Isn't he a peach? Don't forget to add the word "Honorable" when you all speak his name and don't you forget it!!!

Sad truth is, a good minority of us will forget it, and forgive when we get our early grain cheques, forgive when our sons and daughters get the scraps left over from the big gateway to the big O in whistler sky, forgive, if or when they cut the taxes to the rich and drop the GST a point, forgive, when they take us to war and blow 11.7 billion like Mulroney did last time in Iraq's first invasion, forgive, when we get that off shore BC oil strike, forgive when we all get to pack a shotgun and rifle again, forgive, when the U.S. insurance companies come in to take over our Canadian ones and give our sons and daughters the scraps left over while taking their profits south, forgive when they privatize healthcare to the point where only the rich will be able to afford it, forgive, when they run up fed debt to such a degree that social programs of any kind will be a thing of the past... forgive when the unions get busted, the CBC gets sold, the RCMP gets dissolved, the provinces throw eggs at each other and separate, forgive, when the senate gets elected and far less in numbers to be more easily bought, forgive, when multiculturalism is tossed away like a rag doll, forgive when bilingualism is done more quickly, forgive, when only whites can get in, forgive when coathangers are the method of choice for clinics that don't declare corporate profits, yes forgive our wonderful Stephen Harper who has our best interests at heart.

http://www.morefreedom.org/
Nothing speaks like Harpers favorite. Check out campaigns...

http://www.answers.com/topic/national-citizens-coalition
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/15/ncc031015
http://www.nupge.ca/news_2003/n27ja03a.htm
This one has some interesting links.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020802104305/www.morefreedom.org/new_page_3.htm
These links are excellent.

One of my favorites. Good old history, but its a cut and paste.
http://www.stephenharpersaid.ca/pdf/ncc.pdf#search='www.national%20citizens%20coalitio n'

Pretty pathetic. Emerson has the right to defect for personal and ideological reasons. It is unbelievable that he should defect just after his party lost an election.

It is likely that he would have lost the riding if he had run as a conservative. I can't imagine the outrage that his voters must feel at this time. Bear in mind that Berlinda Stronach has won her riding twice. Can Emerson do it? Unlikely IMO.

I have no problem with people crossing the floor, but this particular one seems different. Does anyone know if there have been other crossing so soon after an election and before the House has even sat? I can understand if it had been sitting for a while and he's grown a certain respect for the government and disenfranchisement with his own party, but this came right after two months of fighting his Conservative opponents on the campaign trail. And of course, there's the whole hypocrisy of Harper and his minions who wanted to pass a law against such a thing.

And speaking of hypocritical, didn't he just appoint a senator, too? What happened to elections for the senate? (not that I want that, because I don't, but I at least expect some consistency).

Re correction: That is, only white "educated" immigrants can get in the country and abortion clinics better be private, can't have the public ones getting involved with personal mistakes on tax payers money. I suppose we Cons should charge sick people who get cancer from smoking or boozing or eating bad foods and such. And why should us Conservatives have to pay tax dollars for those lazy welfare recipients who we all know don't want to work and why should we help downtown east side, they've chosen it, and why should we cater to the unemployed. Plenty of jobs out there. Why should Cons have any systems of public government service for the public at all? Lord knows our government isn't here to serve the tax paying public, just the corporations, especially the rich ones like the Ralph Klein loving oilers down south who treat us with such love and kind.

Pay as you go works for millionaires like David Emerson just fine! I'm glad he's found his way home.

I laughed at loud at today's cartoon about Kingsway whores in the Province. Should I set fire to an embassy?

grw: No. There hasn't been anything like it. No one has ever crossed until parliment has reconviened. And as for Fortier, our new "public works" minister, he has these words from a CBC correspondent:

A day after his surprise appointment as minister of public works and government services in Ottawa, Fortier told reporters: "I didn't run in the election because I didn't want to run in the election."

Fact is, he lost twice before and would have lost again... the whole thing stinks.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/02/07/fortier-michael060207.html
The story goes on to explain.

Fortier is a party organizer who had worked on Harper's 2004 campaign for the leadership of the Conservative party and went on to co-chair the party's national campaigns in 2004 and 2006. Harper has said he took the unusual action of appointing a non-elected person to cabinet in order to have a Montreal representative at the cabinet table.

Another patronage appointment not being mentioned is with President of Treasury Board - John Baird.

http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/electionnight/

He's Ottawa West Nepean and his credentials are as follows:
Age: 36
Birthplace: Nepean, Ont.
Education: BA in political science from Queen's University
Profession: Consultant

Served as Conservative Ontario co-chair during 2004 election; was Ontario co-chair for Stephen Harper's leadership campaign. Served as co-chair of Jim Flaherty's Ontario PC leadership campaign. Youngest delegate to 1985 Provincial Leadership Convention. Founder of a special political recruitment program for students. 1988-Pres of PC Youth Wing. Served on provincial executive for two years
Provincial: Elected in Nepean in 1995; in Nepean-Carleton in 1999, 2003

He's one of Mike Harris's with larger ambitions after the Harris regime failed.

If we want proportional representation, we need to get used to cabinets that are drawn from various political parties. It would be interesting to know if the negotiations leading to this outcome explored the possibility of Emerson joining the cabinet as a Liberal or as an independent.

Perhaps Jack Layton could become the Minister of Justice. Layton's views on violent crime are similar to Conservative views. He could leverage the NDP's friendship with Fidel Castro to obtain a Canadian base at Guantanamo adjacent to the U.S. base. This could come in handy if the NDP ever forms a majority government and sends heavily-armed troops to Alberta to seize their oilfields. Jack's colleagues in the Alberta NDP would love to see Ralphie soaking-up the Cuban sunshine while attired in an orange jumpsuit... as long as said jumpsuit was union made like the billions of dollars worth of U.S. military vehicles rolling off the production lines in Oshawa.

Once a political whore always a political whore. If I voted for Emerson, I would demand a revote or riot. We need a good riot, shows everyone how mad we get.

I think one of the disappointing things is Emerson was brought into cabinet and Moore was not.

I was hoping we would at least someone representing the younger generations, but alas, the average age of cabinet is now 51. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against old white guys, I aspire to one day be one.

As well, it would also be nice to see someone who will stay around a little. One more reason for electoral reform.

Today's a sad day for democracy.. but so was yesterday.

This blogger from John Baird's riding in Neapean Ontario writes:

"This whole Queensway Carleton Hospital rent issue really upsets me. I feel I am really getting scammed by John Baird.

1st. John Baird makes like the lease will expire in a couple of years when in fact the lease doesn't expire for 8 years. A lot can happen in 8 years.

2nd. John Baird implies it is the Liberals who legislated fair market value rules on the NCC. The fact is his own Conservative party (under Mulroney) did that and NOT the Liberals.

3rd. The NCC is willing to negotiate and there may even be a clause in the 40 year lease that will limit the increase. Unfortunately the true terms have not been revealed.

4th. Baird makes like he is a champion for health care. However in 2000 when he was a Ontario Cabinet Minister, Ontario received from the federal government a big portion of $1.5 Billion for buying new medical equipment. Instead of buying medical equipment, Baird's Conservatives blew the cash on investing in private start-up firms that have since disappeared and bought things like floor polishers, lawn mowers and other maintenance equipment. Little or none of the hundreds of millions of dollars went towards the purchase of medical equipment. That is the Conservatives in their true form with regards to health care.(Facts from Jane Jacobs' book "Dark Times Ahead").

Yup. I feel Mr Baird is scamming us and I hate being scammed. I get enough of it from telemarketers and used car salesmen."

Here's another blogger comments on John Baird.

"John Baird was indeed very much involved in the destruction of the healthcare system in Ottawa. There were plenty of back-room deals made for political reasons which flew in the face of everything healthcare workers like myself knew (and publicly proclaimed) to be true. Taxpayers and patients have been paying in a very real sense ever since.

John Baird's announcement that he would seek federal office led almost everyone i work with at the Ottawa Hospital to declare they would gladly face the sub-zero weather to go out and actively campaign against him.

Posted by: Beth

Now that Marlene isn't running, I can only hope to that John Baird doesn't somehow win.

I still vividly remember watching him on the news as the Ontario Minister of Energy, when his government privatized hydro and the new hydro bills came out, and he couldn't even decipher all the costs on his own hydro bill."

Posted by: Sylvain | Dec 6, 2005 3:03:20 PM

Nice to have another patronage corporate puppet plant running the nations treasury. Baird was noted for missing all party candidate meetings. Why did he win? The Liberal candidate missed one on gun control to go to a party for Allan Rock. As well, the Liberals asked other candidates to step aside for her to run, which the voters didn't think was unfair. She got a lot of bad press over it. John Baird didn't. Baird gets a bye, and now he's running our nations treasury.

There's a lot of dirt to be found, folks. All we have to do is look. Fact is, David Emerson's future should be closely watched from here on in as to why it was so important to press certain deals and contracts through the federal goverment over gateway and Whistler spending. Its our tax paying dollars at stake. You know how it is. We pay 60 bucks for a toothbrush. 2 million for 2 tons of rebar... expect some major cost overruns to be met by the ink signed on these deals. And I'm sure our "HONERABLE David Emerson" will have some good banking tips for our new Federal treasurer, John Baird.

petition to have him recalled

http://www.petitiononline.com/RDE/petition.html

Votes for our Honorable David Emerson:

David Emerson (as a Lib) 20,064
Ian Waddell NDP 15,570
Kanman Wong Con 8,699
Amo Schortinghuis Greens 1,301
Matt Kadioglu 277

Yup! This riding had a fat chance of going conservative, especially in light of how much love we had for our Cons in the three largest cities of Canada. But the Cons tried.

The 2001 census found just one-third of residents here listed English as their mother tongue. More than 55 per cent are immigrants. Nearly 40 per cent are ethnically Chinese – the second-highest such proportion of any riding. this explains Con strategy.

Even still, this was the best the Cons could do, given that Emerson even tried to give them a bye. Remember his "Boiled Dog's head smile" comment? Its unsurpizing that he said this knowing that it would bond with the chinese vote... we should have known how unethical he was then...

I'll say this much about David Emerson. As most will attest, he knows what he's doing. There isn't a CEO alive that doesn't get shares issued to them directly in any company. Millionaire? I guess so, many times over. He was there plundering this provinces coffers as deputy finance minister of BC in 1984.
As president and CEO of the Western and Pacific Bank of Canada in Vancouver (now the Canadian Western Bank after he successfully merged his bank with another one to make a killing in shares). In 1990 he returned to the B.C. civil service as deputy minister of finance, and was soon named deputy minister to the premier, in to our public coffers for more, and then to the corporate big time as president of the B.C. Trade Development Corporation. In 1998, he was appointed president and CEO of Canfor Corporation, B.C.'s largest forestry company. He drove up profits through raping the resources Canfor held, while streamlining costs, and all the while, he pumped up share value and issued shares to himself like every CEO does. There's so much dirt on this guy, his name should come up when we look up "conflict of interest" in the dictionary.

Even most Conservatives in his riding won't like him. He was a no show MP as a Lib, doing nothing for riding that suffers heavily from drugs and crime. He knows what he's doing all right. Glad he found his way home. And it's just the beginning, for there's more to come.

The reality is that Canfor's records of share's issued to David Emerson, as well as any issued to him while he was with the Canadian Western bank (but not prior) can be found with ease. It would be a great service To Canadians if anyone looked to find just how much he's made off of our sweat and devastated forests to support his greed in relation to his share issues to himself. Especially considering the job he now has with this country. A possible 15 billion could flow through his hands.

So David Emerson has introduced his constituents to the pleasantries of corporate culture.

I'd urge his unfortunate constituents to occupy his local constituency offices until a more honest politician can be found to replace him.

It shouldn't take long.

He should, at the very least, pay back everyone who donated money to him. If he is still a "good man" like his former colleague suggests, he has to do that!

Emeson jumped ship to the Conservatives, probably at the behest of the Board of Trade and even maybe some local Liberals, why?

Two of the local Liberal projects are in serious financial trouble, the Olympics (TM) and RAV. The Olympic financial woes are well known, the media has all but ignored the massive increase in costs of RAV. According to sources, the cost of RAV is now $2.8 billion and rising. Remeber, to those who want to believe, RAV suffers the same escalation of costs of the Olympics, 1% or more a month.

To keep these two pet projects from floundering, the local powers that be (Liberal) needed a points-man in power or more correctly a Judas, but this Judas's 30 pieces of silver is the Minister of Trade or what ever.

The cost of RAV and the Olympics combined, may cost over $5 billion and BC needs a financial God Father in Ottawa to keep the Federal funds flowing!

The taxpayer, as always is tuck paying the bill!

Canada's privately owned media will be dropping this story soon. And thus it will be removed from public discussion. This is a disturbing harbinger to come from Mr. Harper's administration I fear.

It is not Emerson who has plumbed the true depths of hypocrisy, however, it is Harper.

After pledging to "clean up" Ottawa he goes to an opposition member and offers him a job in cabinet if he will switch parties. If that isn't influence peddling under the law it damn well should be.

Emerson is an electoral thirf! (I know I said that yesterday also!).

Have a sit in in his constituency office?

Which office? He is moving isn't he, to a conservative constituency office?

I say launch a campaign to pie him, follow him around with a cream pie, constantly.

Continue to write letters, educate/demonstrate outside his "new" consitutuency office. Wait that may be a Vancouver/BC Board of Trade building!

Is there any mechanism that can be used to have a bye-election or re-vote?

As a liar, how can anyone believe what the guy now says?

Oh, another suggestion-any mail sent to Emerson should reference him as THE DISHONOURABLE (!!!!) David Emerson!

Let's brow beat the guy until he resigns from his seat in parliament, as it was pointed out earlier, the media will soon drop the story.

The two-faced (maybe even more), lying (remember his campaign rhetoric - obviously all lies), corporatist sleaze bag!

Crap, my spelling!

I meant to type: Emerson is an electoral thief!

Don't worry about spelling, yours is better than mine and my antique keyboard!

I know a lot of conservatives that are quite unhappy about this and have complained to their MP’s. They felt that it was no different than what Belinda did and he should have gone independent. I have even seen remarks saying that they sympathize with Liberal voters and workers feeling betrayed.

I realize that this is a symptom of our current electoral system, and it will yield tactical advantages for the CPC that is dealing with being a minority government, but I certainly don’t support the way it was done.

Mind you I don’t remember those Liberals complaining much when Belinda came across and I doubt that she repaid her party and campaign office for their support.

... and another thing (or two): who gets to foot the bill for Conservative Emerson's Liberal campaign?

Who gets the $1.75 for each trusting Liberal vote placed beside his name on Vancouver-Kingsway ballots?

And while we're at it, what exactly is Harper's Ministry of Public Safety? Has George Orwell just been appointed to Canada's new government?

Politicians understand - like most humans - they must only *really* respond to two things: force and crisis.

We are in a worldwide crisis of confidence and trust. But how to riot effectively in response? ;-)

BC Mary its tit for tat, look what was spent on Belindas election plus the leader ship campaign, as for the $1.75 that also balances out, don't forget to include Dingwalls cool half million in the equation,just paid for by you.
Don't expell all your energy on this situation as there may be a couple more ship jumpers.

Good posts Colin, this is not a partisan issue, it crosses all lines of sleaze and lowers the bar.

As far as Belinda , at least she sat with her party for some time and than made the decision. (I think she was a slime bag leaving for a cabinet post) but who on earth would like to make Belinda look better. The bar has been lowered to far, this is enough.

David has betrayed 77% of voters who did not want a conservative in that riding, Imagine if Stockwell day crossed to the NDP, same ratio. He would not be able to show his face in public again. This is what should happen to David, treat him the way he needs to be treated, for gods sake he was calling
Steven Harper a scary right wing nut job only last month.

I like what Bill Tilemen said on CKNW last night " David will be a great minister for the 2010 games , he just won a gold medal in hypocrisy, he snow jobbed his entire riding, and he will be familiar with any corruption
that takes place"

I also feel sorry for conservatives to , Steven and David have just killed all credibility people had in the new
party. Also , James Moore and other loyal conservatives have been passed over for this man whore.

The solution, no, nada, nothing get passed in the house, until we get a bi election now or else we all go to the polls again.

Good question, BC Mary. The Ministry of Public Safety? Uh... I think that's the US Department of Homeland Security, Northern Division.

Skip Tracer: How to riot? I like the idea of mass shunning. When Harper, Emerson, Campbell, Reynolds, et al appear in public, whenever...wherever.... at official occasions etc.... people should organize and gather ( the larger the assembly of people the better) and quietly turn their backs on them. Humiliate them publically. Completely legal and gives them the measure of respect that they are due. (I think Gandhi would approve).

This has to be a process of non-recognition and non-co-operation on our part..that we will not honour or co-operate with governments or politicians who have no interest or committment to the idea of democratic governance....who have replaced this noble idea with the sleazy wheelings and dealings of corporate culture.

Woody says

I guess we don't need to lower the bar for woody, he just slithers underneath . Hey woody many people get raped and killed in Canada to, does that make it okay for you to do so. actually don't answer that.

Steven is not in the house yet and he's buying of people , appointing unelected cabinet ministers etc, nice start, I give this gov 8-12 months. We have to many woodys in this world

No. That's too true to one of the ugliest traits of Canadians: passive aggression cloaked in resentful silence. It is the achilles heel of our national character.

Break out the pitchforks! Get it out in the open! Look at the Jihadis' success: burn a couple of embassies, kill some of your own and bingo! Western governments run scared!

Skip Tracer asks (jokefully)

We have seen how some tasteless drawings have triggered riots worldwide. Since, in Canada, many feel governments at all levels seem to feel themselves free to steal from the taxpayer, other than sports Cup celebrations, it's not clear what would get Canadians off their butts into a riotus mood on streets.

Perhaps a cartoon of a mooning Emerson with two raised middle digits might light the spark.

Grumpy writes:

In Vancouver? A riot?

Only if Emerson laces on skates and puts on a jersy and fails to win the stanley cup.

The sheep in Vancouver-Kingsway will bleat a little louder for a week or two then this will all be forgotten. Worse still next election another liberal parachute candidate will come along and the sheep will vote for it again.

BC Mary writes:

1- The LiEberals
2- The LiEberals

3- Yes, since he was part of the naming BC Ministry of Earth, Wind and Fire....he has moved up!

Is the new ministry run by the deputy minister Robespierre?

Nice! Or a has-been metal band cancels a concert and when an innocent is subsequently brutalized by the cops there is no comensurate response after the fact. Emerson and his ilk know this about the public. That is why they pursue their agendas unimpeded.

Steve P asks:

I say yes and both are talking with Sejanus

I will paraphrase a political science professor who was on the CBC this morning with Anna marie Tremonty. The subject was Emerson. "Lots of folks cross the floor and many other folks get divorced. But the divorce is seldom before the wedding banquet is over."

This character has no more integrity, than the guy who got him across the floor. Wonder how the folks felt who worked for him, gave the party money to help get him elected feel about their star candidate who was such a loyal Liberal, at least till he found out there was no place in the front row for him

Excuse me folks, Vancouver is protest capital compared to the rest of Canada.

Some facts to be proud off.

1) The riot at the Hyatt
2) Bus loads of Vancouverites represented at the battle in Seattle
3) Victoria was the only city EVER to cancel a G8 Summit due to riot
concerns.
4) The riot at UBC
5) The largest peace protest in Canada.

So lets organize something special for David, maybe a parade or something, a large inflatable pig with his face on it. be creative. Street parties outside David's new office, etc etc etc

The end of Democracy street parties, a new grass roots movement to work around elected officials who whore out. Lets use David as an icon of what's wrong with the system , make him an honoree member of the Kingsway hooker union.

Run a sexy picture in the Georgia Straight for an escourt agency and put David's office # on it

Here is an idea:

I am sure there were a number of volunteers working on Emerson's campaign (a covert personal gain campaign in actuality!) and probably put in a number of hours (placing lawn sign, door-door canvassing and so on).

Why not calculate all the volunteer hours put in on Emerson's campaign, and have each volunteer send a letter (including the volunteers hours table) to the Dishonourable David Emerson demanding that he pay back those volunteer hours!

I would love to see this happen, especially to see Emerson scooping up dog poop in some campaign volunteer's front yard, in order to repay the volunteer hours!

What say you?

I am a usually conservative voter and regardless of David Emerson's resume and pedigree, I don't think he's qualified to sit as a minister of the crown. He clearly lacks an ethical compass - and that is a requirement regardless of one's political stripe.

Cycling Commuter:

I agree fully and even welcome it. However, if we were operating according to PR principles, we would expect and even encourage such behaviors.

Right now we don't have PR, so such a move is unethical.

Belinda and Emerson are both business execs!
As such their job has been to beat the competition, minimize taxes, reduce employee benefits and paint a rosy picture for the shareholders!
Anyone who has observed the typical “old boys” attitude, will know it is quietly accepted that the method to do all this, is to backstab, cheat, lie, falsify and manipulate.
If those qualifications are what the voters are looking for, then they surely got what they were asking for.
It fits well within those parameters to cross the floor should it seem an advantage.
Also in business today it is obvious that so-called R&D primarily is about finding new product or services that can be promoted (regardless of their justification), while little is done to actually improve what is already selling.

Similarly we already see the off-shore drilling get the green light, no matter how poor the risk.
The prudent thing would be to work on alternative energy sources and keep the riches in the ground/sea till we develop safe methods of extracting them!
Would it be so terrible if we left some of the natural resources for the next generation to enjoy? Must we plunder everything in this generation?
Yes, right I am not a capitalist, but I do have a social conscience……do you?

Did you read Emerson's response to all the criticism in the Sun? He's upset that his kids are being teased.

However, he feels that as a Buddhist he can rise above partisanship. His tone is one of world weary disdain for all the little partisan people.

Nice for him. Perhaps he should have told the people of Vancouver-Kingsway that he was running as an independent then.

What an ass.

How about all the volunteers for David deliver their weekly garage to his office door steps

Make a massive pile, that he has to step over everyday, including dog droppings etc. Hell I
will do my share and I don't even live in the riding. FedEx dog poop to him, put ads for escort agencies with his phone # , what the hell. He deserves it

Harassing a politician’s family and kids is not kosher at all and totally unethical. Hassle him all you want, he is getting paid for it.

Then Mr. Harper isn't qualified to sit as prime minister. His ethical compass is spinning round and round on this one.

Cry me a river Colin. What about all the Liberal kids that were teased because thier daddys were a bunch of "criminals"? Emerson complaining about mistreatment is about as condescending as it is patronizing. Emerson obviously feels he is better than the rest of us. We call that trait supercillious. It fits.

Rather than go straight to Conservatives, Emerson could have become an Independent first,then 2-3 months down the road joined the Conservatives. Then, you Liberals would have been none the wiser, not that any body who votes Liberal is wise anyway.

Woody, please. Enough with the partisanship. Not everyone on this board is a Liberal. Maybe you're just trying to stir things up, but you'd be more effective if you did it with a bit of intelligence and perspective.

Yes, it would have been better if he had sat as an independent first, but not in this situation. Why, after fighting for two whole months as a Liberal and against the Conservatives, would he switch the day after the election? That's the real odd part. I wouldn't have even minded if he had sat for a few months in Opposition then directly crossed to the Conservatives. That would have been fair and completely within the rules of parliamentary democracy.

With comments like yours, Woody, you're in no position to talk about anyone else's wisdom.

You all want to know how we spend our tax dollars? Take a peak at this report on timber resources across the entire province of B.C. et. el, wood volumes, who's corporately hot, who's not, mill numbers, whats left to cut, everything is in this report. It was done for the BC Trade development Corporation of which he was then president in 1991, 1992.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/Docs/Mr/Rc/Rc021/RC021_3.pdf

This website contains the report with information on forest industry prepared for our "honorable" David Emerson and explains how and why our "honorable" David Emerson got so rich with Canfor. He had intel no one else had.

Honorable Emerson had intel that only a few were privy to as deputy finance minister of BC in 1984.
It was no mistake that led him to the only survivor as President and CEO of the Western and Pacific Bank of Canada in Vancouver (now the Canadian Western Bank after he successfully merged his bank with another one to make a killing in shares. This is where he made millions and moved right back to Goverment for more.

As some will recall, the BC Trade development Corporation was a big part of the Federal Liberal trade missions back in the 90's. Remember those? There were all kinds of reports done on our resources here and what we had to offer. Honorable Emerson sat on information few had anywhere in the world with this region.

His involvement with banks and Canfor, and the Vancouver airport were all about money. Honorable David Emerson has been a Fed government researcher since 1974. His intel through to the 80's led him here and its no surprise that his background, his ambitions and his dealings have made him a millionaire many times over, and at the taxpayers expense, as this is about as blatant a conflict of interest as it gets.

It reminds me of university professors who get genious from the odd student only to take it to the markets to pad their wallets with untold millions. Its the same conflict of interest we allow even now, unknowingly....

Honorable Emerson's directorships included : Teresen Inc, Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Company of Canada; Vice-Chairman of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives; Chair, British Columbia Ferry Services Inc.; and Chairman and Director of Genus Resource Management Technologies Inc.

Each directorship relates to what he knew from government intel, and reflects where these same corporations headed.

He was right on top of coordinated market research and drafted major reports on the food industry in China, drafted energy sector briefing notes used by Premier Harcourt during Team Canada’s 1995 trade mission to China, with follow up to identify energy projects suitable for pursuit by BC companies.
Why did he have a chinese vote? Ever heard the slogan "vote for the Republicans, their good for business." Honorable David Emerson was synomymous with this term in Chinese, only it was "vote for the Liberal, good for Business".

Honorable David Emerson has enough intel on Gateway and Whistler to make millions more. It should be no secret as to how many conflicts of interest he really has and I for one, knowing this is a minority government, will do what I can to see him stopped.

It begins with petitions and the press, with clips like these, and the facts, people, are out there. Honorable David Emerson was high profile for a lot of years. Its about time someone should be asking why he was so sucessfull as a CEO for Great Western and Canfor, and who's filling his pockets now. Think! We can bury him with the information thats out there with information presented in ways, a child could understand.

Martin muses:

Yes like the ethics of the gutter-snipe from shawinigan that got call the VERY RIGHT HONORABLE PRIME MINISTER [Darth] CRETIEN[ous]?

I would not call one of those liars Honorable, for the moment the only ones that have a shot at the title are the 'newbies' or any Independant members (the way it should be for all MP's).

grw asks:

because his 'benefactor' PMPM said on ELECTION NIGHT that he was no longer going to be around to support him as part of the LiEberal Caucus.

The man is no fool and must have known that without LiEberal Leader Mr. Dithers he was toast, so why not take a shot at the brass ring one more time when it is held out?

But, but, but......he always said he was a 'Small- c Liberal'.

I heard him say it myself.

......yesterday.

____
I'm with The Brain above, anybody who's been paying attention knows that Mr. Emerson is no liberal.

.

The conclusion is, he's dirty. Its one thing to get into politics to serve the public trust, to be a public servant. Its quite another to serve yourself. His rise to riches has been entirely at our expense. We pay salaries to politicians to "prevent" precisely this kind of thing from happening. He's dirty, and he's got to go. He's not fit for any government, and his "recruitment" by Harper should suggest just how fit Harper is to govern. My take on it with Honorable David Emerson? Martin was desparate to keep him. Harper, well, Harper is just plain stupid to have him.

The Emerson outrage will die in a few days, just as Campbell's drunk driving photos and conviction has. Which, in many respect was a more serious, criminal offence.

Emerson did what comes naturally to all predators, whether it is the eating of a rodent, or an old lady's beloved canary.

Under every form of ideology the same people will float to the top of the sewage pond. I have seen how little nazis and fascists suddenly became red hot communists and how the red hot communists are now the biggest capitalists.

Wealth can not be created, only taken and ideologies are the best instruments and excuses for daylight robbery under the guise of "wealth creation."

The purpose of economic theories is not the claimed "distribution of scarce resources", but the distribution of the real costs of the scarce resources by transferring them onto a wide public base and filtering the benefits to a self oppointed ruling class under the current ideological banner.

People who now are vociferously defending "free enterprise capitalism", in other words, forced collectivization by a ruling class, are the same who would be defending communist state capitalist collectivization under the same ruling class, waving a different coloured banner.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

So you guys say Emerson and his family should be tormented, tortured, and then shot. And all that should be capped of with a celebration riot. You guys are lunatics.

It's the country you live in Jim. The last time we had the Cons in power, the good people of Canada were stoning natives in Oka to death. The cops stood by and laughed and the crowd cheered with every gauntlet.

RossK: Emerson is clearly a Liberal as British Columbia understands that term: a LINO, Liberal In Name Only.

Can anyone help me with clues as to what the Ministry of Public Safety does ... or is expected to do?? Google can't find it.

At this moment, I can't see where Canada has ever had a Ministry of Public Safety before. So how does this fit with Harpo's notion of reducing the size of his Cabinet?

Or was it merely a juicy treat flung at the gum-wad which is Stockwell Day to see if he'd stop clinging to Harpo's pant-leg and go for it?

to paraphrase the old cigarette ad, David Emerson would rather quit than fight.

Emerson is bought and paid for. Harper gives and Harper can take away from Emerson. So can anyone tell me how Emerson can give an independant voice to the Cabinet. Emerson fears the back bench. What's he gonna do when Harpo tells him to eat his words. Cross the floor?

is too kind. "Harper whore" is apt, but disparaging of women.

"Liar"... "Betrayer"... "Lies Down with Dogs" (apologies to Rex and Queenie)..., they all fit.

Mr. Emerson, you assert that Stephen Harper is not the Harper of ten years ago. Two weeks ago, you inferred that he was shameless scum, a danger to the nation. Now you have seen the light - what, that you are the same? Please clarify.

Do the right thing and resign. You have corrupted the democratic process by denying your constituents legitimate representation. There is still time to reclaim some of your dignity. Do it now or be damned!

Jim: No... thanks for putting words in our mouths, thats what you said. What I (and possibly we) are saying is that our Honorable David Emerson is full of conflicts of interests and as such, he is in no way ethical at this point, or any other, really, in his career to govern or hold an elected post to serve the public trust!

BC Mary: An interesting comparison should be made in terms of what the liberal cabinet positions were in Martins Goverment compared to Harpers. The comparisons should be eye opening. Already, the media has condensed the longer ministry name to avoid what Honorable David Emerson's true portfolio is. There are several surprizes coming for us soon.

The Star's Chantal Hebert has an interesting theory about Emerson's swiching the the Cons and Martin's stepping down as Lib leader.

Corporate Canada, which has cosied up to the Libs
in recent years (Martin himself being a member in good standing in the successful CEO club), is now switching allegience to the Cons as the party
of and for corporate Canada, and abandoning the Libs.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1139352618865&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

Emerson shmemerson. He's a garden variety political opportunist. He was already a conservative. If you want to get a good hate on, think about Harper appointing his buddy Fortier to the Senate and then plopping him in the cabinet. Why even bother with an election when we could just have Harper appoint us a whole government.

Funny eddy re your earlier blog about Oka. I thought that it was neo-conservative mike harris directed OPP shooting at natives while the good people of Canada, excluding those of the calgary school, looked on in horror.

The Brain,

Putting words in your mouth?

Hunter, “the likes of Mr. Emerson should be shot”

Big Ed, “Shooting is too merciful and quick”

Grumpy, “We need a good riot”

Haskels response to Colins claim that his kids and family shouldn't be harassed, "cry me a river"

Freebear, “lets brow beat this guy until he resigns.” He also recommended stalking combined with assault, “launch a campaign to pie him, follow him around with a cream pie, constantly”

Skip Tracer,”Look at the Jihadis success: burn a couple of embassies, kill some of your own and bingo!”

In those quotes you advocate. Murder, attempted murder, assault, stalking, uttering threats, rioting, torture, mischief, bullying, arson, and vandalism. All because a guy switched from one party to another party all the while serving the people of Canada. Lunatics.

"Can anyone help me with clues as to what the Ministry of Public Safety does ... or is expected to do?? Google can't find it.

At this moment, I can't see where Canada has ever had a Ministry of Public Safety before. So how does this fit with Harpo's notion of reducing the size of his Cabinet"

Hi BC Mary:

I believe Anne McLellan was the Minister of Public Safety in the previous government. I also believe it was created soon after and as a response to September 11th, 2001.

Yes its Canada's version of Homeland Security!

JIm:

I am not advocating violence, nor harrassing Emerson's family.

As to brow beating, that is only a term that I took to mean pestering him with words.

As to bullying, I think a former CEO can take verbal truth abuse, as I am sure he would have bullied someone while working for CanFor!

Would you have been as happy if Emerson had changed his political affiliation to the Green Party?

Of course that would mean no Cabinet position and a move to the far back benches!

Of course I can not assume that the Green Party would want him!

eddy wrote:

You must be living in another parallel universe to this one.

So you are also advocating harassing an innocent kid because of the actions of their parents, I sorry but that is just sick.

A public servant serves the public trust. Period! This is what a public servant is supposed to do. Maybe David Emerson is a nice guy. Who knows? He might have a warm, bright, funny sense of humor and when you walk into his office, you'll get bowled over by his confidence and his status and position and all that, and when he doesn't take the baby from your sister and start eating it, but instead makes fond comments, we begin to think a guy like David Emerson is like one of us, just got lucky, right place, right time....

But when we examine the truth... what David Emerson did was betray the public trust and he didn't do it just days ago, here. He sold his soul to profit on information from government intel provided to him in the 80's and 90's, while he was on goverment salary, to serve the publics trust and what he did with his intel in becoming the CEO for Great Western Bank and Canfor, is a complete conflict of interest, a complete violation of the public trust.

We pay tax dollars to people like him in the hope that he wouldn't exploit us or business with what information the goverment provided him, "to serve the public trust." What we got in return was just another politician serving himself. The case of David Emerson should be the case made to prevent in any future accountability laws coming in the future. It is the "conflicts of interest" that are tearing this country apart. And its not just top down, its down top. There are tons of voters who vote the same way. For themselves. Not for the good of the country, or life or the world, but for the good of themselves! And while this might justify supporting Conservative NCC agenda's, and tax cuts to the rich and corporate agenda's like the Liberals are also guilty of, TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT. They never have, they never will, and there will never be any good coming from it.

Its time to make an example and my pick for such a lucky man in the right place at the right time? Honorable David Emerson. The accountability act should be designed to keep people like him from exploiting what he learns from Government intel. Don't hold your breath for anything remotely of the sort from someone like our honorable Stephen Harper.

While I agree with you, Skip Tracer about the need of Canadians to be more vocal...riots are a sign that you have lost all power and control. It is reaction not action. We have to be cleverer and stronger than that.

Non-violent resistance as Gandhi said is the moral equivalent of war...it is not passivity but resistance...it is not violent but it is action and requires great courage...without yielding, and without retaliation...and accepts that violent action may occur against those who resist. That is why his belief in non-violent, non-co-operation with the British salt laws through a strong determined refusal to yield to injustice was so effective in shaking the Indian subcontinent from the Himalayas to the sea. Let's see a riot do the same.

I saw people in a room once stand up one by one and quietly turn their back on the political speaker at the podium. Believe me, the silence was not of the passive-aggressive kind but powerful. It takes a bit of organization but it is extremely effective. The power of that speaker literally disintegrated in front of all of us.

Nonviolent action is based on a different approach: to deny the enemy the human assistance and cooperation which are necessary if he is to exercise control over the population. It is actually a very sophisticated view of political power.

Jim: Don't put me on that list. I just want him fired! I want accountability legislation with his name on it! Thats all. Hey, if Emerson wants to steal from the public and walk around proud of it, he can go ahead, but it won't be without some dirty looks with passers by.

Lynn: Very true.

Thanks, brain.

And here's a little something for you, too, BC Mary:

http://www.justice.gov.ab.ca/organization/justice_system.aspx?id=3181

Lots of links from this site as well...but real scary when you realize "Doris" has been put in charge of all this.

Couldn't they have given him the Ministry of Silly Walks or something? :-)

Come on The Ministry of Public Safety has to be our Version of Homeland Security. Or let freedom of speech go to he ll

One in six americans have a criminal record. Do you think Public Safety will punch up the frontier with the U.S.?

Good list Jim, thanks for summing up some good ideas (you forgot tar and feather) I wonder how James Moore or other competent conservatives feel about star boy who gets the big
job.

God help us if this pack ever takes a majority, their going to do things differently, give me a break 2 weeks ago David was calling Harper a right wing nut job,

Their finance minister Flatery used to be the conservative Minster under Harris who found the solution to homelessness, he paid folks to get on buses and get out of Ont, if you want to see riots and violence give this pack a majority, I see this gov falling soon.

Jim,

I reported that he was upset that his kids were being teased. I don't think it is right that his children or family should be targeted in any way.

But Emerson seems to be both taken aback at the response and disdainful of the "partisan" people who elected him because they thought he was a Liberal. He's really a piece of work.

I like a war of words not fists. Write him, write Harper, write your local MLA.

Sadly, I think this will blow over. However, I don't think the good folks of Van/Kingsway will forget.

Didn't they give Tony Clement that one?

This will spark interest in the Liberal leadership race. The "A" list of probables will see the chance for a fall election. It is only the first three days and look at the ammo the cons have served up against themselves:

Emerson

Justice Minister convicted of election fraud

Appointing a senator when H said he wouldn't

Putting senator in the cabinet out of scrutiny of parliament

Getting rid of the gun registry(a popular program)

Child care war with provinces

Isolating Toronto

Plus the amount of internal problems these actions have created in the back-bench.

Thing are looking good for the Liberals already!!

Thanks, freebear & Lynn ... but the Federal Ministry of Public Safety thing still isn't making sense to me. Now that you mention it, freebear, I do recall something about this public safety invention post-2001 and I do recall seeing Anne McLellan in Washington absorbing instructions like a Guppy ... but it never actually seemed real. Not like a Ministry.

Now Harpo has abolished Anne's former position of Deputy Prime Minister -- but has kept the surreal Public Safety factor -- which he has now made into a full-blown Ministry? With [choke] Stockwell Day in charge?

And this is all about Alberta?? Alberta is now keeping Canada safe from evildoers? Alberta will read to us as we await the coming Revelations? What?

I'll try harder. But if anybody has already figured this out, please tell me: what does it allow Dumbass Day to do now?

Colin:

You may not remember it, but there was an election when Socreds were scampering around Oak Bay saying "Don't vote for Vic Stevens, he's a queer!" (Two BC conservative candidates had come out in the middle of the campaign) And his children were hit - and hurt - by it on the street.

There were also threatening phone calls made around the province, rocks through campaign office windows, signs torn down, etc... some folks take their politics seriously.

R. Smiley

Colin... I'm just pointing out that hatred is alive and well within this nation. And sometimes it takes a child to raise a village and remind their parents that bad choices do have an impact on their lives. I would imagine that kids harrassing other kids at school is just part of the mix. If Emerson takes exception to that then there cannot be too many compartments to the man. And I got my Oka opinions from video tape of the event. Perhaps you were tuned in to Desert Storm and missed the footage of Canadians stoning natives as they left the reserve. If so, go to your public library and see it for yourself.

JIm, JIm, JIm.....
We only advocate for those things because we are tired of being bent over and raped repeatedly by big business and politcal dom's. There may only be one road out of this oppressive state. Just becasue you like the continuous raping doesn't mean we have to put up with it anymore. Don't worry, there will always be someone around to force you to submit as is your pleasure. Now get back out on Kingsway, bitch.

In those quotes you advocate. Murder, attempted murder, assault, stalking, uttering threats, rioting, torture, mischief, bullying, arson, and vandalism.

Uh, no. I'm obviously being facetious. Sorry your deficient in irony.

As we've just seen (and the foreign policy of our allies proves): we live in a highly degraded age considering our knowledge and potential. I agree with you to a point...and its a nice ideal.

Michael Barnholden has just released a book on the history of riots in Vancouver. The early race riots and free speach riots of the last century made their mark. Non-violence is nice...but not the only valid or effective response to oppression.

In any case, Emerson's defection is not cause for one!

Bobb 999: Interesting link. Thanks, buddy.
;-)
Lynn: an excellent link as well.
BC Mary:
Remember Alberta firewall when Harper stated his wishes to get rid of the RCMP when contracts expire in 2012 and replace them with their own police? It is likely his goal to get rid of the RCMP in Canada altogether, but he has to wait for contracts to expire.

And you know as well, the prestigious "medal of freedom" that Ralph Klein has recieved from the NCC, inaugerating his support for their best interests? And you know that Alta. oil royalties are the second lowest in the world? And you remember just how much opposition oil funded NCC gave to the Trudeau NEP plan back in the day, enough to kill it? Its not hard to put two and two together to realize just how dangerous this Conservative minority government really is. Just in the last two days, our honorable James Lunney has announced a green light for offshore oil drilling and spilling off the west coast.

Harper just appointed two bankers, both of whom weren't elected as Conservatives into his cabinet, he's patronage appointed John Baird as treasurer of our country, for no other reasons than the fact that he kissed Harpers and Flarehty's asses during their campaigns.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18077968%255E2703,00.html

The Austrailian News Paper writes:

"Mr Harper's choice of Gordon O'Connor as Defence Minister also raised eyebrows, since he served as a defence lobbyist after retiring as a general.

Liberal Opposition Leader Bill Graham pointed out that Mr Harper had campaigned on preventing ministers and their staff from becoming lobbyists, and was now appointing a former lobbyist as a minister.

The Conservatives won parliamentary seats in most regions of the country but were shut out of the three largest cities -- Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Mr Harper said that was what motivated him to pick Mr Emerson and Mr Fortier."

Tell you what, the rest of the world isn't blind but our voters sure were on election day. Thank god its not a majority. If you haven't checked out the NCC links yet Mary, or aren't familiar, by all means, you'll find most of everything there.

I honestly don't think people get it.

There won't be any significant complaint about Emerson from the Conservatives in the House. There may be a few mutterings out in the boondocks but I think the gang of 124+1 are not going to complain that Davie boy has vaulted ahead of some of the faithful. That's what the fact that there were no leaks before Monday tells me. These guys, and the odd girl, are totally scripted and completely disciplined, just like their campaign was and I don't expect the new ex-Harris PC wing of the party to be free thinkers either.

Too many people have analyzed Harper's exercise of political expediency in the wrong way. He's a control freak and that's why there was some shrinkage from his last list of MPs: Keith Martin, Scott Brison and Belinda - say what you like about them, they had their own point of view and they weren't going to sit still and just spout the party line once Harper took over. So, who's left who has:
(1) any real convictions - other than the party line; and
(2) enough courage to challenge the leader?

Short list eh!

I don't think you're likely to find much independent thinking from this gang. They are totally committed to doing whatever's necessary to turn their beachhead into a wholesale rout.

That's what this is all about: doing and saying whatever is necessary to effect the means toward a desired end. He wants a few more warm bodies on the government side of the House and I expect somebody is working on a Toronto Liberal right now.

The caucus isn't likely to put any brakes on Harper and I don't think he's going to be much of a consensus builder either. He's going to try and deal with his program issue by issue and buy off, as often as he can, individuals in the opposition who he can convince to support one aspect or another of what he wants. He'll probably use the SS marriage vote as a kind of stalking-horse to identify the likely suspects. He won't win the vote but that'll get it out of the way; play well to his base, and sow dissention in the opposition at the same time.

I don't think we can expect any Joe Clark moments from this guy and the next election will come when the master decides it should come.

Any thoughts?

G West... My thought is...Steven Who!

I have a name for you, David Orchard, (anyone remember him) he's a good man and a true Canadian who took the knife in the back from McKay .

The media really didn't report the fact that he has taken out a Liberal membership and was campaigning for them in Quebec , if his name gets on the ballot , its game over. Liberal majorities for the next 2 decades, once the public hears him speak they will fall in love with him.

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/2do-index.html

David just won in court and will be reimbursed his money in the tune of 77K from the
conservatives, I would like to use this case as a president against Emerson.

G West:

interesting observations, matching much of my own, save for whom is the 'master' you write of?

Murdock
The reference is both ironic and satirical - you know who, and what, I mean.

Skip Tracer writes:

In any case, Emerson's defection is not cause for one!

Exactly, time to calm down, as this will not be the last rat to quit the bad ship LiEberal - I suspect that the Martinites will be the bulk of the ballast thrown overboard. Unless they jump like Emerson.

Mais non Murdock
Methinks we've leapt from the frying pan into the fire!

G West:
Its a Joe Clark goverment, I believe in terms of how long it will last, but like you say, its when the master decides and the Libs don't have one yet.

Our Honorable David Emerson makes the Conservatives AND the Liberals look bad not just on a federal level, but here in this province. Too often, for too long, have we taken CEO's from private life and elected them into public office with the same blind rhetoric... "HE knows what hes doing!"

David Emerson went from elected public servant to CEO and back to elected public servant again, and then CEO, and then back to public service AGAIN!!! To do it once is shame on him. To do it twice, is shame on us. To do it three times, is just plain friggin' stupid. If we don't learn from this, we've learned nothing as voters and journalists alike about what is truly destroying this country. There should be legislation to prevent this, and again, I don't anything but hypocracy coming from our Honorable Stephen Harper.

G West,

OK, I was just worried for a moment that you were trying to make a reference to another 'hidden agenda' or 'conspiracy theory'.

For the Brain:

You cannot legislate morality, good manners, honor, loyalty, nor verity.

Ever.

To dream of such a utopia is fine, but do not try and enforce such a thing, as the outcome is far more ugly than what is dreamt.

After listening to Brand-X this AM and just again now, I think my comments 8 hours ago merrit consideration.

Emerson is a classic Judas, selling out to the opposition for a more modern 30 pieces of silver (a Cabinet Post). Even Bill Good on Brand-X was falling all over himself defending Emerson, really it was quite pathetic.

Canada has now entered a new era of political sleeze, where Cabinet posts seem to go to the highest bidder and honest politicians are few and far between.

I think Delta MP John Cummins should sit as an independant, like a 2006 version of Chuck Cadman, he would certainly have more power as an independant rather than a Conservative back bencher.

God help us, this Country is doomed!

The problem with all you people is that you believe everything you read in the papers. There's no way that Emerson could have crossed the floor and joined the Conserves and got into the cabinet, eh. For one, Harper wouldn't be stupid enough to take him in, eh. For two, Emerson's not THAT pukie a human being. I mean, look what they got in Hansard, eh! I for one just don't buy it. I know a guy who saw Emerson up in West Van at a party and he was still grieving over the Libarians loss to the Conservationists, and making plans for the next election where he says he's determined to run for Libarian P.M. with Parachutist Mickey Ignatieff as his hand-picked successor, eh. (His great great uncle, or something was in Nicholas 2's government, eh) Ignatieff's, not Emerson's. But I know for sure that Emerson used to have a band called Emerson, Lake and Palmer, eh, or something like that.

Grumpy observes:

NO WAY! BC is not doomed at all, god may be needed to 'keep Canada' (cuz no one else will) but the INEVITABLE break-up of Canada will not leave anyone doomed. Only those that cling like leeches to the failed Federalist system have anything to worry about.

It's been said before - don't expect much from the media. There will be a lot less discussion even there when this gang gets through with the CBC.

Oh yeah, don't forget to see the Karlheinz Schreiber-Brian Mulroney show on CBC at 9 o'clock tonight, everybody. Not sure if that's 9 Pacific Time or what.

I think this is a defining moment in Canada, time to revamp the entire elitist system. First we need proportional representation, not that STV = Sexually transmitted vote, but MMP
mixed member proportional representation.

That would have delivered 114 conservatives 92 Liberals 62 NDP 30 Block 10 Green

In the current system, the Block has 10% and gets 51 seats, while the NDP has 17 % and 29 seats, Green has 5% and zero seats.

This system breeds corruption , with proportional representation you get
1) No more strategic voting
2) No more one party dictatorships
3) more cooperation in the house
We can get this done folks in a minority gov, lets not waste this time

P.S I also caught Bill Good defending Emerson, what a asshol**, I don't know how we can tolerate such a vile media. We also need to open up this corrupt media that rewards pimps and whores.

Murdock:
There is absolutely nothing stopping any goverment from passing legislation that prevents CEO's or CFO's from ever pursuing politics or re-entering politics from such roles in private life. Just as we prevent those with a criminal record to run, or have guidelines, we can also legislate new ones to eliminate such conflicts of interest. This is by no means a utopean fantasy, other than waiting for an honest government to come along and do it.

Get rid of conflicts of interest? The legislation could be far easier to create than anyone thinks. Just try getting it passed. If Harper would have spent as much time uniting this country as he has spent dividing it, he would have realized how easy it could be to do both, especially now... (what a loser)

Further to my original comment on another thread on the Tyee, I have two further thoughts:

Where is the mastermind John Reynolds now that the public has responded with wrath against Emerson's BIG ETHICAL, INSENSITIVE, GOOF?

I am also sad to see David Emerson is trying to get sympathy by saying that his children are suffering - excuse me David - please stop your whining and look no further than your own mirror. Take responsibility like a man.

Mr. Emerson, you really ought to take a second look at your unethical actions; apologize not only to your constituents, but to the citizens of Canada. You are not in the same category as JR. So why did you get sucked in by this low level of 'old style' of old boys political games? You sold yourself out and it is sad.

Congratulations to the people of Canada for speaking out so strongly. It is the only way that corrupt systems will change to fairly represent the people not the politicians best interests.

secondlook says:

blah, blah, blah...

It is all just so much hot air.

In another few days this will all become yesterdays news and be forgotten.

It is just too much to expect ordinary folks who have lives to support to keep at the sort of attack that needs to happen to change this.

So what is the reality?

STOP VOTING ALONG THE PARTY LINES

STOP DONATING ANYTHING FOR THEM

STOP LISTENING TO THE PARTY LIES

START taking responsibility for the vote that has been cast and accept the result.

The lesson is likely to be forgotten before the next election, but it needs to be repeated.

VOTE ONLY FOR INDEPENDANT LOCAL CANDIDATES if you want representation for your riding.

Otherwise better BOHICA cuz this sort of thing (floor crossings, appointments, ect.) will continue ad infinitum. Or at least until the next true revolution.

So secondlook

take your own advice.

So do you think Good Old Boy, John Reynolds dream of setting himself up as a lobbyist with Lyall Knott's law firm cleaning up on people wanting an inside track, after he had shmoozed David Emerson into the Conservative fold, is looking a little shaky?

Sometimes the Universe answers.

Truman Green
Yep! Appreciate it now before it's gone.

The brain muses:

Yes there is something in the way: The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, to create any such law that cuts anyone out from participation in governance is the height of oppression. It is those very ideas that created the Soviet Union of 1919-89, should any politicoe here in Canada dream of establishing such laws I would hope that the Supreme Court would stand up for the charter - for certainly the GG would not; such a wet noodle appointed position.

There are NO contraventions for anyone with a criminal record to run for any public office in Canada, we - the electorate - more or less count on the media to point out the problems with various candidates. Sometimes the system works, sometimes not. The only rule about charges is FEDERAL indictable offences, and any Party that missed someone with that kind of offence not yet discharged deserves to have the candidate smeared.

Yes that is right you could have loads of criminal convictions and get elected to the house of commons. Now if you are still in jail it makes showing up to vote hard, but that is the reality.

Okay just for fun

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/2do-index.html

Proportional representation had absolutely nothing to do with the Bolshevik revolution - that's just plain nonsense!

Murdock: You are quite right. Harper VS the government of Canada would win again... but it could be tried regardless, and the charter could be overturned to include restrictions on politicians who serve the public interests as, there are restrictions. I believe you have to be a citizen, 18 years old, an Earthling, that sort of thing...

I'm tempted to break into NCC headquarters to steal their contributor list, make it public, get thrown in jail for a few years, run for office in jail, and win! Just get me internet connections... :-)

Your cinicism/anger that is so apparant is understandable, Murdoch. However, it is only through people speaking up that concrete change happens. "The power of one is great; it becomes the power of many" Yes, Independent candidates do have a lot to offer in speaking up on issues. Have you ever run as an Independent? Perhaps if you channelled your anger in such a manner, you would feel your own ability to make a difference.

My posted specific comments above, were anything but whining - I am speaking from experience with this old boys club.

As for your comment to me to take my own advice: If you knew who I am, you would know that I have a solid public, record of taking responsibility; I looked in the mirror a long time ago and got my answer: to continue to speak up and to take responsibility, as a woman!

It is always through the courage to persist, speak up with the truth, that wins the day - it all starts with each of us.

Having just observed Emerson interviewed by BCTV news it affirms what many of us have been saying- this guy is a real sleazeball- he feels he doesn`t owe the voters of Van-Kingsway an apology. Democracy has taken a real hit with this crap.

Why has Harper received so few brickbats compared with Emerson on this thread?

Can it be that tyee readers are relieved that Harper has demonstrated zero interest in adhering to his stated principles, and are hopeful that he will ignore some of his less popular principles as well (on defence, foreign wars, tax equity, child care, etc.)?

In any event, why waste so much time and energy excoriating Liberals/conservatives behaving as they always have? Or is the gripe that Harper has shown less than the canadian concern for keeping up appearances (for principled behavour)?

Is Emerson the RAV man?

After listening to NW this morning and some of the afternoon radio show on the same station, all hosts falling over themselves defending Emersons Conservative conversion, there was an underlying theme, that we need this man in Ottawa to ensure Federal money for the Olympics and rapid transit (RAV).

Has anyone noticed that RAV and the Canada Line are barely mentioned anymore, rather it's all called rapid transit.

It seems in a space of 24 hours, the message has been sent out by the Board of Trade, and their corporate cronies, that the defection of this latter day Judas, will be good for BC as it will safeguard funding for the Olympics and rapid and/or urban transit!

Me thinks the powers that be and corporate elites (including major media - those tens of millions in advertising dollars you know), seeing RAV about to dissolve into a $3 billion cousin of the Fastferry fiasco and wanting to insure that those billions federal & provincial tax dollars find their way into the pockets of the companies they represent, paved the way for Emersons defection.

I told you so!

protest this weekend if you want him gone.{,const. off.} send him packing back to the west end....take back your neighbourhood!

Actually, I agree it is not the only valid response... I just think the war to be waged against corporate culture must be a subversively inventive, often underground, and clever one...my weapons of choice for the treacherous times ahead... but I agree not necessarily always the only effective ones.

Colin:

You may not remember it, but there was an election when Socreds were scampering around Oak Bay saying "Don't vote for Vic Stevens, he's a queer!" (Two BC conservative candidates had come out in the middle of the campaign) And his children were hit - and hurt - by it on the street.

There were also threatening phone calls made around the province, rocks through campaign office windows, signs torn down, etc... some folks on the right take their politics seriously.

R. Smiley

Thanks, chuckstraight

Emerson has been a complete disaster in both his Global and CTV interviews. He said on Global that he ran a "non-partisan campaign office." What an idiot.

What contempt for his electorate. I guess they were supposed to intuit (somehow) that his attacks on the Tories were "non-partisan."

I have heard through a few people in Ottawa that he's NOT such a star, and he wasn't that great for his constituents. He said on CTV today that he would only be in for a few years anyway.

His attitude was that wee were lucky to have him.

I have NEVER loathed a politician so much, no not even the extremes of the Reform anti-gay people. At least they have been consistent.

And we can't get rid of him....

The guy is a PhD economist who has lost any contact with reality 40 years ago, so what else can anybody expect from him, or any of the products of our university economics departments?

Ed Deak.

Now he`s seen on the National News. I wonder what others in Canada think of this? We must look pretty stupid. And Emerson has it switched around to a point of view that the electors are priveliged to have him as their representative in Ottawa, rather than the other way around.What arrogance. I wonder how much his paycheque that we pay to him has increased from this little move?

Frankly, the sooner David Emerson shuts up, the less damage he will inflict on himself. His interviews display David Dingwall-like hubris. The money came in because of me, not my party! If Paul Martin had won, I'd be in that cabinet too! I bet he thinks the good people of Vancouver Kingsway voted for the man, and not the party, or that his volunteers worked for him, and not for the Liberals. Of course, empathizing with the little people is inappropriate for a man who, according to the pundits, isn't really suited for the opposition bench. At least Emerson will work hard to avoid another election, since even he must know that this is his last term as MP.

frank2
Look around, the criticism is there - just not on this thread.
In a way the Emerson affair is actually worse than anything the Chretien Liberals ever did. At least in the Liberals case the motive was understandable and had some relationship to the public good and at least the 'idea' that this is a country worth saving.
Harper, Emerson, Reynolds and company have no appreciation of the public at all. And their idea of a country is something to be milked for the last available bloody dollar. The only thing they care about is themselves and power.
The question is, what next? How do you respond when this kind of self-serving nonsense slaps the whole damn country in the face?

No response means acceptance and suggests that this whole nation is nothing but an idle talk shop - any suggestions, practical doable things I mean?

BC Mary and others re: Stockwell Day, Minister of Public Safety is no joke. The guy is no in charge of the RCMP, CSIS, border security and that little piece of legislation the feds passed right after 9/11 that gives them the right to incarcerate any one of us for as long as they want without charges or prosecution. No joke. Plus, I believe, he is also in charge of deep integration with the U.S. on all security matters.
Someone else noted that Emerson was Vice-Chairman of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives!!! I knew about his corporate past, but had no idea he was in league with this crowd. This is the Tom d'Aquino organization that has been working for two decades to sell Canada out to the U.S. Half of this so-called Canadian Council is made up of U.S. execs. and they have been responsible for a great deal of shadowy pressure to herd Canadians into the maw of the Americans. They have been working on the so-called "deep integration" of Canada and the U.S. for years now.

But, back to Stockwell. I recall watching a parliamentary committee grilling Anne McLellan when "our Patriot Act" was up for review. One MP asked why a certain requirement was being written into the act since it was of no benefit at all to Canada. McLellan at least had the humility to blush when she said "Because the Americans want it." I can't imagine how Canada will fare "working with" the Americans to "harmonize" security, policing, laws, etc.

This is madness, and I believe that's exactly what the Cons planned to do, minority or not, if they got into government -- hit us and hit us hard so will just be reeling, not knowing what to do or think. They'll be outrageous, throw us all off balance, sometimes looking like they're reasonable (e.g. OK, we'll honour the child care promise for two years), other times just thumbing their noses at us, and always, behind the scenes putting things in place to secure their power for a long, long time.

They're banking on us all being nice Canadians who'll give them the benefit of the doubt, or won't get off our asses to protest until it's too late. And they're banking on the opposition parties not having the balls to turf em out soon. And you can bet they've lined up all sorts of ways they can make changes without having to go to the House of Commons for a vote. They'll do everything they can to avoid a "money bill" so that they can evade being brought down. They'll make back-room deals with all the other parties, try to snare them with little plums, etc. These people are nasty and ugly. We need to step up to the plate hard and soon.

Yes, we do need a riot, or how about putting a stop to all federal government business by occupying federal offices. If customs agents can go off the job because they want guns, then surely voters can peacefully and passively protest this outrageous assault on our democratic system by showing up at federal government offices everywhere (or maybe jam the banks, or select some key businesses... )gotta think of where it will hurt the wallets of the corporate elite most. Bullying is the only thing these people understand.

We need action, not just words, mine or anyone else's. Can we have a spontaneous Canada-wide initiative of some sort? Collaborate with friends and family who live elsewhere to make it known we won't allow the Harper administration to hijack our country. He got the smallest minority in Canadian history -- let's not forget that, and let's not let them forget that!
Please let me know if any of you are interested in making a nation-wide show of disgust with the Harper administration.

Of course I would have a key typo in my posting. It should say:

BC Mary and others re: Stockwell Day, Minister of Public Safety is no joke. The guy is now in charge of the RCMP, CSIS, border security and that little piece of legislation the feds passed right after 9/11 that gives them the right ...

I think we need a new word to describe these types? Not sure which spelling works best.

Emercenary or Emersonary? You know, one of those hired economic soldiers who are sent to foreign countries to wage secret war.

Some blasts from the past:

She is probably the flakiest person ever to have sit as an MP. Good riddens to bad rubbish. - Ron Erwin

She crossed the floor for political ambition and a chance to yield power. Corruption corrupts and Paul Martin dangled the jewels of power in front her and she fell for it. If she had class and morals she could have declared herself an independent. This way she would not taint herself and not piss off the people that voted for her and the Conservatives. - Colin

I can only imagine the bitterness in Long time Liberals who have worked hard only to be passed up by someone who care nothing for them or their party. She is likely to be a one election wonder and will not be elected again. - Colin

Thanks Truman for the heads up! Caught your note just in time. Mulroney is guilty

77% of the riding got the finger and only a handful of folks were protesting outside his office, but I hear the online petition is snowballing, I'm with Sunny, lets have a gathering at David's office, anyone , how about this Sat, come on a couple of hours , make friends have fun, who will bring the coffee.

We gave him the mandate, he is not his gift to us, arrogant whore. Come one come all, lets
ramp this up until he steps down or needs escort by RMCP everywhere like his buddy
Gordo

Thanks Frank, I caught the show as well. How long has the CBC got now that the Harpo crew will be in position to appoint Crown Corp heads? I always thought that Ly'n Brian was a snake.
For Emerson's new nick-name try "COmercenary", or just plain and simple,"jiggalo".

Woody I fervently hope you are right.

I wanted to see Martin gone really bad and was willing to put up with a neo-con minority government as the price to see the millionaire who's been ripping off Canadians gone for good with no legacy worth speaking of. (Btw I'm normally a very kind person.)

I knew my wish of the cons getting just one more seat than the Fiberals wouldn't come true and wasn't terribly happy about the number of seats the cons got.

But there must be somebody in the sky (or somewhere else) guiding this rotten ship of state as Harper shot himself in the foot, not once, but twice, before the House even sat.

May you be right and let the good times roll!

Mr Harper!! Mr Harper!! Mr Harper!!

Aim straight down.

On the other hand maybe I'm too optimistic about an electorate that couldn't care less about a millionaire passing a retroactive law to avoid paying taxes in the country he wanted to lead.

As to Emerson: I think he should be required to read and memorise all the things written about him. It might do wonders to his self-esteem.

A high class whore he is not!

Elray: Read the thread. If you think the Cons are any better than the class clowns we got rid of, your on the pipe.

Maybe you should read what I wrote. It certainly wasn't any admiration for the cons. (I voted for Libby Davies)

secondlook writes:

I mused with others about it before the last election, with Dec 2 as a litmus test date.

We did some boiler room calling and discovered that either the NDP or Conservative were going to win and that the $1000 would be prohibitive to raise in the short time (really from the 2nd to the 15th since most other folks would not be interested in coming out to fund-raising dinners, speaking etc). Not to mention the needs to get the signatures, trying chase down enough of them in the short time was also next to impossible.

This is why the 'machines' of the party are needed and why so very few Independants run, they have little or no influence, the electorate is indifferent and the pay (compared to what can be found for less effort) is really sub-standard.

Eddy
I will look for the tape and respond when I have seen it.

Ripponfalls

Yes it has happened in the past and is was not right then and not right now, I was the son of a politician and I certainly would not want to be targeted because of my dad’s politics. How will we get good people into politics if they have to worry about their families and children being harassed and targeted, would you get involved if you knew that was what would happen to them?

I also make it a point to repair and put up election signs if they have been knocked down, even if they are from a party I won’t vote for.

G West
This is worse that what Chrétien has done? The crossing over is slimy and morally wrong, agreed. But Chrétien and the Liberals misused and misdirected taxpayer monies, that is far worse and most likely several laws were broken.

Grw

Thank you for quoting me, and I agree that the same comment applies to this case in regards to class and morals. Belinda left the CPC at a crucial moment and in knowing that it would change the balance of power, Emerson left a sinking ship in disarray, not because the leadership of the CPC is corrupt, but for the desire to stay in power. I have more understanding for Harper motives and situation than Martins, but I still think it was morally wrong to give him a cabinet seat.

Emerson:

"If I knew that politics would be as it has been recently, I wouldn't have run to begin with."

I propose this as the new definition of chutzpah.

marta writes:

this is what you get with the parachute candidate.

he has never really faced them and Vancouver-Kingsway electorate got what they voted for, a political opportunist.

I agree that the children shouldn't suffer as a result of their dad not having any ethical standards.

However, he said it was the other children that were harassing his kids.

So stop lecturing the adults here. I think just about everybody posting here is mature enough to not blame the children.

But, but, but ... it gets us back to the appaling example Emerson gave his children, doesn't it?

I always feel sorry for the kids of a Man whore, I never seen David working Kingsway , Sign the petition folks and get active

Samson and Grumpy
Right on!
Some fat, pin-stripe, board of trade, "jaba-the-hut" was trotted out on corporate media tv last night to say how "delighted" he and his rav line, olympic profiteering, circle jerc buddies were about emerson's defection.(he then stuffed a live squirrel into his mouth!!)
Wow, a ringing endorsement from an overfed, corrupt businessman!! Impressive.
As for that goof stockwell day I'll take a quote from his hero and say:
"bring it on!"
p.s.- speaking of that cracker bush he cynically invited himself to Coretta King's funeral to make some political points with black people!!(his approval rating with blacks is around 7% so I don't know why he thought he would be welcome-well other than cuz he's an arrogant idiot without a f'n clue)
Anyhow for once he did'nt have a hand-picked crowd of gop zombies with prescreened comments so the speakers really laid into him! You should have seen him squirm like the filthy little rat that he is! It was beautiful!!

right on, jesterjogger--on the Coretta King funeral.

Colin - your post 1 hour ago.

I suppose that needs some explanation so here goes.
Chretien, who's main reason for being in politics was to keep the country together, ran an incredibly sloppy government, no question. Many of his appointees deserved what Gomery said about them and I don't disagree. What I meant was simply that the motivation for the sponsorship effort was to keep this country whole - it was a noble undertaking badly handled. Think back to the last referendum and you'll understand. Put yourself beneath that big flag in downtown Montreal, you have to look at in that context, I think.

Harper, in his motivation for getting Emerson to defect is completely political - it has no purpose outside of political self-interest and that's the difference, in my opinion. There is no possible analogy for Harper to shill for Emerson in the current context; he's just been given a mandate by the people, a mandate he's promised to pursue in a certain fashion. To suggest that there is any similarity between the situations if a pretty big stretch, in my opinion.

Further, contrasted to Harper's alleged philosophy and his mantra of how different and corrupt the Liberals were, his solicitation - so shortly after the funeral - of part of the corpse as a supposedly vital component of the team the Canadian electorate (in their wisdom?) gave him is far more ethically challenged than what Chretien did. Both made bad choices - at least in Chretien's case the goal had some nobility at its inception.

rockyvoids,

Yep, the CBC is one of the things I'm concerned about although I'm keeping my powder dry till I see something actually happen.

Ya that was interesting seeing as how he lied in court. He had some money problems after leaving office? Ya right, he was sitting on a bunch of boards so his business buddies were taking care of him and you know he could have borrowed a few bucks if he had to cover a bill.

Fact is he took $300,000 in cash from Schreiber and he got $2 million from the taxpayers after lying in court about it. I hope somebody nails him to the wall. No wonder him and Harper are all cuddly now, his butt is safe with the Cons in power.

G-west
Thank you for your views, I think the sponsorship scandal was attempt to hastily fix the problems created by the Liberals in the first place. I don’t believe Chrétien’s motives were so moralistic. Government accounting procedures were put there to ensure that Canadians can have some faith in how there money is spent, Conscious attempt to circumvent them is a dangerous and slippery road, even if the original intent was noble.

Don’t get me wrong I am glad the referendum went the way it did, and I won’t knock you for feeling good about that moment, but I not proud of how it was handled and I think we will all pay a price for that.

Colin
I don't have any problems agreeing with you on that basis at least partially. I lived in Ottawa and Montreal in the 70s and 80s and I certainly don't disagree that fiscally we have a right to expect a lot more from our elected representatives than they've frequently delivered. You can't hang it all on Chretien or Martin any more than you could Mulroney though and we have no idea what Harper's going to do except shift a bunch of tax points to the provinces where another brand of politicians will spend the largesse. I bet there won't be enough strings attached to the fiscal transfers then to give the average taxpayer any more confidence in the way his or her money's being spent than it he or she has now.

I was simply making the point that the object of Chrietien's misguided program was noble at its inception and it had a valuable purpose in terms of trying to keep a country that I still care for together. I suspect you feel the same way.

In my opinion, what Harper's done here with Emerson can't be glossed in a positive way no matter how you spin it, witness the futile business-based arguments that are being made in justification in the media.
I've been watching John Reynold's influence on Canadian politics for years. I thought he'd retired but from the number of times I've heard him in the media in the last couple of days I guess he's still on retainer.

Hope that makes my position clear. It's a judgment call after all and that's my judgment. Harper promised something different and he's demonstrably failed to deliver at the very first opportunity he had - I think that's pitiful and, as I said, on a moral and ethical level maybe even worse than Chretien - as I've tried to explain.

cheers

Colin, the Oka file is not a pretty one. It has all appearances of a Quebec seperatist government attempt to deal with the native problem foisted onto them by the Charter. Quebec's attempt at using force failed and Mulroney toadied up to Quebec by sending in the military. The police may have even killed one of their own in an attempt to discredit the natives. This all escaped media attention here because Canada was part of the Desert Storm build up and that was the ongoing story of the day.

There's tons of comments above I'd venture to quip on, but I've chosen the follow two quotes for now:

This is true; but there's a BIG difference between an MP who still represents the party and constituents who elected him and one who has betrayed those voters by switching parties. Switching parties means he won't bring his supposed big-L Liberal agenda with him, but will be adopting the Tory line due to the old caucus discipline thing. Agree with everything the leader says; an Honourable Yes Man, so to speak.

It does seem time the title "honourable" was dropped from cabinet minister's appelations, though....

And yeah, actually I did notice the last couple of nights that most of the coverage was on local BC stations. Global National's cuddly axe-grinder Kevin Newman didn't touch on the story at all last night, unless I wasn't paying close attention. It's as if the outrage in BC and Vancouver-Kingsway over this the networks don't want to expose the national audience to; very much like the political uprising in '83, which was heavily downplayed and misrepresented in the rest of the country.

I'm wondering if what Emerson committed isn't actual capital-F fraud, as in a criminal offence. Isn't misrepresenting your intentions and taking money for those misrepresented intentions an indictable offence? Not just a suit to recover the funds, but a criminal case to charge with FRAUD seems to be what's required.

Of course, like Ralph Goodale and innumerable Mulroney ministers before him, he'll refuse to resign while the investigation is underway, and denounce his detractors as unpatriotic rabble etc. etc.

Why should anyone be surprised that Emercenary moved his digs to a bordello that caters to a clientele with higher standards?

grw posted -- Woody,
With comments like yours, Woody, you're in no position to talk about anyone else's wisdom.
Really now, grw and who died and appointed you the "Guru" of this site.

I read in your postings quite a few comments and quotes from other contributors, one in particular, with whom most of us are familiar with.

She is probably the flakiest person ever to have sit as an MP. Good reddens to bad rubbish. Ron Erwin To resort to a quote from Ron Erwin , who was criticized by so many, indicates a lack of imagination, and personal hygiene on your part.

Eddy Haskell, your comments on Oka remind me so much of the latter Gustsafsons Lake dispute in the BC Cariboo/Chilcotin in the early '90s.

A very messy and questionable police confrontation of a somewhat provocative aboriginal ceremony. The RCMP and who ever was advising them screwed up badly, whined loud enough to get military support and then attempted to bullshit everyone as to what was taking place.

It seems that if it weren't for the incompetence of both the police and the bumbling military which got itself in more problems than there really were, are the only reason a full on battle didn't occur.

All I can say is if CSIS was the agency providing the intelligence on this they ought to be disbanded.

February 10, 2006

Glen P. Robbins
robbinssceresearch.com

Mr. David Beers

McGrady, Baugh and Whyte

Dear Sirs

I conduct public opinion polls and have done since 1998.

Under the recent Tyee ‘blog-article’ Emerson: The Power and the Tory, a blogger under the name Sammy Samsun has defamed and or libeled me. I do include my polling name and my real name in these blogs.

My polling firm has a history of accuracy in public opinion polling which is irrefutable, and would be considered irrefutable by anyone who reviews our results against real events.

Under the blogsite Pickton Trial: Who were the Victims? I write a little about what I perceive the law to be relative to that particular discussion.

I have a degree in Political Science, however in 1996 a BC Supreme Court Judge Ordered that “I be treated as a lawyer at all times”.

As you know the Tyee is responsible for what is written on its website. In fact, within the blogstream article involving Mr. Emerson, another ‘blogger’ makes reference to the fact that ‘bloggers’ have been kicked off the site, presumably for one indiscretion or another.

Mr/Mrs. Samsun whoever he or she is, (as I am sure you will acknowledge) is playing pretty fast and loose with the Tyee’s assets. Not only is one case of fraud difficult to prove but also 150-200 cases would be impossible, particularly against our history of accuracy, which is virtually unmatched.

I would ask that the appropriate protocols be instituted here including a written apology, and I would expect a banning of the person who wrote the defamatory comments.

Sincerely,

Glen P. Robbins
(604) 942-3757

Eddy
I am aware of the screwups of the “Surete Quebec” (spelling?) Certainly not the most outstanding police force, and I doubt they killed one of their own on purpose, bungled things badly getting one of their members killed by either a fellow officer or one of the natives is more likely. The factor that lead up to this in my view were:

Arrogance from the local municipality to the local FN and their issues
Long stemming racism and heavy handedness from the provincial police (who have a bad rep for such)
Internal dispute within the band and intimidation by the criminal element who make their living by smuggling and supported the more radical fringe.

These elements lead to the “perfect political storm”

The army was initially welcomed as the band felt it was going to protect them from revenge by the police force, the army had orders not to interfere with the police operations and that built up anger in the community. The army actually did a excellent job in a tense situation and a major bloodbath was avoided, credit also goes to elements within the FN community that were able to reign in their own hotheads.

I notice that they still have policing problems there and a bunch of pistols, semi-automatic rifles and grenade launchers purchased by the FN police department that was overrun have gone missing and the government has not done anything about it. The FN in Ontario and Quebec have their own version of the Mafia and have successfully prevent local FN police from interfering in their activities.

As for the stone throwing, I will look up the video, would this have anything to do with the protests that took place on the bridge?

A very messy and questionable police confrontation of a somewhat provocative aboriginal ceremony. The RCMP and who ever was advising them screwed up badly, whined loud enough to get military support and then attempted to bullshit everyone as to what was taking place.

This was the affair that spawned the immortal Peter Montague quote: "We (the RCMP) specialize at smear campaigns".

But I did want to ask if "a somewhat provocative aboriginal ceremony" was the Montana cowboys hired by Lyall James who rode in on the Sundance site cracking whips and calling the assembled natives "red niggers"?

"somewhat provocative aboriginal ceremony"? The one that went unreported in the Sun and the Province and BCTV, same as they tried to NOT report on the Seton Portage incident and we had to get the real news from the Seattle papers?

Right.....well, the advent of the Sundance in the BC Interior may be culturally questionable, but so are Methodist Churches, Sikh temples, and welfare offices....

Your version certainly mimics the official Quebec explanation, Colin. Like I said, the MSM did not adequetly cover the story as we were sidetracked in Iraq. The funny thing about Gustaffen Lake was that my circle of friends predicted that the standoff would continue until the first frost of the season. Why did our government not asume the same thing?

skookum 1, thank you for that clarification. I certainly don't mean to imply anyone should confine his or her spiritual or whatever beliefs to some narrow historic perspective.

Otherwise I'd be sans the underwear, even in cold days, and prancing about in my kilt laddie.

Montegue reminds me very much of Joseph Trutch, another fellow privilaged at birth and through out life, who caused even more grief for BC's aboriginals by essentially robbing many of them of the reserves granted to them less than a decade earlier by then governor James Douglas.

I can picture Trutch smiling also as he bragged of the powers he held over BC's Indians.

And this man, who publicly stated he hated Indians, managed to be appointed as BC's first Lt. Gov.

Now that's provocative!

I thought I had followed the Gustaffson Lake dispute fairly closely, ( I had channels through the Shuswap (Secwepemc) Nation Tribal Council), but hadn't heard about the Montana cowboys.

But it certainly doesn't surprise me as it was American cattle outfits that ended up with much of the lands lost to the various reserves when the Douglas reserves were shrunk by Trutch.

Fuzzy history. Gustafsen Lake/Ts'peten was not in grazing lease until 1976, until which time it was in Government Reserve, as was the vast bulk of BC's lands until the Miniwac regime came in. It's then that Lyall James leased (or bought?) that area. The "red niggers" thing was reported in The Straight and/or Terminal City or such, and also was in the US papers (who again, are often more reliable on sensitive matters in BC than BC papers are). James' cowboys on that raid - they circled the Sundance camp, cracking whips, firing pistols and calling out "red niggers"....I know lots of rednecks in the BC Interior, and some pretty harsh ones; but I've never heard them talk like that, which ultimately is a USian expression.

Gustafsen Lake has a lot more to it than I'd care to go into here. The comparison between Trutch and Montague doesn't work; one was a corrupt bureaucrat, the other a career policeman (who has since tried to turn politician). The modern-era equivalent to Trutch and his ilk was Bill Bennett (Miniwac), not Montague.

Bennett knew full well that the Government Reserve had been set aside all over BC pending eventual resolutions of the lands issue with Ottawa and the natives. But he chose to sell it off and lease it out in timber berths and grazing leases. And needless to say, the people that got their shares in that huge giveaway were political backers and financial supporters.

I seem to recall a Lyall James connection in this regard but I don't have the facts on hand and would be wary, I think, of saying the wrong thing and being sued. But in MacBlo's case it was a truism, as with other forest companies; the GR, formerly sacrosanct and pristine, was up for grabs, and they managed to grab nearly all of it.

There's a certain irony in both the cowboy-vs-Indian and sundance elements in the story originally coming from the US....

And to add, only a few of the cattle outfits in early BC were American, and none of the big ones were. Robert Carson sold out Pavilion Mountain, one of the province's (colony's) oldest ranches, to Captain Martley, a Briton. Other big ranchers tended to be British; George Forbes Vernon, John Andrew Mara, the eponymous officer Cornwall of the Cornwall Ranch at Ashcroft (forgotten his name), Capt Martley and his various neighbours, and others, all were Britons.

Smaller ranchers and farmers in the early days were often American in certain areas, but many and more common also were Chinese and were variously European, including the Basque Ranch at Ashcroft Manor (European via Nevada, I believe, though), and there was the famous Australian Ranch north of Keithley Creek on the way to Barkerville (not big, just two guys and a great spread of food for travellers).

This just reported yesterday in our local paper:

The man Harper appointed as Canada's new Minister of Justice, Vic Toews, was convicted of breaking the law about campaign financing in Manitoba. He pled guilty, no contest.

Is there no end to the lack of respect Harper will show for the people of Canada? How do we explain this to our kids? Let's urge the opposition parties to bring this government down, and fast.