- Ms Kaye is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Mary Carlisle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Prem Gill is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nancy Flight is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Justin Everett is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- John Westover is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nora Etches is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Edward Henderson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Bharadwaj Chandramouli is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Dean Chatterson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Marius Scurtescu is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Robert Parkes is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- James Murton is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Susan Doyle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Vincent Strgar is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Helen Spiegelman is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Subir Guin is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Kimball Finigan is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Joanne Manley is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- David Leach is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
The Truth about Stockbrokers
And why I don't have one anymore...
They want you to get and bet often.
There is a lot of legalized gambling going on in this country and all forms have one thing in common: someone who isn't in the game but runs it makes a piss pot full of money -- at the consumer's expense.
Let's compare the major stock markets to horse racing. The owner of the racetrack couldn't care less who wins because he gets his slice out of each bet no matter how the race turns out. If favourites win it might encourage others but the fact remains that the consumer always loses even when he wins, because the track owner and the government have taken their share up front. So it is with the stock salesman. He's the middleman who snaps up a fee whether you have won or lost.
And like the racetrack owner, your broker offers you incentives to play. The horseman offers you different ways to lose your money with quinellas, daily doubles, exactors, trifectas and so on. The broker offers common stock, bonds, mutual funds and so on to encourage you to make "bets."
Here's the rub -- even though he wears the best bespoke suits, $200 ties and silk underwear, the broker, like the horseman, or Lotto Canada for that matter, wants you to get and bet often.
It's helpful to track owners and brokers if their clients win often enough to keep coming back, but that's not because they like to see people win. The crucial part is that they play. The broker doesn't like the comparison with the horseman so he pretends to be part of the upper crust whereas in fact he's no better than that lottery ticket salesmen in the Third World flogging hope to the poor or the man who runs the numbers racket in the Bowery. (I should say "used to" because the racket has been taken over by the government whose payoffs make the salesman of numbers look like Santa Claus by comparison.)
Escape from the market
Let's start out with the mutual fund. The theory is that with mutual funds you participate in many companies running from the shaky to the sure thing. This minimizes your chance for losses. It also minimizes your chance for profits but the salesman is not big on telling you that! With many mutual funds you're behind the eight ball from the start as the broker grabs his take off the top. Having said that, there are mutual funds that have done well. But here's the question you might ask yourself: who do you think is paying for all those expensive and exotic trips fund management continually sends their brokers on?
Let's look at buying and selling stock. As mentioned, it matters little to the broker what your stock does as long as you keep playing and keep the commissions rolling in. Let me illustrate.
A couple of years ago Wendy and I, given our ages and what we wanted, instructed our broker to sell everything and put it in Treasury Bills. I was then, as I am even more now, scared stiff of the market for many reasons. The U.S. is the biggest debtor nation in the world where it once was the biggest creditor. Oil will, in my opinion, go sky high. Helmut Pastrick, the distinguished economist for B.C. credit unions, says that if it hits $100 all economic predictions are out the window. The Chinese economy -- like the Japanese economy of 20 years ago -- is, in spite of the glitz, based upon a foundation of quick sand. It's riding for a fall that will hit all of us -- hard.
But the main reason we wanted out of the market was to keep our capital secure.
Our broker, much against his will, sold, all the time bleating that we were making a big mistake because "in the long run etc., etc." I simply could not make him understand that I don't have a long run and that I needed my capital safely tucked away.
They suck you back in
After we had sold out our broker got heat from his superiors. "How come all that money is lying there when it could be out making commissions?" The pressure was on and we started to get phone calls. This was a "bull" market and he would put us only into the very safest investments. Next thing we knew, little by little we were back in and feeling very stupid for abandoning our own instincts and listening to the securities tout. Well, we were hardly back in when the type of stock we were in went into the toilet and we lost what for us was a lot of money. So convinced were we that this was a good time to stand on the sidelines and watch that we sold out again and stayed out.
This is not a "poor Rafe and Wendy" story because we were the ones who gave in to the pressure when we should have known better. What this is, is a statement of fact. Brokers make money out of an active portfolio and all else is of secondary importance.
(By way of aside, let me tell you what happens if you complain. The company uses its own in-house lawyer who talks to everyone, then, surprise! surprise! finds the broker and the company absolutely innocent!)
Let's suppose your broker tells you to buy a stock that his company is very high on. Does he say this is because independent researchers have investigated the stock? Not likely. What is more likely is that the brokerage house has underwritten the stock -- meaning that they have paid the company for stock, kept a bundle for themselves and wants the stock to go up so they can cash in. In short, they want to move the risk from themselves to you and make a bundle in the process. Who better to raise the cash from but their clients? The concept of "conflict of interest" is unknown in the stocks and bonds business. Moreover, stocks salesmen simply do not understand that for some people -- Wendy and me for example -- preservation of capital is far more important than making money.
Nudge, wink
Let's look for a moment at "insider trading." The case most know about is the call made by Herb Doman to Russell Bennett that Louisiana Pacific was not going to buy Doman Industries so Bennett should dump his Doman shares before the news became public. Bad business. No one can condone it. But it's child's play compared to what happens every day in the big kids' stock market.
First there are share options given to CEOs and directors. The game is that they can, over a period of time, buy shares at the current price so that if the shares rise in value, they can flog them and make a bundle. Now think of that for a moment. Is any CEO or director going to call his options and sell them unless he knows that it's a good business move? And isn't it obvious that the only way he knows this is insider information?
There is a common scam by which President Bush, amongst others, made a killing. Like most stock scams, it's simplicity itself. You take a company -- making widgets -- which you control and whose stock is trading, let's say, at a dollar. You and your fellow executives issue yourselves a bundle of options to buy company stock at a dollar. You then find another company that you control to offer to buy a million widgets. You make this wonderful news available to the public who drive the stock up to $10, you call your options and sell them for a nine dollar profit per share. There's one more thing, of course. You must announce, alas and alack, that the company that was to have bought the widgets quite suddenly went bankrupt.
Sharks and minnows
Prosecutions for breach of insider information rules are rare and non-existent with the big boys and girls. This is what's so unfair. On the old Vancouver Stock Exchange, stock hucksters were held in contempt and even sometimes charged. From my own unhappy experience I can tell you that most players in those stocks are gamblers. They know the game and don't care if a company is honest as long as its story runs the stock up so they can make money. In the words of W.C. Fields, you cannot cheat an honest man. The VSE was the crap game where "investors" understood the rules, or lack of them. But the public has been led to believe that the Toronto Stock Exchange, the New York Stock Exchange and other major players are run by pillars of honesty and moral rectitude. In fact they are big time pickpockets.
Finally, let's blow to smithereens the notion that brokers are extremely well educated and spend most of their waking moments analyzing the companies whose shares they flog. If they know their stocks so well, why don't they ever advise their clients to sell short? (Selling short means you sell what you believe to be overpriced stock you don't own, buy it after it goes down and pocket the difference.) They don't do this because the stock market is supposed to be a jolly place where ne'er shall be heard a discouraging word of pessimism. Nortel is a good example. Everyone knew after it went down the tube that it was overpriced, yet brokers kept getting clients to buy all the way down. But the bad things about Nortel were just as easy to see before it crashed, when it was the darling of the TSE, as they were with hindsight.
The central point is this. To the broker, be he Slippery Sam the flogger of Consolidated Moose Turds or the man in the three-piece suit in the exclusive club talking up a "blue chip" stock, the name of the game is transactions for which they are paid commissions and make profits on stocks they themselves own. The guiding axioms are these: you don't have to be mad to be in the stock market -- but it helps. And always remember, to the broker it isn't so much what the dice read. For him it's how many rolls you throw.
Rafe Mair writes a Monday column for The Tyee. His website is www.rafeonline.com. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Who Mowed Down the Premier?
- Canada's Economy, Deconstructed (by a 12 year-old)
- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Death In Remand: 'A Gut Feeling'
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Alberta Fills Pipes with Corrosive Denial
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- How Our Immune Systems Exaggerate Fear
- BC biotech company seeks approval for GM apple
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- 'Storage Wars'
- Seven Goals to Build the Conservative 'Dream'
- How Our Immune Systems Exaggerate Fear
- Does Simon Fraser University Need a Men's Centre?
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Why Blackberry's Embrace of HTML5 Is Good Karma
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- Death in Remand: A Jail Crammed with Risk
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
57
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gasworks
5 years ago
Comments on "The Truth about Stockbrokers"
Gordon's best friend "Slippery Sam" - A.K.A. Peter Brown.
His Premier turds are so grandiose he was awarded the Order of British Columbia.
Cynic
5 years ago
Thanks for this, Rafe. I had a business in financial services once. The more I studied and learned, the more appalled I became until finally I decided I couldn't continue in good conscience. I sent my former clients a letter outlining my concerns and left the business.
The stock market is badly corrupt. Every stock has its handlers and it is basically a method of wealth transfer from the many to the few. Buying a stock is not "investment", it's straight gambling, unless you're in the know and then it's called speculation.
Now Rafe, how about some journalism on the most corrupt financial scam of all: banking?
Grumpy
5 years ago
Right on Rafe. The billions of $$$$ stolen in the stock market is massive, yet no police or no investigation, because it is the stock market and the stock market is the heart of the free enterprise system so coveted by the population.
The grifters that sell stck to the poor yobs, are no better than used car salesman, yet they have politicians in their pockets!
Now, with so many pension plans involved with the stckmarket, all levels of government must keep it going or it's doomsday.
It's just a giant Bre-X scandal!
Working Man
5 years ago
The "Stock Market" is only a vehicle to swipe the savings of the working class every fifteen yeras ago. Blue chip companies do not raise money on the market anyway, they have their friendly banker for that.
Even worse, and very similar in my opinion are real estate agents. On the weekend I saw their talking head spinning a rosy picture of how "robust" the market is, while in the same breath stating there have been big drops in sales of all dwellings, entry level condos in particular. Vancouver is becoming a sea of "for sale" and "reduced." Without new players the expansion cannot continue. I work in construction and I would say the majority of the condo units I build are bought by middle class investors leveraging the living daylights out of their principle dwelling. Then they cannot rent the unit out at even break even. Canadians won't live in 500 sq ft boxes so most are rented to ESL students seasonally.
From someone who has been in the construction business for a long time: If you have a house you've been in for 30 years, sell it now. If are renting, don't buy.
Of course, a real estate agents isn't going to tell you that.
James Burns
5 years ago
I recall when I was in university a stock broker I met at a party who had gotten drunk said the only mistake he ever made was believing his own bullsh*t and actually buying some of the stock he was flogging himself. He lost all the money he put into it. He said that experience more than anything made him realize to stick to buying and selling using other people's money, because he always got his commission.
Yes, the stock market is a huge gamble, but the true theft taking place in the world economy is the transfer mis-pricing that takes place between multinational corporations, particularly over the resources coming out of third world economies (although it happens in Canada too). The process is simple. A given resource, say Russian oil, is sold at a cheaper than market rate to an American oil company. The difference between the market rate price and the price paid is deposited in a secret numbered offshore bank account in a tax haven like the Cayman Islands for the company chiefs. That money is then used by the company chiefs to buy up Russian assets and resources. That's how the oligarchs came about.
In his book "Capitalism's Achilles Heel" Raymond Baker of the Brookings Institute conservatively estimates approximately $500 billion per year is stolen from third world economies through transfer mis-pricing. The majority of that money is deposited in western financial institutions, and is in turn used by them to make more money. What's more our own multinational corporations routinely use transfer mis-pricing between their business units in different countries and in dummy corporations setup in tax havens to avoid tax (what little they currently have to pay) and to pay their top executives so they too can avoid tax.
Grumpy
5 years ago
Welcome to the free enterprise, capitalism freedom of the Western world. Only the elites will make money; only the elites control the money.
Get rich quick > buy into the stock market. Gambling anf the stock market are the big two revenue gerators in BC, promoted by 'slick willies' and radio 'carpet baggers' shamelessly promote this corporate robbery.
What makes me sick that on Rafe's former Brand-X radio station, one of radio's greatest hucksters, "come to my meeting and win a gold bar!", the Premier's brother constantly denounces corrupt politicians and political partys, but not his brother or the BC Liberals!
Why theis man is allowed to do this and why CORUS is allowed to broadcast this is a scandal.
If he equally denounced the BC Liberals, then OK. Look at RAV, one of the greatest ponsie schemes in BC, where a metro costing the taxpayerover 30+ years over $6 billion, instead of much cheaper LRT, the premier's brother constantly shilled for this project and denounced as naysayers or worse untill the BC Liberals forced their pet project through.
He did not, like the morning guy, allow the truth to be broadcast! This is free emterprise at it's best! This is how the stock market works!
maestro
5 years ago
Working Man:
Thanks for all the ever - practical real -life war stories.
However, it should also be noted it always takes TWO to Tango.
As one article I read on investing quoted a stockbroker as saying they tap into the larceny streak in many of us. Aka its not just the stockbrokers fault when things tank....ie any evidence of coercion ??? Life is = Caveat Emptor.
Also another bit of wisdom is another classic observation....the BMW's and the Merecedes etc. stuck in 10 minute line - ups at gas stations when gas price drops 2 cents a liter....yet these same people in bidding wars for houses, condos etc. People will nickle and dime on the little things but do a 180 degree entry into bidding wars when it comes to expensive things . Makes NO sense...
Regardless, accept these things as a given...we are really not that much diiferent from each other. However the wise will learn from others mistakes...and not get burned themselves.
However, I did know an honest stockbroker...spouses' ex co-worker...who advised me on an inquiry that when the stock "X" was being sold to the General Public... the real money had already been made by the insiders as Rafe stated. The listed company is now LONG gone.
gasworks
5 years ago
How refreshing Maestro, Yes! Greed is Universal.
(By the way this is an excellent time to short Tim Horton Stock).
Frank
5 years ago
If we didn't have stock markets we'd have a bunch of people allergic to work running scams on the street and trying to stay one step ahead of the police. At least the stock market keeps our incarceration costs down and keeps these people from having a record. Its just too bad its connected to the real economy.
maestro
5 years ago
Frank:
GOOOOOOD ONE!
I might add to that by advising one to carry a can of Tremclad spray paint when robbing a 7 -11...paint your collar white ...do less time in Club Fed.
BC Dude
5 years ago
P Martin's Canadian Steamship Lines is registered off shore, Why?
He pays no taxes to Canada yet uses Canada's great reputation for personal GREED!
Our BC Hydro now Terasan will be given to Kinder Morgan on October 14th 2006.
We should all be out on the front lawn of OUR Corrupt ( BC Rail basi, verk prelim is on Sept 18, 06 & case set for Dec 04, 06,
Three yrs after the crimes against BC (voters) RCMP raid on Legislature Buildings?
Why has Gordo cancelled the fall Legislative Sitting?
Scared of the opposition’s questions, you think.
So many unanswered Questions, we have thugs running this BC Fiberal Gang & Fed Fiberals grand theft Cretchen, Martin!
2010 Winter Olympics $1,000,000,000.00+ over run already and still 3+ yrs to go?
Who's going to pay for this BS travesty?
Us, our children, our grandchildren maybe even our great grandchildren!
Montreal's 78 Olympics the tax payers finally paid that off recently
Frank
5 years ago
As for realtors, isn't their existence sorta coming to an end? At least the need for so many? With websites like PropertysGuys who really needs a realtor taking $20,000 to sell your house?
guanolad
5 years ago
For those interested in a more academic take on Rafe's main themes, there is a great piece by Robin Blackburn from the a recent issue of New Left Review:
http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2616
And Doug Henwood's excellent book "Wall Street" is now available for free as a PDF file:
http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/WSDownload.html
gasworks
5 years ago
BC Dude predicts - "Our BC Hydro now Terasan will be given to Kinder Morgan on October 14th 2006."
Why October 14, 2006 BC Dude?
Brex
5 years ago
Sure sounds like a "poor Rafe and Wendy" story to me. Rafe loses some money in the market then delivers a rant on how evil and crooked the market is. He should suck it up and take full responsibility for his own decisions. He's a big boy. He knew all about the market before he put his money in. He has probably made more in the market than he lost.
maestro
5 years ago
We all learn from our own and others mistakes...Best learned when the least painful.
Some learn from the above and then (i) waer the dark hat , choose the dark side and rip off others with the same tricks ...or (ii)instead wear the white hat and warn others after themselves having been burned or screwed themselves.
Problem is, too many think they are special..or smarter.... and can buck the odds.
The stock market is no different than Las Vegas...you only hear about the winners...but who do you think actually pays for those fancy hotels???...all the vast majority of losers !
Watch the TV shows where Expert homo sapien "human" Stock Broker competes with the Monkey picking stocks.
Seems the Monkey is on par with the Broker or even does better.
End of today's lesson.
gasworks
5 years ago
Oops! Maestro - sounds like your off on a tangent.
Brex - the only money "poor Rafe" ever lost was on his ex-wife, and of course more recently, Madam X.
maestro
5 years ago
No...not at all intended to be a tangent.
Perhaps more like a pre-emptive comment.
One's interpreted " complaint " is anothers interpreted "free million dollar lesson" ... and that the stock market is both a fascinating beast....but really not all that complicated It continually lures in new victims...yet its the same old - same old story distilled down time after time.
Ah well.....
H.G
5 years ago
I trade options,but not for other people.I lost a lot of money through a broker so have learnt how to do it muself.Raif is right NOW would be a very,very good time for everybody to get right out of the long side of the stock market,particularly mutual funds and GIC's.The WORLD DEBT,particularly that of the US cannot be sustained.I'm afraid that it's time to pay the piper.Keep your money in Canada savings bonds or under the bed[banks are going to default]
Deflation,big time, is just around the corner,so cash will be king.
Colin
5 years ago
I worked in the mining industry in the 80’s, it certainly did not create a positive impression of stock brokers, in fact the boss of the company was finally kicked off the VSE and the accountant was last doing drywall as he lost his license. (There is some justice in the world) I also had a stockbroker ask me to set up an account in my name so he could run stocks through it and would give me a percentage, I declined.
The sad thing is that a lot of decent companies that had good ideas or good properties could not compete for the limited amount of capital against the companies run by slick and flashy types. I personally believe the way the VSE was run cost our economy a great deal of money and jobs.
It will always be tough to make a stock market work properly, human beings are always capable of circumventing the rules. I think a well run market, can give upcoming companies and inventions the capital they need to get going or move up to the next step. But the companies and the investor need to see that the health of the company and it’s role in society is more important than a fast profit. Many of the companies fell for the hype and where sacrificed for a quick profit, rather than for long term profitability.
clikon
5 years ago
Thankyou for sharing that rafe - I have for a long time held these views also. The biggest financial rip in history is right here at home in Canada where our trusted servants in Ottawa 'pen-stroke' transferred our entire pensions portfolio to corporate operators for 'safe-keeping' - irony is that the Yanks must have noticed because ol bushy just quietly did the same thing with the federal reserve. Rafe - am I the only one that noticed? - or - am I misinformed? Very much appreciate your thoughts on this - yup - I am a pensioner.
gasworks
5 years ago
Colin - then you must be familiar with Peter "The Rabbit" Brown, Pezim's old friend and business partner, and right hand straight-man to guess who.
Who could ever forget Teramar Resources when Ex-Hydro boss??? cracked Champagne bottles on the VSE floor.
Anybody remember his name, he's dead now. I heard he ended up penniless....
rafe
5 years ago
1. it does take two to tango that's why I quoted WC Fields "you can't chat an honest man".
2. I held no stock in Bre ex although taking my ventures in the VSE as a whole, I might just as well have.
#3 I would be fascinated to know who Madame "X" is - Wendy and I fell in Love and have been together in fidelity ever since
gasworks
5 years ago
According to you Rafe, Madam X is/was "The Most Dangerous Woman in British Columbia.
I would never call you an infidel Rafe, but I doubt you can Tango.
ursus
5 years ago
Was gordo's little brother taken to court by a elderly lady over an investment? Realtors and their prey are in for some hard times if you believe what the media and investment guru's are saying south of the border.
bpither1
5 years ago
No Rafe. Your mistake was the kind of investment you were lured into by the unscrupulous. This was a lesson I learned when I parked money in TD. I ALLOWED myself to buy into a bond (ATT Canada) just before it went belly up. TD was holding a lot of their debt and their broker encouraged me to buy - HE was getting a trailer fee and probably a fat commission for selling me their crap. And may I add that TD was recently fined (under 500,000, a pittance) by the Ontario Securities Commission for their irregular handling of a client. Probably screwed the way I was. I got out of TD Waterhouse and now I OWN their stock and other banking stock which is blue chip and pays dividends every year. That's how you get even. I moved everything over to Phillips Hager and North which was the best move I ever made. They do not churn like the banks and I pay .92% in fees. Now the banks (and VISA) pay me - in dividends and by keeping my credit card (fee free) use WITHIN my means, paid off in full every month,and 1% cash back every year. I'm sorry for Rafe - I know a lot of people, including myself, who have been sucker punched in the past. But you should keep some money in stock but not the flavour of the month kind - like oil and commodities - but good quality stock with little debt and excellent cash flow coupled with a long history of rising dividends. You buy some Canadian stock, some US, some overseas in Europe, Asia and Latin America. Then you put some in fixed income - like a good bond fund, some in real estate, some in cash. Keep diversified AND do your homework. Rafe, at this point in his life, should have most money in a fixed income security and LITTLE in stock. I just think he mismanaged his portfolio. Over the past 20 years I have made an average of 11% per annum by MIXING up my portfolio and keeping a steady conservative course through fair and foul equity markets. I have not made as much money in the past 18 months as my friends who are in oil and other commodities since these are cyclical...everyone forgets that oil was 10 bucks a barrel in 1998. And in 1979, when oil went to 42 bucks everyone was saying the same thing as today - "it will go up to 100". Bullshit!
Grumpy
5 years ago
All the people i know, who made money in the stock market had inside information and they are all good Liberals!
Buy art, at least you can look at it! And in a few years hence some other fool may pay more to own it!
I do think our ecconomy is on the brink of a major correction, but cash will be king? I doubt it, remeber 1920's Germany and major unchecked inflation? Cash could be worthless!
maestro
5 years ago
Gasworks:
Madam "X" revealed aka " The Most Dangerous Woman in BC" is______________.
Do you mean ...???. oh no....!!!! I can't believe it !!! ....the head of the BCTF ???
She gets the signing bonus...now where to invest it???. Private surgical clinics ??? her nose was growing too many times...
Hmmm.
Next guess is ???
gasworks
5 years ago
Co-tangent Maestro?
werdnagreb
5 years ago
Oh come on...it's all about risk management and your faith in the stock market and the government that manages it.
You can call individual brokers corrupt, inept, or lazy, but the truth is that many people who do invest wisely, make out well.
If you believe that the Canadian government (or the US government) is going to collapse financially in the next short time, then losing a few thousand in the stock market is going to be the least of our worries.
So, investing wisely (ie- spreading out your risk and doing a little bit of your own research) is not like gambling. If you believe that your government is going to collapse---don't do it. If you believe that we've got some more years left in our government---invest,but by all means, invest wisely.
RickW
5 years ago
I bought a retirement package from Confederation Life when I was 24, and paid into it for damn near as long.
http://www.confederationlife.com/
Working Man
5 years ago
Wow, the Montreal Olympics were 1978? Whatever yer smokin' it seems to be workin'.
Alcibiades
5 years ago
Watch who you listen to working man. The Montreal Olympics were held in the summer of 1976.
alive
5 years ago
Realtors work both ends!
In fact they spend about 80% of their time bothering you soliciting listings.
Often the listing they obtain that way are from people who only want to sell if they can get more than the place is worth-------in essense useless listings!
Now, there is no reason why anyone who needs to sell real estate could not contact a firm, and get the place officially appraised, maybe for a modest fee?
THEN, let the vultures see who can sell it?
If they only sell, they only collect half of the "usual" commission!
And yes there are far too many salesmen around.
Many seem to think it is good to have an occupation, where they can go to an office and sit around and feel important.
You would be surprised how many actually live on an old army pension or on the wifes salary.
RickW
5 years ago
This is the secret of successful real estate brokers. Get the "little people" to do the legwork, and collect 1/2 the commission, simply because you got the listing. The snake oil saleman I was acquainted with in a previous life was quite open about how Ms. Minnie housewife, who only wanted to make a few dollars, did most of the selling job, and the money just rolled into his bank account......
maestro
5 years ago
Gasworks:
Well...BCTF head made investment claims with societies' shareholders, equating 16 % more filthy lucre for her "education brokers" would concurrently benefit our own personal investment aka our children .
Ah well...we'll see the first report card ,hopefully a projected return of 16% better grades.
Re: Realtors: One thing to also keep in mind is that professionals are often required to carry Liability Insurance, such as " Errors and Ommissions".
In addition their professional organizations often likewise have funds to cover legal issues/liabilities relating to their own members professional conduct.
If one tries to engage in private DIY (Do-It-Yourself) purchases/sales, etc...one could be left SOL.
One can always negotiate fees,ie 1% commission Co. do exist.
Regardless, its all a game, realtors or stockbrokers , thus simply educate oneself on the rules. Knowledge is power,ignorance is a vulnerability often exploited.
Many of these collapses seem to be quasi- Ponzi schemes, that is a tried and true formula to separate you from your money but all due to the individuals' larceny streak trumping common sense.
Woe is me the 1st time ......vs shame on me any subsequent time.
Like Rafe said " You can't cheat an honest man."
H.G
5 years ago
GRUMPY,you are right about Germany in the 1920's,but that was inflation.I was talking about deflation and contrary to popular belief interest rates can also go up,because lenders won't want to lend and borrowers won't want to borrow unless they absolutely have to and there will be lots of them.Collectables will be worth 10c on the dollar.
I don't think that governments will fail although some may,but parties may change probably to a more left wing idiology.
Provinces,states and municipalities in the main will fail financially,they are also holding too much debt.California is a good example,where they have already started to have problems paying employees and thier housing market is also showing signs of collapse as it is all over the US,Canada and Europe.Banks will fail mostly because of lenging far more money than they have,especially with criative mortgages and credit cards.Just as a matter of interest there are more credit cards now in the UK than there are people.Also personal bunkruptcy in the UK,US and here in Canada together with personal debt are at all time highs.
I think that the 1930's may have been a better time to be in than what may be coming down the pipe for us.
denial
5 years ago
Grumpy:
please explain to me why bad stockbrokers ( grifters ) are as bad as used car salesmen. Why are used car saleman automatically considered unethical? We sell a product like thousands of other saleman who sell various products. There are good used car salesman and cheating lying salesman but no different than honest/dishonest teachers, judges, letter carriers etc. It is people who have flaws not their profession.
Colin
5 years ago
Gasworks
I remember the names, but never met them
There was one that was murdered/executed in West van, he also owned the boats tied up a Mitchell Island and I think was involved in drug running.
I place realtors up a higher plane then brokers, at least they sell something physical you can kick and touch. I have seen some scummy ones and I have seen some excellent ones. My wife just started doing real estate law from the home, she decided against commercial law as you must maintain practice insurance for 7 years after the last transaction. Right now she is scrutinizing a 130 page agreement and trying to figure out how to explain to the client.
When you get a chance read the Standard mortgage agreement used here in BC, there are quite a few surprising clauses in it!
alive
5 years ago
denial:
used car salesmen have a bad rep, because of the hagling that goes on!
Other salesmen usually have a price on a product, if you want it, you buy it!
But when a person has to haggle price with a professional,he feels at a disadvantage, and resent whatever "deal" he manages to get.
So no matter how honest the salesman may be, the system is suspect!
We all know the routine where the salesman has to "go back to the boss" to present your offer.
Try treating customers as if they had a brain, and your esteem would skyrocket!
And one more tip: take the time to know some facts about what you are selling!
Colin
5 years ago
Oh yea, Used car salesman’s, what Stock Brokers do when they are out of work or booted from the exchange. Granted I have met a few decent ones.
One of my ex’s was a VP of a Lumber marketing board and I went with her to look at a used car in Richmond, they were trying to sell us a car that had been rebuilt but not tell us that it had been, the misaligned front bumper, doors were my first clue, the broken radiator and the swimming pool in the trunk confirmed it. The best part was watching her in a very loud and commanding voice in the crowded showroom, rip the salesman and his manger a new one. It was fun to watch these two pompous wankers cowering in fear of this rather feisty woman!!
They ended up selling her a much better car for a very good deal just to get rid of her.
My brother was in Indonesia when Bre-x hit the fan working on a Nickel deposit, everything mining related ground to a halt for several years. It was the turning point for the industry and they are much better than before that time.
Sacha
5 years ago
If you thought things were bad today, look at when 30 years ago you were forced to transact stocks through a stockbroker for ridiculously high commissions (usually around the range of $100 a trade or 3% of transaction value).
At least today you can bypass the middle man and trade direct.
There is no good reason to trust a stockbroker with your money UNLESS if his/her compensation is DIRECTLY linked to the performance of your portfolio. If the incentives for you and your broker are not aligned, you're likely better off throwing darts at the newspaper.
rikia
5 years ago
Also remember that "buy and hold" and "don't sell if the market starts to crash" are only directed towards the masses, so that people with serious money have a stable market in which to buy and sell.
Jay Currie
5 years ago
Fun as it is to bash brokers - stock and real estate - their days are numbered. The first wave of online stock trading with the so called day traders and other species of get rich quick folks was the systems check. Now you can pretty much do any trade without the intervention of a broker for next to nothing.
The bigger question of "should you?" depends on a lot of variables. And, most of all, it depends on whether you are willing to put the time in to do your own research and develop your own strategies and tactics.
(One note, brokers tend not to mention short selling because the risk profile is much to high for the average retail investor. But, for a disciplined approach to the buying...and most of all selling of stock you may want to investigate writing covered call options. You can usually achieve a decent ROR with relatively little risk and they force the sale of the stock which is something brokers tend not to do.)
BC Dude
5 years ago
Alcibiades: 15 Hours Ago Watch who you listen to working man. The Montreal Olympics were held in the summer of 1976
BC Dude says "Oh! not so sorry 76 Montreal still dosen't take away the scandal of Mayor Draposki & the 76 Olympics!"
You watch 2010 Winter Olympics go outta sight money wise and blamed on the party in power @ that time!
http://www.citizensforpublicpower.ca/newsroom/mt/
http://canadiandimension.com/articles/2005/09/25/101/
http://www.legis.gov.bc.ca/Hansard/37th5th/h40303p.htm
http://www.davidaskew.ca/?p=29
gasworks
5 years ago
Well Maestro, I've never been cheated in that way, however I gather because of his complaining Rafe has.
By the way Colin. it was Robert Bonner, and Peter the Rabbit, helped him drink it. The little guy in the trunk was a bit player and an idiot to boot, sadly, I actually knew him.
gasworks
5 years ago
Well Jay, thanks for the 101 lessons. However, most of these folks on this site don't even know who "Peter the Rabitt" is, - so I'm afraid it would be a long learning curve to turn them into heartless day traders.
I think it was Pezim who once said, "no one ever made a dime buying stock". (or was it "why buy? When you can sell).
BC Dude are you on drugs?
Alcibiades
5 years ago
BC Dude
NO problem, I agree completely. I will, however, take every opportunity to point out working man's errors - even if they are just re-posting someone else's.
No offence.
Google 350 was an excellent short sell; there will be others.
BC Dude
5 years ago
workinman, gasworks, Brex, always the "idiot rants" every blog on Tyee is infested with these same "dolts"!
Brain dead, with nothing intellegent to add to a great venue for opening the slimy side of politics, society, Stock market, etc!
Keep up the great work Rafe!
gasworks
5 years ago
Great write BC Dude, Too bad you don't know Rafe's "A" from a hole in the ground
BC Dude
5 years ago
gasworks U R like sourgas from oil wells, USELESS!
Always attacking & spewing unintellegent crap!
enough good energy on "idiots"
We need more great writers like Rafe & they are starting to come forward with the real truth, not the bull from CanWest monopoly on the msm!
Rafe have you checked out this site, as your reporting would be a welcome voice for BC?
http://www.iwtnews.com/home
gasworks
5 years ago
BC Dude as long as you've got your head up there mind-drilling for gas, would you spew a little energy and give out a good yell if you happen to find a real writer....
BC Dude
5 years ago
Here's something to ponder about stock market & shareholders!
Think about it, the national profits of a single corporate project would be enough to provide a hundred days of employment a year at minimum wages (calculated at a weighted average across different states) for 25 million people. That's five million more than the population of Australia. That is the scale of the horror of neo-liberalism.
The Bechtel story gets worse. In what can only be called unconscionable, Naomi Klein writes that Bechtel has successfully sued war-torn Iraq for war reparations and lost profits. It has been awarded 7 million dollars.
Bruce Cockburn
Lyrics:
Picture on magazine boardroom pop star
Pinstripe prophet of peckerhead greed
You say 'Trust me with the money -- the keys to the universe'
Trickle down will give us everything we need
Brand new century private penitentiary
bank vault utopia padded for the few
And it's tumours for the masses coughing for the masses
Earphones for the masses and they all serve you
Trickle down give /em the business
Trickle down supposed to give us the goods
Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty
Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood
What used to pass for education now looks more like ignoration
Take the people’s money and slip it to the corporation
Yellow rain golden shower pesticide firepower
Summon feudal demons of sweatshop subjugation
Workfare foul air homeless beggars everywhere
Picturephone aristocrats lounge around the pool
Captains of industry smiling beneficently
Leaking hole supertanker ship of fools
Trickle down give me the business
Trickle down supposed to give us the goods
Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty
Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood
Take over takedown big bucks shakedown
Schoolyard pusher offer anything-for-profit
First got to privatize then you get to piratize
Hooked on avarice- how do we get off it?
Trickle down give me the business
Trickle down supposed to give us the goods
Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty
Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood
Trickle down give me the business
Trickle down supposed to give us the goods
Cups held out to catch a bit of the bounty
Trickle down everywhere trickle down blood
Trickle down
http://cockburnproject.net/albums/youveneverseeneverything.html
Bobb999
5 years ago
The Internet has helped level the stock market playing field a great deal. I've been making my living trading stocks online over the last several years after my previous field began to dry up (at least my niche within it).
I mostly "swing trade" , where I typically hold stocks for weeks or months (but sometimes years). I use no broker's advice. I use discount brokers instead (getting cheaper all the time, thanks to pressure from a deregulated US brokerage industry next door) I subscribe to no advisory services. I make more money now than I ever did in the decades prior, when stocks were a sideline hobby.
It can take some trial and error to locate, but the net has excellent resources available for free. Just as the Tyee is a source of fine writing/research for free, there are many knowledgable online bloggers and others who give honest, useful information and insight into the markets.
When I want to research specific stocks to do my own stock picking, there are excellent free stock screen/filter tools and fundamental data at globeinvestor.com, yahoo.com, investor.reuters.com. Beyond the stats of fundamental analysis, I value technical analysis too which is concerned with chart reading.
Yes, there are unscrupulous co. insiders,
brokers, pundits, media. There is market manipulation by big players. Despite the negatives , the tools are available now for anyone who can spare some research time, to make more profitable trades than losing ones, and thus make money.
There's even an unscrupulous investments TV network best avoided, the US based CNBC ("Tout TV") whose allegiance is to their broker advertisers, not you! Canada's ROBTV is much more honest and useful (and makes their shows available online too at ROBTV.com). And they cover technical analysis often, which CNBC does not.
I'm here to say the stock market, these days, is not a trap for suckers. It is a trap for the uninformed or uninvolved. But it is a goldmine for those who have the interest and time to keep themselves educated, informed and involved.
Here are some of my other favourite sites
(all free) that I find useful: billcara.com , dvtechtalk.com , americanbulls.com , grandich.com , goldseek.com , stockchase.com , stockta.com , technicalindicators.com , safehaven.com , decisionpoint.com , financialsense.com , marketwatch.com , ino.com , stockcharts.com , paulvaneeden.com/commentary.php , incrediblecharts.com ,
bigcharts.com , stockhouse.ca
DIY (with free help) is the way to make money in the stock market, imo. It's not to everyone's temperment (the volatility
can at times take your breath away and try your patience severely), but I have come to view the stock market as an opportunity, not a trap.
rafe
5 years ago
Clearly there is a place for observant, savvy,DIYs. It was not those to whom I was referring rather the majority of people who have neither the time nor the savvy to DIY so use a broker
To BC Dude ... I have it and will check it out
gasworks
5 years ago
deleted for possible libel. Tyee Editor
gasworks
5 years ago
........... Ouch!