This article is both timely and accurate. When I first started writing for a Western Canadian free weekly about five years ago, most reviews were approximately 1000-1100 words long. Then 750. Now 500! Several editors cited a marketing study whose great insight was that readers apparently don't read articles longer than 500 words. I don't know any people with this peculiar problem, but I do know plenty of people who have stopped reading Free Weekly.

The Free Weeklies around here get all the ad bucks. The big cannedwest daily whines about it, and about how they can't afford to hire journalists now. Well, they should've hired them in the first place, or at least allowed them to do their job.

If the free weeklies do indeed get all the ad bucks then maybe it would behoove Canwest to audit the journalism in their papers. I only read weeklies and monthlies because they have radically different slants on the news than the major dailies. I don't think that is an accident. The corporate mentality of the dailies has driven their journalistic bias and the local nature of the weeklies drives their journalistic slant.

Can Tyee readers name their favorite labour reporters in Canada? Can they name even one? The answer would of course be no, unless you see the Globe&Mail's workplace reporter Virginia Galt in the same context as the Globe's late Wilford List, undoubtably the pre-eminent labour reporter in Canada ever. Not to knock Galt, her mandate, which she covers quite well, is to focus more on the impact of new technology in the workplace or on academic studies that talk of pending change. Great reading for human resources practitioners or MBAs, but pretty dull copy compared to detailed reads about the adversarial system in Canada's workplace. Gone are the compelling pieces that List produced, articles that laid bare the real issues in labour relations. It was manditory reading for anyone who wanted to stay abreast of trends or simply wanted to read some of the really interesting and true workplace sagas in Canada. You understood when he covered the big disputes he had been to the picket line, talked to the corporate side, third parties and researched the historic importance or potential of a dispute without raising wild fears of insurection now so common in headlines above labour stories. He told readers what the Rand formula is and how it works. He included history lessons in his copy ensuring people understood precisely what was at stake. People who grew up reading the Vancouver Sun or Province can likely remember the play labour stories got as well. Today neither paper touches a labour issue until it has blown up and then takes a business page approach and leave historic context or union intent to be pretty much guessed at by readers. I think the last labour reporter at the Sun was Rod Mickleburgh, who fled Pac-Press about the time Conrad Black bought out Southam, and now offers quite good copy, but seldom on labour in the Globe. Alan Garr is another BC journalist who took up the labour beat until he was pressured out. He too was snapped up by the Globe before returning to freelance here. Today workers on a picket line will be quoted, especially if they are angry and willing to vent, but workers who have been struggling for years to get a decent wage or a pension or the ability to grieve workplace injustice are ignored. Stories are presented as business copy, focussing on the damage unions are inflicting on corporations and often, with nothing but corporate warnings, how the public is being harmed. Lost are issues such as how will an improved contract for farm workers help other's caught in low-wage ghettos. While I have focussed entirely on the labour beat or should I say the former labour beat, the decline in quality and content is across the spectrum of news. The industry will defend the elimination of the labour beat as cost saving or an effort to focus on more positive issues, but the real reason is that newspapers now pretty much reflect the wishes of its advertizers or the views of the publishers golfing buddies.

Good atrticle, and interesting comments by allan as well. There seems to be two key words missing from the article above, or perhaps three: MEDIA MONOPOLY AND COMPETITION. When there's a monopoly like canwest's by definition, there can be no competition, at least in the dailies. The Sun and Province have become mindless shills and propagandists for the gordon campbell junta, actually daring in their arrogance to run TWO-INCH headlines last saturday in the sun proclaiming "BC'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AT LOWEST SINCE 1981." As soon as the actual article is READ, however, the reader learns that unemployment is actually still UNCHANGED at6.9% and that BC LOST 22,600 WELL PAYING FULLTIME JOBS LAST YEAR, which the Sun ludicrously claims were "OFF-SET" by a gain in roughly the same number of LOW-PAYING PART-time jobs, transparent damage control for the bc liar's failed economic policies. It's a lot like buying food: if there's no competition, THERE'S NO QUALITY.

Advertisers. That is the core of the news reporting industry. Reporting news, informing the citizenry is a secondary or perhaps tertiary function.

The federal government tacitly acknowledges this truth in the Competition Act, the only act of Parliament as far as I can tell that addresses the news dissemination industry in any way whatever. The rules regarding media concentration in any given market speak only to the issue of advertising rates and saturation. No mention of alternate viewpoints, no mention of variations in distribution schedules, no mention of ownership concentration (other than as it relates to advertising rates or saturation).

The media, the press, the news, however you'd care to name it, that was once lauded as a vital contributor to the success of a democracy has devolved into what is more often than not a millstone around the neck of democracy.

Guess what, folks. Dana is right, advertising is key. The good news? The market may save the media afterall. As the Sun deteriorates into a propaganda service, and more British Columbians tune into the fact that they're only getting half the story, the circulation numbers will drop. I commute everyday to downtown Vancouver, transferring at Waterfront Station, and I see the Sun folks blowing out papers by the thousands, for free, to anyone who will take one. This is the sign of a desperate operation. Circulation is down, advertising is down, and profits are down. At this rate, it's only a matter of time before Asper either sells The Sun or dramatically overhauls the paper to reflect the lives of the readers who used to buy it.

This is a well-timed article. As a communcations major, most of these issues are something that is touched on in university. Consquently, when the budget cuts hit, communications and liberal arts are the first departments to always be hit. As for the Vancouver Sun and Province, I always enjoy the articles of the sports writers like Gary Mason, Neil Macrae, Tony Gallagher to name a few. When I read the other sections I always enjoy and appreciate Kim Bolan's edge and tenacity to actually report on great issues, even at her own danger. As for others, I don't care much. I think Jonathan Manthorpe is lost and most other columnists are cheerleaders for the current Gordon Campbell government. Why is this? I believe mostly because of the Hollinger and Canwest conservative agendas. But it doesn't stop there. I believe some journalists are stooping to new lows. An example was Ted Chernecki broadcasting outside of Todd Bertuzzi's house and interviewing a young kid across the street. It is stunts like that which turn people off of current events. Not every story requires sensation, stimulation, blood, gore and tears. I also find journalists always go back on easy to pick on targets, for example, the Vancouver Police Department. The moment something possibly goes wrong, the VPD is on some hot seat for the way it handled something, like the way they handled the Woodward's building protestors. I saluted them at that time for doing a tough job. I always said that I could have done it for cheaper because all I would have needed was a big front end loader bobcat and three dumptrucks, I would have started from one end the block and plowed through till I got to the end and loaded the debris into the trucks. But, that is another story unto itself. I used to despise Michael Campbell but lately, with some of the articles he's been putting out about the UN, I really agree with him. For everything else, he needs a wake-up call. I think journalists need to be freed from the yokes of their elderly editors. We need some more thought into these articles. Especially around issues that Canadians have to bitch about like our healthcare system, our military and our space in the world in terms of foreign affairs. Thank you.

I cancelled my subscription to the Calgary Herald(Canwest) because the columnists had the same point of view. The lack of diverse opinions made it usless as a source of information. You get tired of reading how wonderful Ralph Klein and Stephen Harper are day after day.

Every member of the BC liberal party may soon be instructed to buy CanWest shares and quadruple their subscriptions should CanWest's numbers get bad enough. It's only in the Sun/Province, BCTV and 'NW that these neocanuck bozoz get any credibibilty at all and even then it ain't much. Should CanWest cease Gordie and the Pink Faced Clowns (new band) would have no media cheerleading other than 'NW.

Ever since I was a cub reporter, it was understood that the news hole surrounding the ads was just that - a hole to be filled. Often by drivel, sometimes by brilliance, but always at the behest of the publisher who invariably came from the ad ranks. Notions of 'freedom of the press', 'balanced reporting' were just part of the shell game called journalism. Newspapers now exist only to sell stuff. BC is ruled by two monopolies, the tired CanWest and the David Black empire of predominantly free weaklies... ah, sorry, weeklies full of forests of flyers. I was once a newspaper addict. Does anyone today read The Sun like I did back when Wasserman, Bob Hunter et al provided daily compelling reading? Or the often great old Montreal Gazette? Gawd, I miss my daily fix of The Guardian in the UK. But thanks to the 'net, I haven't bought a real paper in years. Paper is now pass'e for reasons much more than environmental. Long live space like the Tyee.

I used to read the Province The Vancouver Sun and the Globe and Mail, now I go online to the cbc, thetyee and straightgoods when I have the time which isn't as often as I would like! It would be nice to see thetyee make it to print for those who do not have access to the net! I would definately subscribe for my parents who are still living in the North without access to the net!

There is no such thing, at this date of the world’s history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it… The business of the Journalist is to destroy truth; To lie outright; To pervert; To vilify; To fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals for rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and or lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes. – John Swinton, former Chief of Staff, The New York Times, circa 1880

Great quote vick, especially, I think because it came from aniother "new era" of robber barons not unlike our own, the 1880s to century's turn... Today I saw a NEW LOW in the vancouver sun, just when I was sure that the paper was so far beneath contempt it needed the hubble telescope to vaguely spy the gutter...a new low...It seems the BC liberals are now giving BC liberal mlas free guest platforms to tell us all why unions are BAD, for BC, yes, that's it, honest they're bad. Blair Lekstrom's bland opining of "unions bad, gordon campbell good..." was not unreminiscent of the episode of South Park, where Mr. Garrisson talks about drugs in the same phrasing...it's getting MORE and MORE difficult to satirize the bc liberals, they almost do it themselves, but I'm gonna keep tryin' anyway...Oh, and "check out "the voice of the people" letters section introduced a short while ago, funny how often the particular "people" whose letters get published tend to be rightwing apologists...if the vancouver sun is unable to reelect gordon campbell, it may well spell its demise...

Two words, Lewis. Government subsidy.

Re Unions - Union heads should steer away from belting out the same old rhetoric. It does more harm than good in achieving positive public opinion. It would be beneficial for Union heads to hire on consultants to help with educating the populace on why a union presence is necessary for a healthy economy. There's a major contradiction when the 'goods and services industry' relies on decent wages, and yet business owners are very anti union?

trulib, what same old rhetoric? Have you actually seen what the campbell's cuts have accomplished? Nothing. The excellent cleaning staff is gone in change for some private company and look viruses are breaking out left, right and centre in our hospitals. There is no need for consultants because they cost only money and don't do anything constructive. Funny how this is all turning around and burning Campbell and his band of idiots. Let me say this much, union products and services are higher in quality and better in service. Why? Because as union personnel, we care for eachother and everyone else and see to it that people are treated fairly, just like we were sometime way back. If Gordon's attitude was a bit different, the relationship between government and workers would be different and more productive and more cordial. But if may say one thing, what Gordon and his buddies at the papers have succeeded in doing is giving Joe Public the feeling like they have the God-given right to piss and spit on a public service worker just because they work in a union environment and get a union wage whereas their private counterparts don't get the same benefits and wages. That's what I've been observing. The union man and woman have been kicked, spat on, curbed, insulted, denograted, shoved aside, demeaned, embarassed, with the expectation that they'll show up to work tomorrow for more of the same because they have houses and mortgages to pay for. And most do while taking little sick time and maintain excellent composure. Trulib, if you are thiniking that you can turn this thread into some anti-union action, think again. Thank you.

They buy Ink by the Barrel & Paper by the roll, to roll out the same story in all majors across Canada, including their smaller affiliates, while we're all supposed to pretend we don't 'notice' a thing, that manipulation of the press doesnt exist. This is getting off topic on here, so back onto this quote, "These are some of the findings of The State of the News Media 2004, a massive survey carried out for the U.S.-based Project for Excellence in Journalism, which is affiliated with Columbia University. Its authors, Bill Kovach, Tom Rosenstiel and Amy Mitchell conclude: “Faced with declining audiences, many major news institutions have changed their product in a way that costs less to produce while still attracting an audience. The public senses this and says it doesn’t like it.” Although the project surveyed only U.S. media, you’d think its findings would be debated by journalists everywhere, especially in Canada where the same patterns – declining readers, declining viewers, cost-cutting in the newsroom, convergence – have been evident for years. But nothing like this is happening in the insular world of Canadian journalism. Most editors and producers have never heard of the report, let alone read it or debated it with their colleagues. "

Lewis I will not buy a vancouver sun not for 2 cents!

I think there's another aspect to this that hasn't been mentioned yet. It relates to all of these complaints.

Democracies, both Parliamentary and republican ones, are very dynamic. They survive the excesses and mood swings of the people by having incorporated checks and balances inside and outside their structure, to slow action and force sober second (and third) thoughts. The inside ones, like auditors and ethical standards and laws about influence and money and such are controllable by the government, and therefore vulnerable to manipulation by unscrupulous ideologues as we all have seen lately.

Of the outside ones, the strongest and most important is a free and diverse press. It's why we used to have ownership laws and content rules and things like that. Because people's understanding is coloured indelibly by the information they receive. Without a way to keep people informed, you get no informed electorate, and soon no real Democracy. Just a deluded and manipulated Punch and Judy audience, booing or cheering on cue like so many Americans. Who said 'If they can keep you from asking the right questions, they don't have to worry about the answers' ? It makes sense therefore that at a time when vested interests are making a play for control, that they would try to subvert the press, or buy it in order to prevent widespread opposition. The lesson of Nixon and the Washington Post. Who owns the Post now?

It would go roughly like this: Buy and subvert the public servants, get them to repeal or weaken internal checks and balances. Simultaneously co-opt the free press to manufacture consent (thanks to Chomsky for that sweet phrase). Then warp the elections process to prevent unplanned changes. Then loot and pillage at will.

What I find very interesting is that just at the same time we are witnessing this seemingly foolproof scamming of the Western Democracies, we are also seeing the emergence of this marvellous, impossible to regulate new medium, and literally hundreds of new sources of information like this one here. The Tyee is essentially a newspaper that actually prints every single letter to the editor it gets. Unedited. How cool is that? And there are many more of every stripe, and doubtless more to come in the future.

The timing is almost too perfect to be a co-incidence, don't you think?

The last time I checked B.C. was not part of Russia. How in heaven's name was CanWest allowed to obtain such a monopoly of the newmedia? Their attempts to prop up the Gordon Campbell Cronies has become blatantly obvious to any thinking individual. It is the general public who ultimately hold the power of change in their hands. The only way to halt the propaganda machine is for CanWest to really feel the mood of the public through their pocketbook; then change will occur. The Tyee deserves a lot of credit for helping to fill the void of REAL NEWS REPORTING. Now if only David Beers would convince "DR. FOTH" (ALLAN FOTHERINGHAM) TO WRITE SOME OF HIS BRILLIANT POLITICAL WIT and WISDOM we get something really rolling here!

LOL. There's a phrase in the article that highlights at least *one* of the problems. It's "best practices". That comes straight out of Management 101. "Best practices' is a euphemism for "on the cheap", not 'sound journalism'. The minute any journalist in this town takes a walk instead of pandering to the 'pro corporate' slant that abounds in both local rags, I *might* regain my belief in their profession. And something tells me most will simply never work up enough the backbone to do it - because there's always some fresh faced 'fluffer' who'll do *anything* to take their job. So they'll just keep shovelling and shovelling and shovelling...

It really would be great to have someone with Fotheringham's superb humour and sense of things, wouldn't it? A lawyer I met at a do not too long ago said it well. He was talking about trials, the ultimate exersize in opposing authority. He said, 'laughter is the enemy of the Crown. The minute you get people laughing at their antics, you start to win'.

I never read anything from Allan Fotheringham. He sounds like a good author? Where did he write before and does he have any books out? Forgive me, I'm just becoming accustomed to making arguments without cussing and I'm learning Communications in school too. Thank you

I Googled him. Turns out he has a web site. Start at:

http://www.drfoth.com/books.htm

The sun attempted to put up a one day "SOUND-OFF" THREAD, EXTOLLING the virtues of gordon backstabber, but quickly had to remove it after only ONE dAY, when the overwhelming majority of the posts gave a big thumbs down to gordon liar. This is the second time this has happened in less than two months. I was able, however, to get the info printed IN CAPITAl LETTERS THAT THE BC LIARS LOST 22,600 FULL TIME, WELL PAYING JOBS LAST YEAR, QUOTING THE STORY IN WHICH THE SUN TRIED TO BURY THIS FACT. I, and others have been successful, in turning the sound-off posts, many of which run as long as a couple of months, from a redneck stronghold, into a forum in which the right is losing BADLY. I encourage others to complete the leftwing takeover of the canwest newspaper "SOUND-OFF" feature. Posts can be made anonymously, and it is not neccesary to be a subscriber. There is censorship, but the sun is still caught between a rock and a hard place, for they must at least make some efort to seem unbiased.

The sun has desperately come up with a new poll today, showing the BC LIARS and the ndp, at a statistical dead heat -and, remember, the ndp vote is far more efficient than the liar's which is concentrated in wealthy districts. The sun is trying to claim that bcer's believe the economy is improving, BUT ADMITS THEY MAKE LITTLE LINKAGE BETWEEN THE IMPROVEMENT AND THE BC LIAR'S POLICIES. So this is actually good news for the ndp, I would say.

Great article & discussion. Thanks.

And what about this latest trend toward 'convergence'. There's BCTV news with so-and-so giving a heads-up for an article in tomorrow's Sun and promos in the papers for programs on TV and pity the poor viewer or reader who has trouble seeing the difference between entertainment and news. These days a 'good journalist' has to be friends with the TV camera. Who cares if they can write. Or think. Just a 100-watt smile is all that's needed, kids, and you too can be a journalist.

Hey folks if we don't like what they are saying turn them off and don't buy their papers, eventually they will figure it out or go broke, boycott their advertisers and let them know you are doing so. I used to be a big shop local advocate now I am very careful who I give my money to, don't support chamber members and refuse to give a dime to any store sporting a c.f.i.b. sticker. Take a look at their web site read some of their literature, a union for independent business but not called a union go figure!These people are all anti union for the working folk but it is ok for them to have a union! Most of the so called trade unions have the word association or federation they are labelled with the dirty word but the canadian federation of independent business is not a union, sure!

And a great deal of the private sector, far more than the media admits is also unionized: reporters at bctv, for example who seem to spend all their time crawling up gordon liar's butt. Ctv tv reporters, unionized as well, are very little better. Yet somehow, having a dependable and happy workforce for institutions that affect people with life, career, and health issues, can now somehow be better run by paying starvation wages, as in the lost heu jobs. What a pack of backstabbing leeches, the triumverate of the bc liars, canwest global, and the vancouver board of trade really is...

And it always seems to come back to 'them against us' for Tyee's commenters, doesn't it? Even in an interesting discussion about newspapers and the media, here comes the Unions vs BC Liars argument. Which is probably why the Liberals will get in again. Someone has to step outside the box and see that Onions have as much to answer for as Liars. And as far as the "turn them off and don't buy their papers" goes, that's like the farmed salmon discussion. That stance may be fine for the Nut Burgers amongst us, but there's still the majority who eats meat whatever the kind, shops 'til they drop, etc.

“Who Owns What” (in media) at http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/

“Journalism.org - The State of the News Media 2004” at http://www.stateofthenewsmedia.org/

The comment at 9:37:32 AM was in error, because the link was already mentioned in the article.

It is us against them in case you haven't noticed, a lot of people are being hurt by gordo. If the media sells advertising based on circulation and profit is their bottom line why wouldn't you turn them off to get their attention otherwise they will continue with the poor quality and biased rhetoric everyone is complaining about! If they don't get it let them go broke.

Yeah, MJK, that damned ndp with two balanced budgets, (PROVEN, NOT PROJECTED) a billion and a half surplus, and 4.6% economic growth rate in their last year of office. And they didn't even assault any vulnerable, innocent people, at least NOWHERE TO THE DEGREE THE BC BACKSTABBERS DID, what good are they? DUH!

For the first time, thanks to Lewis, I took a look at soundoff at the Vancouver Sun. What a bunch of nutjobs there are there. Holy. I took a quick look, after all the right wing nuttery I couldn't take it anymore. I did however find out from some intellectual that Larry Campbell is a Commie who runs Vancouver like a welfare office. Intersting, I would have never known.

No kidding KWL, I haven't been there for a lon time but it was pretty extreme back then, and Lahey is complaining about thetyee posters!

I repeat: For the sake of all British Columbians, let's bring 'DR. FOTH' onboard at the Tyee to really stir the pot. Honestly, there is not another political journalist that can touch his ability to write so brilliantly about the state of political affairs. What do you think David Beers?

I have seen OUTRIGHT HATE LITERATURE ON CANWEST "SOUND-OFF" POSTS, THAT IF DIRECTED AT ANT GROUP BESIDES THE POOR, WOULD BRING CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS IN THE SUPREME COURT OF CANADA. I can tell you one thing however, thanks to myself and other posters, in the last month, the rightwing no longer dominates these threads. If anyone wants to verbally smack around the worst rightwing offenders, rebutt FREE, aka, Stop Socialism Now!, Traq, or trog, Jay-dee, Teddyden, "Michael" and other mindless little rightwing shills. The best idea though, is to continually insert the ideas they least want to hear, like the fact the bc liars lost 22,600 well paying full time jobs last year, to counteract their canwest propaganda with the truth....

I am not the same michael that lewis swift is referring to. Anyway, the canada.com sound off is interesting, it is a breeding ground for hate. I was called one of the posters a racist for making very extreme remarks about immigration. Needless to say, the sound off editors hacked my post to shreds. So i posted again directly addressing the editors of the soundoff asking them why they edited my piece. I acutally got a response (i included my real email address) stating that i got off topic so they took it out. When i questioned the ethics of including blatantly racists comments i got no answer. It's typical tactics at canwest to incite hate. Most of their soundoffs encourage people to spew hate against the poor, the gay, immigrants, and the political left. Another frequent soundoff ranter to go after lewis is shane matthews, graphic artist from surrey. He come and goes in spurts, but when he's posting, it's something else.

I know, you're not the same, "Michael," Michael, and I apologize for any confusion, which I don't think exists, as your posts are always respectfull to the disadvantaged. I have had some luck getting through spirited rebuttals, by threatening to go the CRTC, and continue to post anonymously. I would estimate only about 60% of my posts get through, but some that do are fairly hardhitting.

On the mayencourt sound-off in the province, and in some other sound-off threads, I have seen remarks advocating work camps for the poor, sterilization for the poor, send the poor back to where they came, and the usual lilting medley of the poor are ALL drug addicts, thieves, and lazy. NOW IMAGINE TRYING TO POST THE SAME COMMENTS ABOUT ANY RACIAL GROUP, ANY GENDER, OR INDEED, ANY OTHER CLASS OF PEOPLE. In 2004, Year of Our Gord, in BC it's still perfectly ok to make such remarks, and it often requires hectoring of canwest editors even to rebutt them. Luckily, such threads are being archived for future human rights tribunals....

I'll keep an eye out for surrey shane, he sounds more like a brown artist to me...

Yeah, the attacks on the poor are pretty brutal and i truely believe that canwest purposely puts soundoffs on issues such as welfare and unionization because of the number of idiotic responses that they'll receive. In turn, the believers of the global rhetoric can claim that their beliefs are the norm thereby justifying the utter contept for anyone just trying to make a living. This way they steer the attention away from the real crooks of the system. My favourite is when they label us "commies" anytime we show a little compassion for our fellow human beings. Keep up the good work lewis!

Thanks to John Miller for providing information we can actually use to improve the media. The mega-series example is interesting. He's right about the CAJ and Canadian daily industry being stagnant. I'm involved in workshop organizing and it's tough to find Canadian presenters. We usually end up with American speakers. An excellent article, followed by a discussion that's as disappointing as it is predictable.

Why Don't you try having some of the people fired by the aspers, or earlier by conrad black present, mr fletcher? Or how about the victims of the calgary herald's anti-union drives?? Sounds to me as if your workshop is as rote, disapppointing, predictable and as controlled by ideology and an inner circle as you accuse the tyee response of being.....if all you can find is american speakers when their press is even more disgracefully controlled and manipulated by elites than is ours, you either aren't trying very hard, or the fix is already in...at least here everyone can participate, all they have to be able to do is defend their views, and use logic, and rhetoric well, no points are given however, for ten times-over disproved neoliberal swill...

Yeah, I know some of the "victims" who work for Calgary Herald wages and benefits. You seem to know as much about newspapers and workshop presenters as you do about the other topics you expound on, Lewis. Have you by any chance ever worked in the media, or for that matter held any kind of a paying job?

most of us base our opinion of the media on the way they handle stories that are important to us personally or as Canadians and canwest is bias, no one can deny this! Didn't gordo hire the wife of a vancouver sun editor, giving her a very good paying postion! Ah well at least he hired some local talent eh! Oh yes and while we are on the subject of the sun didn't they hire a former fraser institute type to write the editorial page or something like that, lets not forget one of the writers is no one else but gordos brother, no bias there eh! It used to be a good paper!

Vick, you may be referring to Fazil Mihlar, the editorial page editor of the Sun, a fiscal conservative. Michael Campbell was a writer and editor before his brother went into provincial politics. The reason that conservative commentators are on the rise is that they are the ones providing the ideas these days. (See Robert Fulford's column in Saturday's National Post for an analysis of this broad phenomenon.) The fevered conspiracy theories that pollute this site in lieu of reasoned discussion are tiring. Canwest is my competition, just to anticipate the next dumb accusation that will be aimed at me.

I don't read the post not interested, I know who michael is and I remember when he first started writing for the sun, about the time the paper started going down hill! Conservative commentators are on the rise because that is the way the media is swinging lately, ever since conrad black I would say! Thanks in part to the concentration in ownership! This is not good in my opinion we need debate, without opposition democracy suffers, the political situation in b.c. is a perfect example!

If you seriously find Canwest to be your competition, Fletcher, it's about time you started publishing another point of view. In most cities, they're losing business. It's a shrinking readership and a loser's market.

Tom Fletcher, as much as I don't like the Sun or the Province, they certainly aren't your competition other than in your dreams. Your little fart-catcher, the Maple Ridge snews is part of that bottom of the barrel chain of weeklies and tri-weeklies that delivers more errors than facts. Do you guys still refer to David Black as your owner? Lets face it, your papers are given away for a reason. And to hear an editor not employed by Canwest who actually admits to reading the National Post is quite interesting. But then I hear the Post is giving away many of its copies on a daily basis as well.

Lewis swift, you used to be like me. I mean, I was a regular poster in the SoundOff/Canada.com when I was totally banned since the beginning of October 2004. I hated the lies these people you mentioned above( Jaydee, Shane Matthews, SB, AsianDriver, Michael, Death to Socialism etc.)so I debated them all. I guess CanWest does not like facts and figures taken staight from StatsCAn so they banned me. Our newspapers(Vancouver Sun and the Province) have the moral obligation to present the people of B.C. with unbiased reports on the real health of our provincial economy. But as I read the paper everyday, with the exception of Michael Smythe and Vaughn Palmer who are always attacking the Liberals, they always make a front page headline if there is something positive that will help the image of the BC LIberal party win the election next year. The BC Liberal taxpayer- paid ads you see on TV and paper everyday on how good the BC LIberals are managing the economy are mostly benefiting CanWest media so we should question the association. The people of BC. deserves the truth.

Garry, just curious, did the soundoff people actually inform you of your ban or did they just stop posting. Lately, i've been getting though less than half the time. i tried calling "death to socialism" on his absurdity recently and i never got posted. perhaps, i should change my moniker from m to something else.

The big ommission in the article (surprising because of where it appears) is its failure to mention the internet. This is where the really lively writing and independent investigation and editorializing is to be found today...along with free subscriptions to the world's leading newspapers. And this impact is not limited to big shots or news corporations owned by tycoons. The "blogosphere" had a big impact on the U.S. elections...not big enough, but the trends are clear. Someday people will read an archive of this discussion and wonder at the blinders we have on. "Why were they surprised? Did they think people wanted to re-confine news reporting to specific buildings and locales, printed on paper products, published only after a delay, and costing money? And they were wondering why the conventional newspaper business was shrinking?" The real question IMHO should be: how do we make this superior medium, the internet, work for us and the people around us as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Yes, "allan", you don't have to worry about making errors, since unlike the people you slag, you are unidentified. David Black owns the papers, not the people, with minority interest from Torstar. I read the Globe as well as the Post, the Sun, the Telegraph and US papers, in particular those that support the Poynter Institute. Remember them? The point of this thread was supposed to be about making newspapers better.

Exactly, Russ. Most of the folks I know read specific online editions for their international current news, and others for national coverage. They have favourite sites for information about books or movie reviews. Magazines and ezines tend to be a superior media for indepth analyses on any subject. Most folks only read local papers for the local politics (city hall and infrastructure), local business, and 'what's on' features. Editors who want to increase their readership should improve the quality of expository writing and fact-checking at that level.

It's good to see Tom Fletcher that you know what the Poynter Institute is. When can we anticipate seeing some of it's advice on critical writing, ethics and, perhaps, the use of pictures of local politicians as favourable filler just before elections to start being reflected in the pages of David Black newspapers? BTW Tom, it's not honest errors that concern me, it's deliberate efforts to promote political friends and ignore opponents in the news pages that sort of get me wondering. Perhaps a bit of balanced and independent editorial effort would go a long way toward making newspapers better. Do you think David Black would ever go for that?

Allan, If you have any specific examples of political bias I'd be pleased to address them, say for instance this practice of filling the paper with favourable politician photos. But I have a hunch that your expertise is limited to anonymous smears. You're "concerned," but not enough to do any actual work, right?

Michael, I know what you mean but it would be professional suicide for them to formally exclude posters who post opinions contrary to what the Liberals are trying to brainwash the public with. But if you post everytime and rejected everytime then I know exactly what they are telling me. I'll give you an example of the things we read in the paper: "BC's unemployment rate lowest since 1981." But what they are not telling public is that the reason why unemployemnt is 6.4% is because "fewer people were participating in the labour force" which could mean that they simply given up looking for jobs. Employment is a completely a different issue. According to StatsCan figures, most provinces experienced little employment change in NOvember. Over the first 11 months of 2004. job growth above the national average occurred in New Brunskwick(2.3+), Nova SCotia(+2.0%), Manitoba(+1.6%), Ontario(+1.4%) and Saskatchewan(+1.3)and Prince Edwards Island(+2.3). Where is B.C. in the picture? I think it is deceptive to keep comparing B.C. to Canada becuase Canada's economic performace is affected by the weaker provinces like Nunavut, North Terrritories etc. They should compare B.C. to the top 5 provinces. If they do, then the public will quickly find that B.C. is number 6 in the bottom. Even Jim Patterson is saying B.C. is doing very well and he is saying "you're hired" on TV but two weeks ago in the papers, he plans to transfer his office to the U.S. if the Canadian dollar continues to go up. A clear indication that Liberal economic policies are totally useless.

Having spent the past year in Vancouver wondering what city the CanWest newspapers were reporting on -- it certainly wasn't Vancouver! -- I've found a refreshing change after moving to Whitehorse. There's media aplenty here. That means plenty of competition, and incentive for journalists to work hard and scoop each other, instead of the corporate newsrooms where hacks stare at the fax machine waiting for a press release. The virus of concentrated ownership and those annoying media emperors in Canada is not the only problem our news media has, but having given up on papers only to be mildly surprised that decent papers can still thrive in a small community, I say it's the first one we should try and cure. Why can a city of 20,000 support two papers, three radio stations, and a CBC TV bureau, while Vancouver allows its two dailies to be owned by the same company?

I made an interesting discovery today: that canada.com sound off posts are kept separate from province, sun, and times-colonist sound off posts. Whenever Canwest wants to test public opinion about gordon liar, it uses a canada .com sound-off, which is harder to find, and appears on the home page of electronic edition canwest newspapers, ONLY FOR ONE DAY, and thereafter, only as a link. THE WEBSITE ADDRESS, HOWEVER, IS IN PART: www.canada.com/vancouver/soundoff/views.html.

I found the gordon campbell versus ndp thread I first commented on about a week ago, and was highly gratified to find that the majority of posters were anti-gordon liar, and that the thread contained far less rote, memorized canwest viewpoints than expected. Gordon Campbell's failed policies; lies and heartless attacks on thre disadvantaged were also well documented. Anyone who thinks the ndp can't win the next procvincial election should definitely read this thread!

Tom Fletcher, I thought you would never ask. Perhaps you want to pull up the past two months of Kamloops This Week and count the number of photos of Liberal MLA Kevin Krueger and or Liberal MLA Claude Richmond. Funny, but their sudden popularity with photographers at that paper appears to coincide quite nicely with the Liberal Party's spending of public money on feel good ads. You know the ones Tom, those ads lauding the wonderful things Gordo's Liberals have done for BCers. Surely your paper got a few of those ads to run, didn't it? You see Tom I have a bit of a problem with a government that promises not to do something and then blatently turns around and does it. The only thing more unsettling is a compliant news media that will take the ad money, but will conveniently ignore the broken promises. What's that called Tom?

Russ there was a tyee article awhile ago by the georgia straight's dave watson with similar viewpoints to yours. Allan, david black's papers vary greatly, with some like the westender and Monday being proleft. Some however are like mr fletcher's -a waste of trees. Fletcher, both the national post and the sun could soon be up for sale. The majority of decent people saw through their lies, long ago. Vic, I think the michael posting here is ok, his posts are generally pro ndp, and balanced as well. Garry/Richmond, they can't really exclude people per se, but they can be very biased in posting rebuttals, etc.

Interesting article. About a medium which is going to be run over by the net in the next five years. Not challenged, not in competition: run over. Road kill.

I am working on a story which ties together the total loss of the 18-35 demographic, electric paper, RSS feeds and the end of newspapers. Should be finished this week.

Newspapers in general and the Asper chain in particular, do not get and do not like the net. They have left the arena by putting up their subscriber wall (for a paltry couple of thousand Audit Bureau subscribers as opposed to a couple of million uniques a month). They have not the slightest clue about blogging or RSS. They dumb down everything from book reviewing to hard news and utterly fail to embrace any diversity of opinion.

In a matter of a couple of years brands like The Tyee will be worth something. Brands like the Vancouver Province will be a market place joke. "What do you mean you can't put up a video of this year's model? How come I can't change the content of my ad dynamically depending upon who is reading it?"

Better still, not only are newspapers vunerable at the international, national and provincial levels: even the local rags are in for a stiffish dose of internet/desktop publishing/print on demand competition.

Remember that 60% of Canadians now have at home broadband access. Remember that WiFi hotspots are being created all over urban and suburban areas. Very quickly, the electronic infra structure is being put in place.

About the only hope the Sun has is to be sold to a tech savvy investor who will spend the dollars to shift the Sun away from its current terminal dullness and towards leveraging its fading brand on the net....but it is likely too late.

take a look at yesterdays times colonist if you can find it in your local library, there is a real touchy feely interview with the premier, with four photos of him at the bottom, and nice little captions! Oh no he says we didn't sell b.c. rail we did what is best for the people in the northern communities! If that isn't bias I don't know what is!

Jay, I suspect you are right even though my first(media) love is the newspaper. Hard to find a good one anymore although it seems those that are good are spreading out and covering the internet for cross media details that can certainly bring fast-paced breaking stories to your home before newspaper editors even decide when and if to run a story. Frankly, the only thing keeping the local rags operating are the increasing volume of fliers the papers deliver to homeowners. But many people are tiring of the volume of paper filling their mailbox that goes directly into the recycling box. Boy, can you imagine being an advertizing guy and having a list of thousands of e-mail addresses to direct your ads at. Change them immediately or offer different versions depending on the customer, time of day or income levels. It goes on and on. Perhaps the future will be paperless after all. ***Vick, you are going to have to get used to those touchy feely interviews with multiple photos well into May of next year. I'm anticipating it will get embarrassing for a lot of newspaper journalists who'll have to try to justify the wholesale bias to contacts. It won't be pretty unless, of course, you haven't seen enough mug shots of Gordon Campbell already.

I am trying to start my career in print journalism. I worked for one of Black's weeklies. That was cool. It's not like he drops in ever. I got to write basically whatever I wanted. Of course, it didn't pay. Then I went back to Ontario where it all went down hill. I was constantly told to bump my stories for unpaid business profiles and other crap that no one in their right mind would read unless their mom was mentioned in the story. Anything more controversial than a high school Christmas concert sent shivers down the spine of the screwed up editor. One day I said, hey, what about that unpaid illegal overtime and that was basically it for me. I think walmart has a better rep down at the labour board than most newspapers in Canada. Anyone need a writer that doesn't suck?

Man, those Christmas Concerts can be regular charnel houses of sensationalism, unemployed! I can see where your editor felt you needed to become properly embedded first, and why you now feel the need for a less stressful working environment. There's a contributors link on the upper lefthand corner of this page, thankfully. CBC takes pitches for radio scripts. There are lots of magazines which accept unsolicited manuscripts and provide writers' guidelines.

I don't see what we're all so concerned about, it doesn't seem that anybody here has any trouble coming to their own conclusions. Most of the people I talk to take major news outlets with a healthy grain of salt. I believe that the readers of the Globe and Canwest papers mostly know the respective biases and take them into account. However, in too many cases the criteria used by readers to determine a newsource's validity is simply whether they agree with the story's politics, truth be damned. Even the Tyee (which I value) has a definite slant. When the bias is in our favour we nod sagely in agreement with every point, but when it's against our views we light our hair on fire and complain about lack of journalistic integrity. This is where I give Michael Campbell credit, he encourages discussion. When someone who disagrees with him calls up 'NW on his call-in show, he gives them the time of day, and thanks him for his opinion. The same can't be said many on the 'other side' judging by some of these posts. I read with interest the article on the Tyee about the 'Inventors of Tax Rage', it had an effect on my position on the issue, just as many of the opinions from the right have merit. I worry less about the understandable decisions made by private businesses (Canwest et al) and focus more on a hope that individuals ease up on their personal biases in favour a valuable discussion.

Predictions of the end is nigh for newspapers? I don't think Mr Miller believes it, and I sincerely hope it doesn't come to pass, although too many newspaper owners all around the world are dumbing down their products. The format will likely change in this electronic age, although the major publications, as much as they're trying (convergence etc.), haven't figured out how to do it profitably. Yet. In the meantime there is an amazing amount of good journalism on the net, representing a wide diversity of viewpoints, if you take the time to hunt it down. For example, this site is usually well written and well edited; even if I don't always share the Tyee's politicalstance/opinions I find it informative (such as Miller's rather good story above, he called some good shots). On the other hand, in response to some of the postings here which have maligned the reputations of some of the traditional-style newspapers in the region: since the Tyee doesn't depend on advertising dollars (editor David Beers has bills to pay just like everyone else, no?), does that make the Tyee a more authoritative news source than the CanWest papers, or does it mean he's beholden to his backers (BC Fed) and thus the Tyee's independence of voice is just as wanting as the ones owned by the press barons?

Gee, Kurt. Why don't you ask David Beers? Was it only possible for him to start up this paper because BC Feds put up the capital, or did it just evolve that way because readers were sick of CanWest editorial pandering to the BClibs and gravitated to another point of view?

Kurt: The BC Fed is only one of our investors, and The Tyee's business model is to reach a level of readership that will support advertising. In just a year we have reached that threshhold, and will be seeking advertising in the new year. The net is different from printed media. You can print thousands of free weeklies, spread them around, and claim instant readership. On the web you have to built your readership one 'hit' at a time. That's what this year has been about. And that on a tiny investment compared to mega media outlets like Canwest or Bell. I'll be writing more about this in a upcoming editor's note.

Regardless of backers, The Tyee freely admits to a bias. I heard the editor speaking on CKNW, he described the mission statement as providing an alternative to the pro government media. Any reader should regard the Tyee with same sceptical eye as they regard the established media. That is not to say the content is not valuable, just not balanced. The contributors are seemingly selected to provide alternative opinions to counterweight the conservatives. Not simply alternative to the staus quo, but to the left of the status quo. (Not that there's anything wrong with that ;-)

Brad, I think it would be quite a feat to be on the right of "the status quo" in BC. A bias, you say? I call it fresh air.

Allan, I think you've just demonstrated my previous point: "in too many cases the criteria used by readers to determine a newsource's validity is simply whether they agree with the story's politics"

Brad: Actually, I believe that I said our mission statement was to hold the government accountable and report on other issues not given coverage by corporate media in B.C. That should be the job of any new media enterprise that seeks to engage and inform citizens.

Hi David, I am not denigrating the Tyee, as I said earlier I find it valuable. You can't pretend that the positions taken by contributors aren't left of centre. The question is whether that position on the spectrum would shift to the right if we had a labour government, or if it would stay the same. Whether the Tyee would be as assiduous in holding an NDP government's feet to the fire is only something that time and circumstance can tell us. We are getting of topic though, my original point is simply that the comments posted here suggest that the agenda/slant taken by larger media organisations are somehow different than the slant taken by more grassroots organisations. I am as discouraged by people who take the Georgia Straight's or the Tyee's positions without critical thought as I am with people who believe in the truth as laid down by the National Post. I don't know of any truly unbiased news sources.

Brad, this is a fancy little piece of tautology you've rigged up. What's the premise? That a newspaper's politic leanings should have NO influence or bearing on the readers' determination of its validity? I would dearly love to see any newspaper in this province held up as example of objective purity, as if there could ever be such a thing. Canwest might not cop to its neocon bias, but I think that readers have already voted 'with their feet' and more are deserting it weekly. Agreement with a particular political worldview may make a reader more sympathetic or predisposed to a writer, but if there is too limited a validity to the writing, it will either be contested or ignored. Lots of examples of that have shown up on these boards.

Hi Fox, my opinion is in fact that the politics of a news source should have significant influence on the reader's determination of the validity of the content. Moreover, if that bias is sympathetic with our own, then we should be extra careful when accepting its arguments. This is because we are much more willing to agree with ouselves than to disagree. As I said "I don't know of any truly unbiased news sources", but I don't believe that every opinion coming out of the Post is invalid any more than I belive every opinion here is valid. As far as tautology, I've always had a problem understanding the concept in practice. If you could use my argument to illustrate the definition I would appreciate your help.

Oops,that was me, I forgot to enter my name.

Your circular reasoning is whether validity is bestowed or negated by bias. I say it's a side issue. Sometimes it distorts the truth. Sometimes it is simply irrelevant. Yes, it is up to readers to determine the difference, but where your argument becomes fallacious and, frankly, offensive is where you state the bias of Tyee readers, because they openly describe themselves as 'left' of Canwest, calls their judgment into question. You also infer that your 'lack of bias' represents a more balanced view. The flawed premise is that Canwest is not extremist.

Excuse me, that's 'imply', not 'infer' --- long day and lots of computer work.

Fox, bias must call judgement into question. That is the definition of the word. As far as a lack of bias being a more balanced view, well... yes, that is the meaning of "lack of bias".

I agree that CanWest is far over to one side of the spectrum. So is The Georgia Straight, but we are more tolerant of the Straight. Why?

By whose standards do you lack bias, Brad?

Facts can be pretty straightforward, and arguments based on those facts judged as valid, invalid or inconclusive.

I haven't read the Georgia Straight for years, but why should I take your word that it truly represents the 'other end' of the spectrum. In comparison to some of the Northern European publications that are available, I would probably find it quite innocuous and centrist. Whereas CanWest papers read very much like the farthest rightwing publications one finds south of the border short of paramilitary publications like 'soldier of fortune.'

No I don't lack bias. I do hope that I lack ignorance of that bias. Facts are straightforward, and their interpretation is anything but. Take for example the Fraser Institute. When they come out with a study interpreting the facts as suggesting that a lower minimum wage is a good thing for BC we all roll our eyes and consider their bias. When the DFO says that the facts show that aquaculture poses no threat to wild salmon, we consider their conflict of interest. Facts are facts, but interpretation is not interpretation. I chose the Straight because I assumed you'd be familiar with it, and it removed the discussion from the "Tyee vs. the world" impression that I was leaving.

"...bias must call judgement into question. That is the definition of the word. As far as a lack of bias being a more balanced view, well... yes, that is the meaning of "lack of bias".

Freud: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." ie., sometimes what is, is simply what is.

I absolutely agree that one should call all arguments into question on the basis that bias may have skewed the facts. What I disagree with is that people who take the time to post comments which favour articles in the Tyee haven't already gone through this process.

I will take a look at the Georgia Straight, Brad, if it really offers another alternative. I think I had a quick glance at it on the internet and found that most of the articles were not relevant to people outside of the Vancouver / Lower Mainland area and dropped it from my reading list on that basis. By the way, do you read in German or Dutch?

Yes, that is my point Fox, the very first thing I said here was that it didn't seem any of us had any trouble reaching our conclusions about the true nature of the news presented my the major sources. I merely wish to point out that it is very easy to see through a bias that we are not inclined to agree with anyway, it's just part of proving our position. What we are not as good at is recognising our own flaws. For example, when trulib observed that "Union heads should steer away from belting out the same old rhetoric. It does more harm than good in achieving positive public opinion." Chevy responded that "Trulib, if you are thiniking that you can turn this thread into some anti-union action, think again." No consideration of the observation (granted it was off-topic), just discussion of "Campbell and his band of idiots"

German or dutch?

I guess some prior experience of the posters on this site can help. I was left with the impression, from another column, that Chevy was decidedly not in favour of Unions, so that remark could be taken as irony. "German or Dutch" -- if you were a fluent reader in these languages, I thought I might suggest some other news-sites, so you could have a sense of how moderate and damped-down our Canadian 'extremes' of socialism really are. I guess much of that has to do with never having experienced fascism firsthand.

David Beers: I respect your work and entrepreneurial spirit. I've been there and realize it's a tough slog. I wish you well.

I'm from Toronto but have lived out here for the past 20 years. The only thing I like better about Toronto than Vancouver is that they have a fine print newspaper there - the Star - that actually provides a diversity of opinion, while out here we are stuck with the god-awful drivel of the Sun and Province. Then again, on the brighter side of things we DO have the Tyee!

Nobody lacks bias. Everybody has opinions and agrees with everybody who has the same opinions. Once you've been lied to by somebody who's squatting on a position, you tend to mistrust that position forever, if you've been screwed over by somebody promoting a position, that's even more off-putting.

You just have to test things. Test reality. You check out all the opinions, look over all the evidence, then test it. Does it jibe with your own experience? Is there money involved? How does that play? What's happened in the past? You can do it. You can recognise and discount your own biases in favor of your best judgement, regardless of what you wish was true. To some extent anyway. Try it.

Read here, for high quality observations and honestly felt commentary in the discussions. Read elsewhere and see what's there too. Look around for indications. Give it all some thought.Decide what evidence there should be for each assertion, then see what evidence is there. Disregard name calling and labels, discount for your own bias.

Sites like this are a fantastic tool and resource. Noplace else can you hear what other people are really thinking and believing and experiencing in the society we all share. The whole Canwest/concentration-of-ownership thing has made it very difficult to get that. When we add our voices to this chorus, we strike a blow against that manipulation of information we all deplore.

Thank you David Beers. And by the way, I think your idea of publishing all this discussion unedited is brilliant.

I would like to express my appreciation for this site as well. Whether it is left or right isn't really the point , the freedom of exchanging ideas instantly and sharing knowledge is what makes this site so valuable. The articles are only a starting point for a discussion unlike the newspapers in BC where editors and columnists seem to feel the need to send a sermon to the rabble. Some of the worst of the patronizing comes from the free weekly rags. Tom Fletcher has at times sickened me with some of the positions he has taken and is a prime example of ignoring the overwhelming opinions of Canadians in order to spread an ideology that seems in direct opposition to the majority of the population. I believe that people are just tired of not seeing their concerns and their beliefs given the respect they deserve in the media, and they will continue to drift away until it changes or the papers disappear . David Beers , I believe that you have my email address and would appreciate knowing more about advertising on the Tyee. Specifically price structures, and graphic options. Thank-you.

Faith, I'm truly sorry if my comments have sickened you. I try to express a libertarian conservative philosophy that was, not too many years ago, considered mainstream in Canada. That was back when we were proud of our military history and our pioneer independence. My criticisms of ideas on this site were greeted with false ad hominem attacks, transferred casually from their usual target in Victoria. I'm pleased to see a serious discussion of any kind break out on this BC Fed project, but I doubt that it will last long. As for ad sales, good luck, Mr. Beers. You will need it.

What the hell does "pride in our military history and pioneer independence" have to do with the failure of your paper to move forward with the times, Tom? That sounds like a baseless ad hominem attack on Tyee readers many of whom have expressed their pride in our action during WWII and with the UN Peacekeepers.

Oh, I get it! We aren't getting our butts kicked in Iraq with the ill-starred, ill-equipped American Forces. So we should be ashamed. Fortunately most Canadians don't support the current American administration or its foreign policies, and that's why they are agitating like crazy for Paul Martin not to back up it's ploys for control of our atmosphere and outer space.

As for those 'ad hominem' attacks you accuse Tyee Readers of directing against you, better start backing that up, Tom. A quick read-through finds that accusations against your editorial position (which is what Tyee readers have criticized) are backed up with specific examples of the free publicity your paper provides to Neocon politicians and the despoilers they serve.

As for advertisers, they want to know there are readers around first and foremost to catch the ads. If you showed the slightest inclination or openness to consider what readers here have been posting, you would find ample and effective ways of broadening your readership base, but you seem to be more interested in being attached to an ideological position.

Uh, barking, your not-too-bright colleague in Kamloops passed off some supposition and innuendo about a publication he has by his own admission never seen. He also seems unaware that a "fart catcher," as any Frank reader knows, is a public relations or communications staffer. That's a more likely role for some of the anonymous media wannabes around here. Like him, you clearly prefer to chant your prejudices about the "despoilers" and their puppets running Victoria and the newspapers, which I suppose is fine with this site's BC Fed bankers. You have just done what you falsely accuse me of doing, and I'm sure you have a fancy academic word for that. Cheers, lads, I'm off to the Poynter Institute site instead. Honest, informed media criticism doesn't yet exist in B.C., certainly not here. I already get this site's message in my daily press releases from the public sector unions. Here's a prediction to leave you with: after the NDP loses the May election, this not-so-fiesty fish will be cut loose to sink or swim. B'bye.

The evidence of the 'despoilers' is all around the small urban centres near me, Tom:

- Boarded up businesses,- Families forced to pick up moldy loaves of bread left by the backdoor of the Salvation Army because their food-bank qualification meetings with government agencies aren't going through for whatever reason. One woman told me it was because her husband couldn't sell off the remnants of his painting business because no one wanted the old ratty equipment.- Whole sides of mountains scalped and the people who homesteaded under them for generations now required to truck in water because their once-pristine watersheds are destroyed,- schools closed and the decline in the communities around them,- no one with a clue where to go to get some medical attention for whatever malady just flared up,- the closure of a local surgery where heart attacks and premature births could once be served and who must now be helicoptered off to the nearest large city hospital for care at twice the price and with no loved ones near.

Shit, I could go on for hours.

On that alone, I figure we will keep seeing this news alternative site growing bigger and bigger, Tom -- especially if the BClibs are reelected for whatever godawful reason, and the province continues to be given away. B'bye and good riddance.

If you plan to understand what you read on the Poynter Institute site, it might be worthwhile to learn a few 'academic' words like 'tautology', 'fallacy' and 'flawed premise.' They are standard entry-level journalism terms.

Tom Fletcher, I never stated I was a high end light bulb, but I do have enough of a spark to appreciate the trash you churn out in your fart catcher. I did take the time to look at some of the stuff you publish, including the extremely provocative headlines above letters to the editor, especially when there is any mention of a union. By the way, you had asked me for examples of David Black newspaper bias and I mentioned the sudden popularity of Liberal MLAs as photo subjects. I haven't read a reply. But I noticed Liberal MLA's get pretty generous coverage in your own paper as well. I would be curious to learn if they were getting this much coverage a year ago. You are right about Frank's take on a fart catcher, but it seem to fit you it to a T as an unofficial cheerleader for Campbell and company. Tom, how can you really expect "honest, informed media criticism" to exist in BC," when it's extremely difficult to find any "honest, informed media" in BC? The Tyee isn't perfect yet, but it honestly admits to problems when they surface rather than trying to bullshit your way around the fact your paper is little more than a vehicle to sell Gordon Campbell's Liberals and to wrap around a bunch of fliers that you know, I know and everyone else but your advertisers seem to know are more often than not dropped immediately into the recycling bin. Better luck at the Poynter Institute Tom.

this is hilarious an editor from a print paper defending his paper and the media in general while making the prediction that the libs will get back in and thetyee will dissapear, well if gordo gets re-elected then I suspect there will be even more need to alternatives like thetyee! Face it fletcher people are fed up with the aspers and blacks of the world! I hardly ever read my local freebie paper, it ends up in the blue box unopened half the time!

Fletcher says; Here's a prediction to leave you with: after the NDP loses the May election, this not-so-fiesty fish will be cut loose to sink or swim. B'bye." Jeez no bias in you eh, this comment proves to me that you are extremely bias in favour of gordo and that you will help him to get re-elected with bias reporting! So much for giving us the news and letting us form our own opinion, you are as bad if not worse then those you critisize for not sharing your neo-con political views. Like you I am all for a strong military, if you are true Canadian why do you support the b.c. rail deal made behind closed doors, or the maximus deal considering the patriot act! gordo would happily sell us to the americans in my opinion, this is why I despise him!

the unions in this province were built by veterans willing to stand up and fight for the rights of working people!

Well, I DO read my four local indy freebies -- the Valley Voice, the Nelson Express, the Castlegar Citizen -- and the Pennywise (which is more of a classified ad weekly and can be highly and inadvertantly entertaining at times). They focus on local issues. Their editorial position is fairly neutral out of respect for the varied communities where they are distributed. They don't live in anyone's back pocket. And they are a thousand times more informative and interesting than the two Cannedwest dailies in this area of the West Kootenays.

I was working at skookumchuck on the expansion in the 90s, it was easier to find a alberta daily then a b.c. paper!

Great discussion. And I assert once again, mr fletcher, that your paper is unfit for a diarhetic vulture to void its bowels upon...you can always tell when a rightwinger is losing badly by his desperate and constant attempts to change the subject, preferably to a subject as emotionally charged as possible, like war veterans, who we ALL can be rest assured did not fight for a government like the BC liars with its FACIST propaganda machine, neodarwinian economic policies, unending lies, and constant willingness to assault the vulnerable to PIMP for the priveleged. Mr fletcher, you and your newspaper are a disgrace..., why not just rename your publication "Five Miles Up Gordon Campbell's Ass...?

You folks are pretty hard to talk to, unless the talker shares your views on the world. I wish ther was someplace to go for those of us that aren't enamoured with the actions of the current Liberal government, and also recognise that the NDP's faults were as extensive, only different. Isn't it more enjoyable for you to discuss these issues with someone who has a slightly different take? I'm new here but I gather from these posts that Mr. Fletcher shares these same aforementioned faults of intolerance. The biggest problem that I have with the current government is that I no longer feel I can trust them. They have demonstrated (I think) an atitutde that think they know better than the general populace what is best, and that they are prepared to mislead us for our own good (e.g the BC Railbed 'lease'). Trust is vitally important, but the ridiculousness of Joy McPhail, doesn't seem to me to be much improved upon by Carol James. She may be trustworthy, but what are qualifications? Everything I hear from her is entirely reactive, not proactive. She condemns the actions of the liberals simply because the Liberals did them. Surely not everything any government does can be all bad. What is the general feeling here about Carol James' qualifications to run this province?

Brad, when the Liberals were in power, they criticized, chastised and cursed the NDP about the expansion of gambling in B.C. Now that they are short of cash, they expanded gambling 9x more and worse, they do not have the integrity or honesty to accept their deed. It is these continuing layers of lies that thickens into a solid dung of moral corruption, unacceptable in a party that promised an open and transparent government. Their tax cut is intended to put more money in people's pockets designed to improve consumer confidence hence, the economy but how can you improve consumer confidence when their disposable income is depleted by increased in MSP premiums,tuition fees, ICBC rates, BC HYdro, fees, and everything they can think of to balance their budget and worse- defeats the purpose of their tax cut. No, it is not stupid. It is dumb. Can you imagine food in the hospitals is now non-edible thermalized saran wrapped throw-aways? They also lied about the provincial debt. Gary Collin keep saying $37 billion when in fact it is more like $40 billion. Any person who knows how to count their toes and fingers will ask you, how did they balance the budget with so much debt? I'll tell you: they borrowed it. And don't blame Joy McPhail. We only have two non-recognized opposition in the legislature and she has to do her job and she did it extremely well. I think Carol James will do a good job because she is following the success of two NDP provinces: Saskatchewan and Manitoba which are now outperforming B.C. in employment and all key economic indicators. Read the StatsCan. You seem pretty hard to talk to unless youn share the views of the people affected by the hardship brought on by the Liberal policies.

Brad, like you I'm still waiting to hear something substantive about James. At the moment, I'm ABC -- anything but Campbell. I don't even have enough of a sense of who James is or what she represents to compare her, favourably or un- even with Joy McPhail. James is in the unenviable position of trying to create a name for herself as head of a very small legislative opposition -- something I can understand very well: I lived in Alberta during the Clarke government. A Neocon majority, especially one that gets in through virtual acclamation decade after decade, is the worst possible government: completely opaque, unaccountable, pigs-trough politics.(If Alberta didn't keep hemorrhaging its massive fossil fuel resource base, there wouldn't be much of an economy to speak of.) Under that regime, one never hears about the opposition either. Particularly after Southam, then the Aspers started to control the media. But no, I'm not set on James yet, except by default. I AM set on a progressive government.

As for the 'talking to' bit, I expect it does take some courage to put forward opinions which could held as a minority position. All I can say to that is stand up and be counted. I don't agree with every article or opinion either.

Correction: When the Liberals were in opposition.

I know what you mean. But listen a minute. The 2 seats the NDP hold are the only opposition there is to monitor a secretive and rather duplicitous government. Now any parliament must have an effective opposition, or it's a dictatorship. No debate, you see? Debate is essential to any Parliament. That's why Official opposition status brings with it funding for many researchers and staff. When a clean sweep has happened in the past, a unanimous party has even appointed an opposition from it's own members, that's how important and difficult a thing it is. True parliamentarians know this.

These Liberals refused to fund the McPhail/Kwan block appropriately, so contemptuous are they of parliamentary custom and tradition.

I've watched these two women fight through the night with little support against the Liberal outrages, breaking contracts, exempting themselves from the consequences of the damage they would do, selling off the assets three generations of BC carefully preserved, abusing the elderly and infirm. They have been absolutely valiant, against not just overwhelming odds, but the certainty of defeat at the hands of people delighted to be strong enough in their position to brush aside decency, democracy, all second thought with a sneer and a contemptuous laugh.

What qualifications does it take? Above all experience and high-blown connections I'll take honour, honesty and a willingness to represent all, even those who don't like you. Does Carol James have those qualifications?

good points Bailey I have watched liberals sitting behind Mcphail and Kwan hissing booing and insulting like school yard bullies! I am disgusted with how badly the liberals treat those two! I want democracy back in this Province with a properly funded opposition, I do like Carol James after talking to her at a local fair I think she will do ok. Any thing but gordo!

Hi Garry/Richmond, I know we can all put together a list of things we think the government shouldn't have done, or could have done better. My concern is when those criticisms come forward without the presentation of any plausible alternatives. It is too easy for us to list off the negatives in comparison to an imaginary alternative where everything is just simply better. But how do we achieve this better state of affairs? In the past the NDP has simply thrown money at things, and even where that has worked, I'm not convinced of the long term viability of that approach. Too much of what I hear is criticism without alternatives, any fool can tear down a bridge, it takes someone rather more clever to build one.

This is a little off topic as we were discussing newspapers so in an attempt to marry the two subjects - -- the comments of Brad infer to me at least, a passive acceptance of the media protrayal of the NDP and their record while in government. Rather than throw money at problems the NDP bowed to corporate pressure to reduce welfare benefits , hold teachers to low raise long term salary agreements, and lower taxes for small business while giving tax incentives to start up ventures such as the high tech sector and the gas and oil exploration industry. The NDP took this province through the early 90's with growth in the economy while the rest of Canada plunged into recession. Could we have done without the fast ferries ? -absolutely Could we have presented a little less belligerence towards Ottawa -a la Glen Clark- and won a little more support instead of animosity?- of course Was the province , the sun, the liberal party organisation, and the business community at large ,out to work together to oust the NDP at any cost? you bet, and they used a complicit and paid for media machine to do it - and they are still doing it- and there are still people falling for it as in Brad and a few others. As long as they can use the media effectively to win a much bigger prize (*control of a resource rich province) business and neo-conservative politicians will look at the loss of profit in the print media sector as a cost of doing business.

You seem to be willfully missing it. Nobody's talking about a few negatives. It a massive and organized assault on the principles of parliamentary democracy, the property and the wishes of the people, and a near criminal conspiricy level program of transferring public funds into certain private hands. I say 'near' only because I lack a legal staff, not out of lack of conviction.

The only bridges these people have built are to private bank accounts out of sight of the Auditor General.

Newspapers fascinate me and I have always devoured the articles that in years past Malcolm Parry, as editor of Vancouver Magazine, would perennially commission on the state of our local papers. Not so long ago the Tyee editor, David Beers, wrote his own piece on the state of the Vancouver Sun. He knew about what he wrote as he had been within. The comments that I read in the Tyee (the articles themselves are good) are filled with partisan diatribe by people who don’t even dare to use their name. Sooner (much sooner, than later) these comments are about neo-cons, the dastardly liberals and the evil Canwest Empire. I find constant criticism of the Sun’s lower standards paradoxical as those who comment do so with no style. Most are spelling impaired. The criticism of our local newspapers never seems to include an analysis of style and content. It seems to be only about politics. While I would consider myself to be from the gentle left, that does not stop me from not only savouring Maureen Dowd but also the beautifully written essays by William F. Buckley.

“Common Ground: Global Media” at http://www.dragonflymedia.com/cg/cg3112/globalmedia3112.html

Interesting piece and very relevant, judging by the extended reaction. At Ryerson back in the late 80s, the broadcast media were seen as the main challenge to the survival of daily newspapers. They've survived by becoming more "corporate": more efficient, more strategic, more cynical in approaching and delivering news as just another "product". The Web now poses a new and interesting challenge. Alternative, interactive outfits like The Tyee owe their success not only to the opportunity afforded by a new medium, but to our disenchantment with what the traditional news outlets have been forced to become.... Competition can sharpen the product but desperation creates an increasingly distorted caricature. We've always had bias, but news outlets now compete by flaunting provocative columnists, hosts and extremist views--it's just another tool to attract audience in one's selected target market, like sensationalism or "underground" Blogging. What's being lost in all this, as John Miller suggests, is that most precious ingredient--credibility.... My first real job out of Ryerson was a junior partnership on a 10-month investigative project. It now seems incredibly wasteful, but that disdain for efficiency made it far easier for an average reporter to cover complex topics with some depth, balance and credibility. Our reports were also tediously long, though not as long as wading through the above to hear different sides of the story.

Alex Waterhouse-Hayward, you are as negative as anyone who pops in here every so often to plunk your version of wisdom upon us. The Sun may have been a good read way back when, but then ocean travel used to be a quick way to get to Europe. That you should be surprised much of the criticism in this forum of that Aspertamed rag is political, is really quite amazing. You see Alex, it's all connected. As long as we have media that will act as gleeful whores for politicans, the problems of the "spelling impaired" is only going to get worse(BTW, go back and reread some of your own posts from the view of an editor before tossing any more stones). Perhaps in your rage against our political diatribes, you've missed the point that most of us have concerns as well about what this government is doing to the education system. If you don't understand that it too is political, then you either haven't paid attention or you don't really give a damn.

I believe that the article in which these comments appear has nothing to do with the education system. It is about newspapers. It is particularly scary to see so many of you (in plural) to be so bitter and aggressive. While I don't condone or defend the middle road or the extremist right wing, you guys pretty well scare away all effort at having a civilized conversation. Preaching to the converted must be frustrating.

I am so weary of people that try to equate the bc liberals and the ndp. For them to be EVEN VAGUELY COMPARABLE, the ndp would had to bring in legislation (passed in the middle of the night) FORCING the unionization of every nonunion shop in BC. They would have HAD to increased corporate and high income taxes without warning and nationalized half the private corporations in bc. And then instead of using canwest media for their propaganda, like the bc liars, they would have had to ban the paper from the province all together, THEN, they'd be equal to the bc backstabbers. Perhaps you'd be good enough to tell all us left wing dupes at the tyee just what YOUR income was last year, alex waterhouse hayward, any relation to the corporate firm, Waterhouse Price?

Alex W-H, sorry to disappoint you, but everything has to do with the education system. Perhaps if you didn't come to the forum with your built-in pompous, privilaged and increasingly arrogant view of the world, you might just grasp the linkage. And do please enlighten me as to what the "soft left" is all about. Might it be the type that mouths platitudes of concern about those in need while cheering wildly for those so special tax cuts the not so soft right offers to those that don't have to toil each day for a basic income? But then perhaps we should have all got ourselves a good education just like your parents provided you with. Oh, sorry for bringing that issue up again. Back to newspapers for a minute. Perhaps you could tell us why three days after Gary Collins quit the second most powerful position within the Liberal party, under a very dark cloud of suspicion as to why people he hired and brought in to work in his office are facing multiple police investigations and charges, yet the Sun is still playing out its charade that Collins is simply hoping to spend more time with his family?

No matter what the subject -- newspapers, global warming, literature, the weather of the day, human relations, you name it -- Lewis & Co. have an opinion. Or rather, the same opinion over and over again. Some may find it monotonously repetitive, semi-literate, paranoid, intellectually insulting, but Lewis & Co. are the guardians and sole repositories of received knowledge and know better than we hyphenated and contrarian plebes. Deal with it.

I read and write more in a week than you could manage in 6 months, kurtsy....

Sigh. I'm beginning to feel like the John Cleese character in the Monty Python skit... and your point is?

Alex, I'm back one more time only to pay my respects to you. These guys don't even know who you are. Allan is busy with his college class doing a bogus content analysis of the Kamloops This Week, designed to fulfil a pre-determined conclusion. Kurt, you should also join me in finding a more productive use of your time. Saving newspapers is an important task, and we should put our energies someplace that will actually help to do that.

The betrayal of the newspaper by the people who changed them into instruments for spreading disinformation and deception have made them practically unsavable. They are losing credibility by the hour, and without that they're nothing but ads and flyers.

I note that you came here to see if you could save yourselves. That's a fairly telling fact by itself about where the people are looking now for relevant news.

Tom Fletcher, what have you been smoking? I don't have a college class, a high school class nor even much class. I would think it's just marvelous if you and Kurt were to run off to help save newspapers. Yes, it is an important task and it's only going to get more important, isn't it?

Gary Collins and the gordon backstabber continue to get their BUTTS KICKED on the two Canwest sound-off threads at www.canada.com/vancouver/soundoff/view.html. A province newspaper of a day or two ago was so desperate they actually ran a letter by someone who still believes gordon liar has fixed the bc economy. Go to the soundoff threads however, and the number of people who see through bc liberal lies is startling! And all this on both the collins thread, AND the campbell versus james thread, where canwest had the unmitigated NERVE to refer to the properous era of the nineties under the ndp "as bc's dark past." Not only are posters seeing through the lies there, they are kicking the right's bleeding hypocritical asses in debate there as well. Poster after poster states they do not believe a word of propaganda in the taxpayer funded lies the bc filth are attempting to ram down out throats using canwest newspapers as their lying, backstabbing instrument. I predict both defeat for the bc backstabbers and law suits against their CORRUPT corporate and media supporters...

Yeah, kurt, the john cleese character WAS a pompous, overbearing, dimwitted, backstabbing twit, who thought he knew everything. Your identification with the character is hardly surprising....

Funnily enough, John Cleese just won a major libel settlement from a newspaper which referred to him in the past tense... Lewis, to paraphrase Mr Atkinson's response to Dr Samuel Johnson, may I extend my warmest contrafibulations on managing a complete sentence without spelling or grammatical errors. You are making progress and I feel some pride in taking some of the credit.

Just keep lying to yourself, basil, it's really the only thing you're any good at...lots of writers use sentence fragments, stupid; once you know what the rules are, you can break them. Note, how this differs basil, from the bc liberal strategy, of making up the rules as you go along, and then contradicting yourself constantly, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE LAST LIE YOU TOLD WAS. Far better sentence fragments, than fragmented ideology, ethics, intelligence, human decency, and empathy, like that possessed by bc backstabber shills like yourself...Read e.e. cummings, stupid.

I'll let you have the last word, Lewis.

Promise?

Absolutely.

Well, the news is in! David Basi, good friend of former finance minister Gary Collins, has been charged with accepting a bribe and fraud in the BC Rail privatization deal (to go along with the drug trafficking charges of last month). I am interested in seeing how the Sun/Province covers the fact that Collins actually chose THIS guy to be his ministerial assistant. Robert Virk was also charged. I am wondering why BC taxpayers have had to pay his wage for the past year even though he stopped working. I wonder what Skulsky and Reynolds and their pro-tax cuts reporters will have to say about this. I still chuckle about the different treatment this story would have had in CanWest outlets if the players had been Glen Clark, Moe Sihota, and Joy MacPhail rather than Campbell, Collins, and Christy Clark.

Well said, Paul.

The editorial of the Vancouver Sun/Province still use the primitive method(Roman empire) of influencing public opinion. For Example, Thumbs UP: For the BC LIberals for balancing an already balanced budget and also creating a staggering $2 billion surplus, half of it a "gift" from the Federal gov't. Thumbs Down: On the NDP party for launching a negative ad campaign against the Gordon Campbell for his pathological lying. Thumbs Up: For Gordon Campbell for not changing his mind on the May 17,2004 provincial election since 16 MLAs already left the caucus and some members still contemplating to abandon the ship. Thumbs Down: On CArole James for being inexperienced. I heard Arnold Schwazinigger is doing better than his experienced predecessor. Thumbs UP: On BCBC, CAnwestmedia,Coalition of BC Business, BC Ass'n. of Restaurants, Canadian Taxpayers Federation for making headline reports in the Province and Sun almost every week since May on how the BC economy is booming and BC is the best place on earth without statistical data to support the underlying economy.Thumbs Down: On Jim Sinclair and the Canadian Federation of Labour and BCTF for launching a house to house campaign to defeat the BC Liberals in the Panorama ridge by-election in Surrey- simply not acceptable.This idea of thumbing Up or down on issues without allowing people to debate the issues is primitive and also a Thumbs Down.

Correction: May 17, 2005 provincial election. Thumbs UP: On Gary Collins for leaving the Finance Ministry with a surplus and becoming the CEO of Harmony Airlines, the airline with only five aircraft. Thumbs Down: On Jim Patterson for saying that "BC is the best place on earth and you're hired on TV" but threatens to move his office in the U.S. if the economy continues to weaken due to soaring interest rates. Let's drink beer to all these crap. Cheers!

The best way to deal with uncertainty is to know as much correct information as you can to be able to prepare for that uncertainty when it comes. The BC LIberals, the papers and the so-called experts(The Economic Forecast Council) are feeding us with the wrong information as to what the economy would be like this year 2005. According to many leading U.S. economists, the economic outlook for 2005 will be marginally lower because of rising interest rates and fear of inflation from oil prices which will have a dramatic effect on housing construction( this is in the U.S. so there will be less demand for our wood products). We know that jobs in BC come mainly from construction and increased consumer spending is basically related to construction because of increased sales in appliances and furnitures. On the Canadian side, the rise of the Canadian dollar will hurt export,tourism and manufacturing in 2005 which will possibly reach 85 cents. Bank of Canada already lowered their forecast for 2005. CHMC is already predicting a lower housing sales activity for 2005. Even energy exports are expected to decline by 3 per cent in 2005.The B.C. economy has its umbilical cord connected to the U.S. economy so it is better to expect the worse than be over-confident and feel stupid at the end. Most of the economic forecast by these Banks in the past were wrong and were downgraded. If the economic tsunami comes, it is better to be on top of the hill than believing somebody who just wants to win the election in May. I am not an expert but I read all the reports from other sources. The economic spin-off of the Olympics is expected to kick-in in 2005. If it doesn't happen, pin it on the Liberals forehead and other liars.

Newspapers have always reflected the bias of their owners and always will. The Toronto Star has a liberal board and this is reflected in its middle-of-the-spectrum content. The Globe and Mail is moderately right for the same reason and the Asper Kingdom, fart to the right.

This whole notion of media "objectivity" was developed alongside the "professionalization" of journalism (or basically when it was thought it would make a good Master's degree).

What has changed is the proliferation of media and a generally more media savvy public. Newspapers aren't going anywhere. Radio was supposed to spell the end of newspapers. TV was supposed to kill radio. The computer was supposed to displace newspapers. The internet will displace newspapers and kill TV. What has alwasy happened is that these technologies exist side-by-side and create a generally more savvy public. There are enough people who agree with the Aspers that they will buy their product. Let's hope that there are enough who disagree with them that a Torstar is encouraged enough to take a shot in this market.

A free morning commuter tabloid anyone?

It would be helpful if everyone could make the same effort as they are here to demand a public commission on media concentration from the powers that be in Ottawa. Put these public servant to work, then perhaps you can have your concerns acknowledged a meaningful way (for starters anyway).

Excellent idea, KJ.

Hey, Lewis Swift...Whadya think? Am I the only one who's weirded out by the Georgia Straight's two hundred million ads? It seems as though they'd be well-positioned to develope a real alternative press, unstead of this irritating ode to secure money. Sure, they have a few writers of integrity and skill, but I think it's a shill game.

Paul in East Van. I was going to say all that stuff, but you beat me to it. Good on you!

Lewis Swift no longer posts at the Tyee, as a protest against the Tyee's refusing to carry fair commment about BC's judiciary, which swift regards not only as CORRUPT, but also as being in the back pockets of the BC "liberals..." the Tyee seems TERRIFIED of such remarks, which are after all, no more that a democratic expression of opinion...perhaps if the Tyee would EXPLAIN why the judiciary can never be criticized, or why the BC Fed can't GET OFF ITS ASS and defend free speech, rather than treating posters like Swift who have grapppled with rightwing thugs whom Beers would not have lasted a paragraph with, while David Beers spends his time and influence, publishing his buddy's ENTIRE NOVEL, Too Many Georges, for 6 MONTHS IN A ROW in the Tyee, thereby shutting out all other fiction submissions, hell, why don't you ASK DAVID BEERS, you'll probably find him schmooozing with Norman Spector....

Me thinks Vaughn Palmer has somehow figured out that polarized politics go hand-in-hand with a polarized media (which fits in nicely with the that confounded chicken-n-egg debate), and so now wants to reform his ways by backing away from his forte - thus no more skewering punditry against the reigning government - or else he's working to prove correct his prediction (agenda?) that the NDP will lose the upcoming election. Case in point, did anyone notice in today's column how he treated the Vinning affair as some sorta low-level slip up in the B.C. Liberals election campaign, rather than as an abuse of power by the Premier's Office, as was noted on the adjacent page by some unknown reporter? Did ya? I use to give him the benefit of doubt, but now... "poof"

I always thought Palmer was over rated KJ, but one thing he said about the premier, possibly in the same article, although it was somewhat veiled, made me smirk a little. I think at least twice Palmer referred to something about the premier's love for, his being a sucker for "sychophancy," ie, sucking up, especially in the most mindless and SPINELESS way, as did Vinning. This was couched in quite formal language amd I thought it MAY, have even suggested an artfully veiled contempt for the premier, although I am certainly NOT holding up Mr Palmer as any kind of hero. I also found it interesting that Palmer wrote a piece recently detailing why Geoff PLant will "probably" or "may resign," thereby easing his defection. I could be wrong, but I would suggest this means that a lot of insiders KNOW DAMNED WELL that Plant's stepping down... what do you think??

I began reading VP right after the BC Libs took power. He seemed to be a consistent and accurate mainstream critic of both the party and its decisions - without pulling punches. Veiled wisecracks are ammusing, but not much more. Instead, for example, I rather VP looked at if - or by how much - Campbell's internal support is hemorrhaging going into the election, rather than having him couch his criticisms. VP has the wherewithal to tease out and expose Campbell's archilles heal - internal dissatisfaction - if he chooses. But it's his choice not to. And why would he? He's already put his reputation on the line by publicly declaring that the BC Libs will win the next election. And just how will they do that if VP is focusing on their leader's less credible characteristics - like using his office to hire a high-profile Indo-Canadian campaigner right before the election in order to shore up support in that population, and on the public payroll no less? Or the fact that with Plant's expected departure, regardless of the reason, along with the others, Campbell will be proposing to run this province with an essentially unproven band of upstarts. VP is exposing himself, as everyone does, not from what he says, but for what he doesn't - and how! This is a problem for the public whenever it loses a reasonable voice to partisanship. And with VP's reputation, many will unfortuately swallow his soft shoe deflections away from what the Campbell's BC Libs really are: a white-collar version of Glen Clark's blue-collar sham.

There's been a lot of comment on Campbell's incredible stupidity about Vinning Prem (sp?) but the most obvious and damaging points continue to be overlooked, possibly because many of them skirt libel issues, and of course, due to Canwest's never ending G. Cambell sychophancy. How it is that the premier, did not recognize Prenning's voice, which Mcphail and others recognized immediately -he is said to heve a VERY distinctive voice- this perhaps could be resolved by those psychologists who have nearly mastered the art of micro-facial expression analysis. I'm serious, there IS such science and it is becoming increasingly well developed. Also not dealt with in Canwest, OR in the Tyee as of yet, is yet another blow to the liberal's so-called ethnic vote, which the Suurrey Panarama Ridge election shows was already slipping badly. I do not presume to speak for the East Indian community, but it seems to me, that when NEARLY every prominent member of your ethnic community that has anything significant to do with the BC liars, winds up either in COURT, or in scandal and resignation, that voter support from that community is definitely going to be affected. Moreover, the Campbell governmnent's treatment of ethnic communities in BC has been generally disrespectfull -Ida Chong is the sole non white male in a position of power in an IMPORTANT cabinet portfolio -education, and it took 3 and 1/2 years for that to occur. Remember the Vancouver Civic election when BC liar friendly interests desperately took out FULL page ads, I believe on the front pages of ethnic community newspapers, for a vote that utterly failed to materialize? As a CBC commentator said, Campbell's talk show phone in mess is HIGHLY LIKELY to reduce critical ethnic support for the BC LIARS in at AT LEAST TWENTY RIDINGS...