice party of Corporate Canada, and deep integration is precisely what this ruling class wants, overwhelmingly.

The greater likelihood is that they are fearful of the political consequences of finally and completely carrying out this final stage of the deep integration process, and coming to be seen as the betrayers of the Canadian nation by its citizens. Perhaps even never seeing the light of day again, serving ruling class power. They may even be hearing the lonely winds of the political wilderness, with which I am much familiar :-), blowing across its featureless plains, and feel its haunting chill to their very core.

But there is a solution. Collude in a backhand way, with scandal and sudden ineptitude, with the Corporate and Public media even getting on board, and lay the opportunity for a period of Conservative power. Let them take the heat for the further and final betrayal of the nation, and once this death sentence on Caesar has been carried out, reap the benefit of a future election reaction against the traitors of what had bee much loved, in retreating memory, if neglected. The dirty deed done and a mere fact of life, the new reality becomes the new starting point, never to return, like the GST and like NAFTA, to what was. Ruling class success to the right, to the left of us, and ahead, one Greater US Empire indivisible.

Another Liberal success story, tarnished only by the blame attached to others. :-) Which be the fate awaiting ye Conservatives? :-)

To Mel in Calgary;
I'm right along with Nightbloom had to read your post twice before the light went on duhhh. It's all this damn rain it's dulling the thought process.

As an aside, we have friends in New Orleans who run a business identical to ours, their private medical insurance is $600 each per month providing no pre-existing conditions. Ouch, that hurts competitiveness when costing out the export containers. Thank god, there is only the two of them.
They used to be Log Cabin Republicans, after Katrina they said something about hell freezing over before voting that way again.

Um, nice conspiracy theory and an enjoyable read, Coyote. If only people were actually that clever and able to co-operate.

Serious commentary? About pop music? Like the 'serious' commentary about pole dancing and male strippers? Mainstream and done to death.

I see Harper is related to Ricky of trailer park boys fame.

I love this as a "just deserts" story...till I contemplate what the outcome will mean:

Jan. 13, 2006
PETER POWER/TORONTO STAR
LINDA DIEBEL
STAFF REPORTER

COULD IT BE BYE-BYE BELINDA?

Belinda Stronach, Liberal star and erstwhile Conservative, is in trouble in her riding of Newmarket-Aurora. In a winter campaign as bizarre as the balmy weather, she's got two rather large problems — voters are smouldering over her decision to cross the floor, even as they are warming up to her former boss, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper.

Quel irony. If the surge to Harper's Conservatives remains constant — and the trend is as apparent in Newmarket-Aurora riding as the polls show in other 905 ridings — she could find herself swept out of the Commons on election night. It would be a high price to pay for having joined Prime Minister Paul Martin's Liberals, accepted a cabinet post and lost a boyfriend (Harper deputy Peter MacKay) along the way.

"I will be real surprised if she wins," said Brigitte Nazmi, who listens to her customers at Paul's Barber Shop in Aurora. "People tell me they voted for her and then she shifted. Maybe if she'd gone independent, it would have been a different story. Now, my personal view is that the Conservatives are better for the country, but I'm telling you straight what I'm hearing."

Outside on a snowless Yonge St., Tara Jenks said she will vote Conservative for the first time on Jan. 23 because "voting for Belinda would be condoning what she did, and she wasn't elected as a Liberal."

I don't know, her dad is pretty respected in that riding.

One thing a liberal loss would do is shake those neo-con apples right out of the tree.

Well, I don't ascribe to a conspiracy as deep and wide as Coyote seems to be outlining,with a plan to meld Canada solidly with the US , but I do believe it's very possible, if not likely, a number of Chretienites are doing their bit to make sure Martin loses, so their "new man" (whom ever that might be ) stands a chance of knocking off a minority governing Harper round about '07.

I don't doubt there is sufficient hatred of Martin by many Chretienites that they'd place their own party's immediate fortunes lower on their priorities list than that of dumping Martin - at any cost. They hate him for his coup against their fearless leader, for the Gomery Inquiry, and for cutting most of them loose.

Warren Kinsella's (Liberal, Chretienite) blog is full anti-Martin vitriol. He's just the kind of smear monger who'd be more than happy to volunteer for the Liberal "counter-revolutionary" army for behind the scenes missions.And there are many more like him. It's bloody.

Maybe Belinda's Dad still has the respect of
area residents, but that may not help Belinda much if she's viewed as a turncoat by voters who voted Conservative, not Liberal last time.

What the heck are "neo con apples", rrg?
Do you mean their true colours will be on full display, and Cdns. won't like what they see?

To Bobb999
I suspect that your assessment is correct. There are just too many leaks and wierd things happening with the Liberal campaign that cannot be explained in any other way. It does indeed look like an internal coup perhaps to try to salvage the Chretien legacy.

It looks like Martin is about to take the fall for Chretiens' failings in the same way that Kim Campbell did for Mulroney.

I think that is exactly what redrivergirl means.

It's kind of a small play on words, shaking a tree so the apples drop, what falls out of a tree when it is shaken - often something hiding, and 'bad apples', etc, implying the libs were infiltrated by the neo-cons and that if they lose the election, those neo-cons, bad apples will abandon ship. To mix a metaphor.

You could be right about Ms Stronach, we'll see. I thought that had been a liberal riding before, but I can't remember right now.

That's very true, Stan.

Bobb, the neo-cons don't want to merge Canada and the US. They want both countries so fractured that they are rendered impotent.

The first thing Harper would do in a minority is align with Duceppe and Campbell etal to give them more power and take away power from the federal gov't. Look what B is doing over the border and with illegal immigration. Believe me, this is one big scam and fraud perpectuated by people without empathy and without conscience.

To Redrivergirl:

In May, 1995 in speaking to the NCC Mr. Harper said:

In a 1990 essay in the now defunct West magazine, Barry Cooper, (Tom) Flanagan's closest departmental pal, advised Quebec separatists that if they were heading for the federal exit, they'd better get on with it--, or, as he now sums it up, "The sooner those guys are out of here the better"

To clarify, Tom Flanagan is the main advisor and confident/mentor of Steven Harper.

This is just a theory but, it would seem to me that a catalyst for Quebecs' departure would be a Triple E Senate which would effectively diminish their power in a federal system. From Harpers' earlier speeches, it would appear that he would have no qualms about a weak national government with ever more limited powers.

And finally a quote from Sinclair Stevens who has no apparent love loss for Mr. Harper

No wonder Bernard Lord was beaming after a meeting with Harper.

Yep. Without social programs and department of oversight/regulation and social research, and everything privatized, we won't need much gov't at all.

Crooks and sociopaths, in my view.

Ah well, one small consolation is that Campbell's gov't will be recalled if the Cons get in. Another unintended consequence for them will be people wanting some check and balance and will absolutely recall enough ridings to ensure the provincial gov't will speak up for them. It's only a few anyway, right?

I am quite sure Sullivan will find himself in a whole pile of trouble sooner than later and so municipally in Vancouver, there probably won't be too much to worry about.

But, it isn't over, til it's over. I have great difficulty really believing Canadians will go for Harper, in spite of he and the Cons not telling the truth in exactly the same way Campbell lied. I really can't see it.

On the "apples",now I get it... At first I thought you meant if Harper wins, Conservative apples would start revealing unpleasant realities about a Conservative agenda.

If Lib neo cons abandon ship, I wonder if some of them would join up with the "new boss", Harper.
I see Stan's found some juicy quotes that support a weaken and fracture agenda.
I imagine Cdns may soon be regretting putting Harper into the PMs office, even though there were more than enough pre-election clues that should have warned voters away from him.

When I mentioned Kinsella, I hadn't read his blog for today but if THIS doesn't peg him as a
member in good standing of the Lib counter revolutionary army (and that he's not alone)...

[From Warren Kinsella's Blog]:

January 13, 2006 - "You may have seen this Globe and Mail front page yarn already, but I post it here (a) in case you didn't and (b) because it is important.

Its bottom line: Paul Martin must go.

Having destroyed the tradition of loyalty within the Liberal Party of Canada, and ultimately the Liberal Party of Canada itself, the Martinis can now say nothing - nothing - when others do what they did to Jean Chretien. There can be no loyalty to a "leader" who became the walking, talking personification of treachery.

The best line comes from a former Paul Martin cabinet colleague - and a guy who (as he demonstrated a couple days ago, when he was on a CTV panel with Sheila Copps and I) is no fan of Stephen Harper - named Herb Dhaliwal:

"I think if Paul Martin is defeated, he'll have no choice but to leave."

That's not bitter, axe-to-grind Warren saying that, folks. It's one of Paul Martin's former cabinet colleagues.

There'll be more in the next few days. Believe it. "

To Bobb999 and Redrivergirl:

I will give the Conservatives full credit for this campaign. They came out quick and hard from day one. This campaign is almost identical to the BC Lib. campaign in '96. Keep the candidates silent, avoid debates wherever you can. Especially keep the weak or mouthy candidates quiet. As proof, I offer Cheryl Gallant from the Ottawa Valley who in the past have never been short of words and of course our very own local Nina Grewall who seem afraid to debate Brenda Locke the Liberal candidate, at least without Gurmant whispering in her ear. In point of fact, in the latter case, out of the 8 or so possible meetings, Nina has avoided 6.
I know in '96 we had a heck of a time to get the BC Libs to come out and play.

ps- who knows maybe the BC Libs will change their name to the Conservatives shortly to avoid any confusion.

Some MLA's will end up being recalled, that's a given whatever their name is! Another year + to go and if Harper is PM and starts to implement his agenda, it's goodbye to the Campbell gov't.

And for sure, it is much a tongue in cheek "conspiracy theory". :-)

But..., not entirely, at a particular level.

I do think deep integration of Canada and the US is the objective, has been the objective of both countries' ruling classes, basically throughout and after the Cold War period. The policy has been to draw closer and closer together. But there are problems with it, especially of late, not in the least, signs that the US Empire may be in serious economic difficulty (Watch the housing bubble, and the national indebtedness of the US with the world, at astronomic and potentially destroying levels, currently fueled by Iraq, if folks start calling in US dollars and paper.Especially China.), and if Iraq and their Middle East policy fails, which similarly has the potential of itself, to bring the entire PNAC dream of Empire down in ruins, US power globally and Israel along with it. (It is the reason for their desparation to hang on, at all costs-, working class youth of Amerika wise.)

But we shall have to see, to be sure.

There is growing nervousness however, about just what the potential collapse of the US Empire might mean and hold in store for the future and prospects of the entire capitalist world system. Europe is especially reticent and nervous, but also both "official" and "street level" Canada. And the nervousness is warrented.

That's the fly in the ointment.

Meanwhile, this country (governance) and our (economic) ruling class has been and continues pursuing deep economic integration, military and State harmonization/integration policies with the Empire, and fundamentally remains committed to that "free trade" course. Though the NAFTA experience has shaken that some. And what may be coming together around this election, and out of the internal rivalries within the Liberals, their scandals, twixt the old Liberalism versus the tentative steps the Martinites were taking before the election towards reaching out to neoconservatism and neocon policy, is the "objective" convergence of a number of these elements and interests within the Liberals and the Conservatives, tending to drive things toward an at least temporary implosion of the Liberals and a victory for the Conservatives.

Continued next post...

And make no mistake, there are those elements within the Liberal Party, (and likely though not certainly even some lesser elements within the NDP, which has itself shifted dramatically right of recent years, and has its own right wing), who, it was even reported in the Globe and Mail of recent days, are of the position a Conservative victory is inevitable and possibly even desirable, as an aid to their own future political faction fortunes. (That's about the Liberals these reports, not the NDP. There I merely speculate, having "some" familiarity with the NDP right wing. Who would dearly love to really occupy the political place and policy positions of the current Liberals. They would dearly like to supplant the Liberal Party.)

And one of the main planks, even in a minority position, which the Cons are likely to pursue, if not necessarily succeed at, with Stockwell Day as Foreign Minister, if this is actually a serious Con intent as reported, in addition to further strengthening the "private market forces" grip on health and other social policies they have to tolerate at all, is going to be moving further towards at least "deeper" integration with the US. (And the rich will get their tax cuts before the end of a Conservative mandate.)

So what I had suggested "might" come to pass as a kind of conspiracy design, is only likely the course we are still on anyway, only more as a result of the more simple chaos theory of politics and submission to the principle of class interests tending to follow the practice of "path of least resistance lead me on", and of course, the herd practice of the lower class, of "giving unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

The result in the end, I suggest, will be the same: further moves towards "deep integration", read "harmonization".

The Conservatives, while less dangerous as a minority government, which I think is the greater likelihood, if at all, assuming I read the tea leaves correctly, a dangerous assumption for sure, will still pursue, in smaller bites the neoconservative policy set. If, however, they succeed at pulling of a majority, the situation suddenly becomes qualitatively different and more dangerous to the nation and "the people's" interests.

Then in there somewhere also, of course, is the law that Neocons are attracted to the greater "Bully Power" They are the ones gathered around a schoolyard fight, cheering on whoever is on top, and kicking whoever is on the bottom, already being pummeled.

If the US Empire ever comes to find itself on the bottom, however, all bets are off.

This little quote is from a literary discussion. It's talking about the lack of creative invention in books but I think it says a lot about where exactly we are at in this present election and...

About the obstacles of creating anything
really new...the rarity of original thought...in all the political parties, in their leaders, and yup, mostly in ourselves. How we all keep buying the same old thing in all its so-called new improved forms...with the same old disastrous results.

The media is just as guilty..a pack of followers largely with hardly a good question asked yet in this election...one that hopefully would have broken the ever-thickening fascist ice surrounding us...and revealed the chilling future that awaits this country if the neo-cons under any political stripe take control:

"We get sequels and serializations because we, the buying market, buy them. And we do it because of the lemming instinct. Because of the risk and the hardship of discovering a new author . We'd prefer to stay the course with a known, if diminished, quantity. We follow one book after the other right over the edge. "

Redrivergirl wrote:

Crooks and sociopaths, moles and warts . . .

http://www.rabble.ca/images/cartoons/constable/makeover.html

Empathy . . . conscience . . . hmm . . . donuts . . .

The meek shall inherit the Earth,
but not its mineral rights.
-- J. Paul Getty

Never open the door to the lesser evil, for other and greater ones invariably slink in after it.
-- Baltasar Gracian

It's not that hard.

It goes to Svend. This week even more so than last.

We do have something new here. You all know my conservative bias. And to StanM I respond to you, yes you are right, who are our BC Liberals ?
Christie Clark is married to Paul Martins chief political agent in BC. She resigned from our Liberals. She tried to run for mayor of Vancouver and her campaign failed. I am not familiar enough with Vancouver politics to understand why Sam defeated her, but I know it's a good thing he did.
Imagine of The Lib had a beachhead in Vancouver. I shudder at the thought. Thank God this didn't happen.
What are the remaining politicians in the BC Lib representing ? I don't know.
But I support their basic position of fiscal responsibility.
The election is going fine for me, you can bet your bottom dollar on that.

Dear All,
Lets not forget that both Harper and Martin have their share of social conservatives. Most noteworthy in the Liberal Party is Tom Wappel in Toronto who is strongly anti-gay and Paddy Tornsey. So, its not accurate to paint Harper's members as a right wing nut--they are in both main parties. The only difference is that the new CPC has a stronger social conservative element. Only the NDP is a socially liberal party, IMO.

I notice nobody has mentioned Tony Fogarassy.
Who is this guy anyway that Hedy is afraid of? He could come up the middle between between Hedy and Fry if the Conservatives' National campaign keeps gaining momentum but I personally doubt it. My guess is that Hedy will still take Vanc. Centre unfortunately. She always seems to find a way to win. On the Strategic Council poll, it gives only 3 seats to the NDP in BC. That's just ridiculous even to a non-NDP supporter like myself. Layton's Party will certainly pick up Victoria, the BC Southern Interior and likely Surrey North(Chuck Cadman's old riding). The NDP has a strong chance to take Vanc. Kingsway too now that Chinese voters there are disillusioned with Marti's Liberals over his sudden flip flop over the Head Tax--IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ELECTION! That should guarantee a minimum of 9 NDP seats. Layton's Party may possibly lose Skeena to the resurgent Conservatives and fail to capture Esquimalt--since the Tory candidate there is has a strong campaign and is a popular CFB veteran--but the NDP is also very competitive in New West Coquitlam and Vanc Isld North. Layton would have at least 8-9 seats for the NDP. So, the Strategic Council projection for the NDP is not very accurate in its regional snapshot. My view here is that the Conservatives and NDP will be feasting on the Federal Liberal's BC ridings on January 23.

With which I basically agree, but then I would not classify the Greens as being "social conservatives" either. While having become much an instrument of some more "liberal" elements from the old Progressive Conservative Party, my read of them is generally more to that small "l" liberal side, with all the inherent contradictions of that. On the other hand, that is much my characterization of the NDP as well.

Other than for the Conservatives, who may be about to benefit from a very particular political situation, being the implosion of the official Liberals, all other parties are more like each other than they are much different. What differences do exist are more minutia and class sectoral appeal than any real substance.

It's why, with this more real assessment of flawed capitalist democracy, as I would characterize it, one can actually talk about voting strategically, rather than for the party per se. The opposition to the Conservatives at least are more fractions of one small "l" liberal party. (The real neocons within all parties will be voting Conservative this time, is my bet.)

And strategic voting, in my view, is but mere stalling for time, denying majority governance to the Conservatives, and attempting to restrict their freedom of movement politically, and to do more serious damage otherwise. It assumes however, that someplace in time soon, a more clearly progressive and radicalized alternative to ALL current "official" politics will emerge, and fight for a place in the economic and political governance landscape of the nation.

Before it all flies completely south. Which is where it is headed.

" It's the charter stupid " , I remember the last Liberal convention that took place previous to the last election. Smug 'Young Liberals ' wore this button and waved placards with these words and mocked us conservatives , trying to belittle us over the same sex marriage issue. It really pissed me off at the time. It's is so ironic that this stupid charter, that the Lib seemed to be able to use as a weapon against us, may be the undoing of their entire evil empire.
The PM appeal to Steven Harper during the debate to support him with the idea of deleting the Not Withstanding Clause, completely out of the blue, may turn out to be his biggest blunder during this campaign.
I couldn't be happier you dweebs, I wonder if any of those buttons are still around, I will pay $25.00 for one if anyone has one. I would wear it proudly with another button below it that said " I told you this would bring up polygamy ".
What a bunch of young twits you are. Pack your bags and move to Venezuela you stupid, immature and wrong idiots.
Section 15 of the charter doesn't include gays as a species anyway. Now we have polygamy to deal with. Thanks you losers.

Go Harper Go!

I think it's ingorant to predict what a Harper government will actually do. The truth is, he deserves this opportunity to govern.

Paul Martin and the Libranos have lost the moral authority to govern. Give Harper a chance. If we end up with soldiers on our street and jailing homosexuals, then turf him next election.

I have a feeling a conservative government will well liked once the dust settles.

A vote for the Liberals is unconscionable.

My predictions for the Surrey 4 Ridings:

Liberals - 2 - Brenda Locke & Sukh Dhaliwall
Conservatives - 1 - unfortunately Russ Hiebert
NDP - 1 - Penny Priddy

Reasons:
Brenda Locke
- Has proven track record in government, lives in the riding and Surrey for over 25 years, has children attending public school in the riding, has strong support from the Indo Canadian community, she has always been accessible. Has potential in any future Liberal government for cabinet. Nina Grewall has been virtually invisible in the riding only hope to win would be coattails of national campaign.
Sukh Dhaliwall
Very active in the local community as an organizer at all levels of government. He is well regarded in the Indo Canadian community and certainly the riding he is running in is predominantly Indo Canadian. Phil Eidsvik was a very poor choice for this riding.
Penny Priddy
Has a proven track record in government at two levels, highly accessable to the public. She has the endorsement of Donna Cadman. She would be a great MP.
Russ Hiebert
Originally a drop in Candidate in 2004, riding is traditionally conservative. Unfortunately he has exteme right wing views but the Liberals failed to present a really strong candidate there which could have made a big difference, they should have tried to get Val Meredith as she has a big axe to grind with the Harper crew, but at the end of the day would beat Hiebert in a head to head.
That's the way I see Surrey lining up. Could be wrong but I hope the first 3 make it.

Hi Jeeves. So, what is a "moral authority". Considering we evolved from the apes, would that be a blessing from a chimp? A picture of Bush comes to mind.

The Indo Canadian community, I was not surprised, but it was interesting to learn that the campaign manager for disgraced Abbotsford Liberal candidate David Oliver's campaign manager promised that if NDP candidate Jeffrey Hanson-Carlson dropped out of the race and sent his support to Oliver, that he could guarantee him an Abbotsford council seat by delivering 8,500 Indo Canadian votes to Jeffery's cause.
This is creepy. These ethnic voting blocks are unethical, and to me, particularly demeaning to Indo Canadians themselves.
Wake up Indo Canadians, you may soon be marginalized by a conservative leaning electorate.
The next plague on us will be Muslim voting blocks.
How can any of us take seriously anything that occurs in Surrey, what is going on here ?
Why do these people vote ONLY Liberal, what am I missing, can anyone explain ?

Ron Erwin: I would remind you that Mulroney also ran for Prime Minister. George Bush ran for President. Does that mean either gave a rat's patootie for the country? The right loves power, and political power is the most remuneritive for second raters.

If you are really so concerned about the rising cost of medicare, do the noble thing, and when you or yours are diagnosed with having a terminal condition, refuse publicly funded medical treatment. Similarily, if you are so against the pinko hordes and their policies, you have the right and indeed the obligation to refuse to accept any of them, including government pensions, workers comp, and pokey.

Your type is the first, I repeat, the first to come running to the government asking for a handout, or special treatment in trade and business matters.

On other matters, is Open Federalism anything like an Open Marriage?

Coyote, interesting posts... but say, are you a gold bug? That is really concluding that stupidity and chaos are leading the charge of the gadarene swine, isn't it.

R. Smiley

[QUWake up Indo Canadians, you may soon be marginalized by a conservative leaning electorate.
The next plague on us will be Muslim voting blocks.
OTE]
Boy it sure didn't take you long to prove my point.

ripponfalls, Brian Mulroney and George Bush ran to lead because they love their countries. Who would put themselves through the abuse for any other reason ?
I generally respect all who through themselves into the battle for power. I am not one to put down politicians because they are politicians. We need these people, what else would we do if we didn't have these people to kick around.
And please, do not pull the race card on me, I am only interested in ALL races to be treated exactly the same. This is interpreted as racism by some who want favours for certain races. I am for equality period.

And amen to that, StanM. I hope all folks are paying close attention to the lunatic fascist ravings of this Conservative.

I have been invested in gold in a small way. But then I decided that with what little "investment" cash that I can actually afford to lose, and one should never gamble/invest more than they are prepared to lose, in my view, I cashed it in for more secure Banque du Canada insured investments. Lower returns in the short run, but I sleep better. :-)

And I appreciate that you enjoyed my writing, R. Smiley.

Just a comment on the media coverage of the election:

The nearly uniform tone has become one of obituary writing, that the Martin Libs have no chance left.
Normally, if there is a possibility remaining of competition, a race on with an uncertain outcome, the media will play up the contest. Media thrives on the excitement of a race.

But the media is now saying the race has been won, although there is a week remaining in the campaign. Such absolute certainty among the chattering classes of a Lib demise, in itself
bodes very badly for Libs. For the group that thrives on the race to preemptively state the race is already over, suggests it really must be over! I don't believe this is simply a conspiracy by media to elect Harper, 'cause just about everyone's onboard now. It's too
monolithic to be a conspiracy! So, it must be a perception of what the situation actually must be.

It looks like just one uncertainty remains:
Minority or majority?

To Coyote;
Appreciate your comment, with regards to Ron, well I doubt very much that he is a facist. Ron is just one of those guys who can't see the world the way it really is. He can't see the world through the eyes of others. He has his own insular view which clouds everything. Like most conservatives, he pulls out only what he wants to read and only that which supports his narrow viewpoint.

He has never seen what I have seen, he has never felt what I have felt in both myself and others.

But at the end of day whether I agree with him or not,and I do not, I have to support his right to express his convictions even if it means I and my commnunity may suffer. At the end of it all, being the eternal optimist, I am hopefull that reason will prevail.

Dear Stan M,
I live in Surrey Newton, Sukh's riding, and the breakdown I currently see is 2 Conservative, 1 NDP(Penny Priddy) and 1 Liberal(Sukh Dhaliwal). Nina Grewal will win because Fleetwood, Tynehead and Port Kells/North Clayton voted strongly BC Liberal in the June 2004 elections and aren't Federally Liberal territory. However, if the Liberal vote collapses in Newton-North Delta, the breakdown may be 2 Conservative and 2 NDP instead.

I will vote for Conservative Eidswick in my riding but I think he is behind the Eight Ball being from Burnaby and all that. Even the NDP's Nancy Clegg has a stronger local profile than him. Of course, its not Eidswick fault; Gurmant Grewal quit his candidacy at the start of the race and left Conservatives scrabling for a new candidate. Apparently Grewal had illusions of another election win after the tape recording fiasco. While Doug Maccallum threw his ring for the Conservative candidacy here, I think few Party members wanted a defeated Surrey Mayor on their campaign. Maybe it was the wrong decision I don't know--but then few are predicting defeated Coquitlam Mayor Jon Kingsbury will win Port Moody/Coquitlam against Conservative James Moore. Why can't defeated politicians take a year's beak from politics?

3 Polls Out Today, Jan. 14:
1)
Ontario voters turning to Tories, poll suggests

The EKOS Research Associates survey conducted for the Star and La Presse found that 40 per cent of Ontarians favoured Stephen Harper's Tories compared with 34 per cent for Paul Martin's Liberals, 21 per cent for the New Democrats of Jack Layton and 5 per cent for the Green party led by Jim Harris. In Ontario, 914 people were polled, meaning the data is accurate to within 3.2 percentage points 19 times out of 20.

"Fortress Ontario has definitely been breached and is in danger of crumbling," EKOS president Frank Graves said yesterday, noting signs increasingly point to a Tory majority.

In the 2004 election, the Liberals won 75 seats in Ontario, the Tories 24 and the NDP seven.

Nationwide, EKOS interviewed 2,306 Canadians aged 18 and older from Tuesday to Thursday and found 37.6 per cent support the Conservatives, 28.3 per cent back the Liberals, with the NDP at 18.1 per cent, the Bloc Québécois at 11.6 per cent and the Greens at 3.7 per cent. The national survey is considered accurate to within 2 percentage points 19 times out of 20.

"Certainly the Liberals remain strong in Toronto and up north, but there's very little evidence that there's much strength elsewhere," said Graves, noting the Tories are doing well in the 905 belt around the city and most of the rest of Ontario.

"The Liberals are doing almost shockingly poorly in Eastern Ontario," he added. "When you think about it, that's dominated by Ottawa, rich in public servants, who, historically, would have viewed Stephen Harper as a scary anathema. Now, apparently, they're ready to take the broom to Martin and the Liberals….

The only good news for Martin in the poll was that the Liberals are surging in British Columbia, which is home to many tight three-way races. The Liberals are at 40 per cent, the Tories 34 per cent, the NDP 22 per cent and the Greens 4 per cent. EKOS polled 303 British Columbians and the survey is considered accurate to within 5.6 percentage points 19 times out of 20.

2) The Liberal party’s onslaught of attack ads has failed to dent support for the Conservative party, according to a new poll that shows the Tories maintaining a 10-point lead that would put them within striking distance of a majority government.

The national survey, conducted by Ipsos Reid for CanWest News Service and Global National, shows dramatic new gains for the Conservatives in Atlantic Canada at the expense of the Liberals.

The Conservatives lead the Liberals 39% to 29% nationally. The NDP remains unchanged at 18%, while the Bloc is at 9%. …

The most dramatic gains for the Tories — at the expense of the Liberals — came in Atlantic Canada where they surged nine points to 42% while the Liberals lost their hold on the region plunging 16 points to 26%, since a Jan. 2-5 survey. The NDP also gained seven points at the expense of the Liberals, jumping to 30%, the party’s highest showing in any region of the country.

3) Popular support for the Conservative Party has hit a plateau after rising steadily in the first two weeks of January. Despite a series of Liberal attack ads and the ensuing controversy, the Conservatives remain at 39 per cent. The Liberals have gained a point, to 28 per cent, while the New Democrats are steady at 16 per cent. The Bloc Québécois has dropped one point, to 12 per cent.

Numbers tracking momentum heading into the election also suggest Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's upward march may have levelled off. Sixty-six per cent of respondents say the Tories have the most momentum, unchanged from the previous poll. Until this week, Conservative momentum had risen in steady daily increment

Ron

You are such a hypocrite - criticizing others for bloc voting . GOOGLE "STOCKWELL DAY ON ISRAELI RADIO" where you will see that more than a month ago Harpers's potential Foreign Defense Minister Stockwell Day is telling Israel that if Harper is elected Canada will finally become a staunch ally of Israel. Canadians have always resisted that policy - we don't owe a damn thing to Israel and don't want our citizens traipsing half way around the world to defend policies of preemptive bombing and killing that we don;t even agree with. How do you defend a media controled by Jews hiding this announcement? and don't you think the CJC and B'NAI Brith will vote in blocs to elect a Harper Government that will support Israel? Especially when they have manipulated media (read Barbara Yaffe columns for e.g.). I'd like your reponse to this as everything I've said is true and can be proved - no just speculation or silly smears - just facts. And another fact if - that Fundamentalist Christians are the biggest bloc voters in the world.

Sorry...uncredited Poll #3 is from the Globe, from Allan Gregg's Strategic Counsel.

rebel, I am happy that Canada would be a staunch ally of Israel. What am I missing ? Why wouldn't we be ? I see this anti-Israel thing come up often by liberals and am mystified.
Go ahead and promote Osama if you want, but be aware that this only helps our real enemies, Islamist extremists.

Wow Ron.

Are you really this stupid or is it some sort of baiting to try and draw the rhetoric out and obfuscate the issues?

No Michael, I really believe this, don't you ?
I don't recall attacks on western civilization by Israel. World Trade Centre, USS Cole, US Embassy, Sept. 11, Bali, London, remember these, and remember the words of the President of Iran. I support Bush in his efforts to defend ourselves from a dark Muslim world where I don't think I would feel that comfortable.
Are you in favour of western civilisation being destroyed and yourself executed as an Infidel dog ?

In the article 'THE MAN BEIND STEPHEN HARPER" from the Walrus Magazine referred to above it also tells about all the books and papers Harpers soul mate Tom Flannigan would like to put an END TO ABORIGINAL RIGHTS AND ALL LAND CLAIMS (no wonders they are so upset - these were things promised in signed Treaties in good faith years ago and still not honored by the government over and over - it really is a national disgrace). I think Flannigan will be like Harpers Carl Rove. And guess what Ron? - Ezra Levant of the Western Standard was one of his students, that explains why he thinks the way he thinks I guess. Along with taking shots at the Charter of Rights and promoting Western Alienation AND detabilizing and weakening the country's unity and strength supported by a strong central government he would like to weaken a central government and promote more power to individual provinces with the result of the appearance of 10 little weaked countries - you know the old NeoCon rule - DIVIDE AND CONQUER. Flannigan is part of aa group called the CALGARY SCHOOL has a bunch of policy prescriptions - " from an elected senate to parliamentary approval of judges - would have ONE EFFECT; THEY WOULD WIPE OUT THE QUIRKY BILATERAL DIFFERENCES THAT ARE STUMBLING BLOCKS TO SEAMLESSS INTEGRATION WITH THE UNITED STATES."
Also that they "want to replace the rule of law with the populism of the majority," and labeled STEPHEN HARPER "THEIR PRODUCT."

A great quote in the New Yorker magazine was "THE PERSON WHO WHISPERS IN THE EAR OF THE KING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE KING."

rebel, I don't see anything in the Conservative policy book about ending Aboriginal rights and land claims. It's missing, where did you get this information ? From statements made by others ?
What a cheap political trick, you don't expect anyone to fall for that one, do you ?
I do think for myself. So do most people. Don't insult the intelligence of Canadians just because your side is losing the election badly.

Ron - how many times as the article been recommended written by an award winning writer who exposed the Martin shipping story also wrote the article 'THE MAN BEHIND STEPHEN HARPER" how many time do you have to be told just google those few words in quotation marks and you can read it for youself - I can't believe and the many times this article has been mentioned and will helo you understahnd who Harper is and how he thinks and who influences him that you haven't read it. What is the matter with you ? are you stupid or you can;t google an article or read and understand or what?

P.S. I am not anti-Israel or anti-American at all - I am definitely anti the Bush regime and the PNAC document written by Neocons that is the prescription for pre-emptive strikes against anyone who might prevent their scheme for world dominstion. which has been published for all the world to see and know about since 1997 and when the rest of the world new of their plans - well if you can't figure out the reaction to that document meaning PNAC - THE PROJECT FOR THE A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY - and Ron if you tell me you haven't read this document or about it I just don't know what rock you have been living under. You do have a computer and you can google articles to investigate for yourself. google: pnac.info.com if you are really this uninformed. The signatures of the writers and endorsers are at the end of the document. Cheap political trick - grow up and smell the coffee and read for yourself.

Ron:

Do you have an english-to-rhetoric dictionary installed or is it just natural for you to fly off the handle?

I remember you being the champion of CHOICE on another thread. The capitalization is yours.

Why is it that people are free to choose religion as long as it is your religion? Why are people free to choose to be married as long as they are straight like yourself? Why is voting in blocks other than white-middle-class-xtian wrong?

Help me out with these issues Ron.

rebel, I like all this right wing stuff, why are you surprised ?
I know exactly what Steven Harper stands for and I respect it.

Michael, I don't know how you got the idea that I am against religious freedom. Sorry if I gave that impression.. But Islamic extremism scares the hell out of me.
Same sex marriage : it's an oxymoron, I go with civil union instead. Like Britain just enacted.
Block voting : it's demeaning, imagine being told because you are a certain type you must vote a certain way ?

Ron Erwin, it's just delicious to see you sweating about conspiracies within Surrey voters.

You are right to be paranoid about it like everything else that sets you off.

It's also good that you think George Bush is defending you from a Muslim world. The last thing you ought to do is to be seduced by some education about the Arab world.

Don't buy any of the bs that they might be human like us who live in a western civilization.

It's neat being civilized isn't it?

When we kill people we can call it liberating because we are civilized while those others, you know who I mean, only murder.

Ron why didn't you run so we could vote for you?

Hi Fabian;
I hope you are wrong on this, Nina has been a disaster for Fleetwood Port Kells. Also, bear in mind that Brenda Locke was a BC Liberal cabinet minister and resides in the area, she has strong ties and credentials in the riding and to the community here.

"...well I doubt very much that he is a facist. Ron is just one of those guys who can't see the world the way it really is." Stan M.

You don't think maybe you are subject to another kind of "stereotypical" view of what constitutes a fascist? ;-) The swastika and jackboots image of fascists is a WW2 stereotype that has "evolved", just like Harper has "evolved".

Though Ron does have a certain Colonel Klink evocative style and content about him here, I concede. :-D

Hey folks, take it easy on poor Ron, he has a condition called Conservative Selective Vision (CSV) he only see's what he wants to see. Of course that goes along with the parallel condition Conservative Selective Hearing (CSH), he only hears what he wants to hear.
Cure: none known todate.

As for the Infidel Dog name - when Sharon was removing Israelis from the West Bank I saw man of them screaming at the Palestinians that they were not human - they were beasts with legs. Which namecalling is the worst. They are all crazy with hatred as far as I can see - so go fight your own damn war and stop trying to drag Canadians in to spend their blood and treasure the way the Americans are. You know the kind of bigotry and racism you espouse I have heard from fans of Peter Warrens show and heard the call in and many of them women which shocked and I remember when when I heard about the two separate instances where the two old Seik gentlemen out for a walk in Bear Creek Park were attacked by a gang of teen agers and beaten so badly the they died - I felt sick to my stomach - and I thought of those women with their ugly racist remarks about Indo Canadian community and I thought the teenagers probably came from a home with mothers with view like that taught in the home. I also disagree with you about their block voting as time goes by I notice they are scattered about in many different parties. I also don't like these hyphonated names - they are Canadian citizens - period. How would you like to be called a Jewish-Canadian from the Jewish-Canadian community every time someone addressed you? It seems impossible for you to think in a "live and let live" and "treat other people the way you want to be treated" context. Oh well, Ron I'm glad you're there - who else am I going to argue with? Peace pal.

Coyote wrote:

Actually the business class of both nations have been trying to do since at least 1800, in fact the War of 1812 was opposed by Maine as it would hurt business with Canada, quite few other similar tales come out of that time period. Lets not forget the US “Manifest Destiny”. So why haven’t they succeeded at this integration so far and what makes you think Harper will cause the downfall of Canada?

Also Ron you never did answer my question about - why do you think the media is not reporting the Stockwell Day on Israeli radio thing??? Is it a coverup?? Why, why, why Ron?

I like the pictures for this article.

nightbloom - I find your comments interesting and informative.

Colin - Why doesn't Svend run in his old riding? I assume it's because he
doesn't want to step on the shoes of his replacement, Bill Siksay who was
Svend's constituent assistant for 16 years in the riding. Some credit
for the legendary reputation Svend had for supporting his constituents must be
due to Bill Siskay. I live in the Burnaby-Douglas riding and I find Bill Siksay
to be a class act.

Think twice!! Stephen Harper will use the military to go into the cities, carrying guns. He will round up all of the pregnant women, and force them into political re-orientation tanks. I know this, becuase Paul told me so. Maybe there'll be a tie, and our new PM will be Steve Martin!!

You are right, Colin. That pro-US integrationist element has always been there in the ruling class. And it has always been rejected and held at bay to here.

It is still there however, alive and well in the topmost levels of the ruling class of both countries and manifest politically in the Liberals, to a lesser degree in the NDP, though as they typically are, scared shitless to broach the subject, but especially looming larger and most threatening now in the Conservative Party, the current Corporatist's preferred choice. (And you really do have to listen to the statements of their leadership Colin, most notably of recent, Harper and Day -, but get this, in between elections and not just when the soft pedalling, sneak into power, soft shoe shuffle talk starts at election time.)

The point being, however many times we here have been over this ground with you here Colin, and in true Neocon style you carry on as if nothing has ever been said about it before, that the pressure has never been stronger and more all pervasive, already far along in military, trade, and State and economy policy "harmonization" terms. We are in a place where we need to fight the fight, and defeat that same pro-US class element in Canada again, and will have to again and again, until this class's power is finally clearly circumscribed and eventually crushed by taking democracy, new concepts and forms of democracy, working class and community power into the economy where this corporatist class power resides and moves by stealth to betray the nation.

You choose only to see the ancient history part of the story Colin, because you are in a kind of academic ivory tower place somewhere. What you refuse to see and concede, for whatever partisan reasons of your own, is that the history is still alive and residing here with us. And those who have failed to learn from history, over however long, are doomed to keep repeating it.

Which is where we are at, the need to attempt to save the nation AGAIN, from those class interests who would sell it away/betray it for their own benefit and gain. That or it is suddenly, finally and irretrievably sold off and written off as an experiment in nation building that simply didn't have the huzpah and whatever else it takes to endure.

But I, and to here at least, the majority of Canadians have not been ready to go there.

'The Liberal party’s onslaught of attack ads has failed to dent support for the Conservative party, according to a new poll that shows the Tories maintaining a 10-point lead that would put them within striking distance of a majority government.
there's a blue wave sweeping the nation, and the lefties are shitting their pants.
better brew up some more dandelion wine coyote.

According to a newer poll I just conducted at my computer, Harper and his cronies will get 0% of the vote, 100% of the respondents despise the idea of becoming a Northern theocratic, pseudo-Christian, "bum buddies-with-Dubya". Similarily, 100% of those polled felt PM the PM's crew of "pigs at the trough", Panamanian-flag-flying, outright thieving brand of graft governance was also unsupportable. Leaving all the respondents to make the only viable choice - Jack Layton's NDP.

that would be awesome tommy. will jack the used-car salesman tell us the location of the money trees when he wins?

rebel, re: the media and their ignoring Stockwell Day saying Canada will be a strong supporter of Israel. I thought I answered that by saying that this policy is a no brainer. Read my above post again.
No forgive me, but I don't usually respond to Coyote because he is too deep for me to understand a thing about what he is talking about.
But it seem like a strange shift of logic for him to portray me as some kind of ********** Nazi, while I am defending Jews.
And can I not logically say that this may apply to Mr. Day as well.
This is a trick used by the fanatical, atheist, liberal, left, Democrats that doesnt fly with me, sorry.
I still feel our real fear should be the Fundamentalist Muslim extremists who want you dead.
And of course all the misguided North American liberals who want to destroy our society and make it into some kind of secular socialist grey !(*$ style society where everyone is the lowest common denominator.
No thanks.

Prisoners can take away your right to life, but they cannot lose the right to vote, no matter what crime they commit.
____________________________________
Prisoners exercise their right to vote
Updated Fri. Jan. 13 2006 10:13 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Friday was voting day for prisoners across Canada. About 35,000 were eligible to vote, and many seemed to be voting Liberal in order to protect privileges that Conservatives threaten to take away.

"We're all voting for the Liberals, just because we want to keep our vote," Jeff Power, an inmate at Manitoba's Stony Mountain facility told CTV Winnipeg. "We don't want to lose rights like our TVs, stuff like that."

The Conservative Party is showing better results in the campaign polls than it has seen in years, and some hardened criminals are nervous. Many of them, like Power, voted Liberal today primarily to keep the Tories out of office. They're worried the party will claw back benefits they have received under Liberal rule.

Power, who is serving a six-year sentence for drug trafficking and robbery, was one of 177 inmates who cast his ballot Friday in the Stony Mountain facility. He proudly displayed his Liberal stripes, with a Maple Leaf and Liberal 'L' shaved into the side of his head and outlined in red.

"Everyone is afraid the PCs are going do dehumanize inmates," Power said.

And from cell to cell, prisoner after prisoner told CTV Winnipeg they were voting Liberal, with no exceptions.

The Tory platform -- and Harper's position against allowing prisoners to vote -- is what seems to have struck fear in inmates' hearts.

"No, I don't agree with prisoner voting," Harper has stated plainly.

The 2004 federal election marked the first time all inmates were eligible to vote federally.

According to Elections Canada, 9,250 of a total of 36,378 eligible prisoners cast ballots in this election.

Every vote counts. And if the race remains close, those votes could play a vital role in electing the next government.
____________________________________
Isn't it wonderful that repeat offenders (preferred customers) in the justice system (legal industry), are allowed to vote for the people who make the laws in this country?

This is an industry that knows how to keep it's repeat customers happy.

This is what lawyers and judges would call customer service.

bulltoss, now let me get this right, if a Canadian decides to invade the House of Commons when Parliament is sitting. Pulls out an AK47 and blows away 16 women MP's, that once convicted and was sentenced to life????????? on prison, that this convicted terrorist, anti-democratic monster would have the right to cast a ballot and vote for the rest of his life?
Gee, who endorsed this ? Liberals ?

Dear StanM and others,

Nina Grewal's riding of Fleetwood Port Kells encompasses some very prosperous areas of Surrey--like Tynehead and Fraser Heights and some very socially Conservative areas like Port Kells and rural North Clayton. So, Brenda Locke is behind the Eight Ball in my humble opinion. However, Locke also carries some negative political baggage of her own: she lost badly in her Provincial riding of Surrey-Green Timbers in June 2005 partly because she couldn't convince Victoria to adequately fund the expansion of Surrey Memorial Hospital, which has been in the news for all the wrong reasons. So, many voters in Nina's riding and elsewhere in Surrey hold Locke partly accountable for the Hospital's woes. With the Tories enjoying a boost in the polls, she should cary this riding even though I agree that she is not a strong candidate. But Surreyites had a strong Minister with Brenda Locke and we know what happened.

On social conservative candidates being Liberals or Conservatives, the best example I can think of is Richmond Centre. Both Lib. Raymond Chan and CPC Darrel Reid are strong social conservatives. I said the NDP is firmly socially liberal. The best example of this fact is the fate of Bev Desjarlais who lost her riding's nomination to a young rookie because she was the sole NDP MP to vote against SSM. Now, she's running as an independent in Churchill, Manitoba and no political observer will predict if it will fall to Bev, the Liberals or the NDP. Some Conservatives may support her because the Party has no shot at winning the riding. See Milton Chan's election prediction web site below on Churchill:
http://www.electionprediction.org/2005_fed/riding/46003-churchill.htm

Ron,

As long as the prisoner is a Canadian citizen, yes. Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo, etc.

It's interesting that the media reported Harper's position on this, but nobody bothered to ask Paul Martin what he thought of his Stony Mountain fan club.

So let me get this straight. If a guy steals a car or three he loses his right to vote but if a party steals a hundred million taxpayer dollars they are supposed to deny the car thief's right to vote?

Let's say you're the leader of the Conservatives and you take a few hundred thousand for who knows why from a German businessman who is also a lobbyist for Airbus and facing corruption related charges in Germany. Oh and Airbus gets the big contract with your gov't owned airline over Boeing. Your party with this former prime minister then decides lawbreakers don't get to vote?

Let's say you're driving drunk in Maui....

Frank,
As you know, Brian Mulroney sued the Govt. of Canada over those false allegations and he won. $10,000,000.00 I think > ( please, anyone please fell free to correct me on the amount )
And the Stevie Cameron book " On the Take " was debased as political propaganda.
The Liberals also cancelled the contract with the general contractor who was building the Toronto Airport, costing taxpayers 100's of millions of dollars for no good reason.
To follow up, they cancelled a helicopter manufacturing contract, and we have never caught up to this, that AGAIN cost us 100's of million dollars of taxpayers money, and the Armed Forces are still suffering for this.
Besides, Steven Harper is pure and untouchable.
The socialists have no dirt on him, but that won't stop them from trying to transfer actions of others to him.
I hope we don't let a good man like Steven get slaughtered unnecessarily.
The Lib should be disregarded, in my opinion.

Yes, Frank. Hi again, Bulltoss.

I think it's great prisoners are voting. It's engaging them in the political process and society in a brilliant way. When one takes action and votes one then gains a vested interest in their society. It can only come to good. Unless of course one is seeking to disenfranchise them because they will vote against them.

I strongly disagree with punishing prisoners in inhumane ways. Not only is there no excuse to be cruel, after all we're supposed to know better, but one day the prisoner will return to society. Ideally with a trade and if needed socialization. I am for strict sentences for violent crimes. A lot of people are there because of poverty and addiction rather than violence. It isn't sound to make them worse than when they went in.

you know I don't know why I didn't take up a life of crime instead of foolishly working at a 9-5 job all this time.
Apparently the consequences of crime are minimal.
Most of these prisoners are very unrepairable, but they need to be punished.
I am not talking about vengueance, I am talking about accountability.
No voting for these people. They don't have any rights. They are being punished and being denied the right to vote is part of the punishment.
And the majority vote Liberal.

Hi redrivergirl,

Brian Mulroney sued the Govt. of Canada

Airbus: Long out of politics, former Progressive Conservative prime minister Brian Mulroney was dragged back into the public arena, thanks to the RCMP and a lobbyist called Karlheinz Schreiber.

As part of an investigation into Schreiber's role in an alleged plot involving secret commissions and kickbacks in deals for the purchase of airplanes and helicopters, the federal Justice Department sent a letter to the Swiss government.

The 1995 letter alleged that Mulroney was also involved in the arrangement, taking kickbacks on the sale of Airbus planes to Air Canada during his time as prime minister.

When the letter became public, Mulroney sued the federal government for defamation, seeking $50 million in damages.

Two years later, he settled for $2 million in legal costs and an apology from Ottawa. The RCMP finally ended its criminal investigation against Mulroney in April 2003, citing a lack of evidence.

okay bulltoss, good information, but not the whole story that I outlined. $2 million, wow, and who payed that ? We did, just one of the many costs we have paid to elect a Liberal Government.

Liberals cancel helicopter manufacturing contract

Across Canada, the EH101 project will create 45,000 direct and indirect person-years of employment over 10 years. Canadian companies will supply a minimum of 10% of the EH101 airframe and 83% of the electronics systems for the CF [Canadian Forces] helicopters. All told, the Canadian EH101 will be more than 50% Canadian-made … and not to be overlooked is the guarantee that 10% of every EH101 sold worldwide will be Canadian-made, … but perhaps the best part of the deal are the technology transfers to Canadian suppliers!

Kim Campbell, Minister of National Defence, February 1993

I'll take one piece of paper, I'll take my pen, I will write zero helicopters, Chretien. That will be it, and I will not lose one minute of sleep over it.

Prime Minister, Jean Chretien, 1993 Election Campaign

In 1987 the Progressive Conservative government announced the purchase of 48 EH-101 helicopters to replace both the CH-124 Sea King and CH-113 Labrador fleets at a cost of $4.4 billion (CAD).

In 1992, just as the contract was to be finalised, the same government announced that the actual order was being reduced to 28 Petrels and 15 Chimos.

Following a change of government in October 1993, the incoming Liberals ordered AIRCOM to immediately cancel the entire order, forcing the payment of cancellation fees of $500 million (CAD).

Okay bulltoss, you have done such good work up yo now, but what happened with the Toronto Airport contract cancellation ? Who was toasted and who was the replacement general contractor ?
I don't think there will be much the Conservatives will need to plunder besides the CRTC, Gun Registry, shielding Federal Foundations from auditing, Dept. of Northern and Indian Affairs, CBC, Kyoto, Quebec separation, laughable criminal justice and marketing boards.

MEMO TO CANADIAN VOTERS:

You may be about to hand a majority gov't to
a right wing idealogue. ARE YOU CRAZY?
Apparently only we BCers are being somewhat more prudent.Aparently, here the Libs, not the Cons. are surging.
PLEASE reconsider your vote!

I just read something hopeful.Perhaps Ontarians will help save us from Harper afterall!

Sun, January 15, 2006
CANOE NETWORKS CNET

Too early to celebrate
Number-crunching prof sheds light on actual chance of Tory majority

By Licia Corbella

Don't start popping those champagne corks just yet.

Pollsters, Conservatives and even fearful Liberals are starting to predict a Conservative majority government.

But how likely is that really?

Well, the man best able to answer that question says one main thing needs to happen before that's possible and right now it doesn't look very likely.

Dr. Barry Kay, a political science professor at Wilfred Laurier University in Waterloo, Ont., says the Tories will have to be 15 percentage points ahead of the Liberals in Ontario before they could pull off a majority government.

Currently, the Conservatives are ahead of the Liberals by just six percentage points in all-important vote-rich Ontario, which holds 106 seats.

To win a majority government, a party would need to win 155 seats out of a total of 308.

Kay, who leads the Laurier Institute for the Study of Public Opinion and Policy, has an excellent track record of projecting very closely how many seats each party will win by following large polling samples on a regional basis.

Kay says from Jan. 7 to 10, the following projection is drawn from five large polls -- the Ipsos super-sample of 7,300 from the Internet and phone polls

from EKOS, SES and Strategic Counsel -- totalling 5,400 respondents.

Here's how Kay projects the House of Commons' 308 seats would be divided based on the already mentioned polls:

Canada-wide, the Conservatives would win 139 seats, the Liberals, 84, the NDP, 25 and the Bloc, 60 of that province's 75 seats.

"Quebec doesn't have very many competitive seats," says Kay.

"Momentum may see some of the Liberal seats there go to the Conservatives, but it's in Ontario where majority or minority will be decided. The current projection has the Bloc winning 60 seats, the Liberals, 12 and the Conservatives 3.

"A one-point change in Ontario is more significant than a five-point change in Quebec in terms of the number of seats that are affected," says Kay.

He points out all regions are of

consequence, however in Alberta, for instance, all 28 seats are almost certainly going to be Conservative this time -- even pushing out Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan.

However, in Ontario, says Kay, dozens of seats are literally "in play," including one within the traditional Liberal stronghold of Metro Toronto -- in this case, Etobicoke Lakeshore, a western suburb of Toronto.

Even the seats of so-called "star" Liberal candidates, such as former Conservative MP Belinda Stronach, are in jeopardy.

In fact, Kay goes one step further with regard to his projection for Stronach.

"Belinda Stronach's Newmarket/Aurora seat is gone," says Kay.

"The Liberals had a little over a 13% lead in the last election in Ontario.

"Right now you've got the Conservatives with a 6% lead. Every seat that the Liberals won by less than 19% -- and there's a mitt full of them -- are in play."

Oddly, the news Stronach might lose her seat actually disappoints some Conservatives who say they would love nothing more than to see the auto-parts heiress have to sit in the Opposition benches across the aisle in the House of Commons from the governing party and her lover, which she dumped for a cabinet post which prevented Paul Martin's Liberals from losing a non-confidence vote last May.

"That would be sweet justice," said one highly ranked Conservative insider, who asked to remain anonymous.

And yet, despite the sweep in Alberta, it's important to point out that, thanks to the distortions caused by our ancient electoral system, there are actually Liberals in Alberta, just as there are Conservatives in Quebec.
(...)

And Colin, I don't know if you were around during the hysteria of the cold war years, but it was during that period, again like now around the US preoccupation with "Muslim terrorism", then "communist plans for world domination", that pressures emabating from Washington to draw this country into their military, political and economic "continental defence/Fortress North Amerika" systems was taken to a whole new qualitative level. Indeed, it was this earlier, but still fairly recent "Cold War" period that took this "continental harmonization" process to whole new levels, which these bi-national ruling class elements are continuing to attempt to build on in this new "terrorist threat to the US Empire" period.

Such that while we have never actually been attacked or under threat of being seriously taken over or invaded by ANY foreign power..., except Washington. It's that "coffee" which we really need to be smelling here, if we have any real sence of smell of our own left

great analogies frank! how'd you get so smart anyway?

Bob 999,

Enjoying much of this material you are providing, by way of bringing some evidential reality into our deliberations-, into which these Neocons continue to be here in an attempt to sully the waters.

What is clear is, at least to me, strategic voting by progressive and left voters remains the key to denying these suddenly and stealthily low key Conservatives majority governance. By such, hopefully holding them, in the very least, to a minority governance position. (Though I do also understand, even amongst the left and progressives, the reluctance to engage in that, which many feel, especially in their disappointment with the NDP. It's just that I near as much fear a majority Liberal government as a Conservative one, at this historical juncture and the state of the nation.)

Which, with the media bandwagon plumping for them out there right now, and the conspiracy of events, especially the indicators of an implosion of the Liberals, and all the creepy crawlies coming out of that scenario, would be a significant achievement in itself (To deny the Cons a majority).

And which needs to be the focus of a progressive strategy right now, I think.

But even that said and secured, we may still be destined for things to get much worse here in Canada, before there is the kind of popular national awakening that is going to be required to defeat this ruling class inspired Neocon agenda set loose amongst us. My view.

Coyote
Well I climbed back up from A-hole to Necon, gee thank you.

Yes I do remember the cold war, got to spend time in Germany being part of the trip wire that would have been wiped out by the Soviet Steamroller had they crossed the border. Our base was within 45 minutes by fighter bomber from the border and we were always ready to go with our gear packed.

The point of my history lesson is that businesses on both side of the border have had a long relationship and the election of this conservative government will not be the end of Canada.

I understand why you think the necons are coming, since you label anyone that disagrees with you as one, then the world must seem to be full of them.

By the way my Ivory tower exits on street level

I'm all for strategic voting, Coyote, if it helps reduce a Harper sweep. The problem is trying to figure out the best strategy in a given riding.
In most cases, it may be hard to find riding specific polling numbers that could help to
identify the non-Con candidate most likely to
beat the Con, if that's what you're meaning by strategic voting.

I noticed an opinion in the news somewhere, which I tend to agree with, that a Con minority would manifest something of a Red Tory slant, while a Con majority would give them the clout and confidence (arrogance?) to bring the Reform type hard-right Cons to the fore.
I believe that Harper, at heart, is still ideologically in the Reform camp, and given a majority, will do as much as he can to carry out Reform type agendas. He'll push as far to the right as he thinks he can get away with. He could look to our own Gordo pseudo-Libs for a blueprint.

Harper has promised increases in military spending - heavy-lift aircraft, more military presence in cities, more bombs, more guns. All this to allow Canada to become (even more) the handmaiden of the US. He bandies about terms like "asserting our sovereignty", but I believe his motivation is darker; aligning us more strongly with the world's most powerful bully, and succeeding in making us a true target of terrorists, by becoming terrorists ourselves. Why any Canadian would seek to cozy up to this fascist, neo-conservative theocracy - and suffer the impending economic implosion rather than striving now to distance ourselves in both foreign and economic policies is beyond me. I hope thinking people in this country consider these ramifications carefully before voting in Bush's favourite candidate.

Brilliant item, Frank.

Bob999, could you peer into your crystal ball again and tell us if Peter MacKay is going to lose his seat in N.S., too?

David Orchard, where are you when we need you so badly?

My Tory Trash MP, Paul Floorshit, mailed out letters to all the Christian churches in the community claiming that Martin intends to create a totally secular Canada and that the Torys need their support to keep freedom of worship intact. Oddly, he never sent any letters to non-christian organizations like Jewish or Muslim places of worship. Of course, forgetting about those that do not matter to you seems to be a Conservative virtue. To be fair, the man, Paul Forseth, always votes according to how his constituants desire, except when it conflicts with his party.

I really should just shut my mouth and let people like tommymore keep up the rhetoric that will help usher in a new Conservative Govt.
David Orchard, a man who tried to change the Conservative Party into a bunch of socialists.
I'm glad the knife was inserted into his back, by hero Peter McKay.
David Orchard was too stupid to see this necessary coup coming. It turns out to be the best thing that ever happened for Canada.
We may be free soon.

McKay? In the bag! He's a Con star, and is influential in the party. I'm sure they still love him in NB. It sure would be counter the trend to turf him.

He's viewed as being more in the moderate Red Tory camp than Harper. Any moderating influence is a good thing, in my view. For that reason I'll be kind of glad to see him in a Con gov't. I agree Orchard would have been an asset for Cda as a Tory MP. He was driven out by very undemocratic heavy handed actions by Harper and his capos.

I agree certainly, on the possibility of this scenario you create above. Certainly being put in a minority government position tamed the rightward drift of the Martin Liberals, from his early on indications. Now, at least in an election, always a distorter of political realities, we have Martin talking like an NDPer.

And no doubt, having the Cons in the same position would tame even further some of their extremism-, which the election already has effected some. And it would strengthen the position of that minority Red Tory element which survived the transition from "Progressive Conservative" to "Conservative", no doubt as well.

Which is our shared hope, brother.

But the full reality long term, I think, and which I seem to keep coming back to from time to time I appreciate, is that there needs to emerge a stronger, relatively more radicalized left (including a strong green influence) alternative in the country, prepared to champion the sovereignty issues of the nation vis a vis The Empire, a programme of independent and greater "self-sufficiency" economic development and husbanding of our natural and wild resources, and expansion of democracy on all the social and economic fronts of the nation and society. And the reason for the need of that if it isn't immediately obvious, parallel at least with trying to actually get elected is to create a pressure and "demand pull" towards a more progressive politics and programme alternative for the nation, away from the currently dominant neoconservative social, economic and political influences coming out of the ruling class, here and in the US. (To which the extremist Neocons in this country rise to serve, as a consequence of that "law" of their antura; attraction towards "Bully Power", such as I have already only partly tongue in cheek described.)

So, that even in this election, while progressives and the left are preoccupied with the tactical "stalling" maneuvre reality, of "strategic voting" in order to deny a majority Conservative government, there is a need, again my view, to already be thinking of the need for that longer term alternative development of a more radicalized politics.

And I do understand the complexities to which you allude, of precisely applying the principle of "strategic voting" and my notion of, " a relatively more radicalized left-progressive alternative".

Of the latter, for starters, there is a need to get a more precisely "scientific" understanding of that word "radical/radicalized"-, to which the politics of "bland" and all parties "group-fucking" around "the centre" has attached a lot of emotional and irrational baggage.

Just different ways of describing the same thing. :-)

oh gosh time for another quote since the name of David Orchard has been invoked.

Stephen Harper - June 2003 Christian Coalition International (Canada) Inc. website

Yes, indeed, moderate conservatives need not apply. I can't help but think that Sir John A.,Flora MacDonald, Right-Honourable John Diefenbaker, Sinclair Stevens, Robert Stanfield, etal would not be welcome. These were Canadians with a strong view of Canada as a whole, distinct and sovereign nation. These were Canadians who had a vision that included social justice and equality for all.

Canada is a difficult nation to govern, we are big, very big with tremendous differences. But at the end of the day we do find solutions to keep this confederation together. At least until now.

While I do not doubt some rank and file conservatives believe in a united Canada, I do believe that the top leadership from my readings do not have the same belief. Canada needs a strong federal government to counter the increasing internal and external pressures on our nation state.

I believe based on my own research, that Harper and company will set us on the road to "deconfederation".

Just this morning an email has started to circulate, erroneously attributed to the inner circle of the Conservative Party.
It's a letter reassuring Con supporters that Steven Harper will stick to his religious values once elected ( no same sex marriage, banning abortions and all the usual bogeymen )
Experts have traced the origin to St. Peters burg Russia.
Apparently sites such as godaddy.com and replay.rs are places you go to if you want to smear someone and have your location untraceable. This is James Bond like stuff. Truly an indication of total desperation
Although this one was nipped in the bud by Con headquarters there are likely to more bogus emails come out.
As I have said before, it's impossible to actually find any true dirt on Mr. Harper, it is possible to transfer dirt from someone else who is very dirty to the squeaky clean Mr. Harper.
This appears to be the last strategy left for liberal Canada to avoid Conservative rule.

no surprise there. the arrogant bastards will get dirtier and nastier as they get more desperate. watch for lots of this crap in the next week. harper's already history and chretien's laughing his head off, which is the only negative in this otherwise wonderful situation.

Yeah, a nation ruled by those with the wisdom of 'frat-boy McKay'. We'd have one heck of a bright future.

After skimming throught this article, I seem to see the chap Irwin hard at defending a number of things. All seem to be well right of center, or some sort of raving. I really don't think her does the Con.s extra points. If he was the average supporter of Harper, God help us all. With so many talented observers of the political scene, this thing which started out bashing Sven Robinson has wandered all over the place. I lived in the West End, I'm not gay, but would vote for Robinson in a moment. But we live in another place now.

Sven has done a lot of work for his constituents, has moved some rights for gays through parliament, pressed hard for legislation on the citizens right to a assisted death so they can go when they no longer can stand the pain of living. Yes he seems to always work on the edge. How many other politicians have done stuff folks wanted debated, but somehow got swept under the rug.
Off hand, just what great things has Ms. Fry ever done to improve the lot of the average voter? Maybe Ron Irwin could stop for a few minutes raving about Isreal and point seast and tell us all why his support for Harper and Company is so strong. Actually I thing Ron just likes to stir the pot. That seems to be how he gets his jollies. Could be a sugar high he's on

Squeaky not-so-clean Mr. Harper squeaking up against Canada to the Council for National Policy, a right-wing U.S. think tank: (excerpts)

"...your country [the US], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world."

"...it may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."

"Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it. Canadians make no connection between the fact that they are a Northern European welfare state and the fact that we have very low economic growth, a standard of living substantially lower than yours, a massive brain drain of young professionals to your country, and double the unemployment rate of the United States."

(In reality at the time, Canada, was in the middle of its long run of being ranked by the UN as the best place to live in the world.)

"In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance."

Isn't it lovely, Lynn?

you stole that headline from "the sam and christy show" headline in terminal city during the npa nominations. not very original. meh.

well done lynn. google away.

Just one note of caution. Unless we have a video of Harper's speech, we just don't know the context of his remarks. Was this part was in his "speaking in jest" portion of his speech or was it the main part of his speech? Secondly, most Canadians today will hardly hold Harper accountable for a speach he made 8 Years ago just as they don't hold Martin accountable for a speech he made in 1990/1991 when he promised to called the GST a terrible tax only to retain it as Finance Minister.

Some context too: Harper was speaking in 1997 after the Cdn. Federal election that Chretien won and Bill Clinton was in power in the States. That was the Harper we had in 2000 with his Firewall letter to Ralph Klein but people's views do change when they are exposed to Red Tories like Hugh Segal and Senator Marjorie LeBreton.

I wish Canadian voters would stop for a moment
before they stampede for the cliff edge with the sign "Change of gov't, this-a-way" at the brink.

Voters might consider taking a time out to review opinions Harper has voiced in the not too distant past, as evidenced by quote examples posted by Lynn and Stan.

People ought to reflect a little bit, instead of lapping up the Cons election platform, as if it truly represents what Harper wants to accomplish. Then they might come to see Harper as a Reform wolf in Red Tory clothes.

What's this about McKay a "frat boy"...?
The promise he made not to join the PC Party with the Alliance/Reform, a promise he broke, remains an unforgivable black mark against him.
But one doesn't need to be a fan (I'm not) to consider that the Cons are better off with as many moderate voices as possible, including
people like McKay. Evidently his constituents
are still voting him in despite blots on his record.

I imagine some of the things Coyote has in mind
when he talks about the need for a more "radicalized left", are likely things a lot of
a large % of Cdns might happen to agree with.
It makes me think of how even the word "liberal" is almost a dirty word in the US. Progressive Dems avoid referring to themselves as "liberals", the word has such a taint to it now. I have a guess this originated
from the right wing starting in the Reagan years and has lasted to this day.

Yet, if you asked Americans their opinions on a whole slew of issues, you likely would find
a majority in agreement with ideas and policies
that are deemed liberal!

StanM,
I was wondering if your last name is Mortenson?

Hmmm, judging from some of Herr Harper's speeches to his American masters, he is doing a pretty good job at it himself. I am actually looking forward to a Reform minority because it won't be long before the Refrom-APEC wingnuts hijack Herr Harper's adgenda.

One of the most comical things about the Vancouver Centre race was the leaflet Svend sent out last week. The first word was:

"Integrty."

The man is a convicted felon, for God's sake! Anyone else reading would have certainly done time in an identical case.

yes, extremely lovely, redrivergirl.

Bobb999: I agree... that is the only consolation if Harper gets in...that is, we will see the emergence of a more defined left...that line in the sand that has been so weakly compromised of late will clarify its true position.

fabian: same leopard, same spots, same jungle... just better camouflage make-up now. :-)

Vancouver Centre will be a very interesting riding in this election.

How many people will vote liberal after all of the corruption, arrogance, and stupidity.

("Crosses are burning as we speak, Mr. Speaker.")

In the 2004 election, Simon Fraser University Professor Kennedy Stewart ran for the NDP in Vancouver Centre and came in a strong second to Hedy Fry. He also beat out third place Conservative candidate Gary Mitchell by almost 7,000 votes.

Now that Svend Robinson has decided to throw his ring into the hat, it will be interesting to see how much his popularity has suffered.

All I know about Conservative candidate Tony Fogarassy, is that he is a lawyer.

His law practice includes energy, mining, aboriginal affairs, the environment and intellectual property law, and he was a professor at the University of British Columbia for 5 years

His campaign manager is the same Gary Mitchell who came in third in 2004.

Hi Barryjo
Yes but spelling is "sen" at the end., This must be my uncle.

I just can't keep out of the political landscape.

Fabian
I agree with Lynn's assessments viz a viz leopards. You can use all of the context arguments you want but clearly from reading the text of the various articles and speeches, there is no mistaking the trend in the thinking.
Quite frankly, as a politician, you either stand by your comments or you stand down. You know very well, that speeches and articles are part of the public record. In Harpers' case that public record shows no degree of support for a Federalist Canada with a strong central government. That is well documented over the last 10 plus years.

Of the latter, for starters, there is a need to get a more precisely "scientific" understanding of that word "radical/radicalized"-, to which the politics of "bland" and all parties "group-fucking" around "the centre" has attached a lot of emotional and irrational baggage, wrote Coyote.

So true...and so much fun repeating. :-)

Indeed. I agree with that. I don't think there is any question that is true. and I certainly do not see myself as any enemy of "the people" of the United States. Quite the contrary.

But between there, that place of popular "liberal" values and neoconservative or disengaged realities, the play in the press and the balance found there, and the real electoral choices available in "limited democracy", something happens to make it all more or less meaningless, or to send it off the rails. And a large part of the result is the number of peoples who are alienated from the political process entirely and don't participate, thinking there's nothing there for them that will do any good anyway. So they vote with their feet by simply not showing up, or following the herd and voting dumb (to their objective self-interests) when they do.

It's a major problem with current democracy, and a huge percentage pool of potential voters just begging to be tapped with the right policy and action set, in my view. And while I've never seen a social or class breakdown on them, the disengaged, the likelihood is large numbers of those folks, in my bet, are from the lower working class strata, marginalized "minimum wage" youth, the poor and dispossesed, and Aboriginals. Indeed, I'll bet that is the mainstream of them, though other class elements will doubtless be found there as well.

The essential problem is, there is nothing out there, no "grand vision" of the future that excites vast numbers of these "common men/women", offering them enough real hope that will motivate them enough to see a real cause worth fighting for, or to vote for. It's all just one big cluster fucking yawn around an uninspiring centre. Bland. Going through the motions.

That's what I mean by there being a need for a more "radicalized" political and policy vehicle; one that is "far reaching and goes to the fundamental root" (Oxford Dictionary) of the problems of current neoconservative capitalism, the needs of the Canadian nation and global realities. One less concerned with immediately pragmatic, short term electoral success alone, but more inclusively focussed on building a large scale movement of peoples, that works to raise their level of political understanding and awareness of socio-economic realities, and working to prepare a great movement of folks to raise hopes, "transform" current social reality, expand democracy along a broad social and economic front, and reshape class society. (Which sure as hell doesn't mean "writing off" the importance of the electoral front as "part" of that process. But "politics" and political/economic realities need to be seen in a more holistic way, if you will, than mere once every four years electioneering.

Continued next post...

From previous post...

The times are shaping up to a place, with an alignment of class and other social forces, risks to the nation and the threat of war, where more imaginative thinking and dramatic action is needed to resolve them, than this fat and satisfied notion of everybody holding hands around some ineffectual "centre", mouthing largely empty platitudes.

There is a need to challenge the system, and pose a threat to the ruling class, such as to motivate it to either substantially retreat from this neoconservative course it is on, or face the risk of simply being bypassed-, set aside.

And talk is cheap, I know that. But until "the left" and sufficient numbers of people ARE there, what "is", is going to be all that there is, and that inching its way towards, mayhaps even coming to a place where it suddenly rushes towards a final precipitous decline. And any serious person who has been around and lived through the postwar "prosperity time" until the late 70s knows that this society is in a process of decline-, the evidence is there on the streets and everywhere else around us, in our workplaces and in our wallets, and the Neocons are a manifestation of that.

That's my understanding of "radical".

StanM,
It is indeed a "sen" at the end of your name and it is, I, your uncle.
You know what they say "opinions are like a##holes, everybodies got one", boy is that an understatment when it comes to politics on the Tyee. What a boring world it would be if we all thought and acted the same.

Barryjo;
Boy have you got that right. It is amazing though that when you read some of these posts, there are folks who have taken the time to research their points of view whether of course you agree with their conclusion is another matter. Naturally, you can always tell the ones' that are solely emotional or have limited comprehension or even view the world as a negative, black and white only.
After my years in politics, you get to see the shades and things are not always that black & white.
Anyway, give us a call, I know your sister would like to hear from you. I am still in the book in Surrey using my initials. I still get lots of mileage out of having an uncle younger than I.

Barryjo;
You might read some of my earlier posts, I have alluded to some events that have happened to Garry & I over the last two years. We are now working out of our home dealing with humanitarian aid.

I'd vote for Harper just to watch him eat a toad for The Shrub and to shut Erwin up. Not! Game on.

Little ronnie erwin writes above:

"And please, do not pull the race card on me"

This is the same guy who posted this gem of racist bilge about Muslims:

"these people are animals who are not going to follow the normal ways of waging war. They want us dead."

Or how about this one about aboriginals:

"Sherry Charlie, A group of Indians sends an Indian child to be cared for by another Indian. The other Indian murders the Indian child. And this is our fault ? Give me a break."

Anyone with a scintilla of intelligence reads little ronnie as a racist. Full stop. It scares the hell out of me that anyone who would write such filth as ronnie, and thinks it is not racist, get a vote. And worse, that the MSM are letting the harper lie machine pretend that there is not an agenda that will dismantle Canada.

lynn and fabian,
the full text of the 1997 speech is here.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051213/elxn_harper_speech_text_051214/20051214/

The whole speech is tongue in cheek in which Harper was asked to explain the Canadian Political scene to a bunch of US conservatives. The comments were the preamble, which he also tells the us conservatives they come from the "second greatest nation on the earth".

The firewall speech has nothing to do with speration. It is suggesting that Alaberta take control of their pension plans so that the federal government could not raid it.

However, this speech is probably the only one relevant to this election. This is the first major speech where Harper talks about merging fiscal conservatism and social conservatism.

http://www.ccicinc.org/politicalaffairs/060103.html

Quotes:
"In particular, Canadian conservatives need to rediscover the virtues of Burkean conservatism as a key component of that balance."

"raising the age of sexual consent, providing choice in education and strengthening the institution of marriage"

"Rebalancing the conservative agenda will require careful political judgment. First, the issues must be chosen carefully. For example, the social conservative issues we choose should not be denominational, but should unite social conservatives of different denominations and even different faiths. It also helps when social conservative concerns overlap those of people with a more libertarian orientation.

Second, we must realize that real gains are inevitably incremental. This, in my experience, is harder for social conservatives than for economic conservatives. The explicitly moral orientation of social conservatives makes it difficult for many to accept the incremental approach. Yet, in democratic politics, any other approach will certainly fail. We should never accept the standard of just being "better than the Liberals" - people who advocate that standard seldom achieve it - but conservatives should be satisfied if the agenda is moving in the right direction, even if slowly.

Third, rebalancing means there will be changes to the composition of the conservative coalition. We may not have all the same people we have had in the past. The new liberal corporatist agenda will appeal to some in the business community. We may lose some old "conservatives," Red Tories like the David Orchards or the Joe Clarks. "

"Anyone with a scintilla of intelligence reads little ronnie as a racist."

Bang on Wallace. And the little shit supports Israel, only because to do so fits within US Empire schemes to steal Arab/Palestinian lands and resources, and to bring the Middle East under its Empire domination.

"The Jewish problem" for these guys was resolved by shipping it out of Europe to the Middle East, and dumping it onto Palestinians. (Otherwise, a more appropriate solution might have been to give up part of Germany, maybe even Poland to the Jews as compensation for the war crimes against them. The postwar favour to the old Nazis of course, was to make the Palestinians pay for it. Nice trick, which they may yet or not get away with.) So far as this little goosestepper is concerned, the Jews are no longer a problem.

The only ones who can't see through this nutter are his fellow Neocon pals here. This Colonel Klink wears a US stars and stripes patch as an armband instead of the now dated swastika. It's the same Colonel Klink mentality however.

This is interesting and 'thedailykos' has some interesting things to say about Harper too.

The man known to have blazed the trail for the religious-conservative movement in the United States rallied Canadian faith leaders yesterday, urging them to get behind the vote.

Ralph Reed, who led hundreds of thousands of members of the religious right to get the vote out during the era of former U.S. presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush, told delegates to a Christian conference last night to put on their work boots and tennis shoes and knock on doors.

"Come Jan. 23, there's going to be a new Canada of conservative traditional values," he told a cheering crowd of 400 people who greeted his remarks with a standing ovation.

Several Toronto-area Conservative candidates were in attendance, including Jim Flaherty, John Carmichael, Rondo Thomas, Michael Mostyn, and Tim Dobson.

dailykos.com/tag/Stephen%20harper

bulltoss, you deny the Conservative gov't under Mulroney ever did anything wrong. You believe that Mulroney accepting money from Shreiber was on the up and up regardless of the fact he was a lobbyist for Airbus and wanted in Germany for bribing politicians. You believe the resignations among Mulroney's cabinet and the gist of Stevie Cameron's books, among others was all crap.

I assume you also believe that the Liberals are also as pure as Brian Mulroney's party. Fine.

I don't. I have a problem with such people denying others the right to vote.

Elliot said

I'm smarter than you even when I'm asleep Sir John-Nemesis-Elliot-Whatever. Just get used to it. The Tyee should post a WCB type sign for you when you log in "Thank you for remembering your password for 45 straight days"

Ron

Actually they do have rights, even as prisoners.

Dangrice, Harper wasn't speaking in jest, he was speaking in tongues to the gathered faithful. And who were the faithful he was speaking to, the ones who shared in his snarky rant of Medicare, women's rights, Quebec, our social welfare system...and everything that we value as Canadians?

The Council for National Policy is "a secret ultra-right organization composed of U.S. conservative leaders, financiers and religious right activists. Founded in 1981 by three Texas conservative millionaires, the group meets three times annually with council meetings closed to the public and off-limits to the media."

This speech reveals his utter distaste and contempt for Canada and the utter joy he took in ridiculing it.

It is not credible to consider this tongue-in-cheek, considering the seriousness of the topics and the completely disparaging and ruthless way he treats Canada in this address...also what is worse this speech was a private one...not meant for us to hear.

He was playing to his own private Amerikan audience... and Canada was their shared joke.

Other speakers who have addressed the CNP include televangelist Jerry Falwell , who spoke on Christian conservatism on Aug. 25, 2004; U.S. Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld; former U.S. Attorney general John Ashcroft; Founder of Focus on the Family James Dobson, who spoke on abortion in February 1998; and Reagan-era Secretary of Defence Casper Weinberger, who spoke on national defence under Bill Clinton in January, 1999.

I see everyone is still trying to scare Canadians against voting Conservative.
You know their policies as indicated are not extreme right wing bible thumping threats.
I long for a hidden agenda. It looks kike I am about to vote for hardly any change at all.
And Wallace, you know I was talking about Islamic extremists when I commented that they want you dead ( context ? ). And the Shari Charlie quote is accurate. I stand behind everything I say, after all I said it.
But I must respond to this BS that continually comes up regarding your love for the citizens of a country inspite of their Government or Foreign Policy.
Like when people say they love the average American but hate their Republican Administration. Or those that say the have nothing against jews, but don't agree with Israels preemptive defense policy of aggression.
Don't you realize these administrations are a reflection of the people.
So in effect you are insulting these Americans and Jews.
And I am being called insensitive I certainly exersise disdrimnation and prejudice, but we all do, it's an inherint defense mechanism.

I don't suppose you've checked B's approval rating lately have you, Ron?

lynn,

The key is also that is in-public comments are quite consistent with this point of view. If he had never put down maritimers or had ever said anything positive about Canada's UN ranking etc then it would be easier to believe his remarks were out of his normal range.

redrivergirl,
George isn't trying to win a popularity contest, he's trying to run and PROTECT a country.
And yes, I have checked his numbers and they are going up all the time. So is their economy, and the deficit is halved. I know stuff like this isn't of much interest to you unless the numbers are a disaster
What has Steven Harper said that is so scary, that the Mari times have been bought and sold by the Lib, with money wasting programs, EI as a way of life, what is incorrect about this view.
Our ranking in every measurement is plumetting.
We need a change of underwear, we are beginning to stink.

Thanks for owning up ronnie, at least partially. You at least are dumb enough to admit to writing racist garbage. It scares the hell out of me to think that your ilk may have your hands on the Charter. The agenda will be clear if Flanagan's hand puppet is PM. But, ronnie, whether your masturbatory fantasy comes true or not, I know that the Flanagan view of rights only extends to people who look like him, so you will think everything is fine for you. Until, that is, you realize that you have no rights left either. What a dork.

Bogus Email Sent Around Canada Implying Harper Has Hidden Agenda
CKNW
Jan, 15 2006 - 1:40 PM

A bogus email being sent around Canada is implying Stephen Harper has a hidden agenda and will stick to his Christian values once elected as Prime Minister.

The email appears to be sent from Stand Up For Canada and claims to be signed by the Chair of the Conservative Party, Don Plett.

It thanks Conservative supporters and assures them that the party has to power to repair the social fabric of the country and Christian values.

Speaking exclusively on CKNW's Warren On The Weekend, computer expert and manager in the Justice Branch of the B-C Government, Nick Walsh, says he traced the email to Russia.

He says it appears to have been sent by someone trying to make the Conservatives look bad.

"It could be that it's an attempt by a foreign body to influence the Canadian election. Perhaps the RCMP are going to be interested in that. I don't know."

Conservative Party spokesperson Colin Metcalf says the email is not from the party or from anyone associated with the party.
______________________________________________
UPDATE:

The bogus e-mail actually originated in Canada, and skipped all over the world. There was an expert trace put on it, and the report looked like it came right out of a James Bond movie.

It bounced out of St. Petersburg Russia, then it went over to New York, it went back to Seattle, than down to Los Angeles, and then San Francisco. It went all over the place.

They simply used all of these different world locations to cloak where it was originally coming from.

At this point the experts have the name of the person who owns the host site in Canada.

They also have the IP address of the person who originated the e-mail, and they are very close to cracking the identity of the e-mail author.

It originated in Canada. Trying to disguise it by bouncing it all over the world is amateur.

How stupid can they be?

It looks like someone has some explaining to do.

not likely frankie-boy. you spend far too much time preaching to the converted lefty freaks to be intelligent. in fact you're in a tie with allan and stuey-boy for the 'most elementary cliche' award. a year from now, when canadians realize how nice it is to have a gov't with some common sense and accountability, you people will be feeling very foolish about all your ridiculous fearmongering, and you'll have to scratch your little heads and wonder how you could have believed all that shite.
btw; who's sir john?

Sorry, Ron.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1056

Plus, he's getting a lot of pressure to reduce troops. I don't want to take the chance that Harper will send Canadian peace keepers to war.

This is going to be a very interesting week. My guess is the Cons will crack.

Bulltoss, the email story that it originated in Russia etc could be damage control by the Cons. We'll soon find out, I guess.

Elliot, a boy who thinks higher learning is the ability to add "ie" or "-o" to the end of a name. Good to see your education is well served. Its certainly not evident from any of your posts over the past year.

little ronnie, the US national debt is now 8.1 trillion dollars. The deficit continues to add to the total debt at a rate of between 300 and 400 billion a year, not including the cost of the Iraq invasion.

Osama bin Laden knows how to hurt the US:

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.

He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, "using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers."

"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.

He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration."

"All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al Qaeda, in order to make generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses without their achieving anything of note other than some benefits for their private corporations," bin Laden said.

U.S. intelligence officials Monday confirmed that the transcript made public Monday by Al-Jazeera was a complete one.

As part of the "bleed-until-bankruptcy plan," bin Laden cited a British estimate that it cost al Qaeda about $500,000 to carry out the attacks of September 11, 2001, an amount that he said paled in comparison with the costs incurred by the United States.

"Every dollar of al Qaeda defeated a million dollars, by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs," he said. "As for the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

The total U.S. national debt is more than $7 trillion. The U.S. federal deficit was $413 billion in 2004, according to the Treasury Department.

"It is true that this shows that al Qaeda has gained, but on the other hand it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something that anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced.

"And it all shows that the real loser is you," he said. "It is the American people and their economy."

As for President Bush's Iraq policy, Bin Laden said, "the darkness of black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.

"So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future," bin Laden said.

You can find this iece at http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/

The numbers in the story are old ronnie. The 8.1 trillion debt noted above is current. Still, I don't expect to hear you retract.

And here is a piece of US budget analysis that places the US DEFICIT at a realistic 3.7 trillion dollars. The story notes that the reported deficits have been masked by gimmicks and political fraud, and that the 3.7 trillion is the number arrived at when generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) are used. The really frightening piece is that it is now seen to be beyond fixing through tax measures. Before you go off a quarter cocked (or less), little ronnie, why don't you read it first.

http://www.gillespieresearch.com/cgi-bin/bgn/article/id=342

Good point, Frank. You're right...it wasn't like he was deviating from his usual script.

I think he was auditioning ...obviously said all the right things...looks like they hired him. :-)

redrivergirl,
exactly which party sent troops to Afghanistan ? Could it be the Lib ?
And as far as the email being an attempt at damage control, what damage ? everything is going just fine.
Your guess about the Con about to explode, I doubt it very much. In fact this reminds me of the period before the US Presidential Election of 2004. I was the one who predicted a victory by Bush, 2005 Gordon Campbell, 2006 Steven Harper. Oh what a feeling !.

redrivergirl,

Since the e-mail claimed to be signed by the Chairperson of the Conservative Party, I imagine that the RCMP will force the host site to give up the name of the person who has the IP address.

If this is true, it's unbelievable to me that someone would be stupid enough to launch this from their home or workplace.

This reminds me of the hacker who sent loads of Viagra to Bill Gates from his home using stolen credit card numbers, just to get brag rights.

He was stunned to find the FBI at the front door of his Welsh village home.

"Law enforcement couldn't hack its way out of a wet paper bag." He boasted on an internet news site interview over the phone.

The Canadian security consultant who traced him told him it was broadcast on some radio station, and that's why they came after him.

The RCMP became involved because he hacked a site in Canada from his house.

Wallace, the US deficit in 2005 was 319 billion, down from 412 billion the year before, and yes, it includes Iraq War. The 319 billion includes 62 billion for Katrina, of which they have only spent 4 billion, so lets say it's 261 billion, that's remarkable.
When Ronald Reagan defeated and shut down the USSR without firing a shot, the deficit rose as well.
It's the cost of doing business.
Your hero Osama should realize that he cannot win a money battle with the USA, I am sure he knows that, don't you ?
Of course George Bush should do everything he can to protect his country. Are you saying they should just give into al Qaeda ?
The American people are willing to spend whatever it takes, and as far as raising more taxes to fund this war, they could add 10 cents to a pack of smokes, 50 cents on a case of beer, 5 cents on a litre of gas.
Would they do this ? Unlike Canada, who do this with irritating regularity, it's the LAST, VERY LAST thing they do. Oh God how I wish we could be more like them.

I thought it was the Ayatollah Khomeni that did this? After all he was in power at the same time and unlike Ronnie Reagan his state actually bordered the USSR.

Or maybe it was Brian Mulroney and Maggie Thatcher. They were in power at the same time as Gorby and the collapse of the Soviet Union too.

Or maybe it was Daniel Ortega, or Castro. There are just so many leaders who were in power at the same time.

And to think that history texts actually used in universities fail to grasp the importance of Reagan. Startling, since you seem so sure. Yet most of them give the credit to Gorby's political reforms, the long decline of the Soviet economy and the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan.

Strange that all those reasons are home-grown Russian-made ones.

Of course if you had said Reagan was the reason we got rid of Lyin Brian you might be getting warmer.

You are right, Frank. There was a coalition. Margaret Thatcher, Pope Paul, Ronald Reagan, Brian Mulroney, Gorbachev and many others were in on the defeat of the USSR and also, the freeing of the hostages in Iran and the defeat of USSR in Afghanistan.
Of course it was because of the US bank roll and military might that drove the train.
Once the Cold War was over ( we thought ) the west was quite happy for peace and rejuvenation and stupidly relaxed our guard.
We dealt with all kinds of sleazy figures for expediency.
That's where you get the pictures of Rumsfeld and Sadam all chummy, chummy.
The US had to wake up in this century and protect themselves.

Then Ron I assume you won't ruin my day and claim Reagan single-handedly defeated the Soviet Union without firing a shot?

Without question it was Gorby, the Russian people, the defeat in Afghanistan and the Soviet economy which hadn't worked since Reagan was an actor.

Those are the primary reasons. There were lots of contributing secondary factors and that is where the US could make its claim but all the primary reasons were within the USSR.

Oh, I don't know, Ron. Maybe, this?

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1137328267940&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News

Probably a lot more too.

The Liberals sent the troops. I will be voting NDP. But, really, at that time something did need to be done. Imagine how different it would be if what was done was a combination of international police work, intelligence, military flexing of muscle, diplomacy and strategic calling in our favours. Instead, it was used against the very people it hurt, by the very people entrusted to help them.
We need to get out of all B's endeavours. And, now.
I know Bulltoss. Anyone who uses a computer anywhere can be traced by the RCMP. Whoever is behind them isn't very bright.

Or this, as I've posted...

Ralph Reed, who led hundreds of thousands of members of the religious right to get the vote out during the era of former U.S. presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush, told delegates to a Christian conference last night to put on their work boots and tennis shoes and knock on doors.

"Come Jan. 23, there's going to be a new Canada of conservative traditional values," he told a cheering crowd of 400 people who greeted his remarks with a standing ovation.

Several Toronto-area Conservative candidates were in attendance, including Jim Flaherty, John Carmichael, Rondo Thomas, Michael Mostyn, and Tim Dobson.

dailykos.com/tag/Stephen%20harper

redrivergirl,
you sent me to a Toronto Star article that tells us that the Conference Board originally audited and verified the Conservative proposals, is now backing down because the Con is now making more promises that they didn't have to take into account.
Hardly requires DAMAGE CONTROL. I am sure this will all be worked out. I mean nobody in their right mind would seriously verify the ridiculous promises of a party that won't get into power like the NDP.
They can promise anything.

Conference Board originally audited and verified the Conservative proposals, is now backing down because the Con is now making more promises that they didn't have to take into account.

No Ron, that is spin. The Cons gave a budget to be audited that did not have those things in it. Now either they are telling fibs about the promises, or fibbing about the budget. Either way it makes them look like who they are. You are correct though, in that we'll see if it grows legs.

oops this is a guote, not underline

There is no way Canadians are going to put the Conservatives under Stephen Harper into gov't. Not a chance.

erwin, once again you miss the point and go off on a predictable tangent. The point is that the US deficit is A + B (regular spending plus Katrina), or A+B+C (regular spending plus Katrina plus Iraq), it is that the numbers in either of these calculations are BS, and that the real US deficit is in the trillions. And that deficit is being added to a total debt that is now over 8 trillion (in BS dollars). The real deficit total is beyond comprehension.

And, the deficit attached to 'regular' spending in the US is largely due to ronnie's hero ronald raygun giving money to the elites and claiming that that would create more wealth to make up the difference. Gee, anyone remember someone else claiming that a tax cut would pay for itself - revenue neutral?

In his slap-dash way erwin writes:

"The American people are willing to spend whatever it takes, and as far as raising more taxes to fund this war, they could add 10 cents to a pack of smokes, 50 cents on a case of beer, 5 cents on a litre of gas.
Would they do this ? Unlike Canada, who do this with irritating regularity, it's the LAST, VERY LAST thing they do. Oh God how I wish we could be more like them."

First little ronnie, we know you worship at the feet of US corporate interests. But, even a mouthbreather like erwin knows that taxes in the US are collected largely from working people as the elites avoid paying anything approaching a fair share through a regressive tax scheme. The US population is already screaming about gas prices and the Staussian house of cards will come crashing down with a revolt from the bottom up. That is the real reason that Bush is spying on US citizens. He is just giving the elites a jump on where to fight back when the inevitable happens.

And little ronnie wishes we could be more like the US? What a dork.

The last sentence in the first paragraph should read 'The real DEBT total is beyond comprehension.'

THE ELECTION: Election Pledges
Platform price tag leaves out some Tory promisesBy STEVEN CHASE AND CAMPBELL CLARK

Monday, January 16, 2006 Page A6

OTTAWA AND EDMONTON -- An economist hired by the Tories to evaluate the affordability of the party's platform was not given two significant promises to assess.

The Conservative pledge to fix the so-called fiscal imbalance and a patient waiting-time guarantee that would ship people to other jurisdictions if they cannot get timely treatment at home, were not costed in the package that Paul Darby was given to assess, he said yesterday.

Mr. Darby is an economist at the Conference Board of Canada, a prominent think tank hired by the Tories to assess the fiscal soundness of their platform late last year. He issued a December letter saying the platform spending would not only keep Ottawa in the black, but generate surpluses of at least $3-billion annually.

Yesterday, he was asked whether the two Tory pledges in question were part of the platform he evaluated.
Mr. Darby appeared uncomfortable with the questions, but acknowledged these two promises were not costed in the platform he examined. He noted the Tories have still not priced out those two pledges in the election platform they unveiled last week.

"They're not costed in the platform that they presented on Jan. 13th," he said in an interview. "They're still not in the platform."

He declined to say how this would affect the Conservatives' ability to run balanced budgets.

Asked last night whether this lack of costing is important, Mr. Darby replied: "Ask [them]," he said, referring to the Conservatives.

Conservative finance critic Monte Solberg said last night the Tories did not put a price tag on fixing the fiscal imbalance because that remains to be worked out in deals with premiers.

Later last night, Mr. Darby released a statement through the Tory campaign reaffirming his December assessment that the platform was fiscally sound.

Reached afterward, he declined comment on how the Tories might afford the uncosted promises or whether they should have been part of his evaluation.

"In summary, we found that the Conservative Party's economic platform is affordable in each fiscal year from 2005-2006 through 2010-2011.

In each year, there is enough fiscal room to pay down at least $3-billion a year in debt, as in the [Conservative] fiscal plan," Mr. Darby said in his statement last night.

Liberals say the lack of price tags for two major promises raises fresh questions about how Conservatives would deliver on their platform without running a deficit.

Mr. Goodale said fixing the fiscal imbalance alone could end up costing the Tories as much as $40-billion over five years.

"I really believe that Mr. Harper has gone quite literally to every province and every premier and promised he will fix their problem, leaving them with some vague understanding of something," Mr. Goodale said.

"You can't promise to fix the fiscal imbalance and then not include a cost number for it," he said.

The Tories say they are confident they can fund fixing the fiscal imbalance from projected budget surpluses over the next five years.

The Conservatives project their spending plans will leave about $22-billion of surplus cash over the next five years.

The Conservatives said they would pay for their wait-time guarantee from the 2004 health-care agreement, when Ottawa promised billions of dollars in additional cash to the provinces over the next decade.

"They reached an agreement saying this is what is necessary for them to fund their health-care needs adequately over the next number of years," Mr. Solberg said. "If that's in fact the case, then what is the problem with meeting these targets?"

So if Reagon "won" the Cold War... how come they still have nuclear warheads aimed at our cities. Wow! That Erwin guy just gets flakier.

(Monday on CPAC)
Jack Layton:

"The Liberals are going into the repair shop for awhile. And while they are in the repair shop, they are going to be thinking about themselves, not you."
______________________________________________
Paul Martin: "Give me your vote"

Jack Layton: "Lend us your vote."

Re Ron Erwin:

Don't feed the Trolls!

R. Smiley

For all you Ralph Reed fans:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/15/AR2006011500915_pf.html

By the time Canada's own neo con gets in office, there isn't going to be anyone left south of the border for him to brownnose.

R. Smiley

And for a fair shot at all three national parties, the election is between Hear no evil (Layton), See no Evil (Martin), and Speak no Evil (Harper)

LOL - Ralph Reed!

Does Canada even have an equivalent? Ted Byfield is too charming to place in that category, irrespective of the similar politics.

I guess Stock is the only viable contender for the role.

...okay, maybe 'charming' isn't the right word...how about 'irascible & funny'...

Lynn,

I think when you look at Harper's speeches, you have to get seperate the rhetoric from the issues. There are real differences in his ideas of government, social services, and politics, which are clearly there. Harper doesn't lack respect for Canada, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have strong differences over the role of government. If I was doing a speech to a bunch of Americans, I would prbably mock Canada, (we live in igloos, etc, etc.) for the sake of making a connection with the audience. Nothing against Canada, just self mockery is away of hitting it off.

Buzz's pick's for BC implicitly choses Hedy over Svend.

The CAW just posted their endorsed NDP candidates (as per their strategic voting strategy). I am not much for the CAW but it is interesting they passed over the chance to endorse Svend. NDP pix for BC were:

Victoria: Denise Savoie
Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca: Randall Garrison
Nanaimo-Cowichen: Jean Crowder
Vancouver Island: N. Catherine Bell
BC Southern Interior: Alex Atamaneko
Burnaby-New Westminster: Peter Julian
Burnaby-Douglas: Bill Siksay
Vancouver East: Libby Davies
New Westminster-Coquitlam: Dawn Black
Vancouver-Kingsway: Ian Waddell
Surrey North: Penny Priddy
Skeena-Buckly Valley: Nathan Cullen

I guess everywhere else Buzz prefers the Grits, wonder what Paul promised him?

I too have little time for Buzz Hargrove. He shouldn't get involved in BC politics and his "recommendations" may alienate potential union voters who don't even follow the union's brass's voting decrees. His heavy handed push to get voters to vote Liberal over the NDP has done some harm to Layton while the voting public aren't buying his arguments since they appear to favour Harper's Conservatives with a 10+% lead in the polls. He's not even from BC, he's from Ontario! His recommendations may do more harm to BC 'protest voters' who don't like Ontario big shots teling them how to cast their ballots. Frankly, Carole James has more credibility than Buzz in BC!

Vancouver Center Green Candidate: http://jared.vanalive.ca

So who's is gonna be at this point...Svend or Hedy?

I haven't seen the polls for Vancouver Centre since The Province ran that cover story a week ago...

just saw a hilarious headline: "Svend gets support of Fire Fighters". i know quite a few fireme who must be very pissed off about this one. talk about union leadership being out of touch with its members.

Elliot, you clearly know nothing about unions. The reality is that firefighters are closer to their union leadership than any union I have dealt with. The nature of their work demands that firefighters work together, plan together, and stand up for one another. Firefighters look closely at who will best represent their interests and are not then afraid to take a stand. Try again little elliot, another clean miss here. Missing the mark is your trademark little elliot. Try harder next time.

and yet another crock of shite from the wally. only an out-of-touch lefty could believe that firemen would support a cowardly opportunist like svend robinson. give me a break wally-boy. try to touch the real world at least every once in a while.

Svend beat grand theft (over $60,000+PST+GST)charges claiming that he has mental disease of being bipolar (whatever it means except being bi-sexual). If this is true he should also mind old British Law stating that two kinds of people can not become Members of the House of Commons:
1. Members of the House of Lords
2. Lunatics

He is not a Lord, thanks God.

Hedy Fry stated in a Commons that "as I speak they are burning crosses in Prince George". Nobode else has seen or heard about them. She must have undergone some mysterious Vodoo ceremonies and is hearing voices. Did she apologize for it?

Well, as one who has told my share of "burning crosses" jokes at Fry's expense, I'm sick of hearing about it every single time her name comes up.

Yes, she's sung mea culpa quite a bit over that, and she's paid a heavy price for statements - more than they warrant, this far down the road.

I mean, it's not like she stole jewelry (Svend), or got pulled over for drunk driving (Campbell), did cocaine while in cabinet (Boisclair), or smuggled a mercedes full of booze into the country (Zeisman).

Yes, as I've said before, Svend's mental state has been dubious for some time (long before the ring-thing).

There are a lot of very competent, low-key, non-exhibitionist, effective gay men in Parliament (on all sides of the House). They don't need their credibility diluted by Robinson. His time has come & gone, and thank you very much.

elliot, I realize your comments are a day old and perhaps you've altered your stance several times since writing them.

However, when a union endorses a specific candidate it normally happens after the local membership (in a local union membership meeting), debate the pros and cons.

You see, union members actually get to exercize their democratic rights far more than non-union or anti-union types such as yourself.

You see democratic process is what keeps unions current despite the wads of cash right-wing politicians get from bad employers to bust unions.

"Talk of union leadership being out of touch with its membership," you say.

elliot, what are you talking about? You've been reading too much old Jimmi Hoffa stuff fellow.

He's been part of a support beam for most of your life. Move on and get real because you are dragging the level of debate here down with you poor grasp of fundamentals.

T

talk to any firemen lately allan?

Hmm. Was this endorsement because Svend is so good at putting his own personal fires, or is it because the IAFF thinks Hedy spends more time worrying about whats burning in Prince George rather than whats burning in Vancouver?

Nah, did check and the IAFF may have a grounds for endorsement in this case.

In January 2003, NDP MP Svend Robinson introduced a private member’s motion in the House of Commons addressing this critically-important issue. M-334 reads: "M-334 – That, in the opinion of this House, the government should provide additional funding to Canadian fire fighters which would enable them to participate in the International Association of Fire Fighters’ Hazardous materials Training for First responders Program, thereby providing them with the skills necessary to respond effectively to the aftermath of chemical or biological attacks. "

http://www.iaff.org/politics/ca/content/images/HM-WMDFact2003.pdf

+ Issues regarding compensation for firefighters fmailies that the Liberals opposed.

However, I hope they don't go as far as bringing out that cheesy rented film firetruck like they did in the civics..

Hey, did I miss a meeting? Is there a different set of laws for executive public servants, or for members of the current ‘politically correct’?
What place does a holder of public office who committed grand theft have running again for office??
What if the furnace repairman or the cable-guy/girl were to swipe some jewellery while on the job???
I’ll tell ya what would transpire: He/she would be fired immediately, probably end-up in the clink, and never be able to get a security clearance again… Not even allowed to enter the States…
As Samuel Jackson might say about this country, “Man, your ass used to be beautiful – what happened!?”