Bit tough to flesh out that story, eh Tom? Start out with a bit of fluff about two-tier travel (this is something new?) then pad it with web site shortcomings, Hanh's resume, privatization, the reservation rip-off, the ILO's bitching, the workers' lapel buttons and, finally, the sophomoric editorial page-ese "rogue regime" characterization. One recognizes the need to pander modestly to the Fed, but a rehashed mish-mash like this does nothing for the Tyee's claim to journalistic integrity .

Dear bud carlos; Please point to the Fed-pandering. I read what you read, and I didn't see it.

One recognizes the urge to be arrogantly dismissive of those who don't agree with you, but a sophomoric characterization of the points chosen for a short op-ed piece says nothing for your own intellectual integrity. Try to keep some grip on the realities. Please.

The lack of transperancy is troubling, if these deals are so great why don't they want them public?

Sorry, Bailey--that's Fed as in "B.C. Fed"--e.g., Liberals approach to workers rights bringing forth the wrath of the ILO, etc. Perhaps I shouldn't assume the Fed funds the Tyee. Such an assumption, if in error, may well do little, as you say, for my intellectual integrity.

The link between two-tier travel, privatization, and monopoly is significant bud. Private monopolies by nature are inefficient when one considers social welfare. When a monopoly is left to its own devices, it's profit maximizing strategy is one of less production (through the inefficient use of resources) and higher prices. I think an exclusive lounge has absolutely nothing to do with market demand. It's a reallocation of resources aimed at raising revenue. It's far more than just a neat idea, it's just part of bc ferries' "privatization of a public good" restructuring.

Another great piece, Tom Sandborn. This article is on much more than the two-tier system. It shows once again how the power of the citizens of this province, both as taxpayers and as workers, and yes, even as residents of this province, has once again been given away to powers outside of BC. The power to control our own assets and determine our own rights has also been once again sold off to outside interests.

Self-determination for our province has been almost wiped out by the choices the present government has made.

The last paragraph of Sandborn's article says it all. Few of us are privy to the real details involving the quasi-privatization of BC Ferrries now, and in the future, due to the Coastal Ferry Act's exemptions concerning freedom of information and accountability, we will know even less.

I'd be a bit more annoyed about the "2-tier" issue if BC Ferries hadn't already been doing it for years. I clearly remember my grandparents getting a stateroom when I was a little kid so my baby sister and I would stay corralled and not annoy other passengers (and so they wouldn't have to chase after us). They paid extra for it, and this was 22 years ago. You can still get staterooms - I think it's $25, and I don't see people complaining about this being "elitist". Same with the Pacific buffet lounge. The quiet lounge is just a similar idea (and a good one...I would love a comfortable quiet space on the usually insane ferries instead of having to try to sleep in my car). As for reserved boarding, I've been riding the ferries for nearly 30 years, and it's a fantastic idea. If I'm going over for a business meeting, event, a family wedding/emergency, or just need to make a particular ferry, I will happily pay $15 to ensure that I make the ferry. It's saved my ass from hours in the parking lot more than once on busy weekends. And it doesn't limit people's access to the ferry system - if you need to get across badly enough, you can walk on, take the Pacific Coach lines bus (which I've done frequently), or catch a ride with somebody else.

Whoops, damn...that was my "no-name" post above.

What's all the fuss about? This type of pricing for ship fares is nothing new. Ocean liners a century ago offered different fares - steerage, regular class, first class and you chose and paid for the type of amenities you wanted - think Titanic. Today cruise lines with ships departing from Vancouver do the same thing. As BC Ferries people point out in the article, it's just meeting the needs of their customers.

Perhaps the solution is to offer a discounted steerage fare to meet the needs of grumbling, socialist misanthropes who want to relive the class struggle of 19th century Britain.

BC Ferries aren't ocean liners, they're public transportation, just like Translink or BC Transit.

I realize this is a shock for the transit-bashing gas-guzzling SUV crowd, but sorry, no one should be boarding feeling they're entitled to segregate themselves from other travellers, just like you can't segregate yourself on the bus without a good set of headphones.,p>

Thanks for the bus analogy bear604. We all have a certain degree of choice, whether to take the bus, or travel in the comfort of our own vehicles. Yes, there are people who can not afford to own and maintain a vehicle - does that mean nobody should be allowed to own vehicles? (Somehow I think you'd probably say yes to that.) But even in the population of people who can afford a vehicle, there are those who choose to take the bus anyway.The BC Ferries are not like buses, they are like roads. Those who can afford to, should be able to choose whether or not to use the lounges during their travel. There will also be those who can afford to pay the $7 admission and will choose not to. And there will be those who can't afford the $7 - they are not being denied travel on the "road" - however their situation dictates that they do have to travel as they would on the bus - with a good pair of headphones.And incidentally, I'm one of those who can't afford a car at this point in time. I don't begrudge anyone else their vehicles though. Same for the ferry lounge.

I referred to them as ships. Most of the BC Ferries fleet would be correctly classified as ships. They do indeed go on the ocean, which the dictionary defines as "the immense salt water body covering more than 70% of the earth's surface". Can't miss it, go to Kitsilano Beach and head north.

As far as public transportation goes you can find different levels of service on trains, airplanes, even cars (taxis versus limos at YVR).

The issue is one of perceived class discrimination. I don't see how it is worth getting one's knickers in a twist.

All for now, gotta go gas up the HUMMER.

I referred to them as ships. Most of the BC Ferries fleet would be correctly classified as ships. They do indeed go on the ocean, which the dictionary defines as "the immense salt water body covering more than 70% of the earth's surface". Can't miss it, go to Kitsilano Beach and head north.

As far as public transportation goes you can find different levels of service on trains, airplanes, even cars (taxis versus limos at YVR).

The issue is one of perceived class discrimination. I don't see how it is worth getting one's knickers in a twist.

All for now, gotta go gas up the HUMMER.

Jennifer - should one's right to own a vehicle trump the rights of others to affordable transportation, especially when the true costs of owning a vehicle, particularly road construction, aren't borne out equitably?

Bear old buddy, it's time to some out of that cave and take a look around! Whether we have cars or not is a decision that was made a long time ago. It is a matter of individual choice, and of course, what one can afford, as Jennifer points out.

But cheaper gas for the ol' HUMMER, I could go for that!

I feel a lecture coming on. For gosh sakes, if you have a point -- state it -- and flock off. But if you bad-mouth the writer of an article, if you attack another poster, if you bitch and complain AND USE BIG DUMB LETTERS!!! you've created a large neon sign labeling yourself as both inept and a Loser.

It's fair to assume that every author who spends hours polishing a Tyee story is trying to tell us something constructive. So, for cryin' out loud, shut up and listen ... then respond. Constructively. There. I'm done.

And I'm looking forward to your new comments.

I live in an area dependent on ferries for that very unglamourous reason, bear604, mentioned...public transportation. Big meeting here lately with Mr. Hahn. Much citizen anger, many questions asked. Fears were expressed that citizens would be held hostage by all-out privatization and ever increasing fares. The needs expressed by these "real" customers were ones about assurances that our ferries would be safe, well-maintained, and have well-trained crews.

Strange as it may seem, not one question was asked about the kind of lattes that would be served ... and not one mention of pastries. Shocking!

$7 ?? That's not bad. I'd pay that so as to not have to put up with screaming kids around me- unless, of course, they are paying that too (oh, I can imagine the reaction I'm going to get from this comment... haha; nevermind, I'm baiting you).

As far as ones "right to own a vehicle"- that is pretty relative. I own a car but it cost me $1200. If I'm running low on cash for the week I simply don't drive for a few days. I really probably don't fork out THAT much more for my vehicle than someone who pays for public transit on a regular basis. The environmental factor is the only thing I should pay a tax for over and above those who don't drive.

The problem with rightwingers on this thread is that they confuse twitticisms with witticisms...stay tuned for a moodie susanah redux chapter...and "phil of it," wouldn't neo-con "misanthropes that want to revive the class struggles of thre nineteenth century" be a tad more accurate? Those of us that are truly smart find those of you that merely think they're smart incredibly tiresome. The Pacific Buffet, which most people can't afford is already good enough to be a upper tier lounge for BC's pampered wealthy and their monstrously tainted tax cut that has brought us the "golden" showers from a great height for four years, with the promise of ten years more of the same drenching, should BCers be imbecilic enough to reelect a government that plays unending "Bucky," to the fraser institute's champion, gordon backstabber, aka, "Captain America," in an economy which lost 22,600 full time decent paying jobs last year...but you're STILL ok, right, phil? so far, anyway...

To all of you that think hardcore socialism is so great move to Cuba. There are no classes there. Good Luck, just make sure you don’t get killed when you voice your opinion.

TYEE! What a disappointment! I have to agree with Bud Carlos. Please avoid the re-hash. The first time this story was on your site, it wasn't worth it, but twice? egad. http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/current/LuxuryClassBCFerries.htm I n addition to Bud's critique, I have to ask, Aside from the two-tier lounges and reservation system (years old) what are the other examples of privalege and classism that we will be dealt? Wasn't that the point of the story? I'm sure someone needs to keep their eye on changes and any related impacts at BC Ferries, but this isn't cuttin it.

So once again something about ferries and no mention of the special status given to those who own a credit card. Did everyone ignore what I said when this tpic last came up ? The Tyee talks about the controversy but no mention of people getting screwed because they have no credit card. This is the real discrimination being pushed on people that really do have to wrok for a living. Does anyone give a shit ? Or do you all just have a credit card that gives you special status to avoid the line ups ? And you all bitch about some guy paying $7 bucks for a leather seat as if that is the real problem. Your all hypocritcs and don't give a shit about people who work real jobs.

Ah there are classes in Cuba,by the way Castro hisself lives in a hacienda that a famous family [fanjul] that owned the biggest sugar plantation operation in Cuba pre revolution,this family donates to Jeb Bush and George and father very handsomely to keep the sugar embargo on Cuba,why? because this family has the largest sugar op in dominican republic and florida.Jut a side bar sorry about this couldn't help it. IF the owner of the Ferries thinks this extra charge service will bring in revenue,will it mean lower prices for us guys in steerage or higher management compensation packages,hmmmm?

To Rob. Cuba does not have socialism it's communism. You probably think too that, all private outfits are by definition always efficient and any government one is inefficient. Good luck to you.

You people don't get it . It's not about the 7 bucks or the special lounges. It's about a supposedly private company getting preferential treatment.If the Coastal Ferry Act trumps the Auditor General,the Labour Relations Code, the Ombudsman and Freedom of Information laws, one should conclude that yes , that is preferential treatment for a company that was once a Crown asset.If it's all done for the sole purpose of selling off the assets of BCFerries, as a citizen I would be rather offended by all the need for mystery.

A little diversion - two pieces about "Coulter on Canada" 02/09/05 go to www.whatreallyhappened.com Tucker Carlson on it as well , pretty funny

If people want socialism in BC and Canada they just need to vote for the socialist party (the NDP) at election time and educate their freinds and family to do the same thing. There is no need to move to a forign country to participate in a political tradition that has a long and honourable history in this one.

For all those who love to spout off the old "if you don't like it, move to Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea, etc." If you don't like the way things are done in Canada, i.e. we're just not free market enuff for ya... Move to the United States of America!

Y'all denigrate the "hard-core socialists" like you've the answer in neo-con oligarchy, but Canada doesn't work that way either. It's a mixed economy, we yell at each other, we debate, and in the end, hopefully, some balance of public good and private opportunity is reached.

Cliches are cliches generally because they are true. And the cliche that our society will be judged by the way we treat our poorest and weakest is one of the true-est.

Lose the greed, stop worrying about whether someone hungrier than you took a nibble of your piece of pie and maybe that knot in your stomach that makes you feel sick and angry will go away.

Why is it that we teach our kids sharing is good, but seeming adults hoard all that is theirs like a three yr old with too much Lego?

Sorry for the threadjack, but I think some folks need a reality-check.

Please just a basic no frills low cost ferry service. Please note the Washington ferry that runs to Anacortes from Sidney. Businesses like the Subway in Sidney should be really upset with the competition that is now going to come from the mini malls at the major terminals. The fee paid to Mr. Crill the Commisioner and his assistant is another total waste of bucks..

phillster - 'what one can afford': If the true cost of road construction and environmental impacts was factored into the price of a car rather than borne out by all taxpayers, how affordable would that car be?

fi - by 'environmental factor' do you mean air pollution? Damage to the environment caused by road construction? The further expropriation of more land for road construction?

The 'individual choice' argument has been used in this thread repeatedly, and I sense a relativisim that all individual choices are supposed to valid.

However, if individuals want a sustainable, environmentally-friendly public transportation system, and this choice is by no means apparent, what does that say about the validity of the 'choice' argument?

I agree with LG. Tom wrote about a lot of concerns other than, and more important than, private lounges, so why is this the main focus of debate? As to the person who commented on state rooms. I don't remember there being staterooms for at least 30 years on any of the ferry runs I use (Langdale and Nanaimo)?! Where are these staterooms?

Anne, this was on the Tsawassen-Swartz Bay run. I believe they still have them on the super ferries, but I may be wrong - I haven't looked recently (since I usually sleep through the trip), and I haven't taken the Langdale or Nanaimo run in several years. In a perfect world, the ferries would be classed as a part of the highway system and would be "free" (e.g., paid for via gas taxes/highway and infrastructure funds), like the Kootenay lake ferry, especially on the smaller runs where they can't reasonably expect to cover operating costs through fares. If they were to funnel the extra money from tourist dollars and "elitist" features on the big runs back into the smaller runs, that might be a more workable solution. I do agree entirely that the ferry company should not be a private for-profit organization. I will also say that if you are holding out the Washington ferry as an example, that's pretty damned scary...I prefer to take a ship that is actually well maintained and clean!

Well, Haun be looking for a new job after May. Of course, I'm sure he'll return to the US with a lot of taxpayers money via a nice little package signed by Campbell etal. And, if you don't think we'll have a new gov't in May, check out what they just did to muzzle the NDP in the legislature this afternoon! Honestly, there isn't a single brain among them.

Response to Bear604 - I agree with you that were all the costs taken into consideration, and car owners had to pay the full price, very few would be able to drive a car. This is true for most types of industrial activity as well. I believe the economic term is "true economic cost". This situation is not likely to change anywhere, anytime soon, particularly for cars, in my opinion.

When it comes to choice,my main beef is with social engineering for the "good of us all". And we all have made bad choices (smoking, booze, need I go on?). But we live in a free society and they are our choices to make. If someone wants to pay $7 more for a ferry ride, why the heck not? Frankly, I resent Gordo telling me to eat my vegetables just as much as I resent someone telling me whether I should drive a vehicle and what kind, or whether to use caps in a post or not. I love the freedoms that we have in this country (Canada) and respect the sacrifices made to ensure our rights.

I respect other's rights to free speech, but feel free to disagree, and sometimes to yank someones' chain, particularly if they sound pompous or self-righteous.

All for now.

Lg makes a very good point about governmental preferential treatment to a supposed private company. Philster, if you love the freedoms of this country, then you should appreciate that that is what Tom's article is really all about. Those very Canadian freedoms you refer to, the right to question and the right to expect accountability are being jeopardized by the secretive, controlling, heavy hand of The Coastal Ferry Act.

cantbelievemyears: Nothing surprises me in that legislature anymore! That they would tamper with question period is a new all-time low. I guess having the grand sum of "three" Opposition members to deal with now, is just too much for their seventy-odd members to handle. Think any of the media, those that feign interest in democracy or freedom of speech will report this? If the past is any indicator... not likely. Sorry for diverting off topic for a moment.

And I'm just pissed off that taking the ferries become more complex. Rather than take a ticket and pay for parking after I have used the ferries as a walk on passenger, now I have to be keenly aware about when I have to return. It places one on edge, you know. Then, when I have to pay a dollar just to pick a friend up at the terminal, I nearly become homicidal. Let's face it folks, the BC Liberals are screwing up the province. Because I can't stand their policies, that doesn't make me socialist. I cannot stand their policies because they are allowing a privileged few to rip off BC. So to all you jerks who dance to the neo-conservative drum, so south of the 49th. You'll be among friends down there.

The Liberals plan is to spend 2 BILLION tax dollars in highway upgrades in and around Olympic town by 2010. None of this is expected to be surcharged to the users of these highways. Why the hell not? The ferry users are asked to pay more every year, even though it is part of our highway system. I'm sick of government decisions always centered around the lower mainland.

Bear- all that you mentioned

Don't even get me started on the ferry parking - thank you, Im(possible)Park! On a tangent...Has anyone heard about Falcon's new plan to widen Hwy 1 to *8* lanes from 200th to McGill???? Now there's a brilliant idea...let's dump even more traffic into the city instead of getting commuters off the damn roads so commercial traffic isn't choked off. Larry Campbell suggested running a commuter train from Vancouver to Chilliwack, but of course that was poo-poohed as "impractical". Right. ch...I totally agree with your post - the rest of the province is very much ignored in terms of highways and infrastructure, especially as they are prettying up for the Olympics. I just hope that interior and northern voters are mad enough to kick the Liberals out of Victoria in May, since so many Liberal candidates were elected by in those ridings.

I assume that the "luxury" tier is a profit-centre which in part underwrites the services provided to all. Can't see what's wrong with that, or even that it is a story, unless you happen to be Pol Pot.

I love the politics of envy that permeates this story. Waaaaaaah, he paid $7.00 and doesn't have to stand in a line, that's not fair waaaaah! $7.00 hardly makes it the thousands that have to be paid to upgrade to first class on most airline flights. Have you never heard of the expression freedom begins with choice? As a consumer I want choice. Some days I may want to stand in line with the proles and other times I do not. Just like sometimes I line up for cafeteria grub and other times I go to the buffet lounge. The overall difference in price in negligible and hardly constitutes the basis for declaring class warfare.

Hey, Steveio, is there some way us "proles" can pay 7 bucks to avoid the company of little prigs like yourself? Rennovations that take away common rsources and space for the benefit of the over priveleged suck...what about peole who can't afford to pay 7 bucks...oh. I forgot, in your world they don't count, my the qualifications formembership in the elite are plummetting as fast as the bc economy under gordon liar....

Oh, look, it's an expense record from David Hahn's latest trip across the strait aboard the Queen of Imminent Privatization. newspaper $1

coffee $1.50

muffin $2.00 getting people to argue about a trivial aspect of the entire operation while bigger issues are ignored... priceless.

reposted, with better line breaks.

----------------

Oh, look, it's an expense record from David Hahn's latest trip across the strait aboard the Queen of Imminent Privatization.

newspaper $1

coffee $1.50

muffin $2.00

getting people to argue about a trivial aspect of the entire operation while bigger issues are ignored... priceless.

"The power to control our own assets and determine our own rights has also been once again sold off to outside interests." says Lynn, nailing it.

Welcome to the new Class War face of hyper-capitalism, spearheaded here by the Neocons, dressed up in drag as Liberals.

My, the Rightist Wingy-Dings do like to pile in here from time to time, with their self-fellating/ cunnilingulating apologetics.

Let them eat cake!

Ohh, I forgot, that's what it's really all about. That's why the class war has been launched in the first place. They resented those trade unionist working-class fingers getting a taste of the icing and spreading it around. Back to steerager class you would-be rebellious pee-ons.

"We'll rule.", these Champions of Capital sneer. "You do as you're told, and be greatful for whatever the hell crumbs we deign to brush from our table."

Keep it up you right-wing fucks. The harder you apply the screws, and the more you wipe your asses with us, the easier you are making it for those of us working to mount our own Class War response. Watch your back. You're coming into focus in our cross-hairs.

...and we'll open up a big ol' can a whoop-ass. YEEEHAAAA!!!

"..and we'll open up a big ol' can a whoop-ass. YEEEHAAAA!!!" LG.

;-)

And I hope we are all aware of the many ferry routs in the BC interior that have no toll. I'm not Saying BC ferries should be free they could cut costs alot by not giving small islands a ferry every hour for a population of maybe 600-1000 people and it is like swimming distance to Vancouver Island. It dosen't make alot of sence to me when you have 2 points across the water making the trip 5 mins but the ferry goes way and hell someplace making the trip 20-30 mins. The southern gulf island route from swarts bay however is a faily long trip if you go on the milk run to saturna but I have seen some ineffective things like 3 ferrys all from swarts bay going to pender and the ferry i'm on a 3 hour tour doesn't have coffee. my needs were not met I need coffee DAMN IT!! and I can only get horrible coffee from a vending machine that might or might not steal your 2 Bucks and yet pender gets a 40min boat trip on a nice ferry with good coffee I can handle the 3 hour trips when I have coffee or at least a hot dog and taking the older boat is better for shorter trips. BC ferries does and allways has given us good service and yes we have those times when the ferry is crazy and if we do have the cash to drive on sometimes you have to wait for the next one. I Have my doubts if this so called "quiet lounge" will help raise revenue. So does that mean the pacific barfette will no longer be around??

A ship of Fools???I think NOT! As David Hahn and his merry band make all these wonderous changes in order to transform BC Ferries into a profit making company, the new collective agreement slid quietly into existence...now the old gravy train(ers) are in middle management and are screwing over the new young employees to the tune of David's fiddle. 1)They hire heaps of young people each spring, just to keep them hoping for a shift all summer...the lucky ones get a few here and there...our EI system takes care of the rest. 2)They screw employees out of their benifits when they are most needed- ie when they are sick or injured 3)The union reps are hopping around with their arms cut off- making deals with these middle management cash grabbers of Hahn's. David Hahn is no fool people- this man has sailed off with the loot before and he will do it again, only here it is our tax dollars and they are been handed to him on a platter by a drunk driver we have no choice but to put up with because - like most democracies these days- the votes go where the Dollars are. As long as we vote with our dollars while disregarding moral values, I guess we have no right to complain......?

Sailing$s...It's called Capitalism. If you know of any better economic systems why don't you tell us of them and show us where they have worked? It's sailing full steam ahead, and you can get on boars or drown in the wake...you choose.

Wouldn't capitalism feature a free market with companies competing to provide the best service for the lowest cost? A former Crown corporation that gladly takes the gravy of profit w/out the competition of a free market is hardly the poster-child for capitalism.

Not to nit pick, but I believe that's "whup-ass..." as in, I whupped him.

Lisforprotofacist, well there's government-regulated capitalism, which we had at least to a greater degree, before neo-liberal pukes took over. Hardly a perfect system, but infinitely better than the facist, neo-conjob darkness into which we are currently sailing full speed ahead. Anyone see or read Terry Southern's The Magic Christian, in which the captain of the boat turns out to be a drunk? And L is not very bright, read your history, capitalism has a history of going through extreme periods of civilian abuse, the robber barons at the turn of the last century, followed by the breaking up of pernicious trusts and cartels, when finally even the most stupid of citizens could no longer ignore the looting of the public good, because, hey, what do you know, this time THEY were the victim, and a monopoly press didn't help save neo-facism then either. Too bad so many better people have to suffer first, for the remarkable stupidity, greed, and short-sightedness of people such as yourself...

The closest capitalism came to having a human and tolerable face was... hombre gets it, was when it was a regulated system, feared communism, and was modified and mitigated to a degree by militant trade unionism. Since that period ended in the late 70s, however, capitalism has evolved more and more backwards, into an increasingly lopsided socio-economic system that serves only the interests of its ruling class well. Capitalists have become the new Kings and Nobles of Europe, only now of the world, circumventing its own democratic systems, and rendering them vacuous.

Capitalism is only "just" tolerable when it is sitting on great riches, their own or other peoples gathered in imperialist adventures, as is now going on in Iraq-, and fearful enough of its own working class, and its militancy, that it feels compelled to share it, at least somewhat with them. Then its underlying principle of obsessive greed is at least shared, more or less, by everyone, as became the case. Capitalism and poverty, as is its evolving new face, quickly becomes intolerable however, along with its strident fascistic tendencies.

The reality always is, however, that "the economy", where we interface with nature for our sustainance, is a "social" creation in which virtually all participate at a number of different levels, and are "collectively" the economy's real creators, not "special individuals" acting in isolation on their own, serving only their own interests, and doing it by themselves.

Hence, regardless of whether an example does or does not exist anywhere in the current world, for everything has a starting point like capitalism in the events leading to and around the English Civil War of the 1600s, there is a need beginning to be broadly felt, for democratizing the current capitalist run economy, and making it amenable to the control of workers/ who are also consumers, communities, and NGO interest groups, such as environmental interests etc.

The question of whether a democratized economy, in which new interests are brought into having a full say and participation in its operation, management and strategic planning, then still is a capitalist social system of a type or not, or something entirely different, as in a qualitatively new way, is something we can debate. (My own view is, that society is then in the beginning stages of become something qualitatively new, as capitalism has evolved itself out of slavery and feudalism since its more or less formal founding in the English Civil War times, and the furnace fires of the subsequent Industrial Revolution, and the capitalist re-organization of feudal society. The key being, the bringing to it of a new level of democratization, and being brought under control, and made more responsive to broader social interests than individual capitalist greed, especially at the level of the big corporations.)

Current capitalism sucks. Time to move on and out of the narrow confines of the box/coffin in which it has the rest of us all consigned. It has become suicidally harmful to our own interests, and those of the natural world, within which limits of sustainabilty we need to function.

Current Capitalism is terminally diseased, precisely in those parts of the world where it has achieved its highest levels of development, and now begun to turn in on itself and eat its own. It has become like the bright red apple of summer, now turning punky and rotten at its core, (consider your inner cities) having passed its peak period of development.

Which should answer the inane question of LisforFascist.

And who is most assisting this process in that, of course, is capitalism itself and its leading fascist edge, around the Neocon Libs. They are increasingly making capitalism intolerable for the vast majority of people.

Keep up the good work, you goofs. And you thought the NDP were your greatest threat. Ha! They're just defanged pussycats. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

well said Coyote; however, i would say that the economic system that we're currently living through cannot even be labelled capitalism (in the same way that the soviet era economic system could hardly be labelled socialism). anyway, poor lisforfascist - you see, what's going on here with bc ferries is NOT capitalism. capitalism, in theory, is supposed to produce what people want at an efficient level. why you hear us lefty whinners complain that capitalism doesn't work so often is because capitalism is not simply competitive markets. if capitalism were to actually exist, there would be perfect competition, produce all the things that we love, equitably and effiecient. however, capitalism doesn't exist because there are numerous sources of market failure. one source is that private markets cannot produce public goods - transportion systems being a public good. when the neocons took ferries out of the public realm and made it private, they created a monopoly (of course it was a monopoly as a crown corp., but a natural monopoly, which is different). monopolist strive to maximize profits, and without competition, the consumer gets screwed. but you'll say that a competitor will enter the market and all will be fine. unfortunately, there will be no competition because one of the features of a monopoly is that new firms cannot enter the market - typically achieved through gov't intervention. and if you think that cap't gordo will allow competition in the ferry service market, then you're more off your rocker than i originally thought.

First, I was wondering if Coyote was the same Coyote as on www.rabble.ca/babble?

As for the ferries, I don't really object to the new semi-private lounge, provided it does not unduly reduce the amount of deckspace available to the rest of the passengers. That's why it's a bit troublesome that no one can show us a plan or sketch outlining it's locations, size, etc. and what it's going to replace. The "lantern" coffee bars at the upper stern?

I am more interested in the new German ferries. I am hoping they will have suitably Teutonic names, such as MV Flensburg, MV Freideriche der Grosse, and MV Otto von Bismark, in order to clearly identify their imported origins to all who may travel on them.

Me thinks many doth protest too much. We can all choose to fly first, second, third class - what the heck is wrong with a lousy $7 charge to get a little peace and quiet on a ferry ride? Surely there's more pressing issues upon which to vent one's spleen. This is all just government-bashing, Liberal-bashing, and bullying. And no I'm not the least bit rich, elitist, or otherwise blindly loyal to any political party. I'd just like a quiet ride to accompany the gorgeous scenery of this place we call home. I can't wait to ride the ferries with these new lounges.

Hello hombre, in answer to your question no there isn't. But if they do set it up I'd be glad to go 50/50 with you on the fee!

"...however, i would say that the economic system that we're currently living through cannot even be labelled capitalism (in the same way that the soviet era economic system could hardly be labelled socialism)." wrote Michael, entirely correctly, in my view.

Capitalism, as in small privately owned shops and "competitive" enterprises in a "free" market, hasn't been the main character of what we continue to call capitalism, for a very long time. What we have is large scale "corporate capitalism", at the level such that a relative few global giants control inordinate supply sources and market share, and are able to circumvent market competition, in fact, through market share control, manipulating supply, and collusion through the elite's old boy global networking systems.

Capitalism, in the context which many folks still like to think of it, is but a historical memory more linked to sentiment than reality. And if you try to get around them or limit their activity with national laws nowadays, global agreements now allow them to even take the nation state and a national public interest to court, and charge "them" with unfair trade practice. Get your heads back in the real world Neocon Sentimentalists and Fantasists.

The capitalism of your dreams has not existed for a very long time. It is able to circumvent even its own very "limited" democratic systems and institutions, which it is still fully to control and monopolize.

Linda, what does the principle of "quietness" have to with money? Do you think a sign that said "Quiet Lounge", no fee charged, would work just as well? Libraries, hospitals etc. don't charge fees for "quiet" and yet amazingly most people behave accordingly. It has nothing to do with money, it can be accomplished without it. There is no need to fall prey to the slick ways of that old charmer, that prime seller of corporate snake oil when he says... that everything, absolutely everything must have a price to be worth anything... and that only money and money alone can make things happen.

"First, I was wondering if Coyote was the same Coyote as on www.rabble.ca/babble?"

Nope. Though coyotes, being prolific breeders, we might be related. :-)

Yes Linda..They all protest too much.They would complain if their ice-cubes were too cold, then bitch 'cause somebody didn't take them out for them. I would far sooner have our privately owned ferry system than a bridge or a tunnel. And the quiet sounds good too.

Lizzy, It's not "our" ferry system anymore. "our" and "privately owned" = oxymoron.

In my experience, the majority of people who get on the ferry head straight to the cafeteria where many of them spend more than $7 a head on food alone. What difference does it make if they do that in the cafeteria or a lounge? There are far more pressing issues than this for people to be concerned about.

In my experience, the majority of people who get on the ferry head straight to the cafeteria where many of them spend more than $7 a head on food alone. What difference does it make if they do that in the cafeteria or a lounge? There are far more pressing issues than this for people to be concerned about.

Two Tier Lounges are not the first example of an Upper Crust and Lower Crust travel. What about the insult of reserving a public service? Nothing picks me worse, I don't care if they pay extra, it is a public service and should be kept that way.

Let me see, I think I have eliminate my bowels on the Feb. 15th, I am going to reserve a public washroom.

The worst french fries anywhere are on the ferries,burgers are cold and the meat within is near to invisible. Bring back the 'burger platter'. Please return to basic ferries and spend the money that is now spent on frills on more ships for better service.

Good posts by coyote, michael others. I read recently that the ferry company building "our" new ferries in Germany is the sole privately owned ship builder in Germany. Gee, why am I not surprised? And, once again, the ferries are already crowded enough, especially on holiday weekends, and taking scant space and resources to increase this crowding for the benefit of those who think nothing of spending an extra seven bucks, on top of the whitespot triple-oozes is simply unfair, and elitist, as is the reservation system. It may come as a surprise to some people but $7 extra is money badly needed for essentials to some families. I wonder if the Lantern Coffee bars on the two spirit ferries ARE going to be what's converted into the "quiet lounges," and if the BC liars are too afraid to announce it before the next election...look for a phoney poll any day now in Crapwest media "showing" the liberals have gained in popular support, and then consider the poll about how Stephen Harper was going to be our prime minister by now, with a majority government. "Hold up your head/And stand your ground/Don't let the bastards get you down..." -Khris Kristopherson. Let's keep fighting.

And, yes, the old ferry french fries WERE better.

Now can we get better fairs yet?

the problem with these lounges is that they are subsidized by all of us. If it is luxury some want, then they can pay for their own ferry and not use our existing ones to cater to their whims.Then the cost may be $500.00 per crossing or so. But hey, it does make some feel special to spend alot on themselves every day.

I repeat, the ferry is part of our highway system and leave it that way.

I think this article is trying really hard to make something sound bad when it simply isn't. Most people I've spoken to who ride the ferries frequently (I'm one) are pleased with the new ideas. I personally don't feel I should have to put up with a less comfortable environment just so we can all be 'equal'. How is the lowest common denominator better for us all? Ferrys are not the same as health care. I think we need to evaluate on a case by case basis whether "two-tier" is as bad a word as some want to think. Maybe we should all pick one average car, home, computer, etc. and make it the only one available to everyone. If one person is willing to sacrifice in one area of expense to allow a greater expense somewhere else where it is his/her priority how is that bad?

For some reason the food on the ferries has always been as hot a topic as the ships themselves, the fares and the schedules. I think it may be an application of the old Parkinson's Law principle that people tend to focus in on the small stuff that they can understand.

Personally, I think the buffets on the Spirit Class are good, but not great. And I like the new White Spot burgers and fries, they are an improvement over the older model. But the ferries needs to do more in terms of nutrition, calories, fat, "heart-smart" and "weight-watcher" choices. Still, BC Ferries is doing better in the food service area that either Air Canada or West Jet, ... but then that's not saying much!

This article is about much more than just the adding of luxury items to the ferries. Move past that.

As both Coyote and Michael articulated, the idea of the existence of a free market (eg. Coyote's reference to "the capitalism of your dreams") is just a mirage now. You are dealing with a whole different kind of corporate phantom, much more potent as it's invisible powers are firmly entrenched in the exemptions that Sanborn mentions above - exemptions from Freedom of Information , the Omsbudsman, and the Auditor-Generals oversight. Along with this comes the dictatorial trumping power of the ferry commissioner, who seems to be subject to no court and therefore not accountable.

The privileged powers given by this government to businesses and corporations at the expense of the democratic rights and freedoms of the people of this province are evident in both the Coastal Ferry Act and the Special Projects Act. Their very existence should be waving a red flag at you that this is no longer our ferry system or our province. Other forces both literally and metaphorically, are controlling the ship now. Snooze away in your quiet lounge at your own risk.

"This article is about much more than just the adding of luxury items to the ferries. Move past that." wrote Lynn.

An excellent piece, Lynn. And the point missed, or chosen to be ingnored, by those here more anxious to belittle concerns about strategic directions being taken by "the system", and to make their apologetics for the Neocon Libs.Evidence, again, that when it comes to these Right Wingy Dings, there are none so blind as those who will not see. They would have you be more focussed on that $7 per se, than what it represents and is a part of, and what has happened "again" to yet another "public asset", alienated from its real, if gullible owners, in another corporate/government "BC Rail style" privatization sleight of hand. They are focussed on the $7, and you miss the multi-billion dollar prize, and the real threats to democracy posed by The New Capitalism.

Which yet again, in the perversity of my own view of current economics and politics, is actually okay, at one level. (At least, there appears nothing we can immediately do about it.) The accumulative effect of everything such as these that is happening right now, and what is still out there, working its way through the pipe of the New Capitalist ideology and practice regime, is all part of what has to occur to change social, economic and political reality enough, that the way to the future is finally opened up. They really are their own grave-diggers.

Though more far-sighted folks need to begin to prepare themselves now, through organization and ideological/politcal education, that upon the emergence of the newly created opportunity that is near certain to arise, barring some sudden enlightening revelation to our Neocon true believers and a 180 degree change of direction, which I don't think is actually even possible, (the die is cast and the historical moment already lost for capitalism), that we can finally put them into their grave, and throw the sod oe'r.

In the some four hundred years of capitalist history, many have tried and failed. Though we just need to get it right once. (The key to which, I think, is the actual "opportunity" being there, which they always sooner or later create, and create again, in their greed. The "opportunity" though, which also has to include "the popular level of understanding and organization.)

[Worth some note here, Rome lasted from about 509 BC, until the last Emperor, Romulus Augustulus in 476 AD-, almost a thousand years. Feudalism which gradually emerged in Europe our of the conditions of the collapse of Rome, survived (at least in England) until it was abolished by statute in 1666, as one of the outcomes of the English Civil War-, though clung on elsewere for longer, until the rising tide of Capitalism simply overwhelmed it everywhere. Capitalism too could perhaps last a thousand or more years as well, at least hypothetically,I suppose-, unless one accepts that the pace of social change has quickened along with that of technological change. Though much actually depends as well, on where people's heads are at, or arrive at, and how much a "sufficient mass" has its shit sufficiently together.:-]

Bud you can't be ordering the same White Spot fries and burgers that I did a week ago on the ferry from Horseshoe Bay. They were not too good, maybe you like large, dark brown and cold fries, I sure don't..Bob

Unless I missed something the people who pay the extra $7 (and/or the extra $15 for a reservation) arrive at their destination at the same time as everyone else - give or take a few minutes. To my way of thinking that ought to be a bonus for everyone else in the sense that the extra dollars will, over time, tend to subsidize the bottom line for those of us who chose not (or can't afford to pay) the extra. I don't think letting folks who think they 'need' these perks pay something extra for them is a mistake as long as it tends to hold costs down for everyone else. In fact, I think it'd be a great idea to charge a penalty if you want to board the ferry at the wheel of an SUV too.
As long as there are people around who think that paying extra to cross the Strait of Georgia in the questionable comfort of a private lounge is a good idea - I'm all in favour of charging them as much as the traffic will bear for the 'privilege' of doing so.

I think that it's too easy to criticise anybody who tries to improve the system, and I don't see any alternatives being posed other than the staus-quo. After ten years of very un-neo-con governance BC Ferries was in a poor state. Unreliable, uncomfortable, and unimproving. Is there much argument on that point? I don't know whether in the end treating BC Ferries as a semi-private company is going to work out, but I'm willing to give it a chance. At least they are responding to customers' needs, something that they seemed ignorant of before.

Many critics of the change in governance of BC Ferries refer to the lack of FOI applicability. Is that so big a deal really? If they agreed to come under those rules what is it that you think you'd find? It isn't as if their operations are secret. We can see the ferries, we can see their condition, we can see the schedules, the fares; when they change something, it's obvious. What part of their operation do we need to see into that we don't already?

Yup. It's a real big deal, Brad. The Corporation was made private, but the sole shareholder is the Crown in BC. It is now secret, it's unaccountable, it's untrustworthy, but we're still on the hook for it. That's undemocratic as hell. Sorry for the cliche` but it's taxation without representation.

How do you think all those fancy two dollar teabags would look floating in Horseshoe Bay?

As long as their are no FastCats around to foul up their engines, the tea bags would probably be an improvement ;-)

At least the fast cats created good jobs, brad. The BC liars lost 22,600 fulltime well paying jobs last year...if you're Brad Melanson, whose elititist drool I frequently read on deliberately rightwing stacked Canwest sound-off posts I'd love to debate your butt right into the ground...course it would take some COURAGE on your part...heh, heh.

Go get 'em, Hombre!

I'm so darn tired of hearing bad things about those beautiful fast cats.

After the relentless, phony CanWest attacks, the Campbell government couldn't very well use those ferries, now, could they?? And prospective buyers were frightened off -- not by the fast cats' performance but by the phony black reputations. So the ships were almost given away as gifts.

Meantime, Toronto needed a fast cat ferry exactly like ours. So they bought one from Australia.

Is this smart? Does this help B.C.? Heck, no. But still there are jerks like Brad who must be haunted by the truth, and who wish to keep a cruel lie alive.

Thanks, Red roses. I'm waitin' brad...how do you think you're gonnna get back down that hill...?

Cf the film "Hombre," starring Paul Newman, from the Elmore Leonard book...

I really must disagree with Brad's assertion that, "After ten years of very un-neo-con governance BC Ferries was in a poor state. Unreliable, uncomfortable, and unimproving." That simply is not the case. The Ferry service was continuing to build and improve it ships and terminals throughout the 1990s. After all, it was the NDP that brought in the White Spot burgers, ... and I distinctly recall hearing one right wing bureaucrat in Victoria spreading the ominous rumour that White Spot was chosen by the NDP Govt because it was unionized! Admittedly, the decision not to utilize the Pacificats once built is a curious one, for which Paul Ramsey and Joy MacPhail have more to answer for than Glen Clark, but the fact remains that the S-Class super-ferries were built during the NDP's term too, even if they were originally ordered under Vander Zalm and Johnston

.

Brad goes on to say "Many critics of the change in governance of BC Ferries refer to the lack of FOI applicability. Is that so big a deal really?" I think its a very big deal, and if you don't believe me, look at the Liberal Sponsorship Scandal and other Liberal hoodwinks in Ottawa. What's to prevent the BC Liberals from following their Master's lead? Hell, the other day on the ferries I picked up a snappy looking brochure that purported to be a complete ferry system schedule. Neat, I thought, ... until I realized that David Hahn and Company had ordered this schedule to be printed without any fare information, ... kind of like some upscale restuarant. Perhaps Hahn will be in line for a severance payment similar to Bob Smith's when Premier Carole James asks him to return to the private sector. They should deduct from his settlement the extra costs of his new super-terminal at Tswassen. Tell me Brad, why was the old terminal, barely ten years old, torn down instead of simply being expanded?

Good comments, Budd Campbell, and yes the renovations at Tsawassen were nothing more than a damned nuisance, with minimal improvements for the outrageous cost and inconvenience. To paraphrase the nauseous, ubiguitous departure area posters with the maniacally grinning Stepford people glaring at passengers everywhere: "You gave us your opinion and we...laughed in your face."

Brad, anyone that thinks such democratic essentials as FOI requests are unnneccesary does not deserve to live in a democracy...

And I bet the two forward lounges, one already the Lantern Coffee Bar, are what's going to become the new seven dollar, user-fee, two-tier lounge...if the BC backstabbers get reelected.