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'Tsunami' of City Dwellers a Global Threat: Harcourt
Canada needs to lead in urban eco-design, urges former Vancouver mayor.
A fast, massive shift from rural to urban living.
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The Trouble with Paradise
Imagining a great city is easy. Building it is hard.
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Two former premiers ally with Campbell
He was Vancouver's mayor before becoming premier of British Columbia, so no one could mistake Mike Harcourt for a city-hating, back-to-the-land kind of guy.
But his message lately paints a dark picture of city life in the future -- unless Canada shows the way in designing and building green urban systems.
Harcourt and other experts say a massive global population shift towards city life is undermining efforts to combat climate change and achieve sustainable communities.
A massive global shift
Millions of people are flooding the world's urban centres, placing increased pressure on infrastructure and available resources. According to the United Nations, the world's urban population surpassed its rural population in 2008.
As a result, city officials have to find the means to construct more buildings and roads and provide more goods and services to meet the demands of swelling communities. It also means there will be a greater need for agricultural land and access to clean sources of drinking water.
Add this to the push in developing nations to attain Western standards of living, and you get an urban tsunami, said Harcourt during a presentation held at UBC Robson Square in September. It was a theme he picked up on again when he spoke at the Resilient Cities conference last week in Vancouver.
There are already warning signs on the horizon that the full force of the tsunami will hit sooner than expected.
Harcourt, who chairs QUEST -- an action group designed to improve Canada's urban energy systems -- and is the associate director of the UBC Continuing Studies Centre for Sustainability, says that projections show a global population expansion of four billion people or more in a little more than 40 years. And 75 per cent of the 10 billion people expected to inhabit the planet by 2050 will reside in urban centres.
"It's not just the size of population growth overall," Harcourt told his Robson Square audience. "It's where it's happening; in cities."
Asia and Africa most challenged
The bulk of the population expansion will take place in the developing world, mainly in Asia and Africa, Harcourt said. This shift to city life will place a great deal of pressure on the infrastructure and services available in those urban centres.
Particularly worrying for Harcourt and his colleagues is the prospect that the developing world could end up replicating the ecologically destructive ways cities have evolved in the developed world.
China and India, Harcourt pointed out, are undergoing a rapid technological revolution in a bid to attain the modern conveniences found in the Western world -- a goal that, when coupled with population growth, could have dire consequences for the planet.
"The global population increase has gone from one billion in 1800, to two billion by 1930, to six billion by the year 2000, to eight and a half billion by 2025, to nine to ten billion by 2050. . . that's the problem; it's population growth."
Harcourt adds that while population growth in and of itself may not seem alarming, the rate at which population numbers are climbing and the extent to which this growth is occurring in cities should be raising some eyebrows.
As the equivalent of the population of two Chinas makes its way to the city from the countryside in search of jobs and other opportunities, governments will be faced with the challenge of how to manage rapid growth on an unprecedented scale.
Canada's unsustainable city-dwellers
Canada's population is already largely urban. About 80 per cent of Canadians reside in some form of urban centre. Still, Harcourt says Canadian lifestyles remain far from sustainable.
The reason? We consume significantly more resources than the rest of the world. To supply and absorb the goods, services and waste of an average Canadian would require approximately seven hectares of productive land per person. Multiply that by the 6.7 billion people living on the planet and you get a number that far exceeds the estimated 13.5 billion hectares of land and water available for human use.
That fact alone has many researchers concerned about the future sustainability of our global communities.
William Rees, whose concept of the ecological footprint has received international attention, said what Canada and the world need to do right now is establish national population policies.
This is necessary, Rees explained in a telephone interview, because not having such a policy in place will mean that communities will continue to expand at an unsustainable rate, placing even more pressure on the global ecosystems required to support human life and, particularly, modern lifestyles.
Consumption rising three times faster than population
Rees, a professor in the School of Community and Regional Planning at UBC, said his real concern is not that the global population is increasing by about one per cent each year, it's that per capita consumption is increasing at an average yearly rate of three per cent. That equals a grand total of a four per cent increase in the rate of consumption globally each year.
"Which means we're doubling our impact in about 17-and-a-half years to 20 years."
Governments will have to take the reins to avoid having a catastrophic impact on the earth's ecosystems, already stretched to the limit by demands from urban and rural dwellers alike, Rees said.
Policies, such as smart growth, have received a lot of accolade as well as some dissension from the sustainability community.
In a paper on population growth in cities Randal O'Toole questions the benefits smart growth policies have had on achieving sustainable cities.
"Thanks to smart-growth policies, Vancouver and Victoria are the least affordable housing markets in Canada," says O'Toole, a senior fellow with the Cato Institute who studies urban growth, public land and transportation issues. In the paper, published in 2009 in The Electronic Journal of Sustainable Development, O'Toole states that despite "decades of smart-growth-like land-use regulation in Europe, European travel habits are not significantly different from those in the U.S.: where Americans drive for 84 per cent of travel, Europeans drive for 79 per cent."
That's where governments need to step in, according to Rees. Smart growth principles, such as housing densification and decreasing the distance people have to travel to get from home to work and play, require government investment in affordable housing and mass transit.
Sharing sustainable solutions is a must
At the international level, it comes down to sharing the information we have about how to create sustainable cities.
The key issue here, according to Harcourt, is to not have 10 billion people living like the average Canadian does now by the year 2050.
"If the Chinese and the Indians decided to copy our kind of sprawl -- car, big house, misuse of energy, misuse of scarce natural resources -- we would need four planets, but there's only one."
The idea is to avoid a global urban tsunami where the rapid, and often unsustainable, expansion of cities results in more greenhouse gasses spewed into the atmosphere and a heavier reliance on manufactured consumer goods.
"Right now, one half of all construction is taking place in China," Rees said. "And it's inefficient construction using concrete, which is incredibly energy intensive, and the main source of energy is coal."
It's up to Canada and other developed nations, therefore, to share "our best examples of modern construction technology, for free."
Developing countries will be looking to Canada for solutions to sustainably manage large urban populations.
'If Canada can't, no one can'
According to Harcourt, who served as mayor of Vancouver from 1980 to 1986, and NDP premier of B.C. from 1991 to 1996, "If Canada can't become sustainable, no one can."
And Harcourt believes Canada can become a sustainable leader on the international stage. The best approach to setting a good example, he said, is to consume less and live more modest and less resource-heavy lifestyles.
"Where we are now, we can't sustain, and that's what sustainability is all about."
It will mean condensing cities, moving more people into smaller-sized homes located close to jobs and recreational activities. In other words, smart growth.
Economic factors are likely to convince more individuals that spending hours on the road and paying hundreds of dollars in gas money and thousands on a mortgage doesn't make good economic sense. Still, the close-quarter lifestyle of downtown city life isn't for everyone.
That brings up the difficult question of reducing pressure on the natural environment through population control.
The issue, Harcourt said, is to try to decrease the projected 10 billion people soon to arrive on earth to eight billion or less. The way to get there is not clear-cut, but Harcourt believes that the education and empowerment of women across the world is likely to result in more women choosing to have fewer children.
It may not solve all the problems associated with the urban tsunami so long as per capita consumption rates continue to rise, particularly in the developing world. It could, nonetheless, form part of future government planning, as municipalities, provinces, states and countries consider their carrying capacity and if and when to draw a line on future growth. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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- Seven Goals to Build the Conservative 'Dream'
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- Ottawa posts $9-billion deficit in March despite pledge to avoid spending spree
- BC phases out AirCare to focus on fighting bigger vehicle emissions
- Tsunami senors to be dropped into deep sea off of Vancouver Island
- Student groups file court challenge against Quebec protest law
- ...while on the streets, pirates and ninjas put aside mutual animosity to join student protests
96
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make_up_another...
2 years ago
...sigh
I think I've officially heard the word sustainability too many times! I can't sustain another! I'd like to abstain from this word. And from 'Green'
Or 'Go Green'.
Let's see how many ways we can adulterate these ideas for fun and profit.
I'd like to suggest that all the greenwashing corporations go fuck a green duck. Oh crap now I'm doing it.
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Mr. Nice guy
Mike, errrrrr . . . ummm . . . "and other experts", ". . . lately paints a dark picture of city life in the future -- unless Canada shows the way in designing and building green urban systems."
A ha that deadly word, "unless" again . . .
"Millions of people are flooding the world's urban centres . . ." and of course that is true. But they do not come by choice: they come because antediluvian 17th century land laws force them off their traditional lands.
http://www.theyorkshirelad.ca/New.Nanaimo.Center/new.nanaimo.center.html
And Mike, in his long political career has done zip about that.
Hey Mike if you truly believe, dump your car, give your Galiano place back to its rightful owners . . . and convince Mayor. "Green" City that an insulated white tin roof beats out turf every which way . . .
http://alethonews.blogspot.com/2009/10/agw-has-most-of-characteristics-of.html
The need to be part of the herd is overwhelming . . .
And, huh, all this empty talk is becoming tiresome: not long ago he was toting Vancouver as "paradise". Wha hoppen? Just another smiley band wagoneer I guess.
Newton's second law of thermodynamics: Entropy. Nothing is sustainable.
Erstwhile mayor, erstwhile premier. Yup: nice guy but clueless and ineffectual: like totally.
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Jaw jaw jaw
Do any of these guys. Mike, Bill, et. al, remember Victoria's Dr. Brock Chisholm?
And if they do what have they done to save the world over the last half century?
They sure as hell don't practice what they preached. And until they do they remain just another over paid bad joke . . .
Grumpy
2 years ago
I'm tired of Mikey
Mike Harcourt, a do nothing mayor; a do nothing Premier, whose only notable feats was to help stop a downtown highway and to build a cottage on a cliff, with a sundeck without railings and promptly slips off and almost kills himself.
Mikey's time has come and gone but still, like most politicians, loves the limelight; still wants to be a media maven - move over Bill Van DerZalm.
Mikey, why did you support the RAV/Canada Line, the most unsustainable form of rapid transit (asubway built on a route that doesn't have the ridership to sustain it)? Sorry chum, you do not have the credibility to be listened too.
Please, go back and enjoy your retirement.
Jeffrey J.
2 years ago
Excellent article
It's important to remember there is a difference between what a person says (which is either true or false, independent of the person's other qualities) and what their motives might be. In this case, Mr. Harcourt's comment are bang on. Everything he says is correct; we are seeing increased consumption per capita and we have a major problem. What Mr. Harcourt's motives are I don't know. However, given the fact he is not in power, I am far less concerned. It is mostly people in power who say one thing but fail to deliver on their commitments.
Mike Harcourt ran BC much better than the Campbell regime has done. We lived in a much better province then. Give me Mike Harcourt over these neocons any day of the week.
Great article.
KWD
2 years ago
Population reduction will be the result of circumstance
not choice.
All very interesting but nothing new. The term “smart growth” is a contradiction … it diverts attention from what should be our real goal … smart downsizing. Although Harcourt realizes this, he also knows the chances of reaching global consensus and action on population growth is remote.
Those that thrive on environmental destruction won’t have any part of willingly altering life styles and living with less. Living with less means capitalism must be redefined.
silvervalley
2 years ago
Doesn't The Tyee use spell-check?
"take the reigns," "dissention" ... hmm ...
Perhaps people do want to reign--and take over other reigns--but to take the reins in those domains they should perhaps rein themselves in, if they don't want dissension too horrible to mention.
dorothy
2 years ago
There are two ways
we can do this: follow the old pattern of over-breeding, then effecting eugenics by killing each other. The quick and the dead kind of scenario. Or we could try to apply intelligence to the problem and govern our breeding carefully, but then we might end up with something similar to what evolves in the 'Dune' hexology. Because intelligence is never enough. You also need wisdom. And I'm afraid we killed all the wise ones. They weren't quick enough.
In fact, I believe the gang wars are being pursued so relentlessly, not because we really find it so heinous that these people take out one another, but more because they uncomfortably illustrate the kind of situation we're all facing in truth: Not enough turf. Not enough bread. Some will have to go. Better them than us.
Or - ???? (Now there is a job opportunity!)
freebear
2 years ago
At least this article acknowledged that we are not sustainable
right now.
Too many 'experts' speak of becoming more sustainable and improving sustainability; which assumes/implies that we are currentlt sustainable!
The way we live is not sustainable.
And the only way we will be sustaibable is, as noted by others, by downsizing, or 'smart contraction'.
We need to do with less. Convenience is killing our planet (the only one we have remember!).
A sustainable community/city/town would exist in a 'steady state' with minor inputs and exodus.
A sustainable community is not one that grows for ever; smart or stupid!
We need sustainability.
Trouble is not enough of us want sustainability!
It means sacrifice of which so many are unwilling.
And those that profit from our denial; want to continue to profit from our unsustainable ways; and work hard to turn our wants into needs.
alive
2 years ago
breeding for fun and profit
We could start by requiring a license to breed!
People should perhaps stop filling the world with stray cats and dogs as well as babies?
Unfortunately is appears that the less capable of taking care of themselves they are, the more they assemble new consumers in their care (or lack of).
To achieve this we have to convice the Pope that condoms are one good solution!
David Beers
2 years ago
silvervalley, thanks!
Apologies for the poor copy editing, but with readers like you keeping us honest, we are happy to make fixes when pointed out.
dave49
2 years ago
This all implies growth, and a lot of it
This all implies a lot of growth and redevelopment. Who will pay for this? Is such activity really sustainable if it allegedly for the goal of becoming more sustainable? I don't think so.
I recall reading about China's situation three years ago. They were expecting 300 million people to migrate from rural areas to cities by 2020. This means providing infrastructure, housing, jobs, etc. Think of it, this is like building the ENTIRE urban infrastructure of Canada every year for ten years running. Mind boggling!
In that context, any Canadian leadership in demonstrating how to make cities more sustainable will be a drop in the proverbial bucket that will barely get noticed.
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
The bamboozling goes on...
KWD writes, "All very interesting but nothing new. The term “smart growth” is a contradiction … it diverts attention from what should be our real goal … smart downsizing. Although Harcourt realizes this, he also knows the chances of reaching global consensus and action on population growth is remote.
Those that thrive on environmental destruction won’t have any part of willingly altering life styles and living with less. Living with less means capitalism must be redefined."
I think, the most insightful observation here. The notion of "smart growth" at this point in human history and the development of capitalism is, first, coming to us from the corporate creators of the problem in the first place, and I don't care how suddenly green the corporate hands the flag is being carried by, which should immediately raise red flags. :-) The endless growth drive need of capitalism, in population, cheap labour, war and resources extraction IS the nexus of the problem, whether done smart or dumb. Both options continue the quality of life degradation, with the scale getting ever larger and more intense, at least for "the masses" and the rest of nature.
The schills of "smart" capitalism are loose in the land with a new "feel good" bamboozling ideology. They are trying to reinvent themselves again to somnabulize and absorb their opposition-, as they've done many times, even just across my lifetime, from ndp social democracy which started out life as a much more radical socialism, to rock 'n roll and the long hair rebellion of the hippies, and far out clothes. Now "hip" capitalism is reinventing itself as the New Leprachauns of the Green Capitalism.
" Living with less means capitalism must be redefined"
Redefined, at least. Though I would suggest that what is really needed is the radical "democratization" of the socio-economic culture (along with the political system)", right down to its very plant and board rooms, in all sectors. The value of that, in this context, being the encouragement of a culture of "collective/community control and responsibility" for the consequences of especially economic decisions: You/we fuck up, you/we pay the price no less than if a ruling elite does it to/for you. It would bring the consequences of failure as well as the rewards down to the level of individual and community control, in a way that hasn't existed at least since the demise of primitive early tribalism. (Only now its just on a much larger scale, in a new technological age.)
Capitalism doesn't need to be just "redefined", in my view, an entire new "democracy" dynamic needs to be set loose within human socio-economic culture. This act alone, over time, carrying with it the potential consequence of "qualitatively" moving human society and its underpinning economy as far away from capitalism, as it is itself from slavery. (The echoe is there, but qualitative differences as well.)
Katatak
2 years ago
just DO it!
Sometimes it seems like the whole bloody world is at a standstill when it comes to attaining sustainability. No one country wants to take the necessary steps, waiting instead for some kind of agreement between many nations. Look at how obstinate our federal government is on the issue.
What this world needs is one innovative country to step forward, stop talking and just show the rest of the world how sustainability can be achieved. We're basically going to have to re-imagine everything about the way our species operates in this world, especially our ideas of "growth" and that Frankenstonian monster, "the economy."
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
SpellCheck...
My apology for not running spellcheck on that piece of mine above.
Coyoteman
seth
2 years ago
Telecommuting and 3 day work weeks.
Why is it that these so called experts never bring these two up when considering their silly urbanization ideas. If as many people as possible used these work alternatives, urbanization would slow to a dead halt.
Only thing stopping them are those corrupt Neocon dinosaurs that run business and government these days.
I suppose the problem is all these "experts" have a BA in film or English. Harcourt is an attorney who couldn't find his ass unless somebody kicked it.
He also threw his support to Gordo during the last election over that stupid and now thoroughly debunked "green" tax. Gordo's real estate buds make billions off downtown office building, bridges highways and ineffective transit.
Didy'a think of that Mikey when you got him reelected.
Cheap green no carbon nuclear power will improve lives in small and large third world cities ending their greenhouse gas emissions, while our cities will continue to be sooted out by these these 10 times the cost "renewables" that require maintaining the fossil fuel industry into perpetuity to load balance.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Here's what I'm skeptical about
If I am to believe the AGM skeptics you will have to convince me some version of the following has occurred:
Poorly-funded activist groups, in league with respected scientists worldwide, somehow convince governments that climate change is real. Despite having every reason to want to maintain the status quo, said governments (usually characterized as so incompetent they couldn't manage a lemonade stand) begin an orchestrated P.R. campaign to address the issue, spurred on by a populace eager to contemplate a disastrous future for their children and a significant change to their comfortable lives.
The world's corporations, also eager to climb on a bandwagon that will in all likelihood reshape the capitalist system join in, looking for ways to reduce profits by re-tooling to meet the demands of a green economy. The oil-producing nations, with vast cash reserves, just sit by and watch, and fail to use their economic clout to publicize the scientific data refuting climate change, even though they have everything to lose from a world that runs on sustainable energy.
Armed with a movie and some rock stars, a failed American presidential candidate hoodwinks most of the Western World and in a desire to get invited to Hollywood parties, concerned scientists the world over let this propaganda effort go by unremarked.
Not to be left out polar bears, complicit in the Big Lie, begin swimming out to sea, and commit sea-ppeku by drowning far from shore, in numbers and behaviour that would best be characterized as unprecedented. Speaking of unprecedented, more and more humans burn more and more fossil fuels, but this has no affect on the atmosphere, so experts put their hard-won reputations on the line to aid in the charade, when definitive proof to the contrary would probably mean a Nobel Prize, medals and ribbons galore, and the eternal thanks of an entire globe.
Have I missed anything? It's all a bit hard to swallow frankly.
Frank
2 years ago
Chris
"Have I missed anything?"
Not much, only that the world will be saved if we make energy expensive enough that the poor won't use any because once the poor have to live like animals the rest of us can go on as usual, taking the yacht up to the cottage on Cortes for the weekend while still leaving the lights on at our place in the Lower Mainland.
carfreed
2 years ago
warning
The warning signs have been there for decades.
When people got accustomed to getting about in automobiles we destroyed cities.
The whole downtown area should be closed to traffic and only service vehicles have road rights.
The once most beautiful place in Canada has been destroyed by automobiles.
The city is no filthy, dirty, congested NOISE ridden stinky and STRESSFUL because of this.
I cannot enjoy the Art Gallery, or attending any functions, films, events.
What a STUPID thing to do: make us share streets with automobiles.
Victoria is no horrid as well. Once quaint, it is a war zone.
The TriCities area is wall to wall malls and everybody drives everywhere.
I HATE it.!
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Yes Mr Keam, you have missed
Yes Mr Keam, you have missed something . . .
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming.html
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Yes Mr Keam, you have missed
Yes Mr Keam, you have missed something . . .
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming.html
DenisB
2 years ago
Let's see. All we have to
Let's see. All we have to do is come up with a plan for a zero growth economy. zero population growth would end huge increased in resource needs. However, how do we support all those seniors without young ones to pay taxes. And if we do come up with a plan it'll take about 1.5 generations for the plan to reach fruitition. Political cycle = 4 years.
chances of success = zero.
solution: Enjoy what you have a let future generations worry about it. the dinosaurs becoame extinct and so to will the human race. It's called evolution.
soleprobe
2 years ago
MSM
Much of the commentary, with a few exceptions, is neatly contained within the box of the false left/right paradigm and very similar to popular mainstream views.
This seems to parallel with the articles posted here which are very similar to popular mainstream views, “with a few exceptions” like the article about the housing bubble.
The deception within the articles and commentary themselves, the same spin and identical rhetoric we find in mainstream media, should be called out more often. If the articles do little to distinguish this site from the mainstream, the commentary should step up to the plate to take on that role by challenging the politically correct and the false left/right paradigm.
Skywalker
2 years ago
Let them move south.
I for one would agree to let them all move south. As long as they keep their greedy hands off our natural resources after they have moved to the city. Fat chance of that happening.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Didn't miss a thing thanks
Just didn't sucked in by judging a long term trend on the basis of a few years data.
"WASHINGTON – Have you heard that the world is now cooling instead of warming? You may have seen some news reports on the Internet or heard about it from a provocative new book. Only one problem: It's not true, according to an analysis of the numbers done by several independent statisticians for The Associated Press."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091026/ap_on_sc/us_sci_global_cooling
Chris Keam
2 years ago
The most important paragraph in the story linked above
"In a blind test, the AP gave temperature data to four independent statisticians and asked them to look for trends, without telling them what the numbers represented. The experts found no true temperature declines over time."
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Evolutions
"solution: Enjoy what you have a let future generations worry about it. the dinosaurs becoame extinct and so to will the human race. It's called evolution."
That's evolution? Really? I thought it was when a species adapted to its environment to better ensure its survival.
oldcynic
2 years ago
population
Over 2/3s of BC people live in the Lower Mainland and southern Vancouver Island. Time to start spreading out more by the sounds of it. Trouble is, look at Kamloops and Kelowna....getting unsustainably large already. Sure glad we have more water than some places.
G West
2 years ago
Even the dinosaurs are waking up
"Eleven academies in industrialized countries say that climate change is real; humans have caused most of the recent warming," admitted Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.). "If fire chiefs of the same reputation told me my house was about to burn down, I'd buy some fire insurance."
G West
2 years ago
More from the dinos
An oil-state senator, David Vitter (R-La), said that he, too, wants to "get us beyond high-carbon fuels" and "focus on conservation, nuclear, natural gas and new technologies like electric cars." And an industrial-state senator, George Voinovich (R-Ohio), acknowledged that climate change "is a serious and complex issue that deserves our full attention."
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
the dinosaurs are still among us... in fact.
"Enjoy what you have a let future generations worry about it. the dinosaurs becoame extinct and so to will the human race. It's called evolution."
Other than we can assume from this that you do not have a seed contribution to make to the future, you may still be right of course. But there is as great a likelihood that you will be wrong, especially with your obviously limited understanding of real evolution.
For example, all evolution does not proceed from lower to higher forms, as in onward and upward, but sometimes evolves backward. (Whales and penguins, but two examples that come immediately to mind.)
Likewise, it is not necessarily true that if there is a mass human extinction that occurs, that the entire species will of necessity be wiped out either. The dinosaurs are actually still amongst us, for further example, or some of them, as birds, crocodiles and komodo dragon.
So, you will excuse me if I don't join you on your party into extinction. Especially given your clearly limited grasp of the complexities of life and evolution, you are more than likely wrong anyway. I plan to live forever. And so far, so good. But even if it is only through the extended fruit of my loins. :-)
I will bid you adieu with your own certainty of extinction though. :-) I'd say, in your case at least, you're likely right. Party On!!
G West
2 years ago
And, as Dana Milbank puts it, when the AGW denier came to speak
Inhofe molested the majority by having committee staffers put up on the dais a series of 3-by-5-foot posters with messages such as "Congressional Budget Chief Says Climate Bill Would Cost Jobs" and "U.S. Unemployment High/Why Kill More Jobs With Cap & Trade?" But this failed to cool Inhofe's temper, and by the time his turn came to question the administration witnesses, Inhofe was so steamed that he used his entire five minutes to vent.
He described the Democrats' proposal as "the largest tax increase in -- in history!" Agitated, his utterances disjointed, Inhofe went on: "Now, I also was -- was kind of -- I don't want any of the media to think just because I had to sit here and listen to our good friend Senator Kerry for 28 minutes, that I don't have responses to everything he said."
Nobody doubted that Inhofe had a response. The doubt was whether the response would make any sense.
(source) Washington Post
gerrycgc
2 years ago
Sustainability
If enough humans die of H1N1, we may be able to be sustainable. All we can hope for is a large die-off!! Or is it kill-off. Whatever, die, and save the planet.
Orcinus Cedarbough
2 years ago
Please meet with Gregor Robertson
I suppose Gregor Robinson should set up a consultation with William McDonough and Mike Harcourt in order to get Vancouver back on track after the developmental plundering of the Olympics.
ME2
2 years ago
A cautionary tale?
In times long ago, just prior to its collapse, the Roman Empire had depopulated its countryside by giving its lands, farms, orchards, etc, to various oligarchs in return for various sevices rendered to its ruling class. In short order, and in the pursuance of greater profits, small holdings were consolidated into huge monocultural "agribusinesses", which allowed a more "efficient", smaller, and more easily controlled laour force.
As the cities became congested with displaced and now unemployable rural people, free food was distributed, with all going well until a 30-yr drought happened, and both the wealth and food surplusses began drying up.
Food then became heavily rationed, and so with the people becaming "restless", vaious public entertainments were provided - most notably bloody "sports'- in the huge coliseums.
Thus the origin of the term "bread and circuses", used to lull the sheeple into believing all is just hunky-dory within the boundaries of their narrow realities.
Up until fairly recently, classical historians have always viewed history only in terms of wars won and lost.
I tend to follow the more modern trend which holds that economics comes firt and armies a very dependant second.
wendy s.
2 years ago
Tsunami/Harciyrt
Canadians who have transportation alternatives need to give up their cars. And we must convince other countries (especially China and India) that the private automobile is a hundred-year-old experiment that has failed miserably and must be abandoned. The car has probably done more damage to the earth than all other causes.
Granted, I live in the city, but I gave up my car in 1979. Despite being a member of a car co-op, I have now gone more than two years without driving at all. My guideline is to not use any kind of transportation if I can walk to my destination in half an hour or less. Good for one’s health, good for the planet. A feasible approach for you?
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Sustainability! H1N1! AWG!
Sustainability! H1N1! AWG! Scary! Are we being manipulated?
Well AGW-istas, clearly in the majority, must be right: the earth is warming and I am to blame! What can I say?
Well, I was one, once: until I let go.
Loading up my little four stroke Yamaha isn't going to deny the birth right of my great, great grandsons one iota: I'm happy!
I still wont, though, buy out-of-season Chilean plums: they taste like cardboard!
So, I ditched the clunker and big Kits Point house. Not because I was warm, for the joy of life. That was a while ago, huh!
And I walk to the store, rain or shine: the smell of urban . . . ummmm!
Now back to AGW!
Mrs, always right, Q Public sucks her teeth, sneers, carves the roast and turn up the heat! The herd beckons . . .
Big time academics, bloated egos, fundamental apertures sniffed by pretty co-eds, trench-up more and more. Their words, Devine!
Big time architects, planners, enablers, swell: names in print, medals self-inflicted. Hey, I've bin there . . . I know . . .
Now . . .
May I tell you a little secret, sin embargo? I KNOW I AM RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG.
Why?
Because AGW-ists obsessively wank-off, junket the world biz class, stay in top hotels, drive clunkers, ride bikes, gobble dead animals, energetically pursing a life style totally, like totally, in apposition to the bullshit they preach.
And that gives me comfort: friends, they are, AWG-ista's subliminally admit polar bears will be okay! Our world, a basket case: NOT!
Their chosen life styles tell us so.
Tough world eh. Yup!
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Planning students, with faux
Planning students, with faux sincerity, project theories of green sustainability. Once out side they expose their real selves: it's the regular salary and pension. Can you blame them? Cynical . . . you bet!
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Oh Geez
I don't know why I bother but:
How does the individual failings of those who don't practice what they preach negate the science behind climate change?
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
Rome Is Coming Down...
"I tend to follow the more modern trend which holds that economics comes firt and armies a very dependant second." wrote ME2.
Indeed, Me2. A good analysis.
Though it, the wars of the military, is a false stimulus over time that bleeds the economy, as well as the blood of the young, it is about the only ongoing stimulus the US has right now, to its cycle of production and consumption. At least for those involved in and profiting from the war economy, as it shovels ever greater quanties of production into the maw of their wars'ongoing destruction/consumption.
Still, over time, it produces no real values that add to the lives of ordinary people. Indeed, it robs production and financial capacity to meet their real material needs.(For health care, for example.)
The war economy is a false economy that becomes clearer and clearer, especially, though not exclusively, in defeat... as it is, the US Empire is of greater likelihood to suffer in the end. It is written there in the history of their own Vietnam and the history of all previous Empires, that of their inevitable .
And for us, its bootlick sidekick.
Armies, other than small home defense oriented forces, are really only there to aid in the plunder of the treasure, as in the resources (oil etc.), of other smaller and weaker states. Which is why, short of a serious miscalculation, Russia is unlikely to ever be attacked by the US. And why Iran understandably wants nukes.(Though, as in all thievery, it is necessary to wear a mask to hide one's real motivations.The false mask we/they typically wear over our real intentions is "democracy".)
And eventually, though it can take a very long time, sometimes, folks, even in imperialist countries, weary of sending their young to die for the plundering ends of the ruling class. (Which is why the US Empire relies more and more on the poor of other countries wanting such as citizenship, to join their army and fight their wars: Latinos etc. Whom they then anguish over, when they actually show up more and more in their White neighbourhoods.)
Oh what a tangled web they weave, when first they practice to deceive... and what a tar pit of corruption, pollution, resource depletion and land despoilation they finally create for themselves.
Rome is still coming down.
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Because "blah, blah, blah .
Because "blah, blah, blah . . . those who don't practice what they preach" are the preachers . . . and by their actions ye shall know them . . .
Lighten up . . . pedal gently . . .
KWD
2 years ago
acronym confusion
Coyoteman, thanks for your (earlier) comments. I agree 100%. An entirely new dynamic is required and a redefinition of democracy requires a corresponding change in our understanding of why-we-think-the-way-we-do before there will be any balancing of the democratic deficit. Unfortunately, the tendency is to look outside ourselves for answers to the problem. I hold little hope of that changing, on scale that will be meaningful.
Urbanismo; interesting read. But tell me … because my alleged mind is having difficulty following the global warming acronym laden ping pong ball much less knowing who’s winning … what’s the difference between AWG and AGW, or, for that matter, AGM (not yours)?
Two or three degress is not the answer I’m looking for.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Choosing to ignore the
Choosing to ignore the question?
It's quite simple, but I'll rephrase. Do you or do you not believe human actions have contributed to climate change? Do you think we can successfully adapt our lifestyles to mitigate those changes?
Isn't there an old saying about the Devil quoting scripture?
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Acronym-tacular
I used AGM but meant AGW. Sorry for the confusion.
Urbanismo
2 years ago
AGW: Anthropomorphic Global
AGW: Anthropomorphic Global Warming. Sorry for the screw-up.
Scientifically the earth is currently cooling: sailing the Straits last summer was anecdotally convincing. Previously linked graphs make the point scientifically.
The Medieval Maunder Minimum was a mini ice age. Europe experienced a mini ice age in the 1800's. We may be in for another.
Gregor's "green" obsession is misplace. An insulated white tin rook is more environmentally responsive than turf: for many reasons, but lacks the charisma . . .
Wandering the lower polluting the lower Ionosphere on Olympic business tells me he does not believe his own rhetoric. I would prefer he address Vancouver's critical housing.
Bill Rees, David Susuki, Mike Harcourt and Gordon Price should be reminded they are influencing impressionable minds. The former has a propensity to lecture on high then bugger off to "Montreal in the case of the last time I attended, running away from penetrating questions.
AGW is in the same league as H1N1: a Bernay's type manipulation for reason.
By the way I thought this thread was about Mike Harcourt!
KWD
2 years ago
Thanks
The shift in commentary, away from Harcourt, seems to be an inescapable human frailty. Without it Shelley's Frankenstein could never have become a monster.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Anecdotes are amusing, but they're not science
"Scientifically the earth is currently cooling: sailing the Straits last summer was anecdotally convincing. Previously linked graphs make the point scientifically."
It was sunny earlier in the week, then cloudy. Now it's raining. Ergo it will always rain, harder and harder. I think I will go buy some scuba gear.
Your graphs have already been discredited repeatedly Urbanismo, yet you refuse to accept that a decade of cooling is entirely reasonable within the long-term projections of climate change and AGW which demonstrate the atmosphere is steadily growing hotter overall. It's baffling to say the least.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
thread topic
"By the way I thought this thread was about Mike Harcourt!"
Actually, the topic of the article was urbanization near as I can tell, but it all went awry in comment #2 when somebody started linking to self-aggrandizing websites and discredited Denialist junk science while trashing Mike Harcourt.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
The topic IS Mike Harcourt
One is always free to resist being drawn off topic.
Frank
2 years ago
Mike Harcourt?
But if he has to be the subject we're all going to get really bored.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Really?
Why do the people interviewed (Harcourt, Rees, O'Toole) and the author keep going on about urban densification then?
Frank
2 years ago
Practice what they preach
I don't agree with you on global warming but I do agree with you on environmentalists.
However, maybe we're just looking at them the wrong way, rather than wondering why they don't support things like salmon, rivers and social justice and instead always seem to be talking to business people about how nice it would be if some corporation donated to some "green" fund or hired one of them as a consultant, maybe we should just assume they're Liberals with a new angle and be done with it.
Frank
2 years ago
oops
That last comment was meant to be directed at you urbanismo
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
Harcourt... or I can't stop yawning.
"But if he has to be the subject we're all going to get really bored." wrote Frank.
To say the least. :-) Besides, conversations often start off on one subject or area thereof, and drift into other aspects.
I don't see why we should feel like our feet are nailed to the floor in these threads.
On the other hand, if Harcourt is your forte, fly at 'et.
And a good reply to urbanismo about at least many "environmentalists", it seems to me as well, Frank. Which is likely why they get so anal about the left-right paradigm. Much agree, in fact.
OilbertaRedTory
2 years ago
Canadian Urban Habitats
with modern design innovations (from 1976!)
http://www.nfb.ca/film/Design_Innovations_for_Canadian_Settlements/
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
"self-aggrandizing websites & discredited Denialist junk science
When I start reading these kind of characterizations, I really start reaching the point where I cannot take this Global Warming stuff seriously.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
telecommuting and work
I think Seth makes a valuable point upthread. I wonder why we aren't shooting for more people working from home? Wouldn't society be better off if we could repurpose the suburbs as more than just living space? I envision people free to work from home, to spend some time each day tending a vegetable garden when they would otherwise be driving to and from their work and having the kind of self-sufficiency that comes from a more DIY existence. How many people would trade the intrusion of a supervisor monitoring them by webcam and keystroke logger for a chance to bow out of at least one part of the ratrace?
KWD
2 years ago
McLuhan's global village is here
and telecommuting is no longer the way of the future,
It's been around for more than a decade that I'm aware of, and it works better than expected.
In fact it works so well there are millions of folks that can't wait for the opportunity to suffer the intrusive webcam and keystroke logger. The problem is, they live in places like India and Malaysia.
This has resulted in a great many folks having lots of time to tend their gardens.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
telecommuting and work
Well, I would say there's a difference between outsourcing one's job and having the same person do it in a different place. Why are we so reluctant to work from home in North America? Personal decision or corporate intransigence? A combination of both? Identifying the barriers can only help IMO.
KWD
2 years ago
Yes, there is a difference ...
telecommuting is the tip of the iceberg; outsourcing is the part below the surface.
It's not a case of being reluctant, it's a matter of fact ... outsourcing cuts costs for the employer. Jobs are being outsourced and a great many of those jobs are middle/higher income that could very well be done here at home. The barrier has been identified ... and it's measured in dollars. Keeping the work here means less profit.
The result is a lengthening of the unemployment lines and a surge in 'university degrees' holding down multiple service sector jobs.
Sorry if I sound too critical but I've seen it happen. It starts innocently ... an offer to work at home, help get the software functioning and, voila, the next thing you know the job is in another country.
OilbertaRedTory
2 years ago
Doctors Characterizing Global Warming ...
as a serious public health issue :
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/global-health/ucl-lancet-climate-change.pdf
What junk does 'Dr' of Denial smoke ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYgLAPhbyKg
Still demanding answers from Oddballs ...
Chris Keam
2 years ago
"Sorry if I sound too
"Sorry if I sound too critical but I've seen it happen"
Not at all. Those are valid issues.
ME2
2 years ago
vanished integrity
And why, I'm tempted to ask, does the syndrome that KWD ends up describing seem to have that sure ring of truth?
So why do we still hear praise for corporate programs designed to increase productivity by inspiring company loyalty?......one way, of course.
Urbanismo
2 years ago
UCL Global Health Commission
Whoooooo ah . . . let's not equate smoking, carcinogenic industrial effluent with AGW.
We have a big industrial clean-up and off-shoring-jobs socio/economic disaster that hasn't yet register.
Try looking at it from a self-defence point of view: all those AGW and H1N1 adherents are looking down the wrong end of the tube . . .
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
RE: Still demanding answers from Oddballs ..
As it seems to have been presented in another thread, it looks like the Oddballs are winning.
In more ways than one.
A quick trip to the grocery store yesterday and guess who was on the cover of Reader's Digest and labeled a "New Face of Environmentalism"?
Berman.
With AGW friends like her, I'd really revisit exactly where the oddballs are located and deal with the ones in your own camp. Next, she will be consulting on the damming of the Fraser River.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
The company you keep
If you want climate change skeptics to be taken seriously, I'd be wary of going down the road of associating the science with the spokespeople.
http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/7339/32/
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
The company you keep Redux
Gordie Campbell
Al Gore
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
BTW
Who is David Icke?
Chris Keam
2 years ago
"The company you keep
"The company you keep Redux
Gordie Campbell
Al Gore"
Exactly. See how we can play this game forever? Or, we can make our assessments of climate change based upon science.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
Chris, you were the one to link the David Icke guy, not me.
And based on these links, I get the impression that the whole cadre of Climate Change Deniers are some kind of Zionist-Illuminati-Masonic Plot to de-populate the world via climactic catastrophes and take over those of us that are left by virtue of their superior intellect and networking.
Well, I am not convinced of Human-Caused Global Warming and so far, no Zionist, Illuminati, or Mason have invited me to their cause. Believe me, I could use the money and funding.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
"Well, I am not convinced of
"Well, I am not convinced of Human-Caused Global Warming"
I would be fascinated to know the reasons for your skepticism. Is 'because Al Gore says it exists' chief among them?
Urbanismo
2 years ago
Well, I am not convinced . . .
http://notsylvia.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/the-origins-of-the-global . . . now are you?
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
From AGW "convinced" to skeptic
Chris, a few years back I was quite convinced that we were on a human-driven path of global warming. I, like most people believed the messages delivered by the IPCC and the like.
Then I started to hear the mantra of "the science is settled", "a consensus of scientists". That is when the first red flag went up because I know firsthand that science does not work this way.
Then, I started to hear skeptics being disparaged by being called "deniers", "flat-earthers" and the like. As any schoolyard kid knows, once you start calling people names, you have lost the argument.
So, I wondered why AGW believers were so defensive, derisive of non-believers, and why they did not want me, or people like me, to look at alternative data or opinions by labeling us "deniers" and the like.
So, like any other human being, if you don't want me to examine something closer, then don't tell me not to look at it because I am curious of what you want to hide.
And looked at it I did. Every source possible. My distillation of the data brought me to the point of changing my original position and now being firmly convinced that human activity has no significant impact on climate. I became even more convinced when the Hadley Met Centre "lost all their data". That is, all the original data in which so much of the global warming trend is being predicated on. This loss of data is the scientific equivalent of "my dog ate my homework". B.S. me once folks, but I ain't gonna fall for it again.
As for Al Gore. He is just a grifter.
At any rate, the subject is great fun. It is like WWE Wrestling. You are the good guy or the "face", and I am the bad guy or the "heel". We get to cut promos and write smack back and forth. This is much more entertaining than discussing Mike Harcourt, for example.
G West
2 years ago
Dr Alexander
I've actually done the same thing you did - and while we agree on Al Gore - as I've mentioned before - I came to the opposite conclusion.
On the basis of the science and not the politics - which is I why I shun pretenders like Gore and Gordon Campbell - not to mention Pee Wee.
Cheers.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
10 seconds of Googling on the Hadley issue
Now CEI is trying to go after the UK temperature record because the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia, used by the Hadley/Met Office, has abandoned some bad data. Climate Science Watch (CSW) has the background, “CEI global warming denialists try another gambit seeking to derail EPA endangerment finding.“ Ironically, as Prof. Phil Jones, CRU’s Director explains below:
Almost all the data we have in the CRU archive is exactly the same as in the Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN) archive used by the NOAA National Climatic Data Center [see here and here]. The original raw data are not “lost.”
A small amount of data, which could be easily reconstructed if one wanted to waste a lot of time, was abandoned for reasons such as the following:
Station series for sites that in the 1980s we deemed then to be affected by either urban biases or by numerous site moves, that were either not correctable or not worth doing as there were other series in the region.
Yes, for years the deniers have been claiming that the temperature record is corrupted by the urban heat island effect or bad locations. In fact, we know that it isn’t (see Must-read NOAA paper smacks down the deniers: Q: “Is there any question that surface temperatures in the United States have been rising rapidly during the last 50 years?” A: “None at all.”) But when CRU actually tries to abandon such data, the deniers cry foul.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Oh Doctor
Can I summarize your objections to AGW as I interpret them?
1) Most of the world's scientists agree it's happening
2) Mean people mocked those who held beliefs that have been repeatedly disproven
3) Somebody lost some data
"My distillation of the data brought me to the point of changing my original position and now being firmly convinced that human activity has no significant impact on climate."
But if you're firmly convinced, shouldn't you now oppose yourself? After all, certainty demands skepticism by your measure? Unless... you believe yourself to be infallible?
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
I don't consider myself to be infallible...
.... just infused with a healthy dose of Common Sense.
"Certainty demands skepticism"
Indeed Chris. Especially when what you see with your own eyes does not jive with the "official party line".
It is also easier to be certain within oneself when you reach this point of certainty due to your own efforts, observations, and distillation of data as opposed to pre-packaged Madison Avenue-massaged crap.
Besides Chris, I am a Canadian. I have that same measure of self-doubt that Canadians are world-recognized for. Therefore I will always visit and revisit the Global Warming argument. It is not a religion for me.
And back to the most salient point. The subject makes for a great Smackdown!
Lighten Up Gang!
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
G West
You are much too mellow to be on anyones AGW Smackdown team.
So, I nominate you to be the referee.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
With regards to Hadley
Loss or destruction of original data is a cardinal sin in science. It does not matter what the data does or does not portend to support or to underpin insofar as what the data shows when analyzed.
Thus, any loss of data must always be examined in the harshest of terms. Especially in this day and age when a number of "high profile" scientists have been shown to have falsified or knowingly mis-analyzed their original data.
Basically, some people asked Hadley for the original data, and Hadley says No. The same people then get sufficient resources to compel Hadley to hand over the data and Hadley then says it has lost the data.
Well, there is lipstick on that collar.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
Hadley Part 2.
Reconstructed data is not original data.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
requoted for clarity
"Almost all the data we have in the CRU archive is exactly the same as in the Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN) archive used by the NOAA National Climatic Data Center [see here and here]. The original raw data are not “lost.”"
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Common sense
"I don't consider myself to be infallible...
.... just infused with a healthy dose of Common Sense."
And your common sense tells you that a vast majority of climate experts, nearly every national government, the U.N. and various corporations and private companies are working to slow the growth of the economy and reshape the status quo because they are all having the wool pulled over their eyes by either a massive error or giant conspiracy that is successfully being covered up in a day and age when even the RCMP cannot suppress a conversation between its members on the way to answer a disturbance at YVR, and every political subterfuge in recent memory has been exposed by Throats of varying Deepness?
That strikes you as the explanation? If not please correct my characterization.
Jerry Munro
2 years ago
mellow fellow... :-)
"G West
You are much too mellow to be on anyones AGW Smackdown team." wrote Dr. Alexander.
lol. Okay. You get just that one point. :-) Now, hand in your paper, and go stand with your face in the corner at the back of the room.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
Chris Keam My Common Sense is not your common sense
Your characterization is your characterization and you are welcome to it.
However, it is not my characterization, to say the least, and where and how I got to my personal assessment I have describe to the extent that I want to describe it. The rest is a combination of: non of your business/too busy to spend time on it/can't be arsed to bother.
Sometimes folks just operate at a level of life's experiences influencing how they determine what they determine.
Sometimes, it is just that simple. Just because somebody does not see your point of view doesn't mean my point of view has to woven into a tapestry of conspiracy theories/corporate payoffs/wishful thinking/iconoclastic thinking/just being an a--hole.
It is what it is.
Good Smackdown though.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
Now Chris, If you want a Conspiracy Theory
Explain the underreporting of the Goldstone Report.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Conspiracy theories
I don't want a conspiracy theory, nor am I being an asshole, by wondering how you can invoke science (and your understanding of how it works) at every turn and then apparently ignore the evidence in favour of some amorphous entity called 'common sense.'
This:
"Sometimes folks just operate at a level of life's experiences influencing how they determine what they determine."
is so far removed from a scientific approach that it's approaching the kind of everybody's right, nobody's wrong Oprah-esque mumbo-jumbo that makes a mockery of science. Based on what you say about yourself, it doesn't seem like your metier. I'm genuinely curious as to the process that led you to your opinion.
The Goldstone Report has exactly zero to do with the scientific method, climate change, Mike Harcourt or urban densification. Not sure why you bring it up.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
"Good Heavens Miss Sakamoto... You're Beautiful!"
My apologies to Thomas Dolby, but to live life in purely scientific terms is not only impossible, it takes away the very nature of our humanity. It is also boring as Miss Sakamoto would exhibit facial symmetry as opposed to being beautiful.
Chris, how I go about making up my mind about things is my business. If you want a real challenge about that sort of thing, then go to a place like RONA and ask someone who is trying to decide what colour they want to paint their house. Better yet, ask their spouse if they have figured it out.
The Goldstone Report has everything to do with the topic. You brought up the idea of Conspiracy Theories and how such things are not possible, as it relates to AGW theories at any rate.
I make the point that interested parties can operate in collusion if they feel threatened or stand to benefit.
If this is such an impossibility, then do tell me how a damning report, complete with war crime descriptions, is not getting any press. I say Conspiracy Theory. You prove me wrong. And if you can't prove me wrong, then conspiracies do exist. In personal, corporate, political and scientific realms.
By the way, you are putting in a lot of effort and doing a brave job on giving AGW-skeptics like me a rough time.
Going after "those guys" is a different thing altogether.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
Google News search "goldstone report"
"If this is such an impossibility, then do tell me how a damning report, complete with war crime descriptions, is not getting any press. I say Conspiracy Theory. You prove me wrong."
Google News
Results 1 – 10 of about 5,755 for goldstone report. (0.29 seconds)
http://news.google.ca/news?q=goldstone%20report&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn
OilbertaRedTory
2 years ago
Dr Sidestep ...
does the shuffle :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mNDHTfdn1A
When a clear answer to clear questions would reveal intellectual bankruptcy and bald-faced lies.
Need a Doctorate ?
http://www.mail-order-degrees.com/
Frank
2 years ago
Global warming
Doesn't matter. And I say that as someone that believes in it.
Humanity has far bigger problems to deal with and chances are those other problems will bury us long before polar bears are gone.
What's even scarier than global warming is the possibility of people like Tzeporah Berman riding that issue and thus becoming societal leaders.
Dr Alexander
2 years ago
Google News and Frank
Search "Balloon Boy" on Google News and get 15,220 hits.
One is a probable hoax, the other a UN Investigation. You tell me what matters more in the grand scheme of things.
Still operating in the "Grand Scheme of Things" Frank is Bang-On! It really does not matter what Chris thinks, and it does not matter what I think.
The biggest issue is to keep faux-environmentalists like Berman from grabbing the reins of power or influence. Chris, I suggest you spend your valuable time on her and those of her ilk.
Thread-wise, this horse is well and truly dead and flogged. So, I'll bid my leave on this thread by saying two things.
Chris, it is clear that you are committed in your point of view and you spend a lot of time doing your homework in this and other things. In fact, in many respects your arguments are superior to some of mine. At any rate, you are better suited than Tzeporah Berman to do whatever she does.
OilbertaRedTory, you are the champion of digging up youtubes related to any thread. Keep up the good work.
monty
2 years ago
Mike Harcourt
rapidly moved from the left to the far right. Just how many different organizations is he receivng money from based on his long lost reputation as a citizen concerned about ALL the people. Let's see: an appointment at UBC, the Treaty Commission, and who knows what else? And now a GREEN MAN.
I attended a Vancouver Budget proposal meeting at Kerridale Community Centre this week. And there was GREEN MAN, Councillor Louie, fully prepared and attempting to manipulate the entire discussion.To paraphrase: " Now I've made my presentation so now we will write on little pieces of paper and put them up here on all these display boards, boys and girls."Tough Luck, Louie. The seniors did not buy your appraoch. Informed Louie that all those with ideas should share them with everyone first. Louise stood stunned. Persons spoke out: gave great ideas...Louie stood speechless. Enough of this deliberate MANIPULATION at Public meetings.
Deal with homeless--more shelters. As Independent MLA Vicki Huntington wrote in the Delta Optimist in response from another ill-informed person at the Fraser Institute:
"Better they had examined the effect of money laundering on the cost of housing. "ORGANIZED CRIME IN BC IS POURING MONEY INTO BC REAL ESTATE AND PRICE DOESN'T MATTER. WHY DIDN'T THEY LOOK AT THAT?"
(Delta Optimist, Nov. 24/09 page A05)
A far better assignment for Mr. Harcourt and those of his ilk.
Okanagan Orchardist
2 years ago
Commentators
Why are there so many long-winded negative commentators to the Tyee? Couldn't you just say what you have to say in one short paragraph and then f*** off? Nobody reads past the first few lines, so why write a book? We could start an "agree", "disagree" or "I don't know" after each topic and that would be it.
Chris Keam
2 years ago
disagree! LOL
disagree!
LOL
soleprobe
2 years ago
"Nobody reads past the first few lines...."
Who made you the spokesman for me and every reader on the board? Can you not speak for yourself or are you so insecure that you cannot state an opinion and claim it solely as your own? It is you who never reads “past the first few lines”.
So typical of many these days: self-centered, impatient, insolent, and when they talk they seem to grunt, squawk or chirp as if they have totally lost their ability to use the higher conscience level of the brain and are just using a small area of that tiny portion attached to the brainstem.
ME2
2 years ago
The argument is far, far fom over.
Chris, your insistence that Warmists have the science on your side is deliberately contrived, and easily disproved.
To date, I have at least 5 times challenged Warmists to produce scientifically testable proof that CO2 in the quantities present in our atmosphere can create Global Warming, or even their fallback position, “Global Change”. Their best “evidence” so far is the “Hockey Stick” hypothesis, in which the “blade” represents the last 200 years of warming. However, those 200 years encompass the temperature recovery in the Northern Hemisphere from the Little Ice Age – approx 1350 AD to !850 AD. And it is also logical that the tree-ring data they used came from Russia in the Northern Hemisphere, What else would you expect?
Similarly, re the CO2 evidence they postulate as proof that the warming they cite is / was CO2 driven, is highly arguable, since there is NO way to prove that higher CO2 levels didn’t occur until AFTER GW was underway, and therefore rising CO2 levels can be a result of rather than a cause of GW, and therefore pose no reason for worry.
Furthermore, I’ve not yet heard or seen any scientific proof that the various astronomical reasons currently being posed as reasons for Global Change aren’t valid. For my own part, I’m a big fan of the Milankovich Cycle, which I went to some pains to explain some months ago, and which still works well enough for me.
Finally, as Dr Alexander suggests, the whole debate just reeks of a “Conspiracy” going on somehow – esp when the Warmists feel threatened enough to revert to personal insults. IMO, Urbanismo has offered us a reasonable enough solution which most Warmists aren’t going to like one bit. LOL LOL LOL
http://notsylvia.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/the-origins-of-the-global-warming-scare-2/
As anyone who believes ACO2 is a dire case, requiring immediate addressing, realises, clearly nukes are the ONLY logical answer, as Seth went to some pains to explain on a recent thread.
So have fun with that one Chris, and keep up the good work making the case for the Big Boys. LOL LOL