blah blah blah -

this goes for any political party - it is unreasonable to be 100% transparent. in my business, there are somethings which must be kept confidential. there is no wrongdoing, but it comprimises business arrangements and opens legal issues.

stanley tromp and the tyee should be ashamed of themselves for using this poor girl to score a political message.

shame on you tyee.

You know the government is doing a great job, when this is all the tyee can find to slam the Libs - over the past 6 months at that!

Great job Liberals - this truly affirms your accomplishments!

On the other hand, hopefully BC Liberals are not Merchant's of Death.

Capitalism, from yesterday's article on Bill 30. A quote from Liberal MLA Blair Lekstrom on Bill 30:

"We have a good FOIPP Act, and I think section 21 covered things well now. I don't see the need to change it. The government says that with this bill it can negotiate better terms with companies, but I'm not sure that's always so. The public has a general right to know how its money is being managed."

What is it that Lekstrom sees that your partisan blinders keep you from seeing? Does the public have a right to know how it's money is being managed? Would you support this bill if the NDP had introduced it?

It's funny how all the Nazi's come out of the woodwork, especially when freedoms are at risk. Secret governmnet = dictatorship!

The Liberal government in Victoria is very evil and historians in the future (if they are allowed to) will condemn Campbell & Co. for the charlatan he is.

God, some of the people in here astound me and are just like the Germans in the late 30's when the jew's and others were shipped off for extermination - hear no deportations, see no deportations, speak no deportations. if you want to see evil, look at yourselves!

The frightning aspect of all this reflects how corrupt this Campbell government is and how scared they are of the truth. What is scary, is how many people support them!

I agree, it sure is frightning when majority rules...

Does the word "dictatorship" mean anything here? This government appears to be heading in the direction of full control of the people. I thought the people were supposed to control the government.
I can't beleive that the population of this province would sit on their hands and allow this to happen. Better start writing our MLA's and flooding them with requests to end this unbeleivable orwellian attempt to silence the masses.
By the way Capitalism it may be unreasonable to be 100% transparent but to be 100% shielded is rediculous.

see previous post

Its kind of strange..the same people who complain and whine about THEIR money being spent on things they dont like, are now going to give the government Carte Blanche to spend as they like. They are also going to allow the government to keep their boo boos completely secret with no apparent accountability, and also the ability to rewrite history to their own liking....
Wild stuff. The Same people who have been screaming and whining about the CORRUPT Federal Libs, and THE CORRUPT BC NDP, now choose to give a hall pass to the conserves, simply because they beleive in.... monarchism?....Holy hannah mother murphy.
And Sherrie Charlie was a tragedy yes, however the report on her death may save many more. Using her picture is more than a "political message" its an example of what we stand to lose. Keep that in mind.

gasworks, you do not talk of democracy, you talk of dictatorship. An election, held every 3 to 4 years doesn't equal democracy. What happens when public attitude changes, contrary to the wishes of the majority government? The majority government rules the way they want too and to hell with the public, hoping that short political memories will save them at the next general election many months or years away.

We do not live in a democracy, but a benign dictatorship, where the all powerful parliment, supported by lapdog MLA's and a compliant media, slowly erode or rights to suit their politcal agenda's.

We are ever so slowly fallin into the grip of evil here and those who chime democracy, but know little of it, are nothing more than agents of evil.

Want real democracy, poportional representation; plebisites on major government spending; the ability of citizens to recall MLA's; the ability of citizens ti innitiate laws.

Until we have this here in BC, we live in no democracy!

Don't be so Grumpy Grumpy, we live in a state where majority rules and all the rhetoric in the world won't change that. You do know that you have the right to vote?

Quite a bit of the stuff I deal with requires public comment, although some of the comments are useless, much of it adds value to the process. I also see the good and the bad at both the federal and provincial level. I do not support any bill that protects governments from public scrutiny. This is just asking for abuse and sloppy administration. It also removes any accountability. Even in the business world you have checks and balances to ensure that things don’t go astray. This bill is bad for the government and bad for the public.

I saw concerns about this bill first posted on a Kayaking website, I intend to make my displeasure known to my MLA.

Now there is a good idea, and while you're at it ask him whether or not he personally supports the bill. (I'm sure he'll get the message and you will know who to vote for next time around.)

gasworks point, in comment 1 above here, is accurate. Saying that a minister (acting alone) could have a appointed a commission under the old act is incorrect. The words 'Lieutenant Governor in Council' and 'Cabinet' amount to the same thing. Ministers couldn't act on their own before - they still can't.

However, this simple error of Tromp's does nothing to blunt the impact of the rest of what he has to say. The BC Liberals clearly have things they'd rather the public did not always know.

One hopes the Opposition, as well as the occasional sitting Liberal who still possesses a functioning conscience and a memory of previous promises, will begin to fight for changes to these bills before they are passed into law.

Alcibiades, I dont think changes could be made to make them even marginally acceptable.
Scrap em.
If there needs to be new legislation, it needs to be constructed from scratch.....its far to easy to leave in fine print.

If it aint broke, don't fix it. There is absolutely no public interest need to introduce this legislation. Only a manufactured one. This government's mantra has always featured the words "clear and transparent". Yet now we will see more secrecy from them. Their reasons would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous. I applaud the Tyee for their ongoing committment to publishing real news. And you have to wonder how is that subscribers like "Gasworks" and "Capitalism" spend so much time trying to undermine the Tyee's articles...

Open letter to Carol James, the BC Opposition parties and everybody else in BC wh loves Democracy.

I propose a petition. I suggest it be written something like this.

WHEREAS:
Bill 23 and Bill 30 are specifically designed by the BC Liberal government to conceal public information in a way which strongly suggests that it is intended to conceal evidence of misbehaviour if not outright criminality. And

WHEREAS:
The BC Liberals elected by the people of BC promised faithfully to maintain open and accountable government, and were elected on that promise. And:

WHEREAS:
No possible democratic government can be imagined that could survive these bills, which forbid the electorate access to information that would be crucial to them in carrying out their duties as citizens and electors.

THEREFORE:
We the undersigned call upon the Governor General of BC, the Premier of BC, and the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of BC to call a general election at the earliest possible time, before said bills, or any such bills are brought to a vote.

Ms. James, if you are finding it hard to oppose these abuses on your own, this, or something like it may provide you with a tool to use.

Firstly although I am a Liberal I do not support Gordon Campbell and a far as my own MLA is concerned I don't trust him either because apparently he has no qualms about misleading the Legislature.

Secondly - Alcibiades That's precisely what I said, Minister's couldn't act alone under the old act. The writer inferred they could, and that is more than a "simple error".

Thirdly, another explosion of Tyee rhetoric will not change those facts and will only end up as the usual waste of time. Bailey you've already posted that suggestion previously - Why not just run for office?

Bailey,

The one thing you should have learned by now are that all politicians lie. It is when they cheat and steal - read Federal Liberals - that I have a real problem.

Listen - I agree with some of the concerns. However, these bills are meant to cover government dealings with publicy traded corporations.

I used to do consulting work for many public corporations, and secrecy is necessary in order to ensure the integrity of insider information. If there are leaks or probes, the stock price gets hammered and shareholders file lawsuits.

I think it is another thing that nobody is going to notice, but it is something that bothers the media that is dying for a juicy story.

It is repulsive that the Tyee would use this girl as an example. It is not relevant and very offensive.

No wonder these people can't find real journalism jobs..

pale
I agree completely. However, given the numerical situation in the Legislature, and the fact that the Liberals want to prorogue the session by the middle of this month, it may be that an assault on the bills by proposing endless amendments would serve two purposes:
1. Delay the situation, perhaps making it impossible to pass the bills according to the government's schedule; and
2. Concentrate a lot more of the public’s attention on the proposed legislation than appears to have been the case up till now;
3. If worst comes to worst, force the government to use the clearly undemocratic method of closure to ram the bills through.

In short, it's long past time the Opposition started giving these guys a public bloody nose over their behavior.

The standing ovation last week may be a hard one to live down. Standing up to the government on this issue may be a way to prove that the Opposition really understands its role in the democratic system.

A letter to one’s MLA is a good idea. Copied to each of the Premier, the Attorney-General and the leader of the Opposition. Don’t forget, also, to copy the editor of the Sun, The Province and the Times Colonist – at a minimum. The Globe and Mail and the National Post are also appropriate targets. Real letters are much better than emails.

I like Bailey’s draft, except for the final ‘Therefore’. Not that I disagree with its sentiment but just because I think a clause suggesting amendment, wholesale change or withdrawal of the bill would be more biting and practical. Saying your final objective is to bring down the government won’t actually help the cause in this case – in my view.
I hope you won’t be offended with the suggestion Bailey. I think you know our hearts are in the same place. There is no way this will turn into an issue that brings down this government. That’s sad in my opinion – but true nonetheless.

You are partially correct and perhaps the Tyee could have found some other examples, but these bills extend to all inquires, and if the wrongful death's of British Columbian's is at stake then we definitely need full disclosure.

gasworks
You don't like it when someone points out you actually got something right?

I'll try to avoid doing it too often. If that were the only problematic point about these bills I'd agree with you. It isn't, and I don't.

Alcibiades - Yep that's what the opposition is for. So far MacPhail and Company outperformed the current lot this session.

Forget about the news though, if you can write one without the rhetoric send it to the house speaker and then copy it to the attention of your MLA's secretary.

I don't recall saying that I like the bill.

Anybody still convinced that the Liberals have a new found desire to actually help the people of B.C.? I E-mailed this to Gordos office just to let him know that we are not stupid and despite the lack of mainstream media coverage, word still gets out. I suggest others do the same.

Perhaps the Lieberals could extend this secrecy stuff right through to their campaign promises and just run on a platform of "Trust Us". It would certainly be less embarassing than having their about-faces constantly exposed.

Hmmm, 2006 and counting. Lots of work to be done and not much time. Why is Gordon Campbell holding a shop vac and eyeing my wallet?

Happen to agree with you completely on this one, Colin. (this time, that is...)

Well guess what, peabrain. Your business is private. The governments business however, is PUBLIC. Sorry, but governments shouldn't be run as private companies like the Libs are doing.

This all brings back what the Devine Con government did back in the 80's. Same kind of legislation. They did it, of course, to hide their side deals and when, after two terms in 10 years, (thats right, 5 years each term, some democracy) 21 MLA's were charged with theft and embezzelment of public funds, 17 were convicted and one blew his brains out before trial. Don't think for a minute that the same thing won't happen in BC and for that matter, your statement of privacy when a corporation goes PUBLIC is also one of foul smells. Corporations that don't disclose information don't do that well. Would you invest in a company that doesn't report what it should, or accurately at that? Give me a friggin break.

leaks and probes are typically started on corporations who have something to hide. The only time secrecy should be involved is with corporate developements that risk damaging the companies ability to do good business. When a corp cooks the books, or puts out misleading information on "how well" its doing, are you trying to tell us "secrecy" is the way to go? The best companies have nothing to hide. Same goes with government and when governments hide their deals to the public like this, pretty much anyone with a brain knows that where there's smoke, there's fire.

You'd better take a good long look at how many MLA's, past and present, have been issued directorships for their little side deals in government. Emerson is a prime example of being one of the dirtiest pigs at the trough. You can start there, know it all.

I like agreement, as uneasy as it may be. Good on ya Alcibiades and Gasworks.
Ill be calling all my local organizations today.
At least making noise is better than being led to the slaughter.....like....you know the rest.

Alcibiades My point was, with such an egregious error by the writer, how can anyone put any stock in the remainder of the article.

Thanks for keeping it short pale. For an example of what not to write to your MLA see the Sask Farmer above. Who could have just as easily said his two cents worth by simply saying The governments business however, is PUBLIC. Sorry, but governments shouldn't be run as private companies like the Libs are doing.

Real journalism!?
What like the propaganda rags of canwest goebell?
Some a$$wholes wouldn't recognize real journalism unless it walked up and punched them in the face.
Also if it's so without merit as you claim why do you stick around?

All politicians lie, secrets are good, competitive advantage, blah, blah, blah.

If you can't do business in the same way you would treat your friends or your spouse, you're not a good businessperson in the long run. Being a good business person doesn't mean having the biggest pot o' money at the end. Used to be even the robber barons had a slight inkling of that.

Integrity and effort, not secrets and collusion, is what separates good business from bad. I know Capitalism will call me naive and idealistic, I prefer the term principled.

They stick around for the same reason they pass laws like bill 23. Their ideology is so weak that they fear the average person actually waking up and seeing what is being foist upon them. Just like what Colbert did. They are running scared. Unfortunately, Canada tends to follow the Americans And thus we are slower to change and that is why Campbell and Harper are in office. Never fear change is comming and the neocons presence here is just a last minute attempt to grasp their last bit of power. They are no different then a school yard bully who is crying out for attention, (after all money is no substitute for actual human companionship or even love). Ignore them and they go away.

Calm down Jesterjogger, he's a $$capitalist who thinks all politicians lie, and as I read it he seems to be partially on your side, what where you expecting.

Why not point him to something he can sink his teeth into his MLA for.

Kind of like those poor, experimental Rhesus monkey's that, instead of a real mother, were raised by crude, wire puppets covered in shag carpet with a milk bottle sticking out of them.

Just so theres no confusion I am refering to the same people who Realist is refering to.

And on that predictable erruption of principled rhetoric ....

We are all looking at some largely partisan issues here, but what never gets said is that Sherrie Charlie was killed by a system where social workerSS never bothered to do a 15 min criminal record check, EVEN AFTER SHE WAS PLACED. I have twice had to get criminal record checks for volunteering, and it never took longer than five minutes. To me, its unbelievable that something as basic as checking whether a foster parent is safe is never done, even in the days following the placement and before the death. To me, that is absoluteley criminal.

And assuming that is true, that is exactly why the bill may need to be amended to allow for government accountability and public scrutiny, otherwise deaths may go unexplained. (although I do believe there are police investigations in the mix as well.)

I look forward to the explanations of Wally Oppal in second reading.

One more thing before I go "out to lunch"

Ask you're MLA whether the bill will apply to the inquiry with respect to the wrongful deaths in the Forest Industry or the sinking of the Ferry etc., and ask him to push for an amendment that the Act not apply in ongoing cases, (that way we won't have to forever wonder).

Personally, I trust Wally Oppal.

One rule of government should be this: if Mussolinni, Franco or Hitler would have approved of a bill, we should have serious reservations about passing it.

Add Bush to that list.....

The public's right to know should always trump a corporation's right to trade secrets. If they don't like this fact they are 'free to choose' not to do business with gov't.

One of the purposes on these acts, I'm sure, is to hide the fact that it costs MORE now to house seniors in the new private sector facilities than it did under the old system.

gasworks, one error of fact casts doubt on this entire article? Fine then, your improper use of the word 'infered' a few posts back invalidates everything you have said.
(fanshaw exits stage left with a smug look on his face)

The one thing you should have learned by now are that all politicians lie. It is when they cheat and steal - read Federal Liberals - that I have a real problem.

Listen - I agree with some of the concerns. However, these bills are meant to cover government dealings with publicy traded corporations.

I used to do consulting work for many public corporations, and secrecy is necessary in order to ensure the integrity of insider information. If there are leaks or probes, the stock price gets hammered and shareholders file lawsuits.

We get the same issue brought to us, however when company want to seek approvals from the government, regardless of the level, then the requirement to operate openly kicks in. The government is the representative of the shareholders of the Province. They owe a duty to the shareholder that raises above the duty to protect the applicant information. Some information can be withheld from the public as is done now for certain financial information from companies and some traditional use studies done for First Nations. It is a balancing act, but this bill goes to far.

Capitalism:

Lying in politics, or business, is cheating and stealing. If you say you'll do X for Y, and then renege on the deal, you've stolen the time I spent negotiating with you when I could have been looking for a supplier (of governance or product or service... it doesn't matter).

Agree or disagree?

Sorry, I should have said "looking for another supplier who is as good as their word."

Read twice, post once to update an old saying for a new millenium.

Bohica! Fanshaw exiting stage left with a smug....

Not being an academic I would be grateful if you would point out my error, (it's never too late to learn).

Secondly - Alcibiades That's precisely what I said, Minister's couldn't act alone under the old act. The writer inferred they could, and that is more than a "simple error".

Thanks Gas Works for alerting us to the mistake. We went back to the lawyer source who said a minister could, under current law, launch a public inquiry and the lawyer admitted being mistaken. We have amended the story to reflect that. Tyee editor

gasworks
What's with you man. Would you like a medal - that error - however you want to characterize it - is hardly the central issue of the piece - as Alcibiades clearly wrote.

gasworks,

One needn't be an academic to use language properly. Perhaps it is too late for you to have paid attention in school, as I did. If that is the case I suggest you bookmark:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dictionary.htm

Thanks Mr. Beers' - Hopefully the point won't get lost in rhetoric.

Bohica! fanshaw.

Is it Beer's, Beers', or?

g,

Thanks to the website I mentioned I was even able to find out what 'bohica' means. They didn't teach that one in school! Cheers.

So you didn't mean to infer I was unschooled, and therefore you were more smart?

The cruel, dictatorial, and regressive policies of the present BCLiberals now define what BCLiberalism stands for.

The name is a sham...a refuge for cowards and traitors to hide behind.

These bills only become legislation because of those who vote for them. The lemming-like voting record of the BCLiberal MLA's stands for all to see.

Let all their names be carved in infamy along the Sea-to-Sky...for their children and their grandchildren...indeed for all to see. Secrecy, deception and betrayal of the people of this province being their legacy.

If there once was a Liberal party of BC, this is definitely not it, though this arrogant and self-interested motley crew love the image of themselves as such.

I like Bailey's draft as well...if Ms. James is unable to effectively bring this vital issue to the forefront of the public consciousness...I suggest the Opposition find someone who can and will do so.

Other than that.... perhaps the NDP could smuggle Stephen Colbert into Question Period...at least he knows that playing nicey-nice with tyrants gets you absolutely nowhere.

message deleted for potential libel. Tyee editor

Lynn:

She won't be able to do this.....because nobody cares! Things in BC are good.

Look at the latest public opinion polls - the BC Liberals are going to run away next election.

The only thing that the NDP had going for them was labour, which really has no gripe anymore.

Capitalism:

To think I expected you to actually answer the question....

g,

Bend Over Here I Come Again: I impliedthat you didn't pay attention in school. You inferedthat I said you were unschooled.

Lynn,

The BC Liberal party is the political wing of the BC Chamber of Commerce. I reckon there is about a 90% overlap in their memberships. The real Liberal party self destructed when Gordon Wilson couldn't keep his hands off Judy Tiabji. The Vander Zalm scandals had sullied the Socred party name beyond repair so the C of C took advantage of the situation to buy up memberships, substitute their policies and install their man, Gordo.

Combine that with the fact that even Liberal Party members aknowledge that party elites routinely ignore resolutions passed by rank and file members at conventions and a pretty clear picture of who is really running the province begins to emerge.

Bohica! fanshaw

fanshaw
are you still sick or just having too much fun to go back to work?

I agree. I would only add that there is no governance...this sham government doesn't "BELIEVE" in it... the social concerns of the public just get in the way of their schemes...like St. Mary's Hospital got in the way of real estate development...it was just in the wrong "location, location, location" for such a superficial thing as a hospital...who needs one, anyway....so voila it's gone...

Capitalism,

What you don't get is that information is freedom.

Your grain of salt has now reached lethal proportions.

I've posted this quote before but what the heck one more time won't hurt:

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear." Cicero

lynn
just heard that basi/virk has been shunted ahead 6 months to December court appearance. quelle suprise, eh!

G,
I am actually on holidays. Having too much fun to do yardwork.

Capitalism,

I agree that things are good in BC provided you mean things that the gov't has absolutely nothing to do with. It is becoming more obvious by the day, even to the politically unaware, that everything these guys touch turns to sh*t and garbage.

Your false sense of bravado notwithstanding, people DO care when important services are compromised by inept, arrogant politicians of whatever stripe.

They care because they are afraid that they won't be able to get medical care where and when they need it even in an ER.

They care enough to form local committees to oversee and monitor care of seniors in private facilities because they don't trust the health authorities to do the job.

Parents supported an illegal teachers strike because they care about their kids education and were fed up with the gov't scapegoating it's own employees whilst tearing up their contract.

They care when a child the gov't has sworn to protect dies and it is revealed that endless, needless tinkering with organizational structure is largely to blame.

They care how their money is spent. They remember Fast Ferries and will judge harshly any gov't that enacts legislation that could conceal mismanagement in any way for whatever reason.

Citing polls three years before an election is just so much whistling past the graveyard. So enjoy your childish taunts and don't forget to whistle while you work!

LOL - me too!

G West,

I think by 2011 we might get a court date that actually sticks... ;-)

....on second thought maybe that's being waaaay too optimistic.

I'm not sure it'll ever go to trial. There are considerations of power involved here that do not like the light of day

I agree with fanshaw. the economy has seasons and we are in a high summer right now. This is a natural consequence of capitalism and not because of the B.C.Liberals. What items they do control are an absolute mess and this new privacy attack is designed to hide the growing rubble they have created. The B.C. Liberals are ahead in the polls because the average voter has neither the time nor the ability to learn what is being done to them.The Campbell Clan only leads because of the natural swell of the economy has allowed the media to give the casual political observer the shelac of liberal success. Change takes time and as the people try to access governmental assistance programs and discover that they have been destroyed, or as children and people die as a result of this mindless destruction, only then will the public react with their votes. Just like what is finally happening in the United States. The public is waking up but it is slow and unfortunately the time to prevent the damage will be long gone

Capitalism, what examples fo you have in mind of Harcourt and Clark ever lying, cheating and stealing?

The BC Liberal hacks that post here are quite funny. What happens if the NDP wins the next election and they now have the legislated power to keep everything a secret? Would you be happy then? Who cares who is in government ... let's keep it open and accountable. The citizens don't hve a right to know what is going on? Come on.

Well said Chris H.

They boys who hang off Gordo's coat tails will just tell you to keep dreaming, but the Lieberals are planting the seeds of their own defeat.

I agree with those who have pointed out that a petition can't legally force an election. Especially if the government is callous and thick-skinned. They would likely just denigrate the signers and mock the process.

But it can be a powerful tool for education at least. The mainstream press is not covering this at all, so how can people be informed?

There's a strong suggestion in this that the Liberal government of BC may have been involved in out and out racketeering in respect of the BC Rail sale, the falsifying of party memberships, and election financing during the last Federal election.

If true in any degree, this is a very big deal, and would likely be matters of evidence in the Basi/Virk case, which would likely trigger enquiries which would be ordered by the court.

It's been suggested that these bills could be used to hide such government wrongdoing that might otherwise come out during those proceedings. And that would be a shame, since it seems impossible for those men to have been involved in fraud, bribery, drugs and money laundering unless some Ministers of the Crown were too.

But most of the electorate doesn't know that. Unless some kind of process begins to inform them of true details, they never will.

If these bills pass, which seems inevitible, that process will not be media coverage.

A petition would be a public process that doesn't depend on CanWest Global or any privately owned powers to bring these points to the attention of the public.

If these bills can be used to shield any guilty behaviour from exposure, they must be fought. A petition would at least call on our loyal opposition to oppose these abuses, and offer them a tool to work with.

I really don't understand why they seem to be being so quiet about it.

Am I missing something?

Most likely Bailey. I don't believe in your conspiracy theory, mostly because I can't see how Wally Oppal could possibly be involved. Can you?

Bailey
I think the time factor is a problem. Isn't the house set to rise on the 18th or thereabouts?

If that's the case there's simply no time for a petition - today's the 10th. Only hope, imo, is for the opposition to filibuster hard enough and long enough to get the attention of the media. The point is, surely, that the opposition doesn't appear to be taking this seriously enough, don't you think?

The courts put off Basi/virk today until December, at the earliest...so there's not going to be any pressure on the Libs from that quarter either. Carol James needs to drop the Gateway funding business for a couple of weeks and get onto the openness file right away.

Why would you expect anything from Wally Oppal? In my view he lost all credibility when he sought the nomination to run for these birds.

Well that's your view and I don't share it with you. Anyway it's all moot because the bill has been put on the shelf and won't be passed this session.

Remember you heard it here first.

THank heaven for small mercies. I have plenty of reason to believe what I do about Wally Oppal, by the way. He never met an opportunity to step in front of a crowd or chair a commission that he didn't relish. Anyone who has actually seen him 'work' knows this...he is a shameless self promoter.

Thank Heaven, he sounds like a worker.

So ... they've done it again, and Basi & Virk must remain on tenterhooks for another 6 months while organized crime continues doing business as usual. British Columbians should weep.

I wanted to attend a small part of that trial. Others, too, on alternate days, to report what we saw and heard. I hope I live long enough to complete this. I still believe that this is the most important trial ever held in British Columbia.

So Bailey, at least there's time to activate your petition against Campbell's attempt to legislate perpetual secrecy. I've put your first draft up on my blogspot (http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com) and if you revise and/or expand it, will put it up again.

There's even time for some serious door-pounding on the Opposition offices, too. As well as for a few eagle-eyes to get into the Visitors' Gallery to watch these bozo eruptions.

I'd love to see a general shutdown of BC's economy! A very audible voice against the 2010, billions that will be covered up as now we are over in access of $143,000,000 and it is still 2years away!
The BC Legislature scandal cover up, no not Basi, Verk etc but the big fish (pigs) who are running scared right now.
Just think if Basi plea bargains & turns in the real land barons.oops crooks. #1 maybe gordo.
His Finance min quit etc I'm sick of the politicians.
Where are all the real MLA's "cat got your tongues" and opposition Carol James
Let's make BC the best Province in Canada & kick gordo out

Robin Mathews wrote an interesting account of his personal encounter with Wally Oppal on the Vive le Canada site.

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20050503113512976

Read the new article; the bills were pulled today. It isn't April 1, is it?

Wrong again, gasworks. The reality is that when no one complains (and gets loud about it), the squeaky wheel gets no grease. What kind of letter sounds more effective... "Geez, I don't know. This secrecy thing might not be in the best interests of the public. Could you like maybe think it over?" or "If you would like to survive this term, you might want to consider not messing with my childrens and their childrens future, friggin SOB." Its really not hard to imagine who the MLA will pay more attention to, and for the right reasons. Anger helps.

Its been oft said or assumed that correct opposition to disfunctional governments or leaders of any kind is to be kind about it. No name calling, no put downs, no drama, no emotion, no anything but pure facts win the day. You know, a few facts and a bit of soft sell, be the gentleman. I've got news for you, pal. It takes action you might not like. Its takes will thats not all love and kind. It takes planned opposition to ideologues of disaster and if it doesn't happen, what happens of course, is disaster itself.

When governments or groups or organizations go out to deliberately take away essential services, or worse, human rights, sometimes even the human right to live... and those in the know who know better aren't doing better, just sitting in silence or just plain sitting, its hard to say at this point what is more criminal.

How many genocides have happened in the last 50 years, in a media age, because nations and their people said and/or did nothing? How many preventable deaths through the ages occured because noone wanted to step on anyone elses toes? "Its none of my business" is a common disasterous chant. "Leave it to business" is often worse.

Sorry, pal. I'm not giving excuses for a sharp tongue. Not at all. I'm giving an explanation. Sometimes, to get their attention, you've got to verbally slap them first. And if that doesn't work, then its war cause if nothing changes and voices are silent, there's peace alright. A peace that no one in their right mind would ever be willing to pay. Oppression is quite peaceful when no one complains.

The Campbell government has made its direction quite clear. Privatize for kickback directorships (for the shares, of course), sell off essential services (BC Gas, Ferries, BC Rail, and don't think BC Hydro isn't being hugely considered if they can away with it) bust unions, throw away environmental standards to the fisheries and logging, well just about everything they can to make a buck. Next, its tax cuts to the rich and increases to the poor, its the American and fast becoming Canadian way. If its what you like, keep typing your dribble. But if its not, better get quick with how it works.

These jokers are making the rules and if you don't play by, or counter their game, you'll lose. They want secrecy? Counter with exposure. They say one thing and do another? You say one thing and keep your word. No bluffs here. Its war and if the war of words fail... you've heard it all before. Insults beget insults. Guns bring more guns. Corruption brings more corruption. Violence breeds more violence. Disfunctionality... its not complicated.

'What happens if the NDP wins the next election and they now have the legislated power to keep everything a secret'
chris h. engaging in fantasy again. must be a faithful jinny sims follower.

Elliot
you're missing a good hockey game

'I'd love to see a general shutdown of BC's economy!' spoken like a true moron! do your cheques keep rolling in when that happens?

i'm watching guy. edmonton's dodged a few bullets. rolason scares the bejesus out of me.

No kidding. What's up with Ottawa. I missed the end of period 3 and the overtime? Is it just the Sabres keeper, or what?

missed all of it. not really surprised about buffalo. a couple of those philly games were the best i've seen since the 84/85 battles of alberta. this game's going from good to great. how'd you like to be playing that calibre of hockey?

how was that for a glove save g?

not bad. They better pull this one out though cause it may be the only one they win. You're right, the Sabres are playing well - I think Ottawa may be toast. I can actually see a Buffalo/Sharks final.

I was always a soccer player but there is something wonderful about hockey at its best.

played with some semi-pros from europe through one summer. what a gas. the ice surface becomes very small when guys like that are on the ice. got knocked on my ass more than once too.
great win for the oilers. doubt if you'll find a much harder-working group of guys. think the canucks are feeling pretty small right about now?

I wish I thought they had a chance to win 3 more and I'll sure be pulling for them but I don't think they'll make it. I think it's the speed of the game that spectators just don't appreciate if they've never played.

I hate it when sports creeps onto the editorial page!

fanshaw
I have my reasons for delving into sports now and then - aside from relaxation and comic relief. You might want to have a look at the prisons/parole thread.
Cheers.

in response to gasworks ans capitalism at the top of the thread

“You don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows”
Yup, not only a great line from ol’ Robert Allen Zimmerman and true for some of us too!
BC’s government style is directly linked to the New Zealand Experiment of the mid 1980’s

http://www.union.org.nz/policy/1031526603_27550.html
The New Zealand Experiment
In one traumatic decade, from 1985 to 1995, the social and economic structure of New Zealand was torn apart and replaced by a new order. The changes were an almost pure application of conventional "New Right" ideology, described in a quote used by the OECD as "one of the most notable episodes of liberalisation that history has to offer". The basic policies were:
De-regulation of everything; finance, investment, trade and labour markets, to allow free reign of market forces.
Monetarist ideology and techniques to control inflation and
a programme aimed at reducing the role of the state in economic and social life, alongside continued fiscal austerity self-imposed by successive tax cuts for the rich

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:E7sG74T143sJ:www.mngt.waikato.ac.nz/depts/sml/journal/indexv11/Clancy.htm++New+Zealand+Experiment++%2B+++CAnadian+politics+&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=opera

Sir Roger Douglas, the Minister of Finance who ushered in New Zealand's economic reforms, continues to surface periodically as a Chamber of Commerce speaker before various Canadian audiences, and to visit more quietly as an advisor to right wing governments. Sightings seem particularly common in the provinces of Alberta and Ontario, home to the most systematic neo-liberal regimes of late, though even the economically depressed Atlantic region is not immune from interest. He has come to signify the New Zealand "economic miracle".

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,470283,00.html

Low turnout is not just a US phenomenon. In the UK, the landslide victory for Labour in the election of 1997 was achieved on a turnout of 69 per cent - the lowest since the war. During the European elections in 1999, less than half of the electorate voted, and less than a quarter came out in the UK. In the Leeds Central by-election last year only 19 per cent of those eligible to vote did so. Predictions for the forthcoming general election are that turnout will fall to the lowest level yet.

People have lost faith in politics, because they no longer know what governments are good for. Thanks to the steady withdrawal of the state over the past 20 years from the public sphere, it is corporations, not governments, that increasingly define the public realm.

sound familiar?
Government get way with what they do for a variety of reasons the least of which being apathy.

I'm sure you have a point buried in all that rhetoric.

G,

Thanks for the invite but I really must get at that yard.

Quite!
Ya want treasure ya gotta dig

No one but a ghoul digs for treasure in a graveyard.

Then I suggest you stop doing that

And this is the grave yard ya been digging in, along with the other necrophiliacs

That's what my doctor tells me, he doesn't think Gordon Campbell's a treasure either.

In your case you might wish to consult with your analyst for advice.

Please feel free to insult yourself all night long my friend. I'm off to bed and I'll check your many reply's in the morning.

gasworks huhh your mama has pulled the plug on our computer?
Well that's it 4 to-day bye

gasworks that your mom has pulled the plug on YOUR

Bizarre ... bizarre ... bizarre ... bizarre ... !

I wish that Carole James and the NDP MLAs would be
the opposition they were elected to be. Instead of
being afraid a liberal who might vote for then in
the next election might be offenced by what they do.

AN MLA should be doing what it best for the people
who elected her or him.Not what is best to got the
leader elected the next time.

Do the best you can today and let the chips fell where
they will after the election.

MLA's should do what it best for all citizens of B.C.
not just the party they belong to.

Of coure we all know that Liberals and the others
don't know what it's best for therselves.

So they should trust a die hard NDPer look me to
know what is right for them.

diehard ndp'ers are a dying breed. antiquated. irrelevant.

I agree with most of the suggestions made by Mr. Tromp, but please remember that Liberals are not Libertarians and they are still pink inside and out, exchanging and colaborating with NDP socialists. The most secretive regimes are those of the Socialists and that does not matter whether they were Soviet Socialists ot Nazi National Socialists. When government is run by the false and unpopular ideology forcing it down the throats of those "less equal" in their own name and allegedly in their own interest; just because commoners do not even know what is good for them, they commit crimes. Only Enlightened leaders know what is good for the nation and have to use guillotines, gulags and concentration camps to enforce their rule. Doing evil things they have to use a shroud of secrecy to hide them from unwashed masses. That kind of behaviour is symptomatic to all tyranical regimes, that is evil absolute monarchs, unscrupulous small business owners, gangsters or even some Hereditary Chiefs. Some secrets are kept so well that even Federal Ministers seem unaware of them. Chretien and Martin did not know anything about robberies called "sponsorship scandal" (what an understatement it is). Like a piano player in a brothel who claimed not to even know what ladies are doing upstairs.
I had a chance to interview very honourable former Auditor General Kenneth Dye. I congratulated him for a courage to go to Court and seek access to the Cabinet records and see whether Liberal Ministers knew whether shares of Dutch company Petrofina, nationalized into Petro Canada, will be delivered with or without dividends. The difference amounted to several billion dollars which evaporated into thin air, after Canadian taxpayers paid for them. He answered: "How could you congratulate me for it, because I lost, Government did not show me their records!" I commented: "Too bad, but at least you exposed their real face for who they are; and will make the next government more honest or at least more careful"