Typical political doubletalk. They cut funding to schools, so they have to rely on commercial contracts and donations, permitting the loading up of kids up with junk and GMO foods, cut athletic programs, both parents have to work on cut wages to make ends meet, and then the politicians and everybody else is surprised when kids become incompetent, fat pigs.

When I went to school in the dirty thirties and forties, there was no junk, or any food sold in our schools and we had rigorous, compulsory athletic programs. We also had mothers at home, who made our sandwiches. There was the odd kid who was a bit stouter than the rest, but they were the exceptions. Look at the teenagers coming out of the schools now. Some can hardly carry their fat asses.

Look at the disgusting junkfood commercials on TV, like the Subway, with layers of meats etc dripping with grease. Look at the meats in the supermarkets, from animals forcefed with corn and a long line of chemicals to fill it with "marble", more fats.

But "we can't interfere with the God given profit demands of free enterprise".

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

B.C. Ferries once devolved into that indigestible cuisine known as "Ferry Food" but even they started to change.

I have no way of knowing whether I had a bit to do with that, but after a visit to London, England, where street vendors serve baked potatoes with 3 kinds of toppings (butter, cheese, or baked beans), I dropped that idea into an on-board suggestion box. Not long afterward, baked potatoes appeared on the B.C. Ferries menu. Quick, easy, tasty, cheap and healthy food.

You'd think the schools would be rife with good ideas for healthy food. Where's the bottleneck? Jeez, do we have to do everythingourselves? If so, I think I'd like a healthier government.

We have a socialized health care system. put another way we are going to pay big time for the bad diets of the kids. Heart disease is the # 1 killer in Canada and we pay huge amounts on money treating people every year. The money made selling junk food is peanuts compared to health care costs down
the road, is false economics, they take profits while we pay all the negatives.

It's not just about removing the food it's about educating the public on what is healthy and maybe visiting a few hospitals, its also about getting active and giving real alternatives. Why are our heart disease rates
so much higher than SE Asia for example, we have huge meat based fatty diets. This is the first generation that will not live longer than its parents. We have a real problem when kids are getting type B diabetes by the age
of 10. We are so afraid to mess with the free market, even when it makes us sick.

Politicians continueously make promises and then don't follow through. Christie Cookie was going to do something about this, and so was Gordo (something about the healthiest, fittest kids in Canada). The biggest problem today is our so called representatives who lie to us with no repercussions. I'm sick of the lot of them.

The Public Schools are supposed to be educating our children, not feeding them. That's the job of parents. I know of School Districts that have thrown out vending machines with the reasoning of health.
I doubt it has anything to do with health. It has everything to do with a nanny state attempting to brainwash our children against some evil corporate agenda. How stupid. I doubt there are any positive results from this idiotic waste of time.

LOL

"It has everything to do with a nanny state attempting to brainwash our children against some evil corporate agenda."

Your so smart Ronnie, its all a big conspiracy to brainwash you and your kids, please don't pay any attention to the facts, its not about corporate profits at all. Just keep consuming as much pop and junk food as possible
please , don't listen to anyone , just keep that bag of chips in your hand. And when your done eating go for a swim with Mr. Floatie.

Ron, would you advocate a school selling cigarettes to students?

There is no conspiracy here. Obesity is becoming the number one health threat to youth. Schools that peddle junk food are acting irresponsibly.

"The Public Schools are supposed to be educating our children, not feeding them."

So why advocate for junk food, Ron? Your contradicting yourself.

Ron,

I agree that the public schools are supposed to be educating our children, but if you took the time to read the article, you would see that school programs are addicted to the revenue that junk food brings in. My school is no exception. Food sales fund athletics.

If you actually valued the education objective (and I doubt that you do), you would endorse a level of funding for schools that makes it possible for them to get out of the business of feeding kids.

For that to happen, we would need to return to the funding levels we had twenty years ago when there was money for athletic programs, field trips etc.

And that would take back all the "gains" of the neo-con education agenda for the past two decades.

Are you really in favour of education? Or is that just a convenient thing to say every once in a while because being truthful would reveal the shallowness of your cheap, selfish, short-sighted philosophy?

By the way, how did things go down at the accountant's office? Are you still paying 65% in taxes?

Much of my income is untaxed, as I have already stated in previous posts, and as such, my family pays roughly 26% on a healthy six figure income.

I would gladly pay 30% instead if it meant schools had adequate funding.

Geez, do I sound like a namby-pamby socialist or what? :-)

Now get your selfish/stupid ass down to the accountant's office and get things fixed.

If having vending machines in schools hel raise funds, I am all for it.
And Davey Boy, you are fooling yourself about how much tax you pay. My figure of 65% is correct for all of us when you take into account all the taxes you pay besides simple income tax.

RE is correct that feeding children is a parental responsibility. So is disciplining, educating, clothing, and protecting them.

But there are two reasons to give the kids good food at school.

1. Some parents fail to provide. If the state can afford to help the kid, why not?

2. The school is in loco parentis during the day.

What if a kid shows up in the middle of winter in a summer jacket freezing to death. Is it the schools responsibility to cloth them ?
What is a kid shows up at school smelling to high heaven. Is it the schools job to clean him ?
So many people are statist. Instead of encouraging a good family life, we feel that everything is up to the state to take care of.
My old fashion ideas taught me self responsibility. This is what should be encouraged.

No one here has ever advocated for the state raising our children Ron. It's really too bad that you continue to insist on simplifying the issues like this - I believe that it really speaks volumes about your personality. What a shame.

I really don't think that anyone here would disagree that people should be responsible for their own lives. But lets face, some people are dealt a s!!tty hand - you have to admit that, no? Poverty, drug abuse, and other societal ills are cyclical ron. If i'm born into a poor alcoholic family, chances are I'm not going to be sipping highballs at the country club. It's quite simple, do you not get it?

What you seem to be advocating is that the children who are unfortunately born into dire situations should be punished further. "Self responsibility"? How do you tell that to a hungry grade 3er ron? You can encourage a good family life all you'd like but it won't make a lick of difference without state sponsored programs. Even then, it's not guaranteed that the cycles will be broken.

Yes ron, people like you make the world a worse place. You're morally bankrupt for placing even the smallest amount of blame on a child for being in a situation that they cannot control and then hiding behind this rhetoric of personal responsibility.

And one last thing. Your "values", it one can actually label them as such, are not old fashion ron. My parents were old fashion and they understood loud and clear that if a child continually shows up at school hungry, tired, and cold that something needs to be done. "Encourage a good family life"? No ron, you are not old fashion, you're in a league of your own.

ubquitous

You got me wrong, I am compassionate, this is my idea of being altruistic. Your idea of enabling failure will not help anyone. I guess they call it tough love, but don't you see that when things are free they aren't respected ?
Open up a kitchen and advertise free food and you would have thousands of people show up, eat and take the money they saved and buy drugs.
I see faith based charity as the most effective. The state cannot do anything except give away taxpayers dollars into a sink hole.
I would rather give The Salvation Army $100.00 than give the govt. 5 cents in taxes.
Our modern society sucks, and all this statism is what is killing us.

Not only is most school cafeteria food bad for you, it also tastes like crap. The contracted food companies serve poor quality, low nutrition food.
The only high schools in Vancouver that have healthier, decent quality food are the schools that still have the teaching cafeteria where students learn professional food preparation & baking skills.
Some still serve fries but there are many other healthier choices available.
as a teacher, I would love to see the end of vending machines, school stores & cafeterias selling garbage to our students.

Ron Erwin: 65% tax rate. Riiiiight. I just did the numbers, and according to you I starved to death in April.

ON the subject, our schools are there to teach our children to become productive citizens. Teaching them to load up on junk food is not productive. Schools that do it to raise money need to seriously rethink their prioirities.

I'm not against the occasional barbecue to raise money for some field trip, but no way should this garbage be allowed in our schools 24/7. Scrap the vending machines, and restrict our cafeterias to decent foods. Only allow "club functions" to sell junk food to raise money - and once a week is plenty.

Be nice to Ron, his blood sugar is way to high.

I believe it was UBC that had to cough up a few thousand bucks to Coke because the students didn't buy enough soda over the period of the contract. That's a school that paid Coke to advertize in the school. I'm not saying that our school trustees are equally as clever as the folks at UBC but when product venders start placing preformance clauses in the contract they become a little more evil than Ron would have us believe.

Ron just wants to be the Devil's Advocate. Unfortunately for him, even Satan demands a higher level of intellectual rigour. So, we get stuck with him.

Ron,

You know, it is good you are here. I appreciate your point of view because monocultures are tedious.

RE asks:

"What if a kid shows up in the middle of winter in a summer jacket freezing to death. Is it the schools responsibility to cloth them ?
What is a kid shows up at school smelling to high heaven. Is it the schools job to clean him ?"

It is not the school's job per se but it is certainly the school's responsibility to notify the authorities about a possible child abuse/neglect situation.

As a parent, it behooves me to have my kids go to school with kids who are fed, ready to learn, and healthy. So I want intervention. I don't see where it is my job to do it directly. I might go and punch the negligent parent's lights out, or vice versa. Better to let trained social workers intervene.

Is this "statist"? Of course. We live in a state. We delegate jobs that are unsuitable for profit, and which must be done, to the state.

"Instead of encouraging a good family life, we feel that everything is up to the state to take care of."

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I encourage a good family life. Lots of people don't. If it was up to me, there would be an IQ test for citizenship and a skills test before conception was permitted, but it isn't up to me, and therefore we share room in Canada with lots of people who stink as parents, or citizens generally.

There is nothing I can do about that by myself, so I consent to delegate to the state certain health- and peace-keeping functions.

Of course we must be wary of state power. We must all be vigilant and vocal, so that the state does only what is necessary and fair.

"My old fashion ideas taught me self responsibility. This is what should be encouraged."

Of course. I can't think of anyone, statist or not, who thinks that irresponsibility is a good thing!

I am glad to see that you like the idea of faith based charity, Ron.

But do you put your money where your mouth is? I like the Salvation Army too. I give them money every year.

And I give to the SFU Alumni bursary fund, the YMCA, local scholarships at my high school, and a number of other things too numerous to mention.

Ronald Reagan said the same thing you just did, but as it turns out, he did not actually contribute to charity himself. He was a good talker on a number of issues dear to conservatives - family values, individual responsibility, etc- but he did not practice what he preached.

My father was a card carrying conservative, and like you, he worried about the long term effects of too much state intervention, and the implications for individual responsibilty.

But he walked the walk, giving regularly of his time and his money to charities, community programs, our church, and even beggars on the street.

I believe that many such conservatives still exist today, and while I don't share their notion of reducing the role of government, I respect their position as one based on belief, not self-interest.

But I suspect that most members of the neo-con crowd are more like old Ronny Reagan, using conservative rhetoric to defend what is actually a selfish, nihilistic position.

Which kind are you?

Little Ronnie Erwin pukes out yet another pile of bilge. Let the little buggers starve and flunk out. Just don't ask Ronnie to pay for a lunch, or breakfast program, because that would be statist and he already pays 65% taxes.

The cost of dealing with adult poverty is much higher Ronnie, as is the cost of incarceration. And that is where you will find those who don't get the support needed. But true to his fox news loving view of the world, it is more important to Ronnie that innocent children suffer than perhaps raise the horror of the state attempting to rescue a few little kids. What a dork.

Ron sounds like he is making excuses for the multiple child deaths that have occured under the watch of the BC Liberals.

My principal tells me that if our school didn't have vending machines, I wouldn't have my program. The students couldn't take the elective and I wouldn't have a job. Simple as that.

It is exactly this dead-end thinking that perpetuates the hypocracy--everyone disagrees with junk food in machines and thinks they should go, but no one can do without the money they bring in. So nothing changes.

It is so sad that it has come to this!
People have accepted there is no other way. The government's incredible lack of stewardship of public education (underfunding) is so ingrained as the status quo, that people don't even believe that we could do without vending machine revenue. It's pathetic. But we can find the billions for a week or so of sports in 2010.

That photo makes me feel sick.

It is worse than Ronnie being an apologist for the cut-backs that contributed to the deaths of children Jeeves, this is what Ronnie has to say about the deaths of innocent children. You can find it in the Mr. Floatie story.

"Sherry Charlie, A group of Indians sends an Indian child to be cared for by another Indian. The other Indian murders the Indian child. And this is our fault ? Give me a break." quote from Ron Erwin

And in the Canada's Retreat story Ron Erwin writes about Muslims:

"but these people are animals who are not going to follow the normal ways of waging war. They want us dead." quote from Ron Erwin

This is hate propaganda.

I would call it neo conservative mentality that shines through the publishings of the Fraser Inst and the actions of the Campbell, former Harris, Klein, Bush etc. govts and waiting to burst into the open if Harper gets his hands on power .

Ed Deak.

Our local high school got rid of the vending machines filled with food and promptly set up a "snack cart" filled with the same stuff, a slushy machine (sugar & water to go, to raise funds for 1200 programs) and a popcorn machine. ??? The popcorn machine is the most offensive, the smell permeates the school.

Wouldn't it be great if they were selling mandarin oranges - what a great smell that would be!

ps. why is this the ron erwin column? what are the neocons paying him to highjack this forum? he seems to be earning it, whatever it is. too bad.

CIRE Collation to Ignore Ron Erwin - Membership is free and the benefits are immediate, the guy is a clown and he
is only here to antagonize anyone at any expense, although it is very temping to point out what a dork he is just ignore him as his only goal is to direct the conversation in non productive directions. The fact that folks like him exist show just how important these forums are, lets have action based forums and not explain ourselves to clown's
like Ron

"If I had my way I would have nuked the entire country"

Ron's quote of the Iraq war, the guy is a nut job just here to play games, don't play with him.

Perhaps Yammer is right. Maybe it's good that Ron is here, breaking up the monoculture. While he plays silly bugger on both sides of the fence, usually to the point of annoyance, there are ocaisions when you think he may indeed have real feelings. Like when he says this society sucks! Hey we're all in the same boat now! But he just doesn't grasp the reason we are in the same boat. Loss of human rights and the assault on personal responsibility and blind consummerism etc.... Therefore as the President of C.I.R.E. I offer an olive branch to Ron. Quit playing silly bugger on the verge of bigotry, and I will revoke the charter of the C.I.R.E. Inc. Do we have a deal?
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer! Except in the case of Canuck666. No loonies allowed.

lub, from now on I will refer to Indians as either aboriginals or almost first nations people. I will not lump all Muslims into the same boat, I will only refer to Islamist Extremists. Do we have a deal ?
I am not a racist or bigot, if everyone actually knew how much I believe in equality, I would be forgiven, I am sure.

You're on double secret probation, pending a full Tyee review, TBA at a later date. We trust you will now be on your best behavior. Conditions: No name calling, please post evidence for your statements or say IMO (in my opinion) There is no left or right, only right and wrong. When you look at things this way, then we can discuss solutions in a rational manner. Thank you for your efforts to affect change in advance! Blog on! We are all in the same boat, life boat earth. We're also taking on water....everybody takes a turn at bailing...

Former Nigerian, Canadian Olympic Gold Medalist, Daniel Igali was on the news this week regarding his school project in his native homeland. Giving back as he says is his duty, and to use his good fortunes to help others. His school still needs supplies and there will be ongoing operating costs. But as I looked upon the building site set in what seemed a lush environment, I envisioned a garden that the students would tend. That agriculture must certainly be part of their ciriculum as they strive to return to self sufficiency. Then I thought why the hell aren't we doing that in Canada? Why would we not teach ourselves about food? From seed to stem so to speak. If, that's if, localization is a necessary alternative in the future, the kids will have a head start. What better way to build a strong and healthy generation. Give them the knowledge, then watch them work the soil, pull the weeds and finally cook and serve up their labors. How's that for fresh lunch? I'm sure someone out there remembers this being done somewhere in the past or presently in other cultures. Except for the fact we'd be digging up half of a soccer field what are the pro's and cons here? Ron?

Club' In my area we call this the 4H club. The Saanich Fall Fair is a celebration of what you are talking about.
I am not sure how the modern young person would warm up to 4H. They would probably think it's too square.

Of course, 4H! The modern young person would likely gag at the mention of gardening, as probably some of the parents would. That means we'd be onto something for sure. I'm sure there will be other examples from our fine fellow readers here. That will give us more examples of existing models for the school boards to adopt. So it is written, so it shall be done! Ron you are hereby appointed as deputy minister of education, agriculure division and are charged with introducing the program based on the 4H model.
(I'm still the minister for deligating stuff...)

Did I just hear that the liberals want a pay raise to put their salaries at par with federal MP.s?

I guess all that money they saved not looking after poor abused children has to be spent somewhere else.

And the people who never had a problem with B.C. Rail now have to pay as much as $20,000 to get access to their own property if they cross any of the Judas tracks Gordo said he would never sell.

Starting to look like time for a revolution here.

P.S.

I am really enjoying my membership in C.I.R.E.

The 4h is alive and well in the more civilized parts of BC. Let's hope the African children will follow this lead, instead of the mindless barbarism of city existence.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

all due respect Ed but "mindless barbarism of city existence"?

While we wait for Ron to put together his proposal.... does anyone else have thoughts on this? Hello...hello... Man it's quiet around here.

Um...... What's that about BC Rail? On second thought don't tell me. I'm just starting to calm down from the "mindless barbarian bastard" who cut me off this morning...

With the neocon plans for the depopulation of the countryside all cities are becoming dumping grounds for incredible pollution and energy waste, human misery and hopelessness. Just look at the commuter traffic, even around Vancouver, to "where the jobs are".

I can't forward any pictures here, but if you have a chance, try to find photos of the inhuman skyscraper dumps of humanity where the Chinese are planning to stack 400 million of rural people in. They boggle the mind.

The same plans are also existing for Africa, to free the land for corporate monocrop farming. NAFTA and other "free trade" crime waves have already dislocated tens of millions and dumped them into city slums, like Mexico City etc.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Ed

The Chinese have no option but to build housing for migrants from the countryside. Why wouldn't the rural people want to do where the jobs are? I assume they are addicted to eating and being clothed. There have been reports of poor people eating boiled tree bark just to have something to eat in China.

And if any nation has thoroughly explored alternative economic models of collectivization, work distribution, and migration control, it is the PRC

I see where you're going there Ed - I think that I misunderstood where you were going with that. I'm a city dweller as are all my friends and I consider us to be very progressive. So when I see someone describe city dwellers as mindless, it ruffles my feathers so to speak.

I think though that your brief mention of cummuter traffic around Vancouver, that there's a distinction to be made between urban and suburban. Surely there persists the problem of mindless suburban "development" - one the continues to encroach on the rural landscape. Not only is this migration leaving the ever decreasing farm lands to corporate monoculture - as you suggested - it give creadance to the automobile culture. It continues to amaze me how we still worship the notion of freedom and how it relates to poorly designed subdivisions, and poorly designed suburban homes with there two car garages as the most prominent feature. But now i really digress.

Possibly the one positive thing Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Terminator, will be remembered for: striving to protect schoolchildren from Junk food and raising awareness for all.

Pepsi, Coke, Burger King, Tim Horton, et al, want to "help" in schools? Then establish bursaries, grants, low interest loans, so they will have future employees to run their companies. It's the long haul, something that shareholders (and CEO's) evidently don't want to hear.

As a senior student myself all i see my cafetria giving out, perogies, very greasy pizza, bacon bits on salad bagles and stuff like, that is over priced and is not heathy for children to eat. ( Chat ((highschool) Seachelt (davey-boy there knows it) its just a little window in the wall and as i have seen in schools in other provinces like quebec for example in a school in the middle of no wear that i attended for 5 weeks all there was to eat was healty stuff and deep fried french fries only once a week as they were trying to get kids to eat heathy. Id rather them have some healthy choices in schools of BC but currenty stuck with greasy over priced (roughly 2$ per little lunch)

Sorry if my english is off I am not hooked on msn language and im still learning.

Hey, never mind schools. How about your average public "recreation centre"? To enter our town's pool and ice skating arenas you have to pass by a phalanx of vending machines offering stuff that doesn't even pretend to be food. These vending machines hold nothing but candies: jaw breakers, jelly beans and myriad other forms of chemical dyes, sugars, and other unspellable "ingredients," none of which are listed on the vending machines or products. Doesn't matter anyway because these vending machines are knee-high, aimed at toddlers and pre-school aged children who can't read yet.

So, the first message our children get when they enter these temples of physical fitness is that they should lust after sugar, chemicals and artificial colour??? But, sadly, no one seems to notice the irony of these vending machines being the first things you see inside the door of our "public" fitness facilities, not even their parents. Guess they're too busy worrying about how they're going to afford the latest SUV or thin-screen TV. Sigh.

Those cafeterias and wending machines serving killing foods and the people forcibly jammed into cities, "where the jobs" are, serve one single purpose: the control of the economy by a bloated self interest sector to fill their insatiable greed for profits.

There's absolutely no reason why cafeterias couldn't sell healthy foods, why the flesh of animals should be filled with fats, or why the jobs should be in the megacities.

All these actions are transferring daily increasing, huge costs on the public, the environment and future generations in the forms of climate changes, illnesses etc. by covering up the real costs with phoney monetary figures.

This crime wave is taught in our universities as "economics" and sold by bought politicians to the public under the guise of Maggie Thatcher's TINA. This is the origin of the problems.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

fiat lux:

It's also why all revolutions stem from the cities. The people can be much more easily controlled. That's why Stalin killed some 20 million rural peasants.....

However, this is getting a touch off topic. In the cities, "where the jobs are", one would think that the money for education would also be there in bucketsful. Is this some sort of "revelation" that the cities cannot carry their own weight? Are in fact, not the great "powerhouses" that generate prosperity for the nation? If not, then why not? Coul dit be that cities are in fact, a drain[U] on a nation's well-being, and are nothing more (as Ed says) points of control....?

This is an important subject, so why let ron erwin highjack the comments? As I have noted before, I skip his postings always, knowing they never make sense. I grew up when there were no fast foods and we took our lunches from home. On ocassion I have been in the golden arches, when nothing else was available, but ordered the only healthy thing on the menu - fish burger, and a glass of milk.
I haven't had a soft drink for 40 years.

For goodness sake read Ed Deak and skip e r.

Ken McKee Salmon Arm

C.I.R.E.
Comes in many forms, including the do it yourself kit....