You don't have a chance Mr. Burgess, unless you get a sex-change, live in Quebec for the next 15 years, and change the colour of your skin. What a bloody joke this gov't is. All of their policy is driven by 'political correctness', or cowtowing to Quebec. No wonder we're a laughing stock and are quickly becoming even more insignificant on the international stage. These fools are shameless.

From what I can see you can forget about being GG unless you're an immigrant woman with a background in journalism (although why that is escapes me). It seems to help if you're also an Easterner, preferably from La Belle Province. I say: Enough already! While Adrienne Clarkson was effective in many ways we do not need a black(or any other colour) version of her. Paul Martin had a chance to really make history by appointing a First Nations or Inuit person, or even a Westerner, but of course the federal concern is, as always, for the province that is perpetually threatening to separate. Too bad for you Steve!

I find the racism of some commentators repugnant. In particular, it makes me ashamed to be a Western Canadian, a British Columbian.

I am very deeply disappointed that Rafe Mair has already given them voice in his retrograde comments on Jean's appointment. Mair has been a very effective voice on environmental issues, especially fisheries, and it's sad to see him succumbing to this kind of material.

Why is it the people in BC simply cannot learn to use the proverbial bathroom mirror, and ask themselves, as would any mature, responsible adult, how their rant of the moment would look to a neutral observer?

Right on, Budd Campbell, racists and male chauvinists too. These little reminders about what Conservative Party really stands for are good to keep upfront where everyone can see them.

Keep squealing like a pig, boys.

Speaking for myself only: my objections to this appointment have nothing to do with race and everything to do with special interests. I seriously doubt that Michaelle Jean has much interest in what goes on beyound the borders of her own province-to the east or west. Maybe time will prove me wrong; I certainly hope so.
I haven't heard any of Rafe Mair's comments on this appointment but he, like any one else, has a right to an opinion as long as it's an informed opinion, which I'm sure it was.
As for Bud Campbell being so ashamed to be from BC-maybe he should let go of the shame and move to Quebec!

YeeHaw, now there's some good ol' timey rascism, sexism, and ethnocentrism (the knocks against quebec) all roled up into one.

I'll leave nemisis alone, but chita, c'mon, "a black version" of clarkson. You ever stop to think that Jean is her own person. She smart, intelligent, well spoken, and doesn't pander to the lowest common demoninator (that'd be old nemisis there).

Did I miss something? Is she not a woman from an ethnic minority and a journalist like Clarkson? Is she not married to a left-leaning intellectual like Clarkson? Are we so PC that we're not even allowed to mention skin colour anymore?
I'm sure Jean has many great qualities but I'm detecting a pattern in these GG appointments that panders to eastern interests at the expense of the rest of the country.
Mbraun accusing me of racism and sexism is pretty funny since I happen to be a First Nations woman. My choice for GG would have been someone-man or woman- from the north or the west,preferably a First Nations or Inuit person, but that will never happen because we're relegated to third class status in our own country. Rant on,y'all.

My sincere apologies chita, my accusations were directed toward nemisis who generally makes ignorant posts and seems to be threatened by anyone not white, male, and anglo. Not to make excuses, but i was just trying to type a quick comment. My comment regarding your orignial comment had to do with what i perceived as you discrediting Jean because she doesn't fit your ideal choice.

Since when does being First Nations woman means you're excempt from racism or sexism, chita? I also happen to be a First Nations woman, and Jean's obvious talent, intellect, poise and suitability were the first things that grabbed me. She and her family overcame poverty and adversity to educate herself and succeed in a competitive career. She speaks five languages, and knows how to present ideas to the public. She has a family, and wants her daughter to receive a public education -- no elitism there. You folks have made it quite clear that these things are nothing next to the fact that she's not a white, English-speaking male.

But keep saying it loud and clear for everyone to notice. Here's the true face of conservativism.

Such typical lefy responses. Shallow and cliche. Anyone who criticizes blatant political correctness, even as transparent as this, is a racist and a sexist and blah blah blah blah blah. How boring can you get? No wonder nothing ever gets done in this underachieving country, dare I say nation?

People! Lighten up!

Before we get drawn into another PC debate on the merit/or lack there of of immigrant/minority representation in our structures of governance, take a moment to re-read Steve's comments for what they are: a light-hearted lampooning of the controversy surrounding Jean's appointment as GG. (It really is such a 'manufactured' issue promoted by the conservatives - joining that debate just reinforces their belief that they were correct to object to this appointment in the first place.)

Don't get so serious about Steve's self-promotion as a future candidate for the position. If you do not agree, play along and put forward your own suggestion for a worthy candidate for the next opening as GG.

Notwithstanding my support for Steve, when the controversy finally subsides, I think that Svend would make a great gay GG!

Hey, GG Svend is an idea! The only downside is that they might have to put more guards on the crown jewels, however, and count the silverware after every state dinner.

I don't allot about this lady but, I know a few things

1) She's from Quebec where the Liberals are low in the polls.
2) She from Haiti, their are large Haitian voting blocks in Montreal
that are very concerned about Canada's role in the current occupation.
Basically the federal Liberals don't do anything that's not a political benefit.

What I find very telling is that Michaelle Jean in her first interview said that she would
have to moderate her views now. God she is sold out all ready, time to go to fancy
banquets and ride the Liberal campaign bus, I guess time will tell is she has a spine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and Shamu would make the ideal Orcan GG.

It doesn't take much effort to learn something about Michaelle Jean. Even a half-assed google will turn up enough to impress all but the most retarded mouthbreathers:

She speaks French, English, Spanish, Italian and Haitian Creole fluently.

She studied at the University of Montreal and universities in Florence, Milan and Perugia.

She was a correspondent for Le Point, and host of Le Monde Ce Soir, L'Edition Quebecoise, Horizons Francophones, le Journal RDI and RDI Ã* L'Ecoute.

Host of the Passionate Eye and Rough Cuts on CBC.

Winner of the Amnesty International Journalism Award, the Anik Prize and the Galaxi Award for best information program host.

Family fled Haiti under the regime of dictator Papa Doc Duvalier. Jean had to endure racial taunts while growing up in Montreal. Since she overcame those adversities, it presages well for the condition of her spine. I suspect most of her predecessors would have had a hard time matching those qualifications.

Ms. Jean is highly skilled, but the position of governor-general is ceremonial or should I say "unnecessary" and doesn't require any ability. Someone with Ms. Jean's skills might be more appropriate for the House of Commons, as an MP than as GG. It is ironic that the GG, who requires no skills for a meaningless position in government is highly skilled, yet MPs who require skills to perform their daily duties are not required by testing or any other measure to prove their intellectual ability, but are only required to have Canadian-citizenship.

I have no issues with the melanin-content in her skin.

That is an interesting irony.

I am disappointed that the appointment did not go to a First Nations person or Innu.
But perhaps thirty years ago, or less, it would have been a fantasy to even suggest it.
There are any number of excellent candidates, some from Quebec, who could show the face of our third party in Confederation to the world.
But I think the Prime Minister's office is a better aspiration.

I agree with Stuart that the Fed Liberals (well, any political party really) has alterior motives for whatever appointment they make.

I wish Ms. Jean would have taken on Paul Martin for his job. Her life experience qualifies her to actually know what the values are that Canadians actually value. The cunning Paul Martin would choose her because he needs some way of making it look like he supports Haitians rather than we have gone into Haiti with the USA and REdestroyed their lives. The cunning Paul Martin would choose Ms. Jean because she has the charm, beauty, grace and intellect that the usglier faces of Canada (i.e. Paul Martin, Anne McLellan, Bill Graham, Irwin Cotler, Andy Mitchell, Rick Hillier, Frank McKenna, Stephen Harper, Peter McKay, get the idea?) can all hide behind. He must feel like he's solved something with this appointment, put something to rest, doesn't have to think about it anymore. There, there, Canada, there, there.

The GG is a symbolic, antiquidated post, which serves very little purpose except to make interesting photo-ops and to make monarchists happy. Clarkson wasted enough of our money with her feel good scenarios, so the real question isn't where our new GG is from, what ethnicity she is, or how many languages she speaks, its what king of lifestyle is she going to live, and how ,uch waste is she going to leave.

Regardless, as soon as Q Liz bites the dust, we'll be getting rid of the position anyways.

Five languages, Te Aro? I love the way everyone skips over that minor point (nevermind all her other achievements). Speaking five languages puts her miles ahead of most of us. As far as being a "ceremonial" or "unnecessary" post that doesn't require any skill- haha, I had to laugh at that one. You could say the same for thousands of positions in this or any nation on earth- from managers who sit around on their asses doing nothing to leaders of countries who are as close to brain dead as it gets (does Bush even speak ONE language fluently?)...

Another G-G? Well, I dunno. I guess I'm just too young to care.

No one said she is not highly skilled, I feel she is well qualified in fact to qualified to be the GG lap dog. She should run in the next election and not taken on some ceremonial post. Paul M is all about politics, he has a figure head from Quebec that will quell the dissent in the Haitian community and
he now has senator Larry who is popular in the west. I guess time will tell as to how effective the new GG is, I wonder is she musters courage in any one of her 5 languages.

A special message for chita:

I think you should move to Quebec, at least for a few months. You might find the people there are less threatening and less foreign than you think. Unfortunately, you would probably also discover that they are more sophisticated than ****-offs like you, ... so you would still come back hating them anyway!

Hey Budd, riddlin will help

I can understand that some people think there could have been a better candidate (First Nations, etc.) but I am absolutely shocked by some of the comments on here. Do people in BC really come off as this redneck to the rest of Canada or the world? I sincerely hope not.

And whats with the Quebec bashing? According to almost everything I've read, the GG spot attempts to rotate between regions and Quebec was long since due. Not to mention Michaelle Jean is qualified, whether you like her or her appointment or not. Yet some people on her are slanting it as if its some kind of Quebec affirmative action appointment to an unworthy candidate.

To be brutally honest, I don't give much of a flying ..... who the Governor General is. And I'm pretty sure most of the other people who are getting so hot and bothered on here (the usual suspects) didn't care either until it was brought up. Just another thing to bitcch and complain about.

As for comments revealing that the nomination might have a political strategy behind it, I can only give a whole-hearted "duh" of agreement!

About the selling about bit? I'm not sure you could take the position of GG and be a person with a real political agenda, to the right or left. You're Canada's Vanna White.

AAAAAAAAAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Are you people really that ignorant!? Really?

Here's a list of Governors General (and related precursor positions) from 1760 to present. There are about 52 names in the list. THREE OF THEM are women, TWO OF THEM are women who are not white. God forbid we should have two GG in a row who aren't white men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_General_of_Canada

AND

"It should be noted that by the office's established tradition of alternating anglophones and francophones, Martin was almost certain to choose a francophone to succeed Clarkson. Until Jean's appointment, Jeanne Sauvé, who served from 1984 to 1990, was the last Québécois governor general."

If she was from the moon I'd think she was a great choice. If I was a guy I'd fall in love with her...she has grace, intelligence, a natural beauty and the kindest eyes. And she has great gutsy credentials...my guess is she will use this post to bring attention to some crucial issues. Look at the kind of topics she was not afraid to take on ...she didn't just talk about women's shelters she worked in them... and for many years:

"She has also dealt with challenging themes such as the Roman Catholic Church in a four-day debate entitled "Le Pape en France, pedophilia in L'enfance volée" and Chinese politics in "La rétrocession de Hong Kong Ã* la Chine." Among her many awards: the Amnesty International Journalism Award in 1995 for a 15-part series on women; the 1994 Anik Prize for information reporting and the 2000 Galaxi Award for best information program host.

Jean has also worked with renowned filmmaker Jean-Daniel Lafond to produce three independent documentaries: L'heure de Cuba (1999), about the 40th anniversary of the Cuban revolution, Tropique Nord (1994) about being black in Quebec and the Hot Docs award-winning Haiti dans tous nos rêves (1995)."

Ti; you refer to the Consevative Party as being racist based on the writings of a few of the writers is stupid. What comments are you referring to anyway ?
Note that Steven Harper has endorsed the new GGC has been published and is only a secret to those that want to believe otherwise.
By merely mentioning the words black or white does not constitute racism.
The new GGC is fine, but Don Cherry would have been better.

Don Cherry would have been good to win voters in Alberta, Ron Erwin would be good to secure the inbreeding
vote.

Jeez, who cares? The G-G position really doesn't matter a whit to anything or anyone (except to you people who seem to only like the sound of your own voices!)

Let's just drop the whole thing, make Terry Fox a G-G posthumously, and get the Supreme Court to rubber-stamp all of Parliaments' decisions, as it seems to be the case now anyways.

As for Don Cherry - do we REALLY want yet ANOTHER easterner in Rideau Hall?

Imagine, arguing over a do-nothin' post in Ottawa that's generally given to someone who doesn't matter...hahahahahaha! Suckers.

Ah, but it's obvious from all this controversy and that generated in the media, that the post of Governor General does matter and has shown itself to be important to Canadians. Clarkson's finesse and knowledge brought unprecedented prestige to the role. She became what the role required, a suitable emissary for Canadians to the world, smart, strong, supportive, inspirational and diplomatic. Most of our past G-Gs have been unmemorable. Clarkson was memorable. Jean will also be memorable.

Mind, I love the suggestion that Jean would be suitable as a Prime Minister. She certainly would be an excellent choice for such a role. Since Benazir Bhutto, there hasn't been such a feminine woman in a position of power and it would be good for the world to re-experience that.

The more I read about her the more I like her. Constitutional monarchy is not such a bad thing, expecially compared to some of the alternatives. Lord knows, there are people on this planet who have real grievances — we just have petty nitpicking. And sheesh, how about giving Quebeckers a rest from the kneejerkism?

Could Stephen Harper do anything but endorse her? The media would destroy him on TV and in newsprint if he ever voiced an opinion like Nemesis or Chita. The grassroots of the party is another thing however. I'm sure there are many Albertans and people in the Fraser Valley that are seething that a lefty, minority, Quebecer was selected for this ceremonial, public relations-like post. I have to wonder which high ranking Conservative Party member will be the first to crack and say something stupid.

Martin has been blabbing about bringing the West back into confederation since before he was acclaimed, and this, along with the recent Senate appointments, was his chance to prove that he meant what he said. Instead he chooses, once again, to be opportunistic and please the leftist intelligentsia class in Eastern Canada. Watching her-highness Adrienne "I'm Adrienne Clarkson and you're not" and her pretentious husband for so many years was painful enough, now we must stomach a set of clones for five more years. These criticisms have nothing to do with racism, sexism etc., they are simply a commentary on western alienation and eastern arrogance. This country is as far from being a nation as you could ever find anywhere.

nemesis posted:

""... These criticisms have nothing to do with racism, sexism etc., they are simply a commentary on western alienation and eastern arrogance."

Wrong. They are a clear revelation that hard-core racism and sexism is highly correlated with western separatism.

I agree wiyh Nemesis about, the west is left out of Canada. This is now finally reached the stage that 35% of Western Canadians think we should talk about separation. Separating into a Conservative state is all I want.Why was Rick Hanson not considered for GGC ? Is he being disciminated against because he is disabled ? Or maybe he can't speak french.
God I am sick of the way our country is run by a Liberal elite based in Ontario. They are not going to give up power easily, but we will prevail.

Budd; You're so far off it's not even funny. But your cliche response is nice and easy, and absolves you of all responsibility to think any deeper than all the other lefties. Laugh out very loud.

I have nothing against this woman and am sure that she will do an excellent job. But should the post exist?

I believe Canada should sever its formal ties with the U.K.. It is something that we can ill-afford and its cessation wopuld reduce opportunities for patronage - of which too many now exist.

That doesn't mean that our relationship need suffer.

I don't care where good leaders like Michaelle Jean are from. I care very much that racist, sexist, fundamentalists who talk-act-look-&-smell essentially like fascists don't get into power. Of course, I think they should have all the freedom in the world to express creepy views to constantly remind people of why we don't want them in power.

Te; I don't know anyone who wants racist, sexist leaders in power. But that is what we got now. Racist against whites and sexist against men and fascists like those in the PMO office who run this country.

Picking someone for their ethnic background, skin colour is still racism, just another kind. By the way Racism is not the sole purvey of white males. Some of the most racist and sexist people I have met are Punjabi, Japanese, Chinese and from Somalia.

Quebec and the Francophone community can also be considered racist, in fact the PQ blamed the “ethnic vote” for a lot of their problems. I guess the immigrants don’t see any economic benefit to speaking French.

Being a Civil Servant, I can see the frustration of people. I know that I have a glass ceiling above me. Because I don’t speak French, I do not have a university degree, I am a white male and am not political correct (not a good butt kisser). Appointments based on anything other merit, end up hurting the ethnic/sex based group in the long run. If she had the same qualifications but came from Regina, was a Muslim Croatian, who survived the horrors there and hadn’t work for the CBC, she would not have the job.

In this case the PM’s ulterior motives dilute the worth of her other qualities. Speaking 5 languages will be an asset for this mainly ceremonial position, basically a high paid Wal-mart greeter for visiting Heads of States.

Personally I think the article was quite funny and poked fun at the PM’s oblivious pandering to gaining votes.

Fii

Bush actually speaks 2 languages fluently, English (Texas style) and Spanish (I doubt Castilians style) Likely a Mexicans Spanish

What really disappointed about this office or actually the Lieutenant Governor Generals office was when the BC NDP was defeated and did not have the perquisite number of seats for official opposition status. The Lieutenant Governor General should have stepped in and appointed them as the official opposition for the sake of good governance. If they don’t have the authority, then they should.

'I don't care where good leaders like Michaelle Jean are from...'. Good leaders????
Give me a break! What qualifies this woman as a good leader? Is this the way you lefties choose your leaders? A presenter of documentaries for the CBC. A visible minority who openly admits that she's been given many breaks and opportunities because she is a minority? I'm flabbergasted. What an outrageous statement. Me thinks you need, with all due respect, to connect with reality and the real people every once in a while Te.

ahhh... you could be right, nemesis. Remember that well-known "leader"... what was his name?.... choice of the political party that changes its name more often than a person in the witness protection program...

ummm...Doris, that's it... wetsuit, skidoo, walks with dinosaurs, didn't know which way the Niagara River flowed. As foreign affairs critic for the Conservative Party refused to send condolences to the people of Palestine on the death of President Arafat because he believed Arafat died of AIDS...

When you're right, you're right, nemesis... now there's a leader for you.

Perhaps part of it is to raise the prestige of the CBC. This would not be, of course, to reward the CBC for closing down its "National" message board prior to the last federal election. ("Technical difficulties" we were told) Bullsh*t!!

The Liberal government was being slaughtered on that board. It remains closed - to be replaced with an insipid "Letters" format as tightly-controlled as the local tabloid's Letters page.

Notice how those opposed to Michaelle Jean for sexist, racist reasons twist her experiences to become sexism and racism? For example, they claim that she has been given opportunities solely on the basis of her race, when she has clearly stated that these have been held as obstacles against her.

As we can see, they continue to be held against her by certain marginalized segments of the population.

says skeptikool.

And well said as well...sadly, seems it's the way of our corporate-influenced world these days.

Everything's "managed" and tidied up.

The result? Well...skeptikool's choice of "insipid" is a great word for it.

Ignorant, whiney, pathetic, navel gazing fools!

1990 to 1995

It's the same old story. If a non-white and/or female person achieves something the sexist/racist people assume it's because the person is non-white and/or female. If the white guy gets it they assume it's because he actually deserves it.

I am also a civil servant. Please don't perpetuate this no longer true myth about the civil service. French training is readily available to us, as I'm sure you're well aware, and many jobs are "bilingual non-imperative" meaning if you otherwise qualify you can learn French AFTER you get the job. If you have hit a glass ceiling it's because you don't deserve anything higher or in fact have not actually tried competing for any other jobs. Go to school if you want a university degree!

PS - I'm not a butt kisser either and I do just fine. No doubt "not a butt kisser" is probably more accurately described as "rude, says whatever pops into his head and doesn't think he needs to behave professionally in the workplace". There is a HUGE difference between kissing butt and simply behaving professionally.

hey ron erwin do you wear a pointy hat, who cares what the ladies skin color is or where she is from, Quebec or otherwise she has a good heart from what I have read and that to me is more important then the crap you bring up!

Btw the reason I asked if you are an american is this, you sound like a good old boy red neck and you admitted you are so your crediblity is shot, why should Canadians pay any attention to your rhetoric.

You keep spewing the crap about how the west is left out, oh poor little me I am a westerner so I am so hard done by and left out snivel snivel jeez you guys make me sick, I am a Canadian whose family goes back to the 1700s in the maritimes and the turn of the century in B.C. and so think I am qualified to make the poor me whine but you know what I think it is mostly bullshit. A bunch of red necks who want to split the country apart, you are no better then the seperatist in Quebec. Bunch of spoiled whiney little boys who should be wearing diapers, snivelling little snots!

Lynn
Being a good presenter does not necessarily make a good leader, she may well be, but leadership skills go far beyond being a communicator. I personally have no opinion on her at present.

Frankly I would have sent a letter of congratulation to the Palestinian people on the death of Arafat, he was a thief and opportunist who bled his people dry and allowed them to lose every opportunity to find some settlement. Not to mention the total disaster of the 2nd infidata. I hope that the new leadership can gain some control and make something out of the situation.

Notshort

I lived (shacked up) with a French Canadian (separatist) teacher for 3 years, I did take French but I could never get the style of the language, Spanish comes a bit easier. I suffered from learning disabilities which at the time of my education where not being addressed. So I am happy that I have achieved what I. To go beyond the Superintendent level, I will need to take and pass conversational French. 20 years of experience has taught me that I would not pass. I could and might one day take a university course, but will first have to upgrade my high school. I am the only one in my family that did not go to university.
Job posting in the government are now being bent towards people with French language and/or university, which is strange when they are asking for a PM1 job that won’t pay the student loan.
Years in the field have taught me that a bunch of letters behind your name does not mean you are the best for the job. I will stand by my statement that the System in the Federal government discriminates against people without university education, and my old boss admitted as such. Also my dad’s girlfriend used to run employment equity programs for women in the Federal Service and managers were being pressured to hire based on sex and skin colour, even if it meant bypassing the better candidate.

By the way my old boss was a Female ship captain and I enjoyed working for her, frankly I don’t give a dam about colour or sex. I just want to know that my leaders are the best for the job.

By butt kissing I mean not agree with the latest and greatest plans that seem to appear everyday and actually telling my bosses in Ottawa that ignoring the detail (which they hate) is going to bite them in the *** and cost the taxpayer, remember UCS? I was berated for calling it a multi-million dollar boondoggle to the deputy minister.

The best part of "democracy" that big and little C Conservatives always spout about is that its the #1 force that keeps their own loonies locked from power and from doing what they want.

Thank-god!

Too bad they won't realize that when a poll says 35% support some cause or another, another 65% thinks those 35% are racist, sexist nutters like some of the people that post in this thread.

apollyon; actually in Alberta it was 42% that are willing to talk about separation. In BC 31 %. So you are accusing all these people as being racist, sexist nutters. What does that make you ? Pure as the driven snow. You sound a bit extreme yourself. People like you will keep us Westerners in bondage to the eastern liberlal intelligensia if we listen. We won't listen to your version of discrimination and hatred. You will soon be marginalized as redundant. The next federal election is key to knowing just when that will be. Maybe there is room in Toronto for you.

If BC ever did think in a majority-way along the lines of yourself or nemesis I would definitely consider moving. As much as I enjoy a good spar from time to time, it requires that my opponent have an educated opinion and a prerequisite of respect and tolerance. Naturally the whole sexist and racist angles that keep coming up from a number of people on here (although they try and mask it as something else) prevents that.

But thank god, 70% of BC does not think like Ron Erwin. And in case you can't count, 42% is still shy of a democratic majority, thus my comment still stands, even in Alberta.

Colin

It's practically human nature to feel like the world is against you so I'm not surprised you take this attitude.

Yes, the federal government does have a university degree as a 'de-facto' basic requirement, but it is by no means an absolute requirement. Of course in your mind this probably means that a university graduate is hired over someone more qualified, but the reality is that there are PLENTY of candidates *with* university degrees who are more than qualified for most CR, PM, AS, etc. jobs; so why hire a high-school graduate when you can hire a university graduate? 35 years ago the same preference was given to high-school graduates over high-school dropouts. I don't think this should be too surprising to anyone.

Bullsh*t. If some idiot manager interprets employment equity programs in this manner I don't think you can generalize to the whole federal government.

Since when is 47K not enough salary to pay off a student loan?

Well, if you don't meet the qualifications of the job (conversational French), then why would you be expect to be promoted?

The professional way to express your opinion in this matter would have been to politely and professionally explain in full sentences what you had a problem with exactly. You "I don't kiss as*" types always think that simply saying something negative to someone important when they're in town, preferably in front of a lot of other people, is somehow a sign of free thinker who doesn't kiss butt. Yes, if your behaviour is unpredictable and you are known for non-constructive (ie - pointless and after the fact) criticism then you will probably not be viewed as a good candidate for further promotion.

apollyon; these are the numbers now. They are higher than in the past and lower than they will be in the future. I am awaiting liberation from the neo-libs running this country. There is hope.

hey erwin thought you pointy hatters only skulked around at night in large numbers?

ursus; I love you too.

Colin, whatever your assessment of Arafat as a leader, the issue is that Stockwell Day, while holding the position of foreign affairs critic, chose to link Arafat's death with AIDS and to do it with a sense of condemnation.

Whatever anyone thinks of the relevance of the G-G, to reduce Michaele Jean's accomplishments to one word "presenter" is quite extraordinary in its denial of her real achievements.

still skulking eh or huh for you, I know the americans would love to see the west leave Canada so they could grab our oil natural gas water and control the entire west coast to mention a few reasons. The biggest u.s. influence in Canada is in Calgary (or ottawa) and there are many there advocating for western seperation, to divide Canada and conquer in my opinion. What do they possibly think they could gain by becoming a seperate nation of four provinces or two?

Most of the right wing morons who are stirring the pot of western alienation are american wannabes, people should be careful what they ask for they might get it, but there will be a lot of casualties along that road!

Now I don't want to hammer to death the notion of having an educated argument but:

"neo-libs" from the world neoliberal / neoliberalism:

A political movement beginning in the 1960s that blends traditional liberal concerns for social justice with an emphasis on economic growth.

neo-liberal

neoliberal adj : having or showing belief in the need for economic growth in addition to traditional liberalistic values n : a liberal who subscribes to neoliberalism

Neoliberalism is thus the ideology espoused *most* strongly by the socially conservative ideologues, most notably by Ralph Klein, Gordon Campbell and Bob Ray.

So are you trying to save us from Ralph Ron Erwin? If so, you and I might have something to agree on.

Hey Ron, what makes you think that us BCers would want to go the same way as Alberta anyways? They want their firewall, and we want our moat. The good conservative state ends at the Rockies, us pot smoking, gay marriage loving yahoos want as much to do with the jesusland honkies, as we do with precarious pricks in the east.

Vive la Cascadia!

47,000 for a PM1?, when I looked it was $39,000

But having lived on DED 3 pay at 38,000 I know that there is no money for paying off debts.

When I talked to the DM there was only 3-4 people present and I yes was not completely “professional” Having come from a non-office environment, I do not do that as well as others. However my bluntness helps me with dealing with my Northerner clientele who are quite sick of Gov-speak.

My question is who sets the qualification, French speaking university graduates, sort stacks the decks against anyone else.

By the way, I am quite prepared to say something positive, but there hasn’t been a lot to say. Especially after they send our division on the 7th harassment course in order to make our department look good, receiving fancy little ethic books because the senior management can’t keep their fingers out of the cookie jar, and not to mention Adscam, Ryder travel, etc. I really am trying hard to thing of something done right by the senior levels of government lately, but none come quickly to mind. Well there was the fiber-optic infastructure thing, but I hear it was gutted recently.

And yes managers were pressured. Not so much today, but it certain was that way in the late 80’s and 90’s

Hiring a university graduate to do a CR or an AS job is fine if you don’t actually make it a requirement.

by the way I certain don't feel the whole world is against me, just the annoying bits

Hilarious! So not much has changed since the 1980's then. A small fraction of the population still wants to separate. The rest of the population thinks they're either a joke or an embarassment. The National Post reports it as REAL, BIG, SCARY News, and not the joke it always was. Poor old boys. They're really working, working, working it, trying to turn it into something like News, but it just won't cooperate.

Now, a real investigative journalist like Michaelle Jean, would know how to find a story, even in that threadbare old whine, which is probably why she never had to resort to shilling swill for the Conrad Black/Rupert Murdoch/Asper Bros. bin-liners. After the byproducts of their empires, I can understand why their stupified readers would confuse actual investigative journalists with mere presenters.

I doubt that the heads of the CBC encourage totally free investigative journalism either.

They to censor words, such as terrorist and such. Every news media has an agenda, some our more honest about it than others.

Notshort
I see the discrepancies between our figures. You are using the new contract and one of the higher increments.

I was using the old contract, PM1 $39-44,000

Anyone who pays off their debts at that wage while living in Vancouver has my respect. Although I doubt they will be paying off a mortgage at the same time.

nemesis posted: 1 Day Ago

"Budd; You're so far off it's not even funny."

There's nothing funny about the Archie Bunker attitudes of the Doug Christie-Western Separatist crowd. They are a very real disgrace and a serious embarassment to BC and to the West in general.

When Toronto glitterati types want to sneer at legitimate Western grievances, all they have to do is pull up some of this garbage and say, "See, this is the kind of nuts and kooks they've got out there." Viewed with any degree of perspective, it's an unfair response. After all, they're are millions of Bunkers in Ontari-ari-ari-o itself.

But when guys like nemesis and their fellow travellers go out of their way to make it a factual enough rejoinder they are really letting us all down. And if the rest of us remain silent when confronted with this kind of material, well, ... maybe we deserve to be sneered at.

"When Toronto glitterati types want to sneer at legitimate Western grievances, all they have to do is pull up some of this garbage and say, "See, this is the kind of nuts and kooks they've got out there." Glad to see your heroes are real people Budd. Looks like you'd fit right in back there. Maybe you could get a job as Jack Layton's publicist.

By the way, next in line for GG is Jack Layton's wife. She's got all the credentials for the federal Liberals.

When John Waters filmed Hairspray, it was supposed to be a farce. We were supposed to look at the tranvestite character of Divine in character as a southern KKK-style redneck and laugh at the sheer preposterousness of it, never imagining that someone like Jeff Gannon would actually materialize, never guessing that racists would believe themselves to be victims, and would honk out on public commentary boards about it.

Yes, indeed, there is a time when the power of discrimination, as opposed to bigotry, is a good one. Just read what we are keeping out of power.

Is someone seriously bitching about this income? Its almost 10G hirer than the Canadian average income. And I thought I saw earlier that this is without a university degree? Thats crazy. To be honest, I have a university degree and did well in it, and have 20K in student loan debt.. I would take that job and not look back for sure. As it is now, I'm paying off my debts and living in Vancouver at a wage that's almost 1/3 of that. So I have to call bullshit on all the whine and glass ceiling crap... if anything, lets turf the old guard in the bureacracy for the young & educated :)

My friend (and I) made $37,000 as a rescue specialist/diver, with 2 kids and a house in Abbotsford he had to work a second job on time off to stay afloat. Yes it is better than what you will make at a starbucks, but it becomes very tight with kids and a mortgage.

I wasn’t whining about wages, just about the qualifications

In fact I have no complaints about what I make.

However the Rescue Specialist pay is quite low for comparable work, but has risen as of late. Dive pay was $700 a year extra when I was doing it.

Well while I support everyone's right to make a decent wage, especially with the stagnation and decline of *real* wage over the last thirty years, I can't see myself agreeing with a lot of your complaints a la "discrimination" towards french speaking and university education.

If anything, government jobs right now are protecting thousands of underqualified workers (at least by todays standards). Now I'm not a gung-ho right-wing meritocracy buff and I'm glad that people who couldn't afford a university education or perhaps had other disadvantages in the educational field can get jobs. And I realize those good paying jobs are dwindling, especially for people who thought they could get by on high-school education, etc. But thats not a glass ceiling or a form of discrimination any more than being able to read is. As for French, we're a bilingual country and its a government job. Duh. If anything English Canada has been pretty blatant in their disregard for the second national language (ever see french on signs? Rarely).

I think our public education system does a very poor job of helping English Canadians learn French and would like to see a more immersion style system become mandatory during elementary school. I myself can't speak a word of French (teachers didn't care for it and told us so in many of my younger years). But I do understand thats my loss not a discrimination against me and its something that I could choose to remedy if I wished, often with the support of federal programs.

As for the point about managers admitting that employment equity is about hiring based on skin and sex.... of course it is. What kind of affirmative action program would work otherwise? Its meant to rectify NEGATIVE classifications based on race and sex, not rectify classification. Canada is about accepting diversity not eliminating it. The point of these progrmas is that certain people have been discriminated against in such a blatant way and often unconscious way that without a direct program that says you must hire xx number of employees of such-and-such background the problem would continue to exist. I'm sure some not-so-qualified people have gotten hired, but as you pointed out yourself, qualifications on paper (education, etc.) don't tell the whole story anyway. Not to mention the previous point that the bureacracy is designed to provide Canadians with a decent wage, (ie. 37000-44000) really regardless of their abilities.

So anyway. In sum, agree that wages aren't what they used to be. Disagree on almost everything else. Moral of the story: be happy with what you have because people like me are fighting to take it away from you :) Just kidding!

Apollyon

Actually in the Federal service, Francophone are overrepresented by population according to the figures I have seen. You could speak eight languages, but if one of them is not French, then you are not bilingual by definition. The feds have been slow at dealing with the other languages that exist in the country, to give DFO credit (gag,gasp,sputter) they have worked hard to develop information in Vietnamese in order to deal with incidents within in this community.

French Immersion is quite easy to find compared to when I went to school, my French/Music teacher was busy immersing herself in the bottle of whiskey she kept in the drawer.

I find that people are often hardwired for languages, either by early learning or just the way their brains work. Some people will always have problems with language but be perfectly competent in other areas. I am one those people and have tried to learn French, Spanish and now Malay without much success. So I do feel discriminated against.

I understand the principle of employment equity to help defeat unfair discrimination. But at this point in Canada I feel that the benefits are outweighed by the negatives. With the program in place no one in a group that benefits from such a program will be taken at face value and even those that won their position on merit alone will suffer from the assumption of favouring.

By the way 2 recent Federal competitions I know of screened out the people that had been working in the job, despite having good performance reviews. The Federal hiring system is messed up. If we hire a causal that works well, we won’t be able to hire them directly again after the 6 month period.

I don't doubt that there are problems with the federal hiring program that need fixing.

But many of the things you point out just don't justify your arguments. If you can speak 8 languages and none are English what are your chances of getting a job in Canada? Not very high, especially not in government. Is that discrimination? Sure, maybe. Anything can be discrimination if you want. Alcohol laws discriminate based on agism... Same as driving ages, etc.... discrimination abounds....

And while I can definitely relate to your experiences learning French its not discrimination that your had a (ONE) shitty teacher. I did as well. So do many... should be fixed for sure. I myself have difficulties learning languages... I've taken 4 years of university Spanish, travelled in Mexico and Central America a number of times and I still have trouble choking out words. If I can't get a job in the Spanish embassy because of that, its not discrimination. Ditto goes for me and all things mechanical. Sure I'd like to be able to fix my car, but me + tools = incompetent. Its not discrimination if a mechanic shop won't hire me.

Canada has declared itself a bilingual country in the languages of French & English (not Punjabi and Swahili). Maybe thats not right, maybe more languages should be official, maybe all of us should learn 8 or 10 languages and have signs that correspond to that... Thats not an issue I care to take a side on. But it is the law and its historically grounded. You complaining about French is the same as, say Chinese immigrants complaining about learning English.

And lastly about equal opportunity employment. I've never looked at a woman in a job and wondered (did she get that job because she's a woman?). Its just not something that I think about. Same goes for seeing people who are disabled or "of colour". And I don't know many people with enough ressentiment to think that either.

Like I said earlier, if I was in your place, I would be very content with that salary, despite my 20K invested in a university education. You are making more than 90% of the world's population, more than the Canadian average, and are living in a country / city-area generally voted in the top 5 best places to live.

Life is good :)

Leave the calls of discrimination to the other 90%.

Te; There must be a sexist, racist, bigot, redneck, KKK, facsist, wife beating, neo-con, Conservative, American lover hiding under every rock in your yard, isn't there ?
I resent your constant hatred driven postings. I can tell you that all Canadians raised in my generation and educated in Alberta in the 50's and 60's were taught to be extemely tolerant and view all as being equal under God. It's that simple. Sometimes this comes across, to the ignorant expecting superior treatment, as being racist. This is not true. Your view of the world comes across to me as being your own worst nightmare.

Ron; People like that surround themselves with like-minders only. It must be difficult to live in such a surreal world.

nemesis; do you call this surrounding myself with like-minders ? In fact there are very few like-minders that I can find in British Columbia, Canada. I am truly different and quite comfortable in my skin.

Ron, pretty sure nemesis was talking about other people, hence "people like that". As for you and Nemesis, if you were anymore likeminded I'd suggest you were the same person posting under two different IDs!

You both have that Alberta-styled neo-conservative lustre that always adds that reactionary spice to a conversation. Zesty!

I'm sure this GG will be just as good as any. That being said, I think that - left or right -it is apparant to many that it is high time to get rid of the institution. It's a disgusting throwback to pre-democratic colonialism; and it's gotta go.

You hear a lot of ignorant Quebec bashing. Much of the political 'problem' in Quebec comes from a completely legitimate resentment by Quebeckers towards a contitution they never signed. This colonial constitution is insulting to the people of Quebec as well as many other Canadians, myself included. It is one of the sources of many of the political problems in this country, be it the Albertan mischaracterization (and subversion) of federalism, or incoherent environmetal, education, and health policy.

The naming of a minority Quebecois to GG is important in light of the inherently distasteful and polictically destablizing nature of the office of the GG.

It all has to go.

And the story gets even better, as we can now add sovereignty supporter to the list of the new GG's ...er... attributes. I never thought I'd say this, but Paul Martin is starting to look even dumber than King Chretien. Should be an interesting election next spring.
Ron; I was talking about Te, the lefty of lefties.

As an aside, since when was the G-G a "leader"? What if anything that Clarkson did had to do with her intelligence or leadership ability? Further if you need more than two languages to be a good G-G why is barely one enough for most Canadian politicians -- being they are the folks whose votes make the difference?

No, Rn, the racist, sexist bunch I come across only seem to hang out on this website. And whatever you think your 50s-60s upbringing was supposed to do for you in terms of enlightenment, it obviously failed.

I heard that she also holds Dual French and Canadian Citizenship and that France may renounce her citizenship if she accepts the post, Martin would look foolish if she declines because of this.

Boy; this gets better by the minute. Now she's a separatist. She's looking better all the tome.

It's looking more and more like the Martin Libs rushed into this GG appointment without properly vetting she and he first. Friendly relationship with the sovereignty cause and questionable quotes are now in evidence.

Martin is now between a rock and a hard place.
-If he renegs on the appointment there will be embarrassment and howls from many quarters.

-If he stubbornly proceeds with the appointments without addressing issues raised,
he could end up with a couple of albatrosses around his neck likely to grow smellier with time!