Well I can’t say much on this because my office is involved, but The story about the unrest in the band does make interesting reading.

Besides the new money ( 100 million ) set aside for Indians, the BC Govt. also made a committment to seniors.
I don't think that this committment to seniors was meant to turn a blind eye to seniors participating in criminal activities, was it ?

Ron, are you the type of guy who thought Rosa Parks should have just given up her seat to a white guy just because she was black? I mean, that was the law after all, wasn't it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks

(I wish I had a handy Canadian analogy, but I think this one is very appropriate.)

Sometimes the law and justice are not the same thing. Resisting laws that are not just can bring about constructive change.

Goweropolis' I know that Rosa Parks was the negro woman who courageously refused to move to the back of the bus.
I also know that the budget of the Govt. of Canada has 10 billion dollars per year dedicated to the Dept. of Indian Affairs ( if that's still their name )
Don't try to play the race card on me as I am not racist. Unless you consider the phrase " all men are created equal " as being racist. Some people do find this racist as they expect minorities to be treated as more than equal.

Ron, the fact is that people don't exepect minorities to be treated as more than equal; they do expect that wrongs done to minorities will be redressed. They expect also that treaties and other contracts made with those minorities will be honoured.
The myth of the level playing field is often used as a justification for not doing so.

Canada's First Nations have survived attempted genocide, and the supression of their culture and spiritual beliefs (most notably at the residential schools), but it hasn't been easy for them, and not to acknowledge that the events of the recent past have had an adverse effect on our common destiny as Canadians is simply willful ignorance.

Mostly, though, I have to wonder why it is you continue to visit The Tyee. Obviously, nobody here is won over by the style or content of your arguments, and you almost never directly address people's responses to you. I'm beginning to think you might be a closet progressive.

Of course Ron is unaware that there is no "Dept. of Indian Affairs" within the Government of Canada. Because he's not a "raciist, you know. So Aboriginals are to be known as "indians" because that's the term Columbus labled them just before the Spanairds slaughtered them to possess thier lands and other wealth. Go buy some gasoline Ron and live up to your pathetic ideas of corporate worship and the dehumanizing activities that are inspired from the "anything for a buck" mentality so aptly demonstrated by Larry, his brother Daryl and his other brother Daryl at the Roadkill Cafe.

Love to see you lefties showing your ignorance. For your information Eddy, there is indeed a Department of Indian Affairs http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/index_e.html because that is what they are. Natives is also accurate but First Nations is simply a politically correct jokephrase fashioned for all you oversensitive Dr. Phil Commercial Drive types.

I have a friend who is an Indian Chief, and proud to be called just that, so take your racist views and peddle them somewhere else Eddy. 10 billion, that's $33,333.99 per Indian, none of it ( Nunavit ) gets there. I suppose it's eaten up by the Indian Industry full of politicians, lawyers, social workers et al. Are you one of them Eddy ?
I say let's get out of this aparteid system we have now. It's NOT WORKING so FO with your pathetic response.

The First Nations need to get land claims and treaties in place fairly soon. As the immigrant and non-Caucasian population of BC continues to rise, the desire to resolve them favourable will wane. Most people coming from areas of the world where there has been countless invasions and occupations will have little sympathy for their position and will not support politicians or government policies that gives them special rights.

The "Indian Industry"? Are you sure you are not a racist? Go pay your taxes icehole.

Does anyone complain that the Territories and Acrtic are considered Canada. The Feds spend a lot of money up there exerting our authority to call it Canada. It is not fair to blame the natives as a scapegoat to account for the billions of dollars Ottawa spends to keep little used airports in the middle of nowhere in operation, plus all the other logistics required to keep the resource industry going. But that's what Ronnie would have you do. We could give to North to another nation. I don't think many of them would complain about spending some monies up there. Alaska is a prime example.

My sister worked with DIANAD/INAC and was not impressed by them. I certainly don’t blame the Indian’s for despising that department.

You certainly can’t lump the bands into one pot either. Some are very hard working and organized, so are very not. The present course of rebuilding the culture is a good foundation for progressive bands to move forward on. In fact this is where much of the internal conflict comes from, move forward, different directions, how much or try to stay the same.

Hello Kitty' what's a progessive ?

Hello Kitty' what's a progessive ?

Basically, a nicer way of saying "leftie".

For the most part lefties take one step up and two steps back. Nothing progressive about that.

It's good to see the situation with the Tahltan is receiving more coverage in the Canadian media. What little I have seen in other sources doesn't seem to present all the sides of the story. I think this article provides an excellent opportunity to discuss the case and get a clearer idea of all the parties and interests involved. Too bad it got highjacked so quickly.

I'll pose the same question to nemesis that I did to Ron: so, you're here for what, exactly?

Now what was it we named us? Homo Sapiens?

"Ron, are you the type of guy who thought Rosa Parks should have just given up her seat to a white guy just because she was black?""

"10 billion, that's $33,333.99 per Indian, none of it ( Nunavit ) gets there."

"Canada's First Nations have survived attempted genocide"

"The "Indian Industry"? Are you sure you are not a racist? Go pay your taxes icehole."

"So Aboriginals are to be known as "indians" because that's the te'rm Columbus labled them"

Hate getting into arguments with idiots but when someone suggests that Indians are getting better treatment than the rest of the country I think the speaker ought to have a great big R for racist stamped onto it's brow, or it that a B for bigot.

You right wing wonders who think your gandpappy helped conquer the Indians are about as scary as they come. You wallow in your own self perpetuated ignorance, whining about how everyone else gets everything.

To suggest that Canadas first nations are responsible for the waste of $11 billion a year pumped into the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development tells me one of three things: you are truly ignorant, you fear anyone different from yourself especially those who have legitimate claims against this government or you are a bald-faced liar who will use the Tyee to spread your poison.

DIAND has been a sink hole for money for eons and very little of it actually ever ends up in the hands of Indians, whether they be chiefs, warriors or single mothers.

The department has an oversized bureaucracy and still employs many of the same arrogant agents I've seen prancing and strutting around on reserves across BC.

These people still have far too much say over who gets funds and as often as not it appears that the funds get to people willing to kiss the agent's arse, plain and simple.

The Indian Act, which that patronizing department oversees is the most racist piece of legislation in Canada.

With the demise of apartheid South Africa, the Indian Act leaves Canada with the worst official policy against their Aboriginal peoples of any country anywhere.

Perhaps its time for some of the younger band or First Nations people to step up to the plate and take up the battle their parents and grandparents are being arrested for.

It's a resource war and until the government recognizes your rights, your only hope is to win the war by opposing the government and the resource exploiters.

Chase the suckers out because if you don't you will be chased out through environmental degredation, loss of food sources and what ever other crap these capitalist porkers can burden you with.

And when the resource is gone your children will be left with toxic lakes and dying forests.

nemesis, I really stretch my imagination sometimes wondering why you bother with your blathering (see above 1 hour ago).

You make that other guy that most of us ignore look smart. But then maybe he's yor other personality, like Dumb and even friggin Dumber.

Scylla, you're too concise a commentor not to be making a point with this:

But it's obviously been a long day, as I'm not quite grasping it. Help?

Well, Scylla is Rafe Mair. Have readers noticed a similar bombastic manner between the two? And he is up to it again. That is, he is promoting the corporate backed Wise Use movement and the 1930s fascist Deep Ecology of pre-Nazi Germany. Just Google these terms with "and corporation."

You can check Rafe's/Scylla's comments section of http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/08/30/SalmonWars/

I guess this is one of Rafe's strategies for influencing Greens in BC: to recruit members with corporate/fascist agendas. If the Greens become a right-wing fascist party, great. They can split the Liberal vote. Now only if he can get a hold of Dave Basi and his fundraising techniques.

Hellokitty:

Species, Homo, (humankind)
Sub species, Sapiens, ("The wise")
This thread exhibits little evidence of that.

Asher, for example, flames books he hasn't read; thinks I am promoting Wise Use when I suggest he read a book written solely to trash that insidious philosophy; and THEN he recommends a site which is as`full of looney toons as he is. Imagine! Deep Ecology as Corporate-loving Fascism.!

Asher is just a native variant of you-know-who. but without the savvy to understand what it is he thinks he's flaming. :-}

Hellokitty:

Species, Homo, (humankind)
Sub species, Sapiens, ("The wise")
This thread exhibits little evidence of that.

Asher, for example, flames books he hasn't read; thinks I am promoting Wise Use when I suggest he read a book written solely to trash that insidious philosophy; and THEN he recommends a site which is as`full of looney toons as he is. Imagine! Deep Ecology as Corporate-loving Fascism.!

Asher is just a native variant of you-know-who. but without the savvy to understand what it is he thinks he's flaming. :-}

Hello Kitty; You ask "what am I doing here ? "
I am offering my opinion on issues posted on this website. Apparentley I am allowed to. I realise you think it's offensive for me to offer views that are not progessive ( a nice way of saying left wind (bag)), but The Tyee has not deleted me so I guess I will continue

Actually Ron's been telling me to "FO" instead of offering his opinion. Go back to work Ron and pay your taxes. Gordo hasn't finished paying off his pals yet. Your Gold...His Era!

Eddie' sorry, I should have sais INDIAN and Northern Affairs Canada.
They are in charge of anyone having an affair in northern Canada.

Remember the many of us have joined the Ignore Ron Erwin Posts Club.

You can too!

Just ignore his posts-period!

How can I defend myself when The Tyee editors have deleted my message for revealing who you are, Scylla?

Scylla is barely able to last 2 weeks without contradicting himself. Check his promoting of Wise Use at the Salmon Wars comments.

http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/08/30/SalmonWars/

Now it is back up.

sometimes i wish i was an indian.

"For the most part lefties take one step up and two steps back. Nothing progressive about that."

As opposed to the rightie's method... two steps back and one forward?

Actually, Stump, the righties have the lefties skidding backward faster than they can lift their feet.

This would be hilarious if we could ensure only the righties would pay the future costs.

I am glad Ron Irwin and others of his opinion contribute to this site otherwise it would be extremely boring. I like a lively discusion.

Mel,

Lively discussion???

The board usually slows down on weekends, but this is near death.

Perhaps at these times we should raise our own topics. It couldn't possibly be worse

The story presented one, Skep. Unfortunately, the topic is too emotionally charged to allow rational - or informed - discussion, let alone "Lively discussion".

Allan
Although I will agree that INAC is totally screwed up and at fault for much of the waste. Some of the fault can be laid at the feet of a number of the bands. I admit that they barely survived the clash with European civilization. The British were very effective in breaking down cultures. However if you took any dysfunctional community and threw craploads of money at it without good accounting, plus checks and balances. Money would go missing. The up coming generation will have some very hard questions for this current crop of first Nation leadership. I actually have great hope for them as I am often involved with FN’s and am seeing a major change in how they handle things over the last 20+ years.

However I take issue with your statement that we have the worst present policy for indigenous people in the world. Perhaps you should look at how the hill people in Vietnam are treated, Kurds in Turkey, not to mention China’s policy to indigenous people or Brazil’s.

I think when the RCMP arrests people for violation of a court order, that's the simple operation of the law that applies to everyone. The author appears to be suggesting that the government interfere with law enforcement so as to make it selective according to their own political agenda. Sorry, I can't see how that serves anyone.

When a company has a problem with the natives, a court order is enforced. When a women has a problem with an abusive spouse the court order is ignored until she is murdered. When someone breaks into my home and steals from me I am given a file number and then ignored. When a business is robbed the police do an acual investigation. Wouldn't you say law enforcement is already selective according to politics?

Might I point out that the government and these industries have in no way at all done things in a lawful, legal, moral, or proper fashion. They've pushed roads in without any proper process, they've violated traditional territory, they've ignored hunting, fishing, and trapping rights and generally acted like a bunch of bullies.

But the Tahltan are "criminals" ?

A woman who is standing up and demanding that due process be observed is lugged off to jail by the proud men and women of the Royal Canadian Mounted Pigs... but in spite of undeniable evidence that industry in this province has systematically broken each and every law, rule, and regulation regarding resource extraction, NOT ONE CEO has even had his ass hauled into court let alone been taken off to the slammer.

We keep hearing industry whining and whimpering about wanting a "level playing field". Well, it ain't a game, guys, the field slants in your favour, the LiEbrals should be indicted for contempt of court for their flagrant ignoring of the Delgamuuk decision and I've already sent money to these people to help them in their fight but though I can ill afford it I'll send more.

And Mr. Erwin, I will refrain from commenting on your claim that you are not a racist.

throw a few million into el gordo's campaign fund and you can buy the law! The mounties are nothing but rental cops, serving and protecting the rights of corporations over citizens.

Colin, I certainly agree with you on the British system of assimilation. It was very effective and sometimes it was so good there was no one left to even assimilate.

Yes, a new generation of first nations leaders will have tough issues to deal with, but no more tough than the current generation is struggling with.

Quite frankly when grandparents get hauled off to jail for protesting actions that came about primarily because the companies and government were able to sneak in the back door thanks to deals with select band members, there is something very wrong.

In fact, I would suggest, industry and government found a couple of people who are willing to sell off their heritage for a pitance and ignore the wishes of the majority of band members.

So a whole lot of gerrymandering has taken place and all of a sudden there are a bunch of so-called done-deals and now the Indians are being forced out of the way.

I'd love to see the how much time and money BC government lawyers spent assisting this company through the back door. You have to wonder if any of them ever thought, 'hey, what about the Indians?'

There seems to be a Mulroneyism in all of this, just like free trade.

Colin, I also agree the Kurds have had one tough go of it in Iraq and have suffered greatly.

The difference is we have a set of written laws that are enforced only on First Nations people, effectively making them wards of the queen or of Canada.

I'm certainly no expert on the Kurds, but I doubt Sodamn Insane ever got around to writing up a Kurd Act. I also doubt that Turkey did either but it seems more than willing to brutalize Kurds.

I will also note the laws have been improved somewhat since the days when Indians could not hire a lawyer to represent them on their own rights, couldn't vote, buy booze or even enter a good many nearby communities at night because the good non-aboriginal fathers of the burgs enacted bylaws specifically keeping Indians out.

Oh, but they could join the army and get killed as easy as any white guy.

So, Canadian Indians no longer get killed just for being Indian, but I doubt anyone of us would be willing to trade places with the Indians and their new found Canadian freedoms.

I too have done some work for First Nations and at one time wrote extensively on Indian issues, and I certainly agree with you their culture was destroyed intentionally.

And, as I look around and see all our white corporate leaders being hauled off to jail for theft or cheating, involving $Billions I wonder, would the next generation of First Nations leaders follow that course?

I don't think so.

I stand with my comment of 21 hrs ago. There is no arguing with otherwise intelligent people who prefer a deliberately biased interpretation of history, using events placed out-of-context.

"Discussion" here is useless.

Right Scylla/Rafe.

Some well informed comments are made, but what else would one expect from the man who wrote the Foreword to the anti-Indian guide "Our Home or Native Land?"

Since you were in government, Rafe, perhaps you could tell us a little bit about how provincial governemnts use RCMP informants in Indian bands to royally screw things up for First Nations communities?

Scylla, perhaps you could give us the official version of history regarding Canada's aboriginals.

Now don't forget to mention the smallpox-laced gift blankets, the fact that returning Indians vets after WW2 were told to get back on the reserve when they applied for veteran's benefits and the fact that most BC first nations are still waiting after 150 years to have some of their stolen land returned to them in accordance with in place then and still in place now.

Discussion certainly is useless when one party knows everyone else are biased no-nothings.

Allan
I don’t think you are doing them justice by saying that the companies found some people that would sell out their land and ignore the majority. What is going on is a major division within the band which is at a crossroads. Some of them want to take part in the modern culture and ensure that their kids don’t suffer through poverty. Others want to go back to more traditional ways and protect their culture. Both sides have strong points, but they themselves need to decide where they want to go. The people who were arrested knew what they were doing and choose to stay in order to get arrested and have their day in court. Most of the people had already left, I heard that all of the Iskut decided to leave before the arrest, as they had come mainly to give moral support to a band that had supported them.

Most of these companies also hire the local FN’s to carry out many of the surveys and the FN’s have far more impact on projects than people realize. I have been in meetings where the FN’s have been able to shut down projects completely. The days of Alcan doing what it wants are gone, the FN’s have learned how to use the courts to protect their interests and they have learned or hired people that are capable of dealing with large complicated projects. In fact I was in a project review meeting today and was impressed by the FN representatives and their ability to handle a huge amount of information and drill the proponent.