The market for B.C. mills that were selling treated power poles to Alberta dried up when Alberta privatized their Hydro, as poles now are replaced only after falling down.

Seems Alberta is the voice of the West. Guess that is why Harper wants more Albertans in the Senate and was cheering for the Toronto Argos in the Grey Cup.

Hi Will; As an old friend of the late Anita Tozer, I can tell you that WAC is rolling over in his grave over the incompetence of GCampbell & Company in selling out the heart and soul of his creation. He knew that for BC it was of utmost importance that we, the taxpayers of BC, had control over the essential infrastructure development of the province. I expect we will hear Campbell's lapdog, Gary Collins to contradict it. Regards

The Ministry of Education recently announced new money for textbooks, $10 million I believe. Interestingly enough, money is only available to districts on the basis that the districts (which have little or no money) match the expenditures. Guess where the texts must be purchased? An Alberta institution. Is there a pattern here? How pathetic.

I can't figure out the writer's point. So what? Waco or not, Albertans are Canadians. (it is entirely possible the Premier deliberately missed the legislature opening in order to avoid having to comment on Minister Coleman's proposed and long overdue anti-drunk driving laws)

Albertans trying to take over B.C.? You'd think it would work better the other way around, given the number of British Columbians that have fled for the warmer economic climes of Alberta in the last few years. A fascinating argument, though. Makes it sound like B.C. would naturally be a socialist paradise if only those damn interlopers from "Back East" would just keep their noses out. We don't have any conservatives in B.C. -- they're all foreigners...

This is the subject that many former Socreds and New Democrats do agree upon. As the poster above puts it- Wac Bennett is surely rolling in his grave. Campbell is surely giving away our control and sovereignity over our natural resources and infrastructure: BC Rail, BC Hydro, Raw Log exports, etc,etc,etc.

Tim, I bounce between Liberal and small 'c' conservatism. I guess I would fit 'your' definition of Socialist, as the Campbell, Klein and Harper party's definition of Socialism starts at small 'c' conservative and everything left. I'd love to see someone put out a book on Campbell's unethical but brilliant rise to power, by turning what was supposed to be a middle of the road party into something else. He could have tried revitalizing the Socred party, however he was aware the move to the 'extreme' right would be easier with the NDP in opposition.

Why do rates of auto insurance are not penalizing driver who are demonstrably known to be risky not paying the rates as high as other metro areas say with same density? Rates as high as fifteen thou a year are not incomprehensible in other jurisdictions, are the Liberal provincial actually persuading motorists to vote to keepICBC with the risk pool being diluted with good drivers? It seems to me an uneducated oaf that it may be possible to buy votes with tax general revenue favouring those most likely to vote. What a concept? Eh , I think this has been done before.

Hey everybody - Jean Binette is back!! Watch for the neo-con viewpoint try to pounce again.....Hi Jean

Yes, it would be nice to see different viewpoints on here rather than having the "left" debating with mostly fellow Lefties. The National Post 'Sound Off' appears to have close to a 50/50 split.

Hi ... Hi

Having neo-con, old con, liberal and socialist points of view here is a good thing as long as no one is bringing weapons.

What exactly is a "neo-con"? I can't stand our pal Ralph, (of course I suppose he's an old con)

So are we really suggesting that our province is better of with the Premier listening to David Schreck instead of Jim Dinning ? Is Dinning having to sit back and host a "how wonderful is me" website and looking for piecemeal work from CKNW and whoever else comes crawling forward ?

Incorrect analogy, Mr. Lahey, since David Schreck is not an Albertan and that's the point of this article, the proliferation of Albertans in positions of influence in BC. But then this is a premier that is willing to give away so much of our province, our power to others, at the expense of Britsh Columbia. It's a really interesting psychological - political portrait isn't it? The real question is has Gordon Campbell been faithful to BC?

I can't imagine anyone paying attention to Mr. Schreck.

I read the Alberta conservatives as being quite neo-conservative, and am now hearing that the emerging Alliance party there is even farther to the right. I'm curious to know how that is??? religion play a part or?

I'm sure there are just as many religious zealots right here in the Fraser Valley for us to worry about. I'm curious to know if neo-conservatives are the same as neo-cons, and are Alliance party types neo-neo conservatives or what? Are trulibs trulibs. On the other hand who would care?

Now wonder that $10 million for new textbooks must be bought from Alberta. Guess where the deputy minister for Education got recruited from? Edmonton! I hear that is in Alberta. Funny how so many Albertans are so eager to come to BC. I wonder why. Brrrrrrr. Oh ya ... no one here can even come close to the analysis provided by Schreck. Why wouldn't anyone pay attention to him? I guess because he is so apt at pointing out the BC Liberal's lies with their own accounting and statistics. But I guess he has the advantage ... he's an economist and Gary Collins, the Finance Minister, knows how to fly airplanes.

Jean, Yes neo-cons is short for neoconservative. The term neo-conservative was started in the U.S. to describe a small branch of socioeconomic and political thinkers. Historicaly, there roots are associated with the Ronald Reagan administration as a response to a growing Liberal sentiment in the country. Bush 2 is a strong Reaganite and consequentialy has adopted this new conservatism. Some of their philosophies include a much more aggressive brand of American foreign policy and ironicaly for (R)epublicans, they have less commitment to fiscal prudence, which may be the reason for the "neo" meaning "new" tag. If you want to check out some neoconservative websites you should look at the Project for the New American Century, the Heritage Foundation or the American Enterprise Institute. Pentagon planner Paul Wolfowitz seems to be one of the faces of neo-conservatism in the US. There is debate among conservatives in the US as to whether-or-not (neo-new)conservatism is a valid stance. There is no debate in my mind however that the policies created by this philosophy exist in a realm at the extreme right of conservatism.

It is so very demeaning to the collective self-esteem of British Columbians when our Premier bypasses any consideration for their wants and needs; by opting to bring in others from out of Province for the purpose of advising on the direction our Province should take in the future. McMartin has been doing the digging and reporting that should have been happening by the mainstream media. Vaughan Palmer has done some good work with the Sun, however he seems to have set a limit on how far he will go after the Liberals. He did get moved off the Editorial page. It goes without saying that if the NDP were in power and they followed Campbell's lead on this, British Columbians would be well aware of it.

Here is the question...If Schreck is such an economic genius how com he is un-employable in the private sector aka the "real world" ? Even Clarke found a real job, and Harcourt at least an appointment. Hell even our "new" Federal health minister (and former premier) brings home a steady paycheck. Are we seriously to believe that some loser who does radio piece meal and hosts a wishful thinking website is a guru ? Let's see Schreck get a real job.

Binette: If you don't get paid, and you get so little in donations, where do you get the money to eat? ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Shreck- Freedom 55 :) There are some benefits of advanced middle age although, like many others have experienced, forced retirement came a little early. See http://www.StrategicThoughts.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Binette - You should count your lucky stars. Many other British Columbian's will be lucky if they reach "freedom 75" and can afford an open spot on the soup line. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Shreck - The way the Campbell government is going many such folks will die from neglect before reaching advanced old age. See http://www.StrategicThoughts.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Binette - They could only hope. I can't see how the Campbell government caused the current crises though because the neglect occurred in the past, except of course for the lucky ones who were guiding government. Do you need money because you can't afford to pay the rent, or is there some other reason? ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Shreck - I paid off my mortgage many years ago, but having noticed the success of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation in asking for money, I thought I’d also give people an opportunity to help offset some of the costs of researching, writing and publishing my website ........

Norman Spector asks for a donation at his site too and he doesn't even have a domain name.

An apt and timely article. A good sidebar might be that bc has imported not ONLY alberta's fiscal incopetence (oil revenues do NOT count as fiscal competence) but also it's social policies, or even worse: the social policies of ROD LOVE.

A few months before black thursday, a curious little piece ran in canwest vancouver papers giving rod Love's opinion, that given gordon campbell's huge majority, he need not listen to poverty advocates, women's groups, pay equity groups or ANY other members of civil society, and couild instead run roughshod over all these groups with his own agenda. Within 3 months the legislature convened for BLACK THURSDAY, and the manufactured crisis, created by the 25% UNNCAMPAIGNED UPON and UNNANNOUNCED TAXCUT FOR THE RICH, wass used as an excuse to assault the most vulnerable, to set social justice back 30 years, and to sell off crown corporations that used to keep your taxes low, for a song.

So greivious, in fact, was the mismanagement created by liberal's manufactured THAT TODAY IT WAS ANNOUNCED IN CANWEST MEDIA, that bc, A HAVE-NOT PROVINCE FOR AT LEAST THE FIRST YHREE YEARS OF THE BC LIBERAL'S REIGN IS RECEIVING A RECORD 1.2 BILLION IN EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS. To return ANY of that money to the disadvantaged so visciously asaulted is not in the bc game plan however, for social justice is the very LAST thing the campbell liberals want to restore. NO, instead, gary collins wants to use this money, AVAILABLE BECAUSE OF THE DISASTROUS FAILURE OF BC LIBERAL ECONOMIC POLICY TO PAY DOWN THE DEBT WHICH HAS SO INCREASED UNDER HIS GOVERNMENT'S MISMANAGEMENT. After which, no doubt, another undeserved, unmerited, and indefensible taxcut for the rich will be the order of the day.

Mr. Binette, I thought you had grown weary of being the laughing stock of the tyee, but it seems that such is a drink whose flavor you are beginning to savour. You are fortunate that david shreck even bothered answering your inane, and determinedly ignorant questions. Mr Shreck is also a lawyer, who I believe, still practises. That you profess such contempt for one willing to labor for the public good without reccompense, is merely one more measure of your crass and ignorant materialism. Will you be posting under JUST ONE NAME THIS TIME, or can we expect, as is the case with so many of your inadequate ilk, your repeated dissociation, as before, into SEVERAL RIGHTWING PERSONALITIES, all of them noxious?? Let's face it, you are simply not in david shreck's class, as an intelligence, or, as a human being.

Binette - They could only hope. I can't see how the Campbell government caused the current crises though because the neglect occurred in the past, except of course for the lucky ones who were guiding government. Do you need money because you can't afford to pay the rent, or is there some other reason? ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Shreck - I paid off my mortgage many years ago, but having noticed the success of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation in asking for money, I thought I’d also give people an opportunity to help offset some of the costs of researching, writing and publishing my website. The Campbell government can be faulted for not understanding the BC economy. It was a major falsehood to claim that tax cuts would pay for themselves. It was also a major mistake to abandon or lessen government involvement in the promotion of economic diversification through initiatives such as promoting tourism and encouraging film production. The BC economy has been going through major structural change since the early 1980s. Campbell should focus on the reasons for the change rather than on attacking the NDP. Providing tax handouts to his friends while cutting social services is not a constructive way to deal with economic change. See ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Shreck: "(Wouldn't it be nice if the Taxpayers Federation disclosed their donations?)" ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- Binette - So how do you know they are more successful in asking for money than you? Perhaps there could simply be more people who are interested in what they have to say than are interested in taking the opportunity to pay for what you have to say. What about the long list of MLA's forced into early retirement that were lucky enough to serve the mandatory two terms. Don't they want to want the opportunity to contribute part of their pension money? Give Elizabeth Cull a call, I'm sure she has plenty of bucks left over from the plums. You are lucky indeed to be mortgage free, many others are having to spend their equity. (Would I be correct in assuming that is a government pension you are drawing from?) Things were mostly rosy before 1991 and it seems to me that Campbell is focusing on the problem and the cure. Do you suppose he somehow relishes the idea of starving out senior citizens' and is getting some sort of kick out of it all ? From what I see, the problem really began with the guy in the rumpled brown tweed. ----------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- Shreck - I have no government pension, and I received no severance pay from my government appointments. If things were so rosy before 1991, why was the Social Credit Party destroyed? It would appear that a few folks didn’t share your opinion. The Taxpayers Federation manages to operate several offices employing both national and provincial spokespeople. In the absence of disclose, no one knows whether those substantial expenses are picked up by a lot of small real taxpayers or whether they are funded by a handful of well endowed business interests. One donor with deep pockets could easily confuse some folks into thinking that the organization has broad support. See ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Binette - I think you may be missing the point. Things were about 25 billion rosier in 1991 and it was Vanderzalm that destroyed the Socreds. Whether or not folks shared my opinion or not back then is irrelevant but obviously they were wrong. I have no idea whether the Taxpayers federation gets it's donations from a handful of "well endowed" business interests or not. And as to your speculation of perhaps one donor with deep pockets "confusing some folks", that seems like a stretch. I do remember however that the past government used to squeeze it's donations directly out of the pockets of small taxpayers or bingo players, and I also can remember the names of several of it's members who had no trouble filling their own deep pockets throughout the era. The Chair of ICBC comes to mind. He no doubt has since retired to some island in the sun. (too bad it's not St. Helena). The former-former chair lives on a multi-million dollar West Vancouver waterfront property (not bad digs for a former union secretary). At least most of the current appointees you say are getting handouts are already rich. I'm sorry that you don't get a government pension and didn't receive severance for your years of faithful service but you seem to have done quite well regardless. I'm guessing that you must have been an astute entrepreneur to reach freedom at 55 despite the handicap of receiving no government pension, or in the alternative you were a lucky Nortel investor. Which is of course what happened to many others in the "Party". ( If my graying memory serves me correctly, even the guy in the rumpled brown tweed traded it in for pin stripes shortly after introducing us to the crazy economic world of New Democrat's.) Sorry for being so harsh, but it seems to me that you have nothing to complain about. Government has obviously been good to you and therefore I have decided not to donate ----------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- Binette: You should realize that in my opinion all of the negativity emanating from you does nothing to serve British Columbians at all. If you think this is not fair comment, I remind you that it was your wild-eyed gang-of-six members who took over the reins in 1991 and set the agenda. You should be helping government, instead of hampering and trying to find ways to lay blame. This province should have been the wealthiest in all of Canada. - You tell me why it's not -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ Shreck - You seem to find time to read the stuff on my site so it must serve some useful purpose. If it doesn’t influence you, it might influence some of the thousands of other folks who visit the site every month. I had to laugh when Collin Hansen tried to justify his first TV ad campaign by saying it brought in 40,000 hits to the health website. I get just over half that number without having to spend several hundred thousand in public money. Government is helped by reading my criticism (and they do read it). I can’t help it if a useful byproduct is that thousands of other folks read it and form a negative opinion about the government. “Wealthiest” can mean different things to different folks. According to UN rankings, this is one of the best places on earth to live. I consider that to be wealthy. If you mean, why per capita GDP has been flat in BC while it has grown in Alberta and Ontario, the answer is that we have neither the auto industry of Ontario nor the oil riches of Alberta. Our forest industry has limits to its growth that are determined by the size of the harvest. Our economy has been going through restructuring for over twenty years. Notwithstanding that, the other reason per capita GDP was flat is that population growth continued in BC at much higher rates than for the rest of Canada. It is true that move people moved to Alberta, but it is also true that the percentage growth in population grew by more in BC has been higher than it has been in Canada. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Binette - Actually I haven't read through your "stuff" only your BIO, (wild photo). I imagine that if in fact government does read your stuff it could be to get a good laugh. If thousands of the ignorant apathetic masses also read your stuff and are developing negative opinions about government then you should have no trouble attracting scads of "donations" to report for tax purposes. I would expect you will be back in the "West Wing" replacing the Premier soon. (However it sounds more like another stretch of imaginary magical numbers and it would be nice if you disclosed the list). Your BIO is extremely sparse on real experience. I see nothing more than an ordinary bureaucrat turned politician and back again who has no practical experience in the real world attempting to get back in the door that was slammed shut on his way out. It makes me wonder what on earth you could possibly know about the problems facing "Ordinary British Columbian's". Your most recent klingon communication is the typical denial from the past no doubt. Wealthy in this province may mean being able to put food on the table. Why is that so many in this province are so broke they can barely afford to pay attention? - Except for a few lucky forced "freedom 55 retirees" such as yourself and the many well-heeled past party members who are worry free. And of course there's always "himself " who was fortunate enough to dance into a spot with BC's Mr. Gates who in 1996 all but promised to turn him into a millionaire in no time at all. ( however that was before "himself" used up the last roll of toilet paper on the shelf). What's really so bad about Liberals anyway? You definitely seem to possess the perceived liberal attitude you constantly complain about. Please don't insult me with your intelligence about a useful byproduct.

Oh Yeah! Buzz-off Lewis

I will for, now, because it looks like shreck's kicking your ass, anywy, jean, and even the SELECTIVE quotes you're using don't seem to be helping you a lot. Perhaps you could get a job, at the fraser institute cleaning toilets,...I'm sure they'll recognize that arc light of burning intellect you've been hiding...so well.

However, I should still add that shreck both researches and backs up FACTS, a process that will no doubt remain forever beyond your rather limited grasp...

I reccomend reading today's canwest article on the gift of 1.2 billion dollar equalization payment, for the years 2001 to '03 I beleve, the very years, the bc liars claimed they turned around the economy. As even school children KNOW EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS ARE GIVEN TO PROVINCES THAT ARE ECONOMIC FAILURES, LIKE BC UNDER THE BC LIBERALS. Let's see how they try and spin this pathetic drevelopment into a triumph for gordon campbell's aasault on the bc economy. MUCH, MUCH MORE on this SOON.

Mr. Swift, We have already established that the debt in our Province had grown by another 16 Billion under the former government, likewise the current government has also added to the debt pile. Given that we pay so much interest on this debt why are you so critical of any effort to pay it down – I am curious.

Well the way I see it, this only confirms my many concerns and suspicions that Gordo wants to plunge us into an American based, borderless, economic zone, along with the help of those AMERICAN REPUBLICAN LOVING ALBERTANS who are in the position of power.

Oh say can you see…….. that it is no secret Gordo is purposefully sending us into very deep integration with the USA and if re-elected we will find ourselves so far integrated up the red white and blue hole that a new government will not be able to pull us back due to NAFTA. I mean just look at all of the recent, long term deals with our personal data, Debt Collection, Hydro, MSP, BC Rail and Pharmacare. Personal data shipped off just like that, to American based corporations such as MAXIMUS, ACCENTURE and now EDS ADVANCED SOULTIONS of fricken TEXAS!!!!!! Or how about giving away BC rail to the majority American owned CN Rail. Yes that’s right. Majority American owned Canadian National run by an American CEO. Let’s not forget bringing an American CEO to run BC Ferries or sending a record amount of raw logs down to the States as well. Not to mention sending $500 million of our tax dollars off to Germany to build those new ferries. B@stards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the hell!!! In the spirit of WAC Bennett I know we can do large projects here or in the case of personal data leave it in house! But no, hand over all of our personal info to the good ole American corporation. I guess that’s why Gordo has a picture of the white house over his office desk while preferring to holiday in Hawaii because it’s only a misdemeanor to drive around $hitfaced.

Just remember going into the next provincial election that Gordo is a TRAITOR to BC, hates the average British Columbian, is anti-Canadian and is quickly selling us off to his REPUBLICAN corporate buddies. Gordo is and always has been an AMERICAN REPUBLICAN who hijacked the BC liberals from Gordon Wilson to open the doors for his REPUBLICAN BUDDIES.

Come on BC WAKE up!!!!! Get out of the either before it’s too late!!!! We cannot let this fool sell us out like this. We need to bring pride back to BC in the next provincial election by denying Gordo and his American REPUBLICAN BUDDIES the remainder of BC’s heart and soul!!!!!!!

I posted a couple times in the Calgary Herald Soundoff today. One of them was for a guy from Kelowna complaining B.C. should have government like Alberta. I nicely attached the web address for this article, but this post didn't make the cut? Just trying to spread the Tyee word :)

Kaybertoss, Nice course in Spin 101 – Capitalize all of the nuggets of negative spin like AMERICAN REPUBLICAN…it’s a nice attempt to feed of the recent trend of anti-Americanism only to appease your own self-indulging political cause. Then say it over and over gain (Republican x 5) so it must be true right? This is the worst kind of smelly politics that there is. It gives all parties a bad name. This Premier has been overly generous in providing a plentiful supply of legitimate fodder that should be criticized without resorting to credibility robbing drivel such as this.

No, mr frustrato, we established that in a mere 3 and one half years the bc liberals created almost 5 billion worth of new debt in bc and that MOREOVER, the offloading of crown corporation supported debt to tax payer supported debt had increased 200% from about 8% to 16%. Mr mcmartin speaks eloquently of the trickery, deception and lies by which 4 billion of the so called 16 billion dollar debt, the um, ethical oh, sorry, I mean , "structural" deficit, and what a crock all that was in the above article. Learn to lose, frustrato...Interesting , about the calgary herald sound off, methinks the cowtown reactionaries need a taste of louie the swift, and a night in an s and m dungeon with ralph swine, er uh, klein, although, not necesarily in that order. Hmmm, the herald can be accessed through the "newspapers" link at the top of the online home page... in the vancouver sun or province online edition....oh and frustrato, BECAUSE THEY KILLED PEOPLE WITH THEIR MANUFACTURED CRISIS WITH THE TAXCUT THEY NEGLECTED TO MENTION UNTIL THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION??? That too complicated for your olympian intellect and discernment, yeah probably, seeing as how it involves the lives of actual people instead of the math textbook you apparently bed down with at night, sweet dreams, frustrato and don't forget to read the the truth about the structural deficit above, where mrcmartin talks of the exploit(ation)s of mr barefoot, structural deficit? ETHICAL deficit....Good points kaybertoss, gordon campbell should rename himself Captain America, with binette, and mr frustrato, as his ever faithful sidekicks, bucky, and bucky, mark 2. Let's face it rightwingers make your average nerd look like richard gere...heh, heh.....

gee lewis, I um, can't unnerstan why it's not right to keep killing the poor by not paying down a debt mr. colon feret created by an unaffordable taxcut, with money from an equalization payment that's the result of their HORRENDOUS MISMANAGEMENT OF THE BC ECONOMY IN 2001, 2002, and 2003, um, uh, duh, what do you mean by "equalization payments are for provinces with failed economies," lewis?... huh, lewis, huh?

Mr frustrato. YOU are a congenital idiot...

All I asked Mr.Swift was why you felt paying down our debt was a bad thing. I asked the question respectfully. Clearly this was an error in my judgement.

Spindetector ……….

Ha! By trying to spin my facts as spin is in fact spin at the lowest despicable level, while also ignoring all of the points and criticisms I have leveled at Gordo. My Facts Stand! Gordo is an bloody AMERICAN REPUBLICAN, anti-Canadian, hates the average British Columbian unless you are one of his wealthy/corporate buddies, sent his kids to American universities, wants a four year American style fixed election date and has a high paying cushy job lined up in the private corporate sector after he guts BC.

Gordo is indeed a proud AMERICAN REPUBLICAN just like his Cato/Fraser institute loving brother Mike Campbsmell who will stop at nothing until we are completely sent into deep integration with the States.

Again, we need to restore pride back to BC by denying these AMERICAN REPUBLICAN loving Corporate leeches a second term. I just hope it’s not too late.

However I strongly believe in the spirit of BC and the ability of British Columbians to accomplish anything we set our minds to. Without the help of greedy outside interests!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, and get it right I’m not anti-American, only anti-RERPUBLICAN!!!!!!!!!!

Re: kaybertoss, 11/26/2004 11:28:38 PM, writes: "Spindetector" ………. Schreck, is this you?

Funny how everyone else in the Province can see that BC is back on track again except the NDP. Perhaps like Kaybertoss they are occupied at home waiting for the next handout, and complaining about all of the people who manage to get ahead by actually working hard. Maybe your time is better spent looking for a better paying job Kaybertoss instead of spending time on creative writing exercises about American Republicans.

Ah I love it, whenever the right gets their knickers in a knot about what I have to say they always revert to the old get a job routine!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!! Thankfully I do have a full time job, I work a forty hour work week. So try again @sswipe……Collins.

Thanks for the compliment Jean, but no I’m not your buddy David. I’m kaybertoss.

I’m here………

http://www.members.shaw.ca/bcliberals-badforbc/

Bravo, Kaybertoss! Lahey, back on track because of surpluses and windfalls, nothing to do with BCliberal good management. This is what the BCliberals call back on track. Back on track?!...this is a train wreck. You're just lucky your reckless little caboose got rescued by the feds.

You know who's not working "for" BC? The present government. They work for everyone else but this province. This province has been disamantled, re-packaged, gift-wrapped and given to the Americans by this weak-kneed lot of traitors and american wannabees. Mention "Chicago Express" and they all drool. They don't work for us, for "our" BC... they work for American Accenture, American Maximus, German shipbuilders, American Texas-style bill collection, American David Hahn, American data companies, American railways, and the above mentioned Albertans...What's in it for BC? Not much....not much at all...in BCliberal speak that's good news. It means "back on track."

Actually Kaybertoss I didn't imply that you did not have a job, only that you should spend more time securing a better paying one. As for you Lynn, if you had a business in BC today you would understand that BC really is back on track. Sound fiscal policies are what is working, and in turn putting people back to work. I know the NDP would love to return us to the borrow and spend bubble of the 90’s, however that thinking was what nearly destroyed our province. It must be difficult to be in the NDP and actually see our province moving forward and undoing the decade of damage done by the former NDP government, and watching a steady drop in the polls at the same time. Next thing you will be claiming is that Ipsos Reid and Mustel are part of the vast conspiracy to undermine the NDP. The really funny part is that Carole James has to really on CUPE and cartoon calendars as an election platform. A person puking in toilets is a great way to entice voters to see your viewpoint. Fortunately as voters we can all see very clearly what CUPE and the NDP are all about. Keep up the good work.

Mr lahey, shouldn't you be out trying to arrest ricky and julian? LISTEN CAREFULLY: BC IS GOING TO RECIEVE 1.2 BILLION DOLLARS IN EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS FOR THE YEARS 2001 TO 2003, YEARS WHEN BC WAS RUN BY THE BC LIBERALS. EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS ARE ONLY GIVEN TO ECONOMIES WITH FAILING GRADES, TO HAVE-NOT PROVINCES LIKE BC UNDER THE BC LIARS. THIS IS NOT SPIN; IT'S SIMPLE CLEARCUT FACT. WHat part of "DUH!!!," don't you understand Mr lahey? AND lil' ol' "unbiased" evie mustel, she of of the last supposed "poll" showing a climb in bc liar fortunes, is also the author of the endless, $35,000 at taxpayer expense ads about how good it is to live and work in bc tnow that the bc liars have introduced the training wage, guted workman's compensation and safety regulations, and essentially set social justice back 30 ears using the taxcut for the most priveleged as their excuse.

It's NOT going to matter how many, fresh lies you pimp out for the bc liars; the facts remain: BC had FAR HEALTHIER ECONOMIES under the ndp, with an annual economic growth rates of over 4% twice, far beyond the most er, "liberal" projections for the bc backstabbers. Taxpayer supported debt has also exploded under the bc backstabbers. Gordon liar has a personal disapproval rating of 64% at last count, the only statistic I trust in any polls I've seen. No matter how many times you trot out newly-minted, but already tired lies, the bc liars are through. They have simply exceeded the credibility threshold of all but the most biased, willfully ignorant, and heartless.

Read david schreck's post today at stategicthoughts.com detailing how gary collins very likely knew last april that bc was up for 1.2 billion in equalization payments, but refrained from making the information public, knowing it would make the ASSAULT on the budget for the BC ministry of Children abnd Families -a $70 million cut, last year alone- TOTALLY UNJUSTIFIABLE. Gordon Campbell AKA "CAPTAIN AMERICA," has also turned dover debt collection in bc to YET ANOTHER canadian subsiduary of an american company: more than 200 million dollars in bc taxpayer money is expected to be given away for a collection job that the public sector used to do for only a few million in costs. Yet one more MARVEl of neoliberal "economics," under Captain gordon america, and his faithfull sidekick, gary "bucky" collins. I eagerly await posts from the grovelling rightwingers as to how the massive explosion in equalization payments for the DREADFULL bc economy, ruined by bc liar policies through 2001 to 2003, constitutes success.

Get a better Job? What kind of bloody crass arrogant statement is that? What if I happen to work part time at Wal-Mart? I then wouldn’t be worthy of posting here? You are the epitome of the BC LIARS attitude toward the every day average British Columbian. You further strengthen my argument that Gordo hates us average working Joes where you spew out-right contempt.

Again, I stand behind my words! Gordo is an AMERICAN REPUBLICAN and anyone who can see past Canwest Globals BS can see this so clearly. Deeper integration with the States and Alberta, all the while setting up framework for a borderless economic zone. Gordo is killing the independent spirit of BC. He must be stopped before it’s too late!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Lahey, like I said thank your lucky caboose that the feds once again rescued the train wreck that is now BC thanks to your government. You have had all the gifts that provincial governments rarely get - gifts like low interest rates, equalization payments, federal surpluses and rising commodity prices, not to mention a balanced budget from the NDP and you still blew it.

We have one of the worse child poverty rates in Canada, you call that back on track? And then there is the fast transit fiasco. You call that good business? Someone overlook the business plan? Safe bet: RAV and the Olympics get the largest share of the surplus...ever think of giving back what you stole from the disabled and the poor, (retroactive payments with interest would be a good idea).

You left out an important fact about people working in BC now - they now work for less, a lot less in many cases. That's probably what the child poverty level is really reflecting - an assault on the poor through cuts to funding by an extreme right-wing government and growing privatization whereby the citizens of this province no longer make a decent wage... to provide food and clothing and textbooks and school lunches for their children....what the BCliberals call back on track.

Eventually, Mr. Lehay the history books will record the infamous names of the men and women who sold BC without the consent of it's citizens. Their children and their grandchildren will be able to read how they betrayed the people of this province, how they sold the jewels from the BC Crown. How they took from the poor to give to the rich. How the citizens of this province were abandoned at the expense of american interests. And how the mainstream media in this province largely sat back and watched.

re Mr. Lahey -"if you had a business in B.C. today, you would understand....." This leads into what is causing division in Canada and the States (add fundamentalism). Too many of those who are successful in everything from self-employed, small and big business, farming and right up to large corporations, 'too often' live to only accumulate more money and more assets. They JUSTIFY and accelerate their goals by looking at wage earners as losers who never had the drive to go it on there own, and therefore should be treated accordingly. They are neo-Conservatives and they are blessed with governments of like mind in B.C., Alberta, and potentially Canada, if Harper's party gets in. At the other end of the political spectrum we have the N.D.P., which creates a whole bunch of different problems. I believe any semblance of harmony cannot only happen in the middle ground - liberal/small 'c' conservatism. The States are a much more divided country now because the Republicans have moved too far from right of centre.

- She described evenings at home with "Gord" as a dizzying tour of all his dreams, ideas and ambition for B.C. She promised the audience they are always on his mind and that he is determined to give them and their families a better future with more opportunities.

Lynn Do you relive believe the dogma that you preach? You are going to blame child poverty entirely on the government are you? It has nothing to do with parenting and family choices? In my Rotary club we spend a fair amount of our time and resources trying to help less fortunate people, and let me tell you that has been an eye opening experience. Let’s just leave it at that. And your drivel about low paying jobs? I suppose you think it is government’s responsibility to get someone off his or her ass to apply for something that pays better. There are all kinds of different paying jobs in the workforce; there are also all kinds of lazy people who do nothing to improve their own financial situations. I suppose it is easier to sit back and bitch hoping that the government will come along and make it all better.

Mr. Lahey, this is my response to you. Some governments do their best to help the poor, others try their best to defeat them. Some governments defeat the poor out of ignorance, out of arrogance, out of a refusal to really listen... to listen and then to respond to what is truly needed.

The present government's mean-spirited assaults on funding for the poor and the disabled (due to their impulsive tax cuts for the rich) and their policy of increasing privatization has resulted in many people, often single moms, no longer having a decent wage to support their families on, leading to increased poverty in this province, evidential in the rising use of food banks.

Bad parenting and irresponsible parenting surely don't help but sometimes those, too, are the result of the parent needing help themselves. Underneath all your pretense of charity, I hear all the old stereo-types: "eye-opening experience", "getting off his or her ass", "all kinds of lazy people"... and you thought being truly charitable was like a government ad...a glossy walk in the park-easy, cut and dry, black and white... and then the true complexities and ugliness that is often part of being "less fortunate"... the part that demands you see past the superficial was just too, well, real for you.

What you didn't understand in your eye-opening experience is that what you were witnessing was the generational consequences of poverty and neglect. The people neglecting were probably neglected themselves. Quit blaming, a necessary step before the real work starts.

I would never wait for this government to make anything better...I've read waitng for Godot far too many times, thanks. However, you do seem to forget that we pay taxes for the government to make things better. When things don't get better, we have a right to ask what you spent "our" money on. It's our money, not the governments, don't forget that. You are not doing us any favours. We pay you and soon we may fire you.

As for your constant insinuations, that the left commenters here don't have "well-paying enough" jobs for you or if only we ran a business... well, who are you to judge? Why should you judge a man or a woman by the money they make? What an inane yardstick to use. I'm a teacher, my husband and I have run several successful businesses, with tourists from all over the world. Good enough for you, impressive enough. It doesn't impress me one way or the other. Life is way more than that.

EXCELLENT rebuttals from lynn and kaybertoss. Mr Lahey's effete, trite, arrogant comments, are essentially beneath contempt. Binette, cut back on the prozac; it's obviously not helping. Mr Lahey, who obviously can't wait for gordon liar to finish turning communities all over BC into trailer parks, so he feels more important, -gee, just like the drunken trailer park tv character, the drinkin' part kind of explains why you're such a buddy of gord's- Mr Lahey, YOU'RE lIVING PROOF THAT THE TERM "WHITE TRASH" CAN VERY OFTEN BE MORE ACCUREATELY BE APPLIED TO UPPER INCOME GROUPS, JUST LIKE YOUR HILLBILLY PILOT BUDDY, GARY COLLINS, WHO SOMEHOW THINKS THAT HE COULD PASS AN ECONOMICS 101 COURSE. Taking the bc economy as his term paper, his grade, AND YOURS, wouild be a D-. Your a bad joke, told in very poor taste, and your lack of both empathy, and intelligence is astounding; the only thing that impresses mre about you is the highly accurate monicker you have chosen, no doubt unconsciously.

Kaybertoss I am in total agreement with you that gordon campbell is as aamerican as both apple pie and neoliberalism. Gordon Campbell made a special GROVELLING trip about a year ago, asking cheney and bush, if there wasn't some way he could give away bc faster and cheaper. Looking at schreck's post on when collin's knew bc was receiving equalization payment's again, it would appear, that perhaps 2004, for which equalization payments are also due from ottawa was an economic disaster under the bc liars as well. Could the tyee run an another article by mcmartin spelling out just what this huge increase in aqualization payments says about the bc liar economic record, please??

It amazes me that when one critcizes the present government which pretends to be Liberal that one is labeled Left or NDP. The government apologists seem to be paranoid in the extreme. The 'looting' of Canadian companies by the Americans has a long list of businesses that they have bought and MOVED to the US of A. There is also Federal Government taxation policies that have driven warehousing out of the West and to Ontario and Quebec. And we never hear a single complaint from the present Government (or the past ones.) BC's truck building industry has moved to the US. Remember the copper pipe fiasco? US interests have bought up Alberta with open arms by the Feds and Klein. They are now moving on to BC where the pickings are even better. There was a little ditty around a few years ago. The American Eagle is a mighty bird Over the US spreads its wings and on Canada drops its turds. In this case it is picking at the body for the meat and all we may be left with is the bones. And we are feeding the bird our jobs, resources and businesses that used to pay decent wages.

THE TRAILER PARK BOYS OF BC: Mr. Lahey -played by mr lahey. Julian, who always has a drink in his hand, played by gordon campbell, and Ricky, OF COURSE, played by gary collins, as the member of the group, whose iq is actually, a NEGATIVE NUMBER... (we could in fact say that the iqs and ethics of the trailer park boys in bc, SUFFERS from a structural deficit, that of using inferior material) with guest spots by geoff plant as bubbles...the only problem with this metaphor is that the actual Rickey's economic plan, growing pot, is actually far more economically viable than gary's and gord's: selling bc to the lowest american bidder for the maximum loss of decent paying jobs.

Excellent Lewis Lynn, your ideas certainly make me dizzy! Did you know that Bush is the first US president to get a clear majority in a presidential election since the Regan years? I guess more American voters like him than not. - Go figure.

Lynn, You seriously think that people who run for elected office are out just to get the poor? Likewise you state “The people neglecting were probably neglected themselves” as a “generational consequences of poverty” In other words, lets blame our parents – it has to be somebody’s fault other than ours always doesn’t it? For what it is worth (and I can appreciate that will be very little to you) here is what I see all to often with families that struggle; usually a car that they cannot afford, being financed by a hi-ratio house like HFC. There is usually a case of empties in the closest, and an ashtray full of cigarette butts. Almost always a 27” color tv, and cable, and when it comes to the kids; something like an Xbox and a bookshelf full of Xbox games. There is often a VCR and ton of pre-purchased movies. By the door will be a cell phone. And maybe a bowl full of dog food for fido. The problem is, there is no food in the fridge and no money for clothes for the kid (s) however for the cable, for the cell phone contract, for the car payment, for the car insurance, for the cigarette’s, for the beer, there is always money for those things. So what do you do? Cancel any of things you don’t need (cell phone, beer, cigarettes? As examples) ? Complain about the government instead? Complain to your boss because you don’t have enough money? Find a better paying job? Max out your credit card? Borrow money? I suppose we all make different decision in life, and ultimately that will affect where we end up. Or at least some of us think that way.

In all fairness Mr. Lahey, not everybody is as lucky as you.

Mr Lahey, Mr Lahey--what planet did you come from? You are so out of touch with most middle and lower income families that I am left to think you must have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth! Your comments re "families that struggle" are insulting. Isn't it fortunate that you have made all the RIGHT decisions and can now stand on your soap box and judge people you obviously know nothing about.

Mr. Lahey: I never said "people who run for elected office are out to get the poor." Your words, Mr. Lahey, not mine. I said "some" governments defeat the poor out of ignorance, arrogance and a refusal to listen and then address those issues of concern. All governments' decisions, policies, and choices made have ramifications and consequences. Sometimes serious ones, especially to those most vulnerable.

Politicians like Tommy Douglas listened and addressed issues that would make the life of the poor and all Canadians better. He used "our" tax dollars wisely and compassionately. And he paid down his province's debt as well without assaulting the poor. His government made life better. It is why he is being recognized as one of Canada'a greatest Canadians.

History will deal with the BC liberals, with Gordon Campbell and his cabinet much more harshly. Their mean-spirited governance will be recorded and read by many, including their own children and grandchildren. Quite a legacy and an infamous one that few would want.

As for your stereo-typical list above of families that struggle, all those "things", those habits, those addictions of booze, drugs, and cigarettes belong to the rich as well. The rich over-spend, get arrested for drunk driving, go bankrupt because they buy too many things, and are unable to manage their money. Your list crosses all income levels, you just refuse to see that the poor are just like everybody else. No different, except that you blame them for being poor.

You've left out examples like the single moms or dads who worked as health care workers, lost their jobs or had their income greatly reduced by privatization brought in by your government. Their lives, their once decent wages, have been sold out to foreign corporations who are getting rich at the expense of British Columbians. Now that's betrayal, pure and simple, that's a government working against it's citizens.

Tommy Douglas is dead now and most of the province's didn't have any debt back then. Clearly the last administration pushed our debt through the roof and nearly killed this province and something had to be done.

Actually Lynn, I think you touched on the point that I am trying to get at. Your comment "all those "things", those habits, those addictions of booze, drugs, and cigarettes belong to the rich as well” My point is that we all make choices in life, and have to deal with the consequences, bad choices are bad choices that carry a price tag. For some reason if some parent of limited financial means makes a bad choice and the kids pay the price – Why are we always looking to blame government for this? When did it become politically incorrect to take responsibility for our own decisions and actions? Since when did a person’s financial stature make bad behavior suddenly acceptable? I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth - actually an only child with a deadbeat alcoholic of a dad who left my mother and I with an empty bank account. My mom worked her ass off, never took a handout, and when I was 15 I was pumping gas at a Texaco for minimum wage. After that I moved on to Woodward’s where I made a couple of bucks more an hour. I kept moving on looking for better jobs and opportunities. Neither my mom, nor I smoked, nor drink – We could not afford to. We made sacrifices and that is how it worked. It wasn’t luck, it was work. What’s wrong with that?

in mr lahey's extremely finite and LITTLE universe, because he suffered, all others must suffer, preferably more if possible, and in mr. lahey's TINY, little universe it's ALWAYS, possible. Strange as it may seem to your pinhead morality, mr lahey, bad thingd happen to extremely decent people , especially in a province where the newspaper is run by a monopoly that has the premier's brother praise the premier's economic policy, that has utterly abdicated its responsibility for unbiased journalism, that aids and abets the premier hiding his assualts on the vulnerable. I've done work you wouldn't have lasted two minutes at, mr lahey, sonny, and quite frankly you're a smug, sanctimomious piece of human, well...nevermind.

What we could really use in this province, mr lahey, is a constitutional guaranttee thar the public good can't be RAPED, by a smug little liar like our premier, WHO, MR LAHEY, JUST LIKE YOU AND A NUMBER OF OTHER IMITATION HUMAN BEINGS WHO ARE SMUG ABOUT THEIR UTTERLY UNDESERVERD THAT'S SERVED AS THE MANUFATURED CRISIS TO ASSAULT INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO BUILT THIS PROVINCE WAY GREATER THAN ANY POSSSIBILITY OF YOUR PERSONAL DONATIONS TO ITS GREATER GOOD. You know what's wrong with you, mr lahey, rich or poor, young or old, of any social class, mr lahey...you're a lame and pathetic excuse for a human being, I've seen dogs with better morals...

I first heard the idea of "we all make choices" come up a few years ago from church-going friends of mine. I saw this as an 180 degree turn away from "but for the grace of God go I"

Well, said, truelib, and remember all the people attacked by gordon campbell's MANUFACTURED CRISES in bc. Mr lahey, wants you know, it's all your fault, you just shouldn't be disabled, old, sick, dying, young, a woman, a government worker, a teacher, or your average british columbian. Hell, you SHOULD HAVE KNOWN gordon campbell would lie about all of his intentions, manufacture an unneccesary fiscal crisis, AND THEN LEVERAGE THIS CRISIS AS AN EXCUSE TO GUT THE SOCIAL CONTRACT. No, you should have known...personal responsibility. There are those of us who dream of the campbell government facing personal responsibility for its actions, in a court of law...

In technicolor no doubt

Ah, lewis swift makes a fine point. Mr. Lahey, we all believe in personal responsibility for our choices, let the Campbell government lead the way. BE accountable for the choices you made that left so many British Columbians poorer, that left the disabled dangling precariously in paperwork to prove themselves worthy to keep their benefits, that turned decent wages into take home pay that families can now barely survive on.

When you talk about the guy with the cellphone and the colour TV but no food for the children in the fridge that's a metaphor for your government. BC has one of the worst child poverty levels in Canada , that means no food in the BC fridge. However, Gordon Campell and crew had no problem spending oodles of "our" money on glossy ads of self-promotion, on a biased, way over-budget website of the same self-serving nature, expensive logos for health authorities, trips to Texas, and those are just a few of the minor frills, we haven't even got to the big stuff. Time to take responsibility for bad choices indeed or is that just for everyone else?

As trulib says "but for the grace of God go I"... we are all just a heartbeat from moments that can change our lives, accident, overwhelming misfortune, mental illness, depression, job loss...all can result in ways that paralyze or prevent us from making good choices. Have some compassion for those that find themselves in dire circumstances.

What if your mother's wages had been as severely cut as those of health workers in BC, after she had worked so hard for so many years? The family supporting "decent wage" is in real jeopardy in this province because of privatization. As even the American entrepreneur Henry Ford recognized about a decent wage... the people on the factory line should be paid well enough to afford the product they make.

As for the principle of working hard. How many "days" was the fall session for those hardworking BCliberal MLA's?

One comment Swift, I never once used the terms “suffered” in fact I am thankful for the lessons I have learned in life, the importance of working hard and living within one’s means. I probably worked more minimum wage jobs than you ever did Swift, and as an employer today I pay wages well above minimum wage that reflect upon work ethic and job performance. I can also tell you that business today, as Mr.Pattison has perhaps said it best, is the best it has ever been in BC. And I am not alone in that assessment. So you can continue to live in denial, and pretend all is terrible in BC if that makes you feel you better. And to answer your question Lynn, wages and jobs get eliminated all of the time in the real world. We can both adapt and overcome the obstacle or we can sit around like Lewis Swift, blame the government and wait for the handout.

Yep, lehay, you and canwest media are all anxious to tell us at taxpayer expense, at $35.000 per taxpayer pop, just how great things are, and yep, they ARE better in bc, for every wealthy person and corporation that got the underserved taxcut that study after unbiased, non canwest study says has NOTHING FOR THE ECONOMY. I imagine Pattison's taxcut amounted to tens of millions of dollars a a year. There is not ONE singular acccomplishment creditable to the bc liars, except gutting the social contract. Their economic impact has been negative. They are incompetent BACKSTABBERS.

The rest of bc however, a geometrically exploding percentage of the population, are no longer fooled by the empty lies and boasts, the misleading ads, shamefully tainted with the blood of innocent people, as the surrey byelection showed so well. The bc liars can no longer count on the ethnic vote they took for granted for so long. AND ONCE AGAIN, STUPID, oh, pardon me, mr lahey, every junior high school student knows EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS GO ONLY TO FAILED ECONOMIES, LIKE BC'S UNDER THE BC LIARS LIKE BC's GETTING FOR AT LEAST THREE OUT OF FOUR YEARS UNDER THE BC INCOMPETENTS AND GORDON LIAR. AND DO YOU REALLY THINK MANY DECENT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR A DRUNKEN, SADISTIC LITTLE BACKSTABBER?? I think not, mr lahey, and on may 20005, the bc liars, as your monicker would say, are going to face a sh*t snunami, as the sh*t abyss of their reflected perfidy swallows them up in the perfect sh*tstorm. Lahey, neoliberals are both pathetic losers, in every sense, as well as wretched human beings, and your lies and distortions are as empty as your heart, and no doubt as worthless as your word.

P.S. Lahey,all of the above refers to the "real world" and your active role in it's deterioration. You wouldn't know the real world if it bit you on the ass, lehay. And I predict it will.

Mr. Lahey: When you say "wages and jobs get eliminated all the time in the real world"...that's the point. They are no longer being eliminated due to the natural ebb and flow of the marketplace, they are being eliminated because of BCliberal government policies. People in BC are losing their jobs because of government policies that are now betraying and defeating it's own citizens.

Is the night of the full moon over yet?

Jean: It's over on May 17,2005.

GOOd one!

Lehay, admit it. BC is a have-not province because of the damage inflicted by your party's ideological tinkering (with a fire axe) at the balanced social and economic programs that have evolved over the years in BC. That you have recuited Jean Binnette to support your rhetorical bullshit speaks volumes about your credibility. Your buddies took over a province in 2001 that had just experienced two consecutive balanced budgets with supluses. Today, BC's wealthy are wealthier, the poor are poorer and our economy is nearing collapse as investors realize your Liberal politicians are dumber than a gang of unemployed used-car salesmen waiting for a bus. The only thing missing from your rags to riches fairytale above was someone playing the violin in the background, but then perhaps that is what Binette thinks he is doing. Jean, either tighten up or replace a few of those violin strings. Those out of tune notes are frightening away legitimate investors. We really don't need more liquor stores, gambling casinos or greedy doctors who want to feed on public health dollars, yet demand private profits.

I never play second fiddle. One "n" please! Mr. Lehay sounds like one of those neo cons you love to refer to. I on the other hand am an off-center Liberal who doesn't gamble - go figure. (many of the contributers here are the usual unbalanced types who hate this goverment no matter what)

While I enjoy debate, the puerile screeds from the two “sides” represented here exemplify the “Punch and Judy Show Politics” characteristic of public policy debate prevalent in a lot of sectors of B.C. society. Until it stops, and until we find alternative, constructive ways forward on the path: we are all captive of the rigid old ideologies that so polarize this province. This is regardless of whether it is NDP, Corporate Labour, Corporate Business, Chamber of Commerce, or however else you want to characterize the political Right. How utterly tiresome and how utterly stupid. No wonder Albertans are being invited into the breech. Cosmic irony indeed. Sigh............

You said it very well Mr. Kilt, (whatever your label) "How utterly stupid..."

A "significant" number of employees of Plano, Texas-based Electronic Data Systems Corp. could lose their jobs during the next few months as part of a $3 billion cost-cutting plan designed to make the company more competitive and profitable, EDS' chief executive said Wednesday. - Boston Business Journal, July 29, 2004: http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2004/07/26/daily52.html? jst=b_ln_hl

State of Connecticut scrapped a deal with EDS to privatize Connecticut’s entire information technology infrastructure, calling the early results of an EDS study a ‘wake-up call’. The study sites numerous failures of EDS in its small scale contracts with the state, including failure to complete implementation of a info management system for Medicaid claims. Before the deal was scrapped, the state comptroller Nancy Wyman said privatizing the state’s IT through EDS could be “the worst fiscal and policy decision of the decade for the state of Connecticut” Regarding two years worth of documents between EDS and the state which she based many of her findings on, Wyman also stated: "These documents should be a wake-up call to this administration to abandon this billion-dollar-plus boondoggle. If EDS couldn't handle this single project, how can the administration consider them the front-runner for the biggest contract in state history?"

On management of EDS during its Ross Perot days: “EDS tapped phones and used detectives to investigate its own employees, according to [writer Gerard] Posner. He traced license plate numbers in the parking lot to see who came late or left early...and in "particularly heated" fights for contracts, employees on the bid team would be physically searched to ensure they did not remove any paperwork that could assist the opposition."

http://www.realchange.org/perot.htm#govtmo ney [based on excerpts from the book Citizen Perot: His Life and Times, Gerald Posner (Random House: NY), 1996] - Polaris Institute: EDS Profile by Darren Puscas

Electronic Data Systems Corp. has won a one-year, $6.5 million subcontract from Sytel Corp. to provide information technology infrastructure support services to the Homeland Security Department's Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, the company announced this week. The contract, which includes five options years, could be worth as much as $34 million if all options are exercised. Under the subcontract, EDS of Plano, Texas, will provide IT services including planning, development, maintenance, help desk, database and operations support for a variety of critical systems. - "EDS will aid in Homeland Security tech support" Nov. 19, 2004: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=eds

Subsidiary of Texas giant wins contract to collect British Columbia's bills Scott Sutherland Canadian Press Friday, November 26, 2004

VICTORIA (CP) -- In another major outsourcing move, the British Columbia Liberal government has signed a 10 year contract with a private company to get its revenue collection system back on track. The government signed the deal with EDS Advanced Solutions, a B.C. subsidiary of the Plano, Texas-based EDS Corporation. It's part of an effort to do a better job of cracking down on bad debts, write-offs and delinquent accounts of over 90 days, said Revenue Minister Rick Thorpe. Those now exceed $800 million. "There are some problems in the system that require a significant fix," said Thorpe. "It's about being able to process bills, getting bills out (and) managing that."

In fact, some of the problems are as simple as not sending bills to the proper address. Currently, about $2.5 billion in non-tax revenue flows to the provincial government through more than 40 streams divided among various ministries. The EDS contract, which covers delivery of information technology and processing and collection of non-tax-related government bills, is worth a potential $572 million to the company.

Thorpe said in return, taxpayers will see nearly $40 million a year in direct financial benefits.

Beginning Dec. 6, those who owe money to the provincial government will be dealing with a new entity, Revenue Services of British Columbia." "There is no targetting or any of that kind of stuff, it's about British Columbians that owe money to other British Columbians," said Thorpe. "They are British Columbians that owe for MSP, they're British Columbians that owe for ambulance services, they're British Columbians that owe for a number of services."

EDS has offered jobs to more than 200 civil servants affected by the deal. The president of the B.C. Government and Service Employees Union said the current collective agreement for those workers will continue past its March 2006 expiry and an extension with "very attractive terms and conditions" has been negotiated, but not yet ratified by members.

B.C. New Democrat leader Carole James says many countries are moving away from privatization of government services having learned that it turns out to be more expensive in the long run. "Once again, the jury is out. We don't know whether taxpayers are actually going to save money here, but this government is just determined to privatize," she said. "Sadly we see one more example."

The B.C. government has also recently outsourced management of its medical service plan and accounting services for Crown-owned BC Hydro. The government said Friday the EDS contract includes privacy protections that exceed provincial standards as well as those recommended by the B.C. privacy commissioner. The commissioner recently released an exhaustive report on the privacy effects of contracting out following concerns that British Columbians' personal information could be accessed by U.S. officials under the anti-terrorism USA Patriot Act if the contractor has a U.S. parent.

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B.C. privatizes bill collection WebPosted Nov 26 2004 12:09 PM PST

VICTORIA - The B.C. government has signed a 10-year deal, contracting out bill collection services to a private company – EDS Advanced Solutions Inc. The deal is worth $572 million. And the government says it will mean net savings of $38 million a year for B.C. taxpayers. "It's about increasing customer service. It's about transferring risk to the private sector," says Revenue Minister Rick Thorpe.

Starting Dec. 6, EDS will be collecting overdue fines, fees and loan payments – but not taxes. The Ministry of Revenue says there is currently about $800 million that is more than 90 days overdue. Senior officials insist they're not going to be strong-arming debtors into paying their bills. But they note that if they could only deliver bills on time, they would have a better collection success rate.

EDS Advanced Solutions is the Victoria-based subsidiary of a Toronto company – which in turn is a subsidiary of a U.S. based multinational. The 215 government employees who do bill collection now, will be transferred to EDS. But B.C. Government and Service Employees' Union president George Heyman says government could do the job just as well. "Whether it's a private company or the government there won't be efficiency unless there's the appropriate resources and efficiencies provided by the government," he says. Heyman is also worried about having a company linked to the U.S handling confidential information – although the government insists all that sensitive data will remain in Canadian hands.

___

Government announcement http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/nrm_news_releases/2004REV0006-001001.htm

Ministry report on the contract http://www.rev.gov.bc.ca/rmp_summary_report.pdf

Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act: Bill 2-2004 Part 7 -- Debt Collection http://www.legis.gov.bc.ca/37th5th/3rd_read/gov02-3-pt07. htm#part07

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EDS Profile from Polaris Institute http://www.polarisinstitute.org/corp_profiles/public_servi ce_gats/corp_profile_ps_eds.html#Anchor-40412

Excerpts:

General EDS Financial Information:

• Stock Free Fall: On September 18th 2002, EDS announced that its earnings per share for the quarter ending September 30th were likely to be much lower than previously stated. They had predicted EPS to be $0.75 and now restated this as more likely to be 0.15 due to 2-5% lower expected revenues. This caused EDS' share price to fall dramatically, losing more than half its value the following day and fell to as far down ad $10.09 on September 24th. At one point last November its share price had been $72.45. As well, on September 20th, it was revealed that on September 20th EDS had to pay $225 million to pay for derivatives contracts. This was because the contracts were essentially bets that EDS' own stock would go up, which it obviously didn't.

This dramatic loss in stock price hit employees quite hard as well, as EDS' retirement savings plan involves matching employee contributions with company stock. As well, EDS announced it was planning to cut expenses - layoffs were a possible means to this expense cutting.

It is a big question right now if this huge fall in EDS' earnings is more based on the fall in the information technology sector or if it is from deeper problems in the company's infrastructure. Their contracts with Worldcom, financially troubled Xerox, American airlines, Continental Airlines and the now bankrupt US Airways certainly has not helped their business. And since the stock started into freefall, Procter and Gamble has delayed its awarding of a $8 billion contract with EDS. Other thoughts that have been raised as reasons for the stock's collapse include the possibility that EDS aggressive growth strategy had led them to ignore the signs that Information Technology sector momentum had been lost. Another is that EDS had made so many large deals in the recent past that they got off track in their already existing businesses and that these mega deals may have absorbed cash that could have gone to strengthening is other businesses.

According to a Dallas Morning News Report from September 29th, 2002 - EDS and CEO Dick Brown will have the following tasks if it is to turn the company's troubles around:

A. "Convince Wall St that it isn't fudging when it predicts its revenues and costs" B. Handle cash appropriately C. Practice Careful Accounting

As a result of this earnings statement, the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has announced an informal inquiry into its financial transactions, including (1) the causes of the steep revenue and earnings shortfall EDS announced (2) the derivative bets EDS made on its own stock and ended up paying $225 million for. As of now EDS has stated it is confident that the SEC will "confirm that its actions were proper". As well, EDS has had several class action lawsuits filed against it on behalf of its shareholders for what the plaintiffs see as misrepresentations to the market of its financial condition which artificially inflated the price of EDS' securities.

A. Board of Directors (EDS/Government revolving door?)

• William Daley – Commerce Secretary under the Clinton Administration, chair of the Gore/Lieberman Presidential campaign, elected to the EDS Board on February 6, 2001. UPDATE: Daley was forced by law to resign in February 2002 when he became President of SBC Communications, a business with some similar work as EDS.

• James Baker – former Chief of Staff and Treasury Secretary under President Reagan, and Secretary of State under George Bush (EDS Shares = 15,346). Also a senior partner with the law firm Baker & Botts, LLP, which, according to a shareholder in EDS, collects substantial fees from EDS and EDS does not disclose these fees. In addition, the American Bar Association discourages directors from sitting on boards from which they collect substantial legal fees. (EDS Shares = 15,346)

(See Naomi Klein's article: James Baker's Double Life: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041101&s=klein)

• Richard Brown, EDS CEO and Chair of the Board – also on the board at Vivendi, Home Depot, and recently, Dupont

• Roger Enrico – CEO of PepsiCo (EDS Shares = 11,121)

• Dick Cheney (former longtime EDS Board member) – currently US Vice President (Defense Secretary under George Bush), resigned from the EDS Board last fall, being replaced by former Commerce Secretary Daley. Cheney’s financial disclosures revealed that ‘when he was picked by Gov. George W. Bush of Texas as his running mate, Cheney received hundreds of thousands of dollars from EDS’ www.sptimes.com/News/090200/Worldandnation/If_he_wins__Cheney_to.shtm l

Interestingly, a Cato institute report came out at the same time touting “Cheney’s Record Shows Willingness to Take Hard Steps on Social Security” http://www.socialsecurity.org/dailys/08-01-00.html

Touting his support for Reagan’s 1981 limit on the cost of living increase and his expressed support for Social Security reform based on personal retirement accounts. (He reiterated this on the Regis show a few weeks later)

• The Rest of the Board: William Gray III, President and CEO of The College Fund/UNCF, Ray Groves, Retired CEO and Chair of Ernst and Young, Jeffery Heller, EDS Vice-Chair, Ray Hunt, Chair and CEO of Hunt Oil, C. Robert Kidder, Chair and CEO of Borden Inc, Judith Rodin, President of the University of Pennsylvania.

4. Social Profile

Questionable Practices and Problem Contracts:

• Texas Medicaid – accused of overcharging the State of Texas on a Medicaid contract. “The Travis County district attorney convened a grand jury to investigate whether EDS overcharged the state, potentially by over $10m. This came after searches in Plano and Austin. In June 2001, EDS offered to pay the state $3.4 million to end the grand jury investigation. EDS said that this settlement does not equal an admission of wrongdoing. In July 2002, the Texas Attorney General stated in a report that was not released to the public, that EDS, through its subsidiary National Heritage Insurance Co., had overcharged and improperly billed the state of Texas for its work on the Texas Medicaid program. The report included information that the EDS subsidiary charged for an executive's luxury apartment, sports tickets, and questionable employee bonuses, among other things. Still, the Attorney general refused to release the full report publicly saying that the report is protected communication between the state's lawyers and its clients. Numerous newspaper articles, including two Austin American-Statesman editorials, called for the public release of the document, especially because the Texas Medicaid contract is up for renewal in late in 2002. Through all of this, including their $3.4 million payment, EDS continues to deny any wrongdoing stating that this is all politically motivated.

A whistleblower, former state employee James Churchill and his team of lawyers were given $995,000 from EDS at the end of July 2002 to drop a lawsuit accusing the company of recouping Medicaid dollars paid to patients who either had private insurance or had their medical bills paid later. The settlement was to pay for all the legal fees in the case and Churchill got $150,000 because he was a lawyer working on the case himself. This was all done confidentially, which though legal and not uncommon, is questionable because of the continued secrecy surrounding events in the entire EDS/Texas Medicaid affair. Ironically enough given all of this, EDS is still in the running for contract renewal. With the contract up for renewal, many newspapers and commentators are stating that the entire process is too secretive to be able to make proper decisions about whether or not EDS should be awarded the contract. And it is certainly interesting that in this time of corporate scandal, that a company can still fight to renew a contract that the state has already had many problems with - it is fair to say that it may be true that having the right connections in the state and pouring the right amount of money in helps to get past these issues of corporate responsibility.

The watchdog group Lobby Watch, part of Texans for Public Justice, did a probe into EDS' lobby efforts during the time of the signing of the 1998 deal. The EDS Political Action Committee gave $45,750 to state politicians for the 1998 election campaign, including $12,500 to George Bush's campaign for Governor. As well, EDS had 36 lobbyists reporting EDS income between $1.3 million and $2.1 million and it had 14 staff lobbyists as well. EDS campaign contributions and lobbying efforts surely helped them build the clout sometimes needed to land a major contracts such as the Texas Medicaid contract. Though it is speculation as to how much EDS' lobby efforts contributed to it gaining the contracts, it can be safely stated that companies do not pay for such an expensive team of lobbyists if they do not expect to get major returns.

A look into their past connections with the state of Texas revealed a long-standing “marriage” which was very beneficial to EDS. In 1980, Ross Perot appealed to the governor and Attorney general over the Medicaid contract EDS lost on and persuaded them to reverse their decision, awarding the contract to EDS. In 1987, the state extended the contract with EDS without looking for outside bids, a move the state auditor questioned. In 1988, a memo was released which urged employees to destroy documents which looked bad on the company’s Medicaid management. EDS said this was a mistake and no documents were shredded.

[Dallas Morning News, February 24th, 2001; “A Company’s storied history with the state of Texas", Laylan Copelin, Austin American-Statesman, March 4th, 2001; "Whistleblower, state contractor settled lawsuit", Laylan Copelin, Austin American-Statesman, July 30th, 2002; "Medicaid Lawsuit ends in Secret Settlement", Associated Press, July 30th, 2002; "Company overbilled Medicaid, probe finds", Polly Ross Hughes, Houston Chronicle, July 18th, 2002; "Taxpayers Deserve Data on Contractor", Editorial, Austin American Statesman, July 16th, 2002; "AG Refuses to release report on Medicaid Contractor, Associated Press, July 14th, 2002; "Get NHIC Facts Before Awarding Contract", Editorial, Austin American-Statesman, July 19th, 2002; "Medicaid Raid! Following the Money Behind the EDS Mess", Lobby Watch (Texans for Public Justice (February 27th, 2001)]

• Virginia Medicaid – in 1997, Virginia state officials cancelled a $45 million Medicaid contract with EDS saying the company could not deliver the technical expertise required, failing to develop a system to manage the Medicaid payments -they were 20 months late on the contract when the contract was cancelled. According to Joseph Teefey, the State's Medicaid director, EDS denied access to the system from the state and refused the Medicaid agency's request for the master planEDS had received the contract 3 years earlier, even though its bid was 50% higher than that of its competitor. EDS hired a senior Virginia Medicaid official a short time after the bids were completed and there were numerous other accusations of impropriety. It had over $20,000 to legislative candidates in Virginia's 1996 elections and hired Vectre Corporation to handle it lobbying. Vectre employs some of Virginia's top, most connected lobbyists.

It was determined in August 1997 that EDS was to repay $2.3 million in damages for not honoring the contract and for return of an initial payment that had been given to Medicaid.

["State Will be repaid $2.3 million: Firm didn't devise way to handle Medicaid contracts", Stacey Hawkins Adams, Richmond Times Dispatch, August 23rd, 1997; "State Cancels Contract for Medicaid claims system" The Virginian-Pilot (Norfolk Virginia), Local Scene Section, April 26th, 1997; "Virginia Drops Pact on Medicaid: Failure to finish system blamed", Michael Hardy, Richmond Times Dispatch, April 25th, 1997]

• 15,000+ people fired since 1999 in restructuring and streamlining operations. In July 2002, EDS announced that it would be axing 2,000 more jobs across divisions, mostly in the U.S. (the 2,000 jobs amounts to about 1.4% of its total workforce)

• State of Connecticut scrapped a deal with EDS to privatize Connecticut’s entire information technology infrastructure. calling the early results of an EDS study a ‘wake-up call’. The study sites numerous failures of EDS in its small scale contracts with the state, including failure to complete implementation of a info management system for Medicaid claims. Before the deal was scrapped, the state comptroller Nancy Wyman said privatizing the state’s IT through EDS could be “the worst fiscal and policy decision of the decade for the state of Connecticut” Regarding two years worth of documents between EDS and the state which she based many of her findings on, Wyman also stated: "These documents should be a wake-up call to this administration to abandon this billion-dollar-plus boondoggle. If EDS couldn't handle this single project, how can the administration consider them the front-runner for the biggest contract in state history?" "IT Confidential", Jack Soat, Information Week Online, June 21st, 1999, http://www.informationweek.com/739/confid.htm; "Comptroller: Dump plans to hire EDS to run state computers", Diane Scarponi, Associated Press State and Local Wire, June 15th, 1999]

Five contracts being outsourced by B.C. government http://www.bcgeu.ca/2440

Details of personal information at risk

B.C. government is contracting with EAS Advanced Solutions Inc., a subsidiary of EDS Canada which is a subsidiary of EDS International, an American corporation, to provide access to all its records. Services include account management, billing, payment processing, and collections.

Gives access to confidential financial and personal information of many British Columbians:

driver's licence records, vehicle registration information, insurance information - income assistance and student loan applications - medical information (all MSP billing history) - ambulance (where you were picked up and driven to) - SIN - birthdate - address (current and historical list of address from opening of any account to present) - personal property and asset information - credit information - liabilities (who you owe money to currently and in the past, how much, monthly payments, credit card numbers) - bank account #s - if you are an owner (or otherwise) of a company - place of employment (current and historical) - your income and sources of income (EI, etc.) - income of your spouse or common law partner - amount of child support payment you receive or pay - amount of child tax benefit and/or GST you receive - your monthly expenses (rent, mortgage, how much you spend on food, telephone, cable, utilities, bus passes, car loan, child care, clothing) - stocks, bonds, RRSPs - BC Online: - Personal Property Reg. - Site Registry - Corporate Registry - BC Assessment - Land Titles - Rural Property Tax - Home Owner Grant (current and history of houses or property owned) - Skip Trace Unit (BC Hydro uses to search out of province driver's licence in Canada or U.S.) - Equifax (all credit information; an inquiry by Provincial Revenue does not show up in Equifax history sent to individual)

EDS record:

EDS ran the Medicaid rolls in Florida. It was widely reported in the media that in its first two years, EDS racked up $260 million in errors, failed to remove 235,000 ineligible people from the rolls, was blamed for $232 million worth of mistakes in the Aid for Dependent Children and Food Stamp programs. In Indiana, media reported an EDS computer system created a major backlog processing Medicaid claims. Reportedly, after one year, Indiana’s hospitals were on average 136 days behind in receiving Medicaid payments and nursing homes were owed $86 million in back claims. (source: Eye on Privateers, Sept. 1999 AFSCME).

In Texas, a state audit revealed the contractor that had administered the Medicaid program for 25 years overcharged the state by $31.3 million in 2002, and $20 million the previous year. The contractor, National Heritage Insurance Co., is a subsidiary of EDS Corp. - the parent company that the B.C. government is contracting to administer Provincial Revenue. The company lost the contract following a year-long probe by the Texas Attorney-General’s Office into alleged contract violations including overbilling, improperly hiding expenses, charging taxpayers for an executive’s luxury apartment, and questionable employee bonuses. (Knight-Ridder/Tribune, June 12, 2003). EDS reportedly racked up $260 million in errors when it failed to remove 235,000 ineligible people from the Medicaid rolls in Florida, and was blamed for $232 million worth of mistakes in the Aid for Dependent Children and Food Stamp programs (Eye on Privateers, September 1999, AFSCME).

EDS is also responsible for a flawed computer system to track international students as part of the tighter security measures in the U.S. that routinely loses sensitive information about foreign students and faculty. Schools have also been unable to print documents of international students and visiting scholars in order to obtain visas, impeding their entry into the country. A student from Thailand visiting a university in Washington, D.C. was arrested because the computer database incorrectly listed her as having dropped out. (Knight-Ridder/Tribune, March 17, 2003).

__

Education and Student Loans

UBC in the money http://www.ubyssey.bc.ca/article.shtml?/20040407/newsReview.htmlf

Excerpt: This year saw UBC get many millions richer through the generosity of major Canadian corporations and alumni.

In September, the faculty formerly known as Commerce morphed into the Sauder School of Business thanks to a $20 million cheque from former UBC Chancellor William Sauder. This ranks as the largest single donation ever to a Canadian business school.

The money was placed in an endowment, which will generate about $1 million in usable revenue for the school each year. The BC government will also be matching the money to create 125 new Commerce seats over the next five years.

The millions rained down on UBC again in October, but this time in the form of $240 million worth of specialised computer software for mechanical engineering. The donation was made by a consortium of General Motors, EDS and Sun Microsystems.

...

EDS Teams With ACS To Support U.S. Department of Education Common Services For Borrowers Student Loan Contract http://www.eds.com/news/news.aspx?news_id=1786

....

How to avoid a credit mess with your student loans

http://www.ubyssey.bc.ca/article.shtml?/20001031/su ingAgency.htmlf

so what's your point?

Thanks Kathy W. While Mr. Kilt would love to play center field, face it this is what we are up against as Kathy's comment reveals. The extreme right counts on the left to continue to play nice while they obliterate our civil and human rights, selling our province, our jobs and now our private information from out of our own hands. Not this time. Dictatorships happen because we allow them to happen.

A nice little piece of dirt from our friends at the BCGEU. Typical fear mongering all because the Union realizes that this deal will see them have less ability to hold the government hostage down the road to meet demands. An all to typical story. I am surprised that more people don't see this deal for what it really is - an assault on Unions, plain and simple. And the funny part, other than the left leaners that go ballistic over these things, the average joe could care less if there is less bureaucracy out there.

It is astonishing WELL KNOWN, everywhere outside of canwest media, that privatization schemes EVERYWHERE, in england, new zealand and in the third world under the WTO, the IMF, and the World bank, HAVE NEVER, resulted in anything other than a looting of the public good, as defined by both decent paying jobs and affordable services, by unfettered and unrestrained corporate greed. In england now, after the latest tony blair thirdway wrinkle to neoliberalism, paasenger have to disembark interurban trains and buy new tickets in London, because multiple corporations have divided up public transit as their private feifdoms. Neoliberal reforms were a disaster in new zealand, where neoliberal voodoo economics first took hold; and now has been thoroughly rejected and roundly condemned as a regressive era. An economics that ignores the good of the community to enrich a few undeserving, already priveleged shills for the economic fascism you keep insuring us all is so inevitable, is simply naked greed clothed in bloody, half transparent and torn garments. To learn of how argentina's middle class has be4en left banging pots and pans in the street after Enron, employed the wprld bank. the IMF, and other liberakizion r to loot the Argentine economy by triggering a meltdown that led to a fire sale at bargain, bargain basement prices of argentinian crown corporations, by reading greg palast's All the democracy money can buy. Then we have american republican "jobless recovreries" in legions, and bush has of course, both pimped out and ruined the american economy. As a lil' sidebar, gordon campbell and bush are going to be at the same dinner tomorrow night, i hope the media keeps watch, 'cause I'd hate to see gord scurrying around under the table cloth....

Great and informative posts by kathy w.

Mr. Lehay/Collins writes:"I am surprised that more people don't see this deal for what it really is - an assault on Unions, plain and simple."

You are correct Mr. Lehay/Collins, are you sure that's what you meant to say though? Judging from all your other post I suspect not.

Mr. Lahey, as I sit at the computer at the women's centre where I volunteer my time (I don't have a computer at home, can't afford it) I am astounded at the lack of compassion for the human element in this political war. Mr. Rotarian, with your high paying jobs, where are you when women go hungry to feed thier children? I've been watching for you on my 20" wooden framed TV (that was given to me by a neighbour). There's some food in the dog's dish, but not in mine...there are no cigarette butts (can't afford 'em, though the thought of a long suicide is kinda nice). If I had kids, I'd be afraid for them - though at 36, I don't have any (can't afford them). My chances at owning anything but the urn I'm stored in after I'm dead are almost nil (can't afford a house, an apartment, a trailer or even a car). This was not my choice. I know innumerable others in this same position - this was not thier choice. I work two part time jobs, volunteer my time for a social agency who's funds were 100% cut by the Provincial government, and paint pretty pictures on the side in the hopes that someone will like them and buy one. Think I'm uneducated? Think again - I spent many years in university and only a badly timed divorce kept me from my degree in cultural anthropology (and I can't afford to go back). There are more and more of the "between the cracks" families out there; how big does the crack have to be before you fall into it yourself, Mr. Lahey? Your cruelty is stunning, sir, and I wonder how you feel when your club forces you to have some heart. Bitter? Do you think your money is wasted when the Rotarians help someone? Did you ever think that perhaps the 27" TV, the PS2, or the empties are remnants of "success"? You, sir, are the clear representation of the greed of successful. Hang on to every miserly penny you have. You'll need it more than I will.

Well said, devil's advocate.

so what happened to you?

Mr Lahey------heard this said a long time ago. And apparently from the looks of it,it still stands today "People love success but hate successful people"

It's such a sad story. I'd really like to know what happened to Devils Advocate!

devil's advocate: I think you are the real definition of success. Your comment is filled with intelligence, courage and real heart. As said before on this site: "Don't let the bastards get you down."

That is a powerful post re contracting out government services. This is the kind of stuff the NDP has to get out to the public, however I doubt that they have the wherewithall or drive to get the message out. This is supposed to be Vaughan Palmer's area in the Sun, however integrity isn't a priority for columnists covering the political arena, if they want to keep their jobs with CanWest.

Kathy W., my belif is that we need to get the tyee as well known as possible, by putting in plugs for it in as many other media as possible. Thanks, for the excellent information you provided. I am trying to get out the info, in shreck's column that the bc liars knew about the upcoming $1.2 billion dollars in equalization payments, from easily available info posted on federal government websites, and still made the $70 million cuts to the most vulnerable in bc's ministry of children and famolies anyway. I have had some limited success getting this info out on canwest sound-off posts. We need to increase the readership of the tyee by the next provincial election, so that tyee articles and posts have some chance of affecting the outcome.

Leave devil's advocate alone, binette. Other people's misfortunes are not fodder for your disgusting voyeurism!

Your idea of "successful," and decent people's idea of success is no doubt at wide variance, mr See: gulled.

what on earth are you on Lewis. Stupid pills?

If I'm on stupid pills, jean , you cowardly, little back-stabbing piece of nothing, then you'e on a 24-7, 365 a year supersized portions of pure b.s. You're pathetic, you think you're a gadfly , but outhouse fly is a far more accurate description. Keep chompin' binnette, till even your kin stand stand the sight or smell of you...

"...Till even your kin can't stand the sight or stench of you...'

How do we get off topic? Is BC being sold off or not?

I think we're right back at Bruce's big hairy eyeball. And Yes Burgess, it is.

i am afraid, burgess that bc is not just being sold off, it is being pimped out, raped, plundered, and looted, all in that great pyramid or ponzi scheme, known as neoliberal economics, where the next person to pay into the chainletter and get sold out for their trouble, is roaring at top speed up the broken chain letter links...of course, in the top five percent of the population, the wisdom of the market place is a never ending source of loted wealth, which is the essence of the neoliberal lie, unfortunately, for the other 95% of the population who get sold out, sooner or later, the wisdom of the market place ends by taking back 10 times the benefit derived, if it doesn't end by killing you outright. A particularly disgusting feature of neoliberalism is the way the chain letter works, ALWAYS TARGETTING THOSE AT THE BOTTOM FIRST, then moves up through the social and economic heirarchy...first the so-called taxcuts get snatched back, and then all too often, those who paid into the chainletter, so full of cheap and tawdry lies appealing to only greed and small-minded psuedo virtues, find themselves in an untenable situation, like a middle class person in the usa losing everything they had because their medical plan turns out to be charade written with deadpan humour by soulless lawyers... as william s. burroughs would put it, neoliberals are nova criminals, pimping or sellling the ground out from under unborn feet forever, as:

"Street gangs, uranian born of nova conditions, get out and fight for your streets...Cut all tape. SHIFT cut tangle voice lines of the earth. Know about the Board's "Green Deal?" They (neoliberals) plan to board the first life boat in drag, and leave their "human dogs" under the white hot skies of Venus. "Operation Sky Switch," also known as "Operation Total Disposal."

Pardon me if you will, Burgess, I just felt like getting a trifle literary tonight. You should post more often Burgess, your posts always show intelligence and insight.

Interpretation - Welfare good - Work bad!

Welfare is not much of a life, Jean. Welfare recipients are not going to live a life of luxury like Gordon Campbell and his careless Marie-Antoinette friends.

Welfare is there for those who cannot find work if they have disabilities, are mentally ill, cannot find work after expiration of Employment Insurance benefits after working at EA, etc. Decent paying work is always better.

I didn't read it all but it would seem the arguments that the Right or the Left present that believe they have the whole thing down pat. I guess there are no possible counter opinions to those of the left or the right or that matter none even from within either end of the political spectrum. I guess your either left or right...no grey here. One thing I get a kick out of is how the right always uses the argument...provide your facts...the right never gives them. The right always cry the blues when any one remotely suggests something socially responsible or social democratic. If fact it makes their sphincters tighten to the point they need to go vacuum the car or shopping for something to take their minds off the torment. The left always gives away to much information to defend our points...the left gives the right all the arguments up front. Once you give the point they keep you busy gathering the facts to support the arguments they prefer the left focus on. The right in the mean time uses the arguments and facts of the left, in any of the many media outlets they own, so they can keep us busy with trying to get our points across on a lot of non-issues. If you remember the counter culture of the 60s and the 70s were leftists in the position the rights are in now politically and physically. The left asked the questions then didn't have to provide the answers. We made the points and we paid little attention to what the right thought about those arguments. We just let the movements grow! Things got done not committees to death and politicians were there to support. They were until the counter culture became the right wing as they aged and sold out. I guess the right has flipped the table and they are asking the questions that keep us all busy looking for smoking guns. They have lots of experience since many learnt the ways of the wise from Gurus of the left. The real smoking guns are pointed where the right accuses people of conspiracy theories. Hey just let me think for a minute. Conspiracy, doesn't that mean some people get together and think a plot out that will let them achieve their end goals but hoodwinks the public into thinking their best interests have taken into account. Mhhh.... well I would think any potential conspiracy theory must have some truth to it for it even to get to the first two people discussing it. People don't just sit down to plot a conspiracy without some motive. You don't need JFK, Cuba, Iraq, Central America and South America to get an idea conspiracy theories actually exist...you just need to look out the window at Beautiful British Columbia the best place on earth to be living. Those ads certainly make me feel so good about being British Columbian that I can hardly think about Albertan right wing business taking over our province for their American interests. I guess the only thing bad in the right’s eyes is when those conspiracies become public and no longer are able to be labelled conspiracies theories. I wonder after it all where the BC Rail deal and Gordon Campbell’s liberals will fall in the history of conspiracies and theories.

An interesting take, steve, and I agree entirely that the right has usurped many of the tactics, and even the language of the left. Campbell often talks about "communities," but when it's time for funding those communities, all of a sudden it's SUSTAINABLE communities. Gingrich and others in the states did the same thing with the word "revolution," which became a rightwing revolution. You should post on fresher and more widely read threads than this, as you have some good ideas, and express them well...

your story is to dang long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!