ahhhh...nothing like a good chemical cocktail everyday, compliments of GC and his merry puppets

The pulp mill here in Powell River had a trial of 'tire-derived fuel'. Luckily, the resulting goop screwed up the power boiler but good, forcing them to rebuild the burner system. I'm thinking coal will the next order of business. Say hello to elevated mercury levels. Say hello to the neo-Victorian era, where one's 12 year old can get a job in the coal mines to help feed an increasingly filthy industry who suddenly "can't make a go of it" with proper environmental regulations. Thanks Gordo et al! This provincial government seems wont to mimic the amazing nastiness perpetrated on the US by a well-known chimp to the south. Time to drill a test well in Ron Erwin's backyard. Mind you, it'll probably be sour gas..

Yes Ron there is sucker born every minute -- you are an obvious case in point. You truly have the most simplistic concept of the economy I can imagine. So do you have job with BC Liberals? An office boy for Monsanto perhaps? It baffles me how you can hold onto the simplistic concepts you do Ron, but you are consistent in the lies and hate you peddle.

Ron, how did things go down at the accountant's office? Don't you remember? You were paying 65% in taxes every year, and I told you to get with the program.

Well, did you fix the problem?

You didn't?

Sucker.

"mill manager Norm Facey downplayed the band's concerns, telling Canadian Press that if the mill were causing health problems, mill employees would be the ones most affected.." If the mill manager took the trouble to look up at the emissions from the stacks he would notice that the pollution is blowing AWAY from the mill therefore the employees are in the safest place.

We're all in this together ... none of this coal effluent should enter what's left of the earth's atmosphere. I'm writing to Gordo today. Again.

I was very proud of Canada when viewing a recent picture of members of a Canadian emergency team delivering pure, ozone-treated water to earthquake-ravaged Pakistanians from a plant that the team had delivered and assembled. All in less than two weeks.

I couldn't help wondering what some of our indigenous people might feel as they viewed that same picture - perhaps they, and families around them suffering stomach cramps, or worse ailments from their polluted water systems, as they did so.

Ok, let us go nuclear.....else close down the mill, thus kill jobs.

If one wants industry then power generation of some sort is required. But it seems no one wants such in their back yard.

never the less, if coal is to be burned, the mill should upgrade to the latest technology, which apparently significantly reduces pollutants from burning coal.

there is the entire story.

the mill, and the gordogovt, have shown, beyond any doubt, that they are about profits.

their motto is not 'profits above people', it is just 'profits'.

people do not even enter into it.

Very interesting comment by the mill manager

In other words this situation is approved and sanctioned by the W.C.B. therefore one would think that any one suffering( workers or other wise) ill effects from fallout, residuals, etc, down stream or as in this situation down wind would be entitled to protection and compensation from the W.C.B. as laid out by the act.

re Burner's comment "their motto is not 'profits above people', it is just 'profits'". The sad thing is that so many of the profits on the bottom lines of corporations do not even stay in B.C. or Canada.
I have always said: "The bottm line is not the
bottom line"

I wonder when Indian bands will stop holding their hands out for government money, and start taking some initative for themselves?

Just thinking hypothetically of course.

There is many a breed of man of affairs. It’s the vile breed that is responsible for dispensing despair.

I hear that there was once a little Asian boy who was bullied to tears time after time. Bullied by a vile breed of men of affairs who bullied because… they could. As that little Asian boy continues to grown he too learns to exploit circumstance – and boy oh boy does circumstance ever lean in his favor.

Perhaps if it were the virtuous breed of men of affairs that were charged with the responsibility managing our affairs in the east we might not be so disturbed about the prospect of grown-up Asian boys.

While virtue has bestowed us cowboys and cowgirls with a very decent quality of life that virtue wasn’t exported. The faculty seemed to be misinformed on the complicated little clauses in Divine Providence that determined who and what deserved our virtue.

I don’t know anyone who relishes the thought of bowing in an Asian homegrown court. Thus, we have it. After some careful thought a consensus is arrived at that dictates we have to kick back our fine hard-fought-for standards if we want to be able to effectively compete! To some the consensus means another great macroenvironmental circumstance that gives way to an opportunity to exploit for profit while the window exists – revival of coal generated energy - and to others it’s a time for painful deliberation on how to best conduct the kickback. To others still, a time for more careful thought.

I wonder when bigots will stop expecting Indian bands to turn the other cheek every time government and industry ignore their human and health rights.

Yes, rather than holding out their hands in futility, perhaps they should be linking hands and shutting that mill down until government, industry and bigots learn that consultation is more than being told to F.O.

Ron Irwin and Darcy McGee would do well to learn more of their own history. Maybe if their ancestors did not exclude First Nations from all benefits of society until 1960 when laws changed to grant Indians the right to vote, own land, (which most non-Indians got for free or next to nothing), owning businesses, acquire a university degree and every right of a citizen their ancestors took for granted and still do, then there would be resources left to do with as they say we should. Nowadays there are unions with seniority lists that are still influenced by the pre-1960 ban on Aboriginal participation. All the commercial landscape has been occupied and exists in a formidable closed shop that is near impossible to permeate. The federal government hold Indian lands in trust for them by law so Indians cannot use them for collateral. If we had ownership recognized by government then we may do as they say, look after ourselves, as we too wish for. Moreover, if they understood that a race based law called the Indian Act still exists which still requires Indian Affairs Ministers' sanction and signature to accomplish ANYTHING on those federal enclaves called Indian reserves, then they wouldn't issue such bigoted tired statements that 21st century Canadians should by now have in their possession given the myriad of information available, (especially in this age of cyberspace), including the $53 million Royal Commission on Aboriginal Affairs that has been totally ignored. They would understand that it takes more than the 4% of the Canadian population to overturn this race based legislation (by the way, South Africa modeled Aparthied after Canada's Indian Act in the 30s...check this out on the same cyberspace you issue your bigoted statements on) and settle outstanding promises made through the Royal Proclamation of 1763 which promises to settle treaties and to protect Aboriginal rights. Honoring the treaties that HAVE been signed would be a good start. Why did their ancestors sign these treaties in the first place. Are we to believe that the treaty process in BC will be honored in the same manner as those of the past?

Before anyone says "but those are old treaties and we didn't sign them" check and see if there any sunset clauses in them. I believe they say, "as long as the sun shines, the grass is green and the water flows and blah blah blah). Their smoke stacks are making it difficult to see the sun, dams stopped many waters from flowing and acid rain is having a drastic effect on the green state of the planet. That being the only sunset clause, then I say we are all in trouble.

Before they rant about Indians not paying taxes, I will remind them that 75% of the Aboriginal population live off-reserve and if lucky enough to be employed, pay taxes in the same manner as they do. Maybe if there were not so many bigots as Irwin and McGee, we may even be able to even get and keep those jobs that we are quite able to do.

If anyone has their hands out, one needs to look no further than those 18,000 plus corporations who make over a million dollars profit annually and pay NO Taxes in Canada. Trust Companies, banks and Insurance companies, one third of those mentioned above, don't pay over $5 billion taxes a year (from the 1997 Annual Federal Budget Framework in Brief, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives quoted in Pal, Leslie A. (1997). “Policy: What is it and who makes it?” In Beyond Policy Analysis: Public Issue Management in Turbulent Times. Scarborough: International Thomson Publishing, p. 12). Last time I checked, they finance all these emission blowing factories who have no concern about anyone's health, let alone a few Indian living down-wind.

Ron George

Ron George. I am with you. I am ashamed of being compared to South Africa . The DEpt. of Indian and Northern Affaire has a budget of around 9 billion dollars per year. The money it spend is not subject to audit by the Auditor General. This money is largley anaccountable. We are simply to trust that all is being spent proporley.
How long can this go on ? forever ?
I know waht I would suggest.
1. Repeal The Indian Act.
2. Dismantle Dept. of Indian and Northern Affairs
3. Return reserves to Crown Land.
4.Use the Notwitstanding Clause in The Charter to overide all Supreme Court ruling.
5. Integrate Indains into Society as equal Canadian citizens.
6. Get on with life with one Canadian Nation.
Nobody will have the guts to do this. I suspect we will be having this same conversation 20 years from now because to tackle these issues have liberal Canadians afraid of being called racist.

Gee ron what do you suggest for your steps 5 and 6. Some "brilliant" white guys had a few suggestions a while back, such as residential schools, making traditional customs illegal, etc., all in the name of assimilation and integration. Your ignorance becomes more and more transparent ron. There's this concept called treaty federalism, something that was entrenched in early contact between First Nations and Europeans. Unfortunately, that concept was all but unilaterally revoked by the powers that be. In order to return to the concept of treaty federalism, people like you ron, racists, and I use the term judiciously, have to realize that Canada is a land of many nations - not just your twisted version of one society for all (i.e. some kind of utopian melting pot). You say to Ron George that you are with him? You are no where near him!

ubiquitous'
don't try to play the race card on me. It may have worked in the OJ trial but it won't work here. Tell me how I am being racist by calling for all men to be equal under God ?Your smoke and mirrors arguments don't work anymore I agrre with our new Governor Genral that multiculturism is not the way to go. Especially were one culture has special rights.
Forget residential schools, we have both public and private schools. If we can fund an Indian private school system that has basically the same corriculum as well as cultural interest offered, what is wrong with that choice ? Indians could choose whatever system they want. It would be payed for out of the 9 Billion per year budget for Northern And Indian Affairs.
Ignorance is bliss my friend. I am looking at this with fresh eyes. Yours are clouded with racism and frustration.

Wow Ron, how can I call you a racist when you hide behind the "all men being equal under God" rhetoric? Well ron, it is racist first and foremost, because of your use of God. It automatically assumes that all men (what about women?) should abide by your notion westernized judeo-christian principles and culture. That in itself is racist at it completely ignores all cultural legitimacy that every First Nations has. Also, the fact the you continue to use the word indian. It may just be semantics, but your continued refusal to NOT use the word further demostrates your racism. And before you pull the "PC" wool over my eyes, I'm not talking about calling janitors, "custodial engineers".

Also, I'm not sure how my eyes are clouded by racism - when you make racist comments, I'm going to respond to them. Ignorance? If you're going to call me names, fine, I can deal with it. But if you can't even attempt to back up your name calling, well, you're a bigger fool than i originally thought. You're right about me being frustrated though. I'm frustrated when someone argues and debates spinning the rhetoric to the point where i'm about to loose my lunch due to dizzyness.

Ciao

This is serious stuff. I won't spend any time on the misinformation of a few agent provocateurs (you know who you are)

The idea tha pulp mill workers are safe at work is proposterous. I give you an example below, and there are many other studies that back this up.

Study Shows High Cancer Risk for Pulp Mill Workers

The B.C. Cancer Agency has recently released the B.C. Cancer Mortality Study of Pulp and Paper Workers. The results of the study clearly indicate a higher mortality rate from cancer for pulp mill workers who have worked in a sulfite-process plant. There is a significantly higher mortality rate for cancers of the esophagus, pleura, kidney and for two types on non-hodgkins lymphoma. Carcinogenic compounds such as 2,4-D and 2,45-t are inadvertently manufactured as part of the pulp mill process and are expelled by bleach plant exhaust pipes. Also, metals leached from pumps and pipes by the corrosive action of chlorine, end up in the paper and in the effluent sludge. These metals include chromium, nickel, cadmium, zinc and lead. Chromium and nickel are carcinogens that are associated with various cancers including cancers of the lymph system. The sludge is generally burnt in the boilers, where high temperatures vaporize the metals which are discharged from the stacks. These metals subsequently cool and return to earth. Many of these compounds are then inhaled by the workers and others who work or live near pulp mills. Although this study only shows higher mortality rates for sulfite mill workers, rates for kraft process workers may also climb as they grow older. More studies are underway that will include statistics on how long the workers were exposed and how long ago they were exposed . For a copy of the study, contact: B.C. Cancer Agency, 600 W. 10th Ave., Vancouver, V5Z 4E6.

http://www.bcen.bc.ca/bcerart/Vol7/studysho.htm

The kindest, gentlest spin on neo-liberal philosophy is that they honestly believe that what is good for business is good for society at large. I almost pity their ignorance, except that it seems to involve a willfull denial or dismisal of any dissenting voice be it scientific, spiritual, cultural or ethical.

The profiteers and corporate masters will be cursed for generations to come and I am sorry I will be lumped in with them or seen as one of the "bewildered herd". I curse them now...
M

ubiquitous' your reponse is not unexpected. Okay, let's take God out of it and say all men and women are created equal. The word Indian is not offensive to any that I know. Why heven't thet changed the name of the Dept. of Indian and Northern Affairs to Dept. of First Nations and Northern Affairs.
What about the term ' working man " so many charish. Is this not offensive to women ?
But I agree lets not get PC about this.
Your response to my ideas was typical. Attack the proponent as racist and leave it at that. Why don't you respond to my ideas instead of this BS.
There are lots of people like me that think we are not doing Indians any favour sby carrying on with the present system.
We actually are trying to help.

I guess Ron, just to leave the emotion out of it for a minute, I actually agree with you that the current system under the Indian and Northern Affairs (and I do wonder why they still use the term Indian) needs some serious reforms - I don't have the answers, plain and simple. What I'm commenting on are your ideas of assimilation are dangerous and they contain echos of a time when government policy was very eurocentric.

Your ideas Ron? You presented one: reforming the current education system that quite frankly has been argued already on other news threads. To be honest, i'm sceptical of your idea because it calls for a serious dismantling of the public education system and leads it down the road to an increase in private provision.

Ubiquitous' thanks for the response. I guess I don't care if Indians assimilate, it's up to anyone to decide if they want to assimilate or not, but you can't refuse to assimilate and still expect those that are already assimilated to pay for it.
We find ways to recognize other cultures within Canada, so why not aboriginal culture ?
I don't believe any Canadian deserves any rights that we all don't get.
In otherwords, I don't believe in any special status for Indians. I know this is radical for a Canadian to say, but we can't go on like we have been forever. There must be a better way of spending 9 billion a year.
Remember that all Canadians could suffer pollution equally.

Hi Ron

Since the conversation has turned sideways and ignored the fact that Aboriginal, First Nations, Indians...it doesn't really matter what we are called, the treatment is the same and colonialism remains as long as the Indian Act and concomitant policies remain. All I can say at this juncture is that your generous solution to turn the $9 billion over to underwrite your Eurocentric solutions that yet again ignores what your $53 million dollar Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples recommends (RCAP), is that the 90% of non-Aboriginal peoples working for that Apartheid department will not be too supportive of your proposed solution. The other 10% who are Abs can get clerical positions elswhere, I'm sure, because far be it from DIA to hire Abs for management and senior positions! They do not consult us to decide how the money is spent, not are we consulted by people like you...yet we are feely given solutions you feel will solve the problem. Can you say RCAP? The one thing good about INAC is they actually have the RCAP findings in its entirety on their website and like you, I don't think they have read it either. If that's not enough, there are boxcars full of our proposed solutions for posterity and ambitious university researchers, and they all concern our wishes to cooperate and abolish the law that makes us different...again, four percent of the population is hardpressed to do anything about it though. And Ron, your integeration idea has failed miserably since John A McDonald thought of it. Not one Indian has turned White and nor could they, because white people passed laws to forbid that happening, ie. the ommission of Indians from citizenry and voting until 1960 so that non-Indians can have exclusive feasts on our resources and commercial landscape. Wouldn't you say that was the biggest legislated affirmative action program for non-Indians in the history of Canada? From 1867-1960? Even when your supreme courts rule in favor of our treaty rights to fish and sell our wares commercially as in the Donald Marshall case in NB, your RCMP "PEACE" officers stood by on national television while white lobster fisherman vandalized the Migmaw fishing efforts. When your infamous Fisheries Minister Dahliwahl suggested that all Aboriginal Fisherpersons need are 40 traps each while non-Aboriginals were allotted 270 traps, what do you suggest Aboriginal peoples do to solve their lot? In the face of RCMP and armed Fisheries Officers who spent $15 dollars to violate their own supreme court ruling to run down,capsize and literally cut the boats in half on national television, tell me Ron, didn't you feel a bit ashamed to see the racism so overtly displayed for the world to see? How do you explain the 40/270 trap ratio solution? This is the year 2000! This is a microcosm of what we need to endure and deal with on a daily basis, and it gets pretty tiresome listening to opinions that should be researched better when the most researched people in the history of North America could inform your bliss. You can do better.

Sorry, the dollar amount for the anti-Migmaw campaign in 2000 was $15 million. Pretty dedicated oppression, n'est pas?

Ron George

I share We Wai Kai First Nation’s concerns about cancer risks from living down wind from air-borne stack emissions at the Elk Falls Mill. For years I regularly received ash fallout on my property from the Crofton mill and thought nothing of it. I now know that the ash that covered everything in my life, my house, the garden, the grass that my babies crawled on (and certainly consumed) was contaminated with dioxin. Although we were told by the mill’s environment manager that the ash only contained 1% of the total amount of dioxin coming out of the mill, (the dioxin is formed from burning salty hog, from transporting logs in the ocean), and despite assurances from the environment manager at the mill and the government pollution permit officer, I am concerned about our long term health. We have since moved away from the direct path of the emissions, but I will worry about my children’s long term health from their exposure in their early years. Everything I’ve read says that no amount of dioxin is safe, and that it builds up in the environment and causes cancer. Mill management says they want to burn coal and tires to reduce dioxin emissions by burning hotter (Oh, yeah…and to save money from burning natural gas). Sounds great! But burning coal will increase mercury emissions, and may reduce dioxin emissions slightly. Pick your poison!

Sorry I wasn't able to be here for the early part of this thread.

Erwin and ilk, of course, typify the Yankee and White colonizer, wannabe view of this issue too, of course, which is basically, "Phuck Aboriginal interests and national aspirations.", indeed anybody's but that of their Washington mentors. And where there is no direct conflict with that prime directive of the Braunshirt wingnut, they may deign to any other predominately White, colonizing imperial secondary interest, like say the so-called Canadian national State. (When it isn't itself head deep, breathing up the arse of The Empire itself.)

Like I keep saying in these native issue threads, majority society Canadians are producing about a 1.4 birth rate (or in that area) per woman in the population. Natives, in a recent survey I picked up on CBC radio, have an average family size, if I remember correctly, in excess of 7. Indeed, all that is maintaining the dominant culture is massive immigration to make up for their lack of "prowess" at reproduction. :-)

And what that says going forward, given that population growth rate discrepancy, assuming it continues of course, is that "White/Colonial" interests are not much longer going to be able to ignore the Native interest to maintain themselves as national entities, with the benefit of their own territories, share of natural resources, economies, and such simple requisites as clean friggin' water.

Given the subliminal guilt of the dominant culture re the "original theft" upon which their much vaunted "standard of living" is based, there is a similar subliminal tendency there to see their victim "assimilated" or otherwise, not much care if they are poisoned by their inadequate water systems and airborne chemicals from burning coal emissions etc.

To here, given the degree to which Native populations were successfully decimated by coincidental and deliberately infested disease and State policy early in the colonization, there was little they were able to do about it, despite all their protestations. Their populations are rebounding closer and closer to historical levels however, and that is destined, in my view, to assert itself sooner or later over State "assimilationist" policies, and the outright advocacy of the fascist view of Natives as untermenschen peoples typified by such as Yankee Erwin and his Braunshirt cohorts here.

The worm is about to turn here, Yankee Erwin and Company. Get used to it. Even Viagra isn't likely to improve the situation for us White folks. :-) An aging population still produces decrepit spermies, and feeble female fertility rates. The decline is already well established.

Cayote'
I am not buying your thoughts on this. You cannot make me feel guilty. I am not guilty of anything but asking for equality for Indians, not superiority.
We won, they lost, as with any other region of the world.
You don't find past defeated cultures in Europe or anywhere else expecting payback years later. Why should it be only in Canada.
And what about the various Indian bands wiped out by other Indian bands.
I know I don't have a hope in hell of selling this to anyone.
Canadians have been brainwashed into guilt by our institutions to believe in reverse racism.
Besides, Indians were not the first race in North America, ever heard of Kenowith Man ?
Please forgive me for wanting to help these people achieve what we all have.
Who really is the racist here ?

Indeed.

I would say the one who believes in his own innate superiority, as in, "We won, they lost..." And, "Please forgive me for wanting to help these people achieve what we have."

You really do think all but you and your precious race, and even many of them, are untermenschen. That much quickly becomes obvious reading your piece.

Now, I don't believe in anyone's innate superiority. All in their pasts somewhere have their histories as both being slave and slave owners. Nor do I think the crimes and greed of the past should be carried forward into the present, when there is an opportunity to right a historical wrong. Women too have occupied an untermenschen status in ALL societies and cultures for thousands of years. That being so, has the innate superiority of the male been similarly historically demonstrated and an unalterable fact?

And we have what, Yankee Erwin?

An increasingly resource depleted planet, decimated fisheries, pollutant undermined weather systems, polluted river systems, and forestry decline in part a consequence of not only rip, rape and run forestry, but also raw log shipments to the Empire heartland, to which you constantly bow as your value system Mecca, streets filled with begging poor, widespread violence, and class and ethnic/racial inequalities, and imperial wars we take to every part of the globe to feed our Greed Machine Economy.

While your head is stuck in the sand there Erwin, filled with delusional dreaming, your drawers have fallen down around your ankles, and everyone is laughing at the sight of you.

You are one of those mad dogs and Englishmen who don't know enough to come in out of the midday sun.

Don't worry Cayote, you are vastly over doing it.
Man doesn't have that much influence in the end.
Did you know that if you gathered every living human being on the planet and packed them into a box, that box would only be 1 cubic mile 1 mile x 1 mile x 1 mile. You can hardly see this from space.
Have some optimism, there is plenty to go around. Lighten up bud.

Which ignores all of the relevant questions, Yanqui Bub.

No answers?

untermenschen ??

Untermenschen (German for subhuman) is a term from Nazi racial ideology. Derived from 19th century racial theory, Nazi ideology held that the Germanic peoples were, as the master race (Herrenvolk), superior to other European peoples (such as Slavic peoples and Romanic peoples) and that all other peoples represented lesser races of varying degrees. Groups regarded as Untermenschen included Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Altaic peoples and Africans. The term was borrowed from older 19th century sources.

Coyote thanks for the definition,much appreciated.