Could it be that the BC Rail deal is tainted by fraud? If so, the contract is no contract as a contract or deal that is illegal is no contract at all and BC Rail would revert to its original owner!

So the RCMP listened to a conversation between the Premier and the Finance minister, whats the big deal, what are they afraid of? It seems the premier who has flaunted parlimentary procedure to suit his whims is peeing his pants because the RCMP listened to him - why?

Maybe the son of a bitich will go to jail, as he well deserves!

Don't get your knickers in a twist maestro, behaving like a total incompetent in front of a supreme court judge can have its uses.

At least the dream of these crooks getting their just desserts is ignited by this story. Let's hope that those that deal in bags of drug money are made to feel the full force of the law, as well as those politicians and political parties that accepted the drug money. And maybe after all this BC Rail ownership will revert to its rightful owners... the people of B.C.

As I read the article one thing kept going through my mind. The RCMP screwed up the warrants. If they get thrown out how much evidence will be left. Just a thought.

Hey Alcibiades-G.West. It's a trite lesson but I guess we have to take the bad with the good. The good meaning Tieleman, to balance the Ann Coulterism of that other Straight writer.

Maestro, you claimed I was a flake all the way through the Rothshild thread. Here's some more evidence for you. I was just thinking a couple of days ago that I wished Tieleman would do this story for the Tyee. Precognition, eh!

If the RCMP screwed up - was it by design? Was it from orders from the Federal Liberals? Supposedly the RCMP do not screw up!

Or, were the judges, who would not sign for a warrants Gordon Campbell supporters?

Questions, questions, questions!

Very good thought Gary:

Who knows?

The keystone cops have done it before...

Could it have been done on purpose?

Don't let's reach around and shoot ourselves in the back of our heads, eh.

Consider for a moment that if organized crime does have the upper hand in the legislative precincts ... the best bet would be to mess the case up so badly that it gets thrown out of court ...

... and who to blame? The R.C.M.P., of course, as they can't step up to defend themselves.

Wouldn't it suit the purposes of both the Special Prosecutor and the Defense equally well?

TG

No I didn't claim you were a flake, you may have intepreted that, but regardless, I DON'T consider you to be that at all.

I do enjoy your blogs. I think you are very intelligent, your points on many topics create food for thought, and invite rebuttal nor more no less than any others , we simply disagree at times in our pursuit for truth. (ALSO: I think you alluded to you live in Surrey, but that very fact, if true, has probably doubled the collective IQ average in Surrey LOL).

I also realize you are vigilant in TYEE Blogger quality control and equally diligent in exposing those who have double TYEE indentities. Thanks very much in supporting the reality that I am not G West...and your blogs prove that you and fellow super blogger "N" ,while both being very intelligent, and via that, reciprocally neither of you can possibly be G West either.

In the spirit of Hallowe-en , I think we should all go to G West's digs in West Van ( next to Jimmy Pattison's house ), and go trick or treating dressed up like the BC Provincial Cabinet,also Basi and Virk , maybe even all the Federal Tories,.......doncha think ?

To keep some balance ....Who wants to dress up like Hedy Fry in a KKK outfit with burning crosses...draw straws ??? or Ken Dryden in a Leafs uniform ??? ...

Bet it will end up being THE best fireworks show in town . FYI G West's house has a statue of WAC in the front yard and one of Donald Trump in the foyer.

Why did the first Judge hold back on the issue of a warrant? Parliamentary privilege! sounds and smells frivolous. Could it be this was by design to assist the suspects, in a case of this magnitude all should be suspect, judges included? Just what evidence may have been lost in this course of time to attain the warrant?
The RCMP had no alterative but to seek out another judge in order to attain the warrant.

Seems that in almost every tread here the posters agree on one thing:

There was a time they would hang from the lamp-poles for crimes like that!
How about 3 ****-ups and you are out Gordo?

Interesting stuff Bill. Other papers have actually started reporting the pretrial as well. I still have a bit of a problem with the idea that Collins just happened to be using a staffers cell phone. He has one paid for by us. Maybe Garry was a bit forgetful and had forgotten to plug his in. Oh well The last government guy who got into a bit of a bother with cell phones was Bud Smith who liked to brag about his conquest of women. Some folks picked up his calls and passed them to someone else. Bye bye Bud Smith. Folks in power seem to forget that others might be watching them. I firmly believe these guys are as the law says. "Innocent unless proven otherwise. It's beena long wait for them too. Wonder how they are making ther rent payments, food purchases and all that sort of basic stuff? So we wait to see the outcome.

david tieleman and bill schreck, the most infamous of the clarkian lapdogs,(oh i forgot dix) have been trying to give this story legs for years, but it ain't gonna happen. only disgruntled ndp'ers care, and that's b/c they're grasping at straws. pump it up tyee.

Why was this case Regina vs Basi, Virk, Basi on Friday and Regina vs John Doe on Monday?

Elliott and Keith Baldrey are promoting the idea that the Legislature Raids, the resulting charges, and the pending trials are (shrug, shrug, smirk) nothing ... really, nothing at all (hyuck hyuck) ... and we shouldn't bother our pretty little heads about it.

Not co-incidentally, they are also looking for something or someone else to blame ... if it's not the bad bad NDP (bit of a stretch) then it must be public apathy ... or failing that, it's the bungling police ... for the chaotic way the evidence has been managed ... hoping, as they are, that the Judge will throw the case out.

Pathetic. Harmful. And transparently sycophantic. I'm more than ready to see the case go to trial ... what are you afraid of, Ell. The truth?

Yeah, Mary, I read that Baldrey thing too, which left me shaking my head.

Weirdly, to Elliot and Baldry this is NOT an important story.

What did the RCMP hear, when Campbell was on the line? It seems that this story has legs. Elliot, when the media hounded clark, you peed your pants with delight, well the shoe is on the other foot, only it's not a hunting knife for a porch, it's $billion$ railway sales!

Campbell is in trouble all the time even with his wife with his drinking on some Island in the USA!!
We should get Bill Clinton to run this province " I did not have sex with that girl" but Tye Domi did.....

BC Mary sez maybe the blame for the Leg Stink could be laid at the feet of the Horsemen :

...

I think the Mounties are preoccupied fingering "enemy combatants" for the Bush Crime Family (See Mehar Arar and others.) Maybe Republican taxpayers in Amerika would be willing to pay the RCMP's wages and other overhead, it's not like they are working for us.

Let's send the Campbell Crime family, Basi, Basi and Virk to somewhere like Syria, you know, so we can get some "real" information. What's a little water-boarding between friends anyway?

Check out the new Water Board ride, coming next summer at a Water Park near you.

Keith Baldrey is a Global shill, paid for by CanWest!
Elliott is just a loony!
BC Mary I've been following your site about the B.C. Legislature Raids since day one and all of your legwork and phone calls but you made a past all the roadblocks put in your way!
I'm happy to say this is your day!
I'd like to see a lot of heads roll into our clubFed jails.
Starting with our drunken Gordon Campbell as it was his watch and two of his main ministers the minister transportation and the minister of finance both resigned! Did they get a huge golden handshake?
I'm not sure either Virk or Basi got a $54,000.00 severance package I hope he didn't end up with pension paid for by US THE TAXPAYER?
We can then rescind all of his giveaways of OUR BRITISH COLUMBIANS TAXPAYER BOUGHT AND PAID FOR PUBLIC UTILITIES!

G West

Quote;

" Don't get your knickers in a twist maestro, behaving like a complete incompetent in front of a Supreme court judge can have its uses " .

Agreed:

......But don't be selfish and hold ALL your trade secrets.

Now, for the record , can you puhleeze cite the precedent -setting Supreme Court case of " G West vs Regina " ( N.B. not the city ), and how you plea- bargained your parking ticket down based on some neo-con conspiracy / human -rights issue ?

Good on ya for succeeding, or was fool/= client privilege enacted to maintain condfidentiality/ secrecy?

Happy Hallowe-en

I was thinking of a special prosecutor who has had years to prepare this case and who then goes into court and lets the defence make him look like he's a law student dealing with his first year moot.

Isn't that a bit strange, even for Hallowe'en?

I shudder to think of the costs, already, that have accrued in assembling these 85,000 pages. I'm reminded of the paper blizzard referred to in the movie, Class Action - designed to frustrate the legal process.

Keith Baldry just said that one of the lead investigators on the case bought a house from Dave Basi. My question is, does it have a deck, if so, who built it?

Keith's word about the Leg Raid case today is WEIRD. So in Keith's universe the whole affair has moved up a step from being of no importance to WEIRD!

All this horse pucky about the RCMP intercepting a conversation between drunken Soup Guy and the ferret is beside the point. They are the government. The only reason they are there is to serve us. We are probably paying for that phone. The government's business (OUR BUSINESS) is our business. If they are scheming to steal the assets of the people, we should know about it and do something about it.

Dave Basi and Bob Virk are charged with influence peddling. If I pay Mr. Basi to influence government policy, I don't expect him to actually determine that policy. I would be paying him for his contacts among his bosses (read ferret). Basi had little influence himself, but all kinds of access to them who did.

The question should be not why did the RCMP be less than forthcoming for the third warrant to intercept Basi's phone. It should be "why did the previous two judges deny the requests?" If the politicians are abusing the public trust and/or committing crimes, they shouldn't be allowed to hide behind some lofty idea like privilege.

If the public is expected to respect the Legislature, so should the people who work there.

rkewen, if it had a deck it would be great news Global TV and CanWest rags for weeks on end!
Now xNDP Premier Glenn Clark is the CEO of Jim Pattison's Save on Foods
"Go Figure"?
Glenn Clark Last seen a couple years back on Jim Pattison's yacht with Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.?
WE "The People" are just a commodity to the Corporation's.

rkewen your comments 22 minutes ago are right on! WE are the people and our democratic rights have been totally abused.
This idea of "Privilege" is nothing but a shield to protect the guilty parties who are in power which we gave them and we should be able to take this away from them also!
Out of three million people in B.C. I'd like to know how many are satisfied with the job the B.C. Fibrals are not doing "FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE"
Not for greedy corporations!
I'm boycotting Future Shop Because They have a full-page ad in CanWest's non news rags.

I too was amused by Canwest's legislative reporter's rather pathetic stumbling attempt at deciphering the current legal labyrinth around this issue, and leaving the impression that the Queen's cowboys have tripped over their sabres again. Sounds much like the Air India bombing fiasco, no?

Let us hope, alive, when your turn comes there are defence lawyers and juries.

Your turn might not be that far away.

I want to point out to posters on this story that it is ridiculous to attack reporters like Global TV's Keith Baldrey who are actually covering this case for the biggest media outlet in BC!

Baldrey reported today with new information, reported Monday and again last week.

He was in BC Supreme Court all day Monday for the defence disclosure application. So were his fellow CanWest Global journalists Vaughn Palmer and Miro Cernetig from the Vancouver Sun.

But I have yet to see a CBC Radio or TV reporter show up there or a single CBC news item on the BC Legislature raids since the hearings started, for example.

Baldrey has also reported for the NOW papers on this case recently.

I don't always agree with his or other reporters take on this story but shooting at people who are at least covering it instead of ignoring it is foolish.

Thanks for reading my piece here on the Tyee - regards - Bill Tieleman

Bill Tieleman
Bill, you are absolutely right about CBC dropping the ball. I think they've been out trick-or-treating all month. Perhaps they've had interns assigning the stories.

Pathetic.

Baldry, who ought to be asking himself some questions about where he's been on this story for months finally seems to have stepped up to the plate.

From what I've read though, only BC Mary has talked about the bait and switch that went on between Friday and Monday.

Namely, from Basi,Virk,Basi vs the crown to John Doe.

If that wasn't an attempt to mislead the public, what was it ?

I hope you won't fade away now - stay on the case.

And someone ought to start looking at the similarities between this case and how the Campbell government has been doing the public's business in certain other areas of big transfers of common property and assets.

The opposition sure isn't.

G West:

I'll grant you that in the spirit of objectivity re: the prosecution vs the defence at times,....but then again the system is structured to place the onus on them, the prosecution , to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

However, unlike the U.S. justice system's "double jeopardy" provisions, our system allows for appeals by both the defence and the prosecution. Regardless of the outcome, this case will likely drag out in appeals by the losing side for years.

The prosecution " may " lose the opening round ,(like a rookie LLB as you say), but certainly has the opportunity to re-load and appeal, which is the way the system seems to be designed, whether that be good, bad or indifferent.

This is simply the opening round of a l-o-n-g " innocent -till -proven -guilty- beyond -a -reasonable -doubt " process.

One benefit, hopefully, is that proper and sufficient mechanisms are in place to prevent any similar future problems from occurring or even getting started.

Finally, while we all have our " Hang Em High " moods at times re pet issues, I think some TYEE bloggers should calm down, chill a bit , and quit foaming up a mob mentality, as some of this is sounding like Europe in the 1930's or the Middle East in modern times.

Also, Remember what Niemoller once said....and when your own day in court may come...

maestro,
so what do you think of the john doe business. The court clerk confirmed the case was Basi,Basi and Virk on Friday - it becomes John Doe on Monday.

What part of free and open does that serve?

[When the Chief Justice rebukes the Attorney General for comments which are "Unfounded and misleading" ... and for making "A deliberate attempt to demean the judges" ... What's going on here? - BC Mary.]
It seems that gordo and his crime lords have a friend on high. Opal is shilling for his lib buddies. This case is more to do with the integrity of our systems, and bringing ALL the guilty to justice. With his continual babble, trying to deflect the heat from gordo and gang, is not only shocking, but shows what opal is all about. Sir, let justice prevail, no more inuendos, no more stretching the truth, and no more dirrect or indirect tampering. This particuliar case wil show the depth of government, as well as gang related connections.

maestro,

There are?

Not at all. Its simply that this is another instance of the media not doing to the Liberals what they did to the NDP. Glen Clark got some hands-on help with a deck from a neighbour. The media put the police entering his home on the evening news and it was all over the radio, tv and print for months. Day in, day out, you couldn't get away from it. Did you complain then?

We then saw what happened when Campbell got caught in Hawaii for driving drunk. He was actually guilty, unlike Clark, and yet, unlike Clark, he didn't have to resign. His apologists at the time said it was a personal matter as if it doesn't matter what laws our premiers break on their own time. The Leg Raid however, is concerned with gov't business and still the media and Liberal apologists have not been bothered about it to any extent, certainly not as much as they were over Clark's deck.

Its simply that the hypocrisy of it gets to some of us citizens.

Every citizen will have to face up to his/her misdeeds, sooner or later.
The difference lies in how justice is meted out.
In the USA one poor soul is now behind bars for life, for stealing a slice of Pizza! (3 strikes and you are out)
My comment is that our leaders should face that kind of justice too!
Let us allow them 3 strikes (3 fockups)and then incarcerate them!
What is happening here, is a crime that is of unusual proportions!
They are stealing our assets and handing them to friends.
The dictators of the past were indeed hung from lamppoles. Perhaps that scared others from following in their footsteps?
As we have it here, it takes years for them to get a slap on the wrist, or for the judges to blame the RCMP for trying to investigate!
Sorry WM, my conscience is clear, maybe you should worry about yours?

"We then saw what happened when Campbell got caught in Hawaii for driving drunk. He was actually guilty, unlike Clark, and yet, unlike Clark, he didn't have to resign. His apologists at the time said it was a personal matter as if it doesn't matter what laws our premiers break on their own time. The Leg Raid however, is concerned with gov't business and still the media and Liberal apologists have not been bothered about it to any extent, certainly not as much as they were over Clark's deck."

Local as well as national media are covering gordo and his friends. Just as a thought, ask fred Latrimoule what really happened while gordo was on holidays. Might answer a lot, and make us realize how sad the gordo is.

Kam Lee:

I will take your cue and borrow a bit of your thunder .....but without getting into a Gordo cocktail party at Fred and Kathys' detached U.S. state digs.

While its a bit of a HUGE stretch to claim any/all politicians should be our moral/ethical authority, they do have an obligation to lead by example, that hasn't changed in theory,... but unfortunately in reality it has.

It appears much of the political goings- on in modern society make the National Enquirer look far more intellectual than it is .

Where once the honourable thing to do was to step down while an investigation went on for political impropriety or perhaps even resign...the politicos have this " What? Me Worry? " deer -in- headlights ignorance- meets- bravado that continually sets a new moral/ethical precedent for all current and future politicos.

They are ALL, I repeat ALL guilty of it, and the sad thing is that one party can set the relativity -meets -resistance tone for all others in politics, like an ever- changing moral/ethical benchmark "immunization " process.

Again, they are ALL guilty of it...it deflects from the important issues many of us can actually agree on .., this tunes many out...same old same old... and society ultimately suffers for it.

G West:

Re John Doe

Question: Clarification--- what's this in regards to..ie keeping the identities in -camera/non disclosure /confidentiality ?

The courts do have this John Doe anonymity "lee- way" , do they not , if they determine to do otherwise would compromise a fair trial.

B.S. This is a public story; these liberal insiders (and god knows who else) were using their position for personal gain and to sell influence.

The media have been blushing violets on this file and the actions of the court just made it easier for them to sit on their hands a little longer.

YOu just haven't been paying attention.

The proceedings of the supreme court in this matter are OPEN to the public. PERIOD. Bait and switch is illegal in the commercial field; the reciprocal is immoral in the judicial field.

Frank:

Subletting some of your thunder;

If I am not mistaken,..... did not the last NDP administration adjust the legislation so that Public Officials deemed (aka a very subjective term) " doing the public's business " should have their legal fees paid by Gov't , and if found guilty would be be required to pay back the Gov't? ....sort of a double -dipping of (i)one day they are the "Trust us" Gov't who lords over us...but then when its convenient , they (ii) wear the hat of the servant aka "employee of the Gov't" ie (now Gov't is US the general public...and we are responsible for the employees ( elected Gov't officials etc.) actions and thus obligated to foot the legal bill ....a nice CATCH 22 if you can get it...

Of course, Clark was fully prepared to re-imburse the public ie likely declare bankruptcy..oh yeah also mention an extended family member of mine who worked with his spouse , a teacher, who was on "paid stress leave " from this "stressful" family situation to keep Glen out of the albeit Unionized crowbar hotel.

Did we ever get the legal bill from that drooling top -dog Lawyer..... oh yeah solicitor - client privelege..huh...?? oh yeah...it wasn't Glen's money, but he worked for us ,.....yet his party drafted this legislation...conflict or usual BS ???

That kind of BS creates bravado for ALL their political peers...versus the no YOU , the politician on trial, pay your own legal fees first, we will re-imburse you IF you win the case...that would be a far better "Sword of Damocles" to keep them all honest.

At least Vander Zalm had the decency to pay his own $500,000 + legal bill re: the Faye Leung case...

One day when the opportunity presents itself I will divulge a story of Mini Barrett " Glennochio",the uber " What Me Worry " version north of the 49 th parallel who once worked for an extended family member...the old fox in the henhouse story...

Advice: keep your anecdotes less of a rebuttal target with a huge B.ullS.-eye on it.

Could we roll back the clock to the Zalm's time and look at that case again?

Seems to me the facts are highly distinguishable.

The main point here is violation of the public trust, wise not to forget that.

So far, the only cabinet minister in BC who ever served time in jail for things he did as a cabinet minster was Robert Summers, remember?

And he was, wait for it, a SOCRED!

G West:

I really hate to resort to this (and " stoop this low") , but can ya provide me a " Link " to that of which you refer to ...ie " John Doe " issue ?

PS Thanks comrade

RE: politicians footing the bill for legal representation

All that would do would be to freeze out anyone who wasn't wealthy from running for office, because they wouldn't be able to afford the legal representation required to defend themselves from (sometimes) spurious charges.

Seeing how oligarchy has served the U.S. so well by installing a nincoompoop in top office, I'll take our flawed democracy over rule by the rich thanx.

maestro, you didn't respond to my post. You're worried that if we let people govern us that can't afford to pay their own lawyers we're asking for trouble. I think that has nothing to do with what I said. If you hadn't said "Frank," at the top of your post I wouldn't care but since you did, my post was about the media's different reaction to events which seems to correspond directly to which party they donate money to.

maestro the magnificent kinda sums himself up with this definitive statement/question/request.

In other words to maestro the facts are not only irrelevant but somehow disgraceful (ie "stoop this low").

In order to access the court lists you go to:
https://webapps.ag.gov.bc.ca/cso/courtLists.do

However the gov (of BC) runs an incredibly clunky website and sometimes for them putting information on line is just another way to hide information.

Anyway once you get to the link above then go to the selection box labeled:
Supreme Chamber List

select Vancouver Law Courts

Note however this from their instructions>

I have a downloaded copy of Monday's list, complete with its collection of John Doe and John Does. Yesterday's list had no mention of Doe or Basi or Virk. Today's list is not available, or I haven't been able to see or download it.

I could mail a copy of Monday's list to anyone interested or may post it online. It is in PDF format and only about 20KB.

maestro:
It's all up on BCMary's Blog - she done a far better job of keeping this issue alive than Vaughn Palmer, Keith Baldry and the rest of the Victoria press corps, you can find it here:
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

Rkewen

Hey how's it going , aka the TYEE Greek god / patron saint of objectivity.

PS say hi to Ken Lay...has he advised ya to cash in your Enron options yet ?

Remember, Dave Stupich of the Caribbean aka Fidel Castro, ain't looking good, successor resumes will be requested soon, hopefully no nepotism.

Good on ya....Nice to see ya haven't changed, or this site would have a lot less piss and vinegar

Frank....not ignoring ya, long meeting stretched into a longer meeting.

However, I don't see a disconnect(a double negative) with what I posted...if the playing field is not level...nor the past that shapes it is not acknowledged...it becomes a disjointed discussion. I didn't originally mention Clark...you brought it up....and maybe it actually was objectively constructive you did....so I simply rebutted it in the big picture.

A good Captain runs a clean ship and states to the subordinates the marching orders. After that its " it happened or didn't happen under THEIR, the Captain's watch ".

If Gordo's subordinates and sub- subordinates screwed up and abused their authority and privelege(ie not their right)....fine... walk the plank..who's going to argue???? Start the purge even if it goes all the way to the top(are you sitting down G West???).

I do get a bit jaded by the legal system when the given charge/s are laid after the prosecution is given enough evidence which it deems sufficient enough to proceed to trial with a high likelihood of conviction...yet is not successful in the prosecution . Is this simply for show...doomed to fail, yet pursued regardless for the " look " of justice to be done ?

Old bromide = The Captain should go down with the ship, that keeps everyone honest, from top to bottom , but it appears that unfortunately there is an unholy alliance amongst all in the political system that that "old bromide" has instead walked the plank.

Much of this (politics) is like pro wrestling...more of an alliance amongst the supposed combatants who take turns claiming the top prize.

The whole damn system is corrupt across the board...and those that claim one side is doin all the sinnin' is clearly not seeing the big picture, and shouldn't really be on TYEE jury duty.

Stump:

Sorry, but the Public being obligated to foot the legal bill as a "given" ACE in the political insurance deck at the start of the political game allows for all sorts of the "wrong" types to enter politics with a "get out of jail free" card.

Based on this,...anyone additionally dubious can easily create a master plan situation to foster numerous agendas with a high return /low risk. Let's reduce the temptation by simply removing even the remote possibility = 0 $'s.

No one, not even a NON NDP politician relishes cutting big PERSONAL cheques to fund PERSONAL legal defences, that is it's own PERSONAL check and balance.

If Glennochio is that stupid to get involved in the endeavour he did that ultimately lead to his downfall, he lacks the "street smarts" and " all other smarts" to be a good effective leader and look out for the entire BC public's best interests. This leads to the other valid question what else did they do we never knew/heard of ???

I doubt even the NON NDP politician, on average could have afforded the Lawyer Glennochio had..it was a blank cheque from the "infinite" public purse..., was it not???..and not for a rookie LLB.

Talk about seriously skewed.

-------------------------------------

G West:

You are correct, it is a violation of the public trust, which is my point, but applicable to ALL in public office, Zalm or Clark or....

However, NDP should simply quit reading MAD magazine "What? Me Worry ?" defence....or quit watching Hogan's Heroes and impersonating Shultz aka "I KNOW NOTHING" defence.

We, the majority of BC voters, know they(NDP) know nothing, but don't say that to the Judge...they have to remember they are under oath.

You should also read Vaughn Palmer in the Sun today.

After the BC Rail sale, according to Palmer, the horsemen weren't just looking at the BASI boys. According to Vaughn, they had the then finance minister and current CEO of Harmony Airlines under surveillance while he was dining out at a fancy restaurant with the big cheese from omni trax.

Now why wasn't that the kind of thing the Police would leak to the press? What an opportunity for a missed Glen Clark moment.

Who do you suppose paid the tab for THAT meal?

"Sorry, but the Public being obligated to foot the legal bill as a "given" ACE in the political insurance deck at the start of the political game allows for all sorts of the "wrong" types to enter politics with a "get out of jail free" card."

Uh huh. And rich people are naturally more ethical than those without the big bucks necessary to for good legal representation, right?

Puh-leeze.

I'd trade an evening of being forced to listen to the collective wisdom of Elliott for an edit function on these posts. Not "to for" but simply 'for'. Not that I have anything against two-fours.

Gotta learn to take the measure twice, cut once approach.

I find it sort of odd that after a few years waiting for this case to start thinking of getting to court, that a week ago a filing cabinet was sort of found in Basi's old office and carted away by the police. Must have been a very large office. was the cabinet there all the time? Was the latest removal of stuff done by a new or old search warrant? ho knows? who will tell?
I heard this evening on some news program on TV that even though the case is supposed to get underway in December it's more likely to be in the spring. The wheels of justice grinds slowly. So we wait and wonder

BC Mary, there are no words grand enough for her absolute dedication to this
Very Great Threat To OUR Democratic Rights
We,ve been Violated by the very highest post The B.C. Liberals, For US, "The PEOPLE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA"
and going right up to the Federal Liberals Paul Martin!
We Should Be out on the Streets Demanding a Full and Independent Public Inquiry into This/These Disgraceful No Treasonous Acts!
where has CanWest been through the last three years? Me thinks a grand conspiracy against the people by withholding truths from British Colombians?

corrections
British Columbians
highest post the Premier

maestro:
No opinion yet on the John Doe gambit?

You're a little slow on the uptake tonight.

Planning any trips on Harmony Airways?

Why do think the premier was using David Basi's cellphone?

You don't suppose he'd been dining with Mr Basi too, do you? I thought they hardly knew each other.

Maybe it's time for another trip to Maui.

Awful lot of unanswered questions. I'd feel a little queasy knowing 'my' finance minister was having dinner at a fancy restaurant with the ceo of a company the government was trying to sell the people's assets to.

Bill Vanderzalm was only trying to flog Fantasy Gardens and look where that got him.

Hi Bill Tieleman. You adivised us: "I want to point out to posters on this story that it is ridiculous to attack reporters like Global TV's Keith Baldrey who are actually covering the case for the biggest media outlet in B.C."

Which, sent me scurrying back to the original Baldrey article which inspired me to post a comment suggesting that he seemed to be downplaying the story.

Here's a paragraph from his CanWest article poste on a couple Now newspapers:

Baldrey: "The more I learn about this case-from leaks, from interviews of those with some inside knowledge of it--the more I get the impression that what was once painted to be a gigantic criminal conspiracy is actually a lot less than that."

As you know BC Mary has done a ton of work on this file and she's of the opinion that Baldrey is downplaying the importance of the story.

He is actually claiming to have insider information, which he fails to divulge, and that the story is really much ado about nothing.

I'll stick to my original assessment that Baldrey's downplaying the story. He should stick to the facts and let his readers decide how important the story is.

His intention seems to be that, "there's really not much here, folks."

Thanks Truman - I think Baldrey's point was that the RCMP originally played the raid up as involving drugs and gangsters at the highest levels of government - which has yet to be shown and is unlikely the case.

What I think is more likely is that key players in the federal and provincial Liberal parties were involved in a $1 billion privatization deal that almost collapsed due to the police raid.

And that's the story I continue to pursue, particularly as the only charges laid are against three men who are not big players, are all Indo-Canadian, are not lobbyists or would-be lawyers and have not had their day in court for almost three years.

- Bill Tieleman

G West:

Still trying to read/review the link, and had two long meetings yesterday, fear not, I will respond.

Stump:

Legal bills and the rich...

No ...sorry, but with very few exceptions, most of those elected, even the NON NDP, are not filthy stinking rich.

Th filthy stinking rich, which include some Lefties/NDP, often stay out of politics.

The rest would put themselves into a very personally compromising fiscal situation if they had to personally fund a legal defence, especially on par with Glennochio's.

Given the NDP past history, and given the NDP predeliction to enter into publically -funded Private Ventures, it is very likely the NDP will try to outdo the extremely profitable Fast Ferry/ venture, and next try to create a domestic space program to rival NASA. This could result in more legal fund double dipping...maybe the next NDP leader-Premier will be caught having Haliburton building a hot tub for their purebred chihuahua.

The irony is, if NON NDP'ers with the "Right Stuff "were accessing the Public Funds to facilitate their own legal defence, the Leftie's heads would do series of 360 spins, yell neo-con SOB and projectile vomit more Leftie rhetoric...C-O-R-R-E-C-T ???

G West:

Sorry. ......I searched the link, and attempted others as well...not much in depth on the "John Doe" issue, even looked at back issues of the newspapers.

Other than what I previously posted, I really can't comment any further... the "armchair jury" can only state the Court is simply following the court rules currently in existence, and for objective reasons in the overall interest of a fair trial, and that the term "John Doe" et al can and will be used in the interim.

Of course, not all would agree, and that's their right, but that's the way it is, and let the courts deal with it.

Look maestro I haven't got time to educate you any further on this. On Friday October 27 the court clerk in Vancouver confimed the docket for Monday October 30. It contained a case called Basi Virk and Basi, specified charges and listed file references. Okay. This is all posted prominently on BCMary's blog (which is a blog by the way - the Tyee isnt') - names, numbers, sources.

On Monday, the posted docket at the court listed several John Does and NO BASI, VIRK, BASI.

Presto chango. Question is why?

We now know, because a couple of decent reporters showed up at the courts instead of just phoning in to check the docket, that the John Does ARE Basi, Virk, and Basi.

These are public hearings of which the public has a right to know. Bait and swithc tactics are sleazy at the supermarket - in the justice system they're something quite different - they are questionable behavior. Especially when the accused are higly placed political insiders.
Kapeesh?

It is all there in B&W on Mary's Blog. The real question is why no paid journalist gives a damn.

I've already pointed out I don't subscribe to your left/right polarization of thought. Both sides have ideas worth considering. Left/right sounds like marching orders to me, and I go to the beat of my own drummer.

I do however subscribe to the notion of innocent until proven guilty and value the role of a public defender in our society. We extend both those rights to everyone. Your idea would take that away.

BTW, your posts ramble in such a way that I can barely make heads or tails of what your point is a lot of the time. Please excuse me if I misinterpret your meaning. I don't have that problem with other posters, so I'm afraid I have to lay the fault for that at your feet. I would advise you to try for clarity before sarcasm and sardonic comments. As they say, comedy is hard. It may be a little too hard for you to get your point across and be funny at the same time.

Stump:

Sorry.....but there is on the one hand (left or right)" agree to disagree", but also if you just don't get it, you just don't get it, ....hence back to my original political spectrum demarcation.

Most used pots AND kettles are black...have another look.

A few weeks back there was an interesting discussion about Quebec...and I editorialized that the Federal status quo re: Quebec basically seeds corrupt Federal gov'ts. It took down the last Fed-Lib Gov't.

NDP -seeded legal re-imbursement similarly tempts fate ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC. Some TYEE bloggers simply invert that generic comment into the "neo-con filthy rich will otherwise be the only ones who can afford justice " blah blah blah.

" Chess " is best played thinking ahead and also outside the box.

Agreed ?

What part of free and open does that serve?

Protecting a politician's, er, cop's, er prosecutor's, er, John Doe's right to anonymity, of course. Whoever he is (we may presume it's a "he" or Jane Doe would have been used, no?), he has as much a right to a court ban to protect himself as you or me (hah!). Or is the court ban to protect the stability of the government and/or the system??

One thing that puzzles me, but I guess I missed the details if they were ever published, is what conflicts-of-interests there were for the first two Crown Prosecutors in this case to have to recuse themselves? Do we even know what these conflicts were? Or can we, given the court bans still covering most of the affair's intricacies.

As for CN, I'd say they've been in breach-of-contract since the Cheakamus and Moran spills, and it's time another operator was given control of the railway before CN's policies wind up plunging the Rocky Mountaineer and its load of blue-plate tourists into the depths of the Fraser Canyon or Seton Lake.

But even so, that the bidding process has been shown to be corrupted should have (and in the US, would have) prompted a class-action suit by the other bidders, and by the public shareholders of the former Crown Corp. What is the appropriate federal ministry/body to investigate this kind of thing anyway? Do we even have such controls?

Re prosecutors' conflict of interest:
I think it was because the firms involved had done, or were doing, work for clients (including the government), who were touched by the case.

If the defence (or the crown) had asked the court for in-camera hearings (which I believe was the case in some stages in this whole affair) that would be a legitimate concern.

In this case the public interest can only be served by an open process. The John Doe thing was either an innocent mistake or an attempt at a fiddle to throw off the press. The fact the press hasn't commented just makes one wonder.

I agree with your observations about CN, and, any system where an arms length commercial transaction is supposed to be happening doesn't have the chied financial offer eating dinner with one of the bidders to the process. If I ever called a tender on a job and leaned that way to one contractor I'd never get anyone to tender for my projects again.

We have site meetings, the plans are handed out, questions are asked and answered - no big deal.

Funny business was going down – Farrell -Collins little junket post dated the BCRail sale, there were other irons in the fire at that time.

These guys are supposed to have the public interest in mind - I think something else entirely was going on.

My view.

Whether or not the 'truth' will actually come out depends at least in part how active the media are in pursuing it.
It's not just up to the courts.

Your point about CN is valid Skookum1.

Maestro:

You're waving your hands a lot and maybe there's a score in front of you, but I can't hear the music.

WTF is your actual point? It escapes me. And so, I'll have to ignore your posts until you make some sense again.

Try some simple declarative sentences if you have a point to make. You're on the verge of gibberish.

'chied' is meant to be 'chief' sorry.

Sorry STUMP:

I don't get paid for the column inch/centimeter.

Diplomatically speaking ,...We'll simply have to find another TYEE topic to discuss.

Ciao.

Stump, Maestro has almost pre-empted any scorn I might reap upon him/her by giving me huge compliments on another thread, but I will say this much:

He's actually very lucid, articulate and intelligent, SOMETIMES.

As for this staccato, abbreviated obscure writing style...

I dunno...Unless it's just passive-aggression, requiring a reader to read his stuuf five or six times before finally teasing out his meaning.

See Stump....

one builds bridges and alliances...I even got Truman in my posse' /entourage...now only have to work on his sidekick Nana.

or...put another way, ...I even got Truman in my posse' entourage,...thats how one build bridges(with imported workers) and alliances...now we get Truman's comrade Nana converted.

or..........

or..........

or........

Listen to your posse then. They can't comprehend your fractured prose either.

"I don't get paid for the column inch/centimeter."

Don't flatter yourself mate. The way you write sometimes you'd never find anyone willing to pay you for poorly-punctuated gibberish.

Stump:

Did it take ya that long to read 5 lines and come up with 2 (?)itty retorts almost 3 hours apart .
NOTE(?) = w or sh

Or more simplified for ya...STUMP Version 2006..." ya that slow ? "
"

PS Let me know if ya need FURTHER clarification. Looks like it kept ya up all night.

"Looks like it kept ya up all night."

Appearances are deceiving.

Time for a writerly anecdote. Pay attention. You'll learn something from a master of the art (not me).

Paraphrasing a bit and perhaps you've heard it before. If so, you'd do well to think about it some more.

A bunch of writers were proudly proclaiming just how many words they had produced that day. A certain Mr. E. Hemingway offered his tally.

"I spent the morning putting in a comma, and the afternoon taking it out."

And that, my friend, is the difference between genius and just-another-wannabe.

Simple declarative sentences. Try 'em out.

To continue with the off-topic thought:

The chauvinistic and deeply depressed alcoholic big-game hunter, Hemmingway, had a generalized goal to write a page per day. He was extremely economical in his word choice. An easy read, he used very short sentences that bespoke his newspaper reporter/war correspondent roots. Though highly acclaimed for both, the frankness and the subtleties, to be found in the text of his short stories and very short novels, his Darwinian world-view is of the same ilk that the neocons now use to steal the lives of average people. He thought himself noble and just when he travelled huge distances to kill wild beasts with high-powered rifles. Good writer, yes, but he spent most of his days working to get his single page done before noon so he could pickle his brain to sleep, thereby squandering possibilities of becoming more enlightened.

Being subtle, though good for a Hemmingway novel, is not generally appropriate for blogs, email, and chatrooms. This electronically delivered information is cold and unfeeling. With today's fast-paced society, the reader/writer has been trained to respond fairly instantly to the words as they are on the page. Reading between the lines leads to FLAMING! Mulling the words of other reader/writers of the English language is a luxury that reached its heyday in the 18th & 19th centuries; and then, it was the domain of those of priviledge. We are of a time when working people get to read and write as well; but we are busy working people, and we've not the time for pondering things that can be stated more clearly.

Mull: to think about, to ponder without making much progress (as one would do while holding the drink of the same name in one's hand).

SIG

SIG..

I will give your efforts the respect they deserve for the " thought-filled " thoughts and perspectives , and I do get the gist of what you are saying.

( Unlike Stump....who probably doesn't have the slightest friggin' clue, ...but ain't got the guts to admit it,..right Stump ..is that "clear enough" for you ??? ).

Maestro:

You're becoming obsessed with what I think and how I respond to your diatribes. It's a little bit sad and a little bit scary.
--------
For those of you who wonder why some of us are reluctant to use our real names on the Net....
--------

SIG:

I know he (EH) was an ******* and an alcoholic. One of those states is a helluva disease. Also, a man from a different time where far different attitudes were the norm.

But mostly a writer who could get to the point in just a few words and leave you gutted along the way. I have a ton of respect for that ability.

"Being subtle, though good for a Hemmingway novel, is not generally appropriate for blogs, email, and chatrooms."

Perhaps not, but comprehension remains a worthwhile goal. It's too easy to blame the audience when they don't 'get it' and a cop-out too, esp. when there are plenty of examples of writers who can convey difficult concepts with clarity.

I mean, Geez, I've managed to wade thru Joyce's Ulysses and get the gist of it, but the conductor's text is just a Grand Mal ellipsis fit near as I can tell.

Stump:
I like that too ->'ellipsis' fit is very good; original I suppose?

Hat's off to you too SIG, I kind of liked the story about the time Morley Callaghan KO'ed Ernie in a boxing ring in Paris. Let me know if you've heard it or not.

I have to admit, I felt a little proud of that zinger myself.

However, having just read another post of his where he chose to make sense, it's obvious the ellipsis fits are just his way of being an annoying pecker-wood, so I won't be wasting any more advice, sincere or sarcastic, on on our very own musical genius, Leonard Word-crimes.

Maestro, we all want to read your stuff, but why not drop all of those awful sentences and start writing like a normal person, eh. Copy G.West, and Alcibiades even, if you have to, eh.

ahem!

Hi G West, I don't know anything about Hemmingway being KO'd in a ring by his friend, Canadian pro boxer - Callahan. Thanks for the tip o' the 'at. SIG

H'lo SharingIsGood
Here's the bare bones of the story:

The two writers met and became friends when they were both working at the Toronto Star. I think their boxing probably dates to that time. Callaghan was shorter, lighter and faster than Hemingway and, the way the story goes, I guess, a better boxer.

Callaghan wrote about his tactics when sparring with the bigger man, he had "worked out a routine, darting in and out with fast lefts to the head," while Hemingway "waited for a chance to nail me solidly."

He goes on, "It must have been exasperating to him that my left was always beating him to the punch. His mouth began to bleed.... His tongue kept curling along his lip, wiping off blood.... Suddenly he spat at me; he spat a mouthful of blood; he spat in my face."

Callaghan recoiled in shock. Hemingway explained, "That's what the bullfighters do when they're wounded.... It's a way of showing contempt."

In Paris, at the event I referred to earlier, F. Scott Fitzgerald was the timekeeper. He had been told to call out one-minute rounds with two-minute rests between them. But Scott got so involved in the action that he forgot to mark the clock and the 'final' round went seriously overtime.

Hemingway, exhausted, made a wild swing toward Morley, who dodged and nailed the bigger man with a hard cross to the jaw. Hemingway was out cold on the canvas.

Callaghan reports that Fitzgerald cried out, "Oh, my God! I let the round go four minutes!" Hemingway spat his bullfighter's contempt in a new direction: "All right, Scott...if you want to see me getting the shit kicked out of me, just say so. Only don't say you made a mistake."

Macho to a fault I’d say!

(Gore Vidal quote courtesy of Nana's link via Truman)

I think Gore Vidal's got it right and Tieleman has got it wrong when it comes to his defense of Baldrey, Palmer and others. They have been pathetic.

In 2004, Joy MacPhail, especially, and Jenny Kwan singlehandedly took on this government over the legislature raids. They deserve credit for what a much larger Opposition has failed to do under their present leadership. Read the hansard from 2004 onwards. There are pages and pages of astute questions and valuable research. Joy was relentless in her questioning...and quite alone in doing so.

All of this largely went unreported and the questions and concerns this Opposition of Two raised were not followed up or investigated...not by Baldrey, not by Palmer and not by anyone in the msm. The legislature simply was not reported on in any kind of depth...in fact hardly at all. This is about filtering the news rather than questioning it or investigating it. Reporters have too often become complicit in the subterfuge of those they work for. I'm tired of their apologists...as this province has been allowed to be sold from underneath us all. Are journalists to be excluded from the ethical choices all people must make in their place of work? Since when is shilling defensible?

It has been through articles in The Tyee and Vive le Canada over the years and a number of excellent citizen journalist blogs, presently exemplifeid by BC Mary's Legislature Raids blog that this story has remained alive.

The msm press has failed the citizens of this province miserably. The proof is in the pudding...where one privatization after another goes largely un- investigated. "Reported on" to a degree, yes... questioned and investigated, no. Where are the in depth investigative articles about what is presently happening with BC Hydro and the run of river IPP's. This is an enormous story...concerning water, power and our sovereignty. The public is largely unaware of what is happening which, of course, is the plan..reporters becoming simply docile corporate facilitators in this regard.

Anyway, if you read the next part of that interview with Gore Vidal...he suggests these are the end days of newspapers....which perhaps is a good thing if this is what now passes for journalism. As people question more and assume more and more of the responsibility of getting the needed info out there...the press's failure to do so is ironically evolving into the people's strength.

Lynn
I shouldn't have been so hard on Gore Vidal.

All I read was the first few paras and assumed it was another conspiracy promotion entirely...relative to the US having 'done' it themselves I mean.

You know my feelings on that issue.

Vidal's remarks about the press are worthwhile and the business about Cheney didn't put me off that much in re-reading it.

Vidal had always been an outsider - even though he's a patrician to the core.

GW

SharingIsGood
Callaghan's book about the incident, I should have mentioned, is called: That Summer in Paris

Ha, sounds like Hemmingway. Thanks, GW.

I actually have a Hemmingway biography not 1/2 read on my bookshelf. I set it down after reading it for a couple of hours and never piced it up again. I will have to start it again (it's been 14 years) and finish it this time.

Hi G West,

No worry, G West. I actually haven't read what you wrote about Gore Vidal yet...must be on another thread so will try to find it... I'm far behind in reading the threads lately.

...must be the outsider in Vidal I like, despite that "patrician to the core" nature of his that you mentioned. ;-)

By the way, Happy Birthday..it's a few days late but many best wishes all the same. Hope you had a good one. :-)

Whatever....

As ya'll sit at Starbucks etc. and take turns sitting on each others lap in umbilicalized group -think mode and in chorus telling the chosen comrade what to type.

.....forming a posse' of thought clones.

At least try to hide the evidence.

I'd much rather plead guilty of the Leftie " charges" than be party to the aforementioned broken- record psycho -babble. However, not to dissuade nor discourage you....it is somewhat "useful".

Hemingway and the Legislature raid ??? Huh ???

Check the bottoms of your own pots and kettles...same colour as everyone elses'...but don't claim otherwise,nor hide the ad -nauseum " deer in headlights" look.

Keep it comin', but if you "don't get it", not my problem.

Maestro,
Havin' a hard time keeping up with more than one thought at a time dude?

Just roll on back up the thread and read past Lynn's post, you'll make the connection. This started out as a reflection on YOUR writing style, remember?

What colour are the bottoms of my pots and kettles Maestro?

Lynn, thanks for the birthday wishes. The celebration isn't actually for another couple weeks. 39 is a big one though.

I don't seem to be hearing much in this about some of the more interesting elements of this case.

The bribery. the $800,000+ in real estate on a $65000 salary. The fact that some of that real estate at least was used for a grow op. The transfer of money to the federal Liberal party.

The question for me isn't 'was some corporation offering bribes and finding politicians willing to take them?' That stuff is just too ordinary. Tacky, really.

The good questions for me are, Was our provincial goverment running dope houses? What exact relationship do they have with the Hell's Angels and the Mafia? Where exactly did all that money, claimed to be for false memberships, come from and ultimately go? What's the Maui connection?

Remember? The first cabinet meeting to deal with this raid was held in Maui. Extraordinary stuff. In light of the Accenture/Enron stuff, I really do want answers to these questions, and good ones too.

But of course, there was no business for a fall session this year, so there's nobody to ask.

Bailey,
Have you been to BCMary's blog lately?
She has there, without a doubt, the best compendium of information on the case and how it's been running that's available anywhere - along with some very interesting commentary - among which is more up to date information about where and what Eric Bornmann is doing these days.

I think she will have more details in the not too distant future as well. Keep checking up; leave a comment if you like; ask a question - a lot of people are.

Here's the link if you haven't bookmarked it yet:
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

And, I am sorry about the snert thing - be got under my skin.

BC Mary has done amazing work on this. In the best tradition. I'm very pleased with her altogether.

I understand about getting annoyed. there seems to be an epidemic of it going around for some reason. Must be a full moon or something.

I erroneously posted this on another thread...
"I see "Maui" Fred is back in town and on the air, perhaps to get sanitized before the next end run around the electorate?"
...perhaps the current ministries have too many warts and he's looking for new recruits.

G West:

RE: The colour of your pots and kettles ???

That's for me to know and you to find out.

....unless they are Teflon or styrofoam.

Peace bro.

So you admit you don't know. Just as I suspected.

......Using process of elimination:

Tupperware,using the microwave, much like Hemingway, just as I suspected.

- Bill Tieleman

Ding! Small lightbulb turns itself on. But only to make me squint at Bill's words, trying to figure them out.

So ... is Bill is only writing about The Legislature Raids because the 3 accused:

* are minor players
* aren't lobbyists or would-be lawyers
* have not had their day in court, and
* are Indo-Canadian?

What the heck does that mean? None of those factors even begin to explain why I've spent time, day by day, over the past 3 years, tracking the reasons and significance of The Legislature Raids. At a bare minimum, my reasons are:

* loss of an enormous public asset (BC Rail)
* possibility that other public assets were lost by the same process
* possible tainting of the B.C. legislative process
* possible tainting of our electoral process, both provincial and federal
* the blanket media silence suggesting ... what?
* and too many unanswered questions which the public needs explained.

Sheesh, Bill. Would you like to try that answer again?

Hadn't noticed the tidbit you zeroed in on, BCMary - the implication that ethnic discrimination is at play in the workings of the scandal. That the Indo-Canadian dudes were "fall guys" and now aren't even being given timely process.

I did like Bailey's bit about the why and wherefore of the cabinet meeting on Maui. No doubt the Maui breathalyzer squad was posted nearby, given previous experience with BC politicians. And no doubt a few of them were having drinks, given the situation.

Were they fall guys? Maybe. Are we likely to find out? Not anytime soon. But painting it in BC's usual ethnic-whining colours isn't going to help sort out the mysteries of the case; it's only, as BCMary points out, something of a red herring, and not to the point.

And I'd say we all have a right to know what the case is about before the next scheduled election comes along; I can even conceive of an injunction to force the case's evidence and transcripts open in the interests of political fairness. The public has to know the whole scope of the CN deal and the full meaning of the Ledge case in advance of any election featuring the party connected with the case. I would even think this is, ultimately a federal matter, but I've never studied constitutional law so wouldn't know the particulars (Alcibiades?).

The money laundering bit certainly has some kind of federal implications. There were $80,000 I think transferred from these guys to the federal Liberal party, ostensibly for memberships, but the "members" either didn't know it, weren't actually humans, or had been dead for some time.

From provincial Liberals to federal Liberals while both parties were in government.

I'd say that might make it a federal case.

Bailey very true where has our justice system gone?
As far as I'm concerned all those involved in the B.C. Legislature Scandal should also be charged as an accessory to the deaths of the two rail workers!
http://www.utubc.com/services_july2006/index.htm
CN rail is just another American owned and operated Corporation and Canada still subsidize them?

Skookum1
I'm not sure how much I can help relative to the federal connection. CN is a private company - had it still been a crown there might have been federal implications.

I can't understand why there hasn't been more made of the fact that certain elected official(s) were still on the horsemen's watch list 'after the BC Rail gambit' was over'.

This wasn't just about highly placed political aides, as much as the AG has tried to paint the fact that certain politicians conversations were 'accidentally' overheard.

And, the 'Liberal' political operatives here in BC don't appear to have learned their lesson. Someone posted a link on the Ignatieff thread to a story from CP about which indicates that the Ignatieff camp is giving off the same kind of political odours that observers here are pretty familiar with.

BC Dude, what's with the gallery of images from someone's wake?

You're right about it being a wake, Skookum1, for the two CN employees killed in the most recent crash of an under-maintained engine and, I think, lumber loaded car.

One man named Don Forsythe, I think.

In the Lillooet area if I'm not mistaken

Maybe you've seen this before, it's from a piece in th G&M of 20 Sept. 2006

The NDP released documents indicating the Canadian National Railway train that killed two workers in a fiery crash in June was more than a month overdue for its maintenance check.

The record log disclosed by NDP transportation critic David Chudnovsky yesterday suggests that CN Rail was 38 days overdue for maintenance by May 18.

On June 29, a locomotive and a car carrying lumber slid 300 metres down a cliff in the Fraser Canyon about 40 kilometres north of Lillooet.

Brakeman Tommy Dodd, 55, of Ashcroft died on the loaded lumber as he tried to set the car's manual brakes. The conductor, Don Faulkner, 59, of Savona died in the locomotive. Only engineer Gordon Rhodes, 49, managed to survive after he jumped free of the three-decades-old, 350-tonne diesel locomotive as it went off the track on the steep grade.

Mr. Chudnovsky, who won't reveal where and from whom he received the documents, said the records show that by June 15, the engine was 59 days overdue for servicing and there were no brake shoes left. He said he is confident that they are legitimate documents and the records have not been disputed by CN Rail.

The pictures are from the wake.

Ah; didn't notice any backdrops/scenery or I'd likely have picked that out (the place is branded on my brain). I know the spot on the rail line at Moran very well; lots of times been over it on the Budd Car just inching along, usually with a roadcrew working on that stretch because it's constantly giving way (the slope of the canyon there is a giant scree, more or less, from the rim of the Diamond S benchland at ~5000' to the Fraser at just above 1000', with the rail line high on top; well, you know as you've seen those amazing aerials of the crash. The slopes in question are why the old wagon road from Lillooet to Alexandria went over Pavilion Mountain to Kelly Lake, instead of via Moran and through the cleft named Arden Forest to Kelly Lake and the remainder of the wagon road to Clinton (this was called Cut-Off Valley and still appears on some maps that way; the cut-off being because this was a shorter, though steeper, route, than the longer way from Pavilion to Clinton via Marble Canyon and Hat Creek.

Like I said, not a spot you want the Rocky Mountaineer or the excursion tours of the Whistler Northwind or whatever they call it going off the rails at Moran; or into the drink along Seton or Anderson Lakes. That run must have been even more fun when all the creeks were trestles instead of fill and rip-rap: I'm thinking the Gibbs Creek trestle: http://www.cayoosh.net/pge_trestles.html (find pics of locomotive crash to reckon scale), which looks down into the maw of the great gates of the Fraser at Fountain:
http://www.cayoosh.net/fountain.html

Anyway, Rocky Mountain Railtours isn't run by CN, thankfully, but given the issues with equipment maintenance and safety policies for tbeir rolling stock, you have to wonder about the security of CN's commitment to the roadbed (especially because, as far as I understand the deal, they don't own it).

Why would Keith Baldry underplay this mess? Well, "because", eh? If he was to come out with the zeal the entire media showed when the subject was Clarke's deck he might not be welcome in Victoria's nicer circles..and that would hamper his job as "legislative" reporter..the liEbrals might not want to talk to him...and this mess is going to drag on for years...and years...and more years, and a legislative reporter who isn't welcomed by the legislative pooh bah's is as good as out of a job..for years'n'years...whereas if he says oh, no sweat, tempest in a teapot, right to a fair trial, right to a good defence, no vigilante justice, gotta be fair and rah rah rah he will still be ass-kissed and thought of as a good fella and might from time to unspecified time even get the opportunity to earn the salary paid him.

BC Mary..good on you, woman!

As for the possibility this is all some sort of public playing out of a deep seated racist attitude and that the fact Basi-Virk-Basi are Indo-Canadians proves...???

cow cack.

That's like suggesting the Clark-Collins connection is proof all Scots are two-faced fokkers...accusations of racism are always a two-edged sword...it would be wrong to suggest they are charged because they're Indo Canadian and equally wrong to suggest they are innocent because they're Indo Canadian.

Amazing story about that filing cabinet, eh?

Why it might take another three years to go through it and until it's gone through the case can't proceed...at which time, what, they find a box of records in the basement?

I'm till shaking in my boots ... after reading the first the eye-witness reports by Robin Mathews who was in B.C. Supreme Courtroom 67 for the 4 days of pre-trial conferences for the Basi-Virk-Basi trial.

This is the first palpably honest report -- aimed at the people who need to know (the public) -- to come out of this past 3 years of concern. It'll shake you.

Find Robin's story at:

The Legislature Raids
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

Anne Cameron, thank you for kind words. I've missed your special views on The Tyee, and each spring I remember that lovely essay in which you wrote "Spring comes to Tahsis in shades of pink ... and everything is connected."

I hope you're writing lots and lots ... and that you'll return here ... and will visit my blog, too.

Be well.

Skookum1 I think Alcibiades has answered your question very well.
There was not one mention of his wake in mainstream media CanWest.
CanWest non truth, no conscience, sold to the highest bidder which includes the corporations!

Irrelevant to discussion topic, but I just had another look at those railway-wake pictures; nope, they're in Kamloops for sure, looks to be in the northwest part of town (above Brocklehurst).

Skookum1, not completely irrelevant surely.
I think Don Faulkner, at least, was a BCRail employee...now a CN casualty.

It the sale of BCRail to CN was a corrupt transaction and the subsequent death of former BC Rail employees are at least somehow the 'responsibility' of the new employer then I can see how there might be a fairly high level of relevant bitterness on behalf of other former BCRail employees.

Particularly given the current government's way with promises.

I think you're right about the location of the wake, I was trying to place it myself.

Celebration, guys -- Celebration of the lives of Don Faulkner and Tom Dodd. (Wake sounds so [/I]dead.[I]

I wish they had given some text with those photos, as there's so much life, love, and caring in their faces.

What were they saying? Did they allow themselves to talk about other wrecks, other issues, other near-misses?

Looking at those smiles, I don't think so. I think they knew what had been lost and were celebrating that they had known such men. Celebration.

Celebration, guys -- Celebration of the lives of Don Faulkner and Tom Dodd. (Wake sounds so dead.)

I wish they had given some text with those photos, as there's so much life, love, and caring in their faces.

What were they saying? Did they allow themselves to talk about other wrecks, other issues, other near-misses?

Looking at those smiles, I don't think so. I think they knew what had been lost and were celebrating that they had known such men. Celebration.

Lillooet's way more mountainous; the valley's a lot narrower and there'd be mountain flanks/cliffs over the site; in one shot it could be Lillooet, given the sage/grass and houses/trailers on a slope behind the place, but it also could be anywhere in the southern Interior; but it's the open-valley shots that are telling; that's the Thompson River, couldn't be anything else.

The BCR/PGE actually has an extensive crash history. I think I might have put some pix of various ones on http://www.pge_crashes.html; might not have added a sequence somebody sent me of some diesels being pulled up out of Seton Lake (one of the most dangerous stretches of the line is the last few miles before the Lillooet end of the lake). But the other crashes tended to have to do not with maintenance issues or things that could have been avoided; but geotechnical issues beyond the line's control.

Another issue that was mumbled about over the years, and I think surfaced during the CN buyout, was the practicality of a connecting line from Lillooet to Lytton or Clinton to Ashcroft (Walhachin or Semlin more likely given grade issues). Clinton-Walhachin is a lot easier to build, but both lines involve major expropriation and land-claims issues (the Lillooet-Lytton route in particular).

Politically and environmentally unsavory as either line is, in terms of safety it would route part of the heavy industrial traffic from northern BC completely away from the dangerous Kelly Lake-D'Arcy and Cheakamus Canyon stretches of the line. It also would allow for circle-tour passenger routings (currently the Rocky Mountaineer runs one-way northward up the line, without stopping anywhere between Whistler and PG), which the local economy badly needs. The reason the Clinton-Walhachin connection didn't get built in the PGE days was because at first the big national rail lines preferred to shut the PGE out; and during WAC Bennett's times he wanted the PGE kept separate from them, for whatever reason. That's how I remember it anyway; maybe there are other sides or versions to the story.

sorry that was http://www.cayoosh.net/pge_crashes.html

The bulldozer one, by the way, was as far as I can tell is within a mile or two of D'Arcy; the dozer would have gotten to its position in the picture, upside down on the tracks, after rolling downhill from the first big climb, known as Powerline Hill, of the Anderson High-Line Road far above. About 2000', maybe less but not much; I know because I almost went over there once one cold winter night when the seepage on the road was frozen over....

So the dozer's not the railway's fault, but had a train been there when the dozer came down, well, 'nuff said.

The whole line is a geotechnical nightmare until you get to Kelly Lake; Tunnel Point, Porteau, Cheakamus, Nairn, the lakes, the canyon....as with Highway 99, you build something along that kind of geological crap, you'd better be prepared for the ongoing maintenance/upkeep.

But at least, in a power unit with brake shoes instead of air and steel, the guys had a chance. CN maintenance issues are notorious on the prairies as well. I have a relative who used to be a diesel engineer for them. He took a buyout and retired rather than look the other way and keep his fingers crossed.

Getting back to the Tyee Subject as this Legislature Scandal gets bigger & bigger.I'd say November 11 2006 would be a great day to bring this up as we are going to REMEMBER why so many Canadians died for OUR FREEDOM and OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS!
WE have to stop Campbell right now in his Corrupt Tracks!

http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

http://www.radicalpress.com/?p=181

BC Dude...you are a fine, fine soul...and that is one great comment.

a big thank you Lynn!
I am a very compassionate Canadian but I'm also a very compassionate British Columbian!
I think 90 percent of British Columbians are totally disgusted with our so-called bought and paid for politicians!
And as British Columbians we have a duty to protect This Beautiful Province of British Columbia with All Its Natural Resources for Our Future Generations!
So Starting Tomorrow I'm going to become very involved with saving this Province from the corporate = corruption that has become a huge cancerous tumor of greed which is fast spreading But the People Have the Power to Put These Bloodsuckers down.
Check out killerCoke.com now that's a huge company but the people around the world are boycotting Coca-Cola products because of their human rights issues!
So corporations need the people to buy their products but we don't need the corporations!

November the 11th 2006 Remembrance Day
I think our veterans would be proud of people who showed up with bring back democracy and freedom of the press as this is what they fought and died for over 60 years ago.
"Corruption and hypocrisy ought not to be inevitable products of democracy, as they undoubtedly are today" : Mahatma Gandhi

British Columbia is rife with corruption. So what is new?

I don't know if I've had this up before but even so he deserves a second viewing!
We are being attacked both federally and provincially where is all the opposition to this? They're all the same a bunch of cowards, so if the shoe fits.
Have a great evening!
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear: Cicero Marcus Tullius

Puleeze Truman! WE have Rachael Marsden! Never mind that Ann Coulter person!
http://www.rachelmarsden.com/