If you add Basi-Virk to Sponsorship what you are basically doing is firing a plutonium core being at extremely high pressure into a mass of uranium. The result? More or less complete destruction of everything in sight, and substantial fallout afterwards.

We came this way once before, in September of 1984. Public revulsion over grotesque, but in hindsight rather routine Liberal patronage caused a virtual bloodless revolution, in which the eternal natural governing parts was reduced to less than forty seats and, more importantly, less than 39% of the nationwide popular vote. And more important still, their Quebec fortress was completely overrun.

Had the Conservatives and the NDP used their heads during the next few years, this political realignment might have been made permanent. But ideological differences made even the most elementary strategic cooperation between rivals impossible, no discussions or meetings of any kind were ever permitted by either Mulroney or Broadbent, and the Liberals were given the time to recover.

Here then is the first real opportunity since 1984 to bring a powerful enough level of public distaste and aversion to bear, sufficient to break the Liberal electoral lock. It will be interesting to see if Layton and Harper have learned the lessons that Mulroney and Broadbent were not prepared to even think about.

One great missed opportunity here is that Carole James has been ordered by Gerry Scott not to mention federal issues such as Sponsorship. It's an incredibly stupid and very costly mistake, but it comes straight of the Gerry Scott playbook, going back to 1986 when his counsel of silence and inaction completely liquidated the electoral prospects of Bob Skelly (remember him anyone?).

pump it up tieleman! you may be the best spindoctor i've ever seen.

sirjohna:

This isn't a big deal right? Just making something out of nothing?

It's total corruption and to say otherwise just displays complete ignorance on your part.

Are you that blinded and foolish to think this is nothing? I enjoy reading good arguements about differing political opinions, but to say this is nothing is lunacy.

I guess that Hitler thing in the 40's was blown out of proportion too?

sugar; i concede that this may seen like 'something' if you believe the distortions that tieleman is providing, but this guy is a complete joke when it comes to objectivity. he is stumped only by schreck.

by the way sugar, you guys really should stop referencing nazi germany. it makes you sound like complete fools.

Keep going, Bill Thieleman. It's music to my ears, after waiting so damn long for the slightest follow-on from the historic 28 December 2003 RCMP raids, which I agree are HUGE in their significance.

Such a lengthy protective silence could never have happened -- nor could active smear campaigns based on lies ever happen -- if British Columbia had a free press. (Free, yes, to those who own one.)

Anybody know what the recourse is, if a newspaper such as Vancouver Sun, has perpetrated a series of lies for the purpose of advancement or gain?

Stated another way: isn't a newspaper an entity (just like other citizens) answerable in court for public mischief or harm done to a population?

You might not think I'm seriously asking. But I am. I'm convinced that the issue Bill Thieleman writes about here, is an enormous threat. If we continue to ignore it, it will not go away ... it only grows bigger.

That's a very good question BC Mary... on the legality of a newspaper perpetrating lies out of self-interest and gain?

And Sugar makes a good point not foolish at all... there were steps that led up to 1939, it didn't happen in a vacuam and it didn't happen overnight.

I think this scandal has more to do with the Federal than Provincial Liberals.

The judge most likely would have released the information if he though the corruption ran so deep that it effected a parties ability to govern.

Bill Tieleman is a former NDP communications strategist, otherwise know as a spinmaster. The tyee is now officially treading a fine line between subjective reporting and propaganda.

This story reminds me of Watergate and the Nixon administration.
The news of the bungled break in came out months before the election that re-elected "Tricky" in '74
Essentially, the Washington Post was about the only media outlet investigating the story and drawing links between the burglars
and the Republican Party, and Nixon's re-election campaign. The rest of the U.S. media not only ignored the story but largely vilified Woodward and Bernstein as reporters out to smear Republicans for the benefit of the Democrats. Of course, post-election, the Watergate scandal broke wide open, vindicating the Post, and the rest is history.
We know history repeats itself. Who knows how far this Liberal scandal will reach, post election. We may even get an opportunity to see
B.C.'s recall legislation be used to accomplish
something. Picture: total recall of a discredited Campbell gov't! Just an extravagant fantasy?

JIm, I'd agree with you except the principals involved worked for the provincial government and their other ties tend toward people in the provincial government. Plus the privatizations at the centre of the thing were part of the provincial domain.

As for Nazi Germany, many of us feel the same way when we hear Cuba and North Korea tossed around. Hello Lysiane Gagnon.

The difference between Watergate and the BC Legislature raid is that we don't have a Bernstein and Woodward. I thought that we didn't want't gambling in Vancouver and that the only way we were going to accept a tunnel under Cambie was to have it bored from underneath. The technique that seems to be a BC specialty is to drag things on and on so by the time something does happen nobody cares anymore. This technique was used to tear down the Georgia Medical Building, the old Hotel Vancouver and Eaton's. By the time the Cambie Street merchants lose their shirts and the scandal details of the Legislature Raid are released we will all be excited about the olympics and won't give a damn.

Now that Watergate has been mentioned in passing, I seem to recall that most of Nixon's
henchmen in the Whitehouse were Advertising
types from California. Didn't the top man
of the Everest group mention some links to BC
at the Gomrey hearings?

frank; 'as for nazi germany': it had absolutely nothing to do with any of this stuff. this is canada, and by referring so flippantly to hitler you hurt your own cause, as readers that are even somewhat rational will dismiss your remarks immediately, as they do with coyote the freak and b.c.mary.

Where BC is similar to 1930's Germany is in the aura of repression...what was book burning, thought control, and regimentation then is now the territory inhabited and controlled by a dictatorial media. Just as at that time the assaults on workers rights, on civil liberties, on unions, in essence removing all power from the hands of the German people were all preliminary steps to the rise and ultimate reign of fascism.

lynn; you sound like an idiot.

Questions I am stunned to have NOT heard in this campaign:

"What about the obvious corruption at the heart of your government, Mr. Campbell? Your Finance Minister and your Education Minister have both resigned at the pinnacle of their political careers. A collection of their political aides, family members and former colleagues are charged with multiple criminal offences or named in documents that pertain to those offences. All these goings-on are related to the burned-in image of police officers hauling dozens of boxes of material out the doors and down the stairs that lead to your offices, Mr. Campbell. These materials relate to a massive give-away of public assets - BC Rail - and a huge broken promise. What's going on inside your government Mr. Campbell, and if you don't know, why don't you know? Are there drug dealers there? Influence peddlers there? Money launders? These things have all been suggested by the charges that have been laid. Every other incident of this nature in BC political history has prompted long and furious public debate well in advance of any trial. The Federal Government has launched the Gomery Inquiry into the sponsorship scandal well in advance of the related trials. Why no honesty and openness here, Mr. Campbell? Why no accountability? Why no Public Inquiry? Why no willingness to get to the bottom of the corruption eating the heart of your government? The people deserve to know what's going on. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Especially here in BC."

Ragardless of the "spin", aren`t there probably a lot of taxpaying voters out here that deserve to know what was going on in regards to the raids in the legislature, and connections, if any to the federal sponsorship scandal. As always, the only thing that counts is the truth, and we seem to be having a hard time to obtain it. From what we do know, I suspect it is a safe bet to say that the sposorship scandal didn`t magically stop at the BC/Alberta border. Keep digging Tieleman!

Now, there's a knock out punch, Five4fighting...

why are you guys not organizing and demonstrating on the steps of the court houses? Nothing gets the attention like a good, well attended rally. Sometimes that is the only way to keep things in the news!

sirjohna:

I made the comment about Hitler only so you can see how baltantly stupid your comments are regarding this matter.

Your virtually ignore the concerns about the Leg raids? How come? Are 54fightings questions and concerns "left wing radical banter"?

Admit some concern sirjohna. If you don't blurt out your Fiberal crap and acknowledge some concern, why should we?

The comment wasn't made to compare the two, but to see if you were that blinded by allegiance.

sirjohna isn't concerned with mere legal matters. That's for the little people.

By the way, new poll today has Lib. 45%, NDP 40% Green 12% with a 4% plus/minus.

http://mustelgroup.com/press.html

The problem with most privatisations is valuable public assests are turned over to private intrests(not necessarily Canadian) for not very much money. It usually doesn't lead to a better,lower cost product or provide more jobs.

Before privatisation Air Canada was 100% Canadian, was run by Canadians and had very few years it lost money. After privatisation, it is not owned by Canadians, they hired Americans from the failed Continental Airlines to run it and it wallows in red ink, only recently emerging out of bancrupcy protection.

"Bill Tieleman is a former NDP communications strategist, otherwise know as a spinmaster. The tyee is now officially treading a fine line between subjective reporting and propaganda."

JIm, I know Tielman's history with the NDP, but what in Tielman's story above is propaganda? He sums up the case against Bornman, ask a few important questions (that the rest of the media doesn't seem to be asking) and quotes some other media sources. Seems straight forward to me.

By the way, new poll today has Lib. 45%, NDP 40% Green 12% with a 4% plus/minus.

No wonder the Liberals have started campaigning like their political lives depend on it.

My advice to municipalities and cities across the province: Get on the radio (preferably CKNW) and list off what it is your community desperately needs (*see Surrey's mayor Doug McCallum's interview yesterday) and presto — the very next day the Liberals will be on your door step delivering.

*I'm not saying Surrey doesn't need another hospital, the timing of the announcement is a little suspect, given how hotly contested race is there right now.

I for one cannot believe how little attention this story is generating in the middle of an election campaign. Leaves little doubt whose side the mainstream media is on.

"Lib. 45%, NDP 40% Green 12%"

And with liberal support concentrated on the north shore and in the fraser valley I would say this looks very good for the NDP who did form a majority with only 39% 10 years ago.

With this ridiculous first-past-the-post system either side could win 60 seats <:))>

sirjohn, I was referencing a column by Gagnon yesterday that said Canada and North Korea and Cuba had the same health system. One would also need a lot of hands to count the number of times on this site Cuba, NK and the old Soviet Union have been referenced in regards to the NDP. Yet I don't believe Glen Clark was responsible for the deaths of millions of "kulaks". I'm just pointing out that before anyone pretends to be Sam the Eagle from the Muppet Show, ("This is an outrage!") it helps to remember that neither side is blameless.

Feeling vindicated BC Mary?

Many of us know here, at least, what a bunch of gangsters, and fascists, this entire Neoconservative Fiberal crew is, infecting even and infected in turn by the Federal party no less. They are being stirred and emboldened by the rising tide of Neoconservative reliance "the system" is showing, and the Big Media acquiesence. Ditto Deutschland Uber Alles.

Right on in your comments about the rise of fascism, Lynn. If we don't get a handle on this crew, these Brownshirt buddies of theirs here will suddenly all look less silly and harmless, and a whole lot more dangerous. They thought they were a joke in Nazi Germany until it was too late.

They were though to be mere "clowns" and "buffoons" goosestepping about, drinking beer and singing anti-jewish and anti-communist songs,like our current skinheads, until with the help of Big Money which had become frightened at the power of Unions and Communists, they were suddenly something more intimidating

It must never be allowed to happen again.

verso, I agree that this story isn't that outrageous, but I'm always a little skeptical when Bill writes a column. I have never seen an objective view from him, as you must agree.

I have never seen an objective view from him, as you must agree.

JIm, I wouldn't say never, but I think it's common knowledge which angle Bill comes from.

What is non-objective about a recitation of matters of factual legal record?

And aside from that aspect of it what's the red herring of "objectivity" doing swimming here? Hasn't objectivity been shown for the "he said, she said" dead fish it is? Along the lines of "some say earth is round though opinions differ"? Objectivity is the buzzword by which the neo-right in Amurrka has been able to emasculate the press. You raising that spectre here, Jim, makes me tend to think you're more interested in muzzling opposition than in airing factual records.

Sirjohna and Jim, Tell the truth are you Liberal party staffers just making stuff up.
LOL, It just gets better everyday, did you hear about the guy from Prince George who was a party staffer with Shirley Bond calling the CKNW radio debate, just like they had the staffer from Surrey a couple of months ago fielding Gordo a softball. And then Gordo's response is very telling, I see no problem with this, WHAT , see you see no problem with some paid guy to call and basically commit fraud on the air waves. Anyway just wondering Jim what is it that scares you so much about someone like Bill Tieleman, please tell us what is incorrect or spin regarding this story. The truth is hard to swallow if you have not tasted it for some time, we hare a army of right wing media in BC that is embedded with the Liberals.

I love Bill and The Tyee, lets get this out folks, start emailing every media outlet.
And don't get side tracked by party staffers talking about Nazis, we already know Gordo
Is a dictator.

JIm (way upthread) said:

"I think this scandal has more to do with the Federal than Provincial Liberals."

To which, someone with a heavy Scottish accent might respond 'Preeeeecisely!

All of which would be ironic in the extreme if the BC LINO's ultimately get whacked, not for being exposed as the neocons that they are, but rather because, in the end, enough people are fooled into believing that they are the liberals they aren't.

Wonderful reporting, Bill.

I had forgotton just how thick the cast of characters already is in this story.

Thanks for reminding me.

They really are quite comical, on one level, this crew of verso, the Spinnette (in current drag) and Jim. Having an exchange as though it were not "...common knowledge which angle..." this troop works for, that they are some models of "objectivity", like say a Norman Spector, or any number of National Post columnists.

Tres amusante.

You have nothing to discredit the message, so you focus on the messenger.

You know the perspective of this site when you come here, rightist nutcases, then feign shock and surprise when that is precisely what you find. You are all doing a stand up comedy routine, only expect that we should take you seriously.

Your Fiberals are not only up to their armpits in lies and broken promises, but you are standing up to your lower lips in a pool filled with your own criminal shit, expecting that we all should not make waves.

"Okay, coffee breaks over, everybody in the Fiberal cess pit stand on your heads."

sir johna: I guess it may be somewhat better to sound like an idiot than to be one so I'll take the slight edge I have over you, as meagre as it may be.

I have no intention of tempering my remarks about fascism and the growing similarities to be found under parts of the world now reeling under neo-con rule, including this province. In Germany, most people went about their lives, quite normally, some even calling it the best time of their lives...because fascism's real weapon is to intimidate into silence. To threaten their most vulnerable targets that further losses will incur if they speak out. So the victims become conveniently invisible, non-existent, and just as it did in Germany, the cloak of normality wraps around everyday existence... all appears as normal and for the privileged ones indeed it is... for those who have become invisible it is a whole other reality.

So to keep us quiet, we must not know. To keep us powerless, at their mercy, we must not know. To keep us from controlling our own destiny, we must not know...that's the slick lying face of fascism that confronts us today. THEY know and we don't.

And I'll turn this back to the raid on the legislature now, though it is all the same thing....

Coyote with all respect, I'm not a Liberal supporter, centre-left actually. If you look at my posting history here, more times than not I'm come to the defense of the columnists at the Tyee and I'm sympathetic to their views. I'd hardly call a remark about Tielman's leanings attacking the messenger. I doubt he would disagree with me.

Never thought I'd see me called out with Binette or JIm. C'est la vie.

It's Dohm I'm angriest at. He's deliberately shielding information that the citizens require in order to make a fully informed decision.

Gomery has acknowledged that there is a balance to be struck around the issue of someone being able to get a fair trial and the public's right to have the information before them.

Dohm seems to be simply slamming the door and telling us all to take a hike and have a nice piece of cake while we're at it.

Once it's all out and we are finally allowed to know, if that day ever indeed comes, I would be in favour of someone formally looking into the connections between Dohm and the Liberals.

And you are so right. That is precisely the intent of their machinations here; to try and force Tyee to include their viewpoint into the article mix, in a transparent enough attempt to outflank the democratic environment and opinion here. Which will fail of course, for it is obvious enough and the times are changing again-, but failing that, they will be content with disrupting debate and critical examination of the Fiberal record, and the advancement of alternative progressive viewpoints.

It will all fail, of course though, because there is a profound shift in the political environment underway, obvious here in the growth of Tyee's popularity-, which is what really frightens this brownshirt element. There is a new clash of wills already coming into motion, that will clearly produce a different legislature in which their power will be diminished, or made more complicated to exercise, at the very least.

But more than that, it seems to me, an even larger and more significant environment is struggling to emerge, amongst various elements of the working class, NGOs, the poor and various other movements of the people to get on top of the real power issues here-, and create a socially and economically transformative force.

It's that potential that really has them spooked and Campbell looking like a frightened and desparate deer caught in the headlights, along with that ruling class element that stands behind him with their cash and their influence.

Interesting times, indeed. My main worry over the short haul is, the backbone and competence of the NDP-, that they will measure up. Their track record has not been great to here.

I hope I am wrong. We shall see.

If they fail the expectations of people this time, I will NOT vote for them again. I will vote Green instead next time, or some other more progressive movement of the people.

For me, this is their last kick at the can.

Verso,

My most sincere apology. I was too quick off the mark and made an error in judgement. I hope you will accept it.

Perhaps I'm getting a little punch drunk with all these dastardly brownshirts about. :-)

"A little bird keeps pecking on my ear, but when I turn around, he's never there..." (Cauliflower McPug)

Regards.

I've got a sudden hankering for some popcorn, and maybe a wee glass o' sherry. Night all.

No worries, apology accepted.

Recall how the media was all over Glen Clark's
"Wood-deck-gate", and held on to it like a pit bull. What a successful media campaign that was. Tell me you too didn't believe Clark guilty of criminality?I sure did. He was tried and convicted in the media long before the court case was over.
Compare that overblown campaign to the underwhelming attention being paid to the Leg raid scandal, which could end up having criminal Liberal tentacles leading far and wide, involving much more serious concerns than
bargain priced decks.
What a disgraceful media we have.
P.S. I'm no fan of Clark, never was, and am glad to see him gone from politics (...well, maybe the media accomplished some good afterall!)

Today's testimony before the Gomery Enquiry touched again upon envelopes stuffed with cash, being passed to the Liberal Party campaign workers.

The amount under discussion today was $200,000. And I don't see how the Liberals could lay hands upon that much cash without raising eyebrows. So did it come from banks? Or not.

Logic tells us that this wasn't a one-off. It wasn't done only in one province. And honest to God, can we cling to the fading hope that it was merely taxpayers' money and not the proceeds of Organized Crime?

Maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe it's far worse for the governing parties to abuse taxpayers' money. But I think there's something worse.

If our governments are using crime money to win elections, then it means that this great country (in actual fact)is being governed by Organized Crime. Because crooks wouldn't be distributing thick envelopes of cash as saintly donations. Crooks expect payback. They'd want things done their way. We probably wouldn't like it, if we knew.

This is where the story becomes calamitous. We're left waiting for Dohm, waiting for one, two, three elections, waiting for a free press, waiting for a Woodward & Bernstein ...

We're in deep trouble and we haven't begun to find out how bad it is. Nothing whatever has been done to fix it.

lynn, coyote; you give good blather.

here's the scoop guys: (listen up tieleman)
collins and clark were dealing drugs in the basement of the leg, but when their suppliers,(basi and virk), got caught they ran scared. most of the cabinet was partaking, which explains why dejong is always so nervous and sweaty, and coleman can't lose any weight (dratted munchies). gordo was only involved b/c he wasn't allowed to drink anymore for fear of reprisals from MADD, and he soon realized that he enjoyed nothing more than a big fat presto log every once in a while before going home to the wife. their best customer of all was joy macphail, how else could anyone laugh like that, and geoff plant tried it once but he didn't inhale.

Dear sirj; The media is not the proper place for this testimony.

Even if you were involved you have a positive duty to take this information straight (no pun intended) to the police.

I'm sure that you could negotiate the standard rat deal, and go free in exchange for putting your superiours in the frame. But make sure you lawyer up before you turn yourselves in.

sirjohna,you really have to be one big asshole,you are totaly blind to be sure.
Ed

could be ed, but it takes one to know one.

Hey Coyote,

I feel your pain re NDP competance. I hope they will be heroic in victory. But remember they're rebuilding. No one actually could have predicted they'd be so close in the polls. There will be growing pains, but Ms. James is winning over people in all parts of the province. Whether it will be enough or not, we can only hope.

I have a question for you Tyee historians. Are some of these negative postings coming from the same person with different names? Could someone shed a little light on this.

Thanks for the great article Bill Tieleman. Miss you at the Straight.

Sirj finally managed to get the podium ... and has no worries about being sued for slander, eh?

Dear jazz; The answer to your question is not clear. I see four possibilities.

1. A case of split personality- several people sharing one personality.

2. A classic case of multiple identities. Hotmail apparently will give you as many as you want, and other providers as well.

3. Somebody in an office with several computers, who can hop from chair to chair giggling and muttering all day long and still get paid for it.

4. An outbreak of contageous misspellitis. None of them has any luck distinguishing plurals from possessives.

Maybe we should contact The Center for Disease Control.

Ya think?

A welcome laugh from ... of all places ... a U.S. newspaper, the Seattle Post Intelligencer.

Seems that their columnist, Joel Connelly, has found out about B.C.'s Golden Decade and says that Mr Floatie's gold looks a lot like poop ... and, who knew? ... there is a B.C. group called People Opposed to Outflow Pollution, or P.O.O.P.

Not sure who their mascot is, but I suspect it's sirj. Go, sirj. Um er ... no, don't go ... not here! No-o-ooooo!!! Bad sirj.

Jazz, the only people who can correctly answer your question are several Tyee staff and the authors of the negative pieces.

But given the drivel that passes as right-wing criticism here, I suspect there are linkages between those Nattering Nabobs of Negativism.

What are the odds of coming across mad-dogs like that in a grouping anywhere else in the world other than perhaps around fresh road kill?

It would appear few other right-wingers will post here anymore lest they be tarred with the same toilet brush as sirjohna, Binney or JIm and crew.

Definitely someone should contact Disease Control, Bailey. (Chuckling to self.)

Certainly, the three most obnoxious ones, I think, sirj, Spinny Binny, and The Punisher (who seems to have been temporarily assigned to the Caymans) are all one and the same, Binnette. Easy enough done, if you are really into sowing confusion and chaos, as this charmer is. (The evidence, to me, is the same essential voice and low level of understanding and articulation skills, and simply atrocious grammar and spelling. I mean, these three are knuckle draggers. Jim and sdgreen are a qualitatively different pair, of which sdgreen is definitely the more politically developed and skilled. Jim runs the wilderness border area somewhere between sdgreen and the Spinny Trio.)

And Mary, loved your piece immediately above. As I've already indicated to you, I agree with your analysis and conclusion on the essential "criminal nature" of "the system". And we ARE in a period where they are being emboldened by neoconservative encouragement of ruling class greed, such that the essential criminality of the system is escalating and becoming more obvious, on a number of fronts.

Keep investigating and hammering away, good woman.

Again, the same as goes with the criminality issue I've spoken to above. This Big Corporate Media too has been encouraged by the same neoconservative action programme coming out of the power centres of the ruling class, and are scarcely even attempting at all anymore to hold themselves to any kinds of standards of balance in viewpoints or objectivity of analysis. They are in full blown "propaganidist" mode.

And while I was not a big fan of Glen Clark either, it became most obvious that was the direction the Corporate Media was headed, around the issue of the mickey mouse sundeck issue. (There were earlier signs even going back to Harcourt, but relatively, he had a honeymoon. And even he had to resign, over something that happened thirty years before.)

All of which has been assisted by this tendency of the NDP to fall all over itself, apologizing for itself, and playing the "suck up to the system" game. "Be nice! Don't be controversiual!" It's like playing dead for a bear that has already begun to munch on you for a snack: At that point, you might as well get up and start fighting for your life as best you can anyway. But no, they continue, time and again, to just lay there and accept their fate.

The other problem, of course, that makes them lack confidence in doing that, is that the NDP has not given enough emphasis, openly and brazenly, to building the popular "issues" movements of the people, and has used the labour movement for its own narrow electoral political ends, rather than encouraging its independant development as a fighting movement, capable of independantly defending the working class interest. With the result, that there is nothing there on the streets to back them up, when they really need it, and are trying to defend the "people's interests". (Assuming that is the intent, of course, and not just building individual political careers.)

So when push comes to shove, they invariably have no choice but to fold, because there is nothing out there that can counter the media and cut through the propaganda bullshit, in quite the same way that large numbers of people in motion can.

It's past time for labour and the broader left, the NDP and the various NGO progressive movements to start viewing politics and the political process in quite a different way. It is time for moving over to a more offensive minded building of this "extra-parliamentary front", and the evolution of a more "combative" style and strategy. (And that is NOT an argument for engaging in widespread and/or senseless violence.There is a subtle but important distinction that has to be made.)

We keep lying down like this whenever we are attacked by the bear, he's soon going to have his meal finished, and we will only be the indigestion aftermath in the belly of the beast, and the goosy-loosy pile black pile on the trail.

Has Bill Tieleman been permanently removed from the Straight???

Budd, I think he's writing weekly for 24 hrs now. A step down, IMO. If you'd rather not pick up the rag, I believe you can read his column on the 24 hrs website.

You rant about the lies, propaganda,and favourtism of the one sided media then you back Bill Tieleman. I see a bunch of hypocrites to the worst degree.

Anyone who does not agree with YOU is the same person. Anyone who isn't a hard core socailist is a Liberal staffer. If there is a media report that isn't exactly what YOU want it's propaganda. If there is a poll result that YOU don't agree with it's biased. If YOU agree with a media report it's true. Why does something have to be exactly the way YOU see it for it to be right. You are a bunch of close minded hypocrites.

I have the same essential view of the media as I do the class lines; no real balance or objectivity is possible or to be expected along it. The best that is possible is "objectivity" within class viewpoints.

You, on the other hand Jim, either live with your illusions or, more likely, only feign surprise.

I understand capitalism very well, its classes, minimalist system of democracy, more bullshit than real, and its extensive ruling class controlled propaganda network, designed as part of its "public opinion" and "control" management system.

No surprise here to me. Nor to you I expect either, not really.

Coyote you understand the ideological impacts of capitalism on the ideological goals of the left, but that is about it. You use capitalism as the anti-christ to your ideological view point. This word has now become a symbol that the left can rally around.

Capitalism for the most part is your neighbor opening up the local store. That wood worker who makes his own furniture for export. That is capitalism. Most businesses are small, most are run by very hard working people, and most succeed becasue the owner was willing to take exceptional risks combined with dedication that few on the left ever see.

You say you know a lot about capitalism, but from your posts I don't think you do.

I'm not in favour of big business per say, but i'm not agianst them either. The only businesses that can afford unions, your saviour, are the massive multi nationals that you hate so much. If you drive big business out of our province you are driving the high paying unionized jobs away as well. This I do not understand.

In regards to Bornman's affilliation with Pilothouse Public Affairs...there is one interesting character there, that is rarely mentioned. He was on their website up until recently but doesn't appear to be mentioned on their new website under development.

He is the office manager for Pilothouse, Larry Thompson. He coordinates client research and acts as the corporation's Controller. Thompson has two decades of experience in Canada's Armed Forces, primarily as a researcher and administrator for Canadian Military Intelligence. He also served as an Assistant Military Attache in Moscow during the critical last years of the Soviet Union.

I agree with Banquos ghost in his questioning of Dohm's refusal to release information. Another question surrounds the mandate of the young Liberals.

Come on folks, stop upsetting Jim, I won't sleep tonight. You see Jim to deny that 99% of our media is right wing means your either embedded with the status quo or your totally indoctrinated into the black and white society's ways of looking at things. When you look past the CKNW liberal ad network or CANWEST cheerleading you will see that many people have suffered under Gordo, We all know the long list of brutal cuts were not necessary, the NDP left a 1.5 billion surplus that Gordo denied so he could justify the 2 billion elitist tax grad and corp. tax grab. The vast majority is worst of than 4 yrs ago, its funny that only in places like the Tyee do you get real info. But the sad fact is Jim we want the same thing, a progressive province that we are proud to live in. You must admit that this forum is about the only place you get alternative views of any kind.

I digress , hey folks lets get busy, Liberals are falling in the polls. 45% vs NDP 40% that’s nothing when you consider the plus minus 4% error margin and the concentrated Liberal support on the North Shore and west end. I see an upset in the books.

1. Help your local NAP candidate. Elections are won riding by riding

2. Make a financial contribution. The Liberals have raised over $6 million - most of it from the biggest corporations. But Carole and the NAP depend on ordinary British Columbians.

3. Help get the word out. We need to reach out to our friends, neighbors and co-workers and let them know how important this election is. Whether it's sending an e-card or speaking out to local media, we need to do everything we can.

I know I don't want another four years of heartless cuts and a government that doesn't listen. Come May 17th, I want to feel like I gave everything I could to stop the Campbell Liberals and elect New Democrats. This will be an historic election and you have a chance to be a part of it.

Okay not NAP, NDP, spell check sometimes is not the answer.

B.C. might be able to see its own troubles reflected in the Gomery Enquiry. I've often wondered how the B.C. Liberals could possibly have restrained themselves from literally picking money off trees, very possibly, the Organized Crime tree with its $6 Billion a year free-floating cash. Could this be how it works:

Today's testimony in Montreal before Judge Gomery introduces a mysterious character named Joe Morselli, “the real boss,” who Liberal staffers were advised not to antagonize.

Morselli was a close friend of the former public works minister (Alfonso Gagliano), and although he had no official title, he functioned as fundraiser on behalf of the Liberal Party. They said Morselli was The Boss.

Jean Brault (already under indictment) has testified that Mr. Morselli asked him in 2001 to place a friend, Beryl Wajsman on the Groupaction payroll. Brault said he refused, but that he agreed to provide Wajsman with $5,000 in cash a month. Cash.

Former Director-General Dezainde also said that Mr. Gagliano, who was the party's top political organizer for Quebec, had told him that if he had any “needs” he should talk either to Mr. Morselli or to Gagliano's chief of staff. He said he understood that the minister was alluding to financial needs.

Mr. Dezainde also discovered that the Quebec wing had racked up tens of thousands of dollars in its accounts payable, including $48,000 in unpaid rent. The party's financial officers “were swamped with calls from unpaid suppliers.”

So he got in touch with Mr. Morselli, mindful of Mr. Gagliano's advice. He was told by Mr. Morselli to send him the bills “so he can determine what can be paid, and when.”

“Not only you didn't know where the money came from but you no longer had the ability to manage your organization. So what's the point of being there?” Mr. Dezainde said. The two men quarreled, with Morelli concluding "This is war!" And Desainde, fearing for his life, began arranging for personal protection.

Mr. Dezainde told the inquiry: “Have you ever seen the Twilight Zone TV series? It was like that.” [Excerpts from Globe & Mail, 11 May]

Could Spiderman's Web of Intrigue be happening in British Columbia, too, just like this?

i see the lefties have had much fun in my absence today with their almost uninterrupted blather blather blather. haven't really had time to read through them, as someone has to work to keep these guys on the welfare rolls, but let's take a guess at the contents.
did they mention fascists, capitalist pigs, conspiracies, cuba, brownshirts, oppression, nazis, socialism, propaganda, wealth, american-style health care, or universality?
just as i thought, haven't missed a thing.

JIm, regarding your back-to-back postings today in which you seemed to be ranting at someone about conspiracies and propaganda and hard-core socialists.

Was that meant to be self-inflicted?

Interesting discussion on my article on Erik Bornman - thanks to those who made kind comments.

I have indeed left the Georgia Straight to write for 24 hours every Tuesday and, through the election, every Friday also. I will also now be writing for the Tyee.

As to my own leanings, I've never made any secret whatsoever of my support for the NDP or left causes, though it is sometimes critical and questioning support.

I have, however, always tried to do two important things: be fair and be factually informative.

Those who wish to criticize my writing should point out errors rather than point out the obvious.

Lastly, on objectivity, I quote the late, great Hunter S. Thompson, who said:

"With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results and stock market quotations, there is no such thing as 'objective journalism.' The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.

- Hunter S. Thompson in "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 1972"

JIm, just wanted to point out that a person being able to run a little business is not what most of us call modern "capitalism". That same business could have been run under the system of mercantilism which pre-dates capitalism. Obviously some think all business is, and always has been, capitalism. I don't. We had businesses even in the age of feudalism. Simple trade, selling an item for more than you paid for it, does not encompass what we view as modern capitalism.

What I consider to be "capitalism" is control of the means of production. Quite different from trade.

So to use your example, a guy opening a store, buying inventory and then standing behind the counter selling it for more than he paid is hardly capitalism.

A guy producing furniture on his own and selling it is simply that. Now if he was to instead own the tools and material inputs and resultant product of a number of people working for wages, I would say that's more like capitalism.

You've mentioned before a fictional small businessman working a 70 hour week. That's not capitalism. He shouldn't be working at all. "Capital" is the key part of capitalism. To be a successful capitalist he should own the means of production and take a profit, not from performing any actual work but instead from simply being the owner of the production itself. If he's working a 70 hour week he has more in common with "workers" than he does the capitalist class where the idea is for others to perform the actual labour, you simply own the inputs and therefore the outputs and take your profit from that. Under capitalism, labour is simpyly part of the production, an input that is rented.

frank says 'a person being able to run a little business is not what most of us call modern "capitalism". That same business could have been run under the system of mercantilism which pre-dates capitalism. Obviously some think all business is, and always has been, capitalism. I don't. We had businesses even in the age of feudalism.' wow! unbelievably ridiculous. lmao.

frankie boy; mercantilism was an economic system whereby the imperialist nation favoured their colonies in trade relationships. mercantilism in canada died in 1846 when britain repealed the corn laws and moved to a system of free trade in order to buy their goods more cheaply from european countries.
for god's sake man, if you're going to start throwing big words around here please have the common sense to understand what they mean.

Dear sirj;

Several times now you've appended the term Imao immediately after you make an unsupported assertion. What does that mean?

Is it a noise you make when you're pleased with yourself?

Is it the contribution of your cat to the discussion? A misspelled miao?

Are you claiming to be the reincarnation of a deceased Chinese revolutionary leader?

What?

Bill Tieleman, I presume, posted yesterday:

"I have indeed left the Georgia Straight ..."

Too bad, I will miss your columns there, and who knows how long 24 Hours, Metro and Dose can keep on paying middle aged men $8 per hour to stand on downtown street corners passing out free papers.

As for the Hunter Thompson quote, there is undoubtedly somme truth to it, but when it becomes an excuse for extremely biased and intellectually dishonest writing, I have to say it's time for journalism professors and practitioners alike to revisit the objectivity theme.

Tell me Bill, does it make you comfortable to know that hundreds of thousands of people who are concerned about education are getting their "news" written for them by someone like the Vancouver Sun's Janet Steffenhagen, whose anti-teacher bias is obvious to those who look for such things, but may not be obvious to more trusting citizens? If you're Okay with Steffenhagen's pieces, what about Pamela Fayerman's Fraser Inst driven pieces on health issues? Is that news and information? Or does it cross the line into outright disinformation?

Something has gone horribly wrong. JIm-BOb posted this one two days ago:

"I think this scandal has more to do with the Federal than Provincial Liberals."

On this point, I think JIm-BOb is actually quite right. I tried an N-weapon metaphor to describe the greater national devastation that Basi-Virk, combined with Sponsorship, promises to deliver.

But it just hasn't sunk in yet with the Eastern reporters that what we have here is drug money financing part of the PM's leadership drive. How the CBC Liberals are planning to manage that news once it's news and no longer a suspicion I really don't know.

sirjohn, yes, Capitalism replaced Mercantilism. I'll drop the use of the word so its not confusing.

Merchants who trade or workers who sell what they produce have been with us for thousands of years. Therefore how could it be part of capitalism if capitalism hadn't been invented yet?

The point, in reference to JIm's comment, stands unless you intend to prove no one engaged in trade prior to Adam Smith.

sirjohna, want some positive BC news from a newspaper?
Snag a copy of today's Globe&Mail.

It has a great article on the sudden surge in popularity and respect for Carole James that appears based at least partially on her thumping of Campbell in the first leaders debate.

If that doesn't make your day, lower your eyes a bit down the page. and read the piece on Gregor Robertson. You know, the very successful businessman[I][U] who is anticipated to win in Vancouver-Fairview for the NDP.

So the best newspaper in Canada calls Robertson a "star candidate" with strong business credentials, yet there you are still trying to explain to the world why business and the NDP don't mix.

I think what you meant to say was oil and water or Liberals and truth.

frank; obviously you still don't understand but i gave it a shot anyway.
allan; next you'll be asking me to read the toronto star, which is almost as left as the tyee.

understand what? You didn't put forward anything.

Funnily enough the G&M is a conservative paper. Not as right-wing as the Calgary Sun since it does employ a couple of centre-left writers but most of its writers and certainly Greenspon himself, are on the right.

And Holy Old Ratzinger, G&M are sure "on the right" today. You'd have thought Gordo himself wrote today's editorial.

I used up a perfectly good Saturday morning hurling invective at them (newsroom@globeandmail.ca) and still itch to drop-kick that editor. Every tired lie, every uncorrected myth, not a broken promise in sight ... Jayzus, Jayzus, what a travesty.

It's not so much the B.C. election that's got my hair on fire, it's seeing the death of principled journalism in a free press.

Please don't leave yet. This story is getting bigger by the hour. Bigger, deeper, clearer, stinkier.

Remember former B.C. premier Ujjal Dosanjh popping up last April Fool's Day as the newly anointed Liberal candidate on Paul Martin's team? Did you wonder about that at the time? I did ...

That was the Dosanjh who "led" the NDP into the 2001 Election but who threw in the towel 1/2 way through -- now being catapulted into a federal Liberal cabinet seat as Minister of Health.

Alarm bells didn't really begin ringing in my head, until Ujjal appeared at centre stage in Ottawa last week, helping Paul Martin's chief of staff to ... um, er ... not negotiate with Gurmant Grewal on what he might expect in return for two parliamentary votes.

Of course, we'd never have known about that except for Grewal's ungentlemanly tape recordings.

My eyes finally opened like daisies when the transcripts of Grewal's tapes has him (a Conservative) boasting to his two new Liberal chums (Dosanjh & Tim Murphy) that Liberals could be elected in any riding, anywhere in Canada, anytime, because of Indo-Canadian block-voting. Wha-at?? Hullo?? But wait ... wasn't that the Basi Boys' territory?!!

Then again, wasn't there a major scuffle during Dosanjh's campaign for NDP leadership when he was accused of being elected by "tainted" votes? By newly-signed up members who didn't know they were members, etc?

More later, I hope ... especially if you can help by remembering more pieces of this emerging narrative.