Yes this article will get the rabid NDP'ers who frequent this place yipping and yapping. Ought to be hilarious. But to correct a few things Observer the logging industry on Vancouver Island is, well not quite booming, but definitely heating up, very few loggers are going without work thanks to very high lumber prices. Victoria still has a very hot job market with an unemployment rate lowest in the province, not that I feel any sympathy for yuppie bureaucrats. Not much I can say about homeless kids on granville street except to say there are programs for them that will help them get off the street and no, such programs have not been decimated by the Liberals, they are still there and readily available. Pot growers, busted or not, all love BC. Well maybe the busted ones a little less. Besides it does not matter which government is in power they all spin numbers to make themselves look good, nothing new there.

Here's an item in my blog today that I'm sure will fascinate David Schreck--"Western provinces to lead Canadian growth in 2004-05"--http://weblogs.macleans.ca/dailypressreview/

Hey LTRB, I'm neither yipping nor yapping. I'm simply telling you what I see, and what I see is a commercial that has no substance. Who REALLY loves this place, anyways, besides a few Kits yuppies who can't stop staring at the mountains, and maybe the odd welfare collector on Vancouver Island. The NDP and Liberals have combined, and possibly conspired, to turn British Columbia into a cesspool of criminal activity, homelessness, clearcuts, unemployment, relatively low wages, high taxes, and deteriorating quality of life. Have you seen the people in the ad who claim they "love this place". They look like they've been either paid off, or worse yet, are one of Gordon Campbell's lackeys. If British Columbians really "loved this place" they wouldn't need millions of tax dollars of propaganda to tell them so.

I love this 'place', but I hate the liars and plunderers in the present government who are working so hard to destroy it. Let's face it, the scenery is probably the only thing that makes living here worthwhile, because it sure isn't the cost of living, job market, housing starts, education, health care or anything else these Campbell conservatives are trying to congratulate themselves over.

It doesn't seem to matter what party is in power the basic rule of thumb is to spend tax money to stay in power. The basic ethos is "I'm in power, so I make the rules, do what I bloody well please and to hell with the rest of you.

I seriously doubt residents of the North are to happy with B.C. most I have talked to are planning on leaving if they still have a vehicle. The northeast is busy but you have to go to Alberta to get hired. I still refuse to be lured into looking at spectors web page he should be fishing for hits on canada.com where they think like him.

well it sure didn't take long to pull our posts!

Actually Vic, I blog on the Maclean's site, not cancom. Just want to make sure you Tyee readers don't drown drinking your own bath water. Hell, even Schreck reads Vaughn Palmer regularly. Here's what he and Les Leyne are writing about Northern BC today: LEYNE There's one key difference between the B.C. Liberals' "northern development initiative" and all the other northern development initiatives that have wafted through northern B.C. in past generations. That's money. Trainloads of money. Money on a scale that makes previous northern economic development projects look like kids' birthday goody bags. All the funds are coming from CN's purchase of the B.C. Rail operation. If they ship it in hard cash, it will take every rail car the new outfit has and then some. That volume of cash will have two effects. First: somehow, somewhere, it will do some good. You just can't concentrate that kind of money in one region without doing some good. And second: it will mute the criticism of the B.C. Rail deal, which turned into a much bigger, much more serious issue than the Liberals ever thought it would. PALMER The B.C. Liberals moved Wednesday to begin dispensing the proceeds from BC Rail to the area most affected by the deal. The government tabled legislation setting up a $135-million northern development fund and a $15-million benefit fund for first nations. Both measures provided for the province to deliver control of the dollars to locally established boards. The bill for the Northern Development Initiative Trust establishes four regional advisory committees, staffed with local mayors, regional district chairs and members of the legislature. Every community of more than 500 souls in the area served by BC Rail -- from Prince George (pop. 76,000) to Clinton (pop. 655) -- will have at least one representative. Some of those local politicians, to be sure, have been supportive of the B.C. Liberals.

I remember when the NDP had some sort of Northern Development organization here, pooh-poohed by the Liberal Opposition as typical inefficient government intervention in what should be a free-enterprise heaven. The money was inadequate, since the NDP was afraid of the right-wing political spin. Now the Liberals sold off a multi-hundred million dollar asset (that earned its keep by serving the region); the North gets a fraction of the sales price back as development money. Talk about a bundle of contradictions. Government is still going to run the disbursements, etc., (how free enterprise is that?), and the really big money from the sale of a northern asset will be spent sprucing up the Liberals' budget record to help them into another term. The North loses a 'billion dollar' railway in order to get $135 million in bribe money. I'm surprised we aren't dancing in the streets up here in Terrace.

Re: Jobs, Job openings and blah blah. The Liberal ad which references the work of economist Roslyn Kunin is quite misleading. David Schreck is correct 'job openings' over ten years does not equal jobs created. Secondly, with respect to jobs created - one needs to ask what type of jobs are these, how many are the $6 sucks variety, how many are part-time, how many are full-time, what is the breakdown by age and by region of this province. Further, service sector jobs...which we have aplenty in the urban areas of BC...provide insufficient monies to raise a family, wtih 'zip' spin-off or multiplier effects. Thirdly, lets do some subtraction here: how many jobs has BC lost due to BC Fiberal cut-backs of cut-backs and closurs, how many jobs lost due to massive log exports - which is a bloody shame etc. With respect to MacLeans citing the tremendous "growth' possibilities in Western Canada...look no further than the oil/gass sector ...booming due to demand and high prices and also, construction sector growth due to low interest rates - none of which is caused by the BC Liberals. As for the Northern Development Initiative Trust, to be based in Prince George, with $135 million, and also the First Nations Trust with $15 ---all cut from the BCR sale---in my mind it made no sense to privatize a Crown asset...which future generations of Northerners & the entire province could have benefitted from for generations. As to creating Regional Trusts and funding them..."soup & co" ...are copying the Columbia Basin Trust idea established by the NDP...and touted significantly around BC by myself during the last NDP leadership campaign as a good model to be duplicated throughout all the regions of BC. The fact is, there is a political power and fiscal imbalance in BC...between the 'regions/municipalities/regions"...and the centralized Provincial Crown...and that dysfunctional instutional set-up is in no way modified by this 'gift' by 'soup & co". The Executive Branch of government as representative of the Provincial Crown located in Victoria ...runs this province like a colony. Money is 'nice'....but what the regions & mayors need, and the people of BC that reside in those regions, is real political power to off-set Victoria and the Provincial Crown. If First Nations want land & resources and self-government ....why not the people in each of the regions of BC...then they can keep the resources rents', decide their own social/economic development path...and put Victoria and all those city politicians on a 'bake -sale' budget....and get rid of more than half of the bureaucrats in Victoria to boot. That is the problem...fiscal and political power imbalance within BC...and 'soup & co" haven't an economic idea going except to sell everything ...which is dispossession by privatization. Too bad CJ and the Provincial NDP didn't upstart the BC Liberals by proposing a private members bill to have Regional Trusts in every region of those province.....opportunity missed....oh, well...there will be others! However, I bet other regions will be clamouring for Regional Development Trusts" too...and $100 million seed-money....and so they should and a lot more too!!

Further on Northern UnDevelopment during the last 3.5 years ...'soup & co" - after selling the assets of Skeena Kraft for chump-change...have let the municipalities and workers of the north dangle in no-where land as that private sector company failed to get it going ...and is now in receivership according to the Vancouver Sun....and then there are the log -exports from the region too...so much for jobs lost! P. Dimitrov

I wrote to Premier Campbell specifically requesting what the budget is for "Achieve BC", he did actually repond to my query but did not answer my question just like a professional! Here's his repsonse... Thank you for your letter regarding government advertising in British Columbia. I can assure you that our government understands the importance of keeping costs down while we work to get clear messages out to the people of this province. The public service messaging we do is always informative and tries to help British Columbians to better understand the issues or the programs associated with those issues. We believe that it is essential that British Columbians know what we are doing on their behalf. We want to be sure the message is clear and we want to show British Columbians that their input has been effective. As I travel around this province people tell me they don't have a clear idea about what we are doing as government. This is why we feel it is critical to keep the public informed about these things. You may be interested to know that the Public Affairs Bureau provides funding for government advertisements through its communications budget. I can assure you that no money is diverted from other government programs or services to pay for advertising. Again, thanks for writing to share your views with me. Sincerely, Gordon Campbell Premier

the letter to Randall Adams is a good example of Gordon Campbell out and out lying. The money in the "communications" budget is from the same pocket as everything else. What a crock! He has lots of money for what he and his wealthy friends want, like the Olympics and huge tax cuts for the rich. The rest of us can just keep paying and listening to how greedy we all are wanting services and how that "just can't continue..."

I want to know if les leyne is a card carrying liberal, some of the stuff he writes is so pro liberal it makes me ill, I quit reading the times colonist because of him. I like jack knox but will not support any paper that allows the kind of rhetoric leyne and the editorial page writer come up with. Give me the news and let me form my own opinion thanks. Northerners are hurting and nothing gordo will do can help them, I suspect his friends and supporters will do very well but I doubt the average person trying to survive up there will see any of that money

oops meant to share this quote! There is no such thing, at this date of the world’s history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it… The business of the Journalist is to destroy truth; To lie outright; To pervert; To vilify; To fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals for rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and or lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes. – John Swinton, former Chief of Staff, The New York Times, circa 1880

Vick, Would those be the same T-C editors who hired Tyee contributor Barb McClintock to work with Sean Holman in breaking the Doug Walls story?

I wish the tyee would post more of david shreck's excellent articles. I would also like to know how many of the new jobs created by the most open and accountable pack of back-stabbing liars the province has ever seen are one day or less, Labour Ready or Labour Unlimited construction jobs paying $8 an hour or less after deductions. You can also bet that any of that 135 million that finds its way north will find its way to gordon campbell friendly cheats like doug walls, and no doubt any bc mayor's that supported gordon backstabber's safe streets act. The bc liars should be sued for their waste of public funds in fraser institute neomath bafflegab, like the claim last year that bc's economy was the fastest growing "AS A PERCENTAGE." Of course it was , because any increase in a low number, like the pathetically low rate of economic growth in bc shows up as a higher percentage increase than in a healthy, economically viable number, like the 4% annual growth experienced frequently under the ndp, SIMPLY BECAUSE WE'RE DEALING WITH A LOW NUMBER IN THE FIRST PLACE. DUHHHH!!!!

Vic, much as I hate to agree with the specter of norman the victoria timescolonist, fawning erditorials, often written by the sun's ian haysome and les liar's obsequetious musings not withstanding, the colonist does have a fairer letters page and articles by sean holman, adrian dix, and others, unlike the utterly corrupt vancouver sun. However, thhis all came about largely out of plummetting circulation rates and an outraged local populace's continual complaint, not out of any inherent virtues of any editor. The "SOUND-OFF" feature is however vulnerable to infiltration in all three newspapers, and can be approached anonymously. I agree with you that right wing posters like norman spectre, who refuse to respond to their critics, not unlike the government in victoria, appear to be gettting special treatment at the tyee, and even half expecting this post to be deleted...let's have an article against the latest virulent spawn of the bc liar's -the-criminalize-the-poor-and-remake-formerly-harmless people-into-outlaws-act, oh sorry, I mean the "safe streets act" my god the manufactured pathology we're going to see from that piece of legislation! Please keep making your tyee posts, vic, we need them more then ever -best wishes -ls

As a political junky I try to stay fairly informed and open minded of governments and policy. I can't necessarily speak to the accuracy of Shrek's numbers vs. the accuracy of the governments numbers because I am neither a policy wonk or a statistician. I will say however that I tend to put more stock in a, somewhat independent, journalists numbers than our current governments spin machine.

As to you Norman Spector, if you are the real Norman Spector, you are a shameless self-promoter. I run my own business and could constantly link my company's webpage on this site but realize how crass this really is. Furthermore when you refer to "us NDP" Tyee readers you are making a grave mistake, many of us are very critical of the NDP. I will make a bold claim and state that generally Tyee readers are much more intelligent and informed than your average CTV watcher or Vancouver Sun/Province reader. We seek alternative points of view and look at the facts as they are presented. I think you are mistaking the compassion of people on these posts with political partisanship, most of us are well educated and informed and care about things like the environment, human rights, and equality in society. Most of us see the current BC government for what it is, a corporate backed mean spirited neo-con attack on common people. We disagree with tax cuts for the wealthy and $6 training wages. We disagree with the tearing up of negotiated contracts and we disagree with cuts to health care and education. But please be aware that this does not make us NDP supporters, we choose to disagree with a government which would commoditize the values which are intrinsic to the Canadian way of life and we value caring and compassionate leadership.

The point..if we can go back to that...the ads are misleading , inaccurate , and can only be viewed as pre election positioning..being paid for by you and I ...after being told Liberals would never do this!!! My fav is the education one...sure..lots of new spots..but are they funding them ? course not...meaning higher tuition and larger classes and whats this/ most of the " new " spots were in Campbells own riding....what a shocker.

IF BC is the "best place to live" it would seem unlikely that an advertising campaign would be necessary to sell it. Wouldn`t the experience of being here sell itself. Or are we paying for ads in other parts of Canada, or the rest of the world as well? And, if I remember correctly, didn`t Gordon Liar tell us a few years ago, in the case of Health Care, that he wouldn`t spend our hard earned tax dollars on ads about Health Care? I guess he just plain forgot. Just what does this cost us Gord?

Norm yes the same TC whose editor stated on Shaw that he was politically right of center, (read liberal?) the same paper that saved gordos butt after he made the choice to get into a vehicle and drive while drunk. Didn't you say on VI but for the grace of god there go I? Had this been an NDP back bencher the media would have forced the person to resign. Remember the weekly rants by joe easingwood who is no friend of the left in the months leading up to the last election, no bias there eh! Yes they did hire McClintock but had this been a story about the NDP I seriously doubt the issue would have gone away for a long time, where is the honest number crunching by the media about gordo’s claims B.C. is the best place to live, using taxpayer money to tell us how wonderful the liberals are in hopes of getting re-elected. If this was the left the cynic in me thinks it would likely be in court by now! I consider the media to be very biased, fortunately we have other sources besides canwest I rarely read canwest now I don’t need to I can go online. If the media had been unbiased in the months before the last election would the liberals have won 77 seats? Probably not, they (media) had most people convinced that the NDP had driven us into bankruptcy when the auditor general had said differently, gordo sold the fast cats at a huge loss and got away with it, thanks to the media and sadly they are the voice most people listen to when forming an opinion on our politicians and their policies! Most people I know have been hurt by the tax breaks given to the rich in this Province cut backs and clawbacks, I for one will not forgive gordo for hurting the poor and elderly come May!

Hey, Geek. It is indeed the real Norman Spector. Knowing how to read is a pre-requisite to seeking out alternative views: "us NDP" Tyee readers is your term not mine. I expressed concern that you're drinking your own bathwater and, frankly, I see more diversity in the Globe and Mail and several other newspapers I read daily than I see in the Tyee.

John: Great point about those "DecieveBC", AchieveBC ads, especially about those supposed "new" spots in post-education that are not backed up by funding. Same misleading way this government is magically creating "new" universities. They scratch out the word "college" on the sign and write in "university."

Hey Vick, That's exactly the same T-C editor I'm referring to. A guy who has the honesty to state his political views clearly--and who has Adrian Dix and Sean Holman as columnists and blows open the Walls story. A guy who just canned Joe Easingwoood and offered Jodi Patterson a weekly column when she decided to leave the paper. Come to think of it, that's a lot more diversity than I see in the Tyee.

Hmmm... strange I could have swore that I saw you write something about NDP readership in a previous post Mr. Spector. Upon further investigation I cannot find it again, it may have been a figment of my pre-coffee imagination. In any case I don't agree with you about diversity of views, in the case of Canwest you can't say that when they throw in a Vaughn Palmer here or a Stephen Hume there that they have variety?!?! Overall they have a neo-con agenda, it's very obvious. And lets have a discussion about the "Mop and Pail", at one time it was a trusted news source for myself but in the past few years I find it to be less and less relevant. Oh sure they get the big names writing guest editorials, but how about Jeffery Simpson? He sure has been ranting about throwing more money at health care ad naseum. And when was the last time you saw one of those anonymous editorials in either the Sun or Province not take either a populist view of an issue or perhaps even offer a balanced view? And don't even get me started about the premier's brother writing in the province, what a waste of ink and paper.

What other newspapers are you talking about?

All media, including the Tyee, have their biases. Some more than others. The only protection is to read widely, in as many languages as possible, and compare the coverage.

It would appear that you at least read the Tyee Norman. That is a good thing.

Agree.

I disagree, Norman. In the past it was illegal to print lies and distortions. Fine newpapers existed that included fact-finders who were not threatened with discipline or firing for telling a truth that the ultra-rich owners didn't want communicated. It was also a matter of fact that a newpaper was obligated, legally to print all letters to the editor, unless they contained blatant mistruths, profanity etc. As a former advisor to the ultra-right Socreds, I would put you in the category of the "anything for a buck" "no social conscience, no desire to see democracy and no desire to see fairness for taxpayers" exactly the same as Gordon Campbell. You talk a good line and probably stay just away from the point that you could be sued for lying and cheating. Your opinion means little to any sane, intelligent individual who knows the history of politics in this province. You are simply a right-wing parrot of boys on howe street. Maybe someday something will affect you and turn you from a cold calculating creep into a caring individual, but I, for one, won't be holding my breath. It's beyond me how people like yourself can sleep at night knowing the pain you have inflicted on the provinces most unfortunate.

So according to Jeff Barkley, "in the past", whenever that was, the newspapers only printed "the truth" and they were "obligated, legally" to print all letters to the editor. What planet are you on, Jeff? This is just factually and historically wrong. Flat wrong and ridiculous. I'll bet you believe the weather was better and food tasted better back then, too, in the good old days you long for. This is a fascinating exchange for what it says about the Tyee posters' group-think mentality. As soon as someone like Spector gets involved, all you can do is insult him ("cold, calculating creep", etc. etc.) and try to throw him off the island so you can all be morally righteous lefties together. Constantly yapping about diversity, then screaming in pain as soon as someone disagrees. Pathetic.

Right on. No wonder the NDP is going to crash and burn next spring despite Campbell's stupidities. The left is so totally in love with its victim status that it would rather lose and spend four more years moaning that the stupid populace is under the spell of the Canwest villains and so on and on and on.....

hey thomas and selma, so you like the drunk? I am an old socred who never voted NDP until the right got to greedy and corrupt, I am from this Province and remember all the scams and corruption my father is 81 and born in the North we talk all the time of the corruption. There was two wild kelowna boys remember that well if you don't it was about two spoiled brats making a lot of money at the taxpayers expense. That annoyed me and I haven't voted for the socreds since! I didn't like bill bennet and I don't like spector I won't insult him much but I have no respect what so ever. I know what his role was and he like gordo hurt a lot of people with his policies so don't be surprised when people from b.c. get a little annoyed with the likes of spector he was also part of brian mulroonys regime and caused some suffering there as well! I will vote NDP until a better party comes along, unfortunatly a lot of folks fell for the medias rhetoric and gave gordo 77 seats instead of a slight majority which would have worked and a lot of good people have been hurt. I am talking about northerners mostly as I am one and know their stories! I am not a leftie I am a pissed off British Columbian!

a quote from Bryan D. Palmer’s Solidarity: The Rise & Fall Of An Opposition In British Columbia (sound familiar?) Influenced by right-wing ideologues and a notorious local ‘‘think tank’’ for social retrenchment, the ruling Social Credit party under William Bennett in that year launched a vicious, across-the-board attack on social services, education, minority rights and the trade unions. Under the quaint rubric of ‘‘downsizing’’ government, Bennett’s July budget and package of 26 bills eliminated whole categories of social services, abolished the Human Rights Commission and rent controls, drastically increased class sizes in public schools, and virtually ended all the rights and functions of public-sector trade unions, among other things. The government wanted 1600 public service layoffs and the right to fire public workers without cause. As Palmer puts it, ‘‘In one devastating blow Bennett and the Socreds sought to liberate capital from the fetters of the post-war settlement,’’ in which containment of the class struggle was achieved in exchange for legalized collective bargaining, unemployment insurance and other social services.

this is actually in a review by Chris Knox but it still makes the point that gordo is doing exactly what bennet did, and spector was working with bennet at the time!

self-propoganda boasting in delusions of grandeur - how American of our Liberals.... I believe they are following the eddict which proposes that if you beat it into them like a hypnotic chant, we'll believe it. Yes, there are weapons of mass destruction - we need to protect our free nation and our oil stocks. Yes, there are millions of new jobs in B.C - as soon as we get drilling into our oceans for our oil stocks. Any smudging of the truth is a fault of intelligence.

That paragon of diverse viewpoints you so admire, norman spectre, canwest "media," is today running a disgusting puff piece about just hoew much Ralph Klein admires gordon campbell, along with no drunken musings lauding our drunk, gordon liar. Can you imagine the uproar if a carol james piece, based on truth rather than lies, praising manitoba's ndp premier, gary doer, who unlike klein or campbell has created a strong economy not based on canwest lies, windfall oil revenues, or having a fire sale of crown corporations to pay for a useless and unneccesary taxcut for the rich, appeared in canwest pages? It'll never happen of course, and the sun's refusal to do it's job in a supposed democracy and give carol james a voice and a chance to rebutt their endless LIES, will undoubtedly lead to the sun falling on to the auction block as its circulation continues to plummet.

The sun in the early eighties had an intelligent and well written saturday supplement, and far greater fairness and accuracy. It is currently a newspaper unfit for a diarhetic vulture to empty its bowels upon, with its constant fraser pimpstitute editorials, with the tiny bylines at the bottom, its cowardly attacks by phil hockstein, who actually dared to talk about an ndp "hidden agenda," after threee and a half years of the bc liar hidden agenda, that has essentially used an uncampaigned upon taxcut for the rich as a bludgeon to rewrite the social contract, attack the most vulnerable without mercy and an excuse for a firesale on bc crown corporations to the endlesss sycophantic applause of the editors you so admire, norm. Let's face it the vancouver sun is a disgrace to the democratic process.

The tyee, featuring as it often does articles by conservatives the likes of will mcmartin, has infinitely less bias than canwest media, including, the times colonist. What really bothers rightwing posters on the tyee is that their stale, disproved lies recieve neither currency nor patience. I still await a convincing argument from the right on any subject; but the right no longer has either the stomach or the integrity for debate -its only interests are spreading propaganda and lies, and unless it has a setup behind it like that on canwest editorial page, the squeeking of its timorous lies fall inevitably into retreat...

This is rich: Over in the Carole James thread, I'm arguing with some guy who says "She shouldn't say anything to rock the boat....like Bennett...your answer to everything will be a simple phrase while smirking." Over here, he's Darth Vader. Here's a fact: Bill Bennett was the last premier to be re-elected in this province. He did so, against a hostile media, because the NDP had the albatross of public sector unions around its neck. That's Gordon Campbell's biggest asset today. Two more things: I was the first columnist to break open the Official Oppostion issue after the election. Re Mulroney, check out this book reviewed in last Saturday's Globe. (http://www.mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1759) It was re

hey lewis you are right about hochstein I suspect he would like to have everyone in construction working for minimum wage! To many of the kids working in construction are working for employment agencies who take half their wage, the kids get $7.50, green hats! No surprise young people don’t want to get into construction. Did you know the non-union contractor kerkhoff, the one winning all the big government contracts when bennet and spector were running things was reported to be 51% in bill bennets wifes name? I think it was in the book Tough Guy The taking of British Columbia.

hey norm are you trying to tell me tony parsons was hostile to bennet, now that is rich! Rafe mair hostile to the socreds??? CKNW?

Interesting, vick, thanhs for telling me. Maybe if norm ever had the courage to respond directly to a point, instead, of immediately attempting to change the subject(a ubiquitous tactic of the right these days), or worse, norm, promote yourself, you might gain a little more respect.

Some GOOD news for the ndp today; it seems a right wing coalition capable of splitting some of gordon liar's vote has just formed made up of that disgruntled cache creek mayor's faction, bc reform, and other groups. There attempting to bill themselves as a centrist party but I doubt that is how they will be perceived...either way, vote splitting on the right. Yippee!!

TYEE EDITOR:Next saturday, october 16, the vote on Vancover's having a ward system takes place. AS this represents a Cope initiative and therefore could only be good for both Cope and the ndp, why does the tyee not have an article on wards. A victory on wards will ensure local representatives for local issues, democracy at the community level, surely an issue for both cope and the ndp. A victory on this will give the provincial ndp election momentum. Vancouver Tyee readers, please take note and vote for wards.

On another note, could we please have some coverage of the so-called safe streets act. We need this badly as we have numerous bc liberals panhandling our crown corporations for nickels and dimes to the americans -this socially disruptive behavior must cease!

That albatross of public unions that Norman Spector alludes to contributes less than 5% of the funding to the NDP. A convenient fact that is continually overlooked. Unions, have in fact behaved notoriously fickle towards the NDP - all those government workers that voted for Campbell and his promise to not eliminate their jobs are probably all driving cabs these days. And just for the record, you don't think the right-wing has their unions? All those business contacts, banking friends, and the most detestable word in the english language - "networking". Those net works, those friends, those chamber of commerces are the biggest unions in this province. They are the sly and greedy albatross of their own creation and one fine day the weight of that greed will sink them and the Campbell crew.

I suppose it's easier for many on the Left to blow smoke or live in hope than to do the hard work necessary to win elections. Notwithstanding lynn smith's posting, I believe that a majority of voters who go to the polls in May 2005 will understand that a vote for the NDP is a vote to turn over the treasury to public sector trade unions; zero-zero-zero deals done in the backrooms that end up costing hundreds of millions. As to the new party, Vaughn Palmer writes today, "And if they ever get their act together, I'm sure they'll get back to us with a name, a leader and a platform. Until then, and notwithstanding the entertainment value, I'm thinking it is time to impose a moratorium on these speculations. Let's face it: the NDP blew it in selecting Carole James, rather than someone like Andrew Petter or Moe Sihota who would have eaten Gordon Campbell for lunch.

Also excellent article and website, David Schreck. lewis swift makes an excellent point above - Just don't panhandle if you're poor because then you're a criminal and a social outcast. However, if you're one of the business suit brigade and you panhandle our province for nickels and dimes, you don't go to jail, you get to pass Go, and you finally land oh so fortuitously on Park Place. Eventually, you even become director of the monopoly board and receive the prized "gold squeegee " and of course, some funny money on the side.

Good points Lynn for example united association of plumbers and pipefitters, union yes? Look in the yellow pages under association and you will see the B.C. medical association, bc construction association, canadian home builders association, canadian taxpayers federation, construction association of victoria to mention a few on the right! UNION 1.the act of joining together people or things to form a hole. ASSOCIATION 1. a group of people or organizations joined together for a purpose. Union is such a dirty word, yet associations are such a wonderful group of peoplel The professional and business associations seem to get respect for lobbying and affecting social change (usually to the detriment of the average person) while the trade unions are looked upon as some kind of vermin. Many people today can thank the labour movement for the conditions they work under, and their relatively high standard of living, unfortunately most are too ungrateful or deluded to acknowledge this reality. What have the taxpayers or the chambers done for the average person in B.C.? Not much that I know of yet they are respected by most people and quoted on a regular basis, if you look at their web pages you will see what I am talking about! The fraser institute has been preaching their neo-con view for years now and if you compare them with gordo or his brother you will see where his policies are coming from. Lets not forget the vancouver board of trade, another organization which has lobbied gordo very successfully. Didn’t they criticize chretien for not sending our troops to die in Iraq?

Lewis Swift, that splinter group you're Yippeeing over sounds to me the wishful dreams of a couple of ''good'' Liberals who haven't been given whatever they think they are entiteld to. I wouldn't hold my breath expecting Cache Creek mayor John Ranta to lead the charge against Gordo. Ranta, who is also involved in regional district politics up here in the hurtlands, was among that hive of rural politicians who got mixed up in operations on the McLure Fire last year, and in my opinion, caused more problems than they solved. Much of the energy of officials in the first couple of days of that fire were exerted trying to keep the media away rather than any meaningful fire suppresion. He is also a failed nominee for the Liberals in the past two provincial elections. Like his name implies, Ranta isn't shy abour being verbose, but other than steering a very controversial GVRD landfill site into his desperate little community a decade or so ago, he hasn't exactly been an organizational giant.

Correction to my last posting and an apology: I omitted the closing quotation marks in citing Palmer The quote ends with "I'm thinking it is time to impose a moratorium on these speculations." The remainder is pure me.

Pure you, norm, or cut with that white neoliberal snort the fraser institute gang pushes?? -just a little joke at your expense...thanks, norm I needed that...Yeah, allan I may have ben overly gleeful, but I understand from the colonist article there are at least three or four other minor parties in the grabbag also...but there must be a lot of disgruntled rural reactionaries out there...I thought ranta was the minor hero of the great cache creek dont-dump-the-rotting-chicken-carcasses-here battle, but I could be misinformed, I'm not ecstatic, but any news like that is probably good news in a close, polarized election like the next one -isn't it funny, allan, how a polarized electorate so very often results in a fifty/fifty split -the last american and canadian elections(martin's collective opposition is about 50%) and the 96 bc election. Small edges could be important, although in politics, who knows?

things seem to have really improved since gordon quit drinking. if the b.c. economy isn't nice, what is?

pilgrim I think it depends on which side of the economic equation you are on doesn’t it, the richer you are the better life is in lotus land in the new era, the parts north of Hope are hurting except for the Northeast, might have to spend time and money in Alberta to get a job up there! The so called good economic news coming from gordo and his media friends is not so rosy if you spend some time on the stats canada page or start here, he has all the statscan links posted if you want to see for yourself. http://strategicthoughts.com/record2004/growth.html

Lewis S., you're right , of course. Ranta did join in on the don't dump your dead birds here group that opposed sending Fraser Valley chickens and turkey to Cache Creek during the avian flu scare. But then, so did an awful lot of people this side of Hope who really didn't appreciate the science behind shipping such potentially lethal meat out of the the FV rather than having it dealt with where the problem arose. To be honest, I'm still waiting for a rational argument on that one too. So you do remember well, and if you are as old as I suspect you are you will no doubt remember in the late '80s when Cache Creek became known as Trash Creek as opponents of the plan to haul Lower Mainland waste into the Interior unsuccessfully fought Ranta and other supporters. Here again, I'm still optimistically holding my breath 15 years later, certain that the science of hauling waste out of the region where it was generated will be fully explained to me. Lewis, I appreciate that you and other Lower Mainlanders may well see this from a different light than I given which way that trash travels, but I am sure you'll agree that continuing to simply throw dirt over our waste isn't going to eliminate any of it. I'd love to blame Ranta's Liberals for the mega-landfill, but I can't. That honour goes to the former Socred government when current Kamloops Liberal MLA and House Speaker Claude Richmond was the Socred Environment minister. Ok, so maybe I can. Small edges do count, so don't lose the enthusiasm when you see a crack in the opponents armour. But be careful of politicians who show up at popular causes just in time to grab the headlines.

I am indeed a baby boomer, allan. I think that hauling toxic material all over the countryside, especially to rural areas where our food comes from is beyond stupid, -braindead, really. What an interesting connection to Claude Richmond, who has to be the most ineffectual and corrupt bc legislature house speaker ever. The chicken dump fiasco isn't too surprising I suppose when you consider that the entire approach of this government has been downloading one jurisdiction's problems on to another's -preferably a jurisdiction that can't fight back, due to the way the bc liars have "fixed" conditions -the fix is always there for the bc backstabbers. Shreck's article of today proves definitively that bc has had an economic growth rate of less that .4% since december 2003, while canada's economic growth on the whole has been more than one percent, or two and one half times that of bc's. Can't we sue these scum for this outrageous and partisan waste of taxpayer dollars? I wonder how many millions canwest has made off these ads so far...

I also wonder how much all of these BS ads are costing us. Propaganda -all of it. How many surgeries could have been paid for instead. The BC Liars have forgotten what they are- public servants. Nothing more.

Can we please focus here, people! This story and comment thread are supposed to be about government advertising. Is it OK for governments to spend tax dollars on advertisements that are essentially political propaganda? Is it OK that those ads are at best slanted and at worst misleading? The U.S. seems to have stronger laws about this than we do. The Bush administration got into hot water for doing this re health (medicare?) and is now in trouble again for education. Why aren't we tackling this?

dear confused let me consider canadas political standards ; yes government advertising can be purchased at some ad agency say now communications or some such newly minted company. that just might have numbered cos. as shareholders, ah yes then bill the province the province sends a check ,the shareholders get paid handsomely, i think this happens everywhere it is standard modus operandi. take the general revenue , write checks to friends or self owned firms, for the very important task of telling taxpayers we a live in a 'splendor sine occasu" or some such redundant thing. follow the money !the press does not ask the question where does the emperor stash his clothes, why don't they? aviod naivete, just look at the tactics played on the poor: one must sign a supposedly binding aggreement to find employment or starve! canada what a great country!!! don't forget to buy an olympics ticket!!!everyone's going right?

Well confused I think the problem with these ads is the current government running them. After lambasting previous governments for wasting tazpayers money advertising and promising not to spend any themselves, well...

As to you Norman Spector, we do need a new party, desperately. Who can we vote for? The NDP with more baggage than allowed at check-in, the Liberals who are too busy giving blowjobs to the CEO's of BC, the Greens with a perhaps hidden agenda and divisive politics. If that doesn't signal the need for a new party perhaps some other facts do: lower and lower voter turnout, a growing cynicism of the population, and much more I'm sure.

"I suppose it's easier for many on the Left to blow smoke or live in hope than to do the hard work necessary to win elections" Norman Spector

Nice, are you perhaps trying to start something? Hmmm I wonder, I also really do wonder if your the real Spector or just someone posing (that last quote made me very suspicious). Maybe your right, maybe, perhaps the left is lazy and unorganized. I don't see it or believe it but you could be right, hell I might also have a winning lottery ticket in my pocket. And maybe there's a chance that the left has chosen the wrong allies. After all rich multinational corporations own newspapers and television and have billions of dollars to fund campaigns. Eventually the left will prevail, and simply because it believes in equality and compassion. Hopefully as we evolve as a society we will realize that you cannot commodotize everything or perhaps anything on the planet.

It's too bad we're all drinking our own bath water over here Norman Spector. Here's some copy and paste action from one of your employers webpages, I think it demonstrates how balanced the readership and viewpoints are at Vancouvers other media outlets.

Name:

Oh yeah and by the by tyee people, look at how stupid these people are over there, names and email addresses. Please feel free to email them nasty viruses, spam, and sign them up for more free porn than a 15 year old can handle. I think that a little investigation could also produce phone numbers, not that I'm suggesting anyone should call their numbers say like 20 or 30 times in the middle of the night and hang up.

So head over to canada.com and have some fun!

Bruce Little reports in a non-CanWest paper today: Indeed, there's been a sharp western shift in Canadian jobs over the past three years, one concentrated in British Columbia, which has finally shucked off the weak showing that plagued the province through most of the 1990s, and Alberta. An easy way to compare the provinces' record [on employment creation] is to look at their share of all Canada's jobs. Reading these numbers is simple: A rising share means that employment in a province has risen faster than the national average; a falling share means a province has failed to keep pace with the rest of the country. B.C. is a standout winner by this measure. In the third quarter, 12.94 per cent of all Canadian jobs were located in the province, up from 12.7 per cent at the end of 2001.

And now, norman spectre, go to strategicthoughts.ca FOR THE TRUTH about bc's economy: "The bad news is that BC's job count for september is only 8500 higher than December 2003. Employment in Canada went up by 1.0% since December 2003, BUT IT WENT UP BY ONLY 0.4% IN BC...Even September's job gain may be nothing more than the product of statistics since the unadjusted date shows a job loss of 7,500 for the month."

In other words, norm, MORE MISLEADING CHERRY PICKED ECONOMIC STATISTICS BY THE BC LIBERAL SYCHOPHANTS (PSYCHOPHANTS? heh, heh...) AT CANWEST MEDIA...and the term. "a rising share," is very much like bragging that the economy "was the fastest growing as a percentage", BOTH PHRASES MEANING ONLY THAT WHEN YOU HAVE AN ABYSMALLY LOW NUMBER TO BEGIN WITH ANY INCREASE SHOWS UP AS A LARGE INCREASE OR AS A "RISING SHARE" -in short more fraser pimpstitute neomath baffle gab. If you want a very simple measure, consider that seasonally adjusted employment in BC WENT UP IN BOTH THE SPRING AND THE FALL, TWO TIMES OF THE YEAR WHEN IN A HEALTHY ECONOMY IT ALWAYS GOES DOWN, in the spring due to increased construction starts, in the fall because of large numbers of students returning to school "DECIEVE BC", indeed!

Nice work, above Tha Geek, yes there are some shockinly reactionary posts permitted in canwest media and the posts you submitted prove that while all other groups are protected from hate literature and hateful speech it is still just jim dandy ok to use both against the poor, wht you can even pass a "safe streets act (safe for who?) that lets you hide your failures in ressurecting bc's economy and the fact that you have mercilessly thrown thousandas into the street to pay for a taxcut for the wealthy you neglected to mention while you were running for office...and yes, I've noticed a difference from the safe streets act already, it has been disproportionately applied against native panhandlers, and that now panhandlers, instead of sitting quietly in full visibility in an obvious spot, now have to creep up quietly behind you at the corner and beg for change in whispers, very disconcerting after dark ...feel safer yet??? We need more tyee posters countering the rectionary posters in canwest media by posting on the sound off and letters features...

Norman, Norman, Norman. You should know better than tossing out stats as an indication of anything. Hey, you're no longer working for Bill Bennett or Lyin' Brian so please don't trot out those silly percentages that served us so poorly during those eras. You know as well as anyone, (or you should given the number of pink slips you helped draft), the value of one job compared to another. So if you have 12 per cent of new jobs in one province it doesn't necesarily mean the you have 12 percent of new fulltime jobs. It may also mean a whole pile of training wage jobs that will likely disappear just before putting those who toil at them back into poverty. Now, while I'm ranting at you, I would like to suggest your recent comment on another similar post here on Tyee where you suggest Carole James is no Bill Bennett was right on. Thank you for clarifying that. I can remember sitting in a board room in Kamloops in the early '80s where good ol' Bill tried to patch up a few shaky issues with city officials and the media. Asked a question just slightly off his main topic, our then premier began to do his best, blathering on and on and on as the cheeks of his aides and advisors turned various shades of red and eye contact was lost to anyone curious as to what ws going on. Norm, I beleive you were there and I also beleive Bill Bennett would have been correctly advised at that time not to get behind the wheel of a car. Bennett's embarrassing effort to answer a question he wasn't prepped for dragged on for what seemed hours. Later, when the meeting was ending and in what I assumed was a pathetic effort to clarify what he had thought he meant to say, Bennett walked over to me and started talking, but managed only to confuse himself, myself and just about everyone else within ear shot. I do suspect if elected Carole James will not be fortifying her corn flakes before trying to explain public polity. She'll never be a Bill Bennett and I also have this nagging doubt she will not try to get involved in embarrassing late night drunk driving issues either.

I'll put the credibility of Bruce Little of the Globe and Mail (not a CanWest paper)up against Strategicthoughts.com any day of the week.

Hello Mr. Spector and happy thanksgiving to you and your family, I appreciate your devils advocate role on this site even if I don't necessarily agree with your views.

On BC's economy how about some commentary on this article from the CCPA:

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/bc/nr62.html

I am very supportive of this type of economic related argument, which in summary is that governments do very little to shape the economy of a country/province/region. Usually economic performance is directly related to outside forces like the marketplace and in Canada's case the economy of the good 'ol USA.

Oh and by the way I know that you will diss the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives and say that the "Mop-n-Pail" is more trustworthy and less biased, so don't even go there. I will tell you this though, as a member of generation "Y", at least I think that's where I am, they have many many many ideas which appeal to me and people like me. We are more likely to listen to them than we are to the aging idea's and author's at the Mop and Pail.

And by the way, Mr. Spector, we at the Tyee may be drinking our own bathwater but the people at Canada.com have first urinated in the bath and then proceed to drink it.

At least here we are getting various views unlike the big press. Here too we know the views are honest beliefs whether we agree with them or not. And most importantly, we can challenge them. I repeat my question for which I never have received an answer with proof of its accuracy. Name some examples of privitization where the public or workers have benefitted? My own example of that is that I used to go to the local forestery office for detailed maps of BC regions. Within a few minutes I had my map for $2.95. Last week I went to get a map. Not available at this office because the map section had been privitized and I had to get it my map in Victoria. Easy enough but the map, with handling charges, etc. I now had to pay over $25 and wait a week to get it. Aint privitization great? Highways with some regions doing as well as the old govt. did but many pretty bad and costing more than govt. run. Some things are better run by government, especially items like health care and other services we need and have no choice in doing without. Leave competition and profits for places we have a choice. What's happened to the governing principle of the greatest good for the most people? Why, you right wingers, is the "greatest good for the few" the government of choice for you? And above all, why are you forcing it on to us? Greed maybe!!!

Screk gets to me with his implication that this is something on the B.C. Liberal government would do; I suppose we're supposed to have forgotten about all those political ads the Liber....um....NDP Premier ran just prior to the last provincial election. What about all that money convincing us that fast ferries were a good investment? Standard tactic. I say; don't call this one bad on the basis of the party/leader.

I've seen it all now. I thought I had when Bill Vanderzalm came out in support of Citizens for Public Power, and also for building ferries in BC, thus blowing the theory of only the left and big public sector unions decrying the ill thoughtout decisions of this government. I kind of chuckle at times at functions of the NDP when people refer to things that "left wing idealogue" Premier W.A.C Bennett did for the future generations of this province. But Norman Spector, telling the NDP who should have been elected their leader?????? Saying that Moe Sihota is a better choice than Carole James... it goes to prove what they say back east... that BC Politics is whacked. Norman, thanks for the comedic inference into reality of BC politics. But please, stick to the standup routine on the Bill "not so Good" Show. By the way, I thought the show with you and Moe and Pia Shandel was one of the few things worth watching on the new VI. Sorry they canned you.

Never trust what you are told... Question everything... Especially definitions...

Good grief; I liked David Schreck's article on Deceive BC, although a little distracting numbers wise. But the commentary, yikes. Anyone that thinks Campbell and company are going to come up with anything but the standard formula of "Cut, slash, burn, pay friends and the powerful for 3 years and then restore a teeny bit and boast a lot for the last year" is well, a British Columbian. A simple formula practiced by the right world wide and allowed to continue unabated because by and large, people are, well, idiots. Most only browse the headlines and read the snippets. Most have a memory and attention span that barely rivals that of a gnat (or so it would seem). So in the end we all get one thing, in BC we get what we deserve. Sigh!

Reading Schreck's article on the government infomercials reminds me of an interesting quote from Benjamin Disraeli, who was a 19th century British Prime Minister: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." Pretty astute, for a politician.

Hey norm I disagree with your point that a reporter for the globe and mail is more trustworthy or knowledgeable then schreck. one is a reporter with what two years in journalism school(typically, don't know his bio) jack of all trades master of none who answers to his editor, are you not a former editor of the jerusalem post! Schreck is an economist who backs everything up with links to his sources. Btw I finally read les leynes opinion piece on the northern development fund, same old rhetoric from someone I suspect judging by his opinion pieces is a card carrying liberal! I like most northerners will believe this fund will help the working people when I see it, most of it will go to friends and insiders given management positions etc. Leyne is definitely a big supporter of gordo in my opinion.

hey phil I call it the bovine mentality follow the cow with the bell. Sad but true!

Actually, laughing hyena, I find myself in the surprising position of agreeing on one point with our representative of the wrong side of centre - Mr. Spectre - who thinks Mr. Sihota would have been a good choice for the NDP leadership - despite his affiliation with the Clark government which would probably made him a target which the Campbell mafia would use to divert attention away from the present angst of BC politics and our regression into the dark years of coal burning, tree logging, and fish poisoning ignorance and serfdom. Moe is a seasoned, articulate, and astute leader with a social conscience and direction who has inspired confidence in the past and would do so in the future if ever given the opportunity. I would be assured that both the environment and education would be protected domains under his direction - which are among the main issues closest to the heart that we're watching deteriorating with every passing minute the lumbering Liberals under Gordo are abusing power. James, in all her competence, has yet to prove her true spirit as a leader who can take the knocks as well as give them, and BC'ers are not sure how to measure her up as someone who can lead us away unscathed from Campbell and company.

Prior to taking up journalism, Bruce Little worked as senior public servant in Ottawa. He's a professional who's written critical articles about Gordon Campbell in the past. Sometimes, though you won't find it on strategicthoughts.com or on the tyee site, the numbers gore a different ox. Here's another uncomfortable truth about when BC hit the trough from yesterday's Globe and Mail article, which is not a paper owned by CanWest: "B.C.'s 12.7-per-cent share of the Canadian job market in late 2001 was way down from 13.6 per cent in 1997, so it has spent the past few years rebounding from an unnatural low; even so, it's still not back to where it was only seven years ago."

Those ads are misleading and if you pay attention to ACheese BC ads they suggest that these people who love BC are employed yet when you read between the lines these Campbell ads are about the POTENTIAL for Jobs if the LIE-BERALS win next election and that must not happen. The TRUCK shot of old growth logs going by is an example of the lies ..they were probably logs taken from some old growth forest by helicopter, and that doesnt employ very many and as well the logs are all going south to some American saw mill- clear cutting any financial benefits for workers in BC. This govt is a decitful bunch of Robber Barons and if they are re- elected then there will be no hope for anyone that isnt in the top 5% of the 25% tax break given to a tiny percentage of the very wealth in BC, supporters of this pathological Lieberal gvt..

Thanks, norm, for confirming in your post above that bc still lags far behind "where it was only seven years ago..." UNDER AN NDP government. The globe is progressive only when compared to canwest news and still has a number of lies and distortions to answer for as well as its promoting the loathsome views of john ibbittson, margaret wente, christie blanchford, jeffrey simpson and numerous other reactionary columnists including the spectre of norman...

The globe while it does have a few good columnists, heather mallick, rick salutin, and ken wiwa, has grown far more timid and reactionary since september 11 and since its purchase by bell media. The globe has also provided incredibly poor coverage of the gordon liar government's excesses and even tried to justify campbell's black thursday more than once...in short, the globe and mail could use a lot of improvement beginning with the excising of spectre's dim and rectionary prose. I see where your hero dubya has fallen behind kerry in the latest poll, norm, how's that taste?

I have yet to find one person who believes that the liberal ads are anywhere near truthful or anyone that feels that the govt largesse of late is anything more than tossing bon bons to the great unwashed. I speak of those I have actually communicated with as I know there are thosesuckers and supporters of the liberals whom think otherwise. As has been preached throughout the ages, the only way to fight lies is with the truth and the truthwill always come out because it is in the side of right and just.I can appreciate anybody having a different point of view to my own and am more than willing to submit to majority will in a democratic process however when a group misrepresents itsel and its intentions as vociferously as the backstabbing, hidden agenda liars we currrently have lording it over us I am outraged. I am hoping that human nature will prevail in the next electon simply put, once bitten twice shy.Lastly, I appreciate the Tyee for being the forum it is and I appreciate he above posts whether or not I agree with them or they with me. My letters to the editor of can west papers have all been edited, those popsted here have not. ( the minute they are I will unsubscribe!)The only drawback with this forum is that few of us are identifiable leaving me to wonder who some of these erudite well informed people are! You and you writing skills are appreciated.

I agree with you about many things tsanh, and I'm very interested in your final comments about the lack of identification on this site. Perhaps some of the people whose writing skills you are appreciative of would like to meet somwhere and discuss many things besides politics.

Speaking of deception, Salon.com has published an article questioning whether the Bush campaign has wired Bush to transmit answers and information to him during the debates. In a photo from the Miami debate, TV cameras picked up a bulge between Bush's back shoulders as he leans over the lectern - a solid rectangular object. Such devices are often used by TV reporters to speak during remote stand-ups, feeding them information through an attached earpiece. Not suprising, I guess, we knew he was a puppet, now we see the strings.

The deception I'm referring to above is in relation to the DeceiveBC ads not to lack of identification on this site. I posted it before I saw Tha Geek's comments. In the infamous words of tricky Dick "I just wanted to make that perfectly clear."

Norman, drop the percentages etc. You know as well as anyone they are a crock. You should also know that vertually all job or jobless numbers provided by Stats-Can are not worth much. Yes, they may be a bench mark, but they are a poor benchmark and exclude so many they are ridiculous. Stats'Can used to provie a monthly jobless fugure based on phone polling, which eliminated anyone not actually knocking on doors as being out of the workforce and, thus not unemployed. When that started to look silly, during Mulrooney's era, Stats'Can shifted to a three-month averaging that came up with what looked like better numbers, but managed only to futher confound the reality because they could be adjusted to hide the peaks and dips of reality. I'm a big fan of the G&M, but like every other Canadian newspaper it is still chasing the business dollar more closely than the price of a subscription. Truth,in such an environment, can often morph into weird and wonderful forms that really don't adequately catch the nuances of a complex issue.

So, it's okay for David Schreck but not for Bruce Little to use Statscan data.

Hey norm how good do you think the job numbers numbers will look when interest rates go up? Not everyone wants to work in a old folks home or catering to the wealthy retirees from the east and south of the border for minimum wage! The globe and mail used to be a good read subscribed to it for years but not amy more, dumped it and all the canwest papers, to many stories like the pro gordo rhetoric coming from that les leyne guy, there was a real nice touchy feely story about hagen on the weekend about his religous convictions and how dedicated he is to his ministry, nothing about fish farms!Oh yes and don't forget mark milke the expert on everything from healthcare to the war on iraq, at least in his opinion!

David Schreck accuses ("Achieve BC - Ads Don't Add Up" the BC Government of being blatantly political and propagandist. Maybe, but HE, as an NDP candidate, assistant to an NDP Premier and holder of other NDP posts, is THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK. And his cv is not recorded in the article which underscores a certain lack of transparency on the part of Tyee. In the circumstances, one is entitled to consider whether or not the Tyee is a similar POT.

Okay Norm, not you Spector, what are you an idiot? Ever heard of Google? What other publications offer a cv of their journalists? Furthermore, you dork, just click on his name at the top of the article and it will give you more, as well as a link to his website.

Learn how to use google, learn how to use kartoo.com, they will always give you much better results than a cv which has been polished by an image consultant.

The business section of the Thanksgiving weekend Vancouver Sun newspaper gave me a laugh, with a chaser of heartburn. A full page provincial government ad -- full page! -- trumpeting job growth in BC's natural resources sector was accompanied by an article on job growth. The article noted those sectors which had gained and those which had lost jobs. Guess which sector had the biggest job losses -- yup, natural resources. Isn't this the same government that said -- no VOWED-- they'd never stoop to spending taxpayer dollars on communications that just amounted to party propaganda like their opponents??? Lies, lies and more lies. The more they lie, the easier it gets, I guess. Ginger the Cat

27,000 retired public servants who had their medical and pension benefits tampered with by the bc liars in 2002 have begun a class action lawsuit against the bc backstabbers, according to today's victoria times colonist! I said it could be done! Now, if only these retired workers can find a judge not owned by the bc liars, as H.A.D. (we've been H.A.D.) Oliver so obviously is. I propose a new class action lawsuit every month coupled with demands for judges not owned by the bc liars. And don't tell me that a judge, a supposed conflict of interest commisioner, who finds nothing untoward about walls, the premier's INLAW, currently under criminal investigation, he who MILKED the ministry of children and families, as a PERSONAL CASH COW, don't tell me that such a "judge" is unbiased or even worthy of judicial office...

As I mentioned on the carol james thread yesterday large billboard ads are appearing all over the lower mainland criticising education cuts. I have learned however that they are from the bc teacher's federation, not from the ndp. Teachers went to billboard advertising after translink under surrey's reactionary mayor, david mcCallum, refused to let them advertise on skytrain, which is now under court challenge. The ndp, if they were smart should do something along the lines of full size billboard ads reading : "Achieve B.C? Perhaps the premier means DECIEVE BC as every unbiased study shows bc has the worst performing economy in the country under the bc liberals..." Well, punchier than that, but you get the general idea. There are some ominous signs that the bc backstabbers will use their political and economic clout to block ndp advertising, a billboard blitz, beginning really soon could counteract this bc backstabber treacherous mendacity, and prick the bubble of their pathetic lies and highlight the FACT that THE BC LIARS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO ACHIEVEMENTS, WHATSOEVER...

Norman Spector. Stats-Can does provide some good long-term data, which most people, myself included, have come to rely on. However, it's job growth and jobless figures were a political exercise long before you went to work for Lyin' Brian. I believe the margin of error on the jobless rates, based on phone polling is about 20 per cent. As I mentioned above, the monthly rates were shifted to a three-month averaging formula following the extremely high numbers in the 1980s, thereby further clouding what is happening on the ground where people live, hurt and survive as they try to match the unwarrented optimism manufactured under political direction. In other words, if Stats-Can states that there are 32 million Canadians or that Canada exported six gazillion bushels of canola, I'm apt to accept the figures as relatively accurate because they are based on actual straight-foward scientific measurements. On the other hand, if Stats-Can says the jobless rate in any particular region or province fluxuates from the norm, I immediately start looking for the political shading. Does Stats-Can differentiate between a job in a profession or a trade from a sub-minimum training wage offered to a teenager? The answer is no. Stats-Can certainly has the brainpower to offer more detail. Unfortunately, it would appear they aren't encouraged to give us the real story.

Up the pay for politicians and attract better candidates. Yeah Right! It seems the money attracts the greedy, the mendacious, and the downright criminal along with their hangers on along with the folks who want to truly serve with honour. The public purse now seems to be a kind of birthday 'loot bag' for these folks. How else can anyone explain the Walls affair? (Or the Fed's Adscam)(The raid on the Ledg.etc. etc.) Lay off Government employees after villifying them and then 'appoint' a 'liberal' hack with sticky fingers. A bankrupt who has 'connections' to the premier 'walked away' with around a half million dollars, cost a cabinet minister his job, and a report that now says the money was paid out 'legitimately' so he gets to keep the bucks and it is hard to find any detailed reporting in the media. If this boondoggle had the same reporting as the fast ferries, and parliamentary responsibility by Ministers had any meaning, this government should have resigned and called an election. But notice just who is targeted -Government workers who are unionized. It must be just wonderful to see well paid union jobs being exchanged for non-union minimum wage work by this government. It seems that twisting job statistics is a meanspirited way of making those who have lost jobs paying decent wages feel guilty for not working at jobs paying the minimum. Please explain how the judges of BC are entitled to a $40,000 increase while union worker have to accept zero? Oh sorry the elite is exempt from exemptions.

Hey, Allan--You'd better demand that Tyee editors delete David Schreck's article immediately, as he's using that suspect Statscan data. It's just amazing that he could get sucked in so easily, and that he doesn't know as much as you do about how they suppress data and are part of a conspiracy, etc. In fact, thinking this through, he'll probably have to shut down his site completely, given his reliance over the years on Statscan data.

Propaganda is never thinly disguised - the owner of the Mustel research group recently announced her intentions to run for the West Van nomination for the BC Liberals. She is a long time party member, being president of the local CA and strong ties to the Liberals. This leaves only one real apparently independent polling company in the shape of the Reid group. I always wondered why the Mustel results were so different than the Reids - now we know. We all know who Schreck is, what he does, who his pals are. Take in the factor of his propaganda vs the Liberal propaganda and the war of crap that follows. These days it pays to take the time to do your research and take in as many sources as possible, sadly your average voter will not do this.

Mr , (aka: the comma), I didn't read Allan say anything about data suppression or erroneous facts spued out by Stats-Can - he seemed to say that the numbers don't always give the whole picture and cannot really reflect society at large. Think of it this way: if BC'ers were really living the big life like never before and were indeed Achieving like no other - then do you really need to be told and sold the fact? No, you'd know it - redundancy is a reflection of inefficiency. However, when times are less sure and people are really questioning what the heck is our ridiculous gov't doing (especially before the election campaigns get up and going) - then some brain-washing always help - I'm sure a positive spin would be the Liberals use of the power of suggestion.

What THE TYEE and its growing number of truth seekers need to tackle the current B.C. political scene is the wit and wisdom, like no other journalist, of ALLAN FOTHERINGHAM. Phone home Dr. Foth. Now that would send shivers down Campbell's and Company's spine. What about this, Mr. Beers?

The big difference between Schreck`s "propaganda" and the BC Lieberals "propaganda" is that the taxpayers are paying for the "Lieberals propaganda.

Bruce Little, on the other hand, is a journalist who uses Statscan data. As to Shirin's point, here's what Allan wrote about that data in his most recent post: "Stats-Can does provide some good long-term data, which most people, myself included, have come to rely on. However, it's job growth and jobless figures were a political exercise long before you went to work for Lyin' Brian. I believe the margin of error on the jobless rates, based on phone polling is about 20 per cent. As I mentioned above, the monthly rates were shifted to a three-month averaging formula following the extremely high numbers in the 1980s, thereby further clouding what is happening on the ground where people live, hurt and survive as they try to match the unwarrented optimism manufactured under political direction."

Nothing you have said yet alters the fact that under the bc liar's we STILL have the second worst performing provincial economy in the country, with the fastest growing debt, your (Bruce) "little" points not withstanding or even, standing...don't you ever get tired of being a mindless, reactionary SHILL, norm? Shall you, SHILL you, will you, won't you? You have crossed to the dark side norm...

I read les leynes opinion piece in todays TC , the liberals don't have to spend our tax money they have leyne! The guy is amazing he heaped praise on mayencourt like you would not! To read leyne you would think gordo and the liberals were the best thing to ever happen in victoria, tell that to all the people hurting in the North! Norm in the name of balanced reporting your editor friend gave the opinion piece to a talking head from the Victoria Chamber, more praise heaped on the liberals! My wife has a small business with 12 employees, the liberals haven't done anything for her except to increase fees for basic services like medicare park fees etc and many of her clients have lost their jobs!The good news coming from these liberal adds are lies in my opinion!

The liberal media is as liberal as the conservatives that owns them. So the Tyee is not yet as bad as canwest, because they are trying to get people hooked in their pages. Radical? We don't have one newsmeida outlet that have writers like I.F. Stone or Walter Stewart or some of the many great writers in counterpunch. Question? Why anyone would respond or acknowledge N. Spector drivel? He is a sold out fellow, Mulroney's friend and we have to live with their decision to sell the manufacturing sector of this country down the river. Therefore if anyone is looking forwards to good paying jobs, we have to demand that NAFTA be scrapped and Spector's and company be sent to the USA for a deserving holiday. Believe me I wish him well down there. We just have had enough of journalism that is not reflecting people's aspiration and hopes for a future of full well paid employment, where the environment and working are not at odds with each other.

Another comma guy tries to be humourous. Some of you may be ennamoured by Stats-Can's ability to provide numbers. I am not, specifically because when you dig into the factors this federal agency uses to gather things like jobless levels there are far too many loose ends left dangling, except those loose threads never appear in the public version. Now, Norman, perhaps I should be excited a former Mulroney gnome is quoting me in Tyee. Unfortunately, your use of my comment seems like a desperate bid to find something with which to attack the author of this article. Frankly, I guess I had anticipated a little more depth from someone who has been a diplomat, a career bureaucrat and a political aide. Certainly you understand that nebulous zone between politics and administration where decisions are often made far from the light of day and where things, say numbers or factors, can be altered ever so slightly to find a more appropriate result. If the right deputy minister talks to a colleague, a rolling average might appear, softening those hard edges politicians just so hate to have to comment about. Now, I am certain you would never have got yourself wrapped up in some of the other nefarious problems that Lyin'Brian's administration seemed to sink into after his election, but I do know he certainly campaigned on ''jobs, jobs, jobs'', but then couldn't deliver. It was during this era when the jobless stats, rolled out faithfully on a monthly basis, began to take on the aura of a bullshit that must have even caused a few of your colleagues to gag. I can tell you for certain that an independant study of one area in BC., which had an official jobless rate of 17 per cent in the summer of 1987, showed a true jobless rate of at least 27 per cent. That study was then tested through a polling firm which confirmed the higher figures.

wellherewegoagain, ad hominem attacks generally reflect a weak mind; in this case, you're also wrong factually, as you will see at the following link. http://www.mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1759 By the way, Peter Desbarats' review of the book is in October's Literary Review of Canada, not a CanWest publication.

I live in the hurtlands, I know what it's like to have to travel 2 hours over mountain passes to get adequate care, that our band aid hospital can't provide. Spending money on feel good ads with paid actors, pisses me off! Any political party using propaganda ads on the taxpayers buck is wrong! The NDP made some mistakes but not as catastrophic as this government! Previous governments before the NDP had some good programs that weren't stripped away when they we're in power, like this Liberal government is doing. Enough about the fast ferries, get a new issue to bug the NDP about, is that all you can talk about? The fast ferries could have been used for tourism like they now are in other countries, but the Liberals sold them for less than the value for scrap metal! Atleast the NDP kept ship builders working in BC, not exporting jobs to Germany! Way to make BC the greatest place to work and live! Even if there isn't a majority NDP government, elected in May 2005, there will be opposition to this current dictatorship! Go Carole James! She speaks for minorities, poor and women who are not represented enough!!

I hate to tell ya Shawna but the NDP have had their fair share of cuts, layoffs and military build ups. Between the NDP and the Liberals we have seen this province be mismanaged, its peoples abused, its natural resources sold off, by both these parties. Time to kick them both out and elect a Green Party majority - hoo - yaa, wouldn't that set the cat amongst the pigeons ?

The Government adverts (BC The Best place on earth to work) remind me of the federal liberal sponsership scandal. The adverts are just projections from an ad agency. (Essentially meaningless). They acomplish 3 things. 1.Give British columbians a warm fussy feeling.Hopefully convincing them to maintain the status quo. 2.Chanel money to bc lib advertising industry friends. Expect said "friends"to offer the BC libs cut rate advertising in the coming election. (They have already being paid!). 3. Newspaper editors are going to be unwilling to upset this new revinue stream. Opinions that might upset this new revinue stream are now less likely to be printed. That is a really scary thing. My tax money is being used to cut off my access to diverse opinions.

The Government adverts (BC The Best place on earth to work) remind me of the federal liberal sponsership scandal. The adverts are just projections from an ad agency. (Essentially meaningless). They acomplish 3 things. 1.Give British columbians a warm fussy feeling.Hopefully convincing them to maintain the status quo. 2.Chanel money to bc lib advertising industry friends. Expect said "friends"to offer the BC libs cut rate advertising in the coming election. (They have already being paid!). 3. Newspaper editors are going to be unwilling to upset this new revinue stream. Opinions that might upset this new revinue stream are now less likely to be printed. That is a really scary thing. My tax money is being used to cut off my access to diverse opinions.

I am a quadriplegic who relies heavily on home services provided by Interior health. From the comments made by many of the excellent workers it would appear that in general their hours of work have been significant reduced-in addition to being forced to accept salary cuts. More positions, called " full-time, part-time " have been created but most have been, in effect, new jobs created by making two part-time jobs out of what was previously one full-time job.

As a freelance journalist on crusade to liberate our media from the corporate monopolies that currently shackle it, I would like to congratulate David Schreck on a thorough and accurate article--the kind we rarely get to see in the corporate Liberal-dominated media. As someone who has followed the facts and written about BC's true sad economic state under the BC Liberal reign, I can attest that these Deceive BC ads are outright lies on a scale which I have never seen in BC before. The fact is the economy has slowed and peoples incomes and spending power has shrunk since the Liberals took power, resulting in higher unemployment, much worse than when the NDP was in government. Lay-offs, especially in the public sector, facility closures, cuts, corresponding tax increases, massive increase in public, private and consumer debt--are all the hallmark of the BC Liberals' legacy. All the finger-pointing and name-calling and personal attacks here, anti-union flake-ism, side-stepping, questioning people's political affiliations, or all the corporate media fluff and hype, will change this. These ads by both the government and the BC Business Council (the real government of this province now) are desperate efforts to keep the public's mind off of this. Period. The fact is, it is the non-profit investment of consumer dollars from working/middle and lower income earners that fuels our economy, not capitalists, rich cliques and spoiled upper class do-nothings. When you hit working people, who also create the wealth via providing the good and services and innovations to trade, the economy, especially in the long term suffers. The rich get fatter, and that's all that really happens, just like we have seen over the 20 years. It's interesting to see BC's stalwart corporate apologist Norman "Fraser Institute" Spector get involved in this debate, as a supposedly neutral source. This again shows just what blatant dishonesty the corporate clique in this province is capable of. And yes, BTW, I am an NDP member, just so folks don't start speculating about who I am. Why did I join? Because the NDP is the only political force in this country that has an established legacy of advocating for freedom of speech and information, access to media, fairness and balance in the press, human rights and ultimately democratizing our economy as much as possible--something that I in my profession deeply care about--something that Norman, the BC Liberals and their corporate masters despise. The BC Liberals, and similar corporate controlled political clubs are opposed to this. That’s why media that is supportive of them has little credibility.

I hate to agree with Norman but, i'm not an NDPer I come here to see an altenative view. All media has it's biases, you don't see alot of pro liberal stuff here, this site seems to be the opposition in our province and sites like this as well. It is truly sad that we have such a narrow media controled mostly by one corporation. I like it when intelligent people come in here and stir things up it might raise my IQ even if it is Norman Spector because we need good debates to truely be heard and get our point across. Maybe we can get Moe Sihota in here too and maybe some right wingers too and stir the pot get things heated up. provincal elections are comming it it maybe the most important election this province has seen.