The sole purpose of Wal-Mart's "charity" is to divert attention away from their despicable business practices.If they had any real idea of what charity was,they would pay all employees equally,allow them to have their unpaid lunch,provide decent benefits,not use illegal immigrant janitors.Can you say smoke and mirrors.

.....and as for the Vancouver store, just watch next June when Sullivan and his cronies allow the store. One day the people will wake up to smell the roses and there will be none.

Wallmart, never shop there, shoddy goods!

The Wal Mart public relations firm was hired and helped get the NPA elected, it took Wal Mart execs less than 24 hrs to get into the media and start talking about the new Van store . They said that their going to reassess
the public need for such a store and start a process, they will have the horse and pony show but this thing is a done deal. Currently in the US Wal Mart is under the largest civil suit in US history , 1.2 mil women are taking them to court via class Acton law suits under discrimination . They are trying hard to improve their public image via charity work or green initiatives but give me a break, 90% of the money is tax deductible. People in Van should start to organize now as this process is just a formality at this point. We all know how Wal Mart
1) Treats its workers, the richest corporation lowering standards in the community.
2) Destroying small business etc

And by the way Wal Marts usually gets huge tax breaks and incentives to set up, they are huge corporate welfare
bums.

http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/big_box_mart

Click on the big box mart video also.

Wal*Mart is a wonderful place to work. I have been following every talk show in the US and Canada for years. One thing I can say for sure, is that it is almost impossible to find an employee or ex-employee who will trash WAl* Mart. There must be something good to be said about this.
In fact, you usually get ex-employees who are greatful that they had a chance to train for something else and yet still work for them. They are very flexible with empyoyees who need work to get them through.
With 1.3 million present empyoyess now and over 10 million in the past 10 years, you are bound to here about some problems, but by and large they are an excellent corporation.

My understanding of the windmill and other "environmental" toys Walmart drew into its revised and failed plan to develop in Vancouver, were actually props that didn't work.

But then that's not surprising given how Canadian and American taxpayers continue to prop that company up through corporate welfare.

Now they are taking advantage of dear old ladies who think they are actually doing good for the environment.

No doubt some of them will be at the next public hearing into Walmart's next smoke and mirrors production.

I know all about Wal Mart's suspicious business practices and stingy wages, but I got some good tires there a few weeks ago for $37.50 a piece, so I'm a bit hypocritically challenged on this one.

It's OK Truman, we don't expect everyone on the Tyee to be enlightened. At some point in the future you may figure out that the lowest price is not the best deal. One thing I find curious though... Why do all you Wal-Mart shoppers get dressed up in your best sweat pants to go out? Is it because they have fine dining right in the store?

if you don't like walmarts practise then don't shop there, most of their competitors have good deals, you really do get what you pay for, specially with something as important as a good winter tire.

ronnie you really are showing your true colours here, anyone who wants a good look at walmart should watch the documentary on Rubbermaid!

if you want more information on the working conditions at Wal Mart read:

nickel and dimed: on not getting by in america
author: Barbara Ehrenreich

So now I've caught onto Ron Erwin's game plan.

When he realizes there is absolutely nothing intelligent he can write to counter the facts, he tries humour like his line above:"It is almost impossible to find an employee or an ex employee who will trash Wal*mart".

Ron, Google Walmart and be prepared for a few surprises.

Truman Green, do you put your families health and life at risk driving them about on the cheapest tires you could find?

The type of windmills proposed by WalMart (horizontal axis) will only generate power less than 10% of the days of a typical year in Vancouver. The start-up speed of the turbines is greater than the windspeed on over 90% days in Vancouver.

The renewable energy expert WalMart hired to evalutate the site told them that wind turbines were NOT a good idea. They ignnored the advice of the consultant.

A renewable energy expert from BCIT has also publicly stated that the wind turbines on WalMart would not be effective. As he pointed out the wind turbines would actually have a negative effect on the environment - it takes more energy to produce and install the wind turbines than they would produce.

I won't shop at Wal-Mart even for an umbrella on a rainy day, but to complain about what they do give to charity is garbage. How much do small businesses contribute to Charity? Most charitable donations are out of some form of guilt, does that make Wal-Mart's reasons any different? Suppose Wal-Mart gave 10% of their earnings to charity, what would the reaction be? Probably no different because most opposition to Wal-Mart is ideological: having nothing to do with how they spend their money and everything to do with the fact that they make money. Wal-Mart is simply proof that you can't go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator, and in shopping that is "low prices."

Folks in Vancouver desperate to shop at Wal-Mart should simply drive out to the suburbs for their "savings." The lack of a Wal-Mart in Vancouver is one of those small things that I like about the city but... this whining about Wal-Mart in Vancouver being a "done deal" because the NPA hold a de-facto majority is ridiculous. I agree that the NPA is very likely to allow Wal-Mart to open in Vancouver, but that is only as lame as the lack of suspense when COPE opposed Wal-Mart. What a shock! In a city where we have a "free enterprise party" and an "anti-profit party" the battle lines are clearly drawn. The voters of Vancouver returned a free enterprise party to power after a three year hiatus and I am sure the Wal-Mart issue wasn't far from some voters minds.

allen , I am confused, I am not sure what you are trying to say when you state "there is nothing intelligent I can write to counter the facts " maybe you should READ my post again. I am not trying to counter any facts. I am mereley making an obsevation about the lack of employee bitching. So I am not sure what you are trying top say.
I am not going to your link, I never go to any lonks posted here.

Mall*Wart is not that much uglier than any other corporate entity. Give to safe charities (sick kids are always a winner) for the PR image and tax breaks, say you're "green" (while selling cut-price Kermits from China) and use your financial muscle to get your way under the radar. Oh, and cheering about "volunteerism" helps. Free labour is even better than cheap labour.

Its like Barstucks. They are so aggressive and well financed that they can scoop any available prime property before any unique, local enterprise has a chance.

Would you buy a $10,000.00 SUV made in China ? That choice is coming very soon. There is already a sales office set up in LA. This is a question that all Americans are going to have to answer soon.
I am sure GM is not happy .

Wal-Mart sucks.

While I was living in Knoxville Tenasee there was no where else to go but Wal-Mart and other big box stores. All of the nice little familly stores had been knocked out. And with that goes comunity and culture.

More to the point: would you buy an SUV period? That's not about choice. It's a hideous abberation

Sorry Ron E, but there isn't much I can do about your confusion.

And I posted neither links nore lonks, but simply suggested you Google Walmart.

That's not a link. It's a suggestion Ron.

Hey, I realize you aren't countering any facts.

That's been obvious here for some time, but if you do opt to type Walmart into your Google search engine (or any other search engine), you will find lots of those Walmart employees and former employees, including a good many managers telling you what you (Ron) do not want to hear.

Rob, thank you for the clarification on Walmart's green energy scam.

alln, I have done that, as I say when you have that many employess you are bound to have some complaints. But there are not very many in the grand scheme of things.

Don't even both Allen, ron's intellectually lazy and has demonstrated in the past that he has no intention of collecting facts from all sides of the arguement. Here's the first of many posted stories that I found after a search that took all of 10 seconds:

“I’d like to share my story about Wal-Mart and its health care to be sure that Union members continue to fight to protect the benefits earned through their collective bargaining agreement. If you do nothing and your employer implements a plan similar to what Wal-Mart offers, the health and safety of working families is at risk.

Very few of my co-workers have insurance through Wal-Mart because it is gimmick insurance. If an employee works enough hours long enough to qualify, Wal-Mart’s health insurance is extremely expensive and doesn’t cover very much at all. Immunizations? Not covered. Well-child care? Not covered. Preventative care? Guess what? Wal-Mart doesn’t cover that either. Because Wal-Mart workers pay high premiums for very little coverage, it is more cost-effective for them to rely on county-provided services instead. This means that taxpayers subsidize health benefits for Wal-Mart’s workers.

I was injured on the job October 6, 1999, while locked in my store overnight doing inventory. Currently I live with the pain and suffering of a herniated disk in my neck that happened that night. When I first got injured, I reported it right away and I knew I needed to go to the hospital but the general manager would not let me leave the store. Finally another manager called my son to pick me up and he unlocked the door so I could go to the hospital. Before I was injured, I had health care through Medicaid. Wal-Mart refused to pay my workers’ compensation benefits from my injury, and then Medicaid dropped me because the injury happened at work. Now I have no insurance coverage at all; I cannot get it through Wal-Mart or anywhere else.

Wal-Mart has ignored my bills and my pain. The actions of Wal-Mart and Sam’s Club have delayed my workers’ compensation. As a result, I have accumulated tens of thousands of dollars in debt from medical bills, lost my apartment, my credit is ruined and I live in pain every day. My doctor has recommended surgery in the future to alleviate my suffering, but because Wal-Mart continues to deny my claim, I cannot afford to pay for it.

There is a health care crisis in the United States and working families must stand together to ensure that all employers don’t follow the example that is being set by Wal-Mart.”

wow, absolutely overwhelming evidence.

Ronnie, visit this link, it's right up your alley.

http://americansforwalmart.org/index.html

I got a telemarketing call from India the other day, no idea how they got my number and they would not tell me, seems like someone is selling our personal info to companies in foreign countries, and you like this don't you ronnie?

the more I read your useless rhetoric ronnie the more you remind me of deyong!

oh my god, not the walmart thing again? don't you lefties ever get tired of the cliches? every week there's a new topic to get a hate-on for. this is boring guys. get with the program. not every ceo in the world is in it to screw the little guy. grow up already.

hey clubofrome, I'm well aware that the cheapest price isn't always the best way to go, but these tires were the same ones I saw priced way higher around Surrey. Anyways, I make it a point NOT to shop at Wal Mart in spite of being somewhat attracted to the bargains eh. I was also trying to suggest that, as usual, there's a big picture involved in this question. I know Wal-Mart shovels all kinds of second rate goods from China, but I'll bet there's a few hundred thousand Chinese workers who've got employment because of it. Sure, Wal-Mart's sleazy, but so is just about every other business these days. Check out some of the flyers you got in the mail this week. Almost every word is an exaggeration. Retailing, in general, has degenerated into a huge pile of bs and hype.

To anyone who has not been into a Wal*Mart. The products they sell are the same products sold everywhere else. They have brand names and exactly the same items you would see in a Canadian Tire , Safeway, Overwaitea. Nothing shoddy about their offerings.
Look out for the $10,000.00 SUV ( or $4,000.00 compact car ) coming to you soon.

does this mean there will be fewer baby boomers retiring here on their nice pension plans from the car plants back east?

Nothing shoddy. Its a bunch of junk. Rows and rows of it. And if you can get the products at other locations like Canadian tire do we really need a Wal*Mart.

Do you work for Wal*Mart?

You know, freedom is an interesting thing. If you do not like Walmart, then do not shop there.

If you do not like cheap goods for China, don't buy them. However, don't think for one minute you are doing the Chinese workers any favours by throwing them out of work. Most Chinese would JUMP at the ideal of working for even $6.00 an hour training wage.

The truth is the middle aged,white union leaders are seeing their power base dissolve. They day of high wages for low skill jobs are over whether they like it or not.

We live in an information based, skills based economy. It is adapt or die.

Or snivel, wait for handouts, blame others, and die.

What is more, there is nothing new in this phenomena.

It is the left's choice.

The whole thing is about supply and demand. A vast majority of people like to shop at Walmart because they have a lot of product and their prices are very competitive. And thats the problem, they constantly squeeze the little guy for cheap product and they have no conscience, they know folks will come for cheap goods.
Walmart is a convenient target for what is wrong with our system of doing business. Publicly traded companies overall have only one responsibilty and that is to increase shareholders stock value. The stock market is a very parasitical operation that was never meant to be a long term operation and was started to sustain the economy during a war. It is evil and much of what is wrong in our country today is the result of the ruthlessness of publicly traded companies.
Walmart really doesn't care about anything other than the bottom line like all stock market companies.
I don't know where it will stop but big oil is one example of how evil they are. Iraq is nothing more than a play to secure more oil to increase their market share. Pharmaceutical companies now come on TV and tell you what to go ask your doctor for, that is a new form of marketing their products and they tell you your doctor has free samples... direct marketing or what, used to be we went to the doctor and he would tell us what was wrong and prescribe what was necessary. It seems to be working, most everyone is now on some kind of medications. How about food, supersize everything to get market share and do they care about obesity problems nope, they care about market share.
Let Walmart be the rallying cry but the whole sytem is screwed and I really don't know how they can fix it.

barryjo, you are by far the most intelligent and insightful person that posts on this board, which is most made up of angry, middle aged, undereducated, unemployed white people watching life pass them by.

That does not describe you.

So Working Man, now that you have described yourself so well won't you tell us how many middle-aged white guys are banging hammers for you.

And how about those oh so many apprentices you keep employed year round along with all the TQers who no doubt are to high skilled and employable.

Working Man, I am quite amazed a guy with your expressed credentials would have a minute for lefties like us.

Is it that you are paid to bs the masses on behalf of anti-union employers or are you out of work and angry as well.

Good to see you brought the idiot, (sorry) Elliot with you. The pair of you are good book ends for Ron Erwin.

Again, Working Man, how many apprentices are you employing year round?

ursus' yes you are correct that the overpayed CAW workers won't be retiring here.It's a reality my friend that we have no business making automobiles unless we get the costs down.
brain' we buy from Wal*Mart rather than Canadian Tire when the goods are cheaper.
If the goods at Wal*Mart are rows and rows of junk, you must say the same thing about Canadian Tire, The Bay, Sears and everywhere else.

By the way I have a pretty good job I am a hard working mother, and I am concerned about the future for my children.

I believe by reading your comments that you pro Wal*Mart guys are a bunch of Wal*Mart PR people. Or maybe Working man has his finger in the pot somewhere.

Why else are you guys sooooooo horny to get a Wal*Mart. Its a bit odd.

Ron is like the Big Box guy,

http://jibjab.com/Home.aspx

and the market fundamentalist that feel they are someday going to get the trickle down effects of beating people up on their race to the bottom. An insult by ilk like Ronnie, Elliott or Working Man makes my day, the fact that their insulting the forum says volumes about our intellectual nature and value of the forum, he makes me feel good everytime a red neck insults me.

Go check out blogs on the Canadian taxpayers federation website , very scary fascists crap, one guy bragged about his hobby being outward migration. My god if you want the fringe go and mock these folks, It's almost like picking
on handicapped kids, I feel kind of guilty taking advantage of the challenged.

We all know that Wal Mart is a monster, 7 times larger than its closest competitor, they use predatory pricing to kill the small guy. I can give you many example of this but just one for now.

When they released the latest addition of the Harry Potter book it was going to be a great day for independent book sellers, that was their big pay day. Well Wal Mart decided to flood the market with the book with a 30% off discount, they intended to lose money on the book just to hurt the little book sellers, this kind of conduct is typical of Wal mart

They also force everything off shore, drive down wages in the retail sector and have an appalling record on human rights etc, Wal Mart is the trend setter and we must make them accountable.

1) Lets investigate their relationship with the NPA , see if we can find some dirty money.
2) Boycott and start an education campaign to picket all Wal Mart's if this new store goes threw.
3) Direct action, be creative.
4) Start to lobby council , start email campaigns to all city council and staff.
5) Get small business owners to lobby council, image 1000 small business owners making public statements
regarding Wal Mart, turn up the pressure.
6) If the store gets approval, get some youth and immigrant activism going, lets unionize the store. All stores, make the treat to head office, If you put this store in VAN than its war on Wal mart , coast to coast to coast. A national Wal Mart union campaign. Just my 2 cents.

http://jibjab.com/Home.aspx

Check out the link, Brain don't sweat it , certain folks just don't get it, they don't understand economics. Their like the big box guy above, Their is Ron bragging about low paid labor in China and is getting excited about laid of auto workers. Ron can't wait to be the next banana republic full of low paid workers, somehow he feels sorry for the executives at GM and TELUS, less money circulating threw the economy is good, recession is good. Ask yourself when workers get laid off or out sourced, who
benefits, does your TELUS bill go down, the price of goods. If Ron things his SUV is going to cheaper he is dreaming, the only think that's going to be reduced is the money in the local economy. People will have
less money to attend the red neck convention in Abbotsford, or less money for Ron's church.
Instead of trying to reduce wages for others why not try and raise the standarts for yourself,

Or maybe working Man is the Wal Mart greeter, who knows.

Looks like all the wing nuts have landed here. Good, my kind of thread. Barryjo sums it up the same as Ed would. Nice and easy to understand for those who use their brains for independant thought. WM contradicts himself from one thread to the next, but it seems to be based on his disdain for the so called leftist trade unions. Like the advocates for the war on drugs. When asked why we can't legalize heroin or pot they just get this glazed over look like you were advocating everyone to start using. The Toronto cop interviewed recently says how do you enforce it? He can't even wrap his mind around the concept! Look at Holland and then get back to us. Lumping all the posters here into the lefty union bag isn't smart, nor is dumping all WalMart shoppers into the worst dressed top ten list.

There is only one response suitable for Ron. C.I.R.E.

Truman, as you get riled up you get closer to the truth. All corporations are not just sleazy, they're psychotic. By definition. So the message should becoming clearer. Don't get caught on the consummer treadmill. Once they have you it's as hard to kick as crack cocaine. And which addict does more damage in the long run?

Shopping price is one of the worst traits that these consummer addicts have developed. That and collecting two for one coupons for big burgers with double cheese and extra large fries with a 60oz. diet coke.... Clogging our streets with chocking fumes from gas guzzling cars, a gridlock of zombies driving to the next superstore, while other addicts lie in waiting, ready to relieve them of their purchases. If that's not funny, somebody shoot me....

That's the false bill of goods that's being peddled. In reality, Vancouver is an orgy of speculative real-estate gouging and is quickly emerging as a servant economy.

clubofrome,
You say "when asked why we can't legalize heroin or pot they get a glazed over look like you were advocating using".
Every case in history I can find where they legalized or decriminalized drugs, drug use shot up dramatically and the decision was reversed or in some cases they are attempting to recriminalize it at this time. In China years ago when they legalized opium an estimates half of the poulation became addicted to it and they had to make it illegal again, thats just one of many, many cases. As for advocating using, legalization normalizes drug use and it send a message to our youth that drugs aren't that bad for you. In 1975 in Alaska they decriminalized marijuana and the rates of youth using pot went up so dramatically they recriminalized it again in 1992.
Alcohol and tobacco account for more costs to our health care system and society in general than all the illegal drugs combined so I'm not sure legalization is the way to go.
Addiction will always be a part of society but to surrender and legalize drugs is not the answer. The notion that people are going to use drugs so lets legalize them is flawed at best, thats like saying people are going to be pedophiles so lets just legalize it.
The only benefit from legalizing drugs would be to the big publicly traded pharma companies that would make all the profits that the drug traffickers used to make, they become the pushers and we the taxpayers will pay to supply them to addicts.
Cluboforme, you say all corporations are sleazy and psychotic, well the publicly traded drug companies are some of the biggest corporations around so are you saying its okay for them to line their pockets off of addicts misery but its not okay for Walmart to open a store.
Kind of strange logic.

barryjo , by your logic as long as their are scummy corporations than why care about Wal Mart, like the Cop catching someone driving drunk and saying oh well, they must be people doing worse things, Go ahead.

The typical Wal Mart experience,

1) 99% of the time make by car, once you have driven 15 - 30 min out of your neighborhood you get the pleasure of finding a parking spot , dodging carefully around for another 15 min trying not to kill anyone in the process

Once parked you run past the overflowing garbage cans and brutal Florissant light and 200 security cameras and in you go,
Wow, sweat shop prices made for me, fill up your cart with all that crap you never know you needed, yep your saving money now, wow how about the 97 cent bottle of coke, What a deal, a entire bag of chip for only 95 cents,
the fun never ends.

Okay now for the 20 min ling up of crying kids and burned out cashiers, what savings and only half a day gone from your weekend.

Don't forget to say goodbye to the creepy greeter aka security guard. What a wonderful day screwing the little guy who lives around the corner. I hate to say if folks Wal Mart is not cheap,

Barryjo says, regarding legalizing drugs: "That's just like saying people are going to be pedophiles so let's just legalize it." I would suggest that you give some more thought to this strange non sequitor, Barryjo. Perhaps the rest of your argument shows a similar deficit of ability in logic. Whatever you think about legalizing drugs, I bet you can't find anyone to argue that molesting children should be legal. Did you say that half of the population of China was addicted to opium? Depending on how long ago you're talking about, that would mean at least 500,000,000 people eh. Maybe check your facts on this one too, eh. The war on drugs benefits noone except the drug gangs and the legal vocations which depend on it for employment--police, lawyers, judges, prison guards, etc etc etc. Regarding heroin, I believe that everyone who wants to use it is already using it. Can you identify any of your friends, for instance, who would start injecting into their blood stream if heroin becomes legal? I sure can't. I've known a lot of heroin users in my day and everyone of them had serious problems before they every heard of the stuff. They are, in reality, self-medicating, not unlike a diabetic who depends on insulin injections for survival. I know you'll never accept the analogy, but to me it's a no-brainer. Heroin costs one hundred and fifty dollars a kilogram to produce in Columbia or Afghanistan. By the time it reaches the streets of Vancouver it's worth one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The ONLY way to combat the drug gangs is to destroy the value of their product; and the only way to destroy the value is to legalize drugs and prosecute drug addicts if they commit other criminal acts--not merely for possessing or using drugs. Barryjo, it's just not true that, as you say, that: "Every case that I can find in history where they legalized drugs, drug use shot up dramatically..."

Stuart thank you for the link. I will check it out when I get a chance!

Wal*Mart "oh I mean" Working*Man Are you trying to get the contract to build Wal*Mart? I really want to know.

This is a great place to market your product eh.

I dont believe Vancouver will be a better place with a Wal*Mart and we dont need the shitty jobs they have to offer.

Also immigrants should not be happy to work for 6 dollars an hour. My husband immigrated here a year ago and now hes got a 23.5 dollar an hour job and he's happy. People should not be made to settle for these shitty low paying jobs. My husband came from a place where he made 4 dollars a day working in a flower plant it was a horrible place to work many people become very ill from the toxic fumes, breathing problems, infertile ect. Its very sad. And where were the flowers heading? Canada, to places like Wal*Mart.

Wal*Mart expliots everyone in its path.

hey working man you should take your own advice since you are one working with concrete, like it doesn't get much less skilled then that.

Whew, what a debate.
When my parents were kids they had small corner stores and marketplaces where everyone knew everyone and a great many of the goods were locally procured. When i was a kid our 'box' stores were woodwards and saan, where they had toothepaste and unfashionable clothes on sale for a dollar forty nine. I wonder what the future of retail holds, say twenty, thirty years from now? Clearance sales on spaceships and GM pets, with weekly specials on crystal meth?

barryjo, your concern about increased drug use among youth is commendable, but hardly reason not to legalize some of it.

After all there are few, if any, restrictions on how you obtain or consume the most potent and deadly drug on the street.

In BC you can now get it at the local likker-warehouse down the street seven days a week.

Despite the hype about BC Bud, booze remains the drug of choice here and elsewhere simply because of its availablility.

No little baggies to hide. Just stagger out the door with your flat of 24 and hey the world's yours until you need to come back for more.

Even then, local cab drivers now purchase and deliver it directly to your home and I've never heard of a police sting on that slight bend in drinking laws.

In fact the people who peddled it before it was legal (or, more precisely, when it wasn't legal), became multi-billionaires and until most of that taxable wealth was sneakily removed from Canada, those former bootleggers enjoyed a pretty good standing among Canada's elites.

I'm not advocating making Marc Emery a Senator or anything like that but why should pot smokers continue to suffer from a legal ban on a drug that is many times less dangerous than
booze?

To protect old bootlegging dynasties?

The idea that the major pharma piggies will take over and control pot sales, I think, is a bit premature and would do absolutely nothing to stop the homegrown industry, primarily because those pharma piggies are addicted too, but the monkey on their back is the dollar bill.

Legalize the damned stuff, put age restrictions on it and apply a tax so finally this country will get something out of it rather than another massive police bill for nabbing small time dealers and casual users.

Ron Erwin: "One thing I can say for sure, is that it is almost impossible to find an employee or ex-employee who will trash WAl* Mart."

Ever tried a google search? Seemed pretty easy to me. Secondly, only the US government is sued more than them. Yup, great place. LOL!

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/03/ma_276_01.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/23/national/main579655.shtml

http://www.lieffcabraser.com/wal-mart.htm

http://www.ufcw135.org/wal/wal_litigation_over_sex_discrim.htm

hey ronnie if the people with pensions are no longer retiring here who is going to keep the land pimps going, uh oh that means gordo's one horse economy might tank!

[That's the false bill of goods that's being peddled. In reality, Vancouver is an orgy of speculative real-estate gouging and is quickly emerging as a servant economyQUOTE]

good points skip tracer, dam good.

WalMart sells crap, and the whole place creeps me out. That being said, I have no problem with them setting up Walmart on Marine drive, as long as they do anything to mask that damn generic red and blue aluminum siding look. I don't care if the win mills work or not, they could put giant fallices on top and it would be an improvement.

Truman Green,
I started researching the subject of drug legalization for about ten years ago. I have volumes of documented facts and I wouldn't waste my time spreading misinformation, in fact, if history dictated that drug legalization was the answer I would be all for it.
Allan suggests legalizing it and putting a tax on it would be beneficial. The problem is almost all addicts don't work and can't pay for their drugs so the tax collected from those who could pay for the drugs would go towards government drug distribution programs.
Most folks think that legalization will cut down on property theft and I think it would to a certain extent but the cost to provide these now legal drugs to addicts would nullify any benefit from reduced property crime, the price would be astronomical to provide and distribute the drugs.
What drugs would we legalize? Do we legalize crystal meth and crack? And I'm not so sure the pot of today is as harmless as you say, especially for kids who are in the deveopmental stage. They are currently doing many research projects because they believe pot can possibly induce schizophrenia in people. This isn't the stuff from the 60's, its a powerful drug.
I don't believe legalizing pot would make much difference in the grand scheme of things but it would put us on a slippery slope and what would be legal after that, and then what, where do you draw the line.
Truman green says "the only way to combat drug gangs is to destroy the value of their product". I don't think so, all that legalization would do is transfer the profits from the illegal gangs to the legal public pharmaceutical companies and the addict and society still pay the price one way or the other.
My point in comparing legalizing drugs to phedophilia was, where do we draw the line. Up until recently drug addiction was considered to be very unacceptable to society. Now we are saying "they're just sick people lets legalize drugs and give them all they want". Once again where is the proverbial line in the sand drawn.
I know most of those who read this are very left thinking, civil libertarians and we are entitled to our opinion but history is always the best indicator of what works and what doesn't.
The bottom line is that drugs will be legalized at some point because big bucks will make sure it happens. If you don't think big bucks are behind it google in "harm reduction conferences" and see who the sponsors are...surprise surpise...drug companies.

I wouldnt want my children to think drugs are legal/ok. Keeping drugs illegal at least sends a message that it is wrong to do drugs. I think doing any drugs including booze leads one to believe others are ok and there starts the experimentation process. Which leads to some sad stories. Not always. But I have seen it happen many times.

Barryjo, I think you've identified the greatest myth of all regarding illegal drugs: THAT THEY ARE VERY VALUABLE SUBSTANCES and even if legal the big pharmaceuticals and criminals will still be reaping huge profits. The fact is that heroin, for instance, is so cheap to produce that a couple of medium sized companies could easily supply the entire world market. In fact, Barryjo, if this was not true, I would agree with everything you have to say. I repeat: The demand and market for heroin is a phony market. Less than 2 percent of the population of Vancouver is even remotely interested in using it. About one percent is addicted to it. Barryjo, you are simple dead wrong when you write that the big drug companies are interested in taking over the illegal drug industry. Why would they want to market pot, for instance, when most users could simply grow their on on their sundecks or the brother-in-law's farm--if it was legal. Why would Merck want to get involved in heroin production when the current production costs are about 4 cents an injection and the selling price of legal heroin would be mostly comprised of the cost of paraphernalia or the wages of professionals who might aid in injections. Barryjo, you've based your entire rationale on one of the numerous myths surrounding the current war on drugs. Personally, I have no use for illegal drugs. I tried pot in the 60's and became so well known for merely complaining about dizziness and headaches that my friends advised each other not to waste any pot on me. Regardless, I understand that there are many people whose suffering has been greatly reduced because of its therapeutic value. Barryjo, you are correct when you say that drugs will eventually be legalized--not because of "big bucks" as you say, but because it will be seen to be the only sensible thing to do. It's extremely obvious eh, Barryjo. You say you've been studying this issue for ten years. I've been studying it since l969 when my sister Jackie Green,a naive police informer, was killed by Andy Bruce, a drug addict, to pay off about $3000 worth of drug debts.

Thank you bolth for all of this information.

Cheaper to employ skilled knowledge workers in India than here. Canada is testing the theory that you don't need good jobs or home-grown companies, all you need is natural resources to sell while the rest of us make each other burgers. Its the Middle East view of prosperity, I'm sure it'll work out well in the long run.

Even bigger `corporate welfare bum` General Motors. Ripped us off on huge tax breaks. About to bankrupt a whole lot of people.

With Buzz Hargreaves help!!!!

hey working man you should take your own advice since you are one working with concrete, like it doesn't get much less skilled then that

I find the straw man attacks very flattering. Must be some bone betting picked.

That aside, I would like you to comment the insult to the fine working people who poured the the Columbia River dams that supply you with cheap, clean energy. That must have been really easy low tech.

Seriously, if you knew what you were talking about, concrete is in fact quite a complicated technology that takes great care to do correctly. Not only that, it takes many, many skilled people to do it from many different organisations doing it at precise timing.

Not nearly as easy as you think it is and not anywhere as easy as waiting for your welfare cheque.

truman
You say big drug companies aren't interested in selling heroin. Guess who markets and sells the heroin substitute methadone... yup the drug companies, the same guys that want to sell not only heroin but all drugs. It will be a multi billion dollar market. The only ways these companies can increase their market share and share price is to find new markets for their products and legalizing drugs opens up a huge new market for them. Legal heroin I assure you would cost a lot more than four cents a dose, once drugs are legalized then distribution rights are given out and the various drug companies will dictate the price based on supply and demand.
You are naive and dead wrong if you think the drug companies wouldn't be interested in selling the drugs, if they wouldn't then who would, thats what drug companies do sell drugs.
I do see why you believe they should be legal, I am just saying that from what I've found societies that legalize drugs later regret they did. We aren't winning the drug war, legal or not drugs and addiction will always be here and I don't think the alternative, which is legalizing drugs is the answer.
I would say lets try it and if it doesn't work we can make them illegal again but once again history shows that when we legalized a drug (alcohol) and then decided to make it illegal again like they did in the roaring twenties it was a very negative and violent experience for society.
I appreciate your point of view and I think its cool that we can agree to disagree.

like you are building dams? That dam was built by union tradesman and yes they knew what they are doing but the stuff you say you do is hardly high tech, btw I am a pressure welder and I prefer to work shutdowns only, I can make more in 5 months up north then working for a year down here and the more gas plants and refineries they build the more I make!

You can't work on any of those sites without a either the alberta tqs or a red seal and I have the red seal. Been a journeyman for 30 years! A pressure welder has to test for every job sometimes for 3-4 days before going to work then when you get in the field your welds are x-rayed, I have had 100% x-ray doing repairs and tie-ins, that is a skilled trade not cement work, anyway I am off to hit another shutdown.

ahhhh, you can base a company in any province you want and not actually ever employ a single person there.... Many companies did this in the 1990s to avoid the Corporate Capital Tax

Have a look at incorporation laws if the words aren't too big for you. Also, look into the techniques of embossing artwork into high pressure cast concrete and tell me it is low tech.

Good luck and be safe. If it cools down much more I will be stuck the office for a while.

barryjo, let me clarify, I was suggesting some drugs, as in bud and perhaps some other organics ought to be more legally available. I was not endorsing the legalization of crack or other chemical and highly addictive drugs.

I don't think I would ever want to see crystal meth even considered for legalization. In fact drugs like those are dangerous poisons in my eyes.

Some will say grass too is addictive, but I think less than alcohol and it certainly doesn't have the debilitating loss of body coordination, motor skills and brain functions as booze.

Grass smokers are as likely as anyone to hold a job and be able to afford a tax on the product, especially if it is not such a target of police that it demands higher prices.

Barryjo, your concerns about youth were addressed in my earlier post. Just like alcohol, there ought to be age restrictions on smoking bud.

While I am not arguing a broad range of currently illegal drugs be opened up to the market place, as you implied, I believe the cost of supplying some of it through legal channels would only go down . . . to say nothing about the fact the quality (in terms of safety) would also rise dramatically.

By the way, have you ever got into a good bottle of overproof rum? It's been known to put people on slippery slopes as well.

Frankly, most of the despair I've witnessed or had a chance to understand a bit has arisen out of booze. There are centuries of evidence pointing toward it. Let's keep things in perspective here barryjo.

The F.O.C. (Fog of Commercialism) seems to scare a good deal of folks on this board!

Strange, whether it is WalMart, FutureShop, Canadian Tire, Home Depot, IKEA and others that have come to your community, are they not providing employment?

What if they were not here in BC, would we have the same employment?

It is true, that the Big Box stores do drive the price down, and indeed the so called little guy might suffer. But for the most part we find the little guy adapting to niche markets and doing very well indeed.

The nay sayers of Walmart and the other big boxes just do not get it. Employment is the game, and just because salaries might not be of the golden kind, at least people are working!

Lefties and revolutionaries on this board really need to pause a bit and see the big picture and the reality.

Is that too much to ask?

Well sdgreen,

Your making a big mistake assuming that its just people on the left that do not like this new big box era, but I'll get to that in a moment.

To address your first point, employment is not the game, the point that big box stores are good for the economy is a myth. Yes lots of low paying jobs are created and flood a marketplace, I guess if low paying jobs were good for an economy than places like India and Central America would be booming in riches. The fact is that a very few concentrated bunch benefit from such a low standard of employment, a handful of upper management and of course the shareholders who usually do not live in the community. Like the 3rd worlds economies , the profits are extracted from the workers for as cheap as possible and exported out of a community. Lets face it , the Wal Mart workers are not buying cars and homes and high ticket items, they are barley making it and probably work long hours doing back breaking work. The system is also based on huge exploitation, how can we justify such a miserable practice of slave labor oversees to continue this. As brain shares with us

"People should not be made to settle for these shitty low paying jobs. My husband came from a place where he made 4 dollars a day working in a flower plant it was a horrible place to work many people become very ill from the toxic fumes, breathing problems, infertile ect. Its very sad. And where were the flowers heading? Canada, to places like Wal*Mart."

So to recap, Wal Mart employees work hard to give shareholder value, money that's shipped out of a community, they also don' t contribute much taxes to local governments, so the net benefit is almost nothing for a Wal Mart employee, no benefit to them or the community via purchasing power. In fact if you do your research, we are begging and giving huge corporate Welfare to Wal Mart.

To address the issue of jobs, because that's what sdgreen states that at least they create jobs, well ask ourselves what did we do before Wal Mart and others hit the market, how did we all get by say 20- 25 yrs ago. Was the standard of living better or worse. My neighbor worked at Woolco , she made a decent living with her base salary and commission, she also had benefits and a small retirement fund, she was not loaded in cash but it was a okay existence. I also knew that Sears provided a career path and management training, their base pay was respectable etc. And further more if we do our research we know that 70% of all Canadian jobs and similar in the US are created by small to mid size companies, not big box stores.

When Wal Mart came in and took over the Woolco's all employees either agreed to lower wages or quit, the new standard came in hard.

So the Wal Mart effect being the monster and trend setter is to lower the standard and force others to do the same.
If Wal Mart offshores than others are forced to.
If Wal Mart gets away with little pay and no benefits it makes it harder for honest stores to compete.

In short Wal Mart as a net loss to an economy and small business is what drives our economy, anyone who shops at Wal Mart is propagating this trend and hurting the health of their community.

In June this year, stats Canada reported that 46,000 blue collar jobs left the country while 35,000 retail sector jobs were created, okay so that's 46,000 good paying jobs for 35000 jobs at the mall. The National post a conservative paper reported that this trend cannot continue . The off shoring of jobs is mandatory business for Wal Mart and others.

Beware this trend of globalization can go both ways, how about that working man, how about some temp visa's so we can ship over contractors from China and SE Asia for say $ 200 a month. By your standard that's just good business. Why pay locals we can import slaves like the old days.

barryjo, even if some large corporations wish to get involved in the production of drugs which are now illegal--so what? Wouldn't that be better than the currect state where huge piles of cash are available to gangsters and killers--unaccounted-for-money that is being used as start-up cash for almost the entire business of organized crime? Huge corporations pay taxes, and submit records of their business to the government--and even if they paraticipate in sleazy business practices are susceptible to audits and shareholder inquisitions. Drug profits fuel not only criminals but terrorists; they corrupt governments and de-stabilize whole societies like Columbia, Mexico and Bolivia, which by the way may just be the first country to legalize cocaine if the legalization candidate wins the current election in about two weeks from now. Perhaps the most enlightened comment I've heard on this issue was from an acquaintence who was working at the Surrey Remand Centre during the time of a hostage taking about fifteen years ago. He said that illegal drugs were not only the "stock in trade" of criminals, but also of everyone who was employed in the war on drugs. Your comments regarding prohibition of alcohol seem a bit strange. It was the prohibition of alcohol that virtually invented the American Mafia. I trust you've heard of the Capones and Segals, Lucianos eh. Anyway, Barryjo, thanks for considering my point of view. All the best.

This in not a left or right argument, this is good business vs bad business. Many conservative and successful small business owners will go under if the new store is built. Say goodbye to South Grandville St, Between my home and the Lougheed Mall their is not one, independent shoe store, bookseller, clothing or furniture store, Burquitlam is a dead community of empty stores. We can all talk of the niche market entrepreneur but they are the vast minority, why is it that everyone one else has to find a niche market because of unethical behavior of the Wal Marts of the world. The facts of clear , Wal Mart kills independents, please be my guest, go visit the Lougheed Mall website, find one small player in the Mall , their all gone.

So by the comments above I see the socialists who regularly post here are not true socialists. They are only " in my back yard socialists " That's typical. As soon as we start talking about spreading wealth throughout the planet, they fight with tooth and nail to put up barriers to protect their ass and maintain their status quo.
Anyone want a ride in my Chinese built $10,000.00 SUV ? How about you Buzz ?

blather blather blather...walmart sucks...boring boring boring...fight the man...blah blah blah...get a life.

Ron, you have hit the nail right on the head. The posters here are only interested in preserving their lifestyle and possessions. They could care less about anyone else in the world. Thus they scramble to maintain their diminishing lifestyles and decry others who have mangaged to adapt to inevitable change. They do this by exclusionary policies that have already produced shortages in skilled trades and professions. The public sector unions and "professional" are a sea of white faces, big bellies and grey hair that do not remotely reflect the demographic make-up of our country.

The fact is, in the last thiry years, hundreds of millions have been taken out of poverty (real poverty, not "only one VCR" poverty) in places such as China, Korea, Vietman, Indonesia and India have seen huge increases in standards of living. The left in BC has not travelled past Prince George and cannot recognise this. They also cannot accept the fact that many people (who do not fit their demographic profile) are willing to work hard to advance and educate their families.

Go see the demographics at UBC and SFU and you will immediately realise what I mean. If you drop out of high school (and very, very few New Canadians do) you cannot expect to make a good living anymore. Thus, they snivel and whine about getting handouts, while life passes them by.

it's just about impossible to drop out of high school these days anyway, since the lefties have made sure that no child's feelings will be hurt with a failing grade. another bloody joke perpetrated by the bctf and their lackeys in the ministry.

Working Man, you sound like canuck666 lite. You can't even put together a coherent argument. It's unlikely you even know the difference between your right and left hand, let alone any political spectrum. Just in case you thought no one noticed, we're on to you. The smart right doesn't come around here too often, as they don't really see a threat here yet. When they do, they're hard to spot, very chameleon like. Elliot, Ron and yourself are like the three stooges! A little too obvious, and whole lot uninformed. If anything, you idiots are consistant in your inconsistancy...

Ron and WM, I'm glad to hear you guys are so worried about the rest of the planet. I'm sure you'll be leaving for Tanzania with CUSO any day now?

I'm Canadian, I worry about Canada first. If you want to renounce your citizenship and declare yourself to be airy-fairy citizens of the world go ahead. But if you plan on living, working and voting in this country then I suggest you give yourself a wake-up call. Champagne capitalists make me sick.

WM, you suggest several hundred million have risen out of poverty. True, but have you watched how the world's population has increased by a billion and a half in the same time? And what the environmental cost has been?

Until the world economy can generate sustainable employment faster than the population increases you're pissing in the wind.

Why do I bother trying to invoke intelligent debate, Elliott don't get jealous that some of us are not high school drops outs like yourself and Ron Erwin, the Wal Mart issue is not a left or right issue, it's right vs
wrong issue. Thanks I will take credit for being compassionate, man you have baggage.

And working Man and Ron, nice try but you see your much to predictable , I knew you would try and peddle the neo conservative Fraser pimpstitute line that opening more sweat shops and exploiting others is good for
them, in fact they are holding up flags say please I would love to work for 3 dollars a day. Give me a break it would be laughable if it were not so sad to see other citizens indoctrinated so badly or here as Wal Mart
spin doctors. A very sad attempt to try and pin companies like Wal Mart as hero's and anyone who is against Wal Mart as enemies of the poor . A dirty neo con trick, anyone who pays attention knows that the last 10 yrs with globalization has created more poor people around the world. In fact it is kind of
racist to say oh these backward and brown people need our help to get by, no they need us to get our boot of their necks and let then run their own resources and economies . Nice try though, if your theory is true than why is all South and Central America going to progressive governments, well accept wonderful democratizes like Columbia with US death squads and the highest murder rate in the world. You people make me sick, at what length and harm to others will you push your agenda. Why so much war if all the worlds poor are getting better, I guess we are the good boy scouts of the world spreading democracy while accepting massive suffering in the process.

And regarding South Korea, once they started to form unions and get organized the US mult nations scoured the planet for the cheapest labor looking for governments to pimp out their population.

sdgreen, You seem to believe that the more retail outlets there are the more consumer dollars there are. As if consumer dollars somehow rise to match retail capacity. I would suggest you take a first year course in economics. You'll find that the amount of retail square footage that can exist depends on the amount of consumer dollars available.

"The summit of these eight richest countries in the world - Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States - will meet in July 2005 in Scotland. The G8 have consistently imposed a neo-liberal economic model that benefits the rich and powerful at the expense of the most destitute people in the world. This type of economics is characterized by privatization, deregulation and trade liberalization.

Take the case of trade liberalization. An increase in international trade for the world's poorest countries has not led to any real reduction in poverty in these countries. The United Nations Conference on Trade and Development reported that the majority of people in countries that opened up their markets for free trade are still surviving on less than US$1 a day. In other words, the people who gain most from relaxing import and export controls in the developing world are the multinationals.

The G8 continue to demand that poor countries open up their borders so that transnational corporations can swoop down and bleed public services dry. Like vultures, the corporations circle over the developing world, waiting to feed off the profits. "

'the Wal Mart issue is not a left or right issue, it's right vs
wrong issue.' according to the left, of course.

Don't anyone get sucked into the rights Fraser Pimpstitue argument that the anyone who is against Globalization is against the poor, not true, anyone who is against massive Multi Nationals is for the poor, anyone who confronts
global pimps like Wal Mart, Bechtel and others love the people of the world and should be proud. We are out to raise the standards and not lower them We know NAFTA is failing , we also know the European Union's constitution has been rejected in 2 countries and is at stand still. I have relatives in the UK and they would love to vote on the new constitution, globalization is about Multi nationals overstepping the democratic process and the people of the world know it.

We are connected and can't be fooled by mindless spin, we know and can give many examples if you like off
our companies conduct oversees. Helping the poor, how do you folks sleep at night, probably live scared in a
gated community, Ronnie talking about helping the poor , the same guy who advocated nuking the entire country
of Iraq,

The days of the US sending IMF teams into Latin America to stay at 5 star hotels while telling the locals they have to reduce their expectations and hand over their resources to foreigners died in Argentina.

Champagne capitalists wouldn't know about that however. They're still setting their hair on fire over peasants being given title over unused land in Venezuela. Or workers taking over unused factories in Argentina. I think we'd call that a handout but apparently its popular among the "third-worlders" who would never ask for such things according to the champagne drinking set.

They'd rather point to the non-democratic policies of Asia as their utopia.

Give Ron a break, he only advocated nuking Iraq because they were making him look bad at the time. Now he loves everyone, especially Iraqis, oh and except Canadians

Really Elliott ,

Was it all leftie business owners who protested the RAV line being jammed down their thoughts, will it be all leftie business owners who go under on South Grandville, was it all leftie business people who protested
the last Wal Mart application, I know a guy in Surrey who has a store selling vacuums , his business is down 25% since the new Wal Mart opened in New West, he does not know if he is going to make it. He was pissed that McCallam lost the last election, he is a fiscal conservative . He is an immigrant who started his store over 8 yrs ago and built it up, he is not college educated and if his store closers he will only be able to do labour or
retail low paying jobs. He cannot go back to school with 3 kids and a mortgage, him and his 3 employees will become the perfect Wal Mart customer. This is just one example of everyone getting hurt, once again its not left or right it's right vs wrong.

I am fighting to keep unethical corporations our of the community, I am fighting for higher standards of living , even for folks like Ron and Elliott. Time to take of the blinders folks.

Stuart, please don't fight for me. I have better trained people already doing that.

Or he would if he knew any people

The three stooges sums them up quite ably Clubofrome.

I see Working Man (Moe) is refining his mind's view of anyone who sees him for what he is.

Now we're old white, pot bellied, uneducated and angry welfare cases.

Stay away from those mirrors Moe and, if anything, get some counselling on anger management.

While some of us chuckle at your rage we do it wearing the partial embarassment that comes when someone makes a messy scene in public, but can't seem to find a way out.

Curly (Elliot) and Larry (Ron E) deserve better leadership and direction than you've offered so far.

Left or right, right or wrong, good or bad we all have our views.
There is merit to some of the left leaning policies and there is merit to right leaning policies. Unions have their good qualities and they have their bad side.
The answer to all this lies somewhere in the middle of the road and thank goodness we live in a country where we can have opposite points of viewwithour serious reprecussions.
Ignorance to condider opposing points of view is a waste of time and energy, after all no one among us has the capability to be right all the time.
In my opinion we live in paradise here in B.C. and life is what we make it. Today I think I'll have a little gratitude for the opportunities we have here.
Like it or not they will open another Walmart and they will do what they do, RAV will get completed away over budget, the Olympics will come and go and life goes on and on and on.

Be nice now, Curly (Elliot)was angry we don't have more high school drop outs. LOL

Hey Ron, I have already saved you billions by keeping Canada out of Iraq, just say thank you.

These blogs really bring out the trolls.

"Like it or not they will open another Walmart and they will do what they do, RAV will get completed away over budget, the Olympics will come and go and life goes on and on and on."

Wow, I would hate to feel so defeated . What is happening here is a debate that will affect the quality and look of the city, it's called passion. If you know better than you have a responsibility to try and make it so.

"and they will do what they do"

Who by the way is they, what we are tying to do is keep they accountable, Vancouver and BC are very nice, very nice because many people did not feel defeated and make it that way. Made it better for lazy defeatist like you barryjo. Many citizens struggles have protected the city you love, their would be a major hwy threw China Town if not for struggle, which by the way is the next battle again.

Stuart,
You state "made it better for a lazy defeatist like you barryjo".
You don't know who I am or what I do, it is comments like that that make anything you print have no merit at all.
I was up at five oclock this morning getting a bunch of employees who are all recovering addicts off to work because they are trying to change their lives for the better, and no they don 't work for minimum wage and yes there are benefits. I do volunteer work and do what I can to make a difference, so please, maybe you can tell me what you do to make your community a better place, besides spewing forth your point of view.
Gratitude is an action word, it means nothing unless you accompany it with action. If you want to get out of your negative headspace, put on a coat and maybe go out and clear the snow off your neighbours walkway and then do your own.
Lazy and defeatist is about the same as constantly ranting and raving and doing nothing concrete to facilitate change and I don't have roo for either in my life.
Unless you've made other plans "have a nice day'. Sounds though like you've already made up your mind to be jaded and confrontational, too bad, soo sad.

'Be nice now, Curly (Elliot)was angry we don't have more high school drop outs.'
just a small sample of stuey-boy's powers of perception. no wonder he believes all the spewage.

barryjo, don't be so hard on Stuart. You don't know him. You don't know that HE kept us out of Iraq, what a hero.

Wow barryjo , a little spirit , I like it. Sorry if I misjudged you but all I have to go on is your words.

"Like it or not they will open another Walmart and they will do what they do, RAV will get completed away over budget, the Olympics will come and go and life goes on and on and on."

This to me says oh come on folks just be content, things are okay, just be grateful no matter what. Why fight for a cause because you will just lose no matter what. Sorry but sounds defeatist to me.

The majority or public will shape policy , we just need the will and motivation. Many things have been accomplished when the public is organized, its good that barryjo is trying to effect change but don't demoralize others who are also trying to do the same. Or dismiss the struggle as hopeless.

And Ronnie boy, your very welcome. 83 % of Canadians when polled did not want anything to do with Iraq or missile defense, do you not think that Paul Martin payed attention to the anti war movement in Canada. If not just wait to the this election, watch Martin talk about Iraq and Harper for votes. Just watch the show.

And Elliott , don't worry we can be harder on kids we can get the drop out #'s up for you. More drop outs to work at Wal Mart , okay now Elliott , focus, conversations usually have a point of view. Keep trying, even Ron sometimes makes a point . I said sometimes.

I have to say I love the debate. It is wonderfully entertaining.

I wish somthing good come out of it besides calling people down. Like everyone could just see that Wal Mart is evil. And everyone that shops there will "Burn in Hell".

Stuart, 83% of Canadians filled in the census declaring themselves "religious". People can say anything they want in a poll, they are anonymous.
Besides, why would you think I would care what Canadians think anyway ?
Canadians only care about hockey and beer. They don't give a shite about anything else.

Unlike Ron who thinks of the poor workers of the 3rd world all day long when he's not fantasizing about nuking them.

Stuart,
The RAV line is s done deal and so are the Olympics, Walmart isn't as of yet in Vancouver but I'm betting big business will get its way like it usually does. Of course, it is ones right to have an opinion and do what they can to stop such ventures but I believe this ones a done deal.
I personally don't shop at Walmart but it seems like most other people do judging by the full parking lots and tons of people that go there.
Supply and demand, the majority demands it and Walmart will supply it.
I noticed today as I drove by the new Walmart in New West that they are doing a major road reconstruction program with overpasses and the like to accomodate access to it so it is probably creating some good construction jobs, union or not I'm don't know, my point is there is some positive spin off from it.

I love it, I know once I scratch the surface a little the Real Ronnie would show his true colors. Hey Ron your sounding like the ugly American again. Crazy violent fundamentalist that attends church every Sunday
right after Fox news. LOL

Well barryjo, I respect your point of view but disagree on all counts. Wal Mart has no positive spin offs , it dives down the standards in the workplace and sets negative trends in off shoring jobs, human rights violations etc, not to mention the corporate Welfare programs, Wal Mart is a net loss to any community . It is a market ideology that cannot sustain itself long term. You make the mistake of only valuing the price of Wal Mart goods and not the cost to society in general .

The best article I have found so far, its a good read for anyone to get the big picture.

http://208.39.44.204/magazine/77/walmart.html

Remember, enough public outrage has and can stop big business and all the embedded interest.

As as far as the RAV and the Olympics , it would be a big mistake to not put pressure on these folks, and to just say its a done deal, remember we have 6 new mayors now that will change the look of Translink, this project can be modified yet.

"Supply and demand, the majority demands it and Walmart will supply it."

I disagree , supply and demand are moving targets, public perception changes overnight, huge companies are always vulnerable to public discourse, hence the fact Mc Donald's lost money this year and so did Monsanto, companies are vulnerable to a bad public image, Wal Mart is in fact fighting for its life, go online , they are hiring public relations reps and putting up websites, Wal Marts are being shot down coast to coast.

Look at what's happening to Rotten Ronnie's and its pathetic customers.
"
"Profits have fallen in seven of the past eight quarters and, last year, its chief executive, Jack Greenberg, left abruptly after its shares slid to a seven-year low. In Japan, the company failed to make money for the first time since 1973.

McDonald’s is now pulling out of three countries, closing several outlets in London and shutting down unprofitable restaurants in the US. Subway, which offers custom-made sandwiches on freshly-baked bread, has supplanted McDonald’s as the largest chain in the US. "

People are waking up everywhere to big box man. Check out the link, very funny. I love Jib jab. Cheers

http://jibjab.com/Home.aspx

Stuart,
It's bigger than Walmart, its a whole system (capitalism) that relies way to much on the stock market and public companies like Walmart and Macdonalds.
The public companies can only sustain their market share and revenue if they expand and create new markets. If they become stagnant many more will be started to take their place.
If money is the root of evil as they say, the publicly traded companies are the devil itself.

I believe part of global "greening" is the elimination of sweatshops, and standarization of wages. The theory behind this is that those who live on subsistance incomes (or less), don't give two hoots about environment......

What are WalMart's moves to eliminate sweatshop conditions among it's myriad suppliers?

Your right barryjo,

It's the entire system , but Wal Mart is the biggest player and trend setter, If we can take a bite out of Wal Mart it has positive ripple effects threw the entire economy. Some with McDonalds, go after the big guy and send chills threw all the others, in short if Wal Mart changes its ways Home Depot is not far behind.

No shops cheaper than me, I don't waste money and I live well and I don't shop at Wal Mart. We must educate people on making better choices, you purchasing power goes a long way.

When I shop , I buy stuff made locally first, if not locally regionally from BC , in Not from BC from Canada and if not from Canada than internationally. Your shopping experience is much more fun when you don't
have to line up and you talk directly to the store owner and they know your name.

The best comment I heard about WALMART is that whenever they open new store, the whole town receives raise in income. I can not understand why "official left" is against WALMART and all of the sudden Rockefeller's>StandardOil>Safeway or Jimmmy Pattisson's>Save-On-Food as well as corner grocery stores are Hollier than Holly. They were mischieving public long enough already.
Is it that new kin on the block, serving customers better is subject of envy? Is it because WALMART is not paying union wages which are bankrupting General Motors? I buy at Costco, WallMart and Save-on-Foods, whenever I can find good prices. Seldom go to Safeway anymore. Some businesses come, some go. General Motors and another automobile manufacturer going down the tube in US do not exist to pay $60 an hour to the 200,000 overpriced extortionists, but to sell cars and serve millions of customers, and that's tha way it is.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
latarnik! Where do you people come from! Do you even understand the meaning of what you hear, and then try and express here? Do you have any concept of what the drive to the bottom is! "Competition, low prices that's the way of the world now." Let me pick up were you left off.... "There is no guarantee or job security anymore, that's just the way it is." Agree with that one too don't you. "We must get on the global economy train or get left behind." That's easy, it's in all the papers and media. Who told you to close your mind and swallow a pill then repeat "that's the way it is?" Could you please consider for one moment that the drive for lower prices is just the latest drug to feed the consummer addict. Hmmm?

latarnik, I am not going to try and educate another person on this. If that's the way you feel than fine, go fill your face with cheap crap but your hurting your community and contributing to the problem.

Please read my above post, open up the link and educate yourself, you are only seeing the price and not the true cost. Yes their are other big box stores but Wal Mart is by far the biggest and the trend setter, by the way
your paying to much for your stuff anyway, Wal Mart is not cheaper and either is COSTCO (you even have to pay for the privilege of going to COSTO, what a joke) , your being hood winked Go ahead and make a list and I can provide cheaper alternatives,

laternik, if you would just THINK. GM is closing down plants that are highly productive. It doesn't matter if they pay their workers $60 or $600 an hour if their productivity backs it up. And that's the issue, we're told we can keep our standard of living only if our productivity allows it, yet high productivity people with GM are losing their jobs too.

And for the last time, will you people like yourself and sdgreen please learn enough about economics to discover that the spending power of a community doesn't expand and contract based on the amount of square footage devoted to retail. The relationship works the other way around.

Very interesting site if your willing to inform yourself. But aside the spin and check out the site. He has actual stats and damage done when Wal Mart sets up shop.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html

If Canada keeps following this trend we will become a country of retail workers and administrators, a sea of low paying jobs. We will have a massive under class even bigger than what exist now. Hey do one thing for me,
ask yourself how many adults do you know who do not own their own homes but work very hard everyday. Also ask yourself who benefits when workers are laid off due to off shoring their jobs, did your TELUS bill go down, is the service now better, who benefited. As a society we must start to see a bigger picture and not only focus on our
individual needs. We are all connected. The rich band together , why do you think certain areas always vote
a certain way, self interest my friend, watch the money and follow the decisions. Simple as that, Wal Mart
public relations helped the NPA get elected.

I was gonna add a few cents worth but so many have contributed so much more than me....thanks

Just think Stuart. If you had several billion dollars and wanted to make cars, would you keep doing it in Oshava or Detroit, when you could make them in Communist China, paying workers 25 cents a day? Shouldn't we help those third world countries to get ahead and prevent them from starving to death. Canadian Liberanos are sending to the Communist China millions of dollars (stolen from us) as a humanitarian aid. Isn't it better to teach them how to fish (or make cars for us and themselves)?
Maybe their government will became less repressive? Liberate Tibet? Maybe they will stop public executions or even sign Kyoto agreement to quit polluting by cooking 3 billion meals a day on coal fired open barbecues? And that is not just hypothetical global warming, which many serious people consider to be a hoax, but sulphur and radioactive Radon, which is startng to hit North America. On the Northern hemisphere prevailing winds are westernly and we all start living in an open space gas chamber. Death is slow, but inevitable. Lower libido, lung cancer, loosing hair and difficulties with concentration are the first symptoms.
Think Stuart, do you know somebody who does not have at least some of those symptoms?

latarnik, China has enough money to fund the US deficit. They've been "fishing" since before Canada, or even England, was a country. They don't need our money.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/11/30/walmartbangladesh051130.html
Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, is promoting a corporate code of conduct that it calls one of the strictest in the industry.
But an investigation by Radio-Canada, the French-language service of the CBC, casts doubt on the company's capacity to enforce that code in dealing with Third World countries.

latarnik, your heart is in the right place but this form of global exploitation is not the answer, If China lived by our material standards the planet would die over night, China is a civilization that survived 1000's of years before we landed, to say their only way out of poverty is by us setting up
sweat shops is obscene, kind of racism that says without the west these brown and yellows and blacks of the world cannot make it, when in fact these countries are rich and would be better off without our interference in their economies, we are stealing resources at bargain basement prices, either natural or
human resources, what we have done over the last 100 yrs around the planet is not something we should be proud of, so we have a choice to keep opening up new markets and resources to feed out fat north American culture or we start to do things a little differently, the 3rd world is rich, its just its people that are poor.

By the way the people of China like us have almost no choice, Globalization is network of global elites connected with local government elites. They do know have your best interest at heart. The best think for our economies is to consume and produce our own food and products locally , and not have to use fossil fuel to ship goods 1000's of miles to the end consumers. Their were hundreds of auto makers at the turn of the century many run independently, now I think we have 5 or 6 mega corporations.
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html

Please read the link, its a good read.
Simply buy local goods first, regional or BC goods when local options don't exist and National goods next and then if no options exist international.

What about Censorship*Mart, the Tyee?

ok, I lived in Ecuador for three years in a very third world town.

It all starts with Wal*Mart/Big Box bullying and forcing the government to set low wage standards for employees then thier are big bonuses for government people and employers. The third richest man in the world lives in Ecuador hes a banana guy.

Why does most big box stores go to China to buy thier goods instead of South America. China only pays a dollar a day South America pays 4-10.

I think if we do not support Wal*Mart we will not support bullying, greed and government kickbacks.

...and do some of you buy Nike or several other big name high priced sports gear that is also made by the same asian sweat shops or is that okay.
Lot's of mixed up people here. Perhaps the bleeding hearts should go to Asia and protest...

This from http://americansforwalmart.org...

"The debate over Wal-Mart is fundamentally about freedom. It is about the freedom of Americans to shop where they want to shop – and the freedom of Americans in retail to serve their customers as they wish to be served.

"When the freedom of Wal-Mart and its customers is limited, all Americans lose a little freedom. And once we start down such a path, we can only wonder who is next – and where it ends."

Does this then make Wal-Mart critics (GASP!) terrorists!?