Welcome Rafe!! I'm looking foward to reading more from you.

``The power to control information is a major lever in the control of society. Giving citizens a choice in ideas and information is as important as giving them a choice in politics. If a nation has narrowly controlled information it will soon have narrowly controlled politics.''
-Ben H. Bagdikian, The Media Monopoly

http://www.mega.nu/ampp/media_bias.html#centralization

Interesting read. However, what is much more concerning to me is when the bias of owner, publisher, editor, and supposed professional journalist turns his/her opinion into the news.

When I read an article from Rafe Mair I expect to get a certain viewpoint. I may agree or disagree with his observations, use of facts, and conclusions, but I cannot fault him for them. What I do find most revolting is when papers, like the Vancouver Sun, spin the news like a well-skilled politician. Their biased reporting of the news is just sick. Anyone who was disturbed by Bush's use of government money to make and distribute bogus news stories and to pay off supposedly respectable journalists to deliver them will know what I mean. Sadly, you have to read our daily newspaper's news with a question of how legit it is.

Hire and brand your product however you want. Just don't be dishonest about it!

ie test. test

Oh, Rafe: please talk about the meaning of the R.C.M.P. raids on the B.C. Legislature?

We've waited ... and waited ... and we still don't know if organized crime may be strolling the corridors of the B.C. Legislature or sitting in on B.C. Cabinet meetings ... or if the very workings of our elected government have been manipulated ...

So can't you boldly and bravely tell us (before the May 17 election) what all that means? I'm so tired of journalists who tell me (privately) that the topic is radioactive, or that they fear libel, or that "We'll just have to wait and see ..."

After 15 months of waiting, no journalist is even bold and brave enough to discuss the implications of the protective silence! Please Rafe, speak up.

Congrats to Raif and thanks for a great article.
Is there a way to profit from investigative journalism (aside from blackmail)?
Therin lies the problem. The newspapers seem to make plenty of money printing cheap trash and regurgitated propaganda. What motive is there to spend money and time to dig for truth? Sadly it is all about the money, and there appears to be no lucrative market for the facts - regardless how important they may be to our survival.

Does Rafe now want us to think of him as a journalist?

He's said on air and told me in no uncertain terms in an email response on more than one occasion that he was not a journalist. Once was on the occasion of me emailing him to castigate him for the role he played in elevating the hyperbole leading up to the last provincial election.

What's changed, Rafe?

Or are you still not a journalist, you'd just like to be thought of as one?

I have no preference either way personally.

It's just that by declining to be identified as a journalist in the past you were able to avoid responsibility or accountability for some of the outcomes of what you spoke or wrote.

If you'd like to be identified as a journalist now, does that mean you're willing to be accountable and responsible for what might come of what you say? You do have some influence with BC voters, Rafe, dare I even say a measure of power.

You have to choose, Rafe. It's already been made clear, to this respondent at least, that you won't let your readers or listeners place you in one slot or another.

So choose and let us know.

Final quick test. Apology.

Again, narrowing problem down.

Way to go Raife.
I, as someone who toils for CanWest, have to agree with you wholeheartedly.
Though you forget a few facts.
The paper I work for was once owned by Ken Thomson -- he may be a tightwad but there was a lot less editorial interference from the higher echelon mucky-mucks when it was a Thomson paper.
As soon as the Aspers bought the paper they started, sending out canned "editorials" we were supposed to run. I refused and was reprimanded for it.
Then I was demoted and we have a new managing editor who spends 95% of his time ensuring his butt is covered and not doing anything to upset the Aspers or others at CanWest.
It's sickening and I want out.

This province would be heaven for an investigative journalist, if such a creature could be found around here.

I mean, we got campaign finance scandals, allegations of fraud and misbehaviour everywhere from the premiers family to the halls of the legislature. We got police raids and dope dealing. We got money in huge amounts floating around without a word about where it came from or where it was headed. We got real working people betrayed and ruined for partisan political (read financial) gain. We got flat out bare faced through the teeth lying while public property goes south, sometimes literally. And every question we ask about all this goes pointedly unanswered.

Just listen to the cry from the heart of BC Mary above. If there was a real journalist within weeping distance we'd all know a lot more than we do about the goings on she mentions. This is crucial stuff.

Mr Mair, your story is perceptive about the reasons why we can't expect straight journalism. It would have been even better if you'd provided some.

I wish somebody would.

If you’re a left winger socialist journalist good luck getting a job in this town.
You either sell out or work on your own or support the independent media, Rafe you have
Done some good work as of late but you have a long way to go to make up for your sins
At KNEW. Sorry I think your desire to keep a good job or your political bias kept your mouth shut for a long time. You were pretty much on the Gordo election team running up to the last election, everyday you found a new way to crucify the NDP. You called Paul Ramsey a liar and said you would bet him 100 dollars if his budget was a surplus and not fudge etc. I hope you paid your debt as the budget was a surplus verified by the independent auditor general. I also hope you apologized to Glenn Clarke for all the nonsense about a porch reno which turned out to be nothing but served your purpose. The list goes on and on, well now your upset about fish farms etc, the salmon run has almost disappeared on the Fraser. And you are stuck with this arrogant corrupt government you helped elect. I even remember you taking a road trip to Kamloops to support the Liberals MLA, what unbiased reporting, disgusting. I hope you know you were a big part of the last election run up and hope one day to yourself you can say sorry.

Sorry at CKNW

Hey tazzjazz. Here's how to get out: Walk up to one of the exit doors, put your hand on the doorknob and turn it, then walk down to your car (or transit etc.) and go home.

Never having been a real fan of CKNW, being more a "country" CBC listener, I am not that familiar or enamoured of Rafe. Though I certainly have heard of him through third parties, of course.

Nonetheless, he does address an obvious fact here, regarding this issue of the subtle and not so subtle censorship that goes on within the corporate media. And nowhere has this phenomena been more apparent, especially in recent years, than in the major "urban" BC print media certainly. The Sun and Province for sure, with which I am more recently familiar, tend to read like carefully crafted Business Council cum Fraser Institute tracts very often. Certainly there is little mystery about the driving bias behind them.

But then, really, I think that in a class constructed society, the only real surprise is that some folks are surprised to discover than.For sure there was a period in the post second war through the early seventies; the great Prosperity Time when the system was flush with cash and prepared to make concession and adopt a "class conciliatory" tone, that there was a somewhat different, more "liberal" tone. Even at that though, there was never any real mystery, "Which side are THEY on?" It was just more skillfully presented, and ordinary folks sharing a little more in the good times, after the experience of the Great Depression and The Great War, were in a mood to "believe" and suspend what "disbelief" they might have secretly harboured.

All that's happened in the relatively recent times since the late '70s especially, is that the good times are just about all gone, the ruling class is not prepared to be so "liberal" and in fact finds the neo-conservative ideology more to its own mindset, in a time of stiffer intra-class system competition internationally. Hastened along and and emboldened, of course, by the home working class's loss of connection, over the heady days of the Prosperity Time, with its own earlier class experience and history, and the wuzzed out, co-opted condition of its class organizations.

They and their media can be bolder with their biases, and more blatant partisan interests, so they are. Who's there to say nay?

Like I say, there is no real mystery.

Which is what makes this Tyee site so refreshing and hope raising.

Rafe, I've been pleased by your doggedness in pursuing essential issues (the destruction of Pacific Salmon runs and constitutional change) and I'm tickled pinko by the decision to give you a regular forum here.

It's getting hard to find admittedly biased opinion these days. It's depressingly simple to find blatant shilling that attempts to masquerade as reporting but having someone who correctly vilifies deserving politicians as liars and/or pinheads and does so gleefully is just dandy, thank-you.

p.s. keep an eye on young smythe over there at brand "x". maybe you could do Yoda to his Luke. He's just shy of unbearably squeaky but on some nights the force moves him and he might need to be saved from the Dark Side.

These days, anyone with an internet hookup or wide-band radio can trawl through dozens of outlets, blogs and ezines, and sample any selection of fact and opinion they want. No one need ever open their minds to ponder an alternative point of view. I think that this recent phenomenon has rendered the very concepts of news, censorship or timidity of expression a disingenious and overly precious argument.

"...anyone with an internet hookup or wide-band radio can..." writes Aro Arahina.

Certainly a somewhat "disingenuous" observation in itself-, in the very least "unaware", of the access, market control, and other issues that complicate and effect the free flow of information and ideas across ALL society.

Though certainly, the old censorship and control systems that worked for so long ARE showing sighns of breaking down-, the source of much corporate media wailing about the lack of "control", disguised as "editing" and "quality control" concerns, which one hears everytime the word "blog" is mentioned for example, from their apologists. The Spectre immediately comes to mind, for some reason.

But then much about the old capitalism is showing signs of breaking down-, a return, in New Order Capitalism, of that old "digging one's own grave" phenomena, which has caused it so much trouble in the historical past.

Great to see Rafe here. Boy, did NW screw up by letting him go, at least without grooming a proper replacement. Bill Good Jr. is far too equivocal to fit Rafe's shoes.

As for the self-censorship, I wonder if the biggest part of the problem is audience. Tabloids willingly flirt with libel to purvey tittle-tattle about celebrities. People are conditioned to want this kind of news, and so there's money in them thar hills.

People haven't snapped up political dirt with quite the same avidity. But they are starting to -- look at Michael Moore's muckracking tomes. A smart tabloid publisher would try to exploit this market.

Hey folks, I have an actual call to action for you. The corporate media will not
Tolerate democracy in any form no matter the bickering. It will prop up right wing governments
That support classism and multi national interests , and it will try and bring down socialist reformist governments. Any government that makes the tax system more regressive to the middle and lower incomes and changes the laws in favour of the corporations, like lower worker rights, less protections, less environmental standards, less enforcement etc. These kind
Of right wing neo conservative governments are always supported by the mainstream media.
So what to do about it......
1) Support independent media, TheTyee, CFRO 102.7 Co-Op Radio etc
The mainstream media audience is falling apart, more and more are leaving and not coming
Back. Boycott advertisers of the mainstream, call and write letters to their advertisers , tell them I will not be buying you products while you support this station etc.

2) Write the CBSC Canadian Broadcast Standards council. You can email
Nicole Lafrance at

, this works folks and its easy. First write
Out a letter to Nicole about a mistruth or extreme bias you heard on a station like
CKNW . Nicole forwards your complaint to the station and they are forced to respond within
22 days. I received a 3 page letter signed by station management and their 2 lawyers.
If your not happy with their response you can ask the CBSC to make a ruling on the compliant
This my friends has a cost and hurts the stations bottom line, imagine them having to respond
To 1000's of letters everyday.

Just my 2 cents. Nothing will change until you act.

If it costs that much to respond, it's only a matter of time before these companies agitate to eliminate the rules. Instead of changing their behaviour, they will try to change ours. That's what power struggle is all about.

As for the statement "Nothing will change until you act" -- I think that's where the idea of galloping madly off in all directions originated. It's not that I have an aversion to ideas. I just need a clearer idea of what you are trying to create, Stuart, and then see if I can allign with that.

Thanks Stewart, good advice. For some time now I have been exercising your first point regularly. I’ve even noticed that the telemarketers peddling the Scum and the Province are quite coached on what to say whenever you bring up the obvious issues as to why you would not touch their product with a ten foot pole.

As the Tyee gathers steam I become more and more concerned that it may become a victim of big money with that powerful ability to silence. How committed is David Beers to the long term of the Tyee?

Look at the fellow who broke the Doug walls affair, Sean Holman. He has recently been scooped-up by the Sun after a good record of doing some fair independent investigative journalism with a very slim budget. Now, will we ever see a Doug Walls type of story from Mr. Holman ever again now that he is under the control of the Asspers? What a great way of silencing Mr. Holman before the next provincial election then turning around and abruptly dumping him if the BC liars get re-elected.

So sad………… Anyhow, Stewart has it summed up best and welcome Rafe, yes he’s good. However, his SoCred biased during the run up to the last provincial election was obvious. He’s since earned a few points from me by not caving in to the lords over at CKNW/Corus like Bill-my tax cut-Good has.

By the way Tyee…I love the new look. And keep up the good work!

Excellent article, Rafe. I'm most impressed by your taking on one of our "Greatest Canadians", Don Cherry. This guy is no journalist, he's a cheerleader for one of the most cynical and greedy corporate monopolies in Canada. Sports fans deserve better.

Odd to see Rafe embracing the Propaganda Model of Ed Herman and Noam Chomsky, considering he hitherto disparaged Chomsky.

"How committed is David Beers to the long term of the Tyee?"

Time makes all things clear. :-) Though he's been good to here, which is all one can ever really count on in the games of politics and the "journalism business", eh? :-)

Though unlike kotto, mayhaps a "brown" exagerator, I don't read too much of a Noam Chomsky, whom I much admire myself, in Rafe. But then, for some folks, anything that smacks of criticism of the system makes them immediattely disparaging and defensive.

I though Rafe was pretty tame here actually, certainly within the bounds of what the system tolerates without too much loss of sleep-, though "the order" is displaying some heightened sensitivity, even paranoia. :-) Which makes me feel good.

"Does Rafe now want us to think of him as a journalist?"

I fail to see the importance of whether Rafe calls himself a journalist or not. I think in general people rely too much on labels. No one is actually fully defined by one label - indeed even "slime" doesn't totally describe members of the current government, even if it does accurately capture one aspect of their nature. Rafe, like everyone, is a combination of his education and experience.

Overall I think that he is a welcome addition to the Tyee and along with BC Mary, I would love to see him address the Raid on the Legislature. I feel that that whole investigation is like a giant boot waiting to drop, and I'm sure Gordo and the Greed Party hope it doesn't drop before the election. Obviously Can-West doesn't think it is as important as Glen Clark's deck - but I still wonder why one aide was put on paid leave and the other fired, among other things.

I know one minister whose aide's office was searched has since left for the private sector, I just can't remember whose aide the other was. I remember it was a woman, is she one of those who is not going to run for re-election?

Bravo Tyee for the new look and more accountable comment board. I hope the Tyee can be a force in the upcoming election battle and counterbalance to some degree the main mass of mainstream propaganda, oops, I meant media in our province.

Here's where you can let the Aspers know what you think of some of their product:
http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news_survey/index.html

April Fools Day 2004 was one of the dates upon which B.C. Supreme Court Associate Justice Patrick Dohm let us think that he would unseal the Search Warrants he signed authorizing the R.C.M.P. raids on the Legislature. He didn't. But we scarcely noticed that, because Prime Minister Martin was campaigning for his own re-election that day. Remember? Mr Martin roared into Vancouver with his shock-and-awe press conference to tell us that he had personally appointed 3 people to take 3 federal ridings in Vancouver, which they did.

On April Fools Day 2005, that fun-loving Justice Dohm promises to hold another court hearing,to to bring the Prime Minister's former campaign workers to trial. And by golly, Mr Martin is heading to Vancouver, too. Hey. Deja vu all over again!

Now then, here's what we need to figure out. Suppose Justice Dohm gets down to business on April 1, 2005, and actually sets up a trial date for Basi, Virk, and Basi (after the B.C. election, of course). And suppose Prime Minister Martin wishes to distract the people of British Columbia again. He does, after all, owe Premier Campbell for the 15 peaceful, trouble-free months since the RCMP hauled 32 cartons of Cabinet documents out of the B.C. Ministries of Finance and Transportation. It could have been so different if that story of drugs, money-laundering, fraud and bribery had got out. The Prime Minister has probably noticed that it's Premier Campbell this year, who is up for re-election.

Q. What could Mr Martin do to (a) distract the people of British Columbia from Dohm's Day ... and (b) assist Premier Campbell in his hour of need. Those two know what they want. What do we want?

More money for Health Care. More money into universities. A moratorium on off-shore drilling for oil. And, for BC to have BC Rail back in our collective hands again, as well as total ownership of BC Ferries, BC Hydro, BC Medical. And most especially, I'd like to have Prime Minister Martin agree to a Public Enquiry on Organized Crime in government and commerce.

That'll do ... for April Fools Day, 2005.

To "foolow up" on BCMary's points, as well as Rafe Mair's HINTS re The Mulroney Files and Stevie Cameron, try surfing these dots into a unifying theory of the OneWorld bogyMan.

Stevie Cameron's comments about the furor around her book, The Three Amigos", can be read here: http://www.orwelltoday.com/mulroney.shtml

I recommend investigating the "wacko" links at the bottom of her article too.

The shocking conclusion, for Canadians who connect the dots, is realizing we don't have a clue who we really are, at home or in the world. The enemy is us...too, if we have any belief that we are a country with a representative system of government. If it doesn't represent us properly by "good" and "responsible" policies, it is our duty to do something about it. Whether the media condescends to report treason and treachery or not. Or shall we just wait for that liberating day?

Lets recall that todays news had an announcement from Volcker, vindicating the UN Oil for Food scandal on the basis of "insufficient evidence".

http://www.think-aboutit.com/Conspiracy/rockefeller_links_of_canadian_po.htm

The Rockefeller links of Canadian politicians...
It may re-pay the reader to spend a few minutes tracing the connections of Paul Desmarais and Power Corp. to the leading politicians, etc. of Canada...

Paul Desmarais, Power Corporation, Maurice Strong etc. at:
wikipedia.org

or:

"Canadian coincidences are piling up in the UN’s Oil-for-Food Program. Fox News reported on Tuesday that Annan's #2 Blocks Oil-for-Food Scrutiny. Kofi Annan’s #2 is Canada's Louise Fréchette. Louise Fréchette served under Prime Minister Paul Martin when he held the title of Canada's Minister of Finance."
Canada's Prime Minister, the UN Secretary-General and Louise
by Marinka Peschmann, Special to Canada Free Press, Thursday, March 3, 2005

Define "insufficient" please. And wasn't Paul Martin's daddy a bigwig in the UN too? Talk about "the three amigos"! Maybe its a frigging "brotherhood", if you care to investigate the same information through so-called conspiracy portals...which is how I ended up reading about the Mulroney files and Stevie Cameron.... ;-]

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/schreiber.html

Stay curious! Have courage.

A really good piece, Geronimo, and useful links. Thanks.

Following Geronimo's sage advice to "Stay curious! Have courage." I would ask readers who wish to learn more about Stevie Cameron to please go to the Vivelecanada.ca site and read the recent two-part series by Canadian (and BC) writer Robin Mathews called, "Brian Mulroney, Stevie Cameron, Greed, Ambition, and Canadian Fate".

This article is based on a a book review of William Kaplan's, "A SECRET TRIAL, Brian Mulroney, Stevie Cameron, and the Public Trust," McGill-Queen’s, 2004.

I personally think Rafe is mistaken in his defense of Cameron's innocence.

Mathew's articles can be found at the following URL:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/index.php?topic=robinscolumn

Hmmm. On another note. I wonder if this new setup of The Tyee has eliminated that nasty old need to html every paragraph. :-)

Ol' Rafe is blowing a lot of smoke here. The book is available in your public library.

Michael Bliss, a true Mulroney-hater, writes in his review:

"The historian was astonished when the revelation was made public that Brian Mulroney -- who in sworn testimony had seemed to imply that he had minimal contact with Schreiber -- had actually received a total of $300,000 in cash payments from Schreiber shortly after leaving office.

Kaplan has trouble squaring these payments with statements Mulroney made to him and in court about his relations with Schreiber. There is no documentary substantiation for the explanation that Schreiber had hired Mulroney to promote a pasta business and arrange other business contacts. Above all, there is the oddity of a former prime minister accepting large payments in cash.

"What exactly was it for?" Kaplan asks of the money. "And how was it papered? Are there invoices, for example? ... Call me old-fashioned, but I want former prime ministers to provide moral and ethical leadership ... I want former prime ministers, if questions are raised about their conduct and behaviour before, during, or after they held office, to answer those questions by providing every single last detail. ... Being prime minister of Canada is the biggest trust of all, and the obligations that go with it last forever."

A Secret Trial goes into this matter in great detail, but is also being talked about for other reasons. Kaplan completes a demolition of the reputation of investigative journalist Stevie Cameron, who was indeed informing to the RCMP while pursuing what now has to be seen as a tarnished crusade against Brian Mulroney and his friends."

Norman, how can it be both those things: questionable Mulroney statements, odd cash payments, lack of moral leadership (to put it kindly) on the one hand ... and, on the other hand ... calling these reasonable doubts "a tarnished crusade against Brian Mulroney and his friends."

Mr. Spector has adroitly confused the issue. Rafe Mair argues Canada's largest media outlets exercise various forms of censorship. Rather than disputing this, Mr. Spector (well known columnist for the Asper conglomorate) responds by discussing Mulroney's reputation. Mr. Spector is uniquely qualified to tell us the truth about big media, but given his employment relationship, it is unlikely we'll ever hear it.

This discussion is about media censorship, folks like Brian Mulroney and Gordon
Campbell would not exist if it were not for the corporate media which is so embedded with
The ruling elite and their interest. How about the death of Reagan this year, their should have been celebration in the streets that this war criminal is dead, all his adventures in Central and South America, 2 famous Reagan quotes 1) He points at the Taliban and says that these men are the equivalent of the US founding fathers. 2) He says I am a contra . THE SITUATION IS DESPERATE WHEN WE PROP UP THESE MEN AS HEROES, WE ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE. Reagan who said we cannot afford 300,000 for meal programs for intercity kids while he jacked up the deficit to almost
2 trillion in military spending.

So there are 3 kinds of people 1) Those who think things are just dandy and like the status
Quo, when things happen they look to their media gods for the answers.
2) Those who complain and think they are powerless,
3) Those who reject the current system and know they have all the power. History has proven that worker rights, environmental protections, heath and education benefits etc were not given but taken by the power of the people.

So lets set some clear goals and aim for them, just pick one thing or use a skill you have
To affect change, until we democratize the media nothing will change.

The Vietnam war was ended by global waves of protest from all facets, once you have critical mass you have power.
See my about posts for more details on how to act. But just some ideas
1) Lobby regulators, it works , see above,
2) Lobby government officials, get organized and use the strength,
3) Boycott advertisers and the media itself, why give them ratings.
4) Support independent media in all its forms, both by volunteering , financially
Or just telling folks to tune in.
5) Use the courts, maybe someone with more experience than me can find ways to sue for
Libel etc
6) Direct action, be creative , its fun.
7) Start you own, England , France and Germany both have major newspapers that are left
Leaning giving some balance, they are supported by the major unions, our unions are behind here.
It could happen , the Dailey 24 hrs just started in Van, Sun Media and the Patterson group started it, hey hardly socialist but at least their not CanWest.
Just my 2 cents,
We Live in the belly of the beast and the whole world is hoping we scratch.

sorry about format and typos, at work, See my about posts for more details of lobbying regulators.

above posts, sorry

Mary,

Good question. Check out the book for yourself; it's avaiable at the public library.

On the left, the reviwer in This Magazine wrote, "William Kaplan’s A Secret Trial is quite possibly the most important book on public life in Canada that has been published this year."

On the right, Andrew Coyne wrote, "The book of the year is also, curiously, the least noticed. In any other country, William Kaplan's A Secret Trial: Brian Mulroney, Stevie Cameron and the Public Trust would be a sensation. Parliament would be in an uproar. Public inquiries would be ordered. The implications would be thrashed out in every newspaper, on every talk show. We would be sick to death of it by now."

I agree with both reviewers and others--which is why, when asked by Kaplan, I agreed to write an afterword about my experience in government and the media.

Check it out; you won't be disappointed.

Uh.. Norman, I wonder if you could possibly answer BC Mary's question a bit more directly. She asked a good question, but you only answered by recommending a couple of reviewers, and telling her what a good question it was--and telling her to read a book on it, eh. Calling criticism of Mulroney a "tarnished crusade" is not really answering her question. I'd like to know more about the three hundred grand, too. Do you know what it was all about, and if the money was actually paid to Mulroney by his apparently one-time right-hand man?

Truman

It's a long and very complicated story about how Canada really works. Here's a link that re-prints Paul Wells' review in Maclean's:

http://www.mqup.mcgill.ca/extra.php?id=139

"The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness."
-Hannah Arendth, The Origins of Totalitarianism 1951

Norman, thanks for the link to Paul Well's story in Maclean's. I heard the story about the hotel room payments a few weeks ago-- although I can't remember the source--and at the time I thought: this should be the biggest story of the decade. I mean... do we actually have proof that the former Prime Minister was accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in a hotel room? Where are the headlines and the outcries and investigations etc.? As you write in response to BC Mary, even Andrew Coyne--no Mulroney tarnisher to be sure--wondered why this wasn't a hugely popular book. Paul Wells concludes his review by asking, "So what was the reaction when the Globe published a good chunk of this in 2003? Eerie silence." Kaplan speculates, "Astonishingly, there was next to no public or media reaction. Partly that's because the Globe dumped the story on its hapless readers in three horse-tranquilizer instalments over four days. But I think it's also because Canada's current absurd media oligarchy encourages newspapers to ignore even the most compelling stories from their competitors." My question to you Norman is: what is your opinion about why such a huge story has received such miniscule coverage, and how do you view Kaplan's speculation concerning the "media oligarchy?" As Jeffrey J. writes, you are perhaps "uniquely qualified" to enlighten us regarding media reaction to these events. Truman Green

Spector's capacity for original comment approaches zero.

The best he is able to manage is a reference or maybe a link to someone else's comment which may or may not be original.

Read his columns. If he's not recapping he's regurgitating, both done in the hope of using up enough words so that it appears that he's written a complete column full of actual thoughts. Now and then there is one in there amongst the dross and the drivel but never original and never very meaningful. He simply has enough of a condescending air to make the hoi-polloi believe that he must know whereof he speaks. In point of fact he may well know whereof but of that he must not speak.

Perfect career choice for a former second rate political hack to become a third rate political columnist.

Yoo hoo, Norman. You are the author of the two opposing statements about Mulroney.

So why are you referring me to the reviews of two other people??

Your condescension is noted (like I wouldn't know how to obtain a book unless you explained how?) and I'll work up a plan to get even with you someday.

Mary,

I'm sorry if I offended you; I think Kaplan's book is important, and did not want you to think I was hyping it to sell it.

Truman,

I think the explanation for media silence about this story is a bit more complicated than Wells suggests--even non-corporate media people like Rafe have it wrong.

I've tried my best to explain the silence in the afterword. If you don't have time to read the book, you might want to check out the review by Peter Desbarats, former dean of journalism at Western who later chaired the Somalia Inquiry, in the November Literary Review of Canada.

I think that Norman ought to address some of the issues that Robin Mathews brings up in his review of Kaplan's book. It would appear from what Mathews says that Norman has learned a few tricks from his old taskmaster Mulroney.

Mathews writes:

"Kaplan is, obviously, not on the political left. Even so, the book might leave some liberal-minded people puzzled. Its quite unnecessary foreword is by J. L Granatstein, a certified right-wing ideologue. The equally unnecessary afterword is by Norman Spector, a Mulroney appointee of quite long service. In a distasteful way, a man who did not scruple to take various appointments from Mulroney, Norman Sector tells tales on him now.

One of Spector’s tasks, as well, seems to be to “balance” Kaplan’s book by a “Liberals are corrupt, too” addition. It doesn’t advance the book’s purpose in any way. For instance, Spector reports that “Kaplan was surprised and disappointed that the National Post proved to be a lapdog for the powerful, not a watchdog.” (p. 215) Spector defends the National Post by equivocation. (That he now works for CanWest, owner of the National Post, is slightly embarrassing.)

Then he attacks the CBC as “Left” (which is as stupid a canard as can be hauled up by a right-winger. All one can say is: “Would that the CBC was Left!”) He urges that the CBC needs much reform, but he doesn’t say the same of CanWest which needs reform much, much more, and is deliberately and ideologically prejudiced and manipulative.

But most important, Spector draws a picture of himself as someone who witnessed or was aware of misuse of office, favour-giving, and pork-barrelling in both Conservative and Liberal governments – activities which required bold public resignation from position and exposure of the wrong-doings in order to help maintain integrity in public life. He did not take those steps. His long-after-the-facts recounting of bad deeds implicates him in the obloquy he directs at others. It is not a pretty picture.

Spector continues today in an ambiguous position, apparently confusing himself - certainly confusing this reader. The dust jacket of A SECRET TRIAL reports that he is a columnist for the Globe and Mail and Le Devoir. Now he is more. On March 12, 2005, I read a column by Spector in The Vancouver Sun and the Victoria Times Colonist – both columns exactly the same, and both in CanWest papers.

Worse. In the twice-printed column, Spector is (surprise) lambasting the Left, and he enters what he calls a “disclaimer.” “I don’t work for this newspaper; while I write a weekly column, I’m also a regular in two other newspapers….” But wait! He writes a column every week that appears in the Vancouver Sun and the Victoria Times Colonist, both owned by CanWest Global. He writes the column for them, and he obviously receives payment for the column. And so in the normal person’s mind he “works” for the two papers, for two CanWest papers.

By what contortion of the real situation can he say “I don’t work for this newspaper,” in a column that appears weekly in the paper and for which he is contracted and paid? One thinks immediately of Brian Mulroney’s answers under court questioning – carefully examined by William Kaplan – and suspects that Norman Spector spent a little too long as an appointee during the Mulroney regime to be able to face his position squarely and describe it as it truly is. He seems embarrassed enough to be writing for CanWest that he fudges the fact that he “works” for CanWest. He doesn’t, you see. He writes for CanWest. He gets paid for writing for CanWest. He agrees to do a weekly column for CanWest. But don’t be misled – he doesn’t “work” for CanWest!"

And Rafe Mair works for Jimmy Pattison -

Arthur,

I wrote in the Sun, "First, a disclaimer. I don't work for this newspaper; while I write a weekly column, I'm also a regular in two other newspapers, both under different and separate ownership."

The statement is entirely truthful and unambigous.

Obviously Sun readers know that I appear weekly; I'm informing them, as a freelancer, that I do not work for any of the three separately-owned newspapers for which I write and receive bounteous sums of money. (Le Devoir and the Globe are the other two.)

No doubt they are paid, but do you think that Adrian Dix "worked" for CanWest when he was writing a weekly column? Or Paul Ramsay? Or that Elizabeth Cull does as of last week?

As to Robin Matthews' review, I'm sorry he did not like my Afterword. Here's another view--that of Peter Desbarats, a veteran journalist, former dean of journalism at Western and member of the Somalia Commission disbanded by Jean Chretien:

"Kaplan's book comes replete with foreword, already cited, and afterword. Usually an afterword is something to be skimmed over lightly - a place for authors to bring things up to date or to unburden themselves of information that didn't quite fit into the book. Not in this case. The afterword of "A Secret Trial" is one of the best parts of the book. In fact, it's almost a short book in itself and is, I hope, the rough sketch of an eventual political memoir by Norman Spector, a frequent columnist for The Globe and Mail and former chief of staff to Prime Minister Mulroney, Canadian ambassador to Israel and publisher of The Jerusalem Post."

Readers of the book can decide for themselves, as they can on the question of whether Kaplan or Rafe offers the more credible intepretation of Stevie Cameron's role.

BC MARY WRITES"
What do we want?

More money for Health Care. More money into universities. A moratorium on off-shore drilling for oil. And, for BC to have BC Rail back in our collective hands again, as well as total ownership of BC Ferries, BC Hydro, BC Medical. And most especially, I'd like to have Prime Minister Martin agree to a Public Enquiry on Organized Crime in government and commerce.

Please BC Mary - speak for yourself and I would be happy if you could just put aside your constant wild conspiracy theories for the time being. It makes a boring read and is completely nonsensical without the facts. I'd almost bet you would be in favour of hanging the two Air India guys anyway, (regardless of fact that they were both found innocent.

Why do I waste my words on you folks, you more ego centric then I thought .
Gee, I wonder if Mulroney was a crook, I wonder if Jean Chrétien is a crook, I
Wonder if Ronald Reagan was a good guy, who gives 2 sh...s about these folks.
Maybe your conversation would be good at Starbucks over a latte, you could go back
And forth and try and prove who's right. The fact is Mulroney is rich and be beat
His wrap, in fact no only were the RCMP unable to move forward they got sued for trying
To do so. So if the RCMP was unable to get Mulroney do you think he gives 2 cents what
Some author or anyone else thinks, get over it. Folks like Mulroney are just pimps of the
Current system , I remember him and Regan breaking bread while they sold out 1000's of independent small businesses in my community via NAFTA , funny your conversations all have something in common. They don't require you to do anything, Folks like Mulroney and others will all enrich themselves with your money because of your complacency.
HOW ABOUT CENSORSHIP-----THINGS GOING ON WHILE YOU PONTIFICATE
1) Independent journalist Dahr Jamail spoke on what he has witnessed reporting from Iraq, including the devastation of Fallujah, I watched his slide presentation , every building had
Been bombed kind of like a post Nazi invasion in France,
2) Gordon got a free ride on his budget, no debate on over 13 billion dollars of your money, I guess debate is bad for the polls, lap dog media in hand.
3) Green party leader gets to go on the TV debate, a party that has never won a seat now gets to be propped up to split the vote.
4) Tons of toxins and poisons found in the Fraser River largely due to cut backs to enforcement.
5) The Salmon run is next to dead, less than a 3rd of the first returned. (get used to your
Farmed fish)
6) IN the next 3 weeks we will kill almost 350,000 seals for fashion ,
Sorry get back to your Mulroney talk, much more important to prove your point of view.

Well stuart, I once had a boil on my butt! - so stop complaining

We really should welcome "the punisher" here and observe him, because he/she represents one of the best psychological types, indeed specimens, that pop up through out history, always as shills for authoritarian thought and the attempt to normalise brutality, tyranny and sheer evil... what Edward Herman called normalising the unthinkable. So for the punisher when you ask good questions like BC Mary did that challenge the integrity of the present system and then you have the audacity to actually expect not only an answer but an honest one, then you are called a conspiracy theorist. How dare you be so bold to question! Or if, like Stuart, you are shaken and outraged that Fallujah really no longer exists, and has in fact, been blown off the face of the map by corporate america, or that Gordo and his motley crew have over 13 BILLION dollars of our money to feather their election nest of false promises with, all without a word of our consent.... then according to The punisher, the neo-con neutralizer, stop complaining and whining... just get on the train and whatever you do don't ask where it's taking you.

whew! - and you don't even know me.

And you know what Stu?
Its all connected -including your pertinent list of outrage. Yes, we need MORE NASTY NOISE about Campbell's $13 BILLION DOLLAR snatch from public coffers just as he decreed an extended holiday from the sweaty labours of commie corporate centralization for weeks prior to the "election". Yeah, let's all make a break for it, ha.ha. As if there is any where to run.

Well, there may be a few foxholes left, if we do our homework.

I wonder who has read the noble, desperate letter quietly hidden in the deeper pages of this website?

http://www.thetyee.ca/Bios/David_Beers/

An Open Letter to Lieutenant Governor Iona Campagnolo

The B.C. Liberals intend to close the legislature five weeks early on Thursday, denying serious scrutiny of $13 billion in expenditures of taxpayers' money. Your Honour, you have the power to prevent this abuse of democracy..."

Sorry to bring it up again, but I'm driven...Did this recent piece by Charlie Smith ever appear in the Straight? I hope he wasn't looking for a censorship "safety zone" --oops.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/1/17/133225.shtml

The Oil-for-Food Scandal – the Canadian Connection
Charles R. Smith
Tuesday, Jan. 18, 2005

"...Hussein was not alone in his corruption, and several others involved in the money flow, including government firms and politicians in Europe, are now nervously following the investigations while checking out one-way flights to Paraguay.

BNP Paribas

Top among these is the European-based BNP Paribas bank, which the U.N. chose to administer the program and which reportedly received nearly $1 billion for its efforts. Congressional investigators reviewing the bank's actions have discovered broken rules, missing documents and improper transfers by BNP Paribas, which up until now has been assumed to be a French bank.

In fact, BNP Paribas is actually controlled by Power Corporation, an appropriately named Canadian company that has a shocking track record of 'business' relationships with the worst gangsters and tyrannical regimes in the world..."

What I'd really like to see is a website button -vote on a matter that keeps popping up - not just in my own crazed mind - but in British Parliament (twice) and in at least once in Italy, big time:

Do the people demand a legally empowered citizen's investigation into the existance of secret societies (such as FreeMasonry and the like) operating at any level within the Canadian government, effecting a discernible corruption of power, law, and the public's trust?

just wondering...

Not to hog space, but before we turn the page I just want to drop this provocating new left-think link:

http://www.thebreakthrough.org/strategy.php

The Era of Small Thinking is Over

“...Progressives do the opposite. Ask a conservative policy
wonk in Washington, DC what they’re working on and you’ll hear something like, “Protecting America’s prosperity by fighting for free markets and democracy.”
As the same question of a progressive and you’ll hear, “I’m working to pass McCain-Lieberman, the bi-partisan policy proposal that aims to regulate carbon emissions by putting a market ‘cap’ on CO2 and auctioning
off ‘permits to the sky’ that will be invested
in a way to assure greater equity for consumers.”

And people continue to ask me about why the media doesn’t
give more time to progressive voices.”

"Thinking Outside of the Category"
By Peter Teague, Environment Director, Nathan Cummings Foundation

Why are progressives in a comparatively weak historic position? What do you see as the key factors that have led to this situation?

We are oriented towards problems, issues and complaints and our politics are therefore defined by fragmentation rather than unification. To the extent that we think beyond what and who we are not, we tend to focus on the things that separate us: issues, identities, demographics and geography. We then organize ourselves into ever-narrower fragments with rigid categorical boundaries.

Why?

• The mistaken belief that things get more manageable the more narrowly we focus on them

• The mistaken belief that people act in their rational self-interest (as defined by us) if given appropriate facts

• Hostility to new ideas

• Failure to question basic assumptions and orthodoxies

• Fear of imagining plausible alternatives

• We’ve forgotten who we are

What big questions are progressives not asking that they should be asking?

• Are there plausible alternatives to free-market capitalism, and if so, what are they?

• What is the proper role for American military force? [or Canadian]

• What do we know about our place in the universe that we are not articulating?

• Are we more comfortable with losing than with making the sacrifices necessary to win?

• What is the progressive moral hierarchy, and what price do we pay for maintaining it?

Anything we didn't cover you feel is essential to include – either as root cause of progressives' weakened position or suggested remedies?

Building our infrastructure is important, and 2004 showed what could be accomplished quickly. At the same time we should resist the temptation to fetishize infrastructure at the expense of doing the work of developing intellectual and moral clarity, coherence and integrity.

Posted by Michael Shellenberger
Wed 16 Mar 2005

Yeah! Geronimo,

And what about those nasty plumbers' and their union buddy crap-for-crap scandal? I'd like a big button that says "flush twice, it's a long way to party headquarters".

I answer to your wondering - no they don't

Geronimo, I'm not sure if you're being facetious in your reference to Charles R. Smith. He is not the same journalist as Charlie Smith of the Straight. On different sides of the moon, so to speak. Charles R. Smith is an American cyber-tech expert with close ties to the US military.

Lynn,
not meant to be facetious at all. Easy mistake, I'm sure anyone can appreciate...if it is indeed a case of 2 different writers. The article makes zinger connections regarding corrupt Cdn elites & political networks regardless, IMHO. Was this your intended point of dispute perhaps?

While I'm back, appologies to Ms. Cameron and my mixup on her book title, "The LAST Amigo". Unfortunately not.

Thanks too for the article Rafe, and welcome aboard the tyee airwaves. Can't believe your invited speech was spiked by a school for journalists. University classes are prime turf for disruptively questioning moles, I've found. Kids come out of school with the right-wing drill and no sense of history - so no grounds for critical thinking. Then they write our newspapers?

Hey - did someone just say "Do a critical mass email to the Ryerson Review of Journalism"?

;-]

I enjoyed reading your comments, Geronimo, I just thought it was a curious article. To be fair to Charlie Smith of the Straight that article is not written by him but by Charles R. Smith, an American journalist with quite a curious background as well. Smith, while pointing to the corruption of Canadian elites in the oil-for food program is at the same time quite an apologist, to say the least, for the American government and it's military's attack on Iraq, hailing both the American miltary and Congress as heroes, and going as far as to excuse the US completely by saying: "Yes, it may have been "all about the oil" - but it didn't involve Americans, who did not own any of the oil in Iraq, but rather a horde of rich global fat cats who wanted to make millions in a so-called UN humanitarian program." Believe me, I am not defending those rich global fat cats, just that I find that article interesting but not for quite all the same reasons as you. There is a slant to that article that is attempting to re-focus the Iraq mess on anybody but Americans. And again I am not saying that others are not involved.

The punisher can be welcomed, of course. But he speaks with such confident authority when he mocks the contributions of others, that I'm inclined to make a point or two.

When lynn calls him on all this attitude sans substance, he says 'and you don't even know me'. Nobody is that opaque. We know quite a bit about you from your words and the choices you make about using them.

You identify yourself as a comic book character, for example. A pen and ink, two dimensional thing of bulges and primary colours, with even fewer dimensions to his moral structure. A perfect icon for the childishly black-and-white world view of the neo-con philosophy you seem to be representing. Wreaking random havoc in aid of mindless judgement.

Dictionary.com gives us:
"1. To subject to a penalty for an offense, sin, or fault.
2. To inflict a penalty for (an offense).
To handle roughly;
3. hurt: My boots were punished by our long trek through the desert. "

"punish·er n.
Synonyms: punish, correct, chastise, discipline, castigate, penalize
These verbs mean to subject a person to something negative for an offense, sin, or fault. Punish is the least specific: The principal punished the students who were caught cheating. To correct is to punish so that the offender will mend his or her ways: Regulations formerly permitted prison wardens to correct unruly inmates. Chastise implies either corporal punishment or a verbal rebuke, as a means of effecting improvement in behavior: I chastised the bully by giving him a thrashing. The sarcastic child was roundly chastised for insolence. Discipline stresses punishment inflicted by an authority in order to control or to eliminate unacceptable conduct: The worker was disciplined for insubordination. Castigate means to censure or criticize severely, often in public: The judge castigated the attorney for badgering the witness. Penalize usually implies the forfeiture of money or of a privilege or gain because rules or regulations have been broken: Those who file their income-tax returns late will be penalized."

So; what is the source of the authority that places you in the position of punisher?

What offense, sin or fault do you find in these others that warrants punishment?

Sooner or later you'll have to face the substance of the argument you're mocking, or not. You'll be much more interesting when you do, so please try to see your way to making it sooner.

Well Beetle Bailey sooner or later you'll have to face the substance of the argument...

Let me start with, I have the T-shirt - and end with;

[commentor: Geronimo! - And you know what Stu? - Its all connected -including your pertinent list of outrage. Yes, we need MORE NASTY NOISE about Campbell's $13 BILLION DOLLAR snatch from public coffers just as he decreed an extended holiday from the sweaty labours of commie corporate centralization for weeks prior to the "election". Yeah, let's all make a break for it, ha.ha. As if there is any where to run.

Well, The punisher, it is all connected as Geronimo says when it comes to power. Power knows no borders and ruthless power has no conscience. Here in BC when people are forced to live on the streets, hungry and homeless, when crime increases because of desperation and lack of hope, when a walk in the park becomes dangerous territory because young people have no safety net, when our province is turned into a garage sale for foreign interests, when hospital hallways are the new emergency rooms , when the people of this province have no say over 13 billion dollars of their own money, when the freedom is removed from FOI... then you get t-shirts that become expresssions of outrage. As Bailey suggests, your moniker is an apt one, it's what this province is all about now, punishing those who dare get in the way of BC INC.

In your baseless opinion. In my opinion you ought to pick a better place in the world and go there. (I suppose you would hang the Air India defendants as well.)
If you are seeking ruthless, try Zimbabwe

Nice to be home, Coyote, Geronimo, Lynn, Bailey,(Lewis Swift, Shirin , please come back) lets stir it up. Fellow agitators unite. We will reject the status quo and "we must become the change we want to see" Gandhi

The fact that the Tyee and ourselves are speaking about media censorship, big money and political contributions and the neo conservative agenda shows that this is the beginning of the end. Once exposed fungus cannot Grow in the light, we must keep fighting and have fun doing it. Once you create critical mass you win, see my above posts for ideas , Come on folks we have important work to do, choose your target and everyone else will fall in line, I have no beefs with the punisher no matter how misguided he is. Its not his fault, most folks reject truth or ideas that differ from their view of the world. Its very scary and upsetting to realize you have been living a lie, We are exposed to media lies and propaganda everyday so we should not be hard of folks who are the victims of this. Most folks just disengage or try to scuttle conversation when it gets to scary for them. We had anti war protest world wide last month regardless of the fact we had no media support whatsoever. They are the enemy and we feed them,things are changing fast.

Dear The punisher;

See, now, there you go again. lynn makes arguments, you claim they're "baseless opinion".

Well, that's bull. I can find bases for all of it, I think. Let's see.
-Borderless, yup
-ruthless, yeah
-consciencless, OK
-forced hunger and homelessness, definately
-hopelessness, duh...
-increased danger from youth violence
-sale of public assets to foreign interests
-emergency room crisis
-$13,000,000,000.00 without debate

Did I miss any? No. Every one with a good evidential basis. What was baseless was your claim of baselessness. If you hold out 'better than Zimbabwe' as adequate justification for dismissing all this, then I'm disappointed in you.

I sense interest and passion in your posts, but I suspect you've closed your mind too soon and too tight. If you're young enough to get away with your t-shirt you're too young to give up hope so thoroughly. In some ways we are still better than Zimbabwe, but not all ways. And we're headed downhill fast.

Enjoying the ride, are you? Bring us a real thought, your own, for preference. Present it, along with it's basis. Join the conversation.

Jeez, Norman Spector...in the time you took to tell me why the media silence regarding the Mulroney hotel-payment incident is so complicated, and lecture me on how Canada really operates, you could have just given us a straightforward opinion. Since you elected to join the forum here on Tyee don't you think maybe you should be a bit candid---otherwise we're going to suspect everything you write--not to mention the possibility that it is starting to look like you're just trying to sell books and call attention to your columns. So why do you think the Mulroney hotel-room cash exchange story didn't get the national press coverage that it deserved?

Ahem. Remember Prime Minister Martin's fondness for April Fool's Day pranks? And how, last April 1, he gave us his "Dream Team" (his words, not mine).

This year, it's a repeat performance. British Columbia's gift this year? None of the things I suggested (03/29 above), darn it. This year B.C. gets the Canadian Tourism Commission and 86 people to operate it. Right. Woo hoo.

As for what happened with Basi, Virk, and Basi on this latest Dohm's-Day in BC Supreme Court, I haven't found a mention of it yet. I'll keep trying. Or ... will someone else report?

Thanks - but no Thanks Bailey,

Please let me be candid - I'm coming to the rapid conclusion that Tyee "headquarters" is secretly housed at Riverview Hospital, and you people live on the 13th floor.

See Stuart above and his call of the Coyote - "Fellow agitators unite. We will reject the status quo and "we must become the change we want to see" Gandhi"

Add the ever effervescent "Hang em' High"! BC Mary As for what happened with Basi, Virk, and Basi on this latest Dohm's-Day in BC Supreme Court, I haven't found a mention of it yet. I'll keep trying.

And lastly, your own baseless bull "In some ways we are still better than Zimbabwe" .... (
ps. in regard to Powerhead Lynn, the correct spelling is phew!)

Jean Binette writes: I agree:

The National Post (not Vancouver Sun or Province or Victoria Times Colonist) had this:

Judge refuses to unseal documents in B.C. government corruption case
Â*
VANCOUVER (CP) - A B.C. Supreme Court judge refused to unseal information used to obtain search warrants Friday in the corruption case of two former B.C. government ministerial aides.

Lawyers for several media outlets wanted the Crown to unseal another series of documents used to obtain warrants in the politically charged case, just as the Liberal government heads into a re-election campaign.

Roger McConchie, a lawyer for CTV, argued for the release of search-warrant information, saying David Basi and his co-accused, Bobby Virk, were highly placed individuals with close contact to government ministers.

But Basi's lawyer, Michael Bolton, argued against releasing the information because it could create a spectacle and cause the case to be tried in the media.

Basi and Virk are charged with fraud, breach of trust and influence-peddling related to the Liberal government's privatization of B.C. Rail...

The men were charged last December, a year after police raided Virk and David Basi's legislature offices, carting away boxes of documents and computers ...

Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm said it's important for the administration of justice that the trial get underway as soon as possible. The case is back in court on May 30.

©Â*The Canadian Press 2005
**********************
That's May 30, 2005 ... 13 days after the B.C. election.

Rafe states:

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h445.html

The Federalist Party is directly responsibile for the subversion of the American Ideal, as expressed by Thomas Paine. The members of this party early realized the potential for exploitation of the new World, not for some hypothetical greater social good, but for their own personal gratification. (George Washington himself stood to gain vast tracts of land in the Ohio River region, providing the rebellion was successful) And this exploitation (some would call it rape) called for a strong (some would call it dictatorial) central government.

But with a whole continent to run away to, individuals could practice (in a loose sense of the word) Thomas Paine's idealism, until the government caught up with them and their descendants. Finally, there was nowhere left to run to.............

The punisher punishes again. There ought to be sound effects to your contributions. They'd be better for the odd POW!!! of WHACK!!!or maybe THUD!!!

I'm sorry, but if we're being candid. you really aren't pulling this off very well. Now, by you, insanity is the explanation for all these people who dare to disagree with ...(wait for the cue)...The punisher!

Stuart and Coyote are nuts for citing historical precident and quoting Ghandi. Yup, that's just crazy alright, referring to Ghandi when the topic is how to create political change without violence.

You are stuck in the middle of your process, I think. It's easy to see where your attitude comes from, but it's all so partial. It's very incomplete. You've reached a place of comfortable certainty, but you yourself can feel that it depends on never doing the other half of the thinking. On denying all the things these people are saying to you. That explains why you feel so threatened by dissenting opinion and evidence that you must attack; punish these cheeky people who won't stop pointing when they see lies, corruption and destruction of the things they built up since 1952. Why else would you care a hoot about what any of us say or think?

To protect your position, it's imperative that all this evidence and argument you've found here be "baseless". But your problem is it's not, and saying so will never make it so. It's inevitable, if you stay on the path you're on. Sooner or later you will either face it and respond, or run away and hide from it, consoling yourself by telling yourself that we're all just whack jobs.

I'm not claiming we're all right or anything, but our search for right is sincere, and to make that search is right.

Oh, and Riverview is pretty much closed now. It never had thirteen floors.

This completes the current bits of the Basi, Virk, and Basi puzzle, leaving us to ask: why are CanWest's B.C. readers given less information than CanWest's National Post readers?

Not until April 2 did this abbreviated item (below) appear identically in Vancouver Sun, Vancouver Province, Victoria Times Colonist, each with two omissions: B.C. Supreme Court Associate Justice Patrick Dohm is not named as the presiding judge, and no mention is made of the May 30 date set for the next hearing. Rafe Mair: please do a new article about censorship. And quickly!

Broadcast news
Saturday, April 02, 2005

Judge refuses to unseal documents

A B.C. Supreme Court judge has refused to unseal information used to obtain search warrants in the corruption case of two former B.C. government ministerial aides.

Lawyers for several media outlets were in court in Vancouver yesterday.

They wanted the Crown to unseal another series of documents used to obtain warrants in the politically charged case.

A lawyer for CTV argued for the release of search warrant information, saying David Basi and his co-accused, Bobby Virk, were highly placed individuals with close contact to government ministers.

But Basi's lawyer, Michael Bolton, argued releasing the information could create a spectacle and cause the case to be tried in the media.

Interesting, isn't it BC Mary, that what is left out in a news item often reveals where the real bias and perhaps the real story lies. I read a letter to the editor in our local paper which asked a very good question in regard to the silence surrounding the puzzle you mention above, he asked : "Why am I asking the questions journalists should be asking?"

Oh yes, Lynn. Here's one omission I missed at first myself ... the difference between the National Post headline and the B.C. headline:

Judge refuses to unseal documents in B.C. government corruption case for the national readership ... and

Judge refuses to unseal documents was the headline in all three B.C. newspapers, for B.C. readers. The point: no, no, there's no government corruption here!

Well, OK, but I think it's high time this is proven in court. The prosecution has apparently delivered all 10,000 documents and is ready to go. So am I. You?

That certainly was a wonderful question: why am I asking the questions journalists should be asking?! Well ... we surely wouldn't want the truth to "create a spectacle and cause the case to [appear] in the media, would we?"

Mr. Spectre writes

Interesting he feels compelled to add "entirely truthful". While it may be literally true, it is quite ambiguous. Submitting columns to another publisher does not diminish Mr. Spectre's employment relationship
with the Asper conglomerate. And exactly what that relationship is only Mr. Spectre can tell us. Whether he will is another matter. Depending upon the terms of his contract, he is likely in fact forbidden from discussing it. Which makes his "objectivity" in this (and other) debate rather dubious.

Spectre goes on to say that

Another red herring. We're discussing censorship exercised by monopolistic news agencies. The above columnists are NOT discussing this, but Mr. Spectre is. Can he, objectively? Not likely. Will any of the above authors be submitting an article to the Sun critiqueing CanWest's forms of censorship. Of course not. That's the point. People who are paid "bountiful sums of money" from CanWest (or Conrad Black etc) are NEVER going to agree publicly with the evidence adumbrated by Rafe Mair. It's called "conflict of interest". Mr. Spectre's opinions about news monopolies, (inspite of all attempts to sound objective) will always be suspect, as the truth about the matter is likely in conflict with CanWests' self-interest.

I can't help but wondering is, why is Mr. Spectre so eager to critique the Tyee??? Academic interest, or contractually funded...

In my take on what Mr. Spectre wrote, he was telling us he's a freelance columnist, not a salaried employee. Any or all of the people who pay him would be free to accept or reject anything he submits, so really Jeffrey J is kind of flogging an empty point.

Norman Spectre makes no secret of his viewpoints, he always advances the discussion, his observations are good and he's usually ready to defend them. I even heard him change his mind once or twice, a sign of an open mind. I personally like reading him as he posts here.

It seems to me he comes here because he feels the importance of the topics and the huge need this province has for debate and discussion. So do I, so do we all.

What's wrong with that?

Nice to see Rafe on the Tyee. I've enjoyed your programs on salmon Rafe, keep 'em coming. CKNW replaced you with the ultimate in boring. One day I'm going to create a drinking game based on whenever Bill Good says "your tax cut". Obviously Cdn journalism is skewed towards the ownership of the media. Obvious to all yet rarely admitted and never anything done about it because those who love "competition" somehow always find a way to side with their own monopolies.

Mr Spector, throughout the debates over the Gutstein articles and now here you seem to still refuse to admit something smells in Cdn journalism. Oh, correction, you think the Tyee, the CBC and the TO Star fail the smell test but everyone else is lily white.

Mr. Spector (apologies for misspelling his name previously) dismisses Rafe Mair's article with his opening line: "Rafe is blowing a lot of smoke here". If reading Mr. Spector results in a Tyee fan concluding that Norman "comes here because he feels the importance of the topics and the huge need this province has for debate and discussion", cool. It's certainly in contast to what he says in his columns, and in most of his postings.

If in fact that's what he beleives, I assume he will say so. He's not known to be reticent. And if he gets around to it, I hope he also addresses what most Tyee readers would like to know: does Mr. Spector support media monopolized ownership, or does he share Rafe Mair's (and others) concerns about ownership dominance, corporate censorship, and a lack of diversity of published opinions. If he does, it would be great to read about in the Vancouver Sun. And if he does, I'll be the first to grant credit when credit is due.

KAFOOEY! BAILEY, In my view you KAPOW!!! yourselves. See Lynn and BC Mary above. (don't they realize that Basi and Virk are innocent - or do you suppose they just don't care?)

Obviously you must agree with their misguided mentality and could give a hoot about anyone's rights in your search for "right" (inquisition). However, sooner or later your "rights" group will have to apologize to tens of thousands of ordinary liberals.

Bailey wrote: I'm not claiming we're all right or anything, but our search for right is sincere, and to make that search is right.

(By the way, I'm not a Gandhi fan and you might notice that I am defending Basi and Virk's rights. And, as matter of fact, everybody knows how many floors there are at Riverview)

Jean Binette writes: I agree

Dear The punisher. Of course they're innocent. Everyone is, until proven guilty, goes the rest of the quote.

The point being made here is there's a strong suggestion that organized crime has made Canadian politics it's home. Bribery, money laundering, influence peddling, electoral fraud, dope, all these things have been connected to this case, evidence exists and has been collected.

We have an election in a few weeks. The last one we had was tainted by guys saying things they knew were total bullshit, just to convince weak minded (read honest) citizens to vote Liberal. They deliberately misled everybody. Fool me once, shame on you.

Now we have this horrendous scandal being nowhere in the mainstream (read Canwest) press, the only source of information for most voters. If this information is suppressed until after the election then we'll have another misled electorate voting for people when they really don't know the truth about them.

Mr. Bolton is quite correct. Releasing the evidence would cause a real kafuffle around here. Too bad. But without this information we cannot have a fair election. The Fixed date law they passed to protect themselves will make it hard to turf the scoundrels out if, after the election we discover that Enron financed the Liberal campaigns, Or that the Mafia were their couriers, or whatever the hell this hidden evidence proves. Fool me twice, shame on me.

$80,000 was transferred from BC Liberal aides to the Federal Liberal party in fake memberships. Where's the money? Where'd it come from, what was it for? Who were the principals? Tell us the answers, since you're so sure. Tell us now, with it's basis, before the election.

Then we can discuss the question of guilt and innocence all you want.

Jean Binette writes: Please Bailey, the prosecution is ready to go and they have over 10,000 documents See BC Mary above. No one else in goverment has been charged.

If you have ANY additional evidence you ought to tell it to the police. In the meantime please stop calling liberals "scoundrels" (generally.)

Hello Jean. I know nobody else in government has been charged. It worries me a lot, since the guys charged could only have been middlemen. No-one has suggested they kept the money they sent, or that it was theirs originally.

My concern is for the upcoming election, not the administration of justice. I'm a big fan of due process. I repeat, we cannot have a fair election without this information. Either way, if it proves corruption or if it proves innocence, we need to know. How can we choose in the dark?

As to scoundrels, I stand by my choice of that word soundly. I have a rather long list of reasons for choosing it, even without reference to the Basi-Virk case. It starts with family members and their businesses. It goes on from there for a good distance. I'm sure you have a list of your own that makes you want to think better of them.

Wanna compare lists? There was a good one going on the old site for a while. I bet others here would be willing to contribute their thoughts.

Whaddya say people? We're looking for specific reasons to think Liberals are scoundrels, and specific reasons to think they're not.

From Dictionary.com---

scoundrel

n : a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately [syn: villain]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

The BC lib advertizing binge is a form of censorship. They are now a significant contract for all the media. The ovious inference that media barons and their employees make (even subconciously)is dont "say anything that might make us lose the contract"!
There is a SUPER Canadian documentry that I recommend to you.
Perhaps through censorship?, I didnt notice the argintina story before.
It is called The Take and documents the state of affairs in Argentina over the last 5 years or so. Perhaps it is where BC is going? Antway, capitalism failed there (from the top down) and the president Carlos Menem went to Jail for a while.
They had a remarkeble solution to the economic disaster that followed.
Not long after coming out of jail, Menem actually won the first round of presidental elections. 24% of the vote.
Had this been a riding election in BC, he would have been elected.
Anyway, with the bottom candidates eliminated, Menem pulled out of round 2. Most of the rest of the people hated him and he had no chance of winning against the number 2 guy because most of the rest of the voters would have chosen his rival in a 2 horse race. However, he justified himself by saying that he won the first round.
It is an excelent movie and the drama is not played out yet so, I think we should stay tuned! Anyway, welcome Rafe, and the "soft muzzle" is an excellent title. It Could be a Pillow, eh?
And, the free press is being sufocated.

A soft muzzle could be a pillow, but it sounds sort of like some kind of foreplay to me.

You know foreplay. It's what happens just before somebody gets screwed.

The punisher: Basi, Virk, and Basi are innocent until proven guilty. The real questions swirl in and around them: In the case of Basi and Virk, why is one fired and one suspended with pay? Who made that decision and on what basis was that decision made? What was the discriminating factor that led to two different treatments of the two men? Why are the voters and taxpayers of BC not allowed to examine the charges in detail? Both Basi and Virk were members of the Young Liberals, both involved in membership drives. David and Aneal Basi were involved in selling Liberal Party memberships ($330,000 per year) to people who could not speak English, (some unaware that they had even joined the Liberal Party), along with a number of dead family pets that were signed up as well. So where did all the money that poured into the Liberal Party originate from? We're just asking questions. That's our right don't you think? If our information is wrong, correct it, and tell us why it is wrong. There are many of us who feel we should know this information before we place our vote. If you feel that we have no right to this information before we vote in the upcoming election, then tell us why. Let's hear your argument. I know all of this pales in comparison to a wee deck and the grand "karfuffle", borrowing Bailey's word, that it caused. I remember one helluva noise being raised at the time and much presumption of guilt, though no guilt was eventually found. I'm sure you must have spoken up for the presumption of innocence for Mr. Clark as well, right? To tell you the truth, I've given up on most of the the media. I expect little and am never disappointed. History and time will record what they did and didn't do. As a kid, growing up in the sixties, when 1939 seemed a time long, long ago and a place far, far away, I always wondered how it all happened so easily, with a cunning effortlessness. I now know how. I remember thinking we were very lucky it was all behind us. I now know it isn't.

I see: so now you're comparing liberals to Nazis - is that it?

I've heard this argument before. 'Don't compare us to the Nazis, it's not polite'.

And it's true. There are significant differences, for example, there's no giant racist argument. But the Nazi's racist campaign was not random, it had a purpose. To create an 'other'. An outside scapegoat to blame everything on. In essence, a smokescreen whose purpose is to baffle dissent by irrelevent distraction. "If they can keep you from asking the right questions, they don't have to worry about the answers".

The Nazis spread hatred of Jews by claiming they were controlling international banking, and bankrupting Germany. It was completely untrue, the Nazis knew it. And it was completely effective in distracting and derailing all legitimate dissent among Germans and in the greater world.

These Liberals have 'Socialism'. The co-operative, the poor, the non-competitive, the opposition. They spread hatred and mistrust against them, lay false blame, false claims of all sorts, like 'The Socialist NDP drove BC to ruin with huge deficits and debt' while the truth is very different, and their own debt is the largest in history. The purpose is exactly the same. The process is exactly the same. Will the ending be different? How do we know?

The Nazis got power by a program of 'Big Lies'. They made arguments and statements they knew were untrue to get votes. They whipped up common feelings of fear, then claimed that they themselves were the only solution. They cut taxes. They formed unholy alliances with corporations to create a temporary artificial boom economy. They made themselves rich, but refused to explain the source of those riches. They controlled all the press they could, and marginalized the rest.

All right, Neo-conservatives aren't Nazis. But in 1927, the Nazis weren't Nazis. Whenever they showed their true colours, some who were doing well under the regime, or thought they might, would leap to their defense, spout the party lies, distract the voices of reason.

And nobody then would have ever believed what the next eighteen years would bring.

Eighteen years will bring us to 2023. Where will Neo-conservatism have brought us by 2023?

Jean Binette writes: Well Bailey, once again you confirm the punisher's point. You should notice that liberals don't have guns.

If you still don't get it, see Lynn above who writes [I]"selling Liberal Party memberships ($330,000 per year) to people who could not speak English, (some unaware that they had even joined the Liberal Party), along with a number of dead family pets that were signed up as well"[/I.]

Doesn't she know the truth of the matter, which is that two of her preferred candidates have been accused of that exact same sort of behavior many times over in the past, or is she just making arguments and statements she knows are untrue just to get votes. Didn't all that happen in Dosanjh's riding (territory) ?

Obviously we all need protection from paranoia or other delusion, and a soft muzzle is the preferred weapon of choice. - you decide.

(I've never lied to you, so why spread hatred against me?)

Jean Binette writes: Well Bailey, once again you confirm the punisher's point. You should notice that liberals don't have guns.

If you still don't get it, see Lynn above who writes "selling Liberal Party memberships ($330,000 per year) to people who could not speak English, (some unaware that they had even joined the Liberal Party), along with a number of dead family pets that were signed up as well".

Doesn't she know the truth of the matter, which is that two of her preferred candidates have been accused of that exact same sort of behavior many times over in the past, or is she just making arguments and statements she knows are untrue just to get votes. Didn't all that happen in Dosanjh's riding (territory) ?

Obviously we all need protection from paranoia or other delusion, and a soft muzzle is the preferred weapon of choice. - you decide.

(I've never lied to you, so why spread hatred against me?)

I don't hate you Jean. I'm not spreading anything against you. I'm merely pointing out my observations and concerns on a number of issues. Asking important questions. All you need do is answer them, to quiet me.

I don't even dislike you, in fact I quite enjoy the posts you make here, which is really all I know of you. As to whether you lie to me, well. I do think you profess to some positions you really don't hold, but that could just be pro forma party line stuff, and I could be wrong. Perhaps it's yourself you are deceiving. No matter.

Guns aren't the point. Guns come later, Jean, after pretense is done. The pretense is the problem. Capitalism was a great choice for Democracy, as long as there was a strong tradition of civic duty and even stronger checks and balances. Without these protections, it's as dangerous as guns are.

In a Democracy, taxes, and the things they provide must be sacrosanct. They are the only way we can control our fate. Public things must be public for the protection of all. Not just the friends and relations of cabinet members, or heavy contributors. All. This must include pensioners, the elders, the incompetent, the damaged. Those inconvenient ones the market would prefer not exist.

You're right in your 'business as usual' argument. Many of these things have been done before. But never on this scale. These Liberals have taken all our protections, all our property, all the things we built at great expense to protect ourselves from preditory Capitalists and just dismantled them. Handed them out to very questionable interests. What will we do without them?

Did they Run on a platform of "We will substitute our judgement for yours, your, parents and theirs"? Did they have a "We will gut the Auditor, the ombudsman, the rentalsman" plank? Did they make any speeches about how they admired the way Enron's finances were run so much that they would immediately hire Accenture to dismantle Hydro?

They have attacked the structure of parliamentary procedures, so they will be impossible to turf even if convicted. This is not business as usual. Sure, membership drives have always been kind of high spirited sporting events. Lots of scope for overexcited young folks to misbehave.

But our legislature was never raided by the police before. Money laundering? The police are very pro Liberal, Jean. How bad must things have gotten?

We don't know. We're not allowed to know until AFTER the next election. That fact troubles me very much. That one alone justifies the rant about the history of Europe in the last century. The parallels I point to are striking.

I understand you don't like to hear these things, and I usually don't speak so bluntly. But a lot of people want some answers, Jean. And Liberals are keeping very quiet. If you want to disarm speculation, your tool will be truth. Lots and lots of it. Answer questions, and they will not have to be asked again.

I hate to bluntly interrupt your twisted vocabulary Bailey, but I think Jean is a Liberal, who doesn't like it much when you make baseless allegations and then tag him as a Nazi.

Jean: The buying of party memberships is blatantly wrong wherever it occurs. I have no intention of defending Mr. Dosanjh... it is curious though, isn't it, that he is now a member of the Liberal party ? Now, I would like to hear you admit that the buying of BC Liberal memberships is equally disturbing, not to mention undemocratic.

No one is being tagged as a Nazi but fascism does not happen in a vacuuam, there are conditions that help to grow and culture it, which I think is the point being made by Bailey and myself. The little petri dish that is now BC is flourishing with just the right bacteria lately that is a threat to both our human and civil rights. It is interesting and shocking to note that most people in Nazi Germany didn't see the tyranny til far too late in the game, they were living ordinary lives, some even calling it the best time of their lives. Thus, the importance of critically thinking about what kind of society we have created, what kind of people we have allowed ourselves to become, step by insidious step.

Dear T. punisher; Is Jean Binette a Liberal? I didn't know that. Did he personally do the things we are discussing? I rather doubt it, but again, I wouldn't know.

I'm sorry you have trouble with my vocabulary. I recommend dictionary.com. It's pretty good if you're having trouble with some word or other. I use it a lot myself.

You just type in your word and it finds the definitions for you. It's easy. You could start with 'baseless.

OK Bailey, just for you, I already knew what the word means.

Main Entry: baseless
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: groundless
Synonyms: bottomless, flimsy, foundationless, gratuitous, groundless, reasonless, unconfirmed, uncorroborated, unfounded, ungrounded, unjustifiable, unjustified, unsubstantiated, unsupported, untenable, unwarranted
Antonyms: based, founded, substantial, well-founded
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: flimsy
Part of Speech: adjective 2
Definition: unconvincing
Synonyms: assailable, baseless, contemptible, controvertible, fallacious, false, feeble, frivolous, groundless, illogical, implausible, improbable, inadequate, inane, inconceivable, incredible, inept, lame, Mickey Mouse, poor, puerile, superficial, thin, transparent, trifling, trivial, unbelievable, ungrounded, unpersuasive, unreasonable, unsatisfactory, unsubstantial, weak, weakly, wishful
Antonyms: convincing, persuasive
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: gratuitous
Part of Speech: adjective 2
Definition: not necessary
Synonyms: assumed, baseless, bottomless, causeless, groundless, indefensible, needless, reasonless, supererogatory, superfluous, uncalled-for, unessential, unfounded, unjustified, unmerited, unnecessary, unprovoked, unsupportable, unwarranted, wanton
Antonyms: justifiable, necessary
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: groundless
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: false
Synonyms: baseless, bottomless, causeless, chimerical, empty, false, flimsy, foundationless, gratuitous, idle, illogical, illusory, imaginary, ridiculous, unauthorized, uncalled-for, unfounded, unjustified, unprovoked, unsupported, unwarranted
Antonyms: true
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: invalid
Part of Speech: adjective 1
Definition: worthless
Synonyms: bad, baseless, fallacious, false, ill-founded, illogical, inoperative, irrational, mad, not binding, not working, nugatory, null, reasonless, sophistic, unfounded, unreasonable, unreasoned, unscientific, unsound, untrue, void, wrong
Antonyms: true, valid
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: nonexistent
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: fictional
Synonyms: absent, airy, baseless, blank, chimerical, dead, defunct, departed, dreamlike, dreamy, empty, ethereal, extinct, extinguished, fancied, flimsy, gone, gossamery, groundless, hallucinatory, hypothetical, illusory, imaginary, imagined, immaterial, imponderable, insubstantial, legendary, lost, missing, mythical, negative, null, passed away, passed on, perished, shadowy, tenuous, ungrounded, unreal, unsubstantial, vacant, vague, vaporous, void, without foundation
Antonyms: actual, real
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: unfounded
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: false
Synonyms: baseless, bottomless, BS, deceptive, fabricated, fallacious, false, foundationless, gratuitous, groundless, hot air, idle, illogical, just talk, mendacious, misleading, off base, spurious, trumped up, uncalled-for, unjustified, unproven, unreal, unsubstantiated, untrue, untruthful, unwarranted, vain, without basis, without foundation
Antonyms: proven, substantiated, supported
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: unwarranted
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: unfair
Synonyms: baseless, bottomless, foundationless, gratuitous, groundless, indefensible, inexcusable, uncalled-for, unconscionable, undue, unfair, unfounded, ungrounded, unjust, unjustifiable, unjustified, unprovoked, unreasonable, unwarrantable, wrong
Antonyms: called-for, justifiable, reasonable, warranted
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

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Dear TP, Good work, I knew you could do it.

Let's just stick with baseless for the time being. I see you got a bit carried away with the technology there.

"Groundless". Good. Now the thing is you keep using the word baseless in response to posts that are actually setting out the grounds for various arguments, deductions and conclusions,

Refer above to lynn's post of 4/1/05. She offers power ignoring borders, an obvious reference to the softwood lumber dispute. Have they settled that? Or is her assertion based in fact?
-She offers homelessness. Are there no homeless people where you live? There are a distressing number around here, and more all the time. Their existence is the basis of her assertion.
-She offers increased crime and youth violence. Read a paper lately? A matter of statistical fact. Easily checked. Those occurences would be the basis of that.
-Sale of BC to foreign interests? Accenture, Sodhexo, BC Ferries and their shipbuilding contracts. Lots of basis for that one.
-Hospital emergency room crisis?
$13,000,000,000.00 I just love typing all those zeros. Did you know that every zero is the basis for a 10fold increase? Three zeros is 10x as much as 2; 4 zeros 10x as much as 3, 9 zeros 10x as much as 8? There are thirteen billion bases for that one.

Now that you've looked it up, try to use it correctly in a sentence three times, and the word will be yours forever.

I'll keep it short Bailey, because your posts are hardly worth responding to ...

"13,000,000,000.00 I just love typing all those zeros."

That's a whole lot of zero's Bailey, how many zero's are there in 39 billion?

Read any papers throughout the 90's?

PS Bailey,

Isn't Lynn the one who wrote "I've given up on most of the the media. I expect little and am never disappointed".

Perhaps she's a closet believer.

Oh, gentle intelligent Bailey ... the lessons you teach, the hearts you gladden, are legion.

The punisher: As Bailey has been patiently trying to teach you, you must pay closer attention to what you are actually reading. The details. It's called critical thinking. There is a very important word inserted in that sentence of mine you quoted and the word is "most". And my sentence stands... I have given up on most of the media...they are not doing their job. The Tyee is rare in that regard.

However, you might notice that the Tyee doesn't do news.

regards
The Punisher.

Dear TP; I have great hopes for you. That "regards" in your response to lynn. That's the second time I've seen you be courteous to someone you disagree with. That's a very high quality, shows a sense of proportion, civilized behaviour one doesn't always find in discussions where people feel strongly about their arguments.

Everybody perceives differently, thinks differently, experiences different things. Any two people, going through the same experience side by side will almost always describe things very differently. Even disagree about details. It doesn't mean either is wrong or lying. It just means people are different. That's what makes them interesting.

You express your beliefs pretty clearly. It's a good talent. If you start dealing on a point-by-point basis with the arguments your correspondents here are offering, or even at the level of basic assumptions, then I think I'd really enjoy those conversations.

I'm pleased you arrived here. You're welcome.

Dear Bailey, That's so sweet! of you ... I couldn't be more pleased than if the blessing came from the Pope himself.

Yours truly
The Punisher.

Jean Binette writes: Well that's terrific, we've finally pinned down Lynn as to where she gets her baseless information (evidence), that helps her form her baseless opinions; and it turns out to be the Tyee, who it appears, gets their mostly baseless information from the much hated Canwest. - Interesting

Dear Jean Binette; We ought to deal with this word 'baseless'. I've been paying rather close attention since before the last election. I stayed up late one night to watch this government betray thousands of working women and their families on CSPAN, while they were trying their best till 4am to disrespect and grind two lone opposition members into dust. Then I read the bill.

I was particularly fascinated by the clause that exonerated themselves from all consequences, civil or criminal for their acts. They knew exactly what damage they were doing. Then I watched them give that work to foreign friends; contributors I mean. I listened to the taped phone call where the Sodhexo guy, I think, tried to form a corrupt pact to fake a union affiliation in order to have a way to prevent these women from being able to rebid on their own jobs. Remember "Bingo-Bango"? This is well based in solid evidence, not 'Baseless' or even "mostly baseless" They actually found an IWA local to do it, but the courts threw it out. Based on evidence.

Every claim made here has been solidly based in evidentiary fact. Not baseless. I witnessed many of them myself. I had to deal with or somehow experience many of them myself. Personally. I, or somebody here has provided the basis for all of it.

To misquote William Golding, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

I think you're trying to say we're wrong. That's not the same thing as baseless. Or that you disagree, which should trigger argument. But that hasn't been working well for you lately, since so many are so ready to tell exactly what they base their complaints on.

Do you have some secret inside information that refutes the words of all these obviously sincere and frightened people? Well, bring it out, if you do. Pick a point and disprove it, based on fact. Answer a question, pick any one. Start anyplace.

If you think what you're hearing here is wrong, refute it, We can talk. But none of it is 'baseless'.

Well Bailey, you keep using the word "evidence" and it is plain you don't know what that means. In fact your baseless allegations comparing Liberals to Nazis is entirely unfounded. If you have solid "evidentiary fact", that you personally witnessed illegal activity by government or their agents yourself then you ought to go to the police.

In the meantime you and your allies should not make baseless allegations based entirely on baseless allegations you might have read in the media, (especially if Smythe was the source of the baseless information.)

First the trial - then the sentence.

Sincerely

Jean Binette
PS, if it would have been my choice, I would have gagged those two long ago. And that's a fact!

Jean Binnette, your above comment is evidence itself of how real debate has been shut down in this province, how step by step, authoritarianism is overtaking this province. Using your example there should have been no questions by the american public over Watergate, unless they actually personally witnessed the plumbers in their hotel room. You are showing you not only have no basis to your argument, but you have no argument, other than you think we should not question, just accept.

Tell us why then you think, using Bailey's example, that the contracting out of services to foreign corporations is good for the people of BC. We're prepared to listen - give us your argument.

This well has been poisoned. Valiant efforts haven't prevented the toxic drips from continuing.

I have a story. Recently I had dinner with some very nice young people. In answer to "What are you working on these days?" a young man described his thriving tech. business.

"The way it works," he explained, "is: after a doctor has seen a patient, he/she phones my office and dictates the medical comments. We collect these records and send them to India. They're transcribed and sent back to us. Yes, the business is doing well. All I need to do is expand my client base."

Today I happened to learn that the medical records for 630,000 Albertans have gone missing. I felt rotten. Why?

Because during that dinner, I could've asked "So what happens when medical records go missing in India? Does our RCMP or CSIS take charge, to protect our personal records?" But I didn't. I'm Canadian. I didn't want to embarrass anybody.

I even had time to wonder why a local doctor needs 2 weeks+ to refer my swollen hand to another local doctor ... are my records in India? China? Afghanistan? Alabama? But still I said nothing.

This is self-censorship. The soft muzzle. The crippling politeness that prevents us from saying "Stop it! We can do these things ourselves. And do it better!" as in building that new B.C. Ferry -- the job which has probably been promised to Poland.

Let me sweeten the well. Identifying our problems is the beginning of renewal. The next step is finding the right corrective actions. Let nobody imagine that merely throwing poison can do that.

Well, Jean, perhaps in the wee hours some morning, if they're re-elected, the Liberals can pass a nice law allowing you to just throttle and punish anyone who disagrees with what you want everyone to believe.

The Nazis did nothing illegal. Everything they did was first made a law, compulsary if not forbidden. The big problem at Nuremberg was that all the Nazis were officials of their legal government, and their crimes were not illegal in the jurisdiction where they were committed. In fact they were the orders of superiour legislated authority.

And the point of it all was that some laws are illegal in themselves. Wrong. Wicked. Evil.Intolerable. Abusive.

The BC liberals have been careful to use their dictatorial power to legalize those actions, which would harm British Columbians. All their abusive actions they first made legal. All their transfers of our money to their families, friends and contributors they first manipulated to fit into their new laws, or whatever was left of the laws after they gutted them.

And of course, without an effective Auditor or ombudsman or Freedom of Information, the only source of information about all this is media. If you're making the point that news gleaned from Canwest isn't evidence of anything at all, well, I'd love to explore that idea with you.

Gag yourself, sir. I won't be silenced by you while I live and breathe. My father and his father paid too high a price to protect my right to speak truth. I am not about to give it up to the likes of these neo-conservative bullies.

Well, unlike BC Mary, I'm not sweet and polite. That's what people in the East are like. Once you get West of the Sault, bluntness is the mode of communication. Let 'er rip! Call a spade a shovel and a liar a Liberal. I'm so sick of greedy, heartless rich men ruining the province, esp. after criticizing the NDP so badly before (with the help of their corporate-fawning press). Then these same Liberals go and hire former NDP people to try and bail them out of the mess the Libs have sunk the province into! We can't go on this way! The rich and well off must share. We all work hard for our money. If wealth were a measure of how hard one worked, Barbara Amiel and her hubby Lard Conrad Black would be in a homeless shelter and any short order cook or hospital worker would be billionaires. Grayham Bruce would be sleeping under the Burrard Street Bridge. Our unillustrious Prime minister and the headless oopposition would be parked at food banks. Certainly the Wal-Mart Waltons would be paupers, along with Phillip Nike Knight, GW Bushnut and Dork Cheney. It is to be hoped that Mulroney gets a turn at sleeping under a park bench in Victory Square. Evil people deserve evil outcomes.

Welcome to the thirteenth floor Marysue. Please, no running in the halls, (in case you trip over the two union members standing over their brooms) - May I inquire as to which you hate most, big MONEY, or the LIKELY fact that you don't have any?

The Punisher.
PS, inmates are responsible for clearing out any commies or perceived Nazis look-a-likes from under their own beds prior to lights out. Enjoy!

Jean Binette writes:

Dear Bailey - I think you're suffering from grand delusions if you think you can punish The Punisher.

BC Mary - "Oh, gentle intelligent Bailey ... the lessons you teach, the hearts you gladden, are legion."