The big problem is still with the way which we elect our representatives, as long as we have plurality wards or at large, rather than a candidate centric system like STV, our system will be susceptible to the systematic advantages given to those who appeal to interest groups.

I've been told that a civic assembly on electoral reform will be pushed by two if not all of the Vancouver civic parties, and we will have a civic referendum on it before the 2008 elections. (The only group I'm not sure of is the Vision, as Green was silent on it in the provincial referendum.)

Our civic, provincial, and federal governments should all migrate away from plurality systems that can be swung with outside interference.

As for our provincial scene, it is looking like Gordon Campbell may put the STV vote to the legislature, so I encourage everyone to write to their MLAs and tell them how they feel about the 57% majority, one way or the other. Integrity starts with the electoral system,

“the Citizens for Affordable Housing”

I'm confused one part of the article talks about how the elite get everything, and the other talks about how affordable housing is a bad thing.
So, all the rich folks can have houses while all the middle class folk get to be shoved into tiny apartments?
I understand and sympathize with the concerns of urban sprawl... but also with the plight of people earning under $50,000 a year.
Damn, this world is too confusing.

Something else just hit me about this story... I notice it makes NO mention of the amount of money Unions donate to council members that push their adgendas on city council.

Canada and her provinces are in a grave crisis, perhaps the gravest she's ever faced. Worse than political violence or separatism, which are expressions of valid grievances which, when perceived can at least be approached and dealt with.

It's always been possible to make contributions to our civil leadership. Through party organizations, campaign fundrasers and candidate election funds we could give money indirectly to these people to express our desires or affiliations.

But Auditors, conflict of interest rules and public opinion has most always prevented gross abuses. Those checks and balances are all now either abolished or weakened by the very people who were prevented by them from selling their services outright. Our politicians now seem to accept bribes directly, through these loopholes, before their elections.

The theory seems to be that you can't be bribed until after you're elected.

For years dismayed citizens have been regaled with dribs and drabs of information leaking past the news controls of the Aspers about big contributions by companies and such who, just by coincidence you understand, then receive huge benefits, usually to the great howls of protest from the taxpayers whose money is used by these corrupted officials to pay off their backers.

And always the work supposedly being paid for is done worse than before, sometimes not done at all, and sometimes there was no work there to do at all. Just money, our money, paid in great whacks to people we wouldn't trust in our dining rooms alone with Aunt Agatha's silver spoons.

And without the Auditors, disclosure rules and other checks and balances, the crooks can't even be fired or punished when they're caught outright.

It's a disgrace. It makes me ashamed, and it makes me angry

We have to address this. We need our Auditor back, stronger than ever and independent of the people they're there to audit. We need strong disclosure rules so we can see the money wherever it comes from and wherever it goes.

We need to be able to see and punish these betrayals. Or existence as a nation may well depend on it, and not only our country either.

Ahh those evil developers who want to promote affordable housing ... what about the evil developers who want to promote SmartGrowth and sustainable communities, too?

This author seems to be an environmentalist who forgets that sustainability also has social and economic imperatives.

Yes we need accountability, but this author needs better anecdotes to illustrate his points.

Povery, drugs, climate change and culture ? I think these issues are beyond our fractionalized councils to deal with. It's kida like Vancouver declaring itself a Nuclear Free Zone. As long as local councils are dominated by leftist union sponsored candidates, I dread opinions coming forth from this group on these matters.

Some councils are dominated like that...but others are dominated by the other half. Solution? No more contributions from either.

Who should the councils be dominated by , Ron?
Please explain who we should be dominated by, and tell us all how your way would be good for us.

ahh ronny irwin spews his usual rhetoric blaming the leftist union sponsored candidates, jeez irwin give it a break even you have to see that this is a lie, that you lie and all to promote your employers view point and maybe your own bottom line!

If the leftist horde were really in control do you think the developers would be having such a good time, I have met a few developers and the only thing they care about is their own pocket book, few and I mean dam few of them support the environment. It is all about greed with them.

The leftist I have met are pretty much against turning our neighbour hood into one big retirment village golf courses and all, they seem to grasp the reality that one day the housing boom will end and then we will stuck with very little work and a lot of people competing for hospital beds because guess what retirees are not always the healtiest of people and they are coming to the end of their lives!

Definately not productive unless you call the increased traffic and line ups to be a good thing, do you really think it wise to worship the bottom line now and to hell with the long term effects of bringing so many retired and elderly people into a Province, folks who have not been contributing to our health plan?

The rich ones won't care because they will go to the States or Alberta and get things fixed but the working class buying claptrap condos will definately be looking for the same healthcare buck as most British Columbians.

They say healthcare is an insurance plan well I have been paying into it for most of my working life and when I retire I doubt there will be much left for me or my family this is an insurance plan I am forced to pay into and like auto insurance with questionable bang for my buck! I do not support the privatisation but something has to be done about non residents being eligible because they buy real estate and retire here!

if anyone takes a really good hard look at the 3p deal on the arena in Victoria they will be convinced like many that it was a pretty shady deal, in fact there it is my opinion should be a investigation, follow the money! And while they are at it investigators should look into all the deals made by this developer with local politicians.

Genetic defect...how else can you explain it? While the masses fall asleep in front of the TV watching Fox news, the "evil" forces are using every bit of loophole, wording, double speak and advantage they can find to hoard their wealth. What a sad, pathetic commentary about how society has turned out. Their hands are in your wallet removing the cash and you just sit there quoting Fox or CanWest propaganda. Exploitation is all it is. Slowly poisioning the population is now an accepted path for us lemmings to follow. It says so on TV. The more I read about you, the more I hear you speak and try and rationalize the raping of this planet the more I loose faith in any hope for sustainability. A word which a few of you need to research. Sustainable and development do not go together anymore. Ray Anderson, Interface: "No major corporation is sustainable, period. The first industrial revolution hasn't worked, we need a second industrial revolution to try and get it right." Those were just his words on industry in general. Add in all this selfish greed and hoarding of nuts in this dog eat dog society and that to me spells D-o-o-m.

Cluboframe- nicely said. I find a good time to think about the word sustaiability is in a traffic jam.

Public Private Partnership's are merely a way for governments to hide a true cost of a project.

If a project is worthwhile then the private sector can build it and make a profit. If a project is not worthwhile, then the government does a PPP and spreads the costs, over a long period of time. The taxpayer pays more!

RAV is a perfect example.

ursus,

"if anyone takes a really good hard look at the 3p deal on the arena in Victoria..."

I'm reminded of reported shenanigans during construction of the Montreal Olympics facilities - with empty cement trucks going onto the site etc.

To the point of tedium, I return to the words of a wise and cynical city councillor: "There's no planning, just deals."

and a chosen few make a lot of money, one has to wonder what would make a slippery little man like alan lowe put his political career on the line? He is a perfect specimen of everything I despise in politicans, the guy would make a perfect liberal, b.c. or federal!

How about the so called RAV 3P. The so called benefit of a 3P is that the private sector assumes risk.

SNC/Lavalin is using public sector pension plans to finance RAV (I guess no bank would lend them the money on such a dubious project), which, in short, absolves SNC/Lavalin of any financial risk. If the project goes over budget, SNC/Lavalin can walk away scott free, leaving the public sector pension plans at risk. No fear, they are insured, so the taxpayer has to cough up the dough. Where the **** does SNC/Lavalin assume any risk; if not, then it is not a PPP, just a ponsie scheme.

Oh yes, the Liberals are masters of that!

Ursus; P3's are not evil in fact the example of our Save-On Foods Memorial Arena is an example . I have lived here for 28 years listening to goofy Victora councils inability to actually get this project off the ground.
I am happy to see that A P3 actually resulted in a physical structure appearing. It's amazing.

What will be amazing is the astronomical "cost plus" price of completion when all is said and done. Wait'll you see what the Olympdick crapola costs!

My goodness! Why is the `left` always so gloom and doom. Looks like a great day here today. No body shooting at us from roof-tops, etc.

If everything is ALWAYS so bad to you people how do you possibly get through the day?

tommymore; who cares, we are not paying for it.

It is the poublic who pays for everything, regardless whether it comes out of the pocket of government, or some corporation.

Is this simple fact so difficult to understand ?

The purpose of economic theories and ideologies is to cover up the facts and make certain sectors pay the full costs, while transferring benefits to a selected few. Profits are also a form of taxation. Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Flat; you are right, the users will pay.

Maxwell;

Do you like living in a place where people in power are bribed?

I don't know who you're addressing, Jamez, but bribing, blackmail, violence, persuasion are part of the benefit distribution process. Always have been. This why we have lobbyists, like Stephen Harper, was, is and will again be.

Look at Parties whose former politicians are getting the corporate directorships and avoid them like poisons, because although they may not be bribed today, they expect benefits tomorrow. This is the reason and story of all PPPs and privatization schemes. The Mulroney gang are the best examples rewarded for the FTA and NAFTA, the biggest corporate subsidies in history.

By the way, PPP means "Plundering the Public Purse" as all PPPs cost way above what the public is supposed to pay for their services. Thousands of examples and precedents around the world.

Ron, it it not only the "users" who pay, but everybody to the last baby. E.g. Expo 86 was billed as a huge success for BC financially and politically. But it cost me in today's monies $15,000, although I wasn't near the place. The whole of BC, paid through the nose in loss of revenues. Hundreds of hotels, motels, restaurants etc. suffered and many went bankrupt, because the benefits remained in Vancouver, draining the rest of the province dry. The real costs of the Olympics will be covered up and while we, here in the Interior won't suffer as much as we did from Expo, we won't gain anything either, except in the wild imaginations of village politicians .

Costs can not be cut, only transferred ..... This is as simple physical and mathematical law covered up with screwball theories.
Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Yes, the costs are transfered to the users who buy tickets to the events.

Sorry Maxwell, I sometimes forget not everyone is enlightened yet. Please proceed with your vision.

Gee for a minute I thought you were talking about our city council in Kamloops which assistated a local group a year ago to push through a referenda for some $40 million in local taxes to pay for new sports facilities.

It passed narrowly with a one percent margin even though the city provided thousands in tax dollars and behind the scenes assistance to the proponents to push the issue while opponents were left in the dark.

So far much of the work has been tendered and as usual in these tax give-aways contractors' bids have far exceeded the low-ball estimates we voting rubes were presented with before the vote.

Parks are being closed, services slashed and even the targeted projects are being cut back, but to date not one red face from the nine members of council who approved this lemon.

But then, of recent it's been hard to see council faces as they are in the travel season with contingents off to Japan, Indonesia and points beyound as well as domestically in the pursuit of future air miles.

Anyway, I don't expect this practiced to stop until the current group of dedicated expense claims filers are ousted in this fall's municipal elections.

the saveon foods arena is a perfect example of what can and will go wrong with a p3, lowe has screwed the taxpayers of Victoria and deserves to be kicked out and then we will see who he goes to work for no doubt in my mind it will be a six figure job with one of the grateful developers!

what part of the saveon p3 was so wonderful, it was not on time under budget or very well constructed, the contractor did not invite open bids and brought workers in from another country rather than hire highly skilled locals who were not working and could have built it on time under budget and properly!

Heard lots of nasty stories about your arena. How about the story that union guys cut the guy lines on the rebar towers then it turns out that they used nylon which broke during a wind storm. Or the guy who says he was attacked by a union guy then it turns out that he was screwing with the guys wife, most men would get a little ticked off. They were friends at one time or so the story goes!

Local companies that have built most of the city were not invited to bid, this was tax payers money and locals are excluded, you like that ronny well I don't and seriously doubt you have been living here for 28 days let alone that many years!

The problem with P3 projects is the supporters can never say how money is saved. Governments can borrow money cheaper than anyone.

In Alberta Ralph Klein has been trying to get a P3 hospital built but so far he hasn't been able to do it cheaper than if the government built it. This of course infuriates him because in Alberta he is all-powerful and is not used to people pointing out his ideas don't work.

Was talking to a fellow yesterday who adamantly declared that all politicians are %$^$##@ thieves... and that was the sunny part of his soliloquy. He's from Vernon and you probably know that the local hizzoner recently slunk out of the mayor's chair after some fanciful expense accounts came to light. I don't believe my friend is right but I couldn't think of any pithy comment to make him hold still long enough to actually examine his assertion. I tossed Chuck Cadman at him but got only a pitying glance.

The thing is, he's only about half wrong. Take Larry Campbell... please. I was a big fan of good ol' Larry. I got sucked in by the s.o.b. the same as most of my neighbours. I'm not saying Larry lined his pockets with developer dollars but his backroom glad-handing paid off richly and quickly enough that Vancouver is going to have a pretty dismal choice for the big chair come November. He offerd a vision most of us were hungry to embrace but it was all bombast and bullshit; truth is, he's a quitter. This is the most benign form of payoff I could think of (unless you count 20 or more years of Senate salary and perks) but it's no less galling than a more blatant display of bribe-taking.

We need to reform the way we bring people to public office. The first thing is to stop equating elected office with corporate sloganeering like "attracting talent" or other such talk that defines the discussion in purely commercial terms. The vitality, indeed, the survival of communities demands a different paradigm than "shareholder value" to judge the merits of continuing old initiatives or commencing new.

..Wall, do you know if Larry Campbell gets dividents from Major Davinci? Has he being using public office to create plot lines?

Probably not
Gawd, what a concept.

CHRISTY CLARK RUNNING FOR MAYOR

God help us.

I thought Christy Clark was going to devote herself to her family and raising her daughter!

Hey speaking of "bribes", does anyone know how much of the provincial government advertising (How great BC is in terms of visting and investing, etc)before the election was on BC television channels? In other words if the ads were to attrcat out of province visitors, investors etc. how would advertising on "local" television channels reach the supposed target audience?

Or was this a "discrete" way to sell the provincial liberal platform/ideology to the voters of BC?

Any ideas or thoughts?

what is really sad is that clark would probably get elected, so much for an intelligent and informed electorate!

Freebear, I agree with you all the way. They were an utter waste of money and had targetted the wrong audience. If you want to spend money, put it on a New York or Toronto listing to attract investors, not tell me that BC is a great place to work. I know that already.

As for Clark, I think your more likely to hear her and Mark's federal ambitions.

In a million years, Clark could not get elected as mayor. There are several reasons for that, not the least the clumsy run-it-up-the-flagpole announcement of her possible interest just days before the nomination deadline. Also, there is the parachute problem, and the fact that there will be two or three very recognizable names wit lengthy municipal and/or provincial experience already there. Why don't these failed/retired MLAs with federal aspirations just do the honest thing and announce their intentions?
Or just be honest and stay home with Hamish.

commentor: cookie cutterposted: 14 Minutes Ago
In a million years, Clark could not get elected as mayor. There are several reasons for that, not the least the clumsy run-it-up-the-flagpole announcement of her possible interest just days before the nomination deadline. Also, there is the parachute problem, and the fact that there will be two or three very recognizable names wit lengthy municipal and/or provincial experience already there. Why don't these failed/retired MLAs with federal aspirations just do the honest thing and announce their intentions?
Or just be honest and stay home with Hamish.

Why don't we cut all the work and just make Christy Clark a senator NOW!

I've always been amused how the term 'special interests' can be used in a derogatory manner by any sector. Like to make it look bad for unions to donate because only one party stands for them, when 'business' has several parties but billions to donate. But limiting donations can hurt the interest you're trying to promote.
I too believe STV can alleviate the problem better than a tangled mess of regulations. Speaking as a techie, it's time to fix the system instead of the software.

BTW, what's wrong with Christy Clark? I always admired her as more of a Liberal than the rest of that 'old boys network'. Fill me in...

herbie: I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about "special interests", and it's a term that should be thrown right back in the faces of the Liberals and others with regard to business connections and huge cash infusions from corporations in return for balatant favours.
As far as "what's wrong with Christy Clark"? Well, she might have seemed more "liberal" than Gordo, but comparisons should stop right there. There is nothing "liberal" about the Liberals. And Clark showed nothing during her tenure but controversy as Ed Minister and tantrums when demoted. I'm sure she doesn't beat her kid, but so what? She doesn't live in Vancouver, and her real reason for quitting politics--hmmm, could it have anything to do with her close relationships to a few people connected to the police raids on the legislature?--may be far removed from her publicly staed one of wanting to spend more time with her child. Whats the matter, Christy? The kid's old enough to talk and you don't like what he's saying? If you wanted to spend more time with him. why are you so anxious to jump back into a political volcano?
Anyhow, another word that is gaining favour with right-leaning municipal politicos, especially the rightist thug Jim Green and his unthinking lackeys and three dozen would-be bandwagon jumpers, is "ideologue" or "ideology". It always seems to find its way into local mainstream rags when someone is asked to comment on the supposed "rift" within COPE. Never mind that there is no "rift"--just because Larry Campbell and his bootlicker Green had an unresolvable personality conflict from Day One with Tim Louis and his Che Guevara T-shirt--since when is it a character flaw to have principles, ones that are believed in strongly enough, especially issues of simple human justice, to drive political action outside the sphere of greed, featherbedding, and fear?
Really, Green deserves a total wipeout at the polls. I used to admire the man, but his self-centred, non-democratic attempted destruction of one of the most unique and oldest progressive municipal parties in Canada deserves nothing but a complete obliteration in the public record. Harsh? Yes, but the guy is a total sell-out, and sell-outs all eventually get their just rewards. Let's just serve him his with an extra scoop of ice cream and get it out of the way sooner than later. Then we can get on with the job of running this city outside of the shadows of developers. casino interests, and Olympics boosters who hang around with people who fart through silk.
Sorry for the length of this post. One thing led to another. Good night.

Jim Green? Rightist?

That's the funniest thing I've read all day =^)

Jim Green may be many things, but this is the first time I've heard him be described as, let alone slagged for, being "rightist".

Moderate Man: It might be the first time, but it won't be the last, especially come election time. Obviously, I was going for impact there by calling Green "rightist", but all you have to do is look at his voting record the past council term, his disdain for anyone who shows what he calls "ideological" (read leftist) tendencies, and the damage he's done to COPE, all because of an agenda of self-advancement. He's more NPA than the NPA. Put it all together and it spells "rightist".

Too Funny!!

hey ronny irwin you still haven't answered my question what part of the 3P save on foods arena was so wonderful. You know we used to name arena's etc the memorial... to honor hero's now we honor corporations? For a price, and the more people they have screwed over the more we like them? Shows where our values are doesn't it.

Ron Erwin is an old goalie. He played in the era when masks had not yet been invented.

are you suggesting he has been hit in the head to many times?

So much for Christy Clark's family values, as she appears to be putting in her papers to run!