The weirdest part is that people in those countries where the jobs are being outsourced can't wait to get out of these countries and come here. Something went wrong somewhere I would say...

George Orwell's, "1984" could be re-published and re-named as "NOW". "Solent Green" may also be reappear as non-fiction.
Who knows? Maybe Stephen King's, "THE STAND" is the window on the world after an avian flu pandemic.
Interesting and troubling times.

"What we are seeing is the start of global wage equalization. This will be followed by global equalization of our living standard."

Actually what we are seeing is quite the opposite. We know for a fact that the last 10 - 15 yrs of globalization has produced a mass increase in the amount of the world's poor( almost 3 billion of the worlds people live on
less than 3 dollars a day) and a huge benefit to the largest and wealthiest corporations. What globalization does is remove the power's of the nation state and set conditions that are advantageous only to the company. In short
globalizations goal is to remove the power of people and governments in the move ment of trade.

"While sweatshops and slave labor may attract capital investments, what about the futures of black welfare mothers in Detroit or the Aborigines in Australia, who need government assistance to take advantage of, say, the educational system? How or why does U.S.-style globalism affect their needs? U.S.-style globalism not only attempts to suppress labor, but also seeks to suppress social welfare systems and support for public expenditures that do not directly benefit the expansion of capital. The social welfare system and other public services, such as schools, social services in the North and food subsidies in the South, are supported through taxes, and taxes reduce short-term benefits to capital. "

Anyone who knows anything about global issues knows how new countries are brought into the system, first they need IMF and World Bank loans with "conditions" Usually the markets have to opened , all natural resources and
public heath and education have to open to capital and be privatized. For example Iraq is like a huge garage sale to private capital at this time. (all the conditions of sale are advantageous to US corporations)

we have seen with soft wood rulings and the beef issue, some players don't follow the rules, imagine how the 3rd world is being treated if they can treat Canada like this.

We have a misconception that we are rich and bring prosperity to the so call 3rd world while in fact we are poor and they are rich. We cannot sustain ourselves with our own resources, what we do is open and take
markets and the wealth of other nations at conditions totally favorable to us, we don't go to other countries because their poor. That makes no business sense, we go because their rich.

Their rich in cheap labor, rich in cheap resources, the incredible wealth of the world has been stolen from the 3rd world, these people are capable and can took after themselves. We have this kind of racism that says without us these countries would disappear. Well if we study history we would know most countries would be much better off
if we stayed away. The people of the 3rd world know this and the vast majority of the people in the G8 know this, globalization is a network of elites who want trade barriers removed . NAFTA can never happen, Brazil, Peru , Bolivia, Argentina, "Venezuela and (Mexico is the major is allowed to run in the next election) . These countries know and are rejecting the whole free trade of the Americas . What we are seeing in BC is just the beginning if we don't also make a stand

Pick up the domumentary http://www.thecorporation.com/
The Corporation, a must see, it's on video now

Sorry about the typos, deadlines to meet

Well from what I hear the lustre of outsourcing is starting to wear off, head offices are finding that initial saving don’t always make up for the long term headaches and I recall a recent article in one of the business magazines talking about their poor experiences.

Also India is starting to have a shortage of skilled workers and is focusing on their own development. Only parts of India is so far benefiting from the economic boost and they will have to tread carefully not to upset their own delicate internal balance.

Don’t know how much to take the threat of China taking our jobs. Certainly we will not get much benefit from manufactured goods as the Chinese economy is highly protected by both cheap labour and laws. China is not a very stable country, it is being held together with an Iron fist, but huge problems are looming:

25 million surplus males
desertification of NW China
Lack of resources to name a few

There is also a shortage of skilled labour in China and production of quality good is spotty. Some stuff is excellent, such as piano’s and they have a busy and relatively stable arms manufacturing capacity. However the quality of manufactured goods will vary wildly from factory to factory. A friend of mine gets gears, electric motors and casing made in China, finding a reliable source of parts has been a difficult and expensive process.

China is also beginning to build it’s muscle in both military and foreign affairs, it wants to be a regional superpower by the next 10 years and may decide to become a world superpower in 20. This is why it is building up it’s fleet of bluewater ships and subs. They also use their economic muscle to isolate Taiwan, using both threats and reward to any country that is considering recognizing Taiwan. China intends to incorporate the island back under it’s control by economic or military means. It is not surprising that the whole SE Asia is busy rearming itself as the likelihood of a regional conflict will be high in the next 10-15 years.

Having seen the "value" of IT outsourcing at many US clients, it can only be thought of as short-sighted. The time-zone, distances involved, language barriers, technology incompatiblities, and on and on put the core of enterprises at risk.

I'd expect a reversal of this is about 3 to 5 years.

For a lighter view of the sell off of BC

http://www.vancourier.com/issues05/103105/photos/sunday-cartoon.jpg

Funny but sad example,

My uncle tells me in the UK they have outsourced their 411 directory services to India. You get these Brits calling India with their strong accents and they end up having to
repeat and spell everything they say word for word. A very frustrating process for business.

I also see this as not only inefficient but it makes bad economic sense. For example In June stats Can said that 48,000 FT Blue collar industrial jobs left Canada and 33,000 new retail jobs were created. So we lost good paying jobs for more jobs at the mall.

Even the most conservative pundits say that this trend cannot continue for any long term. We are exporting money from our country to benefit a very concentrated group of shareholders.

With the Government picking up healthcare costs as well as providing an unemployment insurance scheme, you would think that corporations would view Canada as being a desirable location. But alas not. Why ?

For decades I have decried this outsourcing, before it was even called outsourcing. Back in the seventies it was apparent to me that if people make a couple of bucks a day to manufacture say running shoes that retail for $100, the people making them won't be buying many pairs.

Crusty old Henry Ford, definitely no pro-union guy (look up Harry Bennett and the murder of union organizers at the Rouge plant in Dearborn in the dirty 30's) doubled the daily rate for manufacturing jobs, because he realized that Ford Motor Company couldn't prosper selling cars only to rich people. By paying his workers better he forced other makers to raise wages and the higher wages created a market for automobiles from Ford, GM and Chrysler. It is debatable from the vantage point of today - with pollution, global warming and wars over oil - if that was a good thing, of course.

The corporate "free marketeers" seem oblivious to the question of just who will buy all their worthless crap once nobody but them earns more than a bare subsistance wage.

We as members of the "First World" should be prepared to be less greedy in our consumption of the worlds resources so that they are shared more equitably on a global basis. For too long too few in Europe and North America have hogged the bounty of the planet, leaving only scraps for billions of those not fortunate enough to be born in the 1st World.

Everyone in society though should be prepared to sacrifice, including the obscenely rich. The US now trails only Russia and Mexico in the size of the gap between rich and poor. With people like drunken Gord and Badwater Harris setting the agenda, Canada is chasing after those shining examples of disparity. I don't think this is most peoples' idea of the type of country Canada was, is or wants to be.

By the way, I discovered today that in 1930, shortly after the Crash of '29 a barrel of Texas crude could be bought for 4 CENTS, yet over a million used cars were sitting unsold, carmakers were laying off workers and most people could not afford to drive. Many carmakers like Stutz, went under and even what we today call the Big Three just managed to struggle along until the second world war came along and "stimulated" the economy.

One of our resident NeoCon apologists Ron Erwin said:

In fact Ron, in the case of GM at least, for this exact reason the plants in Southern Ontario are likely to fare much better in the upcoming round of massive lay-offs and plant closures that are already happening or imminent as GM is verging on bankruptcy.
Of course in Michigan the high health costs for the "best" medical system money can buy eats into GM's bottom line.

But the advantages of no health care costs in Canada isn't as competitive as going to some country where people are willing to work a 10 or 12 hour day for what a North American needs per hour, in order to live. This doesn't even consider the savings available with relaxed environmental and safety standards in these cheap labor jurisdictions.

Why, Ron? Because we won't work for 2 dollars a day in hell hole conditions. We fought that 85 years ago. Most factory owners here think it's morally reprehensible to make a little child work all day, instead of having a childhood. Some who have moved their manufacturing can't be said to feel that way and they ought to be ostracized. A start is will our pocket books. We have a right to live a live where we are not economic slaves, just as the third world does. Among the most obscene is making the 3rd world purchase GMO terminator seed,in spite of the ill health it causes both in humans and in the environment.

I agree with others who feel Globalization is dead and we are seeing a rise in nationalism. This is a trend which has about ridden its course. But, as Ralston Saul says, we're going to have to be careful this nationalism doesn't include the worst aspects of it.

Raulston Saul?

I suppose a person with no job making zero dollars per day might view a job that pays $2.99 per day as a way out of poverty, wouldn't you think ?

an excellent start - and i'm looking forward to seeing the next installments. there are some things we all need to remember. the environment notwithstanding (which is a huge issue, i'll be the very first to admit, on its own), wealth creation is not a 'closed loop' - just because you CREATE a job in one place does not necessarily mean that you're TAKING away from another.
wealth and income distribution is a huge issue. so, too, is indigence and ghettoization (cf. New Orleans). what do we do with those areas of the world that are 'passed over' by companies, and countries, for that matter. keep n'awlins going as a museum piece?
there are some scary environmental impacts in the fact that bicycle riding chinese are trading in their bikes for two-stroke motor scooters (the faster to get to one of their three jobs), and
in the so called 'intellectual' western world, we've 'done wealth,' 'celebrity culture', 'tv', the internet, and so on. and people have found out that, for the most part, it doesn't make 'em any happier. we are all totally screwed up by the values of materialism - read Alain de Botton's brilliant 'status anxiety' and see if it's not true.
given the fact that we've exploited the shit out of 'em for centuries, i, for one, am not going to 'preach' to the third world and tell them to learn from our mistakes. that would be just so much more paternalism.
there comes, as our good moderator david beers (author of Blue Sky Dream) a point at which manufacturing jobs become VERY high tech, and the risks of outsourcing are HUGE. i actually think that a lot of the jobs that Charles is referring to are call-centre jobs, and they go begging here in the Okanagan. really, who needs more $8 an hour jobs? they'll shut down their plants likely because they can't in fact FIND people to take the jobs.
Tech, in fact, is roaring back, and the irony is (according to a recent G&M article) that many university students were scared off by the tech meltdown, and have since gone into other careers.
we are moving towards a free agent society. this is both good, and bad for people. great for go-getters and autonomous thinkers who value things like surf time and powder days, maybe bad for those who require more structure in their lives. you do have to think on your feet and make informed choices. sometimes, you will screw up, and the consequences might be greater than if you screwed up in a union job. and sometimes, it won't even be your fault, but it will happen, just the same. hey, that's life.
we are all beset with choices. one downside to free agency as a society is that banks don't lend money for mortgages to free agents, though these days, banks are lending money to just about everybody. times are changing, and the hidebound us vs them union/mgmt ideology is breaking down.
a 'flat world,' indeed...

Why do yo think that the subset of people not in the corporate elite and not with their heads buried in the sand were busy in seattle, quebec and anywhere else the proponents of globilization have met? Busy protesting the demise of democracy and the middle class which will be be replaced with a modern day global feudal state.

"With the Government picking up healthcare costs as well as providing an unemployment insurance scheme, you would think that corporations would view Canada as being a desirable location. But alas not. Why ?"

Because an organized nation doesn't offer corporations the chance to control the population through a crooked government. If you own a company that make shirts and can pay someone in a third world country a buck a day to make 24 of them, that you sell to North Americans for $50 a pop, do you want that country to begin to prosper? No, you want them kept poor so you can keep paying them no money, then stand back and say, "It's better than nothing!" Then you go and pretend to help them out by getting the World bank to say (As is well known in Bolivia) "We'll give you debt relief and aid if you privatize your water supply." Then after that is done, you jack up the price of water to rates no one in a third world could possibly afford. So now the people are even more assured to stay poorand sick. And your overhead stays down. And hey, if they protest, just tell said corrupt government to open fire! Think I'm making this up? I'm not.

We need a gov't with vision who will not deliberately work towards the oppression of people, but who is wise and can help off set this trend until it runs itself out.

Can you imagine what good shape we would be in if we still had our public assets? In the very near future this trend will be over and then we will be facing foreign ownership of our belongings and a form of indentureship.

Can you imagine how well we would be doing with all the transfer payments and resource money put into services and 'real' infrastructure that belongs to us, not to some foreign entity, built on our money?

I really believe that Campbell and some of his closer associates will end up being investigated. I really believe the RCMP will take action against them. I'm sure Black etal thought it would never catch up with them either. And, Cheney's office'computers were taken a few weeks ago in the investigation of the CIA leak. I bet he thought that would never happen as well. And, who knows what else is on those computers.

If I were Taylor, I'd be very careful what I'd sign off on, that's for sure.

" i, for one, am not going to 'preach' to the third world and tell them to learn from our mistakes. that would be just so much more paternalism."

There's only one world. We need to shake that sense of division. We need to get rid of the idea that where you live is some justification for being paid more or less. We need to lose the borders.

Pie in the sky I know, but the alternative is continued oppression in the name of the almight dollar.

stump - you are correct, there only is 'one world' which is why the 'notwithstanding' the environmental effects. that, more than the buck, is the real issue.
but, then, what about 'multinationals' like Home Depot, that buy only 'environmentally approved' BC lumber? i rather doubt it was any great consumer boycott that started that one - more like 'we have an educated clientele who might be concerned about the sourcing of our products.'
wage wise, the race to the bottom stuff will run its course soon enough. i should know, i cheaped out two years ago on a roofing job.

There is only one world. I am listening to an AM radio station from Edmonton on my PC. I can read The Guardian newspaper from Britain online.
God only knows how many bloggs I can read. Anyone who can't figure out that the world is coming to our doorstep ( CRTC anyone ? ) is pretty stupid.
The world is flat, I told you all this years ago. WE are only helping to spread wealth by giving much needed jobs to the third world.
Selfish Canadians must begin sharing with the poor and unfortunate.

Your not spreading wealth. You're exploiting the poor there. Making them change their lives, putting their health at risk, poisoning their food, disrupting their social structures and skimming massive profits.

Proud of yourself?

I fail to see how giving someone who has absolutely nothing a job paying $2.99 a day as exploiting them. I would think this would help them. And if lifting them out of poverty is disrupting their social fabric, I say this is a good thing.

Please..... C.I.R.E. Please!!

So someone in Canada might make $299 a week, but my buddy Ron Erwin sees absolutely no contradiction in taking that job away and giving it to someone for $2.99 a day.

Ron, I think you left something out of your equation and it's causing all kinds of consternation.

If a company is willing to pay a Canadian $299 a week, yet finds someone somewhere else to do it for say $15 to $21 a week (any days off?), what happens to the profits?

Does the company turn around and contribute to health protection, environmental concerns or say helping to feed the millions of people in that new country who will never get the basic education required to apply for work?

Does the company owe anything to the workers it has just turfed into the EI can (if lucky)?

Will the company try to train those low paid workers to sound like the former higher paid workers so that customers think that company help is just around the corner rather than hiding half way around the globe?

Ron, any chance you will be leaving for one of those new oversease jobs any time soon?

"I suppose a person with no job making zero dollars per day might view a job that pays $2.99 per day as a way out of poverty, wouldn't you think ?"

Are you going to tell that to your grandkids when they're out of private school and looking for work? That $3 a day is a way out of poverty?

Allan' you ask what happens to the profits. Maybe you should be asking, " how can they make a toaster and sell it to me for only $15.99 ? "
We benefit by having our dollar more valuable to us.
Afterall, after we pay 65% in taxes, we don't have much left.
Don't you care about these poor people ? How greedy can you get.

The question of outsourcing boils down to do you think the society that pays for the products should benefit from the money and jobs derived from their manufacture?

Or do you think that its healthy for a community to not produce what they themselves use, as much as possible?

In my opinion, a community that doesn't produce, dies. Its children won't have jobs, its wealth will slowly be transferred out of the community and the community will lurch from crisis to crisis until its gone altogether.

On the other hand, a community that produces will eventually demand that its members be able to purchase the products it produces. The pressure will increase by several magnitude when old markets are no longer there because they're too poor to buy. Eventually India and China will be the centres of wealth and North America will be a hollowed out shell consisting of those whose income derives from overseas and a huge number of poor.

Ron, read my above post. This issue isn't, as you said; "lifting them out of poverty is disrupting their social fabric, I say this is a good thing."

Because it ISN'T helping them, as I said before. These companies are kept impoverished on purpose, to keep cheap labour. It doesn't lift them from poverty, it merely prolongs their suffering.
What needs to happen is companies need to put some of their huge profit into helping those nations develop. SO they can have strong economies on their own.

Corporations are not breaking any laws. Maybe the problem is the laws themselves. Our legal-system is based on trading(economics), no matter how badly a corporation screws-up the environment they can pay a monetary fine and the eco-system is back to normal right. Think CN Rail.

Even if all the jobs were kept in Canada, human technology has advanced to such a point where very liitle labour is required to do many tasks. According to trading(economics) those people should starve. Corporate traders are just doing what politicians let them do.

Law-makers(politicians) are the ones allowing outsourcing to take place, at the same time they are also destroying social-programs that are the bedrock of more egalitarian societies.

"Corporations are not breaking any laws."

Yeah, none in Canada, so they go to places where there are no laws that can't be broken provided compensation is offered.

Teachers, Doctors, Nurses, Telus employees, Janitors...are all paid too much.

It seems everyone in this country is overpaid except CEO's and Politicians who are grossly underpaid; according to themselves.

Maybe the best thing for Canada's economy would be to pass a law halving everyone's salary(except those underpaid mentioned above). Then we can stop the horror of working people stealing the food out the mouths of the rich and powerful.

I don't know who will buy all those expensive cars, T.V.'s ...

For those enlightened, the question is moot. Local economies are the only answer to a chance at sustainability. Not increasing global competition and outsourcing menial labour. These add to the problem. As does the move from a rural society to that of an urban welfare state. We are herded into these consummer zones and and then force fed a steady stream of toxic propaganda that weakens the immune system and makes you less productive in a free and real democratic society. You are loosing your rights, and no safety net will be there to catch you, when economic collapse rides in to town. Remember it's man made, economics does not occur in nature.
The clues are all around you. Monsanto/Cargil and biopiracy. Google Dr. Vandana Shiva. I first saw her in the documentary "the Corporation." You'll get a kick out of reading how corporations are now gaining patents on exisiting life forms as if they invented them. Hilarious except when you realize the consequence. The stated goal of five corporations to control all food and health services on the planet. Funny stuff. And a gathering of a few thousand protesters scares some of you!

Don't forget "Peak Oil" Did anyone catch Noam on Co-op radio today?

How do you know that 15.99 toaster isn't made of radio active metal, Ron? No regulations in this predator's nirvana.

Toaster 15.99
Loaf of White Wonder Bread 2.49
Shelf life of toaster 3.6

loaves per month = 16,312 slices of peanut butter toast.
Smile on Ron's face with every bite....priceless!

redrivergirl; ever heard of CSA ?

Why are products such as children's products made of lead etc recalled then, Ron?

You actually trust that those products contain what they say? Apparently not.

Ron. CSA?
Do you always just sit back and trust the powers that be to protect you?

It seems that you say the Government and its agencies are incompetent or competent depending on which cause you're arguing at the time.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2002/2002-02-26-07.asp

There is a lot of info online if you google.

You don't think that this stuff isn't been made into pots and pans, do you? Kind of like feeding cows ground up sick cows? What do you think?

Ron, we are all interconnected. Last night on the global news, Kevin Newman reported the new Clean Sky law, or whatever the Orwellian term for allowing industry to pollute, will make our air more polluted. It's going to have a detrimental effect on you, on me and on your grandchildren.

And, for the rest of you union buster types what do think about those people working in that? Think a strong union might eliminate it?

Unionization is the future. Industry needs to get with the program. And, be smart, both on energy issues, environmental and social issues. There is no future for anyof us if this isnt' stopped.

I more than occasionally find myself agreeing with Ron Erwin: "Selfish Canadians must begin sharing with the poor and unfortunate."

I'll be sure to remind you of this next time I hear A PEEP out of you about high taxes. An election's on it's way Ron - I assume you'll be voting New Democrat with me this time.

Slightly off topic but kind of interesting:

I live at the end of Highway 101 and then some.

On my way into town today to support the teachers I noticed two Telus picketers at the side of the road on a pretty lonely stretch of highway.

I couldn't figure it out until I looked up and then it all became perfectly clear. They were picketing a scab working up a telephone pole.

I wish I had brought my camera with me. I did beep the horn as I went by though. :-)

His Worship today extolls CSA. Tomorrow he'll be calling it "Government Interference".

Anyway, today I recieved this public advisory:

CDC Alert
"The Center for Disease Control has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of Sexually Transmitted Disease. This disease is contracted through dangerous and high risk behavior.

The disease is called Gonorrhea lectim (pronounced "gonna re-elect him"). Many victims contracted it in 2004, after having been screwed for the past 4 years, in spite of having taken measures to protect themselves from this especially troublesome problem.

Cognitive sequelae of individuals infected with Gonorrhea Lectim include, but are not limited to: Anti-social personality disorder traits; delusions of grandeur with a distinct messianic flavor; chronic mangling of the English language; extreme cognitive dissonance; inability to incorporate new nformation; inability to accept responsibility for actions; exceptional cowardice masked by acts of misplaced bravado; uncontrolled facial smirking; ignorance of geography and history; tendencies toward creating evangelical theocracies; and a strong propensity for categorical, all-or-nothing behavior.

The disease is now epidemic in Washington, DC. Epidemiologists are amazed and baffled at how this malignant disease, which originated only a few years ago from a bush in Texas, is spreading throughout the world.

A recent example of its infectious virulence is now being witnessed in Canada's British Columbia, where an outbreak, which apparently has been building up for a few years, is nearly epidemic.

To date the only cure known is massive doses of truth serum, which being very unpleasant for the patient, is a last resort remedy.

Ron, I am interestd to know where you arrived at your taxation figure of 65%. I am not necessarily refuting this figure, but I think it is a small exaggeration.

Obviously it depends what a person earns, but in 1999 the average Canadian family of four paid 48.2% of their income in taxes. A family earning $200,000 per year paid 51% of its income in taxes.

Now, this data is older -- it's from 1999 -- but I think it still holds some relevance today. This poll was administered by Gallup Canada and was reported in Reader's Digest. http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/1999/06/think_01.html

The CSA is a private company and not a government agency.

The The' The 65% rate I quote is the real rate of taxes based on PST and GST that is charged on gas, smokes, booze, prepared foods and the like. There is no sense in us not accounting for those taxes.

What are the consequences of peak oil you ask? Good question! The msm picks up on the first one right away, planting reporters outside gas stations everywhere with signs that show gas at 113.9/l. As we approach or pass peak oil production everything gets more expensive. Extraction and refining too, it's the end of cheap energy. This "global" economy you all seem so proud of will collapse under the weight of rising energy costs. Everything you depend on relies on cheap energy. We continue to build our future based on this notion that cheap energy is a given. Localized disasters suh as Tsunami, earthquake or hurricane give us a glimpse of what can occur when supply lines are disrupted. What is the cost of keeping those lines open today and in the next few years. So you can have bananas and mangoes on your plate. So we can export raw logs and import nice furnature. I hope Tyee continues with 100 mile diet series, as this is not just an experiment to help reduce green house gases, but quite likely the economy of the future.
Selfish Canadians? Selfish Species.

In other words Ron, you have no evidence for your 65% figure.

c of r, I was just going to ask what is the problem with peak oil :-)

I saw a good documentary on this on Vision TV, called the End of Suburbia.

Peak oil is BS big time. It's based on the scenario we have now, with only one US State even allowed to drill ( see eco-farauds ).
There are parts of Asia that have a lot of oill, but the infrastruture of pipelines is a political football to deal with right now.
There is probably 90$ ot the oil left for use, but ecological and political issues prevent us from getting at it.
And Frank, you are the one to determine how much tax you are willing to pay. But don't fool yourself about how much you are actually paying.

Scylla, that is very clever and oh so true!

.

The variations are endless! It really is a fascinating issue. 25 years ago there were environmental concerns, slashing and burning the Amazon, pollution and loss of diversity. As if those weren't complex enough, add in economics, politics and this whole false idol of capitalism. The golden goose is out there! Food aid, health care, education, GMO and all the local issues that people need to be concerned about. It is universal that citizens now feel pressure and angst, but there is no common theme to rally the masses. We are all spread too thin, fighting our local battles. That's why the rally in Vicoria was so good to see. That people can be mobilized. Not to take away from their cause, but it's small potatoes when you compare it to survival of the species. So when are we going to rally on behalf of our very own survival? There is some pretty strong evidence and opinion out there that we better do it soon. I think there is time, but not when you waste it arguing with the likes of Ron Erwin about his flat earth theory.

Peak Oil, or this H5N1 pandemic alert, or the next human crises is viewed in different ways! For some it's just another crises with no link to anything else happening in the world. On the other hand, we can link many things together, like the collapse of local economies and reliance on foriegn aid. Not enough people are getting it! They don't see the consequences of their own lives, families, jobs, consummer habits. Gloom and doom doesn't seem to register with them, so what is it that will turn the table? Human nature may be at work here. We haven't evolved fast enough to deal with this type of crises and greed still so prevalent. It's these reasons I think there is pessimism. We just didn't mature fast enough to deal with this big an issue. That's just putting it nicely. The fact is there is absolutely no sign of any intelligent design going on anywhere in human terms.

Anyone need a reminder as to how low the big reptiles roamed the earth? Guess that walnut sized brain may have been big enough after all!
What's your definition of success?

The end of cheap energy will end the days of ceasar salads being shipped from California to Anchorage.

The days of cheap global transportation are coming to a close. Instead, we've arrived in an age of almost-free global communication.

Might be a good time for 1st world software developers to learn to grow food.

Other than that, its hard for me to conceive of the implications.

Ron, yes, we do choose our own tax rates. I would imagine a trucker, who has to pay all the taxes on gas is taxed at a much higher rate than me.

But I know I don't pay anywhere near 65%. For example I pay GST and PST on less than a third of what I spend money on so that tax rate is more like 4%. I don't have a long commute or anything so gas taxes would be less than even 1% for me.

All in all, I know my tax rate is under 40%.

In 1994 I visited my brother who was working for a mining exploration company in place called Km88 near the Gran Sabanna, Venezuela. The only companies that were obeying the environmental laws were the Canadian companies, because it was cheaper to do so, than to suffer a visit from the completely corrupt police.

Globalization is going to happen whether you like it or not. It started when someone put a sail on their dugout. What you can do is force companies to abide by certain standards when operating in foreign countries, this is not easy and there are ways for them to work around it. A company that employs people in a third world country and does it well is a benefit. I was speaking to someone that worked in Indonesia for years, they said tha the best factory they went into was the Mattel one that made Barbie’s. they were clean, well ventilated and safety oriented. But they did not pay as well as the other places that had dismal conditions. He said at one factory that made shoes for a famous company that he saw a pregnant woman faint from the glue being used. He had to tell the manager not to put pregnant woman in jobs that had exposure to chemical. Exploitation of the workers/peasants is a Asian practice that has been going on long before North America was discovered by Eric the Red.

However I do agree with trying to keep jobs here in the resource, agricultural manufacturing and technical industries. No decent jobs mean no middle class and no middle class means no wealth for the country.

But Colin, "What you can do is force companies"

this is exactly the reason why things like NAFTA are invented. Its not to allow trade, trade would happen anyway, its to prevent legislation forcing better practices.

Barbies are $15. I think Mattel could pay a few extra shekels to their workers.

Hello Colin, like I've said before...We can easily go back to putting sails on the canoes. In fact think of those beautiful clipper ships sailing the trade routes once again. Hmm?

Oh ya, just in case anyone read the comments from the flat earth society above.
PEAK OIL is real. The issues are when and what are the consequences. But please, do continue to encourage Ron on these and other issues. It seems he has been adopted as the Tyee "web pet." I declare C.I.R.E. dead. Fire at will.

IMHO, peak oil is not real. And in any case, it is not as imminent as we are told.

There are two arguments militating against peak oil, neither of which "proves" - one way or the other - the actual numbers concerning oil reserves, or those yet to be found.

The first is that oil "scarcities" mean more profits for the oil companies. Tied into that is the US determination to "protect" its supply lines.

The second is the hullaballoo raised by enviros re Global Warming blamed upon use of hydrocarbons, and their insistence we switch immediately - regardless of cost - to alternate energy sources. Peak oil lends a too convenient urgency to that call.

The point here is not that either is wrong or right, but rather that putting "spin" on data is inherently dishonest and in the end does us all a disservice by forcing us to act upon contrived data.

Great, another member of the flat earth society.

Frank
Interesting that Mattel put the money into the “livability” of the factories and that the people there preferred the risks of working in the dirty factories for more money. It says to me that the workers are not aware of the risks or that the need/desire for more money is the driving force.

You won’t get me agreeing with NAFTA. Knew it was a bad idea from the beginning. I was thinking more of shareholders becoming the conscience of the company. It would require a change in laws. Perhaps if your shares were in a company with a particular certification in regards to oversea practices, than you pay less tax on the dividend. Companies with a bad track record would cause a shareholder to pay a higher tax on profits. It would be difficult to enforce though.

Club
Those “beautiful clipper ships” were for the most part poorly built fragile ships that were built to complete a few voyages to pay for themselves, make a tidy profit and then sold off. Their reign was very short, life on them was brutish and often short. The men worked hard, suffered the rope’s end if they slacked and if they didn’t fall off the topmast in a gall, they suffered broken limbs and TB. Speed was everything, both men and ship paid the price dearly.

Far better that you romance about the Nitrite trade and ships like the Peking, which were consider the peak of performance, strength and carrying capcity.

Mechanical sails have been tried on cargo ships and one such ship used to make a regular call here. I believe a number have also been fitted with those tubular mast similar to the Calypso II.

Club
A little (lot) off topic

Try to find a film called “around the horn” filmed in the 20-30’s by a sailor on a Nitrate boat.

Also Chappel’s book: “The search for speed under sail, a history of American sailing ship design”
This book will show you that ship owners were trying to avoid custom duties by altering ship design back in the 1600’s

Club, if you mean to say I'm not "Politically Correct", you're right.

If I am indeed on a "flat earth", at least I can see where I'm going, and so am in no danger of falling off. Unlike a lemming, I don't need to a follow leader's bad advice to prove "solidarity".

You don't like me saying there's no reality about peak oil? Well, I've been following this oil issue for at least five years now, and have seen so many outright lies from enviros re oil, that I stopped reading their "news" releases.

That doesn't mean I think Oil Industry propaganda is all true, either. However, when I've tracked down facts, most of the US and almost all of the European enviro data is trustable - and, surprisingly - consistent with official oil sources like the US MMS (which, incidentally, supports peak oil predictions).

However, almost anything one reads from BC enviro groups either grossly distorts facts, or is so heavily loaded with spin, that one immediately thinks of PRAVDA.

The trouble with your opinion is first you say peak oil is not real. Then in defence of your flat earth theory you quote some source that supports peak oil. Then you slag BC enviro groups...what ever that is. Sounds like you have an issue with someone else too pal. Unlike yourself, I haven't stopped reading anything on the subject for over 20 years. Hello! Limits to growth! What's my name? Who's your daddy?

If you want to make a credible point on debunking peak oil, just give us your reference. I assume it's the same one calling climate change, junk science. Bring it!

NAFTA is doing exactly what it was intended, that
is to make rich and poor !