I agree Monte.

Please keep us informed on this story. Those brave elders need and certainly deserve all the attention they can garner in fighting for their nation's future.

Do you by chance know who signed that agreement on behalf of the province and if any off-reserve members ever got to participate as required?

Alan Edzerza signed the agreement with the province on behalf of Tahltan Nation. He is no longer employed by the Tahltan Band and is now the Special Advisor to the Premier on Aborginal Issues.

Alan Edzerza signed the agreement with the province on behalf of Tahltan Nation. He is no longer employed by the Tahltan Band and is now the Special Advisor to the Premier on Aborginal Issues.

Mah-Doo! For the information on our so loved country or ours. They or we should never mess with the glaciers for it's as sacred as the ground we walk on. I pray to God it's not to late to stop it all, thanks for the wakeup call.

..city-slickers have such romantic views of the "indigenous' in the outback, and the Elders, and all that sacred stuff. Reality is, decades of severe poverty, super unemployment, high death rates, etc..so except for the Elders, who get their pension checks and old age allowances, the employable Tahltan's are looking for work to pay their bills, and buy their consumables, I-Pods, computers, computer games, DVD's, - just like you city folks- as well as trucks, ski-doos, as well as put some $ away for retirement.---and they are not into trading beaver pelts for a few dollars.

This article is such 'new-age' romantic BS it makes me puke ---the Elders, the wise Elders, ---"ageism" at its best.

The Dene are major players in NWT developments in the Mackenzie Valley, getting resouce rents and jobs, and training, why not the Tahltans too...or should they just sit on the side with their hands out...hoping for Ottawa to give them some crumbs. It seems, except for a some Elders, other generations have embraced consumerism and capitalism....c'est la vie...things change, the old way of life, hunting,etc..is not alluring to the new generation.

I see this is from the Shared Vision...that new age BS magazine written by city slickers....why the Tyee would pick this up and give it two special postings is beyond me.

...just how many elders are we talking about ..from a total of how many--the article conveniently leaves that out. It also leaves out the numbers of Tahltans employed, also amoun of monies coming in...that are re-invested in social services, health care, housing, etc...anyways..all of this is absolutely none of any city-slickers business...they are a soverign people and we , imperialist city slicker environmentalists ought not to so arrogantly mess with their internal business. ...

oh ya, you write just like the person ahead of you. Same limited argument and the same obvious bitterness that the elders are standing up for others.

As for how many elders, how many of the thousands of Tahltans who live off reserve, were afforded an opportunity to vote in the last band election?

To compare the decades long lead up to the MacKenzie Valley pipeline plan with a deal that was done without any band-membership involvement, is ludicrous.

There are tonnes of evidence and documents that have been PUBLICLY presented on the MacKenzie plan.

Certainly you aren't suggesting the Dene leadership has been involved in this without any information or issues flowing to and from the general Dene people?

Can you say the same thing about this slick deal between the chief, resource extractors and a provincial government that is on the record as opposing Aboriginal rights?

Personally, I have responded to this article because I think the elders have a very strong case.

The fact that someone would try to make them out to be wealthy, uncaring individuals, surviving on pension income, including Old Age benefits, which, by the way, don't go to wealthy retirees, is enough to keep my interest in this, regardless if you think I'm an "imperialist city slicker environmentalist."

And 'oh ya,' you are correct - where are the numbers of how many are employed and an interesting number with comparison of non employed band members and also where is the consultation as in 'public hearings' as is usually done within municipalities. >P< I just had this instinctually feeling all this and including the taklu were just excuses to lead up to the "new gold rush" of the last of this beautiful land in northern British Columbia in collusion with all those institutions (government and corporate).

I agree...one cannot eat oil, gas and minerals.

...without the revenues from oil, natural gas, mineral, and forest revenues of the last 70 years ...the lower mainland would be a wasteland in terms of schools, hospitals, roads, universities, everything.....buddy, the only new dollar of wealth produced in this province, comes not from Victoria...but obstensibly from the interior...and for once, the 'indigenous' are not content with Indian Affairs hand-outs, they want a piece of the action, jobs, revenues, contracts, etc so just like you they can be capitalist consumers to buy "stuff" ...but as someone said if is 'none of our f**k**g business...they are a soverign people...should they not decide themselves, or should city slicker environmentalists intervene...what's the proposal here?

Oil, gas, and minerals can be exchanged for food. Just a thought.

Ah yes, as usual the southerners are bickering about the correct solutions while in reality you will never have to deal with the consequences.
I thought this article was very astutely written to a unique situation. Jerry Asp obviously has a conflict of interest. And Henry Quock does tell great stories ...

really?, you are correct. They are a sovereign people, but I too have a right to free speech.

I am not interfering in anything other than responding to a news story, and if that's your ox being gored in the story, too damned bad.

Elders, no matter where they come from, seldom take such drastic steps as to take over band offices and challenge the legitimacy of chiefs unless they have a pressing need to stop something or at least to bring it to the attention of others.

I just wish more elder outside First Nation communities would be as responsible as these brave folks are.

Perhaps then, we as a society, would make a few decisions based on wisdom rather than on who gets a greenback.

POWER TO THE ELDERS.

Too many holes in this story to make informed comment. Who is Oscar Dennis? Did he organize the "elders" or is he just their self-appoined mouthpiece? Is he a member of a band council? Has he run and lost? We know he's "university educated," but is he employed and, if so, by whom? Shareholders of the TNDC are said to "include" the Tahltan and Iskut bands. By what vehicle? It's difficult for bands to hold shares in their own right since they are not legal entities. Are the shares held by individuals or by Canada (DIA) in trust for the bands? Does Asp hold shares? Who are the other shareholders? Why does Dennis refer to TNDC as "his (Asp's) Tahltan Nation Development Corporation," and, subsequently, to "his company." And why are these quotes set out without amplification? It's never possible for outsiders (non-Indians) to fathom the rivalries that beset Indian politics--family against family, band against band, tribe against tribe, haves against have-nots. This story needs to be developed by a journalist.

Tahltan Elders Press Release February 25, 2005

"Dena nenn Sogga neh 'ine"

Tahltan Elders Declare a Moratorium on Resource Development Within
Their Territory

On the 33rd day of the Tahltan Elders' sit in at the band offices in
Telegraph Creek, B.C., Tahltan Elders have come to a consensus using
a traditional decision-making process. The statement is named "Dena
nenn Sogga neh 'ine" meaning, "Keepers of the Land" in the Tahltan
Language. We are putting the Federal, Provincial and Indian Act
Governments on notice that "the scam is over". The elders declare a
moratorium on resource development within traditional Tahltan
Territory.

Over the past 33 days the elders have reflected upon "the old days"
and the way Tahltan governance progressed. Eighty-six year old Roy
Quock said that, "the Elders would sit together and talk about a
problem, until they all agreed upon a way to deal with it." This
would mean that they had to reach full consensus. The process would
be absent of attacks, accusations and aggressive behaviour. When a
consensus decision is finally reached, it would be implemented
immediately and all would move ahead in unity. The focus is always on
what is best for the nation and the generations to come.

The decision to impose a moratorium took 33 days and without a
lingering doubt, the Elders are fully prepared to move ahead in
unity. Verna Callbreath a Crow Clan Elder says, "It's not just for
us, it's for our children and grandchildren of tomorrow."

Therefore, it is both our right and our responsibility, as Tahltan
Elders, to reclaim our legitimate place within Tahltan law and
custom. The actions of chiefs and councils, Tahltan Central Council,
and others who purport to represent Tahltan interest, have forced us
to occupy the Band offices in Telegraph Creek. These
non-representative individuals and bodies have exceeded their
authority and no longer have the confidence or trust of the Tahltan
People and therefore can no longer represent us.

Kukdookaa Terri Brown, past President of the Native Women's
Association of Canada (NWAC) and the National Action Committee on the
Status of Women (NAC), and Spokesperson and assistant to the Elders
states, "The Elders have shown tremendous courage to young people and
the nation as a whole." "This experience has rekindled hope in my
heart and I will forever honour and remember my elders."

- 30 -

For more information contact Terri Brown at (613) 791-4492 or

or call Pat Edzerza (250) 235-3151

________________________________________________________ _______

Tahltan Elders Statement

"Dena nenn Sogga neh 'ine" (Protectors or Keepers of the Land)

We, the Tahltan People, historically a sovereign nation have occupied
our traditional territories since time immemorial. Our culture is
organized through a matrilineal clan system. This has always been and
remains our broad governing structure. Tahltan Elders held the
responsibility to uphold Tahltan beliefs, customs, values and laws
for future generations.

Our inherent rights are given by Creator and cannot be diminished or
removed by any law including discriminatory government legislation
such as the Indian Act. The clan, elders, families and Tahltan People
have been marginalized and fragmented by settler society and the
genocidal practices of church and state. Tahltan land remains Unceded
territory, which has never been surrendered or taken in war or
conquest. We will defend in any way necessary our rights and
freedoms, to be self-determining.

Today, we Tahltan People face numerous massive development projects.
Agreements have been negotiated in secret between Indian Act chiefs,
the Tahltan Central Council and government and industry. The promise
of jobs does not compensate for loss of land, resources and impacts
on the environment and people. This is not only a violation of
Tahltan law; it is a fundamental violation of our rights under the
Canadian Constitution. No indigenous culture could survive the
combined impact of the proposed projects. Our land, and the creatures
that depend on that land, would be devastated. Our Tahltan People
would be devastated.

Therefore, it is both our right and our responsibility, as Tahltan
Elders, to reclaim our legitimate place within Tahltan law and
custom. The actions of chiefs and councils, Tahltan Central Council,
and others who purport to represent Tahltan interest, have forced us
to occupy the Band offices in Telegraph Creek. These non-represented
individuals and bodies have exceeded their authority and no longer
have the confidence or trust of the Tahltan People and therefore can
no longer represent us.

Our responsibilities as Tahltan Elders require us to inform all those
who would come to this land and desecrate it for their own financial
gain that you can no longer negotiate agreements in secret. Tahltan
Elders are the true, legitimate governing body. We will apply Tahltan
laws to stabilize, build, and strengthen our nation. We will protect
our way of life and Mother Earth from further harmful assaults.

We, the Tahltan Elders are the stewards of our homeland, which we
have continued to sustain and hold in trust for future generations
make this solemn declaration:

1. We assert our aboriginal title and inherent rights to the
land and resources within our traditional territory.

2. We declare a complete moratorium on resource development in
our territory until:
a. the leadership dispute has been resolved,
b. a fair, just, and legitimate process is developed which
honours Tahltan custom and law;
c. all Tahltan members are consulted, informed and give final
approval of development
3. Prior to any future development in Tahltan Territory, legal
agreements must be negotiated with Tahltan Elders that ensure Tahltan
People equitable share in revenues generated and are involved in all
aspects of decision-making.
4. All agreements negotiated with industry and government to
date, because of the absence of the participation and consent of the
Tahltan Elders and Families, are hereby declared void.

Ma Duu' Mussi Cho All My Relations

perhaps people have simply omitted oka.

...it is an internal matter...sorry to hear about such conflicts, but like someone else said, this story leaves one with too many questions unanswered, and there are always so many internal rivalries and power struggles within First Nations Band ...as an outsider ...i feel it is there matter to resolve, that's what self-government is about. Good luck!

Jery Asp is an elected chief period, he should exercise his mandate, than discipline all what sounds me to be NDP infiltrators amongst the ranks

Jery Asp is an elected chief period, he should exercise his mandate, than discipline all what sounds me to be NDP infiltrators amongst the ranks

Note to David Beers: So now you have in your comment and discussion forum a press release, a declaration and a manifesto, all posted by oportunistic agenda-pushers who have co-opted the Tyee and, no doubt, the Tahltan "elders " as well for purposes of their own juvenile activism. Can't you take this crap down? Make them buy ads just like Google does.

The Tahltan elders material is worth reading. Leave their stuff up. It's a credence to this site that we can read their press releases.

I live near to all of this, both in my heart and in my back yard. It is difficult to get unbiased opinions as either you are pro developement or environmentalist. The same goes for the opposing forces, we have seen Mr. Asp do some very good things in the community, the development of TNDC, the local mining initiatives ect,and yet in the not so distant past some very harmful things, as a result of his actions he was once "dismissed " from TNDC, and we know of the wrongs that were committed to his employees and people in the past dating back to the years of the BCR. The same could be said for the plight of the elders,it is felt that their heritage, customs, language and traditional lands which they are so earnestly trying to protect will be either adversely impacted or lost, and the fear of evironmental mismanagement is allowing the social and economical development of a people to be all but halted.
What we do know is this, the elders wanted to be informed and take part in the decisions for developement of their land.
Mr. Asp would like to see further economic developement "fast tracked".
When Mr. Asp was confronted by the elders he was less than accomodating and the current situation developed.
Is it possible that this delemma could be best resolved by taking the good from each voice and drafting a solution? Can each party step back just once and approach these issues with a common goal or objective. If so I am "hopeful" that the result will be a stronger Tahltan Nation.

The Globe&Mail picked up this story Saturday and while the Globe's story did add a few comments from the industry guys involved in this play, chief Asp wouldn't comment.

In brief, the Globe article had little more of any real substance than what we have aleady read in the Tyee.

My take on this isn't the lack of journalism as much as a lack of input by some very key players, who for some reason, don't want details of this interesting deal aired to the public.

Why?

How this issue affects non-Talhtan, i.e. everyone else, including other first nations, is this: historically, site-specific Aboriginal title and rights have been quietly signed away by persons with suspect authority to do so, that is, without an iron-clad mandate to do so; a chief elected under the Indian Act, while often providing 'leadership' on a number of issues, does not possess this explicit mandate. That chief's mandate ends with the boundaries of the reserve. This then leaves open the question of who really speaks for the ownership of traditional Aboriginal territories and their resources. Whatever the answer, surely it isn't vested in the hands of one person with pen in hand in some far off boardrooom in Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto. This is a major Canadian public policy issue, one that Canada, BC and Industry would conveniently rather not address; however, actions such as elders above is flushing this question out into the open - and it's not going away. On the contrary, it's only getting louder.

Before going ahead with the Shell methane project I would urge the leaders and elders of the Thaltan to travel to Wyoming and parts of Montana suffering from the side effects of methane extraction from Wyoming coal beds.

I've noticed too many comments referring to the gaps in information which have spurred skepticism towards the true issues of the story at hand. You obviously need to get some bearings on the projects on the verge of fragmenting the incredible Stikine watershed. Perhaps you should do some research yourself before you make large statements about the Tahltan and their dire situation. However, even then I doubt you can come close to understanding the true complexities and hardships they face.
Go the the Environmental Assessment Office and research the projects (http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/) for a taste of the number of projects being researched-Galore, Red Chris, Klappan, Forest-Kerr. This is truly only the tip of the iceberg as all projects are not currently under the EA. For example, test drilling for coal bed methane by law does not require the company to have the subsurface rights to that land. Additionally, the new online mineral tenure system touted by the provincial government completely disregards any First Nation land rights and title, nevermind being respectful enough to recognize familial ties to areas.
Pay attention to the respect issues at hand. Respect, for the land and for each other. The elders actions truly reflect the respect they have for the land and their culture, both of which are significantly threatened.

This is all part of the neo-colonial system of dividing and conquering the remaining truly indigenous people.
Read more about the evidence of past and present genocide in Canada:
www.hiddenfromhistory.org

Carrie
I don't think Klappen and Red Chris projects are in the Stikine watershield. You did forget to mention Bronson slope and SNIP, as well as a few other mines in the area. Galore was first explored in the 60's with an airstrip and road (almost gone)in the Stikine floodplain.

Hopeful
Thanks for the comments, native internal politics are often very complicated affairs. Elders and the band councils often clash and not always for noble reasons, they are after all human like the rest of us.

Greetings you all ignoramus of the real situation. Let's get things straight here:
1 - Mining harms the environment, there is no such thing as clean, safe mining. Gold is mostly used for jewellery, diamonds the same, silver and other gems travel the same road.
My question is jewellery a basic need?
2 - Oil and gas - Are very harmful to the envoronment and to all species
3 - Tactic and strategies - Governments create a problem so as their friends can provide a solution and get some money in their pockets for a 100 years and more ask the Irving family in Eastern Canada.
5 - BC wake up you have no idea what the Albertans oil and gas induatries are doing in the north. It is sad. I work in the industry and boy we will need a huge pile of money to clean up the mess that is being left behind. The regulations are being followed just in the paper... Oh how naive... stop using your car, start driving your bycicle...
OUR CHILDREN ARE IN FOR A DISASTER...AND THE PAY IS LOUSY.

Most Tahltan no longer live in their traditional territory for one reason - there are no jobs. Historically the ones that have remained have been dependent on Social Assistance.

The Tahltan have one resource to provide jobs and one alone - mining. Forestry is very marginal in the area.

So Jerry Asp's crime is that he set up a band owned company that gets the contracts that would otherwise have gone to companies in Vancouver or Calgary. This company provides decent paying jobs to the members, something that is otherwise not available. He then commits the horrible act of being chosen by the Tahltan to be their chief. And now he compounds his sins be refusing to be a victim and doing more effective negotiation to protect Talhtan territory than any other First Nation is doing on their lands.

Mining is the only bright spot the Tahltan have on the horizon, the elders are sadly misguided and seem to have an agenda of returning to the worst poverty of their era as the elected officials in the community.

Let the Tahltan sort this out, but I am willing to bet that the Tahltan will re-elect Jerry Asp next year

Somebody, Klappan and Red Chris projects are in fact in the Stikine River Watershed. Red Chris will discharge into Little Klappan which eventually flows into the Stikine river somewhere up in Spatzizi plateau. There is no minimizing the potentially harmful cumulative impacts on Stikine River if all of these projects are allowed to proceed. The only net gain will be held by the government and mining companies.