The Goals of the Gateway

# A $50-million investment in cycling infrastructure - the largest history of the province.

ie, when it's stated above that there nothing to reduce kilometers traveled that may be so but the plan is for increased cycling and transit. Remember a few weeks ago the plan for $14 BILLION in spending? Thats' fourteen thousand million dollars for transit!

As for this, so called, expert, Eric Doherty:

Impressed?

Eric Doherty

Realisticman,

Eric Doherty also holds a Master's degree from the School of Community and Regional Planning at UBC.

[url=http://www.spec.bc.ca/article/article.php?articleID=559]

Tom Barrett

realisticman has more education than Eric Doherty I'm sure, I know for a fact he has a PhD in "Defending everything the BC Libs do" and another in "Changing what I think when Mr Campbell tells me to".

Dead right Canary......

...... this is the first rule of 'rail' transit planning: USE EXISTING RAILWAY INFRASTRUCTURE WHERE POSSIBLE. AVOID 'GREEN-FIELDS' CONSTRUCTION WHERE POSSIBLE.

Frank

Don't sell Eric short. I certainly am not qualified to start up a Gulf Islands Eco-Tourist Pedalo operation but he is.

Eric, MA the Expert

Thank you Tom Barrett for pointing out that Eric has succeeded with his MA. You might want to ask him there's any money left over from his El Salvador friends at the Sierra Club or the Canadian International Development Agency to pay the webmaster at the British Columbia Sustainable Energy Association, which have him listed on their 2008 Board of Directors as merely, "a Masters candidate".

I'll send his bio off to Margaret Wente and Stan Persky (http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/06/23/Wente/) and bounce off them whether or not he is deserving of the 'expert' honorific as pertains to transportation, traffic circulation and transit expertise in a GHG and Co2 questioning world. None of would want to debase such an esteemed moniker, would we?

Logic? Are you kidding?

Frank, the only rules necessary for being a Warmist are : 1/ Follow the leader 2/ Don't ask questions.

A Hundred Bucks!

My partner now wants to go for this;

I love that sneaky bit at the end;

We can just give the money to them!

canary

Maybe we should take a page from history, and christen them Harpermobiles....?

Luke

Luke Skywalker:

So now the truth is biased against the BC Liberals? That must suck for you.

What you've written about the BC government's relationship with the federal government, whether true or not, is irrelevant. What matters is if the BC government has secured the funding from those other parties. As I said in my last post, neither the federal government nor Translink were involved in the planning. They were not even consulted. And to the best of my knowledge, the federal government has not committed any funds. The BC government did not even bother to ensure it had the funding before it made the announcement. Who's spinning now?

Luke Skywalker: Quote:Just

Luke Skywalker:

Either twin the Port Mann or igonore the problem? This is a false dichotomy. More transit and better land use is a third option.

Red herring. Whether or not this is true (I'm skeptical and you've provided no source), the issue is not car ownership, it's energy use and GHG emissions. According to Translink:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=eeb1f09e-1e0a-433e-83b8-2d5a67830fb5&k=24590

Do you think that's the case in Langley?

Hypocrisy anyone? Twinning the Port Mann will allow people to drive more cheaply. Which is the point of the article.

Ohhhh Jimmy...

Oh come on... lol ... You've inferred and basically stated same on here for many months.

Even a couple of posts above you've made this statement:

What are ya now tryin' to say... that you are now ashamed of your NDP support?

But then again... you are jimmy laroux ;)

realisticman: Thank you for

realisticman:

Thank you for the source.

Yes, to the extent that I was skeptical of the existence of the source. But I remain doubtful of the usefulness of report itself.

Three's Company

I'm leaning strongly towards a triplet Port Mann. Just for pedestrians, bicycles and horses.

Strategic!

Luke Skywalker:

I repeat, you lie. But then again, you are Luke Skywalker;) Par for the course.

I dare you to find a single such "inference or statement" on this or any thread. That I point out that the Liberals' "transit plan" is whistling in the dark means that I am an "acknowledged NDP supporter"? That's pretty stupid, even for you.

I wrote that the BC government had made their funding announcement without securing funding, and that funding would not be forthcoming, and you called that "political spin". In replying to you that the "truth is biased against the Liberals", I was paraphrasing you :)

Ha! Do you still beat your wife?

Luje Skywalker

We have a smokescreen implemented by the current provincial "government"....

Right-wing idiocy

The NDP is "tax and spend"? Typical right-wing drivel.

Please read your history and find out who brought in all the taxes, from income tax to the GST because clearly an education in such history is sorely needed. It wasn't the Left.

The 2.4 cent carbon tax will not reduce the number of cars by 800,000, our environment minister is a liar for saying it would.

The Liberals don't support anything that would actually be good for the environment and therefore anyone who supports the carbon tax on the basis of environmentalism are complete and utter hypocrites playing political games as usual.

Let's wait and see, Frank

"It is very heartening to me to know that in British Columbia there seems to be a real shift in terms of the government's approach to climate change and I applaud the premier for making that shift," said Suzuki, a Vancouver-based scientist who won the United Nations Environment Medal.

***

Transportation accounts for 36 per cent of British Columbia's greenhouse gas emissions. We all need to face up to that fact and do what we can to reduce our emissions. The shift means your gas costs about 1.6 per cent more. Under the law, every penny of revenue from the carbon tax flows directly back to tax reductions for individuals and businesses. When you consider the tax cuts and the $100 climate action dividend, an average family would have to drive thousands of extra kilometers this year to equal the additional dollars in their pockets. On the other hand, if that family can reduce their gas consumption by about one tank a year, then there is no cost at all and every dollar remains in their pockets.

Frank...

Mike Harcourt, Vancouver Sun, September, 1991:

Mike Harcourt, Vancouver Sun, October 2, 1991:

Mike Harcourt, Vancouver Sun November 29, 1991:

Now let's compare Harcourt's statements with the Glen Clark Budget speech several months later on March 22, 1992:

* Effective July 1, 1992, the personal income surtax rate will be
increased, and will become payable at income levels over $60,000 for a
typical single taxpayer.

* Effective January 1, 1992 the genral corporation income tax rate will
increase by one percentage point - from 15 to 16 per cent of taxable income.

* The small business rate will also rise by one percentage point to 10 per cent.

* The corporation capital tax currently paid only by large financial
institutions, will be re-introduced for all corporations with paid-up
capital in excess of $1 million.

* Effective in 1992, the supplemental Home Owner Grant will be removed.

* We are introducing a new levy on legal billings

* We are introducing a number of commodity-specific revenue measures including an increase in the jet fuel tax and higher liquor mark-ups.

... And that was just the beginning of the tax increases that made BC, along with Quebec, one of the most taxed jurisdictions in North America.

And in 2000, BC's Tax Freedom Day?

http://oldfraser.lexi.net/media/media_releases/2001/20010628.html

From today's Vancouver Sun:

Since 2001, over 100 tax cuts have been introduced in British Columbia.

All taxpayers earning over $30,000 a year have had their provincial income taxes reduced by at least 30% - 37%.

Low income taxpayers earning under $20,000 a year have had a 75% tax cut since 2001.

Provincial income taxes were eliminated completely for everyone earning under $15,000 a year. 250,000 more citizens now pay no provincial income taxes at all.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

Luke

Sobering numbers, for sure!

Let's hope that working men and women and families remember these facts when they vote next Spring.

For all taxpayers, particularly those at the low-income levels, the re-election of the Liberals is the only way to maintain a strong economy, keep the unemployment level at the current record-breaking low level - and keep their money in their pockets.

realisticman

You're suddenly a fan of David Suzuki? Here's what Wikipedia says he's said :

So I assume you support finding a way to put Harper and Campbell in jail for not reducing emissions?

You agree with what he said about Canada?

And you no doubt agree with what he said here? Reversing the position you used to hold?

And I assume you also like a guy who doesn't reduce his emissions, he just uses his money to buy "offsets". Kinda like buying indulgences from the church in the days of yore eh?

God knows we wouldn't want to reduce emissions if it meant voiding our warranty. Good for David.

Bizarro world

Income tax was invented and implemented by the Conservatives.

And who invented corporate tax? The Left? Not a chance, we weren't in power. You have to look at your own party for that one.

And who invented small business taxes? Again, not the Left.

And who introduced corporate capital tax? Again, not the Left. It was the Right.

Did the Left invent fuel taxes? Nope, once again you need to do some book-learnin'.

And let's not forget the medicare premiums in BC, the Coquihalla highway tax, the BC ferries tax, the federal fuel excise taxes, the PST, the GST, paying a tax to cross a bridge...

All brought to you by right-wing governments.

Thanks for coming out, always happy to educate the masses.

Carbon footprint

Now, since the two of you have seen Jesus and become tax and spend environmentalists I'm sure your own carbon footprints are smaller than my pet dog's?

Nice to see you have internet out there in the boonies, I don't like living in leaky lean-to's myself but then I'm just not as environmentally concious as you two.

The "Suzuki" pattern

Anyone else notice this? He doesn't actually believe in reducing emissions, just in paying a "guilt" tax.

And he supports everyone else doing the same, keep polluting for god's sake, just pay a "guilt tax" like me.

Too bad taxes on alcohol in Hawaii or wherever it was this new tax was dreamed up, weren't higher, if they were maybe sobriety would have ruled the day.

The Extreme Hypocrisy Party

But at a time when we urgently need to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, emissions from aviation continue to grow. For example, since 1990, CO2 emissions from international aviation have increased 83%. The aviation industry is expanding rapidly in part due to regulatory and taxing policies that do not reflect the true environmental costs of flying. ‘Cheap’ fares may turn out to be costly in terms of climate change.

How do greenhouse gas emissions from flying compare with emissions from other forms of transport, like driving?

Compared to other modes of transport, such as driving or taking the train, travelling by air has a greater climate impact per passenger kilometer, even over longer distances (see graph below). It’s also the mode of freight transport that produces the most emissions.

Geez, that sure sounds bad don't it?

Glad David Suzuki and Gordon Campbell don't fly. Oh, they do, quite a lot in fact. But David pays to have trees planted to make up for it. And Gordon doesn't do anything at all. Coolio.

Liberal apologists

I'd like to see one of the Liberal cheerleaders who frequent this post attempt to explain the Vaughn Palmer piece found in the Sun. Bad news for the Liberals, as usual, of course only released on Fridays - Friday afternoon if they can get away with it. Here's the electronic link:
www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.

And please, try to come up with your excuses on your own; see if you can make a silk purse out of this sow's ear without your taking it to the spin doctor headquarters where you guys get your material and collect your pay.

Libs are mean to Environment

Not only are the Liberals mean on the environment,
they are mean to seniors,
mean to children,
mean to single moms,
mean to poor people,
mean to university students,
mean to people who require public transit,
mean to health care workers,
mean to the economy!

and not mean to their (globe-trotting, polluting) corporate supporters.

They are a joke; and, to make matters worse, we are the butt of the joke.

Frank

You've opened my eyes, Frank. I presume that the next election campaigns will feature provincial and federal NDP platforms extolling the lowering of taxes for individuals and corporations.

Please keep us updated on these important items. I'm sure the elimination or substantial lowering of taxes, coupled with promises to not introduce new ones, will be a winning formula.

realisticman

How do you post so often what with having little to no carbon footprint? Did you plant a tree in return for that post?

As for taxes, your guys invented them all. Nuff said.

Frank

And THAT is the gospel truth, Frank! The rightistas rail about taxes, without giving any thought whatsoever to that little truism you posted.

Good one! (ps -- I just planted a seed for this post)

A Different Reality...

Ahhhhhh... but unlike centrist New Democrats, the left-wing within the BC NDP as well as the federal NDP like to engage in what is called max the tax.

Don't lower the GST, tax the banks (in reality credit unions in BC of which I'm a member), tax the corporations (which will be passed on to consumers in terms of higher prices).

And with the NDP, there would be no Coquihalla, no Port Mann Bridge... and on and on.

Good article, which I also read:

Makes sense... during the last 6 years of the NDP per capita GDP fell below the national average. Still gonna take a while to get that turned around.

No doubt about that based upon the oil sector.

That's why I'm a proponent of offshore oil and gas exploration, for starters.

And a $4 billion pipeline in the north, which posters on here are agin and on and on.

"If the province is to continue to enjoy strong growth in the future, the underlying causes of some of the weaknesses will need to be addressed.

Now do pray tell, please don't tell me that the NDP is gonna change that after the economic mess of the 1990's???

Here is the BC Major Projects Inventory (under construction/planned/residential/commercial/industrial/institutional over $15 million) totalling $152 billion as at March, 2008.

That's up from $124 billion in March 2007 and $101 billion in June, 2006.

In December, 2001 that figure was just $45.7 billion.

http://www.gov.bc.ca/ecdev/attachments/mpi0801.pdf

Sure, lots of need for improvement, but with record low unemployment not seen since the mid 1960's, record government surpluses, and record planned development in all categories... something is also right ... and we're movin' in the right direction.

ITS A GOOD NEWS DAY?

Not just another black cloud day as our premier paints his tail of environment doom but a enviromental haven. And it Looks like everybody wants to join the band wagon. Canada has little to concern herself with and the Conservatives energy tips were more than ample. No concerns here in Canada she's the best on the other hand Afganastan receives failing marks for an environment that is almost destroyed because of Bush's mass destruction on its lands,people and environment. Want to move to Afganstan or just want to go over there and destroy a continent's environment? Just think of it gas prices would almost immediately come down, friends and family would come home, and we would stop destroying our neighbors environment. Oh yes all we would have to say is no to war the one responsible for oil and gas shortages around the world Bush is being questioned by a summit.

ps

I always though it was more about having more cars than having space for but heck I'm just an observer.

I think what you Mean

Sharing is good is their souls are dark and they lack human compassion for the people they govern over babies, tots, teens,men, women, eldely,sick,injured,infirm etc. Have a good day given the weather permits.

And to you Living a different Reality?

Canada is number one. BC has a Carbon Tax on consumers who will be affected at the pump. Toronto does not. Toronto is number one.

a little clarity, please

Mr. Barrett,

Of course anyone even remotely familiar with the issues surrounding the gateway project are familiar with Eric Doherty’s name. Yet failing to identify him as the most prominent and vocal opponent of the project from its conception, rather than merely as a “transportation planner” and “spokesman” is a negligent omission, and does your readers the disservice of lack of journalistic rigour.

Luke Skywalker

You live in a difrerent reality all right!

Wherever did you get your nonsense from?

The NDP inherited the Rightista mess from the Socreds (for one).

And as far as having no Coquihalla, on the contrary, it would have come in on budget, instead of $600 milions over.

As for no Port Mann bridge, aut contraire, it would have been originally built with expansion in mind.

Any other fastasies in your "reality" you would like dispelled?

BS

No wonder you want to increase the gas tax. You're quite the environmentalist.

Just proves how hypocritical your stance is on the increase to the gas tax. You're not at all for lowering emissions.

By the way, is David Suzuki and the Wilderness Committee all for offshore drilling too? Perhaps believing we can offset those emissions by planting trees around Hudson Bay?

Typical right-wing tax and spend. Tax everything from medicare to bridges and then go on a spree shoveling money to the people that bankroll the Liberal party.

For the sake of balance, something I would probably have to provide the definition of, name one thing you thought the Liberals did badly at.

We've also got a record number of old people. Do you Libs take credit for that too?

And as Sharing often points out, record numbers of homelessness, record numbers of child poverty and on and on.

But then you consider those things to be progress.

By the way

Still waiting to hear about how you live in a lean-to in the woods eating only the very highest quality bugs and leaving no carbon footprint.

And since you're probably on a first name basis tell our environment minister he's a liar unless you wanna back up his claim that his carbon tax will take 800,000 cars off the road.

I wonder if the new carbon tax will be like all the other right-wing taxes, a "temporary tax" that will be removed when the problem is gone. Like income tax, the Coquihalla highway, the GST ....

I'm sure there's a smoke-filled room somewhere where the pointy-heads meet to figure out what new taxes they can gouge us with so as to pay for their Canuck season tickets, their high-priced restaurant meals, the lease on their Lexus, and all the other crap that gets written off as a "business expense".

Hollow words, Luke

Luke says about the Liberals:

There are problems within your words and your logic, Luke.

1. low unemployment: Frank has pointed out we have record numbers of old people. That means they have retired, are in need of services, and they left vacancies in their places in the workforce. In other words, the Liberals did not create low unemployment, retiring baby-boomers and market forces did.

2. record surpluses: This is smoke and mirrors, Luke. I can create a surplus in my own budget at home if I budget for things and then don't spend the money. I can budget for a new car and braces for my kid, then not spend the money. It doesn't mean I don't need a new car or that my kid has straight teeth. No magic occurred. It just means I have more money in the bank at the end of the year. This is what the government has done for years with putting money into a pot marked for housing for the poor. The money is earmarked, so the government says it is budgeted, and it is doing as it should, then the money is never spent it. Voila, government surplus. It means that certain Ministries are not doing the work as budgeted (incompetence) or that the money was never released. It means this government makes empty promises and underforecasts its earnings, over and over again.

3. record development in all categories:
More smoke and mirrors. Much of the increased development is because of increased real estate costs. The higher value real estate gets used as collateral and money gets "magically created" by the banks. If the real estate bubble bursts, there are going to be lots of people holding onto worthless paper interest rates will rise, people will be stuck - just like in the US, just like how it was here in the early 80s. Also, the more densely you build, Luke, the harder it is and the more it costs. Building materials and equipment are far more expensive now than they were a few years ago, as is the fuel/energy/labour to do the work. I am not sure that any more in terms of quantity is being built; but even if it is, it is old economic theory that more construction/development is good. I believe it was Lynn who said at the Tyee not long ago, "Uncontrolled growth is cancer." It certainly is not environmentally friendly.

more for Luke

cont.
4. moving in the right direction: Luke, the Liberal government under Campbell was handed a period of unprecidented commodity prices for the materials it has been selling. Copper has been selling for over $4 a pound. Copper mines that were constructed to make profit at $.80 a pound have been rolling in the dough, and the Campbell government reduced their taxes. Forest companies have been leaving. When they have made record profits under Campbell, they were not required to reinvest in new saw mills. The story is the same for nearly all resources that have been ripped from the earth under Campbell. For British Columbians to have a negative balance of trade and 2nd to least exports per capita in Canada (next to Nova Scotia) and no real green initiatives on the go is criminal in my books.

People are poorer, Luke; they get less with their money. And those numbers in the BC government's own stats were for 2007. We know that the tourist receipts are down for 2008 and that exports are also down - especially lumber. Even if the economy picks up for the last half of the year (contrary to all indicators) then we still will be worse off than the horible year that 2007 was. Green infrastructure and plant and equipment are what are needed Luke - not condos! We need creative home-grown companies building things that others want - not a bunch of branch plants and franchised retail outlets. And the prolific marijuana grow-ops are not what I had in mind when I wrote creative home-grown businesses.

Eeer, 'Sharing'

Say what? People have left the workforce and that has meant lower unemployment figures!. Wow, that's some spin!

Let's put it to the sniff test. Go to:
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/lss/labour.asp

Click on the PDF link; (Labour Force Annual Characteristics - BC and Canada [PDF])

Low and behold my friends we see that in 2007 the BC labour force is 2.2663 million. Never been higher! The employment rate is 63.5%, never been higher! The unemployemnt rate is 4.2%, never been lower!

Sorry 'Sharing', you'd better revise that supposition - completely.

***

Also, 'Sharing':

What? A hundred single family houses in a suburban sprawl is better and cheaper than a hundred units in one building? Bounce that off any builder you see, or any environmentalist and I'll bet you won't believe this for long.

***

This is a twist I just can't get my head around;

Are these guys nuts? The forest companies have made record profits, according to "Sharing is Good' but they're leaving. You mean that they don't like making record profits so they're investing elsewhere where they won't have to do that?

Maybe that Home-Grown has been stepped on.

From Cross Country Checkup:

http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/Letters2008/letters080706.html

No one on the program today has mentioned heat pumps -- those low-energy electrical reverse refrigerators which distill warmth from the outdoor air and pump that warmth into your house in winter, and then in summer, turn around and air condition the house.

Many new houses are installing these wonders.

Anyone with an older house which has forced air oil heating can use their existing ductwork to carry the forced air from the heat pump. The cost of the heat pump can be recovered in about 3 years (less time as oil goes up) and after that the savings are several thousand dollars per year.

At the moment the federal government is subsidizing the oil industry, and keeping quiet about heat pumps. A question to the federal and provincial governments: Why not turn this subsidy around, and save all that heating oil that is damaging our world?

This would go much, much further than a few cents carbon tax on gasoline at the pump.

Elizabeth Woodworth
Victoria, British Columbia
----------------------------------------
Subsidizing oil & gas is 'good business', while subsidizing consumers is communism......??

R-man's failed logic

R-man, when you have a retiring workforce, you still need people to do most of the jobs that the retirees held. The retirees are not elligible for EI assistance. The %age of older people that are not considered elligible for the workforce are retiring. Note that many of the highpaying jobs the retiress held are not being replaced in the lumber/pulp and paper industry. Instead we have fast food and coffee shops. And we have lots of people working those low-paying jobs for survival. You will note that the per capita GDP has not been rising and neither has exports. The province has been importing more than it exports. The only way to improve that is to make something other than coffee and donuts. Selling off our resources is merely taking money out of the bank.

Firstly, I consider urban spawl to be densification - but you are right. We have a province that exists outside of the Lower Mainland. When I spoke of building densely, R-man, I'm talking about the tall city structures that have huge wind and soil compaction issues. Those building are more expensive. Huge cranes and concrete pumping systems do not come cheaply. Four-story stick-frame town homes are not what I was referring too. Small apartment buildings in the Interior are not what I was referring too. Obviously, it must be more expensive to build those highrises in the Vancouver; how else can the developers charge $500,000-$900,000 dollars for condos with less than 1000 square feet? Water and sewer mains must be hugely upgraded when you start going vertical in a highly populated seizmic zone.

That is exactly what I mean R-man. Forest companies have been leaving. They have been taking their money and running. They have been high-grading the old-growth and shipping whole logs out of the province - to be milled in China, Mexico and the southern US - not renewing plant and equipment in Canada. Their commitment is to their boards of directors/their stockholders, not their long-term employees nor the place where they have made their profits.

RickW

...& Elizabeth Woodward.

Don't belive everything you hear or read on CBC.

Homeowner grants are available - here:

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/personal/retrofit-homes/retrofit-qualify-grant.cfm?attr=4

Maximum grant is $5,000

I'd say anyone who thinks that the grant/cost ration for anyone hoping to make real changes in their home energy consumption won't even come close to covering the PST on the work needed to qualify for the maximum grant.

As anyone in the construction and development industry knows.

This isn't a subsidy to anyone but salespeople and the renovation clique, it's an insult and a joke.

Almost as bad a joke as the Campbell Tax - just another example of pretending to do something while actually doing nothing.

Unfortunately, such grant programs help the industry - not the consumer....

RickW-GeeWest

http://www.citygreen.ca/energy/other$grants.aspx

PST Exemption
The following list of materials are exempt from provincial sales tax:

1. efficient furnaces, boilers and heat pumps (85% seasonal efficiency or higher)
2. wind-powered generating equipment
3. solar photovoltaic collector panels
4. solar thermal collector panels
5. micro-hydro turbines and generators rated up to 150 kilowatts
6. associated components of these systems

Real Changes here West

PST Exemptions
# Materials and equipment that prevent heat loss.
# Insulation and draft proofing materials.
# Energy Star® heat pumps, boilers and oil-fired furnaces.
# Prescribed solar, wind and micro-hydro power equipment.
# Energy efficient, gas-fired water heaters with an energy factor of 0.80 or greater.
# Energy Star® fridges, freezers and clothes washers.

Go to Schedule an appointment button on home page and fill out form

Or phone: 604-777-7741 or 1-877-787-4328 and say you are looking for an energy advisor for your area.

Step Two

The energy advisor will come into your home and evaluate its energy consumption by looking at your windows, doors, insulation, heating and cooling equipment. The advisor will also give you a package of information on programs and opportunities for cutting household energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions.

For energy evaluations done on or after Feb. 19, 2008, you will pay the energy advisor up to $150. The Efficiency Incentive program will pay the energy advisor for the remaining portion of the cost.

You will receive a refund of up to $150 for the costs you paid to the advisor once you have made energy efficiency upgrades to your home, and you have completed a second energy evaluation.

Step Three

You will receive a report from the energy advisor which includes your home’s energy efficiency rating, and suggested improvements to increase energy efficiency and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

You can choose the improvements you wish to undertake. Homeowners need to complete improvements within 18 months after the first audit.

There are provincial and federal incentives available for qualifying energy efficient equipment in the following categories:

* Heating System: Energy Star gas/propane/oil furnace, ground or water-source heat pump and Energy Star Air-source heat pump

* Ventilation System: certified heat recovery ventilator

* Domestic Hot Water System: specified water heaters, solar hot water systems, drain-water heat recovery systems

* Insulation: attic, exterior wall, basement and basement header, crawl space, air sealing, floors above unheated spaces (under development)

* Windows and Doors: Energy Star doors and windows in applicable climate zones

* Water Conservation: low-flush or dual-flush toilets

Your Efficiency Incentive Program evaluation completed on or after February 19, 2008 will qualify you for all provincial, utility and federal incentives.

Grants Galore

You cab buy a Heat Pump for a thousand bucks.

Heat Pumps Overview

A heat pump can cut your heating costs by up to 60% and provide you with low cost air conditioning in the summer.

JUST ANNOUNCED: The Provincial Government has released the rebate amounts for home improvements under the new LiveSmartBC program. The rebate for an air source heat pump is $1060, or $1420 if it is installed with a furnace athat has a variable speed motor. Add the $400 rebate under the Federal ecoENERGY program, and you have a total rebate of $1460-1820. The LiveSmartBC rebate for an air source heat pump with a variable speed motor is larger than for any other home improvement, which indicates that the government has recognized their huge potential to save energy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. These grants can pay for up to a quarter of the cost of the installation.You can can learn more about the LiveSmartBC grants at
http://www.gov.bc.ca/empr/popt/down/livesmartbc_may14b.pdf.

realisticman

Did you google those stats?

The cost was $450, period.

You can also buy a car for a thousand bucks. Doesn't mean its worth the money.

Our heat pump, new furnace and on-demand hot water was $9,000.

Even though it was $9,000 and even though we are also replacing the windows and doors for another $9,000 it was still not worth it to call in your energy adviser because the little bit you get back wasn't worth it.

Of course, I'm just talking real-world, you have google, so you must be right.

realisticman

Spin? Every right-winger in North America has been talking about it, didn't you get the memo?

People leaving the work-force due to retirement causes jobs to open up. When there isn't a trained warm body to take that person's place people scream "labour shortage". Perhaps you recall hearing the phrase?

Since the person leaving the job no longer counts as unemployed and the person who takes his job now does count as employed its means unemployment has gone down.

Call it "spin" all you want, and I've noted your reaction to hearing about this when you bring "labour shortage" up in the future. Since you apparently don't believe it.

Frank

You can buy one for less than a grand Frank. The point is that when people falsely claim that the BC Liberal government gives subsidies to the energy industry and does not to homeowners, and specifically in the post, subsidies for Heat Pumps, it is absolutely and categorically wrong. A clear mistake that should be called and corrected. That's what I did. Subsidies are available at both the BC (Gordon Campbell Premier) level and at the Federal (Stephen Harper Prime Minister) level. An ignorant or malicious mistake was made, copied form the CBC site, and if had been looked into it would have been found out - or it's repeated like a big fish story and becomes legend, or it's spin.

As for the employment levels they are up, up, up, and unemployment levels are down. I'm not sure whether the news has reached some people but the USA is experiencing some problems in the housing market and this has caused a downturn in the export market for wood products. Naturally, there's some lower employment numbers seen in this sector. Mining employment is up and retail is slightly up. The largest gain over the past 5 years is in management jobs. Tech and Scientific is also up. The oldest boomers that 'Sharing' refers to are just turning 60 and have not yet started to retire from the workforce in any significant numbers. That was spin too.

Don't wrap up the house too much Frank - fresh are is a good thing.

Frank

fresh are as in fresh air

realisticman

The heat pump is outside and the intake for the furnace is outside. I think we're fine.

As for the US housing market, I remember GWest posting about that last year and you saying it wouldn't affect us here. Kinda convenient to say now that it does. Of course I agree that it does but then I also believed last year that it would.

Well, I have a couple of "boomer" relatives who have already retired before reaching age 65.

However, if you think none of the boomers have retired you're disagreeing not so much with Sharing and I but with people that are on the Right, like Phil Hochstein. Me and Sharing after all are not arguing unemployment figures, we're simply repeating what we've heard many on the Right claim themselves as to why there is this thing called a "labour shortage". I don't believe in the labour shortage myself given how many people are unemployed but the Right does. Perhaps there's only a labour shortage among people that are not the right colour?

Not all heat pumps will give you the same results.

We got ours put in last year, I assume these rebates only appeared this spring along with the carbon tax and all the sudden propaganda about fighting emissions?

Because if the subsidies were there I believe the salesmen at the various places we talked to would have made sure to tell us. Which they did, its in their interest to do so if they want to make a sale.

And the savings on $18,000 was only a little bit more than the cost to bring in the energy adviser. No adviser, no subsidy. Seems to me like its the adviser being subsidized.

Frank, you don't believe?

July 7, 2008 - 2 hours ago

OTTAWA — Canadian businesses are sounding the alarm over inflation fears from rising fuel costs while remaining moderately upbeat about future economic prospects, says a new Bank of Canada survey.

But the good news in the quarterly survey of 100 companies was mostly a western phenomenon, with the preponderance of companies in the manufacturing-heavy East seeing slowing conditions ahead.

The bank survey was also surprisingly positive on hiring intentions, which while unchanged from its previous spring poll, still found 44 per cent of the companies planning to hire in the next 12 months, against 11 per cent expecting to downsize.

And in an even bigger vote of confidence, 40 per cent of firms said they plan to spend more on upgrading operations as opposed to only 16 per cent planning to spend less.

The bank report noted that optimism was highest Western Canada, while firms in Central and Eastern Canada are forecasting slowing sales volumes.

"Overall, strong commodity prices and expectations of still-healthy domestic demand are helping offset the negative effects of a weak U.S. economy and a strong Canadian dollar on the sales outlook," the bank said.

Other findings included:

-49 per cent of firms reported difficulties meeting demand, with capacity pressures highest in the West.

-40 per cent said they were experiencing labour shortages, with the West again leading the country.

Believe what?

I assume this is the relevant quote?

Have you seen the unemployment levels on reserves? Seen the numbers of homeless?

That's what I meant about "labour shortage" and saying perhaps the people who need jobs aren't the right colour?

Now, since you have in this post given the impression you believe in a "labour shortage" I assume its simply a matter of the origins of this shortage where you disagree with your fellows on the Right?

Frank

I wouldn't infer any racism into a survey of 100 companies, Frank. Who knows the 'colour', as you unfortunately describe it, of the people in HR at those companies. Likely across the spectrum, so to speak.

I do know that some workers from Latin America were have been brought in to work in construction. Would you categorize them as Indio, Español or anything in particular? I'm sure the employers would not.

I thought we were discussing the phenomenally high employment numbers.

realisticman

Its just a thought. After all we have people claiming there's no one available to work and on the other hand we have huge numbers of people sleeping in parks, many others working for minimum wage and of course staggering unemployment among native Cdns. Only in the latter case would any inference of racism apply.

What I think is important about that situation, and those like it, is why people here weren't employed first. After all, whether one believes in a "labour shortage" or not the fact remains a lot of people here are unemployed.

Actually we were discussing the carbon tax and why the government thinks its a good thing to tax the emissions of Cdns and not those of foreigners using Cdn energy products.

And to regurgitate a previous post I was also asking you and our local Jedi Knight what great personal sacrifices you've been making to save the environment besides a touching willingness to pay more for your gas?

The fact one doesn't pay PST on some of the hardware

The fact some retrofit hardware is PST exempt notwithstanding, there are a lot more costs which aren't, in an major refit/reno. The $5000 grant is peanuts - as anyone familiar with the construction industry knows. Even a small array of solar panels costs in excess of 10G just for hardware - without controls, connections and labour.

Furthermore, we're talking about a federal grant - and bupkiss from the province - other than the $100 Campbell Tax dividend.

It's a joke.
Period.

As for subsidies to extractive industry - perhaps you need to read a little more widely; things such as this:
http://www.dogwoodinitiative.org/newsstories/bc-beckons-oilandgas

R/Man

Elizabeth Woodward was referring to TAKING AWAY the subsidy from O&G and giving it to home owners. I doubt O&G have had to jump through the hoops ordinary citizens are expected to, for the sake a few bucks.

In fact, it would behoove a "green" government, concerned as it keeps telling us, with reducing our carbon footprint, to GIVE home owners the heat pumps....the same way it GIVES O&G their subsidies.

Frank, and Wrong West

Frank I can't believe you haven't heard, as I have, from many employers that they cannot find staff. I've heard it at many levels. Tech companies are giving better incentives to retain staff because they're constantly poached. Every level of the construction industry is either not taking on work or delaying projects. At the retail level more than one retailer has asked me if I know of anyone who needs a job and I know of one restaurant that closed because they couldn't find a chef; and another has closed one day a week due to staff shortages. Trucks all over town have 'We're Hiring' signs painted on them!

***

Mr-West

It's not bupkiss, as you eloquently state, from the BC Government. In fact, it's over $1,000 for a heat pump! Rebates are higher for those in the colder northern regions too. Something we always hear lamented that the government doesn't care about. There are loads of rebates including PST exemptions.

http://www.gov.bc.ca/empr/popt/down/livesmartbc_may14b.pdf

realisticman

Yes I hear the same things. My point is not what you and I hear however, its whether its true or just a perception based on hearsay.

Is it really that hard to find someone to work for a company? I don't think it would be given the number of people I know are unemployed or underemployed. Which is why I put forward the argument that perhaps companies simply find the people that ARE unemployed, undesirable?

Its easy to test this yourself, just run an employment wanted ad and say you're a native person or something and see what responses you get. I think you'll be surprised :-)

Where there's no argument is in certain trades which of course are in high demand. But then I'm not arguing there's no work for journeyman carpenters, I'm arguing that there's no reason to open the gates to immigration and work visas when we have so many people who if they aren't offered a hand up now, never will.

realisticman

10 windows and 1 door for our place was $9,000. According to your website we could now get a $220 rebate back. That's not going to get people replacing their windows.

Our brand new furnace doesn't qualify.

The on-demand hot water isn't listed.

The heat pump says $1,420. I will check into that tomorrow but I assume it wasn't available at the time we got ours installed. It must be a new thing and I doubt its retroactive.

Priced a heat pump lately?

Housing is beyond the reach of middle class earners now - retrofitting with a one G pander from the Province isn't going to make much difference anyway.

Gordo and his developer friends have seen to that.

In my opinion, it's bupkiss.

Unless you're building a subway or a useless road to Whistler, the provincial government couldn't care less.

As I said, it's little more than a sales feature for the industry - just as when the GST came into force, the reduction that Mulroney promised for consumers from the old 12% manufacturer's sales tax never materialized. The difference just went into the pockets of the companies selling the goods.

And that's all Campbell's nonsense is doing now.

No way is any of this doing anything to help the people who really need assistance.

Furthermore, all of these programs involve two paid consultations with certified energy consultants, which can easily eat up more than half of the value of many of the grants under the LiveSmart program.

I wonder why...

...you bother commenting if you're not interested in facts and always go back to the same old saw.

The fact of the matter is that almost everyone lives and works in structures.

I would welcome - and I would consider it a useful contribution to a better social environment - if qualified energy consultants were to become accepted as essential.

The energy lost due to poor insulation, unconsidered structural materials and wasteful appliances existing in perhaps most dwellings and workplaces, would seem to confirm energy consulting as essential in today's world where we seek sustainable practices and energy conservation.

The governments initiative is a good one and we can expect others.

Which century do Canadian transit engineers live in?

I think they are firmly entrenched in the 1950's. Here in Nanaimo, our engineers still think traffic lights are a new idea. They install a new light every time a dog gets run over. There are three traffic roundabouts, hidden away in subdivisions where no one can see them. The traffic lights are actually slowing traffic better than any speed limit, but in the worst energy-innefficient way possible. Meanwhile in Europe, traffic circles have been working for over 50 years. They calm traffic because few find it worthwhile to speed between them and everyone is used to the road etiquette of giving way to traffic on the circle.

Nanaimo has finessed their transit and sewage treatment systems to the Regional District, paralysing both with equal efficiently. It would be difficult to find a worse way to run either. The people who produce the poop have no power to control its disposal.

The Lower Mainland should have had a train from Vancouver to Hope 20 years ago, and Vancouver Island should have had a train from Victoria to Courtenay that actually serves commuters. Instead, we are totally and irrevocably hooked on cars. The electric car is no solution for BC since most of our power is from Hydro and there aren't enough dams as it is. We would need to go to nuclear generation to reduce our CO2 emissions, and that just won't happen.

The reality is that as oil runs out, we will have to choose between coal and nuclear power, if any significant part of the auto market is to be hybrid or electric. We have some very unpleasant choices ahead, and I am glad I won't be around when the time comes. The Fraser River will always be there to be dammed, but as a fisheries biologist, I don't even want to think about that.

There is not a politician in Canada with the guts to do anything but make noises. Most of them have no comprehension of the issues. Instead of a stupid carbon tax, we need alternatives to gasoline. This crisis has been coming since the 1970's. You would think we could figure something out in that time, but apparently not.

Facts for R/Man

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2008/Pollyanna-Creep-Economy1may08.htm

Fish-counter

Canada = Zimbabwe del Norte (but in a "kinder, gentler" way)?

The discussion was about costs and grants

I merely pointed out that your rosy interpretation of the circumstances surrounding a government grant program was incomplete and, in my opinion, inaccurate.

And I managed to do it without a single personal remark.

No doubt the 'qualified energy consultants' who are profiting from the government grants are enjoying the largesse. Perhaps you could look into their ‘qualifications’ – I know I have.

They get paid whether the home owner can afford to comply with their programs in any case. The initiative does form an opportunity for Hydro to create a lot of flashy bumpf - the 60 million dollar budget for the program amounts to less than 15% of what Campbell has just doled out in 100 dollar pander payments.

It has little or nothing to do with a rational approach to adopting sustainable energy practices.

In my view those who are impressed by anything the Campbell government has done in this area are simply unaware of the facts.