And now, something substantive

It does make sense to keep a close eye on the funding of the Games, particularly the government's continued head-in-the-ground insistence that, despite all evidence to the contrary, B.C.'s contribution will not be more than $600 million. It's a lie, and they know it. It also makes sense to press the government to ensure the Games will be socially responsible, to the extent that's possible.

What doesn't make sense is agitating to prevent the Games from coming. That train has left the station. It will take a huge catastrophe before the IOC would ever allow the event to be moved, at which point we would have already spent a huge chunk of cash which would have no payoff. Yes, we'll be throwing good money after bad, but there is at least the prospect of some return.

Jonagold

There's an assumption in your analysis that, having already thrown much good money after bad, the prospect of doing more of that is a good idea.

I have several acquaintances who own(ed) large sailboats...like the Olympics, there never is a payoff. Eventually they got tired of washing money down the drain while taking a cold shower. They found another sucker and sold at a loss. Small, trailer-able day sailers are quite another matter.

In addition, they've been much happier, and wiser, friends ever since.

It's really a question of how long, and how much, you want to pay for a party.

Given the recent announcement about relaxing the rules on foreign temporary workers in British Columbia, I'm not the least bit sanguine about any of the long-term "benefits" from this nonsense.

cohorts

As to your observation about cohorts, I agree completely...even if the people in the group picture were all the same age, which I suspect is unlikely, they would only comprise a single cohort.

Olympic Binge party

It isn't the Olypics per se that are disturbing. It is when their enormous expense is contrasted with the disnterest in the homeless that one recoils. To so eagerly embrace spending billions for a three week party; while being so miserly with helping disenfranchised families. What does that say about our society. Not much.

Thank you Monte and The Tyee again and again for being the voice of real media!!

This is what The Tyee does best. Five stars.

This is the kind of journalism which made The Tyee such a big fish in the early waters of alternate media.

It's good to see the return of that kind of work -- asking who benefits? who pays? -- and making it clear that there's a dark underside to these awful games.

Many of us no longer have respect even for the Olympic Games themselves, which have gone way beyond sportsmanship to the point where the athletes are used like animals, pushed beyond normal endurance or pumped with carefully concocted life-threatening pharmaceuticals. The Olympics show off wonderful young people being used and abused for entertainment as cruel as cock fighting and bull fighting ever were.

It's about time that the people who will be paying the bills -- and the bills will be huge -- had some decision-making power over these Five Ring Circuses.

I can guarantee that the following "discussion" will break sharply into two camps, like life itself.

Thanks to Monte Paulsen for this story, to The Tyee for publishing it, and of course to Conrad Schmidt for his film, "Five Star Circus". Each element is greatly needed and much appreciated.
.

Grammar cops, check your dictionary

co·hort (khôrt)
n.
1. A group or band of people.
2. A companion or associate.
3. A generational group as defined

Calm Heads Must Prevail

Well put BC Mary.

The Olympics are coming whether anyone likes it or not, but something everyone has to remember is that sometimes the Olympics works well for a community. Granted, it's rare, especially recently, but the impact that the Olympics has on a region is directly proportional to the strenght of the local political scene and its politicians.

Unfortunately here in Vancouver / Whistler, our politicians do not share strong bonds between our different communities within our region, and for the most part they use small-town attitudes to address a global issue.

Over the last three and a half years, and at considerable expense, I researched and wrote a book that addresses how 2010 will impact our region. It's a very complex book, but written in a "2010 for dummies" format so politicians would be able to understand it. I sent them all a copy and they ignored me.

I also wanted the average person to be able to see what was coming their way, and give them time to digest and react to the issues that would affect them directly. It is the first time in history that a book of this sort and scope has ever been published before the Games came to town, and before the damage was done, but unfortunately, not one local newspaper has given me even one line of space in their publications regarding my book.

They have all interviewed me, but as soon as they discover that I implicate local news media in the process, they pan me. They don't want to be identified as Olympic boosters, but the reality is that local news media have already made a fortune regarding 2010 by simply reporting the controversy, whether they are pro, or anti-Olympics. Controversy sells news, and news sells advertising.

I do have to commend three local publications though for helping me promote my "solution." Although they do not mention my book, "BC Business Magazine, The Globe and Mail, and Business Edge" have all given me space to let the community know that we do have a choice, and that there is a solution.

Unfortunately local publications are still too gun shy to get on board regarding my book, but once they see greater public sentiment turning against the Games they will investigate my solution in greater depth. Hopefully though it won't be too late.

My book illustrates that our community has has a choice in how we manage the Games.

This is a new era, and we have new tools. We no longer have to be held for ransom by local news media who are already making a fortune off of the 2010 Olympics. The Vancouver Sun, the Georgia Straight, and all other local news media publish many articles regarding 2010, and in every single publication they sell advertising.

Where does it say in the Olympic Bid book that Vancouver / Whistler was to become one more sacrificial virgin on the IOC alter?

We now have access to YouTube, and Yahoo video, and all the other online publications like The Tyee.

My solution is simple, but my message is confusing because I am Pro-Olympic. I just don't think our community should suffer for the Games, and I strongly maintain that "if we have to pay for it, we should also benefit."

If you have an uncle in your family that is abusing the kids - talk about him to the rest of the family and to other families in your neighborhood. If you continue to keep it a secret he will continue to abuse.

The best defense against all Olympic organizations is to tell everyone around the world what is happening here.

Most people do not realize that the IOC has a very hard time finding regions to host the Games.

Vancouver / Whistler didn't really "win" anything. Many cities would not even consider hosting an Olympic event because they know the downside is too steep and precarious.

It's also not as cool as it used to be to be an Olympic sponsor.

It was a good deal when all that Visa, RBC, HBC, or NBC had to worry about was local protest, but how do you think they feel today when they know that Vancouverites can reach around the world in a nano second and tell a prospective host city to think twice about subjecting their region to the hell we are facing here?

If the IOC can't attract sponsors, they can't host an Olympic event. They won't quit, because it is too lucrative, but they will change how they manage the Games, and they will make it more equitable for our host region if they think we are undermining their future revenue stream.

If MP3 was able to undermine big recording companies that were also abusing their customers, what makes the IOC think that host communities can't do the same thing here? There's a first for everything and my solution wants Vancouver/Whistler to be that first. I want it to be win win win for everyone including VANOC, RBC, and our community.

If you want to manage the Games in our community you have to think locally and act globally.

It's easy to whine here in The Tyee, but if you want real impact, take your comments to forums that are international in scope. Create links to this page. Make it harder for the IOC to find the next sacrificial lamb.

I'm not going to tell you the name of my book or blog because I don't want to abuse my provilage here on the Tyee, (who ironically have also not given me even one electron of space to talk about my book or solutions - I think it's because I referred to them in my book as TheTyee.com instead of .ca. My stupid mistake.), but if you're really interested in finding a solution and not simply whining, call "Duthie Books" on 4th and ask for the book that describes how our region can more effectively "leverage Olympic momentum." They started stocking it last week.

One last thing, Olympic protesting in the traditional way never works - ever. The IOC and the government, who are Olympic partners have been through this many times before and they know exactly how to manage protesters. Olympic protesting always turns violent and it is very expensive to the community, plus it never attains results.

Peace

Maurice Cardinal

Editor

cohort
OED - 3. A company, a band, esp of people united in some common purpose,
b. A group of people having a common statistical characteristic, esp. that of being born in the same year.
4. A taxonomic grouping ranking above superorder and below subclass.

Anyway, that's a bit pedantic - but equally accurate.

In any case, the singular would have been - accepting your definition - more correct. It's not a big deal and no, I am not nor have I ever been, the spelling and grammar police.

LOL

My view.

2010 Should Become a Global Forum for Anti-Poverty Protests

If I had the connections and where-with-all, I would exploit the 3 weeks in Feb. 2010 to stage the biggest Anti-Poverty protest the world has ever seen. With the ever more cavernous divide between those that have versus those that do not, it is time to put an end to the indifference shown by all who are either too comfortable or too ignorant to do something about it. There is not doubt that the Olympics divert huge sums of money into an Imperial or Roman style of entertainment at the expense of virtually every other social interest.

We are coming to a breaking point where the average working family can no longer sustain themselves even with two incomes in Vancouver. And the appalling thing is that a smaller and smaller macro-minority hoard the disgustingly decadent benefits while the greater majority are told to “eat cake”. The only way now to effect change is with a significant and unignorable stand and loud voice.

I say some heads must roll locally and globally to make some real change. VANOC, The BC Legislature and the IOC must be forced to acknowledge and listen so they realize the injustice in what they are sowing!!!

Don't underestimate your global connections

Good post Working Slog, but don't underestimate your global connections and where-with-all.

You've got 'em, you just have to use them and not expect to change things overnight.

We're listening to you here in Vancouver.

Now go talk online to your brothers and sisters in London England (2012 Olympics), and then send your message to PyeongChang, South Korea; Salzburg, Austria; Sochi, Russia - countries that are all hoping to "win" the 2014 Games.

Do a YouTube session if you like, just make sure you label it "Olympics" in the keywords. In fact, all you really have to do is go to YouTube, find an Olympics related video and make a comment. Include a link to this page on TheTyee.ca.

People are the same everywhere, and they respond to common sense.

Spend one hour today researching English speaking newspapers in other Olympic global regions and send them a short note to let them know what's happening to you and your family in your Olympic region. They all have a letters to the editor section. Use it.

Do a quick Google search for "business associations" or "chambers of commerce" in London and other Olympic hopeful cities and send them a note too.

Business people hate the prospect of losing money, and if you tell them how much that taxes and rents have increased here they'll have a stroke.

The problem is that most people don't believe that the Olympics negatively impacts a community - until it happens to them, and then it is too late to do anything about it. Sound familiar?

The IOC rarely allows countries that speak the same language to host Olympic events concurrently because it is too easy to share war stories while it is still a hot topic. Now ... thanks to the internet, it is easy for a country like English speaking Canada to talk to another English speaking country like England. Take advantage of it while you can. The last time it happened was between Atlanta in 1996 and Sydney Australia in 2000. It literally almost destroyed the 2000 Games.

Email everyone you find. Make it cordial, short, and informational. They'll get the message, and so will the IOC. The IOC is your enemy, VANOC is just the messenger, while local politicians are totally confused. They still naively think they can make this work by simply following IOC rules. Make your own rules - I do.

Direct your energy where it will do the most good. If you haven't already, you might also want to read my post above.

Working Slogs everywhere have to ask; Do you want to stop the Games, or simply make it work harder for your community, and not have it wreak havoc on marginalized people and social services?

What is it you really want to accomplish?

Personally, I'd like to see it work harder for the community, but to each his own.

I love Olympic sport, I just hate the mismanagement. I find it hard to believe that John Furlong, CEO VANOC is purposely screwing over our community. I think he's just way over his head and is already running in panic mode.

See you at the movies!!

Thoughts

The 2010 Olympics are a means for Campbell’s reelection to a third term. He could never allow transparency in the accounting so a lot of decisions were made just to make sure no negative news ever saw the light of day. The Auditor General’s Office was not allowed to get involved and many project costs which should have been added to the $600 million were conveniently spun away, the highway to Whistler being just one. All this with the CanWest Media repeating the phrases in the Liberal message box.

Then there are the social costs for this extravaganza. That should be clear . How can one expect that greedy housing developers will not try to take advantage of the obscene spending that will occur during the two week party.

There are also a lot of communities far from the lower mainland who have bought into the hype. In truth it is the community leadership, most of whom are liberal supporters and members of the Chamber of Commerce. These guys like a little socialist spending of taxpayer money provided it greases their palms even in an indirect fashion. For those outside of the lower mainland there will be a phony legacy fund created not from olympic profits but from the general coffers and taxpayer’s money which will be transferred into a legacy fund to make it look like the games produced it. The disbursements will be the payoffs for singing from the same liberal song sheet.

I like watching the games but I will not let it run my life like it does for some. I will not go anywhere near the lower mainland in 2010 and I won’t be going to that pampered community of Whistler. I won’t be changing any plans just to sit in front of my TV. Athletics has become the “opiate of the people” to far too great an extent for me.

It looks like it may actually work for Campbell. Protests may make one feel fine while they occur but at this stage I doubt they will have an effect . I wish I had more faith in the opposition and their leader to prevent it from happening. If I did, I might actually do more about it.

Excuse me, but your cohorts are floundering

Yeah, I'm being pedantic. The definition of cohort has been bastardized, much as the definition of flounder. A flounder is a fish; to founder is what a ship does before it sinks.

It's language laziness. People who can't be bothered to get it right have led to words changing meaning. They keep misusing the word until the meaning eventually changes.

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, except that if more people would focus more on getting things right in the first place, wouldn't we all be better off?

But hey, GWest, we can be proud that we dragged his Eminence the editor in to defend himself? Methinks he doth protest too much...

(Don't take it personal-like, DBeers. We're just funnin' ya...)

Payoff

G West:

I did acknowledge that continuing with the Olympics would be throwing good money after bad. My point is that if we pulled the plug now (if it were possible, which I don't honestly believe) there would be absolutely no return. The return we will get in terms of direct revenue and tourism-related returns will almost certainly not cover the costs, but it may offset some of the losses.

There's some wishful thinking involved, obviously. I guess it's a matter wanting to make lemonade instead of whining that the lemons are too sour.

I'm sure you're right!

And selling those sailboats was never a picnic either.

I think I'll pass on the party and I'm actually getting a bit tired of wishful thinking, but, even so - I think our cohort may well be growing.

Harassment

Are you staring at my cohort? How rude!

LOL

First laugh I've had all day - needed that.

Cohort or Rogue's Gallery?

. . . . . . either description, there is a "common purpose" to this little 'circle' of bandits (cohort) - the cohort's common purpose most definitely is not in the best interests of either the athletes or the taxpayers of British Columbia. The links to this circle are soldered. Sadly, Mayor Sam has just become a pawn in their 'game'.

'The Olympics' is only a reflection of the specific persons controlling the business opportunities under the guise of the label which lost it's ethical meaning years ago -as BC Mary alludes to above, all created on the backs of the athletes struggling to survive, while the IOC & Vanoc live like royalty, laughing all the way to their banks. Rise up young athletes - without your sweat capital this band of rogues would be no where. All of Dr. Shaw's predictions are coming true . . .

From start to finish, the 'Games' being awarded to Vancouver/Whistler has been a sham including key events leading up to the Prague Bid: a manipulation of the systems & institutions that are supposed to for the public's' trust; further, a raid on the assets held by British Columbians without their input or full knowledge of the facts.

Referendum? What Referendum? LOL!!! All taxpayers of British Columbia & Canada are going to be frisked for years to come on this fiasco. The Vancouver Referendum was a Concert Properties 'special event'. What input did anyone outside of Vancouver, including the Lower Mainland have? The whole scene is & was unpalatable. Too few voices spoke up to question and/or were silenced by the media. Many, many people knew it was a charade - knew the specific truth on issues.

Who controlled the group that wished to speak before the IOC prior to Prague? None other than Mr. Manning, Jack Poole's political 'fixer'. LOL _ LOL _ LOL. Who was on the original list before it was sanitized?

The only way the circle can keep control over their agenda re: the Olympic mirage they have manipulated (a cesspool of old boys vested interests & carefully selected Premier's consultants/land bureaucrats)is through tight control of event behind the mirage. As soon as the truth starts to surface the ship starts to sink.

Yes, BC Mary, right again. It is long overdue for the Tyee to get back to its original roots of uncovering the truth; I for one had lost interest. To date, the coverage surrounding Olympic shenanigans has been strangely thin. Tut, tut, David.

There is much more to come that has been covered-up by this cohort & they are all involved - that is a promise. The bilge pump is failing.

Right on, secondlook

Amen to that, "secondlook". Speaking of Poole, it seems to me that not a lot of people realize that's what the "P" in PCL stands for. Can you say "convention centre", for one? What a frikken laugh.

. . . food for thought

Quite a circle, aren't they????? The whole Vanoc/B.C. Lib agenda stinks!! Here's another one to cause you some nightmares, DJT:

We have just learned a shocking fact through the Raid on the Leg documents: that the top Inspector of the RCMP Commercial Crime that lead the investigative 'team'related to the Raid (politicians/aides et al) is the brother in law of the Executive Director of the B.C. Libs ~ just a slight CONFLICT OF INTEREST don't you think????

What info was leaked to whom? Did all evidence see the light of day re: high profile political links/reputations?

Further: Am I correct in saying that the RCMP hold the Security contract with Vanoc? Didn't they work closely with Vanoc on the Bid & ordering a 21 million dollar road into the Callaghan Valley, if my memory serves me well? Clearly political linkages between the RCMP & the B.C. Libs are healthy.

Question: Have there been any Criminal investigations/files 'handled' by the RCMP Commercial Crime directly related to the Vancouver/Whistler Olympic Bid? If so, how were they 'handled'? Just a thought. . . .

The movie was really really good

I went to the premiere tonight, and recommend it to all, TELL YOUR FREINDS AND ENEMYS. lets get this movie mainstream and tell the world about the lies. I really feel Vancouver is going to turn the tables on this Olympic circus and showcase the biggest collection of clowns that corporate maney can buy.
The sad legacy has started with the F$#&^&^ UGLY CROCK of a shaped rock of a countdown clock.
Its so ugly they have a 24 hr guard on it.
hmm.. 24hrs x 365days x 3years x $20hr = $525,600 , holy sheet 1/2 a million to watch a $21.95 timex for 3 years. Now thats an gold medal olympic legacy folks.

hmm.. that 1/2 million could have paid for...
154 hip replacements surgerys, 328 angeoplastys, and 12 hrs yearly of training for doctors and surgeons on hand washing techniques for a clean safe workplace. Since they seemed to have forgotten basic hygiene 101.

This can't be the same guy

secondlook.

"We have just learned a shocking fact through the Raid on the Leg documents: that the top Inspector of the RCMP Commercial Crime that lead the investigative 'team' related to the Raid (politicians/aides et al) is the brother in law of the Executive Director of the B.C. Libs ~ just a slight CONFLICT OF INTEREST don't you think????"

This can't be the same guy who was instrumental in the raid of Glen Clark's house. He finally retired. Got a retirement gift from John Daly who was very conveniently stationed at the house at the time. Still it makes inferences that if supported with evidence is quite serious.

How can we in BC bring about

How can we in BC bring about a class action suite against G Campbell and the BC Liberal Party and an investigation into all the major corruption involved in all levels of governments?
Before TILMA comes in April 1, 07 WE can stop this insult to our intelligence by big greedy biz.
Buy local as much as possible, don't buy stuff, start having a don't buy week every 5 weeks and see how much power WE do have as a group!

How wrong they are

Many in the rest of Canada, knowing of the massive opposition of many B.C.ers to these Games, will see it solely as a B.C. problem. How wrong they are.

I predict that a stench of boondoggle will persist long after the players have skipped town.

The decision on Whistler was bulldozed by a bought media, government and other vested interesrs, in my opinion. Hands are out to the federal Goverment for more funding for security - already projected to be obscenely costly.

Cost over-runs? Live with it, Suckers!

Movie lacks realistic process

I saw the premiere of movie too last night, and it's interesting, but unfortunately it relies too heavily on emotion and not enough on real world process and solution.

Emotion is great to get people aroused, but it won't hold the mainstream attention long enough to do enough good.

Insular Vancouverites have to understand at a much deeper level that the Olympics is a global corporation.

I heard David Eby speak afterwards, and was thoroughly impressed with him. He is a smart, articulate young man, and because he is so smart I suspect he is starting to feel very overwhelmed. If he's not feeling this way, he's not as smart as I think. He is the resolute leader in this campaign, but he must be wondering where he is leading his brood, and into what danger. At the end of the day, unless you're grandstanding, and I definitely don't think he is, all that counts is results.

Vancouverites, and in some cases rightly so, are proud of their insularity, and often boast that they've been able to cut themselves off from the rest of the world and exist in their own little Utopia.

With all due respect, good for you ... but Olympic organizations think this is a weakness, and they are already capitalizing on it to advance their position. Someone in David's organization must start to think more like VANOC thinks.

I repeat once more, this is a local problem, but it is a global issue.

Forget about the "US against THEM" dynamic. If you are really concerned about serving marginalized people you have no choice but to negotiate a compromise.

You will not win this war through brute force. All you will do is create more grief for the homeless, and the Olympics will still happen as planned.

You can generate all the local noise you want here in our Vancouver backyard. That's easy and it's been done before in every Olympic region, but in every single Olympic region this strategy has failed miserably.

You are also tragically mistaken if you think that you are ahead of the game. For starters, my book was released in early 2006, and my blog has been online over two years, and in good months it attracts almost 3 million hits from around the world. I started full time research four years ago, and even I sometimes feel like I should have started sooner.

The reality is that you are at least two years too late to the table, and more realistically, four years behind the eight ball. Olympic organizations know this, because they've seen this happen in all other Olympic regions. I wrote about your exact strategy almost two years ago.

When the IOC trades legacy information between Olympic regions they trade protest information too. Get over the notion that you are unique or ahead of the curve. You're not. Olympic organizations count on you being misinformed and so far you're doing everything they expect.

If you want proof, read Helen Lenskyj's book "The Best Olympics Ever?"

READ IT FROM COVER TO COVER and you will understand what I saying here, or read Leverage Olympic Momentum, which is my book and written with a Vancouver perspective. My book is NOT written with protesting mind, but at least you will learn something about how Olympic organizations operate.

It's great to use Lenskyj in the movie to support your perspective, but you can't simply take snippets of her wisdom and mold it for your own device - you need to tell the whole story. For example, she warns readers in her writings that traditional protest in Olympic regions DOES NOT WORK, but I didn't see this stated in the movie, nor was it even implied.

If you really want to make a difference you have to reach out around the world. The online tools are there, but you have to use them effectively.

Sydney Australia managed a strategy called the "sorry" campaign. Both I and Lenskyj describe it in our respective books, although she goes into it in much greater detail.

Just before the 2000 Olympics, on a sunny afternoon, one quarter million Australian white people marched across the Sydney bridge to a group of Aboriginals standing on the other side, and they apologised for how they, and their governments had treated Aboriginals for the previous 200 years. Also, during the seventeen day run of the 2000 Games, locals passed out small white cards with only the word "sorry" printed on them in small black letters, and they also said "sorry" as they passed Olympic spectators on the street. (Today it would be "sorry.com.") Other passive aggressive tactics in the late 90's very nearly caused the Olympic organizers in Sydney to cancel the Games.

Almost from the very start they used peaceful strategies that literally scared the hell out of Olympic organizations because it demonstrated that an entire community could protest the management of the Games without resorting to violence. It didn't take Aboriginals long to figure out that being considered anti-Olympics would not work.

More importantly, their passive aggressive strategy attracted the attention of international media around the world. Aboriginals managed this campaign brilliantly, and they did it without violence. They got the respect they deserved and needed to take their message to the world stage. The secret was to get what they needed without alienating the community. They leveraged Olympic momentum in a judo-like fashion and used its momentum against itself.

I'm betting that most local Vancouver protesters wouldn't oppose the Games if VANOC managed the business model more equitably for the entire community, but protesters have turned it into a war. I suspect this happened because you started your campaign too late and now you feel like your backs are against the wall. Desperation is a dangerous place to be. I think you should take a deep breath and rethink your position. Read Sun Tzu while your pondering. The first rule of engagement is to know your enemy.

2002 was the time to complain, but you didn't. Olympic organizations count on this happening. I wrote about it in detail in my book. I know how it works because I used to be on the other side of the corporate entertainment promotion fence, but now I adopt the same strategies for small and midsize business owners, who by the way, are not your enemy. You're all in the same boat and you should be seeking each other out.

The movie also fails to identify that local mainstream news media are partially to blame. But in your naivety you think that this is a local issue and that somehow you need local mainstream news media on your side.

Who do you think creates Olympic frenzy? And who do you think also makes a financial killing from the Games off the back of the community?

Olympic organizations could not possibly do this without the support of local news media. How would Olympic organizations get their Olympic message out if it wasn't for publications like The Straight or The Sun, or CTV, or Global news? What would VANOC do? Distribute fliers door to door?

How come the movie doesn't mention that newspapers like The Straight and The Sun selling full color double spread condo advertising to real estate marketers like Bob Rennie? Where do you think Olympic frenzy starts? It starts at home - your home, and your house is on the auction block too.

The only chance that this movie has of making any reasonable impact is to share the plight of the homeless online in as wide a market as possible. YouTube it. And I'm not talking about Conrad taking this huge task upon himself.

I was surprised during the discussion in the theater after the movie that the people organizing the event didn't tell the 300 people in the audience to go home and YouTube segments of this movie to Olympic hopeful cities around the world. You had a captive audience, that would be more than willing to help you out, but you didn't give them the tools or enthusiasm to lend a hand.

Instead I had to listen to a group of rag tags organizing local rallies. I'm 53, but even I know that this is a waste of time in the 21st century.

Please quit promoting civil disobedience, which we all know leads to violence, because for starters, it's hurtful to the people you are supposed to be helping, plus it will alienate our mainstream community, and worst of all, if you promote violence, Canada will have no choice but to bring in the military.

Violent local protest will only be met by large military intervention. And I guarantee that if Vancouver anti-Olympic protesters test further the already stressed local police, the federal government will step in and do everything they can to prevent Canada from being embarrassed. They will hammer you with extreme prejudice.

Sitting in the RIO movie theatre last night and listening to people cat calling at the screen was embarrassing, and if organizers expect to attract support from the mainstream they have to manage emotion more responsibly by removing frustration and giving people tools and avenues to make a real difference.

Old school is no longer as effective as it used to be. You are using Betty as a pawn. She's 78 for Christ sake. Give her some new tools and help her channel her smarts in a manner that has more impact. Do you really want her to die like Bluff's protester Harriet Nahanee? To what end?

Martyrdom, pun intended, is dead.

Olympic organizations and governments have seen your tactics all before. You might win a few small skirmishes, but unfortunately they will win the war.

Read Lenskyj cover to cover if you doubt this.

Choose intellect over emotion.

Peace

I hate to break this to you Gordon . . .

I hate to break this to you Gordon, but your eyes will have to see that eyesore of a clock for more than 3 yrs . . . it is slated to remain AFTER the big party, too. Actually, it is symbolic of the Premier who also requires a 24 hr. protection by the RCMP LOL ~ says it all, don't you think?

Skywalker: No, it is not the same RCMP Liberal link: The Glen Clark home Raid was lead by Officer Montague who wanted to run for the B.C. Libs - the RCMP lead investigator on the Leg Raid is Insp. Kevin DeBruyckere (according to documents). . . call me crazy but it seems the RCMP are kind of like 'kissing cousins' in this Province, to the Gordon Campbell crew. No wonder the RCMP is trying to take over the independent police forces - not a good thing!

The Olympics are completely controlled through Vanoc by Campbell, his close associates including Jack Poole & Ken Dobell, in charge of Finance on the Board of Vanoc (the Premier's former Deputy now raking in massive consultant fees as the Premier's 'special finger in the pie everywhere', consultant)

This exclusive circle (cohort) had an exclusive deal over free land from the City of Vancouver, back when Poole's Concert Properties was called VLC Properties; Campbell was the Mayor with Ken Dobell as his ahem . . . aide. The idea was to build social housing but somehow, many of those proposed social housing units ended up for profit units in VLC's corral. Hello: Round & round we go . . .

Now they have the facade of the Olympics to play with . . . folks, just use your imagination . . . the stakes are much higher.

Whose minding the hen house?????

I repeat:

Under the circumsances, should the public feel their best interests are at the forefront of the RCMP's decisions behind closed doors, when the political linkages have been uncovered? Has the truth been suppressed on specific issues impacting Vanoc & their insider plans?

I don't have the magic answer to your question BCDude but I do know that change always starts with people power - true political power - individuals ensuring their voices are heard; ensuring that the facts will not be covered up.

Essentially, the circle can only count on each other. The public at large always holds the power when armed with the truth. There is a growing awareness of the putrid scenario being played out in this Province. It is the duty of all media outlets to bring forth the facts.

so the lefty-freak-aholes

so the lefty-freak-aholes will ruin the olympics for the fine people of british columbia and canada, and it will be allowed b/c vancouver is run by a bunch of wimpy fence sitters who have absolutely no principles. what else is new. i was born and raised there but i am so happy to be out of that shitehole. what a shame. such potential too.

Don't hold your breath, secondlook

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the mainstream propaganda rags they call "media" in this city to "bring forth the facts". That's part of the problem in the first place.

Disaster

It's obviously a disaster. The benefits from tourism, the world's largest industry and second in BC, are not worth considering. We must make sure that the political parties that conceived and won this Olympic event for Vancouver and, as a poster said, gave us a phoney referendum, are never in power again. Namely, the NDP and COPE.

realisticman As far as I can

realisticman As far as I can see the three parties are all in the same boat to bring in TILMA April 01 2006 http://www.canadians.org/DI/issues/TILMA/index.html The beginning of the end of Democracy. shame
"Corruption and hypocrisy ought not to be inevitable products of democracy, as they undoubtedly are today" : Mahatma Gandhi

So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men: Voltaire. François Marie Arouet (1694-1778)

It is simpler than that.

Realisticman is only half right in his last post. Then takes the wrong half and draws a conclusion that the implementation of a bid once accepted would be just as flawed even if the party he hates were in power. Quite a stretch in logic but as with most of his ilk it works for him.

The olympics in themselves are not evil. It is the manner in which governments make them a priority over other issues and the lack of any accountability and transparency in the financing that is the disgrace. History is again destined to repeat itself.

Oh and Eliot, don't bother coming back to B.C. sorry to tell you but, you are not missed.

Losing all balance

The heartless bandits, the stupid, political clowns, and the chaos of the five ring Olympic circus abound on both sides of the pond:

International Olympic Committee officials flew into London on Wednesday for an emergency meeting with Games chairman Lord Sebastian Coe demanding a full breakdown of costs.

But they got little satisfaction: Coe was unable to answer their concerns.

Spin

Don't believe everything your read in the newspapers, lynn. They may be right but the left of centre Guardian reported on Thursday that, ""Our meetings were very productive and effective. Regarding finance, we are very happy with Locog's [the London Games organising committee] budget, which was broken down clearly for us, and is balanced and unchanged at around the £2bn mark." This particular budget, for running the Games, will be financed via sponsorship, TV income, ticket sales and merchandise."

Maybe the report you saw included the Olympic Village which is estimated at a final cost, at completion eight years after the games, of around $13 billion. This will be a renovated town.

Lots of jobs for lots of working families, eh?

still in b.c. sky, and i

still in b.c. sky, and i certainly wouldn't mind not being missed by the lefty-freak-aholes that live to protest whine and bitch about absolutely everything. must be a horrible way to live one's life.

The Paris Hilton School of Thinking

realisticman, I've got The Guardian reporting on Friday:

If you add 6 billion pounds plus thirteen million dollars for the Olympic Village you get 25 billion dollars.

25 billion dollars. Think of it.

So this is basically the kind of thinking endorsed here...eg. much like parents who would opt for an expensive swimming pool in their backyard over buying groceries to feed their kids, putting shoes on their feet, and a roof over their heads to keep them all warm.

It's the kind of thinking that runs the world now...self-interested, greedy, superficial, lacking in foresight and yeah, damn stupid.

And it lacks all imagination... greed has blocked it all - to the point where sport is seen only in terms of making money.

These guys and gals have no ability to imagine the Olympics in any other way...let alone life itself.

Red Ken likes it

Lynn it's not, as you say 13 million it's $13 billion. That's thirteen thousand million. 30% of the 4,500 new homes will be "(shared ownership, key worker and social rented)". Thousands of full-time jobs will be created, etc. Mayor 'Red' Ken Livingstone likes it.

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/europe/uk/england/london/east/e15-stratford/stratford-city/index.htm

This is perhaps the largest planned re-development ever in the UK. It includes schools health-care facilities and commercial developments in one of the poorest areas of East London. This isn't about games. It just so happens that the Olympic Village is also in there.

Ken Livingstone has been called many things including a Marxist and a Leninist, he's not a pinko he's red. Read what Ken says about the Olympics coming to London.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,873119,00.html

As Ken says, "Go for Gold".

" Ken Livingstone
Sunday January 12, 2003
The Observer

Those who argue that London couldn't possibly win the chance to host the 2012 Olympic Games because our city suffers from too much traffic, crime, overcrowding and pollution are missing the point.

New York and Paris are touted as London's biggest competitors, but suggest to natives of either of these cities that they live in a clean, peaceful and traffic-free urban paradise, and you would be met with derision.

Article continues
But what both of these cities have recognised, and Britain's government has yet to decide, is that hosting the Olympic Games is not the crowning glory of a city's success, it's an opportunity for change.

Barcelona is testament to that: a depressed industrial city took a scrap of land on the edge of town and with the help of a £5 billion investment in infrastructure turned their city into a major tourist centre.

There is no reason why London cannot emulate that success. Yes, the site we're talking about for the main stadium and Olympic village is at the moment far from impressive, but in 10 years' time it could be a very different story.

But before readers outside London switch off, we need to be clear that a London bid is a British bid. The rest of the country will benefit, and many other cities and venues would share in the staging of many of the events. Furthermore, only London of our major cities has the existing facilities capable of forming the basis of a bid.

This is not surprising. London's main rivals for 2012, Paris and New York, are similarly huge urban centres, although only New York really compares in terms of size and population.

In 2012 the East End could be home to a state of the art stadium, and an Olympic village of 4,000 new homes. The area will be easily accessed by the new Stratford Channel Tunnel rail link and the planned Crossrail service will have the capacity to transport 150,000 people across the city during the weekday morning peak time.

Once the Games are over, there is little chance that these new amenities will gather dust. Premiership football sides have already expressed interest in the main stadium, and the other facilities and new housing will quickly be absorbed in a city that is expected to have gained 700,000 new residents by 2012, equivalent to the entire population of Leeds.

The Games' other great economic gift will be the benefits of tourism, an industry that has been seriously shaken by the double blows of foot and mouth and 11 September.

The pessimists say that the long-term benefits to Sydney's tourist industry are so far uncertain, that other Australian cities were denuded of visitors as a result of the 2000 Games. But this is hardly a strong comparison. Australia is an enormous country, and a gruelling flight away from the major tourist markets in Europe and North America. Visit London, an easy task for anyone in Europe, and you can be in Oxford or Edinburgh in just a couple of hours.

But if the East End needs regenerating anyway, and the UK's tourism industry obviously needs a shot in the arm, why should we do it with sport? The answer is that the Games represent a unique opportunity to combine the transformation of the East End's economy and physical environment with the transformation of the city's, and even the nation's social capital.

One Londoner who has been quick to recognise this is Jacqueline Valin, head of Southfields Community College, a specialist sports school in Wandsworth. Having seen the improvements that sport has brought about in her own students' self-esteem and academic achievement, she has started a letter-writing campaign among London headteachers to try to convince the Government to bid for the Games.

Ms Valin explains: 'For a few weeks, sport will be at the centre of most people's lives, and the home advantage will translate into lots of medals - look at how well our athletes did at the Commonwealth Games, or Japan and Korea did in the World Cup. London's school children will have the chance to see this at first hand. I'm sure that will have a lasting impact on their lives.'

Crucially, the Olympics will also bring much-needed new facilities: an Olympic-size swimming pool in a city that has just two Olympic pools to Berlin's 19, and a warm-up track that would be turned over to community use.

Apart from encouraging the nation's couch potatoes off their sofas, the Olympics will be one of those rare occasions that gives us a sense of a common enterprise. Thousands of people, young and old, will have the opportunity to work as volunteers and be part of one of the world's most exciting events.

There is no need to worry that Londoners' habitual cynicism will stop us from being every bit as welcoming a host city as Sydney or Manchester. Polls show that 75 per cent of Londoners back a bid. Our teenagers are engaged too: when Linford Christie came to the prize-giving at Jacqueline Valin's school the first thing the students wanted to know was whether he'd be supporting a London Olympic bid.

Other cities will share in this enthusiasm by hosting the football tournament and the national training camps, which will also deliver significant amounts of cash into their local economies. We'll have the feel-good factor of the 2002 World Cup, but the influx of visitors will mean we won't need to worry that sport is keeping people out of the shops.

London can host a magnificent 2012 Olympics, a Games with the golden legacy of Barcelona. The lessons of the Dome, Wembley and Picketts Lock will serve as cautionary tales for whoever heads the team for the Olympic bid, but they cannot be used as an excuse for avoiding ambitious projects. Our competitor cities too will have learnt from previous failed sporting bids and less than successful projects.

The expected battle between New York, London, Paris and Moscow will be a clash of the titans. Hosting the 2012 Olympics is one of the most ambitious projects we will have seen in Britain for many years, but as any sportsperson will tell you, you don't get anywhere without ambition. "

When the party's over...

I stand corrected...I meant billion not million but I think you knew that, otherwise I could not have arrived at the grand poohbah sum of 25 billion dollars.

I repeat the only way the present dinosaur crew running things can envision an Olympic games is in terms of money and business, not sport...and all at the cruel expense of robbing the social system, by diverting much needed funding for a few weeks of superficial glitz.

They just have no imagination or foresight as to how to do it any other way. Their brain cells badly deteriorated now by years and years of focusing only on making money, instead of making a world worth living in.

In London, just like here, there are few details being disclosed in relation to the ever-skyrocketing costs of the games.

Here's another look at the "successful" Sydney Games:

As a reflection of the feeling in Sydney, the city's broadsheet newspaper, The Sydney Morning Herald, has been violently bashing the Olympic Project, with an editorial in last week's pages under the headline, 'Flatlining into the future'. "The Olympics represented the high point of the state's fortunes in the past decade, a time of feverish, euphoric activity which pushed the economy to a peak. Since the party ended, gloom has gradually settled over the state's economy," the editorial raged.

Most Sydneysiders have long regarded the Olympic Park in Homebush as a world-class, glitzy collection of stadiums and sports facilities, but they have also long regarded it as a world-class, glitzy white elephant. The locals have also taken to calling the Olympic Park 'Jurassic Park'. Travel the 45 minutes from Circular Quay, in Sydney Harbour, to Homebush, and it feels like riding the ghost train to a ghost town.

The sense is that, even before 2000, Sydneysiders knew the Olympic Park was a monumental expense, but, during the run-up to the Games, during the Games, and for some years after, there had been enough of a feel-good psychological blast for them not to have really minded. But that boost has since faded, and so now there is arguably a growing feeling of irritation that they are still paying for their very own 'Jurassic Park'. "There is anger that Homebush is not being used to the full," said a jogger outside Stadium Australia, now called Telstra Stadium. "We were told that it would become a fully-functioning area, but that has never happened." The Aquatic Centre is still used regularly, and there are occasional sporting events and concerts elsewhere at Homebush, but not enough to pay for the upkeep of the stadiums and so Sydneysiders are still being charged for a two-week party seven years ago. Some hangover.

I wonder how long our

I wonder how long our hangover will last?
2055 maybe.
Is this the Legacy we want to leave Our kids?
I think not, where is our media CanWest? Ha, ha what a joke thoes reporters must feel proud.
http://www.iwtnews.com/home

those

those

Every resident of Vancouver

Every resident of Vancouver should see it. It is getting international attention (the popular website Boing-Boing just wrote about it).

You only have four days left to see it. After that the IOC/VANOC will probably seize all known copies of the film and throw Conrad in jail.......

So don't miss the opportunity.

dinosaur crew...

I'm not presently involved but I have met extremely experienced, capable and passionate people that also love sports that are working for VANOC. Who are the dinosaur crew you speak of Lynn?

So, we have Red Ken the extreme leftist politician in London saying how the Games can be great for the city and the country. We have Sydney commentators saying how bad the Games were for them. What about the comparison with another winter Games, Calgary. Wiki tells me that yes, indeed, they left a wonderful legacy and turned a profit. A much closer to home comparison and staged during a right-wing government.

The lefties in the UK love 'em and the rightists in Alberta loved 'em. The lefties here applied for and won them, the leftist City government approved it and now the centrist provincial government and the centrist city government support them. The voters of Vancouver approved of the Games in a referendum.

Who, exactly, is it that doesn't like them? It's not the lefties or the rightists. It must be just a tiny group. Is it a cult? Are they called the Perpetual Contrarians?

Sydney & Calgary

Lynn & Realisticman,

The Sydney Morning Herald was an official Olympic sponsor for the 2000 Summer Games, which means that they made a fortune hyping the event and artificially driving up house prices. Now they complain? Read "The Best Olympics Ever?" by Helen Lenskyj for the details.

And regarding Calgary, they readily admit that they lucked out negotiating an incredible television deal, plus gas tycoons helped keep the '88 Games afloat. Read Dick Pound's book "Inside the Olympics" for the details.

Or read my book, Leverage Olympic Momentum for a Vancouver 2010 perspective and to see how past Games compare to what is happening here.

realisticman

I think it's only fair to note that article of Red Ken's is from 2003. I think it may be a little too soon to judge the London experience yet. Furthermore, the record from Greece is mixed in terms of infrastructure debt of several billion dollars. I don't know what the final story will be here in BC but I'd be prepared to bet you 5 quid that it won't be good for the people living on or near the street in Vancouver today. Deal?

Here's something a little more current, and less sanguine, about London:

2006 Winter Olympics in Turin Lost Money
Thursday, February 8, 2007 4:26 PM EST
The Associated Press
By STEPHEN WILSON

LAUSANNE, Switzerland (AP) — The 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin posted a small deficit, and the IOC wants a clear picture from London organizers of the rising infrastructure costs for the 2012 Summer Games.

A year after Turin, organizers reported Thursday a projected shortfall of $32 million on their operating budget of $1.58 billion, believed to be one of the first Olympic deficits in decades.

"We are very satisfied," Turin organizing committee chief Valentino Castellani said. "This is only a 2 percent imbalance of our total budget."

He said the red ink — to be covered by the city — was mainly due to a "technical problem" related to payment of VAT, or value added tax.

IOC president Jacques Rogge downplayed the deficit, saying the Olympics had left an "enormous legacy" for Turin, the Piedmont region and Italy as a whole.

"I think that every city in the world would love to have the facilities, the infrastructure, the environmental improvement for 25 million," Rogge said at the close of a two-day executive board meeting. "Every city in the world would sign for this."

Castellani said the organizing committee had projected in January 2006 that the deficit would be $53 million, while some had put the figure at $130 million to $195 million.

The final figure will be confirmed by the end of March, he said.

Olympic organizing committee budgets cover the operational aspects of managing and running the games, and are met mainly by television rights fees, sponsorships, licensing and ticket sales. The budgets do not include the major infrastructure costs related to the games.

The previous Winter Olympics, held in Salt Lake City in 2002, turned a profit of $56 million. The 2004 Athens Olympics posted a surplus of $166.79 million for the organizing committee — though the overall costs for Greece totaled more than $14.05 billion.

Financing was also at the heart of discussions Thursday on the London Games, where soaring costs for the main Olympic Park have caused a heated political and media stir in recent weeks.

According to some reports, the costs have doubled and could reach as high as $17.6 billion. Regeneration of a 500-acre site in Stratford, east London, is at the heart of the Olympic project.

"The investment made in London should be considered an investment in the future of the nation and an investment in the future of the youth of the nation," Rogge said. "I don't see this as a cost, I see this as an investment."

Gilbert Felli, the IOC's executive director for the Olympic Games, said the committee is happy with the pace of London's preparations and put the financial controversy down to a "political discussion inside British politics."

"Confidence is there, we have no doubt that everything will be delivered on time," he said.

But Felli said he and other IOC officials traveling to London later this month will ask for a document giving a complete breakdown of the costs.

"We need to have a clear picture of it," he said. "We like to have clarity. It should be transparent. People need to understand. At the end of the day, what is important is the cost of what was supposed to be delivered in the bid remains the same."

The IOC is concerned that the public wrangling over London's costs is hurting the Olympic brand around the world, scaring off potential bid cities.

You can be sure of one thing, the Olympic committee will be spinning those rings very hard for the next few months. Like a lot of other things, the public won't know what's really happened until we get the bill.

The cult of Barney

realisticman,

Anyone - left, right, middle, up, down, sunny side up, Red Ken, Blue Ken - who thinks spending billions upon billions of dollars on the Olympic Games is a good idea is straight from The Paris Hilton School of Thinking.

It's not a question of liking the games or not, it's a question of the kind of stupid thinking that will make us all go the way of the dinosaurs.

I have nothing against The Olympic Games in themselves. The problem is we have an unimaginative, greedy, self-interested group of individuals in power largely all over the world now.

They seem incapable of either critical or imaginative thought.... or as exemplified here of holding The Olympic Games without causing many vulnerable people to suffer from the stupid, shallow choices they keep making.

And not only that they expect the rest of us to pay for these stupid choices of theirs for decades to come. A few people will get rich from the Games, the rest of us will pay for it, some more than others through the loss of funding to vital social services they are critically in need of.

We could address homelessness, end it even - and still have the Games if we had true leaders with some real heart, some real intelligence and some real imaginative vision.

Instead we have dinosaurs who are pulling us all down with them into the muddy swamp of stale ideas, costly lies and empty money values...extinction, really - of all that was once life-affirming.

So, sorry to disappoint but they are the real "small cult" of "Perpetual Contrarians" you ask of - continually making inept and short-sighted choices contrary to all that makes life worth living.

Here, Here Lynn!

Here, Here Lynn!

End Homelessness

We could end homelessness you say, Lynn. How would we do that? Put up a sign at the border, "Free Homes this way"? How would you organize it Lynn? Can I sell my home and get high all day and you'll find me a nice comfy crash-pad gratis? Help the TRULY needy yes, absolutely but there has to a line somewhere. This province is lavish for the less fortunate when compared to most of the planet.

Should they pull down the Eiffel Tower, sell it for scrap and give the money to hungry people?

Silly Question Deserves Silly Answer

Non, Monsieur Realisticman. Absolument pas.

Je t'aime L'Eiffel Tower.

But scrapping The Fraser Institute would be what they call "a very good start". ;-)

I'll blame it on being sleepy...

Never post late at night -

That should read, "J'aime L'Eiffel Tower"

J'adore la tour eiffel, aussi

But, think about life in Paris when la Tour was conceived and broached. It would be, perhaps, a hundred times taller than any structure existing in the city at that time. Massive, expensive and just a grandiose folie that served no purpose other than showcasing architectural and engineering capabilities. This, at a time when, "An economic depression began in France in 1873 and worsened into the 1880s, affecting agriculture, industry, and small-scale trade." In 1892 Toulouse-Lautrec arranged an exhibition of paintings in Paris and William Rothstein's painting of an emaciated woman suggests that he was trying to draw attention to the poor on the streets of both London and Paris (Painting at Morning 1891, Tate London).

People are not starving and emaciated on the streets of Vancouver.

Today, we love the Eiffel Tower and we are not critical of an administration in Paris that built it over a hundred years ago, even though there were many poor hungry people and antibiotics hadn't even been invented. Think of what health-care was like.

Vancouver of 2010 can afford this little winter Olympics.

You could t'aime

By the way, Lynn. Were you to be speaking to the Eiffel Tower it would be quite proper for you to say, 'je t'aime, Tour Eiffel'. Quite romantic.

The view from the swamp

realisticman,

I only speak to the Eiffel Tower in my dreams. ;-)

...very clever putting "little" in there. ;-). But we both know we are not talking about a bit of loose change...but about large amounts of critically-needed funding that will be diverted to accomplish this "little" two week affair.

Again I emphasize, staging The Olympics comes with an enormous pricetag simply because we have unimaginative, greedy dinosaurs in power who can't and more importantly don't want to visualize it in any other way because grand sums of money mean grand profits for the select few...all at the public's expense.

In regard to the rising rates of homelessness, it is interesting to observe that in BC mere decades ago there were very few homeless. Now, even in postcard-viewed Victoria, the homeless rates are soaring. And in small rural towns homelessness was once rarely heard of but now in the last few years in the little rural town I live north of, people are living in cars, tents and in the bush ...and certainly not by choice.

Why is that ya think?

I grew up in this little town, (returning here later in life) and I never remember seeing a homeless person on the streets ever and as a child no one came to school hungry. And it was unheard of for hospital patients to be placed in closets or hallways. And yet no one had much stuff...and certainly not a lot of money but it is quite apparent now that we had what we really needed.

This same little town now has more and more of the material stuff that dazzles the dinosaur crew. What they drool over. More development. More hustle and bustle. It has more shopping malls, and more stuff to buy in them. A newer hospital but a lot of closed beds. Fewer nurses. A frazzled emergency room running on overdrive. More lavish schools but parents must now fund-raise endlessly for simple supplies students need.

Why is that ya think? We have more and more stuff all around us but at the same time less and less of what really counts.

And where once tall Douglas Firs graced our highways, chainsaws now buzz and logging trucks roar by with their plunder, endlessly it seems. Now the dinosaurs luv the tourist trade and yet they can't see past their noses that it is our wilderness that the tourists really come here for. You can find a shopping mall just about anywhere now...and they all look alike. But a towering old growth forest? Now that's real dazzle for you.

And these same tyrannosaurus rex twits will fawn over an Emily Carr painting in an art gallery and not understand in the least what she was trying to say about what is truly sacred in life...about the pricelessness of nature, of the alive world.

Now the deadness of money, that they seem obsessively drawn to, always finding the pricetag on the painting more valuable than the thing itself. And that's probably what they should frame on their walls ...a series of pricetags...of everything they have pricetagged and sold out in this province: the people's resources and assets, certainly the poor and most vulnerable... and yes, even in regards to the Olympics - the real meaning of sport which includes a sense of integrity and honour...and winning the race by not trampling others into the ground.

So it's not about money and never has been... it's about knowing what is valuable in life.

And the dinosaur crew with their murky view from the swamp seem incapable of making that very critical distinction.

Maybe it's time to move on.

The people you speak of Lynn are unfortunate. I've no idea what happened to them or their livelihoods but I do know that industries move, mines close, trees are all gone; cotton , wool and wood mills close and every time people move on. Always have throughout history. Ever heard of Schefferville, Quebec? Inco moved on and so did most of the rest of the town. Ever heard of Scotia, California? One of the forest company towns to stay alive, just. Many closed. Perhaps some of the people you speak of have got to re-educate themselves and move into the new technology world. Many blacksmiths had to do that when personal horse travel went out of style. I have to continually learn new technologies otherwise I'd become a dinosaur and would be able to make a living. As a professional it would be impossible to run my business without knowledge of computers and software. Fifteen years ago this was completely un-required in my field. Can't stop it, have to keep up or go and live in the woods.

We all live on a yellow submarine

realisticman,

I don't think it's a question of keeping up but more of having been kept down. It's the new feudalism... born out of the dark magic of the gods of privatization, where profit and greed relentlessly trump human values.

When it comes to "moving on" there are limits... "alway have throughout history" doesn't necessarily mean always will. Sometimes recovery is impossible when we stretch the limits too far. That is the great risk we take on a finite Earth when we do not acknowledge what is truly of value in life.

And surely, in all fairness, the comparison is facile

These poor souls who are now ON the streets, and many thousands - perhaps as many as a hundred thousand (just in Vancouver itself) - who hover just above the level of desperation - like those Indo-Canadian farm workers whose ride to work turned into a nightmare this morning on highway No 1 - are not in any way capable of making the kinds of choices you or I as professionals can make.

They are the unintended victims, but at the some time the necessary cogs or the foundation upon which our prosperity and our selfishness is grounded. Surely, they share the same fundamental humanity all of us share and we owe them more than the advice to just 'move on'.

I can't accept that you actually believe such a thing. All work, all life, all humanity has a claim and a right to equal dignity - it is not a case of them and us.
And yet, that's what the Olympics - as they are being planned, as they will be executed, are for this society. At least so it seems to me.

We should look after our ‘family’ first and then, when they are fed and clothed and housed - we have a party. Because then we have a right to celebrate and an achievement to be proud of. That would be a principle worthy of becoming an Olympic motto.

Don't Worry, be Happy!

If you haven't seen the Eiffel Tower, Lynn you should. Walk up to the second floor, it takes a while, I have. Have lunch on the first 'stage' at the ALTITUDE 95 restaurant. Contemplate the Paris of 1889, then get back to me.

Someone should have talked to the Americans

Wouldn't a real architectural monument - say the project designed by Daniel Libeskind - have been a much better monument to the memory of those whose lives were lost on 9/11 than the war in Iraq has been?

www.daniel-libeskind.com

That the French idea of creating a humane and decent city, as envisioned by Baron Haussmann's renovation and rebuilding of medieval Paris, a project which virtually invented the idea of urban planning, including the rules by which buildings could be built and renovated, dozens of public parks, sewers and decent housing as well as a safe and reliable water supply was more than enough justification for the erection of the Eiffel Tower.

If we could only do as well.

Thank you so much realisticman for pointing out the obvious disconnect between then and our own little Olympic project.

Keeping our fingers crossed

There's one possibility, the Oval now under construction in Richmond. Richmond has bitten off a big chunk here since it is Richmond alone that is financing this $178 million project. Niether Vancouver nor BC will not have to pay for it. It might be wonderful. It wil transform the waterfront and the surrounding area.

Libeskind

To attract great architects one either needs an enlightened government or serious-money philanthropy. For the latter BC needs to maintain and expand an attractive business environment so that people like Michael Lee-Chin of Toronto will endow institutions with large donations of money, as he did for the Libeskind design for the ROM, which is almost complete.

If we want inspiring architecture the last thing that we need is people like a previous NDP Education Minister, Paul Ramsey, who, when asked about schools said that, "the first thing that you do when you build a new school is you don't hire a fancy-assed architect." Future schools, he added, are "not going to be monuments to architectural inventiveness."

Many people groaned and rolled their eyes at this stunningly comment from a self confessing philistine - and they didn't forget. A recent study factually pointed out how children learn better in more attractive environments.

Well, Paul, the first thing we do when we consider fine architecture is remember to not vote for the NDP, for the sake of the beauty of our cities and for the well-being of our children.

I'm sorry realisticman

With all respect, you've completely missed the point.

The Liebeskind project at the ROM has as much to do with whom Daniel is married to as anything else. My remarks, relative to monumental architecture were clearly addressed to the United States and the completely predictable debacle that is the continuing obscenity of the Iraq War. I’ll address Paul Ramsey and the economic realities of the period when he was capable of making some difference another time. It is beside the point I want to underline here and, I’d submit, brings absolutely nothing to the table.

In any case, as you should have been clever enough to understand, the main point I was trying to make was relative to your false dichotomy between Vancouver and Paris in the period up to the Olympics ( in Vancouver's case) and before the 1889 exhibition (in Paris's) Even Eiffel's Tower likely wouldn't have bee built without the support of one of Haussmann's appointees – a fellow you may have forgotten - Jean Alphand. The artists and architects of the time were all aghast at Eiffel’s erection during the planning stages.

To spell it out is plain terms, Haussmann - in a wide variety of ways, brought the safe and healthy industrial city into being in Paris during his 'reign'. There was something truly noble to celebrate.

In Vancouver, this is a celebration of neglect and greed. There’s been no achievement whatever. Your analogy could not have been more inapt, in my opinion. Lynn might not know the history. I do.

errata

'wouldn't have 'been' built....' in the middle of para 3 above.

And in para 4 substitute 'in' for 'is'.

As for the Tour Eiffel

It's also an interesting exclamation mark in the divergence of engineering from architecture. There was a famous protest in Paris after the contract for the thing was signed in 1887.

In light of your dismissive remarks about Paul Ramsey and alleged 'philistines’, I'd remind you of the wording of that protest, delivered to the chairman of the Exhibition Committee (I suppose the 19th century equivalent of VANOC):

Quite a bunch of Philistines eh?

Hindsight is, as always, 20/20.

I’ll let events spin out as they always do and give you my final verdict when I see the speed-skating oval. My impression of the value of the games as a sincere attempt to address the real problems of the city itself (and its people) – well, I’ll be more than surprised if anything good comes from them at all.

No need to be sorry

It's OK Garth. We're just jawing.

I'll bet that not one of them would today say that it shouldn't have been built.

Let's hope that 20/20 on 2010 is also rosy.

Oh I'm not sorry, not at all

I just wish you'd gotten the point the first time. Would have saved me a lot of time - the comparison was bizarre. In Paris at the time there was real effort to fix things; in BC, at this time, all the effort goes into pretending there's not a problem.

I think you need to read a little more carefully.

Did you get to see Barry's old house?

Oh and

Labels, self-assigned or otherwise, are not. If I had taken opposite sides of questions and debates to just stir the pot and promote controversy you would have a point. I didn’t.

Anyone who makes electoral decisions on the basis of the 'architecture' would have to be, in my view, a little silly.

We also need to remember that Napoleon III was no democrat. But then neither, in my opinion is Gordon Campbell.

I think some of the architecture commissioned during the three NDP terms in this province is not an unimpressive legacy of the built arts...and I'd have to say that Bennett the elder is owed some thanks in that area too.

Under the current administration, all the emphasis has been finding ways to devolve responsibility onto one or another of the premier's many developer friends. I notice there is a fine list of them now on the boards of our public universities. You should check it out.

We are in very sad and compromised shape. When a colleague and I were discussing a new appointment to the board at UVic he said, and I quote "Oh well, the only thing that matters is the size of their wallet."

I fear for 2010, let alone 2020.

Some good Points

I must say that I do appreciate the research you did on the Eiffel naysayers.

Precisely my point. At the time many prominent people, that we undoubtedly would be glad to consider our contemporaries or aquaintances were we to have been there, were against the monstrous plan; at the time. We now, however, know full well that were they to be asked whether or not the Tower, which has become the very symbolic icon of France herself, should have been built the answers would be conclusively in the affirmative. Even certainly left leaning casual aquaintances we occilate by in cyberspace, like Lynn, wax romantically over the egomaniacal Eiffel Tower folly.

I am, as you know, quite sanguine. As the few contrarians insist on engaging in the debate I intend to proffer my perspective. Let's hope, as you say, that our 20/20 vision on 2010 will be as positive. May I quote you?

Fat Cats

It is a shame that this province has been frequently governed by less than those that emit even the illumination of a wayward asteroid, let alone a star. Never have I considered that our present guy is the sharpest knife in the drawer but at least the economy is moving along. That's an improvement. That's why I support them.

But you still don't have the real point

Haussmann had created, in Paris at the time, the beginnings of a decent place for Parisians of all classes to live. Compared with what had gone before it was like night and day.

Therefore they HAD something good, something concrete and something egalitarian to celebrate, and the 1889 exhibition was a legitimate celebratory exercise for that reason - in addition the French were recovering from the effects of their defeat in the Franco-Prussian War.

That's why the comparison you drew for Lynn was so inappropriate and why I had to point it out.

We here in Vancouver are creating a culture, which is more like New York City at the butt end of the Gilded Age. A society built on inequality, greed and fear - not to mention crime and government corruption. We are in very bad shape and only the shine on the apple is rosy – underneath it is rotten to the core.

That's why the Olympics, in my opinion, are not only wrong - but immoral.

By the way, no thanks necessary for the research - it's a big part of my field and I love Paris too.

We ought to be ashamed of the way we treat our friends and neighbours our brothers and sisters and our children and young people; not crowing about how great we are. Because we're not.

Not at all.

Paris in 1889 had good reason to party.

Vancouver in 2010 is just embarrassing itself. I hope we get really embarrassed because in my view nothing else will change what is a headlong rush to destruction from internal dissention and contradictions. The economy is the least of it.

I do appreciate the civil tone.

The Gold Medal for Child Poverty

realisticman writes:

British Columbia has the highest child poverty rate of all the provinces in Canada.

The child poverty rate in BC is at 23.9 per cent compared with the national average of 17.6 per cent.

This is "moving along"? This is an "improvement"? No, this is shameful.

And by the way, Eiffel (with the help of some other donors) funded the construction of The Eiffel Tower largely himself.

What would the present dinosaur crew do if they ever had to actually use and risk their own money instead of stealing all our critically-needed public funding to finance projects designed for their private profits?

Don't worry

Say's who Lynn? How can it be fixed? Cheaper food? Not what some people say. According to what I hear the regulated prices that keep many basic foods expensive here is just what most people on the 'left' want.

A casual glance at the loaded shopping carts in poorer neighbourhoods, and from my limited overnight stays in a few completely subsidized communities in remote parts of this province, and anecdotal information from others, I can only say that most people are eating junk that neither I nor Morgan Spurlock would go near. All the children I have seen are properly clothed and shod, as opposed to what I've seen in other places.

Regarding your follow-up on Eiffel I'm not certain. The French Review of 1989 says," The Eiffel Tower Revisited
The government financed the original project, with the agreement that Eiffel owned and would repay the investment from income generated by the Tower, ..."

My library doesn't substantiate your claim. More research is required since we now have contradictory quotes. Like you I favour private rather than public projects and I'm pleased the the public input into the Olympic Oval here is limited to around 1/3rd of the total cost. P3's are better than saddling us taxpayers with the whole.

just to clarify

The grant of 1.5 million francs would not begin to cover the cost of completing the project, which was estimated at 6 million francs. Nonetheless, Eiffel accepted the risky terms of the agreement, and on January 1, 1887 -despite continuous growling from the naysayers-he took possession of the designated site on the Champ de Mars and prepared to build his tower.

Copyright © Paris Eiffel Tower News

It's interesting that revenue from fees declined precipitously after 1889 and only rose again after 1907 - Journal du Credit Public, Ap 25, 1929.

I'm not at all sure Eiffel ever made back his costs.
If Campbell and his cronies were willing to enter into a similar deal with, lets say the former owners of Intrawest (which was sold to other interests last summer, I believe), I'd have no problem with that arrangement._
Could you talk to your friends Realisticman?

You know perfectly well who's going to be stuck with the tab for this shindig. Be real.

Pricetagging Human Rights

Apparently the deal Gustave Eiffel and his funders struck with the government was that if they paid for the costs of construction, they would receive not only the profits but a permit that would allow the tower to stand for twenty years, then ownership would revert back to the government and back to The City of Paris.

Now if our BC dinosaur crew with their small dinosaur brains, and even smaller amount of foresight, had been in power in France at that time they would have given those private developers a 999-year lease!... and thus sold the people of France down the (Seine) river for a thousand years!

As for poverty, perhaps you should read this insightful piece by Arundhati Roy and connect the dots but somehow I feel no matter what argument is offered you prefer a world that is totally price-tagged, every last inch of it, including forests, water, the very air we breathe:

There was pious talk of having access to drinking water declared a Basic Human Right. How would this be implemented, you might ask. Simple. By putting a market value on water. By selling it at its "true price." (It's common knowledge that water is becoming a scarce resource. One billion people in the world have no access to safe drinking water.) The "market" decrees that the scarcer something is, the more expensive it becomes. But there is a difference between valuing water and putting a market value on water. No one values water more than a village woman who has to walk miles to fetch it. No one values it less than urban folk who pay for it to flow endlessly at the turn of a tap.
So the talk of connecting human rights to a "true price" was more than a little baffling. At first I didn't quite get their drift. Did they believe in human rights for the rich, that only the rich are human, or that all humans are rich? But I see it now. A shiny, climate-controlled human rights supermarket with a clearance sale on Christmas Day.

One marrowy American panelist put it rather nicely: "God gave us the rivers," he drawled, "but he didn't put in the delivery systems. That's why we need private enterprise." No doubt with a little Structural Adjustment to the rest of the things God gave us, we could all live in a simpler world. (If all the seas were one sea, what a big sea it would be . . . Evian could own the water, Rand the earth, Enron the air. Old Rumpelstiltskin could be the handsomely paid supreme CEO.)

When all the rivers and valleys and forests and hills of the world have been priced, packaged, bar-coded, and stacked in the local supermarket, when all the hay and coal and earth and wood and water have been turned to gold, what then shall we do with all the gold? Make nuclear bombs to obliterate what's left of the ravaged landscapes and the notional nations in our ruined world?...

Let's begin at the beginning. What does privatization really mean? Essentially, it is the transfer of productive public assets from the state to private companies. Productive assets include natural resources. Earth, forest, water, air. These are assets that the state holds in trust for the people it represents.

In a country like India, seventy percent of the population lives in rural areas. That's seven hundred million people. Their lives depend directly on access to natural resources. To snatch these away and sell them as stock to private companies is a process of barbaric dispossession on a scale that has no parallel in history.

lol

mais oui ma cherie.

merci boucoup!

;-D

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