Topic
Proponents argue male students require a safe space too, but opponents worry equality issues are overlooked.
Do we need a safe space for men?
Slutwalk Vancouver, the next step in a controversial women's empowerment movement.
Toughing it out in the cold, isolated, male world of mobile workers in Alberta's oil patch.
Pink Shirt Day began as protest against homophobia. As its popularity grows, are we blurring a vital teaching opportunity?
Thirty years after Simon Fraser University's Women's Centre opened its doors, the campus is now considering a proposal for its first ever Men's Centre.
Last Wednesday the Simon Fraser Student Society (SFSS) Board of Directors approved a budget of $30,000 for the project. The project was initiated by Keenan Midgley who, as treasurer, also writes the budget. "We were in a financial position to expand our services and I think this could be really useful on campus," he said.
But the creation of a Men's Centre at SFU stirs unease among feminist scholars and other women's advocates on campus, who say it's not clear the new institution will promote equality among men and women, that the process for creating it has been fast-tracked and without collaboration, and its backers don't acknowledge the reasons why women in particular need a safe space.
An SFU women's studies undergraduate student has added new voices to the controversy by creating a video featuring some of her classmates' thoughts on the proposal (watch it towards the bottom of this article). "I didn't feel like we were being heard so I put it into a video just so that the board could hear how people were feeling about the project," explained video-maker Natasha Clearly-Dulai.
SFSS president Jeff McCann said the purpose of the Men's Centre is not specifically about gender equality, but rather to build a support structure and community for men who've come to SFU from out of town and are having a difficult time finding ways to get involved on campus.
"That also ties into men's issues and mental wellness and all the different things that come along with that," he said.
'Not apples to apples'
At the heart of the debate is how people think about "equality." Mary Shearman, a graduate student and instructor in the Department of Gender, Sexuality, and Women's Studies (GSWS) at SFU, disagrees that just because there is a Women's Centre, adding a Men's Centre would create a better and more naturally just balance.
That way of thinking ignores that women, overall, still face more discrimination and hardships than men. Establishing a Men's Centre, she said, may give the impression of creating a "formal equality" without taking needed steps towards "substantive equality."
The idea that the definition of equality should be that all people are treated the same is something that women's studies scholars have challenged through research and theoretical work over the years -- including Shearman, who said "I don't necessarily agree that 'formal equality' works."
As Clearly-Dulai said about levels of oppression faced by women compared to men, "It's not like comparing apples to apples."
McCann said the project is in its early stages. While the Board of Directors has committed to pursuing the project, there is no plan, as of yet, for what exactly the centre will look like.
But he's determined to press ahead. "The next step is to start planning programming and looking at different opportunities for space," said McCann.
A place of men's own
While women's centres exist on most college and university campuses across Canada, men's centres remain something of an anomaly.
According to the SFU Women's Centre's website, the need for women's centres is fairly obvious: "The men's centre is everywhere else."
Shearman said the Women's Centre is particularly important as it provides a safe space on campus -- women go to the centre to deal with issues like assault and harassment, as well as to just hang out and take a nap. "It's politically and historically important, as well as being valuable in terms of the services it provides."
Shearman isn't necessarily opposed to the Men's Centre but wonders what purpose it will serve. "I think if the Men's Centre is going to talk about questions of masculinity, that would be beneficial for everyone. You could then talk about what living in a rape culture is all about from the masculine standpoint. I think that could be really interesting."
McCann emphasized that the Men's Centre is intended to be a place where men can find support not available in other settings. "Once you have a support structure and there is a safe place to talk about things, then you're going to be able to start talking about some of the issues impacting men," he said.
One of the statistics included in the proposal for the centre showed that suicide rates are higher among men than women.
Cleary-Dulai said such statistics are misleading and don't necessarily equate to a need for a space specific to men.
Natasha Clearly-Dulai made this video to voice objections to the Men's Centre.
"First of all you need to have a context behind stats. They didn't take into account the fact that the majority of people who try to commit suicide and don't succeed are women," she said. "In any case, issues around mental health impact both genders -- that seems like something that should be in health and counseling. I don't really think it's necessary to have a separate men's centre to address mental health issues."
"If they're going to have a Men's Centre it has to be for the right reasons," Cleary-Dulai added.
Shearman is more concerned about the reasons behind the project than anything else. "I'm not opposed to the idea. I just think there seems to be a bit of an adversarial approach that's worrying." If there is going to be a Men's Centre, she thinks it should happen in collaboration with the Women's Centre, not in competition.
Man-date still in progress
McCann said the Men's Centre is still working on its mandate. "We're just going to start out with meetings and programming and some community building events. In the long term we can hopefully look at a physical space like we have with Out on Campus, our Women's Centre, and our First Nations Student Association."
But Cleary-Dulai doesn't see a Men's Centre as being comparable to those spaces, many of which were created over long periods of time and were not easily awarded funding at first. "It took over 10 years to create the Women's Centre and these guys don't even have a working group and they're getting funding. There's a problem with that -- that's not procedural fairness."
While centres and associations like Out on Campus, the Women's Centre, and the First Nations Student Association exist to acknowledge and address issues affecting systematically marginalized groups, a centre for men cannot be justified on a similar basis, critics point out.
Before the Men's Centre move much farther along, Shearman thinks consultation is key. "There was just no discussion," she said. Cleary-Dulai added: "Because they didn't talk to any of the social advocacy organizations at SFU or try and work with them it seemed like they were working in competition with them."
Shearman would like to see an open forum about the Men's Centre's focus. "I'm under the impression that no one's really standing in the way of the idea but just that people want to talk about this and talk about the approach," she said.
Clearly-Dulai is unconvinced that a Men's Centre is necessary. She doesn't argue that men are never victimized or marginalized, whether the cause be racism, poverty or sexual identity. But she's sees no indication, yet, that helping such men will be the primary purpose of SFU's Men's Centre.
Rather, she worries it will become a haven for men who would rather not acknowledge some of the negative effects that traditional ideas of masculinity keep reinforcing and repeating. As Cleary-Dulai puts it, she doesn't want to see a resource centre for "hegemonic masculinity."
"To me that's like saying, 'Oh well, they have an African group on campus and therefore we should have a white group'. If anybody proposed having an all-white group, there would be some big problems with that." ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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Kaz
1 year ago
It's well-known in the campus
It's well-known in the campus community that the SFSS's current leadership is comprised of a conservative cabal that have done their best to undermine progressive student activists on campus. I agree that a men's centre that was a forum for critically evaluating conventional masculinity, done in consultation with the Women's Centre and other support groups on campus, could be a valuable resource for students. But after their attempt to get the Simon Fraser Public Interest Research Group defunded failed, it is difficult not to see this as an alternative tack the current SFSS admin is taking in their quest to promote reactionary ideas on campus.
Kreditanstalt
1 year ago
Disingenuous...
Miss Cleary-Dulai clearly has a problem with the cost of a "Men's Center"...
Strange. She seems to have no problem with forcing students, through compulsory union dues, to fund a "women's center" - an institution with an even more obvious political agenda...
Luck
1 year ago
SAFE CENTERS AT SFU
STOP CREATING POLARIZATION.
IF YOU RELLY WANT A SAFE CENTER THEN HAVE A PERSONS CENTER WERE EVERYONE IS INVITED.
IT IS JUST THAT SIMPLE.
Kaz
1 year ago
Two rebuttals
Kreditanstalt:
What is the "obvious political agenda" that a Women's Centre has? The fact is that rape is a real risk for women university students, moreso than men, and that supporting and promoting awareness of rape culture is something from which every student, regardless of gender, will benefit. Unfortunately, this fact is not as "political" as you claim it to be.
Luck:
This is the fallacy of the equality argument that Mary Shearman alludes to in the article. The equality argument fails to acknowledge the historical (and unfortunately, ongoing) reality that means that most spaces in this world are ones where men have power over women. The "polarization" you suggest the Women's Centre creates in fact already exists in the world.
A Voice
1 year ago
Equality unless it means
Equality unless it means exclusion...Right?
Womens only everything, but there has to be a justificaion for men to congregate?
Nothing like the politically correct, hypersensitive atmosphere, of an university to even have the time to have this conversation...get it together..who cares if a group of men want a club...any more than most care if women want their own space...GET A LIFE PEOPLE!!! I'm starting to understand some of the grads I work around now...so mixed up they cant even do thier job with out fear of somehow offending someone
Kreditanstalt
1 year ago
Kaz
Even if rape is a risk of such political gravity that a "center" has to be established, it was done with money taken unasked from an entire silent student body.
I won't belittle this argument through reductio ad absurdum, but we could set up similar politically-motivated bodies to ameliorate the effects of alcoholism among men, of gender discrimination affecting homosexuals, of racial discrimination affecting coloured students, of needy single-parent students or of unemployment among low-income students. And so on.
Not only the involuntary funding of this agenda is evil: the principle itself is wrong.
They are creating segregated victim groups out of what should be a society of free individuals...transferring responsibility to a government and thereby allowing the abdicating of personal and familial responsibility for one's own behaviour and the behaviour of those we deal with daily is WRONG.
Instead of blaming MEN as a group - or women, or the rich, or neocons, or foreigners or racists or the military or xenophobia or whatever - try placing the blame for problems experienced by individual women on individual men.
Luck
1 year ago
PEOPLES CENTER AT SFU......
PEOPLES CENTER AT SFU...... ALL INCLUSION
WERE BOTH MALE AND FEMALE CAN INTERACT ON A ONE ON ONE BASIS,
IMAGINE JUST LIKE WE DO IN SOCIETY
WHAT IS SFU GROWING UP THERE
I WENT TO SFU IT WAS FUN AND IT MUST OF CHANGED FOR THE WORSE NOW IF THAT IS HOW YOU ALL FEEL.
THIS CAN'T BE HOW ALL STUDENTS RELATE
Chris H
1 year ago
When I went to SFU ....
When I went to SFU, there was a "men's center." It was called the "pub" and the "gym." I know that I never felt that I needed a place like the Women's Centre. After reading the article, I can't see the justification for a "safe" place for men to hang out.
Northon
1 year ago
The objection makes no sense.
Given that the purpose of the center is to provide a place for men to come to and feel freed to not respond to the mandatory roles of the world, it makes no sense to ask them to consult the women's groups.
They should not be linked, not at first. The mens group needs to grow on its own to represent men, it needs to grow naturally from the men involved.
Why is it ok to assume the guilt of the mens group. That they will automatically become evil and misguided without the hands of women to guide them?
It is downright bizarre, I don't understand why it is ok to have such an enormous double standard. It should make your spine shiver to shout such huge contradictions side by side.
bluerev
1 year ago
What is Masculinity?
I think a lot of people don't understand that many men are confused about masculinity and many men do not see themselves as what is being portrayed as masculinity in media and pop-culture. Where are men to discuss these issues that offend them as men? Where are men to discuss their identity?
I personally find the video offensive as a man, who could have used a men's centre while at school, to discuss issues of what it is to be a man in these times. Instead today I am still trying to figure out what it is to be a man.
jordanbower
1 year ago
Don't compare to women...compare to men
As a young man facing the issue of coming of age and negative masculinity head on, I hope to point out that the need for a men's space shouldn't counterbalance against the corresponding (and important) need for a women's space.
Many men feel overwhelmed by the differences between contemporary expectations of masculinity and their own intuitive sense of integrity and power. This is a conversation that is difficult to have with women (often for fear of seeming weak) and with mainstream, beer drinking men (often for fear of seeming too sissy). This is the real need for men: a space where they can discuss their issues with openhearted people with similar experiences - which, by definition, excludes women.
Last year, I walked 3,000 km from Vancouver to Mexico talking about men's issues around love and relationship. If you're interested, there's more information here: www.indiegogo.com/monarchspirit
Cel
1 year ago
Kaz - are you seriously
Kaz - are you seriously pretending that the concept of Women's Centres are apolitical?
Do you really think we are that stupid? Women's centres and feminist groups definitely do not promote a political ideology of women-as-oppressed / men-as-privileged. They definitely don't assert that society is a patriarchal hegemony, etc.
Go on, tell us another one.
As for the objections against the men's centre...frankly pathetic.
Men vastly overrepresented in suicides...not a problem. Boys and men being underrepresented and disproportionately represented in school drop-outs and failures from kindergarten to university...not a problem.
Men being the majority of alchoholics, homeless...not a problem.
Male victims of rape and domestic violence being denied help and resources by the government...not a problem.
Not a problem, that is, according to the Women's Centre.
I know people like you want to perpetuate the false idea that women are more oppressed and discriminated against than men are.
But that simply isn't the case.
I'll give you just one example of systemic discrimination that men face:
Suppose I told you that women often receive harsher prison sentences than men do for committing the same crimes (after controlling for such factors as prior criminal record).
The reason is that judges, majority of whom are male, are harsher on women who act against the feminine gender role / stereotype of peace and gentleness.
You would be outraged. Feminist groups would write books about the injustice and unfairness of women being punished more than men for the same crimes. We would never hear the end of it.
But in fact - THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE.
http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/sentencing.pdf
telus employee
1 year ago
Sounds like privledeged Brats are running the SFSS
Come on!
A Men's Centre?
The SFU student Society seems to have been taken over by a combination of spoiled rich kids and ignorant conservatives. Maybe they could build a 'Centre for Investment Bankers distressed by the financial crisis' (in the name of equality of course)
Kaz
1 year ago
Kreditanstalt & Cel: I
Kreditanstalt & Cel:
I appreciate much about the points you've both made - I'm not here to pretend that a centre that examines critically the problems facing men, and helping to promote thoughtful understandings of masculinity that would be a crucial step to overcoming many of the very problems you've identified. I'd submit two things to you both:
A) Certainly there are wider political ramifications to anything like a Women's Centre, but I was aiming to make the point that you can't dispute as "political" the fact that history tells us that for most women, their experience of the world is fundamentally different than men, in a way that can't necessarily be laid at the feet of individual men. And it is this material difference that is the reason why the Women's Centre remains a vital resource for women students at SFU. What is the substance behind your allegations that it exists to promote this "evil" notion that men are to be blamed? And your libertarian claims about Canada being a society of "free individuals" ignores a key democratic principle - that there be mechanisms in place to prevent the tyranny of the powerful and the majority of society. And in view of the inarguable history of masculine dominance in Canada (i.e. patriarchy), I'd argue that the Women's Centre fulfils precisely this role.
B) I'd ask if perhaps we could dial down the rhetoric and keep this more focused on how resource centres might work for the campus community? And Cel, your post assumes an awful lot about what I do and don't agree with, just because I acknowledge the existence of rape culture - feminism, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, is a complex body of thought, and I certainly don't espouse every claim ever made in its name. And what exactly are the sources of your charges against the Women's Centre?
C) As a recent member of the campus community, I happen to be privy to goings-on at the SFSS that gives me every reason to be sceptical of the current administration's advocacy of establishing a vaguely defined Men's Centre without any consultation with campus stakeholders. This initiative is the brainchild of the treasurer, and it's not clear under whose auspices the project is going to be started. As I said in an earlier post, the SFSS's administration that has a track record of going to great lengths to undermine campus groups dedicated to social justice causes, so you'll pardon me if I don't have a lot of sympathy for the notion that the centre envisioned will address the issues you claim it will.
djbay1
1 year ago
Across North America
This discussion about "Men's Studies" has been debated on many campuses across North America.
Lionel Tiger, a professor of anthropology at Rutgers University,has raised this issue in various public forums since 1999. He has been consistently criticized by the faculty of "Women's Studies" programs in every case. I am no expert on these matters but there is a great deal of practical evidence that I see to support the need for "Men's Studies" as opposed to "Gender " or "Women's Studies". The first, and the one that carries the greatest weight with me is the change in the gender mix on university campuses. There are now a large majority of women at universities across North America. Why? No one in "Gender Studies" or "Women's Studies" has investigated this drastic change in the makeup of the student population, but they celebrate it. I will suggest to you that the culture of victimization used by most "Women's Studies" programs to rationalize their continued existence is no longer the norm in our culture. Instead we have a situation where the girls are now given positive reinforcement and boys are relegated to the "what do you expect - he's a boy" comments. As for power, watch the grade six girls lord it over the grade six boys on the playground at most schools......most never recover. These are situations I have seen and my children have experienced.
They are not scholarly observations with the depth of explanations that a more learned person would present, but they are observations. No one with the education to understand them let alone present a plan to deal with the aftermath has been trained by the existing "Gender Studies" or "Women's Studies" Departments. Perhaps the focus of the argument presented by the student film and the various comments against the "Men's Space" explains why.
Mark Neil
1 year ago
Women's centre?
Given the utter hostility to the idea of a men's centre, let me point you to a few examples of why a men's centre is needed, and ironically, I will use the existing women's centre to do so.
http://www.sfuwomenctr.ca/faqs.html
Under the question "What is the Male Allies Project?" The women's centre states: "We know that many men are concerned with the way masculinity denegrates women by making them into sexual objects, is homophobic, encourages violence, and discourages emotional expression"
That's a rather hostile view of masculinity. It uses that kind of terminology a few times, but that's the line that most clearly demonstrates the women's centre's view of men and masculinity.
When asked "Where is the men's centre", it's response is "The simple answer is that the men's centre is everywhere else.", but offers no such examples. You see this again in the video, where men are told they have all sorts of places, but nobody is willing to provide examples. We're told we living in a male dominated society, but when men seek to build something women already have, as would be equal, the funding supposedly used for all these rape victims goes into opposing that equality, with nothing short of rhetoric and hate to stand on. Doesn't that show just how little male power actually exists? The fact this WILL get shut down will only demonstrate it that much more.
On the male allies page of the women's centre, they make clear that men's role in this program isn't to help and address men's issues, it is to be indoctrinated. To quote:An opportunity for men to connect and talk about how to stop the negative issues that impact their girlfriends, wives, sisters and female relitives and friends. Their own issues aren't important or worth discussing.
Worst off is the promotion within the video that there is no men's movement, there is. There has been for a long time, it's just it is only allowed to exist on the internet, because male spaces to discuss such topics get this kind of hostility and opposition. This only goes to show just how little men actually matter to the feminist supposed "equality" movement.
bpither1
1 year ago
When I was 18 I deliberately
When I was 18 I deliberately put myself in UNSAFE conditions to learn about the REAL world.
The lessons learned were far more instructive than artificially created talk shops.
Buck up boys and girls - the world is tough and experiencing it is the best way to learn what you need to learn to survive.
Peter Allen
1 year ago
SFSS Board's action disingenuous, anti-feminist, unproductive
Great article, and great video.
The current Board of the SFSS has used every opportunity possible to undermine student-run progressive programming, be unaccountable to its membership and foster conservative student culture to the exclusion of functioning as a student union.
There does need to be spaces and communities where men can go to talk about the difficulties of masculinity(ies), experiences with sexual assault (being the assaulted or the assaulter), consent and sexual health, emotional health, etc, etc.
The Women's Centre has facilitated very valuable male-allies groups, and the Sexual Assault Working Group has been building the base for an across-gender space. SFPIRG and Out On Campus have also done great gender justice programming.
The SFSS has the opportunity to work with the groups already doing the work to help fill service gaps, but the Board has been too pre-occupied with pushing de-facto cuts on these services for its own ideological reasons. The way it is pursuing this "Mens Centre" is only continuing down this path, and there has been no explicit mandate so far for this space to work towards meaningful gender justice.
dave49
1 year ago
The last time there was a notion of a Men's movement...
The last time there was a notion of a Men's movement, about 15 to 20 years ago, the whole thing became a laughing stock because of people like Justin Sterling and his workshops. Faux-initiation rituals with men running through the forest looking for deer pellets and 'keeping it secret'. Well, eventually the wives started hearing about this and it was doomed once the MSM started mocking it into oblivion.
I know a guy who had to deal with his wife after one of his buddies admitted what went on to his wife. For all the relevant writings of Sam Keane and others, the whole idea of men's issues was seen as a joke and disappeared.
I myself went to one of Justin's Sterling's pitch sessions for his gender workshops and found little to overcome my skepticism. Instead, he tried to guilt us into attending because some of our friends had worked so hard to put on his visit.
The people I first heard about these workshops from were followers of Werner Erhard's The Forum, workshop junkies as a roommate observed.
As for these guys at SFU, I'm really not aware of anything that would suggest interest in another men's movement.
G Butler
1 year ago
Read this news article and
Read this news article and maybe women who don't understand why men would need a mens centre will open their eyes and think "yes" it makes sense. A mens centre is not about how a man should be for women, it's how men can help themselves. That's not sexist, that's common sense.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/opinion/mcpherson-junior-seau/index.html?eref=rss_us&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_us+%28RSS%3A+U.S.%29&utm_content=Google+International
Paul Elam
1 year ago
Get over it
Personally. I have had enough of this BS. Men have fallen off in academe steadily for the past 40 years. They now constitute about 40% of students in higher education, with that number predicted to drop another 10% over the next 20 years. Likewise they are experiencing significant problems academically in all levels of education before college. And you people are still threatened that men may want to come together to examine these and other problems?
Not buying it. The male shills that went on that video to parrot the women-first-and-only feminist line should stand down and indeed support their brothers for having the courage to stand up and say they count as human beings.
This article is trash.
AlexJ12345
1 year ago
"To me that's like saying,
"To me that's like saying, 'Oh well, they have an African group on campus and therefore we should have a white group'. If anybody proposed having an all-white group, there would be some big problems with that."
-------------
Do they not recognize logic at this "university"? What a scary, Orwellian, Politically Correct place that must be.
PaulQ
1 year ago
Men deserve equal rights
One of the landmarks of the western society is the neutrality of the government; the government doesn’t have a gender, doesn’t have a color, and doesn’t have a religion, doesn’t have a race.
Based on that the government should provide equal access to services to all citizens, tax payers, without any gender discrimination, but is this the case? I would argue that this is not the case at all, and the discrimination is intentional and the reason is the Institutionalized misandry sponsored by the feminist movement and corrupted misandrist agents in the *Patriarchal* government.
1. Discrimination in healthcare:
1 out of each 8 men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer and 1 out of 27 will die, while 1 out of 9 women will be diagnosed with breast cancer and 1 out 27 will die, but the government spends twice the amount of money on breast cancer research than prostate cancer research1.
2. Discrimination in family courts and Domestic Violence (DV): (Institutionalized misandry in domestic violence and family courts) feminists’ legislators like University of New Brunswick Professor, Linda C. Neilson argues that if a man complains about an abusive wife then ,basically, he’s lying because the vast majority of DV is perpetrated against women2, objections:
A.
• Professor Neilson prejudges the case without even analyzing the case and all of the sophomoric and dishonest arguments present implies without looking at the evidence that the male is lying, and thus violates the rights of the male to get a fair trial.
• Using the vague language of vast majority is misleading since it means more than 50% while implies 80% or more; the actual percentage is 54% as per statistics Canada3.
B.
• Men are removed from the lives of their children 90% of the times by family courts.
contd..
PaulQ
1 year ago
Men deserve equal rights
One of the landmarks of the western society is the neutrality of the government; the government doesn’t have a gender, doesn’t have a color, and doesn’t have a religion, doesn’t have a race.
Based on that the government should provide equal access to services to all citizens, tax payers, without any gender discrimination, but is this the case? I would argue that this is not the case at all, and the discrimination is intentional and the reason is the Institutionalized misandry sponsored by the feminist movement and corrupted misandrist agents in the *Patriarchal* government.
1. Discrimination in healthcare:
1 out of each 8 men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer and 1 out of 27 will die, while 1 out of 9 women will be diagnosed with breast cancer and 1 out 27 will die, but the government spends twice the amount of money on breast cancer research than prostate cancer research1.
2. Discrimination in family courts and Domestic Violence (DV): (Institutionalized misandry in domestic violence and family courts) feminists’ legislators like University of New Brunswick Professor, Linda C. Neilson argues that if a man complains about an abusive wife then ,basically, he’s lying because the vast majority of DV is perpetrated against women2, objections:
A.
• Professor Neilson prejudges the case without even analyzing the case and all of the sophomoric and dishonest arguments present implies without looking at the evidence that the male is lying, and thus violates the rights of the male to get a fair trial.
• Using the vague language of vast majority is misleading since it means more than 50% while implies 80% or more; the actual percentage is 54% as per statistics Canada3.
B.
• Men are removed from the lives of their children 90% of the times by family courts.
contd..
PaulQ
1 year ago
Men deserve equal rights.
3. Discrimination in male studies and research departments in the universities and colleges across the country:
While:
• Men commit suicide three times more than women4
• 5 years gap in life expectancy5
• 61% of university graduate are women6, more young men than women are experiencing difficulties with school7.
Feminists still argue that men don’t deserve equal opportunity to establish men’s studies, men don’t deserve equal rights!
Furthermore, the prejudicial assumptions those feminists’ are putting forwards, projected based on their own movement sexist intentions, portrait an unrivaled bigotry and hatred towards men.
Based on the constitution and the charter humans’ rights, Men deserve equal rights.
references:
1. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/NCI/research-funding
2. Linda C. Neilson, “Assessing Mutual Partner-Abuse Claims In Child Custody and Access Case,” Family CourtReview, Vo. 42 No. 3, July 2004, 411-438.
3. http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fv-vf/about-aprop/
4. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/hlth66b-eng.htm
5. List by the CIA World Factbook (2011 estimates)
6. http://www42.statcan.gc.ca/smr08/2011/smr08_153_2011-eng.htm
7. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-004-x/200410/7423-eng.htm
ex-feminist for...
1 year ago
The Women's Center Should Watch Pointing Fingers
The augment from the women's center, calming to be in support of the men’s center ONLY if it teaches what the women's center says, is a piss poor argument. Neither men nor the men’s center is going to dictate what the women’s center does; so the women's center has no say on the men’s center. Both centers will have to follow the same ethics code set by the school. But for the first time in many years men will have an equal voice and resource in collage that isn't dictated by feminists or women. That is what the women's center is afraid of... being challenged and not having ALL say in how both genders act or think. News flash… the words “gender” and “equality” is trademark owned by feminists. Feminists are going to have to give up the idea that they are.
ex-feminist for...
1 year ago
The Women's Center Should Watch Pointing Fingers Cont...
Too the so called “feminists”… You are doing exactly what you clam men did in the 70's; ignoring the other gender, trying to silence the other gender and using the excuse "well they just don’t need it". “Needing it” is irrelevant! If it’s a right for one group of humans… it’s a right for ALL humans! If women have one, men should have one too. THAT IS EQUITY! END OF ARGUMENT!
If feminists where for equality for all sexes they would be right behind having equal centers. Where’s your “support for equity” feminist? Because I sure as hell don’t seeing you guys acting for equality. Answer me that! Tell me why you are checking between peoples legs before giving them a thumbs up on your support in school but still saying it’s unacceptable at home, work or any other place on this planet? This is exactly what you blame “evil sexist men” for doing. Yet here you are doing the exact same thing while still trying to convince people you are for “men and women” and “equality”. You can’t argue against double standards in favor of men and then support double standards in favor of women. Not while you fly the flag of equality. There is a word for that type of action… it’s called LYING!
This all reminds me of an old saying my mother often said; an old school feminist herself. Actions speak louder than words. Your actions are redefining feminism to the rest of world. So congratulations! You can now define yourselves as bigots, liars and sexists. This is why I am no longer a NOW member and have no support for today’s so called “feminists”. But by all means, keep up that sexism in the name of feminism! And do it with pride! Don’t let your conscience, sense of fairness, or compaction for other humans get in the way. After all, your one of the good guys… oh I mean good girls. Why? Because you said so. As an ex-feminist, you bunch of sexist pigs disgust me.
ex-feminist for...
1 year ago
For The Women... DON”T LET YOUR VOICE BE SILENCED!
For the women who have commented or want to comment in support of having equal women’s and men’s centers… DON”T LET YOUR VOICE BE SILENCED! Don’t let these sexist feminists dictate how you should think or feel… about men or their center. Don’t let your friends make sexist comments against men or their center while remaining quiet. You KNOW having a center for men when we already have a center for women is equal. SUPPORT IT!
Many years ago women spoke out against sexism against women. Many men saw sexism for what it was and stood by women. Even more men support women’s rights today than ever before. Now women can do the same for these men. SUPPORT THESE MEN AND FIGHT AGAINST THIS SEXIST HATRED TOWARD THEM! After all, men (like all humans) need help too. Thanks for your support and DON’T FORGET THE OTHER HALF OF THE HUMAN RACE, MEN!
Kat009
1 year ago
Do feminists not see the irony here?
This utterly RIDICULOUS opposition to a men's centre could effectively be dubbed -The Salem "Warlock" trials.
antimisandry
1 year ago
Typical feminism denies men where possible
This comes as no surprise to see feminist groups getting upset that men want a space for themselves. Some might say "go to the pub" - it's PUBlic, no confidentiality there.
On with the claims:
"its backers don't acknowledge the reasons why women in particular need a safe space." - nor do I. Either both sexes deserve a safe-space where they can discuss their problems, or neither.
"That way of thinking ignores that women, overall, still face more discrimination and hardships than men." - so say feminists only. Men face hardships & discriminations that feminists simply refuse to acknowledge. So when they add-up their little "who has it worst" calculator, it's no shock that they see women with 99% and men as 1%.
"I don't necessarily agree that 'formal equality' works." Indeed, it seems everytime something that benefits men in someway comes along, feminists get upset.
"just hang out and take a nap" so it's money well spent...
"You could then talk about what living in a rape culture is all about from the masculine standpoint." OR we could discuss the feminist misandric sexism POV that 'all men are rapists' mentality and educate men about the false-rape culture perpetuated by feminists.
"If they're going to have a Men's Centre it has to be for the right reasons," Cleary-Dulai added. " IOW, she wants the 'right reasons' to be about demonizing men & putting women above men, just as the women's centre does, as she's already demonstrated with her 'rape culture' claims.
"If there is going to be a Men's Centre, she thinks it should happen in collaboration with the Women's Centre, not in competition." Again, so as the WC can control what goes on...
antimisandry
1 year ago
Typical feminism denies men where possible
This comes as no surprise to see feminist groups getting upset that men want a space for themselves. Some might say "go to the pub" - it's PUBlic, no confidentiality there.
On with the claims:
"its backers don't acknowledge the reasons why women in particular need a safe space." - nor do I. Either both sexes deserve a safe-space where they can discuss their problems, or neither.
"That way of thinking ignores that women, overall, still face more discrimination and hardships than men." - so say feminists only. Men face hardships & discriminations that feminists simply refuse to acknowledge. So when they add-up their little "who has it worst" calculator, it's no shock that they see women with 99% and men as 1%.
"I don't necessarily agree that 'formal equality' works." Indeed, it seems everytime something that benefits men in someway comes along, feminists get upset.
"just hang out and take a nap" so it's money well spent...
"You could then talk about what living in a rape culture is all about from the masculine standpoint." OR we could discuss the feminist misandric sexism POV that 'all men are rapists' mentality and educate men about the false-rape culture perpetuated by feminists.
"If they're going to have a Men's Centre it has to be for the right reasons," Cleary-Dulai added. " IOW, she wants the 'right reasons' to be about demonizing men & putting women above men, just as the women's centre does, as she's already demonstrated with her 'rape culture' claims.
"If there is going to be a Men's Centre, she thinks it should happen in collaboration with the Women's Centre, not in competition." Again, so as the WC can control what goes on...
Hal Legere
1 year ago
Equality
From SFU Women's Centre website
Where is the men's centre?
The simple answer is that the men's centre is everywhere else...
From SFU site
Women’s Centre
The SFU Women’s Centre is open to all self-identified campus women—undergraduate and graduate students, faculty and staff. The Women’s Centre is a women-only space,...
So, if the Women's Centre is a women only space, logic dictates that the Men's Centre is similarly, a men only site. The Men's Centre as defined by the Women's Centre is everywhere else.
It would seem that it would therefore be difficult for women to take the bus home, go see their professor in their office, get lunch or even go to class without transgressing in the men only space of the Men's Centre.
I am not university educated so this may not be a word,in any event, these statements by representatives of the Women's Centre are the height of ludicrousness.
I'm just reading what they are saying.
wallacej
51 weeks ago
Men and Women: We're all human.
Over the past few generations there have been massive shifts in societal stereotypes of what makes a man, a 'man' and a woman, a 'woman'. This has shaken the idea that we are somehow fundamentally different in the way that we feel, act and live. As these changes become more cemented in our society, we are quickly realizing that we are more alike than not. It is the primary reason why women currently outnumber the amount of men in the workforce in the USA and are rapidly assuming the most important roles in our society alongside men (The End of Men, CBC Documentary). It is clear. The differences between men and women are becoming less and less distinguished and we are all starting to realize that everyone is human. In today’s society it is not about what sex you are but who you are. Men no longer have to hide in a shell that society has built for them, just the same as women. That means that out of the woodwork comes issues that have been long repressed and misunderstood. Solving these issues will be paramount to solving issues for both sexes and is why Clearly-Dulai should be excited about this opportunity.
If this new centre at SFU is a place for men to come and discuss these issues, I think that is a great initiative. If Clearly-Dulai really wants to live in a more just and equal world where everyone is treated with dignity and respect for who they are and not who society wants them to be, then she should be helping to build the centre instead of projecting the same ignorant stereotypes that she despises. Preventing women from being ‘victimized or marginalized’ has just as much to do with solving women’s issues as it does with men’s because if they are not the same, they are strongly linked and therefore issues for all humans.
tyciol
27 weeks ago
discrimination
"women, overall, still face more discrimination and hardships than men"
If by 'overall' we mean worldwide, sure, I'll buy that.
But in terms of Canada, in terms of Simon Fraser university: no. No, ladies, we're not going to accept that you do, just because you say so. Convince us. Respect our opinions and convince us that it is so.