I think a few things need to happen:

1) Ministerial salaries need to be eliminated.
2) All MP salaries can only be raised prior to an election and come into effect for newly elected emembers.
3) Elected Governor General.
4) "Yet, it was not until 1972 that party affiliation appeared on federal ballots." .. Perhaps this is the one area where we should actually roll back the clocks.

There's precedence for a Senator being a minister, isn't there? I recall Ray Perreault was a minister of something or other under Trudeau, no?

Dear Kurt,

Actually, James Moore now has the task of representing/defending the Minister of Public Works in parliament. He was appointed the Secretary of State here. Pity, he will only get $18,000 more in pay given the unenviable position he is in with Liberals howling at him since they can't touch Fortier. I hope Harper makes him a Cabinet member next time given his fluent bilingualism, bright open mind, socially moderate views, and his popularity with his constituents and the media. He deserved to be in Cabinet; now he will be defending Mr. Fortier's decisions instead. Not exactly the best way of use of a star MP's talents, I think. Maybe James didn't make Cabinet this time because he was deemed a little too young at 29 yrs. Even the youngest Conservative Cabinet Minister--Michael Chong of Wellington Halton Hills--is 35 years old. Ah well, at least he still has a bright future ahead of him.

Funny, McMartin and I seemed to have summed up emerson's character along similar sentiments. I just finished commenting on the "recall david emerson" petition that there is a category deemed as "high class escorting" which our dear Belinda demonstrated on which she took another partner based on a difference in party ideology, and then we have what emerson rather self-indulgently committed - which is political prostitution. I think Vancouver Kingsway has been badly infected with an opportunistic parasite.

I thought it would take many months for Harper to exhaust his electoral goodwill. Well pundits and my apologies to others, Harper has done it in a few days. Harper's arrogance may cost him dearly in the near future as Canadian voters tend to vote against not for a candidate.

Judas Emerson, a classic Canadian political whore, sold out to the highest bidder; whay are the ethics for this? It seems now the Conservatives are not just as corrupt as the Liberals, they are more so and the putrid smell of power corrupts hangs heavy over Parliment Hill.

Luckily it is a minority government and the knives of political ambition are being sharpened, as I'll wager there are many, sitting on the government's benches, just as horrified as the voters in Vancouver Kingsway.

emerson's been for sale before, and there's really not a huge surprise in his appearing to have been bought now. isn't he a captain of industry? isn't that what captains of industry do? sell themselves to the one who maximizes profit for them?

it's none the less disgusting.

and the sneer at the voters in vancouver-kingsway, not dissimilar to the sneers of the captains of industry who always steal from the people who work for them.

and for all the folks who voted 'strategically', now it's likely clear, and perhaps permanently, that doing so was not such a smart thing. perhaps there will be a new verb in canadian political punditry, being emersoned.

be well

The CBC quotes Mr. Emerson as advising all campaign contributors to "give their head a shake" if they think they should be paid back.

Again, this from a minority cabinet minister.

The guy's a liability and it's the Liberals good luck to be free of him.

Just heard Emerson say he was surprised by the uproar and "people need to give their head a shake." That he became a Conservative to "pursue the agenda he got into government for in the first place." Here's what that agenda might really include.

Earlier I said: Someone noted that Emerson was Vice-Chairman of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives!!! I knew about his corporate past, but had no idea he was in league with this crowd. This is the Tom d'Aquino organization that has been working for two decades (under several names) to sell Canada out to the U.S. Half of this so-called Canadian Council is made up of U.S. execs. and they have been responsible for a great deal of shadowy pressure to herd Canadians into the maw of the Americans. They have been working on the so-called "deep integration" of Canada and the U.S. for years now.

OK, the man who Harper has hired to make the transition to government and select cabinet ministers is Derek Burney. If that name is familiar, think back to the 1980s -- he was Canada's chief negotiator in creating NAFTA during the Mulroney years. This is the agreement that gave the United States the rights to our oil and gas resources (no ifs, ands or buts) when they want it and at a price that they want it. It's the framework through which the U.S. was able to steal $5 billion from our lumber industry. It's the one that will hand our water over, and ultimately the one that will allow American health insurance companies to replace our public, single-payer healthcare insurance system. As private insurance moves in, the government will continue to reduce the services our public system covers, and eventually we'll have a system that will require us all to buy public insurance for virtually all of our healthcare. Our requests for health care (doctor visits, drugs, hospital stays, etc.) will first have to be vetted by the insurance companies. They'll decide whether "you qualify" to get the healthcare services you are seeking. Even if you pay good money, you could be deemed (by a clerk) to be too fat, to have the wrong genes, to be ... I dunno, whatever they come up with.

Anyway, I digress (somewhat). What might Emerson's agenda be? Watch for Emerson to "magically" solve the softwood lumber deal. That'll be arranged by the "deep integration" boys, and you can be sure it will likely have some hidden arrangements that further bleed or compromise Canadians. Think I'm just dreaming? Remember how proud Canadians were that we refused to join the Americans in their invasion of Iraq (and how smart we felt after the debacle was revealed)? Well, the joke's on us. Canada is now officially at war, in support of the Bush administration's program of world aggression. We are about to send thousands of troops to the worst part of Afghanistan, not to bring democracy, but to be a force of occupation and active fighting. War. Hey, was this a decision our Members of Parliament made? No, it was just slipped in while we weren't watching. So, just like they're doing elsewhere, the Americans charge in, destroy lives and countries, take over the valuable resources, build permanent military bases, then turn the mess over to others to handle and pay for.

So now the Americans are pulling out of Afghanistan and Canadian combat soldiers are taking their place. And what are the US forces doing on their way out? Why they've stepped up the bombing -- any golly, gosh all of a sudden we're starting to see way more car bombs, suicide bombers etc. in that region. Nice way to treat your "allies" eh? Make the locals really hate the occupying force (us). Now Canada and Canadians really are in danger of becoming targets of terrorists. Why are we so blind to all this?

Just heard CBC Vancouver radio morning show play a "cute" skit comparing Kingsway constituents to jilted lovers who are shocked their lover is the wrong gender. This is an example of how the media are playing a major role in soft-pedalling, down-playing, mollifying public rage. Ha, ha, just a little joke, a little nothing. Like Emerson said, we should just give our heads a shake.

And this is CBC, supposedly the voice of the people. Not anymore. They like to hobnob with the power people, and so they'll go along with the gutting of our country. Think I'm over-stating the media's role?

Well, funny how, even though there was an election campaign going on, we never learned that Harper refused at least three requests to appear before the federal ethics commissionner in November during the investigation of the Grewal affair. Harper just outright refused to appear to answer questions. But hey, just a few days after the election, it comes out on page whatever of the Globe. Very typical.

I remember the Globe's Gary Mason after practically drooling over the Cammpbell Liberals and "beautiful" Carole Taylor during the provincial election. The day after, Mason wrote that he had received complaints about his rosy coverage of the Liberals but said "nobody wanted to talk about the negative things"!!!

Anyway, we need to ignore the media, and take a stand ourselves to get Canada back on course. No Liberals, no Cons -- we have to put the NDP in power -- seriously. Consolidate ourselves behind the only chance we have to fight against corporate/military servitude.

We need to try to pull Canada back from the brink of this "deep integration" with the Bush administration corporate kleptocracy. Not with words (mine or yours), but with action. And we need to do it fast. Harper's government is the smallest minority elected in Canadian history! Let's not forget it, and let's not let THEM forget it!

Let's organize a spontaneous, cross-Canada boycott of federal government offices, or of major business centres or whatever or wherever we can to most hurt the wallets of the corporate robber barons who are gutting our country. We have to be prepared to lose a day's pay, or to risk that our big screen TV won't be delivered on time, or that we can't cross the border to take our kids to Disneyland that day. We have to wake up, and risk some of our comfortable way of life before it's whipped out from under us.

Anyone out there who is interested in helping to organize a spontaneous, cross-Canada show of outrage? We did it to help convince Quebec not to vote for separation (forget the flag/sponsorship issue, that's just the happy wedge the Cons used to con their way in to power). Canada-wide, let's let them know in a major way that they can't take Canada away from us. How about maybe constant picketing of each and every Cons constituency office across the country?

Of course, they'll be betting will all just turn our attention to the Olympics and by the time they're over, the Emerson thing will have all blown over.

Canada is not theirs to run as they please -- Harper's government is the smallest minority government in Canadian history!!! Ideas on where/what/how to voice our outrage please. I'll volunteer to get it going.

77% of the riding got the finger and only a handful of folks were protesting outside his office, but I hear the online petition is snowballing, I'm with Sunny, lets have a gathering at David's office, anyone , how about this Sat, come on a couple of hours , make friends have fun, who will bring the coffee.

We gave him the mandate, he is not his gift to us, arrogant whore. Come one come all, lets
ramp this up until he steps down or needs escort by RMCP everywhere like his buddy
Gordo

This is not the same as any other political defection. It's fraud, plain and simple. Think of it this way -- you lay down some money to buy a car, say a nice mini-van with enough room to haul the family around, but what's delivered is a souped up, dodgy pick-up truck. And you bought it through e-bay, so you're stuck, no recourse.

This is just another version of election fraud. And watch all the talk about how "this isn't partisan politics." That's an attempt to get the public thinking that the Cons are the government for all people; that there's no need for other parties. Early days in a campaign to alter forever our democratic system in Canada.

Just had another thought. Watch for a concerted PR campaign, terms like "this isn't partisan politics" and other stuff tossed out frequently to get us used to it.

I think the Cons have a very deliberate plan to turn our world upside down by using the same corrupted language that the Bush administration has used. If it's black, just call it white, and Bob's your uncle, it's white.

That may be the reason why the lean Harper cabinet has so many "communications" people appointed as Ministers -- at least four or five of them are professional communications specialists. In other words, PR flaks.

That can only mean they're going to do a full court press on the Canadian public to mislead, deceive and conceal. I have a degree in marketing and communications, have worked as a campaign manager at provincial and city levels, and served with multi-national business consulting firms -- I know all about how these tactics are applied. I just have never seen them deployed to such an extreme.

This is frightening. Our very way of life is going to be dismantled if the Harpers aren't turfed out, and fast.

OK, so we've signed the petition.

Now what are Vancouver-Kingsway constituents going to do next?

I guess thetyee and David Beers are the ringleaders of the Emerson recall campaign. Funny they didn't do that regarding Stronach. Not surprising. Oh but Stronach did it for the right reasons.

Emerson is definitely in politics for the money. After all it's a huge pay raise going from a CEO to a MP.

Nevermind whats best for BC. It all about what fits with your personal ideological views. Kind of like what determines what's news in here. Ideology first, facts second.

The recall campaign is a dumb idea and a waste of resources. The real anger here shouldn't be directed at David Emerson but at Stephen Harper.

Expending energy flailing at anything but Harper's utter failure to step up to the ethical standards he supposedly set for himself and his party is wasteful and counterproductive. One only hopes as much anger and disappointment is brewing in Quebec and Ontario over his equally irresponsible actions there as it is here.
The facts are, plain and simple, it's Harper and Reynolds who need to wear the horns for this one.

Lets act

Sing the Recall petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/RDE/petition.html

Lets arrange a sit in or protest at his office,

Lobby your MLA to force a bi election, or draft a bill requiring one before any ethics bill is passed.

Dissent anyway you can, we cannot sit by and be insulted by this creep. This riding has not elected a conservative since 1958, if we want democratic rights we must not allow this to happen.

JIm:

You are a hypocritical donkey's $%@!

I think Stronach should have resigned as well and run in a bye-election! Same goes for any "switch" avfter an election and before the next one.

Emerson could not wait for the house to sit first!

Emerson was not running for re-election as an M.P.; he was running for re-election to a cabinet minister position!!! QAnd whoc cares which party gives it to him!

Bait and Switch!!!!

As someone said: buying a van and getting sedan delivered instead!

And so much for the Conservative's ethics platform! Behaving just like Liberals!

It makes a mockery of the Canadian federal democratic process and dismisses a majority of his voting constituents.

Who can trust anything a political opportunist, swindler and snake oil salesman like Emerson says!

The DISHONOURABLE David Emerson.

A couple of thoughts. The first part of the article is in the aggregate a somewhat faulty (tower?) premise.

The author asserts that "Liberal campaign workers 'it was said' were being pulled out of races-from ridings----that's pretty weak considering....

"Emerson's margin of victory was 4,600...better than the 1,351 he beat Ian Waddell previously.....

In fact Mr. Emerson's vote increased (against his own baseline) 7.6%, while the Liberal popular vote decreased (relative to its own baseline) by 3.5%.

I believe the premise would have been more convincing had 'those alleged campaign workers taken from other ridings' had helped him to win by an amount less than the baseline amount (against Waddell) of 1,351, whether the allegation is true or not.

To compare Mr. Emerson's 'bright spot' against a loss for the Liberals nationally only supports negating the premise.

The benefits segment of the discussion appear to be in line with reality.

GWest-you are going to fail the LSAT/GMAT/Political Science 201 test if you keep this up. Harper equals Canada-Reynolds equals BC (but is retired). Emerson is BC-party switching, (consistent with the theme of the discussion).

You need to line up apples with apples, pears with pears, and bananas with bananas if you want your fruit to be correct.

I am sorry but if there is criticism to be had, it must be owned entirely by David Emerson.

Oh Jim Kiss my Asss

Are we know holding Belinda as the standard, only Emerson could make her look good.

I guess we don't need to lower the bar for you , you just slide under.

Harper ran on doing things differently and now we get these backroom deals and game playing
before parliament even sits. We even have folks in cabinet who didn't even run for gods sake.

You say

Nevermind whats best for BC. It all about what fits with your personal ideological views. Kind of like what determines what's news in here. Ideology first, facts second.

Talk about ideology , what your saying is that individuals and party insiders should determine in their mind what's best and our electoral system and democratic rights should go be the wayside. What kind of fascist are you
Jim Stop being an CKNW parrot and use your head, does David deserve a cabinet post over other competent MP's like James Moore, this move is a betrayal on so many fronts. The good news is that in one move Stevie has
lost all credibility.

Don't have a stroke because one media source(the tyee) is not being an apologist, don't like it get lost , Peter Warren and Bill Good Lap dog are waiting for you.

See my above post for actions.

David Orchard just won his court case and recouped over 77K that was stolen from him during his leadership betrayal, I say we take David to court to get the money back plus lay charges of fraud.

Keep the petition going ,
Lobby your MP's Have weekly protest at his office and dog him all over town. Chase the scum bag out

ROBBINS Sce Research
That would be exactly what I'd suspect from someone who believes that what's good for business is good for the country. To pretend that Harper hasn't sold his soul to Bay Street and Howe Street is just nuts. THis proves there's no difference between the cons and the hated Liberals after all and it nothing to do with political science and and everything to do with looking after your own - John Reynolds and opportunism ought to be filed under the same definition in the dictionary - what's really disgusting is that you pretended to believe something else. You can't be on the side of business and the side of the angels too. Harper's wasted an enormous amount of political capital for nothing and you know it. Why else would you have made the Campbell connection so blatantly in your post yesterday? I see he's stepped up to the plate big time too!

It's interesting now that it's starting to hit the fan that this is all to be hung on Emerson's clever little shoulders.
It's not prostitution that's illegal, it's solicitation and paying for it that is - and you know it - to spin a legal metaphor. If you think Harper can walk away from this by quoting his little mantra from the election forum with the CBC you're not as smart as you think you are and neither is he. A lot of this is going to stick.

Name says:

They are going to bleat more, give out some more hot air, stamp their feet like little children. This may last for a few weeks (heck some of them will hold their breath and pass-out over and over again for a few months), but in the end it will all blow over...

In 16-36 months they will come back to the polls and re-elect this turncoat, or worse they will elect another parachute candidate because the LiEberals will be all in disarray in the riding and not have a candidate acceptable to the new 'leader'.

What should they do?

Start organizing NOW to fight the next election, if they are LiEberal members and want a LiEberal candidate, then get in the face of the new 'leader' and ensure that no parachute candidates come out from the ether. Otherwise go looking for someone else that you can trust to represent the riding faithfully. Since the organization NOW is needed, take the time to go to the little rallies, protests etc and FIND the passionate workers (if they can come out to waste time and hot air in anger at the front door of the constituency office, then maybe they can put that effort to better use).

Stop wasting energy, start putting it to good use as the railing against what has been done will only come to naught.

As for the harrassing of family of Emerson, this is wrong and those that continue to do it will face more difficult problems, that will reflect poorly on the citizens of Van-Kingsway.

freebear writes:

Who can trust anything a political opportunist, swindler and snake oil salesman like Emerson says!

The Canadian federal system is not democratic (save for the one day every 2-5 years that we, the electorate, get to speak). It mocks us, the electorate, the rest of the time. For examples, Trudeau giving BC the 'finger', Darth Cretien wrapping his hands around a persons' neck in a crowd that HE walked into.

Dismissing his electorate? He never did face them, he was parachuted by the LiEberals. Now head-hunted by the CONformers.

Who?

Good question, clearly the other business interests in the Vancouver Board of Trade want to hear what he has to say...

Wow, such anger.

Firstly, I do not agree one bit with Emerson's move across the floor or with Harper's bait of a cabinet post to get him to cross.

Having said that, is it a good thing for BC? Likely the answer is yes. What is being missed here in all of the chest thumping is that David Emerson is a very intelligent, succesful individual who appears to be in politics for all of the correct reasons. He is not there to feather his nest, rather he is there to make a difference.

Another thing that is getting missed (I suspect purposefully) is the record of all of the recent defectors from the Cons over to the Libs. Belinda Stronach (hey - her initials are BS - brings forward all kinds of childish potential), Keith Martin and Scott Bryson all won their seats in the subsequent election after defecting. Seems the constituents of these ridings are far more tolerant than the flamers on this site.

And the idea of this tempest in a teapot steamrolling into a national movement to elect the NDP? Wow, what did you put in your morning tea there buddy? Please, please, please accept the fact that the NDP is, and always will be a fringe party. As high as 42 seats, as low as 10 seats. That is the historic range for this party which cannot even garner more seats than a party which only runs candidates in one province.

It would be really interesting, although not likely to ever happen, to see what Layton's views would be if one of the more left-leaning members of the Libs decided to commit political suicide and jump over to the NDP. But the likelyhood of that ever happening are about the same as the likelyhood of pigs flying out of Raef Mairs butt.

ROBBINS Sce Research
C'mon Glen, give me a break. You know very well this isn't really about Emerson. Sure he's a smart guy and he'll give you some needed experience on the front bench to keep the reform yahoos in line but to pretend that this is all his fault and you can lay it on his shoes is pusillanimous and you know it. Your post yesterday proved that but I'll quote it back below because a lot of people may not have read it. Political science has very little to do with what we're talking about here - this is a question of ethics and failed expectations - more the domain of philosophy.

For any of you who didn't read it yesterday, here's what was said by the same poster who now tries to pretend this is all on Mr Emerson:

I put myself in Harper's shoes. Less than a year ago they are saying he has to go he can never win. He wins based primarily on two things. The Liberals can't win-we couldn't write that script with a straight face. If the Liberals can't win, than who wins? Stephen Harper. But Ontario and Quebec are a little less anti-Ottawa than we are, and they have the most seats. If Harper is supposed to win, to let the country take a fresh step- to clean up government for all to see, than he had to conduct himself a certain way which was not the Reform Alliance way. This he did.

Well the results come on Election Day and it isn't quite what he had hoped for. The Conservative seats plus NDP don't equal the necessary 155, AND PM designate Harper has got nothing in the cities of Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.

Here is this Conservative pollster in BC (for example), who writes some of the script for an acceptable Conservative campaign with an early bridge into Quebec, who now starts screaming-you have a vacuum in BC, Reynolds is retired-Robbins is the king of hellfire and on and on (using myself as the political metaphor).

Reynolds needs to replace himself and get another suit ready for the Senate race-but can't keep Campbell hanging in the lurch. None of the old guard Liberals will touch the open leadership, and Emerson DID come for Martin. With Martin gone the phones are open callers and Mr. Emerson is just what the doctor ordered. However we have a problem with optics measured against a commitment to be different.

Mr. Harper has a choice. He has been counted out and he knows that the Reform principles before personalities set hasn't and won't make it. He knows that if he takes Emerson he is getting someone with alot of juice, and although I don't condone any of this, Emerson is a really smart mofo. I mean this guy is cooking with serious gas and everybody I mean everybody knows this. You are already making your move with Fourtier so your thumb is already out and you are looking for a ride showing a little leg.

By adding this perfect piece to the puzzle to make it way better than it was just a week before you are asked to take some heat and get a first rate quality political actor (I am suspending any discussion remotely related to ethics for the time being) in Emerson, AND your leverage increases against the NDP whose leverage decreases, and you have to make a choice. Be more succussful or less successful in implementing your policy initiatives which you promised Canadians most of whom are not thinking about David Emerson, AND BC only brought you 17 seats abandoning any interest in you in the lower mainland.

You ask yourself should I be completely principaled or completely political.

It was unethical in my view, but if I were in his shoes I would have done the same thing-likely.

Could someone please tell me couldn't Harper appoint Emerson as an cabinet minister without him crossing the floor? Didn't the Libs do something like this with Chuck Strahl?

So why does Emerson crossing the floor make it better for BC? As a Liberal we would still have the same number of MP's? We would still have the same number if the Rhino party won the seat. Does anyone really think this two faced jerk will funnel money to us, which seems to be what some folks sort of figure makes a politician a Saint. I believe Chuck Strahl is the bag man for BC now, not Emerson.
I thouhgt the cons where going to stop doing the money passed around routine?
we are looking at some bad times ahead. I'm not a conserative either. Having seen Dief, Joe and Lying Brian at the helm , its time to batten down the hatches and watch more chunks of thsi country ehad south. Has anyone noticed harper does the same grandeous wave routine of Tricky Dick, I'm not a crook, Nixon?

NOw surely someone out there can do the same job that Stevie Harpboard is asking Emerson to do. Everyone is replaceable.

There is no way that BC needs him as much as his apologists claim.

OTTAWA (CP) - Some of Trade Minister David Emerson's new colleagues in the Tory caucus are still hearing from constituents
The Ont constituents are leaning on their new Conservative MP's, they are disgusted and don't like the Emerson appt, This thing is turning into a fire storm, say goodbye to Ont support if they don't have a bi election.

Emerson, who faces calls for his resignation among top Liberals, did not attend a special Conservative orientation caucus today, though other cabinet colleagues did. uents four days after his stunning defection to the Conservative cabinet.

Also point to ponder, David is not invited to the new caucus meeting, I wonder what their talking about , LOL Oh Stevie , did you really have to make us look like such hypocrites so soon.

Anyone who supports David is saying that he knows better and does not need to respect 77% of hisconstituents.

David Emerson is a very intelligent, succesful individual who appears to be in politics for all of the correct reasons. He is not there to feather his nest, rather he is there to make a difference.

Yeah, yeah, so the spinmiesters say, but his recent actions don't demonstrate that.

He may be intelligent but he certainly lacks political intelligence. His astonishment at the reaction he's getting is testament to that.

Whatever Emerson's reason for crossing, it has the optics of someone trying to "feather his nest", you know, being too good for opposition and all.

Guys, you're missing the point. The criticism is valid when directed at Emerson but it really belongs on Harper's head. The brain trust knows that and they're trying to find a way to deflect it back onto Emerson.

If you're upset you have to direct your fire at the real target, the guy who campaigned for two months (and made sanctimonious promises for 10 years prior to that) on the premise that he was different, better and more ethical than the vile liberals. Now John Reynolds and David Emerson and Gordon Campbell are telling you none of that is true. Do you feel bought and paid for? Well you ought to.

THis is demonstrable proof, from their own mouths, that that was all bs and that's the lesson that needs to be taken from this. The electorate needs to stop behaving like a bunch of children.

As far as what Emerson can do for business in BC, don't fall for that argument - it's baloney too and Harper knows it. If the temperature riese too high you can bet they'll be glad to see Mr Emerson bow out - gracefully or otherwise and somebody else will get wheeled out as the current savior of civilization and free enterprise, motherhood and the future of the human race. I'm just surprised some old reformer in the caucus isn't rising to rhetorical heights over this but maybe they've kept it quiet so far.

This is about gaining and holding onto power, nothing else. Watch and see, if the fuss doesn't die down fairly soon you'll see Mr Emerson quietly return to the private sector sooner rather than later. I think they've already given the early indications that that's what they're up to. Emerson doesn't need the money, or the aggravation and I'll bet if Harper refuses to step up to the plate that he'll be gone before Tulip time in Ottawa.

David Emerson's only hope of reclaiming some honour is to resign immediately, stand for a by-election as a Conservative, and let the people of Vancouver-Kingsway decide his fate. I hope they whup his mercenary, conniving butt.

The next task: get Senator Michael Fortier to do the same thing ... allow the people to decide in a by-election whether or not he'd be their choice as a Conservative M.P.

Then what about Dumbass Day? He is Minister of Public Safety at a time when (a) there's a fear of deeper integration between Canada and the USA and (b) when the U.S. Pentagon has just laid out a gameplan for military aggression on any country in which U.S. interests are at risk.

Canada is in a godawful position: we'd be subject to U.S. military aggression, and we'd be expected to assist the U.S. as it invaded other countries. Stockwell Day is our liaison [cue the maniacal laughter].

SHarper made a strange decision to drop the office of Deputy Prime Minister while not only keeping the bit assigned to Anne McLellan as the Public Safety Act of April 2002. Kept it, and expanded it into a whole new Ministry -- for Stockwell -- at a time when SHarper is supposedly reducing the size of Cabinet. How come? Was this a campaign promise? Did we suffer for lack of Public Safety in the past??

I would love to be a fly on the wall at today's conservative caucus meeting in which David was not invited or was asked not to come.

People are their deeds, use you won brains people and not be MSM puppets or partisan fools.

David is a liar who has betrayed his supporters, backers, volunteers and snow jobbed an entire community, and he feels hard done by, arrogant whore,

We are what we do, plain and simple,

This is the carte blanche business mindset at work...which we saw here in BC with Campbell and it operates quickly and efficiently in order to blind-side democracy and put a thoroughly self-interested agenda in place.

They think they have bought the store and that they now have the right to hire all their own employees. And to sell what they want to sell like BC Rail (and soon to be Canada itself) out of the hands of the people.

The will of the people has no meaning in this process.

Nor does the idea of governance.

Canada now has a board of directors in power with a top CEO...who have no intention of representing the people of this country.

It really now is up to us.

BC Mary

I wish it were that simple. The dynamics in Quebec are different though. First of all there is plenty of precendent for having a senator in caucus and as a minister. Second, Fortier is a conservative, has been a conservative and didn't just run in the election as a star Liberal candidate - therefore he can't be attacked on the same basis as Emerson.
Further, In Fortier's case Harper can legitimately claim that he's appointing Fortier for reasons associated with national unity and to get more of Quebec's concerns (those that can't and won't be advanced by the Bloc) into the national arena. I would wager that the reaction to Fortier's appointment is much more diffuse and muted in both Quebec and Ontario where the outcome of the next provincial election is foremost in everyone's minds.

WHat this issue needs to engender, in my opinion, is a grassroote effort to force changes in the way governments are elected. Political professionals pay lip service to democracy - it's time they started to really care out how incredibly ineffective democracy actually is. If this incident has any lasting meaning it will be as a wedge with which the system can be opened for the people who actually vote, I think. I'm not very hopeful about that though when most of peoples' anger and frustration seems to beat harmlessly on the wrong doors.

Guys, you're missing the point. The criticism is valid when directed at Emerson but it really belongs on Harper's head. The brain trust knows that and they're trying to find a way to deflect it back onto Emerson.

It's a good point, but Harper never never had my vote in the first place, and won't get in the future. I suspect that's true for many here, as well.

I don't think the critism that's been leveled at Emerson means that Harper isn't wearing this too. Lots has been made of the hypocrasy of a PM who wants "to do things differently".

First impressions are lasting ones.

Stuart asks:

I repeat:

Start organizing NOW to fight the next election, if they are LiEberal members and want a LiEberal candidate, then get in the face of the new 'leader' and ensure that no parachute candidates come out from the ether. Otherwise go looking for someone else that you can trust to represent the riding faithfully. Since the organization NOW is needed, take the time to go to the little rallies, protests etc and FIND the passionate workers (if they can come out to waste time and hot air in anger at the front door of the constituency office, then maybe they can put that effort to better use).

Stop wasting energy, start putting it to good use as the railing against what has been done will only come to naught.

ooops, spelling... criticism/hypocrisy

lynn states:

It really now is up to us.

Excellent point. What to do? How to achieve the aim of getting civic control out of the hands of that BoD or CEO?

Separation from Ottawa and cutting them, that BoD and CEO, off from the $$$ supply would be a good start? No?

What is your solution?

verso
Just look up the comments chain for one from ROBBINS Sce Research (some 2 hours previous to this) and note the following:

Then go down a couple of posts and read the long quote from the same guy posted a day before (originally) and now placed in my post of this morning. Listen to what John Reynolds is now saying to the media - they are shifting, or trying to shift, all the blame onto Emerson - and it looks, from what I'm reading here, that they're succeeding. THis is an attempt to try and put a fence around the leader before his hair starts to burn up in public - at least that's what it looks like to me. I'd even bet that the conservative posters on this site are trying to do the same thing - as I observed above.
It's important not to fall for it and lay the blame for this where it really belongs. Even if the advice to pursue Emerson came from somebody else (guesses anyone) the blame is all on Harper and it shouldn't be shifted - no matter how quickly Gordon Campbell and the other apologists get their spin out to the media.

G West complains:

In any agreement, there are two persons involved.

In this agreement, Emerson changing his stripes, it is only Mr. Emerson whom has the decision to switch or not. He is the only one that is taking action, as the other side; Harper or Reynolds (it does not matter whom) is not taking any actions, theirs is a passive role. Emerson is the only one to act or not.

Thus the BLAME can be placed on Mr. Emersons' head.

Now the excrement which has hit the fan, can easily be spread all over the place. Most of it hitting Emerson, then some splashing on Harper, Reynolds, the LiEberals, the CONformers, the House of Commons and the electorate.

Looking for a scapegoat? Try Paul Martin, for he is the one that struck with the knife first, then had the blade handed to him (point first) by the electorate.

murdock:
No question Emerson's to blame too but that's not the point, it's this quote I was talking about - evidence the word "entirely". Is that clear!

Considering where that came from - see my post above - I rest my case.

The crime is solicitation, not prostitution after all.

The crime is solicitation, not prostitution after all.

*zing*

G West:

Yup and the blame will totally and entirely stick only to Emerson, if the CONformers decide to cut him loose and stick him on the back bench (sober second thought garbage) then where is Emerson?
What will he do?

Go back?

Go to the NDP?

Go to the BQ?

He would most likely just sit as an indepentant (most likely not even showing up except for the absolute minimum required to collect his pay and continue to snub his nose at the Van-King electorate).

Thus the statement of the blame ENTIRELY resing on Mr. Emerson is ENTIRELY CORRECT.

In this commentators mind your case failed.

The more you watch politics, the more you realize that Canada is blessed with an abundance of un-principled leaders. Emerson seems to be a fine example of this.

I spent my youth travelling and working around the world and it always interested me how adeptly many Oil Rich Arab nations managed to keep complete control/ownership of their countries resources, enabling guaranteed incomes, free education, the finest health care and public services for all their residents.

In stark contrast, Canada, immensly rich in Natural Gas and the coveted Oil Sands, have given over 100% ownership rights to multinationals. Instead of maintaining some semblence of birthright ownership to the resources of this land, we allow foreigners to buy it up without restraint, lock stock and barrel.

This sell-out of Canadian's heritage has come at the hand of 'free-market' (special interest) un-principled politicians, all too willing to give up the farm for a short term spin of the 'jobs, jobs, jobs' mantra.

I know first hand that the Oil rich Arab nations are amazed at our naïveté !

Canada, after a long tenderizing process, has softened to the idea of being SOLD to the highest bidder!

It's no secret that our WATER is next on the list of must-have commodities? If there are any REAL patriots out there in power, I don't see them!

G West indicts:

Sure now we are talking about crimes?

OK so the potential crime here is Influence Peddling, you know the one GURM the WORM was trying to prove last year?

I agree that the bald-faced statement by the PM of him, Stephen Harper, soliciting David Emerson should be enough to have the Queens Cowboys come riding in an scoop him up.

but

The Commisioner of the RCMP is appointed by the PM, pissing off the new boss is not the best way to keep your position. So do not count on any charges.

what is needed to get that ball rolling is some proof, more than the limited statement of the PM.

no proof, no case.

sorry you lose again G West.

The character of the man: Emerson is a member of the fancy Marine Drive golf club in Vancouver. When a controversial gender issue arose at the club, politician Emerson ran away from it by asking to be transferred to the leave-of-absence membership category, even though he knew it was against the club rules since he still maintained his principal residence in Vancouver. But the club went along with it--he was, after all, a federal cabinet minister. What a guy.

Talk of riots is a bit much IMO.

This quote came across my desk today.

"We must not resort to the flame where only light is required."
-Victor Hugo, French romantic poet, novelist and dramatist (1802-
1885)

Hey Harper! I gots a deal for youse anda alove of yourse crew. You gonna gets so mucha outa dis thata youse gonna shoot da moon. It doesn't get much betta cause we gonna fix it sos dat we get rid of the elections anda you donts gotta put up with dis riff raft anymoe. You just change it so dat we only vote for one man... da party leader and den youse just gotta pick whos yous want woiking wit ya. And den you gonna save a lotta money on political campaigning dat you can use to helps youse get elected again. Alls we ask is that you lets us finance the debt and we fix it sos that you don't have to pay one dime till 2008. Plus, we will give youse one percent cash back. ya dats right. Dats seven billion dollars in your pocket right now that use can use to maybe buy dem submarines you always wanted. Just come on down to the pool hall and talk to Gus. He's the guy with the tattoos. You can'ts run da country without us so it's better to let us helps out. So whats youse waiting for?

Be "Proud" of Kanadian Korporate Kulture:

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=9f895ea5-2c16-4f21-8de6-252a6bb91b31&k=52091

murdock

Baloney! You know perfectly well I was speaking metaphorically. The point is, as you well know, that there is plenty of blame to go around. To suggest that it all rests on Emerson is blind to the fact that the 'solicitation' came from Harper or his minion, Reynolds (do the quotes make it clear that I'm speaking metaphorically?).

Further, do you think for a minute that if Harper decides Emerson is too hot to handle that Emerson will sit on the back bench or as an independent? Surely not. He'll go back to the sinecure he came from.

Your point about influence peddling, if it has any merit (which I don't think it does in this case) redounds on Harper anyway. Why are you so anxious to give him a pass on the other matter, I'm puzzled?

Lose!! What are you talking about? This is the real world we're talking about here not some kind of consiratorial realm where there are such things as winners and losers. Truth to be told the only losers are the naive voters who thought democracy in this country actually meant something! I'm just asking for the adults who played the game with Mr Harper to step up and take their lumps. If this is ever going to change it certainly won't be a rusult of this incident - at least directly - on that you won't get any argument from me.

G West,

These are words, and they have meaning.

You have argued a 'case' and 'resting' it.

Therefore I have used the same metaphore.

cheers

BLONDE PITBULL asks:

In a simple answer, no.

In a complicated one, if he invites Emerson into the cabinet room without the change in stripe, then Harper has to answer to the GG for why he has done so. Moreover, in a real sense, Harper would have to accept the leader of the party first in any cabinet position, such as in a coalition government situation.

More importantly Harper will have to answer to the other 'back-bench' MP's about this. I think the ex-reform party members will complain loudly, then be reminded that silence in public will equate to continued service in power.

Power is the name of the game in Ottawa and the ex-reformers are getting a first taste (and finding it has a bad aftertaste).

G West says:

Harper a pass? never. I am just realistic about the chance of anything further really coming from this situation.

The RCMP and the corruption of our 'national' police force, I wish to indict then at every stage. I say that, like the Canadian Military was corrupted in the 1966-68 reshuffle, the RCMP has become a useless arm of the law for the people of Canada in the 1973-75 reshuffle of the executive of the RCMP.

Any PM will be an untouchable for the RCMP, until the system is changed.

G. West, a little practical wisdom, please. Metaphorically speaking, you're suggesting a shotgun when the situation requires a sniper's rifle. We can't take on the whole Con. Pack at once.

To make this electoral grievance clear and actionable, we must aim squarely at David Emerson. You underestimate us by suggesting that we don't know that SHarper bears full responsibility. But we'll deal with him later.

In practical terms, you're advising us to divide and conquer. Well, I'd love to mop the floor with a whole trainload of those cheating, slit-eyed characters but, for the moment, David Emerson is poster boy for Reform/Socred/BCLiberal/Conservatives. And I say he is the one who must be pushed into cleaning up his act.

If the voters of Vancouver-Kingsway have the proper opportunity to elect Emerson as a lying, cheating Conservative, I'd be able to accept that, in some inscrutable way. What I can't accept is the multi-level fraudulence perpetrated on trusting voters.

So Emerson is the guy. Then Fortier. Then Dumbass Day. And then, with all that ammo., SHarper.

I find it almost amusing that a few commentators have made note of the fact that the Emerson move is receiving "support" from important quarters of B.C.

...Why look! Even Liberal (not liberal) Premier Campbell has endorsed Emerson's move, as has B.C.s business community.

And look! BOTH Vancouver dailies have editorally endorsed Emerson's newfound Conservatism!(This, of course,only means that phone calls came down from the twin godfathers of the Asper gang in Winnipeg to editorial offices of their Vanc. papers ordering an editorial whitewash of Emerson).

Harper says putting Emerson in his cabinet "gives Vancouver and B.C. a voice".

The Emerson appointment surely HAS raised the voices of the regular volken of BC and especially of Van-Kingsway riding.

But their voices are screaming every profanity
and obscenity so to match the perceived obscenity of this ultra-cynical move by "Harperson" (two peas in a pod).

That Emerson now says he's "flabbergasted" by
storm of protest leaves me flabbergasted.
It shows that Emerson is self-important and out of touch beyond belief. He thinks he's an Aristocrat.

The appointment of Emerson to the Harper cabinet speaks volumes about the characters of both Harper and Emerson. Harper is clearly hypocritical. He is also deluded as he thinks that this appointment gives him representation in Vancouver. One wonders what other democratic delusions the guy has?

Emerson, however, is a different matter. If the decision to switch parties was made after election day, he is a dishonest fool and should be excused from polite society. If he considered or worse decided to work for the winner, regardless of who that was, prior to election day, then he has committed fraud. In effect, if he ran as a Liberal, encouraged people to give him time (as volunteers), money or votes promising that he was a Liberal, when he, in fact, he had no intention of remaining a Liberal if the party lost, then he was taking this time, money and votes under false pretenses.

It is like writing a cheque with no money in the bank, applying for a job with false statements on one's resume, or mortgaging someone else's house.

Martin has a point when he talks about the politics of representation and Burke's legacy. But I doubt that even Burke would think that such trickery, possibly, fraud upon the public, was within the domain of an elected officials' for an act of conscience.

What is needed is an investigation - possibly by the police into when and how Mr. Emerson was persuaded to leave the Liberals. Protests and recalls are important on a political level, but he may also have taken money under false pretenses for that he should go to jail.

Sorry I meant to refer to McMartin's (not Martin's) referral to Burke.

BC Mary
No question you can get rid of Emerson. In fact, that may already be happening. One could hardly expect him to keep taking this kind of abuse for long.
But, let's say you do get him to resign (I'd wager he'd never submit to the electorate again) so that would be the end of it and he'd go back to corporate nirvana and clip coupons.

Harper would make a long-winded justification of why he'd asked Emerson to serve and then we'd go back to business as usual. And he probably try to find a way to blame it on Ujahl Dosanj and the Liberals. I agree that we need fundamental change to remake the way we select our political servants and I'm all in favour of doing whatever's necessary to move toward that kind of change. I just feel that focusing too narrowly on David Emerson as the 'author' of this debacle is confusing the symptom for the disease.

I don't quite know how to start pressing for some real effective change since most of the people who have the power to influence that change have a conflict - they're politicians and they have a vested interest in the staus quo. I think too much righteous anger expended in Emerson's direction is unwise tactically and it's wasteful. I don't have an alternative at this moment but that's how I feel.

If you asked me I'd suggest that even if you do manage to get Emerson dumped that this effort may well never amount to anything more than a bunch of fevered blogging on sites like this.

That's a shame, in my opinion. That's all. I'm all for practical solutions - I just don't think we've found one yet.

At least Dumbass Day had enough integrity to put a mortgage on his house and repay the Albertans for the money he lost as a result of calling people queer. But Emerson the Grifter won't pay back the grass roots supporters who got him elected on his fraudulant promises. An MP's salary of 150 grand won't cut it. He needs a minister's salary. Perhaps he's not as well heeled as people give him credit. Or maybe he's just a Pig.

G West-I have to tell you I sure like your enthusiasm. Can you box? I am having a hard time responding because I kind of find myself cheering for you at the same time.

To the emails directed to me. I'm a conservative activist, not a business sychophant. Go to my polling site and see my latest on real estate fraud in BC at robbinssceresearch.com

I can honestly tell you that there probably isn't anyone in politics who actually likes me, which I take as a good sign. BC Mary is correct. There is a time and a place for a weapon of choice, but you lad I would send you out of the bunker first armed to the pectorals with weapons. You are my kind of soldier.

Listen it isn't fair to Mr. Campbell, Mr. Reynolds or Mr. Harper to link them to me. My polling firm has been very hard on Mr. Campbell
and he has never complained, nor has any of his caucus complained too much. Glen Clarke's government with that toejammer Dosanjh litigated the hell out me for muckraking-

I barely know Mr. Reynolds but what I do know of him... I admit I like him. He is and always has been a big league player and he will use his elbows and fight if he has to.

So will I, so maybe that's the attraction, but I admit it. Mr. Reynolds should run for Premier as a BC Conservative. Okay I've said it. Also, the last time I saw John I was coming out of Troll's seafood restaurant and the food was so good I was extra pleased-so maybe thats why I like John Reynolds.

Mr. Harper I like too. But I also like(d) Paul Martin, and Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe. Everyone who knows me understands that I have been equally mean to everyone, but to be honest, whether in government or not and in this climate of mistrust, I think this is without question the most talented Parliament in our history. Go to Federal government, and cobble together the CV's.

All that has to happen this time around is for all the parties to really organize on coordinated efforts at least for eighteen months-and get some really good work done-before muckraking.

Now GWest-your just the person I wanted to see.
From what you have said you should be delighted. I mean doesn't Jack Layton look pretty good right now? In BC, I must tell you I have never voted NDP. But it is my opinion at this point in time....(and remember me and Gordon Adair knocked off no-fault insurance)-I've been attacked and run out of a multi-million dollar business for my muckraking efforts)-so I've been around a few of these-but this BC NDP Opposition-man for woman-is the best caucus in the country right now and Adrian Dix (smeared by all before the last election) has on his own-beat up the entire BC Liberal Party. On his own.

Don't fight Emerson-help the NDP or the Green Party who hasn't had a chance to double deal.
They could use your talents dude!

BC Mary: Just FYI, Day's ministry isn't just the back half of Anne McLellan's job. He's also in charge of the RCMP/CSIS, which used to be under the Ministry of the Solicitor General (now abolished). Still scary, but not underemployed, at least.

That Emerson now says he's "flabbergasted" by
storm of protest leaves me flabbergasted.
It shows that Emerson is self-important and out of touch beyond belief. He thinks he's an Aristocrat.

Yes, my other favorite is that quote about Emerson becoming "disillusioned" with politics.

He's" disillusioned?

That cracks me up.

The Dog Salmon...

We promised: “At The Tyee you'll find investigative reporting no one else is doing, and fresh viewpoints from all over B.C.”

You are viewing the 20 most recent stories in Views
Emerson: The Power and the Tory His betrayal, his perks and some context for the outrage.
ByÂ*Will McMartin [Thursday, 09 Feb 2006]

Moral Thunder from Mr. Emerson'Blatantly opportunistic' and other names he's called Conservatives.
ByÂ*Jonathan Ross [Wednesday, 08 Feb 2006]

Emerson's Jump: 'Immoral' and 'Cynical'Even old political hands Mair and Schreck are queasy.
ByÂ*Rafe Mair and David Schreck [Tuesday, 07 Feb 2006]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

MORE EMERSON SLEAZE

A Softwood deal with the US was essentially completed under the Libs before the election.
Emerson convinced the Libs to delay its finalizing and announcement till after the election.
The supposed reasoning was the deal was good but not perfect.In it, Canada makes concessions that some BC interests might have complained about during the campaign, potentially hurting the Libs.

Now, Emerson under Harper will pretend to go into tough negotiations which most certainly will be successful (since they essentially were completed weeks ago and only need signatures).

"Harperson" will triumphantly announce the "Cons gov't-U.S." agreement shortly.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1139439013294&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

squishy: Yeah, thanks, I forgot to mention: Dumbass is in charge of all Public Safeguards.

I was just listening to CBC Newsworld's roundtable discussion amongst political reporters: Jim Travers, Susan Bonner, Julie van Dusen, and Greg Watson, and all agreed that the Conservative government is in total chaos. They gave details. It's a bunch of clowns let loose in the candy shop.

What a comfort, thinking of Stockwell Day, Minister of All that's Holy, on guard for thee. And me.

seems that we agree the libs were assholes, and the cons are proving no better!
choosing the least evil is not an option anymore!
i see many asking : "what to do?"
the answer is NDP!
yes it could be that the very poor would wind up with a decent wage then, but is that so bad?
At least there will be no friends of the elite sucking up in government then!
maybe the issues can be dealt with on the basis of what makes sense, not what friends need a new contract!
there is a solution!
grab it before we all go to hell in a handbasket!

There's actually a ray of hope of justice prevailing in the Emerson case. According to Constitutional expert Ted McWhinney, the Commons
can vote to expel any member!
All we need is a majority of opposition votes to turf Prince David out on his ear - expelled!
From:http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=5de50732-8ff0-4a5c-9efb-5a21c28f1ffb&p=2
"Constitutional expert and lawyer Ted McWhinney says Emerson's use of that money was perfectly legal and the MP has delivered, in that he appeared on the ballot as a Liberal candidate.
That said, while it would be a first, a Canadian citizen and constituent in Vancouver-Kingsway potentially could try to retrieve the funds through the Federal Court.

'There is a credible claim to challenge Emerson's right to continue as an MP', McWhinney says, noting that ballots for years have listed the candidate's party affiliation.
The Commons also can collectively make a decision to expel any member, notes McWhinney, himself a former Liberal MP in Vancouver-Quadra.

Interestingly, four members of the new Harper cabinet voted in the last Parliament for a private member's bill to halt floor-crossings without a byelection: Carol Skelton, Rona Ambrose, Diane Finley and Bev Oda.

Emerson differs from those who've crossed in the past in that he did so immediately after his election and there was no policy matter or issue of conscience involved.
[...]

and if Gloomy is right then we end up in the lefty nuthouse paradise and the bureaucracy wins!

no NDP is not the solution.

the solution is to get us all out from under the domination of Ottawa, the dominion of canada was interesting for a century or so, but not viable over the long term.

when PQ starts its referendum, we need to agitate for other provincial referendums on the same subject : separation.

our own sovrenity is at stake and further subservience to the 'power' in ottawa is a waste.

Oh, Murdock, didn't I tell you to take a flying leap off the back of the Spirit of British Columbia right near the Mayne Island light-house?

Don't vote NDP? Break up Canada, on a cue from the Parti Quebecois? That's your solution to the Emerson problem? Write "sovereignty" 100 times.

When you come up for air, I vote you off my island. Please, just go, before I get really, really annoyed.

I noticed in the paper today the vast difference in campaign donations received by the cons versus the libs (about 2 to 1, 18 mill to 9 mill if I remember correctly)
Hmmmm, someone with deep pockets seemed to want the cons to win the election. I wonder what these generous donors expect in return.
(hint: for clue look to 6 years worth of kafka-esque legislation enacted by certain stupid gargoyle-like puppet from place not too far from here! eg. so called "clean air" act which actually allows more pollutants in atmosphere to favor bottom-line of campaign donors. Also massive cuts across board to social infastructure in favor of massive(trillions) influx of taxpayer money to so-called "industrial military complex.)
Re our sneakily orchestrated inclusion to combat in Afghanistan already today there are three more injured canucks! Good thing our own guy on CBC just said it's prime road-side bomb and ambush country!!
Whats next I wonder?
Perhaps a 4 a.m. knock-knock on my door for writing this blog?

Bobb999

Not surprised Ted McWhinney would weigh in with some sage advice as an expert in parliamentary procedure; he's become a kind of latter day Eugene Forsey lately but you have to be more than 30 years old or a real student of politics to know what that means. It's good stuff for a 30 second clip on the National or a letter to the G&Mail but not much use other than that.

But really, none of that matters. Harper's counting on this blowing over in a week or two if he can keep Emerson from tearing up his ticket and going back to the private sector.

As I've said before Emerson isn't the real problem, in my mind. The real problem is that Harper appears to have got to be PM on false premises because he either doesn't believe what he's said or didn't say what he believed. That's not news but it is reality - to borrow a phrase!

He got some really bad advice (I'm guessing) that this Emerson gambit was a good idea. In fact, maybe it is a good idea and maybe David Emerson is the smartest guy in the building as some others have said but his timing was godawful and he doesn't seem to have anybody but John Reynolds to put the case to the plebs and Reynolds isn't the guy for the job, in my view.

Venting your anger at Emerson is fun, but it's not productive - what's really wrong has very little to do with him.

My guess is Emerson won't take it for much longer but we shall see.

Fun? G. West, you've said yourself that you don't know what to do about this situation. Well, here's a clue. It'd be just as productive (more so, in fact) if you stopped knocking those who are honestly trying to do something.

You're worried that Emerson might quit soon? That's kind of interesting.

ROBBINS Sce Research

Can't quite see where you've found all the talent in the caucus but I suppose that's another discussion. If it were true then why the heck would the party need Emerson so badly. They actually looked like quite a bunch of sheep on Newsworld a couple of hours ago but maybe that was just biased editing, who knows?

Anyway, I don't have any connections to Jack and the NDP either - just call me a free thinker.

Didn't mean to imply you were in anybody's pocket but you must have suspected I knew what you did for a living - or for fun as the case may be. I'd be interested to know what your polling shows right now actually. As to the connections with John Reynolds - I won't hold it against you that you eat at the same restaurants from time to time. I'm sure he's a nice guy to have a beer with but I wouldn't want him as a neighbour - I lived beside a guy like John for a while and he was always borrowing things and never bringing them back - in fact sometimes he lent them to 'his' friends - and whenever I tried to talk to him he had this awful habit of throwing his big arm over my shoulder. I didn't like it much but that's just me.

This is going to be interesting. I'd say Harper has to get somebody else out there spinning for him pretty soon or the NDP is going to get some nasty ideas about how to turn this to their advantage, eh! And Peter McKay won't do the trick either. Who would you suggest? Stockwell or Monte? Looks like Gordon's a bit busy in Victoria right now too!

Murduck:
even if we seperate, just look at what Gordo is doing here!
no matter how you slice it, the cons and libs only look after their own high elite friends, unless you have a few millions in the bank, they are not your friends, so the advice stands NDP!
we are stuck with red tape and endless procedures no matter who tries to run a democracy! but Perhaps Harper is aiming to eliminate democracy too?

Why should anyone be surprised that Emersonary moved his digs to a bordello that caters to a clientele with higher standards?

Coming home from work I hear on the news that "Mr. I won`t merge the PC with the Alliance" McKay takes a strong stand -he says that Emerson isn`t legally bound to resign his seat. As my uncle used to say about politics "watch out for the next one". How true. We have really got a bunch this time!

BC Mary
Gosh! I'm really sorry I used the word fun cause you've taken it as criticism of you. It's not. I completely understand where you're coming from and I sympathize with what you're saying and trying to do. I just think that all that emotion and energy would be better used against a more systemic target, that's all. Without some kind of direction and some sort of effective leadership I think that popular movements have a way of fizzling out and I can think of dozens of examples.

You see I think the government is counting on that, in fact I think they allowed for it when they made the decision to try and encourage Emerson's defection. I don't know how many days they've allotted for public anger to burn itself out but I'm certain they did.

I just think that noble motives ought to come to a better end and I wish I knew how to make that happen. There will always be another David Emerson, if you really want to be more involved in making this country a place where your views count for more than a pocketful of loose change every four years then I think another approach is well-advised.

Let's assume that Emerson resigns, or (and I doubt he'd do this), he agrees to a byelection. Everybody heaves a sigh of relief and claps each other on the back and we go back to what passes for normal. Nothing's changed. That's what I'm trying to point out - that's all. I think there may be a way to channel this outrage in a different way and actually make this the last time a Stephen Harper and a David Emerson (or a Paul Martin and a Belinda Stronach for that matter) get together in private and decide what's 'best' for you and all your fellow citizens.

People have right to be offended. They've just gone through an 8 week campaign where the leader of the party that won did nothing but spout platitudes about accountability and fighting courruption. Two weeks after the election that same leader makes a morally challenged and arguably corrupt decision that indicates not a single thing he said during the campaign meant a damn thing to him - why wouldn't people be pissed? It's outrageous. But if the only solution is to send Emerson to the woodshed I don't think it's been a very positive outcome and I'd expect this government to let you down again sooner rather than later.

And it's not really their fault, we just keep letting them do it to us by putting up with a system that didn't work well in the 19th century let alone the 21st. In my opinion it's time to stop it -- once and for all.

As my uncle used to say about politics "watch out for the next one"

"A change of government is the joy of fools"

My business manager's name is Jim Van Rassell, he owns NewTrend Optical.(604) 942-9300. He won't ever tell me who requests a poll-. All clients are kept anonymous-.

On hot subjects-we help out a little.

GWest-I said the BC NDP had an excellent caucus man for woman, and said Adrian Dix was very impressive.

I said I think despite what is going on there are alot of people in Parliament-all parties that should be pretty good, if they don't dick around.

ROBBINS Sce Research
Don't even disagree about the talent thing - I know you said 'parliament' and not party just think the Cons caucus is looking really bad right now and I bet, if you tell the truth, you agree.

As for the Provincial NDP caucus, after that debacle over MLA salaries, I ain't so sure. I know she's a rookie leader but that was really baaad!
Aidrian Dix I won't cavil over.

What am I supposed to do with the phone number - I thought you posted your results or is there a whole other level of inquiry that doesn't appear there?

nice piece will...been to busy soaking up the sun to peruse the logs and blogs so i leave it at that.

Even with the average voter/sheep's short memory span, the conservatives will have to orchestrate considerable PR in order to have a chance at governing long term IMO! Talk about handing the opposition live ammunition on the opening days of battle.

Watch for more Tail-Wagging-the-Dog press to soothe and coerce the masses. You can hear the PR firms cash registers stepping up in volume as vested interests begin shelling out serious $$$ to keep the new ship afloat!

Maybe Bush can throw Harper another treat like the "Harper Stands Up for Artic Sovereignty" story - lol - Or perhaps, taking credit for a Softwood Lumber resolution, as someone suggested, might help return some of the once dim glow.

Ain't life grand - lol

Bobb999: Nice sleuthing. Thats a good T Star post.

Emerson is a traitor, no question about it. After reading Bobbs post, and knowing what I know about Emersons history...

You all want to know how we spend our tax dollars? Take a peak at this report on timber resources across the entire province of B.C. et. el, wood volumes, who's corporately hot, who's not, mill numbers, whats left to cut, everything is in this report. It was done for the BC Trade development Corporation of which he was then president in 1991, 1992.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/D...021/RC021_3.pdf

This website contains the report with information on forest industry prepared for our "honorable" David Emerson and explains how and why our "honorable" David Emerson got so rich with Canfor. He had intel no one else had.

It reminds me of university professors who get genious from the odd student only to take it to the markets to pad their wallets with untold millions. Its the same conflict of interest we allow even now, unknowingly....

Honorable Emerson had intel that only a few were privy to as deputy finance minister of BC in 1984.
It was no mistake that led him to the only survivor as President and CEO of the Western and Pacific Bank of Canada in Vancouver (now the Canadian Western Bank after he successfully merged his bank with another one to make a killing in shares. This is where he made millions and moved right back to Goverment for more.

As some will recall, the BC Trade development Corporation was a big part of the Federal Liberal trade missions back in the 90's. Remember those? There were all kinds of reports done on our resources here and what we had to offer. Honorable Emerson sat on information few had anywhere in the world with this region.

His involvement with banks and Canfor, and the Vancouver airport were all about money. Honorable David Emerson has been a Fed government researcher since 1974. His intel through to the 80's led him here and its no surprise that his background, his ambitions and his dealings have made him a millionaire many times over, and at the taxpayers expense, as this is about as blatant a conflict of interest as it gets.

Honorable Emerson's directorships included : Teresen Inc, Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Company of Canada; Vice-Chairman of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives; Chair, British Columbia Ferry Services Inc.; and Chairman and Director of Genus Resource Management Technologies Inc.

Each directorship relates to what he knew from government intel, and reflects where these same corporations headed.

He was right on top of coordinated market research and drafted major reports on the food industry in China, drafted energy sector briefing notes used by Premier Harcourt during Team Canada’s 1995 trade mission to China, with follow up to identify energy projects suitable for pursuit by BC companies.
Why did he have a chinese vote? Ever heard the slogan "vote for the Republicans, their good for business." Honorable David Emerson was synomymous with this term in Chinese, only it was "vote for the Liberal, good for Business".

Honorable David Emerson has enough intel on Gateway, Whistler, RAV and as Bobb999 has pointed out, the US/Canada softwood lumber dispute to make millions more. It should be no secret as to how many conflicts of interest Emerson really has. He's dirty. Emerson, as smart as he is, is only out for himself, and Harper is even worse. Hypocrite traitors...

Power - maybe....

Money - no....Emerson made millions in salary and stock options at Canfor.

OK, listen...now I know this will be hard for some of you who are frothing at the mouth here, but let's all just slow down for a moment and think about this.

I don't support MP's jumping ship, and this is no different than Stronach or Brison or any of the other many defections throughout history. I can't say I look at Emerson and say "good job", but I also look at it realistically...

HOWEVER, let's just, for a moment, look at what this means for BC...

1) Emerson is a high profile, high power individual;

2) Like it or not, he has acheived more than the majority of us on this board have or will by being the CEO of a major corporation as well as gov't experience - the man has an unbelievable resume!

3) His going to the Conservatives will not only achieve more for the riding, but for everyone in BC by putting another BC seat in cabinet;

4) This is about BC - this is good for the province

So I say, yes, this isn't what you'd call a optimal situation, but let's let reason rule for a minute...

I say let's do the unthinkable, and give him a chance. Let's see what he does - does he shed the "Liberal values" or does he incorporate them into performing for his riding as a Conservative. Remember, he doesn't necessarily have to vote with the party in the house.

.

I agree with brain, "nice sleuthing", Bobb999.

The ever shrill Pia Shandel was just on CBC's "The Hour" with George S. cheerleading for Emerson and saying exactly what you predicted... that Emerson and only Emerson can close the softwood lumber deal. She was just about doing back-flips for him and the Harper team.

I (we) poll mostly for clients. We have subsidized some polls. Most clients don't want to be named because we don't play in the establishment (by choice), they don't want to get harassed. Originally, we played the game and named our sponsor-but I realized these rules were made for the someone else's benefit.

I have been offered lots of money by lots of people who were (I determined) looking for spin. Anybody who knows me, and my business manager is as cold as a killer when it comes to ethics, I had to resolve client's need for anonymity, with the assurance that the poll was without bias. The answer was NewTrend-who also puts up for many polls, simply because he likes what we are doing-and understands why we are doing it.

I really got pissed when I saw that we were trying to be very good at what we were doing, and be different, or slightly entertaining, and when we told it like it was, the crap we would get for interfering with 'the game' got my back up, so I said screw em all-and decided if it looked political and deserved killing than that was my job.

My partners liked all of this but knew we had to move a little toward the mainstream without becoming the Go-Go's. I suppose its a little like rock n roll.

Also, I have a background in business, but I needed to resolve the focus of being as ethical as I could be in the polling, with a clear objective to be accurate. We are getting better and better at polling, but realize we cannot move on the business model until (the establishment) itself modernizes (no time to explain).

So we see ourselves a little like Tom Waites 'Downtown Train' not Rod Stewart's, and its cool. I have some pretty impressive people (I think) helping me out with alot of what we do, and age has taught me when to shut up and listen (its true).

I have some pretty impressive named people whisper things to me, but more importantly I have 'regular' people, like those we call, and when I am out in the community who give me some tremendous pieces of information. The real estate poll we just did had professors, bankers, real estate people all helping out. They didn't like what they were seeing, and these folks were doing this for the right thing, not for revenge.

I am having such a great time and finding out that an awful lot of people have had their opinions stifled, or been forced to keep mum in order to keep their jobs. That's no good. My wife isn't happy about it, but understands you can't stop someone who believe in what they are doing.

I have admitted to knowing some folks in the U.S. but I have disclosed that generally, and I think at the end of the day, I haven't compromised what I have intended to do which is advance public opinion. Yes, I knew my U.S. clients wanted the Conservatives to win the election, I set it up where the data collection could NOT be comprised, and the commentary was really a mixed bag of the prevailing journalism, public comments, blogs-you name it. We just took the picture and they came out pretty good.

An Emerson poll is important, however there are so many 'people' running in every direction (not just on the Tyee) that I can't tell if this is going to last a day or go on for a year. It really is absolute political chaos. As a 'watcher' of the body political this dog is going into some major contortions over this thing.

I think that after listening to Accountability, Gomery, on and on-winter election-change etc. the fact that this happened for whatever reason has baffled people, some angry, some who think its okay, some who are not pleased but to tired to do anything about it, some who are just concerned that taxpayer money doesn't get stolen etc., but the number of people who are uncomfortable or are deferring their response, or who are so pissed that they just don't want to think about it has created an environment which will be better to read in a few days to a week.

Poindexter ...
"I don't support MP's jumping ship, and this is no different than Stronach or Brison or any of the other many defections throughout history."

- - - - Actually I think this Emerson crossing is quite different and that's what got everyone twisted about this issue:

1) It came not on any matter of confidence or voting issue, but on a cozy job offer from the Prime Minister ... and according to the Ethics ccommission/CBC/CTV reported this evening, this may potentially be a breech of ethical conduct by the PM and emerson.

2) It shows complete lack of respect for any cooling off period after much election and prior history berating of the conservatives by
emerson.

3) It shows etreme lack of sensitivity to the efforts and support from his constituents, to cross immediately after the election, on nothing more than a self centered job offer!

Hi claims of doing this to be in the best position to serve, rings very hollow and I doubt very few buy, other than those standing to gain by being in his corner, support this argument in the least!

.

Uh, yes you do..and you even numbered the reasons.

.

Now that's integrity for you.... and highly dysfunctional in a multi-personality sort of way.

My sources tell me that the softwood deal isn't getting done-but I suppose I could be wrong, but my sources are good, very good and I doubt it.

However it is not my current job to work on softwood-I just don't believe its in the works, but either Pia and the others are full of it and spinning interference to buy time, or a deal is done.

How long would you wait to announce this if it were done given the present political situation with Emerson?

Good God, what was I thinking?!?!? Tyee readers opening their minds and seeing a different perspective?

Uh, thanks Lynn, for pointing out absolutely nothing.

Unlike the other floor crossings, I see some reasons in this one that could be POSITIVES for our province and thought I'd try to point them out...but positives don't seem to be the strong suit on this site.

"In 16-36 months they will come back to the polls and re-elect this turncoat...."

Want to make a bet on that one? LOL! There is no way that Emerson would ever be elected as a Conservative in that riding. And, there is no way that he will ever get back his seat now no matter what party he ran for. He won't run in the next election, that is for sure.

The real sad thing about this is all the people that will be turned off going to the polls next time. If this stuff is allowed, what is the point in voting? Everything that Emerson said about the Conservatives running up to the election must have been BS. Who would trust him now?

Most surprising was his belief that no one would say anything to his kids. Other 12 and 14 year-olds don't live in bubbles - some of them know what's going on. What do you think happened to Glen Clark's kids after the raid on his house? What you do as a public figure is going to effect your whole family. You'd think he would have atleast thought of the fallout this decision would have and the effect it would have on his family. Too full of himself to see anything past his own needs I guess.

To get rid of this clown, people have to keep up the pressure. I don't think Emerson has what it takes to endure a long campaign against him. Watch the Liberals to start leaking stuff about him. The federal Liberals should have atleast learned that from Campbell. If Emerson is allowed to get away with this, democracy in Canada could very well be at stake.

I'd have emerson lay low, scurry around and look like he's working his ass off for his beloved constituents for the next week. Then, when this 'crossing' fenzy starts to show signs of losing steam, he quietly pops up
... seen shaking hands and smiling modestly as credible PR points that even during his exhausting schedule, and in the midst of such stress, he was still able to finalize the day saving deal, and pull the Softwood Rabbit from hat.

Que the Minister of External Affairs congratulating emerson for a job well done!

Que US ambassador looking glumly into his lap -

Canadians applaud -

Camera - action!

if you guys took your eyes off the screen and watched the news you would know that Emerson and Harper both are in a heap of trouble now!
The old Grewall affair demontrates that anyone offering an incentive to cross the floor is in violation of the law!
Harper could loose his seat folks!

Gloomy ... yes...

... don't know who's advising Harper on this, but it's clear they're wading hip deep now!

Amazing!

.

"POSITIVES" at the expense of this country, at the expense of democracy.

Poindexter, I'm not interested in what this means for BC alone...there are nine other provinces and three territories that comprise this country as well.

This is an abuse of democracy and an abuse of the people of Canada's democratic rights.

The self-interests of BC are not more important than our democratic rights as Canadian citizens.

Sure gloomy, I saw that, and it struck me as a desperate attempt by a desperate loser to stir the pot a bit more.

I mean, Waddell couldn't even speak straight, he was so excited and foamed up like a good little socialist (not unlike, I'm sure, a lot of posters on this site would be in real life, I might add)

But I guess the NDP is used to being the unofficial opposition.

Hey, if you can't form gov't, might as well whine lots!

Yes Lynn, we're on the brink of dictatorship, I know, I know.

It's only in BC, where the vocal minority of whiny left wingers reside, that this is such an issue.

I don't like this any more than the other defections, but the only reason it is such an issue is because it's the Conservatives, and all the NDPers and socialists are pissed off and looking for any chance to try to chip away at that. Only in BC.

I see how Emerson could lose his "seat", and I have a hard time to believe that Emerson would have the balls to try and pull this off. but I don`t see how Harper could lose his seat.

Glen,
On the softwood thing, who knows? I think it may be way too late for smoke and mirrors on this file. Couldn't one do a riff on that line from Hamlet, how does it go?
Thrift, thrift Horatio! The funeral bak'd meats Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables...
I wonder if Mr Harper may soon be saying:
Would I had met my dearest foe in heaven
Or ever I had seen that day, Horatio!

You're right, time will tell! Interesting though how much of the media appears to have drunk the koolade don't you think?

I'd still like to see that poll.

juskatladude writes:

I am reminded of the PT Barnum line about a sucker being born every minute.

I'll bet Harper is reaching for his puffer/inhaler/steroidal gear about now!

Hey, in case anyone thinks this is a low blow, it's not, it's an enlightened observation ;)

Asthma usually flares up under stress and Harper is Asthmatic.

= = = =

"I'm going to be Stephen Harper's worst enemy. We're going to stir the pot and you better believe we are going to make a heck of a lot of noise."

-- David Emerson, on election night, when he was elected as a Liberal.

Yeah they usually vote NDP though.

poindexter

Surely you jest! To imply that this aberration, coming as it does and when it does from the white knight of accountability and political ethics is nothing more than a partisan pas de deux by Liberals and Socialists is utter nonsense. If you actually read some of the posts here (as well as the articles to which they are appended) you couldn't say that, in my opinion.

Our Honorable David Emerson of Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics (I believe they shorted the ministry name to make it less obvious) makes the Conservatives AND the Liberals look bad not just on a federal level, but here in this province. Too often, for too long, have we taken CEO's from private life and elected them into public office with the same blind rhetoric... "HE knows what hes doing!"

David Emerson went from elected public servant to CEO and back to elected public servant again, and then CEO, and then back to public service AGAIN!!! To do it once is shame on him. To do it twice, is shame on us. To do it three times, is just plain friggin' stupid. If we don't learn from this, we've learned nothing as voters and journalists alike about what is truly destroying this country. There should be legislation to prevent this even if it means amending the constitution and again, I don't anything but hypocracy coming from our Honorable Stephen Harper.

Look at Harpers appointments more closely:

Bobb999,'s post link in the Toronto star says it all with our Honorable David Emerson's appointment. Emerson's prior political and corporate history says it all in how slow we were to ever put this man in public office to begin with.

Is Harper dirty? Check the links

http://www.morefreedom.org/
Nothing speaks like Harpers favorite. Check out campaigns...

http://www.answers.com/topic/nation...izens-coalition

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/15/ncc031015

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2003/n27ja03a.htm
This one has some interesting links.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020802.../new_page_3.htm
These links are excellent.

One of my favorites. Good old history, but its a cut and paste.

http://www.stephenharpersaid.ca/pdf/ncc.pdf#search='www.national%20citizens%20coalitio n'

Who is senator Fortier? The second appointed banker that no one voted for knowingly to sit on the Conservative cabinet. Why? Fortier is a party organizer who had worked on Harper's 2004 campaign for the leadership of the Conservative party and went on to co-chair the party's national campaigns in 2004 and 2006. Harper has said he took the unusual action of appointing a non-elected person to cabinet in order to have a Montreal representative at the cabinet table.

Fact is Fortier would never have won in Montreal in his lifetime. He ran twice before, coming in forth and third. Harpers appointment couldn't make him look more like a hypocrite than anything else he's done.

Who is President of Treasury Board - John Baird?
Served as Conservative Ontario co-chair during 2004 election; was Ontario co-chair for Stephen Harper's leadership campaign. Served as co-chair of Jim Flaherty's Ontario PC leadership campaign. Youngest delegate to 1985 Provincial Leadership Convention. Founder of a special political recruitment program for students. 1988-Pres of PC Youth Wing. Served on provincial executive for two years
Provincial: Elected in Nepean in 1995; in Nepean-Carleton in 1999, 2003 provincially.

He's one of Mike Harris's with larger ambitions after the Harris regime failed. He is noted for more than a billion in medicare spending on what was supposed to be on equipment, end up as funding private clinic startups that went mysteriously broke instead, with nothing to show for the money.

Who is Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform - Robert Nicholson?

He's a lawyer from the Mulroney era, voting for all of those wonderful Mulroney policies from 84 and 88 terms, with a similar previous historical background. If anyone has been following Mulroney's bribes lately... tell me what kind of man sues his country for 50 mil after supposedly serving it for ten years? A guy who takes bribes and kick backs, thats who.

Minister of Finance - James Flaherty.

Just another lawyer anyone decent who knows him, doesn't like. There's plenty of dirt on Jim with his Harris government.

Minister of Defence - Gordon O'Connor.
Gordon O'Connor is a retired general military equipment lobbiest. This is another scandal waiting to happen if Harpers government is in any way sucessful.

Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency - Peter MacKay. He is on record countless times over the years for roasting the government over continuing investigations on Mulroney... uh, care to comment now, Peter? People better start asking where his daddy got all that money.

Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Federal Interlocutor for Metis and Non-Status Indians - Jim Prentice.

Yup! Ripping up the Kelowna agreement won't be easy. Thats why they need a Calgary lawyer who has a background as a Commissioner of the Indian Claims Commission of Canada for 10 years. In case anyone's wondering, he didn't represent native claims... he was on the other side of that fence.

Minister of Citizenship and Immigration - Monte Solberg.
Anyone who follows this racist's blogs from Medicine Hat should know where this is going to lead.

Stockwell Day... Gary Lunn... Maxime Bernier... Vic Toews... Tony Clement...
All in all, anyone who cares to look at the links I've provided will easily see that is government is on the self interested take, a ragtag bunch of U.S. corporate sellouts that if anyone thinks isn't dangerous, will have another thing coming. Its all about intel, folks. Emerson should have schooled us plenty on this one.

This minority government has more taps on intel that are going south and corporate, than ever before. We were fools to think that we needed this kind of change, but now that we see the cabinet (there's only a handful that are there to actually serve our country) we would be complete idiots to not see the errors of our ways.

Chris H writes:

Well Chris H, Emerson's own kids do not live in a bubble either. They know full well what daddy is up to. Whether or not they care is another matter. If Emerson truly was surprised by this, I doubt he is a smart an operator as his financial backers want us to believe. He would not be the first photogenic moron to shill for the elites.

I would be more interested to know why Emerson would do such a thing, publicly, and expect that his kids would not be caught in the crap storm he created. That is either stupidity, or terminal hubris.

One other point; Harper will need to call in all the MSM markers he has to put this behind him. But, I don't think even the Global/Canwest sycophants can pull this one out. Canadians are used to politicians taking a couple of terms to go rotten. Harper will not be forgiven for stinking the place up right out of the gate.

Wallace

True that, Wallace. Did you see Pia Shandel on The Hour?

I want to see what BC Mary looks like:

when really, really annoyed.

Look the reality is that Emerson got a plum job, suckered the electorate which I am really enjoying seeing the Van-Kingsway people froth up and get into a lather over something that they cannot stop; and will likely serve out his term in this parliament before trotting off into dim (public) memory.

The need for separation is only highlighted by the total lack of accountability we can have in the oversized system we have inherited//designed from the 'family compact' days. Until we collectively wake up from the walking nightmare that is servitude, umm citizenship in canada then we will continue to see more and more of the performances like this from our so-called elected officials.

As I said before about the swim in active pass....ladies first!

jesterjogger inquires:

Only if Sejanus says it must be so...

Gloomy wonders:

oops! too late!

the canadian system did that long ago when senators could be appointed at whim, ad infinitum; by guess who ---> THE PRIME MINISTER!

G West observes:

Very much the same sentiments that started the Bloc Quebecois, unfortunately others go ahold of that movement and turned it into a negotiating committee.

How to stop it?

What is your solution?

I think the BQ currently and Helmcken from BC's past have and had it right.

What's the problem? In the corporate old boy's world betraying your peers, screwing your workers and sycophancy are rewarded acceptable practice. Why is anyone surprised Emerson sees nothing wrong with what he's done.

for lynn,

the CBC is now in a battle for its lifeblood, they were toadying for the LiEberals before, now they will toady for the CONformers.

Same sh*t different smell.

Murdock, you sound like the guy they get to follow the circus through town. The one with the wide shovel.

The outrage, by people who appreciate the tenuous link between voting and being a part of a democratic society, in my mind, is directed correctly at one David Emerson.

That John Reynolds would undercut democratic will to achieve a goal doesn't surprise me and I do think Stephen Harper will be held accountable, at the next election coming to a polling booth near you sometime soon.

The only pleasure, if you can call it such, I get from this whole ugly situation is to hear Emerson's buddy- 'til recently, Ujjal ("well that was yesterday") whining about how sleezy his ol' pal turned out to be for hopping on a
flag of convenience.

Imagine, a few years ago you were the premier and today you're backbencher in opposition and all those people in Ontario who donated to your election campaign realize suddenly you're of no help any longer.

Gloomy, man.

Here's the question: What's it going to take to get this outfit (The Tyee) on radio?

Now there's the magic bullet!

And no more slits for eyes after hours of achieving nothing all evening but grabbing great gulps of you all before surrendering to my nightmares followed by the waking nightmare of the Cluffs and Goods of the world sucking back their sugar donut salivations during the Olympic/Corporate pornfest that is morning radio in this God-forsaken media desert.

A goodnight to you all.

Goodnight Brain....goodnight BC Mary... XOXO Lynn and Giver... Goodnight SCE Robbins whoever or whatever you are. Poindexter, thanks for dropping by. Here's your hat, what's your hurry?

gloomy exclaims:

only if the rest of the mostly ineffectual parliaments gets on their hind legs and shoves him out.

no way are the queens cowboys, the ethics puppy or the GG are gonna get involved in this one.

allan says:

sadly most independant thinkers end up with such a position.

too many others are prepared to dump on a situation without first accepting their own culpability in bringing it about.

until we collectively decide that "we're mad as hell and we're not taking it anymore!" we had better BOHICA!

I think that the LiEberals and NDP'ers frothing is much funnier than when the CONformers did it for Belinda!

Whee this has been fun!

:-P

M. Peignoir inquires:

well Rafe was on radio, 18 years at CKNW then 2 at AM600.

better would be a webcaster, willing to put up with such a cacaphony as would come on some days and next to nothing on others.

or a sponsor to maintain it?

Everyone, please beware ROBBINS Research -- this is a bogus polster. Ask around, call anyone in the media, this is a fraudulent attempt by some guy to portray himself as a reputable polling firm.

His website is full of fake polls conducted with tens of thousands of people. He has not conducted these polls. No reputable polling firm does polls on that scale. He is a fraud, pure and simple. I would urge people to ignore any of his postings, now and in the future.

I would like the Tyee to ban him.

Second point. I agree entirely with G. West. Harper is being let off the hook, leaving Emerson to soak up all the blame and attention. Funny that no one has seen fit to interview Harper on the matter, eh? All we've had so far is his one-time appearance a mere hour after his swearing in ceremony, then nothing. He's taking a leaf out of George Bush' game plan when he was first elected and is deliberately avoiding the media.

Harper's the man who got elected on the strength of his proclaimed integrity. Harper's the man who decided Emerson would become a Conservative cabinet minister. Even members of his own caucus are bewildered by this abuse of power and our democratic system. Garth Turner said virtually that late today. Even good ol' boy, Marvin Thompson publicly expressed doubt.

Yes, we want Emerson out, out with the rest of the Cons. Otherwise if we just concentrate on Emerson, Harper will get off the hook, and hang onto his power, just like Gordon Campbell did when he was convicted of drunk driving. He should have resigned on principle, and in the past that would have been a no-brainer. Not now. Now politicians have learned that if you just "tough it out" and display no shame or integrity, you can have power indefinitely.

What to do? Put as much public pressure as we can on as many fronts as we can think of. Hound our MPs, flood their Ottawa offices with emails, write letters to editors, call open lines, hell let's even get a write-in campaign going to the Governor-General. You know, there still could be a coalition formed of all the other major parties. If the will existed. Think of countries like Ukraine. Public pressure (plus American interference) turned the tables. (NO I don't want the discussion to veer off here into the merits and myriad intricacies of the Ukraine campaign -- let's stay focussed.

G. West is right when he says, sure go after Emerson, but only to get at Harper at the same time. If we kill the small fish, it kills our opportunity to put the blocks to Harper -- and Harper is the one behind the whole enchilada here. Harper has the smallest minority government ever in the history of Canada -- but he's only vulnerable if we help give the other parties some wind under their sails. We need major public pressure in every form possible, to help give the opposition parties the wherewithall to take the necessary steps to oust this abomination of a government.

Before I sign off, I repeat, beware ROBBINS Research -- this is a fraud, he's not a polster, he's masquerading as one in an attempt to give his opinions credibility. He has none. Zero. Check his website out; then contact anyone at any real media outlet. Contact several polling firms, see if they can vouch for him. Ask what his credentials are and whether he has proof of them; ask for references. Ask, ask, ask. The guy's a fraud. He's the replacement for that other irritant (can't remember his name now). You know the self-appointed Con-man Tyee poster we all came to laugh at and ultimately ignore.

Sunny Samson

Thanks for the kind words. Agree with most of what you've said although I can't support banning anyone from a public forum. It sounds too much like the kind of behavior I see all the time on certain unnamed conservative sites. I don't know whether what you say is true or not but it really doesn't matter and I'm not sure how his posting to this website adds or detracts from his credibility. In any case, I don't think that's really too germane in the present instance so lets just leave it there, entre nous at least.

As I wrote earlier, and you appear to agree with me more or less completely, I think it's important to lay the responsibility on the proper doorstep. But, I don't think the objective here is regicide any more than it is simply to return David Emerson to the warm arms of the corporate world. I guess what I'd hope to generate (and not just by a white-hot and short-lived conflagration of indignation in Vancouver) is a movement to place before this minority government a motion to change the way these rascals get elected in the first place - to bring some fresh air and real democracy and accountability into the mix. That's a good bit of the source of these problems, in my opinion, and decapitating the current party in power won't get the country there any more than forcing David Emerson to resign or run for re-election will. They are, as I've said before just symptoms and not the real disease.

I don't think this is something that will have any real chance of success if it's sponsored or taken forward by political operatives. Obviously somebody is going to have to bring it to the House of Commons somehow and this minority government may be the only time there is a real chance to do that in the near future. So, I agree with your approach, with the aforementioned exceptions, but I'd like to hear some practical ways to move in the right direction.
Cheers

What would you expect Emerson to do sit in the back benches? Once you are use to power why would you give it up? He did not join politics to become a seat warmer Ian Waddell is a professional at it but Emerson has higher ambitions for hiomself and his country. You urbanites must be very gullible to believe the liberal rhetoric on conservatives I dont see any babies being eaten. Get over it some of us want to move this province ahead we still have the 10 lost NDP years to make up.

dirtmeister

Sounds like every dictator I ever heard of. What's the problem? If you don't know why this is unethical and undemocratic then I'm more than willing to leave you to your own devices. It is, after all, still a free country and you can believe whatever you want.

dirtmeister writes:

I still say that we, in BC, have 133 lost years to 'make up for' the mistake of not listening to Helmcken and his minority report.

This little tempest in a teapot, Emerson, is only a symptom of the real malaise. The malaise is a total corruption of 'our' governance, Harper is simply working with the tools given him by the populace. It is for the other representatives of the populace to now act - for it is they that will or will not 'do the correct thing' for their own consciences.

In the end there will not likely be any consequences for this action as the LiEberals are too weary to battle again so soon, not to mention Mr. Dithers is not ready to lead. The BQists are working on their referendum and want that out of the way before any federal election and the NDP cannot force anything to happen without the other two.

Sunny Samson is dreaming in technicolor if he thinks that the Governor General will intercede in anything right now.

No.

First there must be an accounting in the House of Commons.

This means that the rest of the House must not let anything pass for the Conservatives, stand as one against everything they try.

Then the Governor General can say that the Conservatives cannot govern and call for the opposition to see if a coalition government can be formed.

Under such circumstances if you thought one MP would 'cross the floor' then get ready for dozens to do it! Especially if one group started to look like it might have any public confidence.

The GG could even turn to the BQ and say to them try to form government in a separate Quebec, without any further ado about referendum etc...

The truly interesting part about all the 'future thinking' of what may or may not come about is a 'house divided' surely must fall.

Given the mess that the CONformers already seem to be in, this may be a fall election.

murdock wrote:

How does this jibe with the accusations against Dosangh when he supposedly tried to get Grewall to cross the floor? All the Conservatools were up in arms. If it was wrong for Dosangh to do this, it's wrong for Harper.

And I'm a little perplexed at how having a BC minister means anything good for BC. He's a minister for the whole country, not just the area he's from. His concerns are national. And the Liberals actually had more western ministers than the Conservatools have.

I would like to see Emerson stand for a bye-election, but the Liberal Party constituents in Vancouver Kingsway won't be able to organize themselves to do it.

That's because this riding's Liberal consituency office accepted $90,000 from the Basi boy connected fundraising scheme in the 2004 election. So, those organizers who knew about the drug trafficking connection don't have any moral high ground to stand on when attacking Emerson.

Emerson might be a slime ball, but so are some of the constituency organizers.

Bobb999: Some more evidence that Can West is NCC funded and ideologically corrupt.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060210.wxrcanwest10/BNStory/Business

GRANT ROBERTSON
From Friday's Globe and Mail

CanWest Global Communications Corp. has launched a court challenge against federal restrictions on drug company advertising in Canada, saying the rules violate its charter rights.

In an application filed in the Ontario Superior Court, CanWest says it wants the laws governing drug advertisements overturned because they threaten freedom of expression in Canada and are unjustifiable "in a free and democratic society."

The court action, launched by the company's MediaWorks division, comes amid a lobbying effort by Canada's broadcasting, newspaper and magazine industries, which have been trying for several years to have the rules changed..

While pharmaceutical companies are allowed to advertise in Canada, they are prohibited from mentioning the drug and the illness it is designed to treat in the same commercial.

Prior to the election, the Liberal government indicated it would consider changes to the Food and Drugs Act, which includes the rules on advertisements. The Tories have suggested they will continue that process.

The regulations date back several decades and were put in place to prevent drug companies from fear-mongering or from making false claims about the effects of a particular medication.

Media companies argue the laws have spawned ads that are confusing and that Canadian companies are missing out on a lucrative market that is flourishing in the United States.

However, critics of drug advertisements say the laws must be kept in place to ensure consumers aren't exposed to overly aggressive advertising campaigns. A report prepared for the Health Council of Canada by a researcher at the University of British Colombia recommended last month that the government not only preserve the rules, but strengthen them.

Providing detailed information on drugs should not be left up to commercials, the report said. Rather it should be a publicly funded service.

CanWest chief executive officer Leonard Asper told the company's annual meeting in Toronto last month that several regulatory changes are needed in Canada's media sector to ensure companies can be profitable.

Since U.S. drug advertisements often make their way to Canada through television and magazines, the Canadian laws should be changed, the company said.

In a statement yesterday, CanWest called the current advertising restrictions "unfair, ineffective and discriminatory." The company would not comment further on the court challenge.

While broadcasters, newspapers and magazine companies have banded together in a lobbying effort in Ottawa on the issue, the CanWest court action is being undertaken solely by the company.

A spokesman for the Canadian Association of Broadcasters said the industries plan to continue their efforts in Ottawa with the recently elected Conservative government.

"You see all the ads on U.S. television and whatever else, I don't see why we shouldn't be able to have that up here in Canada," said Greg O'Brien, publisher of Cable Radio Television Telecom, an on-line guide that tracks the industry.

Maxime Bernier, industry minister
Beauce, Que.
A newcomer to Parliament Hill, Bernier will have his father’s experience to draw on. Now a senator, Gilles Bernier was elected for three terms in the 1980s and 1990s as both a Tory and an Independent.

The younger Bernier is a lawyer and businessman who has worked for financial and banking institutions and was consultant on legislative issues on their behalf. He has expertise in business, economic and constitutional matters. He was also a member of the board of the Montreal Economic Institute. Most recently, he was vice-president for corporate affairs and communications for Standard Life Canada.

Knowing that the Con plan is to privatize public healthcare, allow banks to sell insurance and encourage privatization of crown corps across the provinces, it looks like Stephen Harper is found the right man for the job.

It matters not that crown corps stabilize consumer fee's... as anyone who lives in Eastern Canada will concur... what matters is corporate profits and lets sell out to the Americans as quickly as possible. Yup! They found the right guy for the job. Is a minority government toothless? Its about the intel, folks. It matters not, whether they pass one bill. They'll find out how to bring the system down somehow, and we just gave them the text book to do it.

Jim Prentice, minister of Indian affairs and northern development and federal interlocuter for Metis and non-status Indians
Calgary Centre-North, Alta.
First elected in 2004, he has been a member of the aboriginal affairs and northern development committee and served as the critic for Indian affairs and northern development. A lawyer who has practised for more than 20 years, Prentice specializes in property rights. He has also served as a commissioner of the Indian Claims Commission of Canada, owned and operated weekly newspapers, been part owner of a retail business and been involved in real estate.

Harpers plan to enshrine property right protection with constitutional , fits well with this appointment. Harper needs someone who has the background in courts who has argued against native land claims on a constitutional basis with property rights. Arguements about who was there first will matter not with who has the rights to be there under the court of law. Change the laws, change the constitution to recognize property "rights" and you might well have justification to get rid of every native land claim out there on the basis of claims of mineral and oil rights alone. This is what Harper is after. Its dirty and its what they are about. Go to my earlier links if you doubt these words as a "mere" conspiracy. The Cons have made their agenda public through the NCC.

Emersons recent words taken from:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060209.wxtories/BNStory/National/

"I don't understand why they would go to such bizarre lengths as to raise that kind of issue when in fact I had done so much and raised so much for the Liberal Party," said Mr. Emerson, who admits he feels battered by the outcry that followed his defection and appointment to cabinet this week.

Mr. Emerson's Liberal riding association in Vancouver Kingsway has asked that he resign and run as a Conservative in a by-election and return $96,755 that the association used to run his campaign.

"I would like the Liberal Party to contemplate how much they are going to pay back to all of the people who contributed to the Liberal Party because I was out there doing the fundraising for them," Mr. Emerson said after a cabinet retreat near Meech Lake.

"A lot of business people and others in the Vancouver area were supporting the Liberal Party because they were comfortable having me there."

Is that out of touch?
petition to have him recalled

http://www.petitiononline.com/RDE/petition.html

There are over 8500 now and growing in two days. CBC and the Globe has mentioned it. Lets see it hit 100,000+.

Murdock said

Funny, but only a few months ago, the Cons and the media were openly talking about the previous precedent in Canadian history, where a minority government WAS overturned by the Governor-General. Last fall, the Cons were floating that very same idea -- that maybe they could snatch power away from the minority Liberals through the intervention of the GG, by having the GG declare the government just wasn't working. Remember? Or are we all suffering from short-term memory loss?

I guess now that the Olympics are starting, and the Gretzky gambling scandal is upon us, we'll all just drift away and forget about what Harper is doing to dismantle what little is left of one of the last of our rights, the right for our vote to count for something at the ballot box. That's what the Cons and many in the media are trying to make sure happens. LET'S NOT LET THIS ISSUE JUST DIE AWAY. Not just the Emerson aspect, but all the other very creepy things HARPER is doing to destabilize our system of government.

Anyway, forget recall -- if Emerson drops out of the picture, you can be sure HARPER will spin it to take credit for "doing the right thing" and he will continue to gut and restructure our system of government to suit his needs just like Bush did down south. Bush changed laws to exempt himself and his records from seeing the light of day forever. That's right, forever. Other presidents lived with the law that said their records of office would be kept secret for 25 years. Bush said no, and changed the law to withhold his records forever. He was able to do that not because everyone was still dumb-struck by 9/11. No, Bush changed that law BEFORE 9/11. He was able to do so because he and his cronies made lots of outrageous changes real fast right after they got power. HARPER is using the exact same tactics.

So, remember the sponsorship scandal? Of course you do, the federal Public Works ministry was run by fraudulent people who gave away hundreds of millions of our dollars to their cronies. HARPER said he would run an honest government full of integrity. So he appointed as Minister of this same Public Works department, a man who never even bothered to run in this election, Michele Fortier. Fortier had run in previous elections and always lost. A couple of days ago Fortier explained to a reporter when asked why he didn't run in this election, and Fortier said "I didn't want to run in this election." Oh, and who is Mr. Fortier? Mr. HARPER'S campaign co-chair (along with John Reynolds), in other words a CRONEY of HARPERS. So an unelected croney gets to run the very same ministry that the Cons vowed to run with integrity.

I refuse to refer to HARPER as the PM, he'll just continue to be Mr. HARPER to me, or Con-man HARPER. Please don't call me harsh; that's exactly what the Cons are hoping to do. Call everyone down for not being nice, while behind the scenes they behave like marauding hoards dismantling what little role/say we as Canadians have left in how our country is governed and by whom.

Focus on HARPER. Don't get distracted by the Olympics and the Gretzky gambling scandal, that's of next to no importance to us in the long-term. Don't let-up on the pressure on HARPER and his cronies.

Sunny Samson-we don't know who you are but you know who I am. You have defamed me, libelled me, without cause or justification. Your rationale is to ask anyone in media or another polling company about our credibility. Cyberspace is a different forum than 'regular media'. This entire blog relates to presumably lack of credibility in elected officials. This entire on-line newspaper is a form of alternative media.

It is an exchange of ideas and a comment on the various credibility of those ideas. This outburst of yours is a panic. It will interesting to find out who you are and where you are connected. We have already identified a number of bloggers nation wide who purport to be 'just regular joes' who are linked to government or other partisan political activities.

The idea of blogging is to provide a voice outside the mainstream. It is difficult to know because of the anonymous nature of these blogs who is really behind them.

However, I am in another blog wherein I go through some of the law relating to blogs websites libel and such, which provides me with even greater ammunition relative to your defamatory comments.

You can say you don't like my polling, you don't believe the polling, but you cannot call us fraud (which relates to taking people's money under false pretenses) without justification. Doing this, and attempting to ban me from the Tyee on this basis-Charter Rights arguments-has placed both yourself, the Tyee, and possibly others in legal jeopardy.

Furthermore, you have presumed that people on this website cannot make their own determinations about another, no matter what they do or don't do and that is insulting.

The Tyee will be getting a 'formal' letter from me demanding an apology. Since this is a public forum and you have made the remarks publicly, you and the Tyee should consider this to be NOTICE.

In order to mitigate damages against me both you personally, (not your blog name) and a representative of the Tyee must provide me with a written apology immediately both in this newspaper a copy of which should be placed in this blogstream as well.

Failure to remove the defamatory material immediately will be cause to conclude the Tyee condones the defamatory remarks and could give cause to Special Damages over and above conventional damages.

I have two years from today's date, if I am not satisfied with the apology(s) to seed legal damages.

February 10, 2006

Glen P. Robbins
robbinssceresearch.com

Mr. David Beers

McGrady, Baugh and Whyte

Dear Sirs

I conduct public opinion polls and have done since 1998.

Under the recent Tyee ‘blog-article’ Emerson: The Power and the Tory, a blogger under the name Sammy Samsun has defamed and or libeled me. I do include my polling name and my real name in these blogs.

My polling firm has a history of accuracy in public opinion polling which is irrefutable, and would be considered irrefutable by anyone who reviews our results against real events.

Under the blogsite Pickton Trial: Who were the Victims? I write a little about what I perceive the law to be relative to that particular discussion.

I have a degree in Political Science, however in 1996 a BC Supreme Court Judge Ordered that “I be treated as a lawyer at all times”.

As you know the Tyee is responsible for what is written on its website. In fact, within the blogstream article involving Mr. Emerson, another ‘blogger’ makes reference to the fact that ‘bloggers’ have been kicked off the site, presumably for one indiscretion or another.

Mr/Mrs. Samsun whoever he or she is, (as I am sure you will acknowledge) is playing pretty fast and loose with the Tyee’s assets. Not only is one case of fraud difficult to prove but also 150-200 cases would be impossible, particularly against our history of accuracy, which is virtually unmatched.

I would ask that the appropriate protocols be instituted here including a written apology, and I would expect a banning of the person who wrote the defamatory comments.

Sincerely,

Glen P. Robbins
(604) 942-3757

Back to the main point. I find it amusing how people like dirtmeister and poindexter think that all this upset is pure left wing politics.

CONSERVATIVES are upset by this. They believed Harper would do things differently. After all, he said so. He also said he believed in an elected Senate and in banning lobbyists from working for governments for five years. In one fell swoop, he has betrayed three of his cherished principles.

And he has alienated many of his backbenchers who A) didn't get a seat in cabinet when outsiders did and B) have to take the heat from their constituents.

No-one has interviewed harper because he just refuses to be interviewed. It's his modus operandi.

If anyone thinks that the Emerson kerfuffle isn't starting to leave some marks on the conservative caucus I'd suggest a quick read of the website to which the undernoted url refers - particularly the 'Choices' entry from yesterday.

Seems to me I remember a time when freedom of speech and expression was a fundamental principle of the folks who were building that new structure of openness, accountability and transparency that the conservative party of canada was meant to be. Wasn't there also a principle of permitting MPs to have their say and make their feelings known without fear of reprisal? Guess I was naive. You couldn't make this stuff up.

http://www.garth.ca/weblog/

grw writes:

it totally jibes, they are the same thing.

just as the federal watchpuppy did nothing in the Dosanj and Gurm the Worm case, so will he do now ---> nothing.

Dunno about that, this is from yesterday's Toronto Star:

And Edmonton-based conservative commentator Link Byfield, who was elected in 2004 as one of four senators-in-waiting, raised questions about Harper's decision to appoint Montrealer Michael Fortier, an unelected campaign organizer, to the Senate with a cabinet position.

"I have misgivings about anyone who starts compromising principles on Day 1, especially to accommodate Quebec," Byfield said.

Ethics watchdog Democracy Watch has said it will lodge a formal complaint with the federal Ethics Commissioner because Emerson was technically still a Liberal cabinet minister when he accepted Harper's offer to cross the floor. The Ottawa-based group believes the deal violates the federal ethics code and post-employment regulations for public office holders.

A spokesperson for the commissioner's office said no complaint had yet been received.

With files from Canadian Press

Sunny Samson inquires:

Yes and last fall there were nearly two weeks of no legislation being passed, every vote on every 2nd reading of numerous bills was not attended by all the LiEberals and NDPers, but the BQ and CONformers were there and outnumbering the government they were able to shoot down the government every time. Then a committee, temporarily dominated by BQists, put in a motion calling for non-confidence into a bill (quietly). This motion was not missed by the CONformers and they with the BQ got the bill thru to 3rd reading.

Waking up from his nap Mr. Dithers ran into the commons the next day with all the ministers he could muster and they *just* (2 votes) managed to stop the 3rd and final reading. Then Dithers and his others went back to sleep.

More bills lost 2nd reading (no big deal) but again, this time from the CONformers an open bill mocking the government and declaring non-confidence, made 1st, 2nd and 3rd reading! It took two days, only this time Mr. Dithers and Co were completely absent. BY THE RULES OF PARLIAMENT, the GG should have disolved Parliament by the order of that bill having passed 3rd reading. However the GG has the discretion to differ to the Senate - where the bill was crushed under the weight of all those LiEberal appointments (12 years gets a lot of old Conservative Senators out).

Re-enter Dithers and CO. they all managed to get a money bill passed (with Belinda's help) which is an official confidence motion that the GG cannot differ on.

This is what all the fluff was about last year.

For anyone interested in understanding why Fortier is not as big an issue relative to Quebec and why, in my opinion, Mr Harper won't have too much trouble getting through his next crisis (over the day-care/family allowance promise) the url below is interesting reading:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1139526651395&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907622983

Fair enough. But you should at least be as publicly against it as you were in the previous case. All we're looking for is a little consistency.

there is a difference here!
nobody could prove that Dosanjh was bribing, with Emerson it is on TV that Harper did offer a cabinet post!
it is NOT the same!
they may both be sleezy, but we need proof to prosecute, and here it is admitted by both Harper and Emerson

Right on, Gloomy!

And here we have it, how the deal went down, in their own words from David Emerson... and the blustering braggadocio John Reynolds (from the Toronto Star):

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1139267414477&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

ok Gloomy

take your evidence and find a prosecutor who cares to advance the case....

good luck with that.

grw says:

I laughed and waved may hands at it then as I am with the sillyness now.

How am I being any different?

You need to read to the end of the Star article link above to find out that Reynolds phoned Emerson's home from Ottawa.

yes Murdock, you are right!
The media is doing its best to not mention these facts and to downplay them, just as you do!
That however does not change anything, we are used to being manipulated.
For the sake of this blog, could we stick to facts?
i am beginning to suspect some scribes here are assembling their posts as a portfolio so they can apply as spindoctors.

..and David Orchard just won a settlement against the Conservative Party...so perhaps our legal system sometimes does work in the interests of the people:

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/2do-index.html

No problem peoples. Harper is a man of his word. The changes he spoke of were designed for us, not him!

Guys,
Why all the fuss now? If you've been following this issue since day 1 it's obvious what had gone down - and equally obvious, given Harper's statement during the campaign in a CBC forum, that he didn't have any scruples about going after someone like Emerson. The real problem is that no one in the MSM is putting it all together.
In a way Richard Gwyn comes closest to outing the motivation and the philosophical 'grounding', if you can call it that, for our new Prime Minister's actions. I agree this is a major problem for the country but for the Harper conservatives this is just a tiny taste of what's to come if somebody doesn't have the chutzpah to connect the dots for the public - whose attention span is already stretched to its limit.

Richard Gwyn reference is to his column in today's Toronto Star.

G West... I believe it was Emerson, who during the campaign, suggested that there was a mole in the Liberal Party feeding Harper's crew with inside information. I'm interested in keeping the debate alive long enough to expose this farce for what it is. As I said before, it appears that Germat Grewal had enough savoir faire to email David Berner with a tip about Emerson. So how did a non-elect know anything about Harpo's new cabinet? The questions just keep getting more profound as time passes.

Let me get this straight if Emerson stayed a Liberal and joined the Harper cabinet that would be OK? Emerson could have been the first member of a grand coalition the Reformliberal Conservatives. Or maybe what really bothers people is that he joined a Harper cabinet.

Eddy Haskel
I'm not much for conspiracy theories. There was so much ill-advised stuff flying around on Liberal websites during the campaign, as I'm sure you'll recall, it hardly seems plausible that anyone needed a mole to understand that the Liberals were in disarray don't you think?

On the other hand I certainly think Harper's behavior (especially relative to the public persona he effects) and the way the party is now trying to stonewall over the issue (did you look at Garth Turner's blog?) deserves to be treated with the same disdain that conservative commentators heaped on Bill Clinton in the not so distant past for his dissembling about the meaning of 'is'.

This is clearly outrageous and it needs to be covered with a little more depth and integrity than I've seen anywhere in the traditional media to this point - with the possible exception of Gwyn's article above - to say the least.

How to do that is a question I haven't yet come up with an answer to but I don't think us exchanging horrified exclamations of disgust here at the Tyee is going to do the trick.As I've said several times before, I'm open to suggestions as long as they are basically non partisan.

Musings from the Globe and Mail, Jan. 27, 2006. Interesting in light of what has developed since. Tangled web et al.

Mr. Campbell had the ear of Mr. Emerson, and Mr. Emerson had the ear of Prime Minister Paul Martin. Not a bad pipeline, that.....

Who will Mr. Campbell call now when he wants something from Ottawa? It might be up-and-comer James Moore, the 29-year-old Conservative wunderkind from Port Moody, but let's not forget that old political warhorse John Reynolds. "

Just watched Mike Duffy's show on CTV. The consensus among the media pundits is that the conservatives handled this incredibly badly. They have no media skills; in fact, Harper runs from the media and hides. He simply can't be PM in this day and age and do that.

Emerson was terrible in his interviews, but Harper and other members of his caucus should have been out there defending him. Harper finally gets Peter Mackay do it, and HE drops the ball saying Emerson had been disillusioned with the Liberals for "some time."

Duffy predicts Emerson (now hiding out back in Van with his family) will resign.

The larger problem is Harper; he promised a new accountable government, and he won't even publically defend his actions.

marta:
And the mindblower is that 3/4ths of the cabinet is in communications, albeit, the corporate kind. The fact that we could elect O'Connors, a former general turned weapons and military equipment dealer to find a guy like this running our national defence...

Interesting take on U.S. media. Gordon O'Connor whas the only cabinet minister mentioned. Here, we've got a lobbiest elect who writes brochures on what's for sale under certain circles, instead of reading them, like an honest politician would. What a terrible appointment, and it won't take long for this to be another scandal in waiting.

As for my links provided on the NCC, two have been torched. Someone isn't napping.

Peter McKay isn't looking so hot with the Mulroney press lately, either. He stood on his head in the house of commons in defence of Mulroney countless times, while Mulroney was being investigated. Someone should start asking where his dad got all that money.

Marta,
I agree with what you're saying about Harper but I'm beginning to think that the best way to approach this is to somehow get the politics out of it. I'll try to explain what I mean.

In the end it is really a non-partisan question and it's best to keep that in mind. I know you can make comparisons and analogies between the conservatives and their current behavior and the liberals and things that happened in the past. Although the issues and examples can be distinguished in a reasonable and logical way which makes the Emerson case (if not the Fortier one) an exceptionally crass example of political opportunism and unethical behavior I think the case suffers if this becomes an exercise in relativism.

What I mean is that there is a long and dismal, often shameful, tradition of politicians of all stripes making self-serving decisions with no regard for the people they serve. This is only the most egregious recent example of a political leader deliberately sticking his finger in the electorate's eye. I believe it has to stop and the clear disconnect between what Stephen Harper has said (in fact has promised) and what he is now doing is the final insult in a long line of appalling behavior.

To suggest, as now appears to be the case given Peter McKay's statement, that Emerson ought to be seen as some kind of selfless and dedicated public-spirited negotiating genius for whom the electorate ought to tug their collective forelocks in mute appreciation is the latest example of this government's utter disregard for the intelligence and basic good common sense of the people they are sworn to serve. It is so Orwellian in its spirit that, were it to be broadcast over Eric Blair's grave in the All Saints Churchyard in Sutton Courtenay, it might very well cause his old bones to rattle in indignation.

It is long past time this kind of lying stopped. If Mr Emerson's public spirited nature and dedication to the interests of his fellow Canadians is that finely honed then it seems obvious to me that he should resign his illegitimately retained membership in Parliament and submit himself once again to the people of his riding.

If Mr Harper has hopes to retain any credibility and goodwill he ought to immediately direct his new minister to follow this course too.

Otherwise, it seems to me that every single Canadian who cares about the fact that they are being played for fools by their servants needs to speek up and say enough! And not just to the conservatives but to the whole rotten system that subverts the public will.

Should be 'speak'in the second last line, sorry!

G West muses:

Again this sounds like the sirens' song of separation, either the provinces from Ottawa or the citizenry from the bloated, self-serving, domineering bureaucracy ---> with the PM at its head.

Any way you cut it G West, your final solution involves the end of 'national' governance from Ottawa as we have come to know it since 1873.

murdock
I just expressed an opinion that this should be a non-partisan effort because the kind of behavior we're talking about insults all Canadians and demeans everyone, not just the particular political ox that's getting gored at the moment, not just folks in Western Canada, or Quebec, or wherever.

I think your libertarian ideas are as subject to corruption as anything the current system has served up so, no, I'm not against what you seem to find so offensive in the Federal system. I'm against people saying one thing and doing another; I'm against people pretending they have principles, describing them and urging folks to vote for them because of those principles and then pretending that you leave the principles at the stoop when you get elected.

I think the system can be changed without the kind of cathartic shake up you seem to be so enamoured with but I have no utopian dreams that it'll be perfect. I do think it can be somewhere between 25 and 50 percent better than it is today and I think that's worth working for.

To adopt your solution would mean eventually succumbing to the law of the jungle, in my opinion, and I'd sooner stay with the current mess than do that.

So don't, please, try to tell me what my suggestions would lead to. You go ahead and believe what you want to, that's your right and I won't try to convince you otherwise - other than hoping you might see some merit when you read others' ideas. I'll do the same for your musings. Can we leave it at that?

Good posts, G West.

I agree that these problems are far more important than partisan issues.

OK, so what happened to the spat between Mr Robbins and Sammy Sampson. I read the double legal post from Robbins this morning and then found the deflamitory comment made by SS earlier in the posts. And then, poof, all of Sammy disappeared and the threat of legal action from Robbins similarly disappeared.

I agree that SS went way, way over the line with his or her comments and should be banned from this forum. But why were the threats of legal actions against this e-newspaper removed? Seems like a little bit of censorship on the part of the BC Fed, er I mean the Tyee.

You've basically got the picture. SS libelled Glen Robbins; Glen Robbins threatened to sue if the libellous matter wasn't retracted. The Tyee acted and the whole matter disappeared. End of story. So far as I know.

Seems to me the Tyee is in a difficult position because material is posted directly and any excision is going to have to be after the fact. I think the jurisprudence follows precedent in newspaper libel cases so it's vital to get the offensive matter down as soon as possible to prevent the wrong of libel from being continued over time to the detriment of the wronged party's reputation and good name.

No way is it censorship. It would have been irresponsible to do anything else under the circumstances.

In one grandiose, aristocratic, abjuratory gesture, Stephen Harper has squandered the miniscule morsel of wiggle-room he had garnered as a new minority Prime Minister, by appointing outsiders and turncoats into his severely truncated cabinet.

By running a campaign based on 'integrity'- with their obsequious, pandering campaign slogan, "Stand Up For Canada" - Harper's frail administration had a single, unique opportunity to push past the Opposition straight-jacket and establish his government as a legitimate alternative to the Liberals. And failed miserably.(Not that I support the Cons, mind you - they are the contemporary political equivalent of Paleolithic Man, in this scribe's humble opinion).

By admitedly seeking out and appointing Emerson and Fortier to his cabinet (a decision likely coloured by hubris, and a warped interpretation of parliamentary protocol we refer to as "The Chretien Effect"), Harper has only served to demonstrate that he has no intuitive grasp of the mood of electorate, and has underscored the very fears that most Canadians have toward him - that he is an autocrat in a democrat's clothes.

Where the federal Liberals were widely viewed by the electorate as a kind of benevolent ruling family dynasty, Harper has succeeded - by this one exceedingly cynical and manipulative political act of appointing his cabinet - in portraying the Conservative brand as an oligarchical, imperialistic form of government that can never be trusted with a majority in Parliament.

All I can say is, 'Thank The Christ'.

Letter from Jodi Cadman

Friday, February 10, 2006

I miss my father, Chuck Cadman, even more during times like these. I am a constituent of David Emerson, and thankfully I did not vote Liberal or Conservative.

Emerson claims he felt used by the federal Liberals as "a cash cow" and for his connections to big business.

They used each other, as he allowed Paul Martin to appoint him as a star candidate, bypassing the nomination process the first time around.

As for repaying campaign contributions, Emerson claims the public voted for him as a person and that he raised thousands of dollars for the party.

If he honestly believes that, and that it's all about him, then maybe he should have considered running as an independent.

Oh, yes . . . but an independent would never have enough power, a government appointment, a title and a nice pay increase.

Independents only have the power and courage of their own convictions.

I have no doubt he'll do a fine job as minister. It's the appearance of being bought and sold, and of being such a blatant opportunist, that has upset me.

I am equally disgusted by Stephen Harper's conduct and by the fact that no one in Ottawa seems to understand why people outside Parliament are furious.

I'm not politically naive, and I know how isolated and detached Ottawa can be. I also live my life on the West Coast as an average, working woman and I demand better when it comes to who represents me. I hope others will begin to demand more come the next election.

Jodi Cadman,

Vancouver

© The Vancouver Province 2006

As public cries for Emerson’s resignation grow, Vancouver-Kingsway-area MLAs David Chudnovsky, Gregor Robertson and Adrian Dix will host a public meeting for members of the community to share their views on Saturday, February 11 (Today). David Emerson has been invited.

WHERE: Sir Charles Tupper School

419 East 24th Avenue, Vancouver

WHEN: 1:00 to 3:00 pm

Saturday, February 11 (Today)

There will be a lawyer present to discuss legal remedies
______________________________________________
There is also a protest at Emerson's office on Sunday.

SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12th, at 2 PM.
2148 Kingsway, Vancouver

Conservative MP Garth Turner is contemplating leaving his caucus over the backlash from Prime Minister Stephen Harper's officials, angry at his public criticism of Liberal turncoat David Emerson's appointment to cabinet.

In his online blog, Turner says he had a series of "unhappy meetings" with caucus officials Thursday over his comments, including one with Harper, who demanded he publicly support the appointment.

"Right now I do not feel I'm allowed to do what I want and say what I think," Turner said in an interview yesterday, pointing out he'll decide whether to stay in the caucus after talking to party officials this weekend.

William Stairs, Harper's director of communication, said Turner shouldn't expect to be a part of the team if he doesn't play the political game.

Thank you Jodi Cadman.

People may want to know about yet another one of Harper's cabinet appointments. This appeared in our local paper yesterday:

Our new federal Minister of Justice, Vic Toews, was convicted of breaking the law regarding campaign finances in Manitoba. He pled guilty, no contest.

Is their no end to the Harper government's lack of respect for the Canadian people?

Thanks Jodi Cadman

I was thinking about your father the other day and how he had the guts both to run as an independent and to stay as an independent in the house. He IS missed

Sunny Samson points out (again):

Is their no end to the Harper government's lack of respect for the Canadian people?

This is not a federally indictable offence, it is an offence, yes, but by the rules of parliament Mr. Toews is not barred from becoming an MP, nor of becoming a federal Bureaucrat.

Before lighting your hair on fire again, take a look at the offense list of the LiEberal MP's of the last 2-3 parliaments.

bulltoss writes:

WHERE: Sir Charles Tupper School

419 East 24th Avenue, Vancouver

WHEN: 1:00 to 3:00 pm

Saturday, February 11 (Today)

There will be a lawyer present to discuss legal remedies
______________________________________________
There is also a protest at Emerson's office on Sunday.

SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12th, at 2 PM.
2148 Kingsway, Vancouver

The tar and feathering will be at 4pm on Kingsway, if Emerson comes.

Burning in effigy, if Emerson does not.

My question is will the speakers be standing in front of a brick wall with a spotlight?

Sigh

Apparently, Emerson said to the CBC last night that he won't quit.

The Van Sun has John Reynolds saying that we'll all shut up once Emerson brings home the softwood lumber deal.

Is there really no-one else in all of Canada who is capable of negotiating with the Americans on this? Reynolds and Campbell seem to suggest that Emerson has almost god-like powers. It's silly.

Are you listening to Fortier on the House CBC 690?

I have spent the last several days reading the various posts, editorials and comments on Mr. Emersons' decision. I thought that perhaps my anger at him would in some way diminish, but it has not, if anything it is greater now than it was when this all happened.

In life, whether in business, politics or everyday life, the most important quality we have to maintain is our "integrity". It is that measure of our integrity that governs how honest we are and how we deal with others.

In the case of Mr. Emerson, clearly he lacks that compass to know what is right or wrong. To use a poor description, he has "flipped the bird" at not only the voters of his riding he has done so to the whole political process, whether we view as flawed or not. He has said to all Canadian voters: I have wealth, I have business influence and I do not care what you (the voters) think.

It is arrogance in the extreme.

It is interesting that this issue transcends right across the political spectrum, that alone should be a message to Monsieurs Harper, Emerson and Reynolds. To treat the voters as merely observers is truly astonishing. In Mr. Emersons' case it's worse, he is treating the voters like they are errant employees who need to be backhanded in some way. He seems not to get the message that virtually all politicians know in some form, they are there at the whim of the voters, they are the servants not the other way around.

Had Mr. Emerson quit the Liberal party on some ideological difference after sitting in the House there would have been a small furor but it would have passed in time.

This time, I think the voters across the country have said NO, this is wrong, this is deceitful, this is holding the voters wishes in contempt.

If I were the Conservative caucus, Mr. Harper, Emerson and Reynolds, I would be taking special note of this situation. This is democracy at its' worst. This issue has legs and will change the political landscape.

StanM.

Well put. Only disagree with your second last sentence. This is not 'democracy at its worst' this is 'not' democracy. And it is, as many have noted, so out of keeping with the average Canadian's sense of common decency and fairness that no amount of special pleading or appeals to legal precedent will make it go away. The opposition should turn and face the wall every time Mr Harper or Mr Emerson speaks in the House.

marta

Don't give up, you wouldn't have expected anything else from John Reynolds would you?
And anyone who expected anything better from Mr Emerson probably was naive too - Mr Harper, that's another matter - his whole life has been an advertisement that he was different - even his supporters must be having second thoughts.

Thanks for posting the public forum at Tupper, bulltoss - see some of you there - ciao.

.

That would be my hope as well.

Canada is being turned into a big box store. They are treating the citizens of this country as mere customers who have no right to interfere in how They run Canada Inc.

They think being elected gives them the right of ownership. It doesn't... and we had better make this point boldly clear.

Democracy 101: It is they who are accountable to us, "the citizens" of this country.

HARPER SAID THINGS WERE GONNA BE DONE DIFFERENT!

now all you right wing bible thumping holier than thou...TELL ME!WHAT'S DIFFERENT?

the LIBERALS are age old POLITICA WHORES...the conservatives are age old POLITICAL WHORES...the NDP are just MORONS...the BLOK is one of those POLITICAL WHORES we can't seem to define...must be that DISTINCT CULTURE crap...and then there are parties that haven't even learned about FOREPLAY BEFORE SCREWING THE CITIZEN...but they will learn.

IT'S PART OF THE SYSTEM...AND THIS LAST ELECTION AND ALL THE BULLSHIT THAT FOLLOWED...SHOWED CANADIANS...IT DOESN'T MATTER THE COLOUR OR STRIPE...............THEY ARE ALL WHORES...

EMERSON CROSSING THE FLOOR AND THAT CABINET APPOINTMENT.............EPITOMIZES THE KIND OF GARBAGE THAT SEEKS POWER AND THE LENGTHS THEY GO TO OBTAIN AND THEN KEEP THEIR LIFESTYLES...

DID I HEAR EMERSON SAY...LET THEM EAT CAKE..

let us drag out the GUILLOTINE and show the bastards how their heads bounce...

Where was Democracy when it was Vancouver only who got to vote on the Olympics?
Where were the they(s) then, while the rest of the country had to sit its hands and accept Vancouvers choosing,whether for or against.
Personaly I don't think most of Canada gives a rats arse regarding this Emerson switch a rew, after all,what specifically is undemocratic or illegal about this manouver, nothing.

What absurdity, the above are attempting to be a politcally oppurtune as Emerson.

The issue should really be Fortier.

woody: you can have the Olympics!
They were fostered on us by the media and our business oriented premier!
They are strictly a business venture and the punchline is that the citizens of Vancouver picks up the tab when they go over budget!
How can you have democracy when the media is controlled by big business?

What is amazing is watching the alberta commentators rationalising Harper's cabinet. Lucky for them newspapers stopped hiring journalist a long time ago.

UNDERSTANDME

Not that simple, in my opinion: It may feel good to vent but it won't make any difference and it dilutes the will to actually make change happen. Furthermore, it detracts from the point you're trying to make. You may be right about their morals and ethics (or lack of them as the case may be) but these people and a lot of others are pretty invested in the system and yelling at them is not going to convince them you've got logic, good sense and rationality on your side. What you say may seem like fun but it's a bad idea, in my opinion. Besides I don't think anyone really wants a repeat of the French Revolution; this society does a lot of things right and it would be nuts to suggest anyone would be better off by throwing out the whole system and starting over – and that, by definition, is what a revolution is all about.

I don't even want Harper thrown out of office - I want him to keep his promises and stop pretending that he's in any way representing a true democratic alternative or doing the job he’s sworn to do by behaving as he is. The conservatives have won the right to run the country with a minority government - in my opinion they have the obligation and responsibility to do that within the confines and limits of a set of commitments and promises they now think they can ignore. I’d like to see him voted out in the next election but that’s not what we’re talking about, is it?

That's the problem and anarchy is not the solution, in my opinion.

Gloomy says that the citizens of Vancouver picks up the tab when they go over budget!

Not so Gloomy, Vancouver gets all the cake,the rest of us get the crumbs, especially the Fartland.

"They (the 2010 Winter Olympics) are strictly a business venture and the punchline is that the citizens of Vancouver picks up the tab when they go over budget!
How can you have democracy when the media is controlled by big business?"

Not a deal big deal here, but in actual fact the 2010 Games were turned into an exercise in democracy by former Mayor Campbell. He very foolishly (in my opinion) held a referendum within the city limits of Vancouver as to whether the citizins did indeed want to host the Games. I cannot recall the numerical outcome, but it passed. Can't see anything more purely democratic than that.

I find it hard to reconcile the opinion that corporate support is bad for an event like the Olympics which take 100's of millions to stage, yet when I suggested that the BC Fed's financial support of this newspaper would naturally give a bias to the writers, well, it was not well received here.

Finally, I would have to assume that anyone with the above stated opinion about the Olympics has never done a whole lot of athletic endeavours in their time. To have a chance to see the best that the world can offer in skilled sports (no, I do not mean NHL type hockey!!) is an opportunity few of us will ever turn down.

woody, I'm under no illusions over the abuses democracy has suffered of late...with the MSM playing a large part as gloomy says... just that it is worth fighting for.

Montreal is still paying for their Olympics, and so will Vancouver 20 years from now!
The business people will profit and as usual the citizens will pay!
If you enjoy watching, then keep in mind that people in Salzburg will also watch it on their TV. But they turned down the "opportunity" and will not pay a penny for the privelige!
Unless you are in the hospitality industry there will be no financial benefits to you, but house prices will skyrocket as they did after Expo!
while i personally keep in shape, i prefer to see thousands of "real people" keeping fit rather than watch special bred examples the way the Soviet Union presented us with in years past.

number 9...number nine...number nine...

remember that catchy little bit of frivolity?

was it before or after the song Revolution?
john lennon was a sweetheart,wasn't he?

political rhetoric is the FOREPLAY of politicians and we the people can ACCEPT or REJECT the ADVANCES of the WHORES THAT COURT US.

IN THIS PROVINCE YOU CAN GO TO JAIL FOR TWO YEARS FOR UTTERING A THREAT...JUST A SIMPLE ...I AM GONNA GET YOU ...WILL DO THE TRICK...

SO I DON'T THINK THERE IS GONNA BE A REVOLUTION ANYTIME SOON...BEING AN EX MILITARY MAN I KNOW WHAT THE COSTS ARE...

NOWADAYS...I SHOOT FROM THE LIP...CAUSE THE GOVT.TOOK AWAY MY ACCESSS TO GUNS...AND BEING AN EX MILITARY EXPLOSIVES SPECIALIST AND MARTIAL ARTS INSTRUCTOR...KEEPS ME CENTRED IN THE RCMP's SIGHTS...AND I CAN TELL YOU...YOU ARE NOT ANONYMOUS HERE BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

when things are DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO PROTECT THE ELITE AND FURTHER THEIR CAUSES...THROUGH BIG BUSINESS...ISN'T THAT a type of FACISM ???(i know there are several definitions)

harper is gonna beef up the military and send it abroad for what purpose???GETTING GEORGIE MORE OIL...HELL GIVE'M THE OIL SANDS LET THEM SPEND THE MONEY HERE AND SAVE SOME LIVES TA BOOT...

SO NO ANARCHY OUT THERE CAUSE YA CAN'T FIGHT WHORES WHEN THEY'RE FLASHING BIG BUCKS AND DROWNING YA WITH PROMISES OF GOODIES...

YEAH THAT'S IT TOUCH ME THERE...AND I'LL BE YER SLAVE FOREVER...the right promises in the right ear ...does it everytime.

AND NOT A SINGLE SHOT FIRED TO ENSLAVE A NATION
JUST POLITICAL/EMPTY RHETORIC...PROMISES

PROMISES...FROM BIBLE THUMPING WHORES...WHO WILLINGLY PUT OUT FOR BIG BUSINESS...BUT NOT FOR YOU OR ME.............

GEORGE BUSH...BIBLE THUMPING MORON MEETS STEVEN HARPER BIBLE THUMPING PSUEDOINTELLECTUAL
WHAT HATH GOD WROUGHT UPON US,I ASK ?

i gotta go have a shower...talking about that garbage makes me feel dirty

Gloomy complains:

Here are some facts:

1) The ballot lists the CANDIDATE by name
2) In (brackets) the (party name) is listed on the ballot. The reason for the (brackets) is to (exclude) the (party afiliation) from (legal) argument.

When you cast your vote with the ballot you are voting for a PERSON and NOT A PARTY.

You may not like what that, duly elected, PERSON does. That is just too bad, this is not spin, I am not some media spinmeister. I am telling you the straight fact.

When you vote, in a federal election, you vote for a PERSON and NOT A PARTY.

So for the sake of this blog I have been sticking to facts. Your moral outrage is not based in any logic nor reasoning of the legal obligations of the elector, nor of the elected.

Whether the man, Mr. Emerson has any moral fiber or true understanding of the 'unwritten' social contract is of import to this discourse, but not the FACTS that I have been repeatedly arguing.

cheers

UNDERSTANDME asks:

no, it was a [former] LiEberal colleague of his that said "popcorn and beer"

the GUILLOTINE may be needed in the long run...but for now just stopping the $$$ going to Ottawa will do.

Working Man states:

the electorate of Montreal are celebrating this, as they realize that the $$$ will continue to flow in their direction.

the fact that the PM can do this sort of thing has been around for more longer than anyone can remember.

In the minds of people west of the lakehead, many have not liked the exercise of power that has prevailed from Ottawa, the decison of what to do about it continues to be the problem.

The CCF tried, then got converted into the NDP and became a rump.

The REFORM party tried and now they have been converted into a frankenstein version of the Conservative party.

Perhaps something older is needed, anyone remember the real motives of Louis Riel?

"But they (Salzburg) turned down the "opportunity" and will not pay a penny for the privelige!"

Hate to cloud the discussion with facts but it was actually Berne which voted down the bid, but it was very evident by that time that the IOC was not going to accept their bid.

As for using Montreal as the poster child for Olympic cities, well that is like using Enron as the poster child for corporations (something that is done regularly, I realize). Every summer games since LA in 1984 has either broken even or made money. Salt Lake City and Nagano were also both break evens. The legacy of the games is much broader much as Expo was for our province. The Coquahalla Highway and Vancouver’s SkyTrain Rapid Transit are two examples of projects which were made possible (if not necessary) by Expo. Hard to argue that either of them are not important to all of the province now.

Interesting analogy between politics and sport. I train my bags off for athletics much as I work extremely hard at the business I own. For that, I get gratifying results in races and my business is very sucessful. I also respect and admire those in both athletics and business who are more gifted than I (as long as they play within the rules).

The mantra of the other side of the political spectrum seems to be "Mediocrity at all costs", both for sport and career achievement.
"i prefer to see thousands of "real people" keeping fit rather than watch special ...." seems to capture this perfectly. If you are better than me, it is because you cheat, not because you work harder than me or are more determined than me.

As I said, interesting parallel.

I just learned of the event at Tupper.

Can anyone give an account?

Murdock:
Did you feel that the shoe fit about being a spindoctor? That was a general comment and could apply to a few people on this blog.
Spindoctor or not, you change the subject instead of acknowledging that Waddel has a valid point and it is being downplayed because it does not fit with the media’s owners. That was my point!
Not whether one votes for the party or the person.
If you feel it is ok that Emerson deceives everyone, then there is nothing more to discuss.
In my eyes it is a fact that he jumped ship, sorry if I am not fluent on all the facts you have posted, I state my opinions and facts as I see them!

Gloomy complains:

What you are calling fact is opinion and is the lifeblood of blogs.

Everyone has them and entitled to share, so please stop asking others to leave the blogosphere if you are not.

What was Waddel's point?

I have not seen it written here.

MURDOCK ...you point out working man's quote then direct us to the $$$ flow...

the quote" THE ISSUE SHOULD REALLY BE FORTIER'
is typically what I think is wrong...IT IS NOT THE APPOINTMENT THAT OFFENDS ME AND MANY OTHERS.NOT THAT EMERSON CROSSED THE FLOOR...
THAT CRAP HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.NOT THE CASH TO QUEBEC...IT'S NEVER GONNA STOP,UNLESS THEY SEPERATE AND THEN THEY'LL PROBABLY WANT ALIMONY

WHAT OFFENDS ME IS WHEN SOME HOLIER THAN THOU BIBLE THUMPING CREEP GETS VOTED IN ON THE MERITS OF EMPTY RHETORIC AND SHOWS HOW VACUOUS HE REALLY IS...AND THAT WE GOTTA PUT UP WITH HIS BULLSHIT FOR WHO KNOWS HOW LONG???

SO MUCH FOR STEVEN HARPERS MORAL COMPASS...AND WHAT SCARES ME THE MOST IS THE UNHOLY TRINITY OF BUSH ,BLAIR AND HARPER...

I CAN SEE BLAIR RUBBING HIS HANDS TOGETHER JUST WAITING TO SELL MORE MOTHBALLED MILITARY EQUIPTMENT TO OUR FORCES...WHILE OLD GEORGIE WILL BE ROLLING OUT THE BILLION DOLLAR NEW STUFF...HAVE I GOTTA DEAL FOR YOU STEVEN...
AND LIKE THEY SAY...WHEN YA GOT NEW TOYS...YA JUST GOTTA PLAY...GIVE THEM TROOPS SOME NEW BULLETS HARPER...LETS BOOGIE

THE INDUSTRIAL MILITARY COMPLEX IS OFF AND RUNNING AGAIN....JUST LIKE THE SIXTIES WHEN THEY MADE TRILLION DOLLAR PROFITS EACH YEAR...

AND THE BODY BAGS WERE KEPT IN HUGE WAREHOUSES

THINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE...YEAH, SURE ,STEVEN HARPER HASN'T GOT A F#$&^#G CLUE AND HE SHOWED US HOW CLUELESS HE IS...
WITH THOSE INITIAL ACTIONS...ALL CAUTION TO THE WIND AND WITH AN ARROGANCE ONLY TRUE BIBLE THUMPERS CAN OOZE...THAT RIGHTEOUS ARROGANCE

DAMN...I feel the need for another shower

Juskatladude:
Salzburg / Berne, whatever!
On city decided it was not worth even trying! Perhaps they like their city the way it is?
There are many who wishes that Vancouver had remained a city where ordinary people could still afford to live!
But Vancouver has changed since Expo, and it would be interesting to learn how many citizens have found it necessary to move as it became too expensive a place to live?
I ran a business during Expo, and was greatly inconvenienced for a long period of time because of it.
Again because I was not in the hospitality business there were no benefits, only new problems.
It is too bad that transit can only bee funded when we invite the world here, but that reflects on government policies and it is coincidental if they finally ante up at such times!
The Fartland sees no benefits whatsoever, I should know as I live there now!
Why 2010 should break even is beyond me, they basically have a cost plus contract here, so there is no need to be prudent.
Oh excuse me; they do have to come back and ask for more so maybe you have a different term for it?
Mediocrity it is?
I admire gifted scientists too, but I am not in awe of them or spend hours watching them perform.
Good healthy competition is great, but when it gets to the state where national pride sets in, that is where I back out!
Athletes performances have nothing to do with whatever country they happen to be born in (or granted citizenship to days before the event)!
There are thousand of great athletes in USA for instances, who would be stars were they citizens of some obscure country, what is fair about that?
I appreciate that you work hard, so did I and there is not doubt that success requires an intensive effort.
( If you are better than me, it is because you cheat, not because you work harder than me or are more determined than me.)

I do hope you were not trying to libel me?
Unlike some people, I paid my creditors in full, instead of selling my stock on the black market and go bankrupt, when I closed up shop!
And, yes I believe our government also wants thousands of people to get fit, at least that is what they say!

UNDERSTANDME Hot Dam, finally a post I can sink my teeth into,keep er going, shower twice tomorrow.

juskatladude you stated The Coquahalla Highway and Vancouver’s SkyTrain Rapid Transit are two examples of projects which were made possible (if not necessary) by Expo. Hard to argue that either of them are not important to all of the province now.

How can it be possible that Vancouver’s SkyTrain Rapid Transit, is IMPORTANT to all of B.C. Explain that to someone who lives in Pouce Coupe,would you please.

Gloomy good posting

UNDERSTANDME asks:

one word

TAXES.

Work on the way to end sending them to Ottawa and you will have something that will really scare those whom would govern you....

UNDERSTANDME hollars:

kind of like the arrogance that Trudeau, Cretien and Martin used, eh?

G West calmly points out:

very true, yet the commuters along Kingsway tomorrow, and possibly Monday at the least are likely to find a little piece of anarchy on their street once the demonstrations start in front of Emersons' offices.

more hot air, more wasted energy

raging against the 'machine' of government feels good for a while, but it takes perseverence to really make the kind of difference that is needed.

sadly I suspect that the electors of Vancouver-Kingsway will miss this, waste energy and see those efforts come to naught.

This will make any future, effective organizing harder as fewer and fewer electors will be pursuaded to use their energies in a constructive way.

However, the entertainment value of watching so many LiEberals go nuts over the crossing-of-the-floor of one of their own cannot be overlooked.

Murdock:
Waddell pointed to the old court document Dosangh/Grewal, on TV.
The ethics ruling was that if Dosangh had offered an inducement, he would have been in breach of the ethic laws.
Well, Reynold/Harper induced Emerson in a big big way
And that my friend is a fact! Not merely my opinion.
It would seem that you state facts, and others only opinions? Is that how it is?
I wrote about it earlier on, and it was put down as if it means nothing!
That is the typical action: try to make Waddell look like a bumbling clown instead of listening to what he is trying to get across!
Your point we can read in any newspaper in this country!
I have not asked anyone to leave the blog, I have asked that we stick to facts and refrain from doing a spin on actual facts.

Gloomy repeats:

Ah yes, very good, and I replied then as I do now, were this so much more than a minor incident of floor crossing (happend many times before and probably will again) then the Ethics Watch Commissioner (watchpuppy) would have had something to say right away. Then swooping in with a squadron of the queens cowboys, followed by the GG telling the people that a grave issue had been averted and that the loyal opposition would be offered a chance to form government, etc.

Statement two about all of the Waddell frothings is the same. A legal argument must be made, but before this can be done a charge must be laid.

Since neither actions have taken place I still say that the watchpuppy will come back with a similar wet-noodle response.

I have reviewed the transcripts of the Grewal tapes (that were made public and Dosanj has never refuted). In my mind Dosanj did 'offer' something (only of social value, not monetary directly - but in the Punjab social connections can lead to bigger and better things), this was not accepted as having any inducement value and was discounted by the watchpuppy. So will it be with this incident.

My observation stands, more evidence of the 'offer' than what was said in the press-conference must be made public, a muckraker like the Watergate pair needs to be found and put to work in finding this evidence, otherwise all will pass, like a kidney stone.

UNDERSTANDME says

harper is gonna beef up the military and send it abroad for what purpose???GETTING GEORGIE MORE OIL...HELL GIVE'M THE OIL SANDS LET THEM SPEND THE MONEY HERE AND SAVE SOME LIVES TA BOOT...

Trust me bud they already own the oil sands, I am in Fort Mac working on one of the projects. They just want all the oil as they know it won't last for ever.

As far as emersons defection goes I am not one bit surprised, what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the way he did it, he screwed all those volunteers whose hard work got him elected, did he compensate them for their time, I doubt it as he is in my opinion the type to take the money and run, to hell with ethics.

Harper should take the heat on this one he has always tried to take the high moral ground and now he shows his true colours.

where is the resident troll who called stronach a rather nasty name for crossing the floor, while he had every right to be upset at her the name calling was out of line but I am wondering why he isn't here calling emerson a bunch of names or could it be he is not just a troll but a hyprocrit as well?

Seems to run in the family!

To GWest;

Your are correct and I truly do stand corrected.

Hey, anyone know anything about the lawsuit that was threatened on this blog? It seems all involved have been censored out!

Threats???lawsuits???censorship???in Canada???

Who! Wooda Thunk,eh???

Grumpy:
Scroll back up these posts till you come to the following one, then read the next post after this one in its original location - you'll get the picture.

I agree that SS went way, way over the line with his or her comments and should be banned from this forum. But why were the threats of legal actions against this e-newspaper removed? Seems like a little bit of censorship on the part of the BC Fed, er I mean the Tyee.

working man writes:

Sorry working man. Fortier is just another whore. The issue is Harper's lack of integrity and his embracing of the rot in this system. Geez, I thought that was evident to everyone.

murdock writes:

Why just the citizens of Montreal? Implicit in Emerson's comment that he can do better for Van-Kingsway in cabinet rather than out, is that the lolly will flow to Van-Kingsway from his position of power. This says volumes about how truly useless MP's are unless they sell their souls for power.

murdock also writes:

This comment is racist, murdock. Offering inducements, political whoring, and raking in the cash are endemic in our political system. A person's ancestry has nothing to do with this discussion. If that were the case, the lowest of the of the scum sucking pigs would be the Presbyterian Scots and French Catholics who built this rotten system. An apology would suffice, murdock.

Wallace

eight posts and all censored

geeze..ya think they dont like what some of us say...

gonna be awhile before i trust my hunt and peck finger again...it's got a mind of its own.

is that gonna stand up as defence???

YOUR HONOUR...I WAS THINKIN BOUT THIS...BUT MY FINGER WROTE THAT...

WHADDA YA MEAN I CAN'T GO AROUND SAYIN POLITICIANS WHO MAYBE BIBLETHUMPIN WHORES ARE BIBLE THUMPIN WHORES...THAT SOUNDS LIKE LEGALESE TA ME ...YER HONOUR...SORTA LIKE...A POLITICAIANS ...EMPTY RHETORIC...

WHATS THAT...NO MORE TALK OF INFLUENCE PEDALING...WELL I HOPE NOT...WHATS CYCLING GOT TA DO WITH FAT ASSED POLITICIANS

OH! INFLUENCE PEDDLING ! SORRY YOUR HONOUR...I'M NOT AS SMART AS YOU ELITE HUMAN BEANS...

AND I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT CULTURE CAUSE IT'S RACIST AND THEIR OVERT INFLENCE PEDDLING MAYBE ACCEPPTED THERE BUT WE USE COVERT INFLUENCE PEDDLING HERE...

WHOA..THERE YER HONOUR...THIS IS JUST TO MUCH FER MY SIMPLE MIND...AND BEING ONE OF THE GREAT UNWASHED ...

I FELL THE NEED FOR A SHOWER

Wallace,

I guess I have to write, in all conscience, and second your motion re the above. Unfortunately, and I hate to have to say this, the anonymity of ‘comment forums’ (technically I don’t think this is a ‘blog’, is it?) sometimes permits arguments to be advanced and things to be said which wouldn't, in a more 'real' setting, be countenanced.

I happen to have been involved - in a very peripheral way - in the discussion between the two individuals that led to the actions referenced above in my post to Grumpy this morning. When that happened, and I can't refer you to the actual comments that started it because they're gone, I simply thought it was enough to hold my tongue - other that saying what I did (scroll back if any of you are interested) and not really weigh in myself. Under the circumstances, I didn't want to step into a dispute I knew absolutely nothing about.

Perhaps I should have been more of an activist then, but, in my defence, I'd never participated in a forum like this a month ago. I’ve given the issue a lot of thought since all this happened before breakfast on Friday, and, with your post this morning I think the time has come to say something more:

I think these exchanges are a valuable way for people to communicate and discuss their feelings and opinions but I also think that it's really important for the remarks one posts to avoid extreme rhetoric and personal, and obviously racist and ad hominem remarks.

Virtually everyone here posts using some kind of persona, and even if they don't, most of us have no public profile to speak of. These forums allow people who have concerns about events that are seldom covered in depth and often ignored in the media to get things off their chest and to express their own views in a way that should harm no one. It may not always enlighten but it should never demean so I have to agree with your observations Wallace. To hide behind an adopted label and lob criticism and racist or libellous remarks cheapens the exercise and reflects badly on everyone; it may also threaten the viability of discussion forums in general if such comments have to be expunged when legal actions are threatened.

In retrospect I should have said the same thing myself earlier and I'm sorry I let it pass. It won't happen again. We've been talking about getting Stephen Harper and David Emerson to step up to their ethical responsibilities - it's not sensible or fair for those who comment on their shortcomings to ignore similar standards themselves. Thank you for pointing it out.

geeze...i doan want ta sound superior ta anyone...but how come nobuddy has mentioned the PENSIONS these whores are gonna get...EH?

even evryday whores doan get PENSIONS like that

HOWCOME ITS JES POLITICAL WHORES...THAT GET MILLIONS OF OUR MONIES ???

DO THEY REALLY ....DO US BETTER ???

Murdock: it really happened!
it may not be a fact in your book unless a conviction is secured?
again my point is that this item is deliberately kept quiet!
i can just imagine how it would have been played up if the shoe was on the other foot.
read on and weep!

NDP requests inquiry into Emerson floor crossing
Fri 10 Feb 2006 | Printer friendly

OTTAWA
February 10, 2005

Mr. Bernard Shapiro
Ethics Commissioner
Government of Canada
Ottawa ON K1A 0A6

Dear Sir,

Please consider this to be my formal request that your office conduct an inquiry into the conduct of the Member from Calgary Southwest, Mr. Stephen Harper, under Section 8 of the Conflict of Interest Code for Members of the House of Commons in inducing the Member from Vancouver-Kingsway, Mr. David Emerson, to cross the floor and join the Conservative cabinet.

Section 8 of the Conflict of Interest Code for Members of the House of Commons states:

8. When performing parliamentary duties and functions, a Member shall not act in any way to further his or her private interests or those of a member of the Member's family, or to improperly further another person's private interests.

On page eight of your decision on the Grewal-Dosanjh inquiry published on January 25th of this year you wrote:

"… if Mr. Dosanjh had offered a reward or inducement to Mr. Grewal for crossing the floor at this time, he would have been acting and/or attempting to act in such a way as to improperly further Mr. Grewal’s private interests. Either of these would amount to an extremely serious breach of the Members’ Code.”

It is our opinion that the considerable increase in salary, augmented potential pension, staff and assorted perks enjoyed by members of the Cabinet such as a personal car and driver amount to furthering Mr. Emerson’s private interests over what he would have received as an opposition MP. Therefore, in our opinion, Mr. Harper may be in breach of Section 8 of the Conflict of Interest Code and I would ask that you investigate this matter.

Thank you for your consideration.

Peter Julian, MP (Burnaby-New Westminster)
New Democratic Party of Canada

HEY G WEST

if we all spoke quietly and did not raise a fuss...DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WOULD LISTEN?

NOTHING WAKES A PERSON UP FASTER THAN A SHARP SLAP IN THE FACE...THAT IS REALITY MISTER...

TAKE IT FROM AN EX MILITARY MAN WHO USED TO DO YOUR DIRTY WORK FOR YOU...

U MISTER ARE ONE OF THE MANY WHO ESPOUSE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS WHILE CHILDREN A WORLD AWAY AND OUT OF YOUR SIGHT ANDF MIND DIE....

U AINT NO USE IN A FIGHT IF YOU AINT GONNA USE YOUR GUN BOY...BUT YOU MAY BE USEFUL AFTER STICKING THE CORPSES TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE DEAD AND NOT JUST PLAYIN DEAD

AS 4 ME...I'M GONNA BLAST AWAY ALL IN MY PATH(metaphorically of course...geeze,some people ...eh?)

BUT LOOK AT THE POSITIVE SIDE BUDDY...VULGAR CANNON FODDER LIKE ME MAKES YOUR WORLD A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE...AND AFTER I DIE...YOU CAN ENJOY MY LABOURS AND SACRIFICES AS CAN MY CHILDREN...JUST DON'T PISS MY CHILDREN OFF...CAUSE THEY KNOW HOW TO FIGHT AS WELL

UNDERSTANDME

As I said, most people here post under a persona. If that's the one you want to adopt, don't let me stop you. I don't think you understood that my remarks were in resonse to a particular part of what 'Wallace' had said. If caps lock is broken on your keyboard don't hold it against me!
No hard feelings!

UNDERSTANDME

YORE HERTING MY EYES AND MY EERS> I CANT READ YORE POSTS ANYMORE.

Emerson has said again he won't resign. So, what if he stays, and everybody gets tired and gives up? Will he get booed everytime he appears in Vancouver? How will his staff handle the many requests from his constituents? I mean on the ordinary things with which constituents ask their MP's for help. How is going to function as an MP?

I mean, he can hobnob with the Olympics guys all he wants and can try to solve softwood (which he failed at as a Liberal) but how will be be as a day to day MP? I just can't see this working weel for anyone, himself included.

adopting a PERSONA and scribbling naughty epithets is not my STYLE...

BUT THERE ARE MANY THAT ADOPT THESE FORUMS FOR THEIR VITRIOLIC(gee did i spell that correctly...cause i know that certainly pisses me off reading mistake after mistake)OUTPOURING OF FRUSTRATION...and that is ...exactly what these FORUMS are for...DISCOURSE FOR THE COMMONERS...CAUSE THEY JES WON'T LET PEEPLE LIKE MEE ONA CBC OR DUH GLOBAL NETWERK CAUSE...WELL WE'RE JES TOO COMMON...

THE ERUDITE LIKE...WHATS DAT NEWFIE GUY ONNA CBC...THAT USES DEM TWENTY FIVE DOLLAR WORDS(thats canuck bucks)ya see...even the mother corp. is an elitist bunch.

that many, on these sites have READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEMS,is very apparent...

because I TAKE A SNIPPET of your discourse and add my thoughts doesn't mean...THAT'S WHAT I AM GONNA LIVE BY...IT MEANS THAT'S WHAT I AM THINKING OF AT THE MOMENT...

THAT OLD SAYING FROM WHATSIZNAMES WHORE...I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SAY,BUT WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH,YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT...IS ALWAYS ON A FREE MANS MIND...
AS AN EX SOLDIER I KNOW HOW THINGS WORK WHEN IT COMES TO INSTITUTIONS....FIRST KISSING THIS ASS THAT THAT ASS THEN THOSE ASSES...YA TIRE YOUR LIPS OUT REAL FAST..

SO IT POPS INTO MY MIND WHAT ANOTHER SAYS ABOUT EMERSON BEING AN MP AND ACTUALLY DOING SIMPLE SHIT FOR HIS CONSTITUENTS...GET A BRAIN...THERE ARE FLUNKIES TO DO THAT...AND RARELY DO THEY DO THEIR JOBS WELL...anyone seeing the big cheese...is a big cheese

THE FORUM IS ONE OF DYNAMIC PASSAGES TO PERUSE AND COMMENT ON...WITH ELEGANCE...WITHOUT...
WITH VITRIOL...AND WITHOUT....REAL SIMPLE

JUST LIKE UNDERSTANDING...EMERSON IS JUST A SIDEBAR..............THE REAL ******* IS HARPER AND HIS SANCTIMONIOUS PONTIFICATION STATING TO ALL...............................

THINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE.............in my mind the only thing that's gonna change is the position they are gonna screw us in...

i just hope there's lotsa foreplay...cause a DRY HUMP is painful...

AND THESE CLOWNS(STOCK DAYS JUST DOWN THE ROAD FROM ME)ARE NOT..............EXPERIENCED

UNDERSTANDME

I really don’t want to pursue this. I will add only that I don’t really care what kind of a military man you are or whether your exploits are imaginary or real. I doubt your military experiences were in any way comparable with the five years my father spent in Europe during that little contretemps from 1939 to 1945. I’ll wager you didn’t spend much time with him in Italy, France, Belgium and Holland on his ‘grand tour’ and I bet you didn’t spend Christmas of 1943 in a tent hospital in Tunis either. So, I’ll take my lessons in military experience and etiquette from someone other than your own good self, thank you very much.

I’m grateful I haven’t had to serve with a gun in my hand and have nothing but respect for the military. Unfortunately, not everybody in every occupation reflects admirably on his or her profession all the time. If you’re interested in shooting fish in a barrel, I can suggest several places where you can do that.

One thing my Dad did tell me about his military adventures was that you have to be very careful about friendly fire. In addition, he mentioned that an awful lot of officers had a strange tendency to sustain wounds in their nether regions. Funny that!

Funny That!

Geeze..u Don't Want To Pursue...but You Do...

Must Be One Of Those That Thinks Oneupsmanship In Dialog Is The Educated Mans Battlefield...

My Father Was In The Polish Underground,while Still A Teen...

Me...i Spent Five Years.in The Canadian Military...then Seeking Action Went To Viet Nam...three Tours...came Back Got A Masters In English Lit...have Done Security And Training For Several Nations...the One I Like The Most Is Next Door...but Nowadays ...i'm Persona Non Grata...oh Well! Always Watch Who You Drink With !

So I Guess You're Practising You're Spinmeister Talents To Hopefully Catch The Eye Of Some Lackey That Peruses These Pages For His Political Masters...

I Guess We Got Your Persona Down....eh?

If You Were Taught Any Military Etiqutte By Your Dad ...you Should Know When To Advance/talk...when To Retreat/hold Your Tongue...because If You Keep Pursuing And You Don't Have The Munitions/grey Matter...your Sol

Do you? Are you just here to see how many times you can say the word 'whore' before you get banned?

Offer something besides your indignation, profanity and other assorted nonsense and then people will take you seriously.

No spin. End of conversation. Maybe your father knew some of the Poles who led the Canadian tank group that closed the Falaise Gap.

I think you were out of line, period. And my Dad, bless his heart, in the old folks home where he's living out his last few forgotten years would agree with me.

Problem I'm trying to deal with is that these kinds of forums can easily descend into the kind of thing Jim Brady talks about here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/11/AR2006021100840.html

YOUR INDIGNATION M CLIFT IS THAT OF A NON PERTICIPANT...UNTIL THEY STEP IN THAT PILE OF THAT STEAMING DOG DOOOOOOOOO........

CAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION...THEN THEY YELP AND YAP OFF LIKE SOME PUPPY THAT'S HAD IT'S TAIL STEPPED ON BY ITS MASTER...

MY USAGE OF THE WORD WHORE...IS, UNDER THE CHARTER OF RIGHTS... MY RIGHT TO THE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION...NOTHING PROFANE THERE EINSTIEN.

now coming to the aid of an ally with an empty gun...WELL YOU MUST BE A HARPER SYCHOPHANT...
U A BIBLE THUMPIN WHORE???NOW THINK FOR AWHILE ,I KNOW YOU PROBABLY THINK THIS IS A TRICK QUESTION.

YES I CAN HEAR THE SWEAT BREAKING OUT ON YOUR BROW...YOU FROM KELOWNA AS WELL...WE GOT SO MANY RIGHT WING SYCHOPHANTS HERE ...YOU MIGHT THINK THAT YOU WERE BACK IN GERMANY IN THE TWENTIES AND THIRTIES...

AND G WEST... MY UNCLE WAS WITH MONTY IN AFRICA ,THEN AT CASINO...HE ALSO WAS A SCHOLAR THAT HAD TO PICK UP A GUN...INSTEAD OF TEACH..

SO YOU SEE...WE LEARNED TODAY THAT THE FIGHT FOR...OUR RIGHTS...OUR EXPRESSION...OUR FREEDOMS..........IS NEVER ENDING.

roll out the guilottine and show the bastards how their heads bounce

To all participants. I apologize for feeding the troll.

'Understandme'

And your point is?

If you'd take the time to actually read what's been written here since these posts started on Feb 9 you might understand where I come from and what I believe and what Michael Clift believes too, for that matter. (Not that he needs me to make that point - I have no idea who he is or where he lives but I have read what he's posted and he is no Harper apologist.)

You do yourself and your ideas, whatever they are, no credit in your current frame of mind.
Surprising though you may find it, I don't think these posts and conversations are going to make much difference in dealing with the issues I'm concerned about or in responding to the things you're upset about either.

There needs to be a better way to ensure all Canadians have a government they can be proud of serving. I don't know what that is but I'm pretty clear you'd make your case a lot more effectively if you took a deep breath now and again.

I said at the start of this, no hard feelings and that's still the way I feel. But you know, if this kind of thing is going to continue I'll bow out. So, if you're going to continue to vent, I'll bid you a pleasant goodbye, I have a good book to read and this nonsense is a waste of time.

People sometimes ask me why I do not vote. It used to be a long Godwinian story. Now I can just point to a piece of crap named David Emerson. Truly, the man is the scum of the Earth.

FEEDING THE TROLL!

YA GOTS ME GIGGLING LIKE A LITTLE SCHOOLGIRL...

now we can clearly see...YOUR FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION...IS CLEARLY SUPERIOR TO MINE

I POINTED OUT HARPERS PONTIFICATING ON WHAT A CHANGE HE WAS GOING TO WOW US MERE MORTALS WITH!
AND WHAT HAPPENED??? HARPER SCREWED UP BIGTIME...BUT LIKE THE WEASEL HIS TYPE IS,HIS ARROGANCE AND SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS WHAT PISSES MOST OF US OFF...THAT OPPORTUNISTIC WHORE EMERSON SLIPPED INTO BED WIOTH THE TORIES IS A SIDEBAR...SO IS FORTIER...

WHAT IS NOT A SIDEBAR ARE THE QUESTIONS ON HOW MUCH THESE OPPORTUNISTIC WEASELS WILL COST US WHEN THEY ARE PENSIONED OFF...REMEMBER HOW GENEROUS GOVERNMENT PENSIONS ARE TO POLITICIANS...CAUSE THE VOTE INCREASES FOR THEMSELVES EVERY BLOODY TIME THEY CAN...

so if you psuedo intellectuals would have read my posts and UNDERSTROODME...perhaps your intellectual standing in the community(besides your mutual sychophancy)would be a little higher than others think it should be...

BUT AS I KEEP SAYING...SOME PEOPLE HAVE REAL READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEMS...

so go read...the troll is gonna relax in the kelowna sun...on my deck with a coffee/kaluha
and keep writing on my faithful laptop...and hope that i get more POLITICALY CORRECT PSUEDO INTELLECTUALS ON MY LINE...SOMETIMES I THINK THIS IS ALMOST AS MUCH FUN AS STEELHEADING...BUT I DOUBT YOU TWO WEENIES WOULD KNOW WHAT GOES ON DURING THAT HOLY EVENT

CIAO BEBE

The Dean used to be a great Steelhead River - spent the summer of 1969 there - on that we can agree! I think Doman screwed it up with logging roads and their booming ground at Kimsquit. That was a real tragedy.

With regards to the Emerson scandal, and it is now appearing to be a full-fledged scandal, there are a number of questions that beg to be answered.

Firstly, events such as these do not occur without some willingness, prior discussion and a degree of back channel chatter going on. If we are to believe Mr. Emerson, this came out of the blue from a conversation initiated by Mr. Reynolds. But how did Mr. Reynolds know there was a deal to be had? Who really initiated these discussions? Obviously someone outside the circle of Harper, Reynolds, Emerson and Bill Graham knew something was up. Were the back channels involving the forest industry executives and provincial politicians?

Secondly, we are now led to believe that prior to the election there was or at least appears to have been an immenent deal surrounding the softwood lumber issue. Of course nothing in writing and from first glance the potential deal was hidden from public view as the minister thought it might negatively affect the election outcome. In what way? What was the problem with the deal that the minister had concerns with? Did the minister ensure the PMO at the time was up to speed on what was happening through the diplomatic back channels? This is an issue of national importance one would think that the final decision on whether to go public would be in the hands of the PMO rather than the minister. It would seem more likely that the PMO would want the information in the public domain during an election, to be seen to be doing something other than bashing the U.S. Administration.

I would have to question the minister on the handling of this information, I know for a certainty that there are communities in this country that voted against the government because they were not seeing or hearing any information on this file. Communities that are dependent upon the resolution of this issue. The minister must now come clean on his views as to why the deal was not doable in his opinion. What was the impact of his decision then and his decision now to ignore the wishes of the voters in his riding? What is he hiding?

Finally, Mr. Emerson wants to explain his decision in/at a "dignified forum." I think it is safe to assume that forum will be the safety of a Board of Trade meeting or even with the editorial board of one of the major dailies surrounded by people who did not literally vote for him. Again, it shows his complete disregard and disrespect for the voters. He just does not seem to get it, his actions lacked integrity, honesty, credibility and trust. It maybe that those travelling in the rarified air of corporate Canada and senior politicians can overlook those qualities but the folks that really matter cannot.

In my day to day travels, I have noted that people all over are discussing this issue. It is being discussed in coffee shops, bank line-ups and just about anywhere where people are congregating for their daily chats. The concensus on the street is very definite, he must resign and seek approval from the voters for his actions or just get out of the political arena completely.

Emerson says that in his "face to face" meetings with people he is getting nothing but support (I think this quote was in the Province or the Sun).

Ha! He's been in his Shaughnessy house all weekend. So, the only people he's seen are the good old Socred/Provincial Liberal boys - Jack Poole came by yesterday, today Sam Sullivan came to say hi.

If he stays, as I think he will, the credibility issue will dog him until he quits, presumably just before the next election 16- 18 months from now...

His air of wounded suffering really makes me sick. He doesn't get that he lied to the voters and that's what matters.

Do you notice how this thread suddenly got "attacked" by trolling? Maikeru was one thing - a mere Tory spin doctor with spelling and grammar problems - but this new guy seems clearly to be an "agent confusateur", someone sent in to thwart the fairly logical discussion underway about WHY Emerson's defection is a breach of public trust, and possible indictable and certainly a breach of the conflict guidelines for MPs.

So while we were discussing all that, the reality of the equation got a little too much, and somebody who prefers to type in capitals and call people names suddenly appears out of nowhere.

Don't the Tories have any better talent than this? Well, we already knew they didn't have any talent in their caucus, which is why they had to raid the Liberals and break their own principles concerning the Senate; so maybe it shouldn't be surprising if their rank-and-file shit disturbers don't make much sense. They don't have to. All they have to do is get us to pay attention to their inanities, and they've won.

Ignore them.

it will not matter to EMERSON what we(the great unwashed)want/desire.

his CONTACTS/FRIENDS will always be there because in true political fashion ...there are no differences in big business...

when it comes to FEEDING AT THE TROUGH...its just like the watering holes in AFRICA...to use an example...first the most powerful...then the subordinates...all will drink...then take their turns FEEDING ON THE WEAK...

so,EMERSON,being at the front of the line,sure isn't going to lose any sleep,when he has to take a whiz..........SOMEBODY IS GONNA SAVE HIS PLACE/SPOT...

and any attempt to dislodge EMERSON,will by most experts/political scientists...not suceed

he has not done anything illegal....MORALLY REPUGNANT...YES...

the man epitomizes the essence of a TRUE MACHIVELLIAN PRINCE...

and if you think he is bad...just look at the people who think he is GOOD FOR BUSINESS...

that scares me..................

Hey Skookum

Your Reading Comprehension Is As Pathetic As Your Understanding Of Legal/moral Issues..

Your Holier Than Thou Attitude...speaks Volumes Of Your Lack Of Education...

Yet I Find You Spreading Your Verbal Diahrhea On Every Blog On This Site...

You Must Be A Genius To Know So Much....

I Am Truly Humbled In You Presence...you And Micheal Ignatieff Are Going To Make A Great Pair In The Tory Bastion...

To Skookum;
I would suggest that you might want to re-read some of "Understandmes'" posts but this time remove the hyperbole from his statements. It's the hyperbole that is getting in the way of what he is saying. He is not really disagreeing with the intent of the various posts, he is really bringing to our attention that regardless of all that we are discussing, in his opinion nothing much will change. The Rich and Powerful/Influential will always get what they want and to blazes with rest of us.

The rest of us need to believe that by our dialogues we can in some small way create the environment for change. Who knows maybe our posts are read by guys like Mike Smythe/Peter Warren etc who get to have a venue to come up with questions to ask that they may not have thought of.

By the way, has anyone heard from Ron Erwin lately. As much as I dislike and disagree with his opinions I do need to have that blood boiling fix every once in awhile.

understand me if you keep using caps or shouting people will ignore you in a hurry, you seem to think you are the only one who deserves an opinion because your dad was at casino well pal mine was at Ortona with the RCDs as a scout from beginning to end.

When his outfit got wiped out on an assault on a gun implacement on the Agean(I think) the four survivors were given the option to transfer and he went to the BCDs where he drove tank in the Liri Valley, The Gothic or Hitler Line, Belgium and Holland, lost seven of them to enemy fire, we all have stories but that does not mean we have the right to shout on this site.

I heard enough horror stories growing up listening to my Dad and his war buddies when they were drinking to have little interest in joining the Army unless it was to fight to save our country, the biggest threat to our sovereignty btw is coming from south of us and their Canadian wannabes like harper, mulroney and campbell and certain media owners who are in my opinion more concerned about the state of israel than Canada. Lets not forget Daquino and friends.

Anyone know if there is any truth to the rumour hahn used to work for the washington group, like when they built the fast cats? Off topic I know but still interesting.

StanM you asked about Ron Erwin.

From 'The Company of Others: Stories of Belonging'

commentor: David Beers

Ron Erwin: Are you referring to the woman in the photo essay, Erin, as "out to lunch"? If so, your cruelty has no place on The Tyee. And it fits into a pattern of willful refusal to engage constructively with what The Tyee publishes. I'm not sure why you come to this site and would invite you consider finding a different online community. Rockyvoids, I'm not sure whether you took the time to review the photo essay that accompanies Saul's piece. If you did, I'm not sure how you could characterize the article as drivel. Honestly, editing The Tyee can try one's hope for creating a thoughtful forum. Our writers and photographers pour their intellect and energies into the expressions they bring to this forum. On a morning like this, reading the first two posts off the top, I really do have to wonder about the need in some people to immediately disparage such work presented in good faith.

thanks Woody I wondered what happened to ronnie, been offline for awhile working up here and on night shift so I am a little disconnected, glad to hear David Beers has removed ronnie and his diatribe of useless rhetoric.

URSUS

a bear that can't read...TYPICAL...

anyone...with any intelligence...can READ

the problem with sites like these...there are to many responders that HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY HAVE READ...IT'S CALLED...READING COMPREHENSION.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I SAY...I AINT FORCE FEEDING YOU AM I???

your holier than thou attitude is common in people that don't have a clue what the other is saying...so you take offence...

my opinion is THE SAME AS MANY ON THIS AND OTHER BLOG SITES...so i am not PUSHING MY OPINION IN ANYONES FACE...as a matter of fact you can check what the others who have questioned my motive have posted...THEY ARE THE SAME OPINIONS...SEEMS CERTAIN PEOPLE HERE LIKE NAME CALLING....AND SPREADING THEIR VERBAL DIAHRHEA AS MUCH AS THEY CAN,,,

save yourself the EMBARRASSMENT...READ ALL THE POSTS ON THE EMERSON SUBJECT...U WILL SEE WHO THE SO CALLED SHIT DISTURBERS ARE...

but then...YOU GOT READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEMS...

AND IF CAPS IS YELLING...MORONS ARE A DIME A DOZEN...

He's a fine example for all of us to follow but outside politics we'd be fired, prosecuted and fined. Certainly, we'd have to return the $97g's What a life these guys lead!

yes the caps are yelling or shouting but mostly just being an a hole or trying to be a bully with all your rhetoric about your back ground which no one reallys cares about but you, if it is even true, most of the people I know who have a background like the one you claim will only admit to it when asked directly and even then they say very little little and I have been around a lot of ex military in construction.

My problem is not with your opinion as we are all here to express our opinions, but with the shouting and intimidation rhetoric!

Like...

HEY G WEST

if we all spoke quietly and did not raise a fuss...DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WOULD LISTEN?

NOTHING WAKES A PERSON UP FASTER THAN A SHARP SLAP IN THE FACE...THAT IS REALITY MISTER...

TAKE IT FROM AN EX MILITARY MAN WHO USED TO DO YOUR DIRTY WORK FOR YOU...

Oh ya and the one about liking the country next door more! Well pal I don't like the

Ignore him

Keep talking about Harper and Emerson.

oops wasn't finished that one anyway you get my point was looking for your post about the country next door to be sure it was yours when I accidently posted and was going to add that I think the americans are our biggest threat right now so why would you like them so much?

when someone asks for history so they can asess the veracity of your comments...do you not give a short history...IF YOU WANT TO BE CONSIDERED CREDIBLE???

THE PERSONA REMARK is indicative of g west's writing style...read his other posts on this site...he is a regular fountain of knowledge.
yet his attacks on others is clearly evident.

but his and others comments are verbal diahrhea...CAUSE ONCE YOU SAY SOMETHING ONCE
THAT SHOULD BE THE END...but i guess they don't have a social life...THIS IS IT!

then again these kind of SPINMEISTER ANTICS throw people off their scent ...check out how many people they have called spinmeisters.

like i keep saying...roll out the Guillotine and show these bastards how their heads bounce

oh! i was talkin bout ALL the TORIES...

I hope that guy from the Robbins group who claimed to be researching the home/source IP addresses of those posting here is still doing his work, and that it was for real.

Interesting, for example, if the identity of UnderstandMe turns out to be, hmm, too young to have fought in WWII for instance. Whatever; it's his schtick and we can leave him to spew out more; it's just like UseNet, where useful conversations would be dragged down by rabble/garbage-spewing fools. The Chinese Communist Party were particularly adept at this in places like talk.politics.tibet, but once you recognize the pattern it's easy to kill-filter.

Reality remains: The Tories have shown they have no respect for the will of the electorate in Vancouver-Kingsway. By extension of that as a perfect test-case, we can also assume they have no respect for the will of the electorate at large. Actual democratic reform? Dead in the water as of Emerson's and Fortier's appointment, that's my verdict unless the public really starts hitting Tory MPs with demands to table electoral reform legislation in the next sitting of Parliament and no later.

We shouldn't have to wait until 2020 or 2030 to get a new electoral system; we need one by 2007. For the next election, that is. Not one where Harper can take advantage of the plurality system which would allow him (as with anyone else) to form a majority despite having only a minority of the electorate supporting him. THIS MUST STOP.

The media and the party hacks will trot out the counter-arguments just as they did with BC-STV, and in the same way that some of them are making excuses for Emerson (Sam Sullivan's own election being somewhat semi-democratic, so his endorsement of Emerson today means NOTHING).

Fine in a coalition House - where all parties are permanently in the minority - to form a cabinet across party lines. That's one reason non-plurality voting systems have more public participation; people know their views will be heard, and even a small-party politician has a shot at a high profile if they're intelligent/talented enough.

Hard for the forest companies to handpick candidates, though; and harder to get them to do your bidding, too...like switching to the governing party because ForestMoney wants power in government, not Opposition.

And I return and restate my original observation that the whole logic of "it's better to have a cabinet minister/government member in your riding because you get more dough that way" is inherently vulgar and obscene, and an outright endrosement of the system of pork-barrel that our current electoral system encourages.

You shouldn't have to have a cabinet minister or a government backbencher in order for your riding to get government funding and other attention. You have a right to it. Emerson just gave us the thumb, indicating that he's not concerned with making the country more democratic and that he's willing to buy into the pork-barrel; even using that as his justification.

Sickening; just sickening. And, methinks, possibly illegal.

So why is it in the face of fairly clear evidence of possible wrongdoing by any one of Emerson, John Reynolds or Stephen Harper (or, as another post has suggested, someone in the backroom corridors of the BC Liberal Party), why have the RCMP not launched an investigation as they were so eager to do with Ralph Goodale? The evidence in the Goodale Affair was entirely circumstantial and is still unsubstantiated; the evidence in the Emerson Affair is all over the place.

Could it be the RCMP are playing favourites?

This was posted by the self proclaimed Brain two days ago regarding the much vaulted recall petition started by The Tyee: "There are over 8500 now and growing in two days. CBC and the Globe has mentioned it. Lets see it hit 100,000+."

Now after four days, there are roughly 14,800 signatures. 4300 per day for the first two days, then 3200 per day for the next two days. As is to be expected in these matters, this issue is running out of steam and darned quickly. At this rather expodential rate of deceleration, the anticipated 100,000th signature should occur, well, never. And this after national coverage in the much maligned MSM.

The best thing that Harper and Emerson et al can do is take the provincial NDP tactic from during the illegal teachers strike. Run and hide like a bunch of scared little school girls on a stormy night until the whole things blows over.

As I have stated before, I do not agree with what has happened, but is it worth setting your hair on fire for? In the big picture, definately not.

Just a footnote to the censorship note that was discussed briefly earlier today, the sole reason why I thought The Tyee could be faulted was their removal of the challenge issued by Mr Robbins. To remove the comment by Simple Sammi was obviously necessary and they are not to be faulted for allowing it to be posted as they have deliberately set this forum up as live posting. But where I took issue was the removal of Mr Robbins posts regarding the potential for a libel suit. He gave a set of conditions which he expected The Tyee to adher to, one of which was a posted apology. Maybe he was wrong for asking for this, but to apparently arbitrarily remove this post was wrong. It would have made more sense to leave it up there for posters to make their own mind up on. Hence the reference to censorship.

Wallace asks:

Because the point was in reference to the appointment of a senator from PQ that was resident in Montreal.

Wallace comments:

This comment is racist, murdock. Offering inducements, political whoring, and raking in the cash are endemic in our political system. A person's ancestry has nothing to do with this discussion. If that were the case, the lowest of the of the scum sucking pigs would be the Presbyterian Scots and French Catholics who built this rotten system. An apology would suffice, murdock.

No appology needed nor will one be coming, since the quote is directly from the transcrips. Dosanj made multiple comments to Germont regarding introductions to various persons of influence in the punjab.

skookum 1

could it be the RCMP are playing favourites?

collecting home IP's

TO YOUNG TO HAVE SERVED IN WWII...

your pathetic attempt to CRITICIZE my postings
SHOW YOU READ SQUAT...

your pathetic attemps to have CREDIBLE DISCOURSE ON LEGAL/MORAL; ISSUES...shows you are indeed lacking in SUBSTANCE.

reading your various posts across this site show your lack of any real UNDERSTANDING of any of the issue...yet you plod on...spreading your vacous ramblings...

come on GENIUS...what are the legal precedents for any actions???recall???indictment???ANYTHING,EINSTIEN................

YOUR SYCHOPHANTIC MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY...OH! I FORGOT...do you understand what those words mean???oh!I just kiddin...i know yer i reel jeanus...

ALL I GOTTA DO IS READ YOUR POSTS AGAIN AND I WILL BE ENLIGHTENED...

I IZ SO BLESSED TA BE IN YER PRESENCE...where else i gonna learn bout conspiracy theories???

Gloomy,

Excellent for Peter Julian, MP.

Sounds like some of the MP's are willing to get on their hind legs and try to push.

My cynical mind says this:

The NDP will be indignant about all of this, shouting loudly (as it was Waddell that likely would have taken the Van-King seat had Emerson shown his colors).

The LiEberals are not ready nor interested in any further election campaining right now, so any 'censure' of either Harper or of Emerson in the House is not likely to see thier support.

The BQists want to get into Provincial Governance and shall shy away from ethical problems like this so no 'censure' vote is likey to be supported by the BQ either.

Without the support of others in the House of Commons this issue will simply not advance, whether it has merit or not.

I am not happy about this either, I am just practical.

juskatladude you stated The Coquahalla Highway and Vancouver’s SkyTrain Rapid Transit are two examples of projects which were made possible (if not necessary) by Expo. Hard to argue that either of them are not important to all of the province now.

How can it be possible that Vancouver’s SkyTrain Rapid Transit, is IMPORTANT to all of B.C. Explain that to someone who lives in Pouce Coupe,would you please.

Excellent observations, marta, the day-to-day of the real life of an MP is not on this man, Mr. Emerson's day timer.

If there are any other bloggers out there in Mr. Emerson's constituency, whom have tried to get his assistance during the last parliament, perhaps they could enlighten us as to his performace?

Skookum1 laments about the system of governance in Canada:

This was part and parcel of what formed the Reform Party of Preston Manning, what is now called the Conservative Party of Canada has only a shadow of those origins left in it. The merger of the Reform/Alliance and Conservatives ended the hope of true electoral and system reform in Canada for this generation of politicians. Some who remain may agitate for it but the real game is power now and like the LiEberals have played this game for so long, so shall any who come to drink the waters of 24 Sussex Drive.

further thunder relates:

Could it be the RCMP are playing favourites?

The RCMP, like the Canadian Forces (ghawd that is such a lame name), have been 'reigned in' by their purse-strings at the Treasury Board. First the CF in 1968, then the RCMP in 1973, just as you now see the military going nearly begging (seeing Corporals, their wives and children in a food bank lineup because the poor pay was not enough to feed the family), so shall it be with the RCMP in not so long a time.

The only stop-gap was the 'independance' of the Commisioner of the RCMP, no more. Since the adoption of the post as and ADM (Assistant Deputy Minister) this makes the post an appointee of the Prime Minister.

Now in order to keep the ongoing money flow going into the RCMP from Treasury Board the Commissioner is not in the best interest of his rank and file constables to piss in the PM's corn-flakes.

Do not expect the RCMP to do much about any current, sitting Prime Minister until the proper situation of a truly 'independant' RCMP and Military returns.

Given the state of affairs in Ottawa, I predict this will only change the day after the revolution.

To David Beers:
Thank you for updating me on Ron Erwin. As a matter of interest I had a look at the article in question and the subsequent posts. I must admit to being in awe of the exchange between Bailey and Nightbloom. Between the two of them I believe they were able to communicate their thoughts and beliefs extremely well in a most civil and free flowing discussion.

I sometimes think that those of us who post comments truly do have to slow down in our responses to ensure that we understand that we are not immune from slander and libel issues. We must always be aware that this is not a private communication and that we can be held accountable for what we say.

the RCMP are a federal force...they will never be INDEPEDENT...they are the LAW on the hill...
just like the swiss guard is the law in the vatican...

their duty is to the queen/prime minister/country...but they can be hired out...like mercenaries...to the provinces

when there is a federal call such as the war measures act...they protect the POLITICIANS...

so don't hold your breath concerning the QUEENS COWBOYS being an independent entity...

they serve their masters well...AND LIKE DAVID EMERSON...they are always well looked after...

CAUSE THEY KNOW WHERE THE BODIES ARE BURIED(metaphorically speaking...then again?)

I'm here for a minute because I see there some things which need addressing - then I'm out of here to pursue that social life 'understandme' says he thought I lacked.
1. Skookum1 - you're mistaken about 'understandme' -jeez I wish you'd pick a shorter handle - he never claimed to have served in WWII;
2. juskatladude - don't know what agreement was reached between the editor and Glen Robbins but I expect it meant the Tyee would take down all the offensive remarks as well as the conditions and references to a slap suit;
3. In my case, the only thing about my persona that's any different from the person you'd meet if you came to my home in Victoria is my name - G West is a handle;
4. My allusion to 'persona' was more in reference to what I thought you were effecting, 'understandme' - I'll happy apologize if you'll just turn off the damn caps lock;
5. If anyone thinks I'm a Tory they haven't been paying attention; and
6. Prior to the last month or so I'd never posted to a comment board like this;
7. I wish I felt this kind of forum could make a difference, alas, I don't think it will.

Goodnight, ladies and gentlemen - as the case may be.

My own comment distracted by my parentheses about Sam Sullivan:

I meant to go on that the same element will "go after" any electoral reform proposed to replace the current electoral system, and will also defray much of the public constitutional debate - since they're already tight with the media, and know how to play them, their power in the coming political reform debates will be considerable. But public sentiment for change is extremely strong - despite the heavy "anti" mobilization against BC-STV, it still passed a larger majority of the vote than any prime minister in living memory*, and more importantly and notably 77 out of 79 ridings.

An eerie figure when you consider the 2001 election results, isn't it? And also the strength of that by-constituency figure is that it equals the mandate invoked in 2001 to justify the government's/Premier's vulgar and monarchical swagger in ignoring the conventions concerning the Leader of the Opposition on the basis of that strong of an endorsement in the House? Riding-by-riding, there's no doubt that the referendum was a victory; yet we allow "them" to call it a defeat.

It was not a defeat and they knew it, and they're running scared. Proportional rep is seen as a compromise because of the clout it still allows political parties, and the irrelevance of independent candidates, but still it's one those with a vested interest in the plurality/FPTP system are willing to work with rather than risk another elimination ballot or second-choice ballot of any kind. Which would actually give power to the electorate, and allow all voices to be heard, and not just those with media smarts and big budgets to throw around to crap advertising all over us like noisome seagulls.

(That wasn't a quote in italics; I had no other way to indent the footnote)

The refrendum, I repeat was NOT a defeat despite the special technicality rigged into the original legislation that set the referendum bar higher than in any other BC referendum. The referendum's huge vote, and that 77 out of 79 figure, was the sound a bell tolling, telling "them" that despite their best efforts to undermine public support for the proposed electoral changes, they still almost didn't win. And that they know the public wants change, and they want it sooner than later. So what else to talk about?

Anything but, if they can help it. The Emerson-Fortier Affair could be their deathknell as it seems to be getting people riled about the accountability of politicians, and raised the level of public cynicism about politics in general; or it could be a smokescreen or distraction; something planned, even, to be gotten out of the way as soon as possible because even scarier/weirder things are coming down the pipe.......

An elected Senate is by comparison a lollipop floating in the air that seems tasty to look at but might be kind of sticky and messy once you actually catch one and eat it. I think the Tories will pitch the Senate as their big political reform thing - for the next election, not before then - and this will be a distractor from the actual more pressing issue of the reform of the Commons and the electoral system used to select it.

I don't even think they'll get to tabling discussions on something like the Citizens Assembly or another mode by which to create/choose the process by which electoral changes are deliberated and brought forward. This is going on in the provinces, but I don't think the Tories have the balls to do it at the federal level; their only chance for a majority - and the Republicans' only chance for a Tory majority in Canada - is if FPTP is left in place. Any post-electoral reform Parliament would be a coalition of different parties, and not so easily subject either to the whims of big business, or of Washington.

And let's face it; this is all about oil, folks - Alberta's - and who controls it. Might as well wake up to it - we're centre-stage geopolitically now because of the oil; same as we used to be as the bomb-catching range during the days of ICBMs.

But here's some more on Senate reform to chew about that Tory strategists might not have looked at closely yet. We've all suspected that proportional representation may be implemented in any formal Senate reform, given general Senate elections in a province rather than a by-seat replacement method as Harper has currently weaseled about - it should be expected, of course, that all

I may be wrong and Senate reform may be right smack-dab at the head of the Throne Speech. But I'm not holding my breath for it, and it's coming up on the Harper agenda long before actual electoral reform ever will. But surprise, surprise, if a non-plurality method - elimination-round of proportional or something else - is used to choose Senators, this will set a standard for their public legitimacy as democratically-valid figures that MPs holding only 33-39% of a riding's vote can claim. MPs, especially backbenchers, may become irrelevant because of the more direct political relationship of Senators with the electorate that such a system implies.

It also implies that the Senate will not be the creature of the Prime Minister in the same way as the Commons is, and the public will likely choose it that way (the wisdom of having one scoundrel watch the other, p'rhaps, rather thanb hiring both from the same bunch).

Also affected is the constitutional priniciple which makes the Upper House auxiliary to the Lower House, as has become the case in Britain, is a convention that arose from the hereridtary seats in the Upper House, and then the bought-and-paid for peerages that have arisen in recent centuries, and the life peerages and various appointments/elevations to the peerage of more recent times.

Point is, if the electoral sytem used to select the Senate has more political validity to the public than that used to select the Commons, a Prime Minister who does not control the Upper House cannot rule as Prime Ministers currently do (by fiat and droit de roi). The threat to the centralized power of the PMO of an empowered Upper House, independent of the political interference of the Prime Minister, and also the source of potential rivals for the office (as with cabinet seats).

True, the leader of the largest party of a proportional Senate would not be directly elected; neither is the Prime Minister. And his/her voice would only represent a complex calculatio-by-default of the combined provincial/regional vote proportions and the seats created by them. But a concerted Senate, with a strong working relationship because of (presumably) ongoing minority/coalition conditions there, would be a crucible for political credibility and higher profile for provincial politicians-cum-Senators.

The Senate's power because of its newly-democratic condition, proportional or not, might be hard to resist, and very hard for the Prime Minister to defy. And it will also be a place where the party machines are more likely to work together than they do in the current mudslinging festival called the Commons.

A proportional Senate - or any elected Senate - also places the onus on the feds to table electoral reform discussions towards an eventual referendum towards later implementation. With a high bar, and lots of time to counter-propaganda it. That's why despite all the high-and-mighty talk, and the Triple-E agenda of the original Reform Party, happily abandoned along with the name and (hopefully, the hope) the rep, is nowhere on the Tory horizon. Harper's willing to appoint Senators elected by their provinces, but there's not one blip in BC or anywhere else about holding Senate elections; apparently we have to wait for the current lot to die off or something.

Hopefully Larry Campbell (pls take note, Larry, if you're reading this) might weigh in on all this, and help take the Senate down around him by tabling debate and committee reports on how to initiate Senate elections, either by federal mandate or by encouraging the provinces/Premiers to get with the program and field legislation to create Senate elections in their provinces. (I can't remember - did Larry C. support BC-STV or not?).

But as with letting the political parties influence the electoral reform process, it's like letting the fox watch the henhouse; why should it be the Premiers, and not the people, of hte provinces who decide how their elected Senators are to be chosen? Why should the provincial governments/Premiers have ANYTHING to do with it?

They already have enough constitutional clout with all those incessant first ministers' conferences and ministerial summits they're holding all the time (effectively implementing Charlottetown but without the formalities; which is how "they" dealt with that vote). Why put another political middleman between the public and the actual decision-making process? Oh, right, it's better for business, and keeps the established parties happy. Right...

Here's a Big Idea, for any of you Senators reading this. Hopefully some of actually ARE reading the public discussions and blogs, and not just your party researchers. So here's a good one for ya, and I'm serious:

The Big Idea is for some brave Senator to build support for a motion in the Senate to collectively resign their seats, pending replacement by democratically-elected Senators for Senate elections to be held on a certain date.

I suspect the Senate may have, in fact, the power to do such a thing to itself; certainly at least to stage the collective resignation (without allowing re-appointments to fill their ranks built into the legislation), if not for the actual designation of a date for elections which might be the actual provenance of the Governor-General rather than the PMO.

But that would quickly follow, with pressure on the government (or the G-G) to set a date, and for legislation to be tabled either in Parliament or in the provincial legislatures, or implemented across the board.

Would general Senate elections all have to be held on the same date, for instance? Would different provinces be free to use different electoral systems. Would there be at-large seats, province-wide, or senatorial constituencies? The latter, to me, are especially important in being able to fairly represent under-populated areas, whose votes are otherwise overwhelmed.

Here's an idea to save the public money on all this, and it's so obvious it's rather comical. Why not just do it by Order-in-Council as W.A.C. Bennett did after the 1953 election, doing away with the elminiation ballot that almost accidentally threw him and his party into power, and made a new party out of what had been political smoke-and-mirrors mixed with an obscure but dedicated fringe party. Sound familiar? Right, and that's why they don't want to do it, when they could do it tomorrow. "They" in thise case being the Tories, and three weeks ago it was the Liberals, and here in BC the BC Liberals are glad to be passing the buck to the Tories for chiming in on ditching BC-STV, which scared the willies out of the both of them. Now we'll get a party-flavoured proportional system, thanks to Carole James' waffling and her opposition to the 77 out of 79 BC ridings that voted "yes".

I'm also starting to think that something like a primary system for the parties should be mandatory if they manage to block electoral reform and keep the current system in place. The public should have a say in who leads parties as powerful as the Tories and the Grits and even the NDP (who, being democratically minded, should give it some thought and do it ad hoc, thereby pressuring the Big Two to do the same. Come to think of it a Green leadership primary might be a great way for that party to build public interest, and also attract talent and actual political support and more profile.....).

I know all this seems a long way from the Emerson file, although it's certainly right in there on the Fortier matter. But it all comes out of the constitutioanl weaknesses pointed up by the two appointments, and Toews' continuance, and also of the disrespect for democracy and any actual sign of change from "business as usual" in Ottawa.

Harper claimed to be a new guy, with all kinds of positive ideas, but we've now go the goods. The positive, forward ideas about electoral change and poltical reform are all over the place in public discussion; he's just not talking about actually DOING any of them in the short term, and we all know that the political-change inertia in this country resembles molasses, and frozen molasses at that.

Emerson is proof enough of the need for electoral reform, a constitutent's bill of rights, and the ills of political cronyism and the pork barrel. Funny how the Tories have always campaigned so hard against pork, but as soon as they've got into office the FIRST thing they do is dish some out? "We had to, the Liberals had done so much".

Evil begetting evil, and nothing more.

Do not expect the RCMP to do much about any current, sitting Prime Minister until the proper situation of a truly 'independant' RCMP and Military returns.

I do hear what you're saying. But the political opportunity during an election campaign to foment information against a PM who HAS made their budgeting life more difficult; and also was preparing to decriminalize and even legalize self-medication, won't align with US police agendas on those issues, and so on. Police mess in politics in all countries, and many enter politics. Pretending that they're always in the pocket of the paycheque doesn't mean that's the case; they have their means to influence public opinion, and to also do things like launch embarrassing investigations in the heat of an election campaign.

So, OK, they're not going after Harper because he's the boss, supposedly, and they could go after Goodale because the Liberals were in a weakened state. But he's a boss with minority powers, and what matters more is it's not so much my comment about expecting them to willingly investigate the Emerson Affair, but that they've been known to launch investigations on key political figures in the past, including more than a few of our own provincial Premiers (it's an interesting list, by the way....).

I agree about an independent policing commission; elected police commissioners have their own political problems, and they get their own form of political clout over other politicians; but the current control of the PMO/Premier's offices over policing is unacceptable; as is the police's own preference for investigating themselves and avoiding independent review. That's going to be harder to implement than electoral reform, or Seante Reform (see my other Emerson blog).

"But they possibly couldn't have missed the political opportunity during an election campaign to foment information..." etc.

Let's face it - despite the many former police now in politics who are in support of legalization/decriminalization, legalized/controlled prostitution and more, the establishment police ethic is heavily socially conservative and despite all efforts at reform and recruitment continues to be sexist, racist, homophobic and all that other catchy stuff that "social conservatism" is so conveniently euphemstic for. The RCMP propaganda machine is VERY hostile to drug law reform, unless it means harsher sentences and stiffer penalties. So add that to your budget-difficulty axe-to-grind, and I'd say they had good reason to "go after" the federal Liberals. In much the same way that the trumped-up, media-staged Casinogate investigation was launched in BC, and at a critical political moment, too. The timing's just TOO perfect - just like those funny numbers that they claim got them running around the Finance Ministry looking for clues and an invisible crminal......

It's just all too perfect.

And, of course, the RCMP aren't interested in political reform, unless it means stronger central government and one-party governments that are easier to deal with than actually democratic coalition forms of government. So they don't give a sweet diddlywhatzit about the "crimes against democracy" implicit in the Emerson Affair, even though everything from electoral fraud to influence peddling and sale of benefits is implied. As I said, there's certainly more evidence pointing openly to wrong-doing here than there is in the Goodale matter; but it's not the kind of the thing the RCMP want to investigate, and certainly not if it hurts their buddies who are going to put an end to all this drug liberalization nonsense, and get on with the War on Drugs to clean up this place and make its streets as safe as those in the US.....

Who're you calling a gentleman??! I say, twenty paces at dawn, sirrah.....

As Bobb999 has pointed out... this is the next distraction.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...72154&t=TS_Home

And, as noted, what really gets me, is Emersons cherry picking of government intelligence that led him to his CEO position in provincial banks after his stint as treasurer, a blatant corrupt, unethical act as a politician to hop into such public life to exploit such knowledge and connections privately, and then publicly once again only to do it again with forestry reports of this provinces resources, cherry picking his opportunity as CEO with CANFOR, where he scored large with self appointed shares as CEO.

Where Emerson truly became unethical was with the shares issued to him by Teresen when he was a director. We all know what happened to Teresen since... they bought out natural gas services all over this province with David Emersons intelligence learned by government studies on resources...

its one thing to profit off of Canadian resources, even though you are violating ethics of being paid a government salary to keep government information confidential and to not profit off of it, as Honorable David Emerson has repeatedly done. Someone could make an arguement that he declared the income, paid Canadian taxes, whats the big deal? He's smart. Thats one thing...

Its quite another to sell off our resources or ability to keep our resources to US corporations for appointed directorship shares, as was the case with TERESEN. This is perhaps the largest violation of all, because now these gas distribution services don't get taxed here. We've lost this Canadian owned potential corporate profit and taxes for Canadian coffers. Now, it goes down south for a peanuts royalty. David Emerson is an american sellout, as dirty as it gets in politics and his future to butter himself up as savior of the day?

A Softwood deal with the US that was essentially completed under the Libs before the election, courtesy of Bobb999.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...72154&t=TS_Home

Interesting how Emerson and Stronach wind up carrying the can while the guys offering the cabinet positions are invisible. I see it's the Johns who always get let off.
In a minority parliament it doesn't have to be that way. The opposition could insist that Harper fire Emerson from cabinet unless he steps down for a byelection, and make it a confidence issue. Then Harper is faced with asking for a mandate to be hypocritical or accepting that his repeated promises of ethical behavior will have to be met. This opposition action would certainly establish clear ground rules that minority governments have to behave ethically.

so who wants an ELECTION right away??? how is it going to come about???

looking at HARPERS INTELLECTUAL STATUS,suddenly explains it all...he is SMARTER than everyone else...he can SEE THE BIG PICTURE...he can CONNECT ALL THE DOTS...(note INJECT SARCASM )

you get the govt.you deserve...thats why there are so many pissed off...THEY PUT THEIR FAITH IN THE WRONG HANDS...AND THEY GOT STUNG...BIGTIME

Some of the spin coming out lately in the msm to the Emerson fiasco is getting very weird.

Witness today's Globe&Mail with Normal Spector giving us his wisdom on the mess.

It seems Spector, if you beleive a word the puffed up self adorner offers, warned the hapless Emerson not to run in the first place.

The asumption, between the lines is that our good Dr. Spinster felt that Emerson, like himself is just too good to suffer for the good of the little people.

But here is it a week or so after Emerson does the unspeakable and Spector is able to find that the majority of British Columbians support Emerson's sleezy action.

Unfortunately, about the only name Spector could come up with to back his majority claims is one Sam Sullivan, mayor of Vancouver and himself the question of not a little bit of political manipulation ala James Green.

Anticipate another move to Ottawa for our good Dr S.

Today's column is in marked contrast to the eye opener from the Globe's Gary Mason last Tuesday, which painted Emerson as the self-serving sleeze most people in Vancouver-Kingsway now see him as.

Spector again tries to compare Emerson to Belinda Stronach, who was elected a conservative and worked (or tried) with Stephen Harper's team only to be treated like a dumb blonde.

If Emerson was disenchanted with the Liberals why did he pick up the Liberal cloak this time out rather than being honest?

Simple answer. Because he couldn't get elected dog catcher in Van/Kingsay as a Tory.

My last comment on this mess is that it's the people of Vancouver-Kingsway who ought to have the last say on Emerson and it would appear they want it badly.

Skookum1 is another technicolor dreamer:

Recently, the former Mayor of Vancouver, became DaVinci's Senator. He has a load of perks, money and a permanent soap-box from which to preach about whatever he wants to. He only needs to be in the senate chamber on a limited basis (I seem to recall the amount actually being fixed after a Liberal senator was found to be living in Mexico and not having attended a single senate vote in three years).

Tell me Skookum1, if you won a lottery, then had the majority of your neighbors shout at you about it - but not bring any pitchforks or shovels to 'encourage you'; would you give back all the lottery money?

allan writes:

Yup, and they will get another try once the next election is called.

Don't like it? Move. Work to change the system. Revolt. Protest. Or just accept it.

seems the natives of la la land are getting a little restless...

any effigys sporting a blue pinstripe suit and size 24 oxfords being burned yet???

looks like clowns are dressing much better these days...must be trying to emulate that KING OF FOOLS ...DAVID EMERSON

roll out the guillotine...show the bastrds how their heads bounce...

This was the whole point of the old system of post-appointment byelections. Such byelections were not held to choose the composition of the Commons, but to ratify the composition of Cabinet. If the designated governing party couldn't get its candidates for cabinet re-elected it was indeed a vote of non-confidence. It was not the same thing as a vote of non-confidence in the Commons, and not triggering the constitutional requirements there; but definitely an embarrassment for new governments, as well as incumbent/older ones.

Not sure how often such byelections were decided against the government's nominee/appointee, but it's an interesting question. In theory, cabinet members who were so endorsed had even more legitimacy after the byelection than before; of course to make sure they'd get elected they'd be parachuted into "safe" seats, so un-elections were very rare, I'd think.....

No, but if they did bring the pitchforks, torches and shovels and what-not, I think I'd say yes. Unless glorious martyrdom were involved, of course....

The Big Idea still stands for a Senator with High Principle fluttering around inside the cobwebs. I mentioned Larry because I think he's a character and I don't think he's going to treat the Senate as a sinecure; he's by nature an activist, and also known for political grandstanding and some interesting political ingenuity in his tactics.

Doesn't have to be him that perpetrates the Big Idea; and sure, the Senators are all riding in the first-class car on the gravy train. But anyone in the Senate can see the writing on the wall (which says something like "f**k politicians!!") and it would look a lot better on their position in history, individually or collectively, if THEY led the charge towards democratic reform of the Upper House; indeed, of democratic reform in general.

The whole point of the Big Idea is that it's there to be used; a mass Senate resignation tied to measures to force Harper's hand and put his money where his mouth is; seat vacancies will be filled by election, if the provinces have someone waiting. Why it should be the provinces that decide on how such elections are run, and why a Senator-elect should have to wait, well these are mysteries of the Tories' non-agenda on Senate Reform.

Of course, such a mass resignation would ONLY work if the PM's power to appoint Senators was not going to be used to stack the Upper House; much like Reagan firing all the striking air traffic controllers; Harper could just as easily install "scab Senators" to replace the politically-inspired ones; but the political heat on that would make it look even sleazier than Mulroney's expansion of the Senate to create Tory seats.....

Also restored to Emerson was his $70,000 in annual ministerial compensation (bringing his total taxpayer-financed salary to about $215,000 per annum, not including benefits), the chauffeur-driven limousine, the executive office suite and the army of public servants and political staffers anxious to do his bidding.

We need a Canada wide ONE DAY general strike to show these thugs we are the people of a once great country & we can be again!

Skookum1, your latest Big Idea post sounds very much like the original platform material from the Reform Party of Preston Manning.

Do you see yourself willing to take your righteous anger and turn it into a bone-fide movement? Will others follow?

Anger is fine, expressing it with further damage is not.

More protest in the streets will not solve this.

Relevant political or economic action will.

we need a canada wide one day general strike

never gonna happen.........its the TOWER OF BABLE SYNDROME

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN??? how about closing all the borders...closing all the airports...closing all the docks...and when everthing is all closed up tight...TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE...

but wait a minute...we got no military...the RCMP are federal bodyguards and provicial mercanaries...the government has outlawed ownership of guns...GEEZE...YA THINK THEY DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING ???

one day general strike is going to screw you more than the elite...how many of those scumbags got houses/cottages with generators out there in the toolies...geeze...wonder where EMERSON'S hideout is??? probably GORDO'S PLACE....and i bet KLEIN would put him up for awhile...he's got a lotta friends.

roll out the guilottine...show the bastards how their heads bounce...or sit around and whine...

More protest in the streets will not solve this.

Relevant political or economic action will.

I don't seem to be the one calling for revolution, guillotines, etc. What I'm calling for is relevant political action - pressuring MPs and Senators to address political/electoral change; I don't think protests have much effect, so then what? Strong pressure in blogdom, the press/letters, wherever; but most of all to not let the Emerson Affair die, or get shuffled aside by the Tory-friendly press establishment.

roll the guilottines out... and show the bastards how their heads bounce....if this is a call to ARMS ...it is METAPHORICAL

i think it sounds a little more effective than

HEY...GET IN YER VOLVO AND HEAD DOWN TA YER MP's OFFICE...AND YELL AND EGG THE BUGGERS...

god, in the bible , said somewhere ...there will be a wailing of man,a wringing of hands and a gnashing of teeth...geeze...sounds like politics in canada...or in fact anywhere

god also punishes people for no other reason than entertainment...there are passages that no intelligent editor would put in his/her paper...yet the bible is touted by millions a THE GOOD BOOK...do you really BELIEVE everything in the BIBLE...has god been tellin ya ta sacrifice yer firstborn son ???

SO LET US USE THE WORDS WE THINK WILL GENERATE A RESPONSE...and when it comes to communications...unless LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS are pointed in your direction...try to UNDERSTANDME and others who use bombastic hyperbole or plodding inane verbosity,to get those points across...

we are on the same team...

If the people of Vancouver Kingsway do not stand up to this it will simply say to all politicians of all stripes - I can jump ship any time I want to. Sue Emerson for campaign dontations, sue him for every penny he has [and he has a lot].

DON'T LET HIM GET AWAY WITH THIS.

People of Vancouver Kinbgsway UNITE and kick him out.

I wrote the Right Less than Honorable Prime Minister today:

Dear Prime Minister:

I am deeply disappointed in your first days in office, in which you--leader of a minority government--engaged a non-elected party hack to play a part in your cabinet and then, to add insult to injury, enticed a just-elected Liberal to cross the floor and take another cabinet post. What on earth were you thinking, if you were thinking anything at all? That this would go down well for you? That we would applaud your "courageous" decisions?

This is a such a flagrant disregard for "optics" if not for parliamentary propriety, that it makes me wonder if you have anything of substance between your ears. It certainly does not bode well for how Canadians will view your remaining months as our PM.

I would suggest you have a darn good think before each step if you're going to trip yourself up that soon off the mark. Thank goodness you aren't representing us in the speed skating oval, is all I can say.

Michael Cox
Vancouver BC

Murdock, please explain why people in Vancouver/Kingsway ought to wait two friggin' minutes to replace Emerson?

If the man ran knowing he was going to jump ship he was involved in false pretences, plain and simple.

If he was really talked into it by that sleeze Reynolds or by Harper then he has willingly abandoned his constituents for more money and a higher position.

Which best describes it to you Murdock?

How many people in the riding can now trust Emerson to do anything but what he is told to do by Stephen Harper, who has obviously bought him?

The Conservatives came in a very distant third in the riding.

The peoples' choice, my ass!

As I pointed out yesterday, the recall petition can be viewed as a pretty decent bellweather on the lifespan of this controversy. Todays total: 1700, down from 3200 per day the previous two days and 4300 per the first two days.

If that is not enough, surely the Ipsos poll showing an approval rating of 54% for the Conservatives.

Face it kids, it is over. Finito. Done. Move onto the next Big Thing!!

I had to chuckle at the explaination offered up about why the Stronach defection was so much more palitable than the Emerson defection. Apparently she was "treated like a dumb blonde". Well, that would explain the absolute silence around these parts of the internet regarding beloved Belinda much better than the darker, more sinister explaination that her defection kept the NDP in a position of relevance for a few extra months.

Now, talking of silence, where is the shock and indignation on this site regarding the way Jack punted poor old Senator Buzz out of the party this weekend. Seems to be pretty silent around here. But I guess a story about breast implants is of much greater importance than actually reporting on political situations which cast a poor light on the Great Party.

The Peoples Party is pretty quick to give someone the boot if they do not toe the party line. But lets get back to slamming the Conservatives. Sorry for the distraction.

allan inquires:

Legal requirments, unless Emerson is charged with a federally idictable offence there is no reason for him to leave the position of MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR VANCOUVER-KINGSWAY.

Just because you or any other frothing angry elector cannot understand that when you go into the ballot box in a Candian Federal election you do not vote for a Party, you vote for a Person, that person may have some party afiliation, but the LEGAL reality is that you are voting for a person to become the MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT for the riding.

There are some traditions, but with everyone else changing those as fast as their socks, why should polyticks be any different?

nope, again in a 'tradition' erodes situation, which we are in your indignation is based on emotion and not logic or legal text.

Nope. Legally and in fact the constituents still voted for him, if those electors are too uninformed of the legal responsibilities of a MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, that is not anyone else's fault. Take the time to learn about this, stop wasting moral energy here as it will only give you an ulcer.

That Emerson saw another brass ring, the first offered by PM Dithers when he was parachuted into the riding in the first place, the electors of any riding that accept that sort of nonsense get what they vote for - EVERY TIME. So Emerson got another brass ring, whatever the electors think, he will not have to deal with that until the next election.

I don't know, nor care, for had he been running in my riding I would never have voted for him, which in the end is all I can legally do.

Correction, the Candidate that ran with the conservative afiliation came in third, we do not vote for parties in Canada. Thankfully.

Like it or not, the people voted for him, Mr. Emerson, not the LiEberal Party - he had that afiliation (note that the afiliations are in brackets on the ballots - that means they have no legal weight) when the ballots were printed, that is all.

Gee Murdock, you certainly do your legal beagle colleagues a real service laying out the nice, tidy, clean legal realities.

Sorry, if I'm wallowing in emotion here pal, but in a case like this I'd be in front of the line saying screw the lawyers and screw the justice system if this is how it can be so easily manipulated.

Frankly it may well be legal, but it certainly isn't ethical and a politician without ethics is like a snake in the grass.

Hey no offence, I really have no interest in doing anything to you in particular Murdock. You're simply not my type especially since you seem so anally uptight about people thinking outside the bar's box.

murdock

good layout...this is what jack and jill public have to understand...

that allan is so FRUSTRATED like the rest of us and shows it in his post...is indicative of how most canadians act...

the only problem is...WE ARE ALL COMPLICIT in the ORDEAL that was brought about by POLITICAL MACHINATIONS...we accept the system...we voted.

someone asked for a one day general strike...hardly something that will piss off the ELITE...

BUT WHAT IF THEY CALLED AN ELECTION AND NOBODY CAME...WOULD THE GOVERNMENT STAY IN POWER???
WOULD THE HOUSE BE RECALLED IN CHAOS???WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF PEOPLE GOT OFF THEIR BUTTS AND STARTED THEIR OWN PARTIES???PRESTON MANNING DID
AND BEFORE HIM TOMMY DOUGLAS AND THE CCF/NDP

I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS...BUT I'M NOT GOING TO STOP LOOKING...

how do you over come the gullibility of the public most only pay attention for seven seconds do not research the parties and what they really stand for and believe the main stream media, some of the posters on this web site are a perfect example of the brain washed brain dead public.

Hey justy baby what party do you support if you are so smart?

UNDERSTANDME:

You should work on your spelling and learn about the shift key. I for one ignore your posts by now because they hurt my eyes. Using CAPS ALL THE TIME LEAVES YOU NO WAY TO PROVIDE EMPHASIS AND IRRITATES MY EYES TO THE EXTENT THAT ANYTHING YOU SAY IS SIMPLY IGNORED!!!!!!

UNDERSTANDME:

I admit that I hadn't finished the thread when I became thoroughly irritated with your caps and submitted the above post. I can see that perhaps you have refined your technique and I may even bother to read what you say in the future.