It is a positive sign that the Information Commissioner has enough independance to criticise the government without fear of losing a job. Yet government will be secretive as much as it can be. Glad to hear their are journalists who actually use FOI's. Here's a question though: where in the world does one gain expertise on FOI stuff -- I can't find any training sources except some conferences for bureaucrats. I guess you have to read the act?

Yes, thank you Tyee for being on this story right out of the starting gates, and making space for discussion.

To learn how to make BC FOI requests, go to the website of the B.C. Freedom of Information and Privacy Assoc., FIPA - at fipa.bc.ca
Call 604-739-9788 They show how to do it.

This is good news....Im guessing they werent able to keep it as quiet as they would have liked. Wonder what stunt they will pull next though?

I think it is bad news, I would have much preferred to hear Wally argue his case. Now we will never know exactly what was on their minds.

In the case of de jong, I suspect government officials may have an interest in keeping certain facts surrounding the deaths of Forestry Workers a secret, and with respect to Bill 30 there are several examples of nefarious dealings with respect to the so called "private/public partnerships" that have yet to see the light of day.

CFB Chilliwack and the TUS application come to mind.

Wishful thinking may force one to conclude that the Tyee's two articles may have helped. Rather I think it was from within the Liberals. Maybe Walley O. threw a snit at the Premier?

Didn't really care before, don't care now!

Just heard Vaughn Palmer on the radio.

He said that the NDP told the Liberals that if they didn't back away from this bill and listen to the critics, they were going to everything they could to delay passage right through the summer break.

With only thirteen more seats than the NDP, I suspect that Campbell was worried about some of his own MLA's voting against it.

Capitalist: That's a pretty sad motto to live by but, it explains a great deal...

Trial of 3 aides adjourned 6 months

Disclosure issues and possibility of new charges help put case on hold

A separate investigation and ongoing disclosure issues have adjourned for six months the much-delayed trial of three men charged in the December 2003 police raid on the legislature.

The Province Thursday, May 11, 2006

Capitalism:

Which is testament to the depth of your ignorance and, perhaps provides insight into why you're an advocate of capitalism in name only.

Firms, like individuals, benefit by having free access to information.

Capitalist: That's a pretty sad motto to live by but, it explains a great deal...

Yeah funny, because he cared enough to spend time defending the bills in previous threads. I think he would rather tell us he doesn't care than admit he may have been wrong.

That is funny - yesterday you were arguing (weakly) that businesses need to keep things private. Christ! I've seen more maturity from my 3 year old!

On May 10, 2006, Government House Leader Mike De Jong told the BC Legislature that Bill 23, the Public Inquiry Act would be deferred.

On May 10, 2006, Three former B.C. government workers facing corruption charges after police raided the B.C. legislature had their trial adjourned for six months by Judge Elizabeth Bennett because of disclosure issues.

What a coincidence.

Regardles of what our Neocon enemies say here, and the character of their response was entirely predictable, you know that the government of these twits in Victoria did not just suddenly have a change of heart and decide to proceed off in a more democratic direction, respectful of the people's right to know the details of their own "public" business. It is Tyee and we, and other pressures and persons, doubtless alarmed by the thrust of these two bills and what they might provoke, were they allowed to proceed, that produced some more sober second thought here.

But even then note, they have not been scrapped entirely as an intent or plan for the future, at some more opportune time when no one is looking, but merely "deferred". A tricky word that, which needs to be paid attention to.

From the Oxford English Reference Dictionary: Defer/ put off to a later time; postpone.

It also has a specific US meaning, pertaining to military conscription, but essentially having the same meaning there as well.

Finally, from the same source, its secondary meaning is to "yield or make concessions in opinion or action."

So clearly, the wish and intent is still there amongst this Party of the Neoconazis, and we should remain aware and vigilant of that. It has not merely been finally and conclusively tossed into the garbage where it belongs, but deferrred to another, hopefully (for them) more propitious time.

But meanwhile, indeed do, regardless of the belittling efforts of the braunshirts here, do give yourself and small self-congratulatory pat on the back. :-) Tyee and we were able to quickly respond to this and become part of something that obviously worked to good effect.

It is one of those things which they will never acknowledge of course, cannot, and indeed will do everything to discredit and pooh-pooh-, but WE KNOW! 8-D

Congratulations my brothers, sisters and comrades of "the left" and the simple nascent "gathering of the people". :-)

She Who Must Be Obeyed (said with loving warmth) and I are off to "the city" today, which in small town life seems to need to be done once in awhile, for some things-, and just for a small reconnection to the larger world. Catch ya's later, of course.

Off topic, I apologize for, but I hope Tyee is contemplating doing an in depth story on the new leader for the national Greens. A woman whose name immediately escapes me, but in the brief interview I saw with her on CBC, is taking quite strong and more radically progressive positions than what went before her.

Something seems to be happening there with The Greens, I suspect, that we may be wanting to pay attention to and get some information on. At least I'm intrigued enough to want to know more. (And Carole and Jack, along with some of you parliamentary and legislative folks from out of the NDP milieu, may be wanting some additional information here too, and to pay attention to what is happening there. Lots of folks are looking for another place to go, besides the usual and increasingly predictable and ineffective places you keep taking us all.)

Oops!

The Mrs tells me that this woman has not actually been elected yet, but is one of the candidates for a new leadership. (One of the reasons why a man needs a woman around in his life.:-)

The point remains: The Greens are having a leadership race. Who are the two candidates and what are the issues?

It would be nice if Tyee could helps us understand more objectively what is going on over there in the camp of The Greens.

It's Elizabeth May, Coyote. Resigning head of the Sierra Club of Canada. I can't remember if she voted for Brian Mulroney or abstained during that recent embarrassment sponsored by the Corporate Knights or what ever they call their compromised selves. I bet Lynn would remember.
I think the convention is this summer.

Maybe these bills were never really intended to pass but were offered as diversions.
Consider that although they are so laughably over the top they couldn't be taken seriously they have drawn attention AWAY from an equally sinister bill that many haven't heard of.
This bill, as I mentionned in another article, will allow the provincial(corporate) government to usurp the authority of local and municipal goverments allowing unfettered access to our rivers and streams to private-for-profit power generation plants.
These plants, once established, will after a short initial contract be allowed to sell electricity outside of BC at the highest price they can get. i.e. our rivers, hundreds and hundreds of them, will be blighted by plants and the power they generate will NOT even be for consumption in BC but wherever the private company can get the most profit.
Neufeld and his corporate puppet-masters are trying to sell this as a "green" initiative but really it's a cynical scam that will forever change the face of our province.
Currently there are HUNDREDS of pending applications all across BC for these things. Imagine every pristine river in BC jammed up with a parasitic corporate power plant lining the pockets of some fat cats all because they threw a couple hundred thousand into gordo's campaign coffers.
Some of these projects, done properly and for the RIGHT reason could be a good idea.
i.e. minimal environmental impact for local public power generation

BUT they want almost every river, with almost no real environmental considerations, for private-for-profit, NON-local, power generation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And if you don't believe that environmental impacts aren't really considered in granting approval for these things wait til to you what they did to the environmental assessment act back in 2002. I have the transcript of a speech on these changes given by george "bagman" abbott to a bunch of cronies at the sheraton in which he boasts "We have been steadily removing impediments to major projects.." and "Under the new process, most proponents draft THEIR OWN TERMS of reference for their environmental assessment applications.. This removes the EAO (Environmental Assessment Office) as a potential bottleneck and puts the proponent in the drivers seat.." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds really thorough and rigourous heh?!
Talk about the fox guarding the chicken-coop!!
I guess when gordo boasted that "BC's open for business!!" what he really meant was "BC FOR SALE, EVERYTHING MUST GO!!"
Write your MLA about this before it's too late.

I respectfully disagree with jesterjoggers first two paragraphs and maybe the third. They had every intention of plowing this thing through. The so called open and accountable New Era government may have forgotten there is a fairly large opposition and a lot of folks not in the opposition who are very much against such stuff. Maybe their new , move more to the midle image was part of the thinking process as opposition mounted?
A public inquiry with the public, and even the legislature being excluded from the results of such an inquiry scares the heck out of me. It's bad enough seeing folks like Abbott stonewall in question period or the transport minister doing his windmill act during estimates to make me believe they would try anything. They have become a pompous bunch on the front bench and the back bench thunps the tables as required. Time fo a change

Atta' boy/girl DPL

Elizabeth May graduated from Dalhousie Law School in 1983.

She began work as an environmental lawyer advising Tom McMillan, Brian Mulroney's Environment minister.

She resigned from that post on principle after exposing the government's plan to grant illegal permits for the Rafferty and Alameda Dams in Saskatchewan.

In 1989 Elizabeth became the founding Executive Director of the Sierra Club of Canada.

She has received numerous awards, including the United Nations Global 500 award, two honourary doctorates and the 2002 Harkin Award from the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society.

She is the author of four books.

In 2001, May went on a fourteen day hunger strike to protest the government's failure to clean up the Sydney tar ponds in Cape Breton.

In 2005 Elizabeth May was appointed as an Officer to the Order of Canada.

On May 9, 2006, May entered the Green Party of Canada's leadership race.

While May had no prior political party affiliation, she did publicly endorse New Democratic Party leadership hopeful Bill Blaikie in 2001 in that leadership contest.

Books by Elizabeth May

Budworm Battles
Frederick Street
Paradise Won
The Cutting Edge
How to Save the World in Your Spare Time (Spring 2006)

This story makes my day.

bulltoss

But did she vote for Mulroney on the greenest PM in history poll? She and Maude Barlow were both on the panel. One of them voted and one abstained, as I recall.

She would undoubtedly give the Greens a huge boost, imo.

grub/verso:

If you read the posts - I was talking about lightening up. I was saying that these bills don't impact my life in anyway whatsoever. I was trying to point out that I didn't care.

What I was arguing was the shamelessness of the Tyee for using the poor girl as an analogy to prove a political point, and that the bills had a different functionality.

I absolutely see the purpose of the bills, and would remove some of the tape surrounding P3's. However, like I said, who cares!

I used to do consulting work for many public corporations, and secrecy is necessary in order to ensure the integrity of insider information. If there are leaks or probes, the stock price gets hammered and shareholders file lawsuits.

...One of yours from the original article maybel. You weren't just arguing that you found the picture associated with the article offensive (which, the tyee has since removed - they've also removed one of your posts to there maybel). It seems to me that at least yesterday you saw some merit in the bills, but now that they've been deferred you sulk in a corner and say "I don't care". This came totally unprovoked and makes me wonder why you felt the need to tell us you don't care one day after insinuating that you do.

I agree with ubiquitous capitalism - Now there's two words to build a sentence around).

jesterjogger: Some really important points you are making regarding private-for-profit power generation plants... all under the guise of "green" power.

Speaking of green...despite Ms. May's impressive resume..and no doubt she would give the Greens a huge boost...that she could vote for Mulroney as the greenest PM...and by doing so not see that his policies contributed to the most detrimental of effects on our environment. The ratification of the Free Trade Agreement with the US and whole loss of sovereignty issue that accompanies free trade. If we can't control our destiny how can we protect our environment?

Not to mention Mulroney's cancelling of the National Energy Program and the relentless privatization of so many of Canada's Crown corporations under his PMship including Petro-Canada.

The protection of our environment is all about honouring inter-relatedness...interdependence...seeing the connections. By voting for Mulroney Ms. May overlooks so much and falls for the old one foot in and one foot out ploy...the intentional con job Mulroney played on the environmental movement all along...a con job I think is becoming more and more embodied in the so-called eco-tourism "industry".

From a great article by Wayne Roberts called "Mulroney's Big Green Con":

"As PM, Mulroney simply applied this Euro-Quebec formula to the challenge of dealing with the rambunctious and militant environmentalists of his day. Thus his Green Plan, his National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy, and the North American acid rain treaty, which placated a mass movement in Ontario supported by Ontario's feisty environment ministry.

Rather than put the boots to environmentalists, Mulroney incorporated them into the process of managing society-wide issues, just as is done in Quebec.

Other accomplishments of the Mulroney era, such as Canada's signing of United Nations greenhouse gas and biodiversity agreements, were gestures of accommodation that generated no substantive change in Canada or elsewhere.

So if you wonder why Mulroney hasn't been bested as a green prime minister, think of the brilliance that earned him those kudos: the ability to entrench anti-environmentalism in unseen structures while making empty gestures to environmentalists."

For the rest of this article:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:7xCRkZeNKmwJ:www.nowtoronto.com/issues/current/news_feature.php+%22mulroney%27s+big+green+con%22+%22wayne+roberts%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

The government listens, that is refreshing!

I usually don't feed bread to dogs but here goes.

Capitalism says

Their are not political accidents my fellow citizen, these bills were meant to keep citizens in the dark and hide information. Information that is critical , I don't understand how you can complain about high taxes etc in previous posts yet not care where your money goes and how its spent. This kind of political loyalty is utter stupidity. If you get F**cked you first have to put yourself in position, why are in position without a
second thought.

Example the Maple Ridge P3 town center project went over budget 12 million, this is money that has to picked up by Maple Ridge taxpayers . If these bills had been in place no one would know the about the screw up and no one would be accountable. Ask yourself what is Gordo trying to hide, (Olympic overruns, Rav overruns, raid on the ledge trial , BC Rail deal , Private power deals etc)

Anyway the people won , good work folks.

Gasworks says

I agree with ubiquitous capitalism - Now there's two words to build a sentence around).

No surprise, No brain no pain or sore loser you pick.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "government listens" or the "people won" without first dealing with the question of ulterior motive.

The way things stand we will always wonder just exactly what was on the Attorney General's mind.

Just looking at the picture of Mike De Jong is it just me or do most of the B.C.Liberals appear to be bald? Pehaps baldness and not having a heart have a correlation somewhere. Just a thought

I'd suggest that anyone who thinks the fact these two pieces of legislation were withdrawn actually indicates any kind of a victory for openness should take a deep breath and think again.

The government knew the opposition wasn't willing to sit still on passage of the changes when the opposition house leader gave notice that they would dig in their heels. The enquiry commissioner said some critical things too and the government whip recognized that to ram the legislation through would mean giving up the plan of proroguing the house on the 18th.

The real test comes in October. Everyone concerned about the potential impact of these pieces of proposed law is still advised to write those letters.

Realist

Hate to throw a monkey wrench in your theory but what about:

Pat Bell
bill bennet
ron cantelon
kevin falcon
stan hagen
gordon hogg
dan jarvis
kevin kreuger
dennis mackay
john les
richard neufeld
john nuraney
john jap

oh...wait a minute. Nevermind.

p.s.-theres a lot of "johns" in this group!!

jesterjogger, great artical All this means we gotta do what we gotta do! [BUT they want almost every river, with almost no real environmental considerations, for private-for-profit, NON-local, power generation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL. -- TYEE EDITOR

Thanks Jester. You might also be interested to know that a major contibutor to the B.C.Liberals fund raisers seems to have been the hair club for neocons. Have a great weekend in granola land

Thanks guys, smoke a dube and likewise have a good weekend (i.e. F U harper)
Re that Bill facilitating 'rape o' the river' private power plants it's called BILL 30.
Incase you missed that it's
BILL 30
BILL 30
BILL 30
BILL 30
BILL 30
BILL 30
BILL 3O

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL - TYEE EDITOR

I'd also like to print a correction from yesterday where I mistakenly noted that tables at said NON-LOBBYING event or "gold" tables as they are reffered to were going for $4000$ dollars.
The actual figure at this gala NON-LOBBYING event is $5000$ dollars. My apologies.
Remember I want to stress that this is strictly a NON-LOBBYING event and that LOBBYING or attempts at LOBBYING or INFLUENCE PEDDLING are strongly undiscouraged!

As for you sh!t disturbers, protesters of all stripes, wacko conspiracy theorists with inverse lee harvey oswald syndrome the address is the hotel vancouver, BC ballroom on May 25.

For those of you wishing to attend who haven't done so well in the new era as the "gold/inner circle-circle jirk" table guests might I suggest the ridiculously charitable "regular" tables at a paltry $2000$ dollars where from an adjacent room you can watch the proceedings on closed circuit television!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But you better act fast because according to the man himself (get it - "the man"!!) 40 "gold" tables have already been snapped up!!

Lastly, and I hate to sound like a broken record, but please remember that LOBBYING and PROTESTING at this event are strongly undiscouraged.

She sounded "quite good" on this one brief CBC profile of her, but gotta tell, while I am interested to hear more from and about her, the bits and pieces of her resume and "policy history" I've been getting over the last 24hrs or so are not impressing me. (Just being an "academic" alone raises my suspicion hackles. No, it doesn't write her off immediately, just raises all my "CAUTION" instincts. :-)

BUT, when my friend Lynn doesn't buy into her, and raises the questions she does, while she never was really on "my list", she has a further way to run to get there, even more so. :-) I put a high regard on that Lynn woman's list.

Still, a Tyee profile is appropriate in my view. If for no other reason than to panic the Carole Jame's/Jack Layton crew. 8-D LOL. Said only a tad tongue in cheek.

Love your style Jesterjogger. We need more of those anarchistic sensibilities right now.:-)

Can I add my name to the list of pessimists, who believe we will see these bills rammed through while the premier is in Ottawa or getting blotto in Hawaii? Shades of the BC Rail contract release...

I think an article about her would be a great idea, Coyote. I'm not writing her off either just that I agree more with your "cautionary" approach..since she voted for Mulroney...and it seems to me at least that Mulroney's National Round Table on the Environment et al is verrry similar to Campbell's Round Table on Education et al...just diversionary dodges to make it appear that something beneficial is actually happening... while the other hand of Royal Sneakyness (is that a word?) is covertly ushering in dangerously regressive policies. Much like what G West is suggesting about keeping our eye on what the other hand of government is doing while we are celebrating this so-called victory of the deferral of the above Bills...she said trying to bring this back on topic. ;-)

But since I've wandered off... what the heck...will wander off even farther...am listening to The Be Good Tanyas (Blue Horse), Coyote...your suggestion from quite some time ago... have their Chinatown CD as well now. They're great. A good week-end to you, Coyote... and to all.

Robinhoody, in partial answer to your question way, way up there somewhere...

FOI requests are easy as pie to do. You simply send a letter to the appropriate government place and ask for a certain piece of information. I usually type ACCESS TO INFORMATION REQUEST (the actual terminology used here) to get their attention.

The frustrating part is... well, there's a few:

1) If you don't ask for the right thing, you'll get the correct wrong thing back.
2) Don't hold your breath thinking you'll get the information tomorrow.
3) There are rules about certain information that will not be released.
4) It can be frustrating finding out exactly which dept. to send a request to.
5) If you request something that will take more than a few minutes time to fulfill and lots of photocopying, you'll likely be looking at a hefty bill.

Well, actually they do call it Freedom of Information... although I've seen it referred to as Access to Information. In any event, you can read up on it at:

http://www.oipcbc.org/sector_public/public_info/index.htm

I couldn't agree more, Lynn. Outside the fact one needs to approach all "would be" career politicians with more than a dollop of caution. It's why I place my hopes and reliance more on building the movement "in the streets", at least at this time, than within the structures of any of the current "parties of capitalism."

Without which, that movement "in the streets", there is not at least the means to hold the feet of the "careerists" to the coals, and enforce the will of the great body of the Joe and Jane Average citizenry.

And as an enjoining aside, I preferred the Blue Horse album myself. You also might want to listen to a James Blunt and his only album, Back To Bedlam. Not a great voice, but excellent poetic style and content. (Kinda like, but not like, the Bob Dylan tradition.) Which is more my wife's taste in music, but which I also enjoy. (I'm more generally, though I like near all music of all parts of the world, a listener to music in the European "classical" or "serious music" style. Pretentious, I know-, a radical with "aristocratic" musical tastes, but then, contradictions are a part of life too. :-)

I have a small speculation to air.

What if the reason these bills were pulled was because the timing changed? The Basi/Virk matter was looming, the bills may have been precisely timed to leave too little time to oppose them before the trial. When that was put forward to December there was suddenly plenty of time to educate the people, circulate petitions, debate in public etc. etc.

If true, the bills will resurface just before the next time exposure of the true details of the dealings or misdealings surrounding the wholesaling of provincial assets to 'contributors' threatens.

If true, the bills must be fought even though they've been deferred. At least a defense must be prepared and held in readiness for that eventuality.

Or else when they are resubmitted we'll be in the same position; not enough time to even begin an effective opposition.

Bailey:
Interesting speculation; while I certainly think that the 'reasoning' behind the bills is something that needs to be considered – I’d say it is in the light more of the upcoming than with respect to what has already passed.

The quantity of evidentiary material in hand (from the Legislature raid) is apparently the problem the prosecutor cited in his meeting with Judge Elizabeth Bennett - on which subject rkewan has posted some interesting things at:
http://houseofinfamy.blogspot.com/

I certainly think we shan't have heard the last of these little pieces of opportunistic and secrecy-enabling legislation though. The Liberals in Victoria, riding the popularity of Carole Taylor and an overflowing exchequer, are in an effervescent mood just now; the Premier is scrambling to try and find a way to capture some of this glory too - else how to explain his speech on Native matters. Slipping in the pieces of legislation right at the end of the session was a risk they were prepared to run, I'd guess.

One hopes the Opposition is now awake and considering ways to recover from the terrible tactic of applauding Campbell so effusively over Harper’s Kelowna surrender.

With the ‘forced’ resignation of Maurice Vellacott from the chair of the Aboriginal Affairs Committee in Ottawa, it hasn’t been a great week for the Prime Minister - at least in the west.

The next provincial crisis with be hospital crowding and bed shortages, in my opinion.

The Opposition leader would do well to learn a lesson from what's gone down this month. She needs to develop the resources and the spine to fight hard on more than a single front. Dealing with a nest of snakes requires much skill...you always have to watch your back.

May I further embellish the meaning by adding the descriptive word "slithering" to the snakes with ulterior motives?

Now if we can just prove a giant conspiracy exists that includes Wally Oppal... "goodbye Gordo

Cause and effect. It's certainly important in all this to determine what's cause and what's effect.

It all certainly seems indicitave of fear of exposure in the future. The repeal of ownership restrictions on media outlets presaged the dismantling of structural democratic protections. Without a diverse free press to fear, crucial checks and balances were easily and quietly removed.

This set the stage for the unfettered privatization of so much public property. Was the one thing done to enable the other? Was it cause and effect?

These bills have a very suggestive atmosphere about them. If it were about protecting proprietary information, why is it timed so carefully to prevent disclosure of evidence in the criminal trial of high government officials? Cause and effect? It certainly seems so. Hard to imagine a set of coincidences so perfectly designed, unless they were designed.

Alcibiades, I think your observation that they're about upcoming events would be conclusive, if it could be established. Obstruction of justice at least.

How could it be established? Anybody have any ideas?

gasworks: All we need is for the Basi & Virk trial to begin. Then, if things go well, the biggest giant conspiracy should be revealed. Hence the need for the secrecy bills. Bailey has figured out the gameplan. Those bills haven't been killed. Like the trials, they are simply postponed.

Although it seems to be a side issue, there's another trial scheduled to begin in Victoria on 29 June, which may preview how the big trial will go.

On 29 June, David Basi will appear in Victoria court with developers Tony Young and Jim Duncan to face four new charges alleging 3 counts of fraud on the government and 1 count of breach of trust.

These charges relate to allegations that Basi received $50,000 to keep property out of an Agricultural Land Reserve for a 650-home subdivision in Sooke.

Right now, what I find difficult is identifying who's in charge, as in, who has the most to lose, with the Harpoon in the PMO while Paul Martin is quietly fading from view. Martin had the close connections to the Basi Boys but Stephen Harper has the most to gain from exploiting any revelations like that.

Judge Bennet did say that the trial of Basi & Virk could come as early as September 1, but would be no later than December 1. Harper strategists are counting on being able to talk up Liberal corruption on a continuing basis, up until they call (and presumably win a majority) in another federal election.

So Harper will really want to see the trial get going in September or October, wiping the Liberal leadership campaign off our screens and filling our thoughts with tales of Liberal sleaze. Paul Martin and Gordon Campbell will really want to see the darn trial delayed forever.

Maybe we could all join hands and turn to Prayer. You think?

Also, while I'm asking for ideas...

If the BC Rail sale is found to have been tainted, the proceeds of crime so to speak, do we get the thing back?

I mean we really got rooked on that deal. If it was crooked the contract would be void, right?

If somebody steals your car and sells it to a fence, who then gets caught with your car in his garage, you get your car back. Don't you?

BC Mary: But wouldn't that entail adding Wally Oppal to the "giant conspiracy" theory, who probably has no idea he is sleeping with a giant slithering ball of snakes so entangled that you can't tell one snake from the other?

Bailey, that would depend on whether or not you had stolen the car in the first place.

Bailey - Here is a link to a well known conspiracy and obstruction of justice expert/theorist by the name of Dempsey who might be of some assistance with the cause and effect argument.

Hope this helps.

http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/Jdb-txt/SC/06/07/2006BCSC0750.htm

BC Mary
You've actually brought to light an interesting dichotomy. The Victoria "Liberals" appear to gain from delay while the Ottawa neo conmen gain more from dispatch. Only if an action is taken in Federal Court could the con men trump the fact that the administration of justice lies solidly in the Provincial jurisdiction. The next clue will come in June when we find out whether or not the other case against Basi is also deferred – I’d think.

In my opinion, the major cockpit for the battle of the federal matters is still the Adscam scandal, and in Quebec and Ontario because that's where the Liberals have the most to lose and the Conservatives the most to gain; our provincial scene remains, I fear, a backwater for the Feds.

My simple analysis only.

I am still curious about gasworks's apparent enthusiasm and affection for an attorney general who was so concerned about preserving and enhancing the prestige of his reputation as a justice of the Supreme Court of BC that he dropped his judicial robes and put on the political mantle so expeditiously the farewell banquet leftovers could still serve as canapés for his rebirth as a minister of the crown. Spare me.

Or perhaps he just wanted something that looked good on his resume.

Are you saying that politics shouldn't invite the best to dinner? What better than having an eminent Supreme Court of Appeal Justice in the job as the Attorney General of the Province of British Columbia? - I suppose you could compare him to a slithering Colin Gableman (somehow).

I would prefer not to prejudge the Judge wouldn't you? It's Gordon Campbell that I no longer trust, my simple answer only....

gasworks
I've seen little evidence that an invitation from Gordon Campbell to dinner, or drinks, for that matter, is any sort of a reward of high or even middling quality. I'd suggest that the rapid dropping of the mantle of disinterested impartiality is an indication of something else entirely.

I’d have you consider the proposition that perhaps the allure that remained on the good ex-judge’s shoulders was the ornament a compromised government sought to display. Either way, I prefer my judges, and ex-judges, for that matter, to retain their impartiality, that’s why they are so highly paid and honoured among the legal fraternity. Politicians are, after all, a dime a dozen; and anyone in this day and age who suggested that Oppal's resume would be enhanced by the move into the political arena would be, in my opinion, damning their hero with faint praise. The Gableman anaolgy is inapt.

If I ever see him do or say anything nominally courageous and independent (again) I'll reconsider my opinion. He still seems, to me at least, fairly accused, like Essau, of selling his birthright for a mess of pottage. As to your last sentence, it is an indication you did once trust Gordon Campbell and that’s a measure of gullibility I’ll never admit to.

I suppose the only thing left then is to overthrow government and have all politicians executed, and immediately thereafter pass a new law decreeing that no "politician" is to be ever be trusted again, and any person attempting to stand for office (along with their supporters) shall be dismembered and fed to the Coyote forthwith. (nominal hero or not).

That ought to work, you think?

I think the correct word to use in the same sentence with the "learned" AG Gableman is inept, is that what you meant to say?

It's a major error to think that the trial of Basi and Virk is only a provincial concern, suggesting that it doesn't really matter much. Why do we do this to ourselves, anyway? The captive media may have shrugged it off that way but surely we know better.

Adscam? Nah. I think the Canadian public has been astonishingly sophisticated in their acceptance of the Gomery Enquiry's findings, which really raised no new issues (nothing like Mulroney and the Airbus caper).

Logically, you might say that Adscam is a provincial Quebec affair. But I think it was not nearly as important as Legigate, if the Basi & Virk trial is handled properly.

The Basi and Virk affair raises issues of how our prime minister and his cabinet got elected, of how public assets can disappear into the hands of foreign buyers, of the possibility that organized crime has infiltrated every aspect of our national governance; and taken all together, this raises the enormous issue of whether or not we're masters of our own domain, coast to coast. National issues of sovereignty. National, not provincial.

The captive media, of course, will try to keep the lid on it I expect; try to laugh it off as "Crazy B.C. Politics" again. That'd be a great pity.

If it weren't so murderously tragic, it would be funny to watch the old Reformers and Conservatives within the B.C. Liberal-in-name-only party as they try to get out of town before that trial begins.

BC Mary
I don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is that the BC Libs appear to 'gain' from delay on the Basi/Virk file, that's all.

The federal Government and/or the federal courts are another matter. In my opinion the Conservatives want to push ahead as quickly as possible in whatever fashion will work quickest and to comprehensively discredit the Federal Liberals and make a stronger case for persuading the voters to return a majority government next election.

The interests of the two parties are diametrically opposed - especially as regards timing. The Harper government wants to discredit the Federal Liberals. The provincial Liberals want to disavow any connection with Basi/Virk and Federal Liberal corruption ort electoral shenanigans. The Provincial situation improves for Campbell the longer court hearings are spun out; the federal situation favours the Harper government the sooner the cases hit the courts and the papers.

This story is just one aspect of the push to keep dragging the Federal Liberals through the Adscam mud:http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/11/sponsorship-suit.html
And this story also gives an indication about what the Conservative stragtegy will be:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1147211412538&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News

Frankly, G, I care enormously about the basic issues underlying the Basi and Virk affair and don't give much of a damn about the Libs and Cons whose political tactics are only amusing in that default zone where old Socreds, new Liberals and empowered Conservatives start to sweat.

I have always wondered, haven't you? what drove the R.C.M.P. to make their historic raid. And what made the R.C.M.P. spokesman, next day, tell us fair and square that organized crime had seeped into all levels of society "in the past 2 years" (i.e., since 2001)?

That was the only time anyone in authority has been straight with the public about that raid. But does that hold true, as the burden is transferred to the Special Prosecutor? What do you think?

Assessing the political mood du jour may inform us of impending tactics, but not of longterm strategy. Frankly, I'm more interested in the part played (if any) by organized crime and in what's left of our public assets and sovereignty.

You can't imagine how passionately I hope that I'm wrong, and that the R.C.M.P. raided our Legislature because of something tolerable like theft or pot or that they got it all backwards and are deeply sorry. But the awkward facts just keep on jumping out of this scenario.

And, with respect and affection, G, I gotta say that I think we make a fatal error by trying to reduce the Basi & Virk affair to the status of a minor sideshow or even an overall political ploy.

If British Columbia lets this opportunity go by -- for Basi or Virk to co-operate with the court by explaining who did what -- then we're compounding the crimes. And the real crooks, both highly placed and low-down crooks, will dance off into the sunset. Again.

What a babbling brook this nowhere nutter is. Yawwwn! Fortunately he is never able to string more than a couple rambling sentences together, that start and go nowhere.

Not even worth commenting further on any more than that.

I don't know that GWest or anyone else actually suggested Mary's complaint above, but my friend is certainly right otherwise.

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL - TYEE EDITOR

Certainly true, assuming the validity of the charges against Basi and Virk, where the two dominant parties are effectively allied, as here in BC, though also likely separately, as in the case of the Martin Liberals-, and which can only flourish and grow within this "privatization" environment, where public assets are basically being "handed off" through Fire Sales and/or Leasehold Agreements of public assets such as BC Rail, BC Ferries, and the to here only partially successful attempt to similarly feed off BC Hydro into the Corporate Welfare Hog Trough.

The likelihood of more such public jewels yet being offered up to the hallowed "private for profit sector" from the heretofore "Public Crown". at bargain basement prices and through "sweetheart deals", allowing for the continuance of this ruling class encouraged neoconservative environment for some time yet, will only further encourage, in my observation experience of it, the parallel continuance and growth of these criminal forces and "tendencies" that are such a part of the system generally anyway. And being elevated even more so to a high art form in this period of dismantling the public assets and social structures built up by postwar Socialized Capitalism.

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL

A criminality that is stirred into displays of new boldness and arrogance, and even encouraged by the preparedness of this rising ruling class system to pander to the newly rising, in our time at least, Corporatism of late capitalism. It being yet another early indicator, assuming one is paying attention, of the drift towards an even more dangerous, business suit and tie model, at least temporarily favoured over jackboots and Roman salutes, corporate sponsored fascism.

There is a theft and more or less socially accepted criminality that works at the heart of the exchange and wealth distribution systems of capitalism in even the best of times and circumstances, always ready to flush into full bloom with any kind of "official", "State", and/or "Ruling Class" encouragement.

And their sneakiness at the acts of their greed are legend.

BC Mary
Again, I agree. I'm only writing what I do because I have also studied these compromised characters and their self-serving history very closely. I think, as do others (I hope) - that it's long past time for the majority of Canadians and British Columbians to wake up to the reality of what our so-called 'democratic servants' are "doing" in this province and in this country with the public trust and public resources.

I'm just much more cynical about what happens once matters have moved into the so-called legal arena than some. [I would suggest that my reasons are valid too]. Moreover, I think Basi and Virk have already been reduced to a sideshow and I'll be very surprised if anything goes ahead on the Sooke/ALR issue until after the main prosecution goes to court. If I'm wrong I'll be very pleased to see some strong light shining on the issue long before (at the earliest) December.

With respect to the role of the police as an independent agent in this matter; once the files move onto desks in the offices of Crown Counsel I'd say they are mostly out of the picture.

As to the chance that Basi and Virk are likely to step up and pull back the curtain to reveal what's actually been happening here, don't hold your breath. These guys are/were 'political' operatives. They know exactly which side of the bread has the butter.

Let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope that the 'justice' system can actually, sometime, deliver some justice.

I wish the Harper government had more to gain from bringing these two to the bar of justice quickly. However, since they see their main chance developing from the political situation in Quebec (where their popularity is now up some 70%) and Ontario (where they know they have to defeat the Liberals in the next election if they are going to get a decent majority). For the Feds, as always, the West is a sideshow.

Amen. Let's hope indeed.

For we can always, once in awhile at least, still be surprised by the presence of "honest" people who do still work, at least within the legal system, such as lawyers, judges and others, and who are prepared to stand up against the pressures such as may be brought to bear on them and do the "justice serving" thing. At least, to the best of their ability.

And it is even possible, which I don't expect but would encourage, that such as Basi and Virk could have a "change of heart" regarding "the people's interest", again assuming they are in fact guilty, of which they have not yet been convicted, and assist the body public in flushing out the full dimensions amd all the layers to this Corporatist criminality.

If you is goin' down anyway fellas, I encourage you to to take as many of the really big fish beneficiaries of this sordid business as you can, down with you. It would be a shame if such low level foot soldiers as yourselves, which I suspect you really are, took the entire hit for these assholes who always seem to get away with it.

It'd be nice, wouldn't it? :-)

Rough justice is justice nonetheless. :-)

Better that than allowing yourselves to go down in history as mere pathetic scapegoats. (Though they may be paying you fairly well, I suppose, to take the full hit for them. That's always possible too, of course.)

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOURS ON THIS SITE. - TYEE EDITOR

: Coyoteposted: 1 Day go"American's" what, sourgasworks?
Now we are never going to get you out. You are completely incomprehensible.What a babbling brook this nowhere nutter is. Yawwwn! Fortunately he is never able to string more than a couple rambling sentences together, that start and go nowhere.

I'm so sorry Coyote, please forgive me. It's just that I have never encountered anyone as unbalanced as you before, and practising on my Boxer hasn't helped.

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL. - TYEE EDITOR

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL. - TYEE EDITOR

"Insider"! Again, only where the sun never shines.

I would prefer to assume that even my enemies are smarter than thee, pathetic neocon wannabe. Otherwise most certainly, they could not have ruled near so long as they have.

Another sacrificial "foot soldier" for the ruling class, perhaps. The incompetent do get by, by pure accident, even the most stringent control systems.

Yet I have more respect even for the average committed foot soldiers of right and left than thee, oh the sulphur smell of the gasworks. (I have never hardly been more myself. :-) They are the real force that wins the day anyway, in any war-, even this class one.

You though... Nahhhh! Not a friggin' chance. Zero IQs don't even get to be we lowly foot soldiers.

Wally Oppal – recent refugee from the Bench - being, as I'm sure anyone who actually knows much about the way justice is effected in the province, entirely irrelevant to the procedures which come under the purview of the Solicitor General, Rich Coleman.
Some "Insider" gasworks!

If you knew anything at all you would know that the Solicitor General is in charge of the police and the Attorney General is in charge of the administration of justice and is the chief legal advisor for the Province of British Columbia.

The point is that the special prosecutor, William Berardino, who made the decision about whether of not charges would be laid - was appointed by the Solicitor General who is responsible for the administration of the criminal justice system in the province.

Wally may be the figurehead for the bureaucracy that writes the laws - Coleman enforces the criminal ones - most of which are in the Federal Criminal Code. I have a copy of it - you might actually want to pick one up.

And, since his name has come up, William Berardino, was once a partner of former Attorney General Geoff Plant at Russell & DuMoulin (now Fasken Martineau DuMoulin). He also defended the former head of BC Hydro John Laxton in an ethics hearing before the Law Society of British Columbia.
THe details are available. Just ask.

Wrong again G.West

Dec. 1, 2003 - B. C. Attorney General Geoff Plant is told by his staff that a case requires the appointment of a special prosecutor and may involve a search of the B.C. legislature.

No thanks to a copy on the criminal code

The fact that Plant gave that information to his staff, who were dealing with the press on the issue, is not germane. The AG and The Solicitor General often sub for each other in such matters – the administration of the Criminal Law is the Solicitor General's bailiwick

By the way, since you're an insider, I wonder if you could explain why it was that the Premier's Chief of Staff Martyn Brown, was responsible for actually hiring the two political assistants, David Basi and Robert Virk, who've made this whole story so very interesting.

Criminal law isn't administered it's enforced.

I'm outa here before the coyote pukes, and I'd advise you to do the same.

Or why it was Solicitor General Rich Coleman, with members of the RCMP, who actually flew to the Kamloops constituency of Speaker Claude Richmond so Richmond could be briefed and give his blessing to the execution of the search warrants in the Legislature? A very unusual occurrence even an insider must admit.

I'd suggest your buddy Wally is very pleased none of this slime has stuck to him.

gasworks: So you've been reduced to quibbling over terminology?
I'd only say it hasn't been enforced very assiduously of late - any other points you'd like to make?

You're leaving?
Awww and just when it was just starting to be fun! Bye Bye!

Sure you don't want that copy of the CCC?

The Criminal Law I mean, of course.

I think it was your mention of Martyn Brown that scared gasworks away, G West. The same Martyn Brown that once ran the Reform Party campaign, then became Campbell's Chief of Staff. The same Reform party that Harper was once a member of before he became, among other things... a Conservative. These days the revolving door of political turncoats has given new meaning to "a rose is a rose is a rose is a rose."

Charlie Smith of The Georgia Straight reported that on June 25, 2001, Gordon Campbell wrote a letter to all his cabinet ministers informing them that Martyn Brown, his chief of staff, would "structure and staff" their offices. He went on to add that cabinet ministers were not to act like the chief executive officers of their ministries as this role would be filled by deputies selected by who else but the premier himself.

Then after the raid:

Media: "Are you satisified with the background checks that were made prior to hiring Mr. Basi?"

Minister Collins:" I didn't...we didn't hire David Basi because of his resume. We hired him because he had worked in the civil service here in British Columbia for over 10 years. We had known him as intern in the legislative internship program which he participated in 1992, I think it was. So we knew David's work and his time in government and that's why he was hired. It wasn't based on a CV or anything like that."

Seems like we are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea...if the Basi- Virk trial is used to help in delivering a majority government win for the Harper Conservatives. And I am definitely not in any way inferring that the trial should not go ahead...only how are the people of this country... those of us who love this land...indeed, how is this country itself going to survive the shoot-out between all these bands of conniving outlaws... who are all now wearing the same black hats?

lynn
Thanks, as always, for your contribution.

Since we also know who was in power during the years that the now-premier and his colleagues were seeing to the progress and education of ‘interns’ Basi and Virk, any mildly-observant spectator would also know that these two were not being hired for their skill in guiding the progress of legislation through the House. And if not that, then what?

We know, by a member of the government’s own admission, that the ‘Party’ was not overwhelmed, as you’ve pointed out, by their curriculum vitae.

Perhaps the 'insider' will scuttle back here and let us know.

Do you think? Black hats indeed.

Okay, I'm going to answer my own question with a quote from anarchist Emma Goldman:

"War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself."

A great, spirited woman, Emma was... she also said this:

"If I can't dance, it's not my revolution."

I highly concur. ;-)

A great and central question, Albeciades. ( Sorry, I didn't see your post when I was writing my last comment).

Is that the sound of some small creature scuttling about in the wings I hear? ;-)

should read Alcibiades, of course...my apologies... a combination of both bad spelling and bad typing on my part. :-(

lynn
no apologies necessary - this is one Greek who doesn't stand on ceremony. About Emma Goldman, of whom I'm also a fan, I'd add just one small bit of Exegesis to her lovely observation about dancing. This is from her autobiography:

I grew furious at the impudent interference of the boy. I told him to mind his own business, I was tired of having the Cause constantly thrown into my face. I did not believe that a Cause which stood for a beautiful ideal, for anarchism, for release and freedom from conventions and prejudice, should demand the denial of life and joy. I insisted that our Cause could not expect me to become a nun and that the movement should not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it. "I want freedom, the right to self-expression, everyboy's right to beautiful, radiant things." Anarchism meant that to me, and I would live it in spite of the whole world--prisons, persecution, everything. Yes, even in spite of the condemnation of my own comrades I would live my beautiful ideal. [Living My Life (New York: Knopf, 1934)

I go to a dance with her anytime. Did you know she spent her 50th birthday, in 1919, in Jail?

lynn-- I don't think we should let the prospect of giving advantage to the Harper Conservatives deter up from pursuing this, however frightening the thought of a Conservative majority might be.

The reason Mr Harper is to be feared is the same as the reason Mr Basi and Mr Virk have to be brought into the light. Something is hidden there.

Since 2001 at least there's been this nasty little undercurrent in Canadian politics. Not just Federal, Provincial as well. Very suggestive things have happened all over the place, and with the mainstream press co-opted it's been damned difficult to get a handle on it.

But let's call a spade what it is for a minute here. There have been serious scandals. Huge financial misappropriations, procedural shenanigans, coverups that are suggestive of a dangerous change in the way things are done in this country.

This is no longer just 'business as usual'.

There were suggestions in the sponsorship investigation that there are now 'bosses' to answer to, to pay off in unmarked bills. There have been suggestions that BC Hydro was somehow involved in the huge Enron scam, and that was even before Campbell himself flew to the states to hire Accenture, so recently disgraced under the name Arthur Andersen Accounting.

Now from the RCMP, an honourable source, we hear the words fraud, money laundering, organized crime.

If even a few of these things have a basis in truth, the chance that they're unconnected is almost nil.

We have hold of the end of a thread here, in the Basi/Virk thing. If we follow it faithfully, it's quite likely to drag a whole lot of things out into view that fear the light.

I never really seriously objected to the 'practical' aspects of Canadian politics. It was always a pretty good way of getting things done, and we built a good country by it.

Now, money just goes away, while important things we thought we were paying for just shrivel up and are gone in the wind.

If there's even a chance we are being attacked by organized criminal interests, that must come to light.

Whatever the dangers of exposing the truth, they must be less than the dangers of failing to expose it.

I agree with you completely, Bailey. I was not trying to suggest in any way on giving up on the Basi and Virk trail of events...I think you put it so well with the words:

I was attempting more to find out if anyone had any good strategies as to how to proceed so that Harper does not benefit...and Canada is lost forever to his majority government...perhaps Emerson is that link....a good stone in which to kill two birds, I don't know...

Alci, thanks so much for the above quote on Emma Goldman. It is such a lovely glimpse of a truly lovely woman. I love her sense of joy and delight...the celebration she finds in life. I have not read her autobiography, only bits and pieces about her life here and there that I have discovered now and then... but I will definitely read it now.... thanks again. :-)

Hmmm. I'm not even sure what was there now that might have had to be edited as "possibly libelous." And I was being so careful too.

Nervous, are we Tyee Editor? Possibly even excessively so? :-)

No kidding. It was gasworks little nonsense about being an insider to which he attached further nonsense about certain MPs and various other activities. I'm sure you remember. Next time I'll have to keep a copy of even the most mundane posts.
Sensitive indeed!

Hmmm. I'm not even sure what was there

That says it all coyote
Bohica!

Alcibiades, I'm glad you noticed it was nonsence ...

Tyee Editor: - for excellent examples of the law of libel go to the SCC site and search Hill vs. Scientology and at the BC Supreme court site, Madam X vs, Mair, (search "Rafe Mair" with the quotation marks)

nonsense, not nonsence[sic]

Why is Tory MP Williams not chairing the C-2 Committee?

[From May 15 edition of Hill Times]

Five-term Conservative MP John Williams, who chaired the high-profile Public Accounts Committee for eight years in previous Parliaments, failed to make the cut to chair any Commons committee now that his party's finally in government because he's "a loose cannon, not a team player," and he failed to conduct the sponsorship hearings in the Public Accounts Committee in 2004 in "the way the Conservative leadership wanted him to do," says a Conservative source.

[Full story is available to subscribers.] Interesting glimpse.

Congratulations to the Tyee for helping get these bad measures stopped but the bigger story is that it was part of a deal between the Liberals and New Democrats in which some other controversial matters are being allowed to pass with minimal debate, including some provisions regarding tenants in Mobile Home Parks and regarding security of information.