lol ever met an Aussie, Vanessa?

Especially the females from the southern island continent - they have quite the salty tongue.

The claim that it is the most taboo in English is absurd given a entire continent uses regularly.

Or how about this - esp. relevant here: Misandry - an extremely common theme on/in NDP friendly sites and organizations.

But still, kudos for mentioning it.

Only with my girlfriend's OK!

Then again, I hate when she refers to my cock as a penis!

Wow

Ms. Redmond remains a top notch journalist. And her single biggest virtue is COURAGE. A rare trait in the homogenized world of public discourse and weak political leaders. While most Tyee journalists share this virtue, Ms. Redmond is just plain out there. Good on ya.

As she says: "It's undeniable that removing the slur from women's parts and the names for them does benefit women, and signals the birth of a new era of foul language".

This is the crux of the matter. When I see mainstream media "normalizing" the C-word and the N-word, unfortunately it appears to more about chauvinism and misogyny than equality. it is still possible that in the end, the majority of citizens will use such words in an equal manner and drop the chauvinistic overtones, because the majority of citizens everywhere are actually more generous and just than our ruling elites. But it's certainly not the motive behind Hollywood IMHO.

As Thomas Franks explains in One Market Under God, there is a great desire by men of great wealth to return to the 1950's, where men were men and sheep were nervous (oops, sorry for the typo), I mean, women knew their place.
http://tcfrank.com/books/one-market-under-god/

Ultimately, if women use the C-word on a regular and casual basis, I think Ms. Redmond's hope can succeed. Great article!

For the love and power of language.... and sex.

Hmmmm. I've always used it where it seemed appropriate, and I suspect more use it in lust than generally acknowledge it. It's power, in large part, resides in the fact that it is "so forbidden."

Though I also use it like women use "prick" against men very often, when I'm really pissed off with her/them.

If you love words with power, and cunt, like fuck and cock all have power, and explosive, uninhibited colour, then you have to, at least secretly, love to use them. They can even help get you and your lady off.(Most men, I think, are more tuned to the secret lust and erotica side of women than we are generally given credit for. In short, they aren't that different from us.)

Talk dirty to me, lover.

As for...

As for misandry, it's as alive and well today as misogyny.( Probably always has been, just without the power.) It's certainly more open and in your face-, with misogyny having been driven underground, where it festers, I suspect, like misandry once did.

It was OK in Chaucer's time

Wikipedia says of Chaucer's audience:

'Polite' society's apparent revulsion at this word has come about in the last 700 years...proof that societal definitions of profanity are subject to change.

It's just a sound....I don't throw it around indiscriminately, but only because I don't know whether others around me might be offended. As far as I'm concerned, use it at will....

And Shakespeare, too

In Twelfth Night Malvolio says, referring to the contents of a note allegedly from Olivia, "These be her very c's, her u's, and her t's, and thus she makes her great p's". Spoken aloud, it sounds like the full word is being spelled out.

context, context

"But wait: isn't the perfectly neutral word 'vagina' enough to send most men screaming from the room? " I suppose it depends on which rooms you are hanging out in...
All words are neutral of and by themselves, and depend on all the nuances of spoken and written expression - and the context in which they are used - to acquire or to be assigned a given overtone."Dirty" ? "Rudest, crudest" ? Only if they are intended that way...
For me, words have power when they are used with care and attention to conveying the very precise meaning and intonation of the speaker/writer. To use 'cunt' versus 'vagina' does not signal a new era of foul language as long as it is construed as 'foul language', as epithet, as slur...
Misogyny or misandry is perpetuated by people, not words.

Could it also be that this.....

"She adds that since 'the c--- is the place where deception and betrayal transpire... the male ego would feel sufficiently threatened to need to deride and denigrate the female quintessence.' Plus, I hear some of them have teeth!"

is the reason so many movie monsters resemble one? ;o)

dirty words

"There are no dirty words, only dirty minds."
-- Lenny Bruce

"...the reason so many movie

"...the reason so many movie monsters resemble one? ;o)"

Probably, Stephanie - But the fantastic baroque arches of cathedrals & basilicas, tapered and rippled, also bear a self-conscious resemblance to the fearsome cunt. Let’s just say it inspires men to visions that are both hellish and heavenly.

Study your herstory and bring on the language police....

once again, we men are but innocent bystanders here. This discussion is written by a woman and intended for women to discuss/approve. If the feminist police say the 'c' word can't be said out loud, then it becomes law: it cannot be said out loud. we men are like sheep: if you say we can say it, we'll say it. it's that simple. We (men) just don't want to get fired/sued/slapped. It's really that simple.

Regarding language, it's a funny thing, isn't it? I was reading a blog today by a woman who called her wedding a 'commitment ceremony'. She married her 'partner'...curious thing, language...

words

When I was young, the words vagina and penis - and intercourse - didn't carry the same shock effect as their vulgar counteparts. This was because using them meant one was either "putting on airs", or whose knowledge was restricted to that imparted by his maiden aunt.

I wonder why no-one has mentioned the use of "pussy" as a more popular stand-in for cunt? It seems to me it's accumulated as wide a range of meanings as its counterpart.

Loaded Words

Cunt. It can be such a satisfying curse word to label jerks with. It's got so much more crudeness to it than "twat," another euphemism that's popular over the pond. But it might not be good for the vagina's self-esteem to always be compared with ne'er-do-wells.

@ VivianLea: You wrote, "All words are neutral of and by themselves, and depend on all the nuances of spoken and written expression - and the context in which they are used - to acquire or to be assigned a given overtone."Dirty" ? "Rudest, crudest" ? Only if they are intended that way..."

I fully agree that the context in which words are used gives them overtones, but disagree that words are neutral. They are symbols loaded with meaning. Even used in isolation, words have meaning that we derive from our culture and our own experience. Just because one person uses a word in a seemingly "neutral" context doesn't mean another person won't hear (or read) any "overtones"; in other words, we can never be certain that another person gives a word the same meaning that we do.

Katatak

Yes, that is precisely the difficulty of language...that no one ascribes the same meaning, necessarily, to any given word...And it is true that words can be given symbolism by culture (s).

Never the less, I like the word 'cunt' (and 'vagina', for that matter) and I do not use it in a rude, crude, or dirty way...
It seems to me we progress as humans when we value the richness and variety of the language, and appreciate the right word in the right context. But I might make the point that the "vagina's self-esteem"cannot be separated from the self esteem of the person it is attached to...

Is this a conspiracy?

Is the timing of this article an attempt to find a new expletive to replace "Gordon Campbell"?. If so, I prefer the male appendage for that.

Bad Words

Cursing can be pretty damn liberating. The Sex Pistols cleverly made a million from the magic word cunt in their song Pretty Vacant. The Brits do use the word as often as the guys I used to work on the river with used the word cocksucker. When I use the word in conversation in mixed company, even though people expect me to say just about anything, I get a lot of pursed lips and the occasional dagger aimed toward me. If the word cunt is losing its taboo status, it is doing so slowly.

Katatak

With words the power, like beauty, lies 'in the eyes of the beholder'. The 'beholdee' has absolutely no control over how a word is interpreted. That doesn't mean that the hurler of an epithet doesn't have any idea how their barb will set just that it can quite easily be deflected or if so desired allowed to fester and destroy the intended target's day.

In one act of the Vagina Monologues great pains are taken to desensitize women to the 'C' word to the extent that it is actually chanted by the audiences. This is an attempt at empowerment and is lesson to both sexes just who wields the power of a word.....we all do but as listeners not speakers.

The audience holds the power of words in their individual minds as opposed to the speaker. As soon as they transfer that power to the speaker then the Adolf Hitlers of the world can emerge.

Suck my cunt.

Snert and VivianLea make great points. I am also a tad surprised that VivianLea likes the word 'cunt'. I had the impression you were a militant feminist. Still and all, I would advise any man to never use the word 'cunt' in the workplace. (unless you're in construction and there are no cunts around). If you work in an office and have female co-workers, you may be looking for work the next day.

This topic raises many issues re: power, evolution, sex. The cock commands respect. The cunt does not. The cunt requires penetration and probing. The cunt is needier than the cock. Hmmmmm.....more on this later.

Um...eat my dick?

Well said, Snert. More people should attend the Vagina Monologues to learn who wields the power behind words. Imagine the effect on politics.

VivianLea, my vagina has asked me to apologize to you for my previous attempt at humour, the nuances of which may have been lost in this medium.

What's in a word?

I remember reading a long time ago, where Anais Nin recounted that when she first began to write erotica, (1940s) she had great difficulty in taking the required necessity of including the wide variety of repetitive sexual vulgarisms seriously, since she found such usage use to be humourous.

But they were not humourous in the days of my youth in the 50s and 60s, when such erotica was first becoming available. Then, they were very erotic and sexually exciting. Today, their shock value has long ago worn off.

Van de Velde's manual, Ideal Marriage (1926), considered pretty tame and sentimental today, was banned by the Catholic Chuch and was availabe in Canada only in Latin until the 60s. In a similar vein, the joke books that I read in the 50s came with bathing-suited pin-ups whose navels had to be airbrushed out.

It is little wonder that the 60s and 70s saw the exponential growth of iconoclastic sexual expression, which included Playboy's nudes, then Penthouse's pubic hair, all underscored by the use of swearwords. Sounds silly today, but the fight was hard-fought and bitter. It still lingers on, since the conservative forces of repression have not given up that fight.

Katatak notes:

"Well said, Snert. More people should attend the Vagina Monologues to learn who wields the power behind words. Imagine the effect on politics."

Yes indeed, Katatak, and just ask yourself why so many French swear words are not sexual, but religious in intent, such as "Sacre Bleu"

vagina apologies not necessary...

Katatak, the humour of "But it might not be good for the vagina's self-esteem to always be compared with ne'er-do-wells" was not lost on me; it was appreciated. Humour is always appreciated :)
Not to belabour the point, if one is called a 'cunt' in an angry or denigrating tone...it is an epithet, but that is true for virtually every word. On the other hand, the word used with love, or reverence, or admiration becomes a completely different thing... again, true for virtually all words.
snert makes a vital point: when we ascribe meaning to a word as listeners that is not necessarily intended by the speaker, our thoughts are distorted, which leads to messy communication.In the same way that we would take care with someone speaking English as a second language - to sensitively and accurately discern their meaning - we should not allow ourselves to become distracted or angered or offended by a word not in our own lexicon, but try to seek out the true meaning. Context, tone, body language and many other nuances are very critical to communication.
Me2, good point about French language cursing. Interesting...

Combining terms

I once heard a guy, chattering away during a boring lab session in university, combine two offensive terms words to come up with 'slunt'. Never heard it since then.

C___'s got that same hard consonant sound as f__k.

Boo!

I don't think "the taboo" in general, or the word cunt specifically, shocks us as much as we pretend it does.

The problem is, the tamed and so-called "civilized" modern herd pretends so well these days it's hard to know what we genuinely feel about anything.