Poisonous labour relations at Telus, or formerly BC Tel, are nothing new. Despite a takeover by Alberta interest, Telus remains BC Tel in its labour relations climate and publicitiy.

A quick example is cable splicing. That was the constant complaint of BC Tel in the 1970s whenever there was a strike. The company was always claiming that there was a huge amount of vandalism being done to the equipment and that is was their workers, if not the union as an organization, that were responsible for the destruction. Today, the very same complaint is being made. And, just as in the 1970s, the company was forever complaining that managers were being harassed and intimidated and threatened and their own personal property, such as their cars, being vandalized by violent strikers. Today, the same story line is being told and is being used to justify blocking access to a TWU website.

Another thing that never changes is the imbecile politics. Again, back in the 1970s a strike would produce calls for strong action by the BC Government against all these cable-splicing, manager-threatening unionists. But as everyone knows, this company is under federal jurisdiction in terms of its business operations and its labour relations. They fall under the Canada Labour Relations Code, not any BC provincial statute. That hasn't stopped the mighty minds at the BC Business Council, including President Gerry Lampert, from taking the occaision of this strike to demand that provisions in the BC Labour Code which bar the use of replacment workers be eliminated. Lampert know that this strike is completely unrelated to provincial jurisdiction, but relying on public and press ignorance he can use the occaission to make some business based populist demands.

Telus is a dinosaur.

I can attest to the "slamming" approach that Telus takes. I have periodically received calls from what I now know as a Telus telemarketers - telling me that I can save money on my phone bill by switching plans and options.

In the end, it turns out I was signed up for a whole whack of phone services I didn't even know I had - when all I wanted was voicemail and call display. It wasn't until I went to move, that I found out all that I've been paying for these past 3 or 4 years (they only print the service package title on the phone bill, but don't list the individual services it contains).

The upshot is, they weren't saving me money - I had been signed up for services I don't use and didn't know I had, costing me more in the process.

I did a comparison between Telus and Sprint Canada (which is owned by Rogers now, and uses existing Telus infrastructure), and found I can get better service at about half the cost. For $19.95 you get free unlimited, anytime calling, to anywhere in North America. For less than $5 more a month, you get an 800 number so that family and friends anywhere in North America can call you at no cost to them - and no long distance charge to you outside the $5 monthly fee.

I can save a minimum of $40 a month with Sprint Canada, and am in the process of switching - at least for the duration of the strike.

This is not the same company since the merger and the encroachment of their Albertan-American management policies, which show nothing but contempt for customers and employees alike. I should send the bastards a bill for all the extra money I paid.

So....you'll go back to Telus after the Strike? Why? Half the cost and you hold them in contempt, I don't understand.

Don't forget when this "Telus Idol party" was going on , the CEO Darrin Entwhistle witnessed that whole thing and did and said noting as these women were humiliated by a bunch of drunk upper managment pigs. If these "judges" were union members they would have had their asses fired so fast your head would spin.
(A Shania Twain look-alike sings a song to the tune of Up!, with lyrics about increasing shareholder value. A member of the judging panel tells her:

“I’m up. I’m up big time. You know that thing called the CN Tower? It’s right here in my pants.

“If I buy stock, would that be insider trading? Speaking of inside, do those pants come off?”

Another male judge suggests the Shania look-alike would go further in the competition if she had breast implants. The comment is greeted with shrieks, laughter and boos. There are ***** jokes and the observation that a female contestant has “amazing lungs.”)

Hey maamoot. Try getting a sense of humour. Go unions go!!!!!

Maybe management resembles Attilla the Hun. Since they're not a monopoly anymore, it's great we don't have to do business with them if we don't want to.

Too bad the union doesn't realize that. The example of reconfiguring the Dell computers is a textbook example of union featherbedding, the kind that used to happen at Pacific Press until the printers guild was smashed by technology. Clearly they still wish we were in the 1970's, when any cost and any raise for the union would simply get passed on to the ratepayers.

Since that can't happen anymore, seems like everyone needs an attitude adjustment, not just the stupid managers who participated in the video.

Just as a side note, I was at a party about a year ago and this one pissed guy comes up to me telling me about all the girls he's had etc. We get around to talking about our jobs and he goes on to brag that he is
an executive at Telus and makes 95K per year and only works about 20 hrs a week. He said he was getting pissed before he went on his 6 week paid leave to Europe. What a clown. He kind of looked like Brian
Mulroney, I'm not kidding, perfect resemblance.

yea, switching to Sprint by the way

Sounds like that sleazy telus exec. will fit right in the gordon campbell new era. A lazy, corrupt, parasitic, morally bankrupt overpaid scumbag who contributes nothing! Don't be supriseed if this guy ends up in the bc liberal cabinet or, if he's a u.s. citizen, somewhere high up in the republican party.
Hey falcon, neufeld, coleman and abbott - I'd watch my back if I were you.

p.s.- by the way falcon, nice work on that bc rail deal. Now that theres no fish left in the Cheakamus you're buddy neufeld can jam some IPP in there. Enjoy the blow and hookers up in whistler boys!!!

Hey BC Rail, don't get me started, they said they cannot get to the rail car filled with toxic affluent until Thursday. Excuse me, it's in the F*** water now , I suggest you move the car yesterday. How the Mess in Alberta, the citizens off squamish and Edmonton should start a class action and go for an injunction to stop rail service until every drop is cleaned up and area residents compensated. Hey, Gordo, thanks for CN Rail , already paying off.

nemesis, regarding "Hey maamoot. Try getting a sense of humour. Go unions go!!!!!"

Nemesis, usually I would agree with you , I don't go for 99% of this pc bs, but I ask you to watch the video and then come back and tell me what you think. I thought it was the usual no sense of humour crap as per usual.
Then I saw the video, and I guarantee you that if it was your wife or daughter , up on stage , singing and dancing, in front of a few hundred people and having 3 drunk assholes (Senior Managers by the way) telling your daughter to get a tit job, telling your wife how good she looks on all fours, I'm sure you would be pretty pissed. These women were treated like they were crack whores, I'm not talking about someone not being able to take a joke.
Do a search for Telus Idol video and then tell us what you think.

Well hell, where's the link to the video? I for one would need to view this purported social travesty before I could rightly comment..lol

"Excuse me, it's in the F*** water now"

Actually, the rail car in question never went in the water, while the caustic soda DID leak out of the car and into the river.

A little accuracy goes a long way.

it's the future as the alberta labour culture takes over and klein teaches campbell how to "throw the bum a dime".

gotta respond to Martin here: sure technology is pushing so some Dell guy making $6 an hour in the USA can do the job of a TWU member. And some guy in India can do it for $1 an hour, another in China for 50 cents an hour.
The TWU guy can afford to buy the goods and services YOU sell, and pays taxes to YOUR government. If you're not fighting against this 'misuse of technolgy' your for it. Are you going to claim that some good comes of it?
I used to work for them, now I'm glad I run my own business. But you know what? Every union job lost is a customer lost in my books, because the people that 'replaced' them just don't earn enough to count!

Pretty much sums up our sad society, doesn't it? I've had that conversation so many times with friends- the telecommunications exec who makes four times what we do, yet contributes NOTHING to society. Our value system is garbage, and it isn't getting better anytime soon. Wish I had been there, Stuart, to meet that guy- I love arguing with and shredding losers like him.

ok, I can't stand it any longer...this whole thing about telus employees reinstalling the operating system on boxes delivered by Dell is an absolute disgrace of misinformation. Drew Mcarther knows very well what happens. We receive boxes from Dell with a particular hardware configuration, but there is a lot of Telus specific software to be added and a great deal of configuration settings must be adjusted to be compliant with the Telus standard. This work would take several hours for someone to do on each machine. To save much time and money on doing this and doing repairs in the future a single machine is carefully configured with the telus standard software and configuration settings and an image is made. That image is then installed on all of the new boxes in about 25min per box. The image is then also used to fix boxes that have been damaged beyond simple configuration fixes in the future. So yes, a Telus employee does reformat and install windows again, after Dell has done it. Is it all about TWU demands that are stupid and useless? No! It is all about quickly and efficiently installing additional software and making a standard that can be quickly repaired in the future. Drew knows this very well and is basically lying about why it is done....

Maamoot; Having trouble finding the video but will continue to try. My apologies if I came across too harshly.

Clubofrome"....So....you'll go back to Telus after the Strike? Why? Half the cost and you hold them in contempt, I don't understand."

Hah, you pathetic slimely piece of telus management crap. You are being paid, what? 75$ and hr to write this crap for the Telus scumbags?

You have already made yourself known as a paid Telus plant on forums on voices-for-change.com , which you already tried to silence with your illegal censorship. Why don't you just crawl back under the rock you came from.... or maybe you could just get up on stage and do a little "Telus Idol" dance for us?

You have to love 21st century labour/management warfare. Not only does it take place within the workplace but throughout the internet as well. 5 years without a contract. Look up the word Obstinate Jackass, and there's the board of Telus' pictures right there. What McArthur leaves out is the numerous times that Telus was found guilty by the Canadian Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) of unfair labour practices and bargaining in bad faith.

On the flipside, there hasn't been any shots fired...yet. Other than verbal jabs back and forth. It's funny that Entwhistle didn't take his own human resources policy to heart when he came on board at Telus and "Fit In or F#ck Off." If he had, I don't think the parties would be where they are right now.

RabidCow, I highly doubt the person you are referring to is being paid anything to write their crap. There's a tonne of people in this world who think they way that person does, who'll do it for free, as part of some twisted Ideology that Unions are evil, while corporations are good. I have a question though? Are you allowed to take pictures of the scabs as they cross the picket line? After reading some of the stuff on Voices for Change from people gleefully crossing the line, I was reminded what my father told me when I was a kid.

If he ever caught me crossing a picket line, he'd break both my legs. Old time trade unionist, and as the saying goes... like father... like son. Sometimes I sit and wish for the old days when people stood up and fought for and were admired for doing so, what they believed in, and for a better lot in life.

God I hate TELUS, such a miserable phone company, try to contact them to solve a problem - forget it, they don't want to know. For the past 2 years I have been getting phantom phone calls (phone rings but dead when picked up) and phantom fax. Tried to call and complain but to no avail!

As soon as I get high speed internet from Delta Cable, I'm going to toss my land line for good! Mind you I hate Rogers even more, there is another good ol' Canadian company that doesn't give a damn about its customers.

As for the CN fiasco/derailment on the Checkumus, CN loaded the frieght wrong, instead of putting loaded cars on the rear going up the grade, they put them behind the loco's - BC Rail knew better! Oh yes - hey Gordo, with gas approaching $1.15 a litre, maybe CN will start a passenger service from Vancouver to Whistler, and Prince George.

"Since that can't happen anymore, seems like everyone needs an attitude adjustment, not just the stupid managers who participated in the video."

It wasn't 'managers', it was the Executive of Telus!

Get it right...These are the 'creme de la creme' of the company. Supposedly...

I'm sure the woman didn't need to hear her boobs weren't big enough to win, or Darren was 'engorged' about Jill whats-her-faces performance...

To tommymoore:

The link is: http://savefile.com/files.php?fid=8068566

The original is 245MB. May be low quality...

This is a totall lack of stupidity on part for TELUS execs. When these new computers show up at TELUS they only have windows installed on it. Installing all the customised TELUS software one by one will take atleast 4-5 hrs. What our BU members do is they create an image on one computer which takes them 4-5 hrs and than it only takes 10-15 mintues to load the same image on all the other computers. What I don't understand is why TELUS management brings this issue up again and again. This just makes them look stupid (no that they are any smarted). Infact one of the 2S guys actually sent email to Darren once after Darren made this comment in an AGM. And after about 2 months of research which included Darren-Barry Baptie- and almost everynone in T&O, Managemnet acknowleged to the tech that they don't know what they were talking about.

This was posted by member01 on VFC

http://savefile.com/files.php?fid=8068566
this download works perfectly....the original file is in mpg format this file is zipped and it's in avi format... the overal video quality remains the same.

[url="http://www.torrentspy.com/search.asp?mode=torrentdetails&"]http://www.torrentspy.com/search.asp?mode=torrentdetails&[/url]

;id=365838&query=telus%20idol

that's the link to get the file, when you're there click the "Download Torrent" button.

[url="http://azureus.sourceforge.net/"]http://azureus.sourceforge.net/[/url]

you need a bittorrent client in order to get the file - try azureus, it's pretty good

whoops here is the link again:
http://torrentspy.com/search.asp?mode=torrentdetails&id=365838&query=telus%20idol

or just go to http://www.torrentspy.com/ and do a search for "telus idol"

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=telus%20idol
has a small and large version of the telus idol video Enjoy

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=telus%20idol

does not work, it says:
The item is not available due to issues with the item's content.

hmmm.. the long are or Telus strikes again.
torrentspy and savefile links both work though...

oops,
the long arm of telus strikes again

Thanks for the links, but hey - big fricken deal - a buncha drunks critique another buncha drunks giving dismal performances. Scumbags in suits, what tf else is new? Shades of Gordo's gang there. Degrading? Maybe. Sadly lacking in any redeeming qualities. Possibly. Abusive? Only to the livers of the participants.
A caveat for those using BIT TORRENT: your ISP can and will choose to throttle back your bandwidth and can dynamically determine torrent clients, based on the unusually high upload volume inherent in this file sharing method.

Grumpy, those phantom calls and faxes are stoppable, but you have to take the action yourself. It happened to me.

I was getting one or two calls a day and the line was always dead when I tried to answer.

I *69'd after one call and got the number calling me.

I tried to call, but the line had a block on it stopping contact.

Angered, I called Telus and was told by a pleasant operator there was nothing I could do other than to contact Telus coporate affairs in Calgary, which I did.

Unfortunately, I must have called on a really bad day because I got the run-around of run-arounds.

A vice-president of something or other informed me if I wanted to stop the calls I could simply purchase a Telus sevice blocking those calls.

Sounded like the old "protection" racket where the neighbourhood tough says you won't get your windows broken if you buy my insurance.

I pointed this out to the non-too-friendly Telus exec. who obviously thought I was being flippant or haughty or maybe just a union member.

She advised me that companies pay Telus good money for the ability to use their computer operated call services over a Telus line.

I reminded her I am a Telus customer and I don't like Telus allowing other clients to milk or bother its rewsidential clients.

If I didn't like the situation, I could either buy Telus protection or call the RCMP to file a complaint, I was told.

RCMP are about as anxious to assist on such complaints as they are in answering questions about their role in the disappearance of Canadian citizens in US custody.

I was curtly told to come to police headquarters and file a written complaint. Ya, sure.

Next step, I e-mailed the CRTC's Vancouver office, which Telus didn't even mention was an option for me.

Within minutes I had a response and assurance from the CRTC that I didn't have to put up with such corporate harassment.

The phone calls stopped for a few days, but then resumed. A second e-mailed complaint then brought more long term relief and eventually prompted someone, (I suspect it was my Telus exec. VP in Calgary), to call me and offer a long verbal and contrite apology as directed by the CRTC.

In short Grumpy, those irritating phone calls are harassment and a criminal act if the company calling or the company supplying the phone line service do not halt the calls when a complaint it filed.

With a handle like Grumpy, I do expect you know how to make yourself popular with some people, so turn on the charm, tell the CRTC you are "as mad as hell and aren't going to take it any more."

You don't have to.

The CRTC is great! Their website is easy to use and should be used to hold these sleazy media and communication companies to account.
For instance, shameless bc liberal shill canwest goebell tv (formerly bctv) ran a brutal one-sided, slanderous story to discredit a female mla after she dared to speak out against imperious dictator emperor gordocus minimus intellectualus. (i.e. our beloved caligula) I was sickened by this mis-use of power and complained thru the CRTC website and some executive from canwest had to respond to me in person!! The 10 minutes he had to use up to write that letter cost a him a coerced subordinate bl*wj*b that he can never get back.

I feel it is important to recognize the hypocracy in the whole Telus Idol fiasco.

1-Darren Entwistle demands respect for himself and his ELT, at the same time his cutie-pie VP is slithering around the stage at his feet.

2-Every Telus employee is required to take an e-Ethics course yearly. Failure to comply could result in termination.

3-Drew McArthur is quote as saying that all involved have been disciplined and Telus is working with the TWU to have respectful workplace workshops for all employees. Does that make sense? The whole ELT including the CEO we're disciplined, as well the it should be the ELT that needs the workshop.
As well, this was an out of court settlement... at a very expensive price.. a waste of shareholders money to cover up more bad judgement by the CEO and his ELT.

As a shareholder, I'd be very nervous.

RabidCow: My comments were meant for Krispy, who said he would switch, temporarily, to Sprint for the duration of the strike. My question was, and still is, why switch back period, since he holds Telus in such contempt.

Now what's your excuse? Your false accusations can only be a reflection of your own development. Retarded. What retards development? Perhaps you have a learning disability, or you really do have BSE, or perhaps an industrial accident has left you with disabilities. If not, then why don't you and kegler just apologize for your errors.

What this world needs is more people like me who have an open mind and are willing to learn, and thus change. You have obviously read nothing I have posted here, so both of your comments are way out of line.

On the other hand if you are just looking for an old fashioned fuc* you contest, I'm your man.

ClubofRome

Actually jesterjogger, complaints should go directly to the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council CBSC, this is an arm of the CRTC that handles public complaints. So if a Redneck Radio(CKNW or affiliates) plays something that you feel is an untruth or misleading , racist etc. Just shoot of an email. They have to respond within 30 days. My letter was signed off on by 3 managers and , get this , their corporate lawyer. So this at least
cost them a $ 100 bucks for the lawyer to sing off.

Once the station gets your complaint from CBSC they have 30 days to respond. If your not happy with the stations response you can appeal and have a hearing. Hey , awesome more cost. Imagine if 1000's did this daily.

It's fun and easy. http://www.cbsc.ca/english/faqs/index.htm

Stuart
I just added that link you provided to my favorites.
Merci!

I know a manager with Telus and he is laughing all the way to the bank from this strike. You think your hurting Telus managment, when you actually making all them much, much , much richer. IF the Telus employees hate the managment so much the first thing they should do is get back to work.

That guy making 90,000 is now making 400,000.

Why is it OK for union members to get 10 weeks vacation but bad for a manager to get 6 weeks?

It's funny how the union takes no blame what so ever in this strike. The telus union is one of the most militant and unflexable unions in this province. This could have been settled along time ago but lets face the union doesn't want to change and the company is not going to crack to hardball union tactics. They are ready to stay out for years with the managment making millions. Is the union prepared to go without income for years? What happnes when their members are going broke? The mangers certainly don't mind tripling and quadrupaling their salary for a few years.

This kind of reminds me of the hockey strike. There is no way for the union to win.

By the way that manager has close family in the union as well so he gets to hear the propaganda spread by the union first hand and he says it's really quite funny and amusing. He was quite concerned about the disinformation that was being spread though. Even the union member knew a bunch of BS was being spread.

And good job Stuart lets try and flood the CRTC with bogus and fradulant complaints. I would expect nothing less from you.

"And good job Stuart lets try and flood the CRTC with bogus and fradulant complaints. I would expect nothing less from you."

LOL, Jim , I know you hate effective people who act to make things better. I know your type, riding along
in rush hour traffic in your ford 350 with CKNW cranked getting off on Peter Warren or Bill Good, I know
those who reject this kind of red neck radio upset up. I know you like to go on union rants and get excited about
how much managers make at Telus, the fact that your taking shots at me makes me very happy. If I know I'm
on your bad side I must be doing something right.

Do you really feel the news is unbiased, do you feel a convicted premiere with DWI charges and the raid on the ledge with allegations of money laundering and organized crime deserved less coverage than a porch Reno. Bye the way it was just
surfaced that both Telus and CKNW are both big liberal party donors. Surprised were not getting fair coverage.

Basically Jim, Telus is getting a black eye over this, the workers at Telus have built the company and can take it apart.
Imagine 13000 plus switching services and encouraging say 10 friends and family to do so. Telus has made record profits the last 2 quarters and cannot convince the public that the workers don't deserve to share in their success. What's up with you, do you feel large corporation have a responsibility to share or be greedy and shaft its workers.

Any way I notice you didn't criticize this article and the way these women got treated, says allot about your character.
Hey Jimmy, theirs a fire in my pants, get your old lady up their for some dirty dancing.

I am looking for altenatives, we have two land lines a fax line three cells and I use telus online service when I am on the road. Tme to move on. And JIm do you really listen to bill good that would explain your view points. You should get out a little have a look around see what is really going on in this province.

Telus is a dark ages employer. Who can blame the workers for wanting to protect their job security. It seems that every company is getting back to their 'core services' - just another name for contracting out union work to non-union labour.
Reducing wages does nothing for the ecomony. How can a worker whose wages have been cut continue to pay taxes and consume goods at the same level?
It's true that Telus is not the same as the old B.C. Tel. Alas, Sprint is also known as a very poor employer - they have a worse record than Telus.

jim your comment on Telus manager's getting rich rich rich.
Lets not forget who will profit most from their greed. That will be the TAXMAN. As most of the scab employees are pension collecting retired managers, they have to claim this income on top of their huge pensions. I am glad they will be contributing to the tax system. The $8.00 and hour employees out there could use the extra money to collect subsidies because they do not make enough money to feed and house themselves.

Lets not forget how those managers got to being paid their high wages. It was the unionized workers who fought for a decent standard of living for all. The managers had to get more money than he worker, so they always benefited from a stirke where wages were the issues.
The Telus issue has more to do with keeping jobs in BC and not moving the owrk outside the province. BC TEL employeed a large number of taxpayers. As the work moves outside of BC, so do those tax dollars. Soon the liberials leaders will be out of a job too cause who will want to lead a province of the working poor

Jim, I have to wonder - do you always believe everything you hear? So if your 'manager' friend tells you that his sad sap union family members are being fed a load of BS, you take it as gospel. I've always felt the truth can be found somewhere in the middle. Don't think your manager buddy isn't being fed a daily dose of BS too. Last time I looked, Entwistle, McArthur and the rest of the "tent in the pants" guys were only preaching the "Gospel according to Darin".

My list of "Parasitic Skills" just keeps getting longer and longer. I wonder where the
Telus elite fit in.
I have:
Politicians
Clergy
Brokers
Advertisers
Lawyers
Bureaucrats
Spin-Doctors

Welcome, most valuable player B.C. Supreme Court Justice Grant Burnyear, to Telus's "team-building" union-busting, bottom-feeding Party of freeloaders.

Article headline today:

Telus union faces more restrictions

Rockyvoids, what do you do for a living? That's probably the stupidest thing I've read on this forum yet. Congratulations! Let's get rid of all those jobs. Then ask yourself, "And then what?"

Politician = Lester Pearson
Clergy = Dalai Lama
Broker = OK, I'll give ya that ;-)
Advertisers = consumer information
Bureacrats = make the world work (mostly)
Spin-doctors = Bye, bye Greenpeace, so long Amnesty International.

You gotta take the bad with the good and do what you can. Blanket solutions are suffocating.

Stump: Stupid is as stupid does...
You don't see the big picture according to ecology which says, species are now dissappearing at unprecidented rates. Net loss of species will lead to ecological failure. That failure means we lose our life support system. Extinction of our species is the probable result. Did you have something important to add to this conversation? Parasites are part of nature too, just like us. Some human endeavors can be viewed as parasitic as they feed off a healthly host intil it's no longer economically viable. While human endeavors have also been described as cancerous, I think parasitic is also accurate. Try to keep current Stumpy....

Try to say something that's not self-evident clubofrome.

Sorry, I see that's your department. Doh! I did it again...
I was just trying to point out that your logic is flawed... Damn! I'm afraid I can't comply with your request. Sorry....

Unless you work at TELUS, you have no idea what you're talking about so maybe you all could keep your comments to yourselves. I am an extremely proud bargaining unit TELUS employee. I have worked for a lot of companies in my life and TELUS is by far the best. It's too bad those in the TWU just want to tear it apart. I'm working because if the TWU gets everything they want, the company will have to layoff a lot of us off just to be able to compete and since I haven't been here a real long time, I'll be one of the first out the door. I'd be crazy to support something like that. This is one of those situations where some people are just never happy. Hopefully they're all out on the picket line and will have to find other jobs because they can't pay their bills. Then the only people left will be the ones who are here now, the ones who want to be here and know a great thing when they see it. I can't wait for that day!!! Morale is at an all-time and I love it!!!

"Then the only people left will be the ones who are here now, the ones who want to be here and know a great thing when they see it. I can't wait for that day!!! Morale is at an all-time and I love it!!!"

And when the union is busted, you'll be gone too.

Are you competing for the Tyee dumbass award too? You've got a great shot at it.

Sponge: as in sucking on host, parasitic, freeloading. May appear as a scab-like growth on the sea bottom.

Sponge: How apt!

sponge89
You are an obvious plant from Telus. Youe carefully chosen language doesn't sound natural, it sounds like a "communications expert" trying to sound like a peon. Right down to the artfully dropped word as in "Morale is an an all-time **** and I love it!!!"
I'd say your message is an all-time low -- it is fake, fake fake! And you are a parasitic, freeloading, scab-like shill. Go back to the sea bottom.

Sponge89, you are one of those people that probably crosses the picket line on a consistent basis. Let me tell you something, the company cannot go on forever without its employees. Telus understands that since BC is booming, employees can get better jobs somewhere else. Shaw is making inroads and so is Bell and so is Rogers. I hope management warm up to this because if they lose all this good experience, they will falter as a company. Don't forget, a company is only as good as its employees, not just its management. Long-term, Telus will suffer. I think Entwistle should be fired for picking this fight and I won't be surprised if the Telus' Board of Directors fire him soon. I pray that this strike is settle quickly so employees can return to work and resume taking care of themselves and their families and their employer.
My two cents worth.
Chevy

msbonne, chevy,

Very perceptive.

I perceive, also, a sinister aspect to the sponge89 post. I think it so inflammatory as to be INTENDED to provoke violent confrontations and give Telus incidents that it feels it can win favor with from a friendly court.

I see sponge89 as a provocateur. Don't get sucked in.

Allow me, if you will, to reply to the scab who has the audacity to post about his or her "best job ever". I also work for Mobility and am aware that if you have been asking your previous customers if they would like ketchup with your fries, it probably IS the best job you have ever had! That doesn't make it a good job! You are not a bargaining unit employee - you are a scab! Get that straight too! You are what I will loosely refer to as a "person" calling yourself a TWU member but the few things that one could remotely consider a "benefit" to your job, came about because of people who were unwilling to sacrifice their values to corporate greed. Is it okay that you get 6 minutes to serve each customer while touting "good customer service" to the public? Is it okay with you that you are propped up to take chit for a company that favors the rich in every one of their policies and only responds if a client threatens to cancel their service? Are you okay with a company that penalizes a rep a percentage of variable pay for every client who cancels their service due to poor business practices by Telus? Are you fine with seeing your brothers and sisters dragged into managerial reprimand meetings for being sick? Will you be fine if the company demands mandatory overtime from you at the expense of your family and personal life? If Telus gets their way, you will NOT have a job because they will all be outsourced! Give yer head a friggin' shake!!! And when we come in from the rain, it will be our turn to watch as you are fined all the extra money you have made while the rest of us stand our ground not only for us but for valueless creeps like you! Telus is and will remain a closed Union shop - how are you gonna work there when you have no Union card??? The scabs who cross our lines will be fired.. It is illegal for Telus to pay your fines and you might want to think about how it's going to feel to work alongside those of us who sacrificed during this time so that YOUR job could remain! Don't talk to me about everyone laughing in there! I work an escalated unit and people hate Telus!! The executive should be shot and pissed on for that stupid video they used client dollars to pay for! And as for you SCAB.. your time in the rain is coming.. Or maybe, you can be the subject of their next video titled "Telus Reject"... Shame on you!!!!

Afterthought to Sponge... Upon re-reading your post, I note you say you have not been able to keep a job in your life.. i.e. "I have worked for a lot of companies in my life" and further, that you "haven't been here a real long time". If other employers were intelligent enough to get rid of someone of your obvious density, it won't be too long before Telus gets rid of you too! You can't win this one! If Entwhistle busts our Union, you will be replaced by some one in the Phillipines. If he doesn't bust our Union, the Union has the right to fine you for scabbing and pull your card. You don't even seem to realize that if the company wins this one, they will be pulling billions of dollars out of the Canadian economy!! And IF you're a Telus "plant" for the forums that have been created for honest people to express their views, I hope you'll get fitted for the prosthetic nose you are gonna have to buy when the one you have shoved up the Company's butt, rots and falls off your face! Without people like you, the Company would HAVE TO be reasonable and fair! Do you sleep at night Scab???

To the pro-telus fellow maybe you should move to Squamish as it is fast becoming a model town for the gordon campbell "golden decade".
First all of the long-time blue collar residents who actually build the town were brutally stabbed in the back by bc liberal policies themselves the result of corporate lobbying and party donations. (Interfor-gone, BC Rail-gone, HEU-gone etc.) Then a pro-gordo council rubberstamped rapid gentrification projects to replace the last vestiges of working people with members of the corporate elite. Add several thousand land rovers, beemers, overpriced condo's and matching stepford wives and you have a "new era" executives wet dream. All that's left is for the private-for-profit security comany to round up the last of the undesirables and there you have it- a model community for the 21rst century!!

Obviously Sponge is a misguided Albertan as I used to be. Perhaps if we explain to him the errors in his logic with out the name calling he may take a moment to reflect on his opinion. Pro union does not mean you are on the side of God. I think maybe we all mistakenly assume a marriage between labour and human rights. Or labour and ecology, some of the comments I read do no reflect marriage but separation. I believe the strength of the labour movement and humanists in general lies in the ability to organize and be the gel for our fight for human rights. To expose corporate greed, and the corruption of democray and capitalism. To try and offer solutions for our common good. Not just the member of the local TWU or whatever union you may belong to. We understand that government will not plan for the future, corporations are maximizing profits now for the next quarterly report. Who speaks and plans for your children? Time to step up to the plate. A union of unions. One goal, one world, one race...... somekinda warm fuzzy mantra and then build a new manifesto based on living in harmony with nature. Please have that rough draft on my desk by Monday!

Happy Friday!

Hey. STUMP, heh, heh.
Pearson gave us Trudeau and the rag.
The Dalai Lama is more Philosopher King
than a Clergyman and Spin-doctors are
liars all, no exceptions.

Whenever someone tells me Madonna is a no-talent hack, I ask them where their music awards are.

Rocky:
Where's your Nobel Peace Prize?

Exactly.

Dumbass and Stupid. That's part of your critique method. Your methods are unsound. Why not share your opinion with out the "side dish" of toxins? Then perhaps you can be taken seriously. That is my personal reform strategy because I'm also prone to lashing out on comments I see as utterly pointless or misguided. But it is fun to have an edge and stir the pot on occaision. So Stump where's your Diploma. Maybe you're still on the yellow brick road searching for Emerald City.

Just got this. Veeeery interesting.

I was a Telus manager for five years, as my initial post indicated. Not from day 1 did I ever see eye to eye with the management style at Telus. If anyone was to try and somehow blame the union for the morale and mess that now exists at this company, they'd be sadly mistaken. Do they have a part in the blame? Absolutely. Is it all their fault? Not by a long shot.

Darren Entwistle (whom I did occasionally have some interaction with) is a brute. One of his prime directives has always been to bust the TWU or at least the strength of their contract. Jeebus is a manager, but I have never sensed any direct experience with TWU positions. If I am wrong, then sorry.

What a lot of managers don't understand is what it's like to be a union member in certain kinds of roles at Telus. I do. My wife lives it every day. Craft people, like I&R, at least have the face-to-face interaction with customers and a certain amount of freedom on the road. I doubt very much Jeebus has worked in one of the Telus call centres. To have every single movement of your day monitored, (in some cases) very inexperienced managers coaching everything you do (because they want to meet their own targets and not because they actually know what they're talking about) and mountains of double-talk from the ELT about being on a team while you watch the actual behaviour of senior leadership. You only realize how bad it is, when you go to another company that does know something about how to treat its employees.

Can you honestly blame the union for finding distasteful, a company who removes the first day of sick time, removes the right to file grievances, kills every joint union/mgmt committee, blocks the booking of any new vacation, stops the taking of accumulated time off .... but all the while claiming that they are putting employees first. As a manager, Jeebus would seem to know nothing about being on the working end of that.

Let's not even start about what's happening on the picket lines. I'm sure there are lots of stupid examples of TWU shenanigans, but I've seen several examples of managers coming out to the picket lines and baiting TWU members.

Don't forget SS, Drew Macarthur says that since efficiencies will be put back into the economy and those outsourced out of a job will land somewhere, no one's really losing their jobs. Huh?

Does the company stop and think for one minute how utterly impossible it will be to build any kind of morale after this thing is all said and done? Mind you, once this deal is done Darren will likely land an EVP position at some big US corporation and leave the mess in his wake. This deal is the only thing stopping that.

Telus Idol anyone?

I will post a book review seperately. Although a U.S. publication, its contents apply equally to Canadian workers.

As a union carpenter for many years I can attest to one of the U.S.'s foulest exports being its experts in union-busting.

I don't know whether that applies in this case. Canada has clearly been able to rear its own pathetic specimens.

Review - "Confessions of a Union-Buster" by Martin Levitt

"Union busting is a field populated by bullies and built on deceit. A campaign against a union is an assault on individuals and a war on the truth. As such, it is a war without honour. The only way to bust a union is to lie, distort, manipulate, threaten, and always, always attack. The law does not hamper the process, rather, it serves to suggest manoeuvres and define strategies. Each "union prevention" campaign, as the wars are called, turns on a combined strategy of disinformation and personal assaults."

When a chief executive hires a labor relations consultant to battle a union, he gives the consultant run of the company and closes his eyes. The consultant, backed by attorneys, installs himself in the corporate offices and goes to work creating a climate of terror that inevitably is blamed on the union.

Some corporate executives I encountered liked to think of their anti-union consultants as generals, but really the consultants are terrorists. Like political terrorists, the consultants' attacks are intensely personal. Terrorists do not make factories and air strips their victims; they choose, instead, crippled old men and school-children. Likewise, as the consultants go about the business of destroying unions, they invade people's lives, demolish their friendships, crush their will, and shatter their families."

For union busters, like Levitt, the NLRA is a "union buster's best friend".

According to Levitt, "in its complexity the nation's fundamental Labor law presents endless possibilities for delays, roadblocks, and manoeuvres that can undermine a union's efforts and frustrate would be members." The union buster's key strategy, when confronted with an election, is delay the ballot, thereby buying time to organise a so called counter campaign known as "Counter organising drives".

The two key targets of the "counter organising drives" are the rank-and-file worker and their immediate supervisors. Supervisors serve as the shock troops of the union buster - The union buster aims to create a climate where the supervisor feels personally threatened by the union - "I knew that people who didn't feel threatened wouldn't fight", Levitt confesses, "So through hours of seminars, rallies, and one-on-one encounters, I taught supervisors to despise and fear the union. I persuaded them that a union organising drive was a personal attack on them, a referendum on their leadership skills, and an attempt to humiliate them. I was friendly, even jovial at times, but always unforgiving as I compelled each supervisor to feel he was somehow to blame for the union push and, consequently, obliged to defeat it like any hostage - most supervisors could not resist for long. They came to see the fight through the eyes of their captor and went to work wringing union sympathies out of their workers".

Having turned the supervisor into an anti-union force, Levitt turned his attention to workers with union sympathies - what he termed "pushers". The strategy here was to personally discredit unionists. This required information. No means of obtaining information was ruled out. According to Levitt his team of union Busters "routinely pried into worker's police records, personnel files, credit histories, medical records, and family lives in search of a weakness that we could use to discredit union activists".

cont.

cont.

Where it was not possible to get "dirt" on a unionist, Levitt made it up. "To fell the sturdiest union supporters...I frequently launched rumours that the targeted worker was gay or was cheating on his wife. It was a very effective technique, particularly in blue-collar towns.

If the lies and rumours failed to muzzle union activists, the union buster resorted to sackings. These sackings are illegal under the NLRA. Section 8(a)(3) clearly outlaws discharging employees because they urged other employees to join a union. Nevertheless, union busters know that reinstatement procedures are complex, some dragging out for years after the incident. The aim of the union buster is to remove the union support, based in the crucial period, prior to the ballot.

Levitt's confessions not only highlight the defects of the US Labor relations framework, they also provide crucial insights into the important role supervisors play as opinion setters in workplaces. The lesson for unions seeking to organise the unionised workplace is - ignore the supervisor at your peril. Unions seeking to organise a workplace must ensure that supervisors are won over, or at worst, neutralised.

"Maybe you're still on the yellow brick road searching for Emerald City."

I certainly have more questions than answers.

I'm not going to pay idiotic comments any respect. I call 'em how I see 'em. And, I hope you'll call me out when I say something stupid. But, it'll keep ya busy!

I am wondering with all that is going on why there is very little about it in the media. Does Darren have a gag on that too? Something as big as this should be headline news. Some ppl I have talked to had no idea that workers were locked out of their jobs. Where is the media? The Tyee seems to be the most honest of all, and I had to be told of this paper. Cuz news media in B.C. is very hush hush. Very little or no coverage at all.

Many union groups are digging their own grave by going way too far with their demands. It doesn't take long to see it in action either. Two posties drove up to my house this morning to deliver a small package. On my way to work I saw four unionized municipal workers watching another dig a hole. The CUPE maintenance workers at my son's high school have been painting the outside doors since the first week of July, and I haven't even mentioned the ferry workers, the longshoremen, the teamsters etc. etc. etc..

Let me see, nemesis, according to you the people, who, are at the bottom of the earnings scale (and no matter how well paid the union members are, without a doubt they are the lowest paid group) of the "business" they are employed at are expecting way too much but the managers and CEO's and the business itself should and get ever increasing compensation? Man, I just shake my head at you ...I don't know where to begin with your statements....so I won't for now, I guess...I'm tired, after working all night maybe after some sleep the words will come....

Hey nemesis....not too bright are you? Pertaining to union workers you have seen lately. The posties? How do you know that perhaps the extra body was not being trained by the other. The municipal workers......how many can dig a hole at one time? It is their managers that appoint the work for them to do. Four guys all trying to dig a hole , would be a bit crowded wouldn't it? Your sons' school being painted.... are you sure that is all they are painting? As for the others you mentioned teamsters, longshoremen ferry workers etc....what about them?

Hard to believe that someone could be so detached from reality that they don't realize union workersare notorious for not being as productive as they could be. Suze; those two posties have been delivering small packages in my neighbourhood for the past year. That's some training regime, but maybe standard for a public sector union. The others I mentioned are no-brainers. Ask any school principal what the most difficult part of his job is and he'll tell you it's dealing with his cupe custodial staff.

nemesis..... I have been a union worker the better part of 30yrs. I have worked hard for my employer. However after all the years I have put in my employer has turned around and kicked me in the arse. The company wouldn't be where it is at today without the employees hard labour. Big Corporations are never satisfied...they want MORE! So why not ship jobs offshore to 3rd world countries? I mean.....cripes! That make's the execs feel like they have the power to RULE!
When people start to realize when jobs are shipped away the entire economy suffers. The country begins to slide...and the fat cat execs sit back and watch the nation crumble. Ahhhhhh...... Don't ya just love being a PROUD Canadian?
Nothing like feeling small in a Corporate World. Lord help our children. Cuz they are going to need all the help they can get to survive.

Nemesis, you should get out into the real world yourself, buddy, got some proof about the unions and members you're slandering? I think that if dealing with a janitor was the hardest part of a principals' day they'd be laughing, the longshoreman at the Vancouver Port are quite productive that port has an excellent reputation, WORLDWIDE, and the city workers in Vancouver pulled off the renovations of 12th Ave from Fraser to Naniamo giving the road back to the public almost a month earlier than estimated, the teamsters helped facilitate the interm agreement that got the independant owner operators of the container truckers back working, etc,etc...
So can you actually back up your attacks with facts or do you just want to continue your BS, blather,blather, dream world?

Oh, yeah, nemesis in my neighborhood when the postal truck comes around there's only one person in it; however they do use sub contractors at times, they, in my neighborhood, are an older couple trying to make ends meet.
No comments on why the workers are expecting far too much but the higher ups and company itself are justified?

Bravo Blonde Pitbull!

I work for the Telusmobility head office in Toronto. As you all know, BC and AB work load had been transfer to the east to Toronto and Montreal. As a union member without contract. (Company claimed that we are only contract employee not union member as yet. They need to do more study before we can get a union contract???) We were force to handle this transfer call by management even when we all know that it is illegal. (Sorry brother and sister in the west.)

Funny thing happened on Friday night. One of the marketing - manager that working in the AB call center as a replacement worker called into the Toronto office. He is almost in tear and crying for help. He was calling regarding sample voice mail issue and the client is very irate and he said that he has been on the phone with the client for over 30 minus and is not able to resolve the issue. With the wait time on the queue of another 40 minus, client has been on the phone for over an hour. Client is irate, I mean very IRATE. As he tried to transfer the call, I was checking out the team card to verify that I’m talking to a Telusmobility employee. After I had verified his manager status, I started to ask some simple trouble shooting questions. I come to realized that these so call managers have no idea how the system work and know idea what they are doing. (Someone might call us unskillful union worker, when we have to handle up to 20 computer applications at any given time. But that is beside the point.)

When I question his ability to handle the call he become irate and tried to dump the call. He tried to show off his manager tone of voice. I told him that since the AB call centre is now handling the union work. It will not be right for me to step in to resolve his issue. (He went speechless.) However, as a courtesy since he does not have the skill set and the knowledge to resolve the issue, I will speak to the client on his behalf. Voice mail error was handled within 2 minus and client is so happy that he gets to speak with someone that know how to handle network issue and want to speak to my manager and complain about the situation. I told the client that he just spoke to the manager 2 minus ago, the person that not able to help him was the manager. Client said that he can not wait for the union worker to go back to work and want the CEO and the manager to be fire.

By the way, my thanks to the brother and sister in the west for not signing the so call contract imposed by Telus. On their contract, if BC and AB agree on the term that the company had offer. Telusmobility employee in the east ( Clearnet union member) will be out of any contract talk for the next 5 years.(not until after 2010) including the 41/2 that past. We will be without any contract for over 10 years. So much for the company offer. Jobs will for sure go to the Philippine.

One more thing. With the CRTC rule. Telus have to handle client call within 20 second. Let me tell you how they do it. Manager in the west will answer the call as quick as they can, put client on hold for a few second and terminate the call or cold transfer or dump the call to the east. So much for customer service….. Just my 2 cents……

Thanks, Suze.
I thought a little sleep would help.
Nemesis, I'm waiting ...

Soooooo Nemisis:

Where are you? On vacation? Do you have at least 3 weeks holiday a year?.....poor baby. Do you have medical and dental at your job? Do you have a 37 1/2 hour work week? Do you have a lunch break and cofee breaks? And of course you probably have reaped the benefits of maternity or paternity leave, sick leave and disability......

You and your unorganized coworkers cannot claim to have put any of these things in place...you have been a pariah (for those of you who don't know the meaning of this word....it means leach).
Do you have a grievance committee? Have you or your co workers had the availability to file harrassment charges to an unfair co worker or manager?

Well, Nemisis or should I refer to you as Nim Rod.... you are the lucky recipient of the hard work of union workers past and present. I think you should get a grip and see what has actually been handed to you for your entire working career on the backs of those that have come before you. You are an ungrateful, misinformed piece of you know what.

Let's hear back from you in the future when you have no rights left in the work place. Open your eyes and your mind.....

Would love to hear back from you.

Actually Suze, I'd rather depend on hard work, perseverance and professionalism than Jim Sinclair and George Heyman. To each his own I guess. I've worked alongside public sector unionists many times. Guaranteed job security tends to make many of them complacent and lazy. I'll take an independent anytime when hiring for my business.

And yes Blonde, I do expect to make more than my workers, since I'm the one who took all the risk when starting this company, and I'm the one who has often worked 12-16 hour days to keep it afloat, and they may not even have a job if I didn't sign their paycheques. No one guaranteed my anything. I also expect my managers to make more than my labourers, since they have also proven that they deserved to be moved up the ladder. But I forgot, socialists don't believe in ladders. Too hierarchial, not enough equality, fight the man and blah blah blah blah blah.

I am an ex senior VP at TELUS.

TELUS is a company which has achieved significant improvements in its fiscal health, its market image and in achieving its business objectives. There are many excellent employees in the executive, management and union ranks. In most settings it is immaterial whether an employee is in management or the union because they are employees of TELUS first.

There are business fundamentals which can not be ignored in a competitive market environment. 1) Customers have a choice. 2) If the company does well it grows, if it grows it offers job security. 3) Valuable employees are worth more, value is judged by earning per employee.

I am a passionate believer in unions, they make sense; they offer a balance, ensure employees are treated fairly and have a voice in decisions being made that affect them. Progressive unions are partners in the success of the business because by making the business successful they achieve the objectives of the union and the employees they represent.

The TWU does none of these things; the leadership are ill-equipped to engage a sophisticated changing company in a competitive environment. They are remote from running a business, having never had this responsibility. They are remote from TELUS having not been involved in any proactive and positive conversations with management in the last decade. They are remote from their real members having not truly been successful integrating Alberta, Ontario and Quebec into their membership. Even in BC there are large contingents of the silent majority who shake their heads at the antics of the union.

For 5 years this union has resolutely stuck to contract wording which predates common usage of the internet, of mobile phones, of broadband and of VoIP in the market. Their only objective is to stop change. Their strategy of taking the members on strike has to be the most stupid tactic it was possible to choose; how is it possible to stop change while you are outside the building? – you have no voice.

The very jobs and practices which the union are trying protect are now being done by management personnel because of this decision. Many of these jobs and practices are inefficient and serve no point in the current world. The management community are finding this out. These jobs will not be there to come back to.

The union strategies of urging customers to switch from TELUS, urging its members to work for the competition and to buy Bell cell phones was clearly written by an idiot or someone who represented TELUS’s competition (The TWU does represent the members of TELUS’s competition). It is insane to damage the revenue stream which pays you; every dollar of lost represents a percentage of a lost job.

The market and competitive environment has changed, the company management has had to change and the union needs to change if it is going to be relevant.
The TWU has taken its members on to the street but it has no strategy and no methodology to get them back to work. There isn’t any dialogue or rapport with the company and they are outside the building. The sky is not falling down and as time goes by they wither, shrink up and die on the sidewalk.

They are still not telling their members the whole truth; the offer TELUS gave the TWU nearly two years ago has just been implemented. The day before it was implemented the union took the members out on strike, they were not locked out as they alledged. They started this campaign with a lie, a lie to the employees and a lie to the market; they are still forcing their members to wear this lie around their necks on placards.

As the members face missing their second pay-check the TELUS proposal still has not been offered for vote to the members. Many of the membership, still, have not read it and they stand to lose huge amounts of lump payment money if it isn’t ratified shortly.

For all of the comments and slander I have read about Darren Entwistle he is not a man to have his mind changed by any behaviour which the union could exert. To understand why you must know the man; I do.

He is a man who has a rod of iron through his belief and integrity system. He believes that the offer is fair, generous and respectful. It balances the needs of the business with recognizing the employees need for well paid employment security. (Not job security; some jobs should be outsourced because TELUS does not do them well or economically)

I was at the TELUS Idol in Montreal about 2 years ago, it was a tacky and embarrassing display but harmless. The two mock contestants who were singing were slightly out of tune and the whole thing was done as a light hearted way but inappropriate things were said. It was the “entertainment” after dinner and optional, there were few union employees invited to attend the conference.

The TWU have had this video for over eighteen months, they grieved it when they got it, they even sent it to the TELUS board. The issue was dealt with inline with TELUS’s very stringent HR guidelines at that time. The timing of the union’s press release is purely a reflection of a sad union leadership bereft of any idea what to do next or how to get their membership back to work.

There are no winners in strikes. This union went on strike because they ran out of ideas but there is no indication they have ever contemplated how to get back to work. In Alberta more than 55% of the union membership is working in Toronto and Quebec almost 100%. This is a small regional skirmish with a large multi-national company which has infinite options to achieve it objectives.

The only chance for union membership to be included in the future of the business is to be off the streets and engaged in the strategy of the business.

nemesis, nice sideways slide. I never said that all were not entitled to be well rewarded. When all is said and done you did not take all the risks when starting out anyone who worked for you took their chances as well they had no guarantees either that you could pull in the customer base to create the cash to pay them. Care to discuss how many people have been screwed by the little business person for their pay?
They need you to sign their paycheques or they might not have a job? Try not signing the paycheques and see how many employees or managers you have left. People don't work for the "glory" they work for cash.
Anyways this is all irrelevant considering that you are comparing apples to oranges.You were not slandering little people of little businesses who rarely are unionized.You were slandering the workers of large employers who pull in mega dollars. The owners are usually shareholders and many managers have little actual "working man" experience or knowledge.
In conclusion, I'll share a dirty little secret with you unions can and usually are a b*tch to work in but they end up in a employee/employer situation where the ownership/managerial are a**h*les. They are the lessor of two evils, in most cases.

Blackadder

My question is why are you an ex senior VP if Telus is so good to their management?
Are you one of the drunken judger in the Telus idol?
I suppose the reason why you know Darren Entwistle, because he is not a man to have his mind change and get you’re a** out of the company? Ex senior VP of Telus…….

So much for these questions, I believed that I will never get any answer any!!!!!!

Regarding the locked out. (Strike, so you say.) The day before it was implemented the union took the members out on strike, because if they would go to work on Friday July 22.2005. Which mean they have agree on the contract that was IMPLEMENTED by the company NOT NEGOISTATED & VOTED by the union and the union member. Union member did not go to work to make a statement and got lock out by the company. On the same day, Telusmobility in the East worker was call to a manager meeting regarding the situation. The current senior VP sent out email to the floor business as usual. Until today, Telusmobility east work (Toronto, Montreal and Barrie) still have not received a copy of the contract offer. The reason for that is on the contract that was offer to BC and AB. Telusmobility east member is not included. Not only that. We will be excluded to any form of contract for the next 5 years. Not until 2010. All of that was not communicated to the member in the east. All the union information was black out by the company for the past 41/2 year. Not only workers in the east are the spare tire for the company in time of strike. We also will be the first one to go once the dispute is over

My question again is:
Why Telus black out all communication regarding union issue to the employee in the east.
Why Telus give away east employee contract talk right to the hand of the employee in the west.
Is Telus trying to create conflict between east and west member and divide the voice in the union?

When Darren said that he will cut 100 million from payroll. Did he mention that he will collect 6.6 million as his yearly bonus? And then another 6 million + for George crop. And another 4.3 million to the CFO…total of more that 16+% of the cut back go to their pocket cash in the bank. Is that how they figure less is more????

Now that you are EX VP. Sorry for not able to collect this cut back bonus….it hurt!!!

My 2 cents.

Blackadder

By the way as you were saying:

In Alberta more than 55% of the union membership is working in Toronto and Quebec almost 100%.

I do not know about the Alberta situation. I’d received call from the AB call centre and they are all managers. (It is easy to tell. They do not know how all computer application is operate and how the system work. And they always create error in the system and call the east for help.)

And as for Ontario and Quebec. You are right, 100% are at work and was force to handle the west transfer call. Otherwise, we get our *** fire. As I mention before on July 22. 2005. We were in the company meeting and was told that business as usual and door will be open for us to come to work. (Now I understand when they said that door will be open. Because it is legally a lock out not strike.) And we have the right to support the union and not handle the calls from the west. However, right after the meeting, director call all the manager to his office and said that all manager have to monitor call, if any of us found to refuse to handle the west call, we will be fire. Management is so 2 face and it is not even funny. We are force to handle the west call for now.

We support the union 100%. Once we know how the union is going to handle the east dispute will the company, action will be follow.

What makes you think that 55% of unionized employees are back to work in AB?

Yes, that's what the company wants everyone to believe, and that's what Darren expected. Unfortunately for him, AB is much stronger than they thought... There is a reason telus is bribing it's employees with bonuses, ipods, lunches, dinners and clothing. Employees didn't receive stuff like that before the lockout, so why now?

Don't believe everything you hear, especially when it's from a corporate bully like telus.

Hey Blackadder, was your position outsourced? Or did you leave because of your conscious ? Did Darren give you a great big package and boot your butt? Did he ask you back to work along side the others scabby bas****s?

Black Adder... You win the prize for the most sizable amount of pure hogwash I have read since the LOCKOUT began! Congratulations!!

As a senior VP for Telus, you would not be privy to the communications the Union has with its members. For you to comment on the nature of the relationship the Union has with its members is entirely beyond the scope of your knowledge!

TELUS did not achieve the significant improvements in its fiscal health.. the employees who have professionally and loyally served this company achieved that fiscal health for Telus.. often at the expense of their own "fiscal health". It's marketing image is one that 13,000 bargaining unit employees spend their days trying to improve because Telus fails to live up to its marketing image in so many ways, it's almost ridiculous to comment. Of course, when the executive visits and dons headsets to listen in to our warm & fuzzy welcome calls, instead of sitting on the inbound queue where the real action is, I can understand why you would be dense as to the public's very poor perception of their marketing practices!

The TWU IS a business Sir... It has revenue and expenses with a budget just as Telus does! Need I say more???

You call Telus a "sophisticated changing company"... Telus is a reactive, apathetic company who waits for all of its competitors to make reasonable offers to the consumers before it will counter with a reasonable offer. Telus, as a monopoly, has been gouging the Canadian public for years! I remember as a young woman having to pay hundreds of dollars each month to "reach out and touch someone"! At this point, they are still trying to retain their massive slice of the pie while cutting the throats of the people who slave to bake it!!!

You speak of Darren Entwhistle as being worthy of respect for his resolve to bust the Union and you tout your personal relationship with him as though it is something to be proud of. He packed 6.1 million into his own pockets last year knowing that the bargaining unit had not had a raise in 4 and 1/2 years!!! The man has a rock where his conscience should be and you very well know it!

I was amused at your polishing of the facts concerning the Telus Idol embarrassment. For any group of so-called professionals to make public sexual comments to colleagues has long been the basis for many human rights cases! The people that were supposed to "professionally" represent the rest of us, were no more than a bunch of drunken perverts at a party who decided they could say and do as they pleased.

I think I have said enough to diminish a post that has only made you look ignorant. It is clear that your relationship with the elite has dissolved any kind of conscience you may have been given in all that you have written.

I gave you 10 precious minutes of my own life but you are unworthy of any of my energies going any further in your direction. I would be willing to bet you are just another guy trying to skew the public's perception with poppycock while you wrestle to find ways to justify your own lack of intelligence and unwillingness to face the facts.. just as they are...

Oh.. 2 minutes more... If 55% of the bargaining unit is back at work, how is it the Union has paid out 78% to those actively on the line and that figure doesn't even include bargaining unit members who are on vacation or disability!!!

Get your facts straight.. Unless you wish to prove that Entwhistle has a moron for a friend!

Cheers to you Silken.......u go girl!

Silken

78% = 100% BC on stike and 46% Alberta. Do the math.

Hey nemesis what's your company anyhow?
You seem to have a lot of time to spit venom on this website. I guess thats a priveledge earned from all that hard-work and risk you've taken upon your shoulders.
I can only imagine what an absolute pleasure it must be to be one you're lucky employee's!!!

Black Adder... Why don't you try "doing the math"??? Why don't you stop and figure out that the "integrity-ridden" Mr. Entwhistle took home $6,068,000 more than the average Telus employee in 2004??? How about if you apply your brain to the millions of dollars it will take out of the Canadian economy when our call centres are farmed out to the Phillipines and a fair percentage of our call centres are closed down. Can you even wrap your mind around that number??? How about you take a quick moment to figure out that the 228 million dollars in profits Telus experienced in the last quarter were generated by people taking home approximately $24,000 per year?

No Adder... YOU do the math!!! And then ask yourself and ask yourself what your good respectable friend is doing gathering up millions of dollars on the backs of people who haven't had a raise in 5 years???

I haven't heard anyone justify why ANYONE deserves to fill their pockets to overflowing while the staff in the front lines go hungry...

Adder... your arrogant elitism is showing... and it's not very attractive!!!

Silken

Silken

It is noteworthy that you would resort to aggressive bullying when your lies are revealed.

Many of the union members who worked with me have expressed the same concern regarding the baseless approach of this union. They are offended by the aggressive and ignorant approach to their situation; to the threats and the rules imposed on them by the union executives who are supposed to be their servants and working in their best interests.

This union is clueless, they do not know why they are out on the street, they do not know how they got there and they really do not know how to get their members back to work. The company is not in communication with them and yet they are prepared to play this debased heartless game with their members’ lives.

These are real people, with real families, with real concerns and with real bills. The union is playing God based upon dogma and the members will pay the real price. Their members’ jobs will not be there to go back to. The union knows this but continues to show utter disregard for the well-being of their members and their families.

This union has chosen the worst strategy possible to achieve its one objective; to stop change. It is impossible to achieve this from the sidewalk and the changes are happening in the business right now and the members are not included.

The sacrifices which need to be taken to accept the company offer are minuscule when viewed in the context of the losses the members are suffering and will continue to endure.

The union leadership carries responsibility to create a fruitful and productive relationship with management. To ensure the members are vital, valued and relevant for the future of the business, this union has turned it back on this responsibility, has disregarded this mandate and has sold it members down the river for outdated ideals from an industry which no longer exists.

TELUS is not a monopoly any more, customers have choice.

This will be on the conscience of the ill-educated thugs in the TWU leadership forever.

Black Adder,

Aggressive bullying?? Nice smokescreen Adder!!! You didn't comment on one element of my post and you call "the facts" which are incontrovertible and posted on many public forums, "aggressive bullying"? Of course you do... it's so much easier than answering the questions isn't it?

It is easy for you as an EX to say whatever you please with the anonymity you are currently hiding behind here... I sincerely doubt that union members are sharing their private thoughts with you Adder... You speak as though you have friends but I also doubt that in reality, that is the case... Union members aren't generally worthy of hanging out with the elite such as yourself and Entwhistle... We'd be mere ham sandwiches at your banquets and there isn't one of us who isn't aware of that fact!

The Union is VERY aware of the reasons why Telus is bringing its own company to its knees and so are the majority of the clients we serve... What other industry has to employ 13,000 just to field complaints about its products and policies designed to favor the elitists such as yourself??? I daresay, very few...

Telus decided to impose their own "agreement" on its employees. There was no "agreement" involved in their proposal and when they decided to IMPOSE the stinking thing, we all chose to walk away! The rulings in this matter have emphatically stated that this is a "lockout" and NOT a strike!! but I suppose you would like to argue with the courts now?

Yes, we are real families... real people.. and certainly we have suffered for the Company's refusal to bargain in good faith over the years. Telus has been found to be guilty of unfair labour practices thru these years and you very well know it...

As I see it both the Union and the Company have a responsibility to bargain in good faith. The Company has consistently refused and is, at this time, refusing the services of an arbitrator...

And you're right... Telus has lost its position as a monopoly! But those of us who were its constant victims through the years well remember the tremendous gouging we underwent to pad the pockets of the wealthy... And we aren't taking that crap any longer...

Welcome to the REAL world of REAL people Adder... Must be tough to live in it without a conscience hey???

Silken

The comments by blackadder are an example of what Telus employees having been listening to for years.

We keep getting fed from the propaganda machine; company good, union bad. It's really tirestome.

The onslaught by blackadder is just more of the same.

Or as the Canadian Industrial Relation Board put it, "these are insidious comments meant to undermine the union".

You can't believe someone you don't trust; and the trust is gone. Gone.

Why doesn't the company just agree to a special mediator if their postion is so righteous? Cuz it aint. Bullying workers into believing in the "cult" doesn't make for long term success in any company.

The place to talk is at the bargaining table -
just like the CIRB ordered.

I love here hearing comments about "propaganda machine" and "cult" when in reference to TELUS or any corporation. Have any of you ever sat and considered that the union is feeding you propaganda of it's own? And you've all obviously been indoctrinated into a cult with your same weak arguments on the issues that you've quite obviously never sat down, read, and understood for yourself.
But somehow union propaganda is better, true-er, right-er.
Sit and think about it....

If someone tells me that something is working, and I know its not, that's propaganda.

If someone tells me they're bargaining in good faith and the Canadian Industrial Relations Board says, otherwise, that's propaganda.

If someone says that I've never sat down, read, and understood for myself, that's propaganda.

Twisting the truth to avoid the truth is the problem here, no matter who does it, and IMO,
Telus is the worst offender.

There are many corporations that treat their employees well; be they union or non-union, and I salute them.

The attitudes expressed in the Telus Idol video display a mindset that is disrespecful of all employees; management or not.

It's not just union members who are offended by the company's propaganda.

Don't assume you know what I am.

We have ALL read the proposal Monster... Quite frankly, it sucks!!! There is no "propaganda" in the fact that Telus has purchased a company in the Phillipines and intends to outsource our jobs! There is no "propaganda" involved in the fact that we are entitled to our personal lives and should not have to work mandatory overtime as requested by our managers. There is no "propaganda" in Telus' attempt to set our Pension agreement outside of a potential collective agreement. Moreover, we have all been serving this company with professionalism and dedication to its objectives for some time now... You are obviously unaware of the "unfair labor practices" Telus has been found guilty of! It's interesting that a company can claim their interest in offering "quality customer service" and then slap a 6-minute limit on a rep's time with a client. It's interesting that in wireless, the company charges a termination liability charge to people who have contracted and then had the misfortune to die. It's even more interesting that the representatives are chastised for high after-call work if they actually care enough about a client to call them back to save the client having to call back and wait in the queue. It's interesting that the best rateplans and offers are made to the people who rack up their cell bills every month and the normal blue-collar workers get zilch! It's interesting that people suffering the effects of stress or ill-health are continuously called into "support" meetings and advised they are not suited for call centre work, despite the recommendations of their doctors. It's interesting that the entire policies developed by the Company are to pander to the rich! The proposal made directly to the employees gives Telus the right to move billions of dollars from the Canadian economy. It doesn't take being part of a cult to realize that what we were being offered was completely out of line with even normal Employee Standards!!!

Get it through your heads that those of us carrying the corporate welfare bums are fed up with their gestapo-like operations and when the dust settles, Telus will no longer be able to look away from it's "insidious business practices"...

Try NOT sitting on your brain Monster... It might work better!!!

Silken

Oooo...personal attacks. Why am I not surprised? I'm not surprised because all I am hearing is common union rhetoric with a hint desperation.

It just kills me that the union is claiming to be winning the good fight while TELUS is claiming the same. Well I'm afraid to report that you both can't be winning. And as an outsider looking in who absolutely does not understand the issues at hand I'm unsure who is winning. But my non-expert opinion is that the TWU is fighting a battle that they are ill-equipped to win. TELUS has the deeper pockets, higher priced lawyers, and more effective spin-doctors. The union executive has been made to look like a rag-tag bunch who would get eaten alive by a junior high student council.

When the union's main strategies are to scare off TELUS customers, intimdate on the picket lines, and bring very little attention to an irrelevant video - I am hardly filled with confidence in their abilities.

I am hardly anti-union. But this particular union looks like a joke to the rest of Canada. I dare say TELUS would never get away with these tactics if there was an effective union in place. If an automaker tried these tactics the CAW or the Teamsters would tear them apart and embarass them. Not the other way around.

Frankly I don't care who has the deeper pockets those kind of arguements inane.If Telus thinks that it can truely maintain its network and grow than they're delusional.A reliable source has listed the current trouble queue at upwards of 11,000 troubles which aren't being dealt with, how long do you think the public and business is going to put up the spin doctors platitudes before they start raise hell for this company.

Black Adder,

If this offer is so great as you and Darren would suggest why are the publications we recieve regarding this offer completely different than the wording in the offer they expect us to agree to.

I would point your attention to a published document called "Highlight of addendum to TELUS' offer as it applies to our Bargaining Unit Team Members in BC and Alberta" wherein it states under "Employment Security"

"... outsourcing certain job functions to third-party organizations that specialize in specific non-core areas will allow TELUS to benefit from economies of scale and achieve significant cost savings that could be reinvested in TELUS' core growth areas."

We have heard all along from Darren in various media forms that he feels it necessary to keep core functions in TELUS' operation under TELUS control and that to outsource that would be a mistake, I have to agree with Darren on that point.

However, never at any time has anyone bothered to define what Darren's version of core is.
What we are being asked to agree to in the contract offer is :

"The company will give notice in writing to the union before contracting out any work that has been historically done by the employees in the bargaining unit."

Now I'm not a labour lawyer, but as I interpret that statement I would be effectively giving away all forms of job security by agreeing to this imposed offer.

As I read the offer statement, the company is looking for the right to contract out 'every' job function.

Please tell me that my interpretations are in error and enlighten me in your truth.

Monster... The only people who actually care about the clients' satisfaction with their service are those of us in the bargaining unit... those of us who listen to our clients' distress.. those of us who find solutions to resolve that client's issues.. those of us who catch Hell everytime we take as much time to resolve the client's issues as is necessary... As a bargaining unit employee, I have consistently caught flak each month for taking too much time with the clients so don't even talk to me about Union members turning Telus clients away... It takes an exceedingly strong representative to continue to serve the clients according to the client's needs rather than according to the gestapo's dictates...

As for the deeper pockets of Telus... are you saying that our Union has not gouged us the same way as Telus has gouged both us and the public we serve? It's nice of you to make my points for me...

You are unfamiliar with the court system.. particularly a system where the courts have it within their jurisdiction to level any inconsistency between the Union's right to justice and Telus' right to plunder... If there is a disparity that negates the Union's right to equity, we can fix it!!! And as someone with 20 years in the legal biz, I can tell you... it has been done before!!! One little court application in Federal Court and evidence that our Union is being deprived of justice in any way and Telus will be paying for the entire action...

Picket lines have a history of not welcoming scabs... but the public gets kisses, waves and loud "thank yous" for every honk and every kind word... Go figger hey???

As for that "irrelevant" video.. I would say you just revealed how little you care about employee rights not to have to put up with sexually lewd comments from their employers. That video is a disgrace to any decent human being anywhere...

Guess that lets you out huh???

How about the fact that the more you spend with Telus dictates where you are palced in the queue when you call in. For all of those that need help this means, old lady having trouble with her phones calls in, she pays for basic phone nothing else. So she spends about $40 a month. She is placed in the queue in position 1 at this point as she was the first to call in. Now JohnnyGeek calls in, he has adsl and LD coverage, also has all the latest fetures and spends over $150 a month with Telus. He is now bumped to position 1 because he spends more money. Old Lady is now forced to wait, now more people call in and spend more money than Old Lady as well, so she keeps gettinjg bumped back in the queue. This is what was put into place at Telus, the more you spend the more we care.

One other point for any of you willing to answer, do you think Telus just chose to iIMPOSE this contract in the middle of July? No they did this because they knew that this is when the CIRB goes on vacation.

Why did Darren publicly accept biding arbitration and then fight as hard as possible to get it overturned? Accepting it publicly all the while knowing you are going to fight it is an example of an outright lie.

In regards to the Union not having any ability to get things done then answer me why does Telus feel the need to throw out the existing contract? It should have been easy to manipulate these people into seeing it Telus' way?

And why are we still hearing the same complaints which were told in the last strike(in the 80's for those who weren't born yet). Issues like contracting out language, yes this is the same issue they were complaining about back then. If they will not contract out core jobs, why are they not able to specify which types of jobs they want to contract out? The Union has been willing to negotiate these terms but Telus has not been able to come forward with the appropriate information.

Of course Darren and his cronies think job security is a thing of the past, when he is released he will get 13 million dollars for his severance. I get what 5 weeks salary for being with the company the same amount of time? Tell me where this makes sense, and don't use the business world, these are the same people who applauded Enron and their great business model.

The monster writes: TELUS has the deeper pockets, higher priced lawyers, and more effective spin-doctors. The union executive has been made to look like a rag-tag bunch who would get eaten alive by a junior high student council.

If these are the criteria for who wins the battle then the game is flawed. While the TWU may be handling things poorly in the media, it doesn't mean they are wrong. If you side with the corporation then you believe in profit taking on the backs of others, not just the members of the TWU. The stock prices are what's measured now. Nothing else matters. When that dog eat dog mentality prevails then you know that this world has gone terribly wrong. Do you think Telus thought of outsourcing jobs all by themselves? Hardly, what a bunch of sheep. This is the reason it's despicable, not the CEO or any one individual. I've stated before it's just the phone company, they're not the bad guys of this world. But they do mimic their behavior.
People must come first. We have no other choice than general strike at this time. I declare Friday September 2nd 2005, General Strike Day in Canada. Enjoy your four day weekend.

Silken, tell me how much money is in the TWU strike fund and I'll tell you whether or not your union has gouged you. At least you're getting some of that money back now. Well minus $250,000 which will be wasted on an ineffective and probably libelous radio campaign.

And more personal insults. I've come to expect nothing less from you. It is this type of defensiveness and unwillingness to respect another point of view that prevents the general non-unionized public from supporting your cause. There's no reason why we can't debate this like adults and agree to disagree without personal attacks.

clubofrome, I never said the game wasn't flawed. Never even said the TWU is wrong. And I certainly didn't say that I side with the corporation. I'm just trying to show anyone open-minded enough to listen that Joe Public thinks you're losing this battle miserably. Whatever the disputed percentage that is crossing the line in Alberta, it is still showing that solidarity is not 100% there. There's a crack in the foundation. And that is not the fault of the good people on the picket lines fighting for what they believe in. It is the fault of the union leadership who did not do their job of rallying ALL of the troops. Say what you want about those people having no spine. I don't believe that's true. I think it takes quite a strong spine to cross a picket line. And I think the reason they did cross was not necessarily an allegiance to TELUS or Darren Entwistle or even a pay day. I think it was a lack in confidence in the TWU Executive's ability to bring this to a close.

Monster... Why is it that neither you nor Black Adder cannot present an argument of substance? Instead of reasonably debating this issue, you continually excuse yourselves by saying that I am personally attacking you! That's a lovely smokescreen you are both holding up while you continue to slander the TWU? Neither one of you have bothered to address the facts of this issue!!!

There are always those that cross a picket line Monster... Always those, who like Entwhistle, love their money and are more than happy to see others make the requisite sacrifices while they continue to rake in the benefits.. The beauty of this scenario is that at least, we can now identify them... It isn't often we get to identify the conscienceless according to where they are standing!

You are expressing a point of view consistently that you have failed to substantiate with any kind of evidence. Do you wonder that I am unable to indicate any respect for it? Read up on the findings of the CIRB where Telus has consistently been found to be guilty of unfair labor practices and has deliberately flouted the labor laws in this country. You make statements such as the one concerning the "irrelevant" video and when I call you on it, you ignore it and use my "personal attack" as your way out of having to present a meaningful case!

You are obviously unable to support your views with any kind of evidence.

By the way Monster, you can't be libelous on a radio ad... Libel is written and slander is oral... And it isn't slander if it's provably true which every one of my statements are...

Spare me your groundless retorts... You are unable to support your views and I prefer to have this discussion with people who don't demand respect for unwarranted slander of our Union that cannot be supported in evidence.

Silken

Yes I would agree that the unions will lose ground but not so much by opinion but lack there of...apathy. The opinion of the public will not matter anyway as long as the shareholders keep value. Not sure if customer loyalty is for sale here. Most people would think the wages are fair, the benefits good, what's the problem? But most people get their information from TV or newspapers who lie. They are in bed together, corporations and the media have a positive feedback loop happening. The media sells advertising to the corpoations and the corportions sell us image and all the useless stuff that goes with that! Then they buy more advertising, so just who do you think will win the media battle here? I think the TWU has made some mistakes but they need their leaders to come through now and I don't see that happening. They should bend to win public perception. Ask for benefits that don't go directly into their own pockets, but into those where workers are paid pennies per day by our standards, somewhere on the other side of the ocean. Otherwise you just have a few million Canadians saying...jez I'd take that Telus job in a second!

Apparently you have not heard that ethical funds is reevaluating TELUS and in the near future is asking them to recind their offer and accept mediation. This will not go down well with the shareholders.

The word IS getting out that this is not about money. I was in the elevator yesterday with a senior and we were discussing the lockout. SHE made the comment that it wasn't about money but job security and she was disgusted with telus.

black adder wrote:..."the offer TELUS gave the TWU nearly two years ago has just been implemented"
It's only been implemented on those ppl who are scabbing.It's very doubtful that will be the final agreement since it was non-negotiated and not voted on.Nice try

Black Adder wrote:..."they are still forcing their members to wear this lie around their necks on placards."
Actually CIRB decision #1291 calls this a LOCKOUT.Also, telus gave written notice to the federal labor minister that they were proceeding with LOCKOUT measures.The members in BC are unable to enter any telus facilities and are therefore LOCKED OUT.

black adder wrote:"He is a man who has a rod of iron through his belief and integrity system,"
There's a laugh.There was no integerity shown in telus idol.There isn't any inteerity in coercing and threatening Union members to cross a picket line.Where was de's integrity during that shameful performance of his in Calgary where he marched his lil scabs outside hoping to cause a confrontation during a Union rally?

black adder wrote:" I was at the TELUS Idol in Montreal about 2 years ago, it was a tacky and embarrassing display but harmless.'
I'd call it disgusting and shameful.You think that judge in the video had an integrity saying his ***** was as big as the CN tower?BTW..de never once admonished anyone for their inappropriate behavior.At least not at the time.

black adder wrote:"The TWU have had this video for over eighteen months, they grieved it when they got it, they even sent it to the TELUS board"
Apparently the TWU was ready to let this issue die until Drew brought it up so don't go blaming the TWU.Besides it was Union members who got this out to the public.

black adder wrote:"This union went on strike because they ran out of ideas but there is no indication they have ever contemplated how to get back to work."
Sigh..it's a LOCK OUT and we decided to finally ACKNOWLEDGE that after telus tried to sucker us in to accepting the foffer by continuing to report to work.

black adder wrote:"In Alberta more than 55% of the union membership is working in Toronto and Quebec almost 100%"
Apparently that number is only 16% in Alberta.The ppl in the East have only begun to be represented by the TWU per the CIRB decision after Telus stonewalled the UNion and had to be forced to cough up the list of names.Once the locals are formed and member cards are signed it'll be a much different story.

Telus has totally polluted the work environment and seems bent on destroying it's own brand.I suspect de wants to be fired so he can collect his 2 year severance...$13mill and he'll trample on anything or anyone to get that.

I bet you wish you could be one of de's lil scabbies eh?

"I think the TWU has made some mistakes but they need their leaders to come through now and I don't see that happening."
I would agree with that comment and just out of curiosity - does anyone know how much the TWU leaders make?

Chimera; while the LOCKOUT is in place and we're off the job teh Union exec get picket pay like everyone else...$250/week.

Note:
Actually CIRB decision #1291 calls this a LOCKOUT.Also, telus gave written notice to the federal labor minister that they were proceeding with LOCKOUT measures.The members in BC are unable to enter any telus facilities and are therefore LOCKED OUT.

Telus has been a dinner topic the last few weeks and we have various family members who are members of different unions. My question is for the TWU members (and please forgive my ignorance) - was there a vote on the contract offered?

My thinking is that if there is a majority of people who turn it down, there might be more of a leg for the TWU to stand on. Public opinion may not change anything as clubofrome pointed out, but wouldn't it be worth something?

Chimera; no the Telus offer was never voted on and nor will it be.It's a non-negotiate Telus 'wish list'.To even vote on it puts our Union in jeopadry by making the offer the BOTTOM line for negotiations rather than the existing contract.That would force the TWU to negotiate UPWARDS.

The same strategy was used with the Bell dispute back east in 1999.The Union there got sucked in to voting on it and turned it down out of hand.Then Bell presented the same offer only slightly tweaked until a majority accepted it.It took 4 tries and the Bell employees lost a great deal.

Why should the TWU go to the expense of organizing a vote for a POS offer that was never negotiated with the Union that represents the employees?

I know voting on it sounds like democracy but it isn't.It's a trap that Telus would dearly love to spring on us.

So Silken, you want some substance!
Since Darren Entwistle’s compensation seems to be one of the main underpinnings of your bitterness (although for some of you I suspect it is more chronic than that) I thought I would try and enlighten you as it is clear that your focus on him has limited your overall view.
According to an independent survey done by the Globe and mail Globe Investor 2004 rankings on the top 100 Canadian public corporations the average CEO pay (not salary) for 2004 was $5.5M a jump of 57% over 2003. The average salary was $729K. Darren Entwistle ranked 38th out of 100 with a total 2004 pay of $6.5M including his salary of $900K. All in all a lot of money no doubt, but very average as compared to his peers.
A great many of the companies on this list are also have unions. Interesting to note that Jim Shaw received the second largest bonus ($6.3M) of anyone on the 100 person list. This is the very company you are urging people to take their business to and away from telus; your employer. This is also a company with a collective agreement in place that is substandard to the one being offered to you and it’s with your own TWU. Unbelievable.
What you will not see on the rankings or hear from the biased and bitter TWU hardliners is that the options exercised by Darren Entwistle were reinvested into telus stock because he is believes in the company. This is part of the public record. Also part of the public record is that among CEOs who cashed options in 2004, the average gain was $6.9-million, compared with $4.4-million in 2003. Darren Entwistle was below the average.

I strongly suggest that it may do you and your TWU leadership more good in the long run if you would take the time to look at the offer and do a similar comparison to your peers in unions in telecom and in general (unless this is not about a fair offer as is starting to become evident by your delusional rants). Then come back to this forum with facts to show how hard doneby you really are comparatively. Please look at all the metrics including job security, salary, total compensation, share purchase plans, benefits, etc. I challenge you to find that you are not among the top 5%. Darren’s not in the top 5%! Sadly I will never see that comparison come from you in any public forum. You’re too lazy to do the legwork and definitely not interested in what’s fair. For those TWU members that may read this and have been blindly listening to the bitter hardliners I strongly suggest that you start quickly thinking for yourself. Your misguided leadership is leading you down a very dark road.

DE is lining his pockets and will not be here longer than it takes him to break the union or the shareholders throw him out on his assets.

Why is Telus refusing binding arbitration? The TWU has welcomed it. Generally unions shy away from this action but because TELUS has repeatedly been charged and convicted of bargaining in bad faith, the TWU has been pushing for it. The offer is full of clauses which say at managers disgression. It says that no employee will directly lose their job but there is no protection against the company tranfering staff to another department then contracting out your former position. suddenly your new position has too many staff and because you have the least technical skills in the new department you are out the door. each clause contradicts the others. Take this contract to a lawyer and they would say you are NUTS to sign it. I don't really give a rats *** what Darren makes but what I see is him raping this company and tearing it apart. he will leave it and then we will have to take the scaps and build it up again.

Nowhere in the offer are the words "at the managers discretion" I challenge you to prove it. I doubt you have even read it. If you have you are misleading people on this forum by that statement. Have a look at the wording in the old agreement and in the Bell and Shaw agreement. They are less solid than what you have offered to you now. Raping the company give me a break do some comparisons and show the people where we stack up agianst telcos and cableos in north america. Back up your standard twu rhetoric.

It also seems to be a recurring theme that you would rather a 3rd party impose an agreement on you than telus. Remember a third party has no interest in you the employees as does the company contrary to the hardliners stance. When a 3rd party is engaged to determine what is fair, they will look to comparable agreements in the industry. When this is done you should be very nervous because the agreement in front of the TWU members right now is far superior to that which the same TWU negotiated with Shaw highlights of which include among other things:
• A 40 hour work week, not 37.5 as you have
• No employee share purchase plan
• Much weaker contracting out language than is in the telus offer

You should also check out Bells agreement with regards to contracting out language. What is on the table right now is far superior.
It should be interesting to note and I am sure any arbitrator would do so is that Qwest just agreed on a new contract that has them also working a 40 hour week with 8 hours of mandatory overtime if required. Again, same industry less favorable agreement than what is on the table for the twu
How is the twu leadership going to look if an arbitrator is appointed and you end up getting less than what is currently on the table now. Ask yourself why would a 3rd party award you more than what is the industry norm. Do you have some proof that you are better. I seriously doubt it. Better do your homework now. I can see you all running around claiming ignorance if/when some the current offer gets pulled back and more in line with the rest of the telecom industry.

In order to even remain a little on topic, the Telus Idol video is most certainly an embarassment for the company. If not for the sexist comments then for the cheesefest that it was. Trying to pull it into this labour dispute is a sure sign of desperation on the part of the union. Sexism and cheese have no relevance in this labour dispute. The TWU just saw it as a way to drag the Telus name through the mud and hope for public outcry. The media saw right through that. That is why hardly any large media outlets are reporting on it. It is not newsworthy. The attempt to make it newsworthy once again shows how juvenile the TWU leadership really is.

As far as I know this is not a TWU forum even though it has been hijacked as if it was such. I'm sure there is a link some where on a TWU related website inviting members to comment here. In any event, my opinions (educated or not) are just that - opinions. They are neither right or wrong.

I do not know or understand all of the issues at hand. Nor do I claim to. Black Adder may be a different story. What I am trying to portray to you are the views of an average Canadian who does not have a vested interest in this. The same average Canadian who you are reaching out to to boycott Telus services (one of your most prevalent strategies in this labour dispute). I am trying to tell you that in my humble opinion it is not going to work. You've tried it before. Didn't work then and it won't work now. But you're not caring to hear that. Maybe I will be proved wrong. I have no problem with that. Unlike yourself I have been wrong before.

Awwww Wwood... your charm is absolutely overwhelming.. So you think Darren should be earning more?? His pay is obscene.. Even our neurosurgeons are not earning nearly that and they are saving lives... Your numbers simply prove how grossly overpaid the corporate greedy are...

Telus offers itself as a "quality" company.. not shy to declare that they are "reactive" and have no intention of cutting costs to the public without being forced to... Where is the quality?

Since when is "industry standard" a reason for anything??? Does it honestly mean no one is capable of thinking "outside the box"?

We have told you time and time again that the TWU remains open to returning to the bargaining table with a mediator... I am sure the mediators will be aware of industry standards as they assist negotiations...

Did Shaw also buy a company in the Phillipines to outsource their work to? I wasn't aware that they had that intention or that purchase... Without being privy to their collective agreements (as I am sure you aren't either).. I can only comment on the piece of crap Entwhistle threw at the Telus employees.. And I have read it...

As for my being delusional, you are right... I only imagined there was a possibility of meeting up with some intelligent life form here.. Amazing what years in the sweat box can do to a good lady isn't it?

Aren't you supposed to be answering calls Wwood? Remember you aren't supposed to be cruising the net with calls waiting in the queue.. It's bad for your quality scores...

Silken

Go read that piece of crap yourself Shawn... You obviously haven't read it at all and are unworthy of response...

I am also an "average Canadian" Monster.. How do you come to be able to speak on behalf of the average Canadian??? I wasn't even aware of a public survey being conducted on this matter...

There is no attempt to "pull" the Telus Idol shame into the Union negotiations except to try to let the public have some "taste" of what the employees of Telus have been experiencing for some time. The TWU remained quiet about it while directly discussing the matter with the company. It was Telus themselves that exposed that bunch of fools...

And why separate out the evidence just because it is unpalatable for you to accept??? It appears in order to have Mr. or Mrs. Average Canadians views, you must attempt to avoid the facts. The average Canadian is far smarter than that.. Give them some credit why don't you?

You have no response to the facts. What kind of person are you really to have stayed in such a supposedly miserable place all these years when the grass according to you is so much greener elsewhere. Oh I get it you're one of the ones that has to have something to complain about all the time. "sweatbox", are you referring to your doublewide, certainly not the ergonomically designed work stations with lounge, pool table, tv's etc. not to mention all the standard benefits enjoyed now and under the offer. By the way i'm off shift. When I go back on I will be surrounded by people who are finally all on the same page. We don't have to worry about people like you intimidating us to less than we are capable of. Posting all the diparaging twu junk around the office. It's really very pleasant here and we are far more productive and having fun. Yes those word do go together.
Stay out for as long as you want. The return of those like you will never be long enough.

Silken. By any standards your expired agreement and the one that is now implimented put you and any other telus union employee miles ahead of the average canadian. Yet you appeal to the average cnadian for support in getting you more. Now who's greedy!

Jovial it seems you are looking for enlightenment and Silken continues to look for substance. Here’s some black and white.
There continues to be statements around telus being unwilling to tell people specifically what non-core jobs will be contracted out. If this misleading statement is coming from the TWU then it is more misinformation to the members. If it is ignorance then, I will try and enlighten you as per your request.
In the contracting out section of the offer it clearly states the following (page 37):
29.01 No regular employee will be laid off as a direct result of the company contracting out work that is normally and currently performed by bargaining unit employees. The Company further agrees that it will not contract out any bargaining unit work in the job classification and headquarters area where there are employees on lay-off who are capable of doing the work, providing the necessary tools and equipment are available.

There is a Letter of agreement (as is customary in BU agreements) entitled “Contracting Out” (page 140) as part of the offer which states:
A. Notice of intent to pursue Contracting out options for Specific non-core Functions

Given TELUS’s commitment to keeping employees aware of developments that impact them in a timely fashion, and without limiting the rights under article 29 of the Collective Agreement, this letter provides advance notice of the company’s intent during the term of the agreement to pursue contracting out options as an alternative to performing the work associated with the functions shown below with it’s own employees. Currently, approximately 375 employees work in these functions.
The functions are:
• Fleet Operations
• Supply Operations Functions
o Investment recovery group
o Warehouse and Internal Distribution
o Mail Operations
• Real Estate Functions
o Building Maintenance service and trades
• Travel Service
• Forms Control and Copy Administration
• AC Electrical Renovation/Maintenance
• Miscellaneous Equipment Repair Operations (printed circuit cards, voice and radio telephone sets, test equipment
• All Cable Cutting
• Telephone Booth Construction and repair
• Custom Manufacturing Shop Functions
• Coin Collecting and Counting

I would say that is a pretty specific list. I take it you have never seen this list or knew it existed or were you just hoping that your brothers and sisters and the public would believe that the company had not been specific? More false rhetoric from the TWU!

By the way in case you don’t know the language of the most recently expired contract, check out page 37 of your TWU (expired) agreement section (f) it states:
The Company agrees that it will not contract out work normally performed by employees within the bargaining unit if such contracting out would cause any employee in the bargaining unit to be terminated or laid off unless no present or laid-off employees are capable of doing the work.

Seems pretty similar to me.

Thank you for your posting of that very small portion of the proposed offer Shawn... Reading one small portion of any given legal contract is a dangerous place to go swimming if you haven't had swimming lessons. Every word is subject to ambiguity... Take for instance just one small portion of the following:

29.01 No regular employee will be laid off as a direct result of the company contracting out...

The use of the qualifier "as a DIRECT result" gives Telus the right to lay off people from an INDIRECT result...

Unless you are legally-trained, you would not notice all of the loopholes in that proposal carved out by the use of just such ambiguous language and ALL of the sections of the proposed agreement affect one another so reading one portion simply does not enlighten... Sorry but you will have to do better than that....

As for you Wwood... I am the kind of person who tries to make things better and doesn't run and hide up some executives butt at the expense of my colleagues. While the last few years at TM have been nightmarish to say the least, I was able to provide some wonderfully caring service to the clients I dealt with... I am the kind of person with a 92% save rate and a 98% quality score every month... I am the kind of person who stays to try to make things better... Now what kind of person are you Bigshot?

There is NO job anywhere on the planet that benefits from losing it's senior representatives... Are you suggesting that a person should have to quit their jobs because an employer is too greedy to be fair? Are you suggesting that everyone should just turn and run when they find that a company is just full of false advertising?

I would be proud to live in a mobile home with good people around me... I am sure that your nasty comments about people who live in mobiles will be well digested for the massive segment of the population who does live in them...

tsk, tsk... such swamp swimming there Wwood...

Laughingly,

Silken

And by the way Wwood... I take home $900 a paycheque every 2 weeks... You think that's a huge amount do you??? The only greed is the greed on the surface of the pond...

You're a hoot but nothing to be taken seriously!!!

It is pitiful to read the miserable and mean spirited sentiment gushing from Silken and her less bright colleagues. They seem to forget they are the ambassadors of their membership, allegedly elected by their membership, and responsible to their members.

In reality they are defined by the dogma and rhetoric which is the staple of those perverted through living in a world darkened by lies and incomplete truths which they rain down on their members.

Trying to get straight answers is impossible, instead you get is fear, uncertainty and doubt. The union leadership when faced with fact immediately revert to aggressive bullying, inferred threats and mindless attacks on subjects which are irrelevant to the issue at hand.

The issue is this union has taken employees on to the street for the wrong reason and they have no idea how to get them back to work.

The TWU is without a strategy; they acted without thinking about the human cost to their members and have no motivation to get their members back to work. Currently no dialogue with the company is occurring although the union has tried to lead the membership into believing it is. They are prepared to play this debased heartless game with their members’ lives in the name of dogma.

This union has chosen the worst possible strategy to achieve its one objective; to stop change. It is impossible to achieve this from the sidewalk and the changes are happening inside the business without them and the members are not included.

The only chance for union membership to be included in the future of the business is to be off the streets and engaged in the strategy of the business.

If the union is so sure they really have the support they claim they should put the offer to the entire membership. (Not like in the strike vote, this if you can remember that far back, which was limited to friends of the union)

Give the members a chance to vote on their offer and on their future.

29.01 No regular employee will be laid off as a direct result of the company contracting out work that is normally and currently performed by bargaining unit employees. The Company further agrees that it will not contract out any bargaining unit work in the job classification and headquarters area where there are employees on lay-off who are capable of doing the work, providing the necessary tools and equipment are available.

Sorry but I have lived through one office closure tactic already. They very nicely tell your worthless and offer you a position watching paint dry in upper Mongolia.

Why won't TELUS just define what the Core job functions are that they would like to keep to maintain operations?

What about putting a limitation on the amount of contractors working in any job classification?

Nowhere in the contract does it state that those job's you mentioned were the only ones TELUS would like to eliminate "during the contract", it only states that this is the first list.

As I see it the only real stumbling blocks out there aren't the contract that the company has proposed, its the language interpretations and wording that people have problems with.

TELUS is a great company with great products to consumers, they have a committed and caring workforced who is only concerned about their future within the organization.

Is commitment to your employees too much to ask?

Can yer crap Adder!!! You simply copy/pasted the ridiculous crap you spouted to begin with... Do you think REPETITION is support for your unwarranted slander???? As is the case with most elitists, you never do support your statements... All you did is just make your first few words different...

Sheesh!!!

Silken

Opinion - paragragh 1,2,4,6,7,8
Fact - paragraph 3 read your responses above
Fact - paragraph 5 point of record and news release
Plea for sense - paragraph 9

As usual your postings add nothing constuctive or positive and appear to be miserable and mean spirited gushing!

let the members vote they deserve this dignity.

Silken,
As the average canadian income is $24K you are probably well above that average taking into account your deductions aside from tax. Given your considerable legal expertise it would appear that it would be simple for you to make much more in the open market. Maybe you should give it a whirl. Hey that would really teach telus a lesson too. Trying to run the company without you and those like you whose backs the company was built on. Show them Silken. Please.
Oh by the way re your paranoia
around 'direct'/'indirect'(whatever) as it relates to contracting out and layoffs. Maybe you could remind us all as to wen the company last laid anyone off.

BY the way the contracting out language that you think is so insulting is the same as that in the IBEW ageement that was in effect in Alberta. When was the last layoff in Alberta?

Jovial,
With all due respect to someone who seems to be actually familiar with the offer. Core jobs are not going to prevent office closures. The fact that you have been through them proves that the old contract could not prevent inevitable consolidation. Certainly you are not suggesting that there be language that says "you get your job for life garaunteed wherever it is most convenient for you". That would not even apease Sliken anyway. The language in the offer is the best in the industry. Would it be nicer to have the above, sure. IS it reality, no way.

"Opinion - paragragh 1,2,4,6,7,8
Fact - paragraph 3 read your responses above
Fact - paragraph 5 point of record and news release
Plea for sense - paragraph 9

As usual your postings add nothing constuctive or positive and appear to be miserable and mean spirited gushing! "

There is nothing miserable and mean spirited about my 'gushing', I can see that its pointless to argue any points with you.

It would appear that there is no flexibility in your position, it's simply FIFO.

You have no intention of negotiating anything with any of us.

Hey Jovial why don't you leverage sliken's legal expertise and put together some wording that would be acceptable to you. Let's take a look at what you come up with. Take control. Be constructive. It might be good for your self esteem. Your leadership certainly doesn't appear to have any ideas.

to shawn123

If you read a bit further instead of just repeating what the company spews. On page 136 of the final offer it clearly states that these jobs are but the first and company is not limited by this list its just a start.

lol Seems to me they laid off 7500 not too long ago Wwood! Where were you??

Hey now Woody... I gotta tell ya.. that legal biz.. well.. they miss me... But hey, if this had never happened, I would not have been able to meet YOU... Me n the trailer trash agree... it's been a downright purdy pleasure fer sur...

I gota run now.. Mah goat needs milkin' and my chickens dun crapped all over the hen howse agin.. My word.. wut sum chickens won't do for mah attention...

lol..

Silken

The language in the offer is the 2nd WORST in the industry.

Read the other agreements. You might be enlightened.

Hey? How come the media doesn't cover events? Or if they do it is very sparse. So many ppl I chat to have no idea that there is a labour dispute. The advertising that Telus is running in the newspapers would choke an elephant. Hmmmmmm? Could that be the reason for biased reporting? Just how much does it cost to run full page ads? Cha-ching!

"The language in the offer is the 2nd WORST in the industry."

How did you come to that conclusion? And how exactly did you measure this language? A ruler?

Wwood. yer all confused Hon... I did not say the language of the contract was "insulting" as you have alleged here...

I said it is "ambigous"... That means "easily interpreted in more than one way"..

"Insulting" however.. mean to says something that is cruel to another person or a chicken or goat or something like that...

Would using those words in context assist your understanding... Well anything for a charmer like you...

Here goes...

"Wwood's position as a scab with the company was not ambiguous but he certainly could be insulting."

Howzzat Woody??? You don't mind if I call you Woody do you? Now that we're friends and all that? Surely numerous letters back and forth for 2 days should mean I am safe to use some terms of endearment.. Right???

Silken (who does not brake for jerks...)

shawn123, Wwood, Blackadder You reminded me of a few people in the Toronto Headoffice. Information that you are posting here, just like what I'd heard from the management meeting last week. I wonder who you are???? W.P. Director, operation manager, team manager???? Telus think they have things under control using the employee in the east (spare not scab.....Toront, Montreal and Barrie office. plus the call center that they already use for outbound and some inbound pay and take call. we handle over 90,000 call a day.......what will happen if we got log out after we set up our local......set up picket line.....etc etc just like whatever that listed in the contract etc etc... Now that Telus no longer have the spare tire that they can use.....I will give it 10 days max if east employee walk the picket....just wait and see...In the east, even team manager wanted to join the union by resigning from the manager position and return to become client care rep. that is the first......more manager to follow as far as I know.........Some manager already looking for new job....they can not live with the company lie and meet with the 2 face executive on the daily bases.........my 2 cent...

Hey Bayliner... please email me at

... It's important..

Thanks!

Silken

Now don't be copyin' down my friend's email addy there Woody.. She gets really bad PMS and you don't wanna be sparrin' with her...

Problems with the contract and phrases to support my previous posts about managers disgression

1.04 The Company agrees to inform the Union of any new position created during the term of the Agreement which, in the opinion of management, does not come within the scope of the bargaining unit.

2.10 Associated work group - An "associated work group" is determined by the Company and, for purposes of this Agreement, refers to a team of employees who are normally assigned by the Company to cover or support each other.

4.01 The Company and the Union shall not discriminate on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for which a pardon has been granted and as otherwise provided by the Canadian Human Rights Act, unless proper and just cause exists.

ARTICLE 11 – GRIEVANCES

e) Complaint – an issue relating to matters not covered by this Agreement which a grievor seeks to have resolved under the provisions of this Article.

11.18 A written statement of settlement, or failing settlement, a written statement of the Company’s position at Step 3 shall constitute the final disposition of the complaint.

ARTICLE 14 – WAGE ADMINISTRATION

14.01 Wage increases shall be granted according to the wage schedules as set forth in the Appendices of this Agreement or the Memorandum of Agreement – Competitive Operator Services, where applicable, unless delayed for reasons outlined in section 14.05.

14.05 Should the Company consider that an employee has not qualified for an increase due to substandard work performance, the employee shall be so advised in writing thirty (30) days prior to the date of the scheduled increase and shall be given an opportunity to qualify. After qualifying, if the employee's work does not continue on a satisfactory basis, the increase may be rescinded with written notice to the employee. Copies of said notices will be forwarded to the Vice President of the Union. Should an employee whose increase has been deferredconsider that they have been unjustly treated, they may take it up as a grievance.

ARTICLE 15 – HEALTH AND SAFETY

15.03 When an employee encounters hazardous conditions while working alone, they shall immediately report the conditions and additional assistance shall be provided if considered necessary by management.

Work Schedules

19.06 An employee may be required to work a shift on any day of the week, as determined by the Company to meet service requirements.

19.07 (a) Schedules for Regular employees will cover a minimum four (4) week period and will be posted by management a minimum of seven (7) days prior to the date on which they are to become effective. Rolling schedules are permitted. Management will determine the appropriate work group to be included on the schedule and the method of posting the schedule.

(b) Due consideration will be given by management to Regular full-time employees in determining an equitable rotation of Day, Afternoon and Night shifts from among those who are qualified to do the work.

(c) There shall be an interval of at least eight (8) hours between successive shifts.

(d) Hours scheduled in advance by management for Temporary employees shall be shown on the same schedule as Regular employees, at the time of the posting of the schedule.

Overtime Requirements

20.04 An employee may be assigned or scheduled by management to work overtime. Where there are no qualified volunteers and the Company assigns non-continuous overtime, the assignment shall be by inverse order of seniority from amongst qualified employees in the associated work group.

20.05 Except where otherwise provided herein, overtime in excess of seven and one-half (7½) hours per employee in one week and overtime in excess of fifteen (15) hours in two (2) pay periods shall be on a voluntary basis.

20.06 Where service demands are critical or in circumstances which endanger the safety of customers or the public, compulsory overtime may be assigned in excess of that provided for in section 20.05.

V.O. time

Banking of Time In Lieu of Payment for Overtime – V.O. Time

20.20 A request for V.O. time-off shall be made at least six (6) days prior to the posting of the affected schedule or not less than ten (10) working days prior to the desired period of time-off where schedules do not apply. Where demands of the service necessitate, the Company shall have the right to defer a request for V.O. time-off. The Company shall have the right to schedule days off back to 37.5 hours any time an employee has accumulated over 37.5 hours

ARTICLE 25 – TRANSFERS AND CHANGE OF ASSIGNMENTS

25. 02 Whenever practicable, the Company will use the job posting process for situations which would result in the permanent transfer of a Regular employee from one headquarters area to another, or which would result in the permanent assignment of a Regular employee to a higher paying position.

25. 03 Where, in the Company’s opinion, it is not practicable to utilize the job posting procedure in such situations the selection of an employee for:

(a) a permanent transfer from one headquarters to another in a different headquarters area will be made by first seeking a qualified volunteer from the associated work group at that headquarters. If none are available, the employee of least seniority in the associated work group at the headquarters from where the transfer is to be made who has the necessary qualifications shall be selected.
(b) a permanent assignment to a higher paying position will be on the basis of merit, qualifications and seniority amongst eligible employees in the associated work group at the headquarters from which the selection is to be made.

ARTICLE 26 – JOB POSTING PROCEDURES

26.04 The Company will select the most suitable applicant based on its assessment of the skills, qualifications, experience, abilities, aptitude and seniority of the applicants being considered. In the event that there are no suitable applicants, the Company may fill the job opening as it deems appropriate.
26.09 When it becomes necessary for operational reasons to temporarily restrict interdepartmental transfers, the employee or employees involved and the Union office will be notified in writing two (2) weeks prior to the time the restriction becomes necessary and be advised as to the anticipated length of the period during which the restriction will be effective.

ARTICLE 28 – LAY-OFFS

(b) Lay-offs shall be according to seniority and shall be on the basis of an employee's seniority standing at the time of lay-off without regard to classification in conjunction with paragraphs (f), (g), (h). The Company shall have the right to deviate from seniority only when it is necessary to do so in order to retain employees with particular training and special qualifications necessary in the work operations involved. In that event it shall first notify the Vice President of the Union one (1) month prior to the lay-off of the employees involved taking effect. If the Union objects to the deviation from seniority proposed by the Company it shall notify the Company accordingly within fourteen (14) days of being so notified and in the event that no agreement can be reached within a further fourteen (14) days, the matter shall go to arbitration pursuant to Article 12 of this Agreement. The employees affected by the proposed deviation from seniority cannot be laid off unless the Company establishes that it is necessary to deviate from seniority in order to retain employees with particular training and special qualifications in the work operations involved.

Plant Division lay-offs shall be on the basis of seniority among the employees within theprovince in which the force adjustment is required, regardless of where the employee is headquartered within that province.

ARTICLE 29 – CONTRACTING OUT

29.01 No Regular employee will be laid off as a direct result of the Company contracting out work that is normally and currently performed by bargaining unit employees. The Company further agrees that it will not contract out any bargaining unit work in the job classification and headquarters area where there are employees on lay-off who are capable of doing the work, providing the necessary tools and equipment are available.
29.02 The Company will give notice in writing to the Union before contracting out any work that has been historically done by the employees in the bargaining unit. Such notice will state the reasons for the contracting out.

Standby Pay

B3.06 (a) Standby may be implemented by management as service requirements dictate in the following functions:
(i) Data and CPE

(ii) Cable Repair

(iii) CO switching

(iv) Transport & Access maintenance

(v) Real Estate Maintenance

(vi) Trouble Analysis Centers

(b) An employee scheduled by management on standby will complete one (1) week commencing at 7:00 a.m. of one day and continuing to 7:00 a.m. of the same day inthe following week.

(c) An employee on standby will be paid an allowance of eight (8) hours’ pay at the employee’s basic hourly rate of pay for each full week the employee is scheduled and available for standby. In addition, an employee will receive four (4) hours’ pay at the employee’s basic hourly rate of pay for each holiday specified in section 16.01 that falls within that week.

(d) Standby schedules will normally be based on a rotation of no more than one week on standby in a four week period. However, where an employee is scheduled to be on standby one week in every three week period, the standby allowance provided in subsection B3.06(c) will be increased by 25%, or, by 50% if scheduled to be on standby one week in every two week period. The increased standby allowance applies to the 2nd and subsequent standby weeks worked by the employee that meet the conditions.

MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT

VOLUNTARY SEVERANCE PROGRAMS

The parties acknowledge that our industry continues to experience significant changes. The parties agree that voluntary separation and/or early retirement incentive programs are useful in assisting the Company as it makes staffing decisions.

Where the Company introduces a voluntary separation and/or early retirement incentive program the Company will review the details of the voluntary program with the Union prior to its introduction.

And here is my personal favorite:

ARTICLE 25 – TRANSFERS AND CHANGE OF ASSIGNMENTS

25. 01 The Company may assign or transfer an employee, on a temporary or permanent basis, from one headquarters to another or from one job title to another, as required to conduct its business efficiently and to effectively deploy and develop its employees. Without limiting the foregoing, this includes such considerations as matching available staff to workload, reasonable accommodation, placement of surplus, training and development of employees, moves associated with office closures, consolidations or centralizations, etc.

What lawyer would ever allow his/her client to sign a document with the word ETC. in it?

Skepticool, you made a comment about union busting that could be of use to the TWU. Can you please contact me at
sid.shniad@twu-canada.ca ?

Thanks.

Thank you Henesey... I see the "boys" couldn't handle the truth in black & white... Where'd they go???

So easy for people to come on here and slander the Union without ever having to actually support their statements...

So far... it's Christians 10, Lions 0

Silken

Wwood says beware of mediation. If the Telus offer is so much better than the mediators likely outcome, why didn't we see mediation here? This makes no sense. The TWU also seeing that the Telus offer is so much better than the Shaw/Bell deals, they would have to recommend acceptance right? What am I missing here? Someones not telling the truth here!

Why does telus not want to go to mediation is because they would prefer to engage thier 'interested' employees as opposed to having an unengaged 3rd party impose an agreement. They have gone to great lengths to structure the offer to be an industry leading offer, which it clearly is. The twu on the other hand simply continues to refer to thier aged agreement with no creative strategies to work with the company. In the end given no progress and no signs of progress they implimented the offer. Great for those that are working and a pity to those that are not.I would be very inteterested in hearing from any twu expert on the strengths and weaknesses of the telus offer compared with those in place with Bell, Shaw (also a twu agreement of which the twu should be very fluent with) and say quest or verizon. This will be what any mediator looks to despite what some may believe. If anyone is burying thier heads in the sand refusing to read the offer or ask for comparisons they may want to become informed. Take control of your own destiny before it is too late. Look what happened to the nhl, their first offer was by far the best one. At the end of the day thier leadership made a grave miscalculation and was chastized by the members in hindsight. Have some foresight on this one.

"So easy for people to come on here and slander the Union without ever having to actually support their statements.."

The Union makes slandering them too easy. Bruce Bell makes public statements that sound like they were written by a 4 year old. That is one of the main reason I have no confidence in the TWU. If you guys are smart you'll seek out a REAL union who can effectively handle this dispute pronto. Do this before the TWU loses everything for the employees and ends up getting replaced anyway.

Now you got it Club...Someone is NOT telling the truth.. There is a long history to the Union's attempt to get Telus to the table.. one that could not be contained in this forum... Suffice to say, Telus has played "the game" refusing despite court orders, to provide the TWU with the employee list of Clearnet employees, then only providing part of it, agreeing to an arbitrator, then backing out... They have been found to be guilty of unfair labor practices and "insidious" attempts to circumvent the union. They chose to impose their "offer" on the employees directly hoping that with the lack of legal knowledge, most would agree to it. The average representative, reading the offer may think it is fine but trained legal minds know better. The Union has consistently tried to get Telus to accept arbitration and they have consistently refused, KNOWING that MOST employees won't rush the offer over to their own lawyers for review. It isn't that Telus wishes to engage "interested parties".. It IS that Entwhistle is attempting to bust the Union and hoped that most of the bargaining unit would be unaware that all of the qualifiers within the offer was going to deprive them of rights that are even granted by the provincial legislation that protects most employees. The court has ruled that this is a LOCKOUT.. not a strike.. a fact which a lot of people seem to be overlooking. I have the advantage of 20 years in law and when I read that offer, I see an ambiguously drafted piece of crap where the company avoids responsibility for the most common employee rights that the private sector has... Your point that the arbitrator would have knowledge of industry standards and there should therefore be no reluctance on the company's part.. is the entire point of the issue!!! The Company has lawyers because they are in the telecom industry and know nothing of the law. The Union has lawyers because they are representatives for the bargaining unit and also require the expertise of lawyers trained in wordage. The Company has so little respect for its employees that they thought shipping the offer to us directly with a few bolded personalizations was going to be enough for most of us to overlook our right to have that proposal viewed and considered by experts trained in such matters.. It's all pretty simple.. But.. I am sure Entwhistle and his minions have found out that the Union is in fact doing what the employees have asked them to do and every body walking that line is in full support of them...

Silken

Shawn... the Union can hardly be called "unengaged" when we all voluntarily pay our Union dues... Get serious! An "industry-leading" offer? Are you a lawyer Shawn?? Somehow, I don't think so...

Monster.. As long as the Union is doing what it's doing.. which is protecting our best interests AND being willing to negotiate with the Company, they ARE doing what Unions are supposed to do! The TWU has the full support of many unions... You make no points with your derogatory comments!

Silken

Voluntarily huh.
If it was voluntarily why all the sad faces when after 3 weeks of picketing the picketers first cheques were a fraction of what they were supposed to be because of all the back union dues being taken off. If it is voluntary why is the union going back to the courst to appeal that telus is no longer collecting on thier behalf. More slanted information from the bitter minority. Why have you stayed here and continue to stay?

Why not visit our website Shawn? Or better yet, visit the picket line?? You will see and hear people of tremendous integrity sharing very close moments and yes.. even some laughter... I don't know where you are finding sad faces because OUR faces carry only determination and integrity.... There isn't one of us who likes being starved into submission so if in fact, we are upset with our diminished paycheques, that could be considered a "normal" reaction to the continuous suffering we are subjected to by arrogant corporate greed...

I have answered your "why have you stayed here and contine to stay" question already in this forum... I stay because I am of the belief that our clients.. my next door neighbors, friends and families... are entitled to good service, honesty and someone who offers the caring service I offer. I stay because I do not believe that one can avoid arrogant elitist attitudes that reek of verbal diarrhea and no conscience. I stay because I have children who will also find themselves subject to the labor standards of this country. I stay because I am in service to a public I care about... and by my caring, I lessen the sting of the corporation's lack of caring... Does that answer your question?

Now why are you interested in MY reasons? What are yours???

Silken

Thank you Silken, I'd say you've kicked butt on this issue. I'm just looking for logic and there is a big piece of it missing here on the corporate side.

Don't forget everyone, General strike Friday September 2nd!

I stay for some of the same reasons you do such as serving the customers of telus. since you and your ilk are telling your friends and neighbors to take their services elsewhere, shouldn't you then be elsewhere also so you can serve them like no other. Not quite sure that I can buy the rest of the save the world stuff. I do my bit outside of work and I also am part of the telus match donation program which i am certain you are aware of. Because of the generosity of telus my charities benefit twice as much because of telus matching my contributions. Are you sure the rest of the membership understands that they may be making the sacrifices that they are making because they "do not believe that one can avoid arrogant elitist attitudes that reek of verbal diarrhea and no conscience. and "because I have children who will also find themselves subject to the labor standards of this country." I hope they all buy in to why they are really out. So it's really not about an agreement that is fair in comparison to others in the same industry then. Don't you think the folks on the line who just want a fair deal should be notified of the extent of the reasons then?
Good luck on the general strike i suppose the world will practically stop revolving on sept 2. I'll stock up on supplies

Shawn... you seem so troubled as you continue to scab.. Is this your method of trying to appease your own conscience? You asked me for MY reasons for staying.. Then you take them and apply them to being every person's reasons.. You have done that throughout your postings.. If you want a public survey, I suggest you go to a more public venue and do one... You asked me for MY reasons and that's what you got. I have no need to sell them to you and I care even less if you buy into them..

No.. the LOCKOUT is not about an agreement that is fair in comparison to others in the same industry... The LOCKOUT is about Telus' imposition of a proposal drafted in legalease with enough loopholes to stick your foot through. It is about the appointed parties meeting in mediation. It is about the precise application of professional expertise in measuring the value of that offer and upon finding something unfair or ambiguous, the ability of the Company and the Union to negotiate it. Jeez Shawn.. wake up and smell the coffee!!!

You have chosen to scab even tho you KNEW and HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN that Telus is a union shop! You signed an oath to stand with your brothers and sisters. You, as a SCAB, are about as interested in what is fair for your colleagues as Darren and his minions are! We, on the line, know exactly what the reasons are for our presence there. They have now been partially explained here... The folks on the line know what the reasons for their being there is...The company's attempt to foist an UN-NEGOTIATED and UN-MEDIATED offer on it's employees amounted to a lockout and the company failed in its attempt to have people untrained in the applications of contract law, go ahead and sign their ugly proposal. That's what happened and all your smokescreening changes nothing!

YOU appear to be the only one who is confused and thinking that the world should stumble along doing what he is told rather than what makes sense. The objective is to bring the entire matter back to the table which Telus refuses to do.

Congratulations on your charitable donations... whatever they may be, I am sure they will soothe your conscience as you attempt to rake in the benefit of the sacrifices made by your colleagues while you continue to think they should all be as dense as you are.. Your current benefits are also the result of negotiations between the Union and the Company.. Try not to forget where those came from as you suck em up!

I have no further reason to speak with you as you have not troubled yourself to do anything more than pretend you have some sort of interest in the wellness of people you now walk by each and every day...

As a scab, you are the one who has to assuage your own conscience because every day, you have your own self to face in a mirror that reflects the 2 dimensional person you are...

I have nothing further to say to a scab except that at the end of the day, you have to live with your own selfish refusal to face the facts as they are and your conscienceless betrayal of those you profess to care about... I am glad it's you and not me...

You stock up on supplies for the strike Shawn.. I suspect you might want to place an order for a conscience while you're ordering...

Silken

Silken

Just remember it always starts out as S#@T and becomes fretilizer for the roses by the time it gets to the top of the corperate ladder.

Even in trailer courts the people that are human have..."Integrity, consciences and care for the whole and not the part."

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!

It sure does, doesn't it Dpro?? Thanks my bro... you too!!!

Silken

Telus still not playing by the RULES!.... what rules? Seems the rules only apply to TWU members. I am still asking...... are we Proud Canadians? Not with this kind of bull going on.
Check out the website: Ajiloncomm.com
Ajilon Communications specializes in jobs for telecommunications Companies. And guess what? One of their clients is ............you got it....Telus.
Another of the many infractions that can be added to the list. They just keep going......and going.....and going....
Wonder how they sleep (when they get a chance to sleep)at night and feel good about themselves. How brainwashed are their families? Cripes!

sorry site is Ajiloncom.com

Too bad SCAB - there's not a union anywhere that will ever represent you and your SCAB buddies who crossed our picket line. Yeah, we've heard the telus rhetoric at the kool-aid parties that DE will help you to bring in another union if you should decide to decertify the TWU. Do you really think that any union would take a gaggle of telus SCABS under their wing? Give your head a shake! The offer you signed to cross the picket line is only good for the length of time telus chooses (if you've taken the time to read it in detail). You're on your own Bub. Oh, yeah, go ahead and tell me how friendly your future is when I see you out on the street looking for another job! Drink some more kool-aid . . .

People really need to be careful what they are asking for regarding outsourcing. When I see people talk about outsourcing being bad for Canadians they are completely ill-informed. Canada has been the recipient of between 300,000 and 400,000 net new contact center jobs (sources, National post story entitled "Canada Calling" from May 2004 and http://thewhir.com/marketwatch/us082704.cfm) due to outsourcing. If US companies such as IBM, Zerox, etc, etc had no ability to outsource contact center jobs, Canada would lose these jobs. Telus employs as many contact center employees that handle calls for other carriers that outsource their operator services and technical support to telus as telus has for their own needs. If telus can not remain competitive these carriers will take this business to other call center providers which would result in about one half of the current telus call center employees being redundant. Regarding the much talked about call center telus has invested in the phillipines; first, if telus wanted to outsource jobs to the phillipines they certainly did not have to invest in a call center, there are many who would take their business with no investment whether it be the phillpines, india, ireland or canada. The center telus invested in currently has a number of blue chip clients who have made the choice to outsource some of their call center needs off shore. This is a growing business off shore as well as in Canada and telus is again very smart to take advantage of this growing trend in order to grow their business for their clients. They are addressing the needs and wants of customers they are not using it for their own purposes. The union stance that outsourcing is bad for Canadians and telus is completely unfounded, both Canada and telus are huge benefactors of this growing trend. IF we can remain competitive as a country and a telus as a company we will continue to be their recipient of continued growth. Have a read and then I would love to hear your comments. Know your facts! If any of the silent majority of twu members read this, ask twu leadership (I use that term very loosely) why this type of information has not been shared with us.

btw Shawn123, have not heard of anyone getting less than $250. Just another lie being told to all of you on the inside.

Also don't you think it is convenient that Telus would stop collecting dues, hmmm think they were hoping that the TWU would ask for them from our picket pay? Just another example of the care for their employees that your ELT is showing. Let's stop doing our jobs (collecting dues) and foist that responsibility back on our employees. Because in the end it did nothing for the company, only caused hardship for it's employees.

So angus it will be a pleasure acting as a witness at your tribunal that is coming up , if you are the person I think you are. Oh didn't you hear? The first notices were mailed this week, the tribunals are starting. But don't worry the company told you it will break the law again and pay your fines. The same people who made Telus Idol, the same people who lied about binding arbitration, the same people who claimed it was TWU members vandalizing it's equipment(only to take back the accusation). The same people who lie and call this a strike, when we all know the FIrst Notice of Lockout Procedures happened on April 24, 2005. Or don't you read those communications? Have fun working for free, I guess a $10000 debt is worth it for a company you believe so much in.

Ummm one small division does Operator Services for outsourced Telus clients. The rest of the call centers you refer to are technical support divisions for Telus products.

Oh and btw any ideas why Dell moved their services from India to Edmonton? Same reason some people who call Telus and are transferred from Montreal say " Gee it's nice to speak to someone who speaks english." Unfortunately prejudice plays a role in this decision.

Do you not think that if our dollar every got back to a state where it was the same as the US that they would not be moving their services back down south?

Couple of comments. First the company has no beef with the employees. The soft lockout measure of stopping to collect union dues on behalf of the twu was meant to cause inconvenience to the twu exec which it did. not sure how it inconvenienced the general membership whatsoever. The general membership are fantastic and valued employees of telus. unfortunately for them they are being fed a load of bull by the shortsighted leaders and narrowminded hardliners. Second, read the twu constitution before you go trying to further intimidate members by spouting false figures about fines.
Section C: PENALTIES
1. Upon a verdict of guilty of any charge the Trial Board may impose a penalty of expulsion, suspension, fine (not to exceed $1,000.00)Also telus has not told anyone they would pay any fines, what they have said is that there is no enforcible way for the twu to collect these fines other that to take it off the 1,000 gift they give you when you leave. Big deal.
BTW Dell has centers in everyone of the countries posted above and are constantly moving them in order to suit thier needs. Better add dell to the list of products you won't use because you are so righteous.

Re the value of the Canadian dollar. Really you should read the whole piece.

excerpt-
For the American companies sending work up here, there are big savings. According to a KPMG study examining the cost of doing business in leading industrialized nations, Canada is the least costly place to operate, and the savings are particularly pronounced in small-town Canada. Drive across the border, a few hours down the road from Sault Ste. Marie to Saginaw, Mich. and the cost of running a call center or other back-office operation according to the KPMG study, rises by 35%. A lower Canadian dollar helps, but it is only one factor, "The good news for Canada is that even if the dollar were to rise in value to more than 90 cents, Canadian cities will continue to enjoy a significant cost advantage over their US counterparts."

If you had it your way there would be no exporting of jobs. If that were the case Canada loses big time. Stop all the fearmongering and get real. Get informed! Open your eyes, you can't have it both ways!!

Quote:
Too bad SCAB - there's not a union anywhere that will ever represent you and your SCAB buddies who crossed our picket line. Yeah, we've heard the telus rhetoric at the kool-aid parties that DE will help you to bring in another union if you should decide to decertify the TWU. Do you really think that any union would take a gaggle of telus SCABS under their wing? Give your head a shake! The offer you signed to cross the picket line is only good for the length of time telus chooses (if you've taken the time to read it in detail). You're on your own Bub. Oh, yeah, go ahead and tell me how friendly your future is when I see you out on the street looking for another job! Drink some more kool-aid . . .

I am not a scab. I haven't crossed a picket line. I do not work for Telus. And I thank the good Lord for that because I'd be represented by one of the most ineffective unions in the history of Canada.

And I'm sure another union would love to take in the employees of Telus (whether they crossed the picket line or not). After all, any union is just after your dues.

Brilliant move by the twu if you are an employee of a telus competitor. Not so brilliant if you are an employee of telus. the twu leadership has just effectively eliminated work and jobs for it's members. Like spoiled children on the playground. "if I can't win the game i'm going to break it so no one can play". Peculiar strategy.

TWU Press Release
August 18, 2005 News Category: Press

TWU greets P.N.E. decision not to use Telus

“This is great news,” declared an elated Karen Whitfield, Telecommunications Workers Union Business Agent, referring to an agreement that the union has reached with Mike McDaniel, CEO of the Pacific National Exhibition.

“They have agreed that they will not allow any Telus people on site to do Telus work throughout the fair and beyond. The PNE owns its own equipment and cable. They have made arrangements with other service providers to ensure that their communications needs are addressed,” Whitfield explained.

“They have also advised PNE exhibitors that they will not be able to have Telus on site to do any work. Pay phones on the site have been marked out of order and will not be repaired,” she continued.

“The members of the TWU are very appreciative of the PNE’s co-operation with us under these difficult circumstances. We wish them a very successful fair and encourage TWU members as well as members of the public to go and have a great time,” Whitfield concluded.

The PNE is a registered, non-profit charity, owned by the City of Vancouver. It generates revenues from its Playland Amusement Park, its annual 17-day fair, and year-round rentals of its building and facilities.

Sorry Shawn that is per incident or didn't your manager tell you that? Each time you cross the line it is an incident, which means that each time you CROSS THE PICKET LINE it can cost you up to $1000, better go read that for yourself. It also states that the assessment takes place at the tribunal and the tribunal can ask for all wages made while crossing the picket line and ask for all OT that was made during the OT ban. I have been told we have to be reasonable in these cases as most judges don't like to be too harsh, so the union will state that the said member has been seen crossing the picket line on 10 occasions and under the the stautes of the TWU we could ask for $10000 FINES, but we are only seeking $5000 in this case. The other $10000 we are seeking your honor is for the wages made while working illegally. Now run to your manger and ask him about this , it will be interesting to see how they spin it.

Or better yet call someone at the CEP local 1900 for the A channel in Edmonton and ask them what happened to their scabs. I already did, but I'll let you get that answer for yourself as this will not affect me either way.

Oh and again it has been beaten to death but no the union does not collect the fines, they have 2 different avenues for that , give them to a collection agency (bye bye credit rating)or get a judge to garnish your wages. Now your going to say prove it, well I don't have too , I have read the excerpts of the many different cases where the courts have ordered these fines and assessments to be paid. You should really go look for them yourselves instead of taking your mangers word for it.

This is the quote I have heard time and again on the issue, "My manger told me they have not found any cases where the union can do this." Guess what, it is not a lie if none of them have ever looked for any, unfortunately for you though it does not mean that there are not any cases where unions have been successful doing such things.

Good luck at your tribunal.

Wwood says: Stop all the fearmongering and get real. Get informed! Open your eyes, you can't have it both ways!!

I don't see any indication from your posts that you have any concern for the future. You sound as if we can continue this assault on Mother Earth forever. Your mantra "maximize profits now" is getting a bit stale in this day and age don't you think? Have you considered what the term "peak oil" means to the future of economics, or is that just more fearmongering? Of course you don't believe in global warming yet either. You probably think there are still more fish in the ocean than there ever were at any time in the past. You either believe than we are on the road to prosperity now and no deviation is required, or you can conclude that things must change. Once you have become informed and aware, you will see things in a different light. It's the people who count the most. I'm not a unionist but I believe that many, especially the posters here have been enlightened. Especially when you read how Ed Deak can put it in plain and simple terms. The time of creating wealth on the backs of others simply must end and soon. As famous CEO Ray Anderson put it, "in the future, CEO's will be called criminals if they continue what they are doing today. Start bargaining for the future, instead of this selfishness on both parts. This is a complex equation presenting itself and to think you can just continue straight ahead is going to put us in chaos. Good luck to both sides, I hope you can both come to the realization that you are not only co-workers and neighbors, but traveling companions on this planet. Leadership is vision, show us some.

Sorry Shawn not sure I was clear enough for you, each member will get a trial for each incident, we are not allowed to bring multiple charges against you at the same trial. So each time you cross you create an offence in the unions eyes, and each one of these offences is dealt with as a unique incident. Which means the first incident might cost you $1000 in fines plus all your wages for the day , first case over now we move on to your next case. Again we as the tribunal board will be seeking a fine of $1000 plus all wages made that day. So do you get it now?

Wwood you response is curious so if our dollar was to rise above tha US as it was a long time ago you really think the will pay more to have the work done here? Open YOUR eyes.

And when your saving 20 cents on the dollar that is definitely the most significant contributing factor. Let me help you here, that is a savings of $200000 on every million, or a million dollars on every 5 million spent, understand?

Of course the fact that we have a very educated workforce, who has embraced technology quicker and more vehemently than even our neighbours to the south, is also a contributing factor. It is hard finding people with the proper skills if the first time they saw a computer was at their interview.

Only fearmongering going on is you trying to convince me outsoucing jobs from Canada is a good idea or else we'll lose our jobs?

You said:
Only fearmongering going on is you trying to convince me outsoucing jobs from Canada is a good idea or else we'll lose our jobs?

I did not say 'from' Canada I said 'to' Canada. The article is about the contact center business in canada. What i said was "If you had it your way there would be no exporting of jobs. If that were the case Canada loses big time". We lose because we are not hurt by exporting of these jobs we are the main place they are being exported to for god sake. All these people investing 100's of millions of dollars in building canadian centers are not as smart as you though. Maybe they should ask for garantees so they can be like you and be garanteed a living. if they don't get the garantee then they should abondone the business. bye, bye 400,000 canadian jobs. Thankfully that will not happen because there are people in this world who take risks and don't ask for garantees that provide the jobs for everyone. Luckily we don;t have to rely on folks like you for that. you represent the takers in this world.

ooops should have made sure my girlfriend had logged out

No here let me explain the situation for you again Shawn as I see you have missed the point. I do understand the benefit that Canada is experiencing from companies in the States outsourcing their jobs to our lovely country. But I wonder how all those american workers enjoyed losing their jobs when the whole outsourcing of IT support centers began? I'm sure all their families understood that the company had to increase profits to stay viable in this changing global community. Whether you like it or not outsourcing jobs from the country of origin hurts the people who were previously doing those jobs. I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I am honest enough to admit that Canada's gain was someone elses loss.

And now to the quote you misunderstood, Darren wants to outsource our jobs from here in Canada to the Phillipines. So this type of outsourcing to foreign countries is what hurts the economy of the country they are being exported from, is it becoming clear?

Now as for the term taker, if you mean that I want to make sure that future generations enjoy the same benefits our parents enjoyed, then yes I am a taker. If you mean making sure I defend the right for EVERY Canadian worker to be allowed to have an honest job and make an honest days pay, then yes I am a taker. If you mean that I am a taker because I believe corporations need to be kept in check and should reward their employees when the company sees record profits, then yes I am a taker. If you mean I am a taker because I feel every Canadian has the right to be treated with respect and needs to be protected at times from meglomaniacal bosses , then yes I am a taker.

Oh and btw ask all the folks at UK Wireless and Cable how they feel about your big risk taker Darren? It is not a risk when you personally have nothing to lose(ie. Darrens golden parachute of 13 million dollars) It is not a risk if you are playing with others lives. According to you then the generals of an army are the big risk takers , eventhough they never put a foot down until the beach was secured. If you ask any of our veterans they will tell you no general every took the risks necessary to win the fights , it was the grunt in the trenches. And though leaders are necessary there will always be hitlers, amins, and stalins, who need to be removed for the greater good of society.

No the only risk takers I see right now are myself and the other members of the TWU willing to take the risk to stand up for our rights.

"themonster"

Oh yea, YOU're the moron who PM'd me and told me about all the cash you were making...Putting your cheque? next to the family portrait...

Cheque? What happened to the direct deposit? You certainly give Spew McArthur a run for his money in BS sweepstakes.

Oh, you don't even work for Telus? Go home kid, you're out of your league little boy...You're so far removed from reality, you wouldn't know it if it bit you on the butt.

On a lighter note:

Last night while I lay sleeping
I died or so it seems.
Then I went to Heaven,
But t'was only in my dream

But it seems St. Peter met me,
There at the Pearly Gate,
He said "I must check your record
So stand right here and wait."

He returned and said, "Your record
is clouded up with flaws."
But on earth I see you labored
For a very worthy cause.

You fought snow & ice in the winter,
Drove posts in the summer heat.
Then frowned upon by the public
When you stopped for a bite to eat.

I saw where you drank whiskey,
And used tobacco too.
Fact is you've done everything
That a good man shouldn't do.

We can't have men like you up here
Your life was full of sin,
Then he read the last of my record
Grasped my hand and said "Come in.'

He took me up to the Big Boss
Said "Take him in and treat him well.
He worked for the telephone company, Sir

He's had his share of hell."

and finally:

I'm the Boss

The boss was complaining in our staff meeting the other day that he wasn't getting any respect.

Later that morning he went to a local sign shop and bought a small sign that read:

"I'm the Boss!"

He then taped it to his office door.

Later that day when he returned from lunch, he found that someone had taped a note to the sign that said:

"Your wife called, she wants her sign back!"

You all have a great day....LOL

thx Dpro needed that :)

Excellent Dpro... Loved it!!!!

Regards in solidarity,

Silken

I read with intrigue all the benefits we get from those call center jobs. My daughter has one. So do some of my friends kids. Because there are so many Mcjobs like these, we parents can all pay their rent for them, because they can't.
Now we'll outsource the call centers too, just like we did with manufacturing. Our grandkids can work three full time jobs to make ends meet.

Herbie,

I just had to share this one with you before calling it a night.

Tomatoes May be an Option

A unemployed man goes to apply for a job with the telephone company as a operator.
The manager there arranges for him to take an aptitude test.

After the test, the manager says, "You will be employed at minimum wage, $5.15 an hour. Let me have your telephone number or e-mail address, so that I can send you a form to complete and tell you where to report for work on your first day."

Taken aback, the man protests that he has neither a telephone, a computer nor an e-mail address. To this the manager replies, "Well then that means that you virtually don't exist and can therefore hardly expect to be employed."

Stunned, the man leaves. Not knowing where to turn and having only $10 in his wallet, he decides to buy a 25 lb flat of tomatoes at the supermarket. Within less than 2 hours, he sells all the tomatoes individually at 100% profit. Repeating the process several times more that day, he ends up with almost $100 before going to sleep that night.

And thus it dawns on him that he could quite easily make a living selling tomatoes. Getting up early every day and going to bed late, he multiplies his profits quickly.

After a short time he acquires a cart to transport several dozen boxes of tomatoes, only to have to trade it in again so that he can buy a pick-up truck to support his expanding business.

By the end of the second year, he is the owner of a fleet of pick-up trucks and manages a staff of a hundred formerly unemployed people, all selling tomatoes.

Planning for the future of his wife and children, he decides to buy some life insurance. Consulting with an insurance adviser, he picks an insurance plan to fit his new circumstances. At the end of the telephone conversation, the adviser asks him for his e-mail address in order to send the final documents electronically.

When the man replies that he has no e-mail address, the adviser is stunned.

"What, you don't have e-mail? How on earth have you managed to amass such wealth without the telephone companies internet, e-mail and e-commerce? Just imagine where you would be now, if you had been connected with us from the very start!"

After a moment of thought, the tomato millionaire replied, "Why, of course! I would be an operator at the telephone company working for $5.15 an hour!"

“Hang in there brothers and sisters”

TY Herbie.....you brought a smile to my face. Bless you.

Good good good Dpro.... coming and checking this forum is making me feel better and better about fighting for a cause. MY JOB! How dare Telus treat us like this. They have gotten 30+ years of my hard dedicated labour. Now they want to pull this kind of c**p. Don't want to wish my life away....but if I were 55 I would be gone. Thinking of getting a part time job as I can't pay my mortgage and eat at the same time. Thanks a bunch greedy Telus! Pay your scabs! Then boot their asses to the curb. Or should I say, feed them to the wolves! Because when they get the boot their scabbie Resumes will do diddly squat! That is if they have the guts to put in their Resume the fact that they crossed a picket line. They just don't GET IT do they?

Quote from Dessident "Oh yea, YOU're the moron who PM'd me and told me about all the cash you were making...Putting your cheque? next to the family portrait...

Cheque? What happened to the direct deposit? You certainly give Spew McArthur a run for his money in BS sweepstakes.

Oh, you don't even work for Telus? Go home kid, you're out of your league little boy...You're so far removed from reality, you wouldn't know it if it bit you on the butt."

Hahaha...some more union paranoia. 'Ooo...my manager is out to get me.' Ooo...the Telus Executive team is lieing to me but the TWU leaders never ever would.' 'Ooo...they're gonna move my job to the Philipines.' You're the one who needs a grip on reality.

Wish I knew what you were talking about. Frankly I wish YOU knew what you were talking about. I have no idea how to PM somebody here. I don't work for Telus and if I did I certainly wouldn't be afraid to admit it to you or some "tribunal" who has no lawful way of making their charges stick. One of the most ridiculous pipe dreams I have ever heard. And YOU guys are buying into it. Hook, line, and sinker.

Man sometimes things in life go right when you least expect it....

I went to the store today, and I was in there for only about 5 minutes.

When I came out there was a motorcycle cop writing a parking ticket.

So I went up to him and said, "Come on, buddy, how about giving a guy a break?"

He ignored me and continued writing the ticket.

So I called him a pencil-necked doughnut eating Nazi.

He glared at me and started writing another ticket for worn tires!

So I called him a piece of horse s*#t rolled up in pig s*#t and put inside an old Girl Guide uniform.

He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first.

Then, he started writing a third ticket!

This went on for about 20 minutes.

The more I abused him, the more tickets he wrote.

I didn't care... my car was parked around the corner.

He was putting tickets on the car that belongs to a scab.

You know one of those that think it is their right to take the food out of the mouth of those of us who are trying to get fair (honest) pay for and honest days work.

Being locked out does have its benefits!

Hang in there brother and sisters, it will get better….LOL

Reply to wwood

In regarding to your comment:

Telus employs as many contact center employees that handle calls for other carriers that outsource their operator services and technical support to telus as telus has for their own needs. If telus can not remain competitive these carriers will take this business to other call center providers which would result in about one half of the current telus call center employees being redundant.

I have been working for Telus for the past 6 years and never in my life work as a Telus employee and represented other carriers or company. So I believe what you were referring to this the non union contract employee in Philippine. Let me get this clear. To avoid the non-union contract cheap Philippine employee from becoming redundant, and for Telus to be benefit from this growing trend. The only option for Telus is to outsource. So your plan is to break the union and lay offer one half of the current TWU Telus call canter employee (like what had done before.) because the are high pay redundant TWU employee and replace them with one half of the current Philippine Telus call center employees for cost saving.
The employee number is the same but the SAVING and PROFITS my God!!!!
So that is what you the big boy executive team see as big picture. No benefit to the community, not growth for the local economy and selling out Canada.
So I believed that none of you have children of your own to worry about in the future.
All the benefit has to be NOW, NOW NOW, so you can get your fat million dollar bonus…..
So much for your foreseeing the future but your foreskin is covering your eyes. …………
Need I say more……….

But the way, Wwood is the same as Shawn123?????? Multiples personality?????? 2 faces???

Dpro... Luvin' your stories!!! Keep em coming!!! Laughter is such a wonderful survival tool!

Silken

Henesey you seem to have a handle on the different ways in which the company is proposing to change out the terms in the contract (keep up the good work) i.e.

“Problems with the contract and phrases to support my previous posts about “MANAGERS DISGRESSION”

i.e. 1.04 “which, in the opinion of management”

2.10 “is determined by the Company’’

4.01 “unless proper and just cause exists.”

ARTICLE 11 – GRIEVANCES
11.18 “a written statement of the Company’s position at Step 3 shall constitute the final disposition of the complaint.”

ARTICLE 14 – WAGE ADMINISTRATION
14.05 “Should the Company consider”

ARTICLE 15 – HEALTH AND SAFETY
15.03 “considered necessary by management.”

Work Schedules
19.06 “as determined by the Company”

19.07 (a) “Management will determine”

Overtime Requirements
20.04 “by management to work overtime.”

20.06 "compulsory overtime may be assigned in excess of that provided for in section 20.05.

Banking of Time In Lieu of Payment for Overtime – V.O. Time

20.20 “the Company shall have the right to defer a request for V.O. time-off. The Company shall have the right to schedule days off back to 37.5 hours any time an employee has accumulated over 37.5 hours”

ARTICLE 25 – TRANSFERS AND CHANGE OF ASSIGNMENTS
25. 03 “in the Company’s opinion”

(a) “the employee of least seniority in the associated work group at the headquarters from where the transfer is to be made who has the necessary qualifications shall be selected.”

ARTICLE 26 – JOB POSTING PROCEDURES
26.04 “In the event that there are no suitable applicants, the Company may fill the job opening as it deems appropriate.”

26.09 “When it becomes necessary for operational reasons”

ARTICLE 28 – LAY-OFFS
(b) “The Company shall have the right to deviate from seniority only when it is necessary to do so in order to retain employees with particular training and special qualifications necessary in the work operations involved”

“lay-offs shall be on the basis of seniority among the employees within the province in which the force adjustment is required”

ARTICLE 29 – CONTRACTING OUT
29.01 “providing the necessary tools and equipment are available.”

29.02 “The Company will give notice in writing to the Union before contracting out any work that has been historically done by the employees in the bargaining unit. Such notice will state the reasons for the contracting out.”

Standby Pay
B3.06 (a) “Standby may be implemented by management as service requirements dictate in the following functions:”
(d) “Standby schedules will normally be based on a rotation of no more than one week on standby in a four week period. However, where an employee is scheduled to be on standby one week in every three week period,”

B3.06(c) “will be increased by 25%, or, by 50% if scheduled to be on standby one week in every two week period.”

MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT

VOLUNTARY SEVERANCE PROGRAMS

“The parties acknowledge that our industry continues to experience significant changes. The parties agree that voluntary separation and/or early retirement incentive programs are useful in assisting the Company as it makes staffing decisions.”

ARTICLE 25 – TRANSFERS AND CHANGE OF ASSIGNMENTS
25. 01 “etc.”

Is anyone authorized in TELUS to give a straight answer?

Note: As an old boy from the BC Tel days of the 70’s when we were out on another non strike lockout by the company and had an arbitrator appointed “Hugh Ladner” to resolve the dispute. Hugh Ladner came up with the solution of salaries and the granting of 16 ATO’s (Accumulative Time Off) days. As this lockout had taken so long to reach a proposed settlement, the TWU requested that they and the BC Tel come to agreement on the remaining outstanding contract language that every one questioned. This took an additional two weeks to come to a consensus and the union had to agree to give four of the sixteen ATO’s they had won back to the company for getting a written clarification on the contract language.

As the song from Cabaret says “Life became beautiful” and we and carried on as both parties were satisfied and work force harmony prevailed and money was made by all.

My questions to any one qualified who can answer me (i.e. the lawyer that puts an etc. in a non negotiated contract) knowing that no judge in the land would respect the wording.

Note before you wanabees jump in, i.e. “whacky woody” or the other misinformed who are now working for TELUS as SCAB’s.
• Note you are not qualified or authorized to provide a company position.
• One can only guess that you are only in it for the money as your generous company pension plan is insufficient in your golden years.
• Or that you get a great sense of satisfaction by taking work away from honest workers who have waited for close to five years and are being denied a negotiated contract and are now locked out.
• It does not seem to bother you that you are taken food out of the mouths of the families who are the true working force they call TELUS.

Questions:
1. For agreeing to this non negotiated company contract we would be getting a generous bonus of say $20,000 which would be taxable at a minimum of 30% thus taking it down to $14,000

2. In the non negotiated company proposed contract they say the will pay us for giving back 9 ATO’s i.e. $230 per day x 9 days = $2,070 or for say $2070 x 4 years = $8,280 (remember we already paid the income tax on this already.) This now takes the gracious bonus down to $14,000 - $8,280 = $5,880. If we have to pay back any of these monies is the company going to reimburse for the tax paid on it with interest?

3. What a bonus. That works out to $5.880 / 4 years or $1,470 a year or $114.16 per month. Sure does not appear the cash load promised to the working force by the corporate gurus.

4. As the working force is an average age of over 50 where does the pension benefits of working the last 4½ years with out a raise come in? Also figure into the picture those employees that will turn age 55 in the next four years and may also elect early retirement? Where do they stand?

When we joined together with Alberta the brand agreed upon was TELUS.
It promised the “the future is friendly” as workers we bought into it hook line and sinker.

But it appears to me that it what it really stands for now is:

T = telephone
E = employees
L = living
U = under
S = stress

dpro
not sure what your point is in quoting all of the various provisions in the companies new contract. Have you looked at the old one here's a few selections. I got tired of finding more. Note the last one. it is the very same as the one you quoted except it says 5 days instead of 37.5 hours. Hey lucky your not working for Shaw it would have been 40 hours.

Article XXIX –
3rd paragraph. “at the discretion of the company”
5th paragraph “at the discretion of the company”
Article 9.5 “at managements discretion”
Article 10.2a “the company shall have the right to defer”
Appendix 2.2b “the company shall have the right to”
3b “subject to the payroll department”
Craft appendix general clause 2. “which management considers to be extraordinary”
Appendix 2 article 1.2 Employees may be required
5. when it is necessary to meet the requirements of the service
Clerical Shedule of wage rates
8 no part of this agreement shall be construed as meaning that an employee shall do only the work of the classification in which they are employed
5.b when exceptional circumstances exist
Article 6 the company shall notify the union inn writing of any additions
Article 8 VO Time provisions 2a The company shall have the right to defer a request for V.O. time off. And b The company shall have the right to schedule days off back to 5 days

Quote "Hugh Ladner came up with the solution of salaries and the granting of 16 ATO’s (Accumulative Time Off) days. As this lockout had taken so long to reach a proposed settlement, the TWU requested that they and the BC Tel come to agreement on the remaining outstanding contract language that every one questioned. This took an additional two weeks to come to a consensus and the union had to agree to give four of the sixteen ATO’s they had won back to the company for getting a written clarification on the contract language."

12 days of?!?! Aside from vacation? No wonder you guys want an arbitrator and Telus doesn't. They'd probably give you an additional 12. I know of no company on the planet with this type of benefit.

Follow up:
Is anyone authorized in TELUS to give a straight answer in writting?

WWood (Whacky Woodie)& themonster and all you other no beings. As I stated...."QUOTE"

Note before you wanabees jump in, i.e. “whacky woody” "and in this case the themonster ot is "imposter"or the other misinformed who are now working for TELUS as SCAB’s.

• Note you are not qualified or authorized to provide a company position.
• One can only guess that you are only in it for the money as your generous company pension plan is insufficient in your golden years.
• Or that you get a great sense of satisfaction by taking work away from honest workers who have waited for close to five years and are being denied a negotiated contract and are now locked out.
• It does not seem to bother you that you are taken food out of the mouths of the families who are the true working force they call TELUS.

Nuff said concerning the wanabees wanting to waste my time. It is much to important for me to spend it on a bunch of wanabees interpitations of facts or that are jealousy of those who have worked in a life time career as team players... The wanabees can not even read or take the time to comprehend who the questions are intended for.

Now back to the meat and potataoes. Is there any real authorized TELUS players out there that have some clout and brains to state in writting answers to the questions being asked?

Questions:
1. For agreeing to this non negotiated company contract we would be getting a generous bonus of say $20,000 which would be taxable at a minimum of 30% thus taking it down to $14,000

2. In the non negotiated company proposed contract they say the will pay us for giving back 9 ATO’s i.e. $230 per day x 9 days = $2,070 or for say $2070 x 4 years = $8,280 (remember we already paid the income tax on this already.) This now takes the gracious bonus down to $14,000 - $8,280 = $5,880. If we have to pay back any of these monies is the company going to reimburse for the tax paid on it with interest?

3. What a bonus. That works out to $5.880 / 4 years or $1,470 a year or $114.16 per month. Sure does not appear the cash load promised to the working force by the corporate gurus.

4. As the working force is an average age of over 50 where does the pension benefits of working the last 4½ years with out a raise come in? Also figure into the picture those employees that will turn age 55 in the next four years and may also elect early retirement? Where do they stand?

5. By the way what is the projected number of full time telus employees by the end of 2009?

T = telephone
E = employees
L = living
U = under
S = stress

*clapping* bravo Dpro! Now that is meat & potatoes. :o)

themonster:

I guess you did not understand the sixteen days reduced to 12 ATO days. They were given to us instead of taking the pay increase Hugh Ladner, the company and the TWU had already agreed to.

If you are so noble why don't you give the company back 12 or better yet sixteen days of your scab pay.

Keep slaving all you wanabees and don't worry we will be back to fix all of your goof ups.

TWU forever

labourtalk.ca

I have only one request to all of you who say you are going to switch to Sprint Canada, a.k.a. Rogers, PLEASE DON'T. I have been royally screwed by them twice trying to set up service in a seniors residence for my elderly mother. They wouldn't know "service", a.k.a. customer care, if it came up and bit them on the ass.