Applause?

Not being that familiar with this subject, I can't wait to hear the reaction of the various advocacy groups.
It should be positive, but we all know there will be those special interest groups that are burning the midnight oil, trying to find a way of spinning this brilliant move by the Government, into some kind of evil plot to screw the poor and unfortunate people it's actually going to help.
This BC Liberal Party must be confounding it's critics, and driving the neutered NDP mad.
Good going Mr. Coleman.

Boos

You got that right, Ron. As usual, you know nothing. That the government should have to break its own rules and enter the market in a subterfuge in order to be able to accomplish its social goals should tell you what a mess the "market-driven solution" you so fervidly espouse are in.

Governments should not be reduced to acting in subterfuge, except in criminal matters. That this one has demonstrates the bankruptcy of their housing scheme.

However, I will give you one credit - without the Olympics - which I NEVER supported - the homeless might still be forbidden by the law, in its egalitarian majesty, from sleeping under bridges, in parks or on streets. Just like the rich are so forbidden...(Anatole France)

Sounds like it's too little too late, however, for Gordo to avoid more embarrassment. 882 units, to take care of the more than 1000 now, and estimated 3000 by 2010, is a swallow of water to a band in the desert. Good luck hosting your trouble-free Olympics, Ron. Ain't gonna happen....

Wanna buy a swamp, IAMC?

So inversely, I would assume that you actually believe the provincial government (e.g., Coleman, Campbell et.al.) actually give a rat's ass about the homeless and are not doing this for some other motive? I've got a swamp in Florida you might be interested in buying.

As far as "brilliant" goes, you must have a different dictionary than I do. The ability to pull the wool over the eyes of anyone who, in the first place, would actually think these folks are the least bit altruistic is obviously far from difficult and therefore far from "brilliant".

IAMC:

Yes.
Let's watch the chattering all-talk ideological pharisees wind up with stones...

Motive? Who cares ?...the end result is the buildings future have been somewhat finally secured with Public ownership to help the less fortunate. There are no protections of Private Property rights,yet that implies, by both de facto and default, that Public Property is actually THE most secured form of ownership.

Perhaps the advocates for the homeless etc. can claim credit for keeping the issue Public and forcing Gov't to be far more Pro-Active than it would have been otherwise. That's how democracy works...opposing forces ultimately work together as a check and balance for the common good. The retort would be their own representative party, the NDP, did squat and acted like neutered deer in headlights.

This seems to indicate a new direction of what to me was the only real solution, which I have postd many times. GOV'T BUYS IT AND THUS SECURES IT AND ITS FUTURE USE.

If the Gov't owns it, it controls it...if they rely on private owners to provide social housing, that is not a permanent solution, it is only a temporary one....and they can be sold , closed and SRO residents evicted.

This recent purchase of the SRO's by the current Provincial Gov't is simply MORE embarrassing to the NDP and their supporters...any criticism is simply to deflect attention away from their own deficiencies and ineptitude . Ideology never put a roof over anyone's head...this pro-active and pragmatic move by a Non NDP Gov't actually does.

...

You won't get that from me, this one of the few moves by the Libs that I'll support. Sure, I'm suspicious of their motives but ultimately don't care what they are.

I think what's amusing is how many liberal supporters are willing to bite their tongue for their beloved Gordo. I think we can all agree the howls of outrage if this had been an NDP government's initiative. I have to admit, I enjoy seeing IAMC supports more tax dollars being spent on the homeless. Who knew he had such love for big government?

Difficult Situation

Firstly, the should let everything on Granville and Richards, go the way of development. I have no problems with this.

My wife's best friend from highschool lives in subsidized housing in Burnaby. She's a single mother, working a $13 hour job. Without the subsidized housing, she (and her kid) would be screwed. She can barely make it as is, we've had to help her out a couple of times - just to make it though the month. I've offered to pay for college, she's declined (she's just over 30) - so she'll probably be stuck where she is for a while.

She's fairly responsible, and is set-up in a decent little townhouse. These are the type of people that need our help - and much more, deserve our help.

The street level poor are the ones I have no interest in. They can't be integrated at all, be counted on to pay any bills, or not destroy anything you set them up with.

Let's renovate a bunch of these old (nasty) buildings into 250 sq ft. units - equipped with a single bed and a sink. Atleast they'll have somewhere to stay.

This will free up a lot more time and money for those who deserve our assistance.

All I know is that there is more than enough money in the system. We are wasting it. Government programs have been run for years to benefit the government worker.

The best social program is a good economy. Let's create good jobs and demand for employees.

This isn't "housing"

Let's remember these are fleabag hotels, have been fleabag hotels and will continue to be, in all likelihood, slightly less offensive fleabag hotels.

This is not stable affordable social housing.

All this does is prevent the conversion of these rooms into a different kind of occupancy (or avoid their outright destruction). This does absolutely nothing to address the homelessness situation as Paulsen points out in this quote from Townsend:

This does absolutely nothing to address the homelessness and affordable housing crisis in the downtown east side apart from preventing, for a few months, a further deterioration of the situation.

I suppose that's better news than if these rooms had been sold to private developers and been removed entirely from the sector, but, to say this is reflective of any real progress in addressing a long time problem that is going to be just as big a problem the day after the province takes possession in May or June. I'm not at all convinced by Coleman's announcement that no residents will be evicted subsequent to that takeover and I'm even less sanguine about the other part of the Government's and the city's commitment:

The City of Vancouver plans to build another 10 to 15 buildings of supportive housing, and to disperse that housing throughout the city. The city is presently conducting a series of community meetings to discuss its supportive housing strategy with residents.

That sounds a lot like Coleman and Sullivan are just indulging in more spin.

Time will tell.

Well alleluia. Of course

Well alleluia.

Of course this is a welcome bit of action. Question is, why wasn't this done ages ago? Unfortunately, I don't detect a hint of compassion or remorse from our rulers, only the smell of political expediency. The truth is our elite masters don't give a phuque for the people but the homelessness optics for 2010 were too glaring. So magically the money appears to finally begin to address this obscene disgrace. Great, and disgusting.

And now, here is the real story!

Setting:

A fews ago. A telephone conversation.

IOC chap: "Hello Premier Campbell, how was your holiday in Hawaii?"

Premier Campbell: "Um er fine, the Olympics are on budget, Furlong promised."

IOC chap: "Fine, fine, but we have had some disturbing rumors that you have a mini terror group, going round trashing IOC events, is this correct?"

P.C.: No, no, just a bunch of homeless rabble rouser's, do nothings, that's all."

IOC chap: "We have seen videos of some pretty ugly areas in Vancouver and Vancouver is the 2nd most livable city in the world, say it isn't so."

P.C.: "Oh no, no, no, they love the outdoor life, back to basics, they are happy."

IOC chap: "We are not happy, an Olympic city is a happy city and your city is not happy, do something."

P.C.: "Maybe we can give them one-way bus tickets to Quebec, the feds are pumping billions into that province?"

IOC chap: "Well , we are not like you, lying on sunny beaches, we talked to Calgary and Salt Lake City, and they be very pleased to be a happy Olympic city. They are such happy cities."

P.C.: Um, er, what can we do about it?

IOC chap: "We hear that your province has billions in surplus, we'll leave it up to you. Ah yes, I have a feeling that if we do not hear positive things, we may be flying to Salt Lake, with a stop over in Calgary.........."

Verso....

Verso:

I don't bite my tongue for our Premier. I trust him. He's been a tremendous Premier - sound fiscal policy, responsible - and really seen this province upgrade from a have-not laughing stock, to a province people want to live in again. We have so much infrastructural development planned in this province - bridges, roads, public transit, etc. etc.

I've been very critical of Flaherty the fool. I've been less so of Harper, though I think they've brought forth two pathetic budgets.

What Flaherty has caused with this income trusts debacle is a crying shame. Sure, he was right to address the tax haven, but the Bloc and Liberals were right - a ten year transition period was necessary. The market has bludgeoned these trusts - now we're starting to see these massive U.S. buyout firms picking through the rubble, and snatching up good Canadian businesses.

Flaherty says its not his fault - sure Jimbo. He says there is all sorts of uninvested capital - and he's right!! Though, these buyout firms are value chasers. They look for companies trading at firesale prices (which has occurred thanks to our trust decision), but them, chew them up and spit them out - for a very hefty profit. Meanwile, economic activity is heading South of the Border!!

My point is - that i'll never bite my tongue. Campbell just does very little wrong!

Verso:

Many things reach their tipping point and point of critical mass.

This one's (re: SRO and Public purchase of them ) has finally come.

Resistance in these types of cases can ultimately be futile, though Gov't is, ironically, often the most resistant to change. Yeah, perhaps the Olympic loomed(which I am 100% against) and this initiative to purchase SRO buildings allows for less controversial solutions to homelessness etc. before the 2010 Olympics commences . In a backhanded way, perhaps the 2010 Olympics ended up as THE catalyst to the Pro-Active SRO /social housing solution.

Unfortunately, and again on the " Why Re-invent the Wheel ??? " topic, this type of solution has been invented elsewhere, which often ticks me off. It seems that the local authorities have to make it appear they invented what is often the one and only , or at least most pragmatic solution, which has also been successfully tried in practice elsewhere .

One more point....on the " re-invent the wheel front "...the NDP and the Left does NOT have a monopoly on Virtue and good works for their fellow man, especially the less fortunate, ...just perhaps the copyright(cc) to the same old tired sermons.

Regardless,and setting political partisanship aside, this looks like the all -important start on the journey towards a Win -Win solution for EVERYone.

BIG Surprise ...no surprise.

Not hard to avoid my friend, you usually have your foot in your mouth.

So far, nothing's actually happened on this file. Some SRO Hotels (currently occupied) are not being sold to private interests.

Not a single NEW or additional housing unit has been provided.

This is news!

Keep chewing the shoe leather, it's save wear and tear on the tongue.

The protests should continue - nothing good has happened - something bad has just been put off.

Nothing here to cheer about. No solutions yet - just, as always is the case from Campbell and Sullivan, a lot of talk and $80M spent that was already budgeted.

I wonder if the Premier has sublet some of his media spinners to the city.

Well, my prophecy on the Pharisees was " right" on.

Just can't keep a good ideologue down.

" ....Always look on the bright side of life ...."

Song from Monty Python "Life of Brian" -sky

I thus presume that the SRO purchases are simply future investments ultimately requiring some sort of future return ?

Waste of taxpayers money

What a waste! $80 million wasted to keep a bunch of drug addicted, alcoholic losers off the street. These people have a death wish. Let them OD and croak, it is more cost effective.

It will be great when the safe injection site closes.

Anything that is done to help these criminal losers, either via housing or safe injection sites, makes the problem worse since it makes it easier to lead this lifestyle.

The only way to help these people is actually to enforce the law and put them all in jail.

And for the record, I also opposed the olympic spending as well.

Nothing ideological about it

I just have a taste for facts and the truth.

So far, nothing has happened - the destruction of SR Occupancy structures in the DTES has just been slowed - that's all.

Just a nice opportunity for the spin-meisters to get Campbell some of the face time he's afraid to provide in the Legislature. Let's wait and see if he's in his seat on April 16.

If he is, we'll find out then if he's really ready to answer some questions that haven't been focus-grouped and tested for him first.

Campbell Bowed Under Pressure

Firstly and for the record, I beleive that this is a positive step. Every human deserves a chance to move forward with thier lives and they won't be able to without adequate housing. Unlike the callous rants by flattax, most decent Canadians still believe that a healthy community is more important than the wealth of an individual.

As far as Campbell/Coleman et al are concerned... thier actions proved that the anti-olympic protests were indeed very effective. If you think this greedy bunch of political thugs are actually interested in social wellfare, you are kidding yourself. Campbell was and is frightened of being completely and totally embarassed during the highly televised sports orgy otherwise known as the 2010 five ring circus.

Yesterday's press conference announcement was a desperate attempt at avoiding embarrasment and exposing BC as the callous , selfish and eletist haven that it truly is.

verso and Cappy

verso, I agree with you. Even if the motivation is to look like they're doing something before the Olympics, as Grumpy said, I'll take it.

Cappy,

The NDP didn't get access to those have-not federal transfer dollars. The NDP had to survive during federal cutbacks. The Liberals set a deficit record when they came into office and then rode the "have-not" federal gravy train (along with low interest rates and rising commodity prices).

And even with all that federal money coming down the pipe they have thrown money at problems and somehow, through bad management obviously, made things worse. I'm thinking of health care and education. Where overall absolute dollars have increased yet class sizes have increased and health care outcomes have worsened. I have no idea how the Campbell gov't can even be called competent when they have failed to improve the systems they are responsible for during a rare moment in history when the feds can't give them enough money.

And its not just health and education where their competence is questionable. The Olympics is a boondoggle which just keeps sucking money.

Actually I liked that decision. I may not have been happy with other decisions on daycare and silly tax breaks that don't affect the people who need it but on the income trusts thing Flaherty gets high praise. Very unexpected but very welcome.

That does sound disconcerting, if you have a link to more information on this topic I'd like to read it.

Frank

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070403.wxrtrusts03/BNStory/Business/

This is his response. He basically says, and he's right, that there is excess liquidity in the markets. The money has to go somewhere. M&A activity is well above average. Read the article. He's wrong...even company executive are saying they put themselves up for sale because of his decision..

Frank - I was pissed about the decision at first. I made my money back the next day though. I day traded for a couple of days in that volatile market and made up most of my losses. Ironically, my biggest hit was Telus (which I still hold). It dropped 20% that day. Though, it had popped 20% a month earlier upon announcing they were going to convert. Flaherty was right to address the problem.

However, what he created was widescale panic. Pensioners took the hardest hit and Bay Street took its lumps too! They've been destroyed and what the buyout firms are seeing is - strong cash flows, good businesses and tremendous valuations!

They should have phased taxes in over 10 years and provided other measures to prevent this. He's an idiot - terrible budgets full of vote-buying, targeted tax cuts.

Frank

G gets me all wrong. I don't want to see Canada controlled by the large multi-nationals. You go to the US, and you can't even find a good coffee shop. All you see is Starbucks!

I believe we should participate in the global economy, but we have designed it so that we are the acquisition targets. The mining, financial and oil and gas industries are the only ones doing it right.

I believe in small/medium business, operating efficiently and effectively and cutting through the nonsense.

If we act, we can be players in this world. We can be influential - a clean country, ripe with opportunity. We don't have to be sacrificial lambs.

Obviously, good Canadian companies are going to be acquired. There was a time when two of our biggest icons, Timmy's and Molsons, were actually owned by Americans!

We need to provide incentives to bring world leading companies and think tanks - HERE!!! We need to foster an environment of risks and opportunities.

This isn't about keeping the poor, poor. And putting ourselves up for sale. This is about being a leader.

Just no pleezin ya, eh G West ?

Purchase of these SRO buildings has ,at minumum , prevented evictions.

As I have posted many times on this topic, Gov'ts appear to prefer downloading the Landlord / Social Housing business to the Private Sector...ie basement suites , SRO's etc.

However, for Gov't to now become a Landlord, at least via formal ownership of these types of housing units, is a major quantum leap in the progression. Call it more of a "no way turning back" now type- of -precedent. As a further possibility, these now Publically -owned SRO's may be run through 2nd parties, ie non -profit societies , and haven't even you, G West alluded to this in the past ? (ie U.S examples ?).

I would sense that any Gov't would not dare change the use of these now Publically -owned buildings other than for social housing, and with these same buildings improved to higher standards and upgrades to the current building code. That would be very politically volatile, and in a cost vs. benfit analysis, the political cost would easily trump the perceived political etc. benefit.

However, one hopes that these newly acquired living units won't morph into a roof over the hands of In -Site "Harm reduction" clientele...and abused to increase the comfort zone of self -abuse. Time to go full circle and set them on the proper road from a far less -self destructive path and thus to a far more productive and fulfilling life , rather than continually expressing their negative personal version of "free will and democratic choice".

I see this latest SRO social housing experiment as potentially arousing the wrath of the General Public if this ends up back as another ghetto to again further hide roots of the same overall problems.

Unfortunately my own guess is that it could very easily become an adjunct to the In-Site situation rather than a solution IF, and I repeat IF this isn't dealt with from Day One with a far more comprehensive pro-active plan, and not just another band-aid in the societal First Aid kit.

Quote:He basically says, and

The money should never have been sloshing around doing nothing anyway. Under income trusts it was being distributed and retained earnings were being devastated. Many of the profits were going offshore attracting nothing but withholding tax - now the same companies are being snatched up by foreign equity investors - bit deal. No increased productivity and the dollars that should have been taxed away are still not going to build a decent society for the whole population - they're increasingly in the hands of a smaller and smaller elite. And that’s the problem; a problem that’s getting worse by the day.

What's needed here is a fair taxation system whereby all earnings are treated the same.

I don't believe in the fairy tales about an attractive investment climate anyway. We have services, assets and commodities that the world wants and we're giving them away and benefiting none but a small group of people who have had the tax system designed to play the game they want it played.

Let's turn the system around and put the elites in their place and make them pay their own way instead of letting the tax system finance the sell-out of our own country and resources.

Your system has never cared about the poor. It, and you, only care about yourself.

I'm surprised you're not playing the mercantile exchange these days cappy, that's where the real money is right now. Be a better place to play with your inheritance than the equity market right now. No charge for the advice.

maestro

We'll have to wait and see. Did you not read the column? There is a statement to this effect:

Which indicates to me that we'll have to wait till BC Housing actually takes possession before we can judge the "final" result, and, as some housing activists have noted, nothing about this means that there still won't be evictions before 2010.

Remember Expo.

Alright G

Listen, I had a minor inheretance which helped me pay off student loans and put a down payment on a place. Since then I've worked very hard, taken a lot of risks, and invested a lot of time, in doing stuff that I love. Give up the inheretance talk. You are the punk that went to some swanky private school.

Secondly, I know you've know nothing about "business". We disagree on whether you understand the "economy" - but I can't tell for certain you know nothing about business - what it takes, how it takes it and when it takes it...

However, any business, when deciding on a new venture performs a type of SWOT analysis. It might be Porter's Five Forces, SWOT or PEST - or it may be very informal - much like how our business operates.

Every singe method considers political forces. We consider everything from taxes, incentives, municipal, provincial and federal regulations. We ask ourselves, where is it easiest to do business?? A decision is not based exclusively on this, but this is a major component.

Now most are ethical and most care more about society than you think. However, businesses are going to go where they'll be successful - and political interference is but one of the major factors.

Your propositions will undermine our position as a competitive place to do business. We all know you don't care - but most people do - which is why they recognize what happens when your people get in charge. Thankfully, we had the NDP in the 90s. While there was short term pain, there is long term gain. People will never forget what happened to our province....

I don't care about the street poor. I've said that before. They don't deserve anything, until they decide to take responsibility. They will only destroy whatever you put in their lives.

I do care about honest people, trying to make an honest living. Good people that have made a few bad decisions, or have had bad luck. I've given more (in donations and company fundraising) in one year, than you'll give over the course of your life to different causes. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Unfortunately, people like you pimp the poor - and call successful people greedy, selfish and uncaring - which is not the case. I don't get offended, because I've come accross people like you before. I know what you are all about. However, sometimes I wish you'd be a little more reflective.

I appreciate the insights of most people on this board, obviously you aren't one of them. You've been better since you were uncovered as a fraud, but this last message was garbage.

Kudos

It's rare that I get an opportunity to congratulate Premier Campbell for getting it right--but this is one such time, so...

Kudos, Mr. Premier. It's the right thing to do and it was high time to do it.

Kudos also to both the bad boys & girls and the peacful protesters who got out there and convinced the powers-that-be that NOT tackling the problem was going to make their lives a lot more uncomfortable than biting the bullet and just doing it.

VANOC/IOC Fold Under Pressure re 2010

VANOC will do the least amount possible to deal with issues of social concern, and so will their Olympic partners - the municipal, provincial and federal governments.

You might have noticed that Olympic sponsors like Visa, HBC, Rona, etc, all stay clear of anything controversial regarding 2010. The last thing they want is for consumers to connect them with social challenges regarding the 2010 Olympics. (Have you noticed that Rona commercials on local television do not carry the Olympics logo? I'm not sure why, but if a company pays all that money you would think they'd be proud to tell everyone of their Olympic connection.)

In the past, Olympic sponsors only had to worry about "local" backlash," which they could easily manage. They considered it a cost of doing business. Today however, average citizens in Olympic regions like Vancouver, can reach around the world and tell consumers everywhere that Olympic sponsors, as a result of their silence, contribute to Olympic-related social problems.

Staying silent regarding the homeless and other social issues is unethical considering that sponsors make a fortune off the Olympics on the back of the community. NBC for example boasted that they sold advertising to almost 4 billion Olympic viewers while Turin threatened bankruptcy and to cancel their 2006 Games unless taxpayers paid the ransom at the eleventh hour - 2 months before showtime.

What used to be a local challenge for Olympic sponsors like the RBC, is now, thanks to the internet, a national and international marketing concern. Prospective sponsors around the world will think twice about connecting their corporate names to anything that has the potential to negatively impact their reputations and shareholder value.

Issues like homelessness occur in ALL Olympic regions in the free world, and it's reprehensible that Olympic organizations and elected officials don't take a proactive stance and do something before being forced to as a result of bad publicity. Don't let them fool you into thinking that Vancouver / Whistler is special and this is an anomaly. This stuff happens in almost all Olympic regions and in exactly the same manner and timeline.

Everyone foolishly trusts Olympic organizations to do the right thing. By the time citizens figure out what is going on, and react, it is often too late.

For example, even though, on the surface, Bill C-47 looks like it was introduced to make it harder for people to "ambush" the Games in a commercial way, it is also designed to hinder local organizations from telling the world what is happening in our Olympic region. The "C" stands for Censoring. Bills like this are passed in almost all Olympic regions.

Maurice Cardinal
Editor: OlyBLOG.com
Author: Leverage Olympic Momentum

Just the Street Poor?

Where do you draw the line on caring? What about those just one step above the street poor? Might as well stop caring about them too as they're next on the street. OK, now whose next out there? The working poor. Cheque to cheque they go, pretty iffy, especially if those cheques stop coming in. You captains of industry and commerce, you really don't care about anyone below you. Just as long as you get your trickle down fix... At least old money understands the world, you and the rest of the new capitalists with their NEW money all shiney and sparkly think you've invented the the fukking world! You can't even acknowledge you understand how nature will eventual do the accounting for you! You're funny! Also soon extinct. "I get no kicks from champagne..."

G West

Of course..its inherently understood that Gov't will have to upgrade these SRO's it now owns and all the collateral consequences that goes with that new plan. aka a No- Brainer.

This will include engineering assessments, evaluations, recommendations, stakeholder input etc., etc.

Like any developer, one must FIRST secure the land..in this case the building as well ..as part of the comprehensive package to faciliate the overall plan. This all important FIRST step has been done.

Obviously while the upgrades occur...some SRO residents will have to move,that situation will need to be addressed, but its all part of the new evolution that goes along with this new direction.

PS Bro' : Don't always type with your Left hand...used the RIGHT one concurrently.

VANOC's Hand Forced

Campbell, Sullivan and Furlong have no choice but to create an interim solution until the homeless issue abates. The fact that the average person can reach around the world via the internet and share information about our Vancouver region forces their hand. It's a new era, and Olympic organizations never factored in the exponential growth of Web 2.0 technology.

Consumers and taxpayers hold incredible and increasing power over the IOC. Just imagine what "prospective" Olympic host cities are thinking as they watch Vancouver implode. In the past, mainstream news media would not report homeless issues internationally, but now anyone who chooses to look can see that Vancouver isn't exactly what it is made out to be, and they can see that the Olympics cause many social problems. Who in their right mind would want to invite the Olympics into their region if they know it costs so much and creates such intense social upheaval? Sharing information is the key to managing your community.

Everyone in new Olympic regions always think that people from past Olympic regions are stupid and lazy. For example, Vancouverites refused to believe that we could fall into the same traps because somehow "we are more sophisticated and smarter." Well here we are suffering through what Salt Lake City, Athens and Turin went through. How smart do you feel now? It happens like this in almost all Olympic regions.

The next big issue re 2010 will be Aboriginal issues. Treaty talks are grinding to a halt with little resolution, and as soon as Aboriginal leaders figure out that they're being stalled they will use 2010 as a platform to tell the world how they have been treated in Canada. Australian Aboriginals figured it out early and created the "sorry" campaign to leverage Sydney 2000 Olympic momentum, and they got the recognition they wanted. They literally brought the IOC to its knees.

Don't be surprised if you see the "new First Nations billboards" that are to be placed beside the Lions Gate, Ironworkers, and Burrard bridges become political tools.

VANOC and the IOC won't do anything for the community unless they are forced. It's not their job.

VANOC's legal responsibility is to protect Olympic reputation.

It's up to you to protect your community.

Baloney

The vast majority of the tax revenue in this country comes from people who work for a living.

Not people who clip coupons and collect dividend tax credits.

* Personal income tax is the biggest revenue source. In 2004–05, it provided $89.8 billion in federal funding. That’s more than 45 per cent of all federal revenues.

* Revenues from the goods and services tax provided $29.8 billion, or 15 per cent of total federal funds.

* Corporate income tax raised about $30 billion, just over 15 per cent of federal finances.

* A number of other taxes—such as non-resident taxes, customs import duties, energy taxes and excise taxes on alcohol and tobacco—made up $16.7 billion, or nearly 81⁄2 per cent of revenues.

And if you break down the personal tax base you'll find that the vast majority of that revenue comes from source deductions from salary and not from capital gains and dividends.

I could care less where you got your money cappy - or how hard you work - you brought it up and you're the same guy who's always screaming about entitlements on these boards.

The fact is, my friend, you love to shovel it but you're not keen about getting some of it back and, obviously, the TRUTH hurts.

Tax every dollar - not matter how earned - no matter who earns it and we'll start to have a society that will become more fair and equitable - not the way things have been going since the 70s in this country.

You've had it your own way far too long.

And furthermore

I'd take anyone's bet any time that, given that kind of a revision to the tax laws in this country as a referendum choice that there would be at least 80% agreement to its implementation.

What's happening now is just plain criminal.

It's a start....

I'm with all of you who say it's a start. By preserving these SRO's and hopefully doing something to improve them.I am uneasy about the the possiblity of the engineers saying the buildings in question being too far gone then what? Is the Libs going to rebuild or sell off?
However, I'd like to know the agenda on increasing the affordable housing for the low income people of our province.
One woman was quoted on the news last night as saying that an additional 3200 spaces would be needed before 2010.
What are they going to do about it?

Homeless! Come to Vancouver! Free Housing!

Quote:

One woman was quoted on the news last night as saying that an additional 3200 spaces would be needed before 2010.
What are they going to do about it?

Response:

Make 3200 spaces by 2010! HAHA! You will need to double that. People will come from all over Canada to get their free social housing. Anything we do to alleviate the problem just makes Vancouver a magnet for more homeless!

We already have the mild climate and cheap dope that makes us a great place to live for the homeless. Combine that with cops that are afraid to go the DTES and enforce the law. City politicans have groomed and pandered to DERA for so long, they have created their own problem. Free social housing will just make things worse!

This $80 million was taxed from hard working middle class people. Just like the $2 billion for the olympics. It is painful to see it pissed away on the homeless and a 2 week party.

As an aside. I laugh at the police, the jokers they are. Taking false tips from DERA and the anti-poverty coalition to look for that olympic flag. The cops just make themselves look like idiots and DERA look like victims! They are getting played like a fiddle.

COPS: A tip for you! I know where the olympic flag is...It was buried under the olympic clock while the security guard was picking his nose...Go dig it up...

what a great story. the big

what a great story. the big bad liberals spend $80 million to create social housing and the lefty freaks are still crying. only on the left coast.

Close to home.

Aren't you afraid they'll find you if they start turning over Rocks?

Blonde Pitbull:

Good points...

I think the other devil in the details is given the mobility provisions in the Canadian Charter, as there are the reasonable concerns that if BC starts this SRO social housing program, NON B.C. resident parties may in-migrate into B.C. to take advantage of what would ultimately be a program funded by BC taxpayers.

I think it is fair and reasonable to say most BC Taxpayers would feel " Charity begins at home " if we are paying for this program with BC Taxpayer funds.

As we have discussed this SRO social housing topic many times before on the TYEE, I usually tried to tie my arguments in a quasi-full circle mode and that this should be a Federal initiative, not something that is quasi-downloaded onto the other levels of Gov't to deal with .

If the Charter has some double- edged pragmatism to it, I can't see how an argument cannot be made that the "mobility issue" also has tied to it the required Federally- funded social services provided "ON DEMAND" as the need, situation and circumstances warrant it.

Hence, if the BC Gov't initiative to provide this social housing tends to attract a large percentage of Non BC Residents...we will end up displacing our own ...and then the Feds should start ponying up.

Finally: There is also a limited number of existing SRO's even if the Gov't buys them all up. QUESTION: then what will be done to satisfy any future demand ?

Baloney West

Of course it comes from personal tax!! You try and find me a company (not an investment firm) who's net income exceeds its salaries and wages!

Salaries and wages are bigger than net income, both are taxed - which is going to lead to higher tax revenues???

This is the reason why we need more jobs and better jobs and a good economy!! You just don't get it G. Taxes are lower for corporations because, wait, they reinvest it! Or, if they are a bank, they'll pay some of it back to its shareholders in the form of dividends!!

Dividends are taxed!! Reinvestment requires employment, salaries and wages - - TAX!!!

Completely clueless West, completely out of touch!

flattax

you raise a good point - "if you build it they will come". It has been proven that the majority of DTES residents aren't even born here, in BC!!

I'm happy to address the problem - - however, first, you must prove you have ties with BC. You can't come here for our weather and demand access to our services without contributing!

Flattax

There's not much difference between you and the dirty, unshaven, drug scarred resident of the DTES that you see howling at the moon-except for money- you both need help.

Discrimination

You can't discriminate on the basis of when someone arrived in the province. Our blessed (sarcasm) Charter of Rights and Freedoms would never allow it.

If you do that, you may as well do it to the tax system as well.

I for one, would love to pay less tax since I was born here, and have recent immigrints pay more tax than me since they were not.

We already do that for the Aboriginals, they pay no tax on a reserve on the basis of them being here longer than anybody else. Lets apply it to everybody. Make a persons' tax rates dependent on how long their families have resided in the province. I love that.

So build poverty amenities and the huddled masses will come from all over Canada and we can't do anything about it...

Where homeless call home

"When asked which municipality they considered their last permanent home, the majority of homeless individuals (75%) who responded to this question reported somewhere in the GVRD. Another 8% considered home a location elsewhere in BC, 15% reported their last permanent home was elsewhere in Canada, and 1% reported their last permanent home outside of Canada."

-- Quote from page 16 of the public report on the 2005 Greater Vancouver Homeless Count.

Capitalism.

That new money really has gone to your head. Telling people where they can and cannot go! Revolution, where art thou?

On demand?....

The charter might give you the right to move anywhere in the country but BC has made it that you have to wait three months to collect social benefits. Even a permanent resident must wait three weeks before going through the week long (minimum) process. Hardly on demand these days....

No i'm sorry capitalism

You are the one who doesn't "get" it. Why don't you do a little research and check what those ratios were in the 60s and early 70s.

The huge upswing in corporate income and profit taking has all come since then and it has done very little good to the 80% of Canadians who make their living by actually working. And getting along without accelerated capital cost allowance, deductible travel and other expenses, special withholding rules, limited liability, a 50% holiday on capital gains, forward and backward loss carrying provisions, dividend tax credits and CREATIVE accounting, not to mention municipal tax breaks and another fifty crooked dodges that aren't available to the average taxpayer and are state of the art to corporate crooks. So don’t get me started.

Put it to a vote any time. The people of the country know who’s getting the sweetheart deals and it’s not the average taxpayer.

The fact of the matter is you wouldn’t survive in a fair system.

Re : " On Demand"

Its simply a term to apply if the floodgates open.

Suffice it to say Vancouver and the GVRD are probably THE warmest places (or the best year round climate) in this huge country called Canada with 30 + million people. It tends to attract people.

As Monte says, and using his numbers,given the study...approx . 16 % of the homeless surveyed have stated their last permanent residency was OUTSIDE of BC.

How does this current situation and any added influx of homeless become ultimately resolved, based on the cuurent funding which appears to be borne by the BC Taxpayers.

This may then perpetuate and subsequently absolve the other Provinces, as well as the Feds , from dealing with their own homeless within their own jurisdiction, ....Solution?= the old one -way bus ticket to BC???

Remember, this SRO et al situation is a Provincially funded solution to what is effectively a "made- in- Vancouver " problem...it doesn't help the rest of us BC residents and our own similar problems in our own Towns and Cities..its too Vancouver-centric.

G West

I once heard a quote..."your first million dollars are made illegally", or something like that.

The tax loopholes available when you have the cash to take advantage of them make the upper income tax bracket percentage a joke. We essentially have a flat tax system already.

But that does not justifying putting $80 million dollars into social housing. That does not fix the problem of the tax unfairness. It only aggrevates things by increasing the size of government and making it likely that the government will steal from Peter to pay Paul.

Can you trust this statistic...

Quote:

When asked which municipality they considered their last permanent home, the majority of homeless individuals (75%) who responded to this question reported somewhere in the GVRD. Another 8% considered home a location elsewhere in BC, 15% reported their last permanent home was elsewhere in Canada, and 1% reported their last permanent home outside of Canada."

Response: Maybe the "last permanant home" in BC was a cardboard box in Surrey, right after they got here from Quebec...

This source is tainted. Read and think about how it is phrased. It is likely trying to justify expenditure on social housing by making it seem like the people who need housing are from bc. But they are probably not.

no complaints here .......

then again ...i won't be living in one of those old SH!THOLES !

this is a start...BUT ! we all know better solutions have to be found.

and to the ARCHITECTS of this plan...CONGRATS,you show your humanity .NOW LETS SEE THE MONEY TO KEEP THESE PROGRAMS COMPASSIONATE AND USEFUL TO THE HOMELESS.

When's the election?

Smart move by the Drunk. Something's still up with them -- the Basi/Virk leaks are suspiciously un-juicy thus far -- but kudos for a clever move.

So, what has the NDP said? Did they propose this? Can they show other innovative ideas for the oppressed masses?

...

Whatever you may think of the source, at least one has been provided... that's more than can be said of your claims.

'So, what has the NDP said?'

'So, what has the NDP said?' what do you expect those clowns to say, and who cares anyway? does even one of them come close to being worthy of leading this beautiful province? such a shame that we wasted 10 years with those fools.

223 - nil

Back at it I see El.

WHAT???????????????

What are you talking about Yammer?

http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

Maybe you should go and have a look. And that 6 part series is not based on 'leaks'

Spend a coupla hours there and you'll get the picture.

I think this is the NDP response, for what it's worth

James made the comments from Cranbrook where the NDP caucus is holding a series of meetings on issues like the economy and health care.

“Gordon Campbell can’t be trusted to deal with growing homelessness on our streets,” said James. “This new plan announced today doesn’t even come close to meeting the target set by the City of Vancouver and the Olympic Housing Roundtable to house people leading up to 2010 and beyond.”

James said that since Gordon Campbell took power, homelessness has more than doubled and tripled in many B.C. communities. Child poverty has gone up – it’s now the highest in Canada. And B.C. has the fastest growing gap between the rich and poor in Canada. In response, Gordon Campbell has announced a few small programs with lots of fanfare and no follow-through.

“City officials and Olympic planners have told Mr. Campbell that he needs to make a commitment to 3,200 new affordable housing units by 2010 to make a serious dent in the homelessness crisis,” said James. “But this plan announced today provides less than 300 new units. And if the Premier is as committed to these new units as he was to the 5,000 long-term care beds that he never built, we may not see them anyway.

“B.C. needs a sustained commitment to build more affordable housing and reduce homelessness,” said James. “The housing initiative I put forward late last year does just that: it invests new money to build the affordable housing we need, with achievable targets and a plan to follow through.

“Gordon Campbell’s plan is to put a band-aid on the homelessness crisis before 2010 and spend billions more on cost overruns at the Convention Centre, RAV line and Sea-to Sky Highway.”

Sounds pretty much on the money to me.

'“Gordon Campbell’s plan

'“Gordon Campbell’s plan is to put a band-aid on the homelessness crisis before 2010 and spend billions more on cost overruns at the Convention Centre, RAV line and Sea-to Sky Highway.”' and what's your plan carole who?

223 - nil

another own goal

Check out Raesides cartoon

Check out Raesides cartoon about VANOC and the big show where all the folks with money are supposed to come watch. They don't want to see poor people on the steets so some flea bag hotels will be a place to hide them. My God they have decided to take most of the words in the english language and ban others from using them. Freedom os speach isn't in BC anymore

I second the motion

What is YOUR plan Carol ?

I think you'd have to say this is it, at minimum

She clearly intends as well to address this:

Both of which questions you could and should have been able to answer for yourselves.

elliot, maestro, cappy,

elliot, maestro, cappy, iamc, flattax etal
With all these miscreants it sure saves a lot of wasted time, as I've said why read useless drivel I just pass they arn't worth the time and flattax is a real mental case.
cappy$$$ have you ever done an honest days real labour or is your wealth without work?
The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity; and worship without sacrifice: Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi

A few interesting

A few interesting sites
http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/

http://www.fact-index.com/p/po/politics_of_canada.html

http://www.bcoilslick.org/
http://www.corpwatch.org/
http://www.savethemales.ca/001102.html

James who?

Oh, it's Carole James, the leader of that other party. We're so lucky to have Carole running that shop. I'm sure she's a very decent person. Play politics Carole, keep it going. Just yap and critisize, don't really say anything, absolutely don't make ant suggestions, it's a good strategy.

It's too bad the lurching whackos and serial loosers that coalesce around that wretched freak-show known as the Downtown East Side take away money for services that really should be going to the struggling single mothers and those that are mentally unstable or suffering from severe shocks in their lives. If these self-styled streetpeople-tourists and collected bums continue to drain resources from those that really are in need, then one day soon we're going to demand some serious vetting of those sticking out their hands. We cannot be expected to provide a cosy crash-pad, along with some pocket cash, to every pathetic drunk and junkie that waddles into town. It's not good for them. It's not good for us. It's also a form of stealing from the truly needy.

Get my drift?

FTA, NAFTA and soon to come NAU

that's when the spike in homelessness began.

I'm old enough to have visited Boston in the 70's and was aghast at all the "bums". Hey now fast-forward to the new corporate canada and no longer would I be aghast.

Don;t freak out now, buty I would still move to the States in a heartbeat over staying here in Canuckistan. Sorry man that idiotic ruling on the pillow fight commercial has put me over the edge.

I want to live in country were being a citizen of that country means something;

I want to live in a country where checks and balances rule the roost and not noblesse oblige;

I want to live in a country were merit means something and not just who know determines who gets ahead;

I want to live in a country that doesn't promote a culture of corruption as evidenced in the latest rcmp scandal and the tories toadying to power rather than being open and transparent as promised;

I want to elect a senate to balance out the loons in the house;

I am canadian and I say it's all balls up here.

Having said all that, the NDP has it mostly right on what's going on, HOWEVER, wtf is wrong with you fools? - a good deed is a good deed. PERIOD.

Good on Gordo. Credit where credit is due folks. Credit where credit is due, even for the profit-at-all-costs government of Gordon Campbell.

Love everyone.

R/Man

I was the first person to post this on this thread:

It's a start. But it's also a long way from hand to mouth and the final verdict is a long way from being in.

Someone later asked what Carole James' response was and I hunted it up for them.

So what? She is the leader of the OPPOSITION. Is that so hard to understand?

In Campbell’s first term he showed what contempt he has for the concept – remember?

Aren't you being a little dyspeptic?

BC Dude

Quote:

The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity; and worship without sacrifice: Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi

BC Dude:

Do you drink you own piss like Gandi did too? As if the opinion of a half naked fakir is worth a damn (to paraphrade a real man: winston churchill).

doesn't really matter much

doesn't really matter much what carole who? and the socialist horde says anyway. they won't be holding power in this wonderful province again for a very very very long time, if ever. we can thank good old common sense for that.

BC Dude

get off the crack buddy - everyone else check out the savethemales.ca link - 100% pure unadultered insanity and stupidity - total wackjob, just nuts! In a bad way.

wharves go unnoticed

Personnally, I think they did this so that the sale of the government wharves to Kinder Morgan (Terasen Gas) of the infamous Carlyle Group for $40 million. Yet more of our resources and our transportation in the hands of Bush and his budies.

re: my above

Should read

I'm starting to feel really jaded.

Housing for the poor....

You know as I said, its a start but if its all they do its like...crying into the ocean. You feel better but the ocean doesn't even notice.
There are lots of low income singles and families of different make up that are teetoring on the edge of being homeless. Do something to help them before they fall.
As Maestro pointed out the homeless/ housing crisis is not limited to just Vancouver what's on the agenda for other hot spots?
As for Carol James she is quoted as saying that she tabled a plan last year... how do we know what it said or if this is part of it? A good idea is a good idea no matter who's mouth it comes out of. I'm hoping that the Libs have grown up enough to recognize this.

Carole James depresses me

Is it the media's fault? Is she saying amazingly inspiring, forward thinking, intelligent ideas that aren't getting reported? I don't see any charisma there at all.

I'm no fan of drunken premiers but, yikes.

In Layton the NDP finally has someone at the federal level who seems truly interested in getting power, like he thinks he really ought to be the PM. I don't get that vibe from CJ at all.

When was the last time

Any Canadian politician was 'amazingly inspiring'?

Maybe vibe isn't much of a criteria anyway yammer.

Not that I'm saying I'm a CJ fan....but, if inspiring is your benchmark..
Well, I mean really ...Campbell!

What's with that? At least James apparently has some standards other than ca$h.

Yo....BC Dude !

(Thats all).

PS How's the revolution going ?
I have some Peter Sellers movies to lend ya for inspiration.

G West

agoanother own goal

You spew your garbage here too frequently as is. Stop posting this garbage. That is all you do. Elliot makes a reasonable comment - you tell him he's wrong again, make some foolish reference to hockey, and end up looking like quite the fool yourself.

If you have some value to add - like Elliot does - you may not agree with it - but it is a perspective - please comment.

Don't waste your time and everybody else's with those comments.

THis is what Elliot posted

The information he asked for was in the material that El ignored.

If you think this:

is a positive contribution then I think you must be shooting pucks into Elliot's empty net too.

I engage Elliot whenever he posts something worth engaging - which, sadly isn't very often. I see you're returning to your own bad habits of calling people names and shovelling ad hominem garbage again though.

It's funny how, when you can't cope with real debate you revert to calling someone like me a 'fool'.

Time to grow up cappy.

That resolution didn't last long!

Wharves sale

Quote:

Personnally, I think they did this so that the sale of the government wharves to Kinder Morgan (Terasen Gas) of the infamous Carlyle Group for $40 million. Yet more of our resources and our transportation in the hands of Bush and his budies.

Response:

I would rather have the warves owned and managed by an American Company with whom we have more common geopolitical interest. Infrastructure investments are hot these days. Carlyle group probably overpaid, otherwise pattison would have been interested in it.

Think of the alternative...Another company is buying Wharves and docks around the world....Imagine Dubai World Ports buying Vancouver Wharves and run from the UAW?!?!? Wonder how long it would that that company to get infiltrated by Al Quada.

Give me Carlyle group any day.

The most valuable commodity: Leftie cartel

Like I said to an Ex Classmate, now a Lawyer, on investment, growth and potential .

The greatest world commodity is FEAR.

Formula: those that can C-R-E-A-T-E the most FEAR tend to end up with the most $$$ .

aka " The Sky is Falling Ltd. " by Leftie UNlimited .

Bro' G WEST...that's S-K-Y as in "Blue Sky"...the "Sky Above" et al ...(not " -sky as in " Leftie -sky ").

Otherwise:
Yes, "THEY (?) " are "ALL (?)" out to get " YOU ". Don't forget to check under the bed and behind the beer fridge.

Now buy a program and beer sales are cut off in the later stages of the game.

Ghost of Capitalism

The death of Communism is nothing compared to the pain and suffering that will happen before Capitalism takes it's last breath. While the topic of global warming/climate change dominates today, this is barely the tip of the iceberg. We have probably already sealed the tomb with our activities over the last 150 years. We've set upon a path of no turning back. I posted a short exerpt (corn story) from GNN about another theory of why the earth is warming, and it's a far bigger issue than just burning carbon. It's also beautiful in it's simplicity when you think of the earth in ecological and geophysical terms. We've altered the way the planet regulates systems like carbon and climate and we think that because nothing major happens over 20, 40, 50 years we haven't done anything wrong. Typical human arrogance and greed. There is now no doubt that the society built upon this consummer wheel is doomed. The global economy as we know it now is on the verge of collapse. It's too specialized, too fragile, too greedy, too dependant on oil, war, politics.... did I say greedy?

With no real end in sight to the population growth or it's addictions, the reasons for collapse should be all too apparent to those with any kind of inclination for rational thought. Any idea what those last few years, months and days of Capitalism might look like? Put yer helmets on....

The Usual Suspects

Of course the usual suspects are at large here but I will make a few comments.

Maestro, you are 100% correct. The real problem is the left does not select its causes carefully enough. G West makes some excellent points about fair taxation; I wholly agree with him, esecially in the area of "unearned income" where low income seniors are taxed liked crazy.

If you go to a left wing party convention it is kind of odd. I have been to a few. The union bosses hold the balance of power. In BC, the PPWC, the IWA and the mining unions have for years set party policy. Glen Clark severly pissed them off but they have Carole James as their lap dog. The BCTF is kind of a rabid animal that nobody really wants to ally with.

Anyway, as the lunch bucket brigade kicks the bucket, there are more and more loonie-toons showing up at conventions and passing anti-Isreal resolutions and not addressing global warming (so not to offend the auto unions, or what is left of them more accurrately) which should be the number one priorty but did not even make it on the agenda.

Harper, by the way, flummoxed me. Adding an exemption of $2000 per child really saves low income working families. He also raised the threshold and amount of the CCTB. In fact, you could pay a parent to stay home with their children for much less than building yet another gigantic socialist monster like the federal liberals wanted to create. Looks like we are headed that way and that is really good for families and nobody can care for kids like a parent can.

Also of great interest was Harper doing what I have been advocating forever, taxing large displacement vehicles. $4000 ain't chump change boys and girls and will directly affect jobs in the domestic auto industry. All the cars that qualify for the rebate are foreign scourced. You just got a grand off an Yaris or Aveo, one made in Japan the other in Korea. Good on you, Steve, you are the only politicial to do what is good for average families and not special interests. Dion is a good man but his English sucks. He needs to see Chretien for lessons in confidence when speaking Franglais.

As for the BC liberals buying up those hotels? Would anyone prefer that they would not? They have a full treasury and will throw some crumbs to the poor. However, they will continue to cater to middle class family voters as they have the biggest numbers and vote more often.

And me, you ask? I sold my business to my employees, who came up with a business plan so good the bank floated them. I still own shares (a minority amount) and consult for them. They are doing well and my new job is full time Dad. I love it!

Working Man:

Nice to hear from you.

Interesting change in your personal lifestyle...hope it all works out well.

Ol' Dad used to say exactly what you did...Employee ownership...put the money where the mouth is. Example : About the only viable Plywood plant left on the Lower Mainland is the Employee- Owned one...you buy into it...and secure a job,...and sell your share when you quit or retire . I think this same employee share value has risen 5 X's in the last 20 years, worth a tidy (5) figure sum now.

I'm reading the latest " Leftie Nutzi save the World LTD " IPO through some Fear(?) about plastic shopping bags and banning them...oops correction no , typical Leftie solution is (...drum roll...)TAX or attach a levy to them !!! That'll teach those nasty people who use this evil product of the devil.

If these so-called Left -of -center types have nothing better to do than micromanage(again) what most reasonable people would consider something of far less importance than other far more important issues in the Bigger Picture scheme of things......no wonder the Left is becoming the embodiment of "the Best of Monty Python", a self - perpetuating parody.

We re-use our plastic bags in a variety of ways. Very handy.

BTW some stats (U.S. EPA);

----It takes 4 X's the energy to make a paper bag than a plastic bag.

---It takes 91% less energy to recycle a pound of plastic than a pound of paper.

I just hope these FEAR Ltd. types don't create more addicts and converts to the shallow BS they often spew in their " FEAR Ltd." mode. The so called "POLLS" seem to indicate they are, but then again, POLLS are often pollinated with subjective BS and self -fullfilling prophecies.

Reason , rationale and pragmatism usually triumph... ideology, rhetoric and subjectivity are ultimately not sustainable nor environmentally friendly, often the exact opposite. Hopefully our leaders are able to discern between the two and not be unduly influenced by such .

Working Man

That is perhaps one of the most balanced musings I've seen yet. It was true, in almost every sense.

You have to realize, i'm true blue, yet this Conservative government has angered me. They have been impelementing left wing initiatives through right wing methods. For example, rather than creating massive programs, the Tories are simply attacking it differently - reducing the tax burden.

However, there is nothing these guys can do right, in the eyes of people like G West. I don't mind people questioning whether Harper has a hidden plan - I for one am hoping he does! - however, these guys are turning a blind eye to sound, socially respsonsible, socialistic policies..

Great work!

clubofrome

That’s funny. I don’t remember the end of communism as being that painful…..

How many times, Cappy, how many times?

How many times do you have to be reminded of this:

My very first post, and the first post on this thread.

DO you ever read anything?

As for employee ownership and workers having a stake in the shop, you might want to check some fine examples of that sort of industrial democracy from Europe.

I hope your sale works out working man. Just be careful you don't get caught in something that seems to be happening just now down in the US of A.

I think you need to look at the Cons green vehicle bonus a little more carefully - there are vehicles (some of them manufactured next door to Flaherty's riding) on the list that aren't Asian. Ones designed to use fuel than isn't even available in Canada as a matter of fact.

Soviet

nutter...ya think maybe clubofrome was referencing the loss of pensions, healthcare, employment to the large mass of ordinary and elderly people, veterans, etc. with the collapse of the Soviet Union? Ya think?

What brings these jimmy pattison bobblehead
cockroaches out of their dark places..its still light out isn`t it?

You see?

Capitalism is very sick. Unable to see beyond his own needs and believes that what's good for him is good for society. Brainwashed by the marketing of big corp/oil/mcburger and can no longer think for himself. Swallows and then regurgitates everything as seen on TV, or other MSM sources. The Cancer has spread to all the vital organs, the lungs (amazon) the circulation (oceans) and the respiratory system. (air) The doctor is recommending radiation treatment. Watch out for the mushroom clouds...

Why thank you BTC!

A true gentleman and scholar. (Very handsome too, I've heard...)

club of rome

Capitalism is thriving in ways we haven't seen since the Wild Wild West! In 300 years, the USA has never changed paths. With China and India joining the party, we're in good hands!

We can debate the merits, but one thing is for certain. Capitalism is alive and well.

We've got the trade unions on the ropes - ready to deliver the final knockout blow!!

Panzer!

ja,
Now ve havz zem on za ropes herr general

zeez trade unions vill not know vat hit dem ja!

next ve vill have za lefties ja

und zen.. za immigrants ja...za racially impure

Confused

Don't make the same mistake maestro did. Try Earth first. Or look up the meaning of ecologist. I'm not the person who sits here and defends social policy that I don't understand nor care about above what I believe is the key to life on this planet. The fact you can't recognize what Ed is talking about, or the fact that you ignore it and continue your self destructive behavior is very curious to me. Supposedly educated people who don't understand that without ecology there is no economy. That's why there is usually no point to debating with the likes of you and maestro, no foundation. Yes the body of earth is bearing much wealth in your terms, but as soon as the major organs fail, we're going to take a big step backwards. Taking with it most of our great accomplishments. It's not wrong or right, it just is. But what a waste of a species to ruin what could have been a good long thing... Jesus Christ, don't you like sex, food, the beach, sailing, flowers, art, music??? Don't you hope your clan those things in the future? Just what is it you're trying to prove? Our cultures will surely clash in the future, their will be a revolution. You should try and find some truth now because when it happens we all loose.

Club of Rome

Can we do better - yes! Will we do better, yes!

Boy, you have a cynical outlook. The world has many, many years before is self-destructs! Won't happen in our lifetime!!

Though you're right. One day, capitalism will evolve into Capitalism. Could be thousands of years before that happens!

Cappy

Got a couple of "little" things for you to worry about.

I'm busy now but I'll post the links later - you can just stew about it in the meantime.

Hey clubofrome

Please...show some decency ...go kissy kissy poo with Bob the Cat somewhere else, I am trying to eat my lunch and also avoid the " technicolor yawn ". Put an ad in a Dan McLeod rag and spare the rest of us.

Whew....

Well, that's good news! Here I thought we had about 40-60 years to doomsday! I will remind you though, that there are limits to growth, just like in the book. Adjust for new technology sure, and then revise the timeline but the message is still the same. There are limits to growth. So yes please, do better and do it quickly. Better still, educate you and yours about nature. The investment will grow and the returns will be staggering!

do better

good news indeed ..I`m looking forward to the 1000 year Reich ..ummm humm

kisses maestro..out to lunch or brown bagging it today?

Stalker boy...

I told you maestro that I've moved on. Quit stalking me and obey the restraining order. Can't you see I found someone else to debate with! Some one who understands the English language, punctuation and everything. Capitalism uses proper sentence structure and doesn't foam at the mouth or have fits of rage like you do. While we may not agree at least he is civilized. More important, it's still early, but I think he may even have a sense of humor. How refreshing! Now for the last time, beat it, punk.

Yes, but cappy...

They have been impelementing left wing initiatives through right wing methods

Sure they are. They are appealing to the great majority of Canadians, people who average jobs and earnings. There is no doubt who they were targeting in their budget and I applaud them for it. A typical family will see about $600 a year in reduced taxes, or $50 a pay for each wage earner. That is money that better in their pockets than in treasury. Remember that the average wage in BC is about $17 an hour and that is what most families, in the range of 80%, live on.

Closing the incomes trust scam was also not exactly a right wing thing to do but it was the right thing to do. All very leftie, actually.

Income splitting will really help seniors, who are nailed with unearned income tax which taxes interest at the hightest rate.

These seem to be wise and well thought out policies. Other polices like putting cops on judge selection panels are rather, ahem, questionable.

Anyway, Harper is a helluva a politician. I doubt that we'll have balanced budgets whith him at the helm for more than a couple of years.

Club n' Used Kitty - Litter aka Bob duh Cat

Club-sky : You are your own restraining order.

The blood flow from the cardiac muscle past the Adams Apple to the old Frontal Lobes must be trying to pass an internal picket line in the neck area . Hire some scab blood corpuscles before you can no longer think clearly, objectively and lucidly.... NOT !

Careful Cap...I think Club-sky is taking a shine to you. The little Wing - O tends to cyber -stalk, crap , then bail. Seems to think that if they invoke one that's not an invite .

PS Notice Bob Duh barking Cat didn't deny any of the previous comments. Did ya notice his Nutzi accent a few posts back?

quite obviously bob the cat

quite obviously bob the cat is the alias that gworst/alcbiades/?/?/? uses when he wants to do his neo-cons as brownshirts and nazis routine. it's the reason the lefty freaks liked coyote so much. when he couldn't make any sense he called everyone that disagreed with the commie propaganda a brownshirt. gworst is a little too over-the-top with this one though. great hypocrisy there, if a 'neo-con' made such references g would demand to have him banned from 'his' site. but he really is doing some good work here isn't he? can't wait for his book.

Kitty bar the door...

TYEE!! Can we not keep the vermin out of the chat room? Maybe time for a cat on the payroll...

Timing!

Wow. They say timing is everything! On that note I'm leaving! Play safe!

WM

I agree, which is why I don't like the job they've done so far. This is a left wing government. Alterior motives - I sure as heck hope so. This government has not, in any way, resembled the pro-business group we expected.

They've been tougher, so it seems, on crime. They've taken an international role, consistent with what we'd expect. They've focused their priorities on the items Conservatives believe the federal government should be responsible for.

We've seen signs. Though, how any "leftie" can criticize this government is beyond me. I agree with G, there may be an alterior motive at play here.

Campbell's first 4-5 years - those were true blue!!

Play Safe = Bye Bye Club-sky

Good :

Club-CENSOR -sky is gone:

Now back to our regular TYEE program.

( BTW: not to be confused with our IR-Regular Leftie programming .

And now a word from our sponsors...

224 - nil

thanks for the double

thanks for the double exposure gwest/alcibiades/bobthecat/?/?

Careful Elliot:

Careful Elliot:

He might re-post your last post and then you'll be up by a score of 225 to NIL.

PS: Mercy Rule kicks in pretty soon.
BTW Leftie rule = they will confiscate your points.

Here you go Capitalism

Over an extended period of nominal good times, capitalist economies begin to develop a financial architecture where there is a great quantity of entities that are, for lack of a better term, involved in ­a kind of speculative or Ponzi finance.

I've been trying to point this out to you for some time, as you know.

But now others are beginning to notice the same thing, as for example John Authers in the Financial Times.

You might also want to read up on another economist, now dead, by the name of Hyman Minsky.

The squeakers

Wow you tighty righty anal retentives can really get wound up..cackling and spluttering like a bunch of old geezers...

Hey...I don`t work..
I do exactly what I want to do when I want to do it...every day.

The convertibles warming up..a couple a babes are awaiting ..we`ll see you chumps around

it's more likely that you're

it's more likely that you're sitting in your mother's basement.

Hey Bob the ToMMcat

Convertible ?...Tricycle qualifies .

A " couple of babes" eh ?
Remember to bring the bicycle pump and duct tape if they spring an air leak.

Also bring something to prevent S.T.D..... like Leftie abstinence.
Save the " energy of the Left hand" for the revolution.

PS Don't be selfish , lend one to Club-sky, (or is one of them Club -sky?)

squeaky mousetro

Eat your little black heart out sphincter boy

I`m handsome
I`m travelled..all around the world
I understand women
I`m financially secure
I know wine
I know song
I`ve seen things I doubt you could even imagine..
I am propertied
I know my lineage
I know who I am and I`m hung like a Rhino
and you...having to grovel and grub for your sustenance. A boxcar bum has more class than you.

wow! what a moron!

wow! what a moron!

little sphincter boy

Mousters little sphincter boy Elliot commenting on Tyee..
hey little Elliot..down on your little knees..workin hard little guy?

Pea brain..

running joke

This site tolerates morons obviously Elliot
they`ve tolerated cretins such as yourself and maestro for how long now..disrupting decent threads with your tittering schoolboy
nonsense..A lot of good people don`t frequent here because of YOU and the other trolling
fools.
You wanna get nuts..lets get nuts!

Elliot

I want you sucker

And I`m gonna get you too.

gwest; my sincerest

gwest; my sincerest apologies for accusing you of being bob the cat. you may be unreasonable and deceitful, but you're nowhere near pathetic enough to be this disgusting pig.

Elliot disgusted

Maestro was smart enough not to take the bait bongo....

gonna getcha!..
I`m trollin` for Elliot

Tyee

Can we issue Bob the Cat a warning??

This guy is starting to creep me out.

Kitty Bob's resume'

Well, Clubofrome already talked about yer looks, and "it" wouldn't lie, right?

Travelled...OK supervised day passes.

Understand women ? (Yeah right NObody does...)
Also that doesn't necessarily imply you like em .

Financially secure? OK rights to certain dumpsters and a franchise territory to pick up empties for deposit $$$.

Wine? forget to spell it as whine.

Song? Raffi and Fred Penner collection?

Propertied? OK you run a fence-ing operation.

Lineage? Yeah, knowing it and being proud of it are two separate things.

Know who you are?..good... keep it to your self...what we already see is scary.

Rhino ? Leave that alone...it might get Clubofrome all excited.

Keep us ROTFLMAO Bobscat...yer a hoot, in or out of rehab.

PS How'd the date go....bike pump work ?

Meow-sky

Is this our justice system

Is this our justice system "bought and paid for" along with OUR once Proud National police force = Royal Canadian Mounted Police!
Now under investigation starting at the top.
I'd say make the RCMP whistle blower the head RCMP cop and clean out the garbage including how "Sergeant Debruyckere was the officer in charge of this stage of the investigation and its aftermath. Mentioning again the fact that the
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/ Para: #63
Sergeant is related to Mr. Kelly Reichert, the Executive Director of the B.C. Liberal Party – someone who sat on the B.C. Liberal Party Election Campaign Team with Finance Minister Collins and who was the acting Director of the B.C. Liberal Election Team at the time (¶ 50 and 51) – is a good way to bring reader up to speed."
Cappy is this your idea of justice in your monied world of "Me first the hell with justice"

Here cappy/shareholders this

Here cappy/shareholders this is how you make your blood money http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20YxkM-CGI
You disgust me to no end INCO
http://www.thismagazine.ca/issues/2007/03/miningmisery.php
http://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/csq/csq-article.cfm?id=1939
Is there anyway we can take OUR shares out of these corrupt magets of the world?
Gordo and his idiot/cowardly cabal has done it again TRAITOR http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

What does Cappy have to say about this?

Teresen just sold to Fortis Utilities for 3.7 billion. Remember BC gas that sold to Teresen for 1.7 billion? And Teresen then sold to Morgan Kindle for 2.2 billion. And now this.

I wonder what the taxpayers of BC think of a government that flipped a profitable crown corp for 1.7 billion that sells 5 years later for 3.7 billion...

And who profited the most? Well, Morgan Kindle which is owned primarily by Goldman Sachs and Carlyle. Remember Carlyle? GWB senior's nest egg? Sure, Cappy would remember this bunch. He's a capitalist after all, or maybe he just can't find the time to watch the private corps that don't publicly file...

This whole thread.... the story itself...

insiders are caught by surprise!!!

Uh, last years budget alloted 80.5 mil for spending for the homeless and immediate social housing. This deal was in the works for at least nine months if not more. Took insiders by surprise? What a joke.

Man, everyone missed it. And they also missed Campbells last 5 years of gutted social housing cutbacks. So the fleabag hotels are bought up, for 80 mil... and now what. How are they going to hide the drug epidemic that has fuelled this problem to begin with?

Its going to take a hell of a lot more than social workers in six run down hotels to make this one fly. It'll take drug enforcement and that's federal as well as provincial folks. And the big question has to be asked. When will the drugs stop flowing in leaps and bounds like it has been in Vancouver? Just before the olympics? And then the tap gets turned on again?

Something is crooked and its not hard to point at this inept government for corruption. This campbell government reeks of it.

While we still can It's time

While we still can It's time to take back every human's right to demonstrate and Organize all branches that are for freedom and the basic rights that are being striped from us and we sit back and take this sh!
The treacherous corporations/politicos know that the people will wait till it's too late. Sad and shameful OUR kids will hate us for our complacency!
We have 36million people in Canada "Lets Roll" as the BS 9/11 story goes on the flight that supposedly crashed in Pennsylvania. 9/11 a way to start the NWO process.

wow! quite the feat to

wow! quite the feat to include so much nonsense in one small post. you're very special bc dude.

the brain

And you should have a closer look at Fortis too Lorne. These guys also opperate a little electricity company here in the ole BC province.

Called FortisBC, it's what used to be called, I think, Princeton Power and supplies customers in the Okanangan with ELECTRICITY. Now apparently the Competition Bureau didn't think there was anything wrong with that because on Mar 22 in St John's NFLD they announced that the Kinder to Fortis pass could go ahead even though it will give FORTIS a monopoly in the energy business in the Okanagan. Funny how that little 'competition' thing doesn't apply to your friends.

And friends are what Minister Neufeld and Stanley Marshall, president and CEO of Fortis are, I guess.

Anyway, they certainly didn't shy away from appearing together in the pictures that went with these stories from the website of the BC Energy Mines and Petroleum Resources Ministry in November of 2005:

November 29, 2005
THE ENERGY VISION FOR B.C. IS TO PROVIDE AFFORDABLE AND RELIABLE POWER IN AN ENVIRONMENTALLY SUSTAINABLE WAY WHILE CREATING EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE PROVINCE

OLIVER - FortisBC officially launched the new Vaseux Lake Substation in late November, 2005 to meet increased demand and provide reliability to customers in the Okanagan Valley and Kootenay-Boundary regions. Through the hiring of local contractors and businesses, the Oliver area received approximately $2 million dollars in economic benefits. Assisting in the opening ceremonies are (left to right): Bill Barisoff, MLA Penticton-Okanagan Valley; Richard Neufeld, Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources; John Walker, President and CEO, FortisBC Inc.; and Stanley Marshall, President and CEO of Fortis Inc.

Click here for full-size photo
The Vaseux Lake substation connects FortisBC’s transmission system in the Okanagan to BC Hydro’s 500 kilovolt circuit. High reliability and energy security will be maintained through investments such as this power project and an overall coordinated electricity plan.

(Left to right) Stanley Marshall, President and CEO, Fortis Inc.; Bill Barisoff, MLA Penticton-Okanagan Valley; Minister Richard Neufeld; Doug Little, VP Customer and Strategy Development, British Columbia Transmission Corporation (BCTC); Bruce Ripley, VP Engineering, BC Hydro; and John Walker, President and CEO, FortisBC Inc.

too bad I can't spell

That's 'operate' - sorry

It goes deeper than that, G West

Fortis is one of the few Canadian companies that could be financially backed for such a buyout. Its not so much Fortis and its CEO as it is, the banks that are heavily investing into the buyout of Terasen.

www.tsx.com

Type in FTS and look up the news announcements with Fortis. A quick clip:

How is it that Campbell and Emerson can sell off BC gas for 1.7 billion and it sells 4 years later for 3.7 billion with 3 out of Canada's 5 largest charters buying in?

This "asset" was sold cheap by Campbell costing the taxpayers of this province at least a billion plus in devaluation alone. As it is, Terasen walked away with 700 mil and Morgan Kindle walked away with 1.5 billion in profit with earnings offsetting the cost to buy. It is staggering that nothing is made mention of this in the papers.

Was there any big spending on infrastructure when Teresen owned it? Kindle? Nope. All developed natural gas delivery, and all of it heavily devalued when it was sold.

This is as close to scandalous as BC Rail and when it comes to $$$$, probably moreso. Did I mention that our now Honorable trade minister David Emerson got a big fat directorship and shares from Teresen for unloading BC gas to them?

Its called a bribe, folks. Emerson is as crooked a politician as it gets and guys like Capitalism will worship the man because he's rich... from majorly personally profiting from the sale of public funds.

Lots more

Lorne,

You haven’t noted that Fortis also took 2.3 Billion $ of debt off Terasen’s books as well.

And all they bought was the natural gas business – Morgan Kindle has retained the petroleum arm and the pipelines network – which of course is becoming part of the ‘integrated North American’ energy infrastructure. And they’ve also bought North Vancouver Wharves from what is left of BC Rail as well ( I don’t know the details but, when the dust settles I have a strong feeling that the North Vancouver Wharves won’t be in North Vancouver anymore – they’ll be on former ALR lands adjacent to Roberts Bank superport – maybe even a part of the big new Tsawwassen First Nations Treaty conjob.)

The involvement of CIBC World Markets is just another link to the same ole gang that gave the rest of BC Rail to CN while the Mounties had the tape recorder running.

The new energy monopoly in the Okanagan is just the icing on the cake. The President and CEO of this little company, Fortis, is also plugged in like a dirty shirt to Conservative politics in Newfoundland – even if he isn’t so popular in Belize where they’re building a dam and threatening native species as well as raising the price of electricity there by double digits.

Nice guys.

elliot So you got any better

elliot So you got any better ideas?
As I have lost all my respect for the justice system who allows the BC Rail scandal to drag on for three years+!
If the trial would have gone ahead all this dispicable grandtheft of OUR Public Corporations would not have happened as almost all the players in the BCRail who profited would have been in prison.

along with gordo, martin,

along with gordo, martin, etc
What ever happened to "For the People By the People"
Boughtout/sold out to big biz for what a desolate planet all these little players will be dropped too!
Greed has no friends

the brain

I could be wrong about moving the N Van bulk facilities to Delta but there is no doubt that the Gateway strategy includes a huge expansion of port facilities at Roberts Bank and it's clear to me that the Tsawwassen settlement may be planned to play a role in that - what ever it portends for the new Kinder Morgan deal...financial details of which I cannot find at the moment.

Interesting, G

You've made some interesting points in the sale that I hadn't looked at. I'm most definitely interested in the valuation of what assets Morgan Kindle kept as well.

Bottom line is the BC taxpayer got royally screwed by the Campbell government sale of BC gas AND BC rail combined and they have a right to know just how bad it really is.

And its bad. These numbers, along with the change of ownership of such a devalued crown for the sake of corrupt Liberal officials and dirty Republicans is mindblowing in the sense that its not only not being reported, its not being investigated as well.

To sell BC gas for a Teresen directorship is one thing... to sell it to them at such a cheap value is quite another. That's two kinds of crooked that's hard to watch and swallow, no matter how you look at it.

You are so right brain

There is no way on God's green earth that this, or the sale of BC Rail and way that sale went down, can be considered to be in the public interest.

This isn't just hard to swallow - it's something that the people of this province should not have to swallow.

If this kind of thing isn't on the front page of every paper in this province it's pretty obvious what's going on. You need to go to Sean Holman's Public EYE Online blog and follow the story there - especially the part that Sean got through his FOI request about Neufeld's big Texas adventure.

Neufeld is as compromised on these files as Cheney and Kenny-boy Lay were at the start of the Bush Administration.

My view.

I'll keep you in the loop.

I stand to correct myself, #'s were off

http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution.com/Articles/200606/20060614_BC_Gas_Carlyle.htm

Morgan Kindle buys Terasen for 5.6 billion. I found another website that stated Morgan Kindle bought Terasen for 7 billion. All in all, Terasen shareholders gained 700 mil on the balance sheet, adding to their market cap.

So while Morgan Kindle unloads their gas delivery to Fortis for 3.7 billion of which gas delivery is regulated anyways, (but then again, who knows with Campbell) Morgan Kindle kept the pipeline delivery which at this time, i can't find a valuation on. Found a couple interesting links:

http://www.confeederation.ca/election2006/ndp/apr-21/sale-of-terasen-gas-q-a

http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution.com/Articles/200606/20060614_BC_Gas_Carlyle.htm

The bottom line with the privatization of BC gas to Terasen is that it stinks. It stunk when BC gas was privatized and sold to Terasen, stunk when Terasen was bought by Morgan Kindle and it has never stopped stinking.

some more on the Vancouver Wharves deal

"Houston-based Kinder Morgan Energy Partners LP will pay $40 million and take on unspecified liabilities to purchase and operate Vancouver Wharves, a bulk marine terminal located on the North Shore at the entrance to the Port of Vancouver.

In a deal announced Tuesday, the current operator, British Columbia Railway Co. -- a Crown corporation owned by the province -- will maintain ownership over a 45-hectare parcel of land, while Kinder Morgan will operate the terminal, which includes an additional 11 hectares of land leased from the Vancouver Port Authority, under a 40-year lease. Kinder Morgan will also buy all the terminal assets including rail infrastructure, dry bulk and liquid storage, and material handling systems.

While the full value of the deal has not been disclosed, Kinder Morgan will make a lump sum payment of $40 million on closing, expected to occur before the end of June, and will assume certain liabilities, BCRC chief financial officer Michael Kaye said in an interview.

... The company owns more than 150 terminals in the U.S. and plans to expand the North Vancouver bulk terminal.

So the value of the transaction is actually quite significant," Kaye said.

The terminal, located on the North Shore of Burrard Inlet and recognized by its piles of yellow sulphur, has five deep-sea berths with wharf frontage of 955 metres and tracks for up to 400 railcars. It is one of two major sulphur export terminals in the Port of Vancouver, and is the primary facility capable of handling mineral concentrates such as copper, lead and zinc for the Canadian mining industry."

More when I find it.

oooooooohhh. that's some

oooooooohhh. that's some heavy-duty special investigating going on there. kinder morgan better watch out. gworst and nobrain are on the case!

224 - nil

oooooooohhh. that's some heavy-duty special investigating going on there. kinder morgan better watch out. gworst and nobrain are on the case!

So much for your suggestion El, still nothing of value and still incapable of being anything but trite and rude.

Its not easy, I tried.

I try to do what I can to glaze over idiot's, er, Elliots posts but they are so short... Why do I keep thinking of Elliot as an idiot? Sigmund maybe? Ell, Id, whatever the identity, its the same idiot, er, Elliot anyways.

Notice, G, that he's just beginning to break out with the odd paragraph, here and there... I really should be much nicer. Elliots probably just a little boy, say maybe 9 or 10? My apologies, Elliot, if you really do have the mind of a child. You'll get it in time. You'll grow.

:-)

Dang i must have missed the initiation

Gee when i signed up for the tyee login all I got asked was my username and email address.

Seems like a few of the others got asked to provide proof of senility, immaturity, ability to write ONLY 1 liners, penchant for backstabbing and backbiting, demonstrate lack of taste and ability on keep on topic, drag commenters into the gutter of personal attacks, waste a perfectly good article and the opportunity to effect real democratic conversation with the goal of iron sharpening iron and diluting it to a romp in mud flinging with swine hiding behind internet anonymity.

Please dont feed the animals.

elidiot because he is a

elidiot because he is a mental case will be one of KM's newest board members lol!
WE have been sold out by a very corrupt greedy few.
WE are 3.2 million people in BC we should all be able to bring a class action suite against these organized greedy corporate whoremongers!
All the provincial parties and Feds have sold out to the devil/el diublo/bushco.

Nothing is as it seems

Its funding to prevent a few from homelessness and I certain they are thankful for gov intervention no matter how humble that room maybe. Its the lack of funding for those who are on the brink of homeless which needs proper addressing and although it is a move in that direction I doubt the reasons given for motivating the funding. Many citizens who have lived in Vancouver since the get go will now have to go because they are unable to find accommodations they can ill afford. These are citizens elderly, disabled, youth, head injuries, single parents and children, etc who live on fixed incomes who now spend the majority of there resources on rent leaving many malnourished. For BC's low income kids this is very bad news as their little bodies will never fully recoup from the malnutrion forced upon them by ever increasing rental prices. Its those on the brink of homelessness and dispare in the hundreds of thousands and not just a few of Vancouver's addicts and mentaly challenged as we are led to believe who are in dire need of having their housing concerns addressed.

great input

great input morechatter!
"The only answer to organized money is organized people"
This is the reason why WE have poverty in BC, CANADA and the World = Exxon, Carlyle, Bilderberg, C Black's, D Chrysler laying off thousands and the CEO gets a bonus of $28,000,000.??
http://www.publiceyeonline.com/archives/002315.html

If...the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law: Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

"If the citizens neglect

"If the citizens neglect their Duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the Laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizen will be violated or disregarded.": Noah Webster - (1758-1843) American patriot and scholar, author of the 1806 edition of the dictionary that bears his name, the first dictionary of American English usage.

The things that will destroy

The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle;
pleasure without conscience;
wealth without work;
knowledge without character;
business without morality;
science without humanity;
and worship without sacrifice:
Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
Bye Bye

'BC we should all be able to

'BC we should all be able to bring a class action suite against these organized greedy corporate whoremongers!
All the provincial parties and Feds have sold out to the devil/el diublo/bushco.' blather on bc. you may want to throw in a few more lefty cliches next time though. yaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnn.

Great input el real bright,

Great input el real bright, not

Liberal and Olympic puffery spinbuying

Lets face it, the Government was basically forced into buying these SRO's. This purchase does not take people off the streets, nor do they accomodate those who have been recently tossed into the streets.

It just blows my mind and scars my heart and soul that years and years are passing by unnoticed as I reflect on what it would be like for me eperiencing just one night of not comfortably snoozing between my own sheets, much less in an alleyway off Hastings street. My heart sinks in dispair.

The olympic head cheeses were just in town and much to the embarassement of the city the olympdic flag was stolen right out from under thier pigheaded noses.

With such media grabbing attention brought to the forefront, there had to be a consolation to appear to appease the ever enraged public and olympic organizers. Our ever gracefull governments documented signed and sealed bid book states such a deep compassion for local human rights. The signatories and developers scoop up low priced fire sale propertys (whoops did I say that), which bode farewell to the DTES tenants. The documented lies of no forced or inconsequential evictions/displacements et al.

Its all smoke and mirrors, the fact remains there are thousands on the streets and about 1/3 of them have been tossed out since the glory of olympic sport for all was announced.

SHAME SHAME SHAME SHAME SHAME SHAME SHAME

"Wealth without

"Wealth without work"
Despicable crème dela crème no brainer selfish better than thou rich cappies with no compassion, just cold heartless androids stealing from the food baskets of the World. Shame
Billions for the war machines (Corporations) but still not satisfied.
I guess we'll have to bring B etrail Mulroney to get the 6 big canada banks to print more monopoly/loonies money.

Betrail = mulroney = nafta =

Betrail = mulroney = nafta = Traitor to all Canadians
gordo c = tilma = Traitor to all British Columbians and Canadians
ralphy k = tilma = Traitor to all Albertans and Canadians

On the fence

about this one. the population of vancouver and the fraser valley is growing out of control, with birth rates going up and people from other countries moving into canada and make their way to B.C. i personally believe canada needs to stop running to the aid of other people from other countries so they can escape poverty, come to canada and put money into the governments pockets while people who are NATIVE to this country and call this land home, canada seems to always push the problems of the people who are already here down more and forget about them. enough with the immigrants, yeah it sucks they live in a country that isnt as healthy and safe as canada, but thats none of our problems. if i had it my way, id turn them all away the minute they arrived on their boats looking for freedom. if you want freedom, then fight for it and stop coming to canada to make OUR problems worse.