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Green, Sullivan Scrap Over Woodward's
Fate of the project at stake say Vancouver's mayoral candidates
Sam Sullivan is feeling great. Relaxing in his city hall office after a long council debate, he's still riding high on his stunning NPA nomination victory over Christy Clark.
"It almost killed me, I lost a lot of weight", he says between bites of chicken and feta pizza. "But as Nietzsche said, that which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
While discussing his chances of becoming Vancouver's next mayor, he can't resist a cheeky poke at his Vision Vancouver challenger.
"I think he should vote for me, to save his legacy," Sullivan says with a Cheshire cat grin. "I will be the one that delivers Jim Green as the hero of this era."
The legacy Sullivan speaks of is Woodward's, the massive market/social housing development project many are betting will help transform Vancouver's drug-strangled Downtown Eastside.
Both of Vancouver's mayoral candidates have staked political careers on policies for improving Canada's poorest neighbourhood. But if you want a taste on how they differ in approach, just raise the example of Woodward's.
Sullivan portrays himself as the cool headed voice of fiscal restraint. Green says Sullivan would bungle, maybe even kill, a bold project carefully assembled.
COPE's priority project
First established at Hastings and Abbott in 1903, Woodward's department store closed in 1993, with homeless squatters occupying the vacant building and demanding social housing.
In March 2001, the province purchased the building for $22 million, intending to develop over 200 co-operative housing units, with a large commercial space and SFU's School for Contemporary Arts.
But the project couldn't get off the ground and was shelved by the new BC Liberal government in early 2002.
In March 2003, Vancouver's COPE lead city council purchased Woodward's from the province for roughly $5 million. Green, who'd been part of the previous redevelopment attempt, would get another chance to steer Woodward's to success.
Woodward's became the current council's priority project, complete with special guiding principles, in order to catalyze revitalization in Gastown, Chinatown, and the DTES.
Combining 500 market condos and 200 social housing units with commercial and retail space, plus city owned space for non-profit groups, along with SFU's new School for Contemporary Arts, the project is ambitiously big and diverse.
The right balance?
Yet some have questioned the wisdom of putting more social housing in a neighborhood with such high drug addiction rates, thinking that those with drug problems would be better to escape the enabling factor of a concentrated addict community.
At times, Sullivan and his NPA colleague Peter Ladner have argued the planned ratio of social housing in the area should at least be reduced to tip the scales and infuse the neighborhood with higher incomes, thus boosting the whole community's fortunes.
But another area developer, Robert Fung of The Salient Group, says drugs have nothing to do with low-income housing.
Having 200 social housing units in Woodward's is no liability, "I think it adds strength," says Fung, who is also a director of the Laurier Institution, a non-profit organization which fosters debate on the economic impacts/benefits of cross-cultural diversity.
"Woodward's is not a force of change itself; it is another component in the change already happening in the area. We have already seen some balancing out (of market housing) there," Fung says.
Fung believes Vancouver's mixed income development is the leading model of urban planning in North America, with the city now getting global attention for its functional diversity.
"Developing any single thing creates a problem. If it's just low income housing, it can't support retailers in the area. Just high income makes ghettoes for the wealthy, and the exclusion leads to more imbalance."
"In terms of having 200 social units with 500 market units, I don't have a single fear at all," Fung concludes.
And the man with arguably the most riding on Woodward's has equal confidence.
"I think this project is as close to a dream as we could possibly get," says Green, reached on his cell phone en route to a council meeting. "It has the power to transform downtown Vancouver by creating economic development, services, employment, and housing. I can't think of another project like this in the world."
$13 million over
Lately, Sullivan has found ammunition for criticism in Woodward's budget overruns of about $30 million, largely due to rising construction costs and doubling of social housing units from the original plan of 100 to 200. The city's portion of overrun costs is about $13 million, and Sullivan thinks it could have been avoided.
"I've always said that Woodward's could be this council's shining glorious legacy; or it could be its fast ferry," says Sullivan, before returning to council chambers after his dinner break. "They (COPE) have taken a lot of risk for the public on this. I never believed government should take business risks."
He also questions whether Vancouver's hot condo market will continue to absorb new buildings until the Woodward's 2009 finish date, and says council has saddled developer Westbank Projects/Peterson Investment Group with tight profit margins plus too much social baggage and risk.
"I hope the market works for Woodward's," he says with a smile, pausing and raising an eyebrow. "But, ironically, if it doesn't, it could catalyze the opposite, disastrous unintended effect in the neighborhood."
Yet, even with all his cold shower sentiments for Woodward's, Sullivan says, as mayor, he would support it.
"Am I happy the public has lost money? Am I happy my mic was cut off six times while I was asking questions about it in council? Am I happy it's gone up to $280 million? No, but I will support it because council has made the decision. I compare it to the Olympics. The new council should respect the previous achievements of the last council."
Sullivan's second guesses
But Green isn't buying Sullivan's new attitude.
"He voted against every aspect of it," says Green, audibly seething with exasperation. "He voted against SFU, daycare, social housing, 500 market units, retail, and employment. Now he says he supports it? That's not how it works, people care about your record."
And although costs for the project have increased, Green claims the city is shielded from risk by their part of the deal, and the developer can easily handle its end.
"Ian Gillespie would not be onboard if he didn't have absolute certainty of success for Westbank in this project," Green affirms. "We had ten developers who wanted to be involved. W e didn't shove this down anyone's throat."
With about a month before city elections, Green argues Woodward's success hinges on certainty and speed of execution, suggesting Sullivan will unravel the project if he wins the mayor's seat.
"He asked city staff if he could get a (NPA) majority in council, can he kill it (Woodward's)." Green says. "Everyone is on side and this doesn't need to be picked apart for political reasons."
But Sullivan says he's being unfairly portrayed as an opponent of Woodward's, when he's really just looking to keep costs in check.
"I asked if we (NPA) got a majority what could we do to revise it. And they (city staff) told me three things," Sullivan countered.
One of those possible revisions would be cutting back social housing, another is reducing the amount of commercial space, and the third is capitalizing a portion of the city owned space, which is being offered to non-profit groups.
But Sullivan says he no longer favours cutting social housing after listening to city staff's recommendations.
"I've lightened up on that. They said we wouldn't really save money after putting the housing elsewhere anyway. So, I've pretty much given up on everything except reducing the city's space (for non-profits) by a third."
Hot button issue
Now, with campaign rhetoric for the Nov. 19 election in high gear, both mayoral candidates are suggesting the other could doom Woodward's if given the chance.
Sullivan calls Green a reckless spender who can't manage development, and Green says Sullivan is a misguided flip-flopper with no understanding of urban planning.
"He (Green) lacks the good sense that tax dollars come from hard working people who want to see value for money, and he loses phenomenal amounts of money quickly," Sullivan said, pointing to Green's role in the previous Woodward's development attempt and the Four Corners Community Savings Bank.
Green counters that Four Corners, a community bank he started for low-income earners in the DTES, actually fulfilled its objectives and was on the verge of turning around when a new provincial government canned it.
"If he (Sullivan) says the city is at risk for Woodward's and I'm running things into the ground, do you call that (my) attracting $250 million in investment downtown? "He is misguided and illogical and in many ways covering up," Green says. "Look, I don't want to be negative, but his judgment is not something I'd support."
Stay tuned; the mudslinging is just beginning.
Sam Cooper is on staff of The Tyee. ![]()



16
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Yammer
6 years ago
Comments on "Green, Sullivan Scrap Over Woodward's"
The comparison to fast ferries is not as cutting as Sullivan thinks. What I remember of FF is that R&D costs were massive and that they created huge wakes when run at full power. That was the negative side. The positive side is that it revitalized Vancouver's shipbuilding industry and resulted in a high-quality watercraft which could have gone into production for markets around the world. Instead, the cynical Liberals spiked the project, creating a bigger-than-necessary financial bloodbath in order to make the NDP look bad.
It may be that Woodwards is going to be a horrendously expensive proposition, but, come on. It could also be the most ambitious refurbishment project in the country. It represents a true bridge between the high- and low-income forces in the DTES and will bring a major lift to the retail sector that has been grimly gutting it out on Hastings for some decades.
If Sullivan had the strength of his convictions and was truly conservative on this issue, he would take the position that it is simply too big of an experiment. But now he wants to be credited for supporting it?
Sam Salmon
6 years ago
Just me
6 years ago
For five years I lived at The Edge, which mixed market and social housing (CORE, an artists' co-op) in the Downtown Eastside. Both camps had seats on the same strata council, although it was weighted 6-1 in favour of the condo owners. I was a working stiff who bought a market condo on the recommendation of a starving artist friend who lived in the co-op. For a year I served on strata.
Imagine my dismay when the place was rife with fantasy class warfare. Many in the co-op were envious or paranoid about the "rich" people living upstairs. Then when junkies broke into some suits many in the market housing thought the criminals were guests of the people downstairs.
However, because these problems had to be solved together, over time the two communites have achieved a balance, although it is fair to say they remain two communities. That said, the building facilitated friendships that crossed boundaries, even while in some ways it reinforced the sense of a divide.
Why tell you this? Because a mixed-use Woodwards is a very good idea. But the good idea isn't cheap housing. The good idea is putting diverse people and classes of people together, not to manufacture social accord but to give it a place to start.
Likely Sam Sullivan or Peter Ladner would not want to live at Woodwards. Many condo buyers just want 750 square feet and a parking spot in an ivory tower, but there are others who will pay to partake in rebuilding their city's social fabric.
But it's harder work than you might imagine. Getting Woodwards built will just be the start.
Grumpy
6 years ago
Fastferrys? Hell they both supported RAV and that project is now over 3, yes read it, 3 fastferry fiascos over its original budget! A pox on both their houses!
yarrow
6 years ago
What tedious mudslinging. Surely the boys have better things to be yelling about than things they agree on.
A remarkably sad part of the story is the twelve years Woodward's has largely been empty space suckin up resources qualifying it as a fast ferry already. I doubt it will inspire a "revitalization" all on its own. Back in 1993 it was an important grocery store in the neighbourhood.
Toilets are the issue of the day, not how much more will be wasted on Woodward's.
The neighbourhood has two public restrooms -- but I only know of one place to get a free shower -- the Carnegie. What about an intiative to expand community centres? shelters? social housing for people who want to move from the area? new grants for grass-roots groups?
The harm reduction model dominanting many civic politicians' views of the "problem" of the DTES has become an excuse for them not taking on poverty and addiction. What and how many different ways are candidates proposing to help people quit drugs? To train, find work, live?
Surely the current Salvation Army won't resent some competition.
So Sam, if instead of paying poor people to smoke crack, as I recently read you did, you offered them a way to get off and heal, please do tell the media.
dangrice.com
6 years ago
Whoa, where's the flame war? A Sullivan versus Green article, and half a day has gone by already.
What's the total cost to the city of this project anyways?
redrivergirl
6 years ago
Remember when Sam wanted our taxes to pay for the developer's bid process when they lost the bid!!!!
Sorry, if I'm going to get fleeced, let it at least be for SOME social benefit.
redrivergirl
6 years ago
Oh, to clarify...
I can't remember if it was a Woodsward bid, or another. Perhaps someone can remind me. I was so shocked I contacted city hall.
Sam is extremely pro big-business.
dangrice.com
6 years ago
I'm not sure Sam is as pro big business as as you would say. I wouldn't call him antibusiness either. He seems to go out of his way to reach out to a wide variety of society. With council, they're spending and decisions were all over the board, and I think we can at least respect that Sam was standing up for a certain part of Vancouver. The way slates work, its damn stupid, when you have 10 people elected, paid, to say the same thing.
It will be interesting to see how he runs his campaign, he's not a grandstander like other candidates, but also is a very good organizer.
redrivergirl
6 years ago
Sam IS pro-big business. I couldn't believe it when he demanded they receive money for their bid!
jesterjogger
6 years ago
Did anyone notice that the disgrace that is the province newspaper began it's sinister, corporate sponsored anti-green campaign last week.
The real smear fest has started now that the diabolical and ruthless christy clark was eliminated. Not that there was any doubt who the republicans were not going to back.
I hope Larry Campbell has been a pain in their ass the last few years. (Like when corporate champion gordo wanted to round up all the poor people in Stanley park and dispose of them)
verso
6 years ago
"He seems to go out of his way to reach out to a wide variety of society."
So I've heard.
Working Person
6 years ago
and resulted in a high-quality watercraft which could have gone into production for markets around the world.
Get your facts straight. The fast ferries were only useful in the sheltered waters they were designed to run on. Nobody wanted them, not tbe union, BC Ferries or Yarrows. All wanted to build two more Spirit boats. The NDP grossly mismanaged the economy and no socialist blather can mask that.
You have formed governments for 13 years in the last 104 years. All have been economic disasters. Perhaps you should ask yourselves this:
"Could it be something we have done?"
But no socialist outside Europe can ask that question. It is always somebody else's fault.
dangrice.com
6 years ago
The fast ferries are not bad boats, (althought the NDP arrogrance was not listening to experts, or needs, and trying to build their legacy along something that was to fail) and it is a shame that the Liberals couldn't actually sold them for a decent price. The Liberals seem to find buyers for everything else in the province, but why are they only willing to work to sell Social Credit projects and not NDP ones???
ROBBINS Sce Research
6 years ago
It would seem that even there have been cost overruns, the city is still ahead owing to the fact that they apparently bought is ($5 million) cheaply from the provincial government.
If $13 million has since been spent by the city, than this is $18 million. It would seem that this might be the reason both candidates for Mayor can afford to back this.
I understand that the general taxpayer still had to pay the government's end, and it would seem Mr. Green is taking another crack at this, but I believe in the context of this article this is about Woodward's now, at this point in time during an election.
It is a little sad that a winter ago when the Sally Anne requested $120,000 for social housing to keep the poor in from the cold, Campbell gave them $20,000
cortezthekiller
6 years ago
No amount of socialst bashing will change the fact that more and more voters are wising up to the fact that right wing political parties like the BC Libs, the CPC the NPA are all birds of a feather and their stock is going downhill faster than Ben "my daddy stole billions" Mulroney's chances of following in his father's footsteps.
Sam "I wish I had just run for council cause I just figured out I'm toast" Sullivan will pay a price for leading the battle against wards..an initiative that would have made ethnic voters feel they could participate in city politics with stronger representation.
They have Sam "even though my manager's a rabid Republican hack...I'm not like that" Sullivan to thank for torpedoeing their hopes.
Not to worry Sam..the NPA will take care of you no matter what...just like they did Philip Owen.